Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Topic started by: mrcharly-YHT on 12 July, 2012, 02:53:00 pm
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Need a set of 'be seen' lights for a college student.
Lights need to be lowish power consumption (so they don't suddenly run out of lecky) and preferably very secure. Can't depend on student remembering to remove them from bike.
Cheap is also important, as this bike will be abandoned in student bike racks.
Pls don't be recommending dynamo lights. Yes they'd be best solution but budget does not allow.
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For the rear, something that takes AAs and bolts to a rack or mudguard. A while ago it would have been the excellent Infini Apollo, but now those are unobtanium, so you'll probably have to pay 2-3 times as much for something similar from B&M or whoever. A decent set of Alkaline batteries should last forever.
Not sure about fronts. You may have to botch a permanent fitting, which then complicates battery changes.
You say the budget doesn't allow for dynamos, does that include bottle dynamos? We've got an Axa on barakta's trike and it runs a Cyo + 2 rears just fine (no problems slipping in mud/wet on a Marathon Plus dynamo track). The cheap Basta dynamo lights have a conical beam, but work surprisingly well in all other respects. These sorts of things are astoundingly cheap if you buy them from the right Dutch/German sellers...
And also on the unconventional dynamo theme, Reelights...
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I'll go out on a bit of limb here and say get a Alpkit headtorch.
It can't be beaten at £12.50 and can't be left on the bike :)
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Can be forgotten though, and isn't legal bike lighting.
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Can't be left on the 16-yr-old's head, either.
I'll check out the basta lights, thanks
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I should probably add that I was specifically referring to the LED Bastas. They appear to still be churning out plenty of Halogen stuff. Although for be-seen purposes, I suppose that might be sufficient...
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OK, i see the argument against the Alpkit, so for similar money, On-One have the Smart LED lights ina twin pack, thusly: http://on-one.co.uk/i/q/LISMRT25FR12RR/smart_lunar_25_lux_front_with_1_2_watt_rear_light_set
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nice one - will have a chat with the owner of the bike. White would contrast nicely with the black bike.
A bit nickable, but I might be able to molish a bracket below the basket, so not so obvious.
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Wilkinsons sometimes do a set of 0.5W flashers under the 'TORCH' brand name for £7-8 a set. THey are standard smart light kidney lights and run on AAAs, but decent output and cheap enough to get a few spare. You could always glue an ordinary light to the mount for a bit more security if you wanted to as well.
I have an LD500 screwed onto the rear of my pannier on one bike which may be an option, and a torch brand mudguard light on a different bike (it was £9.99, but I can't find the supplier at the moment. Google shows a couple places as £15) Again they both work on AAAs, but rear lights last a very long time on those batteries so I wouldn't worry as much about that.
[edit] those smart lights are good as well. I have a Lunar 35 on the front for audaxes
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Ziptie a Knog or similar random rubbery front light to the underside of a handlebar.
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OK, i see the argument against the Alpkit, so for similar money, On-One have the Smart LED lights ina twin pack, thusly: http://on-one.co.uk/i/q/LISMRT25FR12RR/smart_lunar_25_lux_front_with_1_2_watt_rear_light_set
Those would have been my recommendation if it weren't for the nickability factor. Can't really go wrong with them as basic battery lights.
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OK, i see the argument against the Alpkit, so for similar money, On-One have the Smart LED lights ina twin pack, thusly: http://on-one.co.uk/i/q/LISMRT25FR12RR/smart_lunar_25_lux_front_with_1_2_watt_rear_light_set
Those would have been my recommendation if it weren't for the nickability factor. Can't really go wrong with them as basic battery lights.
That's a procedure thing though really, isn't it, they have QR brackets so there is no real excuse for leaving them on the bike?
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OK, i see the argument against the Alpkit, so for similar money, On-One have the Smart LED lights ina twin pack, thusly: http://on-one.co.uk/i/q/LISMRT25FR12RR/smart_lunar_25_lux_front_with_1_2_watt_rear_light_set
Those would have been my recommendation if it weren't for the nickability factor. Can't really go wrong with them as basic battery lights.
That's a procedure thing though really, isn't it, they have QR brackets so there is no real excuse for leaving them on the bike?
absentmindedness?
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I've had lockable lights broken by thick bastards who thought they were removable. The student won't forget to remove the the lights as long as he/she doesn't do a lot of booze and weed. Or is there no such thing as a sober student? Ok, cable tie them on.
With low-budget LEDs, the power won't run out too suddenly with alkaline batteries (or even lithium or modern NiMH in my experience for sub 1-hour rides).
