Yet Another Cycling Forum
Off Topic => The Pub => Topic started by: essexian on 13 August, 2019, 09:15:52 am
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https://www.lefthandersday.com/
Any left handers out there? I'm not but one of my best friends is... ;D
Have a nice day :thumbsup: (a left handed thumbs up....most apt!)
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I was left and now I'm right. (Or wrong, according to my wife, ta-BOOM.)
I moved over as a teen, weirdly when I reluctantly started wearing glasses. I'm not sure if that's a coincidence, or glasses are a dexter plot to wipe out the laevos.
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I'm a lefty. Always was, always will be (probably).
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:thumbsup:
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Me, too.
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Not sure I am a true lefty. Left hand using mouse, writing, nose scratching and on rifle range. Right handed cricket bowler, batsman, slips, archery and football. Can be ambidextrous if nesc but much slower using right hand for writing etc. Tends to follow my eyesight preference I think, as have lazy right eye.
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Hmm, interesting how it correlates with eyesight. Back when I was a full-time lefty I was so short-sighted that I had to copy everything from the kid sat next to me who was so dumb I think his parents must have dropped him on his head repeatedly.
I also have a lazy right eye. Lazy isn't the right term. It's quite busy but mostly wanders off to do its own thing, sort of an ocular alien hand, mostly embarrassing me by doing things like taking an excursion down ladies' décolletages. Well, I suppose that would be a lot worse if it was an alien hand. Well, your honour, the defendant's explanation for what happened...
I'm pleased to see that internet didn't disappoint, and it took very little Google to find out statistically which hand is most used for those other activities, the sort best undertaken in private and sans undergarments, and which hand in such scenarios is reserved for Sunday best and other special occasions.
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I'm a lefty but as above
Left hand for writing, using tablets, computer mouse (and not with buttons reversed as Microsoft seems to think it is), drinking tea, drinking beer, chop sticks blah blah blah.
Right hand for sports involving bats, putting hats on, first pedal to pedal off with, blah blah blah.
I used to write ambidextrous switching between hands as I crossed the page. But I was persuaded to just use my left hand for writing whilst in early years as school. Wish I was still ambidextrous. I still am to a certain extent, just not when it comes to writing.
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Similar. Left handed for writing, single-handed bats (e.g. table tennis, tennis), and so on. Right-handed for two-handed bats (e.g. cricket), computer mouse, etc.
No knowledge of any lazy eye.
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Very left handed here. Except for a cricket bat. School taught me to bat. ::-)
My mother taught me to bowl, so of course I'm a left handed bowler.
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I'm a strong righty, except for computer meece and bike pedals, which I've learned to do widdershins for tedious injury reasons. I'm reasonably ambidextrous with screwdrivers[1] and soldering irons, because it's frequently easier to swap hands.
My brother was a lefty for everything except writing, which I assume he was bullied into doing right-handed after failing to demonstrate any particular natural aptitude in either direction. (I reckon he was undiagnosed dyslexic.)
My eyes are fine, I'm just lazy. And if we're counting, sufficiently crap at ballsports that it doesn't really matter which hand I use.
[1] I only recently discovered that this was in any way unusual.
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Another part-lefty here. Certainly for writing*, any fine detail stuff, but right-handed for "heavy" stuff.
*When I worked in Norwich, my boss at the time observed that not only did I speak with a Scottish accent, I wrote with one too. ::-)
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My parents are right-handed.
Two of their six children are properly right-handed.
My left-handed sister married a left handed man, bore 4 sons, only one of whom is left-handed.
Don't know about my 20 other nieces & nephews...
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From a limited search, it seems the left-right handedness is either weakly or not inherited.
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Left footed, right handed (except when dealing cards or like Kim wielding screwdrivers and spanners) was marginally right eyed until playing tenor horn forced my left eye to read the right hand page of the music past the bell of the instrument.
My youngest sister and I are both fairly ambidextrous, thanks to lefty mother, though her skill was improved by busting her right wrist in the final year of her A-levels, surgery at Easter and sitting her final exams left handed.
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I've just thought of something I do left handed....... the ironing.
No idea why as otherwise my left hand is there simply to make me look symmetrical.
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Spammers, screwdrivers and hammers, whichever hand they happen to be in. Mouse, pen, delicate stuff, left hand. Bats, clubs, epees, right hand. Rackets, both, depending on what I remember.
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Writing left handed; most tools either, ice climbing helped, kicking balls - equally bad with both. Rackets, bats golf clubs etc right. Right eyed with camaras etc.
Bother right everything except camaras.
Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
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From a limited search, it seems the left-right handedness is either weakly or not inherited.
Even the genetics are odd – only about 25% of children who have two left-handed parents will also be left-handed.
And lots of other interesting stuff about what left-handedness does or more frequently does not mean: https://theconversation.com/being-left-handed-doesnt-mean-you-are-right-brained-so-what-does-it-mean-121711
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Ambidextrous. I use tools with either hand, paint & draw likewise. I can still write mirror-script with my left hand, though not so legibly now, through lack of practice.
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I think Ian H has just won the internet.
Most tools, cutting, screwdrivering, spannering, gripping (albeit with a significant weakness) - I can do with either hand, cos, well... sooner or later you'll need to.
