Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => GPS => Topic started by: Martin on 22 December, 2008, 05:26:56 pm
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OK I'm convinced; the thought of another tortuous overnight route with a paper route sheet has decided that I want one for my birthday. I have only experience (indirectly) of 2;
1. FY's Garmin (vague arrow points in the direction of where you need to be but they might be a lot better now)
2. A proper Tom Tom (I'd need the Ride version ££££££££££££££ :-\) Google maps on a proper colour screen with the facility to wipe our silly bridleways.
Are there any others I should consider? my budget is low as usual.
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TomToms are satnavs - not GPSs. They belong in motor vehicles, not on bikes.
Get yourself a decent mapping GPS. Any of the Garmin mapping range are suitable and you will be limited only by your budget.
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See my post just below. Does pretty much everything you need if you get the package with the City Navigator maps.
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Suggest:
Garmin eTrex Vista Hcx (£150) or Legend Hcx (£120) or a GPSmap 60csx (£220)
Get a couple of 2G uSD cards from 7-Day Shop to store maps - I can fit about 70% of the whole of europe onto one of those although they take a while to download onto....
Metroguide Europe (£88) with Metrogold to add routing or City Navigator NT Europe (£120).
Metroguide unlocked with Metrogold provides quite satisfactory routing. City Navigator is marginally better, even telling you how to negotiate roundabouts and which exit to take.
With my Etrex units, I have added a bomb proof handlebar mount (http://www.gpsw.co.uk/details/prod2394.html), far better then the stock mickey mouse mount that they come with...
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With my Etrex units, I have added a bomb proof handlebar mount (http://www.gpsw.co.uk/details/prod2394.html), far better then the stock mickey mouse mount that they come with...
pdm, That's a rather nice etrex bar mount. What base mount do you use with that?
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See my post just below. Does pretty much everything you need if you get the package with the City Navigator maps.
I like it :thumbsup: within my price range too
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I've been using the Etrex Vista HCx since about a month before PBP 07.
I'd highly recommend it or one of the similar Etrex HCx models. The maps as pdm says will fit onto a memory card; the whole of the UK fits onto my 1GB card so there's never any need to download more maps within the UK - it's a one-time thing. Although with the USB connection nowadays it never takes very long. With the old serial version which I still have lying around, you'd wait 30 minutes for it to download the maps for a ride.
There are various schools of thought on how to route using them - probably a separate debate. With the correct maps the Vista HCx can do auto-routing on the device which is useful if you don't want to hand-tune the route 100%, but it can make unhelpful choices.
Battery life from two AA NiMH (2700s) is almost enough for a 400, despite using the backlight a lot at night.
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With my Etrex units, I have added a bomb proof handlebar mount (http://www.gpsw.co.uk/details/prod2394.html), far better then the stock mickey mouse mount that they come with...
pdm, That's a rather nice etrex bar mount. What base mount do you use with that?
I simply did a little bit of surgey to shape the back and added 2 more holes so that I can attach it with two zip ties to the stem or a spacer bar mount (the bit between the handlebar and the accessory bar) depending on which bike it goes on. I also added a little high density sponge behind to add a bit of shock absorbtion. Very secure and safe. At the price, I can custom fit one for each bike. I prefer the stem position - out of the way, convenient to use and see and it leaves the bars free for lights and other stuff.
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OK I'm convinced; the thought of another tortuous overnight route with a paper route sheet has decided that I want one for my birthday. I have only experience (indirectly) of 2;
1. FY's Garmin (vague arrow points in the direction of where you need to be but they might be a lot better now)
2. A proper Tom Tom (I'd need the Ride version ££££££££££££££ :-\) Google maps on a proper colour screen with the facility to wipe our silly bridleways.
Are there any others I should consider? my budget is low as usual.
Do you only want it for audaxing (i.e. turn-by-turn instructions)? If you can get by without onboard mapping you can use a cheapo Etrex H just fine. Total outlay (with cable and bracket) about £100.
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+another for Garmin etrex Legend HCx + City Navigator.
Been using this combo with Google Maps + GmaptoGPX (http://www.elsewhere.org/journal/gmaptogpx), Marengo (http://www.marengo-ltd.com/map2) for route planning/route sheet translation, for all audaxes and lots of other rides this year - very pleased.
Also recommend a read of Francis Cookes articles at AUK GPS page (http://www.aukadia.net/gps/gps1.htm) - very helpful.
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OK I'm convinced; the thought of another tortuous overnight route with a paper route sheet has decided that I want one for my birthday. I have only experience (indirectly) of 2;
1. FY's Garmin (vague arrow points in the direction of where you need to be but they might be a lot better now)
2. A proper Tom Tom (I'd need the Ride version ££££££££££££££ :-\) Google maps on a proper colour screen with the facility to wipe our silly bridleways.
Are there any others I should consider? my budget is low as usual.
Do you only want it for audaxing (i.e. turn-by-turn instructions)?
no probably not if it will go in the car; might as well have the most all singing all dancing thing going; Being able to download the whole UK onto an SD card sounds cool. Can you make up routes on it? (something to while away the long train commutes)
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OK I'm convinced; the thought of another tortuous overnight route with a paper route sheet has decided that I want one for my birthday. I have only experience (indirectly) of 2;
1. FY's Garmin (vague arrow points in the direction of where you need to be but they might be a lot better now)
2. A proper Tom Tom (I'd need the Ride version ££££££££££££££ :-\) Google maps on a proper colour screen with the facility to wipe our silly bridleways.
Are there any others I should consider? my budget is low as usual.
Do you only want it for audaxing (i.e. turn-by-turn instructions)?
no probably not if it will go in the car; might as well have the most all singing all dancing thing going; Being able to download the whole UK onto an SD card sounds cool. Can you make up routes on it? (something to while away the long train commutes)
You can though you will find it slower than doing the same on a PC. On a CTC tour in france in 2006 I did this in the evenings as I hadn't time to plot all the routes out beforehand.
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Suggest:
Metroguide Europe (£88) with Metrogold to add routing or City Navigator NT Europe (£120).
Garmin have discontinued Metroguide, and it's getting difficult to find.
Presumably this is because of all the people using Metrogold to convert it instead of buying City Navigator.
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what about this? does it have the facility to download say a map of East Anglia?
Cheap Garmin ETrex Venture HC deal (http://www.pentagongps.co.uk/garmin-etrex-venture-hc-i7191.html)
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what about this? does it have the facility to download say a map of East Anglia?
Cheap Garmin ETrex Venture HC deal (http://www.pentagongps.co.uk/garmin-etrex-venture-hc-i7191.html)
I've just tried in MapSource; I can select the whole of East Anglia (as far north as Boston; as far west as Milton Keynes) and the whole of the M25 zone (which takes up a lot of space - the maps are in rectangular sections and they are much smaller in London). This is 23.3mb which should fit in that unit (24mb of internal memory).
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Another vote for Vista HCx and City Navigator.
I have used it in the car too. Its not ideal, but its a lot better than being lost.
Dave
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Oh you'll love having a GPS Martin!!!
I have a Vista Cx and City Navigator Europe maps. Really excellent, and the only thing that I dislike about it is that it sometimes loses signal in urban canyons. The HCx model won't have that problem as it has the high sensitivity receiver chipset.
I love the points of interest database, it saved my bacon a few times now. Once at the Berlin marathon when the hostel stuffed up our reservation. I used the POI database to look up all the nearest hotels, get their phone numbers and call for spaces. You can imagine how few rooms were available before the marathon with something like 150,000 extra visitors to the city.
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assuming openstreetmap covers the area you want, you don't need to spend money on maps. you can then spend the money you were going to spend on maps on either beer or a better gps. or both! win-win!
EDIT: see other thread in GPS forum about free maps for Garmin GPS devices (if you haven't already seen it) :)
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OK Vista HcX and Ram mount ordered, hopefully will arrive in time for the big day; I've mapped out El Supremo's 200 next weekend would anybdoy like to try it on theirs to make sure I've got it right pretty please :-*
please pm me your email and I'll send you the gdb :)
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The standard bar mounts are neater-looking and secure (i.e. the unit doesn't fall off) but the unit rattles insufferably in the mount and you may occasionally suffer the unit turning itself off on rough roads. There is a solution involving padding out the mount with black electrical tape, but for £12 Garmin should have done a much better job.
