Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Camping It Up => Topic started by: IJL on 09 May, 2017, 12:56:23 pm
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I'm thinking of getting one of these for a bit of lightweight camping on the bike, I believe the youngsters call it bike packing. Has anyone used one ? are they reasonably stable? I know there a lots of gas stoves around that would do the job but my inner Luddite likes Trangia's and the mini can be found at a good price. Its only going to be for brews and heating a can of breakfast
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I had a Trangia a long time ago and thought it was a pain. I've got a small MSR with a gas canister which is quick, clean, easy, and packs down small.
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If you like Trangias then you'll love the mini.
Clearly it can never be as stable as a full size 27 or 25 but find a flat surface or a brick or stone and you'll be just fine.
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It's perfect for the use you describe. Used one just in the same way myself.
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Isn't the triangle better than the mini:
has more of a windshield/gathering design like the 27/25?
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.... Its only going to be for brews and heating a can of breakfast
Breakfast comes in a can?? Oh Tennants? ;o)
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If you like Trangias then you'll love the mini.
Dispute that. The main advantage of the proper Trangia over pretty much everything else is that the outer enclosure makes it stable (one-handed stirring is possible without losing your dinner) and spectacularly windproof with no need to muck about with windshields. Works well with either meths or gas burners.
With the Trangia Mini you've got a well-made lightweight meths-burning stove with all the usual disadvantages of small stoves. Whether you like it comes down to how much you prefer an alcohol burner compared to one of the many small gas stoves. Personally, as someone who uses stoves almost exclusively for cooking food (I don't do tea or coffee), I like meths for cycle touring because you have a much better idea of how much fuel you've got without the bulk of carrying a second cartridge as you have to with gas.
Caffeine fiends make much fuss about various stoves' speed of boiling water (gas or pressurised liquid fuel being much faster). I say you're camping and what's the problem with waiting a couple of minutes. For simmering food, the difference is irrelevant. Meths burners are silent, which is something that anyone who's been awakened by a fellow camper's XGK rocket engine will appreciate.
I like the Trangia for normal touring but if I was going super lightweight (eg. for a brew up on an overnight ride) I'd use a MyTiMug with a screw-on cartridge top gas burner and a known-good cartridge.
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The Mini needs a windshield, IME. The frying pan lid is a nice touch but the whole thing is rather bulky, inefficient and messy. I'd much rather have a small gas stove and 100g cartridge in a large ti mug for quick brews and simple rehydrated food.
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I've only ever used a trangia knock-off or a home-made meths burner.
Either go full-size or make your own, I reckon. I made my own from a deoderant can, took maybe 10 minutes and it weighs about 13gms. Add a windshield and you are cooking.
Have mislaid that so will have to make another, fortunately have found the makings in the garage, might do that this weekend.
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The Mini needs a windshield, IME.
+1
All meths stoves need a reasonably efficient windshield, as you can't just turn up the flame when it gets breezy.
If it does, and you don't have a decent windshield, you could end up waiting forever for a boil (i.e. until the fuel in the burner runs out).
Stoves than come with a good windshield are a full-size Trangia, a Caldera Cone, or a clikstand (http://www.clikstand.com/) (of which the Triangle is a rip-off). Everything else, you've got to bodge the windshield yourself, and strike the right balance between letting air in to keep the flame going and letting heat out too fast.
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I have one but only used it once before moving on to a full size Trangia with both meths and gas options. At the moment a small gas stove can be had for £6 or thereabouts e.g.
https://www.springfield-camping.co.uk/mercury-backpack-stove
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I got a mini Trangia clone for £10 years ago. First trip out with it was a real pain. It was an unusually mild February and we were doing part of the west highland way. It needs a windshield or it loses all it's heat. Really quite poor.
As an aside, on that trip by pure chance my mate took his real mini Trangia with him. He's a veteran Trangia user. We compared our mini Trangia stoves and the cheap clone was better made. It was more solid, better made and a fraction of the cost. My mate was annoyed by that and I don't think he uses it anymore. Mine is in few cupboard split up as I have used the pot on its own with a foil lid, windshield and a variety of other stoves. It's never been used intact since.
Look at caldera cone made for a pot you already own. It's a very good meths stove.
