Yet Another Cycling Forum
Off Topic => The Pub => The Sporting Life => Topic started by: mattc on 13 August, 2012, 01:02:44 pm
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I was definitely cynical, and there were many things I didn't like; but overall I have a very warm afterglow which I really didn't expect.
What say the YACF cynics?
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I'm a sucker for technical theatre. They had me with the opening ceremony.
I'm remain largely uninterested in sport, but couldn't help but smile at the sudden outbreak of Wiggo-related comments from shouty pedestrians.
McDonald's can go stuff themselves, though.
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Cynic. Didn't watch, not interested. Not 'won over' at all. Utter waste of money IMO.
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Yes.
There are still huge parts of the surrounding stuff (mostly involvement and the power given to sponsors) but the actual events and everything around them were fantastic. Far, far better than I expected.
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I hate the global megacorporations. I loved the Olympics. But the closing ceremony was a bit pish.
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From the overwhelmingly over-commercialised torch procession through to the overblown ceremonies it has been corporate hogwash interspersed with some genuinely epic human achievements. I shall fondly remember the latter rather than the BigCo propaganda.
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Bunch of public schoolboys spending my tax dollar doing their hobbies on telly. Apart from the Pros desperate to build up their image so they can earn more next year.
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I was a cynic who was won over.
I drove into London the day after the wonderful closing ceremony, and there was just such an atmosphere about the place.
I sat in Potters Fields at Tower Bridge, where there was a big screen and beer and food stalls.
I sat twith a beer in the piddling rain, the sole figure there apart from the bar staff and the food chefs. "Oh oh" I thought.
Then the sun came otu the next day and things lifted off!
I think I've heard the Olympics described as a substitute for warfare, and I certainly think this Olympics helped bring together people from all over the world. I simply enjoyed askign anyone I saw with a map or at a Tube station looking lost if they needed directions.
Similarly sat down at the tables at Tower Bridge several times and chattd away with whoever was there.
Britian at its Best.
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I wasn't cynical as such, more worried I'd be embarrassed by a 2nd rate event, in front of 2 billion people.
I even worried, initially, that we may not win any golds and that we'd paid a few billion quid just to show the world how crap we were at everything.
In the end I felt very proud that we put on a great show and did it with a bit of British character, not just a generic sporting event.
That it was one of the best Olympics ever and we finished 3rd in the medal table is so far ahead of my expectations that it feels rather like a "did I dream that?" situation.
Investment in elite sports is money well spent (I really do see it as an investment rather than a subsidy). We don't have to build an Olympic park again so we are talking about small change, in the grand scheme of Bankers' losses, to promote sport for kids and to give the country some pride back. It really seems like politicians are getting serious about "legacy", I hope so. I feel rather inspired myself.
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I wasn't cynical about the games as such, but was suspicious of the sponsorship restrictions imposed by the global money lenders and purveyors of branded shoes, sugar and fat.
In the end though, their presence wasn't nearly so dominant as I feared. Plenty of non-burger related food in the park and the corporates generally tucked away from the main action. I could have done with fewer BA adverts and "fun" BA promotional antics on the big screens in the park though.
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I was a total cynic. The games have cost me a summers worth of lost business, so in addition to paying for it via my tax I have paid again in lost earnings. I didnt get a single ticket in the ballots so missed out until I lucked into a corporate jolly to the cycling. Thats when the tables began to turn and by the end I am as mad for it all as anyone. I bought t shirts and hats for the whole familiy.
I suspect there may be a big hangover though - Londons economy has dived as well as our cute speedo model.
Walking around the site one could possibly imagine it as the most soulless wasteland in 18 months as teh weeds and feral locals repossess the picnic zones and raised walkways. It will be a great film set for a reshoot of Trainspotting with Larnden instead of the scotch. innit.
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I had a ral downer on the Olympic thing due to what I still consider to be a bit of a fiasco around the tickets (an argument that has been done to death elsewhere and not for this thread but mentioend as the reason for my downer) which turned out to be immaterial as I was working stoopid hours for all but three days of the festivities. Being a curmudgeon I really wanted to hate the wholething with a Gold Medal winning passion.
I utterly and miserably failed.
I loved the whole thing from a TV watching distance.
My cycling heroes did us proud, even Cav who, along with the rest of the road race squad tried their heart out to win but were ganged up on. The rowing, athletics and equestrian teams came up trumps. The combat sports gave us medals galore. The youg lad who found his sporting abilities screwed up by a snow boarding injury picked up a shotgun and beat the world. Michal Phleps had us on the edge of our seats wondering if he was going to win another gold before he retired. The South African swimmer won Gold and his Dad won our hearts. Usain Bolt mugged it up to the crowds and proved he could walk the walk as well as he could talk the talk. Rudesia blitzed the 800 meters, Christine Ohuruagu was sooooooooooo close to a second gold. Saturday shou be renamed Farahday, Jessica Ennis overcame what I seriously thought was going to be far too much pressure and expectation and just blew the competition away- what a fabulous 800 meter run she produced as the last event. Jade Johnson throwing her headgaurd into the air and screamingwith joy in the Taekwondo. Being able to lip read the moments like "We've won the Olympics" (Kath Copeland in the rowing) and Gemma Gibbons looking to the heavens and mouthing "I love you Mum" after getting into the final at her weight in Judo. Too many to mention.
I lost count of how many times I found myself on the verge of blubbing like a good un at medal ceremonies or post race interviews.
Rio has a lot to live up to.
Well done London and the rest of GB.
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To early to say, give it another couple of weeks
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When the ticket lottery started Mrs T asked if we were going to try and get tickets, I said not.
Up until the start I was still thinking it a waste of time, especially with all the horror stories regarding G4S, the army and police etc.
Then I saw the opening ceremony and sort of knew this was going to be different, you know like when you saw the opening ceremony for Sydney (sorry but Athens and Beijing just came nowhere close, despite trying hard).
I tried my hardest to keep away from the coverage. This lasted all of 2 days (it would have been less but I was a bit peeved at the men's road race results).
Then I was hooked.
I have to admit to being on the edge of my seat for a lot of the Atheltics, the cycling track events were a mixed bag, but enjoyable all the same. Swimming (and diving) just left me cold, but I did enjoy the 'Merkins getting pipped at the post by the French.
So yes, I would say I was won over, sometime between now and 2016 my cynicism will creep back in though, I am sure!
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I cannot believe we pulled it off. The closing ceremony was a bit naff but the torch runners and opening ceremony was a real eye-opener. It was Danny Boyle wot won it.
I really hope the Olympic park lives on and develops a local sports culture / buzz. If I was young, free and single (and resigned to living in London), I would be seriously tempted to relocate and be part of it.
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The UK put on a bloody good Olympics and performed outstandingly well, both much better than feared.
Nonetheless, the cynicism will remain at least until Bolt gets done for doping (plus quite a few other competitors). For the naive, just check the link between BALCO and Bolt. In comparison, the men's long jump and women's pentathlon look as clean as a whistle.
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LWaB you have put into words what is niggling at the back of my mind.
This Olympics has seen very few records broken, certainly a lot less than, say, Atlanta or prior.
To my mind though the events that appear clean have been more exciting because of this. More a true athletic competition than who can afford the best and newest doping techniques.
Vino winning the men's race worries me too, it's only 5 years since he was caught. I am not saying that others in the race are clean, but I don't believe that win was 100% on the level (no pun intended)
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Fairly cynical to start with, but won over from the opening ceremony onwards. All in all I feel that the organisers should be congratulated.
Mrs. B, WHO DOES NOT DO SPORT AT ALL, shrieking at Mo Wossosname during the 5000 was a sight to behold. :o
I didn't enjoy the closing ceremony.
