Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Audax => PBP 2019 => Topic started by: wilkyboy on December 10, 2018, 01:54:45 am

Title: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: wilkyboy on December 10, 2018, 01:54:45 am
The route is already online on www.openrunner.com, use PBPACP2019 in the search field.

Thanks, Ivo  :thumbsup:

I've set up a watch on these routes and I'm maintaining a RideWithGPS route to mirror the official GPX files, with my own notes and one or two "corrections" where I think the official GPX files are not yet quite right — this is from experience of doing the same for 2015; I suspect many of the "wrong" bits won't be corrected in the official GPXes, but WILL be corrected by the crew putting the arrows out.  At the end of the day, the arrows define the route, NOT the GPX files.

Anyways, here:  https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29026813 (https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29026813) — all in one place with cue points and POIs of the controls.

With the whole route in one place, it's interesting to see where the outbound and return routes diverge.  Some of this is the same as 2015, but there are some new bits that look interesting, presumably to bring the distance back up to 1200km with the new start location.  And on that — the official GPXes aren't exactly clear where the start and end actually are!

PBP-first-timers take note that Mortagne-au-Perche is usually a feed-station only on the way out and not an official control; the same with St-Nicolas-du-Pelem.  However, Mortagne IS a full control on the way back, where St-Nicolas is not.  And expect at least one secret control — possibly two — given the extra loops for distance.  And don't forget — it's a mandatory route and you'll be given a time penalty or excluded if caught cutting corners by the many motos patrolling the route.

I'll keep this RWGPS route vaguely up-to-date for now — we're still eight months away, so plenty of time for things to change a bit!  Nearer the time I'll take a closer look and ultimately produce a useful set of various formats [EDIT] and a routesheet (hopefully).

Enjoy  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: La Tortue on December 10, 2018, 02:21:45 am
Thank You!
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: yanto on December 10, 2018, 06:56:39 am
Thanks Nick, I was about to start converting to RWGPS this week, without any previous experience, so would have missed the tweaks!  I for one appreciate the work that you've put in on this.

As an aside, are the "secret controls" actually lit up with huge neon signs saying so, I would hate to sail past them in a sleep deprived stupor!

EDIT: looks a bit confusing in Fougeres, especially doubling back around a couple of roundabouts - I'm guessing that is a RWGPS quirk as often it does?
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: wilkyboy on December 10, 2018, 08:23:28 am
As an aside, are the "secret controls" actually lit up with huge neon signs saying so, I would hate to sail past them in a sleep deprived stupor!

EDIT: looks a bit confusing in Fougeres, especially doubling back around a couple of roundabouts - I'm guessing that is a RWGPS quirk as often it does?

Last time they had crowds of stewards in the road waving riders into the secret control — they weren't short of volunteers, it seems to be such a prestigious event locally that all the old-timers (I mean that honourably) were out and taking part, and seemed to be loving it  :thumbsup:

Fougères is only confusing when you see both routes together — if you saw only the return route then it wouldn't look quite so bad.  However, the organisers do like to take the route through the very centre of towns and villages, and I'm pleased they do, because they are lovely; unfortunately, one-way systems don't always oblige to make the route easy!

Also, I'm waiting to see what they do about the new Fougères bypass — at the moment the route uses the new bypass on the way in and the old inner-ring-road on the way out, and I would've thought they'd use the same in both directions.  So, for the minute I think that's a routing glitch that they haven't noticed, and they'll settle on one or the other both ways.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Ivo on December 10, 2018, 09:09:27 am
In an article in a Fench bike mag Thierry Rivet of the ACP stated that one of the reasons for different outbound and inbound routes was reducing the amount of left turns in dangerous places.
The different out and back routes for the leg between Loudéac and Carhaix is a good idea. Especially on the first part west of Loudéac the roads are quite small and a lot of cyclists riding in both directions were already a saftey concern. I remember from last time that I had to descend a lot slower directly after Loudéac on the way out as there were so many riders already returning. I couldn't use the left lane and decided not to switch on the high beam for the risk of blinding oncoming riders.
And the shorter route does translate to 1h20 minutes extra sleep  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: wilkyboy on December 10, 2018, 09:18:40 am
That's interesting, Ivo, thanks — and that's very much how UK organisers think also, albeit right-turns and straight-over crossroads that lack a central refuge, on busy roads.  It's not always possible to do, but certainly the larger the event and the more visitors from other shores, the more care us organisers take over this sort of thing.

On a similar note, another point I think will change is the outbound route through La Trinité Porhoët at about 425km.  It looks like a lovely little village to pass through and much nicer than its bypass.  However, there would then be a straight-ahead crossing of a main road after the village, which is worse than a left-turn, so I expect we won't get to see the village this time, as we didn't last time, even though last time that was on the GPX (ISTR) — the arrows, though, took us around the village.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Ajax Bay on December 10, 2018, 09:38:38 am
Thank you, Nick Another RwGPS aficionado here. I, like many others (judging from the leg sheets discarded at many LEL controls), appreciated and used (sometimes) your quartered A4 routesheets for LEL.
"At the end of the day, the arrows define the route, NOT the GPX files." Do the arrows authoritatively {source needed} define the mandatory route?
Does ACP produce routesheets of any sort?
So follow the arrows till they (one thinks they've) run out and then navigate back to the gpx track is the motto, then?

Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: wilkyboy on December 10, 2018, 09:55:02 am
Thank you, Nick Another RwGPS aficionado here. I, like many others (judging from the leg sheets discarded at many LEL controls), appreciated and used (sometimes) your quartered A4 routesheets for LEL.
"At the end of the day, the arrows define the route, NOT the GPX files." Do the arrows authoritatively {source needed} define the mandatory route?
Does ACP produce routesheets of any sort?
So follow the arrows till they (one thinks they've) run out and then navigate back to the gpx track is the motto, then?

I did the same style routesheet for PBP2015, and I'm hoping to do so again for PBP2019  :thumbsup: 

ACP does produce a routesheet, but it's in the French style, which is quite different to the more usual style in the UK and I found it lacked the turn-by-turn detail, which is why I bothered to create an alternative in the first place.  The French style seems to be "go to this town and take this road [EDIT] with this D-number, go to that town and take that road [EDIT] with that D-number", which works well in France, where signage is generally very good  [EDIT] and most of the roads are numbered, but there's no corroborating guidance, and generally the actual streets used through the town aren't mentioned, so the assumption appears to be "follow your nose through town".  Since PBP is a mandatory route, I felt something with a bit more detail would be useful ... and over-planning is a thing  :facepalm:

The arrows are EVERYWHERE.  It certainly helps, though, to know how far to the next turn by following progress on a routesheet, or having a pink line to follow.  Somewhere in the Rulez will be a note about the normative route indication, and I'm pretty sure we will be told at some point that it's the arrows, everything else being informative.  You DON'T need a GPS or routesheet to ride PBP, it's just a belt-and-braces thing, and some riders like additional context about where they are and where they're going, instead of blindly following the arrows, lemming-like.

I recall only one location on the return, late at night, where I couldn't see an arrow and had to rely on the GPS to see me through — I don't think it had been nicked, I think I'd just failed to spot it in the gloom, or else the priority went that way, so no arrow required, but the paint on the road wasn't that clear or was non-existent.  Having a backup at that point was certainly reassuring   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: jiberjaber on December 10, 2018, 01:04:27 pm
Subscribing :)  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: john jackson on December 10, 2018, 01:39:29 pm
Thank you, Nick Another RwGPS aficionado here. I, like many others (judging from the leg sheets discarded at many LEL controls), appreciated and used (sometimes) your quartered A4 routesheets for LEL.
"At the end of the day, the arrows define the route, NOT the GPX files." Do the arrows authoritatively {source needed} define the mandatory route?
Does ACP produce routesheets of any sort?
So follow the arrows till they (one thinks they've) run out and then navigate back to the gpx track is the motto, then?
From the 2015 Dossier
ROAD SIGNAGE
- The Paris-Brest-Paris Randonneur is completely signposted with reflective arrow signs to ensure good visibility at
night :
. arrows « BREST » : yellow background, main part of arrow pink with white tip
. arrows « PARIS » : orange background, main part of arrow blue with white tip
. error signs : green background with red X
(error signs are posted soon after crossroads, to save you from taking the wrong direction)
- Road signage does not make it any the less necessary for you to pay attention to the route, especially at night.
Strong front lights in perfect working order are required to light up the reflective arrow signs.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: jiberjaber on December 10, 2018, 03:54:29 pm
Additionally, my recollection from the anciens providing advice at our recent ACME PBP Pubinar was that in the towns some signs are put up higher than expected to prevent them being mistreated so a head torch might be a desirable addition as they might not be picked out by bike mounted lights.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Ivo on December 10, 2018, 09:53:41 pm
Thank you, Nick Another RwGPS aficionado here. I, like many others (judging from the leg sheets discarded at many LEL controls), appreciated and used (sometimes) your quartered A4 routesheets for LEL.
"At the end of the day, the arrows define the route, NOT the GPX files." Do the arrows authoritatively {source needed} define the mandatory route?
Does ACP produce routesheets of any sort?
So follow the arrows till they (one thinks they've) run out and then navigate back to the gpx track is the motto, then?

I did the same style routesheet for PBP2015, and I'm hoping to do so again for PBP2019  :thumbsup: 

ACP does produce a routesheet, but it's in the French style, which is quite different to the more usual style in the UK and I found it lacked the turn-by-turn detail, which is why I bothered to create an alternative in the first place.  The French style seems to be "go to this town and take this road [EDIT] with this D-number, go to that town and take that road [EDIT] with that D-number", which works well in France, where signage is generally very good  [EDIT] and most of the roads are numbered, but there's no corroborating guidance, and generally the actual streets used through the town aren't mentioned, so the assumption appears to be "follow your nose through town".  Since PBP is a mandatory route, I felt something with a bit more detail would be useful ... and over-planning is a thing  :facepalm:

In the pre-GPS time I'd follow my compass through larger places in France. On the Michelin map I'd check in which direction the route leaves town. I entered town, cycled to the hightest (church) tower and then followed a compass bearing to the town's exit in the correct direction. This with the exception of Laon where following the ring road is a wiser decision.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: rusa64 on December 11, 2018, 05:36:35 pm
one or two "corrections" where I think the official GPX files are not yet quite right

I noted divergences inbound vs outbound at St Meen-le-Grand and Sizun, which may be where you have done these corrections. I asked on the PBP Cafe forum about that and received this response:

Hello,

Yes, it is voluntarily especially to avoid that groups of cyclists going towards Brest cross other cyclists who come back from Brest.
Cycling on either side of a small road could be dangerous.
See you soon.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: wilkyboy on December 11, 2018, 05:52:45 pm
one or two "corrections" where I think the official GPX files are not yet quite right

I noted divergences inbound vs outbound at St Meen-le-Grand and Sizun, which may be where you have done these corrections. I asked on the PBP Cafe forum about that and received this response:

Hello,

Yes, it is voluntarily especially to avoid that groups of cyclists going towards Brest cross other cyclists who come back from Brest.
Cycling on either side of a small road could be dangerous.
See you soon.

Interesting, thanks.

That's not where I'd thought of "corrections" — the route obviously takes a different approach and return all the way from Carhaix-Plougeur to Brest and back, except for le Roc, and groups of cyclists filling both sides of smaller roads is an obvious hazard the organisers have to mitigate.

Places like Tinténiac (I think) the official GPX takes the route to an inaccessible part of the school, and I can see why they took us in the back gate last time, and suspect they will do the same again, unless the school has been "reconfigured" since StreetView went by — it was exactly the same with the official GPX back in 2015 (I still have the files and I just checked).  And the other places, of which I can't remember off-hand, are in a similar vein.  At some point I'll list them all, but we're so far away from the event itself that there's little point when everything could yet change.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: rusa64 on December 11, 2018, 06:36:31 pm
Nick -

I also created RwGPS maps from the OpenRunner links. It appears that our routes diverge at those two towns as well.

Agree that things are likely to keep changing up until closer to the event.

Mark
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: wilkyboy on December 11, 2018, 07:09:37 pm
I just checked my version end-to-end against the official GPXes and found just two places where there were non-intentional route-divergences: navigating the one-way system out of the party-town — oh, yes! :thumbsup: — of Villaines-la-Juhel on the return leg, and the underpass to cross the D828 into Dreux.  All the other places were intentional, either from experience last time, or common sense (there are a couple of roads that look like plotting errors and my opinion is that they will be corrected at some point).

There will be no certainty in any of this until the event is ridden.  That's half the fun — after creating an alternative set of GPS files based on the information available and some hunches, the only test will be to ride it, by which point it'll be too late to make any corrections anyway  :demon:

The arrows!  Follow the arrows!  :P
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Ivo on December 11, 2018, 08:10:06 pm
one or two "corrections" where I think the official GPX files are not yet quite right

I noted divergences inbound vs outbound at St Meen-le-Grand and Sizun, which may be where you have done these corrections. I asked on the PBP Cafe forum about that and received this response:

Hello,

Yes, it is voluntarily especially to avoid that groups of cyclists going towards Brest cross other cyclists who come back from Brest.
Cycling on either side of a small road could be dangerous.
See you soon.

Only the word voluntarily is I think a wrong translation from French and should be read as intentional.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: rusa64 on December 11, 2018, 10:45:02 pm
Nick -

See pictures linked below for where your RwGPS route differs from OpenRunner routes in Sizun (outbound) and St Meen-le-Grand (inbound).

Mark

http://www.rusa64.com/rando/Sizun.jpg
http://www.rusa64.com/rando/StMeen.jpg
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: wilkyboy on December 11, 2018, 10:58:36 pm
See pictures linked below for where your RwGPS route differs from OpenRunner routes in Sizun (outbound) and St Meen-le-Grand (inbound).

Thanks, Mark.  As I said, there were only two non-intentional discrepancies (past tense), the rest are my own hunches at this early stage.

I believe Sizun is a mapping mistake — there's no way they would route us down that tiny backroad out of Sizun for just a few hundred metres, not unless they intend to close the square for a street party — which is possible, but I think unlikely. 

As for St Meen-le-Grand, I believe that could be — 50/50 — a routing error (auto-mapping set to Driving, say), or a real thing due to a road closure, or possibly to avoid a left-turn onto the D166, at the cost of a loop all the way around the town AND two level-crossings.  Last time we followed the route in and out as I've given it.

But it's all a guessing game, and will be until we've ridden this thing  ;D
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Ajax Bay on January 31, 2019, 02:49:32 pm
  And expect at least one secret control — possibly two — given the extra loops for distance.  And don't forget — it's a mandatory route and you'll be given a time penalty or excluded if caught cutting corners by the many motos patrolling the route.
Secret control in Ségrie (SE of Villaines)?
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: wilkyboy on January 31, 2019, 02:58:10 pm
  And expect at least one secret control — possibly two — given the extra loops for distance.  And don't forget — it's a mandatory route and you'll be given a time penalty or excluded if caught cutting corners by the many motos patrolling the route.
Secret control in Ségrie (SE of Villaines)?

It wouldn't be a secret if I confirmed that, now would it?!  :demon: 

However, I have no idea at all whether or where such a control would be, only where it was last time (and there wasn't a toilet)  :P
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: phil w on January 31, 2019, 03:17:41 pm

And don't forget — it's a mandatory route and you'll be given a time penalty or excluded if caught cutting corners by the many motos patrolling the route.

In 2015 riding in a peloton of Japanese on the second night, we missed a sign at a turn.  We realized we had gone wrong when we ended up in a pitch black village with nary a sign or sign of life to be seen. The GPS which had been set on distance and speed was changed to map and left there.  The extra distance meant PBP was 1258km, hoping for a shorter one this year.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Greenbank on January 31, 2019, 03:18:48 pm
Secret controls stop being secret very soon thanks to twitter/instagram/etc. Unless you're in one of the front groups you just need to search for "#pbp secret" at each control and you'll quickly find out where they are way before you get there.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: phil w on January 31, 2019, 03:21:25 pm
Secret controls stop being secret very soon thanks to twitter/instagram/etc. Unless you're in one of the front groups you just need to search for "#pbp secret" at each control and you'll quickly find out where they are way before you get there.