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Good choice Martin. If you ride a lot of DIYs then having mapping is invaluable. Being lost is a two phase thing - (1) Finding where you are, and (2) getting back on route. Any GPS can do (1) but you need maps for (2).
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I assume 2380 or thereabouts waypoints on the gpx track (from Bikely) won't fit into the unit ::-) (Mapsource allows me to cut it down to 100)
will something like this work with it? (it's the gpx opened with Mapsource) and how to I change Track 001 to a different name?
(http://www.fotothing.com/photos/d4c/d4c861a421b7398e3ef1c884d7b7c137.jpg?ts=1235930634)
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right-click --> track properties, & edit the name
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Good choice Martin. If you ride a lot of DIYs then having mapping is invaluable. Being lost is a two phase thing - (1) Finding where you are, and (2) getting back on route. Any GPS can do (1) but you need maps for (2).
Assuming your GPS has autorouting, all one need do is I select the next appropriate waypoint and ask the gps to take you there.
Beware, having a GPS also makes it easier to find the nearest station...
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Beware, having a GPS also makes it easier to find the nearest station...
Yes. Or Pubbe.
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I assume 2380 or thereabouts waypoints on the gpx track (from Bikely) won't fit into the unit ::-) (Mapsource allows me to cut it down to 100)
will something like this work with it? (it's the gpx opened with Mapsource) and how to I change Track 001 to a different name?
(http://www.fotothing.com/photos/d4c/d4c861a421b7398e3ef1c884d7b7c137.jpg?ts=1235930634)
You can cut it down to 500 which should fit. If 500 is too few to make the track accurate enough, then split it into two or more equal-ish sections and then cut them down to 500 points each.
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Downsampling 2380 to 500 is fine - this is one of those jobs that computers are very clever at. In fact in Mapsource if you set it to '500 points' it normally downsamples to some lower figure like 389 anyway.
As well as doing this, and renaming the track - take the opportunity to give it a colour as well.
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It's arrived :); can I wait 'til my birthday on Saturday before I fiddle?
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TomToms are satnavs - not GPSs.
Satnav - GPS - Same thing. The generic tern is a satellite navigation system, hence the term Satnav. GPS is short for Global Positioning System which is the name of the satellite system that provides the positioning data.
The original satelite system was NavStar which had a bunch of satellites in polar orbit i in a bird cage pattern. You only got a position when the satellite passed within your visible orizon. Only one sat at a time. The satellites were prone to precession wich resulted in them beeing bunched up together. Not good. (birds could escape)
The newer GPS sats are in geostationary orbit so you should be able to see approx 12 at any one time in any place on earth. Accuracy is therefore far better and you can also get altitude, which was not possible with NavStar. As a point of interest, with six sat reverences you can plot your positbion in 3D, which a used in space.
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Satnav - GPS - Same thing.
I still distinguish between the two. The main difference being the navigation bit.
For me:-
SatNav includes mapping and provides directions at appropriate junctions. They provide autorouting.
GPS = position (plus arrow pointing in direction of next point of route as the crow flies).
My Forerunner 405 is a GPS, so is my basic yellow eTrex. So are the Edge 205 and 305.
The Edge 605 and 705 are SatNavs, as are the eTrex Legend/Vista/Venture.
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SatNav also includes an irritating voice that's only any fun in Romanian. Apparently (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuZtCEOid4s).
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The newer GPS sats are in geostationary orbit so you should be able to see approx 12 at any one time in any place on earth. Accuracy is therefore far better and you can also get altitude, which was not possible with NavStar. As a point of interest, with six sat reverences you can plot your positbion in 3D, which a used in space.
GPS satellites are not in geostationary orbit except for a couple that provide WAAS/EGNOS corrections. Geostationary satellites are below the horizon once you get north or south of about 68° latitude.
They are grouped in 3 or 4 much lower orbits that are inclined at about 60° - I dare say Wiki will tell you exactly.
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The Edge 605 and 705 are SatNavs, as are the eTrex Legend/Vista/Venture.
Ahem! Only if you use them in that mode. They're both. Hell, they're marine wossnames and have glide ratios too.
"Satnav" is a use. A fairly tawdry, white-van kinda use compared to chasing a wiggly line over a Proper Bit Of Map, IMO, but YMMV. ;)
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The newer GPS sats are in geostationary orbit so you should be able to see approx 12 at any one time in any place on earth.
GPS satellites are not in geostationary orbit except for a couple that provide WAAS/EGNOS corrections.
The main constellation, each sat orbits the earth in approx 11h58m, I believe.
Assuming 24 sats (there are usually a few more, occasionally fewer - they have a finite operational life) then a view of 12 may be the optimum but I think the figure can drop a lot lower (even assuming a clear view in flat country) because of the way the orbits are arranged, you don't get an even distribution of sats in the sky all the time. 24 is supposed to guarantee that at least 4 are visible at any time and any place (with unobstructed sky view) - worst case is in the polar regions.
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"Satnav" is a use. A fairly tawdry, white-van kinda use compared to chasing a wiggly line over a Proper Bit Of Map, IMO, but YMMV. ;)
Exactly, but when cyclists use it for that exact same purpose they call it "a GPS" or "a mapping GPS".
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I've never seen a cyclist using it the way a driver does, only with a turn list or the map screen. I must just have no shabby friends. :)
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Downsampling 2380 to 500 is fine - this is one of those jobs that computers are very clever at. In fact in Mapsource if you set it to '500 points' it normally downsamples to some lower figure like 389 anyway.
can you give excat instructions for how to do this please? :)
also it has no micro SD card yet; is it worth getting a bigger than 2GB one?
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Downsampling 2380 to 500 is fine - this is one of those jobs that computers are very clever at. In fact in Mapsource if you set it to '500 points' it normally downsamples to some lower figure like 389 anyway.
can you give excat instructions for how to do this please? :)
also it has no micro SD card yet; is it worth getting a bigger than 2GB one?
1) Select track properties
2) Select Filter
3) select maximum points and set to 499
4) Thats it
2gb will probably do, 4gb only costs another couple of quid...
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I've never seen a cyclist using it the way a driver does, only with a turn list or the map screen. I must just have no shabby friends. :)
I run my GPS with just the map screen. Watching the clock/speedo is just too depressing....
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Never tried it with a card bigger than 2Gb. Unless you prefer Topo maps, 2Gb is more than enough to load all the mapping you'll ever need, and still leave loads of space for the daily track log.
[edit] according to Garmin's support site
http://tinyurl.com/aqwljm (http://tinyurl.com/aqwljm)
their 'x' series GPS don't support more than 2Gb cards, nor SDHC
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OK I've downloaded CN to the SD card; and also copied the gdb of tomorrow's 200 (not into the CN folder) using send to device
go to routes / tracks on the Vista, get nada, is there somewhere else I should be looking? ???
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OK I've downloaded CN to the SD card; and also copied the gdb of tomorrow's 200 (not into the CN folder) using send to device
go to routes / tracks on the Vista, get nada, is there somewhere else I should be looking?
The map has to be in a directory on the card called /garmin/ and it has to have a particular filename, I think its gmapsupp.img
In Mapsource, 'send to device' does this automatically, wiping any existing file of that name, but without Mapsource that's what you have to arrange.
'Send to device' (Mapsource and/or T&W Manager) places Routes Waypoints and Tracks into the units own memory, not onto the card. They should then be accessible via the Route and Track menus. You don't have to upload all these in one go (though for big projects it is advisable, to be sure of avoiding any naming conflicts)
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OK; created a Map Set of SE England (36Mb) and sent it over successfully
Now how do I open it? still no routes or tracks either ???
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OK; created a Map Set of SE England (36Mb) and sent it over successfully
Now how do I open it? still no routes or tracks either ???
There is no 'Map Open' - it is just there by default -
Assuming you are in SE England - the map should be displayed automatically on the map page. Are you zoomed right in on a blank area??
Possibly (but very unlikely) you need to go into Map setup (Menu>Map Setup) and make sure the map is ticked as 'visible' (and if any other maps are covering the same area, untick them) - but really if you're needing to do this then something is wrong with the map build.
