Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Freewheeling => Topic started by: Wowbagger on 20 July, 2012, 09:18:07 pm
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2012/jul/20/britains-top-10-toughest-cycle-climbs?commentpage=last#end-of-comments
Amusing stuff. Which one is the toughest in the country?
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That's hard to answer, because most of us will only have done a sub-set of them.
Of the ones I have done which are on that list, Hardknott is significantly harder that any of the others.
So that got my vote.
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That's hard to answer, because most of us will only have done a sub-set of them.
Of the ones I have done which are on that list, Hardknott is significantly harder that any of the others.
So that got my vote.
I should have mentioned: everyone is allowed 3 votes.
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I've never experienced any of those, which seems somewhat amiss...
For the moment, I humbly offer Cofton Hill, which would be wholly unremarkable climb from one of my regular routes if some bastard hadn't covered the whole thing in what rogerzilla once succinctly described as "terminal moraine". I'm astounded I didn't come off my bike as soon as I left the roundabout. It's so bad that motorists were staying well below the suggested 20mph speed limit.
Also: where's Smalldean Lane?
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The related information links at the bottom, (underneath the comments) are amusing. I particularly liked...
clicky (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/nov/22/bradley-wiggins-team-sky-garmin?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487)
Timely information indeed.
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Also: where's Smalldean Lane?
Last seen in Buckinghamshire, I believe, m'lud.
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I note Park Rash isn't on that list, which I'd rate harder than Fleet Moss, though that's a beast itself.
As Feanor says, we can only vote on what we know, so I suspect that the daddy of them all is Bealach-Na-Ba, though I haven't had the honour of riding walking up it.
I voted for Rosedale Chimney, because, while it's not long, it hits you like a sledgehammer in the chest.
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That's hard to answer, because most of us will only have done a sub-set of them.
Of the ones I have done which are on that list, Hardknott is significantly harder that any of the others.
So that got my vote.
I should have mentioned: everyone is allowed 3 votes.
Ah. Wish I'd known that.
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I suspect that the daddy of them all is Bealach-Na-Ba, though I haven't had the honour of riding walking up it.
I don't think so.
Although Simon Warren rated it as 11/10 in his book "100 Greatest Cycling Climbs", the rating system is not just hard-ness, it's a bunch of other factors too which add to the enjoyment of the climb.
I've never cycled it either, but I've been there inna car, and on foot, several times.
And I've talked to many local cyclists who have done it, and who have been able to compare it to local climbs.
It's a tough climb, for sure.
And it kicks up at the end.
But it can't compete with Hardknott for sheer sustained silly ( 30%+ ) gradient.
I'd have to say that Wrynose comes a close second, because it hits similar gradients, just not so sustained. But it also comes shortly after you've done Hardknott, and are 100 miles in on the Fred Whitton route!
It was with some regret that I didn't detour via the 40% climb in Harlech on the BCM600.
But it was my first 600, and I wanted to keep my powder dry.
Also, I don't think I'd brought the right gears to the show.
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IIRC the 40% in Harlech is the wrong way along a one-way street.
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IIRC the 40% in Harlech is the wrong way along a one-way street.
*thinks*
I don't think it is. There again, I've only walked it a couple of times. I've never been there with a bike.
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IIRC the 40% in Harlech is the wrong way along a one-way street.
*thinks*
I don't think it is. There again, I've only walked it a couple of times. I've never been there with a bike.
Yes, it is, according to the Simon Warren book I mentioned earlier.
But apparently you're unlikely to meet anything coming down, since it's a fearsome descent.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll=52.861516,-4.107299&spn=0.000006,0.008256&hnear=AB14,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=52.861455,-4.10722&panoid=juz5GP69uGj1ICt7OrdAbQ&cbp=12,166.74,,0,4.8
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(http://peter.chesspod.com/gallery/d/9486-2/DSC05785.JPG)
Fordd Pen Llech, Harlech, from the top.
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Fordd Pen Llech, from the bottom.
http://goo.gl/maps/9NhE
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See sig line. :facepalm:
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The only one I've been up is Bwlch-y-Groes and only from one direction.
There are more difficult hills in Devon, for example the ascent out of Lynmouth or the triple chevron thing on the right between Honiton and Awliscombe
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Devon and Cornwall are full of vicious little climbs which are mostly too short to feature on a list like this, but I'd agree that they make for pretty much the most tiring cycling.
The only double-chevron hill I remember climbing successfully was on the tandem. It was this one: http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=271032&Y=68705&A=Y&Z=120
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I've ridden six of those. Ridiculous that I haven't been up Great Dun Fell, as it's only 50 miles away in a straight line, but it'd be a 200-mile ride there and back.
