Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Freewheeling => Velo Fixe => Topic started by: Doo on 07 April, 2020, 02:00:26 pm
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Hi Folks,
Probably been asked a 100 times, however, what is the favoured gearing for a single speed audax bike? I've had 2 in the past - 42 x 16 and 48 x 18 and I found little difference between the 2. Am asking now because I am thinking of getting a bike built up and wanted some thoughts/advice etc
Cheers,
Doo
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You need to divide front teeth count by the rear count to compare gears for same bike.
They both come out 2.6..., which will be why they don’t feel much different.
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I am riding 44/16 at the moment which seems like a very good ratio for mixed terrain cycling for me. Gets you up the hills and through the headwinds ok but still lets you average 30 km/h on the flat without being too spinny.
You can have a wheel built with two sprockets/freewheels on either side so you can have a choice of ratios by flipping the hub over as far as I know.
https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/42712/convert-fixed-side-of-flip-flop-hub-to-freewheel
Preferences are very diverse. There was a feature about the people who did PBP fixed/SS and their ratios varied a lot.
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my favourite* ss gearing is 48x16, have done almost 7000km on that ratio so far, mostly training and audax rides
*which does not mean it will be your favourite
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I dunno why you'd want to ride any distance on a SS. All the disadvantages of fixed with none of the advantages. :thumbsup:
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my favourite* ss gearing is 48x16, have done almost 7000km on that ratio so far, mostly training and audax rides
*which does not mean it will be your favourite
My favourite fixed gearing is 48*16, but it took me a whole to get there. Used 48*18 for quite a long time before that.
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It all depends on how fast you ride and your pedalling speed.
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Thanks for all the responses thus far.
48 x 18 seemed fine before (as did 42 x 16 and I now know why d'oh). Excuse my ignorance, but 48 x 16 would be tougher, right?
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Thanks for all the responses thus far.
48 x 18 seemed fine before (as did 42 x 16 and I now know why d'oh). Excuse my ignorance, but 48 x 16 would be tougher, right?
Funny you should day that but, in the end, I found it easier.
It is a bigger gear, though. Circa 12%.
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I find that using a gear inch calculator is helpful, this one works https://www.bikecalc.com/gear_inches. More inches = higher gearing. My preference for fixed gear over the last 18 months or so has been 68" (49 * 19) for most terrain and I've geared down for longer hilly stuff such as the Brevet Cymru or Bryan Chapman 64" (49 * 20). Never ridden higher than 69".
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It's a personal thing, so recommendations from others are only helpful to a certain degree.
My gearing choice depends on my weight, the weight of my bike, my fitness, the general terrain I plan on tackling, and the distance.
Most fun bike ever: lightweight carbon race frame 48/18. For me, the right gear to maintain 18mph +/- 2mph @ 80-100rpm, on rolling terrain with no monster hills. Just been out for a quick 30 miler and managed to descend at 30mph with ease.
Might not work for you though
^fixed, not SS (agree with chris n about SS)
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I've had a fixed in my stable for over 50 years. As a teenager I rode 48x20 (72") on clubruns until I learned to pedal and dropped the gear to 48x20 like most of my clubmates. This was for clubruns around the South Downs and central south coast and for youth hostel touring. On that gear I toured central Wales and in Normandy and Brittany. For time trialling and outdoor track I rode 48x16 (81") or 48x15 (86"). Just once I tried 48x14 (92") for a short time trial, a 10. I went slower than usual because I just could not get "on top of" the gear. Mind you, I was never fast, 25 minutes being my best 10 time back in 1973. Longest ride on a 65" was 120 miles which was a regular feature in those dim and distant days.
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70" for fixed, about 60" for SS. With a SS you don't need to worry about getting down the hills so you can run an easier gear.
However...I pedal at about 100rpm on a geared bike, so a 60" gear gives me a nice steady 18mph. if you naturally pedal at 80rpm* then a 70" SS would be more appropriate.
*which is more efficient than 100rpm, although not quite as kind to the knees.
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I've had a fixed in my stable for over 50 years. As a teenager I rode 48x20 (72") on clubruns until I learned to pedal and dropped the gear to 48x20 like most of my clubmates. This was for clubruns around the South Downs and central south coast and for youth hostel touring. On that gear I toured central Wales and in Normandy and Brittany. For time trialling and outdoor track I rode 48x16 (81") or 48x15 (86"). Just once I tried 48x14 (92") for a short time trial, a 10. I went slower than usual because I just could not get "on top of" the gear. Mind you, I was never fast, 25 minutes being my best 10 time back in 1973. Longest ride on a 65" was 120 miles which was a regular feature in those dim and distant days.
72" is nominally 48x18 (could be closer to 48x17 with 700x23 tyres). 48x20 is from memory about 65". My touring gear when I was young, strong (and stupid) was 49x19, changed to 49x20 for the winter. Now I have trouble with 42x17, the winter gear was 42x18 when I last rode fixed in winter. It's a bit low but on ss it was fine (freewheel for going down hill!).
I also tied 49x14 in a 10. Same result as you, couldn't get on top of it, beaten by a clubmate for 10 seconds
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44/16 (700x32C) is my standard commuting/ audax fixed ratio. There is a 17t on the other side of the hub but it hasn’t been used for a while. I ran 42/17 fixed for a roughstuff weekend last year but there was a fair bit of walking required on the steep stuff.
I’m not strong enough to run much bigger gears for long rides. 48 or 49/14 were normal track gears for me back in the day but I wouldn’t like to turn them for any distance on the road nowadays.
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I used 48 x 14 for a couple of seasons of "10"s and went faster than on 48 x 15. This was because the start of the course had a gentle downhill (which you didn't need to ride back up) and it was impossible for me to get power down with a lower gear. 48 x 15 would have been better on the flat bits but it was a trade-off.
