Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => Topic started by: Cycling Redemption on 29 December, 2016, 10:29:20 am
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A bit new to structured training and past attempts have left me a bit broken. :facepalm:
It's the end of the year and sign up is in a few days so I'm working on my training strategy, looks good until I get to the step up to 600, thought it would be good to have an SR under my belt before LEL. Timings for a 600 are either too soon or too close to the start not sure if I dare cross the start line at LEL without the experience of 600. Has anyone had the experience of starting a long event without having done a 600 before hand and what was the out come, I'm not supper fit and I'm returning after years of inactivity so supper fit people look away now. ;D
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There will be a bunch of replies listing the people who have ridden LEL (quickly) as their first Audax. I'm not sure that tells you very much, but I do think that "Not riding a 600" should be low on your list of worries. (For one thing, if your 600 goes really well you might learn nothing and get cocky!)
You'll probably learn more from a tough 400 than an "average" 600. If you're really dedicated you could simulate the long events; maybe do a tough/long ride to get to and/or from a 300/400.
The structure of LEL is quite different to a UK600 in many ways - completeing a SR is certainly good experience, but not essential. :thumbsup:
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^ all dat
What a 600 does expose you to that you may not have experienced is the back-to-back days thing. You do not need to ride an event to experience that. You don't need to ride a 600km for it even. The important lessons (in my mind) are more about the understanding of what it's like to get back on a bike the day after a long day.
A couple of good 250km days back to back (or 300/200 for example) will give you some ideas on what it is like to wake up a bit stiff and sore, but then to realise that everything generally comes good again (at some point in the day!).
Matt's suggestion of riding to/from a 300/400 is also a good one.
Back to back days also serve as good lessons in looking after yourself on the road; hygiene and learning what works for you and your stomach for two days on the bounce.
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I mostly agree with what Matt and Marcus said above. If you cannot do a 600, why not do a second 400 before LEL instead?
Like many other riders, I find 400s the toughest distance, as you are tempted to ride it without sleep. In my build-up to PBP, I learned the most from my 400 (which was the relatively easy Strawberry & Asparagus in Essex), where I blew up after 340 km, as I went too fast at the beginning and could not sleep as it was too cold. The biggest benefit from the following 600 was psychological - I learned I could manage the issues that brought me close to the abyss on the 400 in a better way, which gave me a lot of self-confidence for PBP.
It also depends on how experienced you are regarding 200s/300s. If you're a seasoned Audax rider, but have only done "shorter" brevets, I would worry less about the 600 than if you are a relative newbie to the whole thing.
I only started Audaxing in mid-2014. Prior to PBP, my longest ride was the 600 qualifier, and prior to that, it was the 400 qualifier. Doing an RRtY prior to PBP, paired with the qualifying SR series, helped me immensely. During the first year, I had the impression I was learning tons of new things on every ride, like getting more efficient at controls, stopping less often, drinking and eating on the bike, pacing myself, becoming more familiar with spending that long hours in the saddle. Moreover, the RRtY and SR helped me massively to tweak the setup of my bike and my other kit.
But besides the brevets, I started to do at least an hour of fast laps around Regents Park flat out at least once a week in April, about 4 months ahead of PBP. That really helped to improve my fitness and my overall pace.
I'm still on the RRtY treadmill :facepalm: and plan to ride a SR series prior to LEL, combined with the Regents Park speed training.
The additional training effect from a 600 is probably not that big. Shorter, higher-intensity rides - ideally interval training, but I can't really be arsed to do this in a structured way - are probably more efficient in terms of improving your fitness.
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Thanks guys this has been really helpful.
The 600 ride had me a bit stumped but looking at more 300's and 400's in May and June works much better with shorter week day rides with some hills to increase fitness. I like the idea of combining rides or riding to or from an event to give me the feel of a multi day ride, approaching things like this will allow me to taper my rides in July so I'm ready for the off on the 30th. My greatest fear was attempting a 600 and ending up DNF, I thought that might finish me off at a stage where there was no room to come back but you have put that fear to rest.
Thanks again
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What a 600 does expose you to that you may not have experienced is the back-to-back days thing. You do not need to ride an event to experience that. You don't need to ride a 600km for it even. The important lessons (in my mind) are more about the understanding of what it's like to get back on a bike the day after a long day.
A couple of good 250km days back to back (or 300/200 for example) will give you some ideas on what it is like to wake up a bit stiff and sore, but then to realise that everything generally comes good again (at some point in the day!).
Exactly that... we did it in 2013 with only one 200 and one 400 audax ride under our wheels, but we had a couple of weekends where we cycled 500 over two days for the reason that Marcus gave. Starting from London one outing took us to the Travelodge in Acle via Norwich and back via a more direct route, and another one took us to Loughborough Travelodge (spot the theme!) via Boston (so checking out the initial two sections of LEL) and then back via a more lumpy route through Kettering (on a very hot day which proved to be good practice for the real thing as it turned out)
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My plan is to build up for an Easter Arrow (that's 400km in mid April) then slack off a bit
Pick it up in late June with fast(er) rides. I'm thinking of 100km in 3.5 hours. As it's summer might be possible to fit in some of this mid week, maybe take the long route back from work
Then two weeks before LEL do a perm 600. I've done the BCM a few times so I'll probably do that
The week before the LEL I aim to do as little riding as possible
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In 2013 I completed LEL with no experience of 600, my preparation only included one 400, one 300 and several 200. It's been the hardest experience of my life, so far, and I wouldn't suggest to repeat it. After that, I completed several long randonnees, including PBP 2015, far more easily because I had gained experience from LEL and prepared better.
