Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => The Knowledge => Health & Fitness => Topic started by: closetleftie on March 02, 2017, 10:26:31 pm

Title: A broken cyclist
Post by: closetleftie on March 02, 2017, 10:26:31 pm
The story is a bit long. Not entirely sure where's the most appropriate place for it either. Posting it here since it's undoubtedly a "medical matter", and in case anyone's interested. Mostly as musing.

These are my legs.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170302/9f1f371836bd903b13f6293a4c8d5a1d.jpg)
Long story involving a rabbit hole a year ago, successful treatment of a nasty tibial fracture, with a subsequent (rather rare) complication of the first treatment.

I've been told I can work again, part time. Also been told I can't cycle. Not that I wanted to for the first 8-10 weeks...it bloody stung, I tell ya. But told it simply isn't safe, if I fall I'm knackered. And that seems fair, actually. But the physio said a turbo's OK.

So I got meself a turbo and this is the bodged together set-up:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170302/be57c2faa8363827f03124ee7d70b5ec.jpg)

And this was today's session. For the first time I was limited by tiredness and not pain. 30 minutes, average power 217W. No idea how that compares to normal since I've never been on a turbo before this happened. Also no idea how that compares with anyone else my age. 44, 187cm, circa 90kg.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170302/dcb543ca41b9f0c21fac7f2ddec593f0.jpg)

Might post here every now and again as a sort of self-motivation strategy.

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Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: woollypigs on March 02, 2017, 10:31:58 pm
Good effort. You are more keen than me, didn't sit on the bike all February.
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: hellymedic on March 02, 2017, 10:34:50 pm
Sorry to see that you have the 'thing' back!

Amazed to see you're still trying to keep fit!

At my very best my power output was cr*p, as estimated by shuttle runs at Lillieshall.

Your advisers are right though; you really don't need to be any more broken.

There are worse things in life than being a desk jockey.

A Desk Jockey.
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: closetleftie on March 02, 2017, 10:44:52 pm
Sorry to see that you have the 'thing' back!

Amazed to see you're still trying to keep fit!

At my very best my power output was cr*p, as estimated by shuttle runs at Lillieshall.

Your advisers are right though; you really don't need to be any more broken.

There are worse things in life than being a desk jockey.

A Desk Jockey.
Quite. I'm doing mostly desk work with a bit of outpatients stuff. Not bad actually. "Keep fit"? Nah. "Try to become a bit more functional", more like.

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Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on March 03, 2017, 08:07:04 am
217W is quite a lot considering you have a leg in that condition.

120-150W is generally considered 'touring' level.

Sorry to see you are back in your cage. Hope it works this time, you must be right fed up of it. Keep up the calcium intake, exercise and stimulating blood flow has to help with healing. If I could pass on some healfactor rate genes to you, I would.
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: asterix on March 03, 2017, 08:13:20 am
Impressive motivation.  At least half the battle won.  GWS

(Can't help re watts as it's not something I measure)
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: T42 on March 03, 2017, 08:30:53 am
Good to see the SQR block still in place.  That cage will be off some day.
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: Canardly on March 03, 2017, 08:58:53 am
GWS, dont overdo it!.
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: closetleftie on March 03, 2017, 10:26:47 am
Good to see the SQR block still in place.  That cage will be off some day.
I'm very much of the "sling the commuting bike in the garage" school of bike maintenance - that's clearly transferred to my turbo training strategy!

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Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: sojournermike on March 03, 2017, 12:22:24 pm
You averaged 217 watts for 30 minutes with that on - chapeau!

I hope that you get well soon. Presumably when they say 'don't cycle' they mean 'until it's healed' and not 'forever'? You have my respect for getting on the turbo and not simply eating your way through it.

Perhaps you should build up that Bish BAsh Bosh to keep you motivated;)

Mike.
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on March 03, 2017, 12:49:31 pm
Good luck with this.
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: chrisbainbridge on March 03, 2017, 01:17:16 pm
217W is seriously impressive.
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: Wowbagger on March 03, 2017, 02:59:43 pm
Good luck, and GWS!

I love the use of the attachment from shoe-lace to mid-shin level. Can't make out the material - is it a rubber band or a silk scarf? I think a YACF buff might also do the trick!
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: Greenbank on March 03, 2017, 03:08:02 pm
And this was today's session. For the first time I was limited by tiredness and not pain. 30 minutes, average power 217W. No idea how that compares to normal since I've never been on a turbo before this happened. Also no idea how that compares with anyone else my age. 44, 187cm, circa 90kg.

Age isn't really a factor, nor height. If you really want to compare then the most important measure using that info would be W/kg.

217W/90kg = 2.41W/kg (for 30 mins)

https://decaironmantraining.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/power-profiling-chart.gif?w=620

Extrapolating a bit (since 30-min power will be slightly lower than 20-min power[1]) puts you low Cat-5. That's pretty much your average regular commuter who makes good progress (rather than pootling/dawdling). I've done plenty of Audaxes being low/mid Cat-5 on that chart.

Of course, this is all dependent on how hard you pushed (was it an all out effort for 30 minutes or did you leave some in the tank) and also how much you're holding back due to the injury.

GWS!

1. 1 hour power is typically 95% of 20 minute power, so expected 30 min power will be around ~98% of 20-min power.
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: bryn on March 03, 2017, 03:33:22 pm
Seems a pretty impressive power output to me - and if age isn't a factor, why isn't the peleton full of 44 year-olds?

Curious to know what is providing all the techie numbers: do you have a power meter on the cranks, or is it an up-market turbo trainer?

GWS

Bryn
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: Kim on March 03, 2017, 03:54:43 pm
I love the use of the attachment from shoe-lace to mid-shin level. Can't make out the material - is it a rubber band or a silk scarf? I think a YACF buff might also do the trick!

Looks like one of those rubber sheets that physioterrorists torment you with.  Colour denotes stretchiness.
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: closetleftie on March 03, 2017, 04:40:36 pm
Thanks all! I certainly feel motivated now.
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: DrMekon on March 03, 2017, 04:52:51 pm
217W is seriously impressive.

It's unbelievable - we have about the same FTP!

I wish you had Zwift so we could ride together - you could give me a tow!
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: DrMekon on March 03, 2017, 04:57:23 pm
Seems a pretty impressive power output to me - and if age isn't a factor, why isn't the peleton full of 44 year-olds?

Curious to know what is providing all the techie numbers: do you have a power meter on the cranks, or is it an up-market turbo trainer?

GWS

Bryn

He's got a Tacx Vortext Smart - they are great. In terms of function, it does almost everything that a Neo does for 40% of the price. I had one before my neo and other than the neo being quite, I may as well be on a Vortex. Review here http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/accessories/resistance-trainer/product/review-tacx-vortex-smart-t2180-50104/

One of them, plus Zwift on an iPad and you have a piece of kit that would have been unbelievable a few years ago
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: Vernon on March 03, 2017, 05:24:08 pm
Clare wants to know if they've put your feet on the wrong legs, or is it just the style of shoe?
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: woollypigs on March 03, 2017, 05:27:21 pm
Got me thinking, is that just FM or does it do MV/LM too?
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: closetleftie on March 03, 2017, 05:35:32 pm
Clare wants to know if they've put your feet on the wrong legs, or is it just the style of shoe?


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Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: closetleftie on March 03, 2017, 05:37:34 pm
217W is seriously impressive.

It's unbelievable - we have about the same FTP!

I wish you had Zwift so we could ride together - you could give me a tow!
On the basis that "if it seems too good to be true" I suspect the numbers weren't correct. It certainly felt a hard effort and I can see progress, which is all that matters.

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Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: sojournermike on March 03, 2017, 05:39:21 pm
Seems a pretty impressive power output to me - and if age isn't a factor, why isn't the peleton full of 44 year-olds?

Curious to know what is providing all the techie numbers: do you have a power meter on the cranks, or is it an up-market turbo trainer?

GWS

Bryn

He's got a Tacx Vortext Smart - they are great. In terms of function, it does almost everything that a Neo does for 40% of the price. I had one before my neo and other than the neo being quite, I may as well be on a Vortex. Review here http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/accessories/resistance-trainer/product/review-tacx-vortex-smart-t2180-50104/

One of them, plus Zwift on an iPad and you have a piece of kit that would have been unbelievable a few years ago

I've got a Bushido - like the smart does without mains power, but works well and was a bargain price - presumably about to be replaced.

My most recent ftp test gave me only 211W, but I reckon I could draft you zwift at that Dr M.
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: closetleftie on March 03, 2017, 05:44:53 pm
I love the use of the attachment from shoe-lace to mid-shin level. Can't make out the material - is it a rubber band or a silk scarf? I think a YACF buff might also do the trick!

Looks like one of those rubber sheets that physioterrorists torment you with.  Colour denotes stretchiness.
Yep. Achilles shortening is a common issue with these frames, exacerbated by the fact I have a drop foot.

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Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: Tim Hall on March 03, 2017, 06:20:23 pm
I love the use of the attachment from shoe-lace to mid-shin level. Can't make out the material - is it a rubber band or a silk scarf? I think a YACF buff might also do the trick!

Looks like one of those rubber sheets that physioterrorists torment you with.  Colour denotes stretchiness.
I reckon The Kim is right (I haz a green one somewhere).  Surely rather than replacing it with a YACF buff, the Yellowed Thong of Ambition could be substituted.

(GWS closetleftie, that doesn't look a whole lot of fun).
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: closetleftie on March 03, 2017, 07:05:37 pm


I love the use of the attachment from shoe-lace to mid-shin level. Can't make out the material - is it a rubber band or a silk scarf? I think a YACF buff might also do the trick!

Looks like one of those rubber sheets that physioterrorists torment you with.  Colour denotes stretchiness.
.....the Yellowed Thong of Ambition could be substituted.

(GWS closetleftie.....

I won't GWS if I let that thin anywhere near exposed metalwork, I don't think. Think of the infection risk....

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Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: Greenbank on March 05, 2017, 09:47:35 am
217W is seriously impressive.

It's unbelievable - we have about the same FTP!

I wish you had Zwift so we could ride together - you could give me a tow!
On the basis that "if it seems too good to be true" I suspect the numbers weren't correct. It certainly felt a hard effort and I can see progress, which is all that matters.

They probably are correct, but the majority[1] of cycling is governed by W/kg, not pure power output. From what I remember DrM weighs approximately 2/3 of you, so the same power output will give him a 50% advantage in W/kg terms.

Comparing power values without taking into account weight is like trying to work out who is over/under weight by looking at weight alone and completely ignoring their height.

(1. The exception is TT-ing which is more concerned with W/CdA but there's still some correlation between weight and CdA...)
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: DrMekon on March 05, 2017, 10:21:01 am
I'm 70kg, and my FTP is 235wish if you go by blood lactate, 291w if you believe the 20m test x.95 method. No idea why the discrepancy - possibly meds related - a load of the drugs I'm on can result in lactate acidosis - I'm meant to be flagging up to my consultant that I've got a resting lactate above 4mmol in the last two tests I've done.
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: closetleftie on March 05, 2017, 08:08:35 pm
I'm 70kg, and my FTP is 235wish if you go by blood lactate, 291w if you believe the 20m test x.95 method. No idea why the discrepancy - possibly meds related - a load of the drugs I'm on can result in lactate acidosis - I'm meant to be flagging up to my consultant that I've got a resting lactate above 4mmol in the last two tests I've done.
Substantially higher than mine then!

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Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: hellymedic on March 05, 2017, 08:13:50 pm
I'm 70kg, and my FTP is 235wish if you go by blood lactate, 291w if you believe the 20m test x.95 method. No idea why the discrepancy - possibly meds related - a load of the drugs I'm on can result in lactate acidosis - I'm meant to be flagging up to my consultant that I've got a resting lactate above 4mmol in the last two tests I've done.
Substantially higher than mine then!

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I am no expert on lactate though maybe cl can enlighten me. Isn't the normal around 1mmol?
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: closetleftie on March 11, 2017, 07:13:54 pm
Been a while, so here is today's session. Have to admit just one a week at the moment. Having said that, today's turbo session came on the back of a 5km walk in one go, without crutches. Which I hadn't done before. So there's progress I think.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170311/a3e01a019108b4649edf3fd63121a041.jpg)

200W average over 30 minutes is lower than before, but it was a different workout with more intervals. Peak power 491W, albeit only for a few seconds. Didn't fall apart at the end, although it's quite clear that what felt "easy" became progressively less intense as the intervals mounted.....

Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: closetleftie on March 11, 2017, 07:15:48 pm
Beer on the sofa time, I think.
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: sojournermike on March 11, 2017, 08:38:58 pm
Been a while, so here is today's session. Have to admit just one a week at the moment. Having said that, today's turbo session came on the back of a 5km walk in one go, without crutches. Which I hadn't done before. So there's progress I think.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170311/a3e01a019108b4649edf3fd63121a041.jpg)

200W average over 30 minutes is lower than before, but it was a different workout with more intervals. Peak power 491W, albeit only for a few seconds. Didn't fall apart at the end, although it's quite clear that what felt "easy" became progressively less intense as the intervals mounted.....

That's really something given the contraption on your leg. And how to manage an average cadence of 128? A proper spinner if ever.

Chapeau

Mike
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: closetleftie on March 11, 2017, 10:17:47 pm
Been a while, so here is today's session. Have to admit just one a week at the moment. Having said that, today's turbo session came on the back of a 5km walk in one go, without crutches. Which I hadn't done before. So there's progress I think.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170311/a3e01a019108b4649edf3fd63121a041.jpg)

200W average over 30 minutes is lower than before, but it was a different workout with more intervals. Peak power 491W, albeit only for a few seconds. Didn't fall apart at the end, although it's quite clear that what felt "easy" became progressively less intense as the intervals mounted.....

That's really something given the contraption on your leg. And how to manage an average cadence of 128? A proper spinner if ever.

Chapeau

Mike
No, average numbers are the small ones on the left of the graph (dotted line indicates average). The larger numbers are time point values and i think 128 was a blip. The cadence numbers are the least reliable since they can't be measured directly from a sensor "attached" to the back wheel. 79rpm average for the session - very much not a spinner. ....

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Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: closetleftie on March 14, 2017, 02:10:31 pm
Not a bike session, but at least it's on Strava so it "should count"..... 

Normal walking pace for what I'd consider a normal distance. Planning a short turbo session later.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170314/9b654e9f5078cec119ca43e9cb94a8c2.jpg)
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: Ian H on March 14, 2017, 02:24:23 pm
I remember seeing Drew Buck wearing one of those things a few years back.  He was on the back of a tandem.
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: closetleftie on March 14, 2017, 02:29:54 pm
I remember seeing Drew Buck wearing one of those things a few years back.  He was on the back of a tandem.
I've been told "NO CYCLING" in no uncertain terms..... surgeon says the issue is even a minor fall would break the leg. When the frame comes off and they're happy with healing, they'll let me go back to it.

Also, the thought of hitting my cage against the bottom bracket while standing on the pedals up a hill.....doesn't bear thinking about really.


Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: Ian H on March 14, 2017, 02:40:47 pm
I should have added, that it was not a recommendation.
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: closetleftie on March 14, 2017, 06:10:00 pm
I should have added, that it was not a recommendation.
There's a chap on an Ilizarov forum who did a LEJoG with his on......

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Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: hellymedic on March 14, 2017, 06:15:55 pm
I should have added, that it was not a recommendation.
There's a chap on an Ilizarov forum who did a LEJoG with his on......

Which does not make this good
or clever...
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: closetleftie on March 30, 2017, 08:51:46 am
Well, update in order I think. Have a clinic appointment 20 April and if the X-ray looks good, the frame will be loosened. Basically they loosen the nuts so the whole assembly can telescope but can't bend. That way your new bone takes the weight but is still braced.

Then I will walk around with loose nuts (fnar) for a couple of weeks. Hopefully then followed by this thing being removed.... Really could do with this whole experience being over, TBH.

BUT: this is a cycling forum, you say. So to the cycling. Still on the turbo couple of times a week:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170330/45c8f8f99e3317857284915f7b461bec.jpg)

Yesterday was 40 minutes intervals, average around 220W. So some progress evident, I think.
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: closetleftie on March 30, 2017, 09:00:29 am
Should have added that the distance covered in the 40 minutes was 17.6km - coincidentally the same as my commuting route!

1.5% slope on the trainer the whole way, which to my mind gives the same "feel" as riding on a level road. I suppose that's because a stationary trainer only gives rolling resistance and no air resistance? What do the experienced trainer-users OTP think?

Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: barakta on March 30, 2017, 09:57:52 am
Delighted to hear there's an end in sight to the frame - really interesting to see how they loosen before removal, that makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: simonp on March 30, 2017, 12:56:21 pm
Should have added that the distance covered in the 40 minutes was 17.6km - coincidentally the same as my commuting route!

1.5% slope on the trainer the whole way, which to my mind gives the same "feel" as riding on a level road. I suppose that's because a stationary trainer only gives rolling resistance and no air resistance? What do the experienced trainer-users OTP think?

The trainer should simulate wind + slope + rolling resistance. Their wind resistance assumption will not be the same as your on-road wind resistance, however.

Regarding feel, in erg mode you don't simulate any of this but you can still change the feel by switching gear. For a feel similar to riding at speed on a flat road, select a higher gear. The flywheel (assuming you have one - some trainers have purely electronic resistance) will take longer to spin down and you will have a smoother pedal stroke like on an outdoor ride. At the opposite extreme, select a low gear and you will experience a climbing like feel where the pedal stroke is much less smooth.

Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: closetleftie on March 30, 2017, 02:35:15 pm
Thanks Simon - that sounds about right. My trainer is electronic resistance only and certainly seems to have better feel in a higher gear/lower resistance mode. I think because I'm (ahem) hefty, pedal stroke feels smooth on the road as my momentum is likewise high....

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Title: Re: A broken cyclist
Post by: Ham on April 01, 2017, 11:22:38 am
I've been attempting to correlate the power needed on a trainer to that on a ride, and my conclusion is that they are actually remarkably similar, but the way you I typically use power on the road is completely different, especially commuting.

The main difference is that on the road I find myself adapting power all the time to the conditions, rarely just trying to "lay power down", cadence looks after itself. On the trainer I am trying to maintain output and cadence all the time (lose cadence on an erg trainer at your peril). When I try to estimate output based around heart rate and hold it on the road on a steady gradient (I don't have a power meter) it feels similar overall. And, wot simonp says.

Glad to hear you're on the mend.