Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => On The Road => Topic started by: ABlipInContinuity on 12 November, 2008, 10:55:49 pm
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I think lighting enough to be seen by is adequate where there is street lighting, take for example a Cateye EL-530 or two. I can't see the point in lights that are painfully bright. I've seen a few oncoming cyclists (at night) with them angled to highly - and they are not only a nuisance to motorists, they are a nuisance to other cyclists too!
If your average moton doesn't see an EL-530, all anything super-bright and death ray like is going to do is dazzle or panic them, possibly resulting in erratic or unpredictable driving. Or, if the motorist is so minded, give them something to drive at.
Don't get me wrong, on an unlit road, I'm all for having something brighter to see by.
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From my experience, all several thousand miles of it, death rays are better than pissant lights.
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I can only agree with you partly: I concur that cyclists with badly aimed lights are a pain in the arse.
But on urban roads the motons definitely improve when the Dinotte or Fenix is on epileptic mode, especially in one particular situation: when they are debating whether it'll be OK to drive out of a side road right in front of you. And they still have that effect when aimed quite low.
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Nearly any LED >£15 with fresh batteries is capable of being piercingly bright. And I can spot them a mile off, literally. Hardly call them "pissant". The white LEDs that shine green or yellow are a different matter, but adding to my original point:
Is it not a bit like an arms race? A bit like Day Running Lights - shouldn't we be conditioning motorists to look out for vulnerable road users who are adequately lit [at night] instead of only noticing the ones with the death rays?
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I have noticed moton behaviour modification in the dark or wet from even my twin EL530s. I'm therefore all in favour of
the Death Star good lights on bikes.
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I have noticed moton behaviour modification in the dark or wet from even my twin EL530s. I'm therefore all in favour of the Death Star good lights on bikes.
Sort of what I'm getting at really, I think there's a happy medium.
I've just noticed a few cyclists on the last few weeks with really dazzling lights - more like the sort you would use off road. I suppose they are less of a problem if they are angled downwards, or full power reserved for when it appears like you haven't been seen. - This is what I did when I had a lighting system before I was relieved of the bike I had equipped with it.
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The trouble is that "lit" roads aren't always lit all the way along due to the odd missing or broken street lamp. It does help to have a light bright enough to spot the potholes in the dark patches. They're also handy when taking a detour down some unlit path or something, and you may not want a second light on the bike just for those. Of course theyshould be pointed down, though.
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The fkers have been pointing their lights at me and making me wave pitifully at them to try to get them to dip their beams.
This is payback time.
Besides, with a cap with a peak, rather than a prayer helmet, I can dip my head and say goodbye to their Xenon excess.
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I use a stupidly bright P7 LED based light. My commute is 50% unlit country lanes.
It has the added benefit of a WTF factor, and motorists definately think twice (or worst case only once - but still once more than usual ;D) cos they have no idea what you are.
Sadly I cannot use the strobe mode. It is not designed as a bike light, and the strobe frequency is definatly in the epilepsy inducing range - not what I want to cause in an oncoming driver.
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Metal Halide for me, with a backup L&M Vega. The halide is aimed precisely at the average driver's eyes. It makes a material difference to their behaviour. I've been saved by it several times, and I often use it on murky mornings when cyclists seem to become invisible.
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My lights are aimed at the road as I am looking for pot holes and road debris ( large stones can be a pain if ridden on ). 95% of my roads are unlit and do not have gutters ( variance of muddy verge, grassy verge, ditch, hedge etc. ). I am therefore using my lights to see and stay safe with. I am not aiming them at motorists or trying to blind anyone.
But.
I know they are bright and they cause motorists in basically single carriageway lanes to slow when they negotiate me. That is exactly what I want them to do.
I can see the difference to riding in Telford maybe and my rural environment. Quite often going home all I have to concentrate upon is a little pool of blue light that is caused by my Lumicycle Halide beam. Everything else is pitch black.
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I'm also hugely in favour of super bright lights, because of the moton behaviour modification they induce. Still, they don't always cause this, so it's as well to remember that not every driver looks. A little bit of irritation is nothing compared with the effect on my safety, IMO.
Oh, and I don't think the "irritation" is anything like as bad as that from bright car lights - which are often much brighter and more blinding.
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Fiery beams of deth? Fuck yeah.
As far as I'm concerned, I'll run as powerful lights as I can afford and I'll point them in the place that best ensures my safety.
A combination of the Fantom XR9 on the back and a Fenix L2D Q5 on the front costs less than £70 and when they're fed good quality batteries, they're eye-meltingly bright.
I usually have a handful of people pull out on me from side roads every winter (presumably inna SMIDSY stylee) leaving me to come screeching to a halt with the adrenalin flowing and my heart pounding. Since I've been using the Fenix for dark rides and commuting, it's not happened once.
So what if it is an arms race? I'm winning, baby :demon:
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I'll see your Fenix and raise you an Airbike SL2. 700 lumens of 'WTF :o' - three or four cars heading towards me last night pulled over to let me through.
it happens occasionally with a solidlight but the Airbike is remarkable.
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We occasionally get info on various research. One last year was on road accidents, from it they concluded that most car drivers when they approach a give way are looking for two lights coming in their direction, I know I have just recently read a thread where the EU where talking about all day lights and one argument against was down to cycle safety as drivers will tune into looking for lights and not object's. The way I look at it, my life is worth more than their cars etc so if I upset them in the process of being seen then so be it! My lights are not death rays, but bright enough to make them notice it.