But TBH the problem sounds more basic - are you connecting the GPS as an external storage device (not good), or is it being seen and model type correctly identified by your Garmin software (in 'Send to Device')??
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OK; created a Map Set of SE England (36Mb) and sent it over successfully
Now how do I open it? still no routes or tracks either ???
There is no 'Map Open' - it is just there by default -
Assuming you are in SE England - the map should be displayed automatically on the map page. Are you zoomed right in on a blank area?
What's the map page?
Possibly (but very unlikely) you need to go into Map setup (Menu>Map Setup) and make sure the map is ticked as 'visible' (and if any other maps are covering the same area, untick them) - but really if you're needing to do this then something is wrong with the map build.
can't find that in Setup
But TBH the problem sounds more basic - are you connecting the GPS as an external storage device (not good), or is it being seen and model type correctly identified by your Garmin software (in 'Send to Device')??
No it thinks it's a F drive
:sick:
It also "can't unlock the map" after it's downloaded
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Ok; the route has gone across but it won't open the map; just the default "2 roads in the whole of Sussex" :(
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It sounds like you haven't unlocked your map software onto your GPS. You did buy map software as well as teh GPS, right?
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But TBH the problem sounds more basic - are you connecting the GPS as an external storage device (not good), or is it being seen and model type correctly identified by your Garmin software (in 'Send to Device')??
No it thinks it's a F drive
:sick:
It also "can't unlock the map" after it's downloaded
Martin we are talking about a Vista, right? And you're using Trip & Waypoint Manager or Mapsource (ie Garmin's software as supplied with the unit) to load the Route but some other method to load a 3rd-party map, is that right?
If I've made the right assumptions there, T&W Man (or Mapsource, or Memory Map, or EasyGPS, or GPSBabel) can NOT transfer Routes etc while the GPS appears as a ext drive.
To transfer Routes etc, just switch the unit off, switch it on again and connect via USB, and use any one of the above software (but I would suggest T&W Man ideally Mapsource). By default it should connect in non-ext drive mode - your File Manager won't see it. That is good. Your transfer software will see it and may identify the model - eg VistaHCx. That is better.
Transferring the map - if you are creating a map file and then just copying it across to F:/garmin/ - well for a start do that as a separate operation. Switch the gPS off and on again to remake the connection, then force it into ext drive mode.
If you are using Garmin software to transfer the map (or, AFAIK Sendmap not sure about that) then you don't have to even think about where it is going, what it is called etc - just connect in the default non-ext drive mode as above and let the software do its stuff (its quite slow BTW - only USB 1).
Don't know anything about map unlocking but if you're trying to load City maps then that sounds likely cause of problem too.
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Possibly (but very unlikely) you need to go into Map setup (Menu>Map Setup) and make sure the map is ticked as 'visible' (and if any other maps are covering the same area, untick them) - but really if you're needing to do this then something is wrong with the map build.
can't find that in Setup
Cycle the Page key (top right) to get to the map page,
Press the Menu key (lowest left) once to get the page menu,
scroll down to Setup Map and select it using the Front key.
6 tabbed pages of settings - the map list is the 5th tab.
Every map tile is listed and can be turned on or off - but if correctly set up you wouldn't normally need to do this, as overlapping maps have a 'priority' embedded anyway.
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I'm using City Navigator Europe NT 2008 DVD
Not sure how to unlock it
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When you bought that mapping software, you should have a code certificate with it, with a number on it. You need to enter that number, plus the serial no. of the GPS, into teh Garmin website in the unlock section, and that will enable you to use the map in your GPS. Sorry I can't remember the specific sequence of steps, but the details should be in your manual.
There should be an unlock wizard in the Garmin Mapsource software. It's confusing, even for someone fairly PC literate. If you're really stuck, I could probably nip over to your place and give you a hand one evening if you like?
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Ah-HA! Well, I pass on the unlocking stuff, but at least you have Mapsource so everything else should be straightforward.
Check:
Did you install Trip & Waypoint Manager first?
And the USB driver (part of the same install)?
Then added Mapsource? (Which effectively becomes an 'upgrade' to T&W Man, very similar interface.)
I've always found Garmin's software installs routines very flakey BTW - easy to exit too early.
If you power the Garmin before connecting, do you get the 'chime' or some such indication as soon as you connect to PC?
Now, in Mapsource and 'Transfer', and 'Send to Device' - after a short pause your GPS should be ID'd including the model type and a serial number - shown on screen. And up to 4 tickboxes below allowing you to select all or none of Maps, Tracks, Waypoints and Routes.
A successful transfer will end with a 'transfer successful' or some such message on the PC.
Sometimes there is also a message on the Garmin screen. A bad transfer (usually duplicate or too many waypoints) sometimes pops up failure messages on either PC or Garmin - always check both before disconnecting.
[edit] unlocking - in Mapsource - Utilities, Unlock Maps
[and edit] since you have Mapsource, you should never need to see the GPS as an external drive (at least, not until you need to retrieve recorded tracks off the card - which is not enabled by default BTW)
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Is transfering tracks possible from one laptop/netbook to multiple GPS's which are not registered in your name? To be clearer, is it possible to transfer GPS tracks to GPS units of riders entering on the line for an audax event? Provided that the Netbook/laptop has either Mapsource or the track&waypoint manager.
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Yes, no problem with that, provided the GPS units have a standard USB connection method. Transferring tracks only takes a second or two.
You probably want 2 laptops - one set up for people with 'normal' GPS where it will only take seconds, and one for people with 'different' setups (we are talking about cyclists after all!) which would take longer.
Owners of the very latest types can also wirelessly transfer tracks from one unit to another - quite a good way of 'cheating' at the finish of an event ...
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I haven't seen any other devices as Garmin among my riders. Since I lack a 2nd laptop I probably can only provide this service for Garmin owners with 'normal' setup. Luckily among my regulars is a computer wizzard.
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OK; yesterday was the first time I tried the Vista. I downloaded the gdb file of the 200 to it but it only had the base map so I got a vague line between the viapoints (I think that's what they were; Mr O'Tea converted them). So I happily went round the route depositing breadcrumbs on the map as I went; but it didn't really tell me where I should be going; did not warn me I was approaching any of the via points; did not move the map page along as I went along and there doesn't seem to be any way of telling it to follow the route ???
any ideas? turning it to navigate suggested I use the M25 to get from Upperton back to Hailsham.
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Does the gdb file contain a 'Route' - or a 'Track' ??
Sounds like you had a track if you could see it on screen but were not getting prompts.
A route won't display until you've gone into the Route menu to load it, but tracks (usually) display all the time - and you can colour them to make then stand out more. [edit] green is good - because its a colour the Garmin maps don't use much.
So a track is more like a highlighted map that scrolls with you, than anything else. You won't have seen much in the way of scrolling because you didn't have much basemap detail to look at. Also in map setup you may prefer to set the display to 'Track Up' rather than 'North up' - that way the line you are following always points ahead and you can easily see the shape of the next turn.
[edit] but you can also improve the track-following by going into the Track menu and opting for 'Trackback' - this will generate prompts at any turn (deviation in the track) greater than about 30 degrees.
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My City Navigator map came on a MicroSD card. Can I transfer it to a larger capacity card (is there any gain by doing this?)
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Only if you want to store other stuff on the card as well, or if you want to set the GPS to log daily tracks to card (a good thing).
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My City Navigator map came on a MicroSD card. Can I transfer it to a larger capacity card (is there any gain by doing this?)
If you try it, let us know how you get on :thumbsup:
I've not yet come across any definitive answer to whether the pre-recorded SD cards are copy protected or not. If the maps can be copied successfully onto another card, I'd be a lot more willing to save the money over the cost of the DVD version when it comes to update time.
The maps are in file \garmin\gmapsupp.img.
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My City Navigator map came on a MicroSD card. Can I transfer it to a larger capacity card (is there any gain by doing this?)
Don't! I bought a 4GB card (HC) and the Garmin can't see it (although the pc can via the Garmin interface ???)
Just going to try a 2GB card to download the map; if that fails I'll need to buy a map on SD card :(
Francis; Yes what I need is turn by turn instructions off the Route / track <heinous crime>
just like a proper SatNav </heinous crime>
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Mine is fine with 2GB.
