Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => Topic started by: Euan Uzami on 20 April, 2014, 02:26:27 pm
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looking at
http://aukweb.net/results/acpawards/
About the Randonneur 10,000:
- what counts as "1 SUPER RANDONNEE i.e. a permanent of 600 km and at least 10,000 m (32.800 ft) of climbing, homologated by the Audax Club Parisien, ridden in the Randonneur division." ?
When it says a 'permanent' are they talking about what we know as a perm, or is this a calendar event...what would be examples of rides that would satisfy this criteria ?
And when it says
"2 full series of ACP brevets (200, 300, 400, 600 and 1000 km) - Longer brevets cannot be substituted for shorter ones"
does each 'series' have to be in the same year, or can it just be any 2 groupings of 2,3,4,6 and 10 within the 6 year period?
About the brevet 25,000: do all the events adding up to 25,000 have to be BRM?
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The 2, 3, 4, 6 and 10 BRMs have to be done in a year (twice), effectively an extended Super Randonneur series.
All of the Randonneur 25,000 rides have to be BRM, except the Super Randonnee 600 and the various 1200s (which are RM).
The Super Randonnee 600 is a permanent and currently no event in the UK qualifies. All of the SR600 routes overseas have had a lot of input from Sophie Matter.
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The Brevet 25000 is an AUK award and BR events count towards the total as well as BRM. Once the Arrow is validated, I think you just need to complete a ride of over 1300km to claim it. You don't need a ride over 1300km for the AUK Brevet 5000 or ACP Randonneur 5000 though.
BR events don't count towards the ACP awards. You need a series of 200, 300, 400, 600, 1000 completed in 1 year, twice within a six year period towards the ACP Randonneur 10000. The sticking point on that one is the Super Randonnee permanent 600 with 10000m of climbing. It should be doable in the UK though. Three laps of the Full Monty 200 would yield over 12000m of climbing for example, but a trip to a mountainous area of France could be more fun.
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.... Three laps of the Full Monty 200 would yield over 12000m of climbing for example, .....
ahem ....multiple laps of the same course are not permitted, so although it might give you the ascent it is highly unlikely to be accepted as a Super Randonnée 600
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.... Three laps of the Full Monty 200 would yield over 12000m of climbing for example, .....
ahem ....multiple laps of the same course are not permitted, so although it might give you the ascent it is highly unlikely to be accepted as a Super Randonnée 600
I read that as an illustration that the climbing was possible in the UK, not a suggestion that 3 laps should be submitted.
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Climbing would need to be passed by Sophie using open runner
The pendle (though rated by many sites as 10000m of ascent) fails by quite a way.
So, basically, it needs the pendle to find more hills.
Ouch.
Fly to France.
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.... Three laps of the Full Monty 200 would yield over 12000m of climbing for example, .....
ahem ....multiple laps of the same course are not permitted, so although it might give you the ascent it is highly unlikely to be accepted as a Super Randonnée 600
shame, 'cos I wonder if 3 laps of the tregaron dragon would ;D :sick: :sick:
not sure I could do that at all let alone in 50 hours...
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The Brevet 25000 is an AUK award and BR events count towards the total as well as BRM. Once the Arrow is validated, I think you just need to complete a ride of over 1300km to claim it. You don't need a ride over 1300km for the AUK Brevet 5000 or ACP Randonneur 5000 though.
BR events don't count towards the ACP awards. You need a series of 200, 300, 400, 600, 1000 completed in 1 year, twice within a six year period towards the ACP Randonneur 10000. The sticking point on that one is the Super Randonnee permanent 600 with 10000m of climbing. It should be doable in the UK though. Three laps of the Full Monty 200 would yield over 12000m of climbing for example, but a trip to a mountainous area of France could be more fun.
aha - so the Scottish one would give me that potentially then.
Climbing would need to be passed by Sophie using open runner
The pendle (though rated by many sites as 10000m of ascent) fails by quite a way.
So, basically, it needs the pendle to find more hills.
Ouch.
Fly to France.
So that one like you did then are pretty much the only ones... no bad thing - good excuse to do it I suppose!
Saw this page as well which has a little matrix of it, quite interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audax_UK
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Climbing would need to be passed by Sophie using open runner
The pendle (though rated by many sites as 10000m of ascent) fails by quite a way.
So, basically, it needs the pendle to find more hills.
Ouch.
Fly to France.
Open Runner is iffy on total climbs. I recently compared a flat route through the Saverne gap with one that went over the top of the Vosges: the flat one came out at 1200m more. A different routing engine gave the flat one at 800m less.
Va figurer, as they don't say in France.
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Climbing would need to be passed by Sophie using open runner
The pendle (though rated by many sites as 10000m of ascent) fails by quite a way.
So, basically, it needs the pendle to find more hills.
Ouch.
Fly to France.
Open Runner is iffy on total climbs. I recently compared a flat route through the Saverne gap with one that went over the top of the Vosges: the flat one came out at 1200m more. A different routing engine gave the flat one at 800m less.
Va figurer, as they don't say in France.
Well, that is the method ACP have chosen.
On the Pyrenean ride, it actually tallied up very closely.
Open runner rated it at 15000m of ascent, from memory, my magic bleeping box recorded around 14500.
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Climbing would need to be passed by Sophie using open runner
The pendle (though rated by many sites as 10000m of ascent) fails by quite a way.
So, basically, it needs the pendle to find more hills.
Ouch.
Fly to France.
Open Runner is iffy on total climbs. I recently compared a flat route through the Saverne gap with one that went over the top of the Vosges: the flat one came out at 1200m more. A different routing engine gave the flat one at 800m less.
Va figurer, as they don't say in France.
Well, that is the method ACP have chosen.
On the Pyrenean ride, it actually tallied up very closely.
Open runner rated it at 15000m of ascent, from memory, my magic bleeping box recorded around 14500.
Open Runner is the one used by most French clubs. It can tally up pretty closely: it tallied with my Cloudmade/SRTM prog on the over-the-top ride, to within 50m total, but on the flattie it was decidedly wawa.
OR uses Google routing, and I don't know where they get their altitudes. They used to use SRTM, but maybe Google do something else now.
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Their ride, their rules.
Sophie is very helpful and encouraging for anyone considering a Super Randonee.
As far as I know, there are 5 in France, 1 in japan, Germany, Croatia and at least 2 in the us.
I hope to ride another this season. The pain of the last one seems a distant memory and I feel the need to hurt myself again.
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Yup, I messed up. AUK awards don't require BRMs and the Brevet 25,000 is an AUK award. ACP awards don't recognise any non-ACP-homologated brevets, like AUK's BRs.
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Yup, I messed up. AUK awards don't require BRMs and the Brevet 25,000 is an AUK award. ACP awards don't recognise any non-ACP-homologated brevets, like AUK's BRs.
it struck me that the 25000 was an AUK award as it requires a 1300km or longer. ;)
So BRs count, but I presume DIYs/perms don't then - has to be calendars?
What about overdistance i.e. can I use the 'total distance' header at the top of the rides list, or do I have to take the minimum x00 distance?
Mind even worst case scenario I've got 29+78+(100-47)+(96-43) = 213 , so only need 37 more this year to get to 250 and already on 13.
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AUK doesn't care whether rides are calendar or perms, except for the Arrow, though it can be the BR Summer Arrow, rather than the BRM Easter Arrow.
Events are counted at nominal X00km distances, from vague memory.
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Its actually hard to get 10000m of ascent in 600km anywhere in the UK without avoiding gratuitous control points. I played around a lot with maps of Wales a couple of years ago to fulfil a request for a really hard 1000km event and the best I could come up with was the Cambrian 10A.
The other problem then is the level of organisation to get form of manned controls - especially when the time allowance stretches out to 50 hours.
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By it's nature, the control points will be gratuitous.
No real allowances made for manned controls on the super Randonee I did. Only a couple of controls were in or even near a town. The vast majority were photos of the summit boards. A few signposts and other bits and pieces.
Food was a bit of an issue - but that is all part of the fun and challenge.
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By it's nature, the control points will be gratuitous.
No real allowances made for manned controls on the super Randonee I did. Only a couple of controls were in or even near a town. The vast majority were photos of the summit boards. A few signposts and other bits and pieces.
Food was a bit of an issue - but that is all part of the fun and challenge.
When you did it marcus was it organised as a calendar event, or did you just set off doing it off your own bat?
What I'm getting at is, is it ever run as a calendar event?
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There was an Italian calendar 600 brevet called a Super Randonnee a few years ago but I don't know if it counted in ACP's eyes as a SR600. All of the current SR600s are unsupported perms and required to be so. Sophie is a bit fundamentalist that way.