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I think lighting enough to be seen by is adequate where there is street lighting, take for example a Cateye EL-530 or two. I can't see the point in lights that are painfully bright. I've seen a few oncoming cyclists (at night) with them angled to highly - and they are not only a nuisance to motorists, they are a nuisance to other cyclists too!
I'm with you Blip, but I think once a cyclist has tasted the forbidden fruit of death ray lighting, they are never gonna give them up.
This seems to be an area where no-one thinks moderation is good :(
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But this why we should use B&M IQ (Fly/Cyo/Ixon/Schmidt Edulux) lights. Bright but the reflector concentrates the light in the downward direction creating a much brighter light on the road than unwards at other road users. So everybody benefits.
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My lights aren't nearly as bright as those ugly things that adorn the latest gas-guzzler.
I want lights that will light up a totally dark road and warn me of potholes / leaves / debris, and which will also stand out in urban spangle where motorists are looking for large, bright lights. Get the sweet residents of Ol' Acton Town an attention span apiece and I'll consider having less bright lights (actually, let's start with getting the sods licensed and insured). Until then, if they see nothing else while they smoke their joint, fiddle with the radio, scratch their balls and phone a friend, I want them seeing me please.
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>I think lighting enough to be seen by is adequate
I think going out without lighting enough to see is foolish.
You may go somewhere unexpected. The street lights may fail.
One should aim one's Death Star Main Weapon Array toward the ground: I'm not a fan of dazzling drivers for the fun of it (even if they do it to me, the worthless toad farts).
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My lights aren't nearly as bright as those ugly things that adorn the latest gas-guzzler.
I want lights that will light up a totally dark road and warn me of potholes / leaves / debris, and which will also stand out in urban spangle where motorists are looking for large, bright lights.
That 'and' may be the problem here. When driving our cars, we use completely different lighting for these two purposes. There is a separate switch for the 'Main Beam', and its usage is explained to trainee drivers. Bike lights have only recently evolved to allow those of average expenditure to compete with the car lights. There is no established protocol, and the beam patterns haven't been configured for the bike-on-road application.
If you want bike lights that show potholes as well as car lights, you may be surprised - almost all of them can. Next time you're in a car on an unlit road (preferably with a crappy surface), do an experiment:
drive at 25mph, and look at the road for those potholes and debris. You'll find you can't see as much detail as you would LIKE if you were on 2 wheels. Just the same as if you were riding with 'average' bike lights.
I often see bikes with lights BRIGHTER than the surrounding (dipped) car lights.
Something is out of whack with all this.
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Blip - I think you have got your thinking of when bright lights are of the most use, slightly back to front.
Very bright lights are the most use in the bright lights of a city - dimmer lights don't stand out against the background of car headlights, brakelights and streetlighting.
I've got a delicious Hope Vision 1 and I spent some time setting it up to shine into drivers eyes at the distance that I feel is acceptable for me to take evasive action at cruising speed. This has 2 advantages 1) I only need to use the light on its lowest setting, saving batteries and improving run time. I crank it up to full power for RABs, and it makes a significant difference to motons behaviour 2) I actually get noticed and not ignored, unlike when I was using my 2 Cateye EL410s
Car drivers do NOT look for vehicles at night, they only look for lights - so having a light as bright/piercing as a motorbike headlight is an advantage.
In a less light polluted environment, super bright lights are less important for visibility of the cyclist. Any old LED with 2month old batteries stands out on a dark lane.
In a dark lane, super bright lights are of course hand to see where you are going!
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My lights aren't nearly as bright as those ugly things that adorn the latest gas-guzzler.
I want lights that will light up a totally dark road and warn me of potholes / leaves / debris, and which will also stand out in urban spangle where motorists are looking for large, bright lights.
That 'and' may be the problem here. When driving our cars, we use completely different lighting for these two purposes. There is a separate switch for the 'Main Beam', and its usage is explained to trainee drivers. Bike lights have only recently evolved to allow those of average expenditure to compete with the car lights. There is no established protocol, and the beam patterns haven't been configured for the bike-on-road application.
If you want bike lights that show potholes as well as car lights, you may be surprised - almost all of them can. Next time you're in a car on an unlit road (preferably with a crappy surface), do an experiment:
drive at 25mph, and look at the road for those potholes and debris. You'll find you can't see as much detail as you would LIKE if you were on 2 wheels. Just the same as if you were riding with 'average' bike lights.
I often see bikes with lights BRIGHTER than the surrounding (dipped) car lights.
Something is out of whack with all this.
Yeah, but will a car crash and injure the driver if it runs into an ice crack, or over a chunky fallen branch?
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Metal Halide for me, with a backup L&M Vega. The halide is aimed precisely at the average driver's eyes. It makes a material difference to their behaviour. I've been saved by it several times, and I often use it on murky mornings when cyclists seem to become invisible.
Do you flash at all Rae? I don't have any super bright fixed beams, but it strikes me that bright lights aimed at the road, plus flashing LEDS aimed 'parallel' to road, or slightly up, may actually be better. I think that in dark, busy traffic conditions flashing stands out more. Also, from 'a lights in the eyes' POV, many of us drive from time to time... ;) but having said that being noticed is good...
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I often see bikes with lights BRIGHTER than the surrounding (dipped) car lights.
