Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => Topic started by: frankly frankie on 11 December, 2018, 10:31:09 am
-
I don't think the connection with OCD is that obvious...
As far as I am aware, OCD is about "geographical cols" and it doesn't promote going up and down the same col n times... I think you can only claim one col 2 or 3 times in one year. In OCD there is also a minimum of 100 vertical metres for a col to be counted which would rule out half of the climbs people use for Everesting.
Off-topic, but AUK have neglected OCD pretty badly, since merging with them in 2013. Even the several Arrivee articles with a clear OCD interest are not properly flagged as such in the magazine - with a logo in the index page or by the article heading.
AUK could incorporate OCD claims into the events listings and results, much as is already done with AAA. Any event which includes one or more OCD claims, would have the claims total listed as an event attribute (like AAA points) and any member finishing such an event would be automatically credited with an OCD claim for that day. That would be several Scottish and Welsh events, and a few in northern England and Devon.
-
I include the OCD points for each col in the description of my event, but an automatic claim would be great
http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/19-131/
-
I just wish the OCD was called something else in this country. As someone with a very close family member whose life has been totally destroyed by what OCD usually means in the English-speaking world, I can't help my heart sinking a little every time I pick up my favourite magazine, the magazine that reflects a major part of what I do to escape the results of the condition. It wouldn't be a problem in France, the disease is called something else there.
It's just a horrid coincidence and one I don't expect anything to be done about - indeed, I sincerely hope I'm the only one getting the magazine who needs to feel like this.
Peter
-
For those who don't know what the OCD to which you refer is, what is it?
-
Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.
-
I think he means the other one: http://www.aukweb.net/ocd/
-
Ah, ok. I was surprised!
-
Off-topic, but AUK have neglected OCD pretty badly, since merging with them in 2013. Even the several Arrivee articles with a clear OCD interest are not properly flagged as such in the magazine - with a logo in the index page or by the article heading.
Maybe there just isn't a huge amount of interest. IIRC the "merger" happened because Ordre des Cols Durs was almost entirely inactive. I didn't support the "merger" then, because it felt like a bunch of people who didn't want to put the work in expecting others to do it for them. And if the people running the association couldn't be bothered, why should anyone else be?
-
AFAIK the OCD membership that transferred into AUK at that time (ie were given free AUK membership as part of the merger) have almost all lapsed. That is 100% AUK's fault for not doing more to accommodate them.
OTOH, the OCD claims process has since reached record levels (AUK members being given access to OCD as part of the merger) to a level completely unprecedented before the merger took place.
And there have been a lot of OCD-worthy articles in Arrivee (which is really what OCD was all about - good stories of cycloclimbing) - just not always credited as such. That is my main complaint - Arrivee should be more OCD-aware.
-
As someone who has worked for a mental health charity and been doing audaxes for 12 years, OCD means only one thing - obsessive compulsive disorder. It's an unfortunate acronym for Audax UK to be using.
-
As someone who has worked for a mental health charity and been doing audaxes for 12 years, OCD means only one thing - obsessive compulsive disorder. It's an unfortunate acronym for Audax UK to be using.
Sponsorship from the Banque Nationale de Paris always causes me to double take because of it's UK political context.
There are plenty of acronyms which have a meanings where knowing the context it's being used in affects meaning.
-
As someone who has worked for a mental health charity and been doing audaxes for 12 years, OCD means only one thing - obsessive compulsive disorder. It's an unfortunate acronym for Audax UK to be using.
That's an unfortunate situation - you have my sympathy, as do Peter and any other members closely affected by these things, but I don't persoanlly think it should be changed.
There is a silver lining - this thread suggests that most AUKs have finally got their hilarious OCD jokes out of their system.
-
Abbreviations and acronyms are bound to have more than one meaning and we were discouraged from using them without explaining their intended meaning the first time they were used.
I think this is the only safe and inoffensive way of using them.
I don't think OCD 'belongs' to mental health exclusively any more than any other abbreviation.
-
And, as noted on the AUK OCD page:
"Note, the OCD is not to be confused with Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, though as with long-distance cycling in general, there may be similarities." ::-)
http://www.aukweb.net/ocd/ (http://www.aukweb.net/ocd/)
-
As I said above, I'm possibly in a minority of one amongst readers of Arrivee and was expressing bthe regret I feel. However, whilst it is technically correct to say that OCD doesn't belong exclusively to mental health terminology, it is absolutely indisputable that that will be the first connotation that members of the English-speaking world will have, including most cyclists. I wouldn't mind betting that many readers of Arrivee have no idea that in the context of the magazine it stands for Ordre Des Cols Durs and is French.