Writing and driving a mouse, with the right - although I can just about master a mouse (is that still legal?) with the left.
Viewfinders/telescopic sights with the left eye.
Preferred spd launch side - right. Although I can just about manage left and make it look like cycling is really
not for me.
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I am right-handed but my right hand is too weak and numb for many activities so I am typing with my left hand.
I was left-eyed till I went blind in that eye.
When cycling, I found it easier to take my right hand off the bars.
My amdextrous sister writes with her right hand but bats and peels with her left.
My left-handed brother-in-law is a doctor, who does many medical tasks in the customary right-handed manner.
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The drummer of Greenslade would sign his autograph with either hand, one a mirror image of the other. No idea if he is left handed.
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Mmm. Greenslade.
As illustrated by Roger Dean (https://www.rogerdean.com).
Actually, I think watching someone do that signature thing, would probably mess with my head.
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From a limited search, it seems the left-right handedness is either weakly or not inherited.
Even the genetics are odd – only about 25% of children who have two left-handed parents will also be left-handed.
And lots of other interesting stuff about what left-handedness does or more frequently does not mean: https://theconversation.com/being-left-handed-doesnt-mean-you-are-right-brained-so-what-does-it-mean-121711
Based on ten entire minutes of Googling, it seems that really there's no difference between left and right hand dominance – and most of us are ambidextrous to a degree – whether you go one way or the other seems mostly down to random events and they way we learn, and the general raised level of impracticalities that lefties find, such as smearing ink. Most people choose a side and go with it, and they quickly lose muscle memory and stamina on the other side.
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An ex-girlfriend is an identical twin. She is right handed, her sister is left handed. Apparently, this is not uncommon amongst twins.
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I'm reasonably ambidextrous with screwdrivers[1]
[1] I only recently discovered that this was in any way unusual.
This is me. Lefty loosey lefty, righty tighty righty. Makes perfect sense. Squicks Pingu out.
LH: writing, using a fork, using a kitchen knife, typing on a tablet
RH: mouse, scissors.
Everything else: all equally rubbish on both sides
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I write with my left, use a hammer with my left, hold a rifle to my left shoulder, but throw with my right.
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Don't ever try the sport of hammer-throwing, then.
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Don't ever try the sport of hammer-throwing, then.
;D
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I'm very strongly left handed, but sometimesI have to use my right hand because there's no way to do the job left handed (it's a problem of access with some mechanical tasks).
However, I can only use a computer mouse with my right hand.
I can draw reasonably well with my right hand; in drawing lessons, when we were told to change hands in order to challenge set patterns of working I usually got a bollocking for ignoring the instruction.
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Viewfinders/telescopic sights with the left eye.
Ah yes - I'm left eyed and right-handed. Which means I'm inherently bad with guns.
Fortunately this hasn't really been a problem.
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I'm mostly lefty here.
Things that require fine motor control like writing and holding a soldering iron is LH.
But things that need some oomph, like larger hand tools, I use the right.
Shrug.
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I'm very strongly left handed, but sometimesI have to use my right hand because there's no way to do the job left handed (it's a problem of access with some mechanical tasks).
However, I can only use a computer mouse with my right hand.
Me too, any handtools in my right hand seems to become a weopon, that will make me bleed.
My Kitchen is filled with left handed equipment much to my amusement, egen my right handed friends try to cans with a left handed can opener.
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I'm reasonably ambidextrous with screwdrivers[1] and soldering irons,
[1] I only recently discovered that this was in any way unusual.
Is it unusual? Surely this sort of thing is defined by how easy it is to access a space to get a tool in? Screwdrivers, spanners, hammers, all tools really - everyone must surely use those with either hand depending on where the space is, no?
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Write with left, hold mouse in left, use scissors in right (but left hand does the fine-control thing with the paper).
I use knife and fork like a dexter, but hold a spoon in my left hand. After all, it's my left hand that goes towards my mouth. If using just a fork, I'll hold that in my left hand - to me, it's just an obvious extension of using k+f, just without the k. In fact, it was only recently that I noticed that dexters tend to switch to holding a fork in their right hand if they're not using a knife - what's the rationale behind that?
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From a limited search, it seems the left-right handedness is either weakly or not inherited.
Even the genetics are odd – only about 25% of children who have two left-handed parents will also be left-handed.
And lots of other interesting stuff about what left-handedness does or more frequently does not mean: https://theconversation.com/being-left-handed-doesnt-mean-you-are-right-brained-so-what-does-it-mean-121711
Based on ten entire minutes of Googling, it seems that really there's no difference between left and right hand dominance – and most of us are ambidextrous to a degree – whether you go one way or the other seems mostly down to random events and they way we learn, and the general raised level of impracticalities that lefties find, such as smearing ink. Most people choose a side and go with it, and they quickly lose muscle memory and stamina on the other side.
If it was just random, we'd be 50/50 left and right. If it was to do with smearing ink, most Arabs and Israelis would be left handed.
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Not really, given the world favours right-handedness in many small ways (or which writing is one), it's reasonable to expect a non-50:50 pattern of handedness. Looking at a few twin studies, it seems any heritable component is minimal to non-existent (nor is it learned behaviour from your parents).