You mean lights that put out more light in total than dipped headlights, or lights that look bright because the light is coming from a smaller source?
I'd rather be in a car and have a bright light shone at me than be on a bike and have the same.
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My lights aren't nearly as bright as those ugly things that adorn the latest gas-guzzler.
I want lights that will light up a totally dark road and warn me of potholes / leaves / debris, and which will also stand out in urban spangle where motorists are looking for large, bright lights.
That 'and' may be the problem here. When driving our cars, we use completely different lighting for these two purposes. There is a separate switch for the 'Main Beam', and its usage is explained to trainee drivers. Bike lights have only recently evolved to allow those of average expenditure to compete with the car lights. There is no established protocol, and the beam patterns haven't been configured for the bike-on-road application.
If you want bike lights that show potholes as well as car lights, you may be surprised - almost all of them can. Next time you're in a car on an unlit road (preferably with a crappy surface), do an experiment:
drive at 25mph, and look at the road for those potholes and debris. You'll find you can't see as much detail as you would LIKE if you were on 2 wheels. Just the same as if you were riding with 'average' bike lights.
I often see bikes with lights BRIGHTER than the surrounding (dipped) car lights.
Something is out of whack with all this.
I have an IQ Fly which is not only lovely and bright, but can also be adjusted from 'dipped' to 'straight ahead' to 'sizzling retina.'
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Do you flash at all Rae?
No, I wear shorts on the bike. :D
The Vega is often on strobe with I am using them both. So a big hailde on full power and constant beam, and optionally the Vega on flah, both aimed straight forward.
You have to bear in mind that most of my riding is in London, where you need something approaching a searchlight to stand out in any way.
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You've put your finger on the problem, Rae. Before anyone starts condemning people for using lights that are inappropriately bright or aimed too far up, i think they ought to look at where they get used.
Yeah, if I'm in the sticks, a pair of non-flashing TLD-600s and some carefully aimed Solidlights set on steady is absolutely fine for any night time conditions. Anything more and I'm going to be very careful because a Dinotte or XR9 will piss off fellow riders and a halide would badly dazzle oncoming drivers whose night vision is important to me.
In town, all bets are off and I want frikkin' lasers, because Solidlights will just fade into the background noise and I'll be just another glint of light in the urban jungle. Not nearly good enough.
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The more street lighting and car lights that are around, the brighter I want my lights to be in order to stand out. The Dinotte 600l goes on fast strobe when approaching roundabouts and slow flash through towns. Out in the sticks it gets switched off, unless some brainless turd needs a quick burst to demonstrate to them the merits of dipping their own headlights.
EDIT: sort of cross posted Charlotte there
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If you want bike lights that show potholes as well as car lights, you may be surprised - almost all of them can.
I can only think that you have used a time machine and are replying from the year 2040 or something. Back where I am in 2008, many bike lights on the market barely light up anything at all, and only the really powerful ones can illuminate potholes that are several yards ahead. You need to see well ahead when cycling faster than 10 mph if you want time to react.
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Yeah, if I'm in the sticks, a pair of non-flashing TLD-600s and some carefully aimed Solidlights set on steady is absolutely fine for any night time conditions. Anything more and I'm going to be very careful because a Dinotte or XR9 will piss off fellow riders and a halide would badly dazzle oncoming drivers whose night vision is important to me.
In town, all bets are off and I want frikkin' lasers, because Solidlights will just fade into the background noise and I'll be just another glint of light in the urban jungle. Not nearly good enough.
Weird, I go exactly the opposite: in town I'm happy with a placeholder (a lumi with a glow ring is teh awesum), but in the sticks, I want Daylight In A Bag. But I ride mostly solo, and my sticks are very sticky...
There's no legal maximum for bike lights, so we are free to go as disco-tastic as we like.
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On rural roads, I want enough to see by.
In the city, I'll have a constant brightish light, a bright flashing light, which I change to constant for darker stretches, and my Knog flashing away.
The three of them are in an unusual configuration (Knog on the headtube; Cateyes over & under on the bars), which will not be immediately obvious what it is.
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Weird, I go exactly the opposite: in town I'm happy with a placeholder (a lumi with a glow ring is teh awesum), but in the sticks, I want Daylight In A Bag. But I ride mostly solo, and my sticks are very sticky...
Daylight inna bag is fun in the sticks, but it's not actually necessary for me as once my night vision develops, I can navigate quite well with only a moderate light. Certainly the Solidlights are more than adequate.
I notice that our most prolific night time rider, Mr Teethgrinder, manages quite well with a £10 Tesco LED torch.
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I'll use a relatively bright front light (Exposure Race Maxx on medium pointed at the ground in front of me), because that's the only way I'll be noticed at night with a lot of other visible distractions about.
I don't tend to use flashing lights, since I find them very hard on the eyes when cycling or driving behind them. They can also be very difficult to position correctly in an environment where there are no other visual cues, such as a dark country road.
On something like a FNRttC where there are other cyclists behind me, I'll try and just use two TL-LD1000s, with only half the LEDs turned on. Bright lights with new batteries are hard on the eyes, and with a FNRttC, 30+ cyclists with lights on are hard to miss anyway, you don't need something hyper-bright unless you get separated from the group (or are right at the back, which I was much of the last FNRttC, playing TEC).
