Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => On The Road => Topic started by: Cudzoziemiec on 05 April, 2023, 12:53:18 pm

Title: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 05 April, 2023, 12:53:18 pm
Quote
More people are using bus services since the introduction of a £2 fare cap, a survey by a transport watchdog suggests.

Transport Focus surveyed more than 1,000 people and more than one in 10 said they were using the bus to travel more.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65177420
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 05 April, 2023, 01:46:49 pm
The odd bit is that the fare for my 2-mile journey into the Station (or more usually back from it) is £1.90, only 10p cheaper than the 16-mile journey to Alton.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 05 April, 2023, 02:45:21 pm
Bus fares are almost as full of oddities as train fares. And yes, a few will have gone up as a result of this scheme; for instance we used to have a 'three-stop hop' fare of £1.50 in Bristol, which has now vanished.

But I wonder if the key thing that has got more passengers on buses is the amount of the fare or the certainty that it will always be £2, no matter where you're going? Not having to specify a destination has some advantages: it might be that you know where you're going but you don't know how to describe it in bus terms; you might even just want to get on a bus and let it take you to the end of the line, or somewhere that you just feel looks good; and not having to get a specific target speeds up boarding, reducing one of the key irritant factors about bus travel.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: GdS on 05 April, 2023, 02:58:23 pm
I'm not (quite) eligible for a free pass yet but my experience of local buses is that they are £1.90 to go a very short distance and £5-7 to go anywhere else on the route.

I certainly intend to do some bus assisted long walks while the offer lasts
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 17 May, 2023, 02:14:07 pm
Scheme extended to October, then £2.50 for a further 12 months.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65616182
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: FifeingEejit on 17 May, 2023, 03:19:16 pm
Buses are usually priced based on fare stages.
Dundee still has "Fare Stage" on bus stop flags (or at least least time I looked)
For the former Dundee Corporation buses the prices are based on 1 or more fare stages
For the Alexander buses it increments at each fare stage.
IIRC Fare stages and timing stages are often interlinked (where you can't leave early)

Wormit was (or is) split in 2 either side of the kirk.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: De Sisti on 17 May, 2023, 05:02:05 pm
Over the past few months I've made return journeys from Cheltenham to Gloucester,
each time costing close to £6. The driver could have suggested two £2 singles, but didn't.  :(
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 17 May, 2023, 05:54:55 pm
I remember seeing fare stage plaques but haven't seen one since the early 90s, if not before. Might be a thing that survived longer in Scotland, if indeed they are still in use?
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Feanor on 17 May, 2023, 06:08:22 pm
I remember seeing fare stage plaques but haven't seen one since the early 90s, if not before. Might be a thing that survived longer in Scotland, if indeed they are still in use?

Lothian Busses in Edinburgh are fixed fare, there are no Fare Stages.
Single ticket is £2
Day Ticket is £5.

Using contactless to board, you will not be charged straight away: it accumulates your daily usage and caps it at the day rate and charges you in the wee small hours after midnight has passed.
TapTapCap is what they call it. Similar to Oyster, I think.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 17 May, 2023, 06:18:43 pm
The tap in, tap out system makes boarding so much simpler and speedier.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: quixoticgeek on 17 May, 2023, 06:33:26 pm
The tap in, tap out system makes boarding so much simpler and speedier.

This.

The OV chipkaart system in .NL is as close to a perfect public transport charging system as I've found. Second only to Luxembourg's approach (i.e. free).

J
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: De Sisti on 17 May, 2023, 09:59:29 pm
The tap in, tap out system makes boarding so much simpler and speedier.
Don't know what that is.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 17 May, 2023, 10:52:57 pm
The tap in, tap out system makes boarding so much simpler and speedier.
Don't know what that is.
Instead of asking the driver for a ticket to ..., you tap your bank card on a card reader when boarding and, ideally, the same again (usually a separate reader in a more convenient place) on exiting. You don't have to tap out but if you don't, it will just charge you for a single fare, whereas if you tap out, your combined total of all trips that day is capped – the exact cap varies from place to place. Here it is, I think, £8.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Kim on 18 May, 2023, 12:03:44 am
Last time I used one, the Middle Earth buses just tap in.  If you do it once, you pay a single fare.  If you do it more than once it's capped at the day ticket price.  Simple.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: quixoticgeek on 18 May, 2023, 12:16:39 am
Last time I used one, the Middle Earth buses just tap in.  If you do it once, you pay a single fare.  If you do it more than once it's capped at the day ticket price.  Simple.

That's a horrible system that people seem to think is good because they've never had he good fortune to use something better.

Unless the day cap is very low (under a fiver). It grossly disadvantages those who are not very fit, but also don't qualify for a disabled pass.

Do I need to explain trip chaining again ? And why it's crucial that public transport supports it ?

The tap in only system disadvantages those who only go a short distance, say one or two stops. The sort of distance where some old white bloke says "why don't you just walk it?!", And you have to explain you have an injury so you can't walk a long distance but you still want to get to the doctor's surgery. I often take a tram or bus one or two stops as part of a trip chain. Because a well thought out system allows and encourages it.

J
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Kim on 18 May, 2023, 12:26:02 am
Last time I used one, the Middle Earth buses just tap in.  If you do it once, you pay a single fare.  If you do it more than once it's capped at the day ticket price.  Simple.

That's a horrible system that people seem to think is good because they've never had he good fortune to use something better.

Unless the day cap is very low (under a fiver). It grossly disadvantages those who are not very fit, but also don't qualify for a disabled pass.

The day cap is currently £4, which seems expensive to me, but reasonable in the context of a single journey costing £2: Trip-chainers would pay the same as a commuter.

They also seem to have worked out that people want to buy bulk discounted tickets, but not travel 5 days a week...


Quote
Do I need to explain trip chaining again ? And why it's crucial that public transport supports it ?

Possibly to the people in charge of planning bus routes...
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: citoyen on 18 May, 2023, 07:09:18 am
I imagine one of the fundamental differences between buses in the UK and the Netherlands is that in the latter they are run as a service for the public while in the former they are run as a profit-making scheme for shareholders.

London buses and trams are managed as a concession by private operators but fares are set by TfL, in line with the Mayor’s transport policies. Current flat rate fare for any single bus/tram journey is £1.65 - and it was at that level well before the £2 cap was introduced across the country. For that £1.65 you can make as many bus/tram journeys as you like, as long as they start within the hour - even if you have, say, two bus journeys either side of a ride on the Tube.

This model may not suit some users who make multiple short journeys across the course of a day but I guess it’s designed to suit the vast majority of users.

I‘m sure TfL would have considered a tap-in/tap-out model but couldn’t say why they haven’t gone down that route. A lot of the problems with fare structuring in the UK are down to the attitude to funding from central government.

TfL recently had to put fares up as a direct result of central government cutting public transport funding, which was already much lower for London than any other major European city.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: citoyen on 18 May, 2023, 07:13:13 am
The funding issue means a lot of TfL activity is now focused on revenue generation. It has to be.  Otherwise public transport in London would be unsustainably expensive for passengers… sorry, I mean customers.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: perpetual dan on 18 May, 2023, 07:25:46 am
I used to use buses very occasionally (mostly train strike days) but it was a fellow passenger waiting for a late bus that told me about the £2 fare being if you use their app - doesn’t seem to be available from the driver. I live in the next town to work, and this year the train fare went to just over £10 for a return at getting to work time; the cash bus all day ticket £7.50; or £4 to get a cheap single each way.

There is also a tap on and off system, that seems to be based on the cash fare but with a discount for multiple days of use and a weekly cap. Though the description is suspiciously salesy and the prices buried. There is also a £1.70 short hop ticket, a combined bus and rail ticket and an “as many trips as you like” day ticket. Though for lots of short trips I can imagine a budget scooter soon becomes a financial win.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 18 May, 2023, 08:19:21 am
If anything, I'd have said it's the tap in, tap out system that disadvantages trip-chainers. If you fail to tap out, you'll get charged the maximum. At the moment, at least on First WoE and their subsidiaries, this doesn't make much difference if any to the fare you pay – and it seems very few people actually do tap out – but once the cap has gone, it will.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 18 May, 2023, 08:21:02 am
I used to use buses very occasionally (mostly train strike days) but it was a fellow passenger waiting for a late bus that told me about the £2 fare being if you use their app - doesn’t seem to be available from the driver. I live in the next town to work, and this year the train fare went to just over £10 for a return at getting to work time; the cash bus all day ticket £7.50; or £4 to get a cheap single each way.

There is also a tap on and off system, that seems to be based on the cash fare but with a discount for multiple days of use and a weekly cap. Though the description is suspiciously salesy and the prices buried. There is also a £1.70 short hop ticket, a combined bus and rail ticket and an “as many trips as you like” day ticket.
Sounds like too many fare types!

Quote
Though for lots of short trips I can imagine a budget scooter soon becomes a financial win.
This. And a convenience win too – not bound by timetables, routes and stops.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: quixoticgeek on 18 May, 2023, 09:05:29 am
If anything, I'd have said it's the tap in, tap out system that disadvantages trip-chainers. If you fail to tap out, you'll get charged the maximum. At the moment, at least on First WoE and their subsidiaries, this doesn't make much difference if any to the fare you pay – and it seems very few people actually do tap out – but once the cap has gone, it will.

If you fail to tap out on a bus in Amsterdam, you get charged 4 euro. Then you wait 48 hours, and claim back the difference by filling in a form on a website.

To put This in perspective I have had journeys where the costs have been:

1.08 - Metro from outside my flat one stop north.
0.56 - Bus from the metro station towards one of the main shopping streets to goto the optician.
0.15 - Tram from the other end of the shopping street one stop to the supermarket to buy lunch.
0.25 - Tram down the road to the outdoor kit shop.
0.30 - Tram to the expat shop
0.20 - Metro one stop
0.80 - Tram back out of the centre
0.10 - Metro one stop home.

That took me about 4 hours. With each stop being no more than 35 mins in length. On London buses that would be 1.65 x 4. If we include the two metro's as tube journeys, then add 6 quid.

It works really well with trip chaining, and is a massive improvement on the zone system we had before.

Quote
Though for lots of short trips I can imagine a budget scooter soon becomes a financial win.
This. And a convenience win too – not bound by timetables, routes and stops.

Erm no. That assumes a) that the infrastructure is there for the safe use of such a scooter, b) the physical fitness required to use a scooter c) the weather is conducive.

Also where do you put the scooter while you're in the Pharmacy? or at the supermarket?

It also assumes that all trips are short. You might want to do a €3 trip across town, then half a dozen short hops around that area, then the €2 hop back home. The scooter might not be so good on that situation.

I typically use my Brompton if I want to do these things in the city, but when I hurt my leg and was hobbling about on crutches, the short stops on the tram became invaluable. We have to design the public transport system to transport all of the public, not just a subset of it.

J
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 18 May, 2023, 09:13:34 am
If anything, I'd have said it's the tap in, tap out system that disadvantages trip-chainers. If you fail to tap out, you'll get charged the maximum. At the moment, at least on First WoE and their subsidiaries, this doesn't make much difference if any to the fare you pay – and it seems very few people actually do tap out – but once the cap has gone, it will.

If you fail to tap out on a bus in Amsterdam, you get charged 4 euro. Then you wait 48 hours, and claim back the difference by filling in a form on a website.
What a faffy system.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: quixoticgeek on 18 May, 2023, 09:19:47 am

What a faffy system.

Not really. I'm quite a heavy public transport system, and it happens to me about twice a year.

The chip card readers are by every door. Often one on each side of the door.

Failures to check it are rare. And when you do. You can still get the money back.

J
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: citoyen on 18 May, 2023, 09:51:16 am
On London buses that would be 1.65 x 4

Not to argue with the general point you're making, just a slight correction to the detail: the daily payg cap on London buses is £4.65.

The daily payg cap to cover all bus, tram, DLR etc is £9.60 for zones 1-3 (varies depending on which zones you're travelling in).
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 18 May, 2023, 09:57:49 am

What a faffy system.

Not really. I'm quite a heavy public transport system, and it happens to me about twice a year.

The chip card readers are by every door. Often one on each side of the door.

Failures to check it are rare. And when you do. You can still get the money back.

J
You're able to claim the money back because you're computer-literate, intelligent, able bodied, have internet access at home and work, and because you're familiar with the system through living there. Why should there be a need to reclaim money? If you fail to tap out here, you just get charged the single fare (currently £2).
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: quixoticgeek on 18 May, 2023, 10:24:52 am
On London buses that would be 1.65 x 4

Not to argue with the general point you're making, just a slight correction to the detail: the daily payg cap on London buses is £4.65.

The daily payg cap to cover all bus, tram, DLR etc is £9.60 for zones 1-3 (varies depending on which zones you're travelling in).

So a single tube run increases your limit by a fiver ?

I'd have to try very hard to spend they much on transport here.

J
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: quixoticgeek on 18 May, 2023, 10:30:49 am

This. And a convenience win too – not bound by timetables, routes and stops.

Just a short note. If your public transport system is working properly then services should be so frequent you never need to look at a timetable. You just walk up and there'll be a service in a couple of minutes.

After all there's no timetable for when the road outside your house is open for you to drive on it...

J
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: citoyen on 18 May, 2023, 10:56:05 am
So a single tube run increases your limit by a fiver ?

No, I believe the system is more sophisticated than that.

The people who really suffer are those who for whatever reason need to pay for their travel with cash - they can't take advantage of capped payg fares. There's a lot of work currently going on behind the scenes to address this.

Quote
I'd have to try very hard to spend they much on transport here.

That's on central government. The funding that has enabled the £2 bus fare cap is a token gesture. They could go a lot further if they had the will. And as already noted, they significantly cut TfL's funding in the latest deal.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Kim on 18 May, 2023, 12:15:13 pm
After all there's no timetable for when the road outside your house is open for you to drive on it...

There was when we lived in the People's Republic:  You had to look up the sportsball fixtures in order to determine whether  a) you'd be able to weasel your way to/from the main road in a timely manner  and   b) whether there would be anywhere to park when you returned.

More crucially, it also determined the times when, in pedestrian mode, it was best not to risk being perceived as lesbionic.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 24 May, 2023, 07:40:18 pm
Happy birthday! Here's free bus travel for a month!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-65690176
Quote
People living in Bristol and the surrounding area are to get free bus travel during the month of their birthday.

The new £8m plan, which will see eligible people given bus passes, starts in July.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: SoreTween on 24 May, 2023, 09:29:44 pm
And in about 10 seconds the local rags and anti-social media will be full of people born in February bemoaning the unfairness of it.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 24 May, 2023, 09:54:19 pm
And in about 10 seconds the local rags and anti-social media will be full of people born in February bemoaning the unfairness of it.
Quote
I can’t think of a worse present.
A month on Bristols Buses!!
🙏
https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/8m-birthday-buses-scheme-criticised-gimmick/

A rare instance of a policy uniting Greens and Conservatives!
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: fd3 on 25 May, 2023, 10:50:21 am
I imagine one of the fundamental differences between buses in the UK and the Netherlands is that in the latter they are run as a service for the public while in the former they are run as a profit-making scheme for shareholders.
You forgot to add "and this is why the UK system is superior, offering a better service at a lower price".
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: hubner on 29 May, 2023, 08:36:08 am
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/how-we-work/how-we-are-funded
Quote
Reinvesting in transport
We are committed to reducing costs and reinvesting all our income to run and improve services.

We are a public body, with no shareholders or parent companies, which means we can reinvest every pound of income in the transport network

For every pound we receive, around 80% is spent on the everyday running costs of the network and around 20% on renewing and improving it for the future.

Well, the firms actually running the buses and trains in London are certainly private profit making companies with shareholders, so the above is misleading and dishonest.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Kim on 29 May, 2023, 12:38:23 pm
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/how-we-work/how-we-are-funded
Quote
Reinvesting in transport
We are committed to reducing costs and reinvesting all our income to run and improve services.

We are a public body, with no shareholders or parent companies, which means we can reinvest every pound of income in the transport network

For every pound we receive, around 80% is spent on the everyday running costs of the network and around 20% on renewing and improving it for the future.

Well, the firms actually running the buses and trains in London are certainly private profit making companies with shareholders, so the above is misleading and dishonest.

It's always tricky where to draw that line.  You probably wouldn't think it unreasonable for TFL to buy computers or paper towels or concrete or diesel from for-profit companies, if only on the no-ethical-consumption-under-capitalism principle.  But when it's a fundamental part of the business, it does seem irksome.

See also: NHS.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Wowbagger on 29 May, 2023, 01:29:18 pm
I’ve had my Old Buggers’ Bus Pass for something over 3 years. I have used it only once - after a very good walk from Hope to Castleton via Hollins Cross last September. It was a Sheffield service that took me back to Hope.

I have never used it in Saarfend. Firstly, when I travel around the borough my first choice is bike. It’s quick and reliable. Secondly, I am unfamiliar with all the local services, so have no confidence that they will actually work.

The road I live in has bus stops but no buses, thanks to Tory cuts* quite some years ago. Indeed, last summer some road repairs were carried out near our house and I watched a couple of blokes carefully erect “BUS STOP SUSPENDED” signs and put in temporary bus stops elsewhere and only when they had finished did I tell them that there were no buses using those stops in any case.

*Labour cuts are also available but not so frequent
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: quixoticgeek on 29 May, 2023, 01:46:31 pm
The road I live in has bus stops but no buses, thanks to Tory cuts* quite some years ago. Indeed, last summer some road repairs were carried out near our house and I watched a couple of blokes carefully erect “BUS STOP SUSPENDED” signs and put in temporary bus stops elsewhere and only when they had finished did I tell them that there were no buses using those stops in any case.

*Labour cuts are also available but not so frequent

having issues with your n key?

J
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: fd3 on 29 May, 2023, 07:42:20 pm
Had to contain the rotfl as I am in public.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 30 May, 2023, 08:57:59 am
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/how-we-work/how-we-are-funded
Quote
Reinvesting in transport
We are committed to reducing costs and reinvesting all our income to run and improve services.

We are a public body, with no shareholders or parent companies, which means we can reinvest every pound of income in the transport network

For every pound we receive, around 80% is spent on the everyday running costs of the network and around 20% on renewing and improving it for the future.

Well, the firms actually running the buses and trains in London are certainly private profit making companies with shareholders, so the above is misleading and dishonest.

It's always tricky where to draw that line.  You probably wouldn't think it unreasonable for TFL to buy computers or paper towels or concrete or diesel from for-profit companies, if only on the no-ethical-consumption-under-capitalism principle.  But when it's a fundamental part of the business, it does seem irksome.

See also: NHS.
Several years ago, pre-covid, I went to a talk by professional train nerd Christian Wolmar, in a town that was a pleasant 20-mile bike ride away. He was supposed to be talking about Crossrail but he started by telling us of his failed attempt to become a Labour MP and even more failed attempt to become mayor of London and then making some general points, such as: outsourcing the peripherals is fine but outsourcing your core business means you no longer have a core business. He was referring to Network Rail outsourcing their signalling capabilities.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: diapsaon0 on 30 May, 2023, 05:26:13 pm
I now have my OAP bus pass which I use mostly on the park & ride. the normal services are so irregular that the timetable should win the Booker Prize.  What we DO need is a cheap train system with more bike carrying capacity.  It's the best way to get people - especially commuters - out of their cars.  Even with my OAP railcard, the train fare is invariably more that the cost of petrol - sometimes more expensive than a cab.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 01 June, 2023, 08:34:06 am
A train system that works would help.  So far this year I've had a week without a service (landslip), inability to get a train to Oxford for 2 months (collapsing viaduct), three weeks of reduced service (train engines couldn't cope with a new higher biodiesel content), travel to two of my four PBP qualifying rides disrupted by planned engineering works, and umpteen days of lost service due to strike action.

I used to travel about 20,000 miles by train a year, post-Covid with increased homeworking I expected it to be 12,000, but it is likely to be 8,000 this year and reducing because I can no longer plan for trains to get me to my destination in the UK. 

My bus service is once every two hours, which for a contiguous suburb in a town of 125,000 people explains why everyone uses a car.  If I want to get into the town centre, or catch a train, I walk.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 01 June, 2023, 08:57:04 am
My bus service is once every two hours, which for a contiguous suburb in a town of 125,000 people explains why everyone uses a car.  If I want to get into the town centre, or catch a train, I walk.

 :o

There is a more frequent bus service from right outside my house, and I live on a no-through road in a rural area on a remote scottish island.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Jaded on 01 June, 2023, 09:34:20 am
My bus service is once every two hours, which for a contiguous suburb in a town of 125,000 people explains why everyone uses a car.  If I want to get into the town centre, or catch a train, I walk.

Quite likely because every uses a car, it is a vicious circle of decline in public transport use, unless there is serious subsidising going on. (Ideally funded by squeezing the motorists more...)
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: MikeFromLFE on 01 June, 2023, 09:37:17 am
I live in a suburb of Leicester. At the top of the road we have three bus routes - two by Arriva and one by Stagecoach.
Until the City Council stepped in as part of the Bus Back Better plan the Stagecoach & Arriva buses travelled in convoy along the A47 every half hour - now they alternate every 15 minutes. The other Arriva bus is randomly timed.

The point is that they all go to the same place - the city centre or the next towns (Hinckley & Nuneaton) - if I want to get to either of the major hospitals, the big out of town shopping disaster zone, or any leisure facility it's a minimum of two buses.

Unless we have buses that take people where they want to go (desire lines?) rather than have routes based on historic travel patterns then of course people will take the easy option, and get in their cars.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Jaded on 01 June, 2023, 09:39:00 am
Trouble is that the motor car means that desire lines are now more massive desire meshes.
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Regulator on 01 June, 2023, 09:39:23 am
My bus service is once every two hours, which for a contiguous suburb in a town of 125,000 people explains why everyone uses a car.  If I want to get into the town centre, or catch a train, I walk.

Quite likely because every uses a car, it is a vicious circle of decline in public transport use, unless there is serious subsidising going on. (Ideally funded by squeezing the motorists more...)

When I lived in Norfolk, there was one bus a day to Norwich...

...the one return bus per day to the village was that same bus, 20 minutes after it had arrived in Norwich!
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Jaded on 01 June, 2023, 09:44:38 am
Did you really want to be in Norwich for longer than 20 minutes?  ;D
Title: Re: Cheaper buses, more passengers
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 01 June, 2023, 09:48:34 am
Trouble is that the motor car means that desire lines are now more massive desire meshes.
Good point.

big out of town shopping disaster zone
Good phrase, which should be popularized.