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... it seems any heritable component is minimal to non-existent (nor is it learned behaviour from your parents).
Interesting.
Anecdata; my mother and Mrs E's father were left handed. One of Mrs E's sisters is left handed. That's two lefties out of six in our generation. In the next two generations (kids and grandkids), a total of eighteen, there are no left handers. That's lower tha average, whic I think is about 10%, therefore one would assume that there would be one or two lefties.
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An ex-girlfriend is an identical twin. She is right handed, her sister is left handed. Apparently, this is not uncommon amongst twins.
Mirror twins. I know a pair.
In very rare cases internal organs can be mirrored too :o.
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I'm reasonably ambidextrous with screwdrivers[1] and soldering irons,
[1] I only recently discovered that this was in any way unusual.
Is it unusual? Surely this sort of thing is defined by how easy it is to access a space to get a tool in? Screwdrivers, spanners, hammers, all tools really - everyone must surely use those with either hand depending on where the space is, no?
No idea. If I had to guess, I'd bet on it being a generational thing, with younger people only getting limited experience of tool use, generally on smaller, easily rotated objects like computers and bicycles, rather than things like houses and cars.
I did some left-handed hammering the other day. I'm surprisingly bad at it.
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I'm a bit all over the place. I write as a righty but eat as a lefty. Apparently I tie my shoe laces as a lefty too (whatever that means). Can't write left-handed though.
Mum told me that my Dad was ambidextrous. His family are all lefties.
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I'm reasonably ambidextrous with screwdrivers[1]
[1] I only recently discovered that this was in any way unusual.
This is me. Lefty loosey lefty, righty tighty righty. Makes perfect sense. Squicks Pingu out...
I just think it's sinister.
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An ex-girlfriend is an identical twin. She is right handed, her sister is left handed. Apparently, this is not uncommon amongst twins.
Mirror twins. I know a pair.
In very rare cases internal organs can be mirrored too :o.
I also know some mirror twins. I've no idea about their internals.
AIUI situs inversus is rare and usually fraught with medical complications.
My observation of smalls is that hand dominance occurs BEFORE they are using chiral objects.
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Not really, given the world favours right-handedness in many small ways (or which writing is one), it's reasonable to expect a non-50:50 pattern of handedness. Looking at a few twin studies, it seems any heritable component is minimal to non-existent (nor is it learned behaviour from your parents).
But if people were born 50/50 left and right handed, why would there be a preference in tools etc for one handedness over the other?
Handedness exists in other primates, eg:
Comparative analysis indicated that chimpanzees and bonobos show population-level right handedness, whereas gorillas and orangutans do not. All ape species showed evidence of population-level handedness when considering specific tasks. Familial analyses in chimpanzees indicated that offspring and maternal (but not paternal) handedness was significantly positively correlated, but this finding was contingent upon the classification criteria used to evaluate hand preference. Overall, the proportion of right handedness is lower in great apes compared with humans, and various methodological and theoretical explanations for this discrepancy are discussed.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2063575/
and Helly observes handedness in very smalls. It seems more likely that we're just born primarily right-handed. Perhaps there is some evolutionary advantage on a population level to having most of the species handed in the same way?
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On occasion medics (and stupider pseudomedics operating for the DWP or similar) have been known to ask barakta if she's right-handed. This always seems like an overly philosophical question; it's not like she's lost the use of a limb in adulthood.
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But if people were born 50/50 left and right handed, why would there be a preference in tools etc for one handedness over the other?
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and Helly observes handedness in very smalls. It seems more likely that we're just born primarily right-handed. Perhaps there is some evolutionary advantage on a population level to having most of the species handed in the same way?
It's an interesting question, but I think once there's a small benefit to going one way or the other, it gets amplified by design and environmental choices (the same happens in evolution, but I think can applied to non-heritable phenotypes). There must be an overall selective benefit in handedness itself, otherwise you wouldn't see it in other primates, but not in which hand is dominant. I'd speculate the benefit on handedness in tasks is the focus – both on building the neural structures for fine control (on either side of the brain) and the basic stamina and strength to perform that task.
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Viewfinders/telescopic sights with the left eye.
Ah yes - I'm left eyed and right-handed. Which means I'm inherently bad with guns.
Fortunately this hasn't really been a problem.
A gun range safety officer told me to ignore any issues like that - if I wanted to become truly efficient, I should learn to shoot with both eyes and both hands. "What happens when you're hiding around the wrong-handed corner?" he said. Not really a problem for someone who only went shooting a couple of times.
As for the rest,
Lefty - writing, Frisbee, small hammer, hand axe, carving and craft tools, snooker / pool, football
Righty - hitting things with sticks / bats / racquets, throwing, guitar, mouse, eating irons, big hammer / pickaxe / axe, martial arts weapons*
I can never tell until I actually try something whether I'll be left or right handed at it, but generally it seems to be fine motor control on the left and power on the right.
*Which of course are practised both sides even when they're not, such as Japanese sword arts.
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My left-handed sister and her left-handed husband have four sons. only one of whom is left-handed.