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I voted for the first option, but we'll be paying for this for a long time, I suspect, and I'm not convinced by a legacy beyond some new sports facilities (and London really needed that velodrome).
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Nope. Glad it's all over. Roll on the Isle of Man TT 2013 :thumbsup:
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My attention was grabbed by the actual sport much more than I expected it to be, but I'm still very uneasy about the way the whole affair was run - ie as a massive moneyspinner for the head honchos of the IOC and assorted international megacorporations, which is particularly distasteful when you consider how much of the actual work was done by free labour (call it "volunteering" if you like, but we're talking about a massive commercial enterprise here, not a charity).
I also hate the way the success of Team GB has been used as a smokescreen to hide all the
nation's ills. The Olympics is in many ways Cameron's Falklands.
Legacy schmegacy.
d.
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Fortunately the Olympics are far too early to benefit the Tories in the next election, unless Clegg jumps ship before 2015. OTOH, maybe Cameron is clever enough to engineer a split right now and call a snap election ; he needs to get a vote of no confidence though, because he's stiffed himself with his own fixed-term rule.
Of course...the Olympics were won, and the first 5 years of preparation carried out, by a Labour government.
Interesting factoid; Seb Coe is descended from Jamaican slave-owners. That must have gone down well with Bolt and crew ;D
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I wouldn't say I was a cynic - that would suggest interest and thinking it would all go wrong. I wasn't interested, I think it is a stupid waste of time and money. I don't like sport. I don't like competition. I would say that the positive things that will come of it are few - mainly the chance to push for more sport :sick: and that once the paralympics are out of the way, we should be shot of the whole ridiculous performance for another 66 years or so (yay!). What is the point?
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Bread and circuses?
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I remain to be convinced that any meaningful legacy will come out of it, if any.
Despite enjoying the events that I managed to watch on the telly, it still sticks in my craw that companies I actively boycott have benefited from my taxes.
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I enjoyed the opening ceremony (still not seen the closing one) and I enjoyed most of the bits I saw. I didn't go out of my way to watch anything but the cycling though. I did enjoy seeing the canoe slalom - that looked like fun - and some of the other bits like the judo which I wouldn't usually watch. I also liked seeing women's sports in the newspapers! And watching the women from countries which haven't previously sent female athletes was touching in a political way rather than a sport way, and both the Somali athletes were amazing given that they trained in a warzone.
Still hate McD's and Visa and G4S etc though. The level of corporate involvement has been staggering.
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I stuck resolutely to my "ignore the bullshit and enjoy the sport" line. I also enjoyed seeing women from all countries competing - especially the 8 month pregnant lady from Malaysia. There was some ho-hah about her competing while we were there on holiday a week before the Olympics, so it was good to see her compete!
The amount of money it cost is peanuts compared to how much we spend on the military each year or bailing out another failing bank. It even cost less than a mothballed aircraft carrier! I'd rather money was spent on anything but the military so it was ironic that the forces saved the day when another private company couldn't keep their end of a deal.
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I wasn't a cynic so much as unconvinced. But I loved the opening ceremony (haven't see the closing) and I really really loved watching both the road races, and the bits that I happened to see on TV. And I loved the 'people' bits like Le Clos' father going mad over his 'beautiful boy', and like Julian I liked seeing the women from countries who wouldn't have sent any previously. It was indeed nice to see women's sports in the papers. There was a lovely atmosphere in central London where I work and the roads were nice and quiet for the most part. (So were the pavements for that matter, I didn't have to negotiate any long crocodiles of schoolkids as I usually do).
Still annoyed that my friend got 3 sets of cheap tickets to the track cycling while I got none; it was an exceedingly unfair ticketing system. And yes all the corporate bollix was crap.
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Complete cynic, here.
Was I won over? By the sports, yes. To be honest I generally only watched the sports I knew a little about anyway, but I really enjoyed all of the coverage I watched - even if I wasn't entirely sure what was going on.
I didn't watch either of the opening or closing ceremonies though. I'm sure they were great, but I couldn't help but think how much benefit all that money could have brought to people's lives if, for example, it'd been invested in the NHS rather than paying dancers and celebrities to shout about it.
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I wouldn't say I was a cynic - that would suggest interest and thinking it would all go wrong. I wasn't interested, I think it is a stupid waste of time and money. I don't like sport. I don't like competition. I would say that the positive things that will come of it are few - mainly the chance to push for more sport :sick: and that once the paralympics are out of the way, we should be shot of the whole ridiculous performance for another 66 years or so (yay!). What is the point?
Might I suggest that your high performance CF framed Trek and the Ti VN you currently enjoy, would not have reached their level of development without the intervention of competitive events such as this, as well as others.
Just sayin' like.... :-*
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Nonetheless, the cynicism will remain at least until Bolt gets done for doping (plus quite a few other competitors). For the naive, just check the link between BALCO and Bolt. In comparison, the men's long jump and women's pentathlon look as clean as a whistle.
How can I check for a link that doesn't stem from unreliable rumours?
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I'm still a cynic. It didn't need the corporate wank fest that went on, or the civil liberties infringed upon. I'm an avid fan of sports and in that regard it was always going to be great.
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Biggsy, you won't. Let me know when you work out that dope testing only picks up stupid athletes. The smart ones are ahead of the game. Nobody got a positive from BALCO and the anti-doping folk had to have a syringe full of 'the clear' given to them before they knew what to look for.
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Nonetheless, the cynicism will remain at least until Bolt gets done for doping (plus quite a few other competitors). For the naive, just check the link between BALCO and Bolt. In comparison, the men's long jump and women's pentathlon look as clean as a whistle.
How can I check for a link that doesn't stem from unreliable rumours?
Pleeeeeeeze don't prod the bear! :)
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mattc, perhaps we can have a chat this weekend about the real world, rather than that pleasant little fantasy world where nobody dopes.
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I was a total cynic and having no interest in sport really didn't help.
I watched the opening ceremony and it was really good and I thought that was probably going to be all I was going to see.
I think it was after Wiggo won his gold that I became hooked by it, watched most of the sports including swimming/sailing/cycling/boxing and many more.
I was completely in awe of the dedication of our sportsmen and women, goes to show that you don't need to pay people millions a day for them to be winners.
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I'm not naive enough to think dope tests stop doping, but feel it's unfair to mention individual athletes when you don't have anything firm on individuals mentioned. A lot of the rumours that spark more rumours don't even get basic facts right.
On the Olympics in general, half of me thought the expense was an unjustifiable gross extravagance, but all of me enjoyed the Games very much. I reckon there will be some real legacy after all.
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I was slightly cynical to begin with, put off slightly by what seemed to be somewhat heavy-handed branding and the usual political shenanigans in the run-up to it all. Ticket prices seemed, to me, to be in general pretty high in relation to incomes. I also grew, during the run-up, to be more aware of the distortions and misrepresentations rife in much of the media, the relentless focus on and repetition of groundless non-issues, almost wilfully trying to stoke up resentment and anger.
But I was totally won over, even during the run-up, as I became aware of the effort and work that was being put in. Kicking off with the cycling sucked me in straight away. I was also won over by the humility of most of our athletes, a welcome relief from the stupidity of what goes on in fupball. Once it became clear to the media that the failure-fest that they were hoping for was not going to arise, more positive stories started to do the rounds, and as well as reading about them I could see the army of genuine, helpful volunteers that I have no doubt helped countless thousands of people to have a hassle-free visit.
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Good luck with that approach Biggsy. It has taken over 15 years for Armstrong and he hasn't been nailed yet. Bolt and cohort are producing performances that are 'extraterrestrial'. It'll be a while before the explanations are laid out for everybody to see.
Here is an obvious poser. The USA have a huge population and a big-money system developing sprinters. They were comprehensively beaten (in depth) by a tiny country with no dope testing. Just put a couple more dots in place and a picture starts to form. Ages ago Conte hinted that his former business partner was working in the region. Wait a while and other dots will come into view.
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Here is an obvious poser. The USA have a huge population and a big-money system developing sprinters. They were comprehensively beaten (in depth) by a tiny country
I think that's the issue. They don't like to lose.
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I wouldn't say I was a cynic - that would suggest interest and thinking it would all go wrong. I wasn't interested, I think it is a stupid waste of time and money. I don't like sport. I don't like competition. I would say that the positive things that will come of it are few - mainly the chance to push for more sport :sick: and that once the paralympics are out of the way, we should be shot of the whole ridiculous performance for another 66 years or so (yay!). What is the point?
Might I suggest that your high performance CF framed Trek and the Ti VN you currently enjoy, would not have reached their level of development without the intervention of competitive events such as this, as well as others.
Just sayin' like.... :-*
And when did they last use steel frames? ;)
I don't like organised sport. It's utterly tedious. School sport was bad for all the reasons that Cameron wants to intensify, so that's not a good legacy.
I do, however, like to see people doing things skilfully. And, by pure chance, I happened to be near a television last week while a lot of PE was going on in Stratford, so I did see some. Also by pure chance, I was able to see the Time Trials (well, a few seconds of each rider), and took some photos.
I quite enjoyed experiencing the Opening Ceremony vicariously via Twitter whilst in a tent in Oxfordshire, and I'd be curious to get to watch the whole thing directly.
But there was a lot of bollox surrounding the whole thing.
Firstly, the whole London thing. It was just hubris. Should have been in Manchester.
The corporate ownership bollox.
The security paranoia bollox.
The ticketing fiasco.
The contracting disaster.
The transport muddle.
The bike bans on trains.
The promised boom for tourism failing completely to show, and the last hope for many businesses suffering after a wet summer, but now looking at three desperate, desolate weeks of lack of business.
The good time for burying bad news bollox.
And, the biggest bollox of them all, Boris Bloody Johnson. A corrupt failure. A friend of foreign magnates. No friend of the poor of his own city. And now, probably the next PM.
Bollox.
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Keep believing Kirst, sometimes dreams do come true. I know where I'll place my bet though.
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Every sport, every generation, throws up an athlete who is exceptional. Just enjoy it for what it is.
Bolt, Federer, Tiger Woods, Armstrong are in this category.
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Every sport, every generation, throws up an athlete who is exceptional. Just enjoy it for what it is.
Bolt, Federer, Tiger Woods, Armstrong are in this category.
I've bolded the ones who would have won doped or not. Do some homework on the rest and think again.
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not exactly a cynic, I'm a natural pessimist, I thought it would all go tits up, but it didn't. I hate the burger company and all the other corporate bullshit and if I had been there any one who said have a nice day to me would have been told were to shove it, I hate that amercanism.
the sport was great although there are rumours some of the boxing was fixed, certainly the bloke who lost after knocking his opponent on his arse 6 times in the last round may have something to say
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Corking piece from Chris TT here (http://christt.com/words/closingceremony/) on the difference between the opening and closing ceremonies.
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I was moved to a sympathetic snuffle by the sight of Hoy weeping on the podium at the realisation that avoiding tax on his enhanced bankability may be more problematic, having been outed once already.
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next time round we will have to endure golf FFS, is that even a sport :demon:
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Is there any truth in the rumour that Macdonalds are suing Mo Farah for copyright infringement?
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Completely won over and bought into the whole thing after seeing the opening ceremony. I saw bits of it on the pub telly at the start of the night ride, and was my usual sniping whingey bitchy self. Then I sat through the whole thing and that was it - I was in.
I miss it now it's over!
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.....
I miss it now it's over!
Yup! :)
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Avoided most of it. The corporate bo**ox was outrageous and the G4S fiasco and ticketing issues could have sunk it. What saved it was the sheer brilliance of the athletes (that's how it should be). 3rd in the medal table after China/US? I remember the days when it was the US,Soviet Union and everyone else and the Eastern bloc results were the result of those Communist gymnasia and some clever chemistry and the US prob. wasn't far behind. So 3rd was bloody good. Can you imagine how good w'd be if we had the resources of China and the US (Altho' tey have larger populations). The political nonesense is irritating now. Cameron et al make it sound like it was their Olympics when a lot of it was funded by Lottery tickets.
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I always thought it would be good but was expecting a few cock ups, especially after the G4s and ticket fiasco at the start. I expect that there were a few.
I went to watch the road race for free and was amazed! They actualy did it properly! I thought that watching the road race would be somewhere to go on my bike for the weekend with the added bonus of watching a bit of world class road racing, which I thought would be reasonably OK, but not great. It turned out to be a very good day out! The organisation matched the class of racing IMO and ever since then I thought that the Olympics would be a big success and I think I was right.
I'm not keen on the corporate side of things either, but that's jjust the way of the western world. I'm not sure that it was us paying the corporate billionares. I'm guessing that the mega bucks companies bunged Coe & co a few million quid to help with the finances and get some worldwide publicity. Not that I'm too fussed about it.
I wonder if I'll get a go on the new velodrome....
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A view from the other side:
On the road race I was one of 1500 volunteer marshals.
We were organised into about 100 teams with a team leader in 30 sections in 3 major segments.
In addition to us were about 1000 stewards and security (G4S and other companies) responsible for crowd management.
About 150 route engineers and event management staff were there fixing issues and on standby for problems
It was coordinated by a team of over 200 in the control room. That is one part of one event.
Then there were the drivers and support staff to ensure the athletes and officials could do what they need to do, the drivers, cooks, cleaners, greeters, the people who did the admin and organised the uniform distribution to about 100,000 volunteers and officials.
There were a few minor hiccups. Yes G4S were short in supplying the total number of staff expected, but that should be looked at in the context of the number of staff that were provided, including SIA accredited people (for crowd management etc.).
What you missed was the little things that got solved. The 'why doesn't someone do that' things did just get done. You probably haven't heard about the three people arrested for attempting to sabotage the road race with tacks. I presume there were many similar things at other venues that just went unreported, and were dealt with.
It's fine for the armchair critics to snipe and criticise, but overall the olympics has been a massive, massive logistical success. It has been a huge success for Britain's reputation worldwide.
I don't like the commercial branding, but without the management and logistical expertise of people like ATOS and (dare I say it McDonalds), there would have been a lot of issues to complain about.
What we have left (apart from some world class venues, some great regeneration and some world class bills) is a discovery that we can do this, as a nation we can pull together, give a great welcome and really live up to the nations name of 'Great Britain'. There is a new atmosphere in Britain, a belief in the nation again. That it will only go to the dogs if that is where we choose to take it.
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A view from the other side:
On the road race I was one of 1500 volunteer marshals.
We were organised into about 100 teams with a team leader in 30 sections in 3 major segments.
In addition to us were about 1000 stewards and security (G4S and other companies) responsible for crowd management.
About 150 route engineers and event management staff were there fixing issues and on standby for problems
It was coordinated by a team of over 200 in the control room. That is one part of one event....
Fantastic stuff and well said.
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A view from the other side:
On the road race I was one of 1500 volunteer marshals.
We were organised into about 100 teams with a team leader in 30 sections in 3 major segments.
In addition to us were about 1000 stewards and security (G4S and other companies) responsible for crowd management.
About 150 route engineers and event management staff were there fixing issues and on standby for problems
It was coordinated by a team of over 200 in the control room. That is one part of one event....
Fantastic stuff and well said.
+1
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Oh, I should add that I am very proud and pleased that I was able to do a little bit with some great people to bring these games to the world, to showcase my home town and the streets I grew up in, and to say I was there and part of that.
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A view from the other side:
On the road race I was one of 1500 volunteer marshals.
We were organised into about 100 teams with a team leader in 30 sections in 3 major segments.
In addition to us were about 1000 stewards and security (G4S and other companies) responsible for crowd management.
About 150 route engineers and event management staff were there fixing issues and on standby for problems
It was coordinated by a team of over 200 in the control room. That is one part of one event.
Then there were the drivers and support staff to ensure the athletes and officials could do what they need to do, the drivers, cooks, cleaners, greeters, the people who did the admin and organised the uniform distribution to about 100,000 volunteers and officials.
There were a few minor hiccups. Yes G4S were short in supplying the total number of staff expected, but that should be looked at in the context of the number of staff that were provided, including SIA accredited people (for crowd management etc.).
What you missed was the little things that got solved. The 'why doesn't someone do that' things did just get done. You probably haven't heard about the three people arrested for attempting to sabotage the road race with tacks. I presume there were many similar things at other venues that just went unreported, and were dealt with.
It's fine for the armchair critics to snipe and criticise, but overall the olympics has been a massive, massive logistical success. It has been a huge success for Britain's reputation worldwide.
I don't like the commercial branding, but without the management and logistical expertise of people like ATOS and (dare I say it McDonalds), there would have been a lot of issues to complain about.
What we have left (apart from some world class venues, some great regeneration and some world class bills) is a discovery that we can do this, as a nation we can pull together, give a great welcome and really live up to the nations name of 'Great Britain'. There is a new atmosphere in Britain, a belief in the nation again. That it will only go to the dogs if that is where we choose to take it.
Thanks for that, David.
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It's almost the case that from a logistical point of view, from the punters point of view, most everything just worked far better then expected and most everybody had a great time. Almost a bit of an anticlimax really. Not unlike running an Audax when the weather is great, everybody gets round in good time, nobody falls off, gets lost or comes home with an epic tale involving a thousand punctures and the slaying of mythical beasts.
I mean, how BrItish Is that?
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Oh, I should add that I am very proud and pleased that I was able to do a little bit with some great people to bring these games to the world, to showcase my home town and the streets I grew up in, and to say I was there and part of that.
That's nice for you. Nice if you can afford to give up your time for free while someone else profits from your labour. Nice that you don't feel exploited. I'd like to have been able to take part but I couldn't afford to.
d.
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The problem with the Olympics is that it's become, or perhaps it has always been, more than just a sporting event. The country's sports people wins some medals and suddenly there is "a new atmosphere in Britain", er.. who says? We've been bombarded with so much non-stop propaganda from the media for the last 2 weeks that you'd be completely forgiven if you actually think there must be "a belief in the nation again".
"That it will only go to the dogs if that is where we choose to take it."
Who is "we"? If you mean ordinary people, then they have practically no say in the matter. If you mean the country as a whole, then the political, financial and corporate elite who are in control are not going to change the policies of more than the last 30 years just because of some sporting contest. In fact they will continue what they are doing because of it. Whether it'll go to the dogs depends on your political view though.
Sport in general doesn't interest me but I do like a couple of specific sports. I did watch a minority sport (not cycling) that otherwise is never shown on TV. And as there weren't any British players in it, I didn't have to put up with all the obligatory jingoistic commentary crap. Well I actually only caught a few minutes of it on actual TV, most of it was through the website catch-up page. That's another another thing about the Olympics, it is very difficult to watch one specific sport or event, even if they broadcast it. You would need to be at the telly all day flipping channels. At least now all the coverage is online.
What I loathe about the Olympics is all the stuff that goes on in addition to actual sport: endless propaganda about the Olympic "spirit", the torch, opening and closing ceremonies, constant flag waving, medal ceremonies and anthems, all the background stories about how everything is great and wonderful, the self appointed IOC who go from city to city sucking up billions of public money, LOCOG which is a private company spending billion of public money, "legacy" and "inspiring a generation" bollox to justify £10 plus billion of public money being transferred into private hands.
The volunteering stuff is not to save money, there's so much sloshing around they wouldn't know what to do with it, it's so that they can use it for propaganda and claim there's some sort of community spirit, that the games is for all and inclusive.
The thing about sport is that someone has to win. So how can the games be anything other than a success? Sports people arrive at a venue, winner wins, everyone claps, all leave and go home, and that's it. That's how other sports events are run.
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Thanks DM. I have a couple of real life friends who volunteered for the Olympics ( giving up their annual leave to do so). My friend's son presented medals. And my friend Lydia Rose (who is six) was one of the twenty twelve children. She and her family had a lot of fun being involved. I'm proud of them all and felt involved in the whole thing by proxy. Anyway what's to worry about? It'll not happen again in any of our lifetimes.
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New York Review of Books (http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/aug/08/olympic-arms-race/)
And I look in bemusement at Great Britain’s sudden rise up the medals table—the telltale sign of a country with an inferiority complex that has decided to spend lots and lots of money on attention-getting elite sports: modern-day penis envy.
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Does that make Americans a load of pricks?
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Sudden rise? We were fourth in Beijing and usually finish in the top ten.
Sign of a declining nation - worried about those coming up behind them. Pretty funny, seeing as we're the most declined nation in history! :)
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Some people (though not me, obviously) might wonder if there was a hint of sour grapes behind an Australian posting that link. ;)
d.
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New York Review of Books (http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/aug/08/olympic-arms-race/)
And I look in bemusement at Great Britain’s sudden rise up the medals table—the telltale sign of a country with an inferiority complex that has decided to spend lots and lots of money on attention-getting elite sports: modern-day penis envy.
It only gets better:
... the UK, which is a western version of China —a country with limited public sports infrastructure and little public participation but hell-bent on winning gold.
!
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Oh, I should add that I am very proud and pleased that I was able to do a little bit with some great people to bring these games to the world, to showcase my home town and the streets I grew up in, and to say I was there and part of that.
That's nice for you. Nice if you can afford to give up your time for free while someone else profits from your labour. Nice that you don't feel exploited. I'd like to have been able to take part but I couldn't afford to.
Well, I chose to do it. I could have chosen not to. It was a lot of fun and I feel that I got out of it more than it cost me. Every week people profit from my labour, whether it be taking pictures of Audax riders, helping organise events, doing other stuff.. Do I feel exploited for that? In this case who profited? The million or so people who enjoyed watching the events live, the many tens or hundreds of millions watching on TV, the small handful (a few dozen) with whom I interacted and was able to bring some smiles and happiness to their lives? Some corporate fat cat (not the major sponsors, it would be the companies responsible for delivery)? The apprentices who got the opportunity to build some iconic venues?
There are plenty of other things I could have done instead but couldn't afford to.
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Thats a good article I think. The olympics works at many levels doesnt it. Peopel can get involved in the whole volounteering side and be party of a huge social cohesion that must feel like a return to national consensus. That would be inspiring and I regret not being retired or in teaching so I could have done it.
It also clearly works at a huge propaganda level and to ignore that would be very nieve indeed. Hubners diatribe above is also true - teh games is a global propaganda vehicle as much as anything else, designed to wash govts and corporates clean in the sweat of athletic prowess.
Money is thrown at elite sports prodigies to win medals under a national flag and there is a huge payoff for govt, national pride, hegemony etc - whoever is in power. On that basis there is a certain underlying truth in the comparison to China and GDR in team GB. Perhaps most notably so in the cycling given this is not a nation of keen cyclists at all, just an elite medal winning system.
But there's no denying that its huge fun to get into it and join in.
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Spot on Tigerr.
Interesting how the NYRoB guy thinks Merkins are exempt from the propaganda machine - when Jingo is their name sir!
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It was a lot of fun and I feel that I got out of it more than it cost me.
Look, I'm really impressed by the efforts that you and all the other gamesmakers put in to make the whole thing go off so smoothly. I just think you all should have been paid the going rate for your time as a matter of principle. Of course you're entitled as an individual to give up your time for free for something you want to do for no material reward, and I'm honestly happy for you that you found it such a rewarding experience - I'm really not so churlish as to begrudge you that - but look at the bigger picture: what's the cost to the economy of providing all that free labour to a massive commercial enterprise that isn't paying tax in this country on its vast profits?
I don't accept the label "cynic" - I don't choose to look for the negative in this but I can't ignore it. Feel free to label my point of view as the sniping of an armchair critic if you like but that doesn't address my concerns or convince me that I'm wrong.
Every week people profit from my labour, whether it be taking pictures of Audax riders, helping organise events, doing other stuff.. Do I feel exploited for that?
Audax UK is a non-profit organisation.
the small handful (a few dozen) with whom I interacted and was able to bring some smiles and happiness to their lives?
Would you have been less able to bring happiness to their lives if you were paid the going rate for the job?
d.
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That would be inspiring and I regret not being retired or in teaching so I could have done it.
My dear chap, please don't let your bitterness spoil these great events for you. They are for everyone, not just the elite groups you mention!
Perhaps most notably so in the cycling given this is not a nation of keen cyclists at all, just an elite medal winning system.
We played a significant part in inventing/developing the bloody thing.
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Some people (though not me, obviously) might wonder if there was a hint of sour grapes behind an Australian posting that link. ;)
d.
Firstly, congratulations for a sterling olympics second best ever. Well done, I really enjoyed it.
Secondly, I think the article I posted suggested that Australia also uses sporting prowess to bolster a sense of world inferiority.
Elite sport has its place, but I think that we should prefer government spending our money on encouraging mass participation rather than places like the AIS (http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/). Obviously the two are linked, but I think the bottom line should always be on the health of society - and that is best looked after if people are encouraged to be healthy. This may sometimes include spending less money on the chance of a gold medal and more on play grounds. Occasionally it is appropriate to have a big party, but the real job of keeping people healthy is much more boring.
I repeat - you should be proud of what has just happened.
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I read that Australia spent more money on its Olympic sports than we did?
As for volunteering, well, communities with volunteering seem to be happy, thriving ones to me. I think most people would be rather surprised if they found out how much of what is done around them is done voluntarily. Even on this small insignificant forum there is volunteering every day. I've read several threads this morning where people have given up their time to provide help to other forummers. Maybe we should charge each other for that? That would be much fairer and would mean that those giving their time and expertise would be paid as a matter of principle.
Communities that place money as the measure of human effort seem rather impersonal and lacking. They certainly aren't communities I want to be part of.
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You can't move in Toytown at the moment without bumping into a gang of jogging women carrying bottles of water. The Games has definitely inspired people round here anyway. Nothing is perfect.
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The funding processes put in place by UKSport are predicated on development, not only of podium programmes but of coaches and clubs/facilities and the whole development stream. Maybe there needs to be a pot of money put aside to encourage local clubs to partner with schools to deliver sport, where budding athletes can be supported through delivery of sport to the community. Very nice clip of Ian Thorpe teaching kids at Tooting Bec lido to swim -we then not only get our top athletes, but there is a mechanism to support the not so good and get payback for the investment into the community.
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Elite sport has its place, but I think that we should prefer government spending our money on encouraging mass participation rather than places like the AIS (http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/). Obviously the two are linked, but I think the bottom line should always be on the health of society - and that is best looked after if people are encouraged to be healthy. This may sometimes include spending less money on the chance of a gold medal and more on play grounds. Occasionally it is appropriate to have a big party, but the real job of keeping people healthy is much more boring.
Completely agree. Cameron's nonsense about making competitive sport compulsory shows that he really hasn't got a fucking clue. Also that crap about Indian dancing sounds more like a Daily Mail scare headline than a story with any basis in truth.
d.
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You can't move in Toytown at the moment without bumping into a gang of jogging women carrying bottles of water. The Games has definitely inspired people round here anyway. Nothing is perfect.
I'm glad they've been inspired and I really hope it lasts but it's way, way too early to make any meaningful assessment of the "legacy" of the games.
d.
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That would be inspiring and I regret not being retired or in teaching so I could have done it.
My dear chap, please don't let your bitterness spoil these great events for you. They are for everyone, not just the elite groups you mention!
Perhaps most notably so in the cycling given this is not a nation of keen cyclists at all, just an elite medal winning system.
We played a significant part in inventing/developing the bloody thing.
I have to admit my innate cycnicism was swept away after the first 'GOOOOOOOOOOLD' for team GB - and I think I permanently damaged my vocal chords in the velodrome screaming for Trott and co. I loved the gamesmakers and it was unquestionably one of the best things I have ever seen in my life. I loved the jingoism, and I can shout the Anthem as well as anyone, and scorn the furriners to boot. So you can belay the bitterness stuff Mattey. The fact that I can get as swept up by the attractions of superbly managed propaganda doesnt mean its not just that.
That doesn't detract from the obvious fact that in the velodrome there was a team GB camp twice the size of anyone elses, with better coaching, kit etc - its an elite bubble, and it was a political decision to invest here rather than in e.g. Archery where we flopped.
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You can't move in Toytown at the moment without bumping into a gang of jogging women carrying bottles of water. The Games has definitely inspired people round here anyway. Nothing is perfect.
I'm glad they've been inspired and I really hope it lasts but it's way, way too early to make any meaningful assessment of the "legacy" of the games.
d.
Every little helps.
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I've seen the term 'jingoism' thrown about quite liberally in various discussions of support for GB during the olympics.
One of the things that 'won me over' was a sense in which the union flag could be used as part of a celebration that was anything but jingoistic. Almost all my life that flag has been associated with something I've wanted to distance myself from, be it far right politics, royal weddings, military and cultural imperialism or hypocritical prime ministers at Remembrance Day services.
During the Olympics, and hopefully beyond, I've seen it used much as I saw national strips being used during PBP or LEL, as a way of celebrating a global event without any of the sense of aggressive jingoism that implies "we're better than you simply for who we are". I see it as a small contribution to repossessing the image, just as others like Billy Brag or Show of Hands have tried to do.
It is a pity that the nonsense at beginning of the closing ceremony with Spall's Churchill spouting Shakespeare from atop Big Ben did its bit to undo that good work.
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The only time I saw anything unlike what jo says was at Cardiff for the football. There were fans there who were, as far as I could see, the only ones in all the sports that had forgotten that they were at the Olympics and not at some scummy football match. Swearing, booing the opposing team captain for something he did in the Premiership in October last year, swearing, shouting for Premiership teams, swearing, and of course, swearing. Wankers.
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I was happy to wave my flag (metaphorically speaking) and cheered for the Brits most of the time, in the events where there were Brits to cheer for, but one of the things I really liked about the atmosphere of the games was the level of appreciation shown by the partisan home crowd to all competitors, no matter where they were from - witness the love for Rudisha and Bolt in particular. And moments like the huge roar the Turkish woman got when she limped over the line in the 800m over a minute behind the winners were just brilliant.
In the events where Brits weren't so well represented, I was happy to cheer on competitors from other nations. I really got into the archery, for example, and when the Brits went out in the early stages, I switched my allegiance to some of the foreign competitors who'd caught my eye.
I hardly watched any of the football, but it doesn't surprise me that the football fans let the side down. Ho hum.
Anyway, as I've said before, I loved the sport part of it, it's just the organisation that makes me feel uncomfortable about the Olympics. Though to be fair, the IOC probably aren't really any more corrupt than many other international sporting authorities I could think of - eg Fifa, UCI, FIA... And of course many of them are in cahoots with the IOC. It makes me wonder if it's possible to have big sporting events without institutional corruption.
d.
