Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Audax => Topic started by: Andy Corless on September 14, 2018, 04:37:19 pm

Title: Fort William 1000
Post by: Andy Corless on September 14, 2018, 04:37:19 pm
I'd like to introduce the Fort William 1000 being held over the weekend of 05 - 08 July 2019. A few brief details:

Starting and finishing in the Lancashire seaside town of Lytham St. Anne's, the route heads north to Carlisle and into Scotland, to a control at Paisley at roughly 300 km where food/sleep arrangements are being made. There's a drop-bag to Paisley.

The route then follows a 400 km loop around central Scotland, passing through, or close to Inveraray; Oban; Fort William and Glen Coe before returning to Paisley at about 700 km.

The 300 km south-bound route from Paisley back to Lytham is the exact reverse of the north-bound route.

Entry fee of £57.40 includes, but not limited to:

Brevet card with detailed route-sheet
3rd party insurance for UK-based participants
Breakfast on the morning of the event (Friday 05 July 2019)
Basic sleeping facilities; showers; food & drink at the Paisley control (roughly 300km & 700 km)
Bag drop from Lytham to Paisley
Breakfast on the morning after the event (Monday 08 July 2019)
Validation with AUK & ACP for successful riders
Commemorative water-bottle & medal
Any photograph's taken by the organiser during the event

There likely be a commemorative event cycling jersey available for purchase (typically £40 each) in the new year.

1000 km not enough?

If 1000 km isn't enough for you then you can perhaps try your hand at the Inverness 1200 which is being run con-currently. Both events start and finish at Lytham at the same time and more or less follow the same route to and from Fort William (see other YACF post for further information). Both events are run at the same speeds (13.3 - 30 kph).

Transfer of entries:

If, after you've already entered you decide you'd prefer to ride the Inverness 1200 instead, we'll transfer your entry from one event to the other free of charge up to anytime prior to the event start time (subject to the completion of a little bit more paperwork obtainable from the organiser).

Transfers won't be allowed after the event has started as this is against the original Audax ethos.

More information available on the event website: 

https://burnleyccevents.com/fort-william-1000-05-july-2019/


For the AUK calendar webpage:

http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/19-586/

Good luck to anyone who decides to enter.

Andy Corless
Organiser
Fort William 1000
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: FifeingEejit on September 14, 2018, 04:51:59 pm
Hope the bag drop and sleeping facilities aren't being managed by some locals normally found offering to "Mind yer car mister!"


Have entered, fancied a 1000 next year and thought i'd better sign up before being reminded how boring the B7076 is next weekend
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: slugbait on September 14, 2018, 05:38:21 pm
This is very tempting, especially since I've been wanting to explore Scotland by bike. I'm checking right now if I don't have any obligations at work in this period  :)
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: perpetual dan on September 16, 2018, 05:48:43 pm
I'm going to reply to this, as the idea is tempting though I'm unsure about fitting a sensible amount of riding in beforehand.  ???
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: FifeingEejit on September 16, 2018, 05:53:52 pm
This is very tempting, especially since I've been wanting to explore Scotland by bike. I'm checking right now if I don't have any obligations at work in this period  :)

Was about to say something along the lines of "Paisley to Fort Bill will be in darkness"; then I realized it's 2 weeks after the Solstice; choose your sleeping times wisely and you won't need lights to see with. Or if you're like me, Bring a dark buff to act as a multi function blindfold.
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: slugbait on September 17, 2018, 04:44:40 pm
[...]

Was about to say something along the lines of "Paisley to Fort Bill will be in darkness"; then I realized it's 2 weeks after the Solstice; choose your sleeping times wisely and you won't need lights to see with. Or if you're like me, Bring a dark buff to act as a multi function blindfold.

I checked the sunset times in Fort Williams early July and it seems to be properly dark from 11:15pm to 3:30am. Since I'm not a full value rider: 300 on Friday, sleep/shower/eat from 11:15pm to 3:30am, 400 on Saturday, sleep/shower/eat from 11:15pm to 3:30am, finish the remaining 300 on Sunday? Probably way too optimistic, but I'm sure I get to enjoy some of the scenery ;-)

Don't you need the buff to keep the midges out of your mouth?

