Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => LEL 2022 => Topic started by: Wycombewheeler on 13 January, 2022, 04:19:29 pm
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I completed PBP in 80hours in 2019, but after finishing my hands feat and seat were feeling very bruised. Nothing was raw but I could definitely feel the effects of having spent a lot of time on the bike. Certainly didn't feel like I could just do another 300km at that point
Any tips for making the extra distance/time more tolerable? Is it about doing less distance per day, and so having more time to recover / sleep? or covering off the first 1000km relatively quickly, and then just easing back for the rest of the time?
PBP had a time limit of 90 hours, and for the additional 300km of LEL we get an extra 35 as I understand it. So 80 hours would be Wednesday evening and we would have until friday afternoon to cover the extra distance.
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I rode 1900km in 7 days recently and coped with the sore backside I started to get on day one by adjusting the saddle slightly (backwards / forwards / tilting it) every night to relieve the pressure for the next day. It definitely worked and helped me manage the discomfort. I'm constantly micro adjusting the saddle nowadays, so this doesn't faze me, but the idea of doing such a thing would've freaked me out a few years ago.
I also washed and dried my shorts every night and made sure I was clean and had enough chamois cream. I still felt a bit of discomfort most of the time, but it was manageable.
I used clip on TT bars too, which helped my hands, shoulders and arms. I'd definitely recommend them because you can change position so much more, but as with all of what I've just said, you should try it all out thoroughly first and work out what's right for you, well in advance of the start of LEL !
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I found LEL and Mille Miglia easier in some ways that PBP. It might be the speed I ride, but the slower time limit meant that I could spend less time riding in the night. The longer spells out of the saddle helped me recover and I think was better for the undercarriage. If I recall correctly - on Mille Miglia after riding for 24 hours overnight on the first state my sleep stops were 6 hours, 7 hours, 5.5 hours, and 4 hours (that was shorter because my co-rider wanted to get back by a certain time).
The other thing was making good use of drop bags (halfway on LEL and 660km and 1000km on Mille Miglia).
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I think how much you suffer will depend upon your speed on the road. Faster riders get more time off the bike, more recovery. Well apart from Anco whose longest control stop was 17 mins in 2017. They also put more force through the pedals meaning less force on saddle and bars.
I got Shermer’s neck on WAWA 16, which was kicking in from 1850km. I sailed through 1500km without a care in the world. You may be okay with 1500km you may not.
I would look at your body’s alignment and weight balance when riding. How much weight is on the hands, how much on the saddle, how much on the pedals? How well aligned is your head and neck with your spine? Are you bending your neck back to look up the road? How much effort is it taking to hold the head up? How much tension in the shoulders? How well aligned are your hands, wrists , and arms? These things obviously get worse the more fatigued you are, and begin to sit on the bike like a sack of potatoes. I wasn’t aware of just how much upper body tension and effort there was in my position riding on my road bike till I got my recumbent.
I definitely think time off the bike during the ride , with your upper body reclined, will help. But if your neck goes, as I found out, even 36 hours off the bike, when you do finally stop, won’t be enough to recover.
Upper body strengthening exercises in the next 7 months will no doubt help.
As for feet, are you talking about hot foot? On all my multi day audaxes I take my shoes off at the controls. This will be enforced at LEL. I’ve found letting your feet naturally spread out every 3-4 hours helps avoid hot foot.
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I would look at your body’s alignment and weight balance when riding. How much weight is on the hands, how much on the saddle, how much on the pedals? How well aligned is your head and neck with your spine? Are you bending your neck back to look up the road? How much effort is it taking to hold the head up?
Upper body strengthening exercises in the next 7 months will no doubt help.
As for feet, are you talking about hot foot? On all my multi day audaxes I take my shoes off at the controls. This will be enforced at LEL. I’ve found letting your feet naturally spread out every 3-4 hours helps avoid hot foot.
Pretty sure i have too much weight on my hands, core strengthening would definitely help.
Yes I do bend my neck back to look up the road, but it isn't much effort and I've never had shermers neck. Although longer distance and more time, wo knows, it may be a factor. I could look to a more upright riding position, but of course that comes with increased riding time due to slower riding speed.
I think with PBP being 55 hours on the bike, and my longest previous event being 25 hours on the bike on a 600 meant there was quite a big step up in duration. BUT LEL will likely be 85 hours on the bike, over 3x what I will experience in any of the build up rides, this is such a big increase and riding a 1000km event in prep would probably not get approval.
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As for feet, are you talking about hot foot? On all my multi day audaxes I take my shoes off at the controls. This will be enforced at LEL. I’ve found letting your feet naturally spread out every 3-4 hours helps avoid hot foot.
+1 for this. Take your shoes off at every opportunity. Socks as well if you can.
The other trick I find useful for shoes is to use sorbothane insoles. Or even two if you can fit them in without unduly compressing your feet.
For the saddle area, the best thing to do is to keep everything as clean as you can. Wash if possible, if not, apply antiseptic cream. Also change your shorts every so often. Even putting on a fresh dirty pair can be better the same pair on. For LEL I would be looking to take three pairs.
The only problem I have ever had with my hands was that one finger was numb for a couple of weeks after my first PBP. I attributed this to keeping the same position on the bars for too long, changing position regualrly is generally a good thing to do and the problem certainly hasn't recurred. So I'd recommend this.
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Sandals. Nul points for style, especially with socks at night. 10/10 for comfort, room for expansion etc.
I have to remember to get out of the saddle more (on gears) and move hands around more (on fixed). Down-tube levers on my geared Holdsworth force regular hand position changing.
Stretch while queueing and chatting at controls.
I also aim to underperform right from the start. ;D
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Minor point: stop about 50 yards before you arrive at the control and have a widdle. This means you do not then need to walk into the gents urinals wearing only socks, having taken off your shoes. Small point but important.
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Minor point: stop about 50 yards before you arrive at the control and have a widdle. This means you do not then need to walk into the gents urinals wearing only socks, having taken off your shoes. Small point but important.
And make sure that LEL never uses the same controls twice!
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Minor point: stop about 50 yards before you arrive at the control and have a widdle. This means you do not then need to walk into the gents urinals wearing only socks, having taken off your shoes. Small point but important.
And make sure that LEL never uses the same controls twice!
Agreed, it's a bloody stupid suggestion.
J
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Minor point: stop about 50 yards before you arrive at the control and have a widdle. This means you do not then need to walk into the gents urinals wearing only socks, having taken off your shoes. Small point but important.
And make sure that LEL never uses the same controls twice!
Agreed, it's a bloody stupid suggestion.
J
Catch 22. If no men piss on the floor, do men have to worry about walking around in piss; or do they just "widdle" where they want?
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Minor point: stop about 50 yards before you arrive at the control and have a widdle. This means you do not then need to walk into the gents urinals wearing only socks, having taken off your shoes. Small point but important.
50 yards is way to near. 2-5km is better. You're still in the countryside then so you can pee in a more civilised way. Also avoids standing in line.
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Minor point: stop about 50 yards before you arrive at the control and have a widdle.
Try that within 50 yards of Spalding and it'll be a shop doorway or a front garden.
If caught doing that I'd hope that'd be your card invalidated.
We'll away from any habitation is a totally different matter (we've all done it)
(I've no idea about any other control locations)
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50 yards is way too near. 2-5km is better. You're still in the countryside then so you can pee in a more civilised way. Also avoids standing in line.
I was thinking of the driveway into a school in darkness, not the high street at 3pm! But the point stands, i think, although i stand corrected on the 50 yards rule. ☹️
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Minor point: stop about 50 yards before you arrive at the control and have a widdle.
Try that within 50 yards of Spalding and it'll be a shop doorway or a front garden.
If caught doing that I'd hope that'd be your card invalidated.
We'll away from any habitation is a totally different matter (we've all done it)
(I've no idea about any other control locations)
Works every where but in the Fens - when our ACME led peloton stopped for a bio-break on the way back it was at the only set of trees for miles around and resulted in a bit of disturbance from the natives as 20+ or so male & female riders all tried to use the line of trees in a field which was another field away from a small terrace of a couple of houses.... there was offers of fights and all sorts from both sides! :o :o
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For the saddle area, the best thing to do is to keep everything as clean as you can. Wash if possible, if not, apply antiseptic cream. Also change your shorts every so often. Even putting on a fresh dirty pair can be better the same pair on. For LEL I would be looking to take three pairs.