Wilky - yes, that's really tasteful, isn't it!
-
Obsessive Cycling Disorder
-
As I said above, I'm possibly in a minority of one amongst readers of Arrivee and was expressing bthe regret I feel. However, whilst it is technically correct to say that OCD doesn't belong exclusively to mental health terminology, it is absolutely indisputable that that will be the first connotation that members of the English-speaking world will have, including most cyclists. I wouldn't mind betting that many readers of Arrivee have no idea that in the context of the magazine it stands for Ordre Des Cols Durs and is French.
Wilky - yes, that's really tasteful, isn't it!
Personally I'd like it if the medical profession could rename the condition. They don't use Shouty Sweary Syndrome.
And yes, that statement needs to go.
-
I wouldn't mind betting that many readers of Arrivee have no idea that in the context of the magazine it stands for Ordre Des Cols Durs and is French.
Which brings us neatly round to (and can be rectified by) the point the OP makes. More advertisement (in Arrivee articles' headers where relevant) that 'OCD' in AudaxUK (and in wider cycling) terms is climbing cols: lots of them. And where possible (and for the first time in any article), use the full name: "Ordre des Cols Durs".
-
We joined the OCD to liven up out European cycle tours, I imagine the lower limit of 300m made you search out bigger climbs. Would like to find out why its lowered to 200m and if it still needs a vertical difference of 100m. Don't think that in the UK people will be able to submit decent claims. We have never claimed any UK passes. Audax is about distance not climbing, note that the route sheet is just a guide its the controls that matter. AAA events can be done missing out hills. That's the problem.
-
I've not got it in front of me, but my recollection is 300m, or 200m from sea level on an island, hence I could claim Arran earlier this year. I wouldn't count Great Britain as an island for that purpose.
-
Now that we are almost out of Europe, we cannot be classed as an island. The UK is the mainland and the islands so I suppose its back
to the 300m lower limit. I do miss my little certificate from the French. They saved my running total when the everyone's total dissappeared
-
Audax is about distance not climbing, note that the route sheet is just a guide its the controls that matter. AAA events can be done missing out hills. That's the problem.
If an AAA event (advisory route) can be ridden "missing out the hills" then the route planning is flawed or the rider is prepared to ride significantly (and not beneficially) further to avoid the climbs/descents. Perhaps you could suggest a couple of examples? I work on the basis that riding an extra km is worth avoiding 40m of climb (and vice versa) ceteris paribus. Quality of road/surface for the downhill is often a moderating factor when choosing a hillier option.
-
Please tell how AAA and advisory route works. If you don't do the set route how can you claim the AAA points are they are based on the climbing. And it's a F........ U to the person running the Audax. Long gone are the days of following the route. Sad people sitting on the computer looking for the line of least resistance.
-
<snip>
Long gone are the days of following the route. Sad people sitting on the computer looking for the line of least resistance.
I'm pretty sure that isn't the case - the vast majority (typically well over 90% on large events) follow the route given to them by the organiser. Often the figure is 100%.
(Your "sad people" comment is really rather ... bad form. IMHO. It certainly doesn't add anything to the discussion. )
-
Perhaps rides down south usually follow the route🤔
-
We joined the OCD to liven up out European cycle tours, I imagine the lower limit of 300m made you search out bigger climbs. Would like to find out why its lowered to 200m and if it still needs a vertical difference of 100m. Don't think that in the UK people will be able to submit decent claims. We have never claimed any UK passes. Audax is about distance not climbing, note that the route sheet is just a guide its the controls that matter. AAA events can be done missing out hills. That's the problem.
That's why I really dont have any enthusiasm for AAA as an organiser, its normally reasonably straightforward to ensure distance integrity but the climbing equivalent is far more problematic.
Most events (even in Scotland with our sparser population and road network) will present folk with quite a few longer-but-flatter options that the hill averse will consider and I know that folk riding my events have taken this approach, as they have told me at the finish.
So I've no idea what route folk have taken and adding in umpteen extra controls just to ensure the integrity of AAA detracts from an event. As a result I believe it preferable generally not have any AAA at all.
-
Ultimately you want to avoid the AAA champion being somebody who avoids hills in AAA events... but to my knowledge this has never happened.
All the other AAA related awards are little more than breadcrumbs, so who cares?
Most seriously hilly routes don't have a flat option, you can maybe avoid a climb, but it means you have to do a different one
-
Please tell how AAA and advisory route works. If you don't do the set route how can you claim the AAA points are they are based on the climbing. And it's a F........ U to the person running the Audax. Long gone are the days of following the route. Sad people sitting on the computer looking for the line of least resistance.
Thank you for that question/comment/assessment.
Nearly all AUK BR rides have an advisory route. In UK we are lucky to have both scenery and an excellent network of minor roads (I appreciate this latter element is not the case north of the Clyde/Forth plain, Ronnie). Some hillier ones will have some AAA points associated with them. From @Manotea's draft Regulations text:
"Calendar and Permanent events. The routes are evaluated for AAA points when they are registered with Audax UK and the AAA tariff included in the published event listing. AAA points are allocated for validated Brevets automatically, i.e., no claim is required."
Riders ride from the start through the controls in numerical order gaining PoP and finish. Riders who've completed the ride are noted as such on the results and awarded AAA points. ". . . how can you claim the AAA points . . . ?" No claim required.
"it's a F........ U to the person running the Audax" Frankly the organiser has other concerns than 'worrying' about riders slavishly and unerringly following the route (as per routesheet). As I said a well planned route makes the hillier (routesheet) option the best one and anyone choosing to take a climbing-avoidance detour should be at a significant disadvantage. If the route does not 'force' this then the route may need an 'info' control inserted. Or the organiser can declare the route mandatory (eg Mille Cymru 2018). I invited @salar55 to identify "a couple of examples" of AAA events which offer flatter sections which would take a similar time.
"Long gone are the days of following the route." What Matt says. Most riders are content to ride the route as given to them. A few (like me) enjoy looking at the route. I make sure I understand it and can navigate it using a marked up sheet(s) torn from a road atlas (without electronic support). Many enjoy just getting a route which has been planned by another and riding it (a proportion not really knowing where they are going or where they've been). I think salar55 likes gpx files and doesn't actually navigate he just obeys. By the way, I consider, when detouring, that I am no longer on the suggested route (which has been subject to a rudimentary risk-assessment) and ride accordingly.
"Sad people sitting on the computer looking for the line of least resistance." I thoroughly enjoy maps and routes and computer applications eg Ride with GPS allow one to look at different options (for example from Paisley to Inveraray). Planning our Easter Arrow route has been a pleasure. Often it is not 'the least resistance' I seek - see below - (but it is on the Easter Arrow!).
I look for options as part of my preparation for a randonnee. I enjoy riding with others but also enjoy seeing if a variation I've discovered (and prepared) is faster or slower, and this is best done if I'm riding with others when I deliberately divert. Some of these options may be a bit longer and less climb. Others may involve more climbing and less distance (Will more AAA points be awarded? No. Do I care? No.) Or the types of roads may come into play (either to take or to avoid) and the time of day I'll be riding that section has a bearing. I like to include a bit of (cycle legal) rough stuff on every ride I do. But I know many others will not expect anything but tarmac and so organisers avoid routing along 'rough' highways (eg the off-road sections of the Fosse Way). Whether it is dark matters to me: navigation (using a map) is harder and riskier in the dark even with preparation (I appreciate that many's backlit screens don't care). So for me complex = more care and therefore slower.
When these minor diversions work it's great. When they don't I try to analyse why. But this freedom enhances the tapestry of my rides and increases the subjective level of audaciousness, and makes me 'happy'.
Though the philosophy I've tried to explain is not the same as yours salar55, I hope yours makes you as 'happy'.
-
Perhaps rides down south usually follow the route🤔
Down south? I'm 51.6'N !!!
"AAA events can be done missing out hills. That's the problem."
That's why I really dont have any enthusiasm for AAA as an organiser, its normally reasonably straightforward to ensure distance integrity but the climbing equivalent is far more problematic.
Most events (even in Scotland with our sparser population and road network) will present folk with quite a few longer-but-flatter options that the hill averse will consider and I know that folk riding my events have taken this approach, as they have told me at the finish.
So I've no idea what route folk have taken and adding in umpteen extra controls just to ensure the integrity of AAA detracts from an event. As a result I believe it preferable generally not have any AAA at all.