Going back to 2013: there was no 600 at hand, close to my hometown; I was very busy on a new job; I had completed the 400 quite easily not sleeping at all through the night, so I decided to skip the 600 lesson. During the late spring and summer, I went on training on long, single days. It was not enough, as I understood later. Shortly before leaving for the UK (I live in Italy) I grew more and more afraid, as I felt I was underprepared. When it came to packing, I was so scared that I took all my summer and winter clothes, also the gloves I use when temperature falls below 0 Celsius... At the start, I guess I was carrying the heaviest luggage, plus two overstuffed drop bags that the volunteers were so kind to accept even if they were really exaggerated. Everything went fine on the first two days. Problems began shortly after Edinburgh: my ankles started hurting, then Shermer's neck began on the way down from Yad Moss, while hands and feet were growing increasingly numb and tingling, only to mention the main issues. Three days of real pain. After arriving, it took me a couple of days to recover, except for my tingling hands that improved slowly and fully recovered only after more than a month (ulnar nerve, as I came to know later).
I didn't give up only because my mind controlled my body: my wife and daughters were waiting for me at the arrival, I had talked to all my friends and acquaintances about the great adventure and I didn't want to lose face.
If there's no official 600 that fits your schedule, I suggest you to try with something else that keeps you on the saddle for at least two long days, three is better. In continental Europe there are several Super Randonnees, permanent, as described here:
http://www.audax-club-parisien.com/EN/421%20-%20General%20Super%20Randonn%C3%A9e.html (http://www.audax-club-parisien.com/EN/421%20-%20General%20Super%20Randonn%C3%A9e.html)
None of them are in the British Isles, but there's one in Germany, and many in France. I tried one down here in Italy, and am looking forward to using some of them for training this summer.
I fully agree with what previously said by others, that it's not just about training your legs' muscles, every part of your body must adapt to the experience of riding your bicycle continously for so long, and there's much more: you test your equipment, feeding, hygiene, etc. You gradually grow more self-confident, more at ease, and this too can help.
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They've said the good stuff. ^^
I'm not trying to be completely OT, but in terms of 'how far to go' it is worth considering also how broad your training might be. I'm adding core strength to my training in the form of yoga/Pilates. I appreciate this is an add-on to the conventional wisdom of simply riding your bike more, but encourage you to think holistically (if you're not already thinking that way).
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They've said the good stuff. ^^
I'm not trying to be completely OT, but in terms of 'how far to go' it is worth considering also how broad your training might be. I'm adding core strength to my training in the form of yoga/Pilates. I appreciate this is an add-on to the conventional wisdom of simply riding your bike more, but encourage you to think holistically (if you're not already thinking that way).
Totally agree! Over long distance comfort is a performance factor, and core strength is a major contributor to comfort. Pilates and yoga I would see as the 'intervals' of comfort :-)
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Training for LEL... After a grim 200km DIY yesterday I was reflecting on the hidden side of audaxing. The training we do now which hopefully stands us in good stead for July.
"The glamorous side of Randonneuring (http://balancingontwowheels.com/2017/01/the-glamorous-side-of-randonneuring/)"
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Graeme's article reminded me of a film I made about the early training for PBP. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iQYArfcCQg
i qualified for PBP, and rode the first bit to Mortagne, then transferred to a motorbike to film. In previous LELs and PBPs I'd always done an SR, but I'd also done 10 and 25 mile time trials, usually under 27 minutes for a 10. I'd had a detached retina in 2012, which made me less keen on the high heart rate TT stuff. I had a cataract operation shortly before PBP. I could have delayed it, but felt curing my night-time double vision was a good idea.
As I say in the film, long distance randonnees are as much about time as distance. You need to have an awareness of where you want to be at what time, and to be capable of upping the pace to get back on schedule. Just doing rides at a constant pace doesn't equip you for that.
If you are already riding with a club at better than 20mph, then you should have no trouble doing LEL once you harden your contact points with an SR series. I was always too heavy to stick with a fast club group, as it's hilly around here. I found I got the best results from TTs.
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Training for LEL... After a grim 200km DIY yesterday I was reflecting on the hidden side of audaxing. The training we do now which hopefully stands us in good stead for July.
"The glamorous side of Randonneuring (http://balancingontwowheels.com/2017/01/the-glamorous-side-of-randonneuring/)"
Good read Graeme, I especially liked the Owl - I had a similar experience on my Jan 200 with 3 peacocks assaulting the front of a house! - its the things that make the grim days bearable :)
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Thanks Jason.
And...
Graeme's article reminded me of a film I made about the early training for PBP. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iQYArfcCQg
i qualified for PBP, and rode the first bit to Mortagne, then transferred to a motorbike to film. In previous LELs and PBPs I'd always done an SR, but I'd also done 10 and 25 mile time trials, usually under 27 minutes for a 10. I'd had a detached retina in 2012, which made me less keen on the high heart rate TT stuff. I had a cataract operation shortly before PBP. I could have delayed it, but felt curing my night-time double vision was a good idea.
As I say in the film, long distance randonnees are as much about time as distance. You need to have an awareness of where you want to be at what time, and to be capable of upping the pace to get back on schedule. Just doing rides at a constant pace doesn't equip you for that.
