Post by: Maz on 23 January, 2024, 01:30:54 pm
I bought a second-hand Garmin Edge510 for a tenner, seems to work but not had much time to explore it yet.
Sometimes it gives me turn-by-turn instructions, which is great. Other times, instructions are vague like "Go northeast".
Anyway I loaded the CTX file of the route from the Audax organisers site and I also opened the file in a text editor.
In it, there a re lots of <Notes> with textual descriptions of what manoeuvre to make.
I'm hoping that that these instructions will appear on-screen while I'm riding the route. Is this what these Notes are for?
Thanks
e.g.
<CoursePoint>
<Name>Start of r</Name>
<Time>2024-01-09T16:28:20Z</Time>
<Position>
<LatitudeDegrees>52.6273399</LatitudeDegrees>
<LongitudeDegrees>-1.04638</LongitudeDegrees>
</Position>
<PointType>Generic</PointType>
<Notes>Start of route</Notes>
</CoursePoint>
<CoursePoint>
<Name>Grange Ln</Name>
<Time>2024-01-09T16:30:00Z</Time>
<Position>
<LatitudeDegrees>52.62889</LatitudeDegrees>
<LongitudeDegrees>-1.04593</LongitudeDegrees>
</Position>
<PointType>Left</PointType>
<Notes>Turn left onto Grange Ln</Notes>
</CoursePoint>
<CoursePoint>
<Name>Uppingham </Name>
<Time>2024-01-09T16:34:00Z</Time>
<Position>
Post by: Frank9755 on 23 January, 2024, 01:50:21 pm
Post by: FifeingEejit on 23 January, 2024, 02:00:28 pm
IIRC it's got mapping but not navigation so can't work anything out itself, and is thus dependent on what's in the GPX file.
What it's dependent on is the Cue Sheet (as it's called in RWGPS)
Looking at a TCX export of one of my RWGPS routes (cue sheet export is a premium feature IIRC)
<CoursePoint>
<Name>Keep right</Name>
<Time>2024-01-23T17:45:45Z</Time>
<Position>
<LatitudeDegrees>56.08231300455368</LatitudeDegrees>
<LongitudeDegrees>-3.3935823480492995</LongitudeDegrees>
</Position>
<PointType>Right</PointType>
<Notes>Keep right</Notes>
</CoursePoint>
So probably yeah
Post by: Maz on 23 January, 2024, 02:05:56 pm
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/38477514
I've exported as a TCX file from this page onto the 510.
Does the Cue-sheet get loaded onto the 510? i.e. will I get T-b-T instructions?
If it is a premium feature as BIdj suggests above, then NO it looks like I won't get TbT nav.
Post by: FifeingEejit on 23 January, 2024, 02:07:35 pm
I tend to find its people using breadcrumb trails on older devices with low trackpoint counts that go horribly wrong.
Worst you can do with decent resolution breadcrumb trail is miss a fork junction and bomb down a huge hill before noticing and have to climb back up :hand:
Post by: Maz on 23 January, 2024, 02:13:18 pm
So yeah it should show up, for anyone using a decent GPS device.Apologies - I don't understand what you mean by a 'breadcrumb trail'.
I tend to find its people using breadcrumb trails on older devices with low trackpoint counts that go horribly wrong.
Worst you can do with decent resolution breadcrumb trail is miss a fork junction and bomb down a huge hill before noticing and have to climb back up :hand:
Is the 510 a decent enough navigation device for an Audax?
Post by: Zed43 on 23 January, 2024, 02:43:05 pm
Is the 510 a decent enough navigation device for an Audax?Yes. I started doing audaxes with an Edge 800, so even older and it was fine.
Two things:
* battery life of earlier types was not as good a the latest ones and a unit that is XXX years old will probably have a noticably degraded battery; bring a USB powerbank and cable to charge on the go (while having tea and cake is a good moment)
* the unit will likely not yell/beep at you when you're just following a line on the screen ("breadcrumb trail") and then miss a turn; so you'll need to pay a little more attention to the GPS to see if you're still on track.