Anyway, no work obligations, so I'm going to enter tonight.
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: FifeingEejit on September 17, 2018, 05:19:50 pm
[...]

Was about to say something along the lines of "Paisley to Fort Bill will be in darkness"; then I realized it's 2 weeks after the Solstice; choose your sleeping times wisely and you won't need lights to see with. Or if you're like me, Bring a dark buff to act as a multi function blindfold.

I checked the sunset times in Fort Williams early July and it seems to be properly dark from 11:15pm to 3:30am. Since I'm not a full value rider: 300 on Friday, sleep/shower/eat from 11:15pm to 3:30am, 400 on Saturday, sleep/shower/eat from 11:15pm to 3:30am, finish the remaining 300 on Sunday? Probably way too optimistic, but I'm sure I get to enjoy some of the scenery ;-)


Depends what you consider proper darkness

There's no night time or Astronomical twilight at that time of year, and if there's no clouds there's 4 hours of Nautical twilight and only 2 hrs 15 of Civil, .
So basically the sky will only be properly dark if there is heavy cloud cover; as your eyes adjust there would be enough light to see by without a torch.

See the picture on timeanddate for an idea of what each one means for darkness
https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk/fort-william

I've twice made the mistake of not taking something to cover my eyes while camping; once was early-may at Sheildaig when on thinking "it should be getting dark soon" I looked at my watch and realized it was 2am and was only going to get lighter.
and the second time was before the 400k I did at the end of July in Gala

Your timing plans fit with the darkest part of the day though; my problem with following the same plan is that it's too early for me to fall asleep unless I'm properly knackered.


Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: FifeingEejit on September 17, 2018, 05:30:16 pm
Of course legally we will have to show lights between 11:45 and 0300; but that's to be seen, not to see by which is down to how much light your eyes let in, how well you cope with shadows etc etc etc.

I'll hopefully have a better idea of how long the first 300 will take by Saturday afternoon, but I can see it being long before it's time for me to sleep.
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: mattc on September 17, 2018, 06:25:40 pm
Depends what you consider proper darkness

There's no night time or Astronomical twilight at that time of year, and if there's no clouds there's 4 hours of Nautical twilight and only 2 hrs 15 of Civil, .
So basically the sky will only be properly dark if there is heavy cloud cover; as your eyes adjust there would be enough light to see by without a torch.

I don't disagree with your facts, but your conclusions are rather glass half-empty :)

The problem only exists if it's a lovely clear night - well I for one will be praying for such a thing. I'd rather deal with the "problem" you describe above than riding through a night of pishing* rain!

*(have I got the vernacular right?  :-\  )
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: FifeingEejit on September 17, 2018, 10:07:38 pm
Depends what you consider proper darkness

There's no night time or Astronomical twilight at that time of year, and if there's no clouds there's 4 hours of Nautical twilight and only 2 hrs 15 of Civil, .
So basically the sky will only be properly dark if there is heavy cloud cover; as your eyes adjust there would be enough light to see by without a torch.

I don't disagree with your facts, but your conclusions are rather glass half-empty :)

The problem only exists if it's a lovely clear night - well I for one will be praying for such a thing. I'd rather deal with the "problem" you describe above than riding through a night of pishing* rain!

*(have I got the vernacular right?  :-\  )

Oh I too hope for a good clear night particularly given I'm a night owl; maybe being from the "dry" part of Scotland is where my half empty glass comes from.
Yes you have the venacular right.
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: yanto on November 08, 2018, 07:08:56 pm
Just signed up for this, looking forward to it as I haven't cycled the west coast since I moved away from the area nearly 20 years ago.
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: Ajax Bay on November 11, 2018, 11:16:57 pm
I checked the sunset times in Fort Williams early July and it seems to be properly dark from 11:15pm to 3:30am. Since I'm not a full value rider: 300 on Friday, sleep/shower/eat from 11:15pm to 3:30am, 400 on Saturday, sleep/shower/eat from 11:15pm to 3:30am, finish the remaining 300 on Sunday? Probably way too optimistic, but I'm sure I get to enjoy some of the scenery ;-)
Pasting across my post from the Inverness 1200 thread.

