Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Freewheeling => Tandems => Topic started by: Hammerman on 11 April, 2014, 07:32:12 am

Title: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Hammerman on 11 April, 2014, 07:32:12 am: Can't believe I'm actually posting here but I've only gone and bought a tandem. Does that count as my +1.
Seriously though, my wife broke her leg 9 weeks ago, she's healing well, but she's not the fastest of riders and I don't hold that against her at all. When she started cycling I made a rule that when we cycle together, well, we cycle together, we'd like to do longer journeys together without her being knackered at the end, so, on a whim, I've gone and bought a second hand tandem. Is there anything special I should know or learn. The said bike is a 5-6 year old Trek T1000 fitted with 23mm tyres, it is extremely fast but I intend to change those for something more forgiving e.g. Marathon 28's or similar and fit mudguards as well. At last I'll be able to take her on audax rides without her fretting about finishing within time. She won't be back on the bike for a few weeks yet but she is already looking forward to it, think I've earned myself mega brownie points for this. Just wish I could earn them on every bike I've bought. Any advice please
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: CrinklyLion on 11 April, 2014, 08:32:39 am: I don't think I have any particular advice, being a tandem newbie myself, but have fun!
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: sg37409 on 11 April, 2014, 08:46:24 am: The stokers always right.

Very infrequently we had mega arguements on the tandem. Real hot-headed ones. It was well worth ignoring these as even an average tandem ride is great.
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Hammerman on 11 April, 2014, 08:51:49 am: Thanks for that but I've already been told/warned that the stoker is always right, and she wants a Garmin on the back as well, so she can keep an eye on the speed. :-(
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Chris S on 11 April, 2014, 08:57:48 am: Some rules we've developed in our short tandem career:

1. The stoker is (as you say) always right.
2. No anal events of any kind from the pilot. No exceptions. Ever.
3. Four sets of brakes is probably not enough (we'll find out for sure on tomorrow's Elenydd!).
4. Always carry a chain tool. You have two chains, one is very long, and they're taking the strain from four legs; you will break them (chains, not legs).
5. Everyone loves a tandem. Smile and wave at small children shut in cars; enjoy the late night banter from the local pavement weavers ("MENTAAAAALLLLL!!").
6. HAVE FUN!

ETA: Oh Oh Oh... I forgot. 7. If she gets off the tandem in a huff, don't - whatever you do - ride away on your own. :facepalm:
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: CrinklyLion on 11 April, 2014, 09:05:17 am: Actually - a couple of suggestions. See if you can have a go at stoking for an experienced pilot before you have a go at piloting. It means you have a useful insight into what life is like on the back seat. And ride with some other tandems if you get a chance - see how other people do it.
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Polar Bear on 11 April, 2014, 09:09:21 am: It is always sensible to remember that although the pilot is in 'control', the stoker provides an invaluable service.

Simple rules make life easier. For instance, the pilot always has feet down first, up last, the pilot warns the stoker when unavoidable bumps are about to be encountered, the pilot communicates for launch, stop and for changes to pedaling.

For instance, we start by the pilot straddling and holding the machine whilst the stoker mounts and sits with feet on/in pedals. The pedals are positioned for best launch for the pilot and to launch there are a series of instructions that we use:

Pilot: Ready to roll? Telling stoker that we are about to move off.
Stoker: Ready. Only when soter is ready. If they are not ready they should say so.
Pilot: Rolling. Pilot launches.

It is important for the stoker to respond to the pilot's pedalling and not drag or pedal through. It's much easier than it sounds.

For your first few launches you might have comedy wobbles. This is caused by the pilot over-compensating and / or either stoker or pilot giving it too much ooomph.

The pilot should talk to tall the time telling them when they need to indicate to turn left or right, to stop pedaling, to ease off, to beware of bumps, and when slowing or stopping.

When bringing the machine to a halt, the pilot should have both feet on the ground and a firm grip on the machine before the stoker attempts to leave the bike.

Fit bars / pedals / saddles that you both prefer wherever possible. The experience should be a good one.

Golden rules: (IMHO)

Pilot is first on, last off.

Stoker keeps feet off the ground at all times when on the machine unless specifically requested otherwise by the pilot.

Stoker resists squirming about when on the move.

