Yet Another Cycling Forum
Off Topic => The Pub => Topic started by: nuttycyclist on 01 December, 2008, 09:05:18 am
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I love standing on the platform waiting for the delayed train to arrive.
I love standing for an hour to get to London with all my fellow passengers crushing my shoulders.
I love the disgust they treat me with as I have a "bicycle" with me. I love the fact that the carriage I was in today had NO luggage space under the seats where I usually put the Brompton out of the way.
I love paying over £22 for the privilege of this, knowing that for £22 I can use the motorbike for this return journey. Twice. And a bit more.
I love having all the ill people sniffing and spluttering over me.
I love the fact that now I'm here the person I'm to meet is running over an hour late due to train problems on a different line.
I am looking forward to my homeward journey.
It is a shame that I usually only do this once every couple of months. Think how happy I would be if I did this every day.
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Thank goodness the trains were privatised, or it would have been worse. tongue lodged in cheek
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I have a memory of standing on a platform, aged about five, and being frightened silly when I was suddenly engulfed in a roar of steam.
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Oh really...?
Commuting cost less under British Rail - Times Online (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article5263377.ece)
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Shock Horror - Who knew? ::-)
I'm currently commuting by train. It's not fun. But I do get on early enough on the way that I get a seat, I do feel for all the people who get the train from Streatham, who always have to stand.
Now I know I'll be using the train for a while, I thought I'd buy a week's travelcard to save money.
Daily return to London Bridge = 5*£7.50 = £37.50
Weekly travelcard Zones 1-5 = £41.40
Eh? So, even if I commute all week by train, unless I take a train at the weekend as well, I'm better off buying a ticket every day. Well done, Southern! :-\
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Poor Nutty.
Here, have an apple.
(http://www.alfiecat.co.uk/yetacf/images.jpeg)
;D ;D ;D
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Do you have one of those waterproof jackets with a pen and a book?
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Well, at least if Nutty is commuting then he's not fettling. That should save the NHS a few bob.... ;D
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Daily return to London Bridge = 5*£7.50 = £37.50
Weekly travelcard Zones 1-5 = £41.40
Do both include travel cards though?
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I have to say, taking away from the rantyness of this thread a touch, that I am loving catching the train at the moment and have been for the past 3 months.
It has cost me the best part of £500 and it has been worth every penny.
I got to the stage where I was such a nervous wreck from cycling to work and back, that I wasn't functioning properly and cycling was having a serious negative influence on my quality of life.
I would wake up dreading the journey.
During the journey I would experience multiple emotions from: "Ooh, this is actually quite nice" to gibbering terror and be forced to stop for 10mins and calm down or ride on the pavement at 5mph until I made it into the thick traffic of the city.
It was putting me off my work, and leaving work too.
I usually leave my day behind in the shower when I get in, but that ceased to work.
I stopped liking cycling.
I slept loads as I was always drained from being hopped up on adrenalin for 3hrs a day.
Now I'm commuting by train, I'm relaxed and happy to wake up. I can go to bed later and thus see more of Emily. It is a hole bored directly into my bank account, but I don't care.
I manage to do about 1 commute a week by bike.
I would be sunk without trains.
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Now I know I'll be using the train for a while, I thought I'd buy a week's travelcard to save money.
Daily return to London Bridge = 5*£7.50 = £37.50
Weekly travelcard Zones 1-5 = £41.40
Eh? So, even if I commute all week by train, unless I take a train at the weekend as well, I'm better off buying a ticket every day. Well done, Southern! :-\
I very much doubt you are comparing like with like there..
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Come on Rob, never let true like-for-like get in the way of a good rant!
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I haven't been on a late train for years. When I was a student they were terrible, which is why I didn't go home much at weekends.
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I have a memory of standing on a platform, aged about five, and being frightened silly when I was suddenly engulfed in a roar of steam.
Fortunately we now have the web for travelers needing to let off steam.
