Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Freewheeling => Topic started by: Ruthie on 26 January, 2023, 03:28:52 pm

Title: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Ruthie on 26 January, 2023, 03:28:52 pm
I need to know whether I’m being ripped off.

New headset bearings plus grease.
New 9-speed chain and cassette
New jockey wheels
New brake blocks
Hubs greased
New BB
New gear cables
New brake cables

All fitted at the LBS

How much is a reasonable price, including labour, d’you think?

ETA: it’s a 19 year old Dawes Horizon, basic generic kit, nothing fancy.
Title: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: perpetual dan on 26 January, 2023, 03:40:56 pm
My LBS has Labour charges on their website. Sussex prices, but probably £110 for the work. I’d guess at least another £100 for the bits, depending on how shiny. But I’ve not needed to buy more than the odd cable since shipping got more expensive, so it’s quite possibly more. Plus something if they had to do much cleaning before starting work.

So, maybe £250? More?
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Polar Bear on 26 January, 2023, 03:58:14 pm
I'm guessing that would be about 3 hours work and at least a ton for parts

I'd expect a £200 bill myself but luckily I can do those jobs so it's parts and my time.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Ruthie on 26 January, 2023, 04:07:09 pm
Ah, that makes me feel a bit better. Thank you.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: matthew on 26 January, 2023, 04:08:47 pm
It's a while since I bought any components but based on the list of bits I would be expecting £100-150 depending on if they have used low end components or in stock slightly higher end components. I would expect the labour to be 3-4 hours which becomes a function of their hourly rate but another £60-120, though given your region £30 an hour is probably excessive but in my southern climes to rent the shop space would probably drive that. All said I would be expecting to pay £250-270 here but would hope to pay £200-250 in areas where shop rents are more reasonable.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Captain Nemo on 26 January, 2023, 04:11:34 pm
Similarly, I would do that as home jobs. When LBS labour taken into account I'd put it at nearer £250 than £200 (possibly more if cable replacement includes outers as well as inners - bar taping, etc).
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Polar Bear on 26 January, 2023, 04:34:47 pm
Dawes Horizon is a good, solid, practical workhorse of a bike.  Worth keeping on the road imo.

mllePB has a 1Down.  Superceded by the Sardar but with Reynolds 631? tubing it made for a brilliant All rounder from a whip around the local reservoir to weeks of loaded touring.  I couldn't find one in my size at the time so I ended up having a Roberts custom frame instead.  Would have been happy with a Dawes though.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: hatler on 26 January, 2023, 04:48:09 pm
I reckoned on £85 for the bits and then about £150 for labour so £235.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Ruthie on 26 January, 2023, 04:52:47 pm
It’s a brilliant bike, it’s served time as a loaded tourer, a commuter, an Audax bike, and at the moment it has studded ice tyres for reliable transport.

I haven’t a clue about doing those jobs myself. I’m the kind of learner who needs someone to talk me through it while I do it, so my hands can learn as well as my brain. Ain’t nobody got that much patience!!

Thanks everyone.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Adam on 26 January, 2023, 07:56:15 pm
In my shop in sunny Bognor Regis, the cost for that list would be around £200-£220.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Hot Flatus on 26 January, 2023, 08:09:10 pm
£150 absolute minimum
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 26 January, 2023, 08:37:18 pm
When you break it down by mileage you do and take fuel costs out-of it it's basically peanuts even if its not pleasant at point of


From my personal experience the hubs greasing would be the part I found hardest but that's just because it's a bit catchy monkey getting them set at right tension, the BB can also be a fiddle and thinking as a I type once you've taken into account some of the tooling makes it better value still

However a lot of those jobs can easily be learnt and if that takes  your fancy there is almost certainly either a YACFer or local bike repair thing where you could learn. I've learnt most those myself by generally being fairly hard up and having to learn
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: toontra on 26 January, 2023, 08:44:24 pm
I was going to say £250 before reading any posts below the first. Maybe London prices are a tad higher but that would seem reasonable for the time/work involved, and components are only getting more expensive.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: fd3 on 26 January, 2023, 09:11:43 pm
I had a similar moment on collecting my wife's bike where she'd paid for them to swap the (disk) brake pads and I bought a spare pair - I'm used to buying V-brake pads online for <£10 so I "assumed" the price was for a pair...  best part of £80 later I am still much better off than if we had to pay for car brakes.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Paul H on 26 January, 2023, 09:28:50 pm
If you want a go yourself, there might be some courses in your area, I've seen a few advertised around here. 
I'd agree with others, I'd expect a £200 - £250 bill, good news is they seem to have covered all the stuff that regularly needs it, so it ought to be good for a long while.
Another advantage of DIY is a LBS might replace something that a home mechanic might get some more use from, that isn't a criticism, they want you to be happy and not need to come back a month later, it just doesn't always represent the best value.  Likewise, labour is such a big part of the bill (Understandably, I doubt anyone is getting rich) it's often more economical to replace than to service. I think I do a better job than an LBS, not because I have the skills, but because I'm happy to spend an entire day getting something just right, even if they did it in half the time, no one would want the bill.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Snakehips on 26 January, 2023, 09:46:03 pm
So what's the answer? What have they quoted? Or did I miss that bit?
I feel I need to know because I have several old bits of crap that could do with some attention, but I fear that the cost would be uneconomic. Which is why I just buy new (highly discounted) bikes.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Ruthie on 26 January, 2023, 11:55:39 pm
I was quoted £265. I won’t be collecting it till Saturday  thobut, so the final total might still change.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: giropaul on 27 January, 2023, 07:14:42 am
I think that what you’re being charged is fair and decent.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Paul H on 27 January, 2023, 08:29:50 am
Quote from: Ruthie on 26 January, 2023, 11:55:39 pm
I was quoted £265. I won’t be collecting it till Saturday  thobut, so the final total might still change.
That looks a bit on the high side, but not excessively so.  The other thing to consider is the quality of components used, chain and cassette for example have widely differing prices.  A LBS is also likely to be charging close to RRP, they're buying small quantities via a distributor, there won't be much margin for discounts. Doing it yourself allows you to shop around and buy cheaper than the LBS is able to sell.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: rogerzilla on 27 January, 2023, 09:08:54 am
The quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten, so hopefully it is a good job.  I'm not sure how anyone can strip and regrease a hub (all work being hidden) as diligently as the owner would.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: L CC on 27 January, 2023, 10:02:04 am
Using the LBS for servicing keeps them in business and that helps make sure they're there when you need them for something you can't do yourself.

(I nearly never do any bike work. If we had an LBS in my village I'd get them to do my punctures, even my bike cleaning.)
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 27 January, 2023, 11:16:42 am
So that's something along the lines of:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 27 January, 2023, 11:46:02 am
Parts are a fortune. I recently replaced chain, jockey wheels, cassette, crankset. I think I paid about £130 for the parts and that was with a lot of shopping around.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Ruthie on 27 January, 2023, 12:36:51 pm
I did a course once, with my ex, and it was good but there wasn’t enough time to cover very much. We spent half an hour learning to change a tyre and fix a puncture.

It was a group class, everyone had a slightly different bike and that was a big time sink.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Polar Bear on 27 January, 2023, 12:43:49 pm
I suppose an awful lot depends upon the conscientiousness of the individual, their pride in their own work.

I know that I would want to do a job to a level which I would do it for myself.  Of course the big unanswered question there is, how high are my own standards. 

I'm guessing that if you had asked our infrequently resident bicycle necromancer he would have given you a similar quote.  Many a time has he detailed a tale of a bso appearing in his shop with nothing working and everything needing replacing and the owner thinking that it can be restored to full health for a cup of tea and a few friendly slaps on the back accompanied by the usual racist and sexist diatribe.**

**  Aspects of this may have been over emphasised for dramatic effect.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Ruthie on 27 January, 2023, 12:54:30 pm
Having to buy tools (headset press, special spanners, clamps) is one of the things that put me off. And my hands and arms are quite weak these days, it’s very frustrating.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Flite on 27 January, 2023, 01:23:58 pm
Quote
I nearly never do any bike work. If we had an LBS in my village I'd get them to do my punctures, even my bike cleaning.

Quite agree.
We have division of labour up here.
I ride bike, I break bike, I wash bike, HE MENDS BIKE.
On the rare occcasions he rides his bike, I do wash that as well!
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: matthew on 27 January, 2023, 02:03:22 pm
Quote from: L CC on 27 January, 2023, 10:02:04 am
Using the LBS for servicing keeps them in business and that helps make sure they're there when you need them for something you can't do yourself.

(I nearly never do any bike work. If we had an LBS in my village I'd get them to do my punctures, even my bike cleaning.)

This, I would buy my components from the LBS that was 200m from the back gate because then when I had a frame repainted and needed to refit the headset they lent me the correct tool for the 10 minutes it took to walk home, fit the headset and walk back with the tool. Ok the components were pricey but the convenience and service was outstanding.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Peter on 27 January, 2023, 02:05:37 pm
Quote from: Cudzoziemiec on 27 January, 2023, 11:16:42 am
So that's something along the lines of:

(click to show/hide)

Very good, Cudz - if not Hilairious!
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Peter on 27 January, 2023, 02:15:17 pm
Quote from: Polar Bear on 27 January, 2023, 12:43:49 pm
I suppose an awful lot depends upon the conscientiousness of the individual, their pride in their own work.

I know that I would want to do a job to a level which I would do it for myself.  Of course the big unanswered question there is, how high are my own standards. 

I'm guessing that if you had asked our infrequently resident bicycle necromancer he would have given you a similar quote.  Many a time has he detailed a tale of a bso appearing in his shop with nothing working and everything needing replacing and the owner thinking that it can be restored to full health for a cup of tea and a few friendly slaps on the back accompanied by the usual racist and sexist diatribe.**

**  Aspects of this may have been over emphasised for dramatic effect.

No over-emphasis at all, PB.  This excellent artisan is known to both of us.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 27 January, 2023, 02:36:41 pm
I would never consider buying a specialist tool like a headset press that I might need once every ten years. There's always someone I can borrow one from or... a shop I can take it to, even if I'm doing the rest of the work myself.

Something I've found very useful locally is Bike Kitchen, (https://thebristolbikeproject.org/maintenance/bike-kitchen/) a scheme where you pay a nominal amount to use a workshop full of tools (and various parts if needed) with a knowledgeable person, who might sometimes even be a professional bike mechanic, on hand to give advice as needed. Perhaps there's something similar in Ruthieville?
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Polar Bear on 27 January, 2023, 03:28:44 pm
I have a wide and varied selection of bike tools simply because I loved fettling my own machines.  And these days I get the occasional joy of fettling the machines of my friends who still use their bicycles.

I have a Brompton rear wheel to rebuild with new spokes.  Really looking forward to a therapeutic afternoon with that one.  👍
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: perpetual dan on 27 January, 2023, 03:57:27 pm
Owning the tool is all very well. But there’s also the learning (likely without an expert to hand) to use it at least as well as the LBS person will do for me.

I also don’t have an indoor workshop space with a stable vice. Which makes doing some jobs well really quite hard.

So, I’ll do what I can, but head to the LBS if the chance of me breaking something expensive or making a really shonky job of it is significant.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: hatler on 27 January, 2023, 04:20:59 pm
My philosophy (roughly), is that if the cost of the tool is less than double what the LBS will charge to deploy said tool, I'll buy the tool. If I have cause to use it once, it's likely I'll have cause to use it again, and if I do, then I'm quids in.


Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: phantasmagoriana on 27 January, 2023, 04:43:44 pm
I used to do more of my own maintenance - owned lots of tools, workstand etc and was able to build bikes up from a frame. However, disc brakes defeated me and I just CBA to learn about them. I also have zero ability to index gears these days. Not sure if bikes got more complicated (are 11-speed gears more difficult than 7/8 to index? It feels like it) or I lost any semblance of competence. Probably a bit of both. I also haven't had any outdoor space to do the proper messy stuff for the last decade, which doesn't help.

That said, stripping and regreasing hubs/heatsets is oddly satisfying!
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: De Sisti on 27 January, 2023, 05:07:32 pm
Quote from: phantasmagoriana on 27 January, 2023, 04:43:44 pm
That said, stripping and regreasing hubs....
Is something I'd like to learn how to do (on Shimano 105 5800, 32 hole hubs).
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Paul H on 27 January, 2023, 05:44:03 pm
Quote from: L CC on 27 January, 2023, 10:02:04 am
Using the LBS for servicing keeps them in business and that helps make sure they're there when you need them for something you can't do yourself.

(I nearly never do any bike work. If we had an LBS in my village I'd get them to do my punctures, even my bike cleaning.)
How much would you pay for a puncture fix?
My LBS used to charge £10 plus the tube at RRP.  I think they got fed up with people considering that too expensive, while they said they only offered as a service in the hope people would buy something else while there.  I don't think everyone has a realistic understanding of workshop costs, particularly the admin and non billable hours. 
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Socks on 27 January, 2023, 07:22:21 pm
I do my own maintenance, partly for the satisfaction of being able to maintain my bikes and also build up a bike from a frameset, and build wheels.  The latter obviously takes me longer than a professional would, but they seem to have lasted well enough.  Although lately when I needed new 20" and 26" wheels I just bought them ready made as there isn't much price difference compared to buying hub, rim, spokes separately.

However I have various non-standard bikes (vintage Moultons, recumbents) and still use 9 speed gears with friction shifting so that I can mix and match whatever parts are in the bike shed (aka the largest bedroom) and minimise buying new stuff.  And vintage Sturmey 3 and 4 speed hubs, which I haven't attempted to dismantle and service.  Local bike shop might not be interested in this sort of niche activity anyway.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Adam on 27 January, 2023, 09:51:49 pm
Quote from: Paul H on 27 January, 2023, 05:44:03 pm

My LBS used to charge £10 plus the tube at RRP.  I think they got fed up with people considering that too expensive, while they said they only offered as a service in the hope people would buy something else while there.  I don't think everyone has a realistic understanding of workshop costs, particularly the admin and non billable hours.

Our labour charge for a puncture on a standard bike is £9, so with the inner tube, it's usually £15 total.  Never had anyone moan.  It's usually around 10 minutes total time, which includes checking the gears are still indexed ok, and writing up what else is wrong with the bike.  We get a lot of extra work from simply flagging up other things that need doing.
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: Ham on 31 January, 2023, 02:53:36 pm
I have a mate in an LBS in USAnia, who often ruminates on stuff like this https://citizenrider.blogspot.com/2021/10/bikes-are-like-cars-now.html

Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: L CC on 31 January, 2023, 03:48:05 pm
I think £10 + tube is fair.
Here's one I paid earlier (I think it was €10), in Maassluis.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230131/59e43ad585c7df26ea417309dc821da7.jpg)
Title: Re: Guess how much I paid at the LBS
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 31 January, 2023, 03:54:51 pm
Quote from: Ham on 31 January, 2023, 02:53:36 pm
I have a mate in an LBS in USAnia, who often ruminates on stuff like this https://citizenrider.blogspot.com/2021/10/bikes-are-like-cars-now.html
That is a great blog