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^ what he says
all perms
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http://www.audax-club-parisien.com/EN/index.php?showpage=421
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There was an Italian calendar 600 brevet called a Super Randonnee a few years ago but I don't know if it counted in ACP's eyes as a SR600. All of the current SR600s are unsupported perms and required to be so. Sophie is a bit fundamentalist that way.
I find that a little surprising. Doesn't Sophie also organise calendar events, and happily ride "softies" events like PBP?
Perhaps she's seen the One True Way now :P
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Sophie's hilly 1000 calendar brevet is unsupported and she asks that riders don't have support. Fundamentalist in my book.
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Hmmm. I'd have thought a bare-bones calendar event would fit her world view - the PERMS restrictions seems rather odd.
(It's all a bit grey isn't it? Presumably riders can book 5* hotels on her 1000 or on the Super600s? That could make the ride "easier" than one done with a support vehicle.)
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Sophie's hilly 1000 calendar brevet is unsupported and she asks that riders don't have support. Fundamentalist in my book.
...true, but (when i did it at least) there were a LOT of secret controls. Didn't go very far without there being a car with its boot open just over the next summit with a camping table with tea and cake set up at the side. It was nice surprise that kept happening again and again! One of the things I liked about it tbh :)
So it's not like she is being mean. :)
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Hmmm. I'd have thought a bare-bones calendar event would fit her world view - the PERMS restrictions seems rather odd.
(It's all a bit grey isn't it? Presumably riders can book 5* hotels on her 1000 or on the Super600s? That could make the ride "easier" than one done with a support vehicle.)
You can book a 5* hotel on any event if you really want, it's just the less time you spend in it, the worse value for money per hour it is.
But if it refreshes you and sets you up well for the next day's riding then it's worth it - but you only need the basics to do that, and if you haven't got time to make use of the 5* facilities then it's probably not worth going for that over a basic hotel.
I'm quite happy to admit having spent about 8-9 hours in a hotel on the 1000. Wasn't against any rules.
I don't think it's about making it harder or easier, I think it's more about only making use of the facilities that are available to the public as standard and not arranging for extra facilities to be there just for you. By having a support vehicle you're basically employing somebody to help you specifically do that ride, but going into a hotel they're not bothered whether you're doing a ride or not, you're just any old customer.
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Not sure whether I should post this question here, or on it's own thread....but anyway. The ACP5000 - do you have to do a BRM1000 in the same year as the 200, 300, 400 and 600? It says you have 4 years to do everything, but then it wouldn't be a series if the 1000 isn't done in the same year, right?
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The ACP Randonneur 5000 does not require the 1000 to be in the same year as the Super Randonneur series (200, 300, 400, 600). Longer brevets cannot be substituted for shorter.
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The ACP Randonneur 5000 does not require the 1000 to be in the same year as the Super Randonneur series (200, 300, 400, 600). Longer brevets cannot be substituted for shorter.
Not sure whether I should post this question here, or on it's own thread....but anyway. The ACP5000 - do you have to do a BRM1000 in the same year as the 200, 300, 400 and 600? It says you have 4 years to do everything, but then it wouldn't be a series if the 1000 isn't done in the same year, right?
But you will need PBP and I assume you (rabbit) are intending to ride that in 2015.
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The ACP Randonneur 5000 does not require the 1000 to be in the same year as the Super Randonneur series (200, 300, 400, 600). Longer brevets cannot be substituted for shorter.
Not sure whether I should post this question here, or on it's own thread....but anyway. The ACP5000 - do you have to do a BRM1000 in the same year as the 200, 300, 400 and 600? It says you have 4 years to do everything, but then it wouldn't be a series if the 1000 isn't done in the same year, right?
But you will need PBP and I assume you (rabbit) are intending to ride that in 2015.
Well, yes, that is the tentative plan. I am not yet sure how far I want to take this Audax thing, but am looking into the options, just in case, you know. If everything in May goes according to plan, I should hopefully have a BRM SR this year, plus the arrow. That will leave me PBP to do next year (I know with another SR) and a 1000 km to do, maybe 2016. I really don't want to go abroad to do it though, wish there was a decent, but doable 1000 km that would be adequate for the ACP in the UK.