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My advice to you Nutty.
Eat lots of garlic.
They'll give you some space on the train ;)
:demon: :demon: :demon: ;D
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I have to say, taking away from the rantyness of this thread a touch, that I am loving catching the train at the moment and have been for the past 3 months.
It has cost me the best part of £500 and it has been worth every penny.
I got to the stage where I was such a nervous wreck from cycling to work and back, that I wasn't functioning properly and cycling was having a serious negative influence on my quality of life.
I would wake up dreading the journey.
During the journey I would experience multiple emotions from: "Ooh, this is actually quite nice" to gibbering terror and be forced to stop for 10mins and calm down or ride on the pavement at 5mph until I made it into the thick traffic of the city.
It was putting me off my work, and leaving work too.
I usually leave my day behind in the shower when I get in, but that ceased to work.
I stopped liking cycling.
I slept loads as I was always drained from being hopped up on adrenalin for 3hrs a day.
Now I'm commuting by train, I'm relaxed and happy to wake up. I can go to bed later and thus see more of Emily. It is a hole bored directly into my bank account, but I don't care.
I manage to do about 1 commute a week by bike.
I would be sunk without trains.
So is it that your life is made worse because of motorcars preventing you enjoying something you would normally enjoy and stopping you from doing it?
Or you just that prefer to use the train instead of cycling?
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Love trains, me. I remember 3 and a half years ago, after the tube bombings, and I admit I was nervous the first time I went back on the tube, but this geezer stood up and offered me his seat! It was so touching.
Specially cos I've never driven a train before.
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When I was vice-chairman of governors at the kids' primary school, the chairman was a train driver on the St. Pancras - Edinburgh route. A trip up alongside him was in the offing, but for one reason or another it never happened. He's long since retired so there's no chance now.
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Doing a bit of local research, I discovered that not only was the local rail line the first in the North of Scotland (predating the infamous Rocket by many years, and only a few years after the Stockton and Darlington opened) but it was the only railway that I know of to have had sail powered carriages. (It was also the first general purpose railway rather than a coal line).
..d
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The journey home was just as bad. I had to stand all the way again.
The only consolation was that I found the first class section, but I didn't go in - it was standing room only in there too ;D
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Commuting by train is a painful business but if you will live a long way from your workplace, it's your only option. I used to live in London and had a relatively short commute, now I live in the provinces and have a relatively long commute. There are good and bad points to either option.
Alternatively, I could get a much worse paid job close to home. Believe me, I've seriously considered it many times but on balance I'm happy with the choices I've made. And because they are choices I've made, I won't complain about them.
d.
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I have to say, taking away from the rantyness of this thread a touch, that I am loving catching the train at the moment and have been for the past 3 months.
It has cost me the best part of £500 and it has been worth every penny.
I got to the stage where I was such a nervous wreck from cycling to work and back, that I wasn't functioning properly and cycling was having a serious negative influence on my quality of life.
I would wake up dreading the journey.
During the journey I would experience multiple emotions from: "Ooh, this is actually quite nice" to gibbering terror and be forced to stop for 10mins and calm down or ride on the pavement at 5mph until I made it into the thick traffic of the city.
It was putting me off my work, and leaving work too.
I usually leave my day behind in the shower when I get in, but that ceased to work.
I stopped liking cycling.
I slept loads as I was always drained from being hopped up on adrenalin for 3hrs a day.
Now I'm commuting by train, I'm relaxed and happy to wake up. I can go to bed later and thus see more of Emily. It is a hole bored directly into my bank account, but I don't care.
I manage to do about 1 commute a week by bike.
I would be sunk without trains.
That is so strange, not that I mean to decry your experience. For the last week and a bit I have gone to work by train, for what we can label "logistical reasons". Every day has involved crowded hell holes that one would be (quite rightly) prohibited from conveying animals in, journeys that have taken barely 10 minutes fewer than they would have by bike, delayed and cancelled trains, people treading on my feet etc. etc. etc.