Yes, I'd agree with that, from the Organiser viewpoint.
But I can't say it troubles me much. In fact I can't get excited about any AAA discussion* - I see AAA as an interesting sideshow. Distance IS the main thing (as Salar55 says), at least until someone invents a new category of event!
OCD seems like a nice parallel system to AAA - less performance-based (as there is no time limit to do a climb), and more about exploration :thumbsup:
*That business with the repeated climb loops on DIY did briefly tug at my hackles ... :P
-
No rider opts in to the AAA scheme - they have the points foisted onto them whether they want them or not.
The fundamental flaw is the AAA points being awarded based on the organiser's suggested route. If AAA is a serious competition, then the ride shouldn't attract points if the hills are easily avoided.
If it isn't a serious competition, and just a bit of fun for the few who care, then the level of invective by the poster above is unwarranted.
-
That's why I really dont have any enthusiasm for AAA as an organiser, its normally reasonably straightforward to ensure distance integrity but the climbing equivalent is far more problematic.
Most events (even in Scotland with our sparser population and road network) will present folk with quite a few longer-but-flatter options that the hill averse will consider and I know that folk riding my events have taken this approach, as they have told me at the finish.
In the Midland Valley and Borders the road network is pretty high density which is more the problem.
Fife for example is 1325 Km^2 in area, has a population of 371400 and has 1743 miles of road in it, it's one of the reasons road maintenance is so bad in Fife...
The only hill road of reasonable effort I can think of that is unavoidable (except for Purin Den, that's just evil) is Falkland hill (Leslie to Falkland) anything else and there's a shallower option that's of similar length.
There's plenty of sharp climbs around in North Fife but you have to work hard to get a route with enough cumulative climb for AAA (I have a 50km route using all but one of the climbs between Normans Law and Wormit that exceeds 1km climb but it would be impossible to control); but if you really wanted to Dodge the Gauldry digs on the way to Newburgh the A92 and A912 combination is quiet enough most of the day.
Likewise in Lowland Perthshire you've got the Glen Devon/Eagles and Glenfarg roads that make anything over Path of Condie easy to avoid.
and at the other end of the Ochils the Logie Kirk route over to Sherifmuir is easily avoidable using the Glen Road or going by the Kier roundabout...
The rest of the Midland Valley is mostly rolling fields so there isn't much cumulative height to climb.
The upshot of that is there's plenty of quiet roads to ride!
The Borders also manage to have a reasonable sized road network but with a relatively few routes over to D&G which is a bit more mountainous and is lower density.
Road density plummets once you cross the highland boundary fault and plunges even more once you're over the Great Glen fault; I can't imagine anyone finding away to avoid the climbing on the "Highlands" 400 and 600 rides this year!
-
I can't imagine anyone finding away to avoid the climbing on the "Highlands" 400 and 600 rides this year!
I found no alternative routes for @bairn again's West Highlands 1000 this year and enjoyed every last climb, only getting mislaid on the run in past the airport to Edinburgh itself.
-
Having looked at https://ridewithgps.com/routes/25556906 but with no knowledge of where the Info controls were
There's a fair bit of distance collection in the Midland Valley, you would have crossed the boundary fault at Lochearnhead and you'd certainly struggle to find alternative routes once over there.
With the First non-Info control at Comrie, I presume there was an info control in the vicinity of Dunblane as the shortest route to Comrie from Haymarket is via Glen Devon
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Haymarket,+Edinburgh+EH12+5EY/comrie/@56.1573194,-3.8873027,10z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x4887c7a5bdd4b393:0x6e7360c44f6f7caa!2m2!1d-3.2182815!2d55.945626!1m5!1m1!1s0x48889037c429675b:0x3b8213b4473d01d4!2m2!1d-3.995171!2d56.377967!3e2
And from Stirling it's the Logie Kirk and Sheriffmuir route to Braco
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Stirling/comrie/@56.2473561,-4.1101589,11z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x488857d73c437831:0xfbf01f3702d576ad!2m2!1d-3.9369029!2d56.1165227!1m5!1m1!1s0x48889037c429675b:0x3b8213b4473d01d4!2m2!1d-3.995171!2d56.377967!3e2
Although an extra 2 miles lets you avoid Skinflats and go through Saline in Fife to get to Bridge of Allan if there's nothing forcing you to stay South of the Forth.