If you are already riding with a club at better than 20mph, then you should have no trouble doing LEL once you harden your contact points with an SR series. I was always too heavy to stick with a fast club group, as it's hilly around here. I found I got the best results from TTs.
"I was going to do PBP but I think I'm beginning to see the light now" I wonder if the rest of us are slow learners. :) Nice video Damon - hadn't seen that one before. Great to see you cycling uphill.
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The one thing that the 600km did for me (apart from being beautiful) was give me some confidence. I did the Mr Pickwick goes in search of Dragons and Legends ahead of PBP. I think remains the hardest ride I have ever done. I suspect that I will never forget the sight of a sole rider, toiling up a hill a mile or so ahead of me , thinking "oh god, that's me soon"
I guess I am saying it was mental training probably more than physical.
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really useful thread here, something I've managed before for ultra running, but never ultra cycling. I'm also thinking that the general harder/less fun winter riding is all conditioning for when the weather and light improve and the 200/300s become fun rather than endurance.
One thing for me is also to find the balance between time on the bike and the rest of life when we all have jobs, families etc. In my case a lot of travel away from home midweek, and quite a bit of extra time spent on working towards a promotion, so taking a whole weekend is some serious negotiation. One thing I'm planning on doing therefore is to extend my mid week evening rides (turbo at the moment) from an hour to 2hours, then 3 etc as the light improves.
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[quote author=ElyDave link=topic=100905.msg2122277#msg2122277 date=1484172133
One thing for me is also to find the balance between time on the bike and the rest of life when we all have jobs, families etc. In my case a lot of travel away from home midweek, and quite a bit of extra time spent on working towards a promotion, so taking a whole weekend is some serious negotiation.
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time can really be a bottleneck. what works really nicely for me in summer is what I call "After Work Audax". Ride to work with your Audaxing bike on a Friday. Leave work by 4pm-ish. Go for a brisk 200k ride. Be home by 2am-ish. Have a lie-in on Saturday, and enjoy the rest of the weekend. Earliest month I did this was June
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[quote author=ElyDave link=topic=100905.msg2122277#msg2122277 date=1484172133
One thing for me is also to find the balance between time on the bike and the rest of life when we all have jobs, families etc. In my case a lot of travel away from home midweek, and quite a bit of extra time spent on working towards a promotion, so taking a whole weekend is some serious negotiation.
time can really be a bottleneck. what works really nicely for me in summer is what I call "After Work Audax". Ride to work with your Audaxing bike on a Friday. Leave work by 4pm-ish. Go for a brisk 200k ride. Be home by 2am-ish. Have a lie-in on Saturday, and enjoy the rest of the weekend. Earliest month I did this was June
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That doesn't quite work if work is Aberdeen and Friday is spent geting home though. Easier if I'm working from home and can slope off early in that manner though. I've also thought about getting a bike up to Aberdeen, where I spend a reasonable amount of time, to do a few evening runs, but there's the hassle of finding somewhere to keep it.
Needs some more thought
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My semi-educated guess is that the best preparation could well be a pair (or better a trio?) of back to back 300s.
I'd have said 200s would be nearly as good, but that would assume you already know how well you cope with sustained sleep deficit.
(This is from someone who has never done LEL or PBP. The best I can claim is some SR series, OTOH, I am a very analytical type, and was seriously thinking of doing LEL this time around, but decided against in the end. Treating it as 4x 300k + a 200 was going to be my plan, so I reckoned that if I could do 2 consecutive 300s with minimal sleep in between, I'd have felt confident that I'd get round)
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Last year I did the Celtic Knot which was made up of three loops: 360; 340 and 300 and had not done a 600 beforehand. I only managed a couple of 300's and the 400 Easter Arrow, but also tried to get along to some of the hillier rides (and collect some AAA points). I agree with points above about trying to ride back-to-back (maybe ride to and from an event if time allows) - I did a few of these; also some high impact riding too (riding some club rides helped me as it's full of youngsters who ride fast and push me to my limits - which didn't take too long!). This year plan to add some core because my arms are puny and I noticed how much they hurt after Dale Grimpeur last year so am using a rowing machine to help build them up a bit! Finally am hoping to ride as much of LEL with a group as this was my biggest leaning take away from Celtic Knot (which was a pretty small event). Not necessarily planning to do a 600 this year either (if excluding the 2 back-to-back 600's in LEL!)
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Yebbut rowing is about 70% legs, 20% upper body and only 10% arms
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you already know how well you cope with sustained sleep deficit.
I think this is one of the hardest things to get right - or as a minimum, recognising the difference between being sleep deprived and merely very tired.
In 2013 I rode LEL without having done an SR, though as my longest weekend had been a total of about 580km (a 200 on the Saturday ECEd to about 330, then a 200 on the Sunday which was about 20km from home) I was reasonably confident that I could cope well with riding when tired. Problem was, I simply didn't know how to spot my own sleep deprivation, nor realise how much it slowed me down, so I was too tempted to push on rather than recognising that even fifteen minutes shut-eye would pay enormous dividends.
That contributed substantially to me getting round the route, but about four hours out of time (starting two hours after my slot because I'd got to sleep far too late the night before the start, and the confidence of inexperience leading to me pissing about for far too long at controls - I think I spent about ten hours at Brampton on the way north - didn't help either).