Post by: JellyLegs on 23 January, 2024, 02:47:24 pm
So yeah it should show up, for anyone using a decent GPS device.Apologies - I don't understand what you mean by a 'breadcrumb trail'.
I tend to find its people using breadcrumb trails on older devices with low trackpoint counts that go horribly wrong.
Worst you can do with decent resolution breadcrumb trail is miss a fork junction and bomb down a huge hill before noticing and have to climb back up :hand:
Is the 510 a decent enough navigation device for an Audax?
There are two ways of setting up a route on most devices. All of them will allow you to load the basic route. This appears as a line on the map on the device display that you follow a bit like breadcrumbs in Hansel and Grettel or paper trails in The Railway Children hence the name “Breadcrumbs “.
Most of them will allow you to also load turn by turn directions in addition to the breadcrumbs and these will then give you additional prompts such as “Turn left into High Street” and usually a countdown distance to the turn.
Some will also offer dynamic rerouting functionality should you hit a road closure or go off route but that’s an aside.
I am not a Garmin man so can’t comment on the capabilities of the 510 but I use breadcrumbs only for my audax routes on my Wahoo unless I am riding overnight when the turn by turn directions coupled with spoken directions capabilities comes in handy (but kills my battery).
Post by: Maz on 23 January, 2024, 03:52:04 pm
Thanks for the explanation of 'breadcrumbs', makes sense.So yeah it should show up, for anyone using a decent GPS device.Apologies - I don't understand what you mean by a 'breadcrumb trail'.
I tend to find its people using breadcrumb trails on older devices with low trackpoint counts that go horribly wrong.
Worst you can do with decent resolution breadcrumb trail is miss a fork junction and bomb down a huge hill before noticing and have to climb back up :hand:
Is the 510 a decent enough navigation device for an Audax?
There are two ways of setting up a route on most devices. All of them will allow you to load the basic route. This appears as a line on the map on the device display that you follow a bit like breadcrumbs in Hansel and Grettel or paper trails in The Railway Children hence the name “Breadcrumbs “.
Most of them will allow you to also load turn by turn directions in addition to the breadcrumbs and these will then give you additional prompts such as “Turn left into High Street” and usually a countdown distance to the turn.
Some will also offer dynamic rerouting functionality should you hit a road closure or go off route but that’s an aside.
I am not a Garmin man so can’t comment on the capabilities of the 510 but I use breadcrumbs only for my audax routes on my Wahoo unless I am riding overnight when the turn by turn directions coupled with spoken directions capabilities comes in handy (but kills my battery).
To download the version of the TCX file which includes turn-by-turn instructions, I need to have coughed up and pay the premium (a trail of pennies, not breadcrumbs, you could say).
I am not willing to do that, so I will have to make do with the cues I do get plus doing some google-map research before-hand I think.
I think there might be a paper cue-sheet given out on the day but as I've not done one before, I can't be sure.
Cheers
Post by: freeflow on 23 January, 2024, 04:33:59 pm
Post by: alfapete on 23 January, 2024, 04:37:13 pm
I think there might be a paper cue-sheet given out on the day but as I've not done one before, I can't be sure.There will definitely be one of these, either in advance or on the day.
Cheers
Post by: JonBuoy on 23 January, 2024, 04:40:37 pm
Thanks for the explanation of 'breadcrumbs', makes sense.So yeah it should show up, for anyone using a decent GPS device.Apologies - I don't understand what you mean by a 'breadcrumb trail'.
I tend to find its people using breadcrumb trails on older devices with low trackpoint counts that go horribly wrong.
Worst you can do with decent resolution breadcrumb trail is miss a fork junction and bomb down a huge hill before noticing and have to climb back up :hand:
Is the 510 a decent enough navigation device for an Audax?
There are two ways of setting up a route on most devices. All of them will allow you to load the basic route. This appears as a line on the map on the device display that you follow a bit like breadcrumbs in Hansel and Grettel or paper trails in The Railway Children hence the name “Breadcrumbs “.
Most of them will allow you to also load turn by turn directions in addition to the breadcrumbs and these will then give you additional prompts such as “Turn left into High Street” and usually a countdown distance to the turn.
Some will also offer dynamic rerouting functionality should you hit a road closure or go off route but that’s an aside.
