Yet Another Cycling Forum

Off Topic => The Pub => Topic started by: citoyen on October 25, 2018, 07:34:48 pm

Title: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: citoyen on October 25, 2018, 07:34:48 pm
A thread for those minor annoyances that aren’t worth ranting about but are good examples of where the person who designed the tech didn’t think it through properly. Your starter for 10...

Started a new job this week. The office printers require you to log in, which you can do using the same pass you use to enter the building. First time you use it, you have to set it up with the same username and password you use to login to your computer.

Of course, my IT-assigned password contains the £ symbol, which isn’t available as a character on the transpondian printer’s user interface.

:facepalm:

Fortunately, I also have a code to login to the printer but it is slightly less convenient to have to enter that every time than just waving my pass at the damn thing.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on October 25, 2018, 07:40:01 pm
Ahem!
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=108487.msg2297638#msg2297638
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=58421.msg1203475#msg1203475
 ;D
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: SpaceBadger on October 25, 2018, 07:40:55 pm
No forced password change at first log-on? That's the tech fail in my opinion.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: citoyen on October 25, 2018, 07:55:47 pm
No forced password change at first log-on? That's the tech fail in my opinion.

Fair point. I suppose it’s because they don’t trust me to come up with something more secure than ‘password99’.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Feanor on October 25, 2018, 08:00:09 pm
I quite like the follow-me printing where you send the print job to the server and then pick it up at any printer in the company anywhere in the world by just swiping your card on the printer.

Means I dont have to set up dozens of printers on my laptop, and select the correct one for the office Im in, and risk sending  confidential stuff to a printer in another office by mistake.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: citoyen on October 25, 2018, 08:02:34 pm
Ahem!

Yes, well. I never claimed it was an original thought. Also, I’m browsing on my phone which is shit for searching the archive.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Feanor on October 25, 2018, 08:05:15 pm
My last reply just reminded me how much I dislike typing on mobile devices.
Its missing much punctuation because you need to switch the on screen keyboard through several Symbol modes to get the punctuation required.
And I cba, and rely on people not  being too pedantic.
Title: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: citoyen on October 25, 2018, 08:05:28 pm
I quite like the follow-me printing where you send the print job to the server and then pick it up at any printer in the company anywhere in the world by just swiping your card on the printer.

Means I dont have to set up dozens of printers on my laptop, and select the correct one for the office Im in, and risk sending  confidential stuff to a printer in another office by mistake.

I also quite like the fact that your job doesn’t actually print until you go to the printer, which would be handy if eg you need to put headed paper in the tray. Also means you don’t get to the printer to find someone else has cancelled your job* or thrown away the printout. 

Not sure how I feel about being told how much I’m costing the company every time I print a page though. And it keeps a running total - I’ve spent £2.37 on printing so far this week! Hope it isn’t deducted from my wages.

*Not that I would ever admit to having done this myself. Of course.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: ian on October 25, 2018, 08:35:28 pm
My last Windows laptop was set up to print in Philadelphia and Singapore. So I sent them cryptic messages until they told me to stop wasting their paper.

One of the benefits of moving to a Mac is that the mothership's IT don't try to set anything up, they just throw it at you and say not-us-guv'nor you're on your own, which to be honest, is a lot better.

My remote command centre printer (ye of little toner) has developed a Bardotish need to be alone. It had a little wireless networky gubbin.. All was peachy other than the dire toner straits till the wireless AP in my office did the internal thunder-and-lightning thing and emitted its final gasp of ozone. I gave the new AP a different name to solve some other modern problem.

Things I can't remember.

The IP address of the wireless gubbin (because I changed it). Which is minor, because I have no clue at all how to configure it. I could dig out the device and model number and cruise the internet for instructions that I'm sure gave me a headache the first time around. Or I could do something more interesting and think of the all the paper I'm saving.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on October 25, 2018, 08:57:31 pm
Ahem!

Yes, well. I never claimed it was an original thought. Also, I’m browsing on my phone which is shit for searching the archive.
Let's be honest, everything is shit for searching the archive. It's probably another aspect of modern life being rubbish.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Ben T on October 25, 2018, 09:05:30 pm
At my office they have had the clever idea of saving money by making the default settings for the universal printer driver black and white, instead of colour (which everyone knows the printers are capable of), to save on coloured ink/toner.
So what do people do?
Print off a (coloured) docment, go and get it, fidn that 'oh bugger, it's printed in black and white', go back to their desk, change the settings, in order to print it again in colour.  :facepalm: ;D
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Tim Hall on October 25, 2018, 09:06:14 pm
That nice Douglas Adams had it about right:
Quote
We are stuck with technology when what we really want is just stuff that works

Oh, and what Cudzo said about searching the archive. It is decidedly sub optimal.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Ben T on October 25, 2018, 09:08:28 pm
A thread for those minor annoyances that aren’t worth ranting about but are good examples of where the person who designed the tech didn’t think it through properly. Your starter for 10...

Started a new job this week. The office printers require you to log in, which you can do using the same pass you use to enter the building. First time you use it, you have to set it up with the same username and password you use to login to your computer.

Of course, my IT-assigned password contains the £ symbol, which isn’t available as a character on the transpondian printer’s user interface.

:facepalm:

Fortunately, I also have a code to login to the printer but it is slightly less convenient to have to enter that every time than just waving my pass at the damn thing.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/08/09/password-expert-says-he-wrong-numbers-capital-letters-and-symbols-useless/552013001/

WELL IT'S A BIT LATE NOW!  ;D
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Jaded on October 25, 2018, 09:20:13 pm
Ahem!

Yes, well. I never claimed it was an original thought. Also, I’m browsing on my phone which is shit for searching the archive.
Let's be honest, everything is shit for searching the archive. It's probably another aspect of modern life being rubbish.

+1

 ;)
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Scrantaj on October 25, 2018, 09:26:12 pm
Ahem!

Yes, well. I never claimed it was an original thought. Also, I’m browsing on my phone which is shit for searching the archive.
Let's be honest, everything is shit for searching the archive. It's probably another aspect of modern life being rubbish.

+1

 ;)

Most forum search engines are crap.  Use google site search instead.  e.g.  "site:yacf.co.uk absolute black" used to look if anyone had tried using the absolute black oval chainrings.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: ian on October 25, 2018, 10:10:00 pm
Everyone knows passwords like shg^uitr-&345k!≠-5k$ are shit (other than people who manage passwords). We had to invent computers just to remember their own passwords (and some others to crack them). It's a SkyNet thing. Don't worry chaps, no one will ever remember the password that launches all the nuclear missiles now we've stopped writing them on post-it notes. Ironically, computers couldn't read post-it notes. We would have been safe provided we'd not held them up in front of the webcam.

Inspired by this thread, I tried to set up my wireless printer gubbins. You can guess how well that worked. The default post-reset password is admin|admin apparently. I can confirm that it is not.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: citoyen on October 26, 2018, 08:11:19 am
Also this week, I’ve been using the TFL hire bikes regularly for the first time in a few years. I’ve discovered that the official app has been much improved since I last used it - you can see in advance if there will be any bikes at the docking station rather than find it empty when you get there, and you can request an access code before you get there to save time faffing with the console (I still have a key but it doesn’t work for some reason and I haven’t got round to calling them to sort it).

One minor problem with the app - it has a route planner to guide you between docking stations. However, unless you enter the name of your destination dock precisely (including punctuation) it directs you to the BBC in White City. There’s no option to select your destination by browsing the map either.

The TFL journey planner app is much better in this respect - you start typing your destination and a list of suggested options pops up.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Mr Larrington on October 26, 2018, 09:50:28 am
"Wasn't it Greta Garbo who wanted to be alone?" asked Mr No-Mates.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Pingu on October 26, 2018, 10:06:58 am
...Fortunately, I also have a code to login to the printer but it is slightly less convenient to have to enter that every time than just waving my pass at the damn thing.

My card never worked with our printers so the IS dept. gave me code. That's good because I can use the printers even if I've forgotten my card. I have to beg to borrow a card to get to the toilets thobut.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: ian on October 26, 2018, 10:08:55 am
You know, I was thinking that when I wrote Bardot, but I couldn't be bothered to google. Garbolian would have been a bit easier.

Anyway, despite several resets, the stupid wireless printer gubbin refuses to acknowledge the username admin and password admin, despite the claims of the internet and the instructions that these are the keys to the door. I see a bin in your future, little gubbin. Apropos horrid instructions, the reset does demand you power up while holding the button for seven seconds until the LED flashes and then follow eight pages of instructions that involve things like ad hoc networking. We really need more women in technology. I'll take any accusations of blatant sexism if it saves me from those sorts of instructions.

And while we're at it – OneDrive. Would it really, really hurt to offer me a simple download option for a file? I swear it used to be there. Click the download option on the taskbar it says with an almost audible snigger, because there isn't.

Imagine if someone invented a widely known way to download a file by right-clicking and clicking download. That would be great, because then we could invent webapps that remove it and replace the feature with an invisible button.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: SoreTween on October 26, 2018, 10:29:03 am
At my office they have had the clever idea of saving money by making the default settings for the universal printer driver black and white, instead of colour (which everyone knows the printers are capable of), to save on coloured ink/toner.
So what do people do?
Print off a (coloured) docment, go and get it, fidn that 'oh bugger, it's printed in black and white', go back to their desk, change the settings, in order to print it again in colour.  :facepalm: ;D
So enormously much of this.
The solution in our office came for me when I needed to go to a vendor site so my Neolithic desktop was replaced with a laptop. I insisted to my boss I be granted local admin rights as "IT are shit 5 days a week, I'll be working 7". Previously changing defaults for a printer only lasted until the next gpupdate (4 hours), now they are permanent.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: ElyDave on October 26, 2018, 11:54:52 am
I've been with my company 11 years now, I still have no idea what my login code for the telephone system is.  I could have thousands of voicemails for all I know.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: ian on October 26, 2018, 12:16:28 pm
Me neither. I usually switch voicemail off (certainly is for the remote command centre) on the grounds I'd rather not have decipher the long rambling requests thusly left. Write it down or call back when I'm in.

That said, I do have a phone on my inexplicable desk. Inexplicable because I go to the mothership about once every couple of weeks and I've told them several times that I neither want nor need a desk, yet it persists. I thought it would finally disappear in a recent floor move, but nope, there's still a desk with my name on it and a destined never-to-be-answered phone.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: ElyDave on October 26, 2018, 12:23:02 pm
I don't have a desk, I have to go online and book one by the morning or afternoon when I'm planning to be in the office.

As an actual plus, my access card gets me into both the London and Aberdeen offices, not quite sure how we managed to get something useful happening.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: barakta on October 26, 2018, 12:25:16 pm
I quite like the follow-me printing where you send the print job to the server and then pick it up at any printer in the company anywhere in the world by just swiping your card on the printer.

Means I dont have to set up dozens of printers on my laptop, and select the correct one for the office Im in, and risk sending  confidential stuff to a printer in another office by mistake.

I like it the swipe to print system in theory.

In practice in newjob there are insufficient printer/scanner devices for staff (1 for 100+ staff) so always a queue and a nightmare when it breaks (repairs seem to take DAYS) AND it's in a stupid place. There's no where to put paper down while you handle it which I find really stressful and difficult. The other scanner on the floor won't recognise me cos I'm only agency employed.

Scanner mangles x% of scans so I have to carry sensitive data around with me until I can find a PC to check PDF via email on it - not easy when a temp member of staff so I have no secure paper storage, desk or PC...

I do a lot of pointless traipsing because of stupid centralised scanner/print systems which DON'T WORK properly... IT are shit which also doesn't help.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: ian on October 26, 2018, 12:37:11 pm
I don't have a desk, I have to go online and book one by the morning or afternoon when I'm planning to be in the office.

As an actual plus, my access card gets me into both the London and Aberdeen offices, not quite sure how we managed to get something useful happening.

My access card works across the board. Before we were divested, it was quite handy for using the executive loos in Times Square and lower Broadway (when I was on holiday in NYC. obviously). Alas no more, you'd have to go to Boston or Philadelphia for a piss.

Weirdly, you also need a card to exit the building. Which bemuses visitors no end. There is literally no escape. I presume we burn to death in a fire – apparently all the doors open if the fire alarm goes off and that kind of technology never, ever fails.

Given the mothership's relaxed attitude to homeworking and the fact that I work with people who are mostly, like me, on the road, there's never a shortage of empty desks anyway. No point in booking one.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: citoyen on October 26, 2018, 01:48:58 pm
At my office they have had the clever idea of saving money by making the default settings for the universal printer driver black and white, instead of colour (which everyone knows the printers are capable of), to save on coloured ink/toner.
So what do people do?
Print off a (coloured) docment, go and get it, fidn that 'oh bugger, it's printed in black and white', go back to their desk, change the settings, in order to print it again in colour.  :facepalm: ;D

Along similar lines, when MS Word updated itself a while ago, it changed the default print option to double-sided - a similar kind of resource-saving measure. Which is fine in principle, but of course I quite often need stuff to be printed out single-sided, so end up having to print it twice...

I think I've finally beaten it into submission - after several attempts I have persuaded it to accept single-sided as the default. At least until the next update...
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: citoyen on October 26, 2018, 01:51:59 pm
In practice in newjob there are insufficient printer/scanner devices for staff (1 for 100+ staff) so always a queue and a nightmare when it breaks (repairs seem to take DAYS) AND it's in a stupid place.

At my last-but-one job, there was a big whiteboard next to the departmental printers bearing the message: "Days since last printer breakdown: X"

I don't think X ever got into double figures during the seven years I worked there.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: ian on October 26, 2018, 08:36:53 pm
I thought I'd go for round 2 with the wireless print server gubbins and the hilarious long instructions.

Yeah.

Then I took it outside, placed it on the patio, and jumped up and down on it while the cats watched from a minimum safe distance.

I believe I have now solved the problem.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Mrs Pingu on October 26, 2018, 08:48:33 pm
Everytime I go to the printer I have the excitement of wondering whether it's going to read my card first time or not. I suspect there's a sweet spot in the optimum number of milliseconds that you hold the card to the scanner. Too short or too long and it no worky. One day maybe I'll get it right every time.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Jakob W on October 26, 2018, 08:50:44 pm
Wireless printers never, ever work; network printers are hit and miss; and plugged-in printers only occasionally decide to fuck up when things are mission-critical.

Actually, I malign the species - I never remember having a problem with my dot-matrix, though the screech of it printing off school essays made a dentist's drill seem like a lullaby by comparison.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: barakta on October 26, 2018, 11:00:12 pm
Everytime I go to the printer I have the excitement of wondering whether it's going to read my card first time or not. I suspect there's a sweet spot in the optimum number of milliseconds that you hold the card to the scanner. Too short or too long and it no worky. One day maybe I'll get it right every time.

This too! It seems random about what it does and doesn't read... And the UI is terrible, you can't change the defaults from shitty 200DPI mono scans which means I keep getting documents I CAN'T READ cos it's too nasty when enlarged.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Mrs Pingu on October 26, 2018, 11:12:19 pm
You can change our scans, but I can only work out how to do it if I change the way the info is displayed.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: redshift on October 27, 2018, 07:41:49 am
[snip]...
Imagine if someone invented a widely known way to download a file by right-clicking and clicking download. That would be great, because then we could invent webapps that remove it and replace the feature with an invisible button.

Hey Ian, I found your problem.

As in:
"Hello, I'm your new stats-keeper for <old-bit-of-kit-that-still-works>.  Please create an account at https://shonky-website-with-cruddy-scripts.com"
"Why?  I have software that does that on my systems."
"Ah, but we're deprecating your old software, so when your next OS update happens it won't work any more, and we've decided you should use The Web Service instead."
"Why?  I have terabytes of scale-out storage and my own substation onsite.  Why not give me an appropriate update for the software?"
"Well, your kit is so old that everyone who worked on it is either retired or dead, and nobody really understands how it works anymore...*"
"I do..."
"...so that involves hiring programmers who programme, rather than interns who know a bit of PHP and can find Bootstrap.  See, it looks just like Twitter, and it keeps all your stats in the cloud."
"So, it exposes my stats to all kinds of privacy and commercial risks.  Great!  What about the ten years or more of stats I have in my database?  Can I upload those too, just to make the thing so much better?"
"Of course you can.  Just export each record individually as a single .blx file and upload them one at a time..."
"!"
"Once you've installed our new driver, your kit won't talk to your old database at all, it'll all be in our servers."
"!!"
"Oh, and you don't own your information, either.  We'll sell it to anyone we like, because you happen to live outside the area in which <EULA> is enforceable."
"!!!"

We're barely a hair's breadth away from the Marketing Division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation.

* Out of context here, but that's an actual quote.  Yes, really.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: hubner on October 27, 2018, 12:00:09 pm
My network laser B&W printer (plugs into the wifi router by ethernet) works every time with XP, but it did have some problem on the current Ubuntu Mate but it's working now.

What I don't understand is why scans comes out all grey and washy, you have to adjust contrast and levels for something as simple as black text on a white page.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: ian on October 28, 2018, 06:22:45 pm
Buying stuff online. I was on the train yesterday and looking at my increasingly distressed Meindl walking boots. OK, I find a replacement pair online (I'm very happy with them) and whoopie, they're even on sale, they have my size and they're in stock. Awesome. In the basket they go.

Go through to checkout.

That fucking additional credit card security thing, that's what. I have no fucking idea what the 3rd, 6th, and 32nd letter of a security password I don't have is. Because I told you to remove it from my card because it's an entirely useless security measure that simply makes people write down their password because no sane person knows what the umpteenth letter of a cryptic phrase is. Try another card, same shit.

Give up, figure I'll try back at home.

You can guess the rest. Ain't got my size now. In fact, for the same boots there's suddenly a sizing lacunae between 8.5 and 9.5. Sometimes I think the internet is just fucking with me.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: ian on October 29, 2018, 10:21:58 am
On the grounds that I never learn, I thought I'd brave the internet again to finally get around to ordering one of those Hive thermostats (mostly because it'll be too complicated for the inlaws to turn up to the house temperature to Bahrain). Plug in my details, add DD, book appointment.

Sorry, something's gone wrong.

Why don't you call us?

So I do. Of course, our BG account is in my wife's name, so they can't talk to me because it's still impossible in 2018 to have two account holders.

Why is it so hard? Is it just me that finds the only way to buy something off the internet means Amazon, because it's the only bloody site that works.

ETA: but they just sent me a confirmation. However, they can't confirm they've sent me a confirmation unless I pretend to be called Clare.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Ben T on October 29, 2018, 10:38:17 am
The only thing even more annoying than "Sorry, something's gone wrong", is when they, on a published, live, supposedly professional website, feel the need to insert the word "Whoops!" into that piece of text.
I haven't just slipped over on a banana skin you unprofessional bunch of shites.

amazon is often the only site that works but is anyone else finding it increasingly populated with cheap chinese tat rather than good quality products, and when it does have good quality products it's usually last year's / old stock?
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Ben T on October 29, 2018, 10:42:25 am
You can guess the rest. Ain't got my size now. In fact, for the same boots there's suddenly a sizing lacunae between 8.5 and 9.5. Sometimes I think the internet is just fucking with me.
Hard as it might be, go on your phone, edit basket and remove them from the basket on your phone. Or try after a time period.

They sometimes reserve a stock item when someone puts it in their basket, rather than when they checkout. It might stay reserved for a certain time period. Removing it might free it up. Might not, but you might be lucky. "In stock"-ness isn't always accurate.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: rafletcher on October 29, 2018, 11:04:49 am
You can guess the rest. Ain't got my size now. In fact, for the same boots there's suddenly a sizing lacunae between 8.5 and 9.5. Sometimes I think the internet is just fucking with me.
Hard as it might be, go on your phone, edit basket and remove them from the basket on your phone. Or try after a time period.


Or, indeed, make a phone call to place an order.  :)
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: ian on October 29, 2018, 11:34:07 am
Yeah, but my gripe is really using the internet and then ending up having to phone them, which is a bit of a fail. That and the stupid input the 5th, 32nd, and 245th letters of a phrase you don't know to authorize a purchase. Even if I knew the code, I'd have to write it down and count the letters. I'd hazard most people would.

Anyway, I got my boots from somewhere else in the end (more expensive, but c'est la vie), so Blacks lost £150 of my custom. When they appear in the retail failure thread, that'll be my fault.

My other gripe is the meaningless Sorry, something's gone wrong. Whoops indeed. What? Come on, don't be so coy.

And then, of course, sending me the order confirmation.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: TheLurker on October 29, 2018, 12:12:58 pm
Quote from: ian
Whoops indeed.
It's all of a piece with the relentless kiddywinkyfication of everything.  Treat everyone like they're helpless idiots and eventually they'll learn to be helpless idiots, which is exactly what *they* want us to be.  Now, where's my tin-foil hat?  I had it a moment ago... 

There's a Dilbert cartoon from 20 odd years ago on the theme of learned helplessness, but as part of my ongoing resistance to the Fisher-Price Interface Hegemony I'm going to make you search for it. :)
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: ian on October 29, 2018, 12:15:59 pm
And, setting up my Hive account for the quantum superpositions order/non-order, I let Safari fill in my password.

Verify account.

Non!

It insists I have to re-type the auto-filled password and not let the computer do it. Which the computer won't let me do. Well, I assume this is the problem, the button simply isn't working. OK then, you win, if anyone wants to hack my heating system (which may not exist), the password is 'Password01.'
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Ben T on October 29, 2018, 12:32:18 pm
Yeah, but my gripe is really using the internet and then ending up having to phone them, which is a bit of a fail. That and the stupid input the 5th, 32nd, and 245th letters of a phrase you don't know to authorize a purchase. Even if I knew the code, I'd have to write it down and count the letters. I'd hazard most people would.

Anyway, I got my boots from somewhere else in the end (more expensive, but c'est la vie), so Blacks lost £150 of my custom. When they appear in the retail failure thread, that'll be my fault.

My other gripe is the meaningless Sorry, something's gone wrong. Whoops indeed. What? Come on, don't be so coy.

And then, of course, sending me the order confirmation.

Mine is 10 letters long - it has to be one you know off by heart. Last pass et al doesn't help you with verified by visa
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Ben T on October 29, 2018, 12:38:21 pm
And, setting up my Hive account for the quantum superpositions order/non-order, I let Safari fill in my password.

Verify account.

Non!

It insists I have to re-type the auto-filled password and not let the computer do it. Which the computer won't let me do. Well, I assume this is the problem, the button simply isn't working. OK then, you win, if anyone wants to hack my heating system (which may not exist), the password is 'Password01.'

BTDT again :) - try typing an extra space on the end then deleting it again. Sometimes the password box has a change event handler (which enables the button) which isn't hooked up until after your password manager auto-fills it. Not always the case but sometimes is.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: ian on October 29, 2018, 12:45:14 pm
Safari doesn't let you touch the password, it just offers you the ability to have Safari set the password and save it to the keychain. Which mostly works and as I'm all Apple these days, passwords are generally seamless and I don't have to remember them. Which is as it should be. Until people fuck with the forms or add weird extra layers on non-security. If you want secure, use two-factor authentication, not another fucking cryptic password.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: bobb on October 29, 2018, 12:52:58 pm
I've never had a problem with the "Verified with...." thing online. I set it up ten years or more ago and it never asks for a password or letters of a pass phrase (On any device - even those that don't belong to me). I guess that's a security flaw in itself. Nick my cards and you're in.

One thing I have noticed though - in my local shop my debit card only works about 50% of the time. Or rather their machine/connection only works about 50% of the time. I have to then go to the ATM at the back of the shop to get cash. I suppose it at least gives me some loose change to tip the pizza delivery men, as I doubt I could tip them with contactless....
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: ian on October 29, 2018, 01:04:55 pm
I swear I asked Barclays and HSBC to take it off my card anyway. Never been asked for years, though sometimes it blips through the page without pause. Maybe because I was using my phone. Anyway, it's stupid asking people to input random letters, because I'm sure no one can, leastways without writing it down and counting letters.

Anyway, I have a Hive account and a 'free' Echo dot and maybe an engineer will come around on the 20th. Maybe not.

I thought while I was there I'd book a smart meter replacement.

Oops, something went wrong...

You know the rest.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Kim on October 29, 2018, 01:08:31 pm
Anyway, it's stupid asking people to input random letters, because I'm sure no one can, leastways without writing it down and counting letters.

That's not actually a problem, given that the random letters thing is intended to defeat keyloggers.  A keylogger can't see your post-it collection.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: ian on October 29, 2018, 01:29:50 pm
Yes, but for a minimal increase in security, it's creating maximal inconvenience. Passwords don't really work, we all know this, merely adding more doesn't fix the issue.

I did like the British Gas help pages though: e-mail is apparently unavailable. What is this thing with making you talk to someone? I know my call is important to you, you keep telling me.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: bobb on October 29, 2018, 01:47:57 pm
Passwords don't really work, we all know this, merely adding more doesn't fix the issue.

Adding more stuff certainly ups the security. It's a bit like using a massive chain lock on your bike. It won't stop a determined theif with a petrol powered angle grinder, but it will stop your casual scrote. Most hackers just have an average abilty, so adding in an extra pass phrase thing will stop them.

I've just tried unlocking my phone using the wrong finger on the fingerprint scanner thing. After 5 attempts it just asks for the pin. Anyone who knows me or has been targetting me would probably be able to guess the pin - or get it after a few attempts (my bad).

The only time I have ever "hacked" anyone was an old (suspected of cheating on me) girlfriend's email account. She had never told me her password, so I just guessed. And you know how many attempts it took? One. It was the name of her cat she had as a child....
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Kim on October 29, 2018, 01:48:23 pm
Yes, but for a minimal increase in security, it's creating maximal inconvenience. Passwords don't really work, we all know this, merely adding more doesn't fix the issue.

Well yes; modern life is rubbish.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Kim on October 29, 2018, 01:56:06 pm
The only time I have ever "hacked" anyone was an old (suspected of cheating on me) girlfriend's email account. She had never told me her password, so I just guessed. And you know how many attempts it took? One. It was the name of her cat she had as a child....

Best one of that ilk I've managed was when presented with a laptop (for a bit of consensual fan and Windows maintenance) without the password.  Password hint was "middle name" so, armed with detailed knowledge of the owner's approximate age and gender, barakta and I correctly guessed "Louise" on the first attempt, thereby saving the effort of having to crack it.


The password-guessing scene in Clear And Present Danger remains one of the rare instances where Hollywood got it right, quite possibly by accident.  Disappointingly that doesn't appear to be on YouTube.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Beardy on October 29, 2018, 02:04:44 pm
As a former sercurity professional, passwords were a bone of considerable contention between the IT security community and Product ‘owners’.

There is, as you probably know, a large body of research into the technical and psychological implementation of passwords. However, the grownups who ‘own’ the projects are neither interested in your knowledge of this body of research or more importantly how that varies from their preconceived opinions on passwords.
So the scheme that usually gets adopted and foisted on the poor end user is that which the grown up ‘just knows’ is the most secure usually against the recommendations of the person notionally responsible for security.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: T42 on October 29, 2018, 02:06:53 pm
WRT passwords, is the most secure still supposed to be four random words separated by punctuation marks?
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Ben T on October 29, 2018, 02:08:39 pm
WRT passwords, is the most secure still supposed to be four random words separated by punctuation marks?

Not as secure as five random words separated by punctuation marks.

e.g. my lastpass password is an 8 or 9 word quote from a tv show, without spaces between the words - it is 40 characters long but only takes a couple or three seconds to type it.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: citoyen on October 29, 2018, 02:14:38 pm
Safari doesn't let you touch the password, it just offers you the ability to have Safari set the password and save it to the keychain. Which mostly works and as I'm all Apple these days, passwords are generally seamless and I don't have to remember them. Which is as it should be. Until people fuck with the forms or add weird extra layers on non-security. If you want secure, use two-factor authentication, not another fucking cryptic password.

The other glitch in this system is when you download an app that can't access the keychain so need to enter the password manually...

Today's tech fail was looking up Xxxxx Place on Google Maps via the phone app. I start typing Xxx... and Google helpfully comes up with Xxxxx Place as an autocomplete suggestion. So I select it from the list and... nope, apparently that place doesn't exist.  :facepalm:

If I try searching for Xxxxx Place via my web browser, it doesn't pretend the road doesn't exist but instead directs me to Xxxxx Street. Which is in the right postcode area, at least.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Ham on October 29, 2018, 02:27:10 pm


I've just tried unlocking my phone using the wrong finger on the fingerprint scanner thing. After 5 attempts it just asks for the pin. Anyone who knows me or has been targetting me would probably be able to guess the pin - or get it after a few attempts (my bad).

8088?

I have noticed that fingerprint scanners and manual labour are not a good combination.

Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Kim on October 29, 2018, 04:16:35 pm
I have noticed that fingerprint scanners and manual labour are not a good combination.

Also camping.  Mine tends to stop working after the third day.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: ian on October 29, 2018, 04:33:11 pm
I don't know who looks at a login page with a userID and password field and thinks, yup, we could improve that. But they should probably stop.

And another, credit card numbers, and the stupid forms that refuse to accept spaces because yes, modern computers couldn't possibly parse those out. (On the other hand there are clever sites that actually present the information exactly as though it's on your credit card, which is how it should be done so I'm not sure what the excuse is for doing it shitly.)

ETA: oh yeah, when I finally got around to calling British Gas, oh,you'll need to call Hive... Can you transfer me? No. I tell you, it was better when we used carrier pigeon, smoke signals, and facsimile.
Title: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: citoyen on October 29, 2018, 05:33:06 pm
Talking of address forms on the web, I came across one the other day that refused to acknowledge my address because my house doesn’t have a number. Haven’t seen that glitch for some years. Used to be a regular occurrence though.

(Easily solved by making up a number - luckily such unsophisticated forms don’t usually have postcode checkers.)
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: ian on October 29, 2018, 06:20:53 pm
Yes, those – we also don't have a number. Mostly seems solved through the magic of a postcode. And the ones that insist on a county when you're in London or simply can't accept you don't have zip code and state.

Anyway, with BG, it turns out I tried to book an appointment that didn't exist. So there. I've no idea why I couldn't book a smart meter fitting, perhaps there are no appointments forever. I figure modern life is won one battle at a time.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Ben T on October 29, 2018, 06:26:23 pm
An example of people making far more of a meal out of things than is necessary.
For most purposes, an address doesn't need to be split out into multiple strings *at all*.
Not only do you not need to designate what line 1, line 2 etc are (Street, District, etc) but you don't even need to split it out into line 1, line 2 etc.
What's wrong with just one single text box ("textarea") that allows carriage returns? It all goes together on the envelope, so why does it need to be separate in the database?
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on October 29, 2018, 07:14:05 pm
Address forms that insist I must live in 'Avon' are  harmless but a bit shit, especially as there hasn't been such a county since about the same time there's been an internet.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on October 29, 2018, 07:14:58 pm
WRT passwords, is the most secure still supposed to be four random words separated by punctuation marks?

Not as secure as five random words separated by punctuation marks.

e.g. my lastpass password is an 8 or 9 word quote from a tv show, without spaces between the words - it is 40 characters long but only takes a couple or three seconds to type it.
Surely that's going to fall foul of the cat's name/Louise thing, ie guessable by someone who knows you.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Greenbank on October 29, 2018, 07:21:04 pm
An example of people making far more of a meal out of things than is necessary.
For most purposes, an address doesn't need to be split out into multiple strings *at all*.
Not only do you not need to designate what line 1, line 2 etc are (Street, District, etc) but you don't even need to split it out into line 1, line 2 etc.
What's wrong with just one single text box ("textarea") that allows carriage returns? It all goes together on the envelope, so why does it need to be separate in the database?

Because a sizeable percentage of people won't put enough info in the textarea. Anyone checking the data will then have to spend ages sorting out the problems.

Storage doesn't have to be the same as how the data is requested, although most people fall for that assumption.

Ask for it in separate things (address line 1, address line 2, ..., postcode) with only the first address line and postcode as mandatory, then store all of the address lines together in the DB, with the postcode separate.

Most of this kind of thing has been dissected before, much like the "falsehoods about X" articles that exist, i.e.
* names: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-names/
* time: https://infiniteundo.com/post/25326999628/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-time
etc.

Ah, here's an addresses one: https://www.mjt.me.uk/posts/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-addresses/
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: mattc on October 29, 2018, 07:28:30 pm
Reading GB's links, I feel sure we can all learn something from them. I'm writing this on my mirror:

"And as Bruce Sterling pointed out, I didn’t even think about what happens when the computer is on a spaceship orbiting a black hole."
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: SteveC on October 29, 2018, 07:52:40 pm
I still feel slightly guilty about programs I've written which contain a non-millennium bug which will fail in 2100.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Ben T on October 29, 2018, 08:09:41 pm
An example of people making far more of a meal out of things than is necessary.
For most purposes, an address doesn't need to be split out into multiple strings *at all*.
Not only do you not need to designate what line 1, line 2 etc are (Street, District, etc) but you don't even need to split it out into line 1, line 2 etc.
What's wrong with just one single text box ("textarea") that allows carriage returns? It all goes together on the envelope, so why does it need to be separate in the database?

Because a sizeable percentage of people won't put enough info in the textarea. Anyone checking the data will then have to spend ages sorting out the problems.

Storage doesn't have to be the same as how the data is requested, although most people fall for that assumption.


I would have thought my theory would hold up in a situation where it's in people's own best interests to fill it in completely, e.g. to make sure a product gets delivered there.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Ben T on October 29, 2018, 08:19:10 pm
Ah, here's an addresses one: https://www.mjt.me.uk/posts/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-addresses/

Another interesting one not listed: everyone knows that village and town names in the UK are duplicated, right? Loads of "Uptons", "Newtons" etc.
But surely POST towns are unique. No!
There are only a few post town names in the UK that are duplicated. Alford (Lincolnshire/Aberdeenshire) is one, can't remember what any others are.

Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: SteveC on October 29, 2018, 08:40:27 pm
I think both the Farnboroughs (Hampshire and Kent) are post towns.

And on to my whinge. UPS. (This would be in the couriers thread but it's really about their website).
I would like to try to change the delivery options. So I follow the instructions on the bit of paper you stuck through the door. That gives a 404 error.
I eventually manage to get onto the site, register twice, (or at least start the process) get to what looks like a relevant page only to be told 'there is an error at the moment please try later'.).
So 'later' I try again. I need to reset the password. And I've been asked to log on about four times and still haven't got to the correct page.
Sigh. And none of it is that difficult, surely.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Beardy on October 29, 2018, 08:57:32 pm
WRT passwords, is the most secure still supposed to be four random words separated by punctuation marks?
The most secure passwords are random charecters from the whole ascii character set with as many characters as the password field will hold, with a different combination being used for each site/system. This is inconvient for the wetware to remember though, so the best approach is a password safe of some sort. I use 1Password because I can use it across different systems whereas Apple keychain is limited to apple kit. Now that Apple have relented and let us fanboys use 3rd party password apps natively on apple products, things have become a lot easier.

More on passwords.
Using word strings is not really that secure in these days of pocket supercomputers, though it probably helps to explain how your passwords get compromised.
These days ‘hackers’ don’t generally try and log in via the user interface trying lots of different passwords, either manually or with a computer. This is mainly because nearly all systems with remote access have a limited number of tries before locking out.
By far the most common and lucrative attack these days is ‘social engineering’ that’s to say the ‘hacker’ calls you up, or sends you an email and asks you for your password/pin. This is now very sophisticated with the ‘hacker’ knowing how to manipulate you emotionally. The next level up on this, is when they target someone, who they will research online first (Facebook, linked in, forums, Twitter, Instagram et al) so the can tailor the emotional manipulation. In this case, no amount of technical password security will help. Why try and fight your way in when you can get someone to live you the keys.
The second mos lucrative approach is an inside job, either instigated by a bad person already inside, or via the usual MICE (Money, Idology, Coercion, Ego) route. Either way, the aim is to get hold of the password table or credit card details. If they get a password file, then this will, most likely, consist of a list of usernames with their passwords. In nearly cases these days the passwords will be encrypted in some way, with ever more sophosticated ways of encryption being used. However, there are a limited number of ways commercially available, so the bad guys will have some idea what to try. BUT, the clever bit is that the encryption is ‘one way’, that is there is no way to decode the password from the stored information. When you enter your password to gain access, what you type is encrypted using the same algorythm and the resultant output is checked against the stored information. So the bad guy has a list of common passwords that he has encrypted using the same algorithm and he checks this list against the password file for matches. An experienced ‘hacker’ will have several lists of common passwords, dictionaries, dictionaries with common substitutions, common phrases and quotes, multiple words with and without punctuation. All encrypted using common one way algorithms. Once he has a match, he’s got your username and access to your account on that system. If you’ve used the same password everywhere, he’s got access to your online life. A recent report I read on a friendly attack suggested that after the first run against the password file yielded 50% of the file using just common passwords which took him a couple of hours. After several more runs, using more complicated dictionary attacks, the friendly ‘hacker’ had 90% of the file at his disposal, though this did take him a little over 36 hours.

So to reiterate, the best advice is to use a password safe ad get into the habit of creating a new password for each system you use. If at all possible, am for randomly generated character strings using upper and lower alpha, numerals, punctuation and other special characters and aim for 20 or more characters.

N.b. The above explanation is grossly simplified but hopefully will encourage you to use more secure passwords if you don’t already.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Pickled Onion on October 29, 2018, 09:26:23 pm
I would have thought my theory would hold up in a situation where it's in people's own best interests to fill it in completely, e.g. to make sure a product gets delivered there.

You'd be surprised - I used to run a little ebay shop and some of the crap some people put as their address beggars belief. Then again, you'd have thought an outfit the size of ebay would be able to autofill addresses from the postcode data like most normal sites can. And another of my pet moans - they insist on a county even though RM stopped using counties in postal addresses in 1996. Same with most other websites. How much dev time is wasted on maintaining pointless drop-down lists of counties? Why design a form based on making up what you think an address contains when you can just go on the RM website and it will tell you what you need to know?
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: TheLurker on October 29, 2018, 09:34:48 pm
An example of people making far more of a meal out of things than is necessary.
For most purposes, an address doesn't need to be split out into multiple strings *at all*.
And then some complete muppet (or smart-arse tester) puts in an address as one continuous line of text and then the application developers get complaints when the printed labels only have the first 20 or 30 so characters from that continuous line because the printers they're using are off the ark and don't wrap text to fit the printable area.  Nor does the item with the label get delivered because the Post Office* are not miracle workers and there are just far too many houses with addresses starting "Bide A Wee 239a Rhodendron Avenue..." for them to stand an earthly when trying to guess where it should go.

*Couriers don't count. They never bloody well deliver stuff even with the correct address.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: bobb on October 29, 2018, 09:44:55 pm
Talking of addresses and postcodes etc. On more than one occasion when I've been working in my garage with the door open I've seen people come flying down the road expecting to be able to get through to the next street. They can't in a car. You can on foot or on a bike, but it would seem Sat-Nav mapping suggests otherwise. It happens very frequently. I might have to take a pointless drive just to check on my own Sat-Nav. Obviously once I get close to home I turn my Sat-Nav off as I know how to get home, ta. But out of towners are obviously being sent down my street by an irritating voice telling them they can get through.

Also - this is more luser than tech fail, but on more than one occassion I've had a car pull up outside my house and call out "Scuse me, mate. Is suchandsuch a road near here?" And I'm all like - "Never heard of it". So I go and help him out. Have a look at his Sat-Nav, then he shows me an address. Now My post code is CM1 2xx. There are parts of Basildon that have CM12 xxx postcodes. You can see where the error has occured. So I'm like "Mate, you're not even in the right town!" Do people not even bother looking at road signs anymore?!
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: bobb on October 29, 2018, 09:58:54 pm
As for the line by line address thing on web forms - many payment gateways insist on you sending the adress details that way. Of course, you could have a textarea and just split the string by line breaks, but as Bullet Tooth Tony once said - you are under estimating the predictabilty of stupidity. That would be an extremely unreliable way of getting the address. I've worked on many e-commerce sites and from experience, there are a lot of humans out there who inexplicably have the cash to purchase products online, but lack the ability to even get their own name right, let alone their address....
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: hubner on November 03, 2018, 10:19:17 am
Re separate boxes for road, town etc, isn't that for data mining?
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Jaded on November 04, 2018, 11:59:20 pm
Address forms that insist I must live in 'Avon' are  harmless but a bit shit, especially as there hasn't been such a county since about the same time there's been an internet.
you have moved to Cuba.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on November 05, 2018, 09:24:07 am
Address forms that insist I must live in 'Avon' are  harmless but a bit shit, especially as there hasn't been such a county since about the same time there's been an internet.
you have moved to Cuba.
Are you havana laugh?
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Jaded on November 05, 2018, 10:17:58 am
Oh, you don’t know about Cuba  ???
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on November 05, 2018, 10:27:21 am
Enough of your barbed'os comments! Today is 5th November, time for a guy ana firework.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: ian on November 05, 2018, 11:34:28 am
I had to reboot Alexa this morning.
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Torslanda on November 05, 2018, 01:03:19 pm
I could help you with that - with the right shoes on.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: Wombat on November 07, 2018, 03:00:05 pm
Talking of address forms on the web, I came across one the other day that refused to acknowledge my address because my house doesn’t have a number. Haven’t seen that glitch for some years. Used to be a regular occurrence though.

(Easily solved by making up a number - luckily such unsophisticated forms don’t usually have postcode checkers.)

I found one the other day that seemed to know the invented number was wrong, and wouldn't accept it.  So, if you know its wrong, why don't you know its not even supposed to be there at all?  Just to complicate matters, we don't even have a street.  Its house name, village, post town (which isn't a town, its a village), postcode.  Luckily there are only 3 houses in the postcode, but some companies haven't updated their databases for years, and they disagree with the Royal Mail database, which is correct, after we corrected it.  It previously had the correct name for our house, an Anglicisation of it (its in Wales, so the name is Welsh not English, OK) and some totally invented name that must have been misheard over the phone.  Now it just has the correct name, which at least has stopped TV licensing from chasing the occupants of the anglicised name house for a TV license for the house that doesn't exist.  I whinged at Santander for not updating the database promptly, and they gave me £60!
Title: Re: Modern Life Is Rubbish (aka ‘Tech fails’)
Post by: ElyDave on November 08, 2018, 06:27:15 am
Credit card expired on Oyster for auto top up, so I changed it for a current one.

E-mail today
"We're sorry we couldn't remove auto top up from your account..."

WTF? It almost like they have a filter to invert anything you actually want.