Stoker responds to pilot's pedal rhythm, cadence etc. where possible.

Stoker says if they need the gear changing.

A tandem generally has a larger turning circle than a solo and generally will take longer to haul to a stop.

Sounds really boring, no? It's not. You'll get used to riding a tandem and it will become second nature just like riding a solo or a bent. You will have heaps of awesome fun and be the object of desire and wonderment of young children and old adults alike. So, don't forget the big grins. 8) :thumbsup:

Of course, the stoker, if of the intimately friendly variety, can administer fondling of the pilot at their own discretion. This piece of information comes with a cyclists health warning as such actions can cause distraction to the pilot. ;) :D
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: CrinklyLion on 11 April, 2014, 09:23:56 am: Me and the Cubs have developed two slightly different routines for indicating on the tandem. With the big one I say 'give me a left/right' and he repeats back to me the left/right so I know he's heard it and then I leave him to it, because he's clued up enough to indicate clearly and know when and all that. The verbal 'ack' back to me of which side was something he started doing spontaneously without me suggesting it the first time we went out together and I found it really helpful so have asked him to keep it up - it helps me to know that he's heard me right!

With the littly we added a 'pat me on the bum with the relevant hand' to the routine... he's only 6, and occasionally needs a reminder that it's the 'other right'. I also explicitly tell him to make sure he's got his bum properly on the saddle before he indicates (he's a big fan of honking!) and to put his hands on the bars for the corner and stuff. And there's some junctions when I ask him to let me indicate because I want him to keep both hands on the bars back there.

So I guess one lesson to learn is that it can be different with different combinations of pilot and stoker - find what works for you!
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Hammerman on 11 April, 2014, 09:31:37 am: Thanks for all the tips so far. Sounds like it's going to be fun. I think the first few spins had better be flattish and straight. Millenium path from Llanelli to Pembrey. Coffee stop at the start and end, and a couple en route as well.
Got the added bonus, if I take the front wheel off it fits in my van. How do you transport if you have no van?
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: jogler on 11 April, 2014, 09:42:33 am: Do whatever it takes to ensure that your wife IS COMFORTABLE.
This may need some professional advice from a tandem builder or respected retailer wrt to body fit/position on the bike:or you may be content to experiment yourselves given your mutual/experience on solos.
It may require a change of stoker bars or saddle or stem or cranks.

Always advise the stoker of impending gear changes,speed humps,braking or anything that may affect pedalling rhythm.
Avoid potholes,sunken drain covers & the like.You may wish to consider a suspension seat post for the stoker.

Do you have panniers & a rack or a saddle bag?Some type of luggage carrying capacity is more than usefull .
Bottle cages are adviseable.

I use a rear view mirror mounted on the offside drops.Obviates the need for any bum shuffling (which can compromise stability) to see what's behind.

Decide on your starting/stopping technique.Both with one foot grounded(same foot for both pilot & stoker) or stoker remains on the pedals supported by pilot.Whatever you decide stick with it to avoid confusion & ground contact at 33ft/per second/per second.

Your proposed first ride sounds ideal.Flat & straight ftw.
I hope you both have maximum spm (smiles per miles)

I used to have one of these
http://www.pendle-bike.co.uk/shopping/standard-tandem-rack.php

Currently contemplating using this
http://www.thule.com/en/gb/products/carriers-and-racks/bike-carriers/towbar-mounted-bike-carriers/thule-xpress-970-_-970000
with the tandem wheels removed :-\
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: CrinklyLion on 11 April, 2014, 10:02:02 am: Oh - the other thing that I found helpful (as did That Deano on the occasion that he piloted my Helios and I stoked for him!) was to take the bike out for a bit of a spin stokerless to get a feel for the length of the bike, how grabby the brakes were, how big the turning circle was etc. It won't handle the same as with someone on the back, unless that someone is as dinky as the SmallestCub (who is tiny but packs a respectable power to weight ratio - it's like a chatty electric assist apart from when he stands up!) but it does give you some idea and help you feel a bit more confident the first time you try with someone back there!
Title: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Hammerman on 11 April, 2014, 10:14:16 am: I've come to the conclusion that it might be beneficial to get a victim/volunteer from the club to stoke for me while my wife is still laid up, at least then, one of us will have had some experience. All I can say is "Bring on the Summer" it's gonna be a laugh
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Chris S on 11 April, 2014, 10:42:43 am: I have received a thigh-fondle and a word has been whispered in my ear from my captive Stoker. She says:

If the stoker is navigating, let them navigate. The pilot deals with the road conditions, the stoker deals with the plan. The stoker does the over shoulder rear view and the pilot has to trust them to do that. (This doesn't apply if your stoker is visually impaired or under 12)

Fidgeting is fine if the pilot is forewarned. Changes in cadence/ gear/ bumps/ whatever don't need announcing after the first 1000 miles or so, nor does the instruction to stand/ sit/ indicate. If the stoker is taken by surprise they haven't been paying attention.

As far as speed is concerned, if you have a stoker brake, resist the temptation to use it unless instructed. Trust the pilot, whatever speed they're doing, they're the one who can see the road. After all, you don't yank the handbrake when your pilot is driving a car, do you?
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Butterfly on 11 April, 2014, 11:03:00 am: That's a good idea. The more practice, the better.

Communication is the thing - calling bumps and if you are stopping and so on. It is hard to shift your weight when stoking and your bottom can get a bit numb, so occasionally I let clarion know that I need to wriggle and we stop pedaling so I can fidget. It can be awkward if I forget to mention what I am doing! I once saw a potential cafe and stopped pedaling and tried to turn towards it and that wasn't popular :-[.

The stoker should always tell the pilot if they are dismounting, taking time to mount or have lost grip on the pedals. (I usually pilot child stokers who occasionally dismount when you aren't expecting it and frequently lose grip on the pedals.) The pilot should always check that the stoker is ready before starting or dismounting.

The stoker does the indicating and map reading. Lots of cafe stops to start with, because bums get numb. I have a mirror on the stoker bars for rear view.

Toe clips or clipless pedals are helpful for stoking because you aren't in control of the pedals.

The pilot's jersey pockets are for the stoker's phone, sunglasses, handkerchief and possibly purse. His back is a useful place to pin the map.

It's loads of fun, enjoy it! :D
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: The French Tandem on 11 April, 2014, 12:14:52 pm: I agree with all what others said, but I'll add my 2 (or 3) pences:

1) Trust each other. That's for the pilot, who should be confident that the stoker won't panic, and for the stoker, who knows that the pilot won't make a dangerous move.

2) If you have to make a compromise between pilot's / stoker's comfort, make sure the stoker is comfortable first. The pilot can always deal with a suboptimal position.

3) Don't worry about what people will shout at you, like "she's not pedaling behind you". Even her best friends will tell her things like: "A tandem? Lucky you are! You can just sit back and relax!". These comments can become really irritating for a stoker.

The most important advice is have fun together!
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: The French Tandem on 11 April, 2014, 12:31:46 pm: Quote from: Chris S on 11 April, 2014, 08:57:48 am
ETA: Oh Oh Oh... I forgot. 7. If she gets off the tandem in a huff, don't - whatever you do - ride away on your own. :facepalm:

Really?

(http://fotoalbum.dds.nl/ivo_m/bramptonbarnardcastle/medium/IMGP4693.jpg)

Well, you were not actually riding, but walking. For the sake of honesty, I should add that we too walked along our tandem on this particular road.

Quote from: Butterfly on 11 April, 2014, 11:03:00 am
The pilot's jersey pockets are for the stoker's phone, sunglasses, handkerchief and possibly purse. His back is a useful place to pin the map.

and you forgot cake! One of the good points on a tandem is that the pilot can have food picked up from his pockets and unwrapped while keeping his two hands on the bar.
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: CrinklyLion on 11 April, 2014, 12:44:35 pm: And the stoker (as the SmallestCub has discovered) can do jazz hands at schoolmates, wave thanks to considerate drivers, and do bird impersonations and pretend to fly.

But only on quiet roads. We have A Rule about that!
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Oscar's dad on 11 April, 2014, 12:56:49 pm: Some great advice above. Our tandem is used far too infrequently alas. My stoker is my wife who is not a keen cyclist.

My only advice is that communication is key, particularly when it comes to starting and stopping.

