Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Audax => PBP 2019 => Topic started by: ramchip on July 04, 2019, 10:17:05 am

Title: Bike Check?
Post by: ramchip on July 04, 2019, 10:17:05 am
What do they actually check?
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Edd on July 04, 2019, 10:42:25 am
From the dossier
Quote
- The controller will check that your bike is in good condition and that all required (front & rear lighting) and optional (mudguards, bags, pump ...) accessories are securely fixed to the bike

So if using battery lights, make sure they are attached to the bike before the check!
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: wilkyboy on July 04, 2019, 10:56:16 am
Roughly, quoting from notes from 2015:

"There were three or four inspectors in the tent, where they checked lights, brakes, and that nothing will fall off (the bounce test).  You'll be issued with a sticker for the frame, and a ticket to take to registration."

My tester was Eduard, who looked about 90, but had a twinkle in his eye and was thoroughly enjoying himself.  He was a bit bemused at the specific bike I presented, tho  ;D
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: S2L on July 04, 2019, 11:00:42 am
Surely they'll be looking for old tricks as well as new tricks... so NO nails hidden in the handlebar and no electric motor hidden in the seat tube
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: JonBuoy on July 04, 2019, 11:14:03 am
I suspect that they will also be checking on tri-bar protrusion this time.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: simonp on July 04, 2019, 11:15:40 am
They liked my fixie last couple of times - not doing that this time.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: rob on July 04, 2019, 11:17:01 am
They liked my fixie last couple of times - not doing that this time.

boo
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: bairn again on July 04, 2019, 11:23:15 am
- Lights
- Brakes
- Anything that might appear loose

Speaking in French to the inspector would appear to quicken the process.   

Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: wilkyboy on July 04, 2019, 11:34:34 am
They liked my fixie last couple of times - not doing that this time.

It would be interesting to know how many unbroken bikes turn up.  Unfortunately there isn't a box for it on the back of the PBP brevet — I checked  ;)

Not that the data from the back of AUK brevets is collated, either  ::-)
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: yellabelly on July 04, 2019, 11:49:01 am
I wonder how they will check that the tri bars conform?  Will they have a horizontal board above the wheel height so when they move your bike they want to make sure the brake levers hit the board before the tri bars.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Feanor on July 04, 2019, 12:06:05 pm
I presume you will have the opportunity to make good any deficiencies, and not just be sent away with a Gallic shrug and a "NON!"?
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Phil W on July 04, 2019, 12:22:39 pm
They liked my fixie last couple of times - not doing that this time.

It would be interesting to know how many unbroken bikes turn up. 

Broken bikes is a real problem for some flying over, that's if their bike turns up in the first place....
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Phil W on July 04, 2019, 06:42:22 pm
As long as you don't hear the following, I think you will be alright with bar extensions.

Tu te fiches de ma gueule ?

Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Ian H