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Yebbut rowing is about 70% legs, 20% upper body and only 10% arms
Unless you use too much arms like me.
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Lifting weights makes me better at rowing, rowing doesn't make me better at lifting weights.
Skip the rowing machine, head for the bar. (No, not that one!)
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rowing is good for the core and, if at a low stroke rate also benefits the leg strength-endurance stuff. Similar to the bike, long, steady, controlled HR sessions are good for the base of the training pyramid perhaps to get over the monotony of continual bike sessions, or just for a change.
Definitely agree though, lift heavy stuff for upper body strength, even bodyweight exercises.
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I was looking at some of the early LEL films I made. One was a training montage. One for fans of 'Team America. World Police', an idea which has come around again.
https://vimeo.com/1280007
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Lot's of good advice from more experienced riders than me, but don't mistake quantity for quality of training. PBP 15 was my first ride over 600 and I did few kms on the road beyond the qualifiers because of life, family etc. What did help (I finished within time anyway and wasn't a complete wreck apart from a dodgy knee) was structured training on the turbo. Not everyone's cup of tea but I found the trainer road programme really good, coupled with the 7 minute workout app on my phone for core and flexibility. I'm not sure I'll get a 600 in before LEL either but agree with comments that the 400 was the real psychological and physical breakthrough.
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I've heard it said that heavy squatting will increase overall muscle mass even in muscles not involved in squatting due to anabolic effects of the lifting.
Not sure I believe it but it's an interesting idea.
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Lot's of good advice from more experienced riders than me, but don't mistake quantity for quality of training. PBP 15 was my first ride over 600 and I did few kms on the road beyond the qualifiers because of life, family etc. What did help (I finished within time anyway and wasn't a complete wreck apart from a dodgy knee) was structured training on the turbo. Not everyone's cup of tea but I found the trainer road programme really good, coupled with the 7 minute workout app on my phone for core and flexibility. I'm not sure I'll get a 600 in before LEL either but agree with comments that the 400 was the real psychological and physical breakthrough.
Which plans did you follow on TR ?
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I'll be going up to a 600 but would agree that if you can get through a 400 (or even a 300) you will probably know what to expect from yourself on a longer ride. As they say most of it is in the mind. I did follow the advice in 2015 for PBP of 'just getting the miles in' and that seemed to serve me well so I am probably going to follow a similar routine.
A couple of things I am doing differently this year are,
I am working on some upper body and core (going back to my days of Rugby training) to try and get that sorted out. I had very tired arms at the end of the Flatlands last year, that was on fixed though.
To build up on my base speed I will look to join my local club runs on their faster Sunday rides (expecting to get dropped a few times but will hopefully see progress) and I am also going to do the Track Accreditation at Lee Valley and do some of the Power Fitness sessions they offer. While the ultimate goal of the base speed is not to ride the event faster I believe the fitness that comes from increasing my base speed helps me to recover after bigger efforts (Sharp climbs and the like).
Really though, I just want to drop a few pounds and feel a bit more spritely than I do now, the fitter I am the more I will enjoy the event.
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Lot's of good advice from more experienced riders than me, but don't mistake quantity for quality of training. PBP 15 was my first ride over 600 and I did few kms on the road beyond the qualifiers because of life, family etc. What did help (I finished within time anyway and wasn't a complete wreck apart from a dodgy knee) was structured training on the turbo. Not everyone's cup of tea but I found the trainer road programme really good, coupled with the 7 minute workout app on my phone for core and flexibility. I'm not sure I'll get a 600 in before LEL either but agree with comments that the 400 was the real psychological and physical breakthrough.
Which plans did you follow on TR ?
Sweet-Spot Base Low Volume I and II and some of the Sustained Power Build Low Volume I (that's what the plans are called now, I think they were a bit different a couple of years ago). About four months worth of plans, but it took me 6 months to do them. Works out at about 3.5 to 4.5 hours a week. Doing the FTP test was a useful benchmark and measure of progress. Back to doing Sweet-Spot Base I now.
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I only started using TR in May 2015 so was not able to go through a full base/build/speciality cycle. I basically did sustained power build plus riding Audax.
I got my FTP up to around 250W by PBP, and did by far my fastest time. I'm currently in Sweet Spot Base II, high volume, and my FTP is marginally higher than at PBP.
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Lot's of good advice from more experienced riders than me, but don't mistake quantity for quality of training. PBP 15 was my first ride over 600 and I did few kms on the road beyond the qualifiers because of life, family etc. What did help (I finished within time anyway and wasn't a complete wreck apart from a dodgy knee) was structured training on the turbo. Not everyone's cup of tea but I found the trainer road programme really good, coupled with the 7 minute workout app on my phone for core and flexibility. I'm not sure I'll get a 600 in before LEL either but agree with comments that the 400 was the real psychological and physical breakthrough.
Which plans did you follow on TR ?
Sweet-Spot Base Low Volume I and II and some of the Sustained Power Build Low Volume I (that's what the plans are called now, I think they were a bit different a couple of years ago). About four months worth of plans, but it took me 6 months to do them. Works out at about 3.5 to 4.5 hours a week. Doing the FTP test was a useful benchmark and measure of progress. Back to doing Sweet-Spot Base I now.