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The Mini needs a windshield, IME. The frying pan lid is a nice touch but the whole thing is rather bulky, inefficient and messy. I'd much rather have a small gas stove and 100g cartridge in a large ti mug for quick brews and simple rehydrated food.
My bold
Agreed. After considerable use of many stoves in many environments, I have to agree, even if it does mean having the cartridge in the sleeping bag for very cold conditions! Cheap and very light wind shield is some aluminium foil doubled-up and wrapped around pot. Favourite stove is the wide legged low profile alpine stove that is very stable. Most scary stove is of course a good old MSR!
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I have a Trangia Mini, It heats water, cooks beans and fries bacon.
When you get fed up of the random control of the flame size, you'll find that a Vango* gas stove will fit inside the pots.
* Other stoves are available.
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It'll do those things but it's a seriously flawed design IMHO so other solutions are a lot better. Waste of money even for a cheapo rip off!
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I use a Stanley adventure cookset and a homemade hopcan stove that doesn't need a pot support. A DIY windshield made from a foil roasting tray sits nicely inside.
Unless you're set on fried breakfasts, I think it'll work better than a trangia mini, and will hold a 100g canister and stove inside the pot if you decide to convert to gas later on.
Also the shape lends itself very well to being strapped to an anything cage or similar.
Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk
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Dropped to -1c when I was at Kielder, I couldn't get my Trangia lit. The person in the next tent lent me there gas stove.
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Although we have a proper Trangia for when weight isn't an issue, my first meths stove was a Clickstand (http://www.clikstand.com/) - the design of which was ripped off by Trangia to make the Triangle (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Trangia-Triangle-Lightweight-Camping-Stove/dp/B004LSASOK).
The main difference between the two products (other than Trangia shamelessly stealing Clickstand's wonderful design) is that the original product comes with the facility for an ultralight windshield. When used properly, this makes it almost as good in a breeze as a proper Trangia, yet much lighter and smaller to pack (it all goes in a pot). I really rate it.
(http://www.bikepacking.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Clikstand-Stove-Review_18.jpg)
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Dropped to -1c when I was at Kielder, I couldn't get my Trangia lit. The person in the next tent lent me there gas stove.
The procedure for lighting a Trangia in extreme low temperatures probably doesn't work with the Mini or Triangle, as it depends on being able to suspend the burner above the cap (with o-ring removed, and a small amount of fuel burning within, possibly using something as a wick to get it started).
I've lit a Trangia burner straight from the freezer by spilling some meths on the top of the burner and holding a cigarette lighter to it, but that took some effort, and was in warm air. The coldest I've used it in the wild has been a little above zero.
It's the opposite problem to gas at low temperatures: Once you get a meths burner going, it'll keep going. With gas it'll light instantly, but the butane won't boil quickly enough to keep up with demand. The proper solution is a stove with a pre-heat loop that can run on liquid butane from an inverted cartridge (the Trangia gas burner is such a design). The bodge is to immerse the cartridge in a pan of liquid water, increasing the supply of heat to the boiling gas.
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I've never used any sort of Trangia but as for windshields, I'd say that gas stoves need them too.
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Dropped to -1c when I was at Kielder, I couldn't get my Trangia lit. The person in the next tent lent me there gas stove.
The procedure for lighting a Trangia in extreme low temperatures probably doesn't work with the Mini or Triangle, as it depends on being able to suspend the burner above the cap (with o-ring removed, and a small amount of fuel burning within, possibly using something as a wick to get it started).
I've lit a Trangia burner straight from the freezer by spilling some meths on the top of the burner and holding a cigarette lighter to it, but that took some effort, and was in warm air. The coldest I've used it in the wild has been a little above zero.
It's the opposite problem to gas at low temperatures: Once you get a meths burner going, it'll keep going. With gas it'll light instantly, but the butane won't boil quickly enough to keep up with demand. The proper solution is a stove with a pre-heat loop that can run on liquid butane from an inverted cartridge (the Trangia gas burner is such a design). The bodge is to immerse the cartridge in a pan of liquid water, increasing the supply of heat to the boiling gas.
Thanks - After my Kielder trip I did see a video of someone using a night light under the burner unit to warm up the meths.
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I'm planning to use a simple meths burner made from a drinks can just to boil water on my next trip out.
I figure having that sitting to one side getting the kettle on will allow me to focus on playing with an adjustable gas stove for the main meal.
The can burner is tiny and the fuel and stove wrapped in a poly bag will happily sit inside my tea cup.
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AIUI the drinks can burners make up for their incredibly light weight with increased fuel consumption, but YMMV.
I figure having that sitting to one side getting the kettle on will allow me to focus on playing with an adjustable gas stove for the main meal.
This makes good sense, particularly if you're doing more complicated cooking, where swapping pans between stoves is less hassle than adjusting the output of a meths burner.
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https://speedsterstoves.co.uk/index.php?seo_path=30ml-spill-proof-meths/alcohol-burner
Meths burners, pots & windshields. Recommended on another blog.
I used a Trangia Mini for 2 weeks in France. Hated it, I've now got a triangle but wouldn't use it for more than an overnight trip where I wasn't doing proper cooking. The full size T27 has been all over with me & I wouldn't change that.
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https://speedsterstoves.co.uk/index.php?seo_path=30ml-spill-proof-meths/alcohol-burner
Meths burners, pots & windshields. Recommended on another blog.
I used a Trangia Mini for 2 weeks in France. Hated it, I've now got a triangle but wouldn't use it for more than an overnight trip where I wasn't doing proper cooking. The full size T27 has been all over with me & I wouldn't change that.
I also have a T27. It's been all over with me both on meths and gas and frankly I'd leave other stuff at home before that stove.
Some might say it's an emotional attachment to something from my youth but I've got tiny gas stoves, jet boils, kelly kettles, titanium doo dads and all sorts that fit in a mug but I still take my reliable T27 and leave other stuff behind.
D.
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I've never used any sort of Trangia but as for windshields, I'd say that gas stoves need them too.
True enough but Trangia kind of sell the mini as a lightweight, standalone stove set. As in not needing another windshield. Not the case and if that's what you expect then the stove disappoints.
Meths burners efficiency? Can stove efficiency can have many factors affecting it.from.number/size of jet.holes to height of pot above them.However IMHO heavier stoves have.an element of heat sink when lighting I've seen tests with different meths stoves sat in cold water and timed until they bloom. Trangia and white box stoves took longer and the claim was the burning meths had to heat a lot more metal before the meths got warm enough to go through the jets.
My agg can type stove had a little tray that you put it in a little meths in that tray is lit with the main can reservoir of.meths. The tray meths lit easier and generated enough heat to get the main stove burning through the jet holes. It makes it more efficient. IMHO any meths stove shouldn't need more than about 15ml of meths to boil cold water at 500ml.
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Second the triangle.
Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk
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http://www.thebushcraftstore.co.uk/vargo-triad-titanium-stove-2302-p.asp
Still need some sort of wind shield but it's a lovely little stove.
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Dropped to -1c when I was at Kielder, I couldn't get my Trangia lit. The person in the next tent lent me there gas stove.
The procedure for lighting a Trangia in extreme low temperatures probably doesn't work with the Mini or Triangle, as it depends on being able to suspend the burner above the cap (with o-ring removed, and a small amount of fuel burning within, possibly using something as a wick to get it started).
I've lit a Trangia burner straight from the freezer by spilling some meths on the top of the burner and holding a cigarette lighter to it, but that took some effort, and was in warm air. The coldest I've used it in the wild has been a little above zero.
It's the opposite problem to gas at low temperatures: Once you get a meths burner going, it'll keep going. With gas it'll light instantly, but the butane won't boil quickly enough to keep up with demand. The proper solution is a stove with a pre-heat loop that can run on liquid butane from an inverted cartridge (the Trangia gas burner is such a design). The bodge is to immerse the cartridge in a pan of liquid water, increasing the supply of heat to the boiling gas.
Camping at well below -6°C in the Netherlands in January I had problems with both the gas cart I had taken with me for my multi fuel stove, and my meths stove. The gas cart/multi fuel stove combo gave a puff of flame, then wouldn't respond. No fuel flow, nothing. I was suffering from frost nip already, and couldn't face trying to persuade the gas to work, so switched to the meths stove. At this temp, I was 15°C below the working temp for meths to burn properly. I tried the plenty of meths and a lighter approach, but that didn't work, I tried flint and steel, ferro rod, I even used a lump of flaming cotton dropped into the meths. In the end the solution that worked was a NATO wind proof match dropped vertically into the meths so it could prewarm a small area, and wick a little. Eventually the stove lit. I was using a Evernew Meths burner.
The evernew burner has a higher heat output, but also uses about 50% more fuel than the trangia.
AIUI the drinks can burners make up for their incredibly light weight with increased fuel consumption, but YMMV.
Yeah, a lot of stoves are very fuel inefficient. I have a Zelph starlite stove, which is very similar to the speedster stoves. It's the most fuel efficient meths stove I've found (I've tried nearly a dozen), it's very light, and you can pre fuel it if all you're expecting is a single burn. This pre fuel ability also means you can stick it, fuelled, in your sleeping bag, or coat pocket, or cleavage to warm up.
If you want reliable, light, and compact, then the MSR Micro rocket is a very good choice. Needs a wind shield like any gas stove, but you can often get away with a rock, or a bag, or even your own body.
J
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For low temperature meths stoves, it's probably best to use a wick, and light the wick with a match so the match only has to warm the meths on the wick. It can also help to get the burner running properly if you put a tray under the burner with a small amount of meths in, and light that.
Gas can work well, but you need to get a low-temperature variety of canister that's got as much of the lower temperature propane and iso-butane in the mix as possible, and as little n-butane as possible (n-butane has its 4 carbon atoms in a line, iso-butane has them in a Y).
MSR IsoPro (red), JetBoil, or Primus Powergas are suitable.
It also helps to use a remote canister stove with a preheat loop, and run the canister upside down so you don't use the propane first like you do with a canister-top stove.
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For low temperature meths stoves, it's probably best to use a wick, and light the wick with a match so the match only has to warm the meths on the wick. It can also help to get the burner running properly if you put a tray under the burner with a small amount of meths in, and light that.
Which is effectively what I improvised.
Gas can work well, but you need to get a low-temperature variety of canister that's got as much of the lower temperature propane and iso-butane in the mix as possible, and as little n-butane as possible (n-butane has its 4 carbon atoms in a line, iso-butane has them in a Y).
MSR IsoPro (red), JetBoil, or Primus Powergas are suitable.
It also helps to use a remote canister stove with a preheat loop, and run the canister upside down so you don't use the propane first like you do with a canister-top stove.
I was using Primus PowerGas, on a remote canister stove, it just didn't want to play at those temps.
J
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I was using Primus PowerGas, on a remote canister stove, it just didn't want to play at those temps.
-6°C should be OK.
Was it a part-used canister?
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I was using Primus PowerGas, on a remote canister stove, it just didn't want to play at those temps.
-6°C should be OK.
Was it a part-used canister?
Nope, brand new. I'm not sure what was going on, I've since tried the same canister and stove at room temp, lit first time. I don't know for certain it was -6°C, it could have been colder, the forecast was -6°C, and I got frost nip on my toes...
J
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Meths burners are silent, which is something that anyone who's been awakened by a fellow camper's XGK rocket engine will appreciate.
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:-[
Sorry...
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Meths burners are silent, which is something that anyone who's been awakened by a fellow camper's XGK rocket engine will appreciate.
...
:-[
Sorry...
:-[
Sorry
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Nope, brand new. I'm not sure what was going on, I've since tried the same canister and stove at room temp, lit first time. I don't know for certain it was -6°C, it could have been colder, the forecast was -6°C, and I got frost nip on my toes...
In which case I'd suspect that a bit of water (eg condensation) had got into the valve at some point, and frozen.
I wouldn't have thought -6 was cold enough for frost nip, the symptoms of which are that the frozen bits of skin peel later, like sunburn, but in thicker sheets. It's painless, apart from returning cirulation as you warm up. yes, I have had it
Not chilblains (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilblains)?
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In which case I'd suspect that a bit of water (eg condensation) had got into the valve at some point, and frozen.
That's my working theory.
I wouldn't have thought -6 was cold enough for frost nip, the symptoms of which are that the frozen bits of skin peel later, like sunburn, but in thicker sheets. It's painless, apart from returning cirulation as you warm up. yes, I have had it
Not chilblains (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilblains)?
