Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Audax => PBP 2019 => Topic started by: dubya on June 17, 2019, 10:10:11 pm

Title: Bag dilemma
Post by: dubya on June 17, 2019, 10:10:11 pm
I've my 600 qualifier this weekend (Flatland Friends) and whilst preparing my bicycle I have have finally been confronted with a dilemma which I've been avoiding for sometime; which bags will I use on PBP?

For FF I think it would be prudent to ride with my PBP setup to iron out any issues, but here's the thing.

I've a super C saddle bag with a whopping 23L capacity but weighs in at 910 grams plus the expedition rack 489gram and Topeak fuel tank bag 0.75L  150grams

Total package 23.75L + 1450grams

or

Super C saddleback 6L 460grams + karrimor handlebar bag 5L 630grams

Total package 11L + 1090grams

Dilemma comes down to this, is a Super C too heavy to lug around PBP?  This is the thing, I do like the additional space it offers should I decide to grab a baguette rather than weight in a queue.  (I'm really bad at queuing, think TVs "Grumpy old men at Christmas"). I also find the saddleback a bit of a faff getting kit in and out.

I'm kinda trying to avoid buying new kit just for PBP too. 

I'd be keen to hear from anyone who has used a super C on PBP before.
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: wilkyboy on June 17, 2019, 10:34:44 pm
I'll be using a Super C AUDAX, i.e. the 9L.  It's actually the Lightweight, but the size is the same.  I WON'T be lugging it around the controls — I'm hatching a scheme to get me some lightweight material and make up a custom musette to fit the essentials to carry over my shoulder (i.e. bottles, brevet, extra layers, nothing else).  Well under 1kg for the saddlebag, Bagman Sport and a small top-tube bag.

A quick strap can hold a baguette to the top of any bag — no need to get fancy, you'll be eating it in short order.  Alternatively, just put it under the lid of the saddlebag and cinch the straps down — it won't be going anywhere.  Last time I think I just put it on top of my front bag with a bungie over the top (I'm not using a front bag this time).

I'll also have a small (tiny) waterproof bag with a change of shorts and jersey strapped to the bagman in front of the bag, effectively under the saddle (the waterproof bag weighs a few grammes — think stuffsac).  It will need to be accessed exactly once.

24L sounds profligate; 11L sounds more realistic.

And, FWIW, you'll still have to queue for baguettes in the café, just not quite as long as queuing for hot food in the restaurant.
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: cygnet on June 17, 2019, 10:40:49 pm
Bottles just get shoved up your jersey at controls surely. No need for a bag for that.
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: Wycombewheeler on June 17, 2019, 10:45:00 pm
I wouldn't worry about the weight of the bag compared to the weight of the extra 10litres of stuff you'll be fitting in there just because you can.
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: Ian H on June 17, 2019, 10:57:07 pm
I have never, ever weighed any part of a bike, or anything attached to it.  The main thing with luggage is to keep it small enough that you can only carry the essentials.
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: Phil W on June 17, 2019, 11:02:41 pm
Try the setup with the lower capacity just to see if you can fit everything you think you will need in that configuration.  Try packing your setup in next couple of days before weekend. That will tell you what you need to know about capacity. Then you'll know out of your choices which best suits your needs. Don't choose purely on weight.
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: grams on June 17, 2019, 11:22:00 pm
The wind resistance of the big bag will be worse than its weight.

I’ve taken to using a packable backpack (https://www.decathlon.co.uk/ultra-compact-hiking-backpack-10l-blue-id_8348925.html) for carrying food and other random overflow stuff.
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: rob on June 18, 2019, 08:15:21 am
I took a carrier bag last time.   Took the required bits from my saddlebag into the control.
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: wilkyboy on June 18, 2019, 09:34:52 am
I took a carrier bag last time.   Took the required bits from my saddlebag into the control.

From experience, I want something that is hands-free and attached to me  ::-)

I’ve taken to using a packable backpack (https://www.decathlon.co.uk/ultra-compact-hiking-backpack-10l-blue-id_8348925.html) for carrying food and other random overflow stuff.

I did have a tiny packable rucksac from Alpkit a while back ... it turned out to be too tiny and it's somewhere, just not anywhere I've looked since then  :facepalm: 

Anyway, thanks Grams — that looks like it might fit the bill as a replacement.  Fabric sourced and stitched — by someone else — and stocked in Cambridge  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: alotronic on June 18, 2019, 01:40:04 pm
I went with a large Nelson Carradice last time and all the sh*t I packed in it.... well not great. Keep it small and take a few straps. I have taken to using a musette lately for stops and random extra food pickup and guess what, the bag designed to hold small amounts of food on the bike is perfect for just that :-)

I will be: Small (5l) barbag - I just like to have stuff to hand - a 10l bikepack saddle bag which will be 6l full. Roughly equal to Wilkyboys capacity, just split more to the front. 10 or 11l should be plenty with modern gear providing you are only banking on one change of shorts and shirt.
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: Phil W on June 18, 2019, 01:48:21 pm
What is this change of shorts and shirt you speak of, a new concept for PBP?
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: alotronic on June 18, 2019, 03:50:37 pm
What is this change of shorts and shirt you speak of, a new concept for PBP?

Ha! Well I am not bothering, but I accept that might be a little grim for some :-)
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on June 18, 2019, 03:52:11 pm
Some of us delicate flowers prefer a clean pair of shorts every day.
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: quixoticgeek on June 18, 2019, 03:57:21 pm
What is this change of shorts and shirt you speak of, a new concept for PBP?

People seriously do PBP on a single pair of shorts?

Changing shorts regularly (daily for me), is one of the best things I've found for keeping the saddle sores at bay.

As for the OP's question, Not doing PBP, but I find a musette to be invaluable on the bike. I started using one after a rider on RatN2018 recommended it, and it's made life so much easier.

J
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: Phil W on June 18, 2019, 04:03:24 pm
Well I suppose it keeps the ride interesting.

"Musette, small, elegant bagpipe that was fashionable in French court circles in the 17th and 18th centuries. The bagpipe was bellows-blown, with a cylindrical double-reed chanter beside which the instrument-maker Jean Hotteterre, about 1650, placed a short stopped chanter with six keys giving notes above the main chanter compass.

The musette employed a “shuttle” drone: a short cylinder with about 12 narrow channels variously connected in series to supply four drones, each sounded with a double reed and tuned or silenced by slider keys moving in the slots through which the bores vented to the exterior. The bag was typically covered with silk or velvet, and the pipes were of ivory."
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: vorsprung on June 18, 2019, 04:42:38 pm
I haven't used a super C on PBP before but I will be this time

PBP isn't a hilly ride and the tiny extra weight of a slightly bigger saddle bag is insignificant

The main problem with a larger saddle bag is related to Ianh's point that one should take the minimum amount of stuff

If you have a bigger bag then you will take more crap
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: yanto on June 18, 2019, 05:06:43 pm
For my 2d worth, when comparing all up weight of rider and bike/gear, the smallest % of weight is gear carried, so worrying about a kg here or there isn't worth it, you gain on the downs what you lose on the ups (well not quite). I think on long rides the ability to access things, and have little comforts outweighs the small loss in speed, afterall faffing at controls loses more overall average speed than a bit of extra weight.

Don't ask me what my all up weight will be for PBP, but it will be a lot because I can take a lot, I'm even toying with taking full camping gear so I can have a sleep where I need to rather than at a control.
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: wilkyboy on June 18, 2019, 05:24:53 pm
Changing shorts regularly (daily for me), is one of the best things I've found for keeping the saddle sores at bay.

This has affected me badly the past six months or so, hence a change of shorts halfway.  When it came to it, the pack size and weight were not significant (tiny and about 300g).
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: quixoticgeek on June 18, 2019, 05:33:23 pm
Changing shorts regularly (daily for me), is one of the best things I've found for keeping the saddle sores at bay.

This has affected me badly the past six months or so, hence a change of shorts halfway.  When it came to it, the pack size and weight were not significant (tiny and about 300g).

Yeah. On RatN, my daily routine was to get to the hotel, lube the chain, put shorts in to soak, shower, rinse shorts, wrap in towel, stand on towel, hang shorts to dry. I carried 3 pairs, but only used 2 in the end (was planning to camp more).

I use these soap flakes: https://amzn.to/2ZxFIRO

They have the advantage of not being liquid based, so nothing to leak in your bag. Also very compact. I use 3-4 per wash. They have a specialised version for washing clothes, but I take the generic, so I can use it for me too, if need be.

On an event like PBP, there's not really any point in doing laundry, just carry an extra pair. (I'd probably carry 3 pairs, plus the pair worn).

On events with a bagdrop, shorts is the first item I put in there.

J
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: SR Steve on June 18, 2019, 07:14:56 pm
I haven’t used a saddle bag for Audax rides since the 1980s. Since then I’ve mostly used seat packs of various sizes according to length of ride apart from a phase when almost everyone used rack packs on their steel bikes.
From 2017 LEL onwards I’ve used the same 10 litre seat pack for all of my Audax rides and just roll it up a bit when it’s not full. I find it about right for what I regard as essentials for a long ride. I also have a fuel tank bag on my top tube that holds up to 10 x 40g energy bars and 4 gels.
On multi day rides I always carry a spare pair of shorts, but I would only use them if I really needed to. On the last LEL I carried shorts and had some in each drop bag but still wore the same ones all the way round because they were comfortable. Last few PBPs I’ve also only worn one pair of shorts all the way round.
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 18, 2019, 08:17:23 pm
Super C saddleback 6L 460grams
If anyone should want to follow Dubya's lead, I have one of these I've been meaning to get around to selling...
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: psyclist on June 19, 2019, 08:27:41 am
What is this change of shorts and shirt you speak of, a new concept for PBP?

People seriously do PBP on a single pair of shorts?

I was astonished to learn people are riding Tour Divide and Race to the Rock with just a single pair of shorts. 2 - 3 weeks in the same kit, with long days to boot.

My routine is generally to wear one pair and have another pair in reserve. So if I wash one pair I don't need it to be dry a few hours later when I set off again. Even using the towel rolling and standing on it process, things always feel damp.

On my recent Norwegian 1000km audax I used the first pair for the first 820km, so I could have a fresh pair for the ferry crossing across to Denmark.
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: Frank9755 on June 19, 2019, 08:46:52 am
I took two pairs when I did TCR the first time.  But I found that one pair was better than the other so wore them for all but two days. 

When I did IndyPac I meant to take two pairs, both of the better type, but I forgot to pack the spare pair!  It was fine.  I washed them 2 0r three times, whenever I was in a hotel where I was confident they'd dry in time. 

I always take another pair of non-cycling shorts for sleeping or any other non-cycling occasions. Last PBP I wandered round the Dreux control after my shower in 'trousers' consisting of black boxer shorts and leg warmers and nobody batted an eyelid.
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: rob on June 19, 2019, 08:51:48 am
I carried 2 pairs on the last PBP.   I put the spare pair on for the last 300k.

Not sure I'll bother with the extra pair this time.
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: Dtcman on June 19, 2019, 09:26:30 am
Carried spare top, shorts and socks on the last 3 PBPs. First time showerd and changed part way around, last two kept the same kit on all the time. Still debating this time. Definitely a spare pair of socks in case of very wet feet.     
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: zacklaws on June 19, 2019, 09:48:36 am
In 2015, I used a Carradice Pendle, 11 litres and everything fitted in perfectly. First issue I had was at the first stop, I bought a couple of bagguettes, one for then and one for later. I found I had no spare space for the baguette so I had to flatten it. Second issue was, I had no space to rummage in the bag and to find things, I had to take things out to give myself rummaging space but I was concerned I may lose things in the dark. And the third issue was, I must have lost a good bit of time repacking the bag correctly at checkpoints or whenever I had got stuff out or putting stuff back in, otherwise I could not fasten it but I would sooner have been able to just throw things in by having some extra space. In fact, if something broke of my bike and it was valuable and repairable, I would not have had anywhere to stash it apart from lash it to the top.

This year, I will use my Super C, pack nothing more than last time and look forward to having that extra space and its only about 300 grm heavier than the Pendle, nothing.

As for a musette, I have always carried one with me on long rides, rarely use it in the UK on Audax's as I eat at the checkpoint etc usually, but on solo rides, fill it in a supermarket and eat and drink as I ride. In PBP, it was a godsend as there could be a bit of walking as you visit the various places you need to be, check in, toilets, restaurant and maybe somewhere to sleep or rest etc. Stop at checkpoint, water bottles in it along with brevet card and small wallet, walk into checkpoint and it free's your hands up to get some food etc and do other things. Planet X at the moment is selling them for 0.99p.
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: bairn again on June 19, 2019, 01:35:37 pm
Super C with 23l sounds a bit OTT IMHO.

My plan is to use an 11 litre Ortlieb seatpack M replacing my Carradice Super C from 2011 & 2015. 

I cant use a bagman as I need my saddle forward every mm (short arms / long legs) and find a Carradice saddlebag rack too unreliable = one big bump and its away no matter how tight.

I'm supplementing the 11 litre Ortlieb with a Madison frame bag for smaller stuff, mainly valuables.

Relative to a normal 600, for PBP I plan to additionally carry

- spare bibshorts  (Ive seen folk washing shorts at carhaix and hanging them on a tree for [edit - collection on the return leg and.....] maximum use!)
- spare socks
- a small wash bag incl travel towel. 
- a very lightweight "duvet" jacket that packs away very very small
- a musette type bag than can pack away to nowt

Relative to a normal PBP I will carry less

- inner tubes and maintenance clobber
- food 
 
So overall a bit more than a regular 600 but overall not much bulkier.

 
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: grams on June 19, 2019, 01:41:00 pm
After hearing the story of a TAW rider having a, err, serious biological malfunction and not carrying anything else to wear, I will be bringing spare shorts.

(If the ick factor alone weren’t enough)
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: Kim on June 19, 2019, 02:42:26 pm
After hearing the story of a TAW rider having a, err, serious biological malfunction and not carrying anything else to wear, I will be bringing spare shorts.

The malfunction doesn't have to be biological:  If you come off the bike (in a way that ruins your shorts but not your ride) or just catch them on something sharp or something[1], it'll be desirable to have some spares that aren't full of holes.

When touring I always take 2-3 pairs, with at least two different pad designs, so I can wear something different if there are rubbing issues.


[1] I once managed to tear the crotch of some winter tights open by falling off a toilet with a wobbly seat.
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: alotronic on June 19, 2019, 02:52:10 pm
On LEL I took two jerseys and put the second one on 50 metres before the final control so I looked a little less shit (well, salty). No one noticed or cared. Lesson - one shirt.
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: Phil W on June 19, 2019, 03:22:11 pm
The wind resistance of the big bag will be worse than its weight.

I’ve taken to using a packable backpack (https://www.decathlon.co.uk/ultra-compact-hiking-backpack-10l-blue-id_8348925.html) for carrying food and other random overflow stuff.

Great stuff, just picked up the grey / silver version in our local Decathlon.  Packs really small and might solve the challenge of how to carry stuff am eating on the recumbent.  Not very aero but will allow on the move snacking then pack away when done I hope.
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: BeMoreMike on June 19, 2019, 03:26:40 pm
I've been having the same dilemma, i have so many different bags and set ups i can't decide what combo will be best.

The current favourite is a Carradice SQR Tour; 1297g/16 litres. I'm thinking it'll be far too big for my kit, but the extra space for food, rummage room and not having to play Tetris every time i repack it will be invaluable.
It's only 20% heavier than my Super C Audax + Bagman but 80% more volume (1056g/9L)

However, 2nd favourite is Tourtec Ultralite rack with Arkel Tailrider and 2x5L mini panniers which comes in at 1340g/19L. This has worked well for me before, it offers loads of options for multiple pockets, better organisation and packing faff.


For shorts, i have a couple of worn out pairs i've been saving that are still just about ok for 1 more long day in the saddle that i'll bin after i've worn them. The pair i finish in will be my sunday best. 



Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: Phil W on June 19, 2019, 03:32:24 pm
Mine will be the  SuperC rack pack (15l) then either an extra pannier to carry spare clothing to Rambouillet on way done or if allowed and I opt to ride recumbent instead then I'll bring banana bags as well for the clothing either side of ride.
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: simonp on June 19, 2019, 04:22:29 pm
I changed shorts half-way on PBP last time - I think it makes a difference to comfort. Getting round faster helps with this - on a full value 90h limit I might want 3 pairs.
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: Exit Stage Left on June 19, 2019, 04:47:13 pm
I always wear Y fronts with shorts. It's more hygienic, you don't put the tackle on display to the same extent, and you can throw them away as you go. People will tell you that the seams are a problem, but I've never found that.

I wouldn't wear bib-shorts on PBP. You don't want to be trying to find somewhere to hang your top when you find a toilet, and the 'braces' are going to trail in all manner of filth.
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: vorsprung on June 19, 2019, 07:29:07 pm
I've been having the same dilemma, i have so many different bags and set ups i can't decide what combo will be best.

The current favourite is a Carradice SQR Tour; 1297g/16 litres. I'm thinking it'll be far too big for my kit, but the extra space for food, rummage room and not having to play Tetris every time i repack it will be invaluable.
It's only 20% heavier than my Super C Audax + Bagman but 80% more volume (1056g/9L)

However, 2nd favourite is Tourtec Ultralite rack with Arkel Tailrider and 2x5L mini panniers which comes in at 1340g/19L. This has worked well for me before, it offers loads of options for multiple pockets, better organisation and packing faff.


For shorts, i have a couple of worn out pairs i've been saving that are still just about ok for 1 more long day in the saddle that i'll bin after i've worn them. The pair i finish in will be my sunday best.

Arkel Tailrider is a great thing for luggage.  Current best bike doesn't suit a rack though
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: BeMoreMike on June 20, 2019, 02:25:04 pm


Arkel Tailrider is a great thing for luggage.  Current best bike doesn't suit a rack though

The more I use it and compare it to other rack bags the more I realise how well made and designed it is.

Would something like this work on your bike to enable you use yours ?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F223155343710
Title: Re: Bag dilemma
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on June 20, 2019, 03:30:31 pm
Brittany is about 100 miles south of Cornwall and shares similar weather.   I have carried (and worn) bib tights on each of my 3 PBPs.  2007 - 24 hours of rain with temperatures between 8C and 13C, 2015 - night temperature was about 6C as I approach Villaines.  You may be a hardy soul and comfortable with shorts or shorts + legwarmers in such circumstances.   I'm not.

For what it's worth, last PBP I had a rack and a single 20L pannier, plus a bumbag for brevet card wallet and phone - the stuff I needed at every control.