I thought I'd made clear that my seat was not raw, only felt bruised. (Keeping clean is definitely sound advice, along with chamois cream before riding and sudacrem when stopping) but despite this I still didn't want to sit on the bike for another day. 24 hours later it was fine, unlike when I came back from my first 1000 and didn't want to ride for several days. In fact I recall having to cycle from st pancras to marylebone standing.
Personally I'll be going for more than 3 pairs, two bag drops each visited twice = 4 fresh pairs of shorts and socks if wanted.
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Core strength exercises definitely help. As does a lot of moving around on the bike; I get out of the saddle on many climbs, not because I can't do them sitting down but because it gets blood flowing again, I always go into a aero tuck with my arse in the air on descents etc.
For shorts, I found that having pairs from different manufacturers was a winning strategy. Seams, pad edges, pressure distribution etc. are all slightly different, so helps to spread the load. For LEL that means three pairs; one to start in and one in each bag. I only use the "good" pairs on long rides, all the failures that weren't quite right get worn out on commutes and 200k type rides.
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I only use the "good" pairs on long rides, all the failures that weren't quite right get worn out on commutes and 200k type rides.
;D
Only a randonneur would understand this sentence.
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Indeed. The Present Mrs Mmmmartin was delighted when i told her the Assos bibshorts I'd bought had a £15 discount. Fortunately she didn't ask, and i forgot to mention, that this was a 10 per cent discount. 😄😉
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I have bought a pair of lightweight minimalist running shoes.
Easy to pack, easy to put on, have used them on rides.
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The Merrel Vaporglove range would work well for that. I use them when in the Alpine huts or bike touring etc.
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Minor point: stop about 50 yards before you arrive at the control and have a widdle. This means you do not then need to walk into the gents urinals wearing only socks, having taken off your shoes. Small point but important.
And make sure that LEL never uses the same controls twice!
Agreed, it's a bloody stupid suggestion.
J
Catch 22. If no men piss on the floor, do men have to worry about walking around in piss; or do they just "widdle" where they want?
Have you never seen a wolf marking his territory? ??? ???
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In 2013 it was no cleated shoes in the controls but otherwise okay. Does anyone know if it was the same in 2017/likely to be the same this time round?
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In 2013 it was no cleated shoes in the controls but otherwise okay. Does anyone know if it was the same in 2017/likely to be the same this time round?
it was at Moffat - and will be again this year ...
I can't speak for other controls though.
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A pair of cheap waders - or flip-flops as we used to call them - can be an asset at controls where shoes need to come off. Weigh next to nothing and easy to strap on to a saddlebag.
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That exactly what I was thinking of, that or some water shoes or sandals. But didn't want to carry them if it was a no shoes at all policy.
Sounds like it's likely to be alright :thumbsup:
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A pair of cheap waders - or flip-flops as we used to call them - can be an asset at controls where shoes need to come off. Weigh next to nothing and easy to strap on to a saddlebag.
Waders?
https://eu.patagonia.com/gb/en/shop/mens-waders
If we need these to enter the toilets :sick: I'll stick to finding somewhere behind a hedge in the countryside
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A pair of cheap waders - or flip-flops as we used to call them - can be an asset at controls where shoes need to come off. Weigh next to nothing and easy to strap on to a saddlebag.
I /think/ that the rule was introduced to prevent damage to floors from cleats (and maybe slips). To ensure consistency (dazed riders & language issues) the same rule was introduced at all controls.
Flip flops / Beach shoes should be fine I'd guess.
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I use these https://www.screwfix.com/p/disposable-overshoes-blue-size-one-size-fits-all-100-pack/3734K (https://www.screwfix.com/p/disposable-overshoes-blue-size-one-size-fits-all-100-pack/3734K) Can be resuesd if toilets are clean. Remember to make sure your shoes are easily identifiable.
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50 yards is way too near. 2-5km is better. You're still in the countryside then so you can pee in a more civilised way. Also avoids standing in line.
I was thinking of the driveway into a school in darkness, not the high street at 3pm! But the point stands, i think, although i stand corrected on the 50 yards rule. ☹️
I think the substance of your comment was clear to all and it's actually a very good piece of advice, but there are always a few that feel compelled to be pedantic...
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I think riding a comfortable yet sporty handling bike helps. I used to ride a custom 531C bike that was great, but since early 2015 I’ve ridden a Specialized Roubaix, which is probably even better. Being full carbon makes it light and responsive and the geometry and carbon seat post give added comfort. A responsive bike makes being more inclined to get out of the saddle occasionally and give my backside a rest. I upgraded the saddle to a Specialized Toupe, which despite seeming like a rock hard racing saddle is amazingly comfy for long rides. It has a cut out to relieve pressure where it matters.
I find MTB shoes and SPD pedals most practical and best suited to Audax rides and err on the large side to allow for expansion room and thicker socks.
After hurting my hip, I flipped the stem, which raised my handlebars and regained my comfort. This means that my hands put less pressure on the bars, and I have gel strips under thick cork type bar tape and wear gel mitts for further protection. I usually have clip on aero bars for extra changes of hand position but managed without these on 2015 PBP and 2017 LEL. I missed them heading south on the fens of course.
I don’t wear bib shorts and mostly wear dhb Aeron shorts. I don’t think I’ve ever paid more than £30 for a pair of cycling shorts. On the 2017 LEL, I wore the same pair of old CoolMax shorts for the whole ride, despite carrying spare shorts and having more pairs in my drop bags at Thirsk and Edinburgh. This was because I was comfortable and didn’t want to risk changing them for a different brand. I usually ride PBP in one pair of shorts too, but carry a spare pair in my bag just in case.
I took some crocs to wear at controls on LEL. Like others, I had a wee a few km before controls if I needed one, if there was somewhere discrete and convenient. Otherwise I waited until the control.
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A pair of cheap waders - or flip-flops as we used to call them - can be an asset at controls where shoes need to come off. Weigh next to nothing and easy to strap on to a saddlebag.
Waders?
https://eu.patagonia.com/gb/en/shop/mens-waders
If we need these to enter the toilets :sick: I'll stick to finding somewhere behind a hedge in the countryside
Maybe it's a yoof thing but my teenage son always refers to what I would call flip-flops as 'waders'.
The other sort would have been very useful on the road between Innerleithen and Eskdalemuir in 2009!
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A pair of cheap waders - or flip-flops as we used to call them - can be an asset at controls where shoes need to come off. Weigh next to nothing and easy to strap on to a saddlebag.
Waders?
https://eu.patagonia.com/gb/en/shop/mens-waders
If we need these to enter the toilets :sick: I'll stick to finding somewhere behind a hedge in the countryside
Maybe it's a yoof thing but my teenage son always refers to what I would call flip-flops as 'waders'.
The other sort would have been very useful on the road between Innerleithen and Eskdalemuir in 2009!
I have never ever heard them referred to them as waders. Sliders, yeah, but waders? Nah. In the UK?
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A pair of cheap waders - or flip-flops as we used to call them - can be an asset at controls where shoes need to come off. Weigh next to nothing and easy to strap on to a saddlebag.
Waders?
https://eu.patagonia.com/gb/en/shop/mens-waders
If we need these to enter the toilets :sick: I'll stick to finding somewhere behind a hedge in the countryside
Maybe it's a yoof thing but my teenage son always refers to what I would call flip-flops as 'waders'.
The other sort would have been very useful on the road between Innerleithen and Eskdalemuir in 2009!
I have never ever heard them referred to them as waders. Sliders, yeah, but waders? Nah. In the UK?
Yebbut yoof.
If you think they're wrong it only means you're old.
Eventually they'll be wrong when the next yoof are right.
Sick init.
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I have never ever heard them referred to them as waders. Sliders, yeah, but waders? Nah. In the UK?
Yebbut yoof.
If you think they're wrong it only means you're old.
Eventually they'll be wrong when the next yoof are right.
Sick init.
I know I'm getting on a bit, but I still know my drill from my grime.
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I use these https://www.screwfix.com/p/disposable-overshoes-blue-size-one-size-fits-all-100-pack/3734K (https://www.screwfix.com/p/disposable-overshoes-blue-size-one-size-fits-all-100-pack/3734K) Can be resuesd if toilets are clean. Remember to make sure your shoes are easily identifiable.
These disposable overshoes (sometimes used for spectators to walk in to watch from a bench on the side of a swimming pool) were available at most if not all controls in 2017. Though I didn't enter St Ives (after 100km) and thereafter stayed ahead of the bulge.