Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => On The Road => Topic started by: Canardly on 14 June, 2022, 11:54:13 am
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WIE. Are we a bit strapped for cash atm?
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Maybe because leasing is the predominant method of acquiring an EV?
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Well it was either that or extend them to ebikes...
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Let's be honest: it was a subsidy for the already rich, like the original massive FIT for solar panels.
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Let's be honest: it was a subsidy for the already rich, like the original massive FIT for solar panels.
Indeed. There's an argument for such in terms of stimulating the development of the technology. But we're at the point where solar is now cheap enough that it's a no-brainer for anyone who uses electricity and is rich enough to own a roof, and EVs are superior to combustion engines in enough respects that the future of motoring is now clearly going to be electric.
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Had a quick read of the reports
Nice big stick to beat the motor trade with: Sell x% of your vehicles as full EV or pay us money.
That the Toyota Corolla Hybrid Estate and the MG Electric estate are similar price (as discussed elsewhere on this forum) the only real difference being the later has less than half the range; and the MG costing about 1/4 of the price to run even though the Toyota does around 50mpg on a decent run and that's with me enjoying accelerating with both the motors and the engine at full chat (I accept I don't control this, the car does all I do is plant it and let the CVT transmission do the job).
THis governmnet of course being Tory I expect the consumer stick to be "We're not cutting fuel duty any further, go and buy electric and get panels on your roof + battery to charge it)
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we're at the point where solar is now cheap enough that it's a no-brainer for anyone who uses electricity and is rich enough to own a roof
Really? 6+k upfront is apparently something I have kicking about because I own my own roof? I wouldn't call it a no-brainer; before the leap in energy prices leapt up an online calculator suggested that solar would be a net loss over its lifetime.
Remember, even us homeowners need to eat - and cost rises mean that we don't necessarily have the money for solar panels clogging up the place.
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That's mostly the installation cost, thobut. It's expensive in the UK because labour is expensive and there are complicated bureaucratic hurdles to jump through before connecting to the grid, not because solar panels and inverters are expensive. It's even worse in USAnia (where, I note, they often have more sunshine and consequently use more electrons than we do) where it's basically impractical unless you're a business.
Sure, it's a marginal financial investment, depending on how much power you use (and even if you're a heavy user, you're probably better off buying shares in a fossil fuel company or something), but the advantages of clean, independent energy go beyond financial returns.
And sure, anything that costs money costs money. We were talking about EVs, which are a lot more expensive than £6k, and are currently impractical for most people who don't own a house with off-street parking. The question is at what point do you stop subsidising a technology that immediately benefits the well-off in order to stimulate the development of the technology. I'd say we're past that point, if only because other countries have done the job better than we have, and the technology is now mature. What we need is regulation to make the technology accessible to non-home-owners. Be that public charging, rules for landlords (eg. the Norwegians require landlords that provide a parking space allow an EV charger to be installed, as well as more obvious things like insulation standards), and so on.
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Seems The Man is building a 101 MW solar power facility in or near Battle Mountain!
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Roof EVs would be great if they got the subsidies that the fossil fuel industries got.
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It would be far better if there were subsidies on e-bikes. But that's not going to happen here in the UK.
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I like what he's saying!
But there are subsidies of sorts, if your employer has a b2w scheme that extends above the 1k limit (mine doesn't).
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They are continuing the subsidies for electric motorbikes/mopeds for now. Though they have been significantly reduced, ie max of £500.
Or electric vans. Perhaps more useful than a car. Not sure how the prices compare?
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I think my main fear for solar panels, like LED light bulbs, is that they will be Chinese shite that will crap out years before they achieve the projected payback.
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The cost of solar has gone up significantly since mid 2021.
Loads of 'parked' projects started to push on in response to rising wholesale prices. They then got a refresh on the construction price and had a bit of a shock. Developers end up playing whack a mole.
Underlying commodity costs to build the panels are up. They are built in China and they are now keeping 50% of production to meet their own carbon requirements. That factories are run on power from coal fired power plants which have to be interrupted to avoid emissions ceiling. The cost of freight has increased ten-fold since covid.