-
Which is why the excellent route designer @bairn again asked for detail of the church in Dunblane.
https://ridewithgps.com/trips/23944972
Edinburgh, Dunblane, Comrie, Claonaig, Cambeltown, Oban, Invercreran, Kinlochleven, Corran, Acharacle, Lochailort, Ardgour, Oban, Perth, Dunning, Dunblane, Edinburgh
-
It's possible that people trying to prove a point spend far more time analysing routes for ways around hills than anyone riding ever does.
-
It's possible that people trying to prove a point spend far more time analysing routes for ways around hills than anyone riding ever does.
this.
Besides, if I pay money to ride an AAA event, it's because I WANT to ride those hills... if I want to avoid the hills, then I pay money to ride a non AAA event, or I don't pay money at all, which seems a better return on investment.
I am still pondering whether adding the Gospel Pass for the sake of it is a more fitting end to the BCM, regardless of whether the route deliberately avoids it
-
If there were always a straight choice like that between an AAA and non-AAA event like that I'd have entered far fewer AAA events. Although sometimes when there has been a choice, I've taken the AAA event because it seemed more interesting, and interesting places tend to have hills. But the hill-climbing itself is seldom the attraction for me.
That said, when I've checked I've only ever found a few instances where a significantly less climbey route was practical. And I've chosen to take them even fewer.
(The most notable one I've found is on The Dean, where because you can control at Aust Services and the south side of the Severn is much flatter, you can do the ride without entering Wales or visiting "The Dean" at all. My Chepstow Wetherspoons receipt attests I didn't take this up)
-
Please tell how AAA and advisory route works. If you don't do the set route how can you claim the AAA points are they are based on the climbing. And it's a F........ U to the person running the Audax. Long gone are the days of following the route. Sad people sitting on the computer looking for the line of least resistance.
(https://images.theconversation.com/files/140429/original/image-20161005-15879-23ovmp.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=487&fit=crop&dpr=1)
-
It's possible that people trying to prove a point spend far more time analysing routes for ways around hills than anyone riding ever does.
Local knowledge or learning the area/taking advice has been my method of avoiding or adding climb.
On the Borers of Fife I added the Normans Law road (and somehow overtook people doing the fast descent down the coast road in the process) and another local avoided StAndrews and went up to Peat Inn en-route to Tayport as they couldnt' be bothered with it if it was busy. The 2.25AAA points awarded for that were suspicious to start with given the route suggested was almost entirely coastal avoiding the lumpy interior of Fife...
-
(The most notable one I've found is on The Dean, where because you can control at Aust Services and the south side of the Severn is much flatter, you can do the ride without entering Wales or visiting "The Dean" at all. My Chepstow Wetherspoons receipt attests I didn't take this up)
On the Dean, accepting that the organiser accepts a PoP from the Aust Services as proof of visiting Chepstow - I'm surprised but I guess it's a reasonable place to eat, cursory examination of 3 routes from Newent to Aust Services suggest that that A38 based route is 62.3k + 426m, much longer than riding over the eponymous forest and across the bridge - 53k + 773m, but probably the quickest route is the 52k + 559m cutting down to the A48 and SW along the Severn (NW bank) through/past Lydney, to Chepstow and across the bridge. But who'd want to ride 15 miles down the A48 at a lunchtime on Saturday in March if they could ride through the magnificent Forest of Dean?
An info control in St Briavel or Coleford would sort it (if anything needs sorting).
If I was to offer an example, @Blacksheep is relaxed about whether riders on his Brevet Cymru north of Monmouth take the road through Pandy and Michaelchurch and below Hay Bluff, or the several km longer Golden Valley B4347 road through Eywas Harold. I have ridden both and must admit I prefer the latter because the road is better, wider (still in groups at this early stage) and avoids the sketchy descent into Hay.
Should I be riding rather than "analysing routes for ways round hills"? Well; yes and no - mainly 'no' today: apart from work, it's been raining all day and the Exmouth bar is all white water in the southwesterly gale.
-
The Strava route planner says 950m vs 350m, and if you tick the right options even offers a 150m option hugging the coastal path on the south side, which I don't think is especially bikeable (the big peril of playing this game).
I think quite a few people take the A48 option - I know a few did on the Acme 1000, although that would have been overnight.
-
This discussion has made me realise that, without looking, I do not know what the AAA points are for any of my calendar events*. Nor do I particularly care, to be honest.