I cannot imagine they foisted right-handedness on their smalls and this tends to emerge before schools and schooling have any influence.
Most humans are right-handed for whatever reason.
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Presumably there's a benefit to consistent handedness once working in groups with tools becomes a thing. I'm thinking clobbering animals to DETH with sticks without hitting your friends, rather than the practicalities of sharing scissors.
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But if people were born 50/50 left and right handed, why would there be a preference in tools etc for one handedness over the other?
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and Helly observes handedness in very smalls. It seems more likely that we're just born primarily right-handed. Perhaps there is some evolutionary advantage on a population level to having most of the species handed in the same way?
It's an interesting question, but I think once there's a small benefit to going one way or the other, it gets amplified by design and environmental choices (the same happens in evolution, but I think can applied to non-heritable phenotypes). There must be an overall selective benefit in handedness itself, otherwise you wouldn't see it in other primates, but not in which hand is dominant. I'd speculate the benefit on handedness in tasks is the focus – both on building the neural structures for fine control (on either side of the brain) and the basic stamina and strength to perform that task.
Yes, I'd speculate on the same lines. But doesn't that suggest that most individuals of a largely z-handed species will be born z-handed? There might be some y-handers who get "converted" by use of tools etc but surely most are going to be born in line with the majority of the species?
There might also be an advantage to maintaining a small pool of y-handers for those tricky situations when z-handedness is awkward due to limited space etc. (The classic example would be those spiral staircases in medieval castles, when you'd send the lefties up first so they can swing their swords better; though I expect that's more of a later rationalisation of something that just was.)
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Is it unusual? Surely this sort of thing is defined by how easy it is to access a space to get a tool in? Screwdrivers, spanners, hammers, all tools really - everyone must surely use those with either hand depending on where the space is, no?
When there's limited space, yes, but in most instances there isn't, so I'll use my preferred (left) hand. And, where for example a screw is difficult to drive in, there's no doubt that my left hand is better at putting load on (to stop the driver from slipping out of the slot).
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I read somwhere that Korean shipyards employ left handed welders and painters so that important parts os structures that right handers can't reach easily are done correctly.
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Yes, I'd speculate on the same lines. But doesn't that suggest that most individuals of a largely z-handed species will be born z-handed? There might be some y-handers who get "converted" by use of tools etc but surely most are going to be born in line with the majority of the species?
There might also be an advantage to maintaining a small pool of y-handers for those tricky situations when z-handedness is awkward due to limited space etc. (The classic example would be those spiral staircases in medieval castles, when you'd send the lefties up first so they can swing their swords better; though I expect that's more of a later rationalisation of something that just was.)
I think the evidence, as far as I've read, is that we're not born with any innate handedness, it's purely environmental (perhaps left-handed people are simply those who did their first scribbles with that hand and stuck with it). Things could, quite reasonably, be the other way around with laevos ruling the roost. As it stands the world is a bit easier for right-handers, so there's more.
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But if people were born 50/50 left and right handed, why would there be a preference in tools etc for one handedness over the other?
and Helly observes handedness in very smalls. It seems more likely that we're just born primarily right-handed. Perhaps there is some evolutionary advantage on a population level to having most of the species handed in the same way?
As pointed out above left handedness was considered sinister, as in cack handed, as in the devils hand. Until relatively recent times using primarily your left hand was strongly discouraged, certainly in this country (and a few other I can think of). My uncle was forced to use his right hand throughout school days and at home and elsewhere during his youth. We are talking about the 1950 / 60's so not a huge time ago.
At school they tried to force me to primarily use my right hand, but left handedness won out. I had to get left hand nibs for my ink pens. Many of the first things kids come across in school are predominately designed for using with the right hand. So some may just decide to overcome their preference and use their right hands, because it is easier with such tools.
Who knows whether tools would be handed at all, if left handedness had not been associated with the devil? We also cannot be certain of what percentage are left handed. It's not as if it is recorded in any medical records anywhere. The number of left handers is anecdotal bit like estimated sexual orientation percentages are far from exact.
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Left handedness remains a complex subject with a vast number of factors all having a small independent effect. This study is a useful summary https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6345846/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6345846/)
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Who knows whether tools would be handed at all, if left handedness had not been associated with the devil?
Because some tools are inherently chiral? Scissors, for example, can be made one of two ways round. Same goes for anything involving a screw thread. And eventually the other kind turns out to be useful - eg. to stop things unscrewing in operation, or to frustrate people trying to obtain the right type of RF connector (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=11510.msg2418494#msg2418494).
Standardisation is useful, if only to know which direction to apply ham-fisted monkey force to undo that fastener, so it stands to reason that one type would proliferate, even if there weren't any value judgements applied.
When the devil eventually gets invented, it's presumably into a world where one handedness (of both stuff and people, if only through learned techniques) is more common and considered normal, so naturally he's going to get associated with the other. First rule of persecuting out-groups for political gain is to make sure your chosen out-group are in a weaker position, if only by force of numbers.
I'm sure the Raman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendezvous_with_Rama) devil was associated with right-tentacledness. Or something.
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If it's any consolation, movies always get DNA the wrong bloody way around. It twists to the right.
