Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Further and Faster => Topic started by: JohnR on 13 December, 2015, 11:47:20 am
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Trying to raise my cycling efficiency.
Took a test today on the gym bike, don't have access to a watt bike or trainer. Here's the results
Max HR: 169 (I have seen 181 during other workouts)
Max Power: 210W (sustained for 2 minutes)
VO2MAX: 70%? (I think)
Weight: 75Kg
Power to weight: 2.8W/Kg
FTP unknown
Average for my age was the result.
Going to start training to raise my game, but not sure what to start with, possibly base training.
Have got Friel's bible, so perhaps follow this?
Would my FTP be about 200 Watts For Training levels?
Any advice appreciated.
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Two questions:
1. What is your goal?
2. How much time do you have to train?
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Trying to raise my cycling efficiency.
Took a test today on the gym bike, don't have access to a watt bike or trainer. Here's the results
Max HR: 169 (I have seen 181 during other workouts)
Max Power: 210W (sustained for 2 minutes)
VO2MAX: 70%? (I think)
Weight: 75Kg
Power to weight: 2.8W/Kg
FTP unknown
Average for my age was the result.
Going to start training to raise my game, but not sure what to start with, possibly base training.
Have got Friel's bible, so perhaps follow this?
Would my FTP be about 200 Watts For Training levels?
Any advice appreciated.
Based on a max output of 210 watts for two minutes the asnwer would be no. If we was to take the 210w as an anerobic test (usually these are between 3- 5 minutes long) then your FTP would be 65-75% of this figure so (210*.65) and (210*.75) equals a FTP of between 136-158 watts.
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Two questions:
1. What is your goal?
I am not interested in racing,
I would like to be able to ride further, say 200Km + and at a greater speed and climb hills a little quicker. I would like to be able to complete lel 2017 without being lanterns rouge.
2. How much time do you have to train? I can manage an hour or two twice a week after work with a long ride on Sunday.
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Trying to raise my cycling efficiency.
Took a test today on the gym bike, don't have access to a watt bike or trainer. Here's the results
Max HR: 169 (I have seen 181 during other workouts)
Max Power: 210W (sustained for 2 minutes)
VO2MAX: 70%? (I think)
Weight: 75Kg
Power to weight: 2.8W/Kg
FTP unknown
Average for my age was the result.
Going to start training to raise my game, but not sure what to start with, possibly base training.
Have got Friel's bible, so perhaps follow this?
Would my FTP be about 200 Watts For Training levels?
Any advice appreciated.
Based on a max output of 210 watts for two minutes the asnwer would be no. If we was to take the 210w as an anerobic test (usually these are between 3- 5 minutes long) then your FTP would be 65-75% of this figure so (210*.65) and (210*.75) equals a FTP of between 136-158 watts.
The 210watt Max came in at around 160-165 BPM which is where I start heavy breathing and take this to be my ATP. I have maintained a cadence of 90 rpm for over 20 minutes at over 165 BPM in the past.
I will attempt a 20 minute TT on Tuesday night to try and find my FTP, starting around the 158 watt mark and see how I go.
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Without doing a validated test protocol I think estimating your FTP from this could be a bit hit and miss. My best 2 minute power this year is 330W and best 20 minute power is 270W. This from this my FTP is estimated to be in the 250-260W range.
If you could have worked a lot harder in the 2 minute effort then lmt's estimate of your FTP could be too low.
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Two questions:
1. What is your goal?
I am not interested in racing,
I would like to be able to ride further, say 200Km + and at a greater speed and climb hills a little quicker. I would like to be able to complete lel 2017 without being lanterns rouge.
2. How much time do you have to train? I can manage an hour or two twice a week after work with a long ride on Sunday.
OK, then in simple terms I would do the long ride on Sunday at the fastest pace you can manage the distance, if you have a HRM use that to focus on keeping the work rate high enough. Then use the midweek sessions for speed work, e.g. 4x15' choosing a power target that you can only just manage. Knowing you FTP is useful in planning turbo sessions not absolutely necessary if you are happy doing similar sessions, just use trial and error and you soon work out the power that hits the spot. In general the shorter the sessions the higher the output needed for gains.