Having said that, on the last FNRttC, when we stopped to deal with a puncture, I propped my bike up against the kerb and turned the Dinotte on with flash mode, which is not entirely dissimilar to a police light, you get a burst of mad flashing and then a gap. The few cars that did come along, slowed down almost immediately they saw the light, which was what I wanted with half a dozen plus cyclists standing around, and helping to fix the flat.
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Blip - I think you have got your thinking of when bright lights are of the most use, slightly back to front.
Very bright lights are the most use in the bright lights of a city - dimmer lights don't stand out against the background of car headlights, brakelights and streetlighting.
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Yes, I've noticed many cyclists in town coming towards me with just an LED, or flashing LED, on the handlebars. They are practically invisible with their hi-viz turned into a dull orange that's the same colour as the brick walls they're riding past and the little glimmer of LED hidden amongst the car headlights and bouncing reflections.
I have 3 lighting requirements.
Evening commute - BRIGHT. I'll quite happily run the solidlights in flashing mode with all the road signs flashing back at me. I can see where I'm going with no lights, so only need something to make me seen. Judging from the way cars pull over as I overtake, they've seen me all right.
Pootling. Anything legal.
Long rides (Audax, Blue moon, etc) BRIGHT. If I find I'm on a long dowhill and can freewheel at 30-40mph then I want the lights to enable me to do so. I don't want to lengthen the ride time simply so I can ride by a little light.
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I think lighting enough to be seen by is adequate where there is street lighting, take for example a Cateye EL-530 or two. I can't see the point in lights that are painfully bright. I've seen a few oncoming cyclists (at night) with them angled to highly - and they are not only a nuisance to motorists, they are a nuisance to other cyclists too!
If your average moton doesn't see an EL-530, all anything super-bright and death ray like is going to do is dazzle or panic them, possibly resulting in erratic or unpredictable driving. Or, if the motorist is so minded, give them something to drive at.
Don't get me wrong, on an unlit road, I'm all for having something brighter to see by.
Yebbut - it's bikes with duff batteries or no lights at all that scare me most. Lights angled up is dumb and annoying - but no more than that.
Personally, in town, I favour one or two steady (not flashing) lights, front and back. Lit surface area of the lamps may be more important than intensity for being seen. In urban traffic, being seen is just about being noticed in the first place, but also about being visible while being passed by vehicles (it does happen) without distracting the driver. "Steady" rather than "flash" gives a safer reference point on a moving object to the driver of another object moving close to and slightly faster than the first.
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I like bright lights. In fact I feel a lot safer commuting in the winter than I do in the summer.
But I will agree with Blip's comment about poorly aimed lights. I come across cyclists who for some reason have their lights focused across the road into the on coming traffic. What on earth for? And it tends to piss me off greatly when the worst dazzling offenders are other cyclists.
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I notice that our most prolific night time rider, Mr Teethgrinder, manages quite well with a £10 Tesco LED torch
It's a very impressive £10 torch and way beyond the EL530 et al.
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Interestingly most of those on here talking about irritation from other cyclists' bright lights have made no comment on that irritation affecting their own riding. That means to me that it's just irritation, and that the other cyclist has done a good job of being seen and *noticed*.
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I was run off the road by a Cateye Stadium once, it was so bright I missed the turn and went into the hedge. But only once, and it was back in the dawn of halide when people hadn't learned to be polite (ie, they hadn't been dazzled themselves).
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I'm in the flashing + steady front and rear brigade, with an IQ Fly on the front and the rest old style (i.e. not dethray) LEDs. My theory, FWIW is that the steady front is supposed to be enough to see by whilst the others are to be seen by (and to satisfy the legal requirement). The dark country lanes and well-lit streets are fine, though, even a pleasure with decent lights. The biggest problems I have are with:
1. The mad oxford cyclists who believe that a red (or orange or green) weak little flashing LED is adequate for the FRONT of a bike in a dark street ???
2. Streets with the normal old sodium lamps. Because these are buggerall use for dimly lit - or fast-moving things, they exacerbate or encourage the lighting arms-race and hence the "spangle". It becomes a question then of whether to join that race or not, which would mean upgrading to stronger flashing LEDs ... and contributing to the "spangle".
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[ I'll quite happily run the solidlights in flashing mode with all the road signs flashing back at me.
One of the joys of cycling is having an entire High Street flashing on and off using Solidlights.
Usually even pedestrians turn around, expecting a Police car I expect. For being seen I doubt much comes close to Solidlights on flash mode.
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[ I'll quite happily run the solidlights in flashing mode with all the road signs flashing back at me.
One of the joys of cycling is having an entire High Street flashing on and off using Solidlights.
Usually even pedestrians turn around, expecting a Police car I expect. For being seen I doubt much comes close to Solidlights on flash mode.
IMO Dinnottes wipe the floor with Solidlights in terms of eye catching mindfuckingly attention getting flash modes.
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IMO Dinnottes wipe the floor with Solidlights in terms of eye catching mindfuckingly attention getting flash modes.
You boys and your toys ... ;)
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I rune twin 530s, and sometimes when in the mood I have them AND a twin rechargeable Smart set up. In my area, it is handy for tilting slightly upto hint at oncoming cars that they might like to "dip"
Yes, I know what the HC says about that!
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This is one reason why I like the Fenix flashlight mount. I can either nudge it to point away from oncoming traffic, or towards them.
I usually nudge away at first, then if they don't get the hint, nudge it towards them.
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I've always gone with the glow-worm option. I can think of two instances where I really hate the death-ray boys.