I've dipped in and out of TR over the last 2 years, I started Base SS mid-vol 1 just before Xmas, but the festive 500 and a couple of 200's got in the way (double rrty on the go)... I am planning on picking it back up where I left off today, I did toy with a new FTP test, but they are the worst bit of the whole lot (and one of the things which always trips my up when I think - I'll start off on TR!). I do tend to skip the weekend long rides on the turbo in favour for outside...
I think I'll be skipping a 600 unless I convince myself otherwise, I've got at least 3 400's and a few 300s plus the rrty on the go. All that with some turbo until I get fed up with it I am hoping will see me through... I'll probably bolt on some faster shorter rides when the weather improves...
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I do tend to skip the weekend long rides on the turbo in favour for outside...
So do the people who wrote TR. Chad Timmerman, who designs the plans, reckons his limit is about 2 hours.
When you can't ride outdoors at all due to winter conditions, what do you do?
One option - break it up a little, e.g. rather than riding 3h of Maclure on Sunday, ride 1.5h (Townsend), then try to squeeze in a couple of extra 45m rides (e.g. Carter) in the remainder of the week.
It's allegedly not as effective for aerobic base fitness as 1x 3h ride. But it is better than not doing it at all.
Longest I've ever completed is 2h30 (Kennedy Peak).
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Hi everybody, I was a mile-eater in my youth but gave up cycling for about 35 years, got back into it since 2009, and have enjoyed a few Audax 200’s. Last few years I have been doing a bit of racing- LVRC, local TT series, club riding and club organising. I have trained well this winter. Decided I wanted a big year 2017 and catch up with all the lost time so I’m in LEL – I will be 65. So what’s the best plan for my build up and to fit in some 300/400/600 rides to see if I can do ride that long and learn to how to pace them? My idea is to continue mixed race and endurance training with some race targets starting in March and in between races every 2 or 3 weeks from end of March do a DIY 200 and 300 from home recce-ing near sections of LEL (Cambs & Lincs). If I’m going well in the first races I might enter a LVRC stage race and then 2 and 4 weeks later do a 50 and then a 100m TT. Two weeks later I have penciled the Knock Ventoux 300 and the following week the 3 Coasts 600 (17 June) and another 2 weeks later the East Saxons 400 (Dunmow). This starts 11am so maybe I could ride this from 2-3am start and make it a 550? (perhaps add a bit on the other end too?) Instead of the 3 Coasts I have looked at the Border Raid 600, 15 June so only 2 weeks before LEL – is that too late? These Audax fit my plan and races and sound interesting and I wanted to do fairly well supported 400/600s not x rated and also get to ride with a few experienced randonneurs? Alternatively I have thought about a DIY 400 on a Yorkshire section LEL.
Looking through the calendar has made me realise there are some fabulous rides to target next year and after, if all goes well and perhaps drop this racing lark.
Sorry for the long post.
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I have never ridden with a road club but still got round PBP well within the time limit (twice).
In 2015,I did the bare minimum due to work and life issues.
I would suggest at least an SR series, with another 400 or 600k ride near the event and aim to log at least 5000 miles before the start.
Building up through the SR distances with roughly 2weeks between them allows time for the body to recover and adapt.
I can't get my head round FTP etc etc so will leave that to those of you who do.
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I do tend to skip the weekend long rides on the turbo in favour for outside...
So do the people who wrote TR. Chad Timmerman, who designs the plans, reckons his limit is about 2 hours.
When you can't ride outdoors at all due to winter conditions, what do you do?
One option - break it up a little, e.g. rather than riding 3h of Maclure on Sunday, ride 1.5h (Townsend), then try to squeeze in a couple of extra 45m rides (e.g. Carter) in the remainder of the week.
It's allegedly not as effective for aerobic base fitness as 1x 3h ride. But it is better than not doing it at all.
Longest I've ever completed is 2h30 (Kennedy Peak).
Longest I did was Maclure back in April last year, 3hours for 125 TSS :facepalm:
Anyway, I decided last night to restart a TR plan rather than pick up where I was before Xmas given my FTP might be somewhere different now so rather than waste 4-5 weeks training against the wrong FTP, it's FTP test today.... :sick:
I might kick off a new thread rather than derail this one, but I've put 3 TR plans and my planned Audax's in to a spreadsheet and looked at the total TSS and PPMC in the lead up to LEL, I've moved the TR plans around to accommodate the Audax's.
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I have never ridden with a road club but still got round PBP well within the time limit (twice).
In 2015,I did the bare minimum due to work and life issues.
I would suggest at least an SR series, with another 400 or 600k ride near the event and aim to log at least 5000 miles before the start.
Building up through the SR distances with roughly 2weeks between them allows time for the body to recover and adapt.
I can't get my head round FTP etc etc so will leave that to those of you who do.
Lines up very much with my approach to PBP in 2007 when I was 65 and 2011 .. 69 .. .... 2015 .. did less and failed
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I hate the FTP tests, was up at about 220 prior to PBP and now I'm err... a lot less. Longest I've done was 2.5 hours. I had notions of watching DVDs etc. while I do it but I find I really have to concentrate to keep on the cadence/power target. With some music on the time passes okay.
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Zwift on turbo is probably best for endurance training. I find it the most realistic and engaging. I did 3 hours on Saturday on the London classified course for my 300 and then a total of 3.5 hours yesterday on the pretzel course which simulates 2 climbs to 500+metres with gradients of 5-8% and a sustained ramp of 10-15% at the end.
I am a wuss when it comes to any risk of ice and have not got around to putting the winter tyres on so turbo with Zwift gives me my endurance sessions at the moment.
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I'm intending to re-test this evening.
Re the concentration thing. I think a smart trainer running in Erg mode helps with that, a lot. So you are doing some long workout. If you are in Erg mode you just let the trainer sort it out. Cadence does need checking but I find my self-selected cadence is around 100rpm anyway, unless it's a workout targeting specific drills, I don't need to think about it. I tend to watch stuff that doesn't require full attention to follow the story line.
For a hard workout, more attention is needed. So for shorter, more intense stuff, I'll have music on, or maybe the TR podcast.
Another point - the issue of these long workouts came up in the podcast a week or two ago. From the data TR have, most people don't do them on the turbo. There is one, Ptarmigan, which is 5h, and apparently one person has done this one, which takes some doing, no way I could do it (nor Chad). TR are working on adding the ability to upload outdoor rides which will help with tracking within their system. But also, they are looking at modifying plans such as sweet spot base to have alternative sweet spot workouts which you can switch in instead of the long Sunday workouts. As of now, with the plan tracking, it's entirely possible to pick a workout with similar TSS and ride that, then assign it in the plan.
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Hi everybody, I was a mile-eater in my youth but gave up cycling for about 35 years, got back into it since 2009, and have enjoyed a few Audax 200’s. Last few years I have been doing a bit of racing- LVRC, local TT series, club riding and club organising. I have trained well this winter. Decided I wanted a big year 2017 and catch up with all the lost time so I’m in LEL – I will be 65. So what’s the best plan for my build up and to fit in some 300/400/600 rides to see if I can do ride that long and learn to how to pace them? My idea is to continue mixed race and endurance training with some race targets starting in March and in between races every 2 or 3 weeks from end of March do a DIY 200 and 300 from home recce-ing near sections of LEL (Cambs & Lincs). If I’m going well in the first races I might enter a LVRC stage race and then 2 and 4 weeks later do a 50 and then a 100m TT. Two weeks later I have penciled the Knock Ventoux 300 and the following week the 3 Coasts 600 (17 June) and another 2 weeks later the East Saxons 400 (Dunmow). This starts 11am so maybe I could ride this from 2-3am start and make it a 550? (perhaps add a bit on the other end too?) Instead of the 3 Coasts I have looked at the Border Raid 600, 15 June so only 2 weeks before LEL – is that too late? These Audax fit my plan and races and sound interesting and I wanted to do fairly well supported 400/600s not x rated and also get to ride with a few experienced randonneurs? Alternatively I have thought about a DIY 400 on a Yorkshire section LEL.
Looking through the calendar has made me realise there are some fabulous rides to target next year and after, if all goes well and perhaps drop this racing lark.
Sorry for the long post.
I'm no expert on the dreaded 'T' word, but ...I think mixing it up with long audax rides, plus racing [real or simulated] for your speed is a good-ish plan for LEL. I'd also suggest riding as much as possible, even the TTs, on your audax machine.
Getting comfort issues sorted and working out how to cope with the low points that inevitably come on the silly distances is the key to 'enjoying' LEL. As the organiser of the 'Saxons' 400, I know others successfully extended it beyond that distance last year...at least one to 600. The start time and sleep opportunity 14-18 hours in make it possible.
That said, I got round ok one LEL on nothing longer that a 300 as preparation...when young and foolish!
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I'm no expert on the dreaded 'T' word, but ...I think mixing it up with long audax rides, plus racing [real or simulated] for your speed is a good-ish plan for LEL. I'd also suggest riding as much as possible, even the TTs, on your audax machine.
Getting comfort issues sorted and working out how to cope with the low points that inevitably come on the silly distances is the key to 'enjoying' LEL. As the organiser of the 'Saxons' 400, I know others successfully extended it beyond that distance last year...at least one to 600. The start time and sleep opportunity 14-18 hours in make it possible.
That said, I got round ok one LEL on nothing longer that a 300 as preparation...when young and foolish!
Thanks Tomsk
Yes I thought your event could be my last big distance before LEL extended to experience 600km with plenty of time to tweak stuff and be fresh for LEL (about 150km from home I think). Still trying to finalise my plans so I can just get on with it and everything else I am doing. So my final ideas for the last few big rides are: 10/6 Knock Ventoux 300, 24/6 Nat 400 (as this looks very nice if I can get in it?) 1/7 Saxons 400/600 (only 5 days later but maybe good for building up to LEL) or/and 15/7 Border Raid 600 (a bit close before LEL to learn and recover from?). Weekend of 8/7 not available for me.
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... and another 2 weeks later the East Saxons 400 (Dunmow). This starts 11am so maybe I could ride this from 2-3am start and make it a 550? (perhaps add a bit on the other end too?) ...
As the organiser of the 'Saxons' 400, I know others successfully extended it beyond that distance last year...at least one to 600. The start time and sleep opportunity 14-18 hours in make it possible.
Yes, there were two of us — Jiber Jaber and myself — who both extended Saxons to 600.
For comparison, I left home for the Saxons start at about 7:15am, rode 85km to the start. Then rode the 400 in about 22 hours and had several hours' sleep at the end in a pub chair. I then rode another 130km for the 600 (400 + 200 ECE) at a slow-but-steady pace, with a couple of decent stops on the way — including one for a sleep in the sun. Total 628km in just under 37 hours — over five hours inside the allowed time for a BR-pace ECE, three hours inside BRM pace — and TWELVE hours inside LEL's 12.3kph pace! Jiber structured his ECEs differently IIRC.
I'm planning on riding it as a 500 this year ;)
PS. I don't know what my FTP is. I think it's SFTP anyway ... sometimes FTPS ... or something :facepalm:
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PS. I don't know what my FTP is. I think it's SFTP anyway ... sometimes FTPS ... or something :facepalm:
Just for you it could of course be SSH IT
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Im currently training for Baldock Beast half marathon(run). I hope to better 1:40.I completed several 200km ,a 300km and a400 km audax in 2015,(T
omsks rides). 2016 was almost year off the bike. at the moment i can cover 100 km at 15 mph, but contact points painful due to lack of practise. From beginning of March i shall stop running and cycle only. As my aerobic system is decent and i have good core strength will i make the transition to cycling 1400km . I can train 5 days a week including back to back weekends. Any advice warmly welcome. Thanks. Andy
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From beginning of March i shall stop running and cycle only.
I'd keep doing some running, just to keep it ticking over, at least an hour a week, 2h (split over several runs) if you can spare the time (sounds like you can with that much free time). Cycling is no substitute for running, and it's quite annoying going back to running only to find that that fitness has gone.
I'd also add some cycling in to the current schedule (despite the focus being on the HM). If you can rule out bad position/setup/equipment then contact point pain is just about time in the saddle, and the earlier you get started on that the better.
tl;dr something like 80% running, 20% cycling before the HM and then adjust the other way once the HM is done.
[EDIT] It does depend on your current training load and available hours though. A 2h ride introduces a lot less fatigue to the legs than a 2h run. Last year I tried to stick to a rule of max 4h running per week, max 2h swimming per week and minimum 6h cycling. It took a fair while to build up to being able to get close to these limits.
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... and another 2 weeks later the East Saxons 400 (Dunmow). This starts 11am so maybe I could ride this from 2-3am start and make it a 550? (perhaps add a bit on the other end too?) ...
As the organiser of the 'Saxons' 400, I know others successfully extended it beyond that distance last year...at least one to 600. The start time and sleep opportunity 14-18 hours in make it possible.
Yes, there were two of us — Jiber Jaber and myself — who both extended Saxons to 600.
For comparison, I left home for the Saxons start at about 7:15am, rode 85km to the start. Then rode the 400 in about 22 hours and had several hours' sleep at the end in a pub chair. I then rode another 130km for the 600 (400 + 200 ECE) at a slow-but-steady pace, with a couple of decent stops on the way — including one for a sleep in the sun. Total 628km in just under 37 hours — over five hours inside the allowed time for a BR-pace ECE, three hours inside BRM pace — and TWELVE hours inside LEL's 12.3kph pace! Jiber structured his ECEs differently IIRC.
I'm planning on riding it as a 500 this year ;)
PS. I don't know what my FTP is. I think it's SFTP anyway ... sometimes FTPS ... or something :facepalm:
https://www.strava.com/activities/629703646
I averaged 21kph over 613km in 39h37m (29h14m moving). That included 1 hour of sleep in the middle. The laps on the ride represent inbetween control details (speed/dist/time)
My speed tailed off in the final 6 hours, the last 30km was at 15kph, but I did stop to help a damsel in distress fix her bike and then escorted her home as she had no lights... I'm pretty sure that wasn't an hallucination! LOL
I am not planning on a 600 heading in to LEL. I am on a double RRtY and 4x 400's plus 2-3x 300's so I am hoping that will be enough along with some structured turbo and none-structured outside (to the pub) riding......
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https://www.strava.com/activities/629703646
I averaged 21kph over 613km in 39h37m (29h14m moving). That included 1 hour of sleep in the middle. The laps on the ride represent inbetween control details (speed/dist/time)
My speed tailed off in the final 6 hours, the last 30km was at 15kph, but I did stop to help a damsel in distress fix her bike and then escorted her home as she had no lights... I'm pretty sure that wasn't an hallucination! LOL
I am not planning on a 600 heading in to LEL. I am on a double RRtY and 4x 400's plus 2-3x 300's so I am hoping that will be enough along with some structured turbo and none-structured outside (to the pub) riding......
Thanks for all the info and strava report. That looks like you will be doing plenty; I may have to revise my plans and I expect I may be a bit slower than you. When will you do your last big ride or multi day ride before LEL? I guess you might want to reduce the durations a couple of weeks before?
Regards
Peter
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I've still to finesse the last month or so to try and balance out the overloads a bit but I have the week before doing very little..
I still need to do some thinking about how long to rest after a 400 for example, but I am hoping that this time I am more used to the stress from a higher weekly exposure which might mean I can bounce back quicker, I'm doing this mostly by looking back at what happened last year (one of the reasons why I tried to ride every audax with a power meter attached) and trying to align that with what I have planned....
I might add a couple of short rides to keep the legs moving. Of course, like all plans, this might not survive contact with the enemy!
Example of activities planned (probably what you are most interested in):
(https://2-t.imgbox.com/8bfda1DO.jpg) (http://imgbox.com/8bfda1DO)
Impact if activities followed:
(https://4-t.imgbox.com/O19LYuNp.jpg) (http://imgbox.com/O19LYuNp)
ATL = Fatigue
CTL = Fitness
TSB = Form
TSS = Stress
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I take it that you don't have a wife or kids then?
I admire your attention to detail and am sure it focusses your attention , but I find real life gets in the way.
If I tried sticking to a rigid plan, then it would end up being more stressful and I ride a bike for fun.
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I take it that you don't have a wife or kids then?
I've found ditching the kids and taking up with someone else's partner much better for training.
YM1MV
1: Marriage
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If you can maintain ~1000TSS a week then you shouldn't have any fitness concerns for LEL, that's for sure.
I can just about do that in a week without intruding into family time, but I only work 4 days a week so one day (during term time) I get 6 hours to myself whilst my daughter is at school. I can do about 5h exercise in that time, so a good chance to get 350TSS in in one hit (well, a 1h15m swim and then a 4h cycle, or shorter cycle and a run), the rest is spread out over the week (5-a-side, cycle commuting, running, lunchtime swim, etc).
Doing 1000TSS/week week in week out I've never managed, something always gives (injury [usually from 5-a-side], school holidays, etc). I think my CTL peaked at about 80. I haven't tried to work it out for my 50 point season, mostly because I didn't have a power meter then.
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I take it that you don't have a wife or kids then?
I admire your attention to detail and am sure it focusses your attention , but I find real life gets in the way.
If I tried sticking to a rigid plan, then it would end up being more stressful and I ride a bike for fun.
I have the freedom to ride a LOT if I choose, but I do know that many friends with families (and/or other commitments) find they get a lot more done if they plan meticulously.
(Perhaps part of that is
"Of course I can't pick them up tonight - look at my schedule!!! " :P
Is a TSS a unit that's independent of current fitness and natural ability? An answer in single syllables would be appreciated!
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I take it that you don't have a wife or kids then?
I've found ditching the kids and taking up with someone else's partner much better for training.
YM1MV
1: Marriage
I have enough on my plate finding the time to "train" for "that ride" without that sort of aggro as well.
Changing jobs is traumatic enough for me.
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I have enough on my plate finding the time to "train" for "that ride" without that sort of aggro as well.
Changing jobs is traumatic enough for me.
I think she also did that changing jobs thing along with relocating up North!
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Is a TSS a unit that's independent of current fitness and natural ability? An answer in single syllables would be appreciated!
100 TSS is an hour riding at your FTP. You can't get more than 100 TSS in an hour (if you do your FTP is incorrect as that should be the maximum that you can put out in one hour).
The longer the ride the lower the TSS per hour (for the same reason you can't do a 5k run at the same speed you could do a 400m, etc).
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/what-is-tss
[EDIT] And yes it is independent of current fitness and natural ability as it is measured against your current FTP (if you don't know that, and don't have a power meter then it won't be accurate).
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I take it that you don't have a wife or kids then?
I admire your attention to detail and am sure it focusses your attention , but I find real life gets in the way.
If I tried sticking to a rigid plan, then it would end up being more stressful and I ride a bike for fun.
I have the freedom to ride a LOT if I choose, but I do know that many friends with families (and/or other commitments) find they get a lot more done if they plan meticulously.
(Perhaps part of that is
"Of course I can't pick them up tonight - look at my schedule!!! " :P
Is a TSS a unit that's independent of current fitness and natural ability? An answer in single syllables would be appreciated!
This year we have purchased a wall chart. Should have done it years ago.
There's a very good piece in Faster by Michael Hutchinson where he describes several athletes who persuaded their long suffering partners to financially support them for a year as they went full time. A large percentage, he says, went slower. Looks like full time employment can be a blessing in disguise.
Can't help with TSS/CTL I'm afraid. There's probably an explanation in a book I bought some time ago but didn't get past the first couple of chapters.
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Is a TSS a unit that's independent of current fitness and natural ability? An answer in single syllables would be appreciated!
100 TSS is an hour riding at your FTP. You can't get more than 100 TSS in an hour (if you do your FTP is incorrect as that should be the maximum that you can put out in one hour).
The longer the ride the lower the TSS per hour (for the same reason you can't do a 5k run at the same speed you could do a 400m, etc).
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/what-is-tss
[EDIT] And yes it is independent of current fitness and natural ability as it is measured against your current FTP (if you don't know that, and don't have a power meter then it won't be accurate).
Perfect :thumbsup:
[It is slighty interesting that you get no extra points for riding 100% - i.e. at an effort you can only maintain for a minute, above FTP.
If I understand it right, an hour spent alternating between 100% efforts and equal rests, gets you the same points as 30mins at FTP. With very different training effect. But of course it can only every be a rough measure. Only slightly interesting ... ]
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If I understand it right, an hour spent alternating between 100% efforts and equal rests, gets you the same points as 30mins at FTP. With very different training effect. But of course it can only every be a rough measure. Only slightly interesting ... ]
It's not measuring training effect, it's a measure of training stress on the body. Whilst the two different workouts might feel completely different during, and shortly after, the workout; over time the difference becomes less relevant.
Training load (CTL = Chronic TL) is measured over the last 42 days and fatigue (ATL = Acute TL) over the last 7 days (both with exponential decay - simply put, every day you start by taking 41/42ths of yesterdays CTL and add on the TSS score(s) for the day. For ATL you take 6/7ths of yesterday's ATL and add on today's TSS scores). The difference between the two (CTL-ATL) is your form or fitness (+ve is good, -ve is bad) - usually done using the previous day's CTL and ATL scores.