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Anyway, as I've said before, I loved the sport part of it, it's just the organisation that makes me feel uncomfortable about the Olympics. Though to be fair, the IOC probably aren't really any more corrupt than many other international sporting authorities I could think of - eg Fifa, UCI, FIA... And of course many of them are in cahoots with the IOC. It makes me wonder if it's possible to have big sporting events without institutional corruption.
d.
Allocation of an event and the running of the events involves orgainisations that include people. People are corruptable. As people are corruptable, corrupt people within the organisations seek out like minded people in the other organisations and corruption occurs. It is a fact of life that we unfotunatley have to live with. All we can do is seek to expose those who are corrupt and demand they be dealt with accordingly.
I should imagine that, if you were to examine most facets of our life, a degree of corruption exists. I know people have sought to corrupt me. Have they been succesful? I honestly couldn't say that I was 100% certain they hadn't.
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Wise words, fuzzy.
d.
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Oh, I should add that I am very proud and pleased that I was able to do a little bit with some great people to bring these games to the world, to showcase my home town and the streets I grew up in, and to say I was there and part of that.
That's nice for you. Nice if you can afford to give up your time for free while someone else profits from your labour. Nice that you don't feel exploited. I'd like to have been able to take part but I couldn't afford to.
Well, I chose to do it. I could have chosen not to. It was a lot of fun and I feel that I got out of it more than it cost me. Every week people profit from my labour, whether it be taking pictures of Audax riders, helping organise events, doing other stuff.. Do I feel exploited for that? In this case who profited? The million or so people who enjoyed watching the events live, the many tens or hundreds of millions watching on TV, the small handful (a few dozen) with whom I interacted and was able to bring some smiles and happiness to their lives? Some corporate fat cat (not the major sponsors, it would be the companies responsible for delivery)? The apprentices who got the opportunity to build some iconic venues?
There are plenty of other things I could have done instead but couldn't afford to
David, I would like to thank you for the efforts that you and your 70,000 colleagues put in so that we could all enjoy the games. I understand Citoyen's concerns about pay for labour, but I think he misses the point of voluntary service being for the recipients of that service, not for the benefit of those who might save money through the efforts of volunteers. If those efforts are seen only as one side of a financial equation, all charity is lost along with the community benefits that voluntary service brings.
As for the sport itself, there will always be those who cannot understand the thrill of competition or who are against competitive behaviour in principle. Fortunately (from my PoV), they are a small minority, and they will never kill the spirit that games like these Olympics carry with them and the uplift they give all of us who enjoyed them. That uplift isn't represented by the jingoistic statement that 'my group is better than your group', but simply in the joy of achievements which are enhanced - and brought about - by being within a competitive environment. Competition inspires people to incredible heights of effort and achievement, and is itself a wonderful thing to watch (it's probably even better to participate in, but I have to take that on trust!).
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I've seen the term 'jingoism' thrown about quite liberally in various discussions of support for GB during the olympics.
One of the things that 'won me over' was a sense in which the union flag could be used as part of a celebration that was anything but jingoistic. Almost all my life that flag has been associated with something I've wanted to distance myself from, be it far right politics, royal weddings, military and cultural imperialism or hypocritical prime ministers at Remembrance Day services.
During the Olympics, and hopefully beyond, I've seen it used much as I saw national strips being used during PBP or LEL, as a way of celebrating a global event without any of the sense of aggressive jingoism that implies "we're better than you simply for who we are". I see it as a small contribution to repossessing the image, just as others like Billy Brag or Show of Hands have tried to do.
It is a pity that the nonsense at beginning of the closing ceremony with Spall's Churchill spouting Shakespeare from atop Big Ben did its bit to undo that good work.
I was at a different event in the velodrome. A bit of polite applause for the foreigners was instantly drowned out by the roar of approval if a brit did so much as sit on a bike, and I could see it irked the other sides. I really enjoyed it through as it was very good natured. The Americans in front of us simply left as soon as their girl had ridden. Lots of the foreigners were heading out by the time the gold was awarded - which was a shame as I had really wanted to sing it loud for their benefit.
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I've seen the term 'jingoism' thrown about quite liberally in various discussions of support for GB during the olympics.
One of the things that 'won me over' was a sense in which the union flag could be used as part of a celebration that was anything but jingoistic. Almost all my life that flag has been associated with something I've wanted to distance myself from, be it far right politics, royal weddings, military and cultural imperialism or hypocritical prime ministers at Remembrance Day services.
During the Olympics, and hopefully beyond, I've seen it used much as I saw national strips being used during PBP or LEL, as a way of celebrating a global event without any of the sense of aggressive jingoism that implies "we're better than you simply for who we are". I see it as a small contribution to repossessing the image, just as others like Billy Brag or Show of Hands have tried to do.
It is a pity that the nonsense at beginning of the closing ceremony with Spall's Churchill spouting Shakespeare from atop Big Ben did its bit to undo that good work.
I was at a different event in the velodrome. A bit of polite applause for the foreigners was instantly drowned out by the roar of approval if a brit did so much as sit on a bike, and I could see it irked the other sides. I really enjoyed it through as it was very good natured. The Americans in front of us simply left as soon as their girl had ridden. Lots of the foreigners were heading out by the time the gold was awarded - which was a shame as I had really wanted to sing it loud for their benefit.
That's because most of the people there weren't cycling fans. I've been to three World Championships and even at Manchester where GB won almost everything, the knowledgable crowds are always generous in their applause of anyone who rode well. France's great Kilo rider Arnaud Tournant even had his retirement race in Manchester - because he would have got more love than if he'd done in Bordeaux.
At a Worlds they don't have to play a "shush" sound before the timing beeps because everyone is already aware of what's going on.
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None of the events I saw live had any strong GB gold favourites, so perhaps that has influenced my impression.
During the women's weightlifting (group As, not the group Bs that included Zoe Smith), they spent 10 minutes at the start naming all the judges, jury and people who change the weights on the bar, including their nationality. After each name, there was a polite round of applause as you might expect. When one of the judges was announced as from GB, there was a huge cheer. Followed by a sort of half-embarassed mass ironic chuckle.
During the event, the largest cheers went to those who were on their third lift following two fails, regardless of nationality.
At the end of the event, after the inevitable gold from the Chinese competitor, there were various queues of (non-Chinese looking) people taking photos of themselves draped under a Chinese flag.
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[It's been touch-n-go, but the 'Approval' options - 1 and 4 - currently have a tiny majority at 51%. How exciting!
I'm surprised 3 didn't get more votes... ]
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I've been an insufferable evangelical non-cynic throughout the whole thing.
I thought the London 2012 Olympics were brilliant - and much better than I could ever have hoped for.
The "corporate" issue in the poll intrigues me; IMHO it was an internet/blogging issue only. If you experienced the Olympics via the BBC, there was no exposure to any sponsorship whatsoever. If you went to the venues, there was a vast range of non-McD food and drink available and your only exposure to the other sponsors were a few tiny logos on tickets. There were no banners, no advertising, no sponsors names on prizes - completely unlike any other sporting event I've ever experienced.
The cynics too, seem to populate the internet. Everywhere else: pubs, workplaces, trains, streets, living rooms, and especially the venues seem to be packed with excited, loud and buzzing Brits.
I'm proud to have been involved in the Olympics, proud of the organisers, proud of Lord Coe, proud of London and proud of Britain.
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That's a great summary, Gordy.
Hell, you couldnt even buy a MacDonalds at most of the venues.
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Nice one, Gordy :thumbsup:
Glad to hear you enjoyed it as much as you clearly did.
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Some good posts on this. I know someone who was a volunteer and got the indoor events (gym stuff) so I'll see what she says. But she had to take time off her holidays,pay for her accomodation, take time off to collect her uniform (go to London from Mcr to do that) etc. I appreciate the volunteering bit but paying for the accom. seems wrong. Lord Coe gets a nice boost out of it, the military have earned plaudits for their efforts (and so they should) but all those volunteers made it happen - perhaps G4S should donate their managemnt fee to them and the military, not the paltry 2 million they are talking about.
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I don't see why the volunteers get such a big pat on the back. They only did it because they wanted to. I've heard people complain they were over officious (they certainly were when I was at Sydney in 2000) but then you'd expect people who like telling people what to do to sign up for that!
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They get such a big pat on the back from me because without exception, every one who I encountered was patient, friendly and helpful. They seemed to echo and amplify the feeling of goodwill and excitement that has been hanging around London in the last couple of weeks.
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It seemed to paly well in France, they liked the musical interludes in the pool as an 'animation'. They were a bit confused as to why 'Les Anglais' weren't a team, and reckoned that they got more medals then 'Les Anglais'.
I didn't see much of the event beyond the Time Trial, as I don't like sport in general, and I was too busy cycling. The whole event seemed to have generated considerable prestige abroad. Whether that 'feelgood factor' translates into anything positive remains to be seen.
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[It's been touch-n-go, but the 'Approval' options - 1 and 4 - currently have a tiny majority at 51%. How exciting!
I'm surprised 3 didn't get more votes... ]
I haven't voted. I'm not surprised 3 didn't get more votes - the sport wasn't rubbish if you like that sort of thing. If you don't like that sort of thing (and as you may have gathered, I don't), why would you watch it, since you know that sport is rubbish anyway?
There isn't an option for 'Didn't watch, don't care'.
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I don't see why the volunteers get such a big pat on the back. They only did it because they wanted to. I've heard people complain they were over officious (they certainly were when I was at Sydney in 2000) but then you'd expect people who like telling people what to do to sign up for that!
From my experience, those who complain about the volunteers being over officious are those who cannot see teh big picture of the event or understand even that there is a big picture beyond their own little world. The same people who can't see why just stopping there with their hazards on because they are 'only 5 miniutes whilst they get a paper' is a problem.
We had a ball. Best holiday ever (I had planned it as such).
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At least we can laugh Bob at the volunteers who go unpaid whilst $BigCo fill their boots. Some Big Picture, eh?
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I've heard people complain they were over officious (they certainly were when I was at Sydney in 2000)
For the most part, I think they were different people at London 2012.
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At least we can laugh Bob at the volunteers who go unpaid whilst $BigCo fill their boots. Some Big Picture, eh?
You think the volunteers were forced to do it?
At least with volunteers you get a bunch of happy and enthusiastic people to "meet and greet", consider the minimum-wage, Burger King alternative.
Volunteers help in many walks of life, while people at the top of such organisations are being paid well (see most Charities).
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No, I don't think that they were forced to do it. Just deviously exploited to the benefit of the greedy trouser fillers.
I don't think that you can reasonably compare a charity with this scenario.
As for Burger King: Well, if you choose to eat there you deserve what you get. One wonders why you didn't choose McD's in your analogy...
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There seems to be a developing competition to 'own' the success of the games. Cameron and Boris are keen on the 'Big Society', so for them the volunteers are the most significant factor. For unionised public sector workers the games were made possible by, and celebrated, the contribution of their class to collective well-being, even if they were not involved at all.
The most popular parts of the event, other than the appeal to patriotic sentiment of GB medals, were the opening and closing ceremonies. Those events were staged by media companies offering temporary and highly casualised work, many would have had 'intern' status, and be doing jobs for low or no pay, having got the gig through contacts.
The real winners are the groups and recording companies who have seen sales shoot up.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/elbow-profit-from-olympic-closing-ceremony-performance-8046559.html
I can see that 'brand GB' benefits, but those are not physical sales, so costs of production don't come to GB.
I don't diffentiate between any of the paid contributors, they've received their compensation. The games were 'owned' by those who contributed freely or at their own expense. They restore my faith. Those jockeying to 'own' aspects of a triumph they had no part in restore my cynicism.
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I'm not quite getting some of the anti volunteering sentiment.
Volunteering is a way that many folk can get involved with an event like this.
No one was forced to get involved for free and everyone who did knew what they were getting in to.
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No, I don't think that they were forced to do it. Just deviously exploited to the benefit of the greedy trouser fillers.
I don't think that you can reasonably compare a charity with this scenario.
The volunteers' work benefited the members of the public who enjoyed the Games - live and via television. That's a vast number of people. It made people feel happy. That's comparable with charity. Most of the money ultimately would have come from tax payers if the volunteers were paid.
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I can see the individual perspective quite clearly. What I find really quite disgusting is that such an event is swamped with volunteers to make it happen yet somehow the $BigCos can make such a healthy gain. The rich getting richer.
I don't believe that many volunteers really fully appreciate, nor probably care I guess that Pepsi, Kraft and McD's make a huge profit out of it.
Sorry Biggsy but making people happy per se isn't a charitable act in my book
Fuzzy, I'm not anti-volunteering. I do plenty of 'volunteer' or pro bono work myself - two days a week in fact. What I find stick a bit is that the volunteers are used in order to reduce costs to make an event look viable whilst at the same time their efforts make it easier for $BigCo's to fill their boots.
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PB, I am aware of your history in relation to pro bono etc. and think that your work is exceptinally valuable.
In relation to the $BigCo stuff, I may be getting the wrong end of the stick here again but, don't these companies actually stump up a not insubstantial wedge towards the setting up and running of the event in return for a bit of a closed market?
They may make money out of the event but they have to pay for the opportunity to do so, don't they?
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Indeed Fuzzy but obviously not enough up front otherwise we wouldn't need all these volunteers to make it viable.
Thanks for the support Fuzzy. :)
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Charity = the voluntary giving of help to those in need. We all need happiness. McD's etc are just making a return on their investment. That's just normal advertising, normal capitalism. The two different things of volunteering and commerce worked in parallel. It's conceptually awkward, perhaps, but in practice it worked.
ps. Pepsi wasn't a sponsor. Coca-Cola was.
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I can see the individual perspective quite clearly. What I find really quite disgusting is that such an event is swamped with volunteers to make it happen yet somehow the $BigCos can make such a healthy gain. The rich getting richer.
I don't believe that many volunteers really fully appreciate, nor probably care I guess that Pepsi, Kraft and McD's make a huge profit out of it.
Sorry Biggsy but making people happy per se isn't a charitable act in my book
Fuzzy, I'm not anti-volunteering. I do plenty of 'volunteer' or pro bono work myself - two days a week in fact. What I find stick a bit is that the volunteers are used in order to reduce costs to make an event look viable whilst at the same time their efforts make it easier for $BigCo's to fill their boots.
I think that is a somewhat dated left-university perspective.
I like the Elbow song 'One Day Like This'. The definitive version is live at Abbey Road with the BBC concert orchestra. Elbow wouldn't have made much from that, but licence payers paid for the studio time, Elbow then play the closing ceremony. and sales of their album rocket. Yet this is not criticised in the same way that Maccy D are, even though the food companies are providing a physical service. There seems to be a disconnect between cultural and physical products. That mirrors the divide between 'secure' work and 'casualised' work. Volunteering is problematic because it doesn't fall into the handy categories of production and consumption, so it undermines underlying social theory.
Anyway, the Youtube clip of Elbow at Abbey Road now has very high status advertising on it, and cookies will pepper all content you view with Elbow related material. It's worth watching though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk2xaeXnxlM
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The benefit many of the big companies make is through branding and publicity, not through direct income. For example ATOS, the management consultant and logistics company contributed their expertise (at some considerable cost) because the publicity benefits of being able to say 'we managed the greatest show on earth' are well worth it, just as much as I contribute my time and it is percieved by me as a benefit to say 'I was there'.
None of the major sponsors made money out of the games, they aim to make money by their association with the games. The ones who made money are the contractors. The people who built the venues (tens of thousands of construction jobs). The people who supplied security staff (despite the media hype, G4S and others did provide the majority of the security staff. It was the military who got the billing for taking the high profile security role of bag searches etc. You didn't see the thousands of private security and event stewards doing their thing out of the public eye). The people who supplied food to the caterers, who printed stuff, who sold/managed furniture and fittings.
That is where the money is going, not into the pockets of ATOS, McDonalds or Coca-Cola. Their benefit is less tangible but percieved by them to be worth the 2 Billion they paid.
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I can see the individual perspective quite clearly. What I find really quite disgusting is that such an event is swamped with volunteers to make it happen yet somehow the $BigCos can make such a healthy gain. The rich getting richer.
I don't believe that many volunteers really fully appreciate, nor probably care I guess that Pepsi, Kraft and McD's make a huge profit out of it.
Sorry Biggsy but making people happy per se isn't a charitable act in my book
Fuzzy, I'm not anti-volunteering. I do plenty of 'volunteer' or pro bono work myself - two days a week in fact. What I find stick a bit is that the volunteers are used in order to reduce costs to make an event look viable whilst at the same time their efforts make it easier for $BigCo's to fill their boots.
I think we're missing the point here, somewhat. The volunteers weren't working for $bigcos, nor were they doing work that otherwise would have had to have been done (or paid for) by $bigcos. Indeed, as Fuzzy says, those companies not only had to pay a substantial wedge to be the 'official' companies; all they got in return was the right to advertise in connection with the Olympics, and (where appropriate) have sales outlets within the Games locations. I would be very surprised if any of them made significant profits from their presence at the Games, though naturally they'd be hoping for returns from the exposure.
The volunteers were working for LOCOG, and the money they saved was from the public purse - just as it effectively is the case for all charities. And, as I'm sure you appreciate PB, it's not a case of if the volunteers don't turn up, the public will pick up the tab - in most cases, if volunteers don't turn up, the work just doesn't get done. That would have been a disaster!
ETA: the artists and celebs hired for the opening and closing ceremonies were each paid £1. They, of course, will also all be hoping for profitable spin-off from having been involved, though no doubt many will have been proud to have been able to participate.
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TimC, I agree with you. I think that you guys are missing the point somewhat. I wish I hadn't said my piece because this is descenting into P&OBI, somewhere I avoid for the sake of having a life.
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What was great about the volunteers was their relationship with the event. It was absolutely direct.
As soon as you inject an employer, or terms and conditions such as pay or a contract, you change that relationship and you get a different response from the employee as compared with the volunteer. Additional frictions appear, such as how much/when/how I am going to get paid; how good the management is, what my conditions are like etc.
This was definitely the case with the few G4S people I came across. They were clearly working for G4S, not the Olympics. The Army were working for The Olympics - they get paid from the public purse and were effectively working for the public purse. Listening to the stories from willing but failing to get anywhere G4S workers, compared to those from the Volunteers about things like uniform, management etc. merely highlights this. To manage 70,000 people as was done, with almost no negative comments from the public is quite astonishing. It shows that proper management is possible. It shows that, ironically, Macdonalds know a thing or two about management as well as about exploiting people in MacJobs...
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I don't believe that many volunteers really fully appreciate, nor probably care I guess that Pepsi, Kraft and McD's make a huge profit out of it.
I think that's incredibly patronising.
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What the heck, I'll chime in too.
I really didn't think we'd make it work. I had visions of announcements along the lines of "we are sorry to announce that the timings for the mens 100 metres final are not currently available due to a technical failure in the timing equipment", the building not being ready, and the event turning into a national humiliation.
I was pleasantly surprised by what I did attend in person (the time trials and men's road race). I enjoyed the atmosphere there, got the chance to see Wiggo (twice) and Cav, Froome, Millar etc even if they did go by fast enough that it was almost over before it began. I watched a few bits on the TV but wasn't overly interested in the rest of it.
It was good to see a decent haul of medals for Team GB. I wasn't inclined to pay so much for tickets somewhere back in the nosebleed section to also have to spend 90+ minutes each way on public transport, submit to airport style security, stand in line to refill my water bottle and pay inflated prices for a McDisappointment. I thought the opening ceremony was impressive until the relic otherwise known as Paul McCartney ruined it with a dismal rendition of an even more dismal song (someone tell him to retire, it's not like he needs the money from any more appearances is it?). I didn't see the closing ceremony, got it recorded for my wife and may or may not watch it myself.
On the less positive side, London seems to have done very badly business-wise, having McDonalds and Coca Cola as major corporate sponsors is something of a farce when the event is one of sporting excellence ("Faster. Higher. Stronger. Do you want fries with that. Supersize for only 50p extra." doesn't really work).
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TBH I didn't notice any of the branding by watching on TV, so if it helped pay for the beano then it's all good. Disclaimer: I am pretty much impervious to advertising; I like what I like and that's it.
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Disclaimer: I am pretty much impervious to advertising; I like what I like and that's it.
Very, very unlikely. Especially if you feel immune. See for example, http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ulterior-motives/201008/what-does-advertising-do
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The sport was fantastic. The commercialism was total shit - there's no place for that at the Olympics.
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Disclaimer: I am pretty much impervious to advertising; I like what I like and that's it.
Very, very unlikely. Especially if you feel immune. See for example, http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ulterior-motives/201008/what-does-advertising-do
Interesting article, although I guess a lot of the associations modern day advertising uses relate to things that don't make me feel positive so the advertising still doesn't tend to work much. For good measure I'm not into buying endless stuff that I don't need so I'm unlikely to be making the purchase anyway.
One thing I like is keeping things that still work for as many years as I can keep them going. I've had my stereo for 23 years and counting, my TV for 11 years and counting (the previous one died after a mere 16 years), my car for 12 years. Unfortunately for the advertisers they can't pair anything with that desire in a way that will encourage me to buy their product.
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Disclaimer: I am pretty much impervious to advertising; I like what I like and that's it.
Very, very unlikely. Especially if you feel immune. See for example, http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ulterior-motives/201008/what-does-advertising-do
The opening cermony, the closing ceremony and much that was in between were advertising an image of Britain as a vibrant, tolerant, inclusive and caring society, which can still compete at the highest level.
It's been quite amusing to see the various interpretations of who contributes most to this vision of Britain. Actually it's the lottery ticket buyers, who are seeking an instant escape from the everyday problems of actually living in Britain.
The Arcelormittal Orbit stands as a symbol of the games. Named after a Luxembourg-based steel company, owned by Indians, which now holds the remnants of British Steel. It takes the form of a huge pile of twisted wreckage, from which we can survey East London.
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The Olympics is a huge, multilayered brand with genuinely inspiring values - it really works, but its not so by chance - it is a manufactured brand.
Nobody, at corporate or personal level does anything without reason. The motivation of corporates in teh olympoics is not really much different to volouteers - to be part of it, to be able to say I was there, I contributed, I was part of this - because to do so gives both the corporate and the person a payoff.
Its not the same to say 'I was employed there' thats not putting anything in.
Both the volounteer and teh sponsors make a contribution to the event and get a payback. IN the end both did a good job, inasmuch as the event was superbly delivered and created a level of inspirational pixie dust that must be lovely to be covered in.
G4S didnt get any pixie dust though.