*Not 100% true: I know the 400 has null points.
-
But who'd want to ride 15 miles down the A48 at a lunchtime on Saturday in March if they could ride through the magnificent Forest of Dean?
Perhaps someone (mentioning no names but it begins with R and ends with T) whose last ride through the Forest of Dean, on said event, included an encounter with a larger than expected wild boar?
-
This discussion has made me realise that, without looking, I do not know what the AAA points are for any of my calendar events*.
Oh great, that means I can enter all your events safe in the knowledge that they are entirely flat...
-
This discussion has made me realise that, without looking, I do not know what the AAA points are for any of my calendar events*.
Oh great, that means I can enter all your events safe in the knowledge that they are entirely flat...
Trust me, you wouldn't like them if they were entirely flat. I'd only count the 100 miler and the 200 as actually hilly. Flatlanders may beg to differ.
-
I did D&G on tour this year and can testify to it's lumpiness, particuarly as a flatlander. Rod Dalitz was surprised that I managed to claim OCD metres for both Arran and the lumps between Ayr and Newton Stewart on the same day.
I can only say it was probably the hardest day on a bike I've had, starting with the first ferry from Islay and getting to the curry house in Newton Stewart half an hour before closing time.
-
This debate about routes and AAA is something that contributes to the fact that the Humbug Audax has never got off the drawing board and into the calendar (there are other factors like faffing around to find a suitable start/finish control as my local village hall has a price that puts the costs into orbit).
I'd observe there are two camps, one where AAA is an encouragement to avoid and one where AAA is an invitation to treat to a hill-fest. I lean towards the latter and, living at latitude 51 and therefore north of 90%+ of the world's population am in an area with restricted verticality (the highest road is 287m) and high road density (except in the Berkshire Downs between Streatley and Wantage) it's really hard to create a route that (a) doesn't have hill avoidance and (b) doesn't have pesky info controls both of which are the subject of much grumbling...
I have a route. It's a brilliant route that selects some of the most amazing bits of tarmac (admittedly some of them have problems sticking to the gradient, but that's part of the charm) that I can find, after 25 years of deliberately seeking out roads less ridden in Hampshire, Sussex, and Berkshire. The scenery is as good as it gets in the area, especially if scheduled the week after the Upper Thames so there are still autumn colours. It has over 3000m ascent in 210km (sorry, that's another bugbear - it's overdistance....). I can even, now that CET Junior has a car and can be persuaded paid to operate a control, stick vehicles at the top of Bignor Hill and Butser Hill as checkpoints. It fills a gap in the calendar (for a challenging autumn ride) and starts 75km from Central London so reaches a large population within a sensible radius. (Although as the highest point is 260m it won't count for OCD)
But I expect it will stay on the drawing board for another year.
Oh. And you'd need good brakes. Very good brakes. Especially if it rains.
-
This debate about routes and AAA is something that contributes to the fact that the Humbug Audax has never got off the drawing board and into the calendar (there are other factors like faffing around to find a suitable start/finish control as my local village hall has a price that puts the costs into orbit).
I'd observe there are two camps, one where AAA is an encouragement to avoid and one where AAA is an invitation to treat to a hill-fest. I lean towards the latter and, living at latitude 51 and therefore north of 90%+ of the world's population am in an area with restricted verticality (the highest road is 287m) and high road density (except in the Berkshire Downs between Streatley and Wantage) it's really hard to create a route that (a) doesn't have hill avoidance and (b) doesn't have pesky info controls both of which are the subject of much grumbling...
I have a route. It's a brilliant route that selects some of the most amazing bits of tarmac (admittedly some of them have problems sticking to the gradient, but that's part of the charm) that I can find, after 25 years of deliberately seeking out roads less ridden in Hampshire, Sussex, and Berkshire. The scenery is as good as it gets in the area, especially if scheduled the week after the Upper Thames so there are still autumn colours. It has over 3000m ascent in 210km (sorry, that's another bugbear - it's overdistance....). I can even, now that CET Junior has a car and can be persuaded paid to operate a control, stick vehicles at the top of Bignor Hill and Butser Hill as checkpoints. It fills a gap in the calendar (for a challenging autumn ride) and starts 75km from Central London so reaches a large population within a sensible radius. (Although as the highest point is 260m it won't count for OCD)
But I expect it will stay on the drawing board for another year.
Oh. And you'd need good brakes. Very good brakes. Especially if it rains.
