Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => On The Road => Topic started by: LindaG on 26 May, 2010, 05:09:13 pm
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To avoid hijacking the 'Rural road deaths' thread, I am interested in the contents of forumers' bike-carried first aid kits.
Commercially provided kits seem (IMHO) to have very little of use in them. Plasters, alcohol wipes, non-adherent dressings (smallish), and that's pretty much it. In the event of a really serious accident they'd be useless.
Now, I accept I may be somewhat jaded. I am a surgical nurse and see more gore on a daily basis than most. They give me expensive stuff to deal with it. I laugh in the face of plasters.
What do you carry? What's your rationale for choice of kit?
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I have a selection of waterproof plasters. They stop my Achilles tendon area getting blistered from my sandals if I have to walk around too much, at Mildenhall for example. They also hold together bits of skin after bollard - pavement/face interface.
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What do you carry? What's your rationale for choice of kit?
Ibuprofen gel, co-codamol, Pro-plus. Knee pain, headache, sleepiness all reduced.
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I use the boots medium kit which was about £10 - £15 last time I checked.
Good kit with proper range of dressings, scissors, gloves, surgical tape etc etc, to that I add a military first field dressing, detol in little saches as it dilutes and goes a long way, a survival blanket, pain killers, zinc oxide tape maybe some compeed and some nail glue oh and a sharp knife.
Beyond that kit you are getting onto paramedics turf and I ain't a paramedic.
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Lidl motorcycle first aid kit. I use a chainsaw for work and you have to carry one with a large wound dressing. Having something calms the casualty, it gives you a role to play and them as well, it's usually a question of getting them to sit still while they calm down enough for it to be apparent if something more than hand wrist and collarbone are affected. If you haven't got a first aid kit, pretending you have would probably do as much good.
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Usually - almost nothing: the odd sticky plasters and ibuprofen tablets I can't take a hospital in my panniers.
Occasionally: (never actually used -rather bulky)
Geudel airway
Pocket mask
Gauze swabs
Ambulance dressings
Always: plain water in drink bottle - has numerous uses.
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Normally nothing other than a clean hanky. I remember a first aid course years ago where we were told that if nothing special is available then a clean hanky is very useful.
On tour I carry a kit which is about the size of an old 'baccy tin. This has plasters, dry dressings, tape, alcohol wipes. No pills or potions. I used it on myself last year when I cut a small slice in my leg instead of the piece of ham I was aiming for.
Do people really carry a first aid kit routinely? If so, do they carry it when walking to the shops, or is cycling seen as potentially more risky?
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Gaffer tape and cable ties mainly :-\
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First aid kits are to help when trying and keep the casualty in a state of not dead until the professionals arrive.
<Looks in bag, this is the actual contents of the small first aid pouch I've got with me, commuting in Surrey>
A couple of dressings to stop bleeding, mouth shield & latex gloves as I don't know what lurgies they may be carrying and I don't exchange bodily fluids with strangers, and a triangular bandage as you can do almost anything with one of them!
(Scissors, plasters and alcohol wipes are also in there, but don't count as first aid to my mind.)
Beyond that means of keeping the casualty warm would be next item on the list, but not so important given the situation I'm carrying this.
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The car kit is fairly big:
- A variety of ambulance dressings, including pressure dressings
- A variety of bandages
- General dressings (e.g. Melolin)
- Gauze swabs
- Plasters (assorted) and steristrips
- Splints - both hard and inflatable
- A variety of scissors and both venous and arterial clamps
- Scalpel handle and a selection of blades
- An assortment of needles and syringes
- Sterile saline
- Hibiscrub and surgical spirit/wipes
- Gloves
- A couple of airways and a face mask
- Sphyg and stethescope
- Common painkillers (aspirin and paracetemol)
- Pen and paper (v. important)
We also carry a survival blanket and a few other bits in the car breakdown kit.