First is when One is proceeding quickly at night and a well lit fellow Randonneur gets on one's wheel. I can now see none of the road ahead due to the halo of dazzlingly bright white light surrounding a huge black 'Damon-shaped' hole. Attempts to sprint off into the night are hampered by now invisible potholes.
Scenario B is experienced on 'out and back' rides, PBP and LEL. One is proceeding homeward and other riders are in a group coming towards one, they have all these really bright lights and then they look at you with their super-bright LED head-torch. Cue excursion onto verge.
Damon.
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Interestingly most of those on here talking about irritation from other cyclists' bright lights have made no comment on that irritation affecting their own riding. That means to me that it's just irritation, and that the other cyclist has done a good job of being seen and *noticed*.
Please see Damon's post. I can corroborate his experiences.
Also (as posted just days ago) missed 2 MTBers by inches because all I could see was their lights. I thought they were 1/2 a mile away.
So no, this isn't "passive" irritation. Well, not always. Part of my view on this is that the "arms race" does no-one any favours in the long run - I agree this is hard to prove.
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I'd be among the first to agree that super bright lights are not appropriate on group rides, most of all taillights. As for too-bright headlights behind you, a bit of conversation with the offender will almost certainly solve that problem quickly and easily. Bright head torches, that's just inconsiderate.
The rest of the time, for urban and non-urban riding, I disagree.
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As for too-bright headlights behind you, a bit of conversation with the offender will almost certainly solve that problem quickly and easily. Bright head torches, that's just inconsiderate.
My Portuguese has always been poor and sometimes the people following have a tremendous amount of experience and status, and criticism would be rude, all you can do is try to get them in front and hope to pass them on a moonlit section when one has left the shade of the trees.
Damon.
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I notice that our most prolific night time rider, Mr Teethgrinder, manages quite well with a £10 Tesco LED torch
It's a very impressive £10 torch and way beyond the EL530 et al.
Is that the 5W LED torch? Can't find it listed anywhere.
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Interestingly most of those on here talking about irritation from other cyclists' bright lights have made no comment on that irritation affecting their own riding. That means to me that it's just irritation, and that the other cyclist has done a good job of being seen and *noticed*.
I rather think 'irritation' is shorthand for incandescent (sic) with a mixture of rage and envy that on the one hand I'm being dazzled by twats running poorly set lights and on the other hand that I'd quite like a set of lights like that myself.
So yes, the selfish b****ds have done a good job in being seen and *noticed*.
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I have a cheap (because a new one had come out) cateye on the bars. It isn't quite bright enough to see sticks and holes in dark lanes at 20km/h, but scatters wide enough to get me seen and balances well with my helmet mounted Fenix. I use that on low-ish beam in town: i don't need it to see by and flashing it up at a car has always got me noticed so far. On lanes I go to a brighter setting. I've yet to have the luxury of night vision unspoiled by car lights (astronomy experience tells me that takes 20 minutes to fully develop). My rides have very mixed road lighting and speeds so easy changes in brightness and how far ahead I point (but always down unless mimicing a flashing car headlight) were part of my plan.
On the back I have two pretty cheap lights, for redundancy and because I think two lights are more noticeable than one bigger light. I'd have another light on the front if I could fit it on the bars.
I don't use flashing lights as I find it hard to judge speed and distance so well with them, so I assume others do too.
To that I add a hi-viz / scotchlight vest, ankle bands and wrist bands, which helps on the being seen front. The ankle bands do roughly what a flashing light does, I think.
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I notice that our most prolific night time rider, Mr Teethgrinder, manages quite well with a £10 Tesco LED torch
It's a very impressive £10 torch and way beyond the EL530 et al.
Is that the 5W LED torch? Can't find it listed anywhere.
Andy,
I bought one at YOUR local branch, couple of months ago!
(It's a horrible place, but stocks a lot of these useful bits and bobs)
Online info was a bit ambiguous.
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First is when One is proceeding quickly at night and a well lit fellow Randonneur gets on one's wheel. I can now see none of the road ahead due to the halo of dazzlingly bright white light surrounding a huge black 'Damon-shaped' hole. Attempts to sprint off into the night are hampered by now invisible potholes.
Scenario B is experienced on 'out and back' rides, PBP and LEL. One is proceeding homeward and other riders are in a group coming towards one, they have all these really bright lights and then they look at you with their super-bright LED head-torch. Cue excursion onto verge.
Agree absolutely. This is why I cannot go on group rides at night. I think the problem is that lights most suited to offroad use (i.e cone shaped beams) are being used on the road. Then, because so much light is wasted, even more power is needed to get decent penetration. I use an old 5W halogen bulb in an old E3 housing which gives a long narrow beam (not to everybodies taste) but more to the point with a cutoff shape suited to the road. This enables me to ride at about 20 mph (32 kph for those who don't do imperial) in the lanes and I seldom get home from an evening ride with less than 30mph showing as a max. I think that in towns and cities a brighter light is needed because of the competition from motor vehicles, shops etc; but in dark lanes I do not think so much is needed.
I think things will catch up with us. If too many people use very bright lights with no control to the beam pattern then I think there will be a clampdown. Imagine what the roads would be like if motor vehicles had lights with simple conical beams; pretty dire I'd say.
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Elephant in the room.
Fogwits.
The brightness of a cycle light is swamped by the brash presentation given by a flirting Fogwit.