I go into radio silence on rides, so that will not be a problem for me.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Ajax Bay on January 31, 2019, 03:30:07 pm
Secret controls stop being secret very soon thanks to twitter/instagram/etc. Unless you're in one of the front groups you just need to search for "#pbp secret" at each control and you'll quickly find out where they are way before you get there.
I am out for a ride (and controlling, eating and replenishing at controls) not poking little electronic devices. #timesink
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Greenbank on January 31, 2019, 03:34:44 pm
Each to their own, but whether or not individuals choose to poke electronic devices whilst riding wasn't really the point I was making.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: phil w on January 31, 2019, 03:37:04 pm
Each to their own, but whether or not individuals choose to poke electronic devices whilst riding wasn't really the point I was making.

Well my point was that you won't know where the secret controls are during the ride, unless you specifically go looking for that info.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Greenbank on January 31, 2019, 03:42:32 pm
Each to their own, but whether or not individuals choose to poke electronic devices whilst riding wasn't really the point I was making.

Well my point was that you won't know where the secret controls are during the ride, unless you specifically go looking for that info.

I overheard someone ahead of me talking about them to another rider and how they discovered them.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on January 31, 2019, 03:49:54 pm
84hr folk often notice the return secret control during their ride outbound.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: tippers_kiwi on January 31, 2019, 04:04:55 pm
I had this picture of a 'Secret' control being something that I could well miss as it might be hidden. Turns out it is not the case and you pretty much can't miss it if you stay on the route, which is mandatory anyway.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: bairn again on January 31, 2019, 04:07:39 pm
last time i managed to convince myself that around the 800km mark i wasn't actually riding on a tarmac road and must have taken a wrong turn.  I soft pedalled for a bit hoping that Id see an arrow or other riders but none appeared.  I stopped and asked myself where I might have missed an arrow and the answer was "nowhere" so I plodded on.  After a bit I started to see other riders, and lo an arrow. 

A gps might be useful in these circumstances (ie when ones brain is in "le demi coma" as that chap in the 2011 DVD put it) but other than that I cant see the need. 
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Greenbank on January 31, 2019, 04:20:50 pm
I had problems with keeping my GPS running (the powerpack I was using was faulty) so mostly navigated via the arrows or by riding around enough people that I rarely had to think where to go (just follow the 10 or so people you can see ahead in the distance).

Ironically when I did get the GPS working again (near the end) I was in a bit of a demi coma state and slavishly followed the pink line, but that happened to be the route going out from the start. I only noticed after 5 minutes as there was an absence of other riders or arrows but didn't bother to backtrack and rejoined the official route a few km from the finish. Nothing bad happened, my ride was still homologated.

I was more annoyed that I didn't record the full ride on my GPS. I like data.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: wilkyboy on January 31, 2019, 04:32:14 pm
I go into radio silence on rides, so that will not be a problem for me.

This ^^^  :thumbsup:  EDIT: much to Mrs WB's annoyance  ::-)

I am out for a ride (and controlling, eating and replenishing at controls) not poking little electronic devices. #timesink

And this ^^^  :thumbsup:

I was more annoyed that I didn't record the full ride on my GPS. I like data.

EDIT: Oh, and this ^^^ — I'm missing 50km or so from my PBP2015 track after sleep-dep inflicted poor-charging-strategy and both my Garmins ran flat  :facepalm:
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: marcusjb on January 31, 2019, 06:47:35 pm
Wilkyboy - I was glad when your garmin died - allowed me to get on with the job of telling you not to panic!
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: wilkyboy on January 31, 2019, 06:59:32 pm
Wilkyboy - I was glad when your garmin died - allowed me to get on with the job of telling you not to panic!

My saviour  ;D
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: bairn again on February 07, 2019, 12:27:22 pm
As ever - cheers Wilkyboy.   :thumbsup:

Its pretty obvious of course but I've just realised that the first and final legs should have a significantly different character to the last few PBPs, with Mortagne coming in 23km less on the outbound than previously and the final leg from Dreux to the finish now a mere 45km rather than 65km.     
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: SPB on February 07, 2019, 01:08:16 pm
As ever - cheers Wilkyboy.   :thumbsup:

Its pretty obvious of course but I've just realised that the first and final legs should have a significantly different character to the last few PBPs, with Mortagne coming in 23km less on the outbound than previously and the final leg from Dreux to the finish now a mere 45km rather than 65km.   

It's a shame they couldn't work things out with St Quentin, I would have enjoyed leaving and arriving back in "Paris".  But I can't deny saving an hour off each end has its upside... 
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: phil w on February 07, 2019, 02:37:31 pm
As ever - cheers Wilkyboy.   :thumbsup:

Its pretty obvious of course but I've just realised that the first and final legs should have a significantly different character to the last few PBPs, with Mortagne coming in 23km less on the outbound than previously and the final leg from Dreux to the finish now a mere 45km rather than 65km.   

It's a shame they couldn't work things out with St Quentin, I would have enjoyed leaving and arriving back in "Paris".  But I can't deny saving an hour off each end has its upside...

Yeah but St Quentin is to Paris as Walthamstow is to London.  You are not missing much.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: SPB on February 07, 2019, 03:04:37 pm
True.  But the little bit of urban riding on the way out and back in would make it feel more like going from and back to Paris.  Starting at Rambouillet is like if LEL started in Hitchin.  (Though I remind myself Paris-Roubaix has started at Compiegne since 1968..)

But kudos to ACP for finding an alternate start location.  That can't have been an easy task at short notice.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: phil w on February 07, 2019, 03:44:13 pm
True.  But the little bit of urban riding on the way out and back in would make it feel more like going from and back to Paris.  Starting at Rambouillet is like if LEL started in Hitchin.  (Though I remind myself Paris-Roubaix has started at Compiegne since 1968..)

But kudos to ACP for finding an alternate start location.  That can't have been an easy task at short notice.

The way to solve is to book accommodation near the Eiffel Tower and then to ride to the start, do PBP, then ride back. Given the late starts this is not such a biggie.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Ajax Bay on February 08, 2019, 10:57:52 am
We are probably going to ride into Paris on the Friday morning (having finished) and catch the train out towards Caen/Cherbourg (ferry) from the St Lazare terminus. As well as visiting the capital the train ticket seems to be less than riding over to Evreux (80km) and getting the (same) train from there.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: SPB on February 08, 2019, 11:42:51 am
True.  But the little bit of urban riding on the way out and back in would make it feel more like going from and back to Paris.  Starting at Rambouillet is like if LEL started in Hitchin.  (Though I remind myself Paris-Roubaix has started at Compiegne since 1968..)

But kudos to ACP for finding an alternate start location.  That can't have been an easy task at short notice.

The way to solve is to book accommodation near the Eiffel Tower and then to ride to the start, do PBP, then ride back. Given the late starts this is not such a biggie.

Given there's so no available accommodation left in Rambouillet, and so much available in Paris, I suspect a fair few will be doing just that.

But I've taken this thread off topic.  Back to the route, we're confident it's going to be shorter this year as a result of the new start?  There's no suggestion we'll be routed an indirect way to the first control to add some km back in?
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Ian H on February 08, 2019, 11:57:20 am
True.  But the little bit of urban riding on the way out and back in would make it feel more like going from and back to Paris.  Starting at Rambouillet is like if LEL started in Hitchin.  (Though I remind myself Paris-Roubaix has started at Compiegne since 1968..)

But kudos to ACP for finding an alternate start location.  That can't have been an easy task at short notice.

The way to solve is to book accommodation near the Eiffel Tower and then to ride to the start, do PBP, then ride back. Given the late starts this is not such a biggie.

Given there's so no available accommodation left in Rambouillet, and so much available in Paris, I suspect a fair few will be doing just that.

There may be spare places in Huttopia cabins at Rambouillet. 
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Wycombewheeler on February 08, 2019, 01:20:26 pm
True.  But the little bit of urban riding on the way out and back in would make it feel more like going from and back to Paris.  Starting at Rambouillet is like if LEL started in Hitchin.  (Though I remind myself Paris-Roubaix has started at Compiegne since 1968..)

But kudos to ACP for finding an alternate start location.  That can't have been an easy task at short notice.

The way to solve is to book accommodation near the Eiffel Tower and then to ride to the start, do PBP, then ride back. Given the late starts this is not such a biggie.

Given there's so no available accommodation left in Rambouillet, and so much available in Paris, I suspect a fair few will be doing just that.

But I've taken this thread off topic.  Back to the route, we're confident it's going to be shorter this year as a result of the new start?  There's no suggestion we'll be routed an indirect way to the first control to add some km back in?