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I think the weekend outdoor ride should be about building aerobic base - it should be at a lower intensity. I would do the quality work indoors.
The TrainerRoad 'Ask a cycling coach' podcast covers this quite a lot. Usually the recommended starting point is the sweet spot base training program which is typically 3-4 sessions a week with the Sunday session being a long, steady ride and the quality work done during the week with intervals (but at a lower intensity than suggested by PC - more like 85% of FTP). After the base phase they introduce harder work-outs, depending on goal.
If you had more time available to train, in the base phase, they would have you doing 'traditional base' which is more volume, less intensity. From what JohnR has said, it seems to fit a 'sweet spot base' approach best.
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Thanks all for your advice, as you can guess I'm trying to work it all out.
I've read a few articles on ftp work which is where I was coming from with that. The article agreed with SimonP's 85% sweet spot of ftp.
What I'm wondering is if I try doing 60 minute total workouts twice a week comprising of a warm up period followed by 2*20 minute 85% ftp intervals with 4 minutes between at recovery rate and a cool down period.
On the Sunday run (weather permitting) long runs slowly building distance at first keeping HR in my endurance range (from the training levels found by my "test").
If I do these for an initial 6 weeks slowly building up intensities in each workout. Also perhaps a re-test of my ftp each 4 weeks.
How does this sound?
Thanks again for your input.
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JohnR - that sounds like a reasonable approach.
I would suggest you start off with a larger number of shorter intervals. 2x20 is quite tough (depends on your fitness level though). For example, 6 minute intervals with 2 minute recoveries, repeated 6 times. I did something like that the other day. This fits into an hour quite nicely.
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Thanks Simon,
I'll see how I go on Tuesday with my test and try first one on Thursday, if it's looking like I cannot achieve 20 mins I could change to more shorter intervals as you suggest. I need to be a bit hard on myself as it's too easy for me to wimp out.
I'll update with results.
Cheers
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John
I had a bike fit with adrian Timmis and discussed training with him. (I would like to say he is my coach but that would be slightly overstating the case) His formula for sweetspot training is warm up then 3 x10min sessions with a few minutes rest. Start at 85% of FTP and increase by 2-3 watts every time you do the session.
I have not redone my FTP test but feel this gives a good workout which is regularly achievable.
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If you can comfortably ride 200s in 9-10 hours, and be almost completely recovered the next day, you shouldn't have too much trouble with LEL - it's not a particularly tough ride, and being 1400+km, the time limits are generous.
Getting better on hills is nearly all about power:weight, and a little bit about technique.
Surrounding yourself in stats is great if that's what you like - but you really don't need all that to complete LEL (or PBP for that matter, though the latter is harder).
Having said all that, I completed both on a bike with someone else, so I might have a different opinion if I'd ridden them solo! ;)
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If you can comfortably ride 200s in 9-10 hours, and be almost completely recovered the next day, you shouldn't have too much trouble with LEL - it's not a particularly tough ride, and being 1400+km, the time limits are generous.
Getting better on hills is nearly all about power:weight, and a little bit about technique.
Surrounding yourself in stats is great if that's what you like - but you really don't need all that to complete LEL (or PBP for that matter, though the latter is harder).
Having said all that, I completed both on a bike with someone else, so I might have a different opinion if I'd ridden them solo! ;)
Hi Chris, thanks for posting, I have done a few 200's but find the first half goes well but the second half I seem to get slower with my legs not providing much in the way of power up the hills. These usually come in around 11 to 12 hrs and I am tired for a couple of days after these days.
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John
I had a bike fit with adrian Timmis and discussed training with him. (I would like to say he is my coach but that would be slightly overstating the case) His formula for sweetspot training is warm up then 3 x10min sessions with a few minutes rest. Start at 85% of FTP and increase by 2-3 watts every time you do the session.