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The student won't forget to remove the the lights as long as he/she doesn't do a lot of booze and weed.
This person is likely to walk out of the house undressed without realising.
They have put hair-curling mesh things in their hair overnight, forgotten they were there and gone out into town.
There is absentmindedness and there is absentmindedness.
I ain't complaining. They are the only child I can rely on (in the household) to do clearing up when asked. They are the person whom during school holidays decides to do a few books of math problems because they felt their math was deficient in some areas.
(I've just realised that I've described the Scott Adams idea of an engineer)
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Either:
(1) A set of cheapo lights like this (http://www.dealextreme.com/p/bicycle-bike-safety-warning-5-led-headlamp-rear-tail-light-set-with-2-mount-56121), fitted with lithium batteries and with the lights superglued to the mounts (i.e. get them on and off with a screwdriver)
(2) A bunch of these (http://www.dealextreme.com/p/bicycle-bike-safety-warning-5-led-headlamp-rear-tail-light-set-with-2-mount-56121) and zip tie them on.
Either way - for the application you're considering, cheapo lights with good batteries trump good lights with crap batteries any day.
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I had one of those dealextreme front lights. It lasted 3 weeks before the switch corroded. Maybe it's Yorkshire weather that does it.
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If you only need 'be seen' lights why not go for ReeLights? Fix and forget, no batteries, no dynamos.
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...and preferably very secure. Can't depend on student remembering to remove them from bike.
"College" implies gaining an education. Having to replace lights that were left for the taking out of his/her own pocket could be a valuable lesson.
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Sounds like this "student" is better off walking and taking the bus.
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The Coop does a very reasonable 'be seen' battery powered light set for £3
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Decathlon are always worth a look. I see they have their "Knoggish" lights reduced, two for under a tenner. Not sure how long the batteries last but I was able to cycle in the dark for a few miles using the two-LED front one which was much brighter than my German dynamo light so plenty bright for be-seen purposes.
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My son is off to uni in October and I have gone down the USB chargeable lights route with him. It is very unlikely he would remember/afford to buy batteries himself so these are a good option to plug into his laptop to recharge. They have the elastic strap attachment that is very easy to remove, which he has so far always managed to do when parking the bike up at school. They have a special flash to warn you when they need recharging soon.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=46579
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either
1) http://www.reelight.com/Default.aspx?ID=48 Reelights. Yeah I know they are technically a sort of dynamo thing and you said you didn't want them but they tick the other boxes. They are 34 Euros so a bit on the expensive side
2) get wilkos finest, aldi, lidl about 4 sets and attach them with whatever security measures suit, ie superglued covers over recessed bolts
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Great info
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Need a set of 'be seen' lights for a college student.
Lights need to be lowish power consumption (so they don't suddenly run out of lecky) and preferably very secure. Can't depend on student remembering to remove them from bike.
Cheap is also important, as this bike will be abandoned in student bike racks.
Pls don't be recommending dynamo lights. Yes they'd be best solution but budget does not allow.
Cheap bottle dynamo light sets can be bought for less than a tenner. Better ones can be bought for <£40 These are halogen. You can get a drop-in LED for a halogen dynamo front light for a bit over a tenner, which is a lot brighter than the halogen light, or I can send you a couple of spare halogen bulbs (depending on the fit) for the price of postage.
You can currently buy a good LED dynamo headlight for £20 - http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B005VNOSWM/ref=asc_df_B005VNOSWM8725960?smid=AF1T2ZRGPMY29&tag=googlecouk06-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22218&creativeASIN=B005VNOSWM (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B005VNOSWM/ref=asc_df_B005VNOSWM8725960?smid=AF1T2ZRGPMY29&tag=googlecouk06-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22218&creativeASIN=B005VNOSWM) - can that be used with a bottle dynamo? Because if it can, she can have a pretty damn good front light which she can't forget for £notmuch.
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You can currently buy a good LED dynamo headlight for £20 - http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B005VNOSWM/ref=asc_df_B005VNOSWM8725960?smid=AF1T2ZRGPMY29&tag=googlecouk06-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22218&creativeASIN=B005VNOSWM (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B005VNOSWM/ref=asc_df_B005VNOSWM8725960?smid=AF1T2ZRGPMY29&tag=googlecouk06-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22218&creativeASIN=B005VNOSWM) - can that be used with a bottle dynamo? Because if it can, she can have a pretty damn good front light which she can't forget for £notmuch.
it is the same light that you can buy a battery version from dx for about £13. the light output and beam shape are really good, a bit less than, say, b&m ixon, but still plenty to see dry roads. and yes, dynamo version can run off any bike dynamo.
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...and preferably very secure. Can't depend on student remembering to remove them from bike.
"College" implies gaining an education. Having to replace lights that were left for the taking out of his/her own pocket could be a valuable lesson.
After a discussion of the options, she's asked if she can have removable lights, and " Can you fit them now, so I get into the habit of always taking them off."
She knows how absent-minded she is, so wants to train herself.
I'll probably order the planet x ones and nick the rear for myself. I've found a small reliable smart rear for her for now.
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I use a variety of Smarts front and rear and have always found them reliable (I do put silicone sealant around the rears to keep water out though - have heard that they can leak otherwise).
FWIW, my "always left on the bike in case I get caught out" lights are a rack-mounted (and cable-tied on) 1/2w rear and a fork-crown mounted lunar 35 front. I've not had any problems, though I'd probably remove the front one if leaving it for a prolonged period/in a dodgy place. These are augmented by a second set, mounted on seatpost and handlebar, when I'm actually commuting in the dark - those I do remove when leaving the bike, because they're quite obviously QR and thus easily stealable.
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What Charlotte said. Especially the bit about replacing the batteries.
FWIW, my Bombproof Commuter started out as a college bike and still bears the scars of several bottle dynamos clamped increasingly hard onto the stays, in a forlorn attempt to find a setup that could cope with winter conditions. Bottles are great until the moment in really foul visibility when you really need them, when they slip. Or the bearings go, melting either the bottle-wheel or the tyre.
This summer my rear lighting has included a permanently-mounted LD500, after a roadside bodge of a shim jammed the bracket. It's been of no interest to the bored youth of Lewisham. Hypocritically I've let the batteries run down. :-[
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FWIW, my "always left on the bike in case I get caught out" lights are a rack-mounted (and cable-tied on) 1/2w rear and a fork-crown mounted lunar 35 front.
That sounds like an interesting way of doing it - How have you mounted it on the fork crown? I could do with another mounting option for my Lunar 35 when touring so I could have a proper bar bag.
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FWIW, my "always left on the bike in case I get caught out" lights are a rack-mounted (and cable-tied on) 1/2w rear and a fork-crown mounted lunar 35 front.
That sounds like an interesting way of doing it - How have you mounted it on the fork crown? I could do with another mounting option for my Lunar 35 when touring so I could have a proper bar bag.
I use a B&M mount - think it's one of these (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/b-and-m-light-bracket-for-ixon-for-front-fork-short-version-prod28644/) (though I got mine from Rosebikes with some other stuff). Despite being for B&M lights, it does fit Smarts - though it is somewhat looser than Smart mounts. I padded mine out with electrical tape and have had no problems with it falling off. This is what it looks like, though I should really adjust the angle a bit (and yes, I do need to clean the bike :-[):
(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/9049/dsc00694gc.jpg)
I've not tried a bar bag with it though, as I've currently got butterfly handlebars so it doesn't fit anyway.
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I use a B&M mount - think it's one of these (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/b-and-m-light-bracket-for-ixon-for-front-fork-short-version-prod28644/) (though I got mine from Rosebikes with some other stuff). Despite being for B&M lights, it does fit Smarts - though it is somewhat looser than Smart mounts.
+many for this bracket. It's simple, sturdy and unlike the earlier plastic incarnation (and the various handlebar clamps) has no self-untapping Jesus screws.
Smart and B&M front light brackets are interchangeable - I have several of each. The looseness phantasmagoriana describes seems to be more of a manufacturing tolerance thing than a difference between manufacturers (indeed, I wouldn't be surprised to discover they're buying the handlebar brackets from the same Chinese molisher of plastic things), and a bit of tape solves it perfectly.
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I've ordered the lower-power version of the light Phil recommended. Better a 'be seen by' light that lasts a long time than a bit brighter one that runs flat in two weeks.
An absolute bargain at £9.99 including a smart 1/2watt.
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I've been using a Cateye Rapid 3 since last November. Terrific little light for £20; nicely built, really bright, a few different modes, really great battery life... (I've changed the batteries just once as I recall, and I have done many commuting miles and hours with it on)
Recommended highly. The one gripe I have is the stupid Cateye fixing for bags/panniers/whatever; it doesn't lock. I will get myself the rackmountable fixing at some point, but nevertheless it's a pretty basic oversight in my view. Light loops on bags (Super C racktop in this case) can be really handy...
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BTW, although in this case a dynamo light wasn't wanted, if anyone in the same (or any other) situation wants to use one, I have a Lumotec dynamo front light (sans dynamo) plus a selection of halogen bulbs, a couple of brackets, the back end of another Lumotec light (some bastard nicked the lens from a parked bike) & a couple of cables with the appropriate connectors - all for the cost of postage,
You can stick a drop-in LED in it, but not one as bright as a made-for-LED dynamo light.
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You can fairly easily modify a CatEye rear light rack mounting bracket, by cutting the "lever" off of it, so that it can't be easily removed. You can remove the light by pushing a small screwdriver into the mount, to release pressure in the same way that the lever does, but it's fiddly enough that it would probably dissuade the average scrote (who'd just move onto the next bike, with easily nickable rear light). You can still remove the batteries (generally) when fitted this way, so a git who just needed a fresher set of batteries could still steal those.
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NB lots of the suggested lamps are legal to use as extra lamps but will not satisfy the legal requirements by being "approved"-ish:
http://www.ctc.org.uk/cyclists-library/regulations/lighting-regulations (http://www.ctc.org.uk/cyclists-library/regulations/lighting-regulations)
Note that the CTC Head Office made their Technical Officer redundant: so while currently correct(May 2015) , this page may become out of date / disappear in future. But it does link to the actual current law statutes for double checking.
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Most cycle lights on the market don't count as approved (because of steady mode options with no appropriate BS/EC mark).
But has there ever been a UK court case where an illegality with a working cycle light has been judged as contributory negligence?
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But has there ever been a UK court case where an illegality with a working cycle light has been judged as contributory negligence?
The ex Technical Officer mentioned somewhere their had been cases where compensation was reduced for that reason. I have heard of one case in Northern Ireland.
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The CTC should put a link on that page to evidence that it's happened, if it has. It just says there that it "may" be regarded as contributory negligence.
I expect most of us on YACF are technically illegal at night.
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The CTC should put a link on that page to evidence that it's happened, if it has....
But that page is unlikely to be updated now there is no Technical Officer and if out out of date might just disappear (I saved myself a copy locally).
Nevertheless, here is a link to the (ex)Technical Officer, Chris Juden, mentioning some cases:
http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=81117&p=741298&hilit=reduced#p741298 (http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=81117&p=741298&hilit=reduced#p741298)
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He doesn't exactly elucidate, does he.
Besides, they're mainly talking there about lights that are incapable of meeting the certification standards, rather than lights that merely don't have the slip of paper. It's also worth noting that under EU law, any 'equivalent' EU country's standard can substitute for a British standard.
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Yeah. So it's relatively easy to be compliant if you've got a set of B&M dynamo lights (for example) fixed to the bike. Once you've got those, pretty much anything goes for auxiliaries.
But the OP was about keeping it cheap and simple (which in the UK doesn't generally mean the low-end dynamo lighting you'd get in more civilised countries).
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....Besides, they're mainly talking there about lights that are incapable of meeting the certification standards,...
The light might well have been bright enough, the manufacturer simply may not have bothered to have it tested/submitted for testing etc.
\...It's also worth noting that under EU law, any 'equivalent' EU country's standard can substitute for a British standard.
But ONLY if that EU standard offers an equivalent level of safety, of which the only candidate is the German rules (I am not sure if the highest options(rkf-3) within the dutch voluntary rkf rules would count.).
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....Besides, they're mainly talking there about lights that are incapable of meeting the certification standards,...
The light might well have been bright enough, the manufacturer simply may not have bothered to have it tested/submitted for testing etc.
\...It's also worth noting that under EU law, any 'equivalent' EU country's standard can substitute for a British standard.
But ONLY if that EU standard offers an equivalent level of safety, of which the only candidate is the German rules (I am not sure if the highest options(rkf-3) within the dutch voluntary rkf rules would count.).
From the wording of the CTC thread, it sounds much more like the lights were actually deficient. From that thread, you can't conclude that the courts reduce cyclists' compensation solely because their lights weren't BS certified - especially as CJ says that these cases were settled out of court.
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From the wording of the CTC thread, it sounds much more like the lights were actually deficient. From that thread, you can't conclude that the courts reduce cyclists' compensation solely because their lights weren't BS certified - especially as CJ says that these cases were settled out of court.
I don't see how you can deduce that from the linked post: it contains no comment on the lamps quality other than they were unapproved: an unapproved lamp is not not necessarily lower quality, the manufacturer simply has saved effort/money by not seeking approval, however a insurance company will look for any way to avoid paying...