"I have been thinking about the 1000. Where would the sleep be on the second day?"

Plans and organisation is underway for a second control in the Fort William area, serving both events!
Andy Corless
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/28889542?beta=false
Lytham St Anne's > Paisley 320km (D1 0800-0100)
Paisley > Fort William 212km (D2 0500-1600)
Fort William > Crianlarich (82km)
(and same to Paisley)
Paisley > finish 320km ?
Assumes 19kph average during D1 and D2 riding.
To finish in 75 hours so by 1100 D4.
Time in hand = ? hours
"I have been thinking about the 1000. Where would the sleep be on the second day?"
You'd need (and want) to press on after eating at Fort William. Crianlarich (with its YH) is 82km from Fort William (which would make a (short) 294km day. @Phil W might advocate the heated waiting rooms at Tyndrum/Crianlarich (last train gone by 2200).
And if a rider (on the 1000) wished to stop 'overnight' to sleep at the end of Day 3, then Kendal (http://www.kendalhostel.com/) is 82km from the finish (328km from Crianlarich)
Trying to do the loop from Paisley up to Fort William and back in one go is a strong shout but doable (382km from a (say) 5am start) - no doubt some will do it.
Sunset 2202/sunrise 0441/moon: http://app.photoephemeris.com/?ll=55.831730,-4.432540&center=55.8317,-4.4325&z=18&spn=0.00,0.00&dt=20190706222900%2B0100
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: FifeingEejit on November 12, 2018, 11:09:25 am
So it's nae gonnae be a braw bricht moonlicht nicht that nicht.
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: slugbait on November 13, 2018, 08:11:24 pm
[...]
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/28889542?beta=false
Lytham St Anne's > Paisley 320km (D1 0800-0100)
Paisley > Fort William 212km (D2 0500-1600)
Fort William > Crianlarich (82km)
(and same to Paisley)
Paisley > finish 320km ?
Assumes 19kph average during D1 and D2 riding.
To finish in 75 hours so by 1100 D4.
Time in hand = ? hours
"I have been thinking about the 1000. Where would the sleep be on the second day?"
You'd need (and want) to press on after eating at Fort William. Crianlarich (with its YH) is 82km from Fort William (which would make a (short) 294km day. @Phil W might advocate the heated waiting rooms at Tyndrum/Crianlarich (last train gone by 2200).
And if a rider (on the 1000) wished to stop 'overnight' to sleep at the end of Day 3, then Kendal (http://www.kendalhostel.com/) is 82km from the finish (328km from Crianlarich)
Trying to do the loop from Paisley up to Fort William and back in one go is a strong shout but doable (382km from a (say) 5am start) - no doubt some will do it.
Sunset 2202/sunrise 0441/moon: http://app.photoephemeris.com/?ll=55.831730,-4.432540&center=55.8317,-4.4325&z=18&spn=0.00,0.00&dt=20190706222900%2B0100

Thanks for the potential place to crash along the route. It seems like a pretty flat course, so the loop from Paisley up to Fort William and back in one go (on day 2) still seems very doable  ;)

Anyway, I booked the ferry to Newcastle. Just hoping I won't need to apply for a visa after brexit...

Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: Doo on November 14, 2018, 08:08:54 pm
Crazy or not, am booked in ...
 ::-)
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: Walter G on December 13, 2018, 07:46:30 pm
Anyway, I booked the ferry to Newcastle. Just hoping I won't need to apply for a visa after brexit...

I entered the event as well.

So, you guys have to pass two Dutchies upon the left hand side next year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFtLONl4cNc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFtLONl4cNc)
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: FifeingEejit on December 13, 2018, 08:55:50 pm
Done a bit of spreadsheeting and google mapping
Lytham St Annes (Scout centre), Hackthorpe (Lowther hall), Gretna (services), Abington (Services) and Carnforth (Truckhaven) have known/likely control locations.
Inverary and Crianlarich the size of them makes limited difference to where you go in them
The rest are just where Google thinks the place is... which in some places could be halfway up the adjacent mountainside (Lochearnhead is bad for that one!)
I've not included the extra 6km to go via Helensburgh to Inverary, though looking at the route options, there's a nice looking tarred NCN path from Bowling to Dumbarton

Of course the Rest and Be Thankfull hillside being rather unstable could still screw everything up at the last minute.
      