I have not redone my FTP test but feel this gives a good workout which is regularly achievable.
Hi Chris, this seems a reasonable method, I will give it a go when I've found my ftp from tonight's test.
This also has a way of monitoring improvements by the small increases.
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If you can comfortably ride 200s in 9-10 hours, and be almost completely recovered the next day, you shouldn't have too much trouble with LEL - it's not a particularly tough ride, and being 1400+km, the time limits are generous.
Getting better on hills is nearly all about power:weight, and a little bit about technique.
Surrounding yourself in stats is great if that's what you like - but you really don't need all that to complete LEL (or PBP for that matter, though the latter is harder).
Having said all that, I completed both on a bike with someone else, so I might have a different opinion if I'd ridden them solo! ;)
Hi Chris, thanks for posting, I have done a few 200's but find the first half goes well but the second half I seem to get slower with my legs not providing much in the way of power up the hills. These usually come in around 11 to 12 hrs and I am tired for a couple of days after these days.
Sounds like I used to find things after about 150km. Training does help.
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There are two parts to training for an event like LEL. The first is training the body to optimise its performance and those above are far more qualified to comment about FTP, VO2max et.
The other bit is about training the head and the gut to deal with 4 days in the saddle, without time to properly digest food, and dealing with weather and hills when you are at a psychological low. You may be lucky and find the answer to these challenges straight away but you may find it helps to practice - with some training rides at unusual hours, in the dark, in bad weather, find routes where you are forced over that &*$%* hill at the end when your legs are falling off, or where you have hours of headwinds on the way back. (Not all the time, I hasten to add, that will take all the fun out of cycling that the turbo-trainer hasn't, but so that you have the experience of dealing with tough situations out on the road).
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Well I attempted the test, but I think I'll have to think it out again.
Warm up comprised of 20 min at endurance heart rate 117-137 BPM followed by 3 * 1 min higher resistance with 1 min at endurance rate in between.
Test comprised of 5 minutes high resistance, 10 minutes at endurance rate. Then the 20 minutes test increasing the resistance each 5 minutes maintaining 100 rpm.
Only managed 10 minutes before legs began fading, so cut back to endurance rate. Min 150 watts, Max 190 watts, average 170? Heart rate was 176 BPM, which wasn't the problem, just the legs buckling. More attempts at the test should familiarise me to them in future. Perhaps my useable ftp could be 160 watts?
Think I'll try some more intervals until I can find a suitable rate I can maintain for 20 minutes. Continued cycling and seems I may be able to maintain around 160 watts with my heart rate around 165 BPM, just in my anaerobic threshold but OK.
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There are two parts to training for an event like LEL. The first is training the body to optimise its performance and those above are far more qualified to comment about FTP, VO2max et.
The other bit is about training the head and the gut to deal with 4 days in the saddle, without time to properly digest food, and dealing with weather and hills when you are at a psychological low. You may be lucky and find the answer to these challenges straight away but you may find it helps to practice - with some training rides at unusual hours, in the dark, in bad weather, find routes where you are forced over that &*$%* hill at the end when your legs are falling off, or where you have hours of headwinds on the way back. (Not all the time, I hasten to add, that will take all the fun out of cycling that the turbo-trainer hasn't, but so that you have the experience of dealing with tough situations out on the road).
Hi cet, I am aware of the psychological and dietary challenges of long rides. I found out on my first 200 when I was constantly thinking how far there was left to go, which was messing with my head. Until I figured out to treat the distance between controls as a separate bike ride, which did the trick. Now I have to sort out my fitness and eating on the bike.
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http://www.hunterallenpowerblog.com/2013/01/what-is-ftp.html
Here's Hunter Allen's FTP protocol.
The 20 minute test ( 5. ) is on the turbo or ergometer simulating flat road or very slight incline ( eg 0.5% ). The turbo's own road curve takes care of the power absorption. No need to adjust resistance levels during the test.