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I notice that our most prolific night time rider, Mr Teethgrinder, manages quite well with a £10 Tesco LED torch
It's a very impressive £10 torch and way beyond the EL530 et al.
Is that the 5W LED torch? Can't find it listed anywhere.
Andy,
I bought one at YOUR local branch, couple of months ago!
(It's a horrible place, but stocks a lot of these useful bits and bobs)
Online info was a bit ambiguous.
Insulta ma Tescos and... ;D Horrible, but useful at least. Waitrose is good, like shopping in a library, but more pricey, and without the deals tokens... ;)
Are we talking about the head torch, if not, how does Mr Teethgrinder attach it, I wonder?
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The only time I've been seriously annoyed by someone's death-ray front light was just after the final control on the 2007 Chiltern-Cotswold. Fortunately, we soon came to a hill and Mr O'Tea buggered off into the distance :P
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Are we talking about the head torch, if not, how does Mr Teethgrinder attach it, I wonder?
No, it's the AA torch he uses at the moment. Ziptied to a recycled front light bracket from a long-lost Cateye style light. Looks like it works really well.
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Roughly equivalent to the Fenix, I believe?
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The only time I've been seriously annoyed by someone's death-ray front light was just after the final control on the 2007 Chiltern-Cotswold. Fortunately, we soon came to a hill and Mr O'Tea buggered off into the distance :P
Surely not my Solidlights with their "gentle wash of light" [TM Mal Volio]?
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Roughly equivalent to the Fenix, I believe?
Zipperhead and I were using our torches at the firework display we went to last week and the Tesco unit isn't nearly as good as the Fenix.
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Roughly equivalent to the Fenix, I believe?
Zipperhead and I were using our torches at the firework display we went to last week and the Tesco unit isn't nearly as good as the Fenix.
Yes, I heard they were only almost as good, now you're doing a great job of making me feel OK on my £40 each purchase of the Fenix's!!!
Now I just want some airlites, LOL.
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I think the Tesco 3W AA is inferior to either light on my twin 6W Smart lights.
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[There's no legal maximum for bike lights, so we are free to go as disco-tastic as we like.
Really? I remember buying a pair of Sigmas for my Cyclo-x in France just a few years ago and the brighter of the two had an EC type note to say it was not permitted on the road. It was VERY bright.
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AFAIK there are no restrictions on power for bike lights in BRITAIN, but there certainly are in Germany. See, for example http://www.supernova-lights.com/shop/show_product.php?products_id=107 (http://www.supernova-lights.com/shop/show_product.php?products_id=107)
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I've got a Smart something or other with twin lamps. They throw out an enormous amount of light on full whack, but I'm not sure it's that annoying piercing type of beam. I've noticed motorists nearly always dip their headlights when I'm using those on country lanes - perhaps because they think I'm on a motorbike which automatically moves me up the food chain significantly in their minds.
Those painfully bright lights with a really concentrated beam can be a pain...
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Dinottes. Get one. They melt cars! ;D
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Off on the Fnrtcc tonite. I expect there will be the usual arms race lights in the bunch. A dinotte behind usually means cycling into a black hole. A dinotte rear light in front really is a problem as it is completely blinding. And as for the inconsiderates who will leave flashers on while riding in group...
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In these cases I'm a fan of being upfront and open about the problem it presents, rather than storing up bile to be vented later on an internet forum.
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In these cases I'm a fan of being upfront and open about the problem it presents, rather than storing up bile to be vented later on an internet forum.
Agreed. One poster commented that I had cycled past him at great speed (for me!) on one road. I admitted, good humouredly, that his rear light had been burning my eyes and I was trying to get past it. He pointed it down a bit more. Problem solved, everybody happy. No need for bile etc. It didn't upset me really, it was more of a challenge ;D
I hope my flashing Cateye doesn't upset anyone (it's not annoyingly bright, at least I don't think other people's are), but I often find myself cycling along almost alone on dark roads on the FNRttCs (not the fastest, but not the slowest so as to be with the TEC either) so tend to leave one on constant and one on flashing.
And I always quite liked being near people with the super front lights, except they were always the bloody fast ones too so I was usually nowhere near them ;D
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In these cases I'm a fan of being upfront and open about the problem it presents, rather than storing up bile to be vented later on an internet forum.
Actually I just go and buy bigger lights. I like the lighting arms race - it is quite entertaining.
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In these cases I'm a fan of being upfront and open about the problem it presents, rather than storing up bile to be vented later on an internet forum.
Actually I just go and buy bigger lights. I like the lighting arms race - it is quite entertaining.
Don't you mean enlightening? ;D ;D
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Dinottes have Full, Half and 1/8th settings. The latter is quite fine for riding in a group.
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What I find strange is the number of people who think that LED light batteries should be almost everlasting, and so leave them in even when the superbright output has diminished to a dim glow.
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What I find strange is the number of people who think that LED light batteries should be almost everlasting, and so leave them in even when the superbright output has diminished to a dim glow.
Reminds me - must buy new death beam batteries for tonite!
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It's worth noting that the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations specifically prohibit lamps 'used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using the road'.
Now, while it may very well be true that some car headlights (especially the HID ones) may break this rule, I'm unconvinced that that gives us as cyclists carte blanche to dazzle other road users.
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It's worth noting that the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations specifically prohibit lamps 'used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using the road'.
Now, while it may very well be true that some car headlights (especially the HID ones) may break this rule, I'm unconvinced that that gives us as cyclists carte blanche to dazzle other road users.