Locationkmopens (30kmh)closes (13.3kmh)at 14kmhat 15kmhat 17kmhat 18kmhat 19kmhat 20kmhat 25kmh
Lytham St Annes008:0008:0008:0008:0008:0008:0008:0008:0008:00
Hackthorpe11211:4416:2516:0015:2814:3514:1313:5313:3612:28
Gretna Green16813:3620:3720:0019:1217:5217:2016:5016:2414:43
Abington24516:1002:2501:3000:2022:2421:3620:5320:1517:48
Paisley305 - Google says 31418:1006:5505:4704:2001:5600:5600:0323:1520:12
Inverary40421:2814:2212:5110:5607:4506:2605:1504:1200:09
Oban46423:2818:5317:0814:5611:1709:4608:2507:1202:33
Fort William53301:4600:0422:0419:3215:2113:3612:0310:3905:19
Crianlarich61504:3006:1403:5501:0020:1018:1016:2214:4508:36
Paisley705-google says 69307:3013:0010:2107:0001:2823:1021:0619:1512:12
Abington77509:5018:1615:2111:4005:3503:0300:4722:4515:00
Gretna Green85112:2223:5920:4716:4410:0307:1604:4702:3318:02
Carnforth96416:0808:2804:5100:1616:4213:3310:4408:1222:33
Lytham StAnnes1002-google says 101817:2411:2007:3402:4818:5615:4012:4410:0600:04

Not too bad timing for the roll through Glasgow, the eejits will hopefully still be swallying in the pubs and not spilled out into the streets until midnight.

Inverary (assuming control in town and unmanned) is dependent on RBS not shutting the Bank and ATM in Church Square. (a tad hidden) or the ticket machine in the Vital Spark car park having enough info on them if you've cracked on from Paisley, if you're fast enough a comfy bed at the hostel may even be doable.

Decent timing for slower averages for doing Ballaculish -> Fort Bill -> Crianlarich;
Should be a lot less traffic heading into the fort on a Saturday night from the Glen Coe end that what is escaping the drearyness of the Fort at night.
And return back to Ballachulish can easily be after that, which sets you up nicely for a late night climb up through glen coe and onto the muir.

Crianlarich, (again assuming an unmanned control) my snooping around tryin to work out how to avoid being on the A82 in the middle of the day for doing the Twilight 600 Perm
 there is absolutely nothing at night for controling with.
Nae parking charges, no outdoor ATM, no ticket machine at the station, probably no even polis in the office.

Then should be an early morning spin down the loch to Renfrewshire for another airbed snooze.

Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: yanto on December 14, 2018, 07:44:48 am
Thanks for that  :thumbsup:

Talking of going through Glasgow, isn't the shortest and easiest route across the Clyde by skirting the airport then across the Erskine bridge, or even depending on timing to get the ferry across at Renfrew (if it's still running)?
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: FifeingEejit on December 14, 2018, 10:09:48 am
Renfrew - Yoker ferry is 0630 to 2130 running every half hour outwith morning and evening peak when it's on demand.
The morning peak of 0630 to 0930 may be handy.

Depending on where the Paisley control is, that's potentially not a bad shout!
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: WCTD on December 14, 2018, 10:25:58 am
Not doing this event but from a Weegie point of view, If the controls are Paisley then Inverary, I would be thinking about jumping on the great & well surfaced tarmac cycle track at Paisley, it is then flatish & sign posted all the way to Gourock where i'd get the ferry from McInroys point over to Hunters Quay, ride up the side of Loch Eck and on to Inverary that way. It's keeps you away from the A82 or the shit cycle path that runs along side it and also the very busy climb over the Rest n B road.

Edit, something like this...https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29042824?beta=false
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: FifeingEejit on December 14, 2018, 11:37:19 am
Looked at the Dunoon option, but it's considerably longer.