The power curve of the dyno should be known. Kurt Kinetic Rock&Roll road machine is the jobbie. Fit a pro flyweel to give inertia sim' on initial acceleration and the distance in 20 minutes off your bike computer will give you the average speed, and reading off KK's curve, the resultant Watts.
A 'proper' FTP test is over 60 minutes, simulating a 1 hour ride round a velodrome.
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Hi Ningers,
I pointed out at the beginning I don't have any equipment other than a gym bike on which to do this kind of training on where to simulate road riding conditions you have to adjust the resistance and/or the cadence to achieve the required watts, I would like better equipment but don't have means to acquire them atm.
I used that article to do my "test" which it states the actual test is only a 20 minute window in the whole time which is used to approximate the 60 minute time trial which is what others seem to be doing. I was on the bike for 1.5 hours in total.
As this is new to me I don't yet know where my limits are which is what I'm trying to find out by trial and error to find a reasonable starting point for my winter training in the gym when I can't get out on the bike.
I agree with what you say, I just have to make the best of what I have available to me.
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In view of my rather dismal effort at the test, I thought I'd probably be better to start out low and build up over a few weeks, so did 45 mins today at EZ-MO HR Zone.
Level Watts End HR Cadence Zone Time
6 102 125 80 2 20 Mins
7 114 142 80 3 25 Mins
That was easy enough.
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Tommy Godwin, Olympic medallist 1948, said,,
“No-one ever got good by taking it easy.”
;)
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Let's call it a bit of base building, to get any mitochondria that's there to grow, just a little please.
It'll build, promise.
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In view of my rather dismal effort at the test, I thought I'd probably be better to start out low and build up over a few weeks, so did 45 mins today at EZ-MO HR Zone.
Level Watts End HR Cadence Zone Time
6 102 125 80 2 20 Mins
7 114 142 80 3 25 Mins
That was easy enough.
You need to work on your endurance, an extra 12 watts should not see an increase in HR such as the above.
Do a coupling test. Ride at a power which is lowish Zone 2, do this for an hour. If your HR has increased by more than 5% frm start to fiinish then you'd need to do more base work before doing intervals.
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I think you're right, I'm reading Friel, who states similar to you, but he says to do the coupling test at aerobic threshold for 2 hours!
I will take a coupling test as you suggested, thanks.
Edit: 124watts is nearly 12% increase from 102watts which corresponds to a heart rate of 140bpm (125 plus 12%) plus a bit for possible cardiac drift as the gym is reasonably warm and I was sweating more at the end. IIRC most of the second half at the increased watts was done at a heart rate of around 135bpm.
Will make a graph of the test measuring heart rate at 5 min. intervals to check this.
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Base Ride Z2.
3 Hrs in Zone2 3 Laps totalling 53Km.
Max HR 150bpm, Min 109bpm, Avge 138bpm.
Nice easy ride, had to watch it I didn't go over my zone though. Seems my aerobic threshold is around 135 - 140bpm as I could talk easily at this range.
https://www.strava.com/activities/453426805/overview
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Exercising at those levels of cardiac stress is conditioning your system to burn fat instead of carbs.
Doing this on a real bike out on the road ( long commuting ) without any specific nutrition for the exercise will show you results by reducing your bodyweight. It will seem easier to climb hills at the same speed, or you will be able to climb hills quicker.
On a gym bike, you will not see this advantage except when you need to punch in a lower kg value at startup. This will adjust the kCals calculation on the machine for the %incline the machine is simulating.
To achieve muscular hypertrophy, cardiovascular and pulmonary improvement, you MUST exercise at a level higher than experienced before.
This only needs to be five minutes at an intensity 1% more than last achievable.
Hunter Allen’s ‘5 minutes all out’ ( section 3. ) prior to the test does exactly this.
If you want gains, you must do this. If you ride Hunter Allen’s FTP protocol and miss out the 20 minute TT, you will see gains. The 20 min TT is a performance metric.
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OK, but all the books I've read say you shouldn't exercise at a high level without conditioning the slow twitch fibres first which is long slow distances/time at zone 2/3 which encourages mitochondria and blood capillary growth to produce more power lower down the heart rate range. Isn't this why everyone does lots of this type of exercise in winter, base endurance?
According to Friel, you shouldn't do interval or higher intensity exercising before you can do the coupling test at aerobic level with a cardiac drift of no more than 5%, which is achieved by long slow distances in this zone.
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I feel the need to explain my understanding of muscle physiology and exercise.
Muscles are made up of 2 fibre types, slow twitch and fast twitch of varying proportions.
Slow twitch fibres:
They are smaller than fast twitch and weaker.
They are made up of tiny mitochondria fed by tiny blood capillaries and burn mostly body fat for fuel. They need plenty of oxygenated blood to burn it.
They are the first fibres to be recruited when exercising until they cannot perform the task when fast twitch fibres take over.
They are the endurance fibres, slow and steady progress.
When specifically exercised, they grow more mitochondria over time, to produce more power.
To specifically exercise them, we need to have the intensity low so as not to recruit fast twitch fibres which means our heart rate will be low.
Fast twitch fibres:
They are larger than slow twitch and stronger.
They use ATP stored in them and the liver at first for fuel but run out after about 2 hours, this means we have to keep eating to fuel them for longer periods.
They can work without oxygen for short periods (anaerobic).
They are the workhorse fibres to sprint or get you up that hill etc.
When exercised, they grow in size and use more ATP.
To exercise them we need to increase the intensity to recruit them which means our heart rate will rise, switching from fat burning to more ATP burning, and more eating.
Most cycling is endurance and therefore should use the slow twitch fibres predominantly, sparing the fast twitch for the hills etc. It follows then we should train mostly the slow twitch fibres which, in turn means long slow rides at low intensities with a low heart rate.
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Long Steady Distance on a simple turbo trainer.
Switch on the 16” pedestal fan in front of the bike.
Load a good movie DVD into DVD player.
Ride along slowly at first breathing in through the nose only, gaining speed and resistance until long deep inhalations are necessary through the nose only when the bike is at 15 mph. Back off so a determined but unstrained breathing can be achieved through the nose only. Choose the gear ratio which gives you a comfortable cadence.
Reach for DVD player remote control and start the movie.
Remain at the speed and resistance for the duration. If you have to laugh because it’s a comedy film, don’t alter your riding speed or resistance, but return to ‘NOSE ONLY’ breathing when laughter ceases.
:thumbsup:
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;D
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Try this.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Carry-On-The-Ultimate-Collection/dp/B001CWLFJ0
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JohnR - have a look at the training adaptions table on this page at TrainingPeaks.
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/power-training-levels
Hypertrophy of slow twitch muscle fibres is best achieved according to them in zone 5. The fast twitch fibre hypertrophy doesn't appear in the table at all below zone 6.
Fast twitch fibres are unlikely to be developed in any meaningful way by cycling. For that you need weight training. Which will compromise endurance most likely. It can be beneficial for other reasons particularly bone density.
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JohnR - have a look at the training adaptions table on this page at TrainingPeaks.
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/power-training-levels
Hypertrophy of slow twitch muscle fibres is best achieved according to them in zone 5. The fast twitch fibre hypertrophy doesn't appear in the table at all below zone 6.
Fast twitch fibres are unlikely to be developed in any meaningful way by cycling. For that you need weight training. Which will compromise endurance most likely. It can be beneficial for other reasons particularly bone density.
“Furthermore, there is obviously an inverse relationship between power output and the duration that power can be sustained.”
Yup. David Gordon Wilson and Frank Whitt sussed this out with co-operation from N.A.S.A. in the 1960s.
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For that you need weight training. Which will compromise endurance most likely.
Yet Friel in every book he has written explains that weight training is essential for the cyclist. Hutch in one of his books (Faster) tells a story of David Millars training with big sets of squats interspersed with fast efforts on the turbo. Recent blogs from Sky show significant gym work.
I am sorry Ning but that statement is nonsense.
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Don't blame Ning for that statement - it came from me. I think weight training has improved my explosive power. I doubt it's increased my climbing ability on long climbs as it's made me heavier but I'm a lot faster on short sharp climbs. Afaik froome does bodyweight squats. https://m.facebook.com/froomechristopher/posts/860794173976751 - significantly different to the type of weight training that would induce fast twitch hypertrophy.
When I increased training volume for PBP this year I had to stop the weight training entirely as the total training load was way too high to accommodate it.
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Sorry, my overall day irritation led me to be rude and abrupt.
I think it may also be about where you are in the training cycle. Friel clearly recommends it in the base and early season phases but reducing during the racing season.
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JohnR - have a look at the training adaptions table on this page at TrainingPeaks.
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/power-training-levels
Hypertrophy of slow twitch muscle fibres is best achieved according to them in zone 5. The fast twitch fibre hypertrophy doesn't appear in the table at all below zone 6.
Fast twitch fibres are unlikely to be developed in any meaningful way by cycling. For that you need weight training. Which will compromise endurance most likely. It can be beneficial for other reasons particularly bone density.
Had a look at this, seems I'm old skool. Will do a couple test followed by a ftp test attempt before I get started.
When I re-started riding again 3 years ago my heart rate soon went up to 165 BPM and stayed there the whole ride. Fitness soon went up.
I'll do the threshold exercises first time after above tests.
I have one leg much weaker than the other due to an old rtc injury, so I am doing single leg presses to try and bring the weak leg up to scratch also.
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Sorry, my overall day irritation led me to be rude and abrupt.
I think it may also be about where you are in the training cycle. Friel clearly recommends it in the base and early season phases but reducing during the racing season.
No apology needed. What I should have said is training for type ii hypertrophy (which generally requires heavy weight lifting at low reps) would compromise endurance. Weight lifting at higher rep ranges emphasises type I aiui and I can see that it could be beneficial. Also weight training has other uses; I have fewer knee problems since I took it up.
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Which statement?
The quote in speech marks taken from TrainingPeaks ??
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Coupling Test
Set gym bike to constant watts of 116, period 60 minutes.
Cadence throughout was 90 to maintain target watts.
Heart rate noted every 2 minute intervals and plotted on graph.
Results show for the duration when heart rate levelled off drift between last half and first half was 3%, so good to go!
Also found out my right leg (the weaker one) appears to take a back seat as sometimes the watts fell to 110 watts momentarily despite constant cadence, this went back up every time to 116 watts when I consciously made my right leg put more effort into the test. This is probably happening when riding. More strengthening of my right leg is needed to match both legs I think.
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5793/23557776609_50f8c5a63f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/BTHLfe)Coupling (https://flic.kr/p/BTHLfe) by reynolds.john48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/130881746@N04/), on Flickr
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Single leg focus drills may help to work on that. You spend a few minutes at a time focusing on one leg or the other. The opposite leg is still working.
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FTP Test attempt 2
Now that our leccy's back on after the floods, here we go:
After the warm up, started out with a power I could hold and increased each 5 minutes until max was reached.
Initial 130 watts, increased to 167 watts and held this for the last 10 minutes with a terminal heart rate of 173 bpm.
I think I could have increased the watts up a tad more, but will use this as my start point.
So this gives me a start ftp of 141 watts, rather low by comparisons to most but it's a start, now onto some interval work based on this.
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The way I trained both legs to work equal was to warm-up as usual, and then sprint 'balls out' in 'speed control' for as long as possible. The Wattage of course starts big ( >700 ) and tails off after a minute or so. Keep going until both legs can't move.
When the dominant leg starts to give up, the other gets trained from then on.
'Speed control' on an ergometer is where the resistance automatically increases and decreases so the rider keeps the same cadence, which is selected before the test.
'Load control' is where a Wattage is selected and the machine lets the rider's cadence increase and decrease to maintain the Wattage. If the rider gives some oomph, cadence will increase and pedal force decreases. This is useful for doing tests to assess HR vs cadence for a constant Wattage. Must be done first to plot a 3D surface chart of HR, Cadence and Wattage. Then you know what cadence gives you WattMax for HRMin.
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FTP Test attempt 2
Now that our leccy's back on after the floods, here we go:
After the warm up, started out with a power I could hold and increased each 5 minutes until max was reached.
Initial 130 watts, increased to 167 watts and held this for the last 10 minutes with a terminal heart rate of 173 bpm.
I think I could have increased the watts up a tad more, but will use this as my start point.
So this gives me a start ftp of 141 watts, rather low by comparisons to most but it's a start, now onto some interval work based on this.
Are you sure this is right? And how long have you been riding?
I only say and ask because 141w as a FTP is very low, if you take the weight of an average male of 75kg then this would mean a w/kg of 1.88 which ranks amongst the untrained riders. Which I can't believe you'd (or anyone else) would be if you have ridden a bike for some time and done some miles.
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FTP Test attempt 2
Now that our leccy's back on after the floods, here we go:
After the warm up, started out with a power I could hold and increased each 5 minutes until max was reached.
Initial 130 watts, increased to 167 watts and held this for the last 10 minutes with a terminal heart rate of 173 bpm.
I think I could have increased the watts up a tad more, but will use this as my start point.
So this gives me a start ftp of 141 watts, rather low by comparisons to most but it's a start, now onto some interval work based on this.
[/quonow
Are you sure this is right? And how long have you been riding?
I only say and ask because 141w as a FTP is very low, if you take the weight of an average male of 75kg then this would mean a w/kg of 1.88 which ranks amongst the untrained riders. Which I can't believe you'd (or anyone else) would be if you have ridden a bike for some time and done some miles.
Yes I am surprised how low it is. I've been cycling now for 3 years following a long lay off. Just recently my hip gave way, ensuring I was incapacitated for about 6 weeks which has meant a total loss of strength in my right leg (the weak one).
Prior to this, I was able to do quite intense intervals on the bike, along with 200km audaxes etc. I could have increased the intensity on the test near the end but chose not to as my Max heart rate is 180 BPM.
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Wk 1 Session 1
65 Mins total, 10 mins warm up & cool down.
4 x 8mins @ ftp (144 Watts) HR 157,160,163,164
3 x 4 mins recovery (80 watts) HR 135,137,138
Remainder cool down.
Session felt fairly easy, could have done more. Breathing beginning to labour. No burning in legs (never really do feel this no matter how hard it is).
Concentrated in making weaker leg do it's fair share of the work. Beginning to think this leg is my limiting factor in ftp test as it is this leg which falters first. Only fairly light dull ache in legs after workout, shouldn't his be harder?
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I've just done a VO2max workout. 6x3mins @ 115% FTP and 4x2 mins at 130% FTP. This is challenging and I have a lot of the burn. But immediately afterwards I'm fine. So I don't expect that you need to feel ****ed after a workout to know it did some good.
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I will continue with this regime, decreasing recovery time until it is zero, giving me a solid 32 minutes @ ftp and see how I go.
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A lot of testers swear by 2*20 mins at FTP or a little over. Also try hour of power, trying to maintain FTP for the whole hour.
This Winter my sessions are less intense but longer duration. I can feel them afterwards, but recover quickly. Try not to make sessions so hard that you compromise the next one.
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THE most important part of any cycle power testing is the warm-up phase.
“Warm up”, a bit of a misnomer. Should be ‘Pulmonary and Vascular dilatory’ up.
Difficult to measure. Comes with experience, or hiring a qualified PTI.
For a start off, ride at 65% HRMax for an hour. If your FTP from the 20 minute test significantly increases, cut the “Warm up” by five minutes each test until you reach a point where the test feels more rigorous for no reason. When this happens, add five minutes to the “Warm up”, because the test felt more rigorous 'cus you weren't 'warmed up' dilated enough.
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Week 1 Session 2
Following last session, I decided to incorporate a few suggestions;
Increased warm up to 30 mins @ 80W. (Ningers)
Did 2 x 16 mins @ ftp (144 W) with 4 mins recovery in between (80 W). (Rob)
Total duration was 85 mins all remainder done at recovery.
During 2 x 16 mins HR was 163, 145, 167 bpm. (the last reading happened in the last few minutes of the session, prior it was 163)
Noticed difference in breathing this time, it was less heavier than last time, more comfortable. No burning sensations as usual and after shower, legs feel as though not much has happened, but I will bear in mind what SimonP said earlier.
Still a Zone 5 workout.
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wk1 bike ride 55Km
This is the first ride this year, I'll use this as my test ride for comparisons going forward.
Avge hr 155, Max 166.
Avge speed 20km/hr
https://www.strava.com/activities/461964708/overview
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WK 2 session 1
After the prescribed warm up, did 20 mins @ avge 162 watts (hr peaked at 168 BPM).
Followed by 10 mins @ recovery 80 watts and further 10 minutes @ 162 watts (hr 168 Max) and cool down.
Observations are that my unequal leg strength is having more of an effect. When my cadence gets above 95 rpm, power gets erratic and is difficult to maintain reasonable stable cadence. Had to raise resistance and lower cadence to 92 rpm to maintain steady power.
Legs feel like they have done a reasonable workout, still no burn. Breathing heavy ish. I think my cardiovascular system is better developed than my leg strength/ power looking at my end hr.
May try a Max effort intervals session on Thursday for variety.
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You are now learning that technique is everything.
Don’t thrash at the strings and hope the sound is pleasant. Learn some chords and how to strum slowly and gently.
:thumbsup:
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You are now learning that technique is everything.
Don’t thrash at the strings and hope the sound is pleasant. Learn some chords and how to strum slowly and gently.
:thumbsup:
Yes I'm certainly learning a thing or two of myself and technique, maybe I'll be able to join an orchestra soon :)
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You are now learning that technique is everything.
Don’t thrash at the strings and hope the sound is pleasant. Learn some chords and how to strum slowly and gently.
:thumbsup:
Yes I'm certainly learning a thing or two of myself and technique, maybe I'll be able to join an orchestra soon :)
For joining an orchestra, look at British Cycling's calendar of closed circuit races. This Saturday at Lee Valley Cycle Circuit.
You will need to be a BC member. 4th Cat Mens at 13:20. 45 minutes + 5 laps.
In the day, they were called 'Criterium' races. Good fun. Lots of drafting and elbows. :thumbsup:
A bit like a motor cycle circuit race but human powered.
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I think I'm a bit old for that malarky.
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wk2 session 2
Thought I'd try a Max effort session for a change.
3 x 1 min with 1 min rest at maximum effort after warm up.
1st was 266 watts @158 BPM
2nd was 266 watts @164 BPM
3rd was 271 watts for first half, dropping to 266 watts @174 bpm.Still no burn in muscles. Cardiovascular and left leg could have carried on.
My weaker right leg started to give way @ half way on the last effort, so cadence dropped back to 102 rpm from 104 rpm no matter how hard I tried.
I am more convinced my right leg is limiting my performance, more work needed.
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wk2 session 3
20 min @ ftp (162 watts) hr 163 ending in 165 zone 5. Hr slightly less than previous.
Legs a nice salmon could, especially right leg as it had to do it's fair share of the work.
Other commitments prevented a bike ride today.
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FTP is your 20 minute average Wattage x 0.95.
A 20 minute session should be FTP / 0.95. At least.
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Started out with 167 watts selected on the gym bike (taking my ftp to be around 158 watts), but for some reason it was "dancing around" for want of a better term between 171 and 157 watts despite me holding a reasonably constant cadence, so I've simply called it 162 watts average in order for my "comparison". This was probably due to my un balanced legs but I will use a different bike in future just to be sure it's not that.