Riding to the start and back on a 90" gear was oddly fun. Everything happens very slowly!
But SS is a completely different animal to fixed, so I shouldn't confuse the OP!
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I dunno why you'd want to ride any distance on a SS. All the disadvantages of fixed with none of the advantages. :thumbsup:
Interestingly I think the opposite is correct - SS has many of the advantages of fixed without the main disadvantage: ease of maintenance, cheaper/fewer components and not having to make any decisions on which gear to be in, but with the ability to freewheel when required. It's clear that quite a few will not agree with this, but I thought I'd offer the counter argument O:-)
FWIW I usually use either 43x17 or 43x18 on my SS bikes.
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I'm with chris n on this. Fixed gets you up hills in a way SS can't, by pushing the cranks over the dead centres for you. There is also less to go wrong; unless you buy a really expensive White Industries one or flush it with oil regularly, a freewheel can easily stick and give no drive.
Also, you can throw away the rear brake, rear brake cabling and most of the LH brake lever, so it's measurably lighter.
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I did the Mersey Roads 24 on 47*14 and ride faster courses on 50*14. I can ride at 35mph on the bigger gear.
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we are veering off topic, but ime ss is vastly superior, just as quick up the hills (if there are dead spots, one should improve the pedalling technique), you can descend any long hill in relaxed manner, without a speed limiter, in a very aero position (=much faster), bunny hop over obstacles easily. safer in case of unexpected situation on the road. it's very reliable too, no problems with good freewheels in my ~14yrs of riding different ss bikes. my "summer" ss bike is light enough with two brakes - 6.55kg without the w.weenie parts.
fixed bikes belong to velodrome, too many compromises/drawbacks for the road use.
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Yeah, but they’re cool.
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Also, fixed is more fun than SS.
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Yeah, but they’re cool.
they were, 15y ago ;)
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Yeah, but they’re cool.
they were, 15y ago ;)
I have never been comfortable being cool anyway.
What I liked was a French lad on PBP telling me that riding the event on fixed was folly.
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How I like to open a can of worms.
FWIW - I'll most probably go flip - flop and have both a ss and fixed in one. Ha!
Thank's for everyone's thoughts, comments, etc
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How I like to open a can of worms.
It's good, this board's been too quiet lately - you've woken us all up :)
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fixed bikes belong to velodrome, too many compromises/drawbacks for the road use.
For you, maybe. The rest of us learned how to ride a bike :)
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fixed bikes belong to velodrome, too many compromises/drawbacks for the road use.
Such as?
I havent found one yet, and I've been riding them for 15 years.
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fixed bikes belong to velodrome, too many compromises/drawbacks for the road use.
Such as?
I havent found one yet, and I've been riding them for 15 years.
i've listed some above, can also add - too slow, unsuitable to ride in groups (thus banned in most club rides), punish your sitbones on longer rides. could think of some more if there's interest ;D
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fixed bikes belong to velodrome, too many compromises/drawbacks for the road use.
Such as?
I havent found one yet, and I've been riding them for 15 years.
Once you get over pulling a track stand a few times and get good enough to do it on a freewheeli you realise that fixed aint all that.
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fixed bikes belong to velodrome, too many compromises/drawbacks for the road use.
Such as?
I havent found one yet, and I've been riding them for 15 years.
i've listed some above, can also add - too slow, unsuitable to ride in groups (thus banned in most club rides), punish your sitbones on longer rides. could think of some more if there's interest ;D
What we can ascertain from this is that you arent very good at riding fixed.
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fixed bikes belong to velodrome, too many compromises/drawbacks for the road use.
Such as?
I havent found one yet, and I've been riding them for 15 years.
Once you get over pulling a track stand a few times and get good enough to do it on a freewheeli you realise that fixed aint all that.
^Reads this. Remembers that LMT rides a recumbent. Disregards.
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fixed bikes belong to velodrome, too many compromises/drawbacks for the road use.
Such as?
I havent found one yet, and I've been riding them for 15 years.
Once you get over pulling a track stand a few times and get good enough to do it on a freewheeli you realise that fixed aint all that.
^Reads this. Remembers that LMT rides a recumbent. Disregards.
Sniggers
You're a sheep and you dont even know it.
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i've listed some above, can also add - too slow, unsuitable to ride in groups (thus banned in most club rides), punish your sitbones on longer rides. could think of some more if there's interest ;D
Banned in most club runs? Most?????????? The only ban I've seen is in pretend races (Sportifs), but they ban several types of machines. If club runs ban fixed, what other machines do they ban? Too slow? Having to wait at the top of hills for your geared mates is a pain. Why do they change down as soon as they see a rise instead of getting on with it? Punishing on sit bones? I admit I don't think I ever rode more than 120 miles on fixed, but with a decent saddle that presented no problems. Or the next day when I rode back. I don't think my clubmates riding 12 hour time trials found them a problem either.
Ok, I admit that this was a few decades ago when I was young and comparatively fit. It is just another aspect to cycling which some enjoy and some do not.
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fixed bikes belong to velodrome, too many compromises/drawbacks for the road use.
Such as?
I havent found one yet, and I've been riding them for 15 years.
Once you get over pulling a track stand a few times and get good enough to do it on a freewheeli you realise that fixed aint all that.
^Reads this. Remembers that LMT rides a recumbent. Disregards.
Sniggers
You're a sheep and you dont even know it.
I have 6 bikes. 2 of them fixed.
And what do the other 4 say about me?
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fixed bikes belong to velodrome, too many compromises/drawbacks for the road use.
Such as?
I havent found one yet, and I've been riding them for 15 years.
i've listed some above, can also add - too slow, unsuitable to ride in groups (thus banned in most club rides), punish your sitbones on longer rides. could think of some more if there's interest ;D
When cycling log was up and running it showed average speed for each bike. My fastest average speed was on my fixed.