(There's no known reason why it can't be left-turn, the same for amino acids which, for life on Earth, are all L-)
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There's plenty of experimental evidence for symmetry breaking events in molecular populations leading to a rapid self-selection of the predominant isomer once it becomes the slight majority.
(in designed, self replicating systems... it's a fascinating subject actually :-)
Symmetry breaking even goes as far back as the Big Bang if you *really* want to get into it - why is the universe made from matter particles and not, what we call, anti-matter? A symmetry breaking event right at the outset must have started that one...
(aslo, pedantry-wise... D-amino acids do actually exist in nature, quite a lot - presumably you meant DNA-encoded proteinogenic amino acids are all L- ;) )
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Is it unusual? Surely this sort of thing is defined by how easy it is to access a space to get a tool in? Screwdrivers, spanners, hammers, all tools really - everyone must surely use those with either hand depending on where the space is, no?
When there's limited space, yes, but in most instances there isn't, so I'll use my preferred (left) hand. And, where for example a screw is difficult to drive in, there's no doubt that my left hand is better at putting load on (to stop the driver from slipping out of the slot).
:o :o
Ok, so how about cooking? Say you have 4 pans on the hob. To avoid overlapping handles, the 2 pans on the right side have handles sticking off the the right. The 2 on the left have handles sticking out to the left. You want to stir the contents of the pans. Surely for the 2 pans on the right side, you hold the pans with your right hand, and stir with the left; but for the pans on the left side, you hold the handle with the left hand, swap the spoon over and stir with the right hand?
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If it's any consolation, movies always get DNA the wrong bloody way around. It twists to the right.
(There's no known reason why it can't be left-turn, the same for amino acids which, for life on Earth, are all L-)
Brilliant, all life on Earth is made from left handed molecules. Everybody on Earth is left handed.
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If it's any consolation, movies always get DNA the wrong bloody way around. It twists to the right.
(There's no known reason why it can't be left-turn, the same for amino acids which, for life on Earth, are all L-)
Brilliant, all life on Earth is made from left handed molecules. Everybody on Earth is left handed.
Apart from DNA, of course. That's D-.
(aslo, pedantry-wise... D-amino acids do actually exist in nature, quite a lot - presumably you meant DNA-encoded proteinogenic amino acids are all L- ;) )
Yes, proteins, you pedantic monkey. If I recall, bacteria use D-amino acids in their cell walls (and glycine is its own enantiomer, so doesn't have D- or L- forms). Excitingly my final foray in the heady heights of academia was nucleic acid-sugar epimerisation.
It's important stuff, the problems with thalidomide, for instance, were down to stereochemistry.
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Surely the lefty-devil association is pretty strong evidence of left handers being a minority. Or could it be that the 50% of the population that's right handed got a random advantage over the others at some point – presumably about the time we started using tools – and for some reason began persecuting half the human beings on earth?
I wonder how far back that association goes though. 2,000 years certainly, probably 4,000. Come to that, do we have any evidence of handedness in archaeological remains? Maybe cave art would give clues?
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Is it unusual? Surely this sort of thing is defined by how easy it is to access a space to get a tool in? Screwdrivers, spanners, hammers, all tools really - everyone must surely use those with either hand depending on where the space is, no?
When there's limited space, yes, but in most instances there isn't, so I'll use my preferred (left) hand. And, where for example a screw is difficult to drive in, there's no doubt that my left hand is better at putting load on (to stop the driver from slipping out of the slot).
:o :o
Ok, so how about cooking? Say you have 4 pans on the hob. To avoid overlapping handles, the 2 pans on the right side have handles sticking off the the right. The 2 on the left have handles sticking out to the left. You want to stir the contents of the pans. Surely for the 2 pans on the right side, you hold the pans with your right hand, and stir with the left; but for the pans on the left side, you hold the handle with the left hand, swap the spoon over and stir with the right hand?
Weirdly, given my screwdriving ambiguity, no.
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Is it unusual? Surely this sort of thing is defined by how easy it is to access a space to get a tool in? Screwdrivers, spanners, hammers, all tools really - everyone must surely use those with either hand depending on where the space is, no?
When there's limited space, yes, but in most instances there isn't, so I'll use my preferred (left) hand. And, where for example a screw is difficult to drive in, there's no doubt that my left hand is better at putting load on (to stop the driver from slipping out of the slot).
:o :o
Ok, so how about cooking? Say you have 4 pans on the hob. To avoid overlapping handles, the 2 pans on the right side have handles sticking off the the right. The 2 on the left have handles sticking out to the left. You want to stir the contents of the pans. Surely for the 2 pans on the right side, you hold the pans with your right hand, and stir with the left; but for the pans on the left side, you hold the handle with the left hand, swap the spoon over and stir with the right hand?
I move all the pans around so that I can hold the handle with my right hand and stir with my left.
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I'd probably stir the front right pan right-handed (handle sticking out to the front, at least temporarily during stirring). I'd swap hands for the one at the back.
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I'm originally left handed, although I'm another one where at school they tried to make me use my right hand. So I can write with both hands, at the same time if pushed (which really freaks out some people), although I'm much slower with the right. Although it's much neater.........…
Having said that, over the years, I've ended up ensuring I can use either hand for just about anything, as it's just easier that way.
