Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => On The Road => Topic started by: giropaul on 03 August, 2012, 03:53:49 pm
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I thought it more appropriate to start a thread on this specifically, even if it related to current stories.
When I started cycling with a club, in Derbyshire in the 60s, it was considered very poor form to try to over/under-take stationary or very slow cars/ trucks etc at lights etc. You held your position in the queue, and moved off with the traffic.
Is it just a London/city thing, or do many cyclists now see doing this as acceptable?
I can see how it can have fatal consequences when a cyclist creeps up the side of a turning vehicle, and I would never go alongside a vehicle within, say 5 vehicles of a junction. In fact, I would hold position in the queue.
I can also see how a careful driver, who has patiently waited to safely overtake a cyclist, gets mightily pee'd off if said cyclist creeps up the inside at the next lights, meaning the whole procedure has to be repeated.
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When I started cycling with a club, in Derbyshire in the 60s, it was considered very poor form to try to over/under-take stationary or very slow cars/ trucks etc at lights etc. You held your position in the queue, and moved off with the traffic.
It still is poor form, it is just considered more acceptable the closer to London you get.
Occasionally it is merited, but most of the time I see it in London it is simply "Me me me" behaviour, akin to speeding.
Cyclists come from the same pool of people as motorists so not surprising, I guess.
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I reckon kerbside cycle lanes terminating in ASL boxes encourage filtering at lights.
In addition the driving standards,traffic volume ,car ownership demographics & other considerations all contribute to a driving culture that is now very different to that of the '60s
Human nature being what it is,there will always be someone who wants to be at the front & someone who objects to those not waiting their turn.
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I reckon kerbside cycle lanes terminating in ASL boxes encourage filtering at lights.
To be fair, I wouldn't class passing stationary traffic in another lane (even a dubious cycle facility) as 'filtering'. Though you're probably right in that it encourages the practice even when there aren't feeder lanes.
It's not something I do an awful lot of. I spend the bulk of my time riding bikes that don't filter well (due to lack of articulation or wider than average bars), so tend to just queue with the traffic by default. It's more useful in London where traffic not really flowing (rather than just being stopped by lights) is more common.
OTOH, I don't have a problem with other people doing it, if it's done safely.
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I agree, ASLs encourage single riders to filter up the inside. I have no problem with this most of the time, if we don't occupy the ASL there are plenty of motorists who will. On a group ride there's no point and I'll hold my place but it spoils it a bit if 2 or 3 filter up ahead.
I was riding back on my own through Cardiff after a club ride recently and I stopped in front of 3-4 cars at a red light - no point filtering through, there was no ASL and these lights stay red for a long time, nobody was going anywhere for a few minutes. I heard the driver of the car behind me ask something in a loud voice - sounded like asking for directions so I turned round to see if I could help. The irate driver was actually asking "Is it legal for you to ride in the middle of the road?" :facepalm:
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Is it just a London/city thing, or do many cyclists now see doing this as acceptable?
I see it as perfectly acceptable, if done sensibly.
I prefer filtering on the outside because drivers are more likely to expect to be passed on that side, and don't tend to drop passengers off in the middle of the road. It's also easier to predict a right turn than a "sod waiting in this I'm taking a shortcut down the next left turn". There's often a stretch of very slow moving traffic, heading out of town in rush hour, which means I can often use the comparatively empty other lane to overtake, when the cycle of the traffic lights permit. This is obviously better as it can be done much faster, safely out of the door zone.
I hate waiting for pretty much anything, so if I can avoid it, I do. I understand some drivers get annoyed with bikes passing them, and when I'm stuck in traffic in a car, I wish that I was cycling instead.
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I have no qualms about filtering on the outside or inside anywhere when I judge I can do it safely, and I do it a great deal, but I'm perfectly happy to stop and wait at real danger spots.
Too many of the cyclists I see in London just aren't prepared to even vary their speed, let alone stop and start. It's partly ignorance, which we can do something about through education. More woryingly, the rest is down to a lack of self respect.
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There's precious little correlation between 'presence of ASL' and 'safe to move to the front' and vice versa.
I don't make it a point of principle either way. If I want to and it's safe, I will... But normally I'm not in a hurry, so I don't. Sometimes I am tempted to do it when some twunt has overtaken me 30 yards before a queue at a red light, just to make a point... ;)
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If I'm moving slowly and its safe, I'll filter on the inside. If I were moving fast, or felt that I could be trapped by left turning vehicles, I'd take the outside instead.
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If I know the junction, know the light sequence and I'm confident that it's safe, I'll filter on either side, but never on the left of a long vehicle. If there's a long vehicle ahead of me in a queue, I'm quite happy to wait behind it, preferably far enough back and to the side that I can see its mirrors.