Today I got on my bike again, to enjoy the first class travel of my own carriage. Even the experience of a motorist opening his door beside me at some lights in Brixton, in order to cough up something substantial enough to live independently of his body and gob it by my foot, did not dampen my enthusiasm
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Now I know I'll be using the train for a while, I thought I'd buy a week's travelcard to save money.
Daily return to London Bridge = 5*£7.50 = £37.50
Weekly travelcard Zones 1-5 = £41.40
Eh? So, even if I commute all week by train, unless I take a train at the weekend as well, I'm better off buying a ticket every day. Well done, Southern! :-\
I very much doubt you are comparing like with like there..
Clarion
As Valiant and Rob have said, your comparison is wrong. You should be able to get a 7 day season ticket Carshalton to London Bridge, without the zone 1-5 bit, for less. £30.50 in fact.
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I could get a much worse paid job close to home. Believe me, I've seriously considered it many times but on balance I'm happy with the choices I've made. And because they are choices I've made, I won't complain about them.
what Dave said; I could cycle to Tunbridge Wells or Crawley (and probably been KSI by now) for a crap job with crap pay and probably uninspiring colleagues or spend even more money and time driving down to Brighton. I like working in London; would almost never go there otherwise (but I like coming home again even more ;))
I wish they could design proper train toilets though :sick:
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Aye up!!!
I just remembered that I did the same journey on the 19th Nov. For that journey I paid £22.10
Today I was charged... £22.10
What happened to that VAT reduction? Have I been ripped off?
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It's zero-rated. So you can have one-seventh of the tax back that you didn't pay on your last journey. So, Nutty, you are getting a real bargain! You wouldn't get that if you drove or rode your motor bike.
HM Revenue & Customs: Introduction to VAT (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/vat-introduction.htm#4)
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Aye up!!!
I just remembered that I did the same journey on the 19th Nov. For that journey I paid £22.10
Today I was charged... £22.10
What happened to that VAT reduction? Have I been ripped off?
Nope.
TaxationWeb Ltd • VAT on train fares : VAT (http://www.taxationweb.co.uk/forum/vat-on-train-fares-t3148.html)
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Ta.
But zero rated VAT they say? So that £22.10 for an hours claustrophobic standing whilst being thrown roughly around was all "fare". I have indeed been ripped off - I'd have expected the fare to have been bulked out by tax >:(
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Nutty; what was your start/end point and time of arrival in London; do you own a car and if so what type? ( I assume that the motorbike journey to the same destination is not one you would have made on this occasion). It's only fair that we compare your (less than ideal) train journey to that which you would have made without the train :) (for the purpose of this comparison I'll ignore any costs associated with your keeping a car if you indeed do)
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Southend <-> near Liverpool street.
I have a motorbike. On the motorbike it is 45 minutes door to door and costs me £5.83 total in petrol for the round trip. Every time I have taken the bike in the past I have phoned beforehand and the security guards have found a quiet corner of the car park for me to squeeze into.
On the train it takes me
8 minutes to cycle to the station.
5 minutes to queue for a ticket.
20 minutes sitting on a platform waiting for a delayed train.
50 minutes on the train.
15 minutes cycle.
A total time of 01:38 and for this pleasure I pay £22.10
But at least it's not as good as when I go to Bristol. That's 4 hours on the train (+ cycling at either end) and £135, whereas the bike is just over 3 hours (one way) and £28 petrol (return)
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Daily return to London Bridge = 5*£7.50 = £37.50
Weekly travelcard Zones 1-5 = £41.40
Eh? So, even if I commute all week by train, unless I take a train at the weekend as well, I'm better off buying a ticket every day. Well done, Southern! :-\
what's a weekly Southern rail only season (yes they do exist) to London Bridge cost? I would guess about £22.50 based on the £7.50 daily fare.
Travelcards cost much more than straight rail season tickets; if you don't use the bus and tube you don't have to pay for it (at least that's the case out side Borisland; it was when I lived in Zone 6 10 yrs ago)
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But at least it's not as good as when I go to Bristol. That's 4 hours on the train (+ cycling at either end) and £135, whereas the bike is just over 3 hours (one way) and £28 petrol (return)
I guess someone lends you the bike for free?
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I've already got the bike sitting in the garage, and so am paying all the costs irrespective of whether I use it or not. Inurance + Tax + MOT etc, and when it comes to a service that's pretty much a set fee irrespective of mileage covered - and will actually cost me more in stuffed battery and stiff pivots if the bike has covered zero miles since the previous service.
Over the years the only "consumables" other than petrol and the ones always on a service (oil/brake fluid/etc) have been tyres and brake pads - and when you break a tyre cost down over 15,000-20,000 miles it's practically negligible.
Edit: assuming my most excessive wear, I've just calculated tyre cost at £3.96 for the return Bristol trip. This bumps the total price up to £31.96, which is 23.4% of train fare. However tyre wear is got on the twisty country roads, not sitting at a steady 70mph on a motorway so £3.96 really is a stupidly high inflated price.
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well if it costs you £5.83 it will cost twice as much by car; plus the congestion charge and parking of course; and how long would the journey take?
Most commuters don't pay £22.10; they have season tickets and probably pay about half that on any one day. Ergo they pay for their journeys even when they are on holiday or off sick; they also pay for the trains track and stations to be serviced, the live wire to be electrified, and the staff to run the trains etc etc. If we had a true Pay as you Go railway you'd pay a lot more.
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Commuter Season ticket - Allowing for annual leave, plus 10 days out of the office for working elsewhere, and a handful of days sick, it's £16.50 per day whether you travel or not.
Yes that's £4.40 cheaper per day... but any day you don't travel to work for any reason you've still paid. If I was foolish enough to work in London it's still be bike each day due to quicker time and lower price (by two thirds).
But my gripe here isn't the money but the fact that for my money I'm expected to have a slower journey whilst standing crushed amongst other passengers with my face pressed against the window making a comedy effect.
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How do you find train travel when you are abroad, Nutty?
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How do you find train travel when you are abroad, Nutty?
French trains are wonderful! Wouldn't you agree, Nutty?
;)
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bargain. 30 quid from here, including five pounds for parking, for a 45 minute journey.
and I have to get the 6.30 train to be sure of getting a seat.
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But at least it's not as good as when I go to Bristol. That's 4 hours on the train (+ cycling at either end) and £135, whereas the bike is just over 3 hours (one way) and £28 petrol (return)
Thanks for subsidising my train fare - they certainly saw you coming. I'm heading down to London for a meeting in a couple of weeks time (anyone for breakfast on 19th?) and have just booked my ticket.
£134 return. First Class. Only a few quid more than the standard fare, I get coffee, wifi, no numpty drivers and can get stuff done whilst I travel.
Drive? Now there is an option. I would need to hire a car (don't have a spare one sitting around on the off chance), and it would take me a good deal longer than 6 hours. At 50 mpg it would cost about 50 quid in fuel each way.
I reckon that as long as the train is less than at least 300 quid the opportunity cost is better to travel by train than driving myself.
..d
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A few weeks ago I booked a return from London to Edinburgh for the weekend before Christmas (actually travelling up on the Saturday and returning the following Tuesday) - £30.50! :thumbsup: I used the National Rail Enquires booking service. In the past I've had to abandon the same journey because there were no trains on the day (derailment or something).
Last night I waited an hour in the freezing cold for a bus from Braintree to Chelmsford, two that were scheduled just didn't turn up and the one that did was 15 minutes late.
Public transport in this country can be a bit of a lottery.
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Now I know I'll be using the train for a while, I thought I'd buy a week's travelcard to save money.