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I was never made to write with either hand but then I suspect my teacher gave up after her failed attempts to make me join up my letters. This boy won't do the Devil's Cursive.
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I was never made to write with either hand but then I suspect my teacher gave up after her failed attempts to make me join up my letters. This boy won't do the Devil's Cursive.
I am convinced joining up letters just Does Not Work for some people, of whom I am one.
My joined up writing was never fluid and quick, and joining up just made it scrawly. Unjoined, it was crisp and clear.
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The more important question with the cooker and pans is stirring clockwise or counterclockwise with each hand?
If I try to unlock a door with the wrong hand I fail as I am trying to lock it more.
Regarding hammers and screwdrivers, a surprising number of the occasions when you need these are in corners. It is in corners that ambidextrousness is exceptionally useful.
I know I've posted this before, but a long time ago, in a former century, I had a job packing diesel engines. The engines arrived, were lined up by a forklift on pallets, and we built a crate around them, out of wood and nails. I joined the team along with another newbie, time served in one of The Forces. The regular staff aligned themselves to the latter, and I was out on a limb. Until the next day when I turned up for work and he didn't. Apparently he couldn't get out of bed because his arm hurt so much. He'd only used one arm to hammer in nails, poor soul ;D
Later on that week I worked out how many nails we each hit in a day. I seem to remember it was in the order of 1/3rd of a mile of nails a day.
They wouldn't do that nowadays, they'd do it in metres.
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The more important question with the cooker and pans is stirring clockwise or counterclockwise with each hand?
Both, for better mixing...
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And related, what about writing an 8 or O? I feel sure there's a "correct" direction for these, that you're taught at primary school, but I've no idea which direction it is. I sometimes do them one way, sometimes the other, but I always start at the top. That's about as ambidextrous as I get though.
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'8' and 'O' I start at the top heading clockwise. '0' I start at about 2 o'clock and go clockwise, before adding a stroke downwards and to the left. (I cross my 7s too, but this doesn't solve the problem of Other People sometimes doing '4's that look like my '9's (my '4's look like '4's, so are completely unambiguous - I used to provide a sample in the margin of exam papers).)
If I were to slow down and bit-bash the primary-school joined up writing I haven't used since about 1995, I'd do 'o' the anticlockwise from the top.
It seems that a surprising amount of the handwriting I actually do these days is numbers: Noting down measurements, network addresses, writing dates on things, occasional scribbles of algebra. The occasional post-it note gets block capitals. I tend to use a computer of some sort for everything else, which is to the general benefit of humanity.
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So your 4s don't look like Ss? I once had a taxi ride in Poland during which the driver expounded to me his cranky theories of numerology and the significance of letters. The only bit I remember is that 4 is the number of power, lightning and violence. As he pointed out, the Nazis knew this; think of the SS.
(Q I definitely start at the top and go anticlockwise. The others I start at the top and go either clockwise or anti. And I cross my 7s too. I can't remember if that signifies anything... )
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Presumably there's a benefit to consistent handedness once working in groups with tools becomes a thing. I'm thinking clobbering animals to DETH with sticks without hitting your friends, rather than the practicalities of sharing scissors.
When I took up archery they always made me stand on the right end of the line.
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I was never made to write with either hand but then I suspect my teacher gave up after her failed attempts to make me join up my letters. This boy won't do the Devil's Cursive.
I am convinced joining up letters just Does Not Work for some people, of whom I am one.
My joined up writing was never fluid and quick, and joining up just made it scrawly. Unjoined, it was crisp and clear.
I thought they beat that kind of thing out of you doctors at medical school?
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Yes, my writing used to be terrible, and after all those 20+A4 page lectures it got so illegible that I even struggle to read it.
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My S's sometimes come our backwards, but only if I try to think about it. Thinking breaks things.
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If it's any consolation, movies always get DNA the wrong bloody way around. It twists to the right.
(There's no known reason why it can't be left-turn, the same for amino acids which, for life on Earth, are all L-)
Brilliant, all life on Earth is made from left handed molecules. Everybody on Earth is left handed.
Apart from DNA, of course. That's D-.
(aslo, pedantry-wise... D-amino acids do actually exist in nature, quite a lot - presumably you meant DNA-encoded proteinogenic amino acids are all L- ;) )
Yes, proteins, you pedantic monkey. If I recall, bacteria use D-amino acids in their cell walls (and glycine is its own enantiomer, so doesn't have D- or L- forms). Excitingly my final foray in the heady heights of academia was nucleic acid-sugar epimerisation.
It's important stuff, the problems with thalidomide, for instance, were down to stereochemistry.
The L and D stereochemistry in molecules is a pretty poor designation of their 'handedness'. Plenty of L-molecules are dextrotatory to plane polarised light and plenty of D-molecules are laevo... It was/is a system devised by Fisher in the 19th century and is all based on the handedness of the simple sugar glyceraldehyde. It also only works for one of the stereo-centres in sugars so to say all 'natural' sugars are D is misleading (certainly the most common ones, ribose, deoxyribose, glucose, fructose, galactose, mannose are for sure). In fact when Fisher first designated D and L glyceraldehyde according to the way it is drawn devised by him (still called a Fisher projection) - he actually had no idea which enantiomer was which as they hadn't the tools to assign absolute stereochemistry back then. After about 90 years they found that he'd guessed 'right' (boom 'tish)
Is there no still mileage in the way most babies sit in the womb? Back when I was a lad, it was the consensus theory that the vast majority have a certain orientation in the womb in their foetal position and that was what defined it. Probably easily debunked in the days of scans I suppose.
Not sure I should be allowed in here, sorry. Righty with everything me, even after sever injuries to both my right limbs :(
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It's still clever though (and I believe S- and R- are still in vogue as more correct designations, it's been a while he says totting up a lot of years since his last paper, which was incidentally about an epimerisation mechanism, it's how vitamin C is made, fact fans).
To lower the tone (again), one story I read was there's increased pressure on righties, because of having to work the mouse and look at the screen. Honestly chaps, just get a trackpad and put on the other side of your keyboard.
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Yes, my writing used to be terrible, and after all those 20+A4 page lectures it got so illegible that I even struggle to read it.
It's a wonder that any University teaching got absorbed all those years ago. How were you meant to take in the subject matter whilst writing manically in the lecture theatre? One of our lecturers was so bad that a group of us stopped going after a while, we all photocopied the notes of the lecturers pet. This pet would rewrite them to make them legible, for themselves, plus all those who copied them. I guess students get an iPad download these days with salient points highlighted.
Bumping your left hand into the right hand of the student next to you, as you wrote, didn't help legibility.
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I've heard (apocryphal) stories of classes agreeing which one student would attend the lecture, carrying everyone else's tape recorders. These days of course you could just copy an MP3. Not sure it would work where diagrams on the board are central, but then a camera would be quite easy. In practice I think lecturers make a lot of stuff available electronically anyway?
One of our lecturers had reputedly been excellent some decades before, but unfortunately had descended into near incomprehensibility. Generations of students resorted to selling on to the next year group treasured second-hand copies of the textbook that he had written in his prime, but that was now out of print.
I've no idea whether he was left-handed...
I did find note-taking helpful at university. My writing however descended into straight lines across the page, with occasional upward or downward ticks. Curiously, I could still read it ???
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Yes, my writing used to be terrible, and after all those 20+A4 page lectures it got so illegible that I even struggle to read it.
It's a wonder that any University teaching got absorbed all those years ago. How were you meant to take in the subject matter whilst writing manically in the lecture theatre? One of our lecturers was so bad that a group of us stopped going after a while, we all photocopied the notes of the lecturers pet. This pet would rewrite them to make them legible, for themselves, plus all those who copied them. I guess students get an iPad download these days with salient points highlighted.
Bumping your left hand into the right hand of the student next to you, as you wrote, didn't help legibility.
Actually they get a video of us lecturing, a Ppt presentation to look at - so now they don't bother going and try and binge-watch it all in the days before the exams - with predictable results. University teaching has always been - here's the material - here's the primary sources - go and READ it and learn it properly... here's some example questions and problems to help you understand it. I think we should go back to the old way frankly, as the more you provide, the more they want and the less work they seem to be prepared to do for themselves.
(generalising a little there, there are still excellent students who are diligent, but the majority who can't be arsed are increasingly self-destructing)
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I once borrowed a photocopied set of notes for the lecture I'd missed. Turned out I'd written the originals. That must have been one hell of a hangover. Come on, 9am lectures, the Devil's curriculum.
I find the activity of writing notes means the information has to pass through my brain which the side-effect that some of it sticks. As I only print, I'm a bit slow at writing, so it forces so quick summarization.
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Yes, my writing used to be terrible, and after all those 20+A4 page lectures it got so illegible that I even struggle to read it.
It's a wonder that any University teaching got absorbed all those years ago. How were you meant to take in the subject matter whilst writing manically in the lecture theatre?
Fortunately I worked out[1] at some point towards the end of my GCSEs that with my writing speed taking notes was stupid and that I was better off paying attention and actually learning something rather than desperately trying to triage what might later turn out to be important.
Then I got to university and discovered the sort of lectures that were basically an inefficient means of conveying citations. I bought a Psion 5 and a massive box of NiCad batteries, which tripled my dictation speed, and was just about able to keep up.
(I suspect these days I'd be diagnosed with dysgraphia and allowed to use a computer for exams and stuff.)
Universities have, for the most part, come round to realising that lectures are for teaching, not duplicating notes, and the more progressive ones provide slides in advance and centralised quality A/V recordings of the lectures as a matter of course. (The less progressive ones will grudgingly arrange to do this on an individual basis for the half a dozen card-carrying disabled students, at greatly inflated cost.) Which is brilliant for the writing-impaired, the lipreaders and all the other people who can either learn or write, and terrible for the old-school academics who believe that a) learning happens in the motor cortex or b) by withholding teaching material other than through the medium of lecturing, the students will be less lazy.
[1] Helped by my awesome physics teacher telling me that if I wanted to just sit there and pay attention that was absolutely fine, she knew I wasn't slacking off.
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The more important question with the cooker and pans is stirring clockwise or counterclockwise with each hand?
Both, for better mixing...
I wanted to post that!
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(I cross my 7s too, but this doesn't solve the problem of Other People sometimes doing '4's that look like my '9's (my '4's look like '4's, so are completely unambiguous - I used to provide a sample in the margin of exam papers).)
I cross my zs too, so that they're not confused with 2s
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When I do a presentation sans presentation aids (as is occasionally my wont), just me and a spectacle of public gesticulation, I see younger people in the audience panic. Are there slides!? No.
They also, as a generalization, scribble and type away like demons from Hell's stenography pool, trying to snatch every word, as though they might miss a word of such crucial importance that their entire comprehension of the presentation be sundered. And sometimes I talk like that, using the big words and ventures into meandering periphrasis and off-piste anecdote, just to make them write more. O sweet, corrupting power!
In other news I cross my 7s too (which seems to perplex Americans more than most), put hooks atop my a's and all my rs are Rs, though I small cap the lower case.
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Wow, I'm impressed they're not all staring at phones and tablets, surfing t'web or typing on instafacewitter.
I recently gave a lecture course to allegedly 25 year 3 students - I flipped them and everything - a flipped lecture being you pre-record your lecture going through everything quick-stylee. Students watch it in advance and you then go through problems during he contact time. This is actually a *really* effective way of teaching if done right.
My lecture attendance was about six people (the other two lecturers got 4 if you think I'm unpopular ;)).
It is not coincidence I think, that when it came to marking their exams there were about 6-8 excellent papers and a whole bunch of dross otherwise. There is still a direct correlation between engaging with teaching contact and actually passing in my experience.
That said, I certainly agree that visual lecture capture is a superb resource for people who find our mother tongue challenging, and others who struggle to note it all down at the time etc.
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As for scribbling and typing away like Hell's stenographers, there's the old university lecturer joke: Lecturer walks into room in Moscow University (it was always Moscow for some reason) and says, "Good morning." The students write down, "Lecturer said Good morning." Lecturer walks into room in New York and says, "Good morning." The students say "Hello Professor". Lecturer walks into room in <your university here> and says, "Good morning." The students sit there blankly.
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(I cross my 7s too, but this doesn't solve the problem of Other People sometimes doing '4's that look like my '9's (my '4's look like '4's, so are completely unambiguous - I used to provide a sample in the margin of exam papers).)
I cross my zs too, so that they're not confused with 2s
Sehr kontinental. Probably a thought crime.
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I would have done them like a ʒ, except, well, y'know...
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I was never made to write with either hand but then I suspect my teacher gave up after her failed attempts to make me join up my letters. This boy won't do the Devil's Cursive.
I am convinced joining up letters just Does Not Work for some people, of whom I am one.
My joined up writing was never fluid and quick, and joining up just made it scrawly. Unjoined, it was crisp and clear.
I thought they beat that kind of thing out of you doctors at medical school?
I could not take useful lecture notes, so mostly did not.
I was a conscientious doctor who thought it Important to write Unambiguous and Legible Certificates and Prescriptions. Dropping work whilst answering queries from those who can't read your scrawl is a frustrating PITA and waste of time.
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Wow, I'm impressed they're not all staring at phones and tablets, surfing t'web or typing on instafacewitter.
Well, these are 'industry professionals' and academics rather than students. To be honest, it depends on the audience and seniority level, I'm more likely to do a simple stand-up in front of senior management, something more prepared for juniors or people who aren't fluent in English.
What I don't do, because it's the killer, is just read through dense slides. Put that crap in a reference document or similar and distribute it separately.
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I would have done them like a ʒ, except, well, y'know...
We know that your chain oil is z in i. :)
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(I cross my 7s too, but this doesn't solve the problem of Other People sometimes doing '4's that look like my '9's (my '4's look like '4's, so are completely unambiguous - I used to provide a sample in the margin of exam papers).)
I cross my zs too, so that they're not confused with 2s
I do that too. I think it may have started at university (lots of hard sums).
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Ok, so how about cooking? Say you have 4 pans on the hob. To avoid overlapping handles, the 2 pans on the right side have handles sticking off the the right. The 2 on the left have handles sticking out to the left. You want to stir the contents of the pans. Surely for the 2 pans on the right side, you hold the pans with your right hand, and stir with the left; but for the pans on the left side, you hold the handle with the left hand, swap the spoon over and stir with the right hand?
I avoid that by cooking simpler dishes 8).
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I am sceptical about lecture capture, not least cos the accessibility for deaf students is very poor and they're very rarely captioned.
While I do know of exceptions to the high attendance = high grades, that's cos I work with disabled students, and those exceptions usually have a good reason for not being able to attend and do EPIC amounts of other work to make up for it.
I wonder if they still correlate handedness with specific learning difficulties and neurodiverse conditions... Former colleagues used to say many dyslexics are also lefties...
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AIUI more lefties are neurodiverse, possibly indicating some damage to the left hemisphere.
Several recent USA presidents have been lefties, make of that what you like!
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AIUI more lefties are neurodiverse, possibly indicating some damage to the left hemisphere.
Several recent USA presidents have been lefties, make of that what you like!
From Ford to Obama, only Carter and Dubya were righties.