I agree, however, I will dazzle them until they start paying attention and not doing the moronic and dangerous pulling out, nosing out, intimidating and not caring driving that they are prohibited from doing by the HC.
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I've never been dazzled by cycle lights while driving. Has anyone else?
I use the brightest lights I can afford and I now have LED envy after seeing Mike's Airbike: my 200 lumen front Dinotte seems puny in comparison. But I'm leaving my retina-burning rear Dinotte at home tonight for the FNRttC. I wouldn't want to annoy anyone. ::-)
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What I find strange is the number of people who think that LED light batteries should be almost everlasting, and so leave them in even when the superbright output has diminished to a dim glow.
It's annoyingly easy to do (if you are me). I have to confess I managed to do this on the Golden Pootle. I was so busy fettling other bits of the bike the night before that I completely forgot to charge the batteries after a week of commuting, and Jurek kindly pointed out that my light wasn't looking up to much. Needless to say the batteries went in the charger on my return home and I've now got a second back light so I can forget to charge that one up too ::-)
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But I'm leaving my retina-burning rear Dinotte at home tonight for the FNRttC. I wouldn't want to annoy anyone. ::-)
It's all right as long as you point it down a bit, innit ;)
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I have an IQ Fly which is not only lovely and bright, but can also be adjusted from 'dipped' to 'straight ahead' to 'sizzling retina.'
These sounds like wonderful devices (especially the DIPPED idea). Hopefully they, and similar lamps, will spread, and the wall-of-retina-burn devices will diminish (or melt!).
When I bought my (last gen) Dinotte I was keen on the multiple settings, but sadly the switch is a BIT fiddly, more so with gloves on. So it's not yet my perfect light. I don't think the beam is at all shaped, so that's another minus.
As others have suggested, i know I'm guilty of forgetting the different environments other members are riding in. I HAVE ridden in urban jungle, but it's very rare. I sympathise if you are put at risk by SMIDSY every mile, instead of once-a-year. Often this doesn't come across in our posts - we just say I Need This Kind of Lighting. I Hate This Other Kind
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Likewise if you ride a lot alone on unlit roads, please consider the problems of a rider who might one day be just in front/behind you.
(I once met a commuter with a mega-light and Stupidly-Big-Gears. This meant that his searchlight swayed back and forth, enough to make me actually nauseous. I was SLIGHTLY too slow to get away from him, so I dropped back. Then his rear light got me ... )
Like NSTN, I often drop off the back of groups at night on unlit roads. This tends to work OK, because:
- night speeds are often slower, so you don't need drafting to stick together.
- the mega-lights up ahead often give you nice advanced warning of hazards.
- you get a better peaceful night-riding experience.
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Certainly the Solidlights are more than adequate.
I notice that our most prolific night time rider, Mr Teethgrinder, manages quite well with a £10 Tesco LED torch.
I used a Solidlight last year. It was good, until you got over 20mph. Then you couldn't really see far enough up the road. It was the best in it's day. But it's day never lasted very long. I was very annoyed that this £160 light never even lasted one year.
I also use a Blackburn X6. I really bought it for my mountain bike. It's a bit low powered compared to most off road lights, but is a good compromise for value for money, run time and brightness. I only use it on my hack bike, not my Dave Yates, as the battery is rough on the paintwork.
I'm running some Tesco torches at the moment. They are much better than the Solidlight. I'll do 30mph in a country lane without my fingers poised over the brake levers. They are the best value for money lights I've ever had. But they aren't "cycle lights" so they would be*. The biggest drawback is the low runtime. I use about 3 pairs of Lithium batteries on a 600 at the moment, so that's quite expensive and a bit of a nuisance. To save batteries, I can use my Smart Polaris II when I don't need so much light and save my Tesco torches for descents or whatever.
I'm planning on wiring a Tesco torch to my Schmidt to see what happens. Also, I might try and find a good Li-Ion battery and wire it to a pair of torches for a good battery light set up. For £10 a go, they are worth experimenting on. They seem reliable enough. I may even buy a D cell 3W torch. After all, I used to have two Ever Ready lamps on my handlebars when I started Audaxing, so that would be a weight 4 D cells. Then buy some lithium D cell batteries if I can find any.
* I agree with what Jack Eason told me. They put a picture of a bicycle on the package and put the price up. That's why I never buy bidons from bike shops. they are much cheaper in sports shops. Especially in sales.
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I used a Solidlight last year. It was good, until you got over 20mph. Then you couldn't really see far enough up the road. It was the best in it's day. But it's day never lasted very long. I was very annoyed that this £160 light never even lasted one year.......
I'm running some Tesco torches at the moment. They are much better than the Solidlight. I'll do 30mph in a country lane without my fingers poised over the brake levers.
depends what you like. I've never had a problem descending with the Solidlights, whereas narrow-beam bright lights really scare me on fast descents
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I used a Solidlight last year. It was good, until you got over 20mph. Then you couldn't really see far enough up the road. It was the best in it's day. But it's day never lasted very long. I was very annoyed that this £160 light never even lasted one year.
I also use a Blackburn X6. I really bought it for my mountain bike. It's a bit low powered compared to most off road lights, but is a good compromise for value for money, run time and brightness. I only use it on my hack bike, not my Dave Yates, as the battery is rough on the paintwork.