I am not a Garmin man so can’t comment on the capabilities of the 510 but I use breadcrumbs only for my audax routes on my Wahoo unless I am riding overnight when the turn by turn directions coupled with spoken directions capabilities comes in handy (but kills my battery).
To download the version of the TCX file which includes turn-by-turn instructions, I need to have coughed up and pay the premium (a trail of pennies, not breadcrumbs, you could say).
I am not willing to do that, so I will have to make do with the cues I do get plus doing some google-map research before-hand I think.
I think there might be a paper cue-sheet given out on the day but as I've not done one before, I can't be sure.
Cheers
Me again - you've lost a 'z' ;)
The organiser will send out a copy of the route sheet with other info (carparking etc) in the week before the event. There is a preliminary version available on the event page here: https://www.aukweb.net/routes/40r.zip It is worth having a look up front as it appears to be written in code but fortunately it is a code that is easy to crack! Paper copies may be available at the start but I wouldn't count on it.
Post by: drossall on 23 January, 2024, 05:09:51 pm
There are two ways of setting up a route on most devices. All of them will allow you to load the basic route. This appears as a line on the map on the device display that you follow a bit like breadcrumbs in Hansel and Grettel or paper trails in The Railway Children hence the name “Breadcrumbs “.With an Audax, the point is that you're generally using the organiser's GPX file, so the choice is made by the organiser. Hence, you'll get inconsistent behaviour because of different organisers, for different events, making different choices. You could I suppose try to produce your own, but I've never bothered.
Most of them will allow you to also load turn by turn directions in addition to the breadcrumbs and these will then give you additional prompts such as “Turn left into High Street” and usually a countdown distance to the turn.
Sign up for Garmin Connect (free), go to Training and Planning - Courses, and import the file by drag and drop. It will sync onto your Garmin and away you go.
Personally I'm happy with just a track to follow. I've occasionally lost concentration and missed a turn, but never gone off route by more than a few hundred metres. The main issue is sneaking back without another rider spotting your error ;)
Post by: citoyen on 23 January, 2024, 06:28:16 pm
The “breadcrumb trail” you follow on the screen is simply a join-the-dots picture of all the lat/long points listed in the gpx file. The device has no maps and the track does not relate to actual roads, so it will tell you what general direction to go but it doesn’t know the difference between a turn and a bend in the road.
My preference was for simple gpx files with controls embedded as waypoints. These always worked reliably. I found the device temperamental if I tried to use large complex files with lots of embedded turn-by-turn instructions.
It pays to do some pre-ride reconnaissance using the route sheet and Google maps. And use the 510 in conjunction with route sheet supplied by the organiser.
Post by: citoyen on 23 January, 2024, 06:33:35 pm
To download the version of the TCX file which includes turn-by-turn instructions, I need to have coughed up and pay the premium (a trail of pennies, not breadcrumbs, you could say).
Would this be a file to download from RideWithGPS? I could be wrong but I don’t think the 510 is compatible with those files - ie it won’t display the turn instructions.
So you’re definitely best off saving your pennies.
Post by: Lightning Phil on 23 January, 2024, 07:12:32 pm
To download the version of the TCX file which includes turn-by-turn instructions, I need to have coughed up and pay the premium (a trail of pennies, not breadcrumbs, you could say).
Would this be a file to download from RideWithGPS? I could be wrong but I don’t think the 510 is compatible with those files - ie it won’t display the turn instructions.
So you’re definitely best off saving your pennies.
If they are course points then it should. My first Garmin was the Edge 305 around 2004. That dealt with and showed and alerted course points and indeed TCX and CRS (subset of TCX) date from around then and first editions of training centre. The problem is if there are hundreds of the buggers, in which case the 510 may choke. Back when you added course points by clicking on the map in Training Centre, you generally only added half a dozen or so to mark water points, pubs etc. Distance to nearest course point worked then as well, where as now it just tells you distance to next turn instruction.