The Loch Long option is only 6km more, you do have to join the A83 at Arrochar but once the road starts climbing you can duck onto the Hillclimb Track (unless of course Transport Scotland are running a convoy system on it) with only a couple of gates in the way if you don't want to stick to the main road.

I rode the 3 sides of the rest on a busy windy day a few years back, the descents were fine in the traffic except for hanging back on the descent to cairndow due to buffeting, decided to use the "old military road" for the last climb rather than the main road though.

Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: slugbait on December 14, 2018, 05:25:50 pm
All that talk about routes is very interesting, but as a rider from the continent (where mandatory routes are the custom) this is a bit confusing. Are you anticipating that the advisory route that Andy will publish is so bad that these alternative routes are a necessity? Or is this just finetuning?

Also: if a control is in a place where it is impossible to get a receipt in the middle of the night, then a selfie with the town sign or, even better, a local building with a clock is allowed, I guess? At least, that's what we do over here when there is a free control.
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: mattc on December 14, 2018, 07:41:20 pm
All that talk about routes is very interesting, but as a rider from the continent (where mandatory routes are the custom) this is a bit confusing. Are you anticipating that the advisory route that Andy will publish is so bad that these alternative routes are a necessity? Or is this just finetuning?

Also: if a control is in a place where it is impossible to get a receipt in the middle of the night, then a selfie with the town sign or, even better, a local building with a clock is allowed, I guess? At least, that's what we do over here when there is a free control.
For UK riders, it's often part of the "fun" to look at different options. It's very rare for an organiser to create something bad enough that riders later regret not doing their own research!

I've only done one of Andy's rides, but I'd say he has a good reputation for competent planning.

LIkewise, it's the convention for UK organisers to provide good instructions for getting "proof-of-passage", whatever their speed.

Best to either ignore these posts, or just read with a cautious eye until much closer to Le Depart. Unless you enjoy joining in with the route-planning :)
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: slugbait on December 14, 2018, 07:52:19 pm
For UK riders, it's often part of the "fun" to look at different options. It's very rare for an organiser to create something bad enough that riders later regret not doing their own research!

I've only done one of Andy's rides, but I'd say he has a good reputation for competent planning.

LIkewise, it's the convention for UK organisers to provide good instructions for getting "proof-of-passage", whatever their speed.

Best to either ignore these posts, or just read with a cautious eye until much closer to Le Depart. Unless you enjoy joining in with the route-planning :)

Thanks, I'll just take these posts with a grain of salt. And, somewhere in June, I'll try to figure out the optimal route...
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: FifeingEejit on December 15, 2018, 12:08:59 am
The majority of the route is in Scotland and in Summer, the optimal route is a combination of:
1) The Midgie count
2) The Weather Forecast
3) The Tourist count
4) The time of day or twilight (there is no Night...)

The Dunoon route if timing allows is probably the most adventurous and interesting.

Google Walking suggests:
Via Erskine Bridge and Luss - 90km
Via Helensburgh and Faslane - 95.9Km
Via the Kilcreggan Ferry - 97.4Km
Via Western Ferries and Glenbrantner - 97.7Km

So actually it's not too bad
Marine Traffic says that "Sound of Soay" averaged 10kn today so just over 18kmh for the 4.5km of the ferry route, which reduces the distance under your own steam to 93.3km; but then you could be waiting a while for the ferry.

Kilcreggan ferry takes 15 minutes for 2.7km so also around the 18kmh mark before including waiting time..