I'm running some Tesco torches at the moment. They are much better than the Solidlight. I'll do 30mph in a country lane without my fingers poised over the brake levers. They are the best value for money lights I've ever had. But they aren't "cycle lights" so they would be*. The biggest drawback is the low runtime. I use about 3 pairs of Lithium batteries on a 600 at the moment, so that's quite expensive and a bit of a nuisance. To save batteries, I can use my Smart Polaris II when I don't need so much light and save my Tesco torches for descents or whatever.
I'm planning on wiring a Tesco torch to my Schmidt to see what happens. Also, I might try and find a good Li-Ion battery and wire it to a pair of torches for a good battery light set up. For £10 a go, they are worth experimenting on. They seem reliable enough. I may even buy a D cell 3W torch. After all, I used to have two Ever Ready lamps on my handlebars when I started Audaxing, so that would be a weight 4 D cells. Then buy some lithium D cell batteries if I can find any.
I have Smart Polaris II lights and think they're great; very compact & bright. I'll take a look at the Tesco torches.
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What I find strange is the number of people who think that LED light batteries should be almost everlasting, and so leave them in even when the superbright output has diminished to a dim glow.
It's annoyingly easy to do (if you are me). I have to confess I managed to do this on the Golden Pootle. I was so busy fettling other bits of the bike the night before that I completely forgot to charge the batteries after a week of commuting, and Jurek kindly pointed out that my light wasn't looking up to much. Needless to say the batteries went in the charger on my return home and I've now got a second back light so I can forget to charge that one up too ::-)
Nstn, sounds your lights get rather more use than mine :-[ So don't worry, I'll let you off ;)
Andy
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depends what you like. I've never had a problem descending with the Solidlights, whereas narrow-beam bright lights really scare me on fast descents
I never had a problem descending with a Solidlight. It was better than what I had before. I remeber the days of fillament bulbs when I avoided lanes when cycling to and from events. It's just that I feel more relaxed when I can see further up the road and dont need to concentrate so hard. The beam of the Tesco torch will easily illuminate the width of a country lane from about 3 meters off your front wheel onwards.
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They put a picture of a bicycle on the package and put the price up. That's why I never buy bidons from bike shops. they are much cheaper in sports shops. Especially in sales.
You do have to hunt around a bit though. It can be confusing looking at a water bottle and thinking "Is this a bidon I see before me?"
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That's why I never buy bidons from bike shops. they are much cheaper in sports shops. Especially in sales.
Blag them for free from the Spanners at the end of Tour de France stages.
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That's why I never buy bidons from bike shops. they are much cheaper in sports shops. Especially in sales.
Blag them for free from the Spanners at the end of Tour de France stages.
Indeed. Although I have singularly failed to get to the end of a Tour de France stage for free!
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My main lamp is a Lumi halide. Most of my commute is unlit A road or out in the sticks. I use it in town as well, and on an unlit shared use path. On the unlit shared use path I quite often get sworn at by other cyclists, even though I dip the beam right down on this bit of the commute. I'ts angled very slightly to the left, so am pretty sure it doesn't dazzle drivers.
This thread is making me feel bad :(
Mind you, the last bloke who was really sweary had a feeble green LED on the front so I suspect he went from being able to see his front tyre to being able to see nothing at all as I approached.
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I bagged a Tesco torch yesterday, they've gone up to £12 now. It fits my lockblock holder (which normally has a Fenix P3D in it) a treat.
Most impressed and I do love a bargain. I'm going to get another lockblock for the Tesco so I should be well sorted.
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I bagged a Tesco torch yesterday, they've gone up to £12 now. It fits my lockblock holder (which normally has a Fenix P3D in it) a treat.
Most impressed and I do love a bargain. I'm going to get another lockblock for the Tesco so I should be well sorted.
EH!? ??? :D
Psst!
Wassa lockblock holder?
Watch the battery runtime on that torch.
Keep your eyes peeled in Tescos for the Lithium batteries. They put the price down to under £4 for 4 sometimes. Christmas is often a good time to get battery bargains.
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Gandalf, I'd like to know what a lockblock holder is too. :)
I got a Tesco torch tonight £10. Whoa - it's bright :thumbsup: The bulb is a Cree (3W) like the Fenix. I've attached it to a temporary bracket; look forward to giving it a go.
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Gandalf, I'd like to know what a lockblock holder is too. :)
A lockblock is basically a rubber block with curved bits in it, and a couple of velcro straps. It lets you mount a torch onto something at right angles to it, eg your handlebars. They are actually designed for using in sets of 3 to hold a U-lock, but I think they are more popular for torches.
Cost about £7 each here: TwoFish Lockblocks MTB Flashlight Holder - FenixTorch.co.uk (http://www.fenixtorch.co.uk/led_torches/lockblock.html)
Or $16 for 3 here (free postage): http://www.4sevens.com/index.php?cPath=25_66
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Gandalf, I'd like to know what a lockblock holder is too. :)
A lockblock is basically a rubber block with curved bits in it, and a couple of velcro straps. It lets you mount a torch onto something at right angles to it, eg your handlebars. They are actually designed for using in sets of 3 to hold a U-lock, but I think they are more popular for torches.
Cost about £7 each here: TwoFish Lockblocks MTB Flashlight Holder - FenixTorch.co.uk (http://www.fenixtorch.co.uk/led_torches/lockblock.html)
Or $16 for 3 here (free postage): http://www.4sevens.com/index.php?cPath=25_66
Thanks - yes, just the trick. :)