Have fun!
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: jogler on 11 April, 2014, 01:07:56 pm: Quote from: CrinklyLion on 11 April, 2014, 12:44:35 pm
And the stoker (as the SmallestCub has discovered) can do jazz hands at schoolmates, wave thanks to considerate drivers, and do bird impersonations and pretend to fly.

But only on quiet roads. We have A Rule about that!

my bold
;D :thumbsup:
Emily used to give her mates the Royal Wave when we did the school run on the tandem.
http://www.robertdandersonphotography.com/galleries/royalty/
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Kim on 11 April, 2014, 01:41:07 pm: Nobody seems to have mentioned that vital tandem team skill: Bickering. ;D
Title: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Phil W on 11 April, 2014, 07:58:11 pm: I ride with a blind stoker. Warning them what is coming up, including hills, potholes , turns helps tremendously. You will feel resistance through the pedals if they prefer a lower cadence than you. You'll need to compromise on cadence. If you are the fitter one, then ease the cadence / gear for your stokers benefit. Do not stop halfway up a hill. Short and sharp and a bit of welly can get you up it, longer go for a spinning strategy. Looking over your shoulder when pilot can take the tandem with you, let the stoker look behind. Do not change gear halfway up a steep hill, all the power can strain the gear change somewhat. Don't get out the saddle until you've practised and count it down for your stokers benefit. A tandem in full flight is like a supertanker and 50mph on a gentle downhill is not that hard. Remember you are a supertanker and match speed to conditions. If you get the chance for a bit if easy off road rake the tandem in it, great fun. Let your stoker be pilot now and again to appreciate being on the back. I do this with my blind stoker but only on disused railways, and usually no more than 1/2 mile. Sharpens up my instruction calling and adjustment calls for his steering :-)
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: thing1 on 11 April, 2014, 10:10:58 pm: Great comments here!

My own thoughts, to add to the mix: for us one of the best bits was learning something new together. Not just the tandeming, but the whole world of touring, independence, and long distance cycling. Neither of us did more than short commute prior to having the tandem so the entire experience was a journey of discovery for us that really made it so much fun.

Your idea to get a team-mate do some practice rides as stoker in the short term is immensely sensible, but on the other hand if you want it to be a joint learning experience then you could also wait and learn it all together. Depends more if you see it as offering your wife an "expert guided introduction" to your own hobby, or something completely new to you both that you're going to undertake together. You'll be best placed to know which approach would work best for you.

Anyway, whatever, just remember to enjoy it as you go, and you'll have a blast :)
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: bhoot on 13 April, 2014, 10:51:34 pm: Quote from: The French Tandem on 11 April, 2014, 12:31:46 pm
Well, you were not actually riding, but walking. For the sake of honesty, I should add that we too walked along our tandem on this particular road.
Us too!

I think most of the really important points about tandems have already been made but one more "hint and tip" from this stoker - please don't pull in too quickly after overtaking other bikes, don't forget there is still another 6 foot of bike behind you!

One thing you are sure to notice though is that so many more people talk to you when you have a tandem. Some really special times have been when quite elderly couples have come up to us to reminisce about having a tandem themselves when younger.
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Julian on 14 April, 2014, 12:19:55 pm: Don't take both hands off the handlebars even if you do think the stoker's reaction is funny.

Honking takes a lot of practice. Little gears are usually better.

When filtering, remember that you have a lot of bike behind you.

I don't recognise all this "stoker is always right" stuff above, I thought it was the other way round ;D
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Kim on 14 April, 2014, 12:50:17 pm: Useful stoker skill: Quietly and without comment, ease off the power as the captain drags the cadence away from your comfort point. They'll soon learn to pedal at the right speed. :D

(This sort of mismatch can be solved more permanently and efficiently by differential crank lengths.)
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Polar Bear on 14 April, 2014, 12:55:06 pm: Quote from: Kim on 14 April, 2014, 12:50:17 pm
Useful stoker skill: Quietly and without comment, ease off the power as the captain drags the cadence away from your comfort point. They'll soon learn to pedal at the right speed. :D

(This sort of mismatch can be solved more permanently and efficiently by differential crank lengths.)

Thanks for the warning... ;)
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: The French Tandem on 14 April, 2014, 01:09:24 pm: The cadence problem is just a sign that one partner is an experienced cyclist, while the other is not.
After 2 or 3000 miles of happily riding together, the problem should disappear by itself!

We are also big fans of differential crank lengths, but this is due in our case to a great difference in leg lengths.
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Kim on 14 April, 2014, 07:57:57 pm: Quote from: The French Tandem on 14 April, 2014, 01:09:24 pm
The cadence problem is just a sign that one partner is an experienced cyclist, while the other is not.

Not always, though it can be. Plenty of experienced cyclists favour strange bikes without any gears, and tend to use relatively low cadences when climbing as a result. Others prefer (or are forced to by Knees or similar) a more spinny pedalling style.
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: clarion on 14 April, 2014, 09:48:59 pm: Butterfly and I have different styles. I'm much more spinny than her, so on the tandem, she ups her cadence, and I have to grunt in higher gears than I would normally use.
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Chris S on 14 April, 2014, 11:21:35 pm: Quote from: clarion on 14 April, 2014, 09:48:59 pm
Butterfly and I have different styles. I'm much more spinny than her, so on the tandem, she ups her cadence, and I have to grunt in higher gears than I would normally use.

Maybe it's a function of The Ride, but we find it varies as to what we consider "OK" wrt cadence and gearing. Generally, we've found a norm that works. But in extremis, such as fatigue, our styles depart and a compromise is required. For example:

Me: <Selects a gear - I have all the controls>
FBoab: "Easier, Please"
Me: <Downshifts>

or, later in the ride when we tire at different rates:

Me: <Maintains a spinnier gear on a climb>
FBoab: "I can handle one harder"
Me: "Erm... you're on your own with that one - I'm spent"

The compromise of The Tandem is a constant ebb and flow of fortunes, capabilities and desires; and that's the rub. If you have an understanding and tolerance with each other, you'll handle it - if you don't... well... it'll be something of a shouting match.

We've only really had a couple of incidences where it got out of hand; one notable being when I was losing patience with the inability to select granny over some hilly terrain (Southern Uplands of Scotland). I kept trying, and Fboab lost it:

FBoab: "Stop. Stop now."
Me: <Stops>
Fboab: <Gets off the bike>
Me: <Rides on up the hill>
Me: <Stops and Waits further up the road>
FBoab: "Don't you ever ride off like that again."
Me: "Well, don't get off then."

Sigh. Not our finest moment. But we managed, and we got over it.

Someone said to us "Wherever your relationship is heading - the tandem will get you there faster."
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Hammerman on 14 April, 2014, 11:27:29 pm: These are priceless
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Kim on 14 April, 2014, 11:50:44 pm: On the C&M Hilly 50:

Me: "Have you got any more gears?"
rower40: "Yes, but they're all bigger."

And of course, the sig refers to a particularly effective way of distracting your captain on a nightride...
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Chris S on 15 April, 2014, 07:23:37 am: Quote from: The French Tandem on 11 April, 2014, 12:31:46 pm
Quote from: Chris S on 11 April, 2014, 08:57:48 am
ETA: Oh Oh Oh... I forgot. 7. If she gets off the tandem in a huff, don't - whatever you do - ride away on your own. :facepalm:

Really?

(http://fotoalbum.dds.nl/ivo_m/bramptonbarnardcastle/medium/IMGP4693.jpg)

Well, you were not actually riding, but walking. For the sake of honesty, I should add that we too walked along our tandem on this particular road.

:D

I think she went on ahead to buy us Ice Creams.
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: The French Tandem on 16 April, 2014, 12:44:38 pm: Quote from: Kim on 14 April, 2014, 07:57:57 pm
Quote from: The French Tandem on 14 April, 2014, 01:09:24 pm
The cadence problem is just a sign that one partner is an experienced cyclist, while the other is not.

Not always, though it can be. Plenty of experienced cyclists favour strange bikes without any gears, and tend to use relatively low cadences when climbing as a result. Others prefer (or are forced to by Knees or similar) a more spinny pedalling style.

Since I have never been a fan of fixed gears, I just forgot this case! I was perhaps simplistically equating higher cadence with longer cycling experience.

Quote from: Chris S on 15 April, 2014, 07:23:37 am
I think she went on ahead to buy us Ice Creams.

Many people told me the ice cream in Alston is the best in the world ;) Perhaps they were just in a special state of mind that day?
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Julian on 16 April, 2014, 01:54:54 pm: Quote from: Kim on 14 April, 2014, 07:57:57 pm
Quote from: The French Tandem on 14 April, 2014, 01:09:24 pm
The cadence problem is just a sign that one partner is an experienced cyclist, while the other is not.

Not always, though it can be. Plenty of experienced cyclists favour strange bikes without any gears, and tend to use relatively low cadences when climbing as a result. Others prefer (or are forced to by Knees or similar) a more spinny pedalling style.

It is noticeable when C has been riding fixed and we get on the tandem. It tends to go along the lines of "cough splutter wheeze YOU HAVE GEARS ON THIS BIKE cough splutter" "Oh sorry dear I'd forgotten…"
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Hammerman on 09 June, 2014, 06:56:04 am: Well the day gas finally arrived, Mrs H and I have finally had a maiden voyage on the tandem. We managed 5 miles, quite how I don't know but we did it. Totally different experience to riding solo. Since then we've managed amother 16 miler on the Swiss Valley cycle path north of Llanelli, an altogether more enjoyable affair. Our aim is to do a local sportive end of this month. I reckon we are going to turn a few heads when we turn up amongst all the carbon bling, but as the organiser are friends of ours and its for charity what the hell, it's got to be done
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Oscar's dad on 09 June, 2014, 07:16:20 am: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: CrinklyLion on 09 June, 2014, 07:19:21 am: Excellent! Wishing you much happy tandemming.

We rode ours a couple of miles to the park yesterday. It also participated in Science over the weekend - finding out if a Helios can be persuaded into a VW Golf, and whether a Nikki otp can pilot one. And when the SmallestCub and I were parking up outside the Park cafe we had a long conversation with some neighbouring cyclists about the joys of a Helios and they both had a bit of an experiment picking it up to see what it weighs.

Tandems = ++good :D
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: The French Tandem on 09 June, 2014, 11:24:00 am: Quote from: Hammerman on 09 June, 2014, 06:56:04 am
Our aim is to do a local sportive end of this month.

Lucky you are that tandems are allowed on sportives in your area!! Most sportive organizers in our area prohibit riding anything but an upright solo. I don't know why. Probably they want to avoid anything that look non-professionnal on the photos ;)
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Kim on 09 June, 2014, 11:27:32 am: Quote from: CrinklyLion on 09 June, 2014, 07:19:21 am
Tandems = ++good :D

You were right about that saddle, though. :D
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: clarion on 09 June, 2014, 11:36:14 am: Quote from: Hammerman on 09 June, 2014, 06:56:04 am
Well the day gas finally arrived, Mrs H and I have finally had a maiden voyage on the tandem. We managed 5 miles, quite how I don't know but we did it. Totally different experience to riding solo. Since then we've managed amother 16 miler on the Swiss Valley cycle path north of Llanelli, an altogether more enjoyable affair. Our aim is to do a local sportive end of this month. I reckon we are going to turn a few heads when we turn up amongst all the carbon bling, but as the organiser are friends of ours and its for charity what the hell, it's got to be done

Woo and Hoo! :D :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: jogler on 09 June, 2014, 02:56:31 pm: Quote from: Hammerman on 09 June, 2014, 06:56:04 am
I reckon we are going to turn a few heads

It will be amazing if you don't.
Every time,& I do mean EVERY time,Carol & I ride the tandem,at some point we experience what I call "the tandem effect".

I hope you have miles of smiles :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Chris S on 09 June, 2014, 08:26:03 pm: Definitely. Everyone loves a tandem.

Wave at children in cars - they love it!

If you get any aggressive beeping on car horns - both wave like you've seen an old friend :)

ETA: Even better, if you manage to catch up with a horn blower, draw alongside, knock on the window and (assuming they open it) say "I thought it was you!!! OH. MY GOD - it must be, what, twenty years since I last saw you. How are you? Has "your problem" cleared up? etc etc...
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: davelodwig on 10 June, 2014, 12:10:35 am: I've been riding mine solo since I've changed the handlebars and controls round to get used to maneuvering in traffic without scaring my partner.

I actually forced a car out of a lane today, it was a small hatchback and he made some comment through the open window about me moving out the way to which I replied, my bikes' longer than your car you move and then preceded to push him across the lane.

Ha might is right and I won.
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Hammerman on 23 June, 2014, 08:24:21 am: After a few short rides of around 10-15 miles, we eventually went out on an all dayer yesterday, in the sun. Managed almost 60 miles, that's the most my wife has done in a very long time. We took our time, overall average was just over 6mph, but our moving average was almost 12. We arrived home, my wife was shattered but in a good way, maybe the weather helped a lot, but I can truely say we are both total converts. We even uttered those immortal words "when we get the next one ". Thanks for all the tips.
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: The French Tandem on 23 June, 2014, 08:59:36 am: The next one might come sooner than you think. We bought our first tandem (second hand) in June 2010. The order for the next tandem was signed for in November of the same year!
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Butterfly on 23 June, 2014, 10:31:03 am: Brilliant! :D
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: clarion on 23 June, 2014, 10:57:32 am: Good stuff. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Hammerman on 04 July, 2014, 11:51:43 pm: Well, I think, as you can see from the photo, that we are truly converts. Photo was taken on a local sportive last weekend, where we managed to do the 50 miler in less than four and a half hours. Mrs H has even perfected the way to put a windproof while still pedaling, I only wish she'd warn me first though lol. thanks again for all the tips and encouragement. Next stop now to try and find an easyish 100km audax, but no rush, next spring perhaps

(https://www.flickr.com/photos/116517836@N08/14388521590)
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Morat on 11 May, 2015, 11:32:46 pm: Quote from: Kim on 14 April, 2014, 12:50:17 pm
Useful stoker skill: Quietly and without comment, ease off the power as the captain drags the cadence away from your comfort point. They'll soon learn to pedal at the right speed. :D

(This sort of mismatch can be solved more permanently and efficiently by differential crank lengths.)

Haha so it's not just me
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: TGS on 16 April, 2016, 03:54:16 pm: Excellent thread, as are many in the Tandems board. I used to be on YACF (almost obsessively!) in 2010-12 as AndyH. (TGS is a resurrection that stands for Teethgrinder Supporter).

Anyway, life got in the way of cycling, most severely after Mrs H's dad died early in 2012 & she suffered from depression. To cut a long story short the amount of time I was out Audaxing became untenable & I gradually got out of the habit of riding my bike.

Last year we went on holiday to Wadebridge & did a couple of rides together on the Camel Trail. This Easter we went again & managed a 26 mile day from Wadebridge to Wenford Bridge at the end of the trail. That was Mrs H's 3rd bike ride in 30 years & as she enjoyed it I begged once more that we try a tandem. Much to my surprise she agreed, although I didn't hold out much hope of getting further than a mile & riding back on my own! After 5 miles she had a big smile. All the disadvantages of a solo were mitigated by the tandem, & it all felt very natural. By the time we got back to Wadebridge we almost looked like we knew what we were doing.

So, deciding to strike while the iron was still hot I've gone and bought this
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CF9_RIJ6ZhG4cIv-wwSXhJfXTidjgmhe9A/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CF9_RIJ6ZhG4cIv-wwSXhJfXTidjgmhe9A/view?usp=sharing)
It's been well cared for and has SPDs on the front, a suspension seatpost & set of decent stoker bars for Mrs H, Schwalbe Marathons. I've adjusted things to suit both of us (longer captain stem, riser stem gone) & tomorrow we're off on our first ride on our own machine. Hopefully another tandem convert!
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Butterfly on 17 April, 2016, 07:29:57 am: Brilliant, have fun!
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: MattJH on 25 April, 2017, 03:01:13 pm: Resurrecting an old thread. Myself and the other half have recently purchased a second hand tandem and have since completed our first 100km audax on it (actually 112km of the Lincoln Imp). Happy to report that it was all smiles at the end and we are still together. :D :thumbsup:

The only issue (and it seems to be a common one) was the difference in cadence between me and her. Has anyone ever tried different sized chainrings on the timing chain to account for this, and if so, what was the result?

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Kim on 25 April, 2017, 03:05:54 pm: Different sized chainrings would mean you'd keep slipping in and out of phase. No idea what that feels like, but I can't imagine it's conducive to harmonious bike handling.

The more conventional work-around is to change the crank length. Shorter cranks are more conducive to pedalling at higher cadences. (Note that while short cranks are Mostly Harmless and just take a bit of getting used to, too long cranks are definitely Bad. So you probably want to shorten the cranks of the slower pedaller, rather than lengthen the cranks of the faster one.)
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 25 April, 2017, 04:39:32 pm: There are a couple of weird tandems (upright or recumbent or both) that allow independent pedalling and/or different gearing between captain and stoker but they are rare.

It is fairly common for upright tandems to have longer 175mm cranks on the front and 170mm on the back. It is possible to fit shorter cranks but there are a few traps for the unwary player to avoid.

The first step is to both riders to compromise on cadence, the faster pedaller consciously pedalling slower and vice versa. It is no compromise if only one person changes.
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: clarion on 26 April, 2017, 10:48:00 am: This is a problem we face. I'm very much a spinner, and Butterfly more a masher, so cadence is either too low for me or too fast for her, and gear changes can be a source of mild disagreement ;D

In reality, we compromise.
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: LittleSkink on 26 April, 2017, 11:53:02 am: lovely thread - not seen this one before :) Learnt a few things and recognise lots of the wisdom here

after over a year of hunting we got our first s/h tandem a few weeks ago - 'we' being myself, 9yo and 11yo. My wife is a reluctant cyclist and not yet convinced - though she did have a spin round the block and came back smiling. Stoker comfort is our #1, we already have a suspension seatpost and upgraded saddle but figure a softer sprung seatpost is needed

the comment from CrinklyLion about "a chatty electric assist" made me smile very much. My 9yo in particular chatters endlessly, waves at everyone, stands up without warning when she's bored and seems to thoroughly enjoy the whole thing - she has yet to store things in my pockets or do an aeroplane but I guess that will come pretty soon . . .

we too have already had the "when we get the next one" conversation - but we will *need* another one as the kids grow (though my wife doesn't yet agree)
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: thing1 on 27 April, 2017, 04:49:52 am: Quote from: clarion on 26 April, 2017, 10:48:00 am
This is a problem we face. I'm very much a spinner, and Butterfly more a masher, so cadence is either too low for me or too fast for her, and gear changes can be a source of mild disagreement ;D

In reality, we compromise.

We used to be similar (me mash, Emma spin). We found that when we both started riding Fixed gear solo bikes (commuting) it helped our tandem compromise a lot -- not just by finding a middle ground but by greatly increasing the range of gears we were each "OK" with.
(And this proved immensely helpful when our Di2 battery ran out on Colorado 1200km a few years back: 200km with <40 rpm on the climbs was not an experience we're keen to repeat!)
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Chris S on 27 April, 2017, 08:21:38 am: Quote from: thing1 on 27 April, 2017, 04:49:52 am
Quote from: clarion on 26 April, 2017, 10:48:00 am
This is a problem we face. I'm very much a spinner, and Butterfly more a masher, so cadence is either too low for me or too fast for her, and gear changes can be a source of mild disagreement ;D

In reality, we compromise.

We used to be similar (me mash, Emma spin). We found that when we both started riding Fixed gear solo bikes (commuting) it helped our tandem compromise a lot -- not just by finding a middle ground but by greatly increasing the range of gears we were each "OK" with.
(And this proved immensely helpful when our Di2 battery ran out on Colorado 1200km a few years back: 200km with <40 rpm on the climbs was not an experience we're keen to repeat!)

We've found that our cadence desires change over the course of a ride. We're pretty closely matched when fresh (quite possibly because we're both fixers too), but when I tire, I start to select bigger and bigger gears and mash them, and fboab wants to spin lighter.

I agree - it's a compromise.

(click to show/hide)
fboab: "That's too fucking big. Change back down. DOWN!"
Title: Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
Post by: Kim on 27 April, 2017, 03:21:14 pm: I've noticed that a captain can be trained to select sensible gears without need for bickering if you simply ease off until such a time as they feel like reverting to a sensible cadence... :demon: