Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => The Knowledge => Topic started by: Torslanda on November 09, 2016, 04:20:44 pm

Title: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Torslanda on November 09, 2016, 04:20:44 pm
I know we've probably done this before but, for the 5th or 6th time this year, a customer has brought a bike in for service with the rear wheel rim cracked around the spoke holes.

'It just needs truing'.
'Er, no. It needs mending with a new one!'

So here is a heartfelt plea, to those of you who care, to look a little further than the given wheel weight on the advert, the spoke count and the flash graphics.

If you're six foot five and the wrong side of 100kg then LOTS of spokes is better than not enough, eyelets are generally better than none and there's no real point in having a hissy fit* when you ignore that advice and discover that an 800g [maker redacted] rear wheel is not going to survive a Winter on British roads. The cost just goes up.

This has been Yet Another Blindingly Obvious Public Information message.

*Especially if that hissy fit is directed at me. I didn't sell you the wheels.
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: sojournermike on November 09, 2016, 04:54:41 pm
Yes indeed. A colleague notices the **9000 hubs in my post box and mentioned he had one spare front - after having to replace his buckled factory wheel... Pity they have only 18 straight pull spokes and are, in practice, neither robust nor afforbably repairable.

Also, to get a rear down to 800g, you need a light hub, few spokes and a light and, therefore, thin rim. My rear will weigh around 920g, so sub 800 is a lot of metal to lose.

Mike
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Torslanda on November 09, 2016, 05:05:30 pm
Should've woven the phrase 'or whatever' into the OP but you catch my drift . . .
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: drossall on November 09, 2016, 11:23:52 pm
I've recently built a nice pair of traditional, cross-3 Ultegra 32s to replace the factory wheels that came from my road bike, and that kept breaking spokes. I only exceed one of Torslanda's boundaries, but you can guess which.
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: The French Tandem on November 10, 2016, 05:51:55 am
If you're six foot five and the wrong side of 100kg then LOTS of spokes is better than not enough, eyelets are generally better than none and there's no real point in having a hissy fit* when you ignore that advice and discover that an 800g [maker redacted] rear wheel is not going to survive a Winter on British roads. The cost just goes up.

That's the magics of Marketing Science! You build a wheel for cheaper by using fewer spokes and a thinner rim, and because it is lighter, you can sell it for more ££ ;D ;D ;D

In order to protect the builder from lawsuits, it is probably stated somewhere in the manual, in tiny letters, that the wheel is not suitable for riders over 80kg, but who reads the manual?
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: aidan.f on November 10, 2016, 09:12:20 am
 I think the op should be a sticky!
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Morat on November 10, 2016, 10:22:32 am
As someone who buys a 61cm frame I find it a bit ridiculous that bikes come with the same wheels across the size range.
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Karla on November 10, 2016, 11:41:13 am
I think the op should be a sticky!

OTOH I'm pretty sure you'd be fine on just about any wheels you rode.

And no, my Corima 12 spoke front still hasn't broken or gone out of true, years after I bought it.
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Samuel D on November 10, 2016, 12:02:56 pm
Peter White across the pond has an amusing ‘Wheel Rant’ about this here (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/wheels.php).
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Torslanda on November 10, 2016, 11:36:17 pm
Peter White across the pond has an amusing ‘Wheel Rant’ about this here (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/wheels.php).

Thank you. I've just shared that on my FB bike shop page.
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Kim on November 10, 2016, 11:40:07 pm
I'm a big fan of carrying a few spare spokes on the bike, and between hub and rim is an extremely practical place to mount them...
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: sojournermike on November 10, 2016, 11:41:13 pm
I'm a big fan of carrying a few spare spokes on the bike, and between hub and rim is an extremely practical place to mount them...

Indeed, you can always tighten them up if some of the others fail eh?
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: phantasmagoriana on November 11, 2016, 07:23:19 am
Peter White across the pond has an amusing ‘Wheel Rant’ about this here (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/wheels.php).

Thank you. I've just shared that on my FB bike shop page.

Interesting that he calls Open Pros "rims for racing bikes" - I use them on my old winter bike, albeit 36-spoke of course.
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: toestrap on November 11, 2016, 08:31:50 am
The biggest marginal* gain I can make is to lose a stone or two. Knowing this has an avantage; I can happily ignore highly expensive bike components that might save a few extra grams and spend the money on tea and cake.......


*I might be stretching the meaning of the word marginal
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Hot Flatus on November 11, 2016, 08:54:33 am
Lightweight wheels are great. Racing bikes are great, regardless of whether you race or not. Peter White's views contain some bigotry. Its not his place to tell people what sort of bikes people are entitled to ride. He can advise heavy people to choose equipment that can support their weight, after that it is up to them.

Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: jsabine on November 11, 2016, 09:40:04 am
He does say he'll build whatever wheels you want, just that he won't give a lifetime warranty if you make choices contrary to his advice.

Anyway, it's a deliberately opinionated piece.
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Brucey on November 11, 2016, 09:41:00 am
Lightweight wheels are great. Racing bikes are great, regardless of whether you race or not. Peter White's views contain some bigotry. Its not his place to tell people what sort of bikes people are entitled to ride. He can advise heavy people to choose equipment that can support their weight, after that it is up to them.

Peter White's views are not 'bigoted'.  He will build any wheel that his customers want him to. However if he thinks the parts are being used outside of their intended range, he will advise against it and he won't offer his usual 'guaranteed for ever' warranty.

 I don't know what else you would expect him to do, unless you think he should just bite his lip when a 250lb gorilla wants to ride on the lightest possible wheels, which will surely break in a short while; this wouldn't be just stupid, it'd be dangerous.

BTW although it is the most obvious thing, isn't just a question of weight, either; it is a question of power and pedalling style too.  I used to race at ~70kg and I used to break stuff. [Having said that I didn't break as much stuff as one of my chums who was the same weight, same power output, less smooth pedalling style.] These days I'm heavier but also less powerful, (sadly..)... however whilst the silver lining is that I break fewer wheels than I used to; now, I seem to break frames instead... ;D

cheers
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Hot Flatus on November 11, 2016, 10:16:05 am
"If you're not racing, what the heck are you doing with a racing bike?" .......is bigotry. Most racing bikes are not used for racing, but nevertheless enjoyed enormously.

He's right to tell people about wheels and to not guarantee them, but after that it is up to the customers to decide how to spend their money.

Hes got a bit of the audax mentality with regards to equipment.



Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Karla on November 11, 2016, 10:39:55 am
Peter White across the pond has an amusing ‘Wheel Rant’ about this here (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/wheels.php).

Thank you. I've just shared that on my FB bike shop page.

Interesting that he calls Open Pros "rims for racing bikes" - I use them on my old winter bike, albeit 36-spoke of course.

... and if you go down to the local crit circuit to see how many Open Pros you can spot, it won't be many.  The attitude of "I'm a slow cyclist so I need to buy equipment that makes me even slower" is a curious one.
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Brucey on November 11, 2016, 10:46:08 am
"If you're not racing, what the heck are you doing with a racing bike?" .......is bigotry. Most racing bikes are not used for racing, but nevertheless enjoyed enormously....
 

If you walk into a bike shop and mutter about 'wanting to go for a ride on the weekend', or read any one of a number of cycling  magazines, online sources etc you are very likely to be pointed towards something that looks like a racing bike (warts and all) these days. Herd mentality alert!

  I happen to think that Peter White is absolutely correct in simply asking people to question their motivations when they 'choose' to buy such a machine; goodness knows, hardly anyone else will!

I like riding a lightweight machine as much as the next chap/chapess, but I wouldn't have one as my only bike unless I was racing. The sad fact is that most leisure riders/commuters  would be better off with something else other than a 'road bike' and they wouldn't necessarily be any slower etc either...

Quote
He's right to tell people about wheels and to not guarantee them, but after that it is up to the customers to decide how to spend their money.


and that is exactly what happens, so I don't see the problem...?

Quote
Hes got a bit of the audax mentality with regards to equipment.
I'm not sure I know what such a thing is....  also, er, could that statement possibly be....

some form of....

bigotry...?

 :'( ;D

cheers
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: The French Tandem on November 11, 2016, 10:51:25 am
... and if you go down to the local crit circuit to see how many Open Pros you can spot, it won't be many. 

There were many of them when I was racing crits in the late 1980's/ early 90's. Things may have changed since then  :)

The attitude of "I'm a slow cyclist so I need to buy equipment that makes me even slower" is a curious one.

I do not think that if your weight is over 100 kg, a 100g heavier wheel will make you any slower. That's just a 0.1% weight increase. On the other hand, being stuck 100km from home with a broken wheel will make you much, much slower!
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: chrisbainbridge on November 11, 2016, 11:57:13 am
This predominantly male desire to have better and faster, sharper, bigger has been around for ever.  Why does any commuter need more than a hybrid smart car? Yet some will want a Porsche and some will be the sole occupant of a range rover that can seat a small army!

I agree with the warning regarding longevity of the wheels but riding a bike designed to be fast (even with my low power) is a feeling of joy which I do not get from my steel fixed gear commuter.  I totally accept that my speed is not significantly different but the feelings are very different.
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Dickyelsdon on November 11, 2016, 11:57:22 am
Quote
I do not think that if your weight is over 100 kg, a 100g heavier wheel will make you any slower. That's just a 0.1% weight increase. On the other hand, being stuck 100km from home with a broken wheel will make you much, much slower!

Maybe not, but as a 95kg rider going from 1800g wheels to 1700g does make difference to feel.  Sure I can go out on the Saturday fast club run with my Surly LHT with mudguards and ill keep up fine and even enjoy being out, but a light carbon bike with light wheels feels SO much more fun and gives a very different enjoyment.

Ive snapped only a handful in the last 10 years, despite also riding DH mtb on rims lighter than what most seem to think are needed for road riding.  Most recent spoke snap was a bladed spoke on a light fulcrum wheel but it was still true enough to ride with the brake engaged and it only snapped as id damaged it getting it tangles with another bike in the garage many months before.  The rims only have a few k left in them anyway.
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: velosam on November 11, 2016, 12:20:42 pm
This predominantly male desire to have better and faster, sharper, bigger has been around for ever.  Why does any commuter need more than a hybrid smart car? Yet some will want a Porsche and some will be the sole occupant of a range rover that can seat a small army!

I agree with the warning regarding longevity of the wheels but riding a bike designed to be fast (even with my low power) is a feeling of joy which I do not get from my steel fixed gear commuter.  I totally accept that my speed is not significantly different but the feelings are very different.

+1.

I love the way racing bikes and even mtb looks, stripped down and going fast standing still.  The fact that I can do justice to neither doesn't come down to it.  And lighter more responsive bikes are more fun even on the commute even though they are not as practical (I am thinking mudguards more than anything else).

On my sample of one, changing the wheels on a kaffenback to something nicer (albeit still 32 spoked) made a world of difference to how the bike felt. If I had to quantify it turned me from thinking this is rubbish, to this is OK.
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Plug1n on November 11, 2016, 12:39:26 pm
Interesting that he calls Open Pros "rims for racing bikes" - I use them on my old winter bike, albeit 36-spoke of course.

Ditto.  In fact I built one last weekend because my sciatica is finally improving but I've put on about 10kg, so now at the 100kg mark :(

Also, I've found 28mm tyre to be fine on Open Pro.
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Hot Flatus on November 11, 2016, 12:45:42 pm
Im always amused by the people who say a given bike wont be faster than another given bike.

Im even more amused by it since I purchased a power meter (which also measures wind resistance) and compared commutes on different machines.

It just tells me what I already knew. 

On my commute it isnt a huge issue. On a 200k audax it can be the difference between winning and losing.

Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Exit Stage Left on November 11, 2016, 01:05:07 pm
I'm always amused when people are trying to track down a bike shop 40 miles from the nearest town to buy a new wheel, when I'm carrying spokes to retrue a conventional wheel.