The bike kit is smaller:
- Some wound dressings
- A couple of bandages
- General dressings (e.g. Melolin)
- Gauze swabs
- Scissors and scalpel blade(s)
- Plasters (assorted) and steristrips
- Saline and alcohol wipes
- Gloves
- Airway and face mask
- Painkillers
- Pen and paper
I tend only to carry the bike kit on longer rides. For urban rides I have a small kit which goes in whichever bag I have which has:
- A wound dressing
- A bandage
- General dressings (e.g. Melolin)
- Gauze swabs
- Scissors
- Plasters (assorted)
- Alcohol wipes
- Gloves
- Airway and face mask
- Painkillers
- Pen and paper
Not that much is needed as I always have a phone and an ambulance will be there quick enough...
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Greg, how much of that kit have you used?
Now that almost all phones can take pictures, don't forget a picture can be useful for subsequent care.
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Greg, how much of that kit have you used?
Now that almost all phones can take pictures, don't forget a picture can be useful for subsequent care.
The car kit was actually the bag I had when I was out in Zaire many years ago - and it got quite a bit of use out there. It also saw service when I was in Bosnia.
We've used it a few times. Usually road traffic incidents. The last big one was a motorcyclist POMB* two years ago - he wasn't a pretty sight and quite a bit got used.
The other kits tend to get used on me... :-[
*No leathers, helmet not done up properly, dirt tyres on the road...
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All I carry is a few plasters and wipes, plus an asprin for any heart attack sufferer that I come accross. I like to minimise my luggage, and I wouldn't know how to use advanced first aid equipment anyway.
The only pain killers I can take myself are opiates - which I can't get without prescription :( (Alergic to paracetamol and could have stomach problems with others).
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Ah! Aspirin. That really is a good idea.
Where in heaven's name do you get hold of ambulance dressings and scalpels?!
Did you use them to staunch active bleeding?
What did the paramedics do with your dressings when they arrived?
How did you clean the road gunk out of the wounds?
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Imigran. I no longer fear my annual migraine. Taken early enough, it stops the attack, rather than just being a pain suppressant.
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You can squirt water from a typical bike water bottle at high pressure to clean a wound. Not all that hygenic, but perhaps better than leaving road dirt in?
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Little lifesystems pouch, more or less always with me, contains:
Some biggish elastoplast (never used)
Antiseptic wipes (have used these to clean scrapes)
Melolin dressings, roughly pedal sized (as it was a pedal sized hole in my leg I needed to cover when I last used these)
Crepe bandage (never used)
Sting spray (never used, but bridleways round here often have a lot of nettles by them in the summer)
Hay feaver tablets (never used from the kit, but I do use them generally)
SPF 30 (used)
a whistle (never used)
scissors (hence no small plasters)
safety pins (never used)
micropore tape (used with dressings)
the tool kit has gloves and wet wipes
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So, apart from Regulator and Hellymedic, we all carry small stuff for small cuts and scrapes that won't require professional intervention.
A plaster or an alcohol wipe is unlikely to keep you alive till the ambulance gets there if you are bleeding from an artery or you have a punctured lung.
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I keep these handy.
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c234/Zoiders/FFD2.jpg)
The boots kit is quite in depth and I know how to treat a sucking chest wound.
Smut to unsue.
::-)
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So, apart from Regulator and Hellymedic, we all carry small stuff for small cuts and scrapes that won't require professional intervention.
A plaster or an alcohol wipe is unlikely to keep you alive till the ambulance gets there if you are bleeding from an artery or you have a punctured lung.
RJs gaffer tape holding a plastic bag over the puncture wound might help with the lung problem.
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Army first field dressing like Zoiders, pair of gloves, mouth to mouth barrier and survival blanket is all I carry on Audaxes as a matter of routine. And bum cream and Ibuprofen for me! :-)
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Use the dressing wrapper sterile side dwn to make the flutter valve, or you can make one from the finger of a surgical glove.
I don't carry bum cream like Tewdric - what he gets up to in bus shelters on audax rides is his business.
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Large melonin dressings.
Tape.
Assortment of plasters for minor irritating scratches.
Crepe bandage.
Alcohol hand cleaner
gloves.
That really is about it of any use. Tick remover hook.
Then there are athe drugs - antihistamines, imigran, ibuprofen, and a few others - personal use only.
I'm broom waggon for the race on Saturday so will have a fair sized selection of stuff, but it is really only to stop serious bleeding until professional help arrives. I only have a basic first aid cert.
..d
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Army first field dressing like Zoiders, pair of gloves, mouth to mouth barrier and survival blanket is all I carry on Audaxes as a matter of routine. And bum cream and Ibuprofen for me! :-)
As always, ibuprofen should not be used to treat the patient who is bleeding or has internal injuries such as bruising, it interferes with platelet function, by how much is debateable, but it does.
Platelet Function after Taking Ibuprofen for 1 Week — Ann Intern Med (http://www.annals.org/content/142/7/I-54.full)
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I would not fuss it. I bet it takes a lot and a patient could be rammed full of brufen anyway.
Higher dose NSAI are a risk though.
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Ah! Aspirin. That really is a good idea.
Where in heaven's name do you get hold of ambulance dressings and scalpels?!
You can buy ambulance style dressings from quite a few specialist pharmacies and suppliers - same with scalpel blades.
Did you use them to staunch active bleeding?
What did the paramedics do with your dressings when they arrived?
We explained what had been done and they left them on. One was beginning to ooze a little so they slapped another dressing over the top.
How did you clean the road gunk out of the wounds?
Saline. I've got some small bottles (available from larger Boots stores or specialist pharmacies like John, Bell & Croyden). I've also got some sachets - cut a small hole in the corner and squeeze to get a good jet.
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Ibuprofen is also not advisable for anyone with a history of stomach ulcers.
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I see my problem. I am ALS trained (for a whole fortnight now!) and can deal with a punctured lung (the kind you can't see).
An external punctured lung can be dealt with using your (or someone else's) hand over the flap, if necessary. It takes two to do efficient CPR but I can (and have done) that.
I know how to stop someone bleeding to death from an external wound. I can apply a pressure dressing. Clean T-shirt and something to tie it with would do in a pinch, I suppose.
I think I could keep a casualty alive till the guys with the chopper got there, if it were indeed possible to do so.
I guess what someone like me needs, is a First Aid course. Because it's years since I've done one of those.
Things that can kill you at the scene:
Bleeding a lot
Choking
Spinal cord injury
Anaphylaxis
Myocardial infarction (quickly or slowly)
Drowning
Freezing
Deflated lung
Bruised/bleeding heart
Brain damage
Bleed/blockage in the brain
So the most useful things to cope with that lot are your pressure dressing and some aspirin, I guess.
What does the panel think?
Which specialist pharmacy? And what would you use your scalpel for?
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The big kit has the kitchen sink in it. And a snaplight in case of involvement with drama on unlit roads. And burn gel. And a dental kit (I have three crowns and my face is a braking surface). Spare spectacles. Cohesive bandage. Big dressings. Plenty of wipes. No sucking-chest-wound plug or kerlix, though. ;)
The adventure kit is smaller, has lots of tripsavers like antihistamines, cocodamol and imodium as well as compeeds, eye wash, and the usual plasters, dressings and wipes. Voltarol gel. Caladryl (awesome stuff - calamine + antihistamine) cream for bites.
The booboo kit is cropped down to a tape case, and is just the tripsavers, a dressing, couple of pirate plasters (for attendant kids!), a dressing, steristrips.
Of the lot, the compeed, antihstamines and caladryl have been used the most.
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Scalpel to be used to cut boot laces.
While the wearer is asleep.
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Sheets of tegaderm.
Knowledge of arterial routes for pressure points.
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I keep these handy.
The boots kit is quite in depth and I know how to treat a sucking chest wound.
Smut to unsue.
::-)
Where can you get one of those Zoidburg? Have you a linky?
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kit Monster (http://www.ukkitmonster.com/product_info.php?products_id=309)
Or get someone in the forces to steal some for you.
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Ibuprofen is also not advisable for anyone with a history of stomach ulcers.
Which is why you should NEVER carry medicines in a first aid kit!
Personally I carry nothing. There is very little that a first aid kit will treat that cannot be treated reasonably well with stuff from the local environment.
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Scalpel to be used to cut boot laces.
While the wearer is asleep.
I believe its polite to wait until they are unconscious or dead before nicking their boots!
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Ibuprofen is also not advisable for anyone with a history of stomach ulcers.
Which is why you should NEVER carry medicines in a first aid kit!
Personally I carry nothing. There is very little that a first aid kit will treat that cannot be treated reasonably well with stuff from the local environment.
Yes you should.
You just don't give it others unless they ask and you know they aren't going sue you. Handbook say no - reality says take the pain sweeties.
Being able to relieve/control pain to mantain your mobility is your own responsibility when you head outdoors, if you aren't prepared to take that responsiblity then stay at home.
As to carrying nothing - well thats just stupidity - sorry but it is.
Injuries don't kill, immobility caused by the injury followed by hypothermia kills.
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I don't carry a first aid kit as such, but I do tend to carry a selection of drugs for personal use that can help avoid minor disasters: salbutamol, antihistamines, diclofenac, hyoscine. I usually have a roll of micropore tape and plenty of clean tissues, from which dressings for non-serious wounds may be improvised as necessary. Also a space blanket, and some low-sodium salt. And I tend to make sure I've got enough extra water to give any road-rash a thorough squirt or, more commonly, wash things out of eyes. Oh and there are some non-sterile gloves in the p*nct*re kit, that might be of use.
And a mobile phone, and enough bike tools to botch my way back to mobility in most circumstances.
Short of a serious encounter with a motor vehicle, my main enemies are pollen, my own digestive system and loose gravel. I reckon that's got it covered.
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kit Monster (http://www.ukkitmonster.com/product_info.php?products_id=309)
Or get someone in the forces to steal some for you.
Flipping Flip! I nearly bought two, then saw the £6.50 postage charge!
So who around here is in the Forces and can obtain a couple of these for me?
They appear most useful.
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Try pinching something a similar size from work?
I bet someone you work with serves in the RAMC and could pinch you some.
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I have a small first aid bag that cost a couple of pounds from a cheap shop. I've stocked it myself with the stuff I know how to use and would find useful:-
plasters
wipes
crepe bandage
melolin patches
surgical tape
ibuprofen, paracetamol, pro plus, diclofenac
scissors, safety pins etc.
Mainly this is cope with discomfort or minor fettling injuries rather than that I expect to come off and get hurt.
On long rides I also carry sudocrem and also a roll of athletic tape in case of tendon problems (I had some problems 18 months ago which haven't re-occured, but for the space and weight I prefer be prepared in case it does come back hundreds of miles from home).
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We haven't heard from Nutty yet....
I'd be amazed if he has anything less than an air ambulance on 24 hour standby ;D
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Tell me more of this tegaderm...
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I just carry knowledge.
And a phone.
O and gloves, wipes, water, bum cream, a sharp knife, plastic bags, hankies, paracetamol, brufen, feminine hygiene products. Sometimes I have a survival blanket. I used to have some tegaderm but used them all, and I used to carry a mask but got out of the habit.
But the stuff in my head is the most important.
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Ah yes, feminine hygiene products.
I carry femfresh wipes too - but that's more maintenance with the sudocrem than first aid - wipe to clean off sweat etc. before reapplying cream.
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Ah yes, feminine hygiene products.
I carry femfresh wipes too - but that's more maintenance with the sudocrem than first aid - wipe to clean off sweat etc. before reapplying cream.
Tampons can be used to plug gunshot wounds and stem the bleeding from broken noses.
How usefull this info is depends on where you go cycling I would imagine.
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I have three levels of FAK. The one at home is a gert big cardboard box, containing enough dressings, drugs and kit to survive a minor zombie outbreak.
The second isn't really an FAK at all, it's a comfort kit that comes out with me when I'm on longer rides or at times when I'm in a position when someone ought to be carrying some kit. It's a small tupperware box, containing dressings, plasters, steristrips and the sort of thing that you'd need to cope with someone stacking a bike. It also contains Auntie Charlotte's magic briefcase - a selection of painkillers, stimulants and happy pills of various provenance which have proved themselves useful during the course of lengthy bike rides and aren't for consumption by anyone other than me or my cohort.
But on a day to day basis, I carry very little. Like many others, I reckon that the most useful thing is to have done some first aid training, to know CPR and to be able to manage the first few minutes of any incident. Knowledge is way more important than kit.
That said, this is what lives on or in my messenger bag, day in and day out:
Non-latex inspection gloves
Resuss mask
Benchmade ERT-1 Response Knife
Fenix LD01 torch
Mobile phone
My feeling is that in London, you're never more than a few minutes away from a paramedic. I don't routinely carry boo-boo kit on the basis that if it's minor enough to be treatable with a plaster, it can wait until I'm near a source of them.
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I do normally carry a FAK at all times. That said, it lives in my saddlebag, and I forgot to transfer it to my wedgebag on the Woodrup this morning :-[
It contains plasters, micropore tape, dressings, a triangular bandage, latex gloves, mask and a few other things. In a situation, I would expect to be using my Swiss Army Knife and mobile phone as well.
I have up to date BLS training, but I am not looking forward to the first time I need it.
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I am nervous about the weekend riding the broom waggon in a race convoy. I should look up and revise my first aid cert stuff. There will be others with First Aid training.
Things to be very careful about:
broken bones.
Back/neck injuries.
Concussion.
Excessive bleeding.
Shock.
resuss/pules/breating shouldn't be too bad
First aid is about stopping things getting worse until the properly trained and equipped people arrive.
My biggest fear is complex situations with contraindicated treatments. That requires judgment calls.
(reminds self to get a second mobile on a different provider.)
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Ibuprofen is also not advisable for anyone with a history of stomach ulcers.
Which is why you should NEVER carry medicines in a first aid kit!
Indeed. I'm quite concerned by the number of people who are talking about giving aspirin to people with heart attacks. I'm quite happy to carry painkillers in the ouchie kit and distribute them to friends and relations, but a FAK is for keeping people alive until the ambulance arrives. You don't know what other drugs your patient has taken, you don't know their allergies, and you don't know what medication the ambulance crew will want to use. You should NEVER give anyone any medication -not even their own (though you can assist them in using the latter).
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In terms of medication, I carry paracetamol, Gaviscon, uniphyllin, a number of salbutamol inhalers, sometimes my other inhalers, occasionally sore throat pastilles, witch hazel stick and olbas oil.
All for personal use only
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I must confess to handing out drugs like candy. :-[
(though it's usually just antihistamines. or astana beans.)
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I carry ibuprofen, pro plus, a few plasters, antiseptic cream and antiseptic wipes.
They rarely get used, but the only time I needed to use the antiseptic wipes was to remove some dogshit from my handlebars. Couldn't have done without them.
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In terms of medication, I carry paracetamol, Gaviscon, uniphyllin, a number of salbutamol inhalers, sometimes my other inhalers, occasionally sore throat pastilles, witch hazel stick and olbas oil.
All for personal use only
Same here. The drugs in my FAKs are for personal use - or for other people I am riding with.
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Ibuprofen is also not advisable for anyone with a history of stomach ulcers.
Which is why you should NEVER carry medicines in a first aid kit!
Indeed. I'm quite concerned by the number of people who are talking about giving aspirin to people with heart attacks. I'm quite happy to carry painkillers in the ouchie kit and distribute them to friends and relations, but a FAK is for keeping people alive until the ambulance arrives. You don't know what other drugs your patient has taken, you don't know their allergies, and you don't know what medication the ambulance crew will want to use. You should NEVER give anyone any medication -not even their own (though you can assist them in using the latter).
I disagree. If someone is having a heart attack aspirin could save their life. I would give it the sooner the better. If you make sure there's an ambulance on the way, they're going to hospital anyway. One dose of aspirin (even 300mg) is less likely to kill them than a massive MI. Of course you would find out (if possible) if the poorly person had a history of bleeding stomach ulcers or NSAID allergy but it's a question of balancing risk.
What is your basis for refusing to give any medication? Does it come from an 'official' guideline from somewhere?
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(Not on a bike but) I once used a disposable nappy as a wound dressing.
Knowledge and resourcefulness...
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(Not on a bike but) I once used a disposable nappy as a wound dressing.
Knowledge and resourcefulness...
I have a male friend who keeps sanitary towels in his car FAK for this purpose: cheapish, clean and absorbent.
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Do you remember the ones with loops that went with a belt?
They'd be more use as field dressings than they were as ST's.
Progress :)
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I disagree. If someone is having a heart attack aspirin could save their life. I would give it the sooner the better. If you make sure there's an ambulance on the way, they're going to hospital anyway. One dose of aspirin (even 300mg) is less likely to kill them than a massive MI. Of course you would find out (if possible) if the poorly person had a history of bleeding stomach ulcers or NSAID allergy but it's a question of balancing risk.
What is your basis for refusing to give any medication? Does it come from an 'official' guideline from somewhere?
It's "official" Red Cross training, along with a warning that one could have one's First Aider qualification revoked. And since my First Aid training is paid for by my employer, it would probay become a disiplinary matter.
Mind you, if someone at work was having a heart attack, I'd use a defibrulator rather than an aspirin. ;)
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Again, good reason for me to take a First Aid qualification.
I'm a qualified first responder for cardiac arrest in hospital, and expected to give aspirin if someone's having an MI.
Obviously, some of those skills are transferable but ...
Things are different in the 'real world'.
In hospital you are in a position to (hopefully) avoid the need for a difibrillator if someone's having an MI. Sometimes.
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Just to clarify, an MI is not the same as a cardiac arrest.
Of course you wouldn't fart about with aspirin if someone had had a cardiac arrest.
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Cable ties and hip flask of decent single malt.
I can always rinse their would with a little bit of it, if they're in a bad way and not likely to make it then they can have a good swig and go out happy. If they're totally smeared across the road and extinct already then I can have a good swig to toast their passing.
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I have a male friend who keeps sanitary towels in his car FAK for this purpose: cheapish, clean and absorbent.
And better than most dressings for annoying weepy road-rash type wounds :thumbsup:
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Zipperhead.... I'm (cough) not feeling ...so ... great.
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Indeed. I'm quite concerned by the number of people who are talking about giving aspirin to people with heart attacks. I'm quite happy to carry painkillers in the ouchie kit and distribute them to friends and relations, but a FAK is for keeping people alive until the ambulance arrives. You don't know what other drugs your patient has taken, you don't know their allergies, and you don't know what medication the ambulance crew will want to use. You should NEVER give anyone any medication -not even their own (though you can assist them in using the latter).
The person may die before the ambulance arrives if you don't give an asprin. There is some risk if you do, but more risk if you don't.
Heart Attack - Aspirin can save lives! (http://www.heart-attack-aspirin-saves-lives.org.uk/)
(Soluable is apparently the best form of asprin for this).
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Even if you don't think it's right to adminster to others, carry an asprin for yourself if you're over 50 (some say 40).
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I have today received a first aid instruction sheet (https://www.sja.org.uk/sja/support-us/the-difference/get-a-free-first-aid-guide.aspx) from St John Ambulance. This is for members of the public.
Under "When someone is having a heart attack", in addition to other advise, it says: "If available and the person is not allergic, give them an asprin (300mg) and tell them to chew it slowly".
So, if you have been told in first aid training never to adminster any drug in any circumstances, perhaps that advice is out of date.
I have read and heard from quite a few sources now that asprin can be a life-saver - so please take this seriously and research further if you're still not happy.