I may need to take a recce of the Loch Lomond cyclepath to see if it's as bad as WTCD says as I remember it being OK between Alexandria and the turn off for Helensburgh.
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: Ajax Bay on December 15, 2018, 10:45:53 am
For UK riders, it's often part of the "fun" to look at different options. It's very rare for an organiser to create something bad enough that riders later regret not doing their own research!
<snip>
Best to either ignore these posts, or just read with a cautious eye until much closer to Le Depart. Unless you enjoy joining in with the route-planning :)
Thanks, I'll just take these posts with a grain of salt. And, somewhere in June, I'll try to figure out the optimal route...
There are five sections on this ride where there are (imo) sensible 'options' (and these apply to the Inverness 1200 ride as well, of course). I don't know which ones Andy will adopt in his routesheet. I exclude the detail of the route NW from Lesmahagow to Strathaven - for discussion see the yacf Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool thread.
My draft route (truncated at Paisley on the way back) is: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/28889542?beta=false
1&2) From Hambleton (19k) to Stake Pool (29k) - can save a mile (and is faster in daylight (MP1K)) by using minor roads rather than A road (both ways)
3&4) Beetham (S of Milnthorpe on A6)(68k) to Kendal (82k) - NB exactly same distance/climb but Natland Road avoids trunk A roads (both ways,  lunchtime on Day 1).
5) Paisley to Inveraray - discussed above. I favour the Helensburgh route (extra 6k) to stay off the Loch Lomond A82/adjacent cycle path. Attracted by the cycle path to Greenock and then either of the ferry options (Gare Loch or Holy Loch) for additional audaciousness points, but the wait for ferries can be a time suck. First ferry timings (0630) mean its not an option for riders pushing on.
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: FifeingEejit on December 15, 2018, 11:03:55 am
Another one is the route between Ballachulish and Fort Bill.
If you get the timings right you could use the Corran and Camusnagal ferries...

Corran runs from "Nether Lochaber" (Onich) 0630 to 2130 with the last sailing from Ardgour at 2120.

The camusnagaul ferry sails 4/5 times a day, but if your timing suits and traffic is horiffic...
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: Walter G on December 15, 2018, 03:10:48 pm
Four years ago during the event organised by Black Sheep I disliked the road from Fort William to Glencoe very much and did a detour around Loch Leven (appr. 15 miles extra). Left Fort William om the A82 around eight in the morning and found myself on a road full of buses and trucks.



Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: FifeingEejit on December 15, 2018, 04:35:27 pm
Four years ago during the event organised by Black Sheep I disliked the road from Fort William to Glencoe very much and did a detour around Loch Leven (appr. 15 miles extra). Left Fort William om the A82 around eight in the morning and found myself on a road full of buses and trucks.

Are you sure it was Loch Leven? All that would have done is avoided the Ballachulish Bridge (The turn off at the north is about 200m before the bridge) and a short section of A82 past Ballaculish and Glen Coe Villages, on that section there is (or at least now is) a decent enough bit of tarmac off to the side that is rideable.  You do have to hop on and off the shared use between the ferry and the bridge as in some bits it's a nice 3m wide strip of tarmac and in other bits you'd have to ride on the kerb to avoid clipping the wall...  ::-)

If there wasn't a Crianlarich Control I'd be tempted to avoid the climb of Glen Coe and return to Paisley using the route via Inverary and Helensburgh, BUT that's about 65km longer.

However the great thing about the trunk roads in Scotland is because they go places that are far apart, after mid-evening there's very little traffic.

If you decided to chance the Camusnagaul ferry option and missed it, it's a 37km detour round Loch Eil.
The Road to the Isles can be a bit of a shambles, but most of the time you simply need to wait until the traffic that got off the ferry at Mallaig has passed and you'll have it mostly to yourself until Kilmallie.


The only bits of the A82 that concern me are the bit between the Corran Ferry Slipway and Fort Bill (both directions), and between Crianlarich and Alexandria.
In both cases iffy weather is our friend!
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: ianrobo on December 15, 2018, 04:45:43 pm
all this worry about the A82 though, on a Saturday/Sunday when most will hit it ? is it really any worse than the roads I do on my commute daily ?
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: FifeingEejit on December 15, 2018, 09:52:15 pm
all this worry about the A82 though, on a Saturday/Sunday when most will hit it ? is it really any worse than the roads I do on my commute daily ?

Depends, what road you commute on...

As I said before, the A82 can be stupid busy or it can be utterly deserted, weather, time of year and time of day are everything to how you experience it.


The whole road came to a grinding halt on Rannoch Muir last winter when everyone tried to go skiing at the back corries on the same day.
From the video I posted (I think it was on the 1200) that was a minging day in the mid-afternoon, it wasn't bad at all; wind forward a year from that photo and on a blistering hot day, that was also a Glasgow holiday Monday and on that same climb at no point did I not have a car on the tail and a load of terrible passes to go with it, it wasn't fun.