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^^^
This
The only exception is I commute along a rural A-road with a 1.5m wide hard shoulder. On there bikes use the HS and cars use the road and we leave each other alone, whoever is going faster.
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I never do. At least, I can't remember when I last did.
O- yes I can, 'Great' Yarmouth. Chris took us down the outside and I followed- I had to, we were on the tandem.
It's not a moral thing, more a mindset thing. I want to be treated as traffic, I act as traffic.
If I lived in London I'd ride buses, not bikes. It scares the living shit out of me.
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I don't make it a point of principle either way. If I want to and it's safe, I will... But normally I'm not in a hurry, so I don't. Sometimes I am tempted to do it when some twunt has overtaken me 30 yards before a queue at a red light, just to make a point... ;)
and this ^^^
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Don't forget your helmet if you're going to use London buses! I seriously seriously feel more vulnerable standing in one of those jerky bastards than when filtering past one on my bike.
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I would say ASLs and kerbside cycle lanes have legitimised, rather than encouraged, filtering on the left. People have always done it as long as I can remember - admittedly that doesn't go back to club runs in the 60s, but small town in the 80s, so it's not just a London or city thing. So these lanes have put an official stamp of approval on what people were doing anyway - but probably this seeming approval is unintentional. I tend to think the access lane to the ASL should be on the off-side - then cyclists would filter like motorbikes, where there is more space anyway as well as better visibility to all drivers, not just HGVs and buses, and we'd be more traffic-like while still getting to the front.
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I think another aspect that encourages filtering in London is the low traffic speed. On the occasions that I commuted in anything approaching rush hour traffic, if I filtered past cars to get to the front at traffic lights, the chances are that they'd never catch me up.
Filtering in a small town, you're more likely to have the cars overtake you pretty much immediately - which is pointless and aggravating to everyone.
I'll filter or not depending upon traffic levels - if I expect to be able to get a clean getaway and not be overtaken, I'll filter. If I expect to be overtaken, I'll sit in my position in the queue - usually in the middle of the lane, claiming my space (and also allowing those who choose to filter to do so).
It's something that irritates me sometimes on audaxes - being in a group of riders in the middle of nowhere as we approach a queue of traffic at lights (such as roadworks), and many of the group will filter to the front. Pointless, as once past the roadworks it's a 60mph limit and those cars will then be trying to do an overtake.
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Cud & Matth have it, ISTM.
I've most always worked my way to the front of queuing traffic (as does most every motorbike & scooter); then again, I'm a Londoner.
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In most big cities the point of cycling is to get through traffic faster than a car could.. If you don't filter what is the point of riding a bike?
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In most big cities the point of cycling is to get through traffic faster than a car could.. If you don't filter what is the point of riding a bike?
Fitness, price, flexibility, blah blah.
If you don't speed in town, what's the point of having a car?
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I can also see how a careful driver, who has patiently waited to safely overtake a cyclist, gets mightily pee'd off if said cyclist creeps up the inside at the next lights, meaning the whole procedure has to be repeated.
On the flip side, if in a long stretch of traffic lights a careful cyclist, who had filtered carefullly, could get pee'd off by a car driver insisting on overtaking just before hitting the next queue of stopped cars and causing the whole filtering procedure to be repeated.
I think it just has to be judged on the situation in hand. Sometimes filtering is valid, other times not so much.
Personally I filter/overtake if I expect to make good headway (and if it's safe) and just join the queue if it's a leapfroggy situation.
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Filtering is a perfectly acceptable technique on a motorcycle.
It's expected.
I can't see why it's precluded for bicycles.
However, that does not over-ride the need to Not Put Yourself in Danger.
( On either type of cycle.)
So, filter where it is safe to do so.
Otherwise, hold back.
Doesn't sound too hard.
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Filtering is a perfectly acceptable technique on a motorcycle.
It's expected.
I can't see why it's precluded for bicycles.
I rarely see motorbikes filtering on the LHS.
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Indeed.
I would not do that on a m/c, and would only do it on a cycle if I could assure my safety.
Since that would result in a 'fail' 90% of the time, I'd usually only filter in the LHS when the traffic was firmly stopped.
If it was beginning to move, I'd place myself well in front of a vehicle, where I was visible, make eye contact, and stop.
I'd assume the vehicle in front had not seen me, and may left-turn, so I'd not move any further forward untill it had stopped again, or it was plain to me he was not turning left.
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That's pretty much how I filter on a cycle.
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I need to admit that my cycling experience of filtering in big city traffic is rather minimal...
Sheep and Deer are a more likely problem for me...
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So, filter where it is safe to do so.
Otherwise, hold back.
Doesn't sound too hard.
Quite, or should I say, "+1".
What's the point of cycling if you don't filter? May as well be a moton.
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What's the point of cycling if you don't filter? May as well be a moton.
It's more fun and you avoid all that messy car business?
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I have no qualms about filtering on the outside or inside anywhere when I judge I can do it safely, and I do it a great deal, but I'm perfectly happy to stop and wait at real danger spots.
Too many of the cyclists I see in London just aren't prepared to even vary their speed, let alone stop and start. It's partly ignorance, which we can do something about that through education. More woryingly, the rest is down to a lack of self respect.
This.
p.s. don't you get marked down on your motorcycling test if you don't filter when appropriate?
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If you want to see the very worst on filtering, try the current Marylebone Road / Euston Road eastbound, with its confusion of lanes: bus, olympic, left & right turn. By the time you get to Kings X it is deeply shocking, why there are not more accidents is hard to understand, but I am grateful. My own techniques is to filter as and when I know it is safe - ie, no matter if the traffic starts or stops, I am safe, no pedestrians are crossing blind etc. When I can't I take the lane and chat to a cabbie or driver.
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Filter where it's quick and safe. Otherwise not and never on a club run. If the drivers don't like being passed they can get bikes.
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What's the point of cycling if you don't filter? May as well be a moton.
It's more fun and you avoid all that messy car business?
Where's the fun in sitting in a queue? It's bundling past the lined up cars and getting out of the junction first that makes it fun.
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Filtering is a perfectly acceptable technique on a motorcycle.
It's expected.
I can't see why it's precluded for bicycles.
I rarely see motorbikes filtering on the LHS.
Because motorbikes are expected to overtake in the normal place, on the right; whereas bicycles are expected to spend all their time on the left except when turning right - and sometimes even then. This expectation is shared by car drivers, road planners and most cyclists; which doesn't make it necessarily safe or sensible.
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Are there really people who ride bicycles who do not filter :o
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Are there really people who drive cars who do not speed?
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Are there really people who ride bicycles who do not filter :o
Yes.
Me.
You remember that photo from the Highway Code, showing a car giving a bike almost the whole lane? That's how much separation I want from tonnes of metal no matter who's overtaking who.
So because motorists aren't going to pull out to let me overtake them on the inside, then I'll wait my place in the queue, or overtake on the outside, where I can give THEM that same clearance.
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In most big cities the point of cycling is to get through traffic faster than a car could.. If you don't filter what is the point of riding a bike?
Fitness, price, flexibility, blah blah.
If you don't speed in town, what's the point of having a car?
Speeding is illegal, filtering stationary traffic isn't.
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Are there really people who ride bicycles who do not filter :o
Yes.
Me.
You remember that photo from the Highway Code, showing a car giving a bike almost the whole lane? That's how much separation I want from tonnes of metal no matter who's overtaking who.
So because motorists aren't going to pull out to let me overtake them on the inside, then I'll wait my place in the queue, or overtake on the outside, where I can give THEM that same clearance.
That's not quite as logical as it might seem. Compare the energy, and relative danger, of a bicycle at 20mph being passed by a car at 30mph. Then do the same for a standard filtering situation, car doing 0mph and bicycle doing 5mph.
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You remember that photo from the Highway Code, showing a car giving a bike almost the whole lane? That's how much separation I want from tonnes of metal no matter who's overtaking who.
So because motorists aren't going to pull out to let me overtake them on the inside, then I'll wait my place in the queue, or overtake on the outside, where I can give THEM that same clearance.
That's not quite as logical as it might seem. Compare the energy, and relative danger, of a bicycle at 20mph being passed by a car at 30mph. Then do the same for a standard filtering situation, car doing 0mph and bicycle doing 5mph.
You're absolutely right - and in addition it's a question of control.
But rower40 has a point - I do worry that I spend half my life asking drivers nicely if they wouldn't mind giving me plenty of room when they overtake, and then when it suits me squeezing past their cars quite closely. I am concerned a bit about the signals this sends out. But not concerned enough to stop me filtering on occasion... ;)
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Plus cyclists can predict when they need to swerve/wobble, but drivers can't.
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Filtering is a perfectly acceptable technique on a motorcycle.
It's expected.
I can't see why it's precluded for bicycles.
I rarely see motorbikes filtering on the LHS.
Come to Cambridge... the PTW riders round here seem to think that the cycle lanes are there for them to filter in, and that the ASLs are there for their convenience.
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Filtering is a perfectly acceptable technique on a motorcycle.
It's expected.
I can't see why it's precluded for bicycles.
I rarely see motorbikes filtering on the LHS.
Come to Cambridge... the PTW riders round here seem to think that the cycle lanes are there for them to filter in, and that the ASLs are there for their convenience.
Thats just taxi's in Southend
Going back OT I am sure when I learnt to drive, 1981/2, I was taught to always leave room for cyclists to get past on the inside when stationary. But I see plenty of learner drivers pulled over to the left side of lane which seems wrong imo.
As a driver the inside is where I expect to see a cyclist, although you are checking everywhere. I always move as far to the right in the lane as possible. Maybe thats what living in mainland europe for a few years brings to the table.
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Filtering is a perfectly acceptable technique on a motorcycle.
It's expected.
I can't see why it's precluded for bicycles.
I rarely see motorbikes filtering on the LHS.
Come to Cambridge... the PTW riders round here seem to think that the cycle lanes are there for them to filter in, and that the ASLs are there for their convenience.
Thats just taxi's in Southend
And here. Panther Cabs in particular...
Panther Cabs are Cambridge's answer to Addison Lee.
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Filtering is a perfectly acceptable technique on a motorcycle.
It's expected.
I can't see why it's precluded for bicycles.
I rarely see motorbikes filtering on the LHS.
Come to Cambridge... the PTW riders round here seem to think that the cycle lanes are there for them to filter in, and that the ASLs are there for their convenience.
Thats just taxi's in Southend
And here. Panther Cabs in particular...
Panther Cabs are Cambridge's answer to Addison Lee.
I was going to add, AC Cars are the worst.
Andrews Taxi's, who got the contract at the airport, really do set a good standard though :thumbsup: Its just a pity they seem to be out numbered 5 to 1.
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In most big cities the point of cycling is to get through traffic faster than a car could.. If you don't filter what is the point of riding a bike?
Fitness, price, flexibility, blah blah.
If you don't speed in town, what's the point of having a car?
Speeding is illegal, filtering stationary traffic isn't.
This isn't just about 'filtering' stationary traffic, though is it.
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Are there really people who ride bicycles who do not filter :o
Yes.
Me.
You remember that photo from the Highway Code, showing a car giving a bike almost the whole lane? That's how much separation I want from tonnes of metal no matter who's overtaking who.
So because motorists aren't going to pull out to let me overtake them on the inside, then I'll wait my place in the queue, or overtake on the outside, where I can give THEM that same clearance.
Is filtering stationary traffic on the left or the right the same thing?
I genuinely would rather not cycle if I didnt filter. It would, I believe, take me longer to get around by bicycle than by car :-\
Agreed it would be lovely to have that much space for every filter/overtake as per the HWC, but thats not realistically imo going to happen.
Sorry, not being argumentative, I think its best if we agree to disagree.
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A read of the Highway Code on overtaking, and then some reflection on how other people (not those who are proponents of filtering) might interpret could be useful.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070314
e.g.
162
Before overtaking you should make sure ... there is a suitable gap in front of the road user you plan to overtake
163
only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so
Anticipating the behaviour and reactions of others isn't about applying your own standards/expectations to them, it is about predicting their standards/expectations.
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A read of the Highway Code on overtaking, and then some reflection on how other people (not those who are proponents of filtering) might interpret could be useful.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070314
e.g.
162
Before overtaking you should make sure ... there is a suitable gap in front of the road user you plan to overtake
163
only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so
Anticipating the behaviour and reactions of others isn't about applying your own standards/expectations to them, it is about predicting their standards/expectations.
Where possible I filter on the right. Only when there is no room on the right, and it is safe to do so, do I filter on the left. For example in the following I first filter on the left - watching for peds or likely door openers - because there is no space on the right, then I take primary, then I carefully filter on the right:
http://youtu.be/Kkyi03i-WOw
I agree with Domestique, if you're not going to use the main advantage of a bicycle, then why bother? You might as well be in a car.
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i had a small incident yesterday in purley, relevant to this topic. four of us were going from brighton into london, i was at the back, about 30m behind from the third cyclist. there was a long queue of traffic, either moving slowly or stopped. when the cars were moving we were on the inside, going at similar speed around 20kph. when they stopped, slowed down to about 15kph. all of a sudden a car pulls out from a parking spot at the side of the road and i hit the wing mirror and off-side fender (no damage to anybody/-thing).
driver's story was: i was indicating to pull out and the bus (going the same direction) stopped to let me through. i started moving and there you (i.e. me) come from the inside the bus and hit my car! you all cyclists do that!
my story: i filter on the inside, slowed down to 15kph as the traffic stopped and the car pulls out right in front of me. i didn't see the indicators blinking as it was midday and the sun was shining from the back. she pulled out very quickly, probably as a "thanks" to a bus driver who stopped to let her go. she failed to see me as she only looked to a bus driver next to her and didn't look over her shoulder before pulling out. had she not pulled out so quickly, i'd manage to swerve or stop in time and avoid the contact.
While filtering can be done only when it is safe to do so, same applies to starting a manouvre in the vehicle - look in the mirror, over your shoulder(s) and proceed carefully.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-C_tNU3joWYw/UB5O9PC-zeI/AAAAAAAACT8/6zMUQGyvu70/s640/Image243_s.jpg)
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i had a small incident yesterday in purley, relevant to this topic. four of us were going from brighton into london, i was at the back, about 30m behind from the third cyclist. there was a long queue of traffic, either moving slowly or stopped. when the cars were moving we were on the inside, going at similar speed around 20kph. when they stopped, slowed down to about 15kph. all of a sudden a car pulls out from a parking spot at the side of the road and i hit the wing mirror and off-side fender (no damage to anybody/-thing).
driver's story was: i was indicating to pull out and the bus (going the same direction) stopped to let me through. i started moving and there you (i.e. me) come from the inside the bus and hit my car! you all cyclists do that!
my story: i filter on the inside, slowed down to 15kph as the traffic stopped and the car pulls out right in front of me. i didn't see the indicators blinking as it was midday and the sun was shining from the back. she pulled out very quickly, probably as a "thanks" to a bus driver who stopped to let her go. she failed to see me as she only looked to a bus driver next to her and didn't look over her shoulder before pulling out. had she not pulled out so quickly, i'd manage to swerve or stop in time and avoid the contact.
While filtering can be done only when it is safe to do so, same applies to starting a manouvre in the vehicle - look in the mirror, over your shoulder(s) and proceed carefully.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-C_tNU3joWYw/UB5O9PC-zeI/AAAAAAAACT8/6zMUQGyvu70/s640/Image243_s.jpg)
It's also a BMW, and BMW drivers are possibly the worst on the roads. I always do my best to give them a very wide berth.
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If I've read it right and it is true that you were undertaking a bus while there was a vehicle on your inside indicating to pull out then at best I'd make that 50/50. I want enough clearance passing vehicles indicating out towards me such that if they do something sudden then I can get out of their way without running into an oncoming vehicle; if I can't have it then I'd wait for the bus to pass and force a gap between it and whatever was behind.
Don't get me wrong, it was the drivers fault, should look for you first before moving, but we all know that they do this on a regular basis so you should really be trying to avoid putting yourself in that position. Being in the legal right isn't much use when you're stuck under a bus.
It's like riding in the door zone just because there's passing traffic, it's madness, make the cars wait till you're safely past.
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If I didn't filter past stationary /slow moving traffic on the way in to London, my commute would take 2 hours, and my presence on the road would wind up motorists even more than it already does, because they would feel stuck behind me as I can't do 0 - 30 in 5 seconds.
The traffic near me either goes much more slowly or much faster than I do. I can't keep up with it when it's doing 30mph + and I don't want to sit in exhaust fumes when it's crawling at 2mph. Filtering is legal, and I've learned the skills to do it reasonably safely (everything has a risk margin). I'll usually filter when there's the opportunity to do so.
Having said that, if the gap between cars is narrow, or if it's a straight up the inside job, then I'll hold back where others might be braver. My inclination to get to my destination is tempered by natural cowardice, which is probably quite a good Darwin feature. :)
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I agree with Domestique, if you're not going to use the main advantage of a bicycle, then why bother? You might as well be in a car.
I sense a geographical bias.
The main advantage of a bicycle over a car is that there's somewhere to park it where it won't get vandalised by students. Useful filtering opportunities come up on average twice a week. :P
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A read of the Highway Code on overtaking, and then some reflection on how other people (not those who are proponents of filtering) might interpret could be useful.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070314
e.g.
162
Before overtaking you should make sure ... there is a suitable gap in front of the road user you plan to overtake
163
only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so
Anticipating the behaviour and reactions of others isn't about applying your own standards/expectations to them, it is about predicting their standards/expectations.
But Case Law has established that filtering by bikes isn't illegal. Nor is it wrong if carried out carefully
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A read of the Highway Code on overtaking, and then some reflection on how other people (not those who are proponents of filtering) might interpret could be useful.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070314
e.g.
162
Before overtaking you should make sure ... there is a suitable gap in front of the road user you plan to overtake
163
only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so
Anticipating the behaviour and reactions of others isn't about applying your own standards/expectations to them, it is about predicting their standards/expectations.
But Case Law has established that filtering by bikes isn't illegal. Nor is it wrong if carried out carefully
Well, as long as everyone else on the road is up to date on case law, and that then allows you to predict their standards/expectations, then you're fine.
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A read of the Highway Code on overtaking, and then some reflection on how other people (not those who are proponents of filtering) might interpret could be useful.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070314
e.g.
162
Before overtaking you should make sure ... there is a suitable gap in front of the road user you plan to overtake
163
only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so
Anticipating the behaviour and reactions of others isn't about applying your own standards/expectations to them, it is about predicting their standards/expectations.
But Case Law has established that filtering by bikes isn't illegal. Nor is it wrong if carried out carefully
Well, as long as everyone else on the road is up to date on case law, and that then allows you to predict their standards/expectations, then you're fine.
So you don't know the bit in the highway code that specifically refers to filtering?
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So you didn't pick up that I'm not talking about me. Or you.
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You could say that about my comment too. It was a general you. ;)
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It's also a BMW, and BMW drivers are possibly the worst on the roads. I always do my best to give them a very wide berth.
In my experience it's a fight between BMW and Audi drivers as to who can be the biggest asshats behind the wheel...
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Sorry, not being argumentative, I think its best if we agree to disagree.
Exactly. :thumbsup: I'm not going to preach to others as to how they "should" behave, I'm just describing the way I *usually* ride.
I'm really lucky to use not-very-busy roads, so that the motor vehicles are usually going faster than me, and can overtake leaving lots of room; OR roads where the traffic is so snarled that I can overtake on the outside. It's the transition between the two that's the most hazardous for my style of riding.
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In my experience it's a fight between BMW and Audi drivers as to who can be the biggest asshats behind the wheel...
Audi are clearly winning, due to the dilution of the BMW driving pool by reasonably sensible people who wanted a reliable car (and have forked out for the indicators upgrade).
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I thought it more appropriate to start a thread on this specifically, even if it related to current stories.
When I started cycling with a club, in Derbyshire in the 60s, it was considered very poor form to try to over/under-take stationary or very slow cars/ trucks etc at lights etc. You held your position in the queue, and moved off with the traffic.
Is it just a London/city thing, or do many cyclists now see doing this as acceptable?
I can see how it can have fatal consequences when a cyclist creeps up the side of a turning vehicle, and I would never go alongside a vehicle within, say 5 vehicles of a junction. In fact, I would hold position in the queue.
I can also see how a careful driver, who has patiently waited to safely overtake a cyclist, gets mightily pee'd off if said cyclist creeps up the inside at the next lights, meaning the whole procedure has to be repeated.
For decades, "filtering" (although it was not referred to as such) was forbidden in the guidance of the Highway Code:
Make no attempt to gain a forward position in a traffic block by cycling along the narrow spaces between stationary vehicles
It was only very recently that it was codified in a HC revision and it is therefore not surprising that a proportion of road users do not think it is legal to filter forward and/or they simply think it is poor road/queue etiquette to jump ahead. It's worth bearing this in mind as some road users deliberately try to hamper your progress - this is another reason to be cautious when considering whether to filter and when filtering.
In Devon, I would very rarely have to filter as it would serve very little purpose. In London, due to the congestion, I do it regularly.
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Make no attempt to gain a forward position in a traffic block by cycling along the narrow spaces between stationary vehicles
Hmm. In practice people are usually either filtering in the narrow spaces between stationary vehicles and kerb or in the wide spaces between stationary vehicles and the opposite lane. I assume the former falls within the spirit of the rule, but I'm not sure of the latter.
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Highway Code Part 211 thus: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069858 (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069858) states:
" . . . difficult to see motorcyclists and cyclists, especially when they are coming up from behind, coming out of junctions, at roundabouts, overtaking you or filtering through traffic. Always look out for them . . . "
My reading of this (and I have no legal qualifications whatsoever) is that it wouldn't be written as such if filtering were illegal.
I used to filter when riding a motorbike (as does nearly every biker I know - it's one of the reasons for owning one) without creating/receiving any aggro and I do the same on the pushbike, again, with no aggro (and I commute through Glasgow).
A quick Googling found these:
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/community/Forums/Categories/Topic/?topic-id=357452&start-page=10 (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/community/Forums/Categories/Topic/?topic-id=357452&start-page=10)
and
http://www.access-legal.co.uk/legal-news/whos-at-fault-following-a-cycling-incident-lu-2816.htm (http://www.access-legal.co.uk/legal-news/whos-at-fault-following-a-cycling-incident-lu-2816.htm)
which may be of interest, especially the bit:
"Of more interest may be the case law on filtering. Filtering – or lane splitting – is legal in the UK, and other motorists are warned of the possibility of filtering vehicles in the Highway Code, where Rule 151 says: "In slow-moving traffic you should 'be aware of cyclists and motorcyclists who may be passing on either side." Despite the warning and legality of filtering, liability in accidents involving filtering vehicles tend to result in the sort of split liability decisions highlighted in the above article"
and then it goes on to give examples of case law that could be salutory reading and makes me think that I won't be done for filtering, but if I'm harmed while doing so then it's probably hard cheese.
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A quick Googling found these:
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/community/Forums/Categories/Topic/?topic-id=357452&start-page=10 (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/community/Forums/Categories/Topic/?topic-id=357452&start-page=10)
From that:
If the road you are on is split by a solid white line, it's still legal providing you follow the rules set out above and you DO NOT CROSS THE SOLID WHITE LINE! If you can safely pass (filter) on your side of the road, this is fine.
I doubt that is strictly true, as solid white lines may legally be crossed to pass stationary obstructions or to overtake vehicles travelling at less than 10 mph, as long as it is safe to do so. Therefore it is legal to cross the solid white line when filtering.
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p.s. don't you get marked down on your motorcycling test if you don't filter when appropriate?
No, although the examiner on my motorcycle test (in 2004, so fairly recent) did ask me after the test why I didn't filter at a particular. My answer was that it didn't seem worth it, and given the potential gain I couldn't be bothered taking the risk. He seemed happy with that :)
Back to the topic at hand, maybe it's partly the motorcyclist in me but I'll only ever filter on a bicycle in the same way as I would on a motorbike - on the outside of traffic, and only if it'll gain me a worthwhile advantage. I.e. not just a couple of cars which will overtake me before the next set of lights anyway. I don't cycle often enough on dual carriageways to have ever needed to filter between two lanes of queueing traffic in the same direction.
I've absolutely no evidence to support this, but instinct and anecdata tells me that your average driver almost never uses his/her kerbside mirror, so filtering up the nearside just feels too risky for me.
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I doubt that is strictly true, as solid white lines may legally be crossed to pass stationary obstructions or to overtake vehicles travelling at less than 10 mph, as long as it is safe to do so. Therefore it is legal to cross the solid white line when filtering.
Just to up-pedant your pedantry, you can only overtake cycles, horses and road maintenance vehicles travelling at less than 10 mph ;)
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I do worry that I spend half my life asking drivers nicely if they wouldn't mind giving me plenty of room when they overtake, and then when it suits me squeezing past their cars quite closely. I am concerned a bit about the signals this sends out. But not concerned enough to stop me filtering on occasion... ;)
I think there is a distinction between "squeezing through" and filtering, and I agree that the former is likely to be seen negatively by other road users.
On my commute home out of Reading I have 4 places where I interact with traffic queues. In one case I go up the inside (when there is room, otherwise I wait), another down the wide gap between two queues and in two cases round the outside. I find that by avoiding narrow spaces (and being prepared to wait rather than squeeze through), making my intentions clear wherever appropriate, carefully watching out for hazards like lane-changers and exiting passengers, and putting myself in the best position on the road to depart from the queue area safely I manage to negotiate the evening rush-hour traffic reasonably quickly.
I know that Reading is not like London!
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Back to the topic at hand, maybe it's partly the motorcyclist in me but I'll only ever filter on a bicycle in the same way as I would on a motorbike - on the outside of traffic, and only if it'll gain me a worthwhile advantage. I.e. not just a couple of cars which will overtake me before the next set of lights anyway. I don't cycle often enough on dual carriageways to have ever needed to filter between two lanes of queueing traffic in the same direction.
I've absolutely no evidence to support this, but instinct and anecdata tells me that your average driver almost never uses his/her kerbside mirror, so filtering up the nearside just feels too risky for me.
My instinct is to never undertake too. It's worked on commutes in several major towns/cities over the decades.
But I've found Oxford is different - at least approached from the South. They have some sporadic v narrow bike lanes, so I think motorists are expecting kerbside filtering all the time.
So they leave space - and if you try overtaking, you usually run out of road, as traffic in both directions drives right upto the central white line! So you somehow get yourself back to the kerb, and find yourself behind 10 local cyclists you were ahead of a minute ago ... :facepalm:
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I don't need drivers to see me when I'm filtering on the inside if they are stationary and have a load of stationary traffic traffic in front. I've done it thousand of times and I'm not dead yet. Passengers opening a door is a potential problem, but I watch out for that.
(But I don't encourage other cyclists to do anything they're not comfortable with. Just saying it isn't necessarily dangerous).
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I commute into central Leeds and central Bradford. If I waited in traffic, the 19km journeys would take just shy of twice as long. I use bus lanes and go around the outside of cars pretty much the whole route. So far, no close calls. I use 1 magic shine on strobe when filtering to deter people turning in front of me.
I never squeeze up the inside, but do have to cope with a couple of 3 lane sections which require me to assert my presence. On the whole, I've been surprised how accommodating the traffic is. I suspect they know they aren't going anywhere fast, and so realise it's not me that's going to be getting in their way.
Both routes are ripe for encouraging cycling. I repass cars that pass me leaving my village roughly halfway along the route into each city, and then they are bumper to bumper pretty much the rest of the way. I suspect even a slow cyclist would be quicker on bike if there was decent provision / pinch point are dealt with. It'd be a doddle to make a Otley - Leeds cycling superhighway, for instance - the roads are wonderfully wide - never get close passes. Otley - Bradford, not quite as nice, and the gradients are a bit steeper.
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DrMekon - Do you come back from Bradford via Hollins Hill? I have heard that a few of the blokes in the cycling club that I am a member of (Ilkley) have had a couple of 'offs' on that stretch of road.
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Yep. The road surface is brutal, but I'm running 37mm tyres on my fixed, so it's okay. Wouldn't want to go up or down it on 23s. It's a mess.
Actual traffic there is mostly fine. The only issue is as you come to the junction by the hotel, coming down the hill. The risk of a car flashing and letting oncoming traffic turn in front of you is too great to really let fly.
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Not long ago, I was going down the kerb side of a long queue. Actually this would better be described as a traffic jam as it was a couple of hundred metres long. As I passed inside a bus (not at a stop) the door opened and let a passenger off right in front of me (presumably she'd asked the driver because the bus wasn't moving and would take some time to get to a stop).
I wasn't going at all fast, just rolling, so I jammed on the brakes and stopped without hitting her or falling off, although I did lose by balance a bit. We then had an apologising contest "no it was MY fault" "no, no it was MY fault" and parted on good terms.
Anyway, my feeling after this was that it was my fault to some extent. Sneaking down the kerb side seems wrong somehow. I still do it mind, as going down the outside on that particular stretch is a bit hairy. But I do it more carefully.
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In a similar way, pedestrians crossing in front of the bus would be blocked from your view and probably wouldn't think to look for a bike filtering. Not sure whose fault that would make a collision, but something to be aware of.
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Indeed. While that sort of manoeuvre sometimes makes sense, I'm unwilling to do it at much above walking pace, because of the high risk of having to stop *now*.
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You can see if the bus doors are open when you approach. If you can't, don't approach.
ps. I'm still not dead.
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I'm sure CTUK have written in one of their bits of guidance (or was it John Franklin) that filtering is one of the most under considered skills necessary to ride a bike in traffic.
I find it is the one aspect of cycling that really shows how competent, aware and experienced a cyclist is.
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In a similar way, pedestrians crossing in front of the bus would be blocked from your view and probably wouldn't think to look for a bike filtering. Not sure whose fault that would make a collision, but something to be aware of.
Indeed, it all gave me pause for thought. A passenger - sick of waiting in the traffic jam - may open the door too (a bit less likely on the drivers side). Sometimes I go down the outside there, but that can be scary even if it isn't all that dangerous (you can easily see lorries and vans coming and get out of their way). I avoid that stretch in the car because of the huge jams. I think I may do the same on the bike in future.
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I'm with sam. Filtering is fun, and displays better than anything the perfect utility of the bike and the futility of a vehicle in a city.
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The best bit of filtering is when drivers spot you and re-position themselves to block your progress. I simply dismount, lift my bicycle onto the pavement and past the car/van, return to the road, look back at the driver while smiling and waving, then continue on my way. :demon: ;D
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Sometimes they do the opposite - see you coming and snap their mirrors in quickly!
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On occasion I've seen drivers make room for filtering cyclists, but it's usually the other way around. I assume their thinking is "If I'm not getting anywhere, neither is anyone else!"
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When driving, if there's room to manoevre I'll make room for a bike (or motorbike). But not out of politeness, rather because I assume s/he is a complete eejit and is going to ride into my car.
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Sometimes they do the opposite - see you coming and snap their mirrors in quickly!
The weirdest one I've had was one roll down the window and scream at me, causing me to perform a wobbly emergency stop. It transpired that they were upset that I'd broken their mirror. Pointing out that:
a) I wasn't anywhere near their mirror when they shouted
b) I wouldn't have wobbled if they hadn't scared me by shouting
c) In spite of that, at no time did me or any part of my bike touch their vehicle
...and most impressively:
d) the mirror wasn't even broken
...didn't get me anywhere. Eventually I gave up and rode off, before it got any nastier. ???
That's put me off filtering, generally.
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I think the mirror-folding is done more out of concern for car parts than body parts.
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I think the mirror-folding is done more out of concern for car parts than body parts. only
FTFY
Case in point, the plonkers who drive in Cornwall with the devices that audibly warn you when you are a tad close to the greenery mirrors permanently folded.