I recall the Chiltern 100 sportive had 2600 mt of climbing over 170 km, but in order to do that, it basically featured ALL the climbs in the area, it was a constant up and down the ridge from Dunstable Downs to Watlington.
Obviously such route would be impossible to validate as an Audax, as it would require a dozen info controls at the very least or some sort of un-enforceable mandatory route.
But the point is, does it have to be an Audax? Set up a club (even just a Strava club) register it with CTC for £ 71 and you get insurance coverage against any claim as an organiser. Call it a charity ride, call it a reliability ride, call it whatever you like... if it's a good route with a bit of free advertising on social media, people will come.
Those who want points and AAA points will get it validated as a DIY with GPS, the others will enjoy the day without worrying about such nonsense.
The Audax label doesn't have to apply to any bicycle ride, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I have had such an enthusiastic response from local clubs for BRUM 200 (mostly non AUK members) that I am wondering whether Audax is the correct formula: I might well organise it again in 2020 with a different one, if it turns out people after all don't care about the validation and the points.
Just to put thing in perspective, the potential cost in stamps only to return brevet cards is not far off the fee to hire the village hall ::-)
-
...
Just to put thing in perspective, the potential cost in stamps only to return brevet cards is not far off the fee to hire the village hall ::-)
That's nothing new; when I ran my first event it was just before Paypal really took off in AUK. Postage was considerably more than the hall hire!
-
...
Just to put thing in perspective, the potential cost in stamps only to return brevet cards is not far off the fee to hire the village hall ::-)
That's nothing new; when I ran my first event it was just before Paypal really took off in AUK. Postage was considerably more than the hall hire!
I obviously live near to the wrong village hall.
-
To be fair it is perhaps the cheapest in the area - and we use a much smaller room than (for example) the KVR rides!
-
it's really hard to create a route that (a) doesn't have hill avoidance and (b) doesn't have pesky info controls both of which are the subject of much grumbling...
The hill avoidance gang is small and in many cases hypothetical, and none of them are bothering the AAA points table. So leave it as advisory route, skip the info controls and ignore the grumpy gits on the internet.
-
...
Just to put thing in perspective, the potential cost in stamps only to return brevet cards is not far off the fee to hire the village hall ::-)
That's nothing new; when I ran my first event it was just before Paypal really took off in AUK. Postage was considerably more than the hall hire!
I obviously live near to the wrong village hall.
Round here the going rate is between 100 and 150 a day... that's before any haggling.
I got a good price because the local Bridge club (or whatever club) need it between 9 and 12, and I don't need it between 9 and 12, so they can fit both events
-
it's really hard to create a route that (a) doesn't have hill avoidance and (b) doesn't have pesky info controls both of which are the subject of much grumbling...
The hill avoidance gang is small and in many cases hypothetical, and none of them are bothering the AAA points table. So leave it as advisory route, skip the info controls and ignore the grumpy gits on the internet.
Not all of us want a gratuitous hill-fest. An interesting quiet route that has hills is fine but I don't go looking for them.
-
it's really hard to create a route that (a) doesn't have hill avoidance and (b) doesn't have pesky info controls both of which are the subject of much grumbling...
The hill avoidance gang is small and in many cases hypothetical, and none of them are bothering the AAA points table. So leave it as advisory route, skip the info controls and ignore the grumpy gits on the internet.
Not all of us want a gratuitous hill-fest. An interesting quiet route that has hills is fine but I don't go looking for them.
... but some of us do
https://www.strava.com/activities/1654567082
-
The hill avoidance gang is small and in many cases hypothetical, and none of them are bothering the AAA points table. So leave it as advisory route, skip the info controls and ignore the grumpy gits on the internet.
Not all of us want a gratuitous hill-fest. An interesting quiet route that has hills is fine but I don't go looking for them.
I meant specifically "people who enter AAA events and then ride around the hills". Avoiding the hills by not entering is a much more common pastime.
-
The hill avoidance gang is small and in many cases hypothetical, and none of them are bothering the AAA points table. So leave it as advisory route, skip the info controls and ignore the grumpy gits on the internet.
Not all of us want a gratuitous hill-fest. An interesting quiet route that has hills is fine but I don't go looking for them.
I meant specifically "people who enter AAA events and then ride around the hills". Avoiding the hills by not entering is a much more common pastime.
Ah, I see; thats just defeating the object surely?
-
The hill avoidance gang is small and in many cases hypothetical, and none of them are bothering the AAA points table. So leave it as advisory route, skip the info controls and ignore the grumpy gits on the internet.
Not all of us want a gratuitous hill-fest. An interesting quiet route that has hills is fine but I don't go looking for them.
I meant specifically "people who enter AAA events and then ride around the hills". Avoiding the hills by not entering is a much more common pastime.
Ah, I see; thats just defeating the object surely?
Yup! :)
And that's why most people don't do it - they are there to do the ride, hills-n-all.
-
... but some of us do
https://www.strava.com/activities/1654567082
I'm going to take that as a form of encouragement and start planning, probably for 2020.
As an aside I do have a concept - the Terror of Map 197, definitely not for Audax that packs 23 50m+ ascents in 150km, all on Ordnance Survey Map 197. I rode 20 of them one happy summer day when my legs were unusually good (they didn't start to fall off until 18, although it wasn't helpful that the last one was Singleton Chute) and then realised that I could squeeze three more in. But that's for fun, not Audax. Unfortunately as the highest point is 260m it counts absolutely zero on the OCD scale.
-
it's really hard to create a route that (a) doesn't have hill avoidance and (b) doesn't have pesky info controls both of which are the subject of much grumbling...
The hill avoidance gang is small and in many cases hypothetical, and none of them are bothering the AAA points table. So leave it as advisory route, skip the info controls and ignore the grumpy gits on the internet.
Not all of us want a gratuitous hill-fest. An interesting quiet route that has hills is fine but I don't go looking for them.
... but some of us do
https://www.strava.com/activities/1654567082
When I feel like it...
https://www.strava.com/segments/9411549
https://www.strava.com/segments/6831607
But apparently Fife is flat...
-
it's really hard to create a route that (a) doesn't have hill avoidance and (b) doesn't have pesky info controls both of which are the subject of much grumbling...
The hill avoidance gang is small and in many cases hypothetical, and none of them are bothering the AAA points table. So leave it as advisory route, skip the info controls and ignore the grumpy gits on the internet.
Not all of us want a gratuitous hill-fest. An interesting quiet route that has hills is fine but I don't go looking for them.
... but some of us do
https://www.strava.com/activities/1654567082
When I feel like it...
https://www.strava.com/segments/9411549
https://www.strava.com/segments/6831607
But apparently Fife is flat...
Nice!
But delete the segment, apparently it is bad kharma to create segments where you are KOM in the absence of competitiors
https://www.strava.com/segments/15719987 ;D
-
it's really hard to create a route that (a) doesn't have hill avoidance and (b) doesn't have pesky info controls both of which are the subject of much grumbling...
The hill avoidance gang is small and in many cases hypothetical, and none of them are bothering the AAA points table. So leave it as advisory route, skip the info controls and ignore the grumpy gits on the internet.
Not all of us want a gratuitous hill-fest. An interesting quiet route that has hills is fine but I don't go looking for them.
... but some of us do
https://www.strava.com/activities/1654567082
When I feel like it...
https://www.strava.com/segments/9411549
https://www.strava.com/segments/6831607
But apparently Fife is flat...
Nice!
But delete the segment, apparently it is bad kharma to create segments where you are KOM in the absence of competitiors
https://www.strava.com/segments/15719987 ;D
I tried to encourage some locals to do it, but apparently the 7 is more boak inducing...
-
I tried to encourage some locals to do it, but apparently the 7 is more boak inducing...
People are lazy. I am doing the Rapha 500 for the first time... half the way through, I am just over half the mileage completed, so on track... yet I am in the top 5%, which means probably more than 80% will never complete the challenge... that despite the fact that a good number live in the opposite hemisphere...
people are indeed lazy... ;D
-
I tried to encourage some locals to do it, but apparently the 7 is more boak inducing...
People are lazy. I am doing the Rapha 500 for the first time... half the way through, I am just over half the mileage completed, so on track... yet I am in the top 5%, which means probably more than 80% will never complete the challenge... that despite the fact that a good number live in the opposite hemisphere...
people are indeed lazy... ;D
The realities of choosing to work over Betwixtmas always catches up with my F500 wishes, however every year I click the join challenge button...
This year my last 200 of the year was on the 23rd and I've just put in a route for my first 200 of next year on the 1st...
Might cycle to Iona at the weekend so might get over 0km...