Mainly I'm amused at myself, managing to say soothing words to an idiot.
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Dickyelsdon on November 11, 2016, 01:14:13 pm
I'm always amused when businesses manage to survive despite completely misunderstanding what their customers want  ;D
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Chamford Sideplate on November 11, 2016, 01:52:12 pm
The upshot of "high spoke count good, low spoke count bad" orthodoxy that discounts rider weight, wheel rim, spoke, hub and build quality and component age is people at the start of Audaxes asking what you're going to do if you break a spoke. That can be annoying though it's probably meant well.
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: zigzag on November 11, 2016, 03:25:41 pm
comparing the wheelsets i ride, they make a massive difference to how the bike feels depending on their weight and spoke type and count.

lightweight (1.4kg) wheels with aero spokes - bliss, bike is so responsive and just floats over the road. with the heaviest (at 2.6kg) wheels the bike feels like a tank, however it's not that much slower overall*, only climbs ~10% longer and takes a little while to accelerate.

as long as riders are aware and accept the risks that lighter wheels may break more often i see no reason why they should be told to only ride overbuilt and uninspiring wheels.

*at risk of sounding braggadocious i've finished a couple of 200k audaxes on it in 7:xx hrs.
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Frank9755 on November 11, 2016, 09:45:31 pm
Wheels make a massive difference to how the bike feels, more than anything apart from perhaps tyres.
I have an old steel Super Galaxy from the mid 80s which I use for commuting.  It normally has clumpy old wheels with fat Marathon tyres and rides solidly but a bit stodgily.  Once when I had a slow puncture I just swapped in a front wheel from a much better bike. From the way the bike felt I could have sworn that I was riding the better bike. 
Certainly it's not right to persuade people to ride wheels underbuilt for them, but overbuilt wheels are not good either!
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Brucey on November 11, 2016, 10:39:44 pm
Tor's original post mentioned wheelsets with too few spokes in, laced to rims that are not strong enough.  Such wheels fail often enough but if they are used by a strong, heavy, enthusiastic rider in all weathers, they are very likely to be insufficiently  reliable.

 The spoke tensions tend to be higher than in other wheels, and thus the local rim loadings and fatigue loadings are too. Winter road salt very greatly lowers the stress threshold at which cracks will propagate in the rim, so this is exactly what happens.

  I have seen dozens of wheels (very many different makers of wheel and/or rim) with cracked rims. In every case the wheels were built too light for the task in hand.

They would have lasted longer if they had been better protected from corrosion; there's not much point in applying an anodising treatment to the rim if you then breach it by drilling holes for the spokes right through it; this creates the perfect storm of

- a crevice to retain a pool of ever-strengthening brine
- a perfect site for corrosion to attack, with no coating on it
- the very highest stresses

all in the same place! Genius!

  It is also the case that if a single spoke breaks in a minimally-spoked wheels, the wheel is less likely to be rideable.

On the other side of the argument there seems to be an appetite for conflating 'wheels with more spokes in'  with 'heavy wheels' or 'slow wheels'.  What utter pish!    The lightest and nicest-riding wheels I own have lots of spokes in;  I also own several sets of minimally spoked wheels, which have almost without exception shown themselves to be heavier, less reliable, and less comfortable to ride on (yes even with the same tyres). Their sole advantage is aerodynamic, and that advantage is relatively slight.

  It is my earnest belief that the main reason people buy minimally spoked wheelsets is because they are swayed by fashion; the mindless scribes in various cycling journals don't help either....

Oh, and no-one should be surprised that any lightweight wheel is nicer to ride on that one fitted with a heavy tyre like a Marathon.

cheers
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Hot Flatus on November 11, 2016, 10:44:57 pm
There are good low spoke count wheels and bad low spoke count wheels.  Sounds like you bought a shit pair.

The solution to this is to be a little better informed next time you go shopping.
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Feanor on November 11, 2016, 10:52:21 pm
<shrug>

On the bike I ride most Audaxes on, I usually run modest Mavic Ksyrium wheels.
These have what would count as low spoke count here.

But:
-I've never been frowned at by a grey-beard at any Audax ( that I've noticed ).
-It's not an issue when it comes to replacing spokes 300k in to the Old Scrote 400, because *they don't break in the first place*.


Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Brucey on November 11, 2016, 11:01:54 pm
There are good low spoke count wheels and bad low spoke count wheels.  Sounds like you bought a shit pair.

The solution to this is to be a little better informed next time you go shopping.

well make that several shit pairs then.  And I've seen plenty of others that were even shitter, all of which have been widely lauded by people that ought to have known better... ::-)

 By way of contrast I offer you a rear wheel I built over thirty years ago. 36DB spokes, a rim that weighs 430g, lives outdoors in the rain, over 50000 miles to date, still going strong. Never broke a spoke yet either.

cheers
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Hot Flatus on November 12, 2016, 06:25:26 am
A thirty year old rim with 50000 miles on it.

It must be a fixed gear  ;)
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: rogerzilla on November 12, 2016, 12:54:50 pm
When rims were all much of a muchness in terms of construction, there was a general rule of thumb relating rim weight to rider weight (e.g. rims under 400g for a 700c were only suppused to be for light riders and racers).  I'm not sure that still holds, since rims vary a lot; they haven't necessarily got better (IME Mavic make some absolute rubbish now) but some rims just take higher spoke tensions without pringling or cracking.  I've never been a particularly lightweight rider but I've used some very light wheels and never had any problems except with Other People's Builds and with that Goldtec hub that just crumbled after two years of winter salt (the spokes and rim are still going strong, four years later). 
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: rogerzilla on November 12, 2016, 12:55:38 pm
A thirty year old rim with 50000 miles on it.

It must be a fixed gear  ;)

Or chromed steel.  Mind you, it would probably be a Brompton rim - the first ones were steel - to weigh 430g!
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: bikenrrd on November 13, 2016, 04:12:29 pm
I weigh 63kg (65 after Christmas, normally!) and most bike stuff is overbuilt for me.
I have a pair of wheels which weigh 1350g for the pair, with 20 thin gauge spokes at the front at 24 mixed thin / heavier at the rear. 
I've ridden these wheels down non-tarmaced roads a number of times, and they are still true and not cracked and the bearings are still fine.

Choose your equipment based on your weight, and you'll be alright.  If anyone tells me that I should be riding 32 or even (shudder) 36 spoke wheels I'll tell them to do one, though.
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: toontra on November 13, 2016, 05:02:03 pm
Doesn't it also depend on what the intended use is?  On my audax bike I have the proverbial open pro/dura ace wheelset.

On my new cervelo I have dura ace C24"s which weigh practically nothing, but I'll only ever be using that bike for (relatively) fast short blasts.
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Hot Flatus on November 13, 2016, 07:33:08 pm
Why not use it on a 600k?

Provided you are careful with potholes, I dont see an issue.
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Frank9755 on November 14, 2016, 05:08:37 pm
I'm  70kg and I got some new wheels earlier this year for the Transcontinental. 

The builder persuaded me that he was confident that he could build me wheels which would be extremely robust without using lots of spokes.  I ended up with DA hubs with 18/24 spokes, along with some pretty robust rims (Kinlin XR31). 

They are lovely wheels to ride, and they got me + 10kg of luggage to Turkey with no problems.  I hit a few potholes on the way, and did 20km of off-road in Macedonia, but they are still perfectly true. 

Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on November 14, 2016, 05:19:45 pm
Given they are 500 gram rims (touring weight, back in the day), I'm not surprised they are holding up well. Lighter rims and more spokes (to the same total weight) gives a lower radius of gyration, which feels nicer to ride. More aero drag though.
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: sojournermike on November 14, 2016, 05:24:29 pm
Yes, the 31T is my preferred rim now. It manages the strength, value and 'aero' equation really well. For higher spoke counts the 22T is also good.

My GF Ti wears the 31T laced 24:28 on a Shutter Precision SV-9 front and Hope Mono RS rear. The rear is an asymmetric drilling and spokes are laser except for DS rear, which are Aci Alpina. Nice wheels, if I say so myself.

Mike
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Ivan on November 16, 2016, 04:44:58 pm
I'm  70kg and I got some new wheels earlier this year for the Transcontinental. 

The builder persuaded me that he was confident that he could build me wheels which would be extremely robust without using lots of spokes.  I ended up with DA hubs with 18/24 spokes, along with some pretty robust rims (Kinlin XR31). 

They are lovely wheels to ride, and they got me + 10kg of luggage to Turkey with no problems.  I hit a few potholes on the way, and did 20km of off-road in Macedonia, but they are still perfectly true.

So, have you changed your mind since PBP then?


Be careful!  A broken spoke on a low spoke-count wheel could end your ride. 
It's a big risk for a tiny speed gain which also involves sacrificing some comfort with a stiffer wheel.  After PBP you hear an awful lot of people complaining about numb hands but I've yet to hear anyone say they wish they'd got round 10 minutes quicker by skimping on half a dozen spokes!

I guess dynamos is a bit of a religious thing - people either believe in them or don't - but I'd be very surprised if it really would be faster to cut back on spokes whilst having a dynamo nibbling away at your power output the whole time. 

I'll be using the same wheels as last time: Ultegra hubs / 32h.  I'll also most likely use the same lights as last time: two Hope Vision 1s.  In 2011 I rode through two complete nights, plus a few hours on a third.  I took one spare set of batteries with me and changed them half way, because I had them, but all three sets had power left when I finished.   

:-)
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: mattc on November 16, 2016, 06:05:37 pm
 ;D

That kinda shows how we're all guilty of forming "religious" views on kit that has worked well for us.

I'm sure there is some psychological/social-science term for it, but we do rush to find evidence that supports our chosen path, and brand nay-sayers as foolish :P

Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: The French Tandem on November 16, 2016, 07:26:26 pm
I'm sure there is some psychological/social-science term for it

Tradition?
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Jakob W on November 16, 2016, 08:17:18 pm
Confirmation bias?
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: Frank9755 on November 17, 2016, 08:47:05 pm
I'm  70kg and I got some new wheels earlier this year for the Transcontinental. 

The builder persuaded me that he was confident that he could build me wheels which would be extremely robust without using lots of spokes.  I ended up with DA hubs with 18/24 spokes, along with some pretty robust rims (Kinlin XR31). 

They are lovely wheels to ride, and they got me + 10kg of luggage to Turkey with no problems.  I hit a few potholes on the way, and did 20km of off-road in Macedonia, but they are still perfectly true.

So, have you changed your mind since PBP then?


Be careful!  A broken spoke on a low spoke-count wheel could end your ride. 
It's a big risk for a tiny speed gain which also involves sacrificing some comfort with a stiffer wheel.  After PBP you hear an awful lot of people complaining about numb hands but I've yet to hear anyone say they wish they'd got round 10 minutes quicker by skimping on half a dozen spokes!

I guess dynamos is a bit of a religious thing - people either believe in them or don't - but I'd be very surprised if it really would be faster to cut back on spokes whilst having a dynamo nibbling away at your power output the whole time. 

I'll be using the same wheels as last time: Ultegra hubs / 32h.  I'll also most likely use the same lights as last time: two Hope Vision 1s.  In 2011 I rode through two complete nights, plus a few hours on a third.  I took one spare set of batteries with me and changed them half way, because I had them, but all three sets had power left when I finished.   

:-)

Ha ha, well spotted!
Yes I have!  I was persuaded by the wheel builder.  I told him what I wanted them for and he said, if it's a race you want fast wheels and these will be fine.  I expressed my doubts but he said words to the effect of 'trust me, I'm a wheelbuilder' ....   
I was most concerned about potholes and hitting one on a descent in the Balkans at night.  He said that hitting a pothole might dent a rim but wouldn't break a spoke.  It didn't, so I guess he was right.
As LWAB says they are pretty chunky rims so not what I'd race a crit on, but for audax type rises where you are rolling along, not accelerating repeatedly, that are great.
Digressing completely onto my wheels, the one thing that I regret is having got an offset drilled rear rim.  I'm sure it is stronger, which I'd the purpose, but with tubeless tyres it is impossible to reinflate without changing the rim tape.

The other factor of course is that Redfalo, who I was warning off minimal spoke counts, is a touch more than 70kg!
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: rogerzilla on November 19, 2016, 08:16:01 pm
It probably also makes a difference whether you ride lightly on bad surfaces, by dodging potholes and getting out of the saddle when you can't avoid bumps, or just sit on the saddle like a sack of potatoes.  Mind you, most of us do the latter at the end of a very long ride.

As an analogy, it's often observed that experienced riders get far fewer punctures.  Some of this may be because they buy better tyres -  but it's mostly because they actively avoid sharp road debris* and the sort of potholes that cause pinch punctures.

*this also means using the road instead of psyclepaths, which should bear a "Marathon Plus or solid tyres only" warning sign.
Title: Re: Lightweight Wheels
Post by: mattc on November 20, 2016, 05:42:58 pm
... or because they actually pump their tyres up.