The other problem is that these roads follow tourist routes as well as being critical for locals and business getting around the west coast, so there's speed differentials between holidaymakers staring at the surroundings, or crawling because the twisty road scares the crap out of them because they're used to urban roads and motorways and the locals who are absolutely hammering it whenever they can.

The truncated rule for single track roads is as follows:
Red Van - It's a post van, get out the way, the postie knows every little bump on the road
Local Car - Driver will know how to handle the passing places so just roll in and tell them to pass
Tourist - Will put themselves off the road at the sight of anything else on the road, if they stay on the road they are likely to stop suddenly in passing places, on the wrong side or even in a bog that looked like a passing place.  Don't expect them to understand the concepts of passing...

This translates into the trunk/primary roads as:
Red Van - Postie, has a speed limiter fitted, expect to have the accelerator floored because it's easier than holding it in the right place. Will use the full width of the available road.
Local - No speed limiter fitter, expect to have the accelerator floored most of the time, use the full width of available road and generally not hang back
Tourists - Moving chicanes for the above

The timings for what I'm expecting to do only indicate that the bit between Ballaculish and Fort Bill may be a bit rubbish; this is also the bit where it's not uncommon for the police and contractors to be fishing wrecked cars out of the embankment vegetation and occasionally the loch...

The road into the Erskine Bridge on the way back is also a bit rubbish from Tarbet down (traffic joins from the A82 and A83 routes); and then turns into a dual carriageway past Alexandria.
I rode from Alexandria up to Arden once and wished I wasn't there, that was early-afternoon in August, I returned the same way and spotted the cycle track which appears to start at Tarbet but also seems to be a bit crap.

I understand it's one of the reasons that the Daylight/Twilight 600 hasn't been run for a few years, and when I mentioned attempting it the first response was along the lines of "start at night (at queensferry), so you get to Crianlarich late enough for a quiet ride up the Muir"
Rather than do that we're planning based on a mild-march so go after the ski season... it'll be deserted as it'll be too snowy on the tops for anyone not owning crampons and there won't be enough ice and snow low down for the ski-ers and ice climbers... or that's the hope.
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: FifeingEejit on December 15, 2018, 10:10:26 pm
Rannoch - A82 stuck with Ski Traffic
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/2118958/glencoe-ski-centres-travel-chaos-a82/

Loch Ness - 2017 summary of carnage
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands/1300590/disruption-for-highland-drivers-after-two-crashes-on-busy-a82/

Consider also the variation in experiences reported on here:
https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=49903

Something I would say is Mike F's post is my experience, it used to be pretty quiet even at busy times, like you would rarely need to slow down for the Tulla Bridge at the foot of the Blackmount as you'd be able to adjust speed on the descent based on what you see as far as Bridge of ORchy; now there's almost always a long line of vehicles... and every time I get there it's a bloody coach no point even hoping the other drivers will know you can (just) get 2 cars through at once.
THis one: https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4756295
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: ianrobo on December 18, 2018, 05:50:31 pm
Rannoch - A82 stuck with Ski Traffic
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/2118958/glencoe-ski-centres-travel-chaos-a82/


stupid bloody drivers !!! thanks for the section above much appreciated to think about when the suggested route is out
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: FifeingEejit on December 18, 2018, 05:53:43 pm
Ideally Sustrans and the council would get together and work out how to turn the Telford road into an all purpose path and how to provide sections alongside the current road where the 2 follow the same alignment (surprisingly not very often)
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: willpom gwraudax on January 21, 2019, 02:20:39 pm
Whoops, signed up. May do the old Military Rd after FW thru Kinlochmore to Altnafeadh just for a laugh... :smug:
Title: Re: Fort William 1000
Post by: FifeingEejit on January 21, 2019, 05:59:32 pm
Whoops, signed up. May do the old Military Rd after FW thru Kinlochmore to Altnafeadh just for a laugh... :smug:

I've heard that the "road" from KL to the top of the staircase was "Improved" over the summer;
It was a fun descent with all the rock pavements, although last time I was up there it was frozen and snowy which resulted in an interesting descent of the staircase.