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When I bought my Etrex Vista a few weeks ago the salesman told me that it couldn't handle HC cards.
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Yesterday I logged my 200 on my new GPS. A lot of problems still with briddle paths which Mapsource doesn't know. It constantly wants to send the track back to known roads. :(
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Yesterday I logged my 200 on my new GPS. A lot of problems still with briddle paths which Mapsource doesn't know. It constantly wants to send the track back to known roads. :(
Turn off "follow road"?
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Yesterday I logged my 200 on my new GPS. A lot of problems still with briddle paths which Mapsource doesn't know. It constantly wants to send the track back to known roads. :(
Turn off "follow road"?
No its "lock on road" which may be doing that. In Map setup (strangely).
"Follow road" is best set to 'prompted', and that's in Setup, routing setup.
(http://www.aukadia.net/gps/follow-or-off-w.gif)
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Don't! I bought a 4GB card (HC) and the Garmin can't see it (although the pc can via the Garmin interface ???)
Mine is fine with 2GB.
See reply #39. 2Gb good, 4Gb bad, SDHC bad.
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frankie, have you ever thought of writing a book on this subject?
I reckon that the person who publishes the manual that Garmin ought to provide with their otherwise excellent products stands to make significant money!
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I reckon that the person who publishes the manual that Garmin ought to provide with their otherwise excellent products stands to make significant money!
GPS for Dummies, or SatNav
surely no-one would buy such a title!
But yes, Garmin's stuff is pretty poor (and getting worse with newer models).
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GPS for Dummies, or SatNav
surely no-one would buy such a title!
I've looked at the ones that exist, and they are not much better than Garmin's...
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I've not yet come across any definitive answer to whether the pre-recorded SD cards are copy protected or not. If the maps can be copied successfully onto another card, I'd be a lot more willing to save the money over the cost of the DVD version when it comes to update time.
I was assuming they can be copied, but that the copy will still be locked to the same GPS unit.
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Don't! I bought a 4GB card (HC) and the Garmin can't see it (although the pc can via the Garmin interface ???)
Mine is fine with 2GB.
See reply #39. 2Gb good, 4Gb bad, SDHC bad.
2Gb bad :(; have downloaded the whole of Mapsource CN to it and I still only get the basemap; should CN be in a folder on the SD card?
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2Gb bad :(; have downloaded the whole of Mapsource CN to it and I still only get the basemap; should CN be in a folder on the SD card?
Did you download it via a cardreader or via the USB port of your Garmin? I used the 2nd option and it worked perfectly.
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Don't! I bought a 4GB card (HC) and the Garmin can't see it (although the pc can via the Garmin interface ???)
Mine is fine with 2GB.
See reply #39. 2Gb good, 4Gb bad, SDHC bad.
2Gb bad :(; have downloaded the whole of Mapsource CN to it and I still only get the basemap; should CN be in a folder on the SD card?
Martin,
Are you selecting some maps in mapsource before downloading? You have to tell it which map segments you want on the device.
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should CN be in a folder on the SD card?
The maps are in file \garmin\gmapsupp.img
AFAIK, nothing else stands any chance of working.
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Finally :)
Got all of Mapsource visible on the Garmin; although for some reason it thinks the 200 starts from my house ??? and not even the way I drove to the start? how do I delete all the old routes / tracks?
so, for the next time; do I set the navigation as a car?
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Finally :)
Got all of Mapsource visible on the Garmin; although for some reason it thinks the 200 starts from my house ??? and not even the way I drove to the start? how do I delete all the old routes / tracks?
so, for the next time; do I set the navigation as a car?
No!
I never use the built-in navigation anyway, but Car is asking to be sent down the M3.
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Finally :)
Got all of Mapsource visible on the Garmin; although for some reason it thinks the 200 starts from my house ??? and not even the way I drove to the start? how do I delete all the old routes / tracks?
so, for the next time; do I set the navigation as a car?
No!
I never use the built-in navigation anyway, but Car is asking to be sent down the M3.
so what do I set is as? walking?
(presumably it's suggesting starting the 200 from my house as that's the only way to get en route; it also bisects the 200 route to join it on the South Coast as well ???)
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Finally :)
Got all of Mapsource visible on the Garmin; although for some reason it thinks the 200 starts from my house ??? and not even the way I drove to the start? how do I delete all the old routes / tracks?
so, for the next time; do I set the navigation as a car?
No!
I never use the built-in navigation anyway, but Car is asking to be sent down the M3.
so what do I set is as? walking?
(presumably it's suggesting starting the 200 from my house as that's the only way to get en route; it also bisects the 200 route to join it on the South Coast as well ???)
Doesn't it have a bicycle mode?
In any case I simply do turn-by-turn instructions myself and use direct routing which means it won't try to work out a route from turn to turn which might differ from that you wanted to ride.
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Finally :)
Got all of Mapsource visible on the Garmin; although for some reason it thinks the 200 starts from my house ??? and not even the way I drove to the start? how do I delete all the old routes / tracks?
so, for the next time; do I set the navigation as a car?
No!
I never use the built-in navigation anyway, but Car is asking to be sent down the M3.
so what do I set is as? walking?
(presumably it's suggesting starting the 200 from my house as that's the only way to get en route; it also bisects the 200 route to join it on the South Coast as well ???)
Doesn't it have a bicycle mode?
nope; Delivery is the slowest :-\
I've just created a gdb of my Audax ride and it follows the road when I polt it on the PC; but does as the crow flies when I download it to the device ???
I wish I'd just gone and bought a SatNav as per the OP
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Finally :)
Got all of Mapsource visible on the Garmin; although for some reason it thinks the 200 starts from my house ??? and not even the way I drove to the start? how do I delete all the old routes / tracks?
so, for the next time; do I set the navigation as a car?
No!
I never use the built-in navigation anyway, but Car is asking to be sent down the M3.
so what do I set is as? walking?
(presumably it's suggesting starting the 200 from my house as that's the only way to get en route; it also bisects the 200 route to join it on the South Coast as well ???)
Doesn't it have a bicycle mode?
nope; Delivery is the slowest :-\
I've just created a gdb of my Audax ride and it follows the road when I polt it on the PC; but does as the crow flies when I download it to the device ???
I wish I'd just gone and bought a SatNav as per the OP
You bought the Vista HCx? That's a satnav. It's what I have. Some mapsource products do not support on-device routing but I thought the City Navigator one did.
You have to enable the right setting on the device. I've just looked at it on my Vista HCx:
Goto setup then routing, under guidance method there should be prompted, follow road, off road. I use off road, but follow road should do satnav. The follow road method can be faster time or shorter distance. Under follow road options there are various vehicle types including bicycle.
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I've not yet come across any definitive answer to whether the pre-recorded SD cards are copy protected or not. If the maps can be copied successfully onto another card, I'd be a lot more willing to save the money over the cost of the DVD version when it comes to update time.
I was assuming they can be copied, but that the copy will still be locked to the same GPS unit.
But how is a pre-recorded SD card locked to a GPS? They are meant to be plug and play - no PC required.
Maybe it just locks to the first GPS you put it in. In which case can you copy it before putting it in a GPS?
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nope; Delivery is the slowest :-\
The menu that pops up has a scrollbar. Delivery is the bottommost until you scroll it down to see pedestrian and bicycle which is right at the bottom.
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You bought the Vista HCx? That's a satnav. It's what I have. Some mapsource products do not support on-device routing but I thought the City Navigator one did.
You have to enable the right setting on the device. I've just looked at it on my Vista HCx:
Goto setup then routing, under guidance method there should be prompted, follow road, off road. I use off road, but follow road should do satnav. The follow road method can be faster time or shorter distance. Under follow road options there are various vehicle types including bicycle.
Ok done all that; but it only follows road if I switch the route to Navigate, if I select Map it only shows the waypoints; if I do the same when I arrive at the start of the route will it do what I need? (ie replace the paper route sheet)
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You bought the Vista HCx? That's a satnav. It's what I have. Some mapsource products do not support on-device routing but I thought the City Navigator one did.
You have to enable the right setting on the device. I've just looked at it on my Vista HCx:
Goto setup then routing, under guidance method there should be prompted, follow road, off road. I use off road, but follow road should do satnav. The follow road method can be faster time or shorter distance. Under follow road options there are various vehicle types including bicycle.
Ok done all that; but it only follows road if I switch the route to Navigate, if I select Map it only shows the waypoints; if I do the same when I arrive at the start of the route will it do what I need? (ie replace the paper route sheet)
Well, I don't use the routing at all. As a replacement for a paper routesheet I just go from waypoint to waypoint. Have you given the waypoints helpful names like 01 L, 02 R etc? All I do is start from the 00 STRT waypoint I created, and go to 01 L. The L tells me I need to turn left there. The gps beeps when I get there (about 50 yards before) and then I take that turn. As a routesheet replacement, that's all you need.
Try getting it to recalculate the route after you change the settings - it won't do this automatically.
(on the map screen do menu then recalculate)
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You bought the Vista HCx? That's a satnav. It's what I have. Some mapsource products do not support on-device routing but I thought the City Navigator one did.
You have to enable the right setting on the device. I've just looked at it on my Vista HCx:
Goto setup then routing, under guidance method there should be prompted, follow road, off road. I use off road, but follow road should do satnav. The follow road method can be faster time or shorter distance. Under follow road options there are various vehicle types including bicycle.
Ok done all that; but it only follows road if I switch the route to Navigate, if I select Map it only shows the waypoints; if I do the same when I arrive at the start of the route will it do what I need? (ie replace the paper route sheet)
Well, I don't use the routing at all. As a replacement for a paper routesheet I just go from waypoint to waypoint. Have you given the waypoints helpful names like 01 L, 02 R etc? All I do is start from the 00 STRT waypoint I created, and go to 01 L. The L tells me I need to turn left there. The gps beeps when I get there (about 50 yards before) and then I take that turn. As a routesheet replacement, that's all you need.
that sounds like an incredible faff (as if transcribing the paper route to a gdb wasn't enough) no I want the thing to tell me where I need to turn possibly whilst I'm on the previous raod, then a few yards before and also the name of the road as per a SatNav
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Then you have to either have lots of route points, or pray that the device sends you the way you want to go (traditionally, every device, map, website and route planning gnome does it differently). ;D
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Then you have to either have lots of route points, or pray that the device sends you the way you want to go (traditionally, every device, map, website and route planning gnome does it differently). ;D
yes but if the device and the route I've created are using one and the same map and I make unambiguous waypoints it should be plain sailing
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nope; Delivery is the slowest :-\
I've just created a gdb of my Audax ride and it follows the road when I polt it on the PC; but does as the crow flies when I download it to the device ???
I wish I'd just gone and bought a SatNav as per the OP
*I think that...*
Although a gdb file has the full route as displayed along the road in it, all that gets sent to the GPS is the points that you've clicked on when creating the route.
If the GPS is set to off-road (or it's set to prompted and you select off-road), what you'll get is straight-line segments between the points you clicked. It's up to you to have clicked on enough points that you have a clear idea of which way to go when you arrive at a junction, given that the displayed route line and pointer arrow will be aiming directly at the next click point.
If the GPS is set to follow road (or it's set to prompted and you select follow road), what happens is that the GPS will calculate its own route between the clicked points, according to the current settings of quickest/shortest, vehicle type, avoided roads. It will then guide you along the route, including making prompted turns at points where you didn't click. Follow road routing is what you are thinking of as Satnav routing.
In an ideal world, if the settings on the GPS were the same as those on the PC, you'd get the same route displayed. However the world isn't ideal, and in practice the routes can differ, especially if your clicked points are a long way apart.
If you are trying to follow a specific route (eg an audax), it's best NOT to set the GPS to bicycle. When in bicycle mode, it can put in quite large detours to avoid bits of road it doesn't think are suitable, and you can end up going quite a lot further than the shortest route. Try delivery, car or emergency. I have however found that bicycle mode did well in giving me a quiet route into the centre of an unfamiliar city.
If I was setting up a follow-road route for an audax, I'd start by working out on a map where the route was meant to go. I'd then set the routing to car/shortest distance and click on each of the controls in turn, then check the route it came up with against where the route was meant to be. In practice, the specified route often isn't the shortest way between controls, so it's quite likely that there would be differences. In that case I'd add extra points between the controls to force the route onto the correct roads. After downloading the route onto the GPS, I'd check it again in case of any differences in routes selected, and correct and download again if necessary.
One point to note is that the first point should be half a mile down the road from the start, rather than at the start. Otherwise you run the risk of it trying to get you to go straight back to the start because you didn't actually start from where you'd told it you were going to.
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You bought the Vista HCx? That's a satnav. It's what I have. Some mapsource products do not support on-device routing but I thought the City Navigator one did.
You have to enable the right setting on the device. I've just looked at it on my Vista HCx:
Goto setup then routing, under guidance method there should be prompted, follow road, off road. I use off road, but follow road should do satnav. The follow road method can be faster time or shorter distance. Under follow road options there are various vehicle types including bicycle.
Ok done all that; but it only follows road if I switch the route to Navigate, if I select Map it only shows the waypoints; if I do the same when I arrive at the start of the route will it do what I need? (ie replace the paper route sheet)
Well, I don't use the routing at all. As a replacement for a paper routesheet I just go from waypoint to waypoint. Have you given the waypoints helpful names like 01 L, 02 R etc? All I do is start from the 00 STRT waypoint I created, and go to 01 L. The L tells me I need to turn left there. The gps beeps when I get there (about 50 yards before) and then I take that turn. As a routesheet replacement, that's all you need.
that sounds like an incredible faff (as if transcribing the paper route to a gdb wasn't enough) no I want the thing to tell me where I need to turn possibly whilst I'm on the previous raod, then a few yards before and also the name of the road as per a SatNav
It's more work than getting the GPS to route you, but I simply don't trust the routing in the GPS unit. I've been riding with another rider, same GPS unit, same gdb file I made, and he suddenly turns right at a junction to go via the A120 rather than staying on the nice B road we were using.
If you are putting in a waypoint for each turn on the routesheet anyway, then naming them helpfully isn't much extra work. If you are doing what ff suggests and putting in the minimal waypoint set, then you will need to use the built-in routing.
That will work ok until you have a route which uses a cycle path. :)
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nope; Delivery is the slowest :-\
I've just created a gdb of my Audax ride and it follows the road when I polt it on the PC; but does as the crow flies when I download it to the device ???
I wish I'd just gone and bought a SatNav as per the OP
*I think that...*
Although a gdb file has the full route as displayed along the road in it, all that gets sent to the GPS is the points that you've clicked on when creating the route.
If the GPS is set to off-road (or it's set to prompted and you select off-road), what you'll get is straight-line segments between the points you clicked. It's up to you to have clicked on enough points that you have a clear idea of which way to go when you arrive at a junction, given that the displayed route line and pointer arrow will be aiming directly at the next click point.
If the GPS is set to follow road (or it's set to prompted and you select follow road), what happens is that the GPS will calculate its own route between the clicked points, according to the current settings of quickest/shortest, vehicle type, avoided roads. It will then guide you along the route, including making prompted turns at points where you didn't click. Follow road routing is what you are thinking of as Satnav routing.
Thanks; so far so good :thumbsup:but why can't I see the "follow road" route on the device (just the direct route between waypoints) unless I switch it to Navigate? ie why can't I review the route on the device before I go out and do the ride without it deciding that I'm going to ride to the start from where I am?
also; how do I add points of interest (ie controls) on the pc or the device ?
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There are a couple of good how-tos on this Martin.
The upshot of it all is that for me what works best, within the limitations of the HCx, for an audax is to create 1) a track, which is simply a breadcrumb-type trail that does not involve routing and 2) a route (which does not follow the road) which goes through a series of suitably named waypoints.
In this way, you always have a track to follow and you also have your waypoints on the route with sound / backlight alert.
"Follow-road" is just too prone to giving you time wasting misdirections to rely on it.
[Edit: best way to deal with controls, tricky junctions etc is to label the waypoints accordingly as you make the route in Mapsource or whatever. I don't use POIs.]
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There are a couple of good how-tos on this Martin.
The upshot of it all is that for me what works best, within the limitations of the HCx, for an audax is to create 1) a track, which is simply a breadcrumb-type trail that does not involve routing and 2) a route (which does not follow the road) which goes through a series of suitably named waypoints.
In this way, you always have a track to follow and you also have your waypoints on the route with sound / backlight alert.
"Follow-road" is just too prone to giving you time wasting misdirections to rely on it.
[Edit: best way to deal with controls, tricky junctions etc is to label the waypoints accordingly as you make the route in Mapsource or whatever. I don't use POIs.]
The breadcrumb track is a nice-to-have, but not essential. Discovering how to make it green was a big help. :)
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"Follow-road" is just too prone to giving you time wasting misdirections to rely on it.
Having said that, most of the time on-device routing works well for me, including London, when I simply want it to get me between a start and finish.
But trying to connive the waypoints to make on-device routing follow an audax route is a different matter, and is just a total pain in the arse.
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"Follow-road" is just too prone to giving you time wasting misdirections to rely on it.
Having said that, most of the time on-device routing works well for me, including London, when I simply want it to get me between a start and finish.
But trying to connive the waypoints to make on-device routing follow an audax route is a different matter, and is just a total pain in the arse.
Especially since you can only do this sanely on the PC. Once on the device, the routing may differ (software, and not the same software, innit) and you can only look on a tiny screen to scroll around the route. And you can only tell if the route is correct by knowing the route in its entirety, and the best way to mark it is to place all the turn by turn waypoints... at which point you have done all the hard work.
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so basically I've just spent £200 on something that;
1. Won't convert gpx files into a useable route for Audax
2. Won't tell me which turn I need to take unless I tell it beforehand
3. Won't give me any idea of whether my pre-planned route will work until the day
>:(
if they are such carp why do so many riders use them? :-\
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It can do what you need:
It will generate a track from a .gpx file, which you can then use as a basis for a simple route (generated in Mapsource) which will contain waypoints and alerts to tell you what turns to take.
It will work on the day if time is put in to the preparation - doesn't take long after the first few times.
It's a very capable and robust device, but if you haven't used one before, or used Mapsource, it is not terribly intuitive.
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My GPS arrived Friday and told me (most) of the turns I needed for the Cheltenham Flyer on Saturday. The ones it didn't were down to user error.
I'd been trawling round the 'net on Friday evening and I used this site.
Bike Route Toaster
(http://www.bikeroutetoaster.com/)
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Thanks; so far so good :thumbsup:but why can't I see the "follow road" route on the device (just the direct route between waypoints) unless I switch it to Navigate?
also; how do I add points of interest (ie controls) on the pc or the device ?
You can't see the route until you start to navigate because it doesn't calculate the route until then. To review a route on the GPS, turn the GPS satellite reception off, select the route, navigate it, turn demo mode on, don't simulate driving. It will start from where you were last time the GPS was on, which is a bit of a pain. I've not found how to avoid that yet.
When setting up a route, there are 2 types of point - those which you just click on (routepoints or via points), and those you set up beforehand (waypoints). Waypoints can be given names, and it will give you countdown distances and ETAs for them. Routepoints you just go through with no real warning. If you go off route, either deliberately or accidentally, it will recalculate a direct route to the next waypoint, ignoring any routepoints.
For follow-road routing, I use mostly waypoints. Set one up on each control (green flag tool), then use the route tool to click on each in turn. If you want to alter the route chosen, you can either create an extra waypoint and add it into the route (route properties -> insert waypoint), or delete the route and create it again with an extra click for the routepoint. Routepoints can only be added into a route by looking up somewhere by name, at least on my version of mapsource. Waypoints can also be moved, routepoints can't.
I use follow road and waypoints because I mainly use a GPS so I don't have to keep stopping to look at a map, but the routes I'm following aren't particularly fixed and I may decide to change them during the ride. I can create waypoints, and remove and add waypoints into routes on the GPS itself whilst out on the road.
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so basically I've just spent £200 on something that;
1. Won't convert gpx files into a useable route for Audax
2. Won't tell me which turn I need to take unless I tell it beforehand
3. Won't give me any idea of whether my pre-planned route will work until the day
>:(
if they are such carp why do so many riders use them? :-\
1. GPX files cover a great multitude of sins, and are used for many purposes other than following a predefined route. A gpx file will give you a usable audax route, but it's got to be created suitably.
2. You have to tell it where to go because you want it to go a particular way. If you just want to go there via here and here, SatNav fashion, all you have to do it give it a gpx file with a route consisting of here, here and there, and it will give you suitable directions.
3. Yes, it's advisable to check the route is correct beforehand. However if the waypoints aren't too far apart and you've selected a suitable vehicle type (ie not bicycle), it's not often wrong. Provided the controls are in as waypoints, the worst that's going to happen is that you'll take a different route to everyone else to the next control (shorter and more main roady?).
In terms of route directions, it generally doesn't bother to mention a crossroads that you are going straight over, and occasionally it gets junction priorities wrong so it will think a left fork is just carrying on on the same road, or riding past a side road is actually a right fork (or whatever). The actual displayed line is correct though.
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Here's a question I've not yet found the answer to.
If navigating an audax for example, and it's split into, say, 10 sections, after having been
downloaded from Bikely to Tracklogs, then loaded in the gps as a route. Would there be a
seamless transition from one of the sections to another, or would one have to press the
navigate button for each part to be navigated?
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2. Won't tell me which turn I need to take unless I tell it beforehand
You want to trust a £200 toy rather than your own good judgement? See you in Timbuktu pal!
;- )
In addition to everything that's said so far:
NB in follow road mode you have a max of 50 points per route. Which is a lot, actually.
Don't program routes that make a circle or cross themselves (figure of eight) - split these into 2 or more routes, to avoid that situation.
When checking in advance, general playing around with settings, etc etc - turn the GPS sat polling off. You don't need it to know where you are now.
If you download someone else's route for use on an event - you need to use it in the same mode it was designed for - either follow road or off road - you need to know, and you need to be able to switch between these modes easily.
Personally I don't use follow road much, but I do think it works well in towns - for finding a station or a hospital - much less so in open country, where if it does make a mistake your legs might pay in many spurious kms ridden or metres climbed.
To maander - if you load it as 10 routes, you will need to load each route in turn, on the GPS. It only displays one at a time. So split them at controls. If you load it as 10 tracks, yes they can all display at once and appear seamlesse
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Does the gdb file contain a 'Route' - or a 'Track' ??
[edit] but you can also improve the track-following by going into the Track menu and opting for 'Trackback' - this will generate prompts at any turn (deviation in the track) greater than about 30 degrees.
If following a track and you choose the 'trackback' option, do you not have to click onto
a point of the track where you want to trackback to rather than just following the
whole of the track?
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Yes you have to scroll to 'the other end' of the track. It does seem a bit of a faff but OTOH just sticking a track in is by far the easiest and quickest way of programming the GPS in the 1st place.
So doing this is, IMO, the no-frills way of getting GPS 'smarts' - navigation with turn prompts, 'distance to next', etc etc.
You can do better but only with more prep.
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Here's a question I've not yet found the answer to.
If navigating an audax for example, and it's split into, say, 10 sections, after having been
downloaded from Bikely to Tracklogs, then loaded in the gps as a route. Would there be a
seamless transition from one of the sections to another, or would one have to press the
navigate button for each part to be navigated?
Yes you have to tell it to navigate each section individually.
I usually split routes at controls, so selecting a new route is just another thing you do at a control. It means you don't have to stop when riding.
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I use routes rather than faffing with tracks. As FF says, it's more prep time but I prefer the correlation between GPS and routesheet as I generally use one routepoint per routesheet instruction.
Occasionally I have to add a couple of extra routepoints just to make the arrow point in the right direction at a junction (especially when the next instruction is many km away), or summits of big climbs (Yad Moss or the Elan Valley) which give me something to aim for and also let me know how much pain I have left to endure.
I usually split routes at controls, so selecting a new route is just another thing you do at a control. It means you don't have to stop when riding.
I split the ride into as few sections as possible taking into account the length (maximum ~120 routepoints per route), shared roads in/out of a control (the GPS will often try and route you to the finish rather than on the way out, such as a ride like the Elenith that has the same route in/out as far as Tenbury Wells), etc.
For most out and back rides this means cutting the ride into 2 and I'll do this at the halfway control.
For rides with loops it can be a pain, especially if the loops are short, but I tend to put each loop in its own route and just remember which way I need to go at the start of the loop.
If the ride has a usual sleep stop then I'll also end one of the routes there, that means I can display the ETA and work out how long I'm going to be able to sleep/rest.
Some example rides:-
Willy Warmer: route 1 = start -> Hungerford (turn), route 2 = Hungerford -> Finish
Elenith: route 1 = start -> Tregaron (turn), route 2 = Tregaron -> Finish
Dean: route 1 = start -> Chepstow (turn), route 2 = Chepstow -> finish
Severn Across: route 1 = start -> Chepstow, route 2 = Chepstow -> Membury (sleep/rest), route 3 = Membury -> Finish
LEL:
route 1 = Start -> Lincoln (not enough points to do the entire extended route to Thorne)
route 2 = Lincoln -> Thorne (extended route, sleep)
route 3 = Thorne -> Canonbie (sleep)
route 4 = Canonbie -> Dalkeith (turn)
route 5 = Dalkeith -> Alston (sleep)
route 6 = Alston -> Lincoln (sleep)
route 7 = Lincoln -> Finish (rest and chop bike into little bits)
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if they are such carp why do so many riders use them? :-\
Speaking purely for myself, because in combination with Tracklogs they are tremendously liberating.
I plot the required route (track, whatever...) junction by junction in Tracklogs. I find this an enjoyable exercise in itself; some might find it a chore, I suppose. I then squirt it down the wire into the GPS and just follow the compass arrow.
This allows me to go exactly where I want to go with a minimum of fuss. It might give slightly vague directions at a couple of junctions in every 100km, but it soon gets me back on the required route. For somebody with indifferent eyesight and a rotten memory, for whom reading maps junction by junction is a total PITA, this is absolutely wonderful.
If you think the Garmin documentation is lousy, the menu design less than ideal and the lack of simple, standardised terminology tiresome, I can only agree with you. That's why I worked out my own way of doing what I wanted the device to do, wrote it down and just follow the instructions. There are probably all sorts of other things I could get it to do, but I cannot be bothered trying to work out how - one iteration of that process was quite enough...
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Would this work? Download a route from Bikely to Tracklogs, save as a .gpx.
Then send route to your gps (eTrex Vista cx).
Delete the route but have all of the 1700 odd waypoints (for a 200 km audax) in the gps.
Then, choose the 1st waypoint, choose "navigate", then choose "follow road"
Would you be directed to all subsequent waypoint, or only the 1st one?
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1st one. You need there to be a route to follow a route.
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Thanks for all the replies so far; was in a bit of a mooey last night after failing to get it to do anything right but it does a whole heap more than it did on Sunday so we're slowly getting there :)
one more question,
I put the Garmin gdb (the system I'm going to use as I've now got Garmin maps both sides of the interface and I know they talk to each other maybe better than anything else) of my own event into and asked it to navigate; sure it expected me to start from outside my house but the rest of it was pretty much spot on; except for a couple of bits where it did a complete wooey and went back on itself; if I force some more waypoints into the device will I be able to get it back on track?
as an aside, I told it to find my way to work this a.m while sitting on the train; it really did wet itself as it kept thinking I was on the parallel roads and as for passing under the M25... a good way of whileing away a commute and running down the batteries from a million recalculations.
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Thanks for all the replies so far; was in a bit of a mooey last night after failing to get it to do anything right but it does a whole heap more than it did on Sunday so we're slowly getting there :)
one more question,
I put the Garmin gdb (the system I'm going to use as I've now got Garmin maps both sides of the interface and I know they talk to each other maybe better than anything else) of my own event into and asked it to navigate; sure it expected me to start from outside my house but the rest of it was pretty much spot on; except for a couple of bits where it did a complete wooey and went back on itself; if I force some more waypoints into the device will I be able to get it back on track?
as an aside, I told it to find my way to work this a.m while sitting on the train; it really did wet itself as it kept thinking I was on the parallel roads and as for passing under the M25... a good way of whileing away a commute and running down the batteries from a million recalculations.
I have seen the routing algorithm on the PC sometimes do stupid things where it goes round the same loop of street twice. Try moving the waypoints either side of the problem, it may be they are positioned just the wrong side of a junction on a one-way street and it has to go around the houses to get to where you want to be, since it does know about one-ways (at least it knows what it was told they were when the map was first made. Over time as some roads get reclassified it will be more out of date).
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If I was setting up a follow-road route for an audax, I'd start by working out on a map where the route was meant to go. I'd then set the routing to car/shortest distance and click on each of the controls in turn, then check the route it came up with against where the route was meant to be. In practice, the specified route often isn't the shortest way between controls, so it's quite likely that there would be differences. In that case I'd add extra points between the controls to force the route onto the correct roads. After downloading the route onto the GPS, I'd check it again in case of any differences in routes selected, and correct and download again if necessary.
I've just tried this for the Elenith (picked 'cos I know where it goes).
I added 3 extra points:
at Bewdley to force the outwards route onto the bypass as per the route sheet (though through town is allowed)
at Pembridge (shortest route between Rhayader and Kingsland is via the A448, Presteigne and Shobdon)
at Leominster (shortest route back to the finish is to cut up to Yarpole and follow the outwards route)
There were also short cuts at Orleton and just before Kingsland that save 100m and 500m respectively. I didn't bother doing anything about these. I've certainly seen people using the Kingsland short cut - it's handy for getting to the control before the others in your group.
Checking the route on the GPS, the only difference to the Mapsource routing is that it returns to the centre of Tregaron on leaving the control - 200m extra
Total time: 10 mins
Here's the route if anyone wants it (saved as gpx from Mapsource and loads of rubbish deleted):
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="no" ?>
<gpx xmlns="http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1" creator="MapSource 6.13.7" version="1.1" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xsi:schemaLocation="GPX 1.1 Schema Documentation (http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1) http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1/gpx.xsd">
<metadata> <bounds maxlat="52.4110347" maxlon="-2.2548151" minlat="52.1336031" minlon="-3.9367032"/> </metadata>
<wpt lat="52.1483945" lon="-3.4034112"> <name>Builth</name> </wpt>
<wpt lat="52.2786512" lon="-3.0661252"> <name>Discoed</name> </wpt>
<wpt lat="52.4110347" lon="-2.2550514"> <name>Finish</name> </wpt>
<wpt lat="52.2483628" lon="-2.8121301"> <name>Kingsland</name> </wpt>
<wpt lat="52.3004948" lon="-3.5103095"> <name>Rhayader</name> </wpt>
<wpt lat="52.2428656" lon="-2.8834391"> <name>Shobdon</name> </wpt>
<wpt lat="52.1994981" lon="-3.7520901"> <name>Staircase</name> </wpt>
<wpt lat="52.4107548" lon="-2.2549750"> <name>Start</name> </wpt>
<wpt lat="52.2219041" lon="-3.9367032"> <name>Tregaron</name> </wpt>
<rte>
<name>Elenith</name>
<rtept lat="52.4107548" lon="-2.2549750"> <name>Start</name> </rtept>
<rtept lat="52.3765576" lon="-2.2997362"> <name>2221</name> </rtept>
<rtept lat="52.2428656" lon="-2.8834391"> <name>Shobdon</name> </rtept>
<rtept lat="52.2786512" lon="-3.0661252"> <name>Discoed</name> </rtept>
<rtept lat="52.1483945" lon="-3.4034112"> <name>Builth</name> </rtept>
<rtept lat="52.1994981" lon="-3.7520901"> <name>Staircase</name> </rtept>
<rtept lat="52.2219041" lon="-3.9367032"> <name>Tregaron</name> </rtept>
<rtept lat="52.3004948" lon="-3.5103095"> <name>Rhayader</name> </rtept>
<rtept lat="52.2178582" lon="-2.8967095"> <name>2427</name> </rtept>
<rtept lat="52.2483628" lon="-2.8121301"> <name>Kingsland</name> </rtept>
<rtept lat="52.2247741" lon="-2.7555569"> <name>2466</name> </rtept>
<rtept lat="52.4110347" lon="-2.2550514"> <name>Finish</name> </rtept>
</rte>
</gpx>
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If you think the Garmin documentation is lousy, the menu design less than ideal and the lack of simple, standardised terminology tiresome, I can only agree with you. That's why I worked out my own way of doing what I wanted the device to do, wrote it down and just follow the instructions.