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Getting back on topic I ride low to mid 60". Used to use 64" fixed for 100 mile reliability trials finishing in under 6hrs.
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fixed bikes belong to velodrome, too many compromises/drawbacks for the road use.
Such as?
I havent found one yet, and I've been riding them for 15 years.
Once you get over pulling a track stand a few times and get good enough to do it on a freewheeli you realise that fixed aint all that.
^Reads this. Remembers that LMT rides a recumbent. Disregards.
Sniggers
You're a sheep and you dont even know it.
I have 6 bikes. 2 of them fixed.
And what do the other 4 say about me?
Sheep,.
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I only have 1 bike with gears (4 are fixed including my TT bike).
I have used gears from 63” to 95” depending on the event.
All that said, I have really enjoyed riding my geared bike recently. It’s my first one in 10 years.
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Hope you can turn the heat off as the weather gets warmer
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Hope you can turn the heat off as the weather gets warmer
Balls. Editing.
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...unsuitable to ride in groups (thus banned in most club rides)...
Unsuitability for groups may come as a shock to riders in the points race and so on. Not to mention that many club riders rode fixed all winter, back in the day, for everything. Is this a case of new clubs banning what they don't understand? It's not as if you can't have the same brakes on a fixed as on anything else. The issue I've had is too much braking power, with the cog and a caliper on the back.
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Riding fixed encourages keeping a steady pace. If you're trying to stick with a tight group you find riding with a freewheel encourages the opposite.
Though the biggest problem is being dropped on steep descents.
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I dont know of any clubs where riding fixed is banned.
The main issue I encounter in groups is the more newby riders not realising they have to give a bit more room on sharp corners. You also have to educate them that they need to keep left on hills 😉
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the rule is mainly to maintain a coherent group all the time, i had no problem to ride ss in sync with others. if that is of relevance, our group rides averaged 31-32kph on a rolling terrain, with a few ~60kph descents.
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the rule is mainly to maintain a coherent group all the time, i had no problem to ride ss in sync with others. if that is of relevance, our group rides averaged 31-32kph on a rolling terrain, with a few ~60kph descents.
That's perfectly within fixed territory. I fail to see any issues
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the rule is mainly to maintain a coherent group all the time, i had no problem to ride ss in sync with others. if that is of relevance, our group rides averaged 31-32kph on a rolling terrain, with a few ~60kph descents.
That's perfectly within fixed territory. I fail to see any issues
there are two hills that ramp up to 15%, so the gear needs to be low enough to ride up them (for me it was 48x16), the downhills would require someone spinning at 160rpm in a group. let's say someone can spin smoothly and ride without causing danger at those cadences. by the end of descend they'll be cooked and need to recover, while the rest of the group who coasted or soft pedalled in top gear would carry on as normal. another element of risk is that it is difficult to tell when a fixie rider is slowing down as the legs keep turning regardless.
i've seen many smooth fixie riders on audaxes, but they are usually riding low(ish) gear, take their time and drag the brakes on faster/longer downhills.
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If in a tight pack then fair enough, I'm not sure why anyone would ride a fixie in those circumstances.
Now I'm just trying to remember the last time I saw a cycling club riding in a tight pack....
....in fact, never mind the last time, now trying to remember any time.
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our group was quite disciplined, with riders (6-12) of similar fitness. almost always even number, riding two abreast, front guys splitting apart and letting the group forward every few (2...5) km.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200411/c7cffc67812ca7050b21258c9ef60c7c.jpg)
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I have four fixies (two actual track* bikes, one 700c conversion and a Moulton TSR, which was crying out to be a fixie and is all the better for it).
I wouldn't ride the Dunwich Dynamo on gears now. Done it three times on fixed. Gets easier every time. Like going for a long walk.
It doesn't suit the type of racing whippet with little dinosaur arms. You have to wrestle the bike up hills and stand on the pedals a lot to save your knees. You cannot control cadence, only torque. This is not a bad thing. The human body is capable of doing a lot more than cranking out constant power at 90rpm. Leave that to the machines.
*once you're used to the toe overlap and the skippiness of the rear wheel over bumps, a track bike is a delight on the road. Track forks are stiff in all directions (round blades, not oval) which is great for honking up hill, and it's as light as a bike can be
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I've resolved that the next audax I do, I'll do fixed. I've really enjoyed getting to grips with fixed for regular length rides including up some hills. Nothing truly alpine so far but I should think something like the dun run will be well within my ability.
I don't know why it is but going up hills is a lot easier than I'd expected. I can't imagine doing SS since it wouldn't have the same momentum effect as the cranks and wheels are so integrated.
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Agreed. The weird thing with fixed is that you can be out of the saddle honking, because you think you have to, then sit down and find that it is easier than it should be
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another element of risk is that it is difficult to tell when a fixie rider is slowing down as the legs keep turning regardless.
Now you are just making stuff up :).
Once the UK opens up again, go to one of the open sessions here.
https://www.hernehillvelodrome.com/
Last time I was there, (granted over 10 years ago), there was 30+ riders in the main group, riding as tight as you want and people slowing down/speeding up.
You can easily see on it peoples hip when they're not actively pedaling, same way as you can see it on a roadie when he's still softly pedaling around versus actually putting in effort.
There was also the junior riders doing pursuit training and with their limited gearing (84"? I forget), they were pedalling a silly RPMs, as smooth as you like).
Ok, so you don't like fixed on the road. Fine. Don't do it then, but why do you insist coming into the fixed section of the forum telling us that we're doing it wrong?.
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There was also the junior riders doing pursuit training and with their limited gearing (84"? I forget), they were pedalling a silly RPMs, as smooth as you like).