Got to be 45-50km from Eiffel tower to the start. Not so bad on the day itself. But a 100km round trip for bike inspection the day before.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: frankly frankie on February 08, 2019, 01:21:33 pm
We are probably going to ride into Paris on the Friday morning (having finished) and catch the train out towards Caen/Cherbourg (ferry) from the St Lazare terminus. As well as visiting the capital the train ticket seems to be less than riding over to Evreux (80km) and getting the (same) train from there.

I'd rather ride to Evreux any day.  And the station there will be more bike-friendly, though to be fair St Lazare is not too bad in that respect.  Only plus for going to the terminal is if there are several other cyclists around with similar plans (and there may well be), you'll be on first with your bike all nice and hung up and no worries.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: grams on February 08, 2019, 07:39:23 pm
But I've taken this thread off topic.  Back to the route, we're confident it's going to be shorter this year as a result of the new start?  There's no suggestion we'll be routed an indirect way to the first control to add some km back in?

I've just had a compare of the routes - they've added various detours further along the course to make up some of the distance. So it's now 1217 km vs 1230 km in 2015.

But a long part of the start and end are unchanged between Mamers (around 160 km along the 2015 route) until the detour from/to Rambouillet, so for riders who've done it before that part will feel 20 km shorter.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: SPB on February 08, 2019, 07:44:31 pm

I've just had a compare of the routes - they've added various detours further along the course to make up some of the distance. So it's now 1217 km vs 1230 km in 2015.


 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: mzjo on February 08, 2019, 09:18:02 pm
True.  But the little bit of urban riding on the way out and back in would make it feel more like going from and back to Paris.  Starting at Rambouillet is like if LEL started in Hitchin.  (Though I remind myself Paris-Roubaix has started at Compiegne since 1968..)

But kudos to ACP for finding an alternate start location.  That can't have been an easy task at short notice.

The way to solve is to book accommodation near the Eiffel Tower and then to ride to the start, do PBP, then ride back. Given the late starts this is not such a biggie.

Given there's so no available accommodation left in Rambouillet, and so much available in Paris, I suspect a fair few will be doing just that.

But I've taken this thread off topic.  Back to the route, we're confident it's going to be shorter this year as a result of the new start?  There's no suggestion we'll be routed an indirect way to the first control to add some km back in?

Got to be 45-50km from Eiffel tower to the start. Not so bad on the day itself. But a 100km round trip for bike inspection the day before.

There are purists who would insist on you starting PBP on the Champs Elysées and finishing at the top of the Eiffel Tower (with obligation to carry your bike up all the stairs - no lifts). I would have settled for Quai André Citroen myself with a finish on Paris Plage and beer and icecreams. But it would add on a lot of kms Still Paris should mean a start and finish inside the périph' I agree. WTH where it is will do me fine for spectating  ;D
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: djrikki on February 14, 2019, 09:33:36 am
Having looked on the official PBP website they have all the stages available as GPS files downloadable through OpenRunner.

After merging all stages together (https://joewein.net/bike/gpxmerge/) and importing into http://bikehike.co.uk I see a total distance of... 1112.74km.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: simonp on February 14, 2019, 12:57:05 pm
Having looked on the official PBP website they have all the stages available as GPS files downloadable through OpenRunner.

After merging all stages together (https://joewein.net/bike/gpxmerge/) and importing into http://bikehike.co.uk I see a total distance of... 1112.74km.

That's quite the under distance.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: simonp on February 14, 2019, 01:03:28 pm

I added up the stage distances in a spreadsheet - comes to 1214.87km

Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on February 14, 2019, 01:07:33 pm
When PBP was run mostly on major roads (until the '70s), the distance was a little less than 1200km. The 1200km nominal distance was the result of using increasingly smaller roads and a more convoluted route. The time limit used to be 96 hours too.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Bagman on February 14, 2019, 02:31:29 pm
I got 1218km in my spreadsheet
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: djrikki on February 14, 2019, 02:53:09 pm
Yeah clearly something went wrong with the merge tools  :facepalm:
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: SPB on February 14, 2019, 03:15:59 pm
I'm unsure what the distance was in recent years, but the first site Google returned suggests 1241 km.

So we've 25 fewer km then.  Or about an hour's riding.  I'm quite thankful the time limits haven't been reduced accordingly though.  :)
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: simonp on February 14, 2019, 03:26:16 pm
Yeah, about 1240km in previous editions.

1214 or whatever, it's long enough.

Just don't mention under distance qualifiers.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: mattc on February 14, 2019, 06:59:16 pm
So we've 25 fewer km then.  Or about an hour's riding.  I'm quite thankful the time limits haven't been reduced accordingly though.  :)
No wonder there's such a scramble to get on this New Easier PBP.

Not like the good old days, I tell ye ...
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: grams on February 14, 2019, 07:08:17 pm
It’ll be even more embarrassing when I finish (alright, pack) out of time.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: phil w on February 15, 2019, 02:49:35 pm
1230km in 2015. 
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Bobby on February 19, 2019, 07:52:52 am
Is there a list of controls with intermediate/cumulative distances anywhere?  I don’t mind writing it down myself from the different gpx legs, but figured it’s probably something that already exists & i’m Just struggling to find it on the website! :)
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: JulesP on February 19, 2019, 08:17:38 am
The PBP 19 site (Home > The Ride > The route) has maps for each stage that shows controls, with corresponding links to GPX downloads at Openrunner.

https://www.paris-brest-paris.org/index2.php?lang=en&cat=randonnee&page=Etape1

Or, of course, the first post of this thread links to https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29026813.

No info on control timings that I can see, though.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Bobby on February 19, 2019, 08:32:29 am
Just wondered if it existed as a simple table:
Control 1, 50k, 50k
Control 2, 100k, 150k
Etc

For example that would let me understand what this really means:
“We are expecting early starters to ride at least to Carhaix for their first stop”

I’ll make one up looking at the gpx links,
Cheers
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: JulesP on February 19, 2019, 08:41:15 am
I found this for PBP 15, but it needs simple modifications for the 19 route: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DxiHQfQqvSyVIovnnTZu2F-hMHIfsMdfdCuDB4YuIuI/edit#gid=1448585562
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: SPB on February 19, 2019, 08:44:33 am
Just wondered if it existed as a simple table:
Control 1, 50k, 50k
Control 2, 100k, 150k
Etc

For example that would let me understand what this really means:
“We are expecting early starters to ride at least to Carhaix for their first stop”

Controlkmcumulative
Villaines-la-Juhel216216
Fougères89305
Tinténiac54359
Loudéac85444
Carhaix76520
Brest89610
Carhaix84693
Loudéac85778
Tinténiac87865
Fougères54919
Villaines-la-Juhel891008
Mortagne-au-Perche841092
Dreux sh771170
Rambouillet441214

E&OE
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: aidan.f on February 19, 2019, 08:53:50 am
118 K Mortange -Food
217  Villaines-la-JUHEL - Control
306  Fougeres - Control
360  Tinteniac - Control
386  Quedillac - Accueil
445  Loudeac - Control
488  Saint-Nicholas-du-Pelem Accueil
521  Carhaix-Plouguer - Control
605  Brest
610  Lycee Kerichen - Control
-----------------------------------
693  Carhaix-Plouguer - Control
735  Saint  Nicholas-du-Pelem food
779  Loudeac - Control
839  Quedilliac - Accueil
866  Tinteniac - Control
920  Fougeres - Control
1009 Villanes-la-Juhel  - Control
1093 Mortagne - Control
1171 Dreux - Control
1215 Rabouillet

Source - PBP official handbook
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: aidan.f on February 19, 2019, 08:55:15 am
Well we call all agree about that then!, Though I did round down my figures by the odd 0.5 Km.
There  is  less time out and more  back. Someone  will be along soon to  remind us.
Then just  set  up a spread-sheet  to  suit your  start  time  and  calculate the time  splits
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: frankly frankie on February 19, 2019, 09:10:07 am
For example that would let me understand what this really means:
“We are expecting early starters to ride at least to Carhaix for their first stop”

Hard to know without knowing what is meant by "early starters".  Anyway they're only trying to nudge - people will stop where they need to, regardless of what anyone says.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: mattc on February 19, 2019, 09:18:15 am
Quote
To allow more riders to enter PBP'19, we modified the 80h starts. There will be only 5 starts instead of 7, from 04:00pm to 05:00pm.
The special bikes will start at 05:15pm instead of 05:45. By doing so, we will have to more starts for 90h and all start times will put backward by 30 minutes.
We are expecting early starters to ride at least to Carhaix for their first stop, if possible Best and then Fougeres or Villaine on the way back. Otherwise, Loudeac will be a mess despite the extra accommodations that we are implementing.

Hard to know without knowing what is meant by "early starters".  Anyway they're only trying to nudge - people will stop where they need to, regardless of what anyone says.
I interpreted the statement as:
Loudeac will be even worse than most years. Don't say we didn't warn you ...
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: SPB on February 19, 2019, 10:01:19 am
I infer from their statement that they're expecting most people to ride through to late Monday night before sleeping, and that they expect most early starters to have made Carhaix by then. 

Not having done this before I'm guessing, but Loudeac at 445km seems it would appeal to many based on distance.  Plus I believe it's where the Americans have a bag drop.  I can see why they'd want to encourage people to go further if they can.

Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: djrikki on February 19, 2019, 11:44:47 am
118 K Mortange -Food
217  Villaines-la-JUHEL - Control
306  Fougeres - Control
360  Tinteniac - Control
386  Quedillac - Accueil
445  Loudeac - Control
488  Saint-Nicholas-du-Pelem Accueil
521  Carhaix-Plouguer - Control
605  Brest
610  Lycee Kerichen - Control
-----------------------------------
693  Carhaix-Plouguer - Control
735  Saint  Nicholas-du-Pelem food
779  Loudeac - Control
839  Quedilliac - Accueil
866  Tinteniac - Control
920  Fougeres - Control
1009 Villanes-la-Juhel  - Control
1093 Mortagne - Control
1171 Dreux - Control
1215 Rabouillet

Source - PBP official handbook

Thank you for this =) I see "Accueil" translates to "Home", but what does that mean?  Somewhere to sleep?
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on February 19, 2019, 11:58:49 am
Rest stops but not standard controls.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: marcusjb on February 19, 2019, 12:04:24 pm
^ as above.

You are not obliged to stop at them at all; but they are there to take some of the pressure off the controls and so on.

You will often find them much quieter - I slept in a near empty St Nicolas du Pelem in 2011.

Mortagne on the way out is generally chaos for the 90 hours (only group I've seen it in) (used to be 140km in - so maybe more people will bounce it this time and make use of cafe/bar options for a quick coffee).
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: zigzag on February 19, 2019, 12:07:41 pm
the list could be improved even more by including secret control places and distances ;)
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: grams on February 19, 2019, 12:10:07 pm
What happens at Brest? Nothing?
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: mattc on February 19, 2019, 12:10:47 pm
What happens at Brest? Nothing?

You head East.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: simonp on February 19, 2019, 12:20:12 pm
Brest is Lycee Kerichen.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: marcusjb on February 19, 2019, 12:20:28 pm
What happens at Brest? Nothing?

Usually you take some pictures at the bridge coming into town; do a frustrating little loop into town involving lots of traffic and/or sketchy railway lines in the docks.

Then you get the feck out of there and head for Sizun for the first party of the return journey.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: SPB on February 19, 2019, 12:58:18 pm
If (big if) I manage to make Brest without sleeping, I'll be sparko long before I think about heading back!
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Bobby on February 19, 2019, 01:21:24 pm
Thanks SPB & Aidan - much appreciated.

Yeah, I'll stop wherever needed, as a slow rider starting near the front I'll slip back into the bulge anyway... it'll all work itself out I'm sure :)
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: rob on February 19, 2019, 01:47:45 pm
Made it to Carhaix last time before sleeping.   There's a chance I could have pushed on to Brest but stopping was the right decision.

I was in one of the first beds when I crashed out and it was carnage when I left.   A lot of the fast guys had slept at Brest and I arrived there to bodies crashed out everywhere.

I slept at Fougeres on the way back but hope to get a bit further back this time round.

If you're going to sleep and want a bed then stop early and leave early.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: simonp on February 19, 2019, 01:51:47 pm
C group, got to Brest around 1am. No real trouble getting a bed for a few hours. Same at Fougeres - no issue.

Only chaos I really saw was Carhaix on the return. I think this is where I met the 90h bulge.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: rob on February 19, 2019, 01:54:06 pm
C group, got to Brest around 1am. No real trouble getting a bed for a few hours. Same at Fougeres - no issue.

Only chaos I really saw was Carhaix on the return. I think this is where I met the 90h bulge.

Rode with you briefly just before Quedillac on the way back.   I think you stopped for food, though.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: SPB on February 19, 2019, 02:12:44 pm
C group, got to Brest around 1am. No real trouble getting a bed for a few hours. Same at Fougeres - no issue.

Only chaos I really saw was Carhaix on the return. I think this is where I met the 90h bulge.

Do you remember what time your C group left St Quentin that time?  Being trying to second-guess what the range of riding speeds might be within the vedettes. 
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: simonp on February 19, 2019, 02:25:44 pm
C group, got to Brest around 1am. No real trouble getting a bed for a few hours. Same at Fougeres - no issue.

Only chaos I really saw was Carhaix on the return. I think this is where I met the 90h bulge.

Do you remember what time your C group left St Quentin that time?  Being trying to second-guess what the range of riding speeds might be within the vedettes.

Depart was 16:30. I was riding fixed. Stayed with my group for about 80km before being dropped - would have been easier with some gears.

Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: SPB on February 19, 2019, 02:35:38 pm
Fixed!  Respect.

Thanks
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: simonp on February 19, 2019, 02:50:55 pm
Fixed!  Respect.

Thanks

Rob was on fixed as well.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on February 19, 2019, 03:11:58 pm
I was in the B group Vedettes in 2011 and E group (deliberately) vedettes in 2015.  (Tourist in 2007).  The vedettes rode much better in groups, but the B group was too fast and twitchy for me, and I enjoyed the E group - more relaxed but lots of well disciplined riders sharing the pace - was like being on a magic carpet to Mortagne.  Each time I've been ahead of the bulge and been happy that I was because staff at the controls weren't frazzled, there was plenty of space to sleep, and I didn't have to go foraging around for uncertain service in cafes.  If I was riding this year I would have chosen to go in the last vedette group again.  First night stops were Carhaix (2007, 2am), Brest 2011 (9pm), Brest 2015 (10pm).  I found the 4.30 - 5pm starts in 2011 & 2015 much better than the 10pm start in 2007 as it brought Brest within my range.

Appreciate that's not so helpful for riders that aren't going to do 600km in 30 hours (which is easier to do on PBP than on most Audaxes because of the numbers of riders), but the lesson I learned in 2011 was.  I set a goal that was a bit hard for my expectations and didn't enjoy it, whereas in 2015 I stayed more in my comfort zone and went with the flow - and enjoyed it a lot more.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: SPB on February 19, 2019, 03:33:12 pm
Thank you, CrazyEnglishTriathlete!

I plumped for the last vedette wave for exactly those reasons.  I suspect though I may fall off the back quite early, and find myself all alone until the tandems start passing...
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: yanto on February 19, 2019, 05:32:34 pm
you might find a few of

<== these passing first, unfortunately there's no hole in the air for you to tuck into.


Thank you, CrazyEnglishTriathlete!

I plumped for the last vedette wave for exactly those reasons.  I suspect though I may fall off the back quite early, and find myself all alone until the tandems start passing...

Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: SPB on February 19, 2019, 06:18:46 pm
yeah, but they'll be going too fast to say hello to!
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: phil w on February 19, 2019, 06:42:16 pm
What happens at Brest? Nothing?

You get your brevet card stamped and leave as anything else is a time suck with little gain.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Ivo on February 19, 2019, 06:54:02 pm
Made it to Carhaix last time before sleeping.   There's a chance I could have pushed on to Brest but stopping was the right decision.

I was in one of the first beds when I crashed out and it was carnage when I left.   A lot of the fast guys had slept at Brest and I arrived there to bodies crashed out everywhere.

I slept at Fougeres on the way back but hope to get a bit further back this time round.

If you're going to sleep and want a bed then stop early and leave early.

Mostly I try to be near Carhaix before I sleep. I like to sleep late and prefer to have the hilly section after Loudéac done. Last time I slept in one of the villages shortly before Carhaix. When arriving at the Carhaix control it was nearly empty. I was nicely between the two bulges.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Exit Stage Left on February 19, 2019, 06:59:08 pm
What happens at Brest? Nothing?

Up to 2007 you used to get a choice of a complimentary drink; water, a soft drink or a beer. It was pointed out that anyone not choosing the beer should have been disqualified for having a dangerous mental condition.

I was very grumpy when I found that you had to pay for a beer in 2011, it just wasn't the same.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: grams on February 19, 2019, 07:19:59 pm
I'm assuming people talking about there being something at Brest are talking about the "610  Lycee Kerichen - Control" and not the "605  Brest" from the control list?
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Exit Stage Left on February 19, 2019, 07:28:24 pm
I'm assuming people talking about there being something at Brest are talking about the "610  Lycee Kerichen - Control" and not the "605  Brest" from the control list?

605 Brest will be a sign saying Brest. A photo opportunity.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@48.3973804,-4.4368059,3a,19.3y,308.34h,93.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5KZEEYgDRES5Sfo4lZd3ng!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Ivo on February 19, 2019, 10:21:18 pm
I'm assuming people talking about there being something at Brest are talking about the "610  Lycee Kerichen - Control" and not the "605  Brest" from the control list?

605 Brest will be a sign saying Brest. A photo opportunity.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@48.3973804,-4.4368059,3a,19.3y,308.34h,93.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5KZEEYgDRES5Sfo4lZd3ng!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0

We missed the sign in 2011 and 2015. In 2007 the route passed it:

(https://fotoalbum.dds.nl/ivo_m/pbp2007/large/IMGP3856.jpg)

Yes, we ocassionally had sun in 2007.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: wilkyboy on February 20, 2019, 12:42:09 pm
Well we call all agree about that then!

Ha!  Nonsense!  THIS is more like it (https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29026813?beta=false)  ;)

FEED STATNMortagne-au-Perche117.7 km
CONTROL 1Villaines-la-Juhel216.6 km
CONTROL 2Fougères306.0 km
CONTROL 3Tinténiac360.3 km
FEED STATNQuédillac386.9 km
CONTROL 4Loudéac445.4 km
FEED STATNSt-Nicolas-du-Pelem489.1 km
CONTROL 5Carhaix-Plouguer522.1 km
CONTROL 6Brest611.6 km
CONTROL 7Carhaix-Plouguer695.6 km
FEED STATNSt-Nicolas-du-Pelem736.6 km
CONTROL 8Loudéac781.8 km
FEED STATNQuédillac842.1 km
CONTROL 9Tinténiac868.5 km
CONTROL 10Fougères922.7 km
CONTROL 11Villaines-la-Juhel1011.8 km
CONTROL 12Mortagne-au-Perche1096.2 km
CONTROL 13Dreux1173.7 km
ARRIVÉE1218.4 km

This includes the movements into the controls to get to bike parks, and one or two sections that ACP-central don't seem to be fully aware of that the local organisers will — necessarily — implement on the ground.

That said, once we start wobbling all over the road in the grip of sleep-dep then our ridden-distance is going to be a little over anyway ;)
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: SPB on February 20, 2019, 01:22:00 pm
Ah, but if you've included movements into and out of the non-controls in your list aren't you over-stating distance?  :P

Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: wilkyboy on February 20, 2019, 01:25:31 pm
Ah, but if you've included movements into and out of the non-controls in your list aren't you over-stating distance?  :P

Haha — nice one, good point  ;D :thumbsup:

As it happens, since this is a mandatory-route event then you MUST pass through Mortagne-au-Perche and St-Nicolas-du-Pelem sites.  Quédillac is right next to the road and the distance into the bike park is NOT included — I've just put a beep on the route as you pass.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: SPB on February 20, 2019, 01:33:00 pm
 :D
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: simonp on February 20, 2019, 01:34:28 pm
Hmm. Sub 70 is 17.5 overall.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: rob on February 20, 2019, 01:59:43 pm
Hmm. Sub 70 is 17.5 overall.

Hmmm.   71h56m last time.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Greenbank on February 26, 2019, 10:29:45 pm
Thank you for this =) I see "Accueil" translates to "Home", but what does that mean?  Somewhere to sleep?

Google Translate gives a single translation of "accueil" as "home", which shows the danger of trusting a simple translation like that.

Accueil also means "reception" or "hospitality". I wouldn't rely on there being dedicated dorms like some of the other controls, but there might be places where you can lie down and sleep (if you can sleep with noise going on around you). Mostly it'll just be some food/water/toilets.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Exit Stage Left on February 26, 2019, 10:41:06 pm
Accueillir is the verb 'to welcome'. So Accueil is literally a welcome point. So it's use in this context is to indicate hospitality, without being a formal control point.

You don't have to stop, but you're welcome to. It's also used at Semaine Federale, for feeding and entertainment stops.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Wycombewheeler on April 12, 2019, 06:40:52 pm
Accueillir is the verb 'to welcome'. So Accueil is literally a welcome point. So it's use in this context is to indicate hospitality, without being a formal control point.

You don't have to stop, but you're welcome to. It's also used at Semaine Federale, for feeding and entertainment stops.

I notice it is quite close to another control. Does this mean the previous control is just a place to get card validated with few other facilities?
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: wilkyboy on April 12, 2019, 06:43:31 pm
Accueillir is the verb 'to welcome'. So Accueil is literally a welcome point. So it's use in this context is to indicate hospitality, without being a formal control point.

You don't have to stop, but you're welcome to. It's also used at Semaine Federale, for feeding and entertainment stops.

I notice it is quite close to another control. Does this mean the previous control is just a place to get card validated with few other facilities?

No.  ALL the controls are fully furnished; the hospitality controls are just extras, presumably laid on by the locals to get in on the excitement.

And "close" is a relative term when considering most riders will be three days in at the point they get to Quédillac for the second time.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Ivo on April 12, 2019, 11:19:30 pm
Basically they are overflow area's. Since especially Loudéac tends to be overrun, both Quedillac and St. Nicolas are extra sleeping points to accomodate more people. Offering a point midway encourages riders to set out for at least half a stage and not stay in Loudéac, further cluttering up the place.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Redlight on April 14, 2019, 11:28:29 am
Basically they are overflow area's. Since especially Loudéac tends to be overrun, both Quedillac and St. Nicolas are extra sleeping points to accomodate more people. Offering a point midway encourages riders to set out for at least half a stage and not stay in Loudéac, further cluttering up the place.

Worth noting if you at the full value end of the ride that the catering at these controls is somewhat limited so don't rely on them as your only food options on the return leg.  Quedillac had run out of almost everything when I reached it eastbound in 2015 - and there were still a lot of riders behind me at that stage.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: phil w on April 17, 2019, 03:33:20 pm
I slept in Quedillac reception on the way back last time.  That's when I couldn't find my bike on waking as the front of the bulge had caught me up whilst I slept. Was trying to get back to Tintiniac before sleeping but got the dozies so stopped.  I then ate when I got to Tintiniac after my sleep.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: wilkyboy on April 17, 2019, 03:35:57 pm
I slept in Quédillac on the way back.  Face-down on the bar waiting for my pizza to arrive ...

Beats the sleep on the way out in Gorron: face-down in my omelette.  There's a photo somewhere, which I've never actually seen  ???
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Ivo on April 17, 2019, 04:31:43 pm
I also slept on the way back in Quedillac. But towards the end of the night.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: wilkyboy on May 21, 2019, 12:17:31 am
A couple of route changes in the last few days:

— Stage 9 now heads into Gouarec before heading up the D5, making the stage slightly longer;
— Stage 15 now turns into the Bergerie nationale de Rambouillet, thru the archway; although in make this change, the route now appears to head the wrong way down one-way streets in Rambouillet, which doesn't seem quite right  ::-)
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: wilkyboy on July 18, 2019, 01:31:24 pm
There have been no more changes to ACP's official GPS files in the past couple of months, so I've published my versions of the GPS files, in both GPX and TCX and various point-counts (for legacy devices).  Also a RideWithGPS link for pinning.