That is spot on. These things are highly configurable and any one person is only going to use a fraction of what is available. Once you get it doing what you want, just ignore all the other stuff.
as an aside, I told it to find my way to work this a.m while sitting on the train; it really did wet itself as it kept thinking I was on the parallel roads and as for passing under the M25...
I haven't tried it with an 'H' model (high sensitivity) but I find most modern rolling stock is completely opaque to GPS signals.
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as an aside, I told it to find my way to work this a.m while sitting on the train; it really did wet itself as it kept thinking I was on the parallel roads and as for passing under the M25...
I haven't tried it with an 'H' model (high sensitivity) but I find most modern rolling stock is completely opaque to GPS signals.
My experiences have been that electric overhead cables do for GPS signals. Diesel trains on line with no overhead power seem OK.
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My experiences have been that electric overhead cables do for GPS signals. Diesel trains on line with no overhead power seem OK.
It took a while but my Forerunner 405 got enough satellites to get a position whilst on the electrified WCML on the way up to Blackpool the other week. I had to put it right up against the window and even then it only worked when pointing at certain angles. No chance of a signal anywhere inside the carriages away from the windows.
193kph though :)
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I got my Vista Cx to work for a short while on the HST down to cornwall the other week, but only by using it in the vestibule between carriages. I think the insulation in 1st Class makes it a no no.
T'was a giggle watching the moving map though - because for a lot of the time the actual position was nowhere near the railway line shown on the map so it showed me whizzing across the fields and open space. Or in the Kennet & Avon canal :).
Only managed 180km/hr though >:(
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It's a far cry from sitting on a (fairly new) Inter City 125 on the ECML with an OS map and the wonderful stopwatch facility on my new digital watch, measuring the time between road bridges. Interestingly I clocked it at 125mph. Which seemed right.
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My experiences have been that electric overhead cables do for GPS signals. Diesel trains on line with no overhead power seem OK.
we got the old live third rail down 'ere in Southernrailwayland innit?
but it only worked when near a window (I assume car ones are much the same) and as for at work in the old horsehair insulated hospital buildings....
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My experiences have been that electric overhead cables do for GPS signals. Diesel trains on line with no overhead power seem OK.
we got the old live third rail down 'ere in Southernrailwayland innit?
but it only worked when near a window (I assume car ones are much the same) and as for at work in the old horsehair insulated hospital buildings....
I've had a signal from the middle of my livingroom, and in the window at the office at work.
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My experiences have been that electric overhead cables do for GPS signals. Diesel trains on line with no overhead power seem OK.
we got the old live third rail down 'ere in Southernrailwayland innit?
but it only worked when near a window (I assume car ones are much the same) and as for at work in the old horsehair insulated hospital buildings....
I've had a signal from the middle of my livingroom, and in the window at the office at work.
I notice the Acquiring Satellites screen shows a whole plethora of space junk up there; at any one time how many of these things are there (and how much of the globe do they cover) ? and is that all they do? do they also relay football and QVC to the masses?
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24-32, and it's their main role - they're not tellysats.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/ConstellationGPS.gif)
Wikipedia, as always, has the gen on the satellite constellation: Global Positioning System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System)
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few more queries;
I've downloaded the 300 route to the device but when I set it to 'follow road' it needs a max of 50 waypoints; how do I set this on mapsource without going through and deleting some?
can I rename waypoints to eg INFO / El S stop?
if the device decides it doesn't want to take me down a particular road can I manually add a waypoint on the device to force it to?
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few more queries;
I've downloaded the 300 route to the device but when I set it to 'follow road' it needs a max of 50 waypoints; how do I set this on mapsource without going through and deleting some?
can I rename waypoints to eg INFO / El S stop?
if the device decides it doesn't want to take me down a particular road can I manually add a waypoint on the device to force it to?
1. Deleting some is what you'd have to do. Set Mapsource to 'use autorouting' and recalculate the route after deleting some points, to check it still goes the right way. Its a bit of a risky business IMO. The trouble is that the two types of route really aren't compatible - a route intended to be used in direct (aka off road) mode is unlikely to work in follow road (unless its a very short one), and conversely a follow road route won't work very well in direct mode.
Alternatively you might be able to split the route into several shorter chunks, but unfortunately Mapsource doesn't have a Route Split tool. There are simple enough ways - using a text editor.
You can rename some waypoints (in properties), but in a direct mode route possibly not many - you'll find the name field greyed out. Easer to delete the waypoint, add a new one using the waypoint tool and name it, then attach the existing route to it. Easy enough when you get the hang of it.
Personally I limit names to 6 chars - which is good discipline if nothing else! - after that the font gets smaller, too small for my eyes.
On the road - you can scroll the map, manually plonk a waypoint down, then do a Go To to that waypoint. This will cancel the existing route. On arrival at your Go To point, reload the Route to continue navigation.
Or why not just ignore the navigation hints and be your own man.
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few more queries;
I've downloaded the 300 route to the device but when I set it to 'follow road' it needs a max of 50 waypoints; how do I set this on mapsource without going through and deleting some?
can I rename waypoints to eg INFO / El S stop?
if the device decides it doesn't want to take me down a particular road can I manually add a waypoint on the device to force it to?
1. Deleting some is what you'd have to do. Set Mapsource to 'use autorouting' and recalculate the route after deleting some points, to check it still goes the right way. Its a bit of a risky business IMO. The trouble is that the two types of route really aren't compatible - a route intended to be used in direct (aka off road) mode is unlikely to work in follow road (unless its a very short one), and conversely a follow road route won't work very well in direct mode.
Alternatively you might be able to split the route into several shorter chunks, but unfortunately Mapsource doesn't have a Route Split tool.
You can rename some waypoints (in properties), but in a direct mode route possibly not many - you'll find the name field greyed out. Easer to delete the waypoint, add a new one using the waypoint tool and name it, then attach the existing route to it. Easy enough when you get the hang of it.
Personally I limit names to 6 chars - which is good discipline if nothing else! - after that the font gets smaller, too small for my eyes.
On the road - you can scroll the map, manually plonk a waypoint down, then do a Go To to that waypoint. This will cancel the existing route. On arrival at your Go To point, reload the Route to continue navigation.
If the waypoints are numbered in order (must be numbered with leading zeros or this will NOT work) then go to the waypoints view, sort them by name, then select a subset of the waypoints and use "create route from selected waypoints".
This is an easy way to create multiple routes.
I always create the waypoints first and then create a route using them. Usually I use 3 digit numbering, as some routes need >100 waypoints. If I start with 01 and then get to 99, I need to add extra zero to all the waypoints. (If they are numbered 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 then when sorted they will come out as 1, 10, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9). Adding a leading zero so you have 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 ensures the correct sort order.
If you need to add a waypoint between 04 and 05 after having created loads of waypoints, call it 04a which will sort correctly i.e. 04 04a 05.
Ideally someone will write a decent route editor one day, with sensible auto-numbering, etc.
My usual system for direct routing is something like this:
001 STRT
002 L T
003 E 1
004 SO
005 L R
..
015 INFO
..
..
023 CTRL
024 R X
then I select waypoints 001 to 023, and create a route just from those, and then 023 to nnn CTRL and create a route from those, etc etc.
Whatever system you use, if they are nicely numbered for easy sorting, you can create routes for a subset of the waypoints quite easily.
To change the name of a waypoint, menu over it and "waypoint properties" has an auto-name check-box. Uncheck this and you can type your own name for it.
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If the waypoints are numbered in order (must be numbered with leading zeros or this will NOT work) then go to the waypoints view, sort them by name, then select a subset of the waypoints and use "create route from selected waypoints".
This is an easy way to create multiple routes.
What a smart tip! Very good.
To change the name of a waypoint, menu over it and "waypoint properties" has an auto-name check-box. Uncheck this and you can type your own name for it.
In Mapsource, unfortunately this only works for routes made in the way you have described (ie by creating waypoints first). If the person who made the route in the first place used the Route Tool, you can't rename routepoints in Mapsource. (You can in other software, Memory Map for example.)