Junior or Youth riders? Youth A (effectively under-16) are allowed a maximum gear development of 6.93m on the track, Junior riders (effectively under-18) have no gear restrictions nowadays. (6.93m comes out at approximately 86.6" gear)
Source: British Cycling 2020 Technical Regulations
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Ok, so you don't like fixed on the road. Fine. Don't do it then, but why do you insist coming into the fixed section of the forum telling us that we're doing it wrong?.
i had a session at herne hill a while ago, it was alright - track/fixed bikes are designed for velodromes and everyone rides in sync, more or less. i don't mind fixies ridden on the road at all (as well as tall bikes, recumbents, velomobiles), i've ridden one myself until i found out it doesn't work for me (commuting 4-5months). i was asked for reasons why they are sub-optimal on the road and listed a few (and there are more!).
i haven't said you are doing it wrong, only that there are better (ime) tools for the job.
"velo fixe" is a slave of "freewheeling" board, so i can talk about freewheels no problem, especially as they turn a toy bike into a proper one. ( <-- don't read this too seriously ;) )
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Zigzag
I did my SR last season on fixed. Middle of a fixed RRtY before the suspension of audaxing. I ride at a reasonable pace. Did a 200k in 6hrs 47mins early in the year, that’s with 2,700m climbing. I can spin at 180rpm when needed, 160 is what I do every ride. I understand if riding fixed isn’t your thing but it’s ignorant saying you can ride with geared riders (I do), ride fast (I can) or that I’m somehow I liability.
At the moment I’m riding 650b*50mm with 48/18 that puts me at 72”.
(https://www.cyclechat.net/attachments/7f86fd29-da3e-4076-9606-d74c27b1d4d8-jpeg.510703/)
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That is one weird-ass bike. Fat tyres, fixed, cowhorns, discs, mudguards...this could only be YACF ;D
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Zigzag
I did my SR last season on fixed. Middle of a fixed RRtY before the suspension of audaxing. I ride at a reasonable pace. Did a 200k in 6hrs 47mins early in the year, that’s with 2,700m climbing. I can spin at 180rpm when needed, 160 is what I do every ride. I understand if riding fixed isn’t your thing but it’s ignorant saying you can ride with geared riders (I do), ride fast (I can) or that I’m somehow I liability.
At the moment I’m riding 650b*50mm with 48/18 that puts me at 72”.
maybe you are special and could ride even better with a freewheel! ;)
i've ridden with some fixed riders which i consider special and saw them occasionally struggle to ride in a group/-etto (either on the steeper uphills or longer/technical downhills), hence my reasoned opinion in the posts above.
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That is one weird-ass bike. Fat tyres, fixed, cowhorns, discs, mudguards...this could only be YACF ;D
drop bars and aero bars. It wouldn’t be YACF without the dynamo!
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(Snip)
prettiest bike I've seen in yacf so far. Is that an eccentric BB? Always wanted to try a fixed with a hydro on the front.
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(Snip)
prettiest bike I've seen in yacf so far. Is that an eccentric BB? Always wanted to try a fixed with a hydro on the front.
Thanks, the hydros where cheap, £120 all in (no rotors). I love discs and hydros make it even better. The dropouts are regular horizontal with movable disc tab, pain to adjust really.
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I had a massive Hope Mono 4 on the front of my Inbred for a few weeks. It had to be centred using annoying little shim washers. In the end the dragging and "woo woo" sound drove me nuts and I fitted a V-brake instead.
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That is one weird-ass bike. Fat tyres, fixed, cowhorns, discs, mudguards...this could only be YACF ;D
Depravo the Roadrat doesn't have the fat tyres, but he does have aero bars, a Schmidt, a B17 and a rack ;D
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what genesis frame is that? Don't really follow "new" brands ;) any chance on a review of your machine DaT??
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what genesis frame is that? Don't really follow "new" brands ;) any chance on a review of your machine DaT??
The frame is a Genesis day one. Nothing else is stock so it may be a little pointless. It rides nice though, a bit quicker handling with the whisky fork but the trail numbers are still quite high. 650b*50mm is plush at 30psi. weighs about 10.5kg with aero bars, dynamo setup, pedals, cages etc. I’ve changed the bars to some Easton ec70ax carbon gravel bars and have an infinity saddle on the way.
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Just getting back to the OP, my riding at present is a short (27 km) route with about 400 m of climbing. To maximise the benefit I usually use my Orbit Track bike (which rides really nicely on the road) geared at 48 x 20 (approx 64.4"); I've also used my Surly Cross Check single speed geared at 42 x 18 (approx 62.6"), the difference in gearing is enough for me to feel the difference.
Like zz I expected ss to be faster than fixed because of the better downhill speed with added recuperation, but it ain't the case. On this short, hilly route the fixed wheel is about 1 km/h faster under similar effort, and climbs *much* more easily; my route includes Swains Lane which feels fine on the fixed with a bit left in reserve, but the single speed is a case of max effort to get up the hill. It's not entirely a fair comparison as the Cross Check is a heavier bike, still wearing its winter/off-road tyres.
I like the lowish fixed gear because I can get up hills (I'm not very strong) and 28 km/h = 90 rpm is a comfortable all day sort of pace. Anything above 30 km/h for me is an increasing battle against wind resistance with diminishing returns for the extra effort required so I tend not to bother, especially riding solo. Actually you are never riding solo on fixed because your friend Mo Mentum is a constant companion, helping you up the hills, and Mo lets you know immediately about the most minute changes in riding conditions (gradient, wind, rider effort, ...); on a freewheel bike you have to pay a lot more attention to detect subtle changes.
I do agree that fixed wheel is a bit anti-social in the sense that it's faster up the hills than geared/ss bikes and slower down them, so doesn't work so well if you are aiming for some group coherence.
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In my experience you spend more time going uphill than downhill so fixed bikes are very efficient machines :)
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Two of us were riding fixies on last year's Dun Run and the different up/downhill rhythm was very noticeable, even though the Dun Run isn't massively hilly. We gained more on the uphills than we lost on the downhills. I think we averaged 17mph for the last 100 miles, once we'd got off that accursed Lea Valley psyclepath.
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Two of us were riding fixies on last year's Dun Run and the different up/downhill rhythm was very noticeable, even though the Dun Run isn't massively hilly. We gained more on the uphills than we lost on the downhills. I think we averaged 17mph for the last 100 miles, once we'd got off that accursed Lea Valley psyclepath.
some stats from my relaxed round trip affair which i rode on a (geared) gravel bike:
distance: 392.7 km
elevation: + 3409 / - 3418 m
moving time: 14:40:14
calories: 7826
avg. watts: 155
avg. speed: 26.8 kph
avg. cadence: 75.2
avg. heartrate: 111.5
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In my experience you spend more time going uphill than downhill so fixed bikes are very efficient machines :)
That's physics innit ... but the speed differential between fixed and free is greater downhill than uphill is also a factor.
Let's assume that geared bikes descend 8 x faster than they climb, while fixed descend only 5 x their uphill speed, and let's suppose the fixed rider is 20% faster up the hills. Assume too that on the flat both ride at the same speed. For a ride with 400m of climbing over 20 km (ie pretty damned hilly) where the fixed rider averages 12 km/h, and 400m of descending also over 20 km the numbers pan out as follows:
Before reading on ... do these assumptions seem realistic to you?
Fixed uphill: 20 km at 12 km/h = 1h40m
Fixed downhill: 20 km at 60 km/h = 0h20m
Total climbing+descending time = 2 hrs
Geared uphill: 20 km at 10 km/h = 2h0m
(you can see which way this is going!)
Geared downhill: 20 km at 80 km/h (wow!!!) = 0h15m
Total climbing+descending time = 2h15m
It turns out that the fixed bike really is more efficient on this scenario! Small gains on the climbs outweigh big gains on the descents. While the geared bike descends 80/60 faster than the fixie (+33%) it climbs at 10/12 of the fixie speed (-17%) and all the extra time spent climbing means the fixie wins.
OK I picked the numbers partly to make the arithmetic easy, but are they really that far from reality? It suggests to me that the downhill disadvantage of fixed wheel, while real, also has a significant psychological element that amplifies the feeling of being slower. The old cycling folklore that "fixed or gears ... there's not really that much difference" has more than a grain of truth.
Personally, I really enjoy the even, steady pace when riding fixed which seems to me a very efficient way to cover long distances. Just don't try too hard to keep up on the descents!
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IME gears are faster and/or easier than fixed. How much depends on how hilly it is and how fast you're trying to go.
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Out of interest, do we know how much more efficient a fixed bike is climbing compared to a singlespeed (or geared) bike of the same weight and same gear ratio? I get that the lack of deadspots / flywheel effect improves pedaling efficiency, but ultimately isn't it still the same power vs weight equation that we have on all bikes when climbing (i.e. very little difference, and unlikely to be 12km/h vs. 10km/h)?
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Out of interest, do we know how much more efficient a fixed bike is climbing compared to a singlespeed (or geared) bike of the same weight and same gear ratio? I get that the lack of deadspots / flywheel effect improves pedaling efficiency, but ultimately isn't it still the same power vs weight equation that we have on all bikes when climbing (i.e. very little difference, and unlikely to be 12km/h vs. 10km/h)?
In answer to your first point, I don't know.
I take your point though that it is still down to the rider at the end of the day. Riding fixed means you cannot be lazy when turning a gear especially when going up hills -is this a good thing? Probably not when more than likely your cadence falls and your knees and legs start to fatigue which is poor form whatever way you look at it.
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It's a funny one with me and fixed. LMT you're right in that silly low cadences probably aren't very good for you but I find that when I do ride fixed, I really give hills a good run up and attack them so that I very rarely actually end up grinding in a silly cadence.
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Ultimately fixed is harder. But it does force you to ride efficiently I suspect
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It's just weight. A lighter bike simply goes uphill faster. Some peole say weight doesn't matter but they're probably trying to sell you a heavy bike.
Fixed is "fixed" only when you're back pedalling, ie you're slowing the bike down, ie the so-called flywheel effect.
The straight chainline probably has a minor effect.
Arn't most hill climbs won on gears?
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Ultimately fixed is harder. But it does force you to ride efficiently I suspect
How?
If you are grinding up a hill than this is inefficient. If you are working on your pedal stroke you are better off down the local gym on a Wattbike which gives a readout of any dead spots.
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It's a funny one with me and fixed. LMT you're right in that silly low cadences probably aren't very good for you but I find that when I do ride fixed, I really give hills a good run up and attack them so that I very rarely actually end up grinding in a silly cadence.
So ultimately it is down to the mindset of the rider and not the bike.
To ride in a way which accommodates the bike just makes you it's bitch, why not attack hills in the same manner but on a geared bike keeping a high cadence?
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Ultimately fixed is harder. But it does force you to ride efficiently I suspect
How?
If you are grinding up a hill than this is inefficient. If you are working on your pedal stroke you are better off down the local gym on a Wattbike which gives a readout of any dead spots.
By using the landscape to get a run up.
I see shit riding all the time on audaxers. People freewheeling downhill then struggling up the other side.
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To ride in a way which accommodates the bike just makes you it's bitch, why not attack hills in the same manner but on a geared bike keeping a high cadence?
Because humans are terrible at forcing themselves to do that kind of thing. Grinding to a halt and having to walk is a huge incentive not to.
It's just weight. A lighter bike simply goes uphill faster. Some peole say weight doesn't matter but they're probably trying to sell you a heavy bike.
The eight difference between equivalently specced bikes is negligible in the context of rider+bike(+carradice full of junk) all-up weight. Climbing speed scales linearly with weight, so tiny differences in weight make tiny differences in speed.
(Also, a lot people who ride both will be comparing a 12 kg cast iron fixie to an 8 kg carbon road bike)
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To ride in a way which accommodates the bike just makes you it's bitch, why not attack hills in the same manner but on a geared bike keeping a high cadence?
Because humans are terrible at forcing themselves to do that kind of thing. Grinding to a halt and having to walk is a huge incentive not to.
On steep climbs you're often reduced to a cadence that you can only just maintain for fear of wobbling over (the limit tended to be something around a ~16% incline for me). The power input is still roughly the same whether you're grinding up on a fixed or spinning up on a geared bike. I've climbed plenty of hills at ~25rpm, the action becomes more of a stair climber than souplesse. Sure it's less efficient than climbing at 90rpm but not hugely so.
I can't just choose to attack that same climb at 50rpm (and therefore twice the speed) as I can't maintain that power input for long enough. I can maintain 200W for a 40min climb but I can only maintain 400W for 1 minute. (Adjust power figures to suit. Work it out yourself, how long can you hold 95% FTP for and how long can you hold 190% FTP for?)
It's just weight. A lighter bike simply goes uphill faster. Some peole say weight doesn't matter but they're probably trying to sell you a heavy bike.
The eight difference between equivalently specced bikes is negligible in the context of rider+bike(+carradice full of junk) all-up weight. Climbing speed scales linearly with weight, so tiny differences in weight make tiny differences in speed.
Sure, but it's a lot easier to buy yourself a 4.5kg improvement in bike weight than it is to run a ~35,000kcal deficit in order to lose 4.5kg of body weight.
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Ultimately fixed is harder. But it does force you to ride efficiently I suspect
How?
If you are grinding up a hill than this is inefficient. If you are working on your pedal stroke you are better off down the local gym on a Wattbike which gives a readout of any dead spots.
By using the landscape to get a run up.
I see shit riding all the time on audaxers. People freewheeling downhill then struggling up the other side.
And...? ::-)
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To ride in a way which accommodates the bike just makes you it's bitch, why not attack hills in the same manner but on a geared bike keeping a high cadence?
Because humans are terrible at forcing themselves to do that kind of thing. Grinding to a halt and having to walk is a huge incentive not to.
It's just weight. A lighter bike simply goes uphill faster. Some peole say weight doesn't matter but they're probably trying to sell you a heavy bike.
The eight difference between equivalently specced bikes is negligible in the context of rider+bike(+carradice full of junk) all-up weight. Climbing speed scales linearly with weight, so tiny differences in weight make tiny differences in speed.
(Also, a lot people who ride both will be comparing a 12 kg cast iron fixie to an 8 kg carbon road bike)
You fixie folk sure are clutching at straws. ;D
bike buddy: riding the fixed today grams?
grams: 'course fam, coming to a grinding halt on those hills is a huge incentive to get up them.
Later on in the ride, grams comes to a halt after doing a paperboy that did not work whilst bike buddy carried on up the road on their 34x32. ;)
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On steep climbs you're often reduced to a cadence that you can only just maintain for fear of wobbling over (the limit tended to be something around a ~16% incline for me). The power input is still roughly the same whether you're grinding up on a fixed or spinning up on a geared bike.
I think we're talking about shorter inclines you'll find in rolling countryside on your typical audax rather than steep or sustained climbs. A fixed gear bike forces you to attack to the *actual* limit of what you're physically capable. A geared bike encourages you to slack off, even if you think you're giving it everything.
(and for the record, three quarters of the bikes in this house have multiple gears)
Sure, but it's a lot easier to buy yourself a 4.5kg improvement in bike weight than it is to run a ~35,000kcal deficit in order to lose 4.5kg of body weight.
An Ultegra groupset weighs 2.2 kg *total*. That drops to well under a kilo once you deduct the bits you'll still need on fixed (crankset, chain, at least one brake, etc). Fixed bikes just aren't that much lighter than geared bikes (and often in practice heavier).
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Why is it when someone sees or hears of a rider on fixed they want to persuade them to use gears ?
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It's like being vegan, or keto.
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Fixed bikes just aren't that much lighter than geared bikes (and often in practice heavier).
It is important to compare like with like. My 653 fixed in road going trim weighs 22lbs versus 27lbs for my 725 touring bike. Like with like. Obviously it is the mudguards weighing them both down ::-) I don't have anything carbon fibre to compare with, but I believe 22 lbs is considered too heavy in that market.
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Why is it when someone sees or hears of a rider on fixed they want to persuade them to use gears ?
Why is it (and it's been that the case in this thread) that fixie riders can extol the virtues of riding a fixed bike yet throw their toys out of their pram and have a pop at someone who offers a differing opinion.
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it appears that anyone who says fixed "helps" them on dead spot hasn't learned to pedal efficiently in circles. i didn't feel any help on fixed, unless i deliberately tried to pedal in squares, i.e. mash the pedals. next time, when you can feel that fixed bike is helping you, try to pedal so that it doesn't.
as for keeping the momentum when the road goes up - it's clearly felt on ss too and is a bit of a bummer when you are in the middle of the group. you want to accelerate while the road is just getting steeper to carry the momentum as far as possible, otherwise you know you'll suffer more!
regarding efficiency - both fixed and ss drivetrains (and bikes) save around 8w compared to geared, so in the right range they are a bit quicker - that's why i chose a ss bike for one of my challenges. headwind all day long has thwarted my attempt, but still managed 613km in 24hr on 58 x 19 (81"), and it was a good preparation for pbp (i had a geared racing bike in a support vehicle, as a backup).
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Why is it when someone sees or hears of a rider on fixed they want to persuade them to use gears ?
Why is it (and it's been that the case in this thread) that fixie riders can extol the virtues of riding a fixed bike yet throw their toys out of their pram and have a pop at someone who offers a differing opinion.
I don't think I have. I care very little what other people think. That said this is the fixed wheel section of the forum and the OP wanted advice on gearing. I don't see any of this as particularly helpful.
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Why is it when someone sees or hears of a rider on fixed they want to persuade them to use gears ?
Why is it (and it's been that the case in this thread) that fixie riders can extol the virtues of riding a fixed bike yet throw their toys out of their pram and have a pop at someone who offers a differing opinion.
I don't think I have. I care very little what other people think. That said this is the fixed wheel section of the forum and the OP wanted advice on gearing. I don't see any of this as particularly helpful.
C'est la vie, such is life on a public forum.
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It seems some people are absolutely convinced that fixed "helps" them to get over the top dead spot.
They are actually slowing down the bike!
Try pedalling in circles on both fixed and freewheel, there is no difference in feel on the pedals.
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Why is it when someone sees or hears of a rider on fixed they want to persuade them to use gears ?
Mostly because they've probably tried it and don't have the cojones/legs/patience/determination (delete as appropriate) to keep at it. </snark>
I ride long rides on fixed because it adds to the challenge. Picking the right gear such that going up the majority of climbs isn't too horrible and the flat (and descents) aren't overly spinny.
Also, I really like the fact that for the majority of the ride you don't have to think about what gear to be in, or chainline, or anything like that. And for a small portion of the ride you have something to focus your anger on.
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Why is it when someone sees or hears of a rider on fixed they want to persuade them to use gears ?
Why is it (and it's been that the case in this thread) that fixie riders can extol the virtues of riding a fixed bike yet throw their toys out of their pram and have a pop at someone who offers a differing opinion.
I don't think I have. I care very little what other people think. That said this is the fixed wheel section of the forum and the OP wanted advice on gearing. I don't see any of this as particularly helpful.
I dont think anyone has...or at least none of the fixie riders.
With regards to this little interaction as quoted, it helps to remember that the other party rides a recumbent ;)
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A recumbent fixed? Now that's a challenge! :)
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IME gears are faster and/or easier than fixed. How much depends on how hilly it is and how fast you're trying to go.
I agree Chris 👍 , although in the context of short rides, or even "short" audaxes, the difference doesn't seem to amount to much unless it's a particularly hard ride when the ease of gears wins. I never find much difference speedwise. If anything I'm a bit faster on fixed (at least until I keel over), but I'm probably not trying hard enough on my geared bike ...
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^ is probably the truth.
I've been doing a set 25 mile route recently. Gently undulating with no steepies. If I want to match the same time on gears as I do on fixed I have to really concentrate on putting in the effort. On fixed that is done for me ;D
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Why is it when someone sees or hears of a rider on fixed they want to persuade them to use gears ?
Why is it (and it's been that the case in this thread) that fixie riders can extol the virtues of riding a fixed bike yet throw their toys out of their pram and have a pop at someone who offers a differing opinion.
I don't think I have. I care very little what other people think. That said this is the fixed wheel section of the forum and the OP wanted advice on gearing. I don't see any of this as particularly helpful.
I dont think anyone has...or at least none of the fixie riders.
With regards to this little interaction as quoted, it helps to remember that the other party rides a recumbent ;)
and trolls pretty much every discussion they take part in.
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Well, I can't criticise him for that given my prior achievements in that regard, but at least I did it with a sense of humour.
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I agree Chris 👍 , although in the context of short rides, or even "short" audaxes, the difference doesn't seem to amount to much unless it's a particularly hard ride when the ease of gears wins. I never find much difference speedwise. If anything I'm a bit faster on fixed (at least until I keel over), but I'm probably not trying hard enough on my geared bike ...
Typically I'm 5 or 6 minutes quicker on gears over a flattish 27 km commute for a similar perceived effort. But I'm fat and unfit, my fixed is 1 kg heavier than my nice geared bike and it's only got a low-ish gear. It's all good fun though, until someone tells me I'm doing it wrong. :thumbsup:
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And for a small portion of the ride you have something to focus your anger on.
:thumbsup:
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To ride in a way which accommodates the bike just makes you it's bitch, why not attack hills in the same manner but on a geared bike keeping a high cadence?
Because humans are terrible at forcing themselves to do that kind of thing. Grinding to a halt and having to walk is a huge incentive not to.
QFT!
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To quote myself from https://www.apidura.com/journal/cycling-at-its-most-basic-the-appeal-of-fixed-and-single-speed-riding/
"I get a bit bored at times on a bike, mindlessly tapping out the miles and found climbing on fixed an incredibly engaging activity – I see it like rock climbing, where you have to assess every climb and pick a strategy which you then continually reassess – do I power up there, can I tack and if so watch/listen for traffic constantly, or do I just give up and walk"
Back to gearing, I rode TCRno7 on a combination of 66" and 77" fixed and flipped to the 71" freewheel five times, hating it every time - I would rather go back to gears than ride SS again. I generally pass people on climbs and don't get overtaken that much on the descents, it's really on the long, flatter sections where you lose time, especially without aerobars.
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A recumbent fixed? Now that's a challenge! :)
I'm sure it's been done. I think Aurélien Bonneteau used fixed when he set the recumbent hour record on the Bordeaux velodrome, and I've a memory of some loon in USAnia turning a BikeE into a fixer using a phantom chainring to keep everything in the right place.
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There's an awful lot of bollocks talked about fixed-wheel riding. In this it is much the same as all areas of cycling.
I've always stuck with traditional, lowish gearing, 67" or 63" (more the latter as I get older). Certainly I could get up just about anything on 67" in my younger days. I can still comfortably hold evens on the flat with either gear.
It's always a pleasure to climb on to the fixed after riding gears for a while. Conversely, it's always a pleasure to ride gears after a period on fixed.
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I once nearly hit a parked car because of my fixed wheel. I wasn't riding it at the time, and that was the problem. Out of habit, I tried to use the pedals to slow the bike down. :hand:
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Very much liked folks comments and musings etc.
Today, I clicked the order button and have ordered my first ever fixie (previously rode SS or geared machines).
:smug:
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Tell us how you get on :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Would love to report how I'm getting on, only, my bike hasn't arrived yet as it's still being built...
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How about letting the cat out of the bag and letting us know what you clicked for....? ;D
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^
Ah, of course.. I've ordered a Dolan FXE. 48 x 18. Ahh, can't wait!
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^
Ah, of course.. I've ordered a Dolan FXE. 48 x 18. Ahh, can't wait!
I've got 2 of those.
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Zigzag
I did my SR last season on fixed. Middle of a fixed RRtY before the suspension of audaxing. I ride at a reasonable pace. Did a 200k in 6hrs 47mins early in the year, that’s with 2,700m climbing. I can spin at 180rpm when needed, 160 is what I do every ride. I understand if riding fixed isn’t your thing but it’s ignorant saying you can ride with geared riders (I do), ride fast (I can) or that I’m somehow I liability.
At the moment I’m riding 650b*50mm with 48/18 that puts me at 72”.
(https://www.cyclechat.net/attachments/7f86fd29-da3e-4076-9606-d74c27b1d4d8-jpeg.510703/)
Cracking bike, DaT, what are the brakes? I'd love to fit drop-bar hydros to my Surly 1x1.
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Hey, my bike came - it's lovely.
Took my debut ride, only 5k, my first ever ride on a fixed!
I have a brown stripe in my pants! The bike controlled me - I couldn't stop or slow down well and couldn't stand on the pedals. Arghh!
I will persist and hope the fear leaves me soon.
Arghh!
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Good stuff, the fear will leave soon. For me, it went after a couple of rides. I'd get the occasional 'reminder' that I couldn't freewheel and this gradually diminished over a few weeks. You'll know you're there, when you get on a geared / freewheel bike and there's an odd almost dead like sensation at the top of the pedal stroke :) Keep at it :thumbsup:
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...You'll know you're there, when you get on a geared / freewheel bike and there's an odd almost dead like sensation at the top of the pedal stroke :) ...
And you'll know when your pedal stroke has been improved by riding fixed when you get on a geared / freewheel bike and there doesn't feel like a dead spot at the top of the pedal stroke.
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Zigzag
I did my SR last season on fixed. Middle of a fixed RRtY before the suspension of audaxing. I ride at a reasonable pace. Did a 200k in 6hrs 47mins early in the year, that’s with 2,700m climbing. I can spin at 180rpm when needed, 160 is what I do every ride. I understand if riding fixed isn’t your thing but it’s ignorant saying you can ride with geared riders (I do), ride fast (I can) or that I’m somehow I liability.
At the moment I’m riding 650b*50mm with 48/18 that puts me at 72”.
(https://www.cyclechat.net/attachments/7f86fd29-da3e-4076-9606-d74c27b1d4d8-jpeg.510703/)
Cracking bike, DaT, what are the brakes? I'd love to fit drop-bar hydros to my Surly 1x1.
Thanks, there r785 Di2 brakes. You can get a pair for around £120 from CRC.
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Cracking bike, DaT, what are the brakes? I'd love to fit drop-bar hydros to my Surly 1x1.
Thanks, there r785 Di2 brakes. You can get a pair for around £120 from CRC.
TRP Hylex are another option for drop bar hydraulic brakes.
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Hey Folks,
Am 3 days into cycling fixed. If you're interested in my experience, please read this: https://challengemenace.blogspot.com/2020/05/fixed-new-experience.html
Cheers,
Doo :smug:
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From the blog "not sure about how to stop with skill". That's what the brakes are for. The skill comes with stopping with your feet in the correct position to move off again, but that is just anticipation/experience.
I had no problems, probably because I first rode fixed at the age of 17 (50 years ago) and had the benefit of watching more experienced club mates. Plus of course, as a teenager you "just do it". This is somewhere I think the internet does not help - too many tales of "I tried to stop pedalling and it spat me off" and other horror stories that probably did not happen.
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Great blog Doo hope it grows on you! Give it two weeks and you'll be flying.
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Cracking bike, DaT, what are the brakes? I'd love to fit drop-bar hydros to my Surly 1x1.
Thanks, there r785 Di2 brakes. You can get a pair for around £120 from CRC.
What sort of levers are you using?
Its annoying to have floppy STI levers when riding fixed. And probably more expensive and complicated than simple brake levers.
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^Thanks tatanab (I certainly did read a whole bunch of horror stories) and cheers bludger - I hope you're right!
;D
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Cracking bike, DaT, what are the brakes? I'd love to fit drop-bar hydros to my Surly 1x1.
Thanks, there r785 Di2 brakes. You can get a pair for around £120 from CRC.
What sort of levers are you using?
Its annoying to have floppy STI levers when riding fixed. And probably more expensive and complicated than simple brake levers.
Imagine butchering a left DI2 lever :D I wouldn't be able to resist.
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Imagine butchering a left DI2 lever :D I wouldn't be able to resist.
it wouldn't look good though as the buttons complete the shape of the lever; without the them (or at least the dimpled one) it would appear to have a chunk missing.
eta: a better hack would be to set them up as a light/high beam control and for gps page scrolling.
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Can you still remove the lever? It usually takes a hammer, punch and a lot of welly.