It's all here, as well as my usual UK-stylee routesheet (https://www.camaudax.uk/pbp/2019/)  8) :thumbsup:
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Deano_44 on July 18, 2019, 03:15:53 pm
There have been no more changes to ACP's official GPS files in the past couple of months, so I've published my versions of the GPS files, in both GPX and TCX and various point-counts (for legacy devices).  Also a RideWithGPS link for pinning.

It's all here, as well as my usual UK-stylee routesheet (https://www.camaudax.uk/pbp/2019/)  8) :thumbsup:

Thanks for the route sheet and especially for pointing out the McDonalds!  :)
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: phil w on July 18, 2019, 03:57:09 pm
I went to PBP and all I got was Le Burger....
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: bairn again on July 18, 2019, 09:39:23 pm
superb work Nick.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: dubya on July 19, 2019, 09:47:22 am
Many thanks Nick.  It is very generous of you to prepare these gpx tracks, they offer a reassurance while riding the route. 

I plan on riding using the route arrows and leave the Garmin tracking while I follow the arrows, if I wonder off course the Garmin will (hopefully) sound the alarm!
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: phil w on July 19, 2019, 02:01:27 pm
Thanks, gone for the 2 x 600km set.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: andyp on July 28, 2019, 10:32:20 pm
Thanks Nick! ...that's all loaded up onto my etrex perfectly, and is much appreciated.

I've gone for the set of separate stages: there's something quite satisfying about loading up a new one at each control*, and something manageable about never having more than 70 or 80km to go  :thumbsup:

* top tip: load up the new track when you arrive at the end of a stage, that way you won't miss the chance to leave with a group, or be a danger faffing about getting the track loaded as you pull out.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: zigzag on July 29, 2019, 07:23:48 am
i'll be making customised courses, ending around 2-3km before controls - it gives enough time to load a new course and also indicates when to move towards the front of the group. will be using wilkyboy's full route as a template :thumbsup:
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: wilkyboy on August 07, 2019, 11:43:56 am
It's all here, as well as my usual UK-stylee routesheet (https://www.camaudax.uk/pbp/2019/)  8) :thumbsup:

And I've added a side-by-side version, so you can use it single-folded to A5 on top of a bar-bag with two A6 panels side-by-side.

From experience, if you're folding all the way down to A6 then you'll want the "natural" or "vertical" version, as this enables flipping the corner to see what's over the page, which side-by-side does not.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: alotronic on August 07, 2019, 11:49:46 am
It's all here, as well as my usual UK-stylee routesheet (https://www.camaudax.uk/pbp/2019/)  8) :thumbsup:

And I've added a side-by-side version, so you can use it single-folded to A5 on top of a bar-bag with two A6 panels side-by-side.

From experience, if you're folding all the way down to A6 then you'll want the "natural" or "vertical" version, as this enables flipping the corner to see what's over the page, which side-by-side does not.

Awesome work my friend! When do you see the family?!?!?!?
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: MartynWheeler on August 09, 2019, 02:15:00 pm
There have been no more changes to ACP's official GPS files in the past couple of months, so I've published my versions of the GPS files, in both GPX and TCX and various point-counts (for legacy devices).  Also a RideWithGPS link for pinning.

It's all here, as well as my usual UK-stylee routesheet (https://www.camaudax.uk/pbp/2019/)  8) :thumbsup:

Thanks! All loaded onto my wahoo.

On a related note,

Does anyone know if I can record the ride as one file on a wahoo device or is it going to be best to split it up?  Biggest ride recorded so far was my qualifying 600.

Cheers
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: kegere on August 09, 2019, 03:20:45 pm
There have been no more changes to ACP's official GPS files in the past couple of months, so I've published my versions of the GPS files, in both GPX and TCX and various point-counts (for legacy devices).  Also a RideWithGPS link for pinning.

It's all here, as well as my usual UK-stylee routesheet (https://www.camaudax.uk/pbp/2019/)  8) :thumbsup:

Thanks! All loaded onto my wahoo.

On a related note,

Does anyone know if I can record the ride as one file on a wahoo device or is it going to be best to split it up?  Biggest ride recorded so far was my qualifying 600.

Cheers

I'm going to try for a single ride & cross my fingers.

However for the route I'm going to reload per control. For a couple of 600's including WCW this wasn't an issue however on Willesden's Last Gasp I was finding it hanged (around 4 times) when clicking back to the map page. Near the end of the ride I met another rider who had the same issue, he had redrawn the route in Strava (manually) so it wouldn't have been an identical file, my guess the route just had too many points due to road profile but this is nearly impossible to prove.

To recover from the hanging I had to hold the power button down for ~30s to force reboot, the route then reloaded and continued so I ended with a single 600k file (with tiny bits missing during reboot). I believe the other rider just waited for the device to auto-reboot, from what he said this took minutes (so a slow watchdog timer...).
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: wilkyboy on August 09, 2019, 03:42:22 pm
FWIW, Garmins just record right through*  :thumbsup:



* although it does help to STOP + START every 300km or so, just in case your specific device still suffers from the dreaded 10k [recorded] points issue  :facepalm:
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: FifeingEejit on August 09, 2019, 03:45:55 pm
FWIW, Garmins just record right through*  :thumbsup:



* although it does help to STOP + START every 300km or so, just in case your specific device still suffers from the dreaded 10k [recorded] points issue  :facepalm:

Not to mention that if a Garmin EDGE does crash, often the only chance or recovery is to connect to USB from a computer, grab the "working" FIT file and hope it is recoverable from that, all before you can restart recording...
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: simonp on August 09, 2019, 04:44:03 pm
Need to download the PBP time in hand data field before I go to France.

It knows about the control times for 80h, 84h and 90h. You do have to start the clock at the start and keep it running. I reckon I'll risk it.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: phil w on August 09, 2019, 04:51:33 pm
My eTrex 20 hung once (on a 400 qualifier) back in 2015.  Post mortem showed it was definitely the 10,000 point limit. Since then I've set it to record less often and to archive at midnight, and all tracks to navigate are always filtered below 10,000 points. It hasn't hung now for four years. The map draw / update is also quicker

I'm going for the two 600km tracks. After all the cause of the crashing / hanging problem is not the distance but the number of points. Besides its only a backup in case signs are missing or you don't spot them. I did an extra 22km last time after being in a group of Japanese that went off route.  Arriving in a deathly quiet village with no lights, signs of life, or signs gave the game away.  Retraced and back on route.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Ian H on August 09, 2019, 05:04:33 pm
My eTrex 20 hung once (on a 400 qualifier) back in 2015.  Post mortem showed it was definitely the 10,000 point limit. Since then I've set it to record less often and to archive at midnight, and all tracks to navigate are always filtered below 10,000 points. It hasn't hung now for four years. The map draw / update is also quicker

I'm going for the two 600km tracks. After all the cause of the crashing / hanging problem is not the distance but the number of points. Besides its only a backup in case signs are missing or you don't spot them. I did an extra 22km last time after being in a group of Japanese that went off route.  Arriving in a deathly quiet village with no lights, signs of life, or signs gave the game away.  Retraced and back on route.

I've got the route down to 319kb.  As above, Etrex set to record less often and to archive every so often.  Not that I expect to have to look at it during the event.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: marcusjb on August 09, 2019, 07:37:20 pm
Getting this all downloaded and starting to think about travel etc.

Thanks Nick - always nice to have the backup of the GPX files if you suddenly find yourself cycling in the peace and quiet and, therefore, know you must be off route!
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: wilkyboy on August 09, 2019, 08:06:07 pm
Not to mention that if a Garmin EDGE does crash, often the only chance or recovery is to connect to USB from a computer, grab the "working" FIT file and hope it is recoverable from that, all before you can restart recording...

A trick is to set it to record to the card — when it crashes, you can reset and then set a new recording without connecting to a computer; the old one should be intact on the card.

That said, I don't bother with my 1030 — it has its foibles, but crashing doesn't appear to be one of them.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: simonp on August 09, 2019, 09:58:13 pm
That said, I don't bother with my 1030 — it has its foibles, but crashing doesn't appear to be one of them.

 :o no no no no no! He’s only gone and unleashed the ancient curse of the lost software engineer.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: AndyCribb on August 10, 2019, 01:15:13 pm
When I check the route sheet to RWGPS, the first 3 controls are significantly different to each other. From control 4 onward it converges. EG Control 1 on the Route plan says 258k but on RWGPS its only 216k.....What have I misunderstood ?
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: simonp on August 10, 2019, 01:34:35 pm
When I check the route sheet to RWGPS, the first 3 controls are significantly different to each other. From control 4 onward it converges. EG Control 1 on the Route plan says 258k but on RWGPS its only 216k.....What have I misunderstood ?

The start has moved by about 40km west. I suspect the route sheet is in error.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: wilkyboy on August 10, 2019, 02:04:13 pm
When I check the route sheet to RWGPS, the first 3 controls are significantly different to each other. From control 4 onward it converges. EG Control 1 on the Route plan says 258k but on RWGPS its only 216k.....What have I misunderstood ?

The start has moved by about 40km west. I suspect the route sheet is in error.

If you're referring to the official, two-page routesheet or route plan from ACP then likely they haven't updated it since the move to Rambouillet, 40km west of the original St Quentin start.

If you're referring to my unofficial, 12-page routesheet then I deny all responsibility ...
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: simonp on August 10, 2019, 02:17:46 pm
When I check the route sheet to RWGPS, the first 3 controls are significantly different to each other. From control 4 onward it converges. EG Control 1 on the Route plan says 258k but on RWGPS its only 216k.....What have I misunderstood ?

The start has moved by about 40km west. I suspect the route sheet is in error.

If you're referring to the official, two-page routesheet or route plan from ACP then likely they haven't updated it since the move to Rambouillet, 40km west of the original St Quentin start.

If you're referring to my unofficial, 12-page routesheet then I deny all responsibility ...

The official route sheet in the dossier says 144km to Mortagne au Perche. I think that's way too long given the moved start, and the open runner route on their website has it at 117km.

Edit: what I'm seeing is actually a formatting error in the route sheet. The control distances are correct, but are not lined up with the instructions. This seems to only happen for the first column, so it's incorrect until Quedillac when I look. The issue varies between my Mac in Pages and Google Drive; I don't have Word here to compare.

However, the controls are highlighted in bold in the distances. So they are Mortagne 118km Villaines 217km, Fougeres 306km, etc.

This lines up with the RWGPS distances you quote (give or take the odd km). So both are correct, as far as I can see.

Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Ajax Bay on August 10, 2019, 09:33:10 pm
The official route sheet in the dossier says 144km to Mortagne au Perche. I think that's way too long given the moved start, and the open runner route on their website has it at 117km.

Edit: what I'm seeing is actually a formatting error in the route sheet. The control distances are correct, but are not lined up with the instructions. This seems to only happen for the first column, so it's incorrect until Quedillac when I look. The issue varies between my Mac in Pages and Google Drive; I don't have Word here to compare.

However, the controls are highlighted in bold in the distances. So they are Mortagne 118km Villaines 217km, Fougeres 306km, etc.

This lines up with the RWGPS distances you quote (give or take the odd km). So both are correct, as far as I can see.
View the routesheets (out and back) in Word and they (eg kilometerages) are perfect (and paste neatly into xl btw, for deleting unnecessary lines).

99   13   LONGNY-au-PERCHE   
118   19   MORTAGNE-au-PERCHE   D931
124   6   PARFONDEVAL   
140   16   SURE   
142   2   MAMERS (bypass) …..   D311
144   2        Junc D311 x D300 ….   D300
154   10   COURGAINS   
170   16   BEAUMONT-sur-SARTHE   
178   8   SEGRIE ......   D21
190   12   FRESNAY-sur-SARTHE ....   D15
196   6   SOUGE-le-GANELON   
202   6   SAINT-PAUL-le-GAULTIER   
212   10   AVERTON   
217   5   VILLAINES-la-JUHEL     Control   
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: FifeingEejit on August 11, 2019, 12:31:51 am
Not to mention that if a Garmin EDGE does crash, often the only chance or recovery is to connect to USB from a computer, grab the "working" FIT file and hope it is recoverable from that, all before you can restart recording...

A trick is to set it to record to the card — when it crashes, you can reset and then set a new recording without connecting to a computer; the old one should be intact on the card.

That said, I don't bother with my 1030 — it has its foibles, but crashing doesn't appear to be one of them.

510s don't have cards!
Newer and older Edges may however.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: phil w on August 11, 2019, 01:24:47 pm
Latest OSM mapping for France plus all the GPX files (I've opted for 2 X 600km), including for the ride down and back, now loaded on GPS. Did an extra 22km last time after going off route with a group of Japanese riders. This time I'll keep the track running in the background and pay more attention at the back.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: earthloop on August 12, 2019, 03:56:24 pm
I made a google maps version of wilkyboy's route for my phone, anyone else who wants to use an android phone for backup nav is welcome to grab it:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1QKBpB8t5zNNzuhtrRR0yRW-3wBIN4MlY
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: ramchip on August 12, 2019, 07:24:20 pm
Did I see the PBP .gpx filees already cut in 2 x 600k and 4 x 300k somewhere or did I dream it?
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: jiberjaber on August 12, 2019, 07:43:34 pm
Did I see the PBP .gpx filees already cut in 2 x 600k and 4 x 300k somewhere or did I dream it?

Yes  - On Nick's page link further up thread.


For them that like all the cues I've used Nick's stage by stage files (thanks to Nick  :thumbsup: ) and added them in here:

https://ridewithgps.com/events/100551-pbp#routes/30824018/preview
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: PhilB on August 13, 2019, 04:41:51 pm
My eTrex 20 hung once (on a 400 qualifier) back in 2015.  Post mortem showed it was definitely the 10,000 point limit. Since then I've set it to record less often and to archive at midnight, and all tracks to navigate are always filtered below 10,000 points. It hasn't hung now for four years. The map draw / update is also quicker

I'm going for the two 600km tracks. After all the cause of the crashing / hanging problem is not the distance but the number of points. Besides its only a backup in case signs are missing or you don't spot them. I did an extra 22km last time after being in a group of Japanese that went off route.  Arriving in a deathly quiet village with no lights, signs of life, or signs gave the game away.  Retraced and back on route.

My Etrex 20 is currently set to record More Often, which is the suggested option in the aukadia.net set up guide

What frequency does the Less Often option save at?

There's also a Normal option between Less Often and More Often
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: phil w on August 13, 2019, 04:58:24 pm
It will vary depending on how twisty a route is.

Looking back over rides in recent months

Twisty Route ~ 13,000 track points every 400km.
More typical route ~ 7,000 track points every 400km.

It was when set to normal recording that it locked up at 10,000 track points and about 360km into a 400km Audax.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: Jay_70_One on August 14, 2019, 03:29:03 pm
There have been no more changes to ACP's official GPS files in the past couple of months, so I've published my versions of the GPS files, in both GPX and TCX and various point-counts (for legacy devices).  Also a RideWithGPS link for pinning.

It's all here, as well as my usual UK-stylee routesheet (https://www.camaudax.uk/pbp/2019/)  8) :thumbsup:

i cant thank you enough for taking the time to do this, with a personal life in upheaval at the minute, to be able to go straight to this was a massive reassurance. Thanks mate  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: T42 on August 16, 2019, 02:21:07 pm
They just changed the return route after Dreux because of road works at Marsauceux:

https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67966825_10156914349113780_8061419813752274944_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQmvc8CPhCCNuO4OpzkalPuu1n3ExEjmVnH0r5RP4UqBLRg3Z5shN6Vnl2YR6KKnGQU&_nc_ht=scontent-frx5-1.xx&oh=0bb9bf1b19eec3a11df6c3050d5314f5&oe=5DD005AE

https://www.openrunner.com/r/9220697
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: wilkyboy on August 17, 2019, 06:19:17 am
Ay, I've updated my RWGPS route, which will please Wahoonians, but unfortunately I can't access my scripts for slicing'n'dicing the route into all the different lengths and formats, and I'm not about to attempt that by hand.

So, just remember that my GPS tracks and the routesheet for stage 15 are completely and utterly wrong once you leave Brest and you'll have to follow the arrows, or download ACP's GPS track for stage 15  ::-)

C'est la vie.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: simonp on August 17, 2019, 06:41:17 am
I traced the ACP file for the finial stage on RWGPS website on my phone. So this adds turn by turn cue points.

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/30861662

Caveat emptor.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 ROUTE
Post by: markldn on August 18, 2019, 01:45:41 pm
Thanks for this Wilky  :thumbsup: