Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => PBP => Topic started by: drgannet on 26 September, 2017, 02:27:38 pm
-
For those who have ridden PBP, in your opinion which AUK ride 300km+ most closely resembles the terrain of PBP (thinking first of gradients and then m/km ascent)? Thanks.
-
For those who have ridden PBP, in your opinion which AUK ride 300km+ most closely resembles the terrain of PBP (thinking first of gradients and then m/km ascent)? Thanks.
As noted by a PBP ancien, A Rough Diamond has similar rolling characteristic and spacing between controls. Also like PBP there are plenty of places between controls to pitstop.
-
I don't think there is any part of the country which mimics the long gradual ascents and descents of the PBP. Most of the long events in this country are harder!
In my opinion the closest would be the Heart of England 300. But don't ride this merely as preparation for PBP: it's an excellent ride in its own right.
-
Plains 300.
You have to ride through the night as it starts at 2300!
Also, good rolling terrain down that Wales area.
If you want 300+ then what part of the 1200km ride do you wish to resemble as the PBP changes in nature anyway depending where you are.
Other than something in pan flat earth land over in the east, then pretty much any audax, other than the high AAA events could be said to resemble parts of PBP. And I would not dismiss the flat events in the east as they are invariably accompanied by winds that are an excellent trading vehicle for PBP.
-
PBP not next year, surely
-
PBP is in 2018. My experience in long distance rides is that as long as you are a seasoned rider and ride long frequently that is all the practice you will need for PBP, LEL, or any other long ride. Time in the saddle is the most important requirement.
You might have a course that exactly mirrors the PBP, but on the day of the ride; cold, wet, tired, hungry, wind, crowd conditions with the mental stress of finishing thrown in, will all decide if you finish or not.
-
PBP is in 2018.
No, 2019.
-
As noted by a PBP ancien, A Rough Diamond has similar rolling characteristic and spacing between controls. Also like PBP there are plenty of places between controls to pitstop.
There's certainly a similarity between the Rough Diamond and PBP in that the Roadster suffered crank-related problems on both of them!
In my opinion the closest would be the Heart of England 300. But don't ride this merely as preparation for PBP: it's an excellent ride in its own right.
You're right about the Heart of England being an excellent ride; it's one of my favourites. But I think it's a *lot* flatter than PBP. Apart from a couple of climbs early on, of course.
Me, I'd suggest the Brevet Cymru is closest to PBP. Sheila Simpson's Northwest 600 was another PBP-clone; hilly-ish and it started at 10pm. A pity it's no longer run.
-
If you do the hilly ones (for me in the SE I mean The Dean, the Shark, Oasts and Coasts, those kinds of rides then BCM) then you have good enough hillage. However you could probably mimic the PBP hills best by doing 5-10 minute intervals :-) I think the thing to get your head around is the late afternoon start - it's pretty close to a certainty that you will be riding through one night and most of the second before you get a decent (ie 2 hour) sleep. Sleep and food and phaffage and the general chaos are the issues on PBP not the hills so much. Having said that I will be doing a lot more hills in early 2019 to prepare!
-
Thanks for the replies so far. I perhaps should have explained my motive for asking, which is that I rode PBP in 2015 on gears but am contemplating 2019 on fixed. I have done a few audaxes on fixed but nothing that comes close to the long relatively gradual ascents/descents of PBP, and I was hoping to find a suitable ride in 2018 to halp decide whether it was (for me) feasible, and in what gear.
I agree the Heart of England is an excellent ride, and I have ridden it fixed, but general terrain is, I feel, easier than on PBP. From memory, I reckon the BCM might not be too far off (ignoring the new bit between LLanidloes and Machynlleth).
BTW, I recently came across this website http://www.trackreport.net/ (http://www.trackreport.net/) which allows you to see gradients in gpx tracks with a more accurate representation (if you select 'very fine') than sites like RWGPS, which possibly helps with comparisons.
-
As you've ridden Heart of England on fixed then you've got some idea about what you're letting yourself in for by doing longer rides on fixed.
I would suggest doing a SR on fixed in 2018 and seeing how you get on with that, but wouldn't worry if your rides are representative of PBP because if you can get around a SR on fixed you're in a good position to give PBP a crack on fixed. For reference in 2015 I rode the following on fixed in the build up to PBP:
- Willy Warmer 200
- Asparagus & Strawberries 400
- Great Escape 200
- Windsor Chester Windsor 600
- Edmunds Folk Sally Forth & Paddle 200
- Rural South 300
As you've already ridden PBP you'll have an idea of the route and so you'll know there's nothing worryingly steep, which is the biggest issue on fixed. The worst part, IMO, is getting dropped by groups on the descents off the rollers during the first few hundred kilometres. There was a Kiwi (BrokeButt) who's longest ride on fixed prior to PBP 2015 was something like 200 km and he got rode in under 70 hours.
-
this might help https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=90488.0 (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=90488.0)
-
When Graeme asked the question, I told him that the A167 from Newcastle to Darlo is pretty similar - generally gentle climbing, generally for a few miles.
It's probably steeper than most of PBP, though (especially the climb out of the Wear), and I can't think of any audaxes that use it since Aidan's changed the route of the Border Raid. Maybe he'll resurrect the Kirkley Gallop for PBP qualification, which came back up that way, and also went out around similar terrain to the east of Durham.
-
Not sure I can help. My 600s for PBP qualification have been the likes of BCM, Brimstone, and Kernow & SW, so PBP has always felt reasonably flat in comparison.
-
PBP is in 2018.
No, 2019.
Oops! I knew that. :facepalm:
-
The difference between riding a long ride on gears and a long ride on fixed won't be found by doing a 300km ride on fixed.
If you're used to riding events on fixed then you're used to putting in the same power requirements but at a much lower cadence. You'll be used to not freewheeling on the downhills. That's the easy bit with relatively fresh legs.
The trickier bit comes on day 3 or 4 when you wish you could freewheel on the long, seemingly endless, 3-4% descents, but you can't. And you can't mimic that with a single ride of 600km or less.
There was never anything on PBP (or LEL in 2009) that I couldn't grind my way up on a 67" gear (and I'm not particularly athletic). On the few rides I've done on both gears and fixed I only generally walked the same climbs that I walked when I had gears (anything more than 12%).
The best plan I'd suggest is just start riding all events (except silly grimpeurs) on fixed.
BCM, The Dean, London-Wales-London, etc. All great rides for fixed. Do the Elenith (or whatever it is called now, Yr Elenydd?, doesn't seem to be running next year so find the route and arrange a group DIY of it) and enjoy walking the 18%+ stretches (including the 25% bit).
-
Deano up thread mentioned my 600. IMO a very good fixed wheel 600 is 'The New Border Raid ' from Newcastle upon Tyne in June '18. As the org. I test rode the route recently, only my second ever fixed 600 and I really enjoyed it. Most gradients are PBPish but the scenery is much better! Also a suitable ride for those with gears..of course this sounds like a promotion..
-
The best plan I'd suggest is just start riding all events (except silly grimpeurs) on fixed.
Wilkyboy did PBP (2015) and LEL (2013) on Brompton and LEL (2017) on fixed. His secret (I think!) was to ride all events on the steed he planned to ride.
Sound advice from Greenbank, particularly the day 3/4 scenario as if you think a 600 is bad enough on a whatever, then wait until ....................!
Get thee on fixed if you wish to do a big fixed events!
-
The best plan I'd suggest is just start riding all events (except silly grimpeurs) on fixed.
Good advice. I'd suggest throwing in the odd silly grimpeur just for fun too. :thumbsup:
Before LEL '09 I did a full AAA SR on fixed - I figured that the harder I made the 'qualifying' rides the easier that LEL would be.
My qualifiers for PBP '11 were all completed on gears - after the 600 I realised that I'd much rather be riding fixed - so I did a 4.5AAA 300 on fixed 3 weeks before PBP then rode PBP on 72". The only really hard bit I remember was a climb on the last stage about an hour from the finish (but that felt a bit easier because I'd just passed Greenbank :P )
-
The only really hard bit I remember was a climb on the last stage about an hour from the finish (but that felt a bit easier because I'd just passed Greenbank :P )
https://youtu.be/GqqK42aYVMQ?t=100
(At ~1:40 if the video doesn't automatically start there... you in the Audax Cymru top followed by me in the yacf cap, it was the Forêt de Rambouillet IIRC.)
-
The best plan I'd suggest is just start riding all events (except silly grimpeurs) on fixed.
Wilkyboy did PBP (2015) and LEL (2013) on Brompton and LEL (2017) on fixed. His secret (I think!) was to ride all events on the steed he planned to ride.
Yes, it certainly helped to do that. I'll be sticking with fixed for the next couple of years, as I plan to ride PBP on fixed in 2019. Anyway, riding fixed is just so much fun ;)
Sound advice from Greenbank, particularly the day 3/4 scenario as if you think a 600 is bad enough on a whatever, then wait until ....................!
Towards the end of LEL this year a few of us raced up the Essex hills to arrivée to find out what was left in the tank after 1350km of riding — the only way to find out is to ride 1350km and then attack! It was great fun and quite unexpectedly different to what feels left at the ends of shorter rides :) It was still probably tragically slow, though ... We don't often ride such long rides, so it's rare that we get the opportunity to find out.
-
The only really hard bit I remember was a climb on the last stage about an hour from the finish (but that felt a bit easier because I'd just passed Greenbank :P )
https://youtu.be/GqqK42aYVMQ?t=100
(At ~1:40 if the video doesn't automatically start there... you in the Audax Cymru top followed by me in the yacf cap, it was the Forêt de Rambouillet IIRC.)
:thumbsup: I thought it was thereabouts. If the 2015 route is the same as 2011 then it was probably the climb out of Gambaiseuil.
-
The only really hard bit I remember was a climb on the last stage about an hour from the finish (but that felt a bit easier because I'd just passed Greenbank :P )
I recall that climb, I thought to myself - "time to use the granny ring", not because it was particularly steep, but until then the thing hadn't been used.
-
For those who have ridden PBP, in your opinion which AUK ride 300km+ most closely resembles the terrain of PBP (thinking first of gradients and then m/km ascent)? Thanks.
I would have thought any rides that have 1%-1.5% average climbing would do.
We qualified exclusively on flat rides last time, and found PBP really hilly. Most folks who eat up 1%+ rides found it "easy". That said, if you start in the Sunday afternoon 90 hour group, and don't handle sleep dep that well, you'll always find PBP difficult, and for me, that was a principle difference between PBP and LEL; in that I was never short on sleep on LEL, but was from the outset, on PBP.
-
I ran an Audax called the Rutland Weekend for 3 years. It ran from Baldock to Bottesford and back. It is pretty similar to PBP but without the clapping crowds. You could do it as a DIY Here is a link to the GPX - which may not quite match the actual route of the event. https://ridewithgps.com/routes/4622632
Marcus JB wrote a very nice ride description for its 2013 running, which I didn't pay him for.
-
The advice when I first started was to do 2 series and make one of them hilly (BCM, Wessex series, etc). There was also something about being able to do a 600 in 32hrs. This has turned out to be rubbish.
Last time round I just did flat qualifiers but did do an element of speedwork.
PBP is relentlessly rolling but not what you'd call really hilly. In 2011 I used 70" and it was a bit spinny on the long descents causing a lot of hand/arse discomfort with the bouncing. In 2015 I geared up to 79" which was much better with the only bits I found hard being Loudeac to Carhaix on the way out and the little steep bits in the forest 20k from the end.
-
Having done a mellow fixed SR in the Essex regions last year I think up thread emphasis on the right gear for downhills is probably right, I would certainly plan on using something a tooth less spinny than usual for england that's for sure. I am normally a spin on 70 kinda guy but would think a 74/76 would be the business for a fixed PBP. But then I would always have a smaller spocket on the other side - and maybe a freewheel in the saddlebag!
-
I started on 79", but my achilles started to play up on day 4 to the point I could no longer stand on the pedals, so had to flip to 74", though not really sure if it was the high gearing that triggered it, or that fact that I wasted a couple of hours recovering a stolen brevet and had to push hard to make up time.
Interestingly, there was four us all riding fixed together in the 84h group, all with different gear inches which meant we would naturally separate on every climb and descent, seemingly far more than when riding with geared companions.
-
I ran an Audax called the Rutland Weekend for 3 years. It ran from Baldock to Bottesford and back. It is pretty similar to PBP but without the clapping crowds. You could do it as a DIY Here is a link to the GPX - which may not quite match the actual route of the event. https://ridewithgps.com/routes/4622632
This is plotted by the routesheet rather than a recorded GPX : https://ridewithgps.com/routes/2691979 (https://ridewithgps.com/routes/2691979). It's a nice route, I enjoyed it, but I was dropped within five minutes of the start and the only other riders I saw all day were a couple of guys who started later than me and passed me ::-) Another lonely day on the bike ...
-
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/2691979 (https://ridewithgps.com/routes/2691979). It's a nice route ...
Ooh, that road between Baldock and Ashwell via Bygrave. On of my faves in these parts. Is PBP really as undulating as *that*?
-
I ran an Audax called the Rutland Weekend for 3 years. It ran from Baldock to Bottesford and back. It is pretty similar to PBP but without the clapping crowds. You could do it as a DIY Here is a link to the GPX - which may not quite match the actual route of the event. https://ridewithgps.com/routes/4622632
This is plotted by the routesheet rather than a recorded GPX : https://ridewithgps.com/routes/2691979 (https://ridewithgps.com/routes/2691979). It's a nice route, I enjoyed it, but I was dropped within five minutes of the start and the only other riders I saw all day were a couple of guys who started later than me and passed me ::-) Another lonely day on the bike ...
Oh thanks for that I have 200,400,600 DIYs from the house. I will add this as a 300 to complete the list. Might ride it in October or November all being well.
-
Just reflecting on this, and on the recent West Highland 1000. The two rides that I would say have a similar profile that I've done are mentioned above - the Heart of England and the Rough Diamond. The difference is that after a certain number of kilometres (in my case about 600) the description of "hill" becomes a lower and lower hurdle until the point at which the elevation onto the Forth Road Bridge can seem like a significant climb, whereas earlier into the ride a 180m ascent can pass as "was that it then?"
In terms of meters of ascent per kilometre, PBP is flatter than most long AUK rides, but it won't seem that way.
The only advice I can offer is to practice climbing when fatigued. I achieved this by accident through getting dropped on long hard CC Basingstoke club runs and having to make my way home with two pieces of jelly attached to my hips. And it was only on my first PBP that I realised this had really helped because I had worked out how to climb when knackered. I guess you could simulate this by doing a 4-hour ride on water and including an ascent of something in the order of Box Hill as the last climb before home. This sort of thing trained me to ride at a vaguely acceptable pace when in an unacceptable condition, which is where IMHO most of us will endure at some point during PBP.
-
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/2691979 (https://ridewithgps.com/routes/2691979). It's a nice route ...
Ooh, that road between Baldock and Ashwell via Bygrave. On of my faves in these parts. Is PBP really as undulating as *that*?
Yes. That rolling open prairie round there is EXACTLY what PBP is like.
-
I was surprised in 2015 how hilly the bits round Loudeac were despite having been there in 2007 and 2011.
Being there in daylight made a huge difference to my impression of the terrain. It's quite lumpy there.
The ride from Mortagne to Dreux and beyond is pretty dispiriting on fixed on the way back. There's just a very slight hint of descending, that seems to go on forever. I was so pleased to find some hills again as we got nearer to the arrivee. The rollers around Loudeac on the way back were a laugh - spin like mad down one and see how far you can get back up the other side. Reminds me of the A466 on the old Bryan Chapman route (the bit before Monmouth).
I did fixed in 2011 and in 2015, and did the 90h start in 2007 and 2011, and 80h in 2015. I plan to use gears and be on 80h if I make the start next year.
Currently not looking that likely, as I am enjoying rowing. If the club gets a competitive 8 together then I will need to be spending a lot of time on the water when I would be riding qualifiers.
-
Being in Noord Holland, everything with any sort of incline is going to be classed as hilly. I'm wondering tho if anyone can help put some perspective into the terrain of PBP.
When people say hilly, are we talking short, sharp punchy hills (ala Limberg 5-20% over 1km), long rolling undulations (1km up at 3%, 1km down at 3%),
What's the typical max gradient, largest ascent etc..? Either way, I'm guessing I'm going to be spending a fair bit of time training in the Ardennes...
J
PS Makes me wonder about a reliable metric for quantifying the hillyness of a route...
-
PBP for me was very much rolling terrain, numerous and I mean numerous rolling hills in the region of 3-6% which are relatively short.
Maybe 3 or 4 hills that really were a test and you had to sit back and go into climbing mode.
-
Steep hills are rare; I can recall three.
I think of most of it as long rollers but flatlanders describe it as hilly throughout. When going well, I can hold the same gear on the back for fairly long distances, just swapping between chainrings going up and down and standing over the top.
-
You can pore over the profiles here:
https://ridewithgps.com/events/11783-pbp-2015
The longest climb is probably Roc'h Trevezel which is about a 17km long climb at 1.5% (according to that RWGPS link). It's in Stages 7 and 8.
-
Rolling, nothing super steep. My front shifter broke about 400m into PBP 2015. So I did PBP entirely on my middle chainring of 39t and lower half of my cassette. Apart from the last flatter bit where I stopped to reclamp the front derailleur cable to get my big ring of 50t.
-
You can pore over the profiles here:
https://ridewithgps.com/events/11783-pbp-2015
The longest climb is probably Roc'h Trevezel which is about a 17km long climb at 1.5% (according to that RWGPS link). It's in Stages 7 and 8.
Excellent, that gives me graphs I can look at and understand. Verdict: Limberg here I come!
J
-
Start your season on the fixed and you'll soon get an idea whether you want to continue into PBP on the same machine.
-
Bear in mind that, although it's an out and back route (mainly) the second 612km are hillier than the first ;)