Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => GPS => Topic started by: Wild Rover on 24 May, 2012, 09:14:52 am
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I have had a Bryton Rider 50 for a while now. It's a brilliant little unit and exsceptional value for money. From what I've read, it suffers from far fewer glitches than most Garmin products seem to.
One of the features of the Bryton I like best is that, for an Audax for example, if the organiser provides a ready-made .gpx route (as most do of course) then it's simply a matter of uploading the .gpx track to the Brytonsport website, plugging in the device to the PC, downloading it to the device, then hey presto - all done and ready to follow on the day of the event, with beeps before turns, direction of turn clearly indicated on screen etc.
However I get the impression that it may not be so straightforward using Garmins (I'm especially interested in the eTrex 20) - or have I got the wrong impression? Can you put a .gpx track directly onto the eTrex unit from an organisers page and it will then work with turn-by-turn beeps and directions, like the Bryton does? Many thanks.
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I haven't seen a way to convert a track log into a navigable route using a Garmin. A track log will overlay on a map so you can see where you need to turn but that requires you to keep an eye on the GPS.
I gather recent versions of the firmware for the Garmin Montana allow the creation of a route within Basecamp that can be transferred directly to the Montana such that it will follow the same route (normally the GPS will determine its own route) which seems close but not quite the same.
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Thanks. It seems anazing that Garmin can't do what a relative newcomer to the bike GPS scene can.
Given the amount of faffing needed to put a route on to the Garmin, I cannot understand why the Bryton isn't more popular (although it may come to be) ; having said that, the battery life is only 15 hrs and the fixing bracket obscures the mini USB port, so carrying a mobile battery back-up is a non starter. I suppose at least with many Garmin models there's the AA battery advantage - especially with the newer eTrex models having such a good battery life - which is what has got me looking at the eTrex 20! Not sure whether the seeming hassle and complexity of putting a route onto the device will be worth it though. I'm definitely a 'plug and play' type!
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I can take a gpx and put it onto my Garmin Edge 305, piece of the proverbial. I don't need to load it to an intermediary mapping site (like mapmyride, ridewithgps, etc) either, though obviously I can if I want.
I use either GPSbabel or GPS Prune to do it. I prefer the latter.
I suspect my Edge is on it's way out. It's taking longer and longer to find satellites, that's how my first one went and then I got a refurb to replace it. This time around, I'll look at other options, including the Bryton. Though, I must admit, my initial impression of the Bryton is not good. I gather you're reliant on their web site to load/unload data, and I'd not be keen on that.
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If you take a GPX, I believe you can just convert it to a route using something like GPSBabel. No need to upload to a website.
What you are describing with you Bryton isn't really a function of the Bryton, it's a function of the website changing the file format.
x-post with Andrew.
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If you have a track log, you need to reduce the number of waypoints to 250 or less (or whatever the limitations are), this can be done on gpsies.com in their conversion tool, but it is not perfect - you will get lots more beeps probably, but it does work. You can use a gpx file as route, AFAIK you just need to change the descriptor (or let gpsies do it for you)
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I wouldn't assume any downloaded gpx file (from an Organiser or from any other source come to that) is going to 'just work'.
I would always take steps to vet it myself, before using it.
However the simple business of transferring a gpx into a Garmin is no more complicated than the procedure described in the OP. You get a lot of noise here about various difficulties (which are usually just ICBA to read the manual) because there's a big Garmin user base here, and fairly cycling-specific, so it's a great place to come to sort these things out.
You have a question to ask about a Bryton, and it might take days before anyone replies ...
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Though, I must admit, my initial impression of the Bryton is not good. I gather you're reliant on their web site to load/unload data, and I'd not be keen on that.
Thanks everyone - that's put my mind at rest a little. I've sourced an eTrex 20 via a company called Handtec for a competitive price - anyone had any dealings with them?
Andrew - a bit like Frankie says about Garmins - you get a lot of cr@p written about Bryton that's mainly due to people not following the manual. The website is very easy to use - quite intuitive - and it's useful having all your backup info. there in case of failure or loss of unit etc.
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Very positive experience of Handtec on several occasions, as I think others have.
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One of the features of the Bryton I like best is that, for an Audax for example, if the organiser provides a ready-made .gpx route (as most do of course) then it's simply a matter of uploading the .gpx track to the Brytonsport website, plugging in the device to the PC, downloading it to the device, then hey presto - all done and ready to follow on the day of the event, with beeps before turns, direction of turn clearly indicated on screen etc.
Are you saying that in order to upload routes to a Bryton GPS you require access to their website (and therefore an internet connection)?
This seems deeply suboptimal, as it's liable to be problematic in the field (say, if you're touring with with a netbook and Memory Map or similar), and relies on them continuing to provide a service indefinitely.
For all their faults, you can plot and upload a route to a Garmin using nothing more than Mapsource or Memory Map or whatever.
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Thanks. It seems anazing that Garmin can't do what a relative newcomer to the bike GPS scene can.
After reading your first two posts in this thread, I had to check your profile, half expecting to find you were a newly registered member based in [wherever Bryton are based]...
Please forgive my cynicism. :)
d.
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Thanks. It seems anazing that Garmin can't do what a relative newcomer to the bike GPS scene can.
After reading your first two posts in this thread, I had to check your profile, half expecting to find you were a newly registered member based in [wherever Bryton are based]...
Please forgive my cynicism. :)
d.
Oh, noooooo...I by no means think the Bryton is perfect. (For example, see comment re: battery life above). I think it's probably because it's the first GPS I've ever had (it was a gift), and being a bit of a technophobe I found it remarkably easy to set up (much to my great surprise). Allied with the fact that my riding friends always seemd to be moaning about their Garmin devices, I just assumed I'd struck lucky as I had no similar problems!
Perhaps being naive abou these things led to low expectations, but it does mostly what I want.
I agree the need for internet access would be a pain if I did extensive out-in-the-wilds touring or similar, but it's not really a huge problem for what I use it for. Except for that damned battery life...oh, and the screen got chipped easily.. and the tiny amount of accessories/online support compared with other brands...and..oh, s*d it, eTrex 20 here I come :)
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Allied with the fact that my riding friends always seemd to be moaning about their Garmin devices, I just assumed I'd struck lucky as I had no similar problems!
I think, as you mentioned upthread, a lot of the kind of problems you're talking about are down to users not reading the instructions properly, whether they own a Bryton or a Garmin.
But then if one were the kind of audaxer who could follow instructions properly, one wouldn't need a GPS unit. ;)
d.
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My Garmin works OK with "off road" and lots of waypoints - follow the little line on the map. It works less well on autorouting mode, because the map data is full of errors and includes bogus no-through-roads; disappointing considering what they charge for an SD card.
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I know typecasting is frowned upon, but I have a theory that most cyclists are dissidents, or nonconformists. Individualist, thinking out of the box, call it what you like. This inevitably means that when a cyclist gets to the point of "time to buy my 1st GPS" there's a tendency to look at Bryton, Satmap, Memory Map - bloody anything as long as its not a bloody Garmin.
It's the old lifestyle choice, do you run with the (Garmin) herd nice and secure and decisions made for you - or are you a (Bryton) lone wolf, with a ragged ear and a bit of a limp.
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To true ff. I reckon we're also (typecasting mode on) belligerent, headstrong beasts too. Damned if we'll admit defeat or even fault. So having made a poor decision, we stick with it come what may. Ragged ear lone wolves we may be, but fiercely proud of it too.
I don't want to start a debate as this is my own opinion BUT.... my Edge really isn't the ideal GPS device for 300km+ brevets because of the battery. Do I get something that takes standard, replaceable batteries? No, I pffaf around with external packs and rechargers rather than admit defeat!
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Ragged ear lone wolves we may be, but fiercely proud of it too.
Sometimes I'm starting to feel like the wildebeest that's dropping off the back ...
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Sometimes I'm starting to feel like the wildebeest that's dropping off the back ...
In my head I have a weird amalgam of David Attenborough and Sean Kelly providing a commentary to this.
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But then if one were the kind of audaxer who could follow instructions properly, one wouldn't need a GPS unit. ;)
Absolutely true. But as we know, and to paraphrase George Orwell 'Some instructions are more equal than others' ;)
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I know typecasting is frowned upon, but I have a theory that most cyclists are dissidents, or nonconformists. Individualist, thinking out of the box, call it what you like. This inevitably means that when a cyclist gets to the point of "time to buy my 1st GPS" there's a tendency to look at Bryton, Satmap, Memory Map - bloody anything as long as its not a bloody Garmin.
It's the old lifestyle choice, do you run with the (Garmin) herd nice and secure and decisions made for you - or are you a (Bryton) lone wolf, with a ragged ear and a bit of a limp.
I got my Bryton as a gift, so didn't have a lot of choice in the matter. Funny you should mention the ragged ear and the limp though....must make an appointment with the GP...
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The problem when it comes to GPS units is that we all have different technical skills, expectations & requirements, so one man's 'this is great' is another's, 'this is junk'.
I bought my first GPS just as color mapping gps units were becoming mainstream/cost justifiable (to me), and bought a Vista Cx with Mapsource/Metroguide Europe (with a patch to enable GPS autorouting). Five years later I'm still using a Vista Cx and Mapsource/Metroguide. Are there better mapping solutions & GPS units available now? Probably. Is it worth my while upgrading? Nowhere near.
In fact I had a Garmin Edge705 for a while and sold it on. The Edge705 itself was technically advanced but the Vista met my requirements much better. YMMV.
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I have an Edge 800 and have not had any problems at all.
I either use something like BikeHike, GPSies or similar and then the "send to device" option
Either that or just drag and drop - neither has ever failed me if the data is correct.
The only snag is that there are different GPX formats that can contain different data. If it doesn't work on "drag and drop" then this is usually the issue and loading up to the online systems (or BaseMap) then using "send to device" invariably solves this.
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But then if one were the kind of audaxer who could follow instructions properly, one wouldn't need a GPS unit. ;)
d.
Heh, you gotta follow instructions to convert a route sheet into a GPS track to upload it in the first place.
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Are you saying that in order to upload routes to a Bryton GPS you require access to their website (and therefore an internet connection)?
This seems deeply suboptimal, as it's liable to be problematic in the field (say, if you're touring with with a netbook and Memory Map or similar), and relies on them continuing to provide a service indefinitely.
For all their faults, you can plot and upload a route to a Garmin using nothing more than Mapsource or Memory Map or whatever.
Ditto for a Satmap. Create a route any old how on a computer, stick the Satmap software on it, plug your unit into it (USB lead), copy the route across. Proprietary format in the GPS, but the software converts (always error free, in my experience) as it copies.
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Actually, half the problem is also our collective unwillingness to read manuals. I've recently discovered that one of the OP issues - converting a track into a route - is part of the functionality of Gamin Basecamp, which it does without murmur.
One thing I intend to do at some indeterminate point is write a useable basic howto for my Oregon as I often end up forgetting stuff in between times I use it, and post it up to the Oregon Wiki
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Actually, half the problem is also our collective unwillingness to read manuals.
Whaaat? I'm a BLOKE! I don't need to read no steenkin' instructions!
d.
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I download and read manuals of kit I'm never gonna buy. It's a kind of window-shopping.
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You're saying: "ready to follow on the day of the event, with beeps before turns, direction of turn clearly indicated on screen etc."
I'm struggling to find the proper GPX file to give me this turn by turn navigation. Any idea which type of GPX file is needed to make the Bryton to beep at me before turns?
I just bought it, glanced through the manual, tried several tracks with the help of Google maps and http://www.elsewhere.org/journal/gmaptogpx/ and http://www.gpsies.com, but sadly enough I didn't succeed.
I would be very greatful for the golden tip!
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You need to make a .gpx that has waypoints placed just after each turn, and use "follow road" mode. This doesn't always work because of errors in the built-in maps. Whatever you do, don't set the device to "bicycle" mode as it may try to use tracks that aren't suitable, and ensure you turn off "highways". If you're going into central London you need to leave "toll roads" on, or you'll never get there!
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You're saying: "ready to follow on the day of the event, with beeps before turns, direction of turn clearly indicated on screen etc."
I'm not an expert on the new generation Garmins as I use an Etrex and Mapsource but I believe you have to convert it to a .tcx file on Garmin Connect and send it to the device; it will then do the beepy thing at junctions
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Henkrek is asking about a Bryton. It will need another Bryton user to come along and offer sound advice, which might take a while as this thread has 'Garmin' in the title.
In the meantime, as a non-Bryton user, I would suggest that to get turn prompts and directions you need your GPX to be a Route file, and not a Track file. (Though even this isn't a hard and fast rule with the latest GPSs, which can take a Track and treat it like a Route - this what happens if you load a single Track GPX into an Edge, go into the Courses menu and press the 'Go' button.)
This is because in a Route file the points are (or should be) relatively far apart and the GPS has to do work (processing) to interpret how to get from one point to the next. Either directly, or by following the inbuilt map. The prompts are a by-product of this processing - in other words, they are generated by the GPS unit and not by the GPX file. In direct mode, it might be "SW to next point" sort of thing, in follow road mode it might be "Left on Church Lane" sort of thing.
A Track file doesn't require this sort of processing as the points are (or should be) much closer together and there are many more of them - older GPSs with limited processing power wouldn't be able to cope with 'routing' so many points - newer GPSs like the Edge800 do have that power, which is why the Track is steadily becoming more and more the de facto standard.
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A gpx file can hold, the following. They are all optional elements, so a gpx may contain 1,2 or all 3 data types at the same time.
Tracks, divided into track segments, each track segment containing a set of track points
Routes, defined by route points
Waypoints
The bryton saves a route as a track, divided into track segments, based on where you clicked on the map ,and the places you clicked on, on the online map become route points. To get the prompts you need the route points, and when you start a planned route, you need to say allow re routing. If the gpx was not generated on Bryton's site then you may not have the route points .
As for prmopts, pressing the I button you can bring up the prompts if you've done as above, but I've yet to see the ability to have the device auto prompt. It will however beep on route points, but will not bring up any text related to them.