Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Topic started by: CathH on 24 July, 2008, 03:24:41 pm
-
I'm in the market for a new rear light as both of my Cateyes seem to be developing problems at the same time. :( So much for building in redundancy.
Ideally I would like something that's the equivalent of my Enduro Maxx - is there such a beast with high output, small size and preferably internal batteries?
Thanks for any recommendations!
-
Smart Superflash is the best of the little LED lamps right now. Small and light, unlike the big CatEye depth-charge.
-
+1 for the smart superflast (http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/Product/0/smart_lam317r/smart12wattsuperflashledrearlight.html). I don't own one, but having seen them used on the Dun Run I was mighty impressed. Be careful with them, because the brightness may annoy anyone cycling behind you.
-
+2. They are very bright 8) and the batteries last for ages in flash mode.
Not a good idea to use it in flashing mode when there's people riding beind you, mind.
Edit: And only 8 quid (http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/Cycle/7/Smart_1~2_Watt_3_LED_Rear_Light/5360026001/) from Wiggle...
-
Wow, that's half price. I might stock up (though heavens knows what's due out next).
One caveat, the waterproofing is a bit weak. In a real drench (ie no mudguards and commuting, or Scotland) the light can be stuck in the "on" state until you pop it open. A wrap of electrical tape solves this.
-
My Superflash has a crack in the casing, so the waterproofing is extra rubbish now. Otherwise, they're great. Just bought a Blackburn Mars 2.0 which is lovely - it's even got amber LEDs pointing sideways, but the bracket is a bit crap and you need a small philips driver to change the batteries. V. bright though.
-
got five of the superflashes across the fleet. Only casualties so far have either been nicked or flung off the bike by bracket coming into contact with unattached flinging object.
-
I've got one of those blackburn lights too. It's got better flashing modes than the Smart light and is still pretty bright. Having screws on the blackburn light means that changing the batteries is a bit of a pain, but i guess it does mean it's nice 'n' waterproof. The bracket is a bit pants and my light is now cabled tie to my saddle bag to stop it from escaping.
-
Yep, I use mine on the loops on my saddlebag rather than trust the wobbly cheese-bracket.
-
Hmm, thanks for all that info chaps. I like the prices, but I hear what you're saying about lack of waterproofing and flimsy brackets.
I've looked at the picture of the Superflash and I'm not feeling the bling. Does it look better on the bike than it does on the site?
-
If you want bling I can only recommend Dinotte.
Bling the Superflash aint. ;)
-
If you want bling I can only recommend Dinotte.
...and only £135 (http://store.dinottelighting.com/shared/StoreFront/product_detail.asp?RowID=91&CS=dinotte&All=) probably plus VAT and PO handling fee, unless you're very lucky. And the battery isn't self contained, which is more than a bit annoying. The old one is very bright, so gods knows what the new one is like. :o
-
Hmm, thanks for all that info chaps. I like the prices, but I hear what you're saying about lack of waterproofing and flimsy brackets.
I've looked at the picture of the Superflash and I'm not feeling the bling. Does it look better on the bike than it does on the site?
It’s a light not a fashion icon! Its brighter than you possibly imagine! And actually, its quite nicely designed. I just bought 2 more on the special Wiggle price.
-
I have a small but growing collection of Superflashes. The only times when I have had leakage problems occurred during heavy rain with a light mounted on the seat stay.
Part of the problem is that the rubber seal is a little tricky to get just right when you snap the two halves together.
A couple of times I have noted the light to be filling with rain but it has still worked fine. I usually give the innards a squirt of WD40 when I change the batteries.
Look good enough on the bike at night when they are in use. Good job and unbeatable for £8. 2 rechargeable AAAs last ages. They are light and can be poped on the back of a saddle pack or hooked over an armband facing back - works well that does.
-
Oooh, I've just noticed something:
1/2 watt red LED + 2 Extreme LEDs matched in alternating flash=SUPERFLASH
Superflash for 360° + visibility up to 1 mile
How does the 360° visibility work? Does it have a clear back?
Would you say they're brighter than a Cateye TL-LD1100?
Thanks for these opinions.
-
Well I'd say 360 exaggerates things by a factor of 2.
Certainly they are usefully bright from side-on.
Personally I think they are better than the Cateye. A more intense retina-searing light. Plus the Cateyes always seem to be used in disco mode which is crap. And the Cateye is far bigger and heavier.
-
Any mode which switches between LEDs spaced so closely together that you can't distinguish between them over a moderate distance (eg when a car first sees you) is pointless, the average light level will just be that of a single LED.
For something like an LD1100 the only sensible modes are All Flashing (in sync) or All On.
-
I have a small but growing collection of Superflashes. The only times when I have had leakage problems occurred during heavy rain with a light mounted on the seat stay.
Is that the light that you were using when we did the Surrey hills? I was impressed but forgot to ask at the time
-
Yes. Can't beat it for £8. One of the few non-Dinottes that is useful for dark lanes in the day time.
-
How does the 360° visibility work? Does it have a clear back?
Would you say they're brighter than a Cateye TL-LD1100?
It does have a clear back but the 360 is a bit spurious. Here's mine fighting against the camera flash: Andy and Hannibal on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/andygates/2686492819/) - you can see the side visibility.
Brighter than the depth-charge? I think so. The depth-charge dissapoints me - much of its light seems to be pointing in funny directions, and the unit is heavy and on feeble bracket - I've watched them bounce around and seen one take flight. The Smart is light enough to be forgettable. And really, we only need "steady" and "blink" - other modes are bling. If you want two modes at once, get two lamps and you've got one steady, one blinky, and redundancy.
-
Yes. Can't beat it for £8. One of the few non-Dinottes that is useful for dark lanes in the day time.
That's one less on Wiggle's shelves then :)
-
Make that two less on their shelves.
-
-4 on shelves now :-[
-
Cheers all. I'm going to get a Superflash and see how I get on. In the meantime, I've emailed Exposure asking when they're going to be making a rear light. I thoroughly expect them to answer with an instruction to fit a red gel to one of their normal ones....! :P
-
Cheers all. I'm going to get a Superflash and see how I get on. In the meantime, I've emailed Exposure asking when they're going to be making a rear light. I thoroughly expect them to answer with an instruction to fit a red gel to one of their normal ones....! :P
That would be possible, but it would be more efficient to replace the white LED with a red LED, rather than removing the unneeded portion of the spectrum with a filter. A joystick with a red LED would certainly be an interesting idea though!
-
A joystick with a red LED would certainly be an interesting idea though!
Wouldn't it though? *wistful sigh* This is what I mean by the bling factor.
-
I doubt you'll be disappointed with the Superflash.
I don't own one but ride with several who do - and recently had to ask one of them ;) to extinguish the one which was mounted on a seat stay, and burning my retinas.
I've a couple of Cat eye TLD 600's which I prefer aesthetically, and a Dinotte - which unless mounted carefully, can be a thoroughly anti-social light for group night riding - but unbeatable on spring / autumnal rides when dusk falls - clearly visible more than a mile away, blah, blah.
In terms of value for money the Superflash surpasses all of the above IMHO
-
-4 on shelves now :-[
I just bought two for my spares box. :thumbsup:
-
I just bought two for my spares box.
And me.
-
If I wasn't so strapped i would buy a couple more.
People are astonished at how bright the Superflashes are and often ask about them, expecting me to say they are expensive.
One of the co-op members in a bicycle co-operative was so impressed when i showed him one that he tried to get them stocked in the shop.
-
I have two, based again on audax experience. They are about as bright as you could possibly need. Cars can see you from miles off. There's no need for a brighter light.
I tend to angle mine down from horizontal so that it does not blind following cyclists.
-
I have a small but growing collection of Superflashes ... Good job and unbeatable for £8. 2 rechargeable AAAs last ages.
I got one of the £8 ones. Running it around London a couple of times and about 5 hours on solid one night and the batteries are dead - there was hardly any light coming out of it rather than slightly dim. I would expect the batteries to last longer than that. Does running the light on solid eat batteries? Or maybe the batteries were just crap?
-
I have a small but growing collection of Superflashes ... Good job and unbeatable for £8. 2 rechargeable AAAs last ages.
I got one of the £8 ones. Running it around London a couple of times and about 5 hours on solid one night and the batteries are dead - there was hardly any light coming out of it rather than slightly dim. I would expect the batteries to last longer than that. Does running the light on solid eat batteries? Or maybe the batteries were just crap?
What batteries are you using? The ones that were supplied seemed to be an odd brand that I wouldn't expect to have a long life
-
From experience I have found that most lights are supplied with either Panasonic or "Black Cat" batteries, i.e. the sort you can buy by the dozen at the local poundland. I always ditch them in favour of Duracell or Every Ready and only tend to change batteries every 18 months - 2 years (admittedly low volume of dark/misty rides, but enough to leave the lights in situ permanently)
-
I was using the batteries that were supplied with the light. I didn't recongnise the brand, which is why I pondered if it was a battery issue rather than the light being dodgey. However, if there is something wrong with the light then I'd like to complain to Mr Wiggle sooner rather than later. I'll be doing the FNRttC in ten days, so I can see how it holds up on that trip.
-
There is nowt wrong with the light!
Yes it uses lots more juice when in continuous mode. I'd say I'd get (guessing) the equivalent of 2 all night rides plus some time in flash mode, on solid, out of a set of decent rechargeables.
-
It's not so much the brand of battery that's important, but the type.
If batteries are marked "zinc-carbon", or if the chemistry isn't described at all, don't bother using them at all. They are vastly inferior to alkaline batteries in every way except for price and weight. "High Power", "Extra Power" or "Super Mega Duper Power" means nothing.
Lithium batteries are even better, though they cost even more.
Rechargeable AA and AAA batteries can be used as well. Ordinary high-capacity 1.2V NiMH cells work well with the various LED lights I've used, and don't need topping-up too often.
For a rear light, I'm happy with a Cateye TL610. I would only want something brighter if I rode a lot in the fog or more on dual-carriageways at night.
-
What is the beam like on the superflash? I am looking for something I can direct at the rhs hedgerow 45 degrees behind the bike on country lanes. The intention is to give following drivers around a bend advance warning of a cyclist. Especially on left hand bends.
I'm hoping that a red flashing hedgerow will create a "wtf" effect.
-
Cheers for the replies. I'll bung some decent alkaline batteries into the light and hopefully that will sort it out.
-
I am looking for something I can direct at the rhs hedgerow 45 degrees behind the bike on country lanes.
The only thing that will do that is the Dinotte. However, angling it that way could cause more problems than it solves, as the driver will drive around the bend and be dazzled by your light which is now shining at him rather than the hedge.
A Dinotte angled well down would do your job though.
-
The Smart isn't bad, but the Dinotte is the kind of bonkers beam-o-deth you're after. Though I have to ask why you think you need it...
-
I've had no answer from Exposure on the question of a rear light - oddly they did not even acknowledge my email. :-\ I think I'll stick with the two Cateyes on the back and the Enduro Maxx on the front. My Recyko rechargables seem to be holding up well powering the Cateyes and the GPS.
I still lust after a Dinotte, though.....
-
The Smart isn't bad, but the Dinotte is the kind of bonkers beam-o-deth you're after. Though I have to ask why you think you need it...
I probably don't in reality. In my own paranoia filled mind however....
I have once heard the pant browning sound of skidding wheels from behind when a landrover came round a LH bend, and locked up when he saw me. He recovered and passed OK, but it made me wonder if there was any way of giving a driver advance warning of a cyclist round the corner.
Also wondered about a laser pointer device as well - but the spot would probably be too small to notice.
-
I think a driver's headlights would wash out any red glow.
-
The Smart isn't bad, but the Dinotte is the kind of bonkers beam-o-deth you're after. Though I have to ask why you think you need it...
I probably don't in reality. In my own paranoia filled mind however....
I have once heard the pant browning sound of skidding wheels from behind when a landrover came round a LH bend, and locked up when he saw me. He recovered and passed OK, but it made me wonder if there was any way of giving a driver advance warning of a cyclist round the corner.
Also wondered about a laser pointer device as well - but the spot would probably be too small to notice.
My thought too - an upward pointing laser that would be visible from around the bend (and perhaps around the block!). Now that would be one mother of a battery pack!
-
-4 on shelves now :-[
parkers are currently doing this for £8.50 (don't forget to get the free postage). For that money it's imo the best rear light available. I've got 4 now to save swapping between bikes and just to act as spares altho' the light does seem robust
-
The new Blackburn Mars 4.0 (available on fleaBay) has a 1W rear LED 8) and tool-free battery installation.
I imagine 1W of red LED is pretty bright, seeing as red ones are the most efficient and easiest to make.
-
It's got to be a Dinotte 400. Although with the current crap exchange rate and getting caught by customs, mine came in at about £136 :-[
It is ridiculously bright and comes with 6 mounts. I'm thinking of putting it on backwards so it lights up my back ;)
-
I see there is a new version of the Smart 0.5 W out:
http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/ebwPNLqrymode.a4p?f_ProductID=9818&f_SortOrderID=1 (http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/ebwPNLqrymode.a4p?f_ProductID=9818&f_SortOrderID=1)
-
There is nothing quite as bright as Scotchlite reflective panels, at night, in car headlights.
Forget any Red LEDs, they are insignificant and get washed out by car headlights at any significant distance.
Scotchlite (the more, the better) can be seen for, literally, miles in car headlights.
I bought a Cateye TL LD 600 based me being blinded by one on a ride once.
It's a superb light for being seen in total darkness but (and I'm a car driver) Scotchlite shows up miles before any bike LED does when car headlights are involved.
If your objective is to be seen by car drivers at night then buy a Cateye 600 (it doesn't really matter) but wear as much Scotchlite as you can.
-
A bright rear red light identifies you as a vehicle and makes you more visible at times when Scotchlite would not be effective - at dawn and dusk, in fog or daytime rain, on bightly lit urban streets, etc.
That said, personally, I don't feel the need for an extremely bright or big rear light except for dual carriageways and fog.
-
It's got to be a Dinotte 400. Although with the current crap exchange rate and getting caught by customs, mine came in at about £136 :-[
It is ridiculously bright and comes with 6 mounts. I'm thinking of putting it on backwards so it lights up my back ;)
You don't ride in a group then? Ultrabright rear lights are very much frowned upon as they really annoy the following riders.
Any normal light will do fine - pick them for durability and you should do OK.
I supplement mine with some little button sized twinklies.
..d
-
A joystick with a red LED would certainly be an interesting idea though!
Wouldn't it though? *wistful sigh* This is what I mean by the bling factor.
A very late refresh of this thread, because I noticed that Exposure now do rear LED lights.
However, they are not what I would like. They do two models, the RedEye (http://www.exposurelights.com/products/redeye/index.php) and the RedEye Micro (http://www.exposurelights.com/products/redeye_redeye_micro/index.php). They are both designed to plug into their current generation of front lights (Maxx 2 family), and vamp their power from them. The RedEye has a cable to plug it into any front lights, and the RedEye Micro is designed to plug directly into, for example, a Joystick on a helmet. It doesn't have a cable, so the light has to be positioned so that the front and back lights can both be usefully seen, so a helmet mounting is probably one of the few sensible locations for it.
It's a shame they haven't produced a completely stand alone version. I particularly dislike having to run a cable from a handlebar lights to a seatpost lights, since if you firmly attach it to the tubes, you can often foul brake cable runs (and it looks like the cable is attached permanently to the rear light, so even more problems if you want to remove the light for security).
-
That is a bit of a shame really. Why not just make a Joystick Maxx with a red lens rather than a clear / white one?
Light, easy to mount, easy to charge. They would sell well I reckon.
-
I've wondered about the feasibility of fitting one of the optional red lenses to a Fenix P2D/P3D. I havent heard of anyone doing it though. It's also less than obvious how you would fit it.
-
One of the advantages of using eg a cateye light is that the lens also acts as a reflector (allegedly).
I'd disagree with Lee about scotchlite - There is a range in which it is better, and a range in which a good rear light will be better (easy maths to do). Also you can't guarantee that you will be in the beams of headlights.
Any half decent LED light will show up over 1km away with fresh batts. 0.5W is excessive.
..d
-
Any normal light will do fine
I'd agree with that. A modern standard LED is perfectly visible to drivers at night. Dinottes are useful in fog etc, but I'd not want to ride behind one. Or drive behind one.
-
Dinottes can be set at half or 1/4 brightness. Useful for when full power isn't required. ;) Also they last longer then. Plus if you aim them downwards, like suggested, they will only catch the eyes of bent people. ;D
-
Dinottes are useful in fog etc, but I'd not want to ride behind one.
Which makes it the perfect audax light ;)
-
I think a bright rear LED is good for:
- riding in city conditions where there are lots of alternate light sources
- riding in poor visibility when it's not dark (i.e. really heavy rain, mist and fog, glare)
A single regular LED will stand out just fine to drivers hundreds of meters away if it's on it's own say on an unlit road with lower traffic volumes.
-
I've just Wiggled for two of the Smart lights.
There's so much road furniture round here that I'm being squeezed when I'm not seen in time in the dark, so I'll see if I can make some eyeballs bleed with these. :)
-
Fit 'em wide, not tall, and you'll buy some space. I think there's something in driverbrain that decides to give as much space as the gap -- a tall skinny thing gets less overtaking space.
-
I suspect that you are seen in time, but they squeeze you anyway. Ride well out from the side of the road, and you'll be seen easily enough even if you have no light, on normal roads.
As a cyclist, I don't like cyclists in front of me hurting my eyeballs with their excessively bright rear lights. My plea is: don't use them when you don't have to. Save them for dual carriageways and fog or heavy rain, and otherwise use a more reasonable light (or less intense mode if the light has one).
-
It's not about being seen, anything gets seen, stealth ninjas get seen (how else can people complain about them?). It's about appearing wide not thin, and letting the drivers' autobrain say "wide thing, needs a bit more space".
-
Biggsy, you're right - I've had a couple of unavoidable near-misses recently (traffic-light controlled single-lane thingies on a blind bend; I go on green, some tit has come through on bright red in the oncoming direction, particularly freaks me because a friend of mine was disabled and his pillion killed in exactly these circs a couple of years ago), which spooks me, and when I'm spooked I'm quicker to dive towards the gutter when someone revs at me or otherwise tries to intimidate, and therefore easily squeezed. Vicious cycle. I'm in full helmet-and-hi-viz and I'm still being freaked out by these buggers to the point where I'm more stressed by my commute than by my job!
I think knowing that I have a couple of really bright lights will bolster my confidence back up to where it should be and I'll be able to ride more confidently again. I wouldn't use them if I was riding in a group, but my commute is through an industrial estate where there are rarely any other cyclists.
I like the wide spacing idea, Andy. They're going on the seat stays.
-
I like the bar-end lights I've got, since as Andy says, they make you "look" wider. Unfortunately (i) they don't seem to be for sale anywhere any more and (ii) they have an annoying habit of turning off when you go over a bump. Unless the contact to the batteries is rock solid, the slight interruption to the power when you hit a pothole causes the device to flip into it's off mode.
One day when I'm bored, I may use the mountings to make a permanently wired up set of lights, with an inductively charged set of batteries inside the handlebars. In the mean time, I'll have to continue to bend the battery contacts back as much as possible every time I change the cells.
Edit: Actually, Activesports claim they will sell them (http://s233299868.e-shop.info/shop/article_lan219/NITEZONE-Redeye-LED-Barend-Lights-for-Road-Bikes.html), although whether they have any in stock is another question (a few others, who I've never heard of, are also selling them).
-
Poor person's answer to bar end lights: bar end reflectors. Actually they'll look at least as bright to the motorist (as long as they've got their headlights on).
Take ordinary chrome-look plastic bar plugs, file flat, apply 3M Diamond Grade reflective tape.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300269035994
ps. Fair enough to get brighter lights if they give you more confidence and piss off a few bad motorists without pissing off too many cyclists! 8)
-
Have just happened on this thread and am a bit shocked by the last few messages. Lights spaced side by side are very bad form, on a 2-wheeled vehicle.
Downright misleading.
Did you never hear of the little boy who cried 'wolf'?
-
What are you talking about, bad form, crying wolf, wtf?
We're not discussing lamps on stalks. We're discussing lamps at the edges of the vehicle width - where most other road users have 'em.
Centre-mounted lights on two-wheelers are just easy, and habit.
-
Lights spaced side by side are very bad form, on a 2-wheeled vehicle
As in the twin headlight motorbike thing, in which motons see two lights approach, assume they are fitted to something the width of a car, and thus misinterpret how far away the motorbike is?
-
One good light is enough (and most modern lights are good).
By all means carry a spare, but having both on at once is just unnecessary visual pollution and might possibly be misinterpreted.
-
I can't imagine anyone confusing a bike for a car because it has two lights side-by-side, even for a moment. The lights will be too close together.
-
....having both on at once is just unnecessary visual pollution and might possibly be misinterpreted.
As what? A 'come on' to fireflies? ;)
....m'lud will be aware that all cyclists are asking to be treated like this by fireflies. What do they expect going out like that?...
-
I can't imagine anyone confusing a bike for a car because it has two lights side-by-side
I'm merely speculating as to Frankly Frankie's thoughts. I think he does have a point. If indeed his point is what I think it is: that drivers tend, when conditions are poor or when time to make a decision is too short, to automatically see two approaching side-by-side lights as being car lights. And thus, if they are not car lights but are one's expensive LEDs 25 cm apart on the handlebars... then the distance apart is rather a lot smaller than expected when said driver pulls out of the side road.
The same reasoning applies to rears.
-
I am reminded of a Father Ted sketch:
small
far away
-
I've been running two Smart Superflashes. I have two mounted at a time and use one at a time. When the batteries die in one it saves faff time. I just switch the other one on and replace the dead batteries in the other when I stop.
They are very very good. Good reliability so far. Very bright. One on at a time is plenty bright enough. I use lithium batteries for a very good runtime and good light output throughout battery life. (Tescos sometimes sell packs of 4 for £3.97 which is almost half price)
I clip mine to my sadlebag/ seat pack and sellotape (several layers) mine so that they can't jump out and are more hassle to steal.
The Blackburn Mars 3 is brighter, but gives poor (comparitively, very poor and not worth the extra brightness) run time and is a pain to change the batteries. It involves 3 small screws. Bags of fun on a rainy night.
I don't use the flash mode. Especially not in a group. It's plenty bright enough to be seen by. It illuminates the road behind me.
It's looking to be one of the best rear lights I've ever had. And I've got through some lights in my time.
-
I am reminded of a Father Ted sketch:
small
far away
;D
You've understood me then.
-
It's looking to be one of the best rear lights I've ever had
Me too. I have 4 new ones in reserve - but my original two have never missed a beat.
Cheap too - I can cope with being careful with costly front lights when leaving the bike but ICNBA having to keep an eye on the rears as well.
-
I can't imagine anyone confusing a bike for a car because it has two lights side-by-side
I'm merely speculating as to Frankly Frankie's thoughts. I think he does have a point. If indeed his point is what I think it is: that drivers tend, when conditions are poor or when time to make a decision is too short, to automatically see two approaching side-by-side lights as being car lights. And thus, if they are not car lights but are one's expensive LEDs 25 cm apart on the handlebars... then the distance apart is rather a lot smaller than expected when said driver pulls out of the side road.
The same reasoning applies to rears.
But in practice, it doesn't seem to work that way. Instead, they just treat you as a wide thing, and their autopilot gives wide things more space than skinny things (the general Theory of Big). The condition you expand upon, Sarge -- I've never seen that in the wild. I've seen the reverse, where drivers react to you very early, a lot. I present only observations. Wide works.
(and just as an aside, frankie, please don't tell people what they're doing is wrong unless it's illegal :thumbsup:)
-
If you're far away then the two lights will appear virtually as one because they are so close together. And if you're near, you will qute clearly see that it is a bike.
Of all the things that bother me on a bike, the possibility of being confused for a car is pretty near the bottom of the list!
I have the DIY bar-end reflectors mentioned above, and they look brilliant when lit up. It makes sense to use whatever width you have rather than just a single vertical line in the middle. It is not an attempt to decieve anyone about the width of my vehicle, it's showing the width rather than making the bike appear to be even narrower than it is.
-
I'm just exploring why two lights side-by-side might be "bad form".
I can't say I worry about it either - but I acknowledge that in certain circumstances the above confusion as to distance could arise.
-
I see what you mean, SP & Frankie, that a pair of bar end lights nearby could in theory be confused for a car in the distance, but I question whether that does really ever happen, and whether the benefits of making yourself more visible in general outweighs it even if it does happen occasionally.
-
Was the possibility of this confusion not an issue at one time for motorbikes with twin headlights? I seem to recall that it was - but on the other hand there are loads of twin headlight motorbikes about so perhaps I was mistaken.
Of course, in the case of side by side front lights on a bike, the distance mis-interpretion is counteracted by the likelihood that the bike will be not only closer but also going more slowly.
For side-by-side rears it might be more of an issue as the mis-interpretation is compounded by the low speed of the cyclist.
I see what you mean, SP & Frankie
;D
I hereby accept my honorary and completely unwanted membership of the Two Lights are Evil League.
I question whether that does really ever happen
Dunno.
He says, eyeing his very much side-by-side Dinotte 600 and Hope 1.
-
My Exposure Race Maxx has two side by side LEDs in it, but confusing the 2cm or so separation of that with the 1.5m separation of a pair of car headlights would take some effort.
Similarly, my bar end lights are normally in a flashing mode (to keep the battery life sane), and are used in conjunction with lights on my carrier / seat pin, so it would take a lot to confuse three lights (some flashing) with the rear of another vehicle.
There is some possibility of confusion caused by light dimensions, but the only time I've ever experienced it, was with a relatively old mini. Since it's headlights had a relatively narrow spacing, and were dimmer than most modern cars, for a brief period I thought that it was further away than expected, however once it did start to approach me, I realised what it was due to other visual cues and the variation in the speed of change of the original visual identification items. This also only really occurred since the spacing and brightness were close, but not quite what I expected, not the vastly different variations that we are talking about.
Recognising a vehicle, and it's position and speed is a complex matter, you don't do it based on lamp spacing alone, even when quickly glancing at the road. Light intensity, and position compared to other cues will also be important. Most of us are rarely on a totally dark road, and utterly isolated compared to other light sources. One of the few places that this can regularly occur is on a motorway, where the lack of road lighting, and clear view over substantial distances, can often mean you see other vehicles purely based on their rear lights. This isn't likely to be an issue with pedal cycles!
I think that for cyclists this is a non-issue. I've never looked, seen a bike with two adjacent bright rear LEDs and thought that it was a car several miles away. :-\
-
In summary: Too much thinking being done here. Look like the Death Star and people avoid you. Job done.
-
Absolutely.
At the very least, buy a battery charger and some good NiMh cells and change 'em every single week. There aren't many LED rear lights that can't be improved by about 1000% with some lovely oomphy battery goodness.
-
motorbikes can have twin headlamps but (depending on various years of manufacture) may only be allowed to have 1 in use at a time.
Shame really, when I got my first twin light motorbike I soon discovered that they worked independantly - if 1 bulb blew then I still had another light. Took away the fear of the sickening blackhole part way round a bend at night.
-
Just out of interest, has anyone bought a BLT Fantom XR9 Rear Light (http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/Cycle/7/BLT_Fantom_XR9_Rear_Light/5360032556/)?
-
As a cyclist, I don't like cyclists in front of me hurting my eyeballs with their excessively bright rear lights. My plea is: don't use them when you don't have to. Save them for dual carriageways and fog or heavy rain, and otherwise use a more reasonable light (or less intense mode if the light has one).
I don't think super-bright rears cause a problem - lights angled SLIGHTLY up do. A very common example is the long-thin LD600, which if mounted to a seat-stay bracket always seem to point upwards by about 10'. I reckon this aims over the roof of most following cars, and straight into the eyes of other riders (and possibly HGV drivers!). Very annoying, and not helping the owner much.
(SUPER bright rears like that big Dinotte seem to work best angled downwards).
-
Just out of interest, has anyone bought a BLT Fantom XR9 Rear Light (http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/Cycle/7/BLT_Fantom_XR9_Rear_Light/5360032556/)?
Charlotte, I've started November with a resolution to avoid unnecessary bike-related expenditure. You have now set me the challenge of working out why this 1W light cannot be classed as unnecessary.
-
The viewing angle of super-bright LEDs is great enough for them to hurt my eyes from a few yards back on a bike even when the light is horizontal (angled neither up nor down).
LD600 I can tolerate, but LD610 is in the eyeball hurting category (though it is still not as bright as some of the lights recommended on this forum). I have one myself actually, but mostly use the single-LED phasing mode.
Angling a rear light down won't help if you want to be seen from a long way back by car drivers and truckers. I reckon 0° is the best compromise.
-
Just out of interest, has anyone bought a BLT Fantom XR9 Rear Light (http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/Cycle/7/BLT_Fantom_XR9_Rear_Light/5360032556/)?
I have now..... :thumbsup:
I do wish people would stop pointing out shiny things to me. We've had to get new shelves in the sitting room - just for my bike bits.... :-[
-
I hope you're going to write a review when you get it?
:)
-
(and just as an aside, frankie, please don't tell people what they're doing is wrong unless it's illegal :thumbsup:)
Sorry to be late coming back.
Wrong and illegal are two different things in my mind - that's why we have two different words and I use each as appropriate. If anyone can't tell the difference they need to get literate.
Anyway - to me its about the message you give.
1 light = 2-wheeled vehicle.
2 lights side by side = something wider than a 2-wheeled vehicle - which a cyclist is not.
Is it wrong to describe a deliberate act of deception on the public highway as 'wrong'?
And the message I receive from someone 'looking like the Death Star' doesn't bear repeating in polite company.
HTH
-
(and just as an aside, frankie, please don't tell people what they're doing is wrong unless it's illegal :thumbsup:)
Sorry to be late coming back.
Wrong and illegal are two different things in my mind - that's why we have two different words and I use each as appropriate. If anyone can't tell the difference they need to get literate.
Anyway - to me its about the message you give.
1 light = 2-wheeled vehicle.
2 lights side by side = something wider than a 2-wheeled vehicle - which a cyclist is not.
Is it wrong to describe a deliberate act of deception on the public highway as 'wrong'?
And the message I receive from someone 'looking like the Death Star' doesn't bear repeating in polite company.
HTH
Frankly frankie, the assertion that you make about a "deliberate act of deception" says more about your thinking than anything else.
Might I politely suggest moderating your phraseology, otherwise some might be lead to think you're a bit of a twonk!
-
Bog standard cateye for me but what I did add recently was one of the sigma back ups which I point to the right with the button facing back, I have been getting more room from the drivers since I changed that one small feature of my lighting arangement, visable from the rear but giving full visability of the blinky light from 90 degrees as well.
It seems more visable that way, plus I find that my thighs tend to rub against back ups when mounted as they should be in the advertising blurb.
Like the others said - as long as you arent shining frikin lazers into drivers eyes and blinding them so that they crash, then almost anything goes on the lighting front.
Just be prepared for the "UFO" sightings in the local paper
-
That BLT looks fun. Pity I've got all the lights I need! ::-)
Frankie, when one light means you don't get given enough space, more isn't deception, it's just sensible. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
-
That BLT looks fun. Pity I've got all the lights I need! ::-)
Frankie, when one light means you don't get given enough space, more isn't deception, it's just sensible. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
£27 almost though :o
I am thinking of getting some red lens filter film from halfrauds to modify a 1w luxeon torch that I have though :demon:
-
I think the "Frankie dual-light Illusion" theory sounds pretty sound. BUT
I'm choosing to ignore it for rear lights. A couple of reasons:
- A childhood spent nervously checking those Never-Ready lights has left me paranoid about rear-light failure which I don't notice. Having two cheap lights massively reduces the chances of this.
- Rear lighting is different to front lighting. Even fast moving vehicles, from behind, normally have some time to gauge your position and movements. Being seen AT ALL seems like the important thing. Cars have excellent front lights, so before they actually run into you they have usually seen the back of your head clearly in their own light beam.
[i once rode straight into the gap between two MTB-ers with front megalights, thinking they were a car a mile away, so I can vouch for the distance perception problem.]
-
I think we're getting a bit worked up about it. You can either make sure that you've got a decent rear light and leave it at that, or worry about the one idiot in a car who needs a night-time sun to draw his attention to you.
Personally, I favour the former. I usually carry a backup, though - once, while I was blithely riding along in pitch darkness, a chap in a car pulled alongside to tell me that my rear light wasn't working :-[
He still saw me, though!
-
I doubt anyone here is trying to deceive anyone by having more than one rear light or reflector on their bicycle, but may I politely suggest that we don't have any name-calling on The Knowledge. Focus on the facts, fanx.
-
I ride with a 2.4 meter long plank of wood across the rear rack with a 1w LED rear light perched on each end
In the dark I look like a people carrier
Evil old me ::-)
-
You'll give Charlotte ideas for putting a lamp on each end of her bow ;)
-
Smoke and mirrors old chap
Smoke and mirrors...
-
Well, I've got both my lights but I'm sticking with one on the back (the other can go on my rack pack for audax / long rides, or on my messenger bag round town).
It is stonkingly good. :thumbsup:
Nobody could possibly claim that they've not seen that. It was raining on the way home tonight, so I also put my yellow rain-covers over my panniers. I don't know whether it was the glow-in-the-dark panniers making me seem wider, the searing burn of the light, or a sudden outbreak of good manners in Acton, but whatever it was, it did the trick. :thumbsup:
-
Frankly frankie, the assertion that you make about a "deliberate act of deception" says more about your thinking ... politely suggest moderating your phraseology, otherwise some might be lead to think you're a bit of a twonk!
Oh well - didn't realise this was the House of Commons
-
You'll give Charlotte ideas for putting a lamp on each end of her beau ;)
Does Liz know this?
-
I have found a new route, again ;D to work. It is still very rural. Some of my roads are narrower. I am sure that some oncoming cars have no idea what I am, other than a very bright light coming towards them. I suspect some may think I am a tractor as they pull into the verge until I arrive in front of them.
I am not trying to deceive anyone. I am just trying to see, be seen and be safe with the aim of getting self and bike home in one piece.
I am no twonk either.
-
I have three lights at the front and three at the rear.
Front:
Cateye EL-530, EL-135 & Knog
Rear:
2x Cateye LD-600 & Knog
-
I'm obviously not really trying, I've only generally got two on the front.
Front
Exposure Race Maxx
CatEye Snapshot Plus - but I managed to damage the mounting so...
CatEye EL500 - but it made a dash for freedom on Tuesday, and no longer works so...
Niteflux Photon 4 Commuter - not a very good beam pattern, and a pain in the butt mounting (Cold Spare)
Back
Dinotte Tail Light (the old "dim" one!)
CatEye TL-LD1100 (Hot Spare)
CatEye TL-LD1000 (Cold Spare)
I've also got some NiteZone RedEye bar end lights, but I don't really count those as rear lights, since they are relatively dim.
-
Finally rode at night behind someone with a Dinotte on. It was my lad (the return journey of today's interesting commute. I put it onto middle brightness, and pointed it down. Not too bright to ride behind, and an amazing pool of light (with a shadow where it shone on the wheel) behind.
We lit up the cycle track well too at the front - two Dinottes and a Fenix L2D. :thumbsup:
-
No. I confess. I rode yesterday with only one LC600 on my bag, after the other had a high-speed unscheduled dismount and was run over (though it still works and I have glued the lens back on :thumbsup: ).
-
Ordered a superflash.
I seem to have no luck with blinkies. Lost two recently, so I'm reduced to one cheapy Smart. Last night I had two cars blaring their horns at me and shouting that they couldn't see my rear light. :(