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If you shop around, you can get a 10kWh battery and 4kW of solar panels for about £10 grand. That's a lot of money, but it does mean that (providing you can get a 2 stage tariff) you will very rarely need to buy electricity from the grid at full price again.
By the time they canned it, the EV grant was £1,500 on cars under £35,000. Given there are no EVs under £20,000, that's not going to be the difference maker when buying one or not, so seems somewhat pointless. They said they were putting the money into subsidising installation of public charging points instead - that seems like a more sensible use of funds to me.
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I think my main fear for solar panels, like LED light bulbs, is that they will be Chinese shite that will crap out years before they achieve the projected payback.
A reasonable concern. Though there's a lot more scope for under-engineering a light bulb. I suppose you really need enough warranty on the installation to cover the first part of the bathtub curve.
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If you shop around, you can get a 10kWh battery and 4kW of solar panels for about £10 grand. That's a lot of money, but it does mean that (providing you can get a 2 stage tariff) you will very rarely need to buy electricity from the grid at full price again.
As long as you don’t live somewhere with winter or clouds.
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If you shop around, you can get a 10kWh battery and 4kW of solar panels for about £10 grand. That's a lot of money, but it does mean that (providing you can get a 2 stage tariff) you will very rarely need to buy electricity from the grid at full price again.
As long as you don’t live somewhere with winter or clouds.
Batteries still work when it's winter or cloudy. You might not have 'free' solar power, but you can at least run almost everything on off-peak (predominantly nuclear and renewable) electrons.
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If you shop around, you can get a 10kWh battery and 4kW of solar panels for about £10 grand. That's a lot of money, but it does mean that (providing you can get a 2 stage tariff) you will very rarely need to buy electricity from the grid at full price again.
Really? I would have expected more than half of that just for the solar PV. That said an electrician colleague of mine fit his for a fraction of that price - a supported (socialist style) govt rollout could do it for half the price, or less.
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We bought* an EV in January and collected in late May. The original enquiry we made was last October when the car fell into the original subsidy. Approx 2 weeks before we ordered the car the threshold dropped and our car was no longer available with the subsidy.
In October, the quote including the subsidy included 4% APR on the finance deal we took. In January when we placed the order the company we bought from were offering the same car on 0% APR albeit on a slightly higher deposit. The net result was that we are paying approximately £1000 less for the car without the subsidy than we would have had we rushed in to buy it before it was cut (although sneaky government inc. didn't actually provide any notice for this very reason).
*yes I know I'm weird, imagine actually buying and owning something outright
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We bought* an EV in January and collected in late May.
Which make and model?
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Peugeot E-208 Gt
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If you shop around, you can get a 10kWh battery and 4kW of solar panels for about £10 grand. That's a lot of money, but it does mean that (providing you can get a 2 stage tariff) you will very rarely need to buy electricity from the grid at full price again.
Really? I would have expected more than half of that just for the solar PV. That said an electrician colleague of mine fit his for a fraction of that price - a supported (socialist style) govt rollout could do it for half the price, or less.
If you buy them separately, they are about 6 grand for either the battery or the solar, but if you buy together then you only need 1 inverter, there's less wiring and labour needed, and you don't have to pay the VAT on the battery. I'm sure a bulk rollout could do it for considerably less (as could putting it on new housing as it is built).
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Of course a bulk rollout run by the govt would be too obvious as it would solve too many problems at once.
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The last time I looked it would have taken 25 years for any panels I bought for this house to pay for themselves. I don't expect to reach 93 years of age, so I'd never see a return on my investment.
But now, of course, electricity is a lot more expensive than it was. I'm still paying Ecotricity through the nose for my electrons. The month up to 15/7/22 I paid £111 for leccy. I think I've charged the car only once in that time, maybe twice. That seems an awful lot for running a washing machine, a dishwasher, cooking, a couple of computers and fridge & freezer.
I'm going to do more washing up by hand. All the water in the tank is solar heated up to 60°C at this time of year, whereas both machines are cold fill. I've no idea how much difference that will make.
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(as could putting [solar] on new housing as it is built).
If you're doing it at build time, you can use panels designed to work instead of roof tiles, which further saves cost. Would require people to think about housing as something other than a bland investment opportunity, of course.