I've ridden them in such different conditions, that it's hard to say, but I did have to push up Hardknott (and a bit of Wrynose), with a touring load. I'll vote for Hardknott. Bealach-na-Ba is sustained but never that steep. Hardknott has a 1:4 section which I just got up, then an easy section (relatively), then the hairpins and the really steep bit starts.
Chimney Bank kicks up like a wall, but it's short, and the climb out of Littlebeck in the Moors is (IMO) harder in the Moors.
Fleet Moss isn't that bad, Buttertubs and (especially) Park Rash are tougher in the Dales.
The Lecht isn't easy, but the steep bit isn't that long.
I thought a few places in the SW would feature. There must be some brutes around Devon and Cornwall.
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I've only just read the link in the OP, and it's just a selective series of quotes out of the book I mentioned.
It's important to note the direction of the climb: many of these climbs have a hard side, and an easy(!) side.
The quoted article does not make it clear what direction we are talking about, although the book does.
Assume the more 'interesting' side.
So for Hardknott / Wrynose, we're going West -> East, towards Ambleside.
For the Lecht, we mean heading North, from Corgarf towards Tomintoul.
For the Bealach, we mean going West towards Applecross.
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That makes sense. I've only ridden the Lecht north-south, so the easier side. The others, I've ridden the tougher side, or both ways.
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I voted for Wrynose as I have got up it though had to push some of the way. Coming down was quite scary.
I was amused to see The Mighty North Hill but couldn't vote as it isn't really in the Premier League but much loved by those of us here in Essex.
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Bealach na Ba in approx 37 mins? Who are they kidding. I've never done it in under the hour and only the fittest and fastest of club cyclists will do it in under 40 mins.
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The only one I've been up is Bwlch-y-Groes and only from one direction.
There are more difficult hills in Devon, for example the ascent out of Lynmouth or the triple chevron thing on the right between Honiton and Awliscombe
From Lake Vwyrny, Bwlch-y-Groes is much easier than both Hardknott Pass, and Devil's Staircase, which isn't even listed. Bwlch-y-Groes from the west may well be harder, I dunno.
Hardknott and Wrynose are the only climbs that have completely defeated me on a 27" gear. All the fixed riding I've been doing may have improved strength but that might not be enough if I am ever daft enough to try the Fred Whitton Challenge again. The problem is not strength, it's an aerobic capacity issue. I simply don't have the fitness to climb them at a speed at which I can balance a bike.
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My problem on anything steeper than about 1:7 is keeping the front wheel on the ground whilst retaining traction. It is a long time since I have needed to ride anything that steep though.
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Yes, that's what I find too.
That's why you will eventually need to get out of the saddle, even if you have low gears.
To shift your weight forward.
I find that on the CoM, if I stay in the saddle, I'm right on the edge of lifting the front wheel esp. around the top bends where photographers hide. If I put on any significant power, the front wheel will certainly lift. I think the top section is around 16%, so not far from your 1:7.
So if I need to push on a bit, I have no choice but to get up and shift my weight forward.
That also requires a corresponding up-shift on the gears to take account of the lower cadence of an out-of-the-saddle rider. It takes quite a lot of nerve to up-shift on a steep climb!
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My problem on anything steeper than about 1:7 is keeping the front wheel on the ground whilst retaining traction.
That's why you will eventually need to get out of the saddle, even if you have low gears.
To shift your weight forward.
Nahh, you're doing it all wrong. The trick is to lie back and think of wowbagger. ;)
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I don't upshift. I just do a 'not downshifting to the 24" gear' instead.
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From Lake Vwyrny, Bwlch-y-Groes is much easier than both Hardknott Pass, and Devil's Staircase, which isn't even listed. Bwlch-y-Groes from the west may well be harder, I dunno.
Oh, it is, believe me, though I think you mean the south (maybe a bit south-west) - from Dinas Mawddwy. I've only tried it once, nearly 35 years ago. I basically stalled half way up. From Lake Vyrnwy and from the north (Bala), I remember it as an enjoyable but not particularly difficult climb.
I've only done Hardknott once too (only a few years ago). From the west, it's harder than the Bwlch, which never reaches 1:3, partly because the latter doesn't have hairpins, which are always the steepest part.
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Yes, that's what I find too.
That's why you will eventually need to get out of the saddle, even if you have low gears.
To shift your weight forward.
I find that on the CoM, if I stay in the saddle, I'm right on the edge of lifting the front wheel esp. around the top bends where photographers hide. If I put on any significant power, the front wheel will certainly lift. I think the top section is around 16%, so not far from your 1:7.
So if I need to push on a bit, I have no choice but to get up and shift my weight forward.
That also requires a corresponding up-shift on the gears to take account of the lower cadence of an out-of-the-saddle rider. It takes quite a lot of nerve to up-shift on a steep climb!
Feanor, is this the trick to prevent the back wheel spinning? If, so, I'll have to try it but my set-up is very clunky and I often have to double-shift; chances of staying on are limited! I've found that lately (depending to a certain extent on conditions) at about 1 in 4, if I can't keep the front wheel down (often on a bend) while I'm seated, when I stand up to throw my weight forward, the back wheel spins (even with new tyres) and I have to put my foot down because I've run out of options. It's a heavy bike (33lbs with the bag) but I've got big gears - round about the 27" Simon was mentioning. Is it poor technique, weight, or age?!
NB It's the short sharp ones at about 1 in 4 or greater that do this. I have done Buttertubs and Fleet Moss (even in the same ride) from the hard side, just!
I've never got up Gorsey Brow, near Broadbottom, in the three years i've been aware of it!
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No, it's simply to maintain my forward speed.
When I get up out of the saddle, it's like going down a gear or 2.
It's easier pedalling, but the cadence drops.
If you leave it in the same gear, your speed also drops accordingly.
If the reason I got out of the saddle was simply to shift my weight forward, and not because I wanted to do an effective down-shift, then I pop it up a gear.
So for the slower cadence, I try to maintain the same forward speed.
Other than in winter with ice on the road, I don't suffer from rear-wheel spin on any climb.
On the climbs we're talking about, say 16%, I'd be using 30 / 21 ( leaving the 23 and 25 in reserve ). That's about a 38 inch gear. I don't think that's low enough to spin a back wheel. At least, not with my bulk on it...
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Hmm, let's see
Rosedale isn't even the hardest in Yorkshire. Park Rash is like three slightly less steep Rosedales in quick succession. Buttertubs may be slightly easier than Rosedale but it holds a special place of fear in my mind, gained from cycling up it into a screaming headwind. Fleet Moss should really drop off that list to be replaced by Park Rash.
I haven't ridden Bealach na Ba but I have driven it; it looks like good fun but not as hard as Hardknott.
Wrynose isn't as hard as Hardknott either.
That'll be Hardknott then. It's far too easy to overbalance on the crux hairpin when tackling the west face.
Other notable mentions: Winnats Pass. It's steep, it's unrelenting and it is an amphitheatre that softens you up with the climb up to the mine and then shows you everything it's going to do to you before hitting you in the legs. The first time I got up it without resting was in the dark, when I didn't have the view of the rest of the climb to discourage me.
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Thanks Feanor. Lots to think about there. I don't spin it on 1 in 7s, either, so maybe I'm expecting a bit too much on the steeper ones. That said, I've only spun about three times, and always on 1 in 4 or so and always in the wet but it makes me nervous that it's going to happen!
Thanks again.
Peter
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Buttertubs is a hard climb, but it's on the "When is this going to end?" scale, not on the "Am I going to make this?" scale, as far as I'm concerned. Winnats similarly - I hadn't done it for decades, so I made a point of including it on a ride the other year, and it was pretty much as I remembered.
Hardknott was off the top of ""Am I going to make this?" - I didn't ;D I had to walk some of the corners and the last straight. Not sure about the Bwlch, as I was a young, inexperienced rider when I tried it.
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My cycling mate and I have been ticking off the climbs in Simon Warren's book in our area, but as we're Londoners there aren't any on that list above, but we do have the Downs. I think we've managed about five so far. Some nasty sharp ones amongst them.
Topically - Box Hill was one of them. It's nothing more than a longish uphill really. A bit of a disappointment.
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The climb from Polloch over to Strontian is as demanding as any, getting to it requires you to come on from Strontian, or to ride along the forest track from Glenfinnan. It's similar to Fleet Moss in the way that it leads you on with the possibilty of actually getting up it.
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Polloch&hl=en&ll=56.746417,-5.580196&spn=0.07135,0.123768&sll=41.023915,-72.155112&sspn=0.012206,0.015471&oq=polloch&t=h&hnear=Polloch,+Highland,+United+Kingdom&z=13
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Resurrecting this thread to post something about Rosedale Chimney bank, which I've done a few times when staying in Rosedale (though not as many as some OTP & not forgetting Everester Mike M from 2016). RCB is a good challenge, with a short sharp 33% section - though other climbs may well be harder due to being longer etc... Fortunately on RCB one can go wide on the 2nd hairpin, if no vehicles.
A couple of videos of the steeper bits. The cattle sheep grid is about 0.5km from the bottom of the climb...
Descent... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux7otgZd9Uw (quite a brake tester!)
Ascent... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHWwnZcdOCg (sorry about the wobbles n zig-zagging... onna 16kg bike and 26x32 /22")
The sheep use the grit bin contents as giant salt licks...
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Wow you climb that so quickly, I went up it at a snails pace ;)
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;) Yes x3 speed - saved people listening to me gasping for breath, and to get more in/ not over long.
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Whiteway (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.667709,-2.3365978,3a,75y,357.2h,102.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4DMkW5R35aWT_qR4ThY9ew!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) just outside Dursley gets my vote. As well as being steep it's ridiculously narrow, so you can't really weave to even out the gradient. Because it's in the shady woods, the road surface is nearly always damp and slippery, so maintaining traction with both wheels is tricky. I once met I car when descending it - although I managed to stop in time, dismounting was challenging!
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Never ridden any of those, and don't want to.
One of the hardest I've tried is Bwlch Penbarras (http://www.spincyclemag.com/killer-hills-bwlch-penbarras/) - attempted it last Christmas (why?) and didn't make it even with a triple!
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Having walked several of these my comments would be that Wrynose is no where near as bad as Hardnott. I very nearly got all the way up Wyrnose at my heavier weight (Lost traction on front wheel right at the end and panicked).
The reason for this in my opinion is that you have enough line of sight and enough road to ride side to side to lessen the gradient.
Buschcombe lane for me is definitely one of the hardest climbs for the same reason - its a horrible, narrow, bendy residential street and you have to stay tucked right in on the corners in case a car is coming around a blind bend. Its just as steep as Hardnott in places and has the incredible tight corners to match. Its horrible!
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Have done Buttertubs from the south which was "fine" but is it harder from the north? Also recently did Botton Bank (with some walking and resting) which claims to be 33% - how does this compare with other North York Moors climbs? Agree with others that the Bealach na Ba isn't so steep (I was defeated by the combination of a headwind and the steepest section). I've only done The Lecht from the north and think coming from the south looks harder.
Not done any of the Lakes climbs.
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I did actually make it up Bushcombe Lane on a recumbent trike, in spite of the gloomy prognostications of my fellow Audaxers at the start of the Cotswold Corker. Fortunately there hadn't been rain for a few days so I didn't wheelspin myself to a standstill.
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Buttertubs from the
south north (oops) is quite hard, but not on the scale of Hardknott or the Bwlch y Groes near Bala.
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Have done Buttertubs from the south which was "fine" but is it harder from the north?
Yes.
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Whiteway (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.667709,-2.3365978,3a,75y,357.2h,102.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4DMkW5R35aWT_qR4ThY9ew!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) just outside Dursley gets my vote. As well as being steep it's ridiculously narrow, so you can't really weave to even out the gradient. Because it's in the shady woods, the road surface is nearly always damp and slippery, so maintaining traction with both wheels is tricky. I once met I car when descending it - although I managed to stop in time, dismounting was challenging!
That raises memories of going up there one November afternoon, dead leaves all over apart from the car wheel tracks (about 12" wide each), and after 3 pints of Old Peculier at the New Inn, Waterley Bottom :thumbsup:. I failed when the front wheel just carried straight on at the first sharp bend, despite being aimed about 30 degrees right.
My memory of Wrynose and Hardknott is that whichever you do first is the harder; not surprising given that the middle is 100 m+ higher than either side. Hardknott from the west was harder than Wrynose from the east, so that will get my vote.
I've not done Bwlch-y-groes, Great Dun Fell or The Mighty North Hill, have done the others. The hard side of Bwlch-y-groes is from Dinas Mawddwy, to the SW.
I sometimes got an early start on the Corker (to be the secret control at Guiting Power), so I got to ride Bushcombe Lane on my own, without being balked by walkers, like I usually did when I wasn't the control.
Winnats is OK with proper gears as a regular cyclist, but it sticks in my mind from when I was a potholer rather than a cyclist, and rode my commuting bike back from Sheffield to Manchester Uni that way. 5-speed pseudo-racer (flat pedals, suicide levers and all), on 46x28. I was surprised the handlebars didn't break, and I collapsed in a heap by the top cattle grid for about 20 minutes before I was fit to carry on.
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Admittedly 11 years ago, and 8 stones lighter. I did Wrynose and Hardknott both with Full Camping load! This thread has reminded me, in a Horrific way, just how far I've fallen. The friend I was camping with was Gobsmacked that, as I was going up Wrynose, I was chatting to the people in a car alongside me.
I couldn't even get up there on an unladen Trice these days.
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And then you came down Hardknott with a full camping load? :o