Post by: De Sisti on 23 January, 2024, 07:21:06 pm
I think there might be a paper cue-sheet given out on the day .....Just in case it rains on the day, you may need something to keep the route sheet dry*. :thumbsup:
*I once saw a guy on his first 200k (about 2010) with a soggy route sheet at the
half-way stage of the ride after some light rainfall. Not sure how he got on to the finish.
Post by: Lightning Phil on 23 January, 2024, 07:26:37 pm
I think there might be a paper cue-sheet given out on the day but as I've not done one before, I can't be sure.
Cheers
You’ll normally get it in the pre event email, then print it yourself or save on your phone as backup. Very few organisers will do mass advance printing of route sheets these days.
Post by: Von Broad on 23 January, 2024, 08:10:13 pm
instructions are vague like "Go northeast".
That's the only instruction you really need for most audaxes - after a few hours [or 24hrs if it's a 600], just turn round and head southwest to get home.
Sarcasm aside, I've not used the 510, only the Etrex Vista since 2007, and like drossall am perfectly happy to follow a benign track [and yes.....until you forget to look at your unit!].
One thing I would emphasize, is the whole self-reliance thing with audax - particularly when you start to get into longer distances. I'm always amazed when I see riders still using a route sheet. But a laminated route sheet with lots of preparation before you set off [ie being aware of towns, shops etc] is still probably a pretty reliable and bomb-proof way to navigate.
Having said that, I don't always carry a routesheet as backup......and I should, but always carry a spare GPS unit loaded with a duplicate route.
I'd really encourage developing the habit of carrying a routesheet as back up.
Hope the ride goes well.
Post by: arabella on 23 January, 2024, 08:32:32 pm
Just follow the instructions slavishly.
The bag that comes with the brevet card works well to keep the route sheet dry. (though it is prudent to avoid water based ink).
I take a map (the regional ones work OK) as fall back.
Weak point, as with gadget you are proposing to use, is if you lose your way in a built up area.
Post by: drossall on 23 January, 2024, 08:32:59 pm
I use the route sheet mainly for context, looking ahead to see what's coming in the next hour or so (a control, hopefully!)
Post by: TOBY on 23 January, 2024, 10:21:12 pm
I'm doing my first Audax next month "Rutland and Beyond" which is 100 km.
I bought a second-hand Garmin Edge510 for a tenner, seems to work but not had much time to explore it yet.
Sometimes it gives me turn-by-turn instructions, which is great. Other times, instructions are vague like "Go northeast".
Key points from here: GARMIN EDGE 510 (https://ridewithgps.com/help/garmin-edge-510#:~:text=The%20Edge%20510%20can%20use,cue%20entry%20in%20the%20cuesheet.) (edit: link now fixed thanks drossall for picking that up)
Map a route using our bike route planner and then export a GPX Track for breadcrumb navigation on the Edge 510, or a TCX Course file to get basic turn guidance using the cuesheet generated when you planned the route.
The Edge 510 can use a GPX Track, TCX, or FIT Course. A TCX Course has the advantage of embedding your planned route’s cuesheet. So, alongside Garmin’s dedicated navigation, you get beeps and text for each pre-planned cue entry in the cuesheet.
Note: Please practice navigating a route with something simple around your neighborhood, and don’t try this right before a ride with friends or a big event!
Post by: drossall on 23 January, 2024, 10:31:49 pm
Post by: FifeingEejit on 23 January, 2024, 10:33:50 pm
I had a rider get lost in Dundee trying to follow a soggy route sheet, considering the instruction he was trying to follow could be summarised as "cross the river by the bridge" I'm not sure why he started climbing back up the hill Dundee is built on.I think there might be a paper cue-sheet given out on the day .....Just in case it rains on the day, you may need something to keep the route sheet dry*.
*I once saw a guy on his first 200k (about 2010) with a soggy route sheet at the
half-way stage of the ride after some light rainfall. Not sure how he got on to the finish.
dafter shit has probably been done TBF.
at least he could see the bridge he wanted to cross from that hill.
Sent from my IV2201 using Tapatalk
Post by: citoyen on 23 January, 2024, 10:50:01 pm
If they are course points then it should.
Indeed. I’m not sure they were course points though. Possible I was exporting the wrong format or something. It’s a while ago, I can’t remember the details.
Quote
The problem is if there are hundreds of the buggers, in which case the 510 may choke.
That was very much a problem with the 510.
I found that as long as you understood its capabilities and limitations, it was an excellent device. Unfortunately, the dog got hold of mine and destroyed it, otherwise I might still be using it now.
Post by: FifeingEejit on 23 January, 2024, 10:56:25 pm
my 2nd one just died of corruption a year after I got it as replacement for the 1st.
i went to wahoo after that.
i always just dropped my route files on using windows Explorer and the USB connection, the biggest fear I always had with it was losing the recording, for some reason garmin thought it would be a good idea to keep recording in memory until you finished.
one trick for battery life on older garmin I found was the general data display screen was much "cheaper" to run than routing.
this applied to my 510s as well a my fenix2 which are battery at about half the rate showing the clock as it did for any data screen.
Sent from my IV2201 using Tapatalk
Post by: JellyLegs on 23 January, 2024, 11:28:48 pm
You could I suppose try to produce your own, but I've never bothered.
Point taken about normally using the organiser’s file so getting what you are given in the way of cues, waypoints etc. I tend to trace the organiser’s route for myself when I need to ECE the ride, or I am adding a route to/from the start and can’t be bothered to play about with separate tracks or because the event will involve some element of night riding and the supplied gpx doesn’t include turn by turn navigation or the organisers route marks controls with waypoints (these just don’t alert properly on my wahoo so I have been known to have to backtrack some distance to a missed control). I probably end up tracing 50% of the events I enter. If my eyesight was better or I could get the hang of varifocals then I would use a laminated route sheet as my primary navigation but reading a route sheet now is a constant game of glasses out, glasses on, read next instruction, glasses off, glasses away, rinse and repeat.
Post by: Lightning Phil on 24 January, 2024, 06:45:27 am
If they are course points then it should.
Indeed. I’m not sure they were course points though. Possible I was exporting the wrong format or something. It’s a while ago, I can’t remember the details.QuoteThe problem is if there are hundreds of the buggers, in which case the 510 may choke.
That was very much a problem with the 510.
I found that as long as you understood its capabilities and limitations, it was an excellent device. Unfortunately, the dog got hold of mine and destroyed it, otherwise I might still be using it now.
I did use my Edge 500 in breadcrumb mode for LEL 2013 and it was fine. But no TBT, it wouldn’t cope with that , and the number of points per course had to be filtered to sensible levels.
Post by: alfapete on 24 January, 2024, 09:23:19 am
I'm doing my first Audax next month "Rutland and Beyond" which is 100 km.
I bought a second-hand Garmin Edge510 for a tenner, seems to work but not had much time to explore it yet.
Poor Maz's head is spinning!
My advice: plot a 10km route on something like ridewithgps and export it to the 510. Try it out and see how it works. Then you'll feel much better prepared on the day.
If you can't make it work for you don't beat yourself up about it (Garmin's seem fiendishly complicated on first encounters and most of us don't explore more than 10% of its capabilities). Just follow the routesheet on your very first Audax and enjoy the ride.
Post by: Wycombewheeler on 24 January, 2024, 09:24:26 am
My normal set-up is a Garmin and a map trap (https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/accessoriesmaps-navigation-holders/mini-map-1-map-holder-9-x-15-cm-with-klickfix-bracket/), with the route sheet, side by side on the bars. But I agree, use of route sheets is falling.I used to create my own GPX files between controls from the route sheet so I could have a distance countdown to the next control, but now I just ride and follow the line. I highly approve of e-brevet as it means I can eat when I am hungry and not be tied to buying stuff at the corners of the course.
I use the route sheet mainly for context, looking ahead to see what's coming in the next hour or so (a control, hopefully!)
Post by: Salvatore on 24 January, 2024, 09:36:30 am
Quote from: alfapete link=topic=127797.msg2871555#msg2871555 date=1706088199u
Poor Maz's head is spinning!
My advice: plot a 10km route on something like ridewithgps and export it to the 510. Try it out and see how it works. Then you'll feel much better prepared on the day.
If you can't make it work for you don't beat yourself up about it (Garmin's seem fiendishly complicated on first encounters and most of us don't explore more than 10% of it's capabilities). Just follow the routesheet on your very first Audax and enjoy the ride.
And/or hook up with someone riding at a comfortable pace who looks as if they know what they're doing and where they're going. A number of Italian riders got round LEL in 2009 using exactly that strategy (hence my forum name).
Post by: Maz on 24 January, 2024, 09:36:51 am
Quote
Me again - you've lost a 'z' ;)LoL I tried to register on cycleChat with the username 'Maz' but an error message popped up saying 'username must be at least 4 characters'.
The organiser will send out a copy of the route sheet with other info (carparking etc) in the week before the event. There is a preliminary version available on the event page here: https://www.aukweb.net/routes/40r.zip It is worth having a look up front as it appears to be written in code but fortunately it is a code that is easy to crack! Paper copies may be available at the start but I wouldn't count on it.
Yes, I just had a look at the event page, pages are upside-down but easy to correct that.
I'll be doing some route research in advance and try not to be too reliant on the device. As the old adage goes 'Time spent in reconnaissance is seldom wasted'.
Post by: Maz on 24 January, 2024, 10:35:52 am
Thanks - I did create a Work2Home route and used it to to get home from work...sometimes I got very clear "Turn right" or "Turn Left" on-screen instructions (the screen was dim most of the time but became lit up in close proximity to the turning point)...other times I got the "go northeast" type of instructions - I noticed this when I was on the approach to roundabouts (rather than a map showing which exit to take).
Key points from here: GARMIN EDGE 510 (http://"https://ridewithgps.com/help/garmin-edge-510#:~:text=The%20Edge%20510%20can%20use,cue%20entry%20in%20the%20cuesheet.")
Map a route using our bike route planner and then export a GPX Track for breadcrumb navigation on the Edge 510, or a TCX Course file to get basic turn guidance using the cuesheet generated when you planned the route.
The Edge 510 can use a GPX Track, TCX, or FIT Course. A TCX Course has the advantage of embedding your planned route’s cuesheet. So, alongside Garmin’s dedicated navigation, you get beeps and text for each pre-planned cue entry in the cuesheet.
Note: Please practice navigating a route with something simple around your neighborhood, and don’t try this right before a ride with friends or a big event!
Unfortunately, I couldn't figure out how to reverse the route for navigating from Home2Work, so I will create a new route for that.
Cheers
Post by: Maz on 24 January, 2024, 10:41:03 am
Absolutely - I'll plan a local route and get some experience using the device.
Poor Maz's head is spinning!
My advice: plot a 10km route on something like ridewithgps and export it to the 510. Try it out and see how it works. Then you'll feel much better prepared on the day.
If you can't make it work for you don't beat yourself up about it (Garmin's seem fiendishly complicated on first encounters and most of us don't explore more than 10% of it's capabilities). Just follow the routesheet on your very first Audax and enjoy the ride.
And you're right - head is spinning!
Post by: citoyen on 24 January, 2024, 11:35:53 am
sometimes I got very clear "Turn right" or "Turn Left" on-screen instructions
Yes, if there is a sharp change of direction in the track, it will give you an instruction to turn in that direction.
However, as noted earlier, the device doesn't know the difference between a turn and a bend in the road. So it will give you the instruction in both instances.
And the corollary of this is that it won't give you the instruction if the turning is effectively straight on (eg a left fork when the road bends to the right).
This is why you need to be extra vigilant when following a breadcrumb trail, and why it is a good idea to use the device in conjunction with the route sheet.
Post by: Maz on 24 January, 2024, 11:46:04 am
Understood, thank for this.
Yes, if there is a sharp change of direction in the track, it will give you an instruction to turn in that direction.
However, as noted earlier, the device doesn't know the difference between a turn and a bend in the road. So it will give you the instruction in both instances.
And the corollary of this is that it won't give you the instruction if the turning is effectively straight on (eg a left fork when the road bends to the right).
This is why you need to be extra vigilant when following a breadcrumb trail, and why it is a good idea to use the device in conjunction with the route sheet.
I wish this forum had a simple "Like" button on posts, so I could acknowledge replies that way.
Post by: Langsam on 24 January, 2024, 01:51:13 pm
Rutland and Beyond is fairly easy to navigate with relatively few turns so should be a good opportunity to try out your gps. If the weather is OK there is usually a good turnout so there will be someone either just infront or just behind you to point the way if needs be. I will undoubtedly be towards the rear of the field so you will always have someone behind.
Welcome to the world of audax and good luck but be aware it's addictive.
Post by: Maz on 24 January, 2024, 04:50:02 pm
Maz.Cheers for this, might see you down there.
Rutland and Beyond is fairly easy to navigate with relatively few turns so should be a good opportunity to try out your gps. If the weather is OK there is usually a good turnout so there will be someone either just infront or just behind you to point the way if needs be. I will undoubtedly be towards the rear of the field so you will always have someone behind.
Welcome to the world of audax and good luck but be aware it's addictive.
Post by: FifeingEejit on 24 January, 2024, 11:42:55 pm
with cue sheets it's not the device that does anything it's the software the route was created in.sometimes I got very clear "Turn right" or "Turn Left" on-screen instructions
Yes, if there is a sharp change of direction in the track, it will give you an instruction to turn in that direction.
However, as noted earlier, the device doesn't know the difference between a turn and a bend in the road. So it will give you the instruction in both instances.
And the corollary of this is that it won't give you the instruction if the turning is effectively straight on (eg a left fork when the road bends to the right).
This is why you need to be extra vigilant when following a breadcrumb trail, and why it is a good idea to use the device in conjunction with the route sheet.
with rwgps being in the right map mode and routing mode makes all the difference to how roundabouts are called.
Iirc if use OSM and driving you'll get the proper "nth exit at roundabout "
cycling mode is variable, usually sending you over the pavement on slands rsther than rouns
walking mode will probably send you round the wrong way and get "roundabout"
cannae mid what Google does, probably send you over Ben nevis via the cic.
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Post by: Kim on 25 January, 2024, 12:15:35 am
Other times, instructions are vague like "Go northeast".
I don't have an Edge 510, but usually with Garmin GPSes that means that:
a) You're not on what it understands to be a road, or your position is ambiguous.
or
b) It doesn't know which direction you're facing (particularly on a unit without a magnetic compass, which can only infer direction when you're moving).
Post by: Maz on 25 January, 2024, 10:54:23 am
Thanks for this.Other times, instructions are vague like "Go northeast".
I don't have an Edge 510, but usually with Garmin GPSes that means that:
a) You're not on what it understands to be a road, or your position is ambiguous.
or
b) It doesn't know which direction you're facing (particularly on a unit without a magnetic compass, which can only infer direction when you're moving).
I think the "go northeast" type of instructions would be reasonably helpful if only I knew where North was - not sure if Edge510 can tell you that.
Post by: Kim on 25 January, 2024, 01:27:47 pm
Post by: LateStarter on 25 January, 2024, 09:14:19 pm
Much better** to use the second option which is to use the “Cue” entries in the TCX otherwise known as Course Points, the text in the file you posted. This will give you a notice as you cross the position of each course point, but it may be delayed depending on the GPS accuracy, not great in 510s. **Actually viewing the navigation video after all those years the first method might be better than I remember and it works with a GPX as well.
You should be able to still find a pdf if the user manual online and this will help. I used the 510 on many (dozens) of Audax 100, 150, 200 rides and I can’t recall it getting me lost. If all else fails just follow the breadcrumb.
Having said all that it is a OLD device and the battery might now not even last a 100. Certainly play with it as a learning tool but if you really get into Audax then a newer version will be a huge asset, 530s are button only interface and should be cheapish as they have been superseded by 540 in last 6 months. If you “really” get into it I would recommend a newer touch screen model, at least a 830. Good luck.
PS https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/edge510/EN-US/Edge_510_OM_EN-US.pdf
And pay attention to the “Course Pt. Dist.” Data field
AND…These videos might be handy (VeloGPS 510 Playlists)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwZvUUCaBp9AfzE86s4IybBWM0iW90k5X
Post by: FifeingEejit on 26 January, 2024, 11:00:48 am
free rwgps puts the course points on the map divergence. (and thus often after it)
if you pay for rwgps you can tell it to move them a distance before, 10m being handy.
Sent from my IV2201 using Tapatalk
Post by: Maz on 26 January, 2024, 11:53:42 am
When I loaded the TCX file, it also pulled in the cue-sheet...don't know if this forum allows me to upload an image, but the cue-list is like I posted in cycleChat here:
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/first-audax-what-to-expect.295923/post-7140193
Hopefully the cue-list instructions will appear on screen during the ride.
Post by: drossall on 26 January, 2024, 05:12:40 pm
When I loaded the TCX file, it also pulled in the cue-sheet...don't know if this forum allows me to upload an image, but the cue-list is like I posted in cycleChat here:You can include images, but they need to be hosted somewhere. I'm cheating and using CycleChat. Normally you'd use some image-hosting site. I use Dropbox.
(https://www.cyclechat.net/attachments/img_20240125_222202-jpg.719800/)
Post by: Maz on 29 January, 2024, 10:36:22 am
Nice one, cheers.When I loaded the TCX file, it also pulled in the cue-sheet...don't know if this forum allows me to upload an image, but the cue-list is like I posted in cycleChat here:You can include images, but they need to be hosted somewhere. I'm cheating and using CycleChat. Normally you'd use some image-hosting site. I use Dropbox.
(https://www.cyclechat.net/attachments/img_20240125_222202-jpg.719800/)
Post by: Jamesha on 29 January, 2024, 05:01:47 pm
I you were to get lost I would not trust the re-routing on older Garmins. If you know vaguely where you are find a village on the route on your phone and head for that and you should be able to get back on track.
Also definitely take a battery pack. My Garmin 820 now lasts at most four fours but will run happlily from a powerbank in a toptube bank. A bonus for that approach is that the backlight can be permanently turned on which is useful when riding in the dark.
Post by: pineapple bod on 29 January, 2024, 08:22:19 pm
My Garmin 820 now lasts at most four fours but will run happily from a powerbank in a toptube bankBeware that some older Garmins (like the Edge 500) will reset when you plug in power unless you have a USB "on-the-go" (OTG) cable
Post by: Maz on 30 January, 2024, 11:49:25 am
Assuming you have a smart phone it would probably be worth downloading the ridewithgps app and loading the course on that as a backup.Not a bad idea. I will download the app.
I you were to get lost I would not trust the re-routing on older Garmins. If you know vaguely where you are find a village on the route on your phone and head for that and you should be able to get back on track.
Also definitely take a battery pack. My Garmin 820 now lasts at most four fours but will run happlily from a powerbank in a toptube bank. A bonus for that approach is that the backlight can be permanently turned on which is useful when riding in the dark.
I am also familiarising myself with the route, turn-by-turn mouse-clicking with google maps and the cue-list, imagining myself on the road, looking out for signposts and "points of interest/markers" along the route to give me some confidence I'm on the correct route!
Nerve-jangling stuff this Audax business!
Cheers
Post by: Wycombewheeler on 30 January, 2024, 02:26:34 pm
Assuming you have a smart phone it would probably be worth downloading the ridewithgps app and loading the course on that as a backup.I wouldn't trust re routing on any garmin, even the more modern ones often make strange conclusions, sending you in a circle to rejoin the route where you left it, and not just picking it up where you are. I can't seem to work out how to turn this "feature" off, without losing turn by turn prompts
I you were to get lost I would not trust the re-routing on older Garmins. If you know vaguely where you are find a village on the route on your phone and head for that and you should be able to get back on track.
Also definitely take a battery pack. My Garmin 820 now lasts at most four fours but will run happlily from a powerbank in a toptube bank. A bonus for that approach is that the backlight can be permanently turned on which is useful when riding in the dark.
I'd also be careful about charging from the top tube while riding, my experience is that the constant vibration damages either the usb connector or the socket so the cable/device combination is no longer effective for charging. charging while eating and drinking at any control stop is best. If charging while riding is required, best to consider the usb cables as consumables, and ensure you have spares at least at home.