Frost nip I think, that's what the doc called it. Damaged the nerves too. Took months for feeling to return :(
J
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I'm pretty sure most gas canisters contain a mix of gasses, which can separate. Once separated, Butane will condense to a liquid at -6 and quite happily form a lock in valves. I've had this happen in microbore (so 8mm) gas pipes from a large cylinder on a narrowboat, nothing I could do until the coal fire warmed the boat up.
Doesn't the trangia burner have a wick in it?
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All canister gases are liquid inside the canister because they are under pressure, and the liquid gas feeds up the hose to the burner head as part of normal operation. The only point is that if you feed liquid gas and your stove doesn't have a preheat loop, you'll get a big flare rather than a cooking flame.
In addition to which...
a) The PowerGas canisters under discussion are a mix of isobutane (boiling point -12) and propane (boiling point -42)
b) The mix can't separate, any more than the alcohol can separate out of the water in your beer
c) The boiling point of a mix is between the boiling points of the components, depending on the mix ratio
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AIUI the drinks can burners make up for their incredibly light weight with increased fuel consumption, but YMMV.
I figure having that sitting to one side getting the kettle on will allow me to focus on playing with an adjustable gas stove for the main meal.
This makes good sense, particularly if you're doing more complicated cooking, where swapping pans between stoves is less hassle than adjusting the output of a meths burner.
My highly unscientific kitchen testing showed it boiled a full kettle (well one and a bit cup's-worth of hot water) from one load of fuel with fuel to spare, so I'm not really bothered about fuel efficiency at all. I'm not proposing this as a solution for cold-weather camping at all!!!
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All canister gases are liquid inside the canister because they are under pressure, and the liquid gas feeds up the hose to the burner head as part of normal operation. The only point is that if you feed liquid gas and your stove doesn't have a preheat loop, you'll get a big flare rather than a cooking flame.
In addition to which...
a) The PowerGas canisters under discussion are a mix of isobutane (boiling point -12) and propane (boiling point -42)
b) The mix can't separate, any more than the alcohol can separate out of the water in your beer
c) The boiling point of a mix is between the boiling points of the components, depending on the mix ratio
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The boiling point of butane is -1C, not -12C. You are thinking of isobutane.
As the gas gets used up in a cylinder, the level of liquid drops. Unless you are inverting the cylinder, the liquid is undergoing a phase change to gas in the cylinder. If you are not using a camp cooker, (ie a house cooker or caravan) inverting a cylinder so that liquid is fed to the stove is very dangerous. At best the cooker will just go out, at worse you'll get an uncontrolled flamethrower.
Propane 'boils off' at a faster rate than butane. That's just physics.
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Doesn't the trangia burner have a wick in it?
My Trangia stove does not have a wick. AIUI, the stove is a double walled cylinder, with a series of holes/jets around the upper rim of the cylinder. There's a gap between the inner wall and the base of the cylinder, so that when fuel is poured into the cylinder it fills the gap between the inner and outer walls of the cylinder, as well as filling the center of the cylinder. When the stove is first lit, the burning alcohol sends alcohol vapor up through the holes/jets in the top of the stove. This results in flames coming out of the jets at a higher temperature and pressure than if you just lit a pool of alcohol on fire.
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Meths burners are silent, which is something that anyone who's been awakened by a fellow camper's XGK rocket engine will appreciate.
...
:-[
Sorry...
:-[
Sorry
Shhh! She's asleep!
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...a mix of isobutane (boiling point -12)...
The boiling point of butane is -1C, not -12C. You are thinking of isobutane.
I think you need to cultivate your reading skills a bit ;D
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inverting a cylinder so that liquid is fed to the stove is very dangerous.
It's fine, but you have to use a stove with a preheat loop (as I've mentioned more than once in this topic).
Several such stoves come with a canister stand expressly designed to hold the canister upside down without it rolling about.
Cultivate your reading skills some more ;D
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Meths burners are silent, which is something that anyone who's been awakened by a fellow camper's XGK rocket engine will appreciate.
...
:-[
Sorry...
:-[
Sorry
Not Sorry ;)
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My Trangia stove does not have a wick. AIUI, the stove is a double walled cylinder, with a series of holes/jets around the upper rim of the cylinder. There's a gap between the inner wall and the base of the cylinder, so that when fuel is poured into the cylinder it fills the gap between the inner and outer walls of the cylinder, as well as filling the center of the cylinder. When the stove is first lit, the burning alcohol sends alcohol vapor up through the holes/jets in the top of the stove. This results in flames coming out of the jets at a higher temperature and pressure than if you just lit a pool of alcohol on fire.
It it's cold, the alcohol in the cavity between the inner and outer walls doesn't vaporize fast enough to give jets until the burning pool in the center has heated the body of the burner. This can be slow enough that a more forceful heating using a tray or can lid under the burner is worth while.
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...a mix of isobutane (boiling point -12)...
The boiling point of butane is -1C, not -12C. You are thinking of isobutane.
I think you need to cultivate your reading skills a bit ;D
Whoops, missed the iso.
Unless you are inverting the canister, the mix is undergoing a phase change in the canister. Propane will boil off first, creating an increasing fraction of the isobutane.
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Unless you are inverting the canister, the mix is undergoing a phase change in the canister. Propane will boil off first, creating an increasing fraction of the isobutane.
It's been a while since I was let loose in a chemistry lab, but IIRC fractional distillation depends on fairly precise control of the temperature.
If sufficient heat is available that the contents of the cylinder are kept well above the boiling point of all fractions (as you'd expect in normal warm-weather use), they should be used up according to the proportions present. The problem comes when it's warm enough to boil the propane but not the (iso)butane, and the heat used by the boiling propane exacerbates the problem by further lowering the temperature.
With a liquid-fed stove, you only need to produce enough gas to light the stove, and maintain pressure in the cartridge to push the liquid out. It doesn't matter if this is achieved entirely by propane gas, as very little is used up. (The liquid fed to the stove will be a proportional mixture.)
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Propane will boil off first, creating an increasing fraction of the isobutane.
Indeed, which is why canister top stoves get weaker and weaker as the canister gas gets used.
However, it's not the case that you burn the propane, then the butane, or that you use them in the same proportion as the mix (with an upright canister).
Taking a regular Coleman 70% butane, 30% propane canister...
At 10°C, the vapour pressure of pure propane is about 6.5 bar, and for pure butane it's about 1.5 bar (lookup properties). The partial pressure of propane is 6.5*0.3=1.95 bar, and the partial pressure of butane is 1.5*0.7=1.05 bar, and the pressure inside the canister is 1.95+1.05=3 bar (2 bar net), which is plenty to get a decent flow of gas.
The gas mix you burn will be 1.95/3=65% propane and 1.05/3=35% butane, so you are burning the propane nearly twice as fast as the butane.
By the time the canister is 60% used, there's virtually no propane left. You've got a pressure inside the canister of 1.5 bar (0.5 bar net), so the maximum flow rate is only a quarter of what it was with the new canister, and you've got evaporative cooling taking it down still further.
The initial vapour pressures change with different temperatures (eg at 40°, propane is 14 bar and butane is about 3.8 bar), but you'll always be using propane faster than butane.
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Propane will boil off first, creating an increasing fraction of the isobutane.
Indeed, which is why canister top stoves get weaker and weaker as the canister gas gets used.
I don't think that's the whole story: I'm in the habit of using pure butane cartridges when low-temperature performance isn't an issue (as they're dirt cheap), and they also get weaker as the gas is used up. I reckon simple loss of thermal mass as the amount of liquid in the cartridge reduces is also a problem.
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I reckon simple loss of thermal mass as the amount of liquid in the cartridge reduces is also a problem.
I hadn't thought of that, but it's true.
On the same lines, Primus do a "winter" version of PowerGas, in which the gas is the same, but there's a felt/paper liner so the gas can evaporate without cooling the bulk liquid so much (or that's what the blurb says, anyway)
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Primus sell heat pads to sit under the canister. They seem to be effective in cold weather.
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Although we have a proper Trangia for when weight isn't an issue, my first meths stove was a Clickstand (http://www.clikstand.com/) - the design of which was ripped off by Trangia to make the Triangle (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Trangia-Triangle-Lightweight-Camping-Stove/dp/B004LSASOK).
I wonder if the Triangle's more open 'wire' burner support allows more oxygen thru than the clikstand's perforated metal burner support.
The windshield supports can be replicated(slightly less conveniently) using curtain hooks*.
I wonder why Trangia left them off: did they need a legal 'significant design difference'?
*see review by 'Fenlander from United KingdomOwner25 January 2011' at http://www.jackson-sports.com/en/Trangia-Triangle-Reviews/r-8112.aspx (http://www.jackson-sports.com/en/Trangia-Triangle-Reviews/r-8112.aspx)
NB I think the Trangia burner might have a wick inside the jets' chamber (my esbit clone did).
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NB I think the Trangia burner might have a wick inside the jets' chamber (my esbit clone did).
I thought it did, to just under the holes. If you put just a bit of meths in, it would wick up. Googling suggests there is something like rockwool in there.
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If you have no interest in simmering, the smaller esbit alcohol/solid fuel tablets triangle is a possibility
( has slots for edge of esbit alcohol burner so presumably fits trangia burner)
http://www.biggrassfield.com/ce-cs75s_cookware-stoves_esbit_ultralight_stainless_steel_solid_fuel_stove.htm (http://www.biggrassfield.com/ce-cs75s_cookware-stoves_esbit_ultralight_stainless_steel_solid_fuel_stove.htm)
Has much smaller gap for air though?
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The triangle has an advantage over current 27.25UL trangia sets:
it has air holes all round whereas despite an official Trangia* warning about how the new 25/27UL base may melt if holes not aimed into wind: they have not updated the base to have holes all round to negate this.
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Isn't that a feature, rather than a bug? By only having holes on one side, the airflow is directed past the burner and round the pan. If it blew straight through efficiency might suffer...
I've not found this a problem in practice (maybe my 27 is older and immune from risk of meltdown?) - if the wind isn't blowing in a consistent direction, it tends not to blow in the wrong direction for very long. If it changes direction properly, it's easy enough to rotate the whole thing by the cool lower part while it's in use.
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Isn't that a feature, rather than a bug? .....
I only saw it reported as a problem with after the intoduction of the UL material*
but it seems a pain to have to rotate the UL variant stove every time the wind changes direction so I would count it as at least a nuisance if not a bug... Surely better to design around holes around, even if some other change required but thenl is OK on triangle, ...
(when I used my ancient late eighties non-UL base in the mountains I never bothered and used to sometimes deliberately aim the holes out of the fierce mountain wind to try to tame the flame more than the simmer ring..)
*http://trangia.se/en/faq/ (http://trangia.se/en/faq/)
see Section entitled 'My vessels or windshield has melted, how could this happen?'
I came across the 'ULs 'new' feature' (years ago) on the site of a disgruntled Australian who was unimpressed by this new property of the UL versions compared to his old models (with photo of melted base).
This is a different (less disgruntled, despite a more alarming detailed description of event, person) who suffered the same sort of thing:
see post by rifraf
]http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42497&start=200] (http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42497&start=200)
see post by rifraf
NB Tatonka make a 25 clone with a stainless base (and pans and lid...and burner).
EDITed to tidy links
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Cor, that's impressive for a meths stove. Having read http://www.trangia-central.com/trangia-materials.html I reckon mine is plain aluminium. It's certainly survived a couple of reverse-polarity wind incidents, including with the gas burner (indeed, the gas burner makes rotating the stove a fair bit more tricky).
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...reverse-polarity wind incidents, including with the gas burner (indeed, the gas burner makes rotating the stove a fair bit more tricky).
The gas supply to the gas burner is limited(fixed) by the setting on its remote needle valve atop the gas cylinder, so perhaps it is a meths burner only problem? Which would be good given the awkwardness of rotating a gas powered Trangia 27/5.
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From the description above, it does sound like it took a howling gale to cause a meltdown though; it needed to be enough of a draught to cause a pressure drop in the base and draw the flames down. Still impressive for a meths burner, but not something I'd worry about for day to day use.
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From .....
I was just about to post that (it seemed to need extreme-mountain-grade-wind rather than usual lower level camp site grade wind) but you have saved me the trouble: :)
EDIT However the Trangia 27/25 are sold as Mountain stoves.
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I always wondered if Trangia did any performance testing after adding the large hole for the gas cable: it is rather larger than the normal small vent holes (where I think fluid dynamics means some 'air-braking'): could it be the main cause rather than the UL material?
My original non-UL heavy base had no such gas cut-out.