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Nice 1000 starting in Cherbourg in July. What could be easier than hopping off ferry, ride, hop back on! I believe LWB and HK are riding the event and it might just suit your needs. https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=67686.0 (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=67686.0)
The 1000 events in UK seem to attract AAA and it has to be BRM which means scarce events.
I do not have the ACP5000 award, but from what others have said, getting the 1000 BRM is the most challenging if you do not wish to travel.
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There are lots of 1000s on the Continent this year and probably next year and probably a couple in the UK in 2016.
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Nice 1000 starting in Cherbourg in July. What could be easier than hopping off ferry, ride, hop back on! I believe LWB and HK are riding the event and it might just suit your needs. https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=67686.0 (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=67686.0)
The 1000 events in UK seem to attract AAA and it has to be BRM which means scarce events.
I do not have the ACP5000 award, but from what others have said, getting the 1000 BRM is the most challenging if you do not wish to travel.
I am just not brave enough to head abroad on my own and ride something like that on my own.
In the UK I am fine with heading anywhere from the top of Scotland down, or Ireland, but definitely not brave enough to head over to a non-English country, with riding on the wrong side of the road, in an area and culture I don't know.
A 1000 BRM in the UK in 2016 would work so fingers crossed!
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France is a civilized country you know it's not, like, tribes ;)
As long as you remember to ride on the right and that the prevalence of 24 hour shops/garages/etc isn't as common as in the UK you'll be fine. Even if you can't speak the language that well.
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France is a civilized country you know it's not, like, tribes ;)
As long as you remember to ride on the right and that the prevalence of 24 hour shops/garages/etc isn't as common as in the UK you'll be fine. Even if you can't speak the language that well.
Well indeed, Je ne parle pas le Francais tres bien
Or even read it that well tbh.
I am more scared that it's too civilised for this rough-English burd haha
TBH it's more if something major happens, an accident, illness or major mechanical.
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So if one would manage to get the ACP version one would always qualify for the AUK
version as well?
But one could alternatively go for the AUK one only by qualifying for and doing BPB and an
Easter arrow, but substituting the 1,000 by any AUK BR or any BRM longer than 1,000?
And then possibly within the four-year window get the ACP one as well by doing any BRM 1,000
(not substitutable by a longer one)?
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Yes, the AUK Brevet 5000 is fairly easy to get, and the ACP version only slightly harder. ACP Randonneur 10000 needs quite a lot of effort though.
A permanent 1000 is ok for the AUK Brevet 5000 and Brevet 25000, but a BRM 1000 is needed for the ACP Randonneur 5000 and Randonneur 10000. Due to scarcity, BRM 1000's in the UK have sold out pretty quickly in the last few years, so you need to enter promptly if you want to ride them, and yes they have also been hilly lately. I quite fancy the idea of riding a BRM 1000 in France or Germany next year and, as there aren't often 1000s in the UK in PBP years, it would mean that my PBP qualifiers wouldn't go to waste in the quest for the ACP Randonneur 10000.
Rabbit, when you have ridden the PBP next year, it will give you more confidence to ride other overseas events and you'll wonder why you were worried about it.
This year it's a BRM 300 that I am struggling to fit in, as I am supposed to be looking after the kids when they are all on. Might have to call in a favour from the grandparents and escape my duties for a day. It's an annoying rule about not being able to substitute longer rides as I am planning a few 400s and 600s.
I will still need a Super Randonnee 600 at some point though for the ACP Randonneur 10000 and it would be nice to go over in a small group to ride one on the continent. I still think the UK is hilly enough though, especially if the Yorkshire Dales and Pennines were combined in one mean 600 :demon:
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Yeah, the ACP 10,000 is hard. I've got enough for the AUK brevet 5000 now and will hopefully have the AUK 25k on completing the scottish 1300 ride, but for the ACP 10k annoyingly I haven't actually got the two full ACP SRs - I would have if you could substitute longer for shorter or if any of the many BR 200s I've done were BRM, but as it is I haven't actually got one. 2,3,4,6 BRM in 2011, and 1,000 BRM in 2012 and 2013 - but no year with both together! Must remember to make sure I get at least one BRM 200 this year....
edit: harder than it sounds - there's only 5! no , 4 in fact in the current year. And one's this weekend which i can't do so that's 3.
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There were, though, 12 BRM 200s in Feb, March, and earlier this month. Wider geographical spread too.
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Reminder - For ACP awards the claim needs to be made via the ACP / LRM correspondent. HK