Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => OT Knowledge => Topic started by: Gandalf on 02 April, 2008, 04:42:04 pm
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I just just wondering if any French speakers could give a few last minute survival tips. Last time I spoke any French was for my GCSE back in 1974. Any phrases I can remember now are of the Del Trotter variety.
I'm off to Normandy for the weekend, courtesy of a birthday surprise from my wife. The problem is I am vegan and I'm not terribly optimistic about getting anything to eat.
Are there any short, simple phrases that might explain my plight? Most of the ones I have found seem longer than the Gettysburg address.
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Je suis végétalien
Je suis végétarien strict
both mean "I'm a vegan."
Whether the person you're talking to will understand what veganism is, I can't tell you.
Je ne mange ni la viande, ni du lait, ni le fromage, ni les oeufs
might suit better.
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Still time to watch Pink Panther films and Allo Allo and don't forget to shrug those shoulders! :thumbsup:
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Je pense que je peux être dans le mauvais pays.
;D
Sorry, I know it is a real problem that I (as an omnivore) haven't experienced.
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I have been told by a former vegan that the French have no concept of veganism and she had to eschew it to prevent starvation.
:( :( :(
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je mange seulement de la viande crue.
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;D
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je mange seulement de la viande crue.
Vous êtes tres méchant.
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You are going to struggle. Seriously. They don't understand vegetarianism, let alone veganism. I manage because I'm veggie and I love cheese, but I suspect you're going to have a lot of green salads.
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Even if they do understand the words they may not understand the concept.
I've witnessed fluent French speakers ordering a vegetarian salad only for it to arrive with ham/lardons on. The explanation from the waitress: "Ham is not meat."
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Pasta and tomato sauce could be your only option.
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je mange seulement de la viande crue.
Very droll.
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vegetarianism is very slowly caching on in France; mainly "ethnic" as it's probably a National Shame to admit to not eating Steack Tartare. There are ready meals for veggies in hypermarches, but I imagine the concept of no dairy products is too left field for them to take on board. I tend to go for things which couldn't possibly be fried in lard mainly pizza/ pasta. France is one reason I eat fish.
if living out of shops avoid anything with graisse animale plus the usual eggs / dairy products.
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Thing is, it's not just no dairy - it's no honey, no gelatine, no isinglass, no rennet, no animal products at all in the ingredients, cooking process, anything. I have vegan friends and I'm constantly in awe of how much effort they have to put into finding substitutes, and how difficult it can be for them to eat out.
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Damn! Mon livre ist dans mon locker!
Last unit we were taught what to say on an exchange trip, and we got told to say something like Je suis vegitarian(ne). The word for vegan is végétalien, so you would say Je suis végétalien. Maybe Je ne mange pas viande, which means I don't eat meat, or Je ne mange pas viande ou les prouduits de viande ou crémerie (I don't eat meat or meat products or dairy). It all sounds a bit long winded but this is French, after all.... ::-) ;D
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Frites, s'il vous plait.
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Frites, s'il vous plait.
en huile vegetale;
sans Mayonniase Moules et Biere Belge
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How prepared are you to turn a blind eye to, for example, what things have been cooked in?
On PBP, I got thoroughly told off by the French riders and their support guys for making beans on toast for those who wanted them. I explained that it was for vegetarians, and I was told that even if they don't eat meat, I could at least put some lardons into the beans...
A vegetarian in France IME can also mean "won't eat lumps of animal muscle, but will eat lardons, poultry and fish."
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Deux bières, s’il vous plaît. Mon ami va payer.
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My sister used to be a veggie before she came to her senses. The way she got round it in Europe was to explain that she had an extreme allergy to any animally type stuff and that if her food contained any, she would be requiring an ambulance, or worse - investigators would be asking the owners why one of their customers had died in their premises.
Noses were turned up, but apparently it was a successful tactic.
My French is too rubbish to attempt a suitable phrase for this!
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How prepared are you to turn a blind eye to, for example, what things have been cooked in?
not at all; animal fat is the worst crime imaginable IMO; when Mc Dogburgers announced they were going to continue frying chips fries (they can't be chips as they aren't potato) in lard there was an outcry by everyone apart from the hardened dead animal brigade and they eventually relented
Even Wimpy came in for stick for using the same (vegetable) oil to cook their beanburgers as the fish.
no idea about Harry Ramsdens who used to reckon chips aren't chips unless cooked in lard; wouldn't buy it anyway out of principal
I gave up eating in the PBP controls after about day 2 because of the appaling lack of anything useful for veggies.
Rancid boiling lard in chip shops makes me heave
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fries (they can't be chips as they aren't potato)
Urban myth, they are made from spuds, and are made by McCains...
Back on topic I used to work in a chippy and the number of students that came in asking what we cooked our chips in was manyfold. This being in the frozen north finding a chippy that didn't use dripping to cook the chips was impossible, AFAIK there was none in that town that cooked the chips in veg fat...
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In the North East there is a Colbeck's Beef Dripping company ! Nice to see the family name employed for such a glorious food stuff.
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Liz had it about right, but you might need to back it up when you say "pas de viande".
That means "pas de jambon, pas de poulet, pas de tous types de viande!!!"
Vegan is going to be pretty hard, since cheese will be out, you might survive on "salade, tomates, maïs, concombre, betterave" and of course "avec du pain", do you think you are ok with crossain and, pain au raison?
Lentiles? Though if you say that you will probably get jambon mixed in it.
Pomme de terre purré, but they put lots of butter in it.
In fact take food with you!
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fries (they can't be chips as they aren't potato)
Urban myth, they are made from spuds, and are made by McCains...
maybe now but I thought they used to be maize starch, or was that their milk shakes?
funny you should mention students; veggi-ism is viewed by the marketing men as an adolescent and also predominantly female phase which people go through, the "recipe for love" ads by the meat marketing board were aimed at young women, "you won't get a bloke and keep him unless you feed him steak" according to a TV interview with one of their chief spokestwats.
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How prepared are you to turn a blind eye to, for example, what things have been cooked in?
not at all; animal fat is the worst crime imaginable IMO; when Mc Dogburgers announced they were going to continue frying chips fries (they can't be chips as they aren't potato) in lard there was an outcry by everyone apart from the hardened dead animal brigade and they eventually relented
Even Wimpy came in for stick for using the same (vegetable) oil to cook their beanburgers as the fish.
no idea about Harry Ramsdens who used to reckon chips aren't chips unless cooked in lard; wouldn't buy it anyway out of principal
I gave up eating in the PBP controls after about day 2 because of the appaling lack of anything useful for veggies.
Rancid boiling lard in chip shops makes me heave
As far as I can ascertain, McDogs use vegetable oil for frying.
This is not a recommendation.
http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/resources/img/sections/eatsmart/Nutrition.pdf (http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/resources/img/sections/eatsmart/Nutrition.pdf)
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Liz had it about right, but you might need to back it up when you say "pas de viande".
That means "pas de jambon, pas de poulet, pas de tous types de viande!!!"
Vegan is going to be pretty hard, since cheese will be out, you might survive on "salade, tomates, maïs, concombre, betterave" and of course "avec du pain", do you think you are ok with crossain and, pain au raison?
Lentiles? Though if you say that you will probably get jambon mixed in it.
Pomme de terre purré, but they put lots of butter in it.
In fact take food with you!
Don't croissants contain butter?
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Frenchie of course gives us an insight into the ideal Gallic meal on his travels in Argentina. Argentinean delight (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=225.0)
Sunflower oil is generally used for chips in Lancashire.
Damon.
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Liz had it about right, but you might need to back it up when you say "pas de viande".
That means "pas de jambon, pas de poulet, pas de tous types de viande!!!"
Vegan is going to be pretty hard, since cheese will be out, you might survive on "salade, tomates, maïs, concombre, betterave" and of course "avec du pain", do you think you are ok with crossain and, pain au raison?
Lentiles? Though if you say that you will probably get jambon mixed in it.
Pomme de terre purré, but they put lots of butter in it.
In fact take food with you!
Don't croissants contain butter?
A bit!
OK, a lot.
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As far as I can ascertain, McDogs use vegetable oil for frying.
This is not a recommendation.
http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/resources/img/sections/eatsmart/Nutrition.pdf (http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/resources/img/sections/eatsmart/Nutrition.pdf)
Except when, despite saying they use 100% Vegetable Oil, they actually use beef fat.
[EDIT] Proper link rather than the cBBC link!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/1348296.stm
The initial blanching at the factory, before they are frozen and shipped, was done in beef fat.
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As far as I can ascertain, McDogs use vegetable oil for frying.
This is not a recommendation.
http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/resources/img/sections/eatsmart/Nutrition.pdf (http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/resources/img/sections/eatsmart/Nutrition.pdf)
Except when, despite saying they use 100% Vegetable Oil, they actually use beef fat.
[EDIT] Proper link rather than the cBBC link!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/1348296.stm
The initial blanching at the factory, before they are frozen and shipped, was done in beef fat.
That page is nearly 7 years old. Do they still do this?
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Liz puts it very well.
You could go down the (super)market, get some tinned lentils, tinned haricot beans in tomato sauce (like our baked beans but a bit nicer) and put together something with all the yummy fresh fruit, veg and bread that's around, then go to the restaurant and order salad, wine and coffee
Also, I noticed on my last ride across France (Oct-Nov 06) how many small towns now have vegan / organic / 'health food' shops. Not as amny as the UK but you've a better than evens chance I'd say. You could visit one and ask what local possibilities are for eating out. staff are likely to know of sympathetic local restaurants who'd understand and try to fix you up.
Hope this helps
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Liz puts it very well.
You could go down the (super)market, get some tinned lentils, tinned haricot beans in tomato sauce (like our baked beans but a bit nicer) and put together something with all the yummy fresh fruit, veg and bread that's around, then go to the restaurant and order salad, wine and coffee
Also, I noticed on my last ride across France (Oct-Nov 06) how many small towns now have vegan / organic / 'health food' shops. Not as amny as the UK but you've a better than evens chance I'd say. You could visit one and ask what local possibilities are for eating out. staff are likely to know of sympathetic local restaurants who'd understand and try to fix you up.
Hope this helps
Yes and those shops are known as "bio" shops in France, pronounced "byo", they are full of all that weird stuff that vegans and vegetarians eat, plus free-range meat and all that malarky. You would need to ask for a "magasin byo" or "alimentation byo".
Incidentally I don't eat meat either, but I think being vegan would be a challenge on holiday in lots of places.
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I'm off to Normandy for the weekend, courtesy of a birthday surprise from my wife. The problem is I am vegan and I'm not terribly optimistic about getting anything to eat.
That's quite a surprise, taking a Vegan to France. I assume you forgot her birthday or anniversary.
Most restaurants do amazing salads and can easily hold back on all the good stuff offending items or supplement it with other veggies. Take a piece of paper with ALLERGIE written on it and list of things you don't want to eat underneath. Present to Waiter. It may work (listen for laughter from kitchen)
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Touring with a vegetarian friend in France was difficult, particularly when trying to buy sandwiches from boulangeries. A typical conversation would go (provided in English cause my french grammar is terrible):
'A vegetarian sandwich, please'
'Uh?'
'A sandwich with no meat in it, please'
'Of course! We have riettes.'
'I'm afraid my friend can't eat that. It's made out of sheep'
'Yes, but it isn't meat'
'Still, he can't eat it'
'How about chicken then?'
'No, he can't eat that either.'
Then there would be a pensive silence, and the boulangier would lean over the counter, drop their voice conspiratorially, and nod at my friend (who is asian). 'Il est oriéntal?'
He ate a lot of camenbert sandwiches and omelettes that week.
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OK folks, thank you for the mostly constructive replies.
I found the following from a vegetarian website, so unless anyone thinks it's wrong I'll try and use that
Je suis vegan (végétalienne). Je mange que des vegetables, cereals et grains. Je ne mange pas des produits animaux, ni du miel, ouefs ou laitage et ses dérivés. Pouvez-vouz m'aider à choisir dans votre menu ? S'il vous plaît, alertais-moi si un repas, sauce ou garniture à ces ingredients. - I'm vegan. I only eat vegetables, cereals and grains. I don't eat any animal products, neither honey, eggs nor dairy and its derivatives. Can you assist me in making my choice from your menu? Please, alert me if a food, sauce or garnish contains these ingredients.
Je suis un végétarien(ne). Je ne mange pas de viande, de porc ou de poulet - I am a vegetarian(female). I do not eat meat, pork or chicken
Je ne mange pas d'œufs, du lait ni de fromage - I do not eat eggs, milk or cheese
Végétalien(ne) - vegan
The bit I totally don't get is the masculine/feminine thing, but that's clearly going to be the least of my worries.
As for Muckdonald's it's academic, as I wouldn't be seen dead in there anyway.
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I'm off to Normandy for the weekend, courtesy of a birthday surprise from my wife. The problem is I am vegan and I'm not terribly optimistic about getting anything to eat.
That's quite a surprise, taking a Vegan to France. I assume you forgot her birthday or anniversary.
Most restaurants do amazing salads and can easily hold back on all the good stuff offending items or supplement it with other veggies. Take a piece of paper with ALLERGIE written on it and list of things you don't want to eat underneath. Present to Waiter. It may work (listen for laughter from kitchen)
Oh well, I'ts only for a couple of days and I am taking some food with me. To be blunt if they wan't me to grovel I'd rather go without and not give them my money.
BTW, my wife isn't even coming, it will just be me and my son
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I'm off to Normandy for the weekend, courtesy of a birthday surprise from my wife. The problem is I am vegan and I'm not terribly optimistic about getting anything to eat.
That's quite a surprise, taking a Vegan to France. I assume you forgot her birthday or anniversary.
Librarian !!
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I think it should be easier than this thread indicates
I'm veggie -and I travel a lot with work - and really, if you persevere, that's not an issue anywhere much anywhere in Europe anymore.
Veganism will be more tricky - but you can almost always get a really good salad or a plate of vegetables.
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just dont go to China - my vegetarian colleagues from India who were working there for about 3 months lived on rice and tea. Vegetarian there seems to mean 'eats pork as long as it doesnt look like a lump of pig'
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I haven't been to China...
We were in Kuala Lumpur a few years ago and there we went to an ethnic Chinese restaurant hidden at the back of Chinatown. Not the sort of place that got many tourists - a meal for 2 cost les than an orange juice cost in the bar of the hotel we were in :o
Anyway, their specialty was making food that looked exactly like meat and fish, but out of vegetables. It really was disconcerting because it was amazingly realistic to look at but was def a vegetable when tasted.
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There's a vegan Chinese buffet down the road from me, which does surprisingly realistic prawn toast. :)
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I am surprised that no one has offered Voulez-vous coucher avec moi, ce soir?.
This always helped me speed through controls on my ride in France last year.
H
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As one qui a couché avec Hummers, I can confirm that he is a master of the art :thumbsup:
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Anyway, their specialty was making food that looked exactly like meat and fish, but out of vegetables
Yes, this is a well-known cuisine in China, from Buddhist tradition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_cuisine). Sure it's minority but most larger cities should have restaurants like this.
And in China you can always have them take you into the kitchen, point at veg and tofu and ask them to stir-fry it; things are less menu-based than in Europe
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OK folks, thank you for the mostly constructive replies.
I found the following from a vegetarian website, so unless anyone thinks it's wrong I'll try and use that
Je suis vegan (végétalienne). Je mange que des vegetables, cereals et grains. Je ne mange pas des produits animaux, ni du miel, ouefs ou laitage et ses dérivés. Pouvez-vouz m'aider à choisir dans votre menu ? S'il vous plaît, alertais-moi si un repas, sauce ou garniture à ces ingredients. - I'm vegan. I only eat vegetables, cereals and grains. I don't eat any animal products, neither honey, eggs nor dairy and its derivatives. Can you assist me in making my choice from your menu? Please, alert me if a food, sauce or garnish contains these ingredients.
Je suis un végétarien(ne). Je ne mange pas de viande, de porc ou de poulet - I am a vegetarian(female). I do not eat meat, pork or chicken
Je ne mange pas d'œufs, du lait ni de fromage - I do not eat eggs, milk or cheese
Végétalien(ne) - vegan
The bit I totally don't get is the masculine/feminine thing, but that's clearly going to be the least of my worries.
As for Muckdonald's it's academic, as I wouldn't be seen dead in there anyway.
Gandalf,
the above is fine, but a wee bit long winded & that it has "vegetalienne" in the feminine, which could cause some amusement (& it's dropped the odd "ne" & "ni," but it's too early to be correcting stuff just now).
I'm vegan & have spent time in France & am heading to Provence later in the year (which will be really interesting) & it's a long way from impossible. As stated above, "les magasins bio," are useful for finding stuff in & pasta arrabiata in Italian restaurants is usually a good fall-back option.
How you explain your diet is really about how you feel comfortable to do it. I find that in the France, where folk from the UK would ask, "why?" the French are more likely to ask, "what?" I'll prob be explaining that I'm vegetarian with a dairy allergy & egg allergy, cos it's far simpler & generates less debate/strange looks/disbelief etc...
I found a couple of potentially useful links for you:
http://www.happycow.net/europe/france/region_notes.htm
http://www.happycow.net/europe/france/normandy/index.html
There's a fair amount in French also, which I'm sure I (or a number of other folks here) would be happy to translate for you if you struggle.
I'll be taking a list of restaurants/shops from the internet with me when I go, then play it by ear.
A friend of mine took his son (who is vegan) to Normandy 3 years ago & the whole family has terrible French & they survived with no bother.
If you were going to Portugal, then that would be a different story....
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Oh well , it wasn't too bad in the end and it was only for the weekend anyway.
I had already paid for meals in the hotel and told them well in advance of my dietary requirements. Only one waiter raised a quizzical eye and said "you can live like this?". Sadly my lack of French prevented me from remarking that yes he was quite right, I actually died months ago and he was now looking at a hologram.
Breakfast was a self service buffet affair and I had plenty of good stuff to choose from.
I just find it odd that a country which prides itself on matters culinary should find providing imaginative and wholesome vegan meals so difficult, you would think they would relish the challenge.
Surely a plate of vegetables and a plain jacket potato still in the tinfoil is hardly the pinnacle of culinary excellence is it?
I wouldn't mind but on the second evening they asked if I wanted the same again!
Normandy is a lovely place, doing a Battlefield tour it was so hard to associate the place with the horrors of sixty odd years ago.
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If you were going to Portugal, then that would be a different story....
Or Serbia - when I was last there it was suggested my colleague visited if we got the order.
"But he is vegetarian"
cue a big smile from my host and:
"He can watch!"
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Or Serbia - when I was last there it was suggested my colleague visited if we got the order.
"But he is vegetarian"
cue a big smile from my host and:
"He can watch!"
I went to Serbia for a friends wedding.
Death by a thousand cuts (of meat).
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Je suis végétalien
Je suis végétarien strict
both mean "I'm a vegan."
Whether the person you're talking to will understand what veganism is, I can't tell you.
Je ne mange ni la viande, ni du lait, ni le fromage, ni les oeufs
might suit better.
Might not really work unless you are in a large town!! ;D
Vegetarianism to most places which enjoy food and have a tradition of "the table" are a real challenge IME. Look at the latin countries in Europe as an example. Furthermore in many latin countries, with a Spanish/Portuguese connection in particular, meat = beef, and chicken and other hams may end up in one's plate if you say you do not eat "meat".
For what it's worth my grand mother, a great cook, used to say that vegetarians do not enjoy food (it might be better translated as cannot as it was said with such a surprise in her voice and ended with a sigh of disbelief). ;)
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Glad you survived OK, Gandalf!
Heading to countries where you don't speak the language & you have an atypical diet is always fun...
((@ Greenbank) which is one of the reasons I've never been to Serbia!)
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A friend of mine got married in France and really struggled to make the chateau understand that some of the guests did not want any flesh in their meal and that she would not accept a non-veggie meal for them - they were saying "this is our menu, take it or leave it, bof". In the end they did the most delicious huge plate of a variety of different mushrooms. I still dream about it sometimes.
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Je suis végétalien
Je suis végétarien strict
both mean "I'm a vegan."
Whether the person you're talking to will understand what veganism is, I can't tell you.
Je ne mange ni la viande, ni du lait, ni le fromage, ni les oeufs
might suit better.
Might not really work unless you are in a large town!! ;D
Vegetarianism to most places which enjoy food and have a tradition of "the table" are a real challenge IME. Look at the latin countries in Europe as an example. Furthermore in many latin countries, with a Spanish/Portuguese connection in particular, meat = beef, and chicken and other hams may end up in one's plate if you say you do not eat "meat".
For what it's worth my grand mother, a great cook, used to say that vegetarians do not enjoy food (it might be better translated as cannot as it was said with such a surprise in her voice and ended with a sigh of disbelief). ;)
A chap at work, who is of Maltese extraction, often says to me 'don't you like food?'.
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Two Austrian incidents for a veggie friend.
In the first, despite specifying vegetarian food, she was served liver. Which is OK as it isn't meat....
In the second, I had a lovely venison and wild mushroom ragout, with a nice blood-thickened gravy. Her suggested meal was the same, with the bigger bits of meat scooped out.
Spatzl is the answer. Unless you are vegan.....