Daily return to London Bridge = 5*£7.50 = £37.50
Weekly travelcard Zones 1-5 = £41.40
Eh? So, even if I commute all week by train, unless I take a train at the weekend as well, I'm better off buying a ticket every day. Well done, Southern! :-\
I very much doubt you are comparing like with like there..
Clarion
As Valiant and Rob have said, your comparison is wrong. You should be able to get a 7 day season ticket Carshalton to London Bridge, without the zone 1-5 bit, for less. £30.50 in fact.
That's exactly right. But you do have to engage the woman behind the window in a full-on interrogation session up to, but not including, waterboarding, before she admits that such an option exists.
Maybe next week...
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But my gripe here isn't the money but the fact that for my money I'm expected to have a slower journey whilst standing crushed amongst other passengers with my face pressed against the window making a comedy effect.
yes that's what I thought; in which case it's not the railway's fault it's all those other passengers, perhaps they should the fares up even higher to discourage them from wanting to travel before 0900? ;D
still don't understand why your fare is £22.10; according to C2C it should be;
From Station
Southend Central
£13.80 Anytime Day Return
£63.70 Weekly Season Ticket
£244.70 Monthly Season Ticket
£2,548.00 Annual Season Ticket
£9.80 Annual Season Ticket Daily Value
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Nutty, you should move to nearer to work. There's lots of people desperately trying to sell their houses. Should be a doddle.
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Stupidly, it costs the same to travel to London from Southend Victoria at peak times as it does from Rayleigh, which is 4 stations closer. Nutty is right in that it is £22.10
OTOH if he went from Benfleet it would cost him £13.00. Whereas Nutty lives about a mile from Rayleigh station, he lives just over 2 miles from Benfleet. This would take him into Fenchurch Street rather than Liverpool Street. He would spend a few minutes' less time on the train as well. :thumbsup:
That can't be bad, Nutty: a 2 mile Brompton ride saves you over £9! Aren't our railways wonderful?
Sorry (http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/en/pj/fa)
Edit: That "Sorry" was generated by the National Rail Enquiries site! ;D
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That's exactly right. But you do have to engage the woman behind the window in a full-on interrogation session up to, but not including, waterboarding, before she admits that such an option exists.
Maybe next week...
That just makes a comedy sketch come to mind.
Masked men, armed with AK74s, kick open the doors to the ticket office, shoot out the cashier windows, take a cashier hostage, holding gun to head; then demand that she sells them a season ticket.
Cue panic buttons being pressed, SAS abseiling in, etc.
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Indeed Benfleet is cheaper on the wallet - but much less convenient. Door to door journey is much longer (so the time saved on the train is outweighed by the time spent cycling - and on the return journey I have to ride of the Alps de Benfleet).
In London the journey is also longer, in fact I'd have to cycle past Liverpool Street station.
But these practical reasons aren't why I chose that line. I am well acquainted with Benfleet Station car park and environment. I have lost count of the number of hours I have sat there waiting for Mrs Nutty's delayed train to arrive so I can give her a lift home. I also know the route from Benfleet station to Laindon quite well, thanks to having had to drive there to collect Mrs Nutty hours after the train should have arrived in Benfleet.
I did post a thread on here from the last time I used that line - but can't find it at the moment.
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I feel such pangs of jealousy as I arrive at London Bridge every morning, and see the folk unfurling their Dahons, Brommies and various other folding bike-styled devices, and hopping on to scoot off to their workplaces.
I don't mind walking - really I don't. But - oh - how I would love to be awheel! :(
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Stupidly, it costs the same to travel to London from Southend Victoria at peak times as it does from Rayleigh, which is 4 stations closer.
Market forces. Too many people thinking they can live in Southend and work in London. ;)
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Market forces
Hmph. Call me a socialist if you like but I admit to suffering from the quaint delusion that public transport should be run as a public service.
d.
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Yes, I agree, however it is like roads. Put the services in and people use them. Put on more trains and people use them. We moan about people doing this on the M25, but complain when we can't do it on the railways.
We have a society that expects way more now than it did 50 years ago. We sot of expect that if we are to use public transport there should be an appropriate service to take us from home to work and back when we want in the conditions we lay down.
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Nutty, you should move to nearer to work. There's lots of people desperately trying to sell their houses. Should be a doddle.
What, sell up and move house so I can be closer to a location I need to go to to meet a 3rd party for a one off meeting?
Would I then have to sell up and move back to where I currently live (within cycling distance of the office) or would you prefer me to move within walking distance of the office. However this does then put me in a quandry with Mrs Nutty as her site visits to all her employees are in a different location each day. Maybe I should buy her a caravan so she can live in laybys alongside the road.
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If it is a one off meeting, what's all the fuss about? ;)
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We have a society that expects way more now than it did 50 years ago. We sot of expect that if we are to use public transport there should be an appropriate service to take us from home to work and back when we want in the conditions we lay down.
I get the point that commuter lines into London are oversubscribed - too many people all want to get into London at the same time every day. You can't entirely blame the train operators for that.
But when the service is being run for private profit and most of that profit is coming from a combination of government subsidy and fleecing the passengerscustomers, then I think you've got strong grounds for complaint.
Then you've got the fact that a target-based timetabling policy means lateness is built in to the timetables to avoid fines, so my train has to trundle through the Kent countryside at low speed (on the new high speed lines that have been installed at great cost) then sit outside London Bridge for ten minutes every morning waiting for its slot. My journey really ought to be half an hour shorter than it is - each way. Better timetabling would surely increase the capacity of the lines for the extra services that are needed.
Still, it gives me an extra half an hour to do the crossword.
d.
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If it is a one off meeting, what's all the fuss about? ;)
Because it's the same any time I go either to London, or anywhere by train (by virtue of the fact I have to go to London in order to get to a train station on a line that goes elsewhere).
There have been several occasions when, in hindsight, I'd wished I'd not got on the train but cycled the whole way home - it would have been quicker to do the 35 miles by bicycle than by train.
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it does seem crazy that Rayleigh / Southend costs £9 more than Benfleet for a Standard return. In the Old Days full fares were regulated and worked out per mile irrespective of line.
Wasn't there a furuore recently about a City recruiting firm that was asked not to forward applications from commuters into Fenchurch St?
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It's a strange business with our two lines.
At the weekend, a cheap day return to FST from SOC costs £6.25, from SOV to LST costs £8.90. SOV & SOC are less than half a mile apart, as are LST & FST..
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Yes, I agree, however it is like roads. Put the services in and people use them. Put on more trains and people use them. We moan about people doing this on the M25, but complain when we can't do it on the railways.
We have a society that expects way more now than it did 50 years ago. We sot of expect that if we are to use public transport there should be an appropriate service to take us from home to work and back when we want in the conditions we lay down.
Precisely. Crossrail is mooted as a great step forward for London. In addition to the advertised benefits, a lot of people are looking at moving out west, while still working in London. Why pay £500K for a pokey house in Richmond when you can get the same for £300K in Maidenhead - and with crossrail, the journey into London will be little different. Watch loads of people increase the distance they travel to work as this comes in.
Heck, I'm one of those people, though I do have the option of bike+train into Paddington at the moment, which is not so bad.
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Sounds to me like the problem isn't trains It's London.
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Sounds to me like the problem isn't trains It's London.
*nods*
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Sounds to me like the problem isn't trains It's London.
Well, if you work in certain industries it's hard to find a decent job outside of London so have no choice but to live there or commute. And if you commute, you have to put up with the fact that, as rae says, millions of other people are doing the same thing at the same time as you every day.
There's more than one problem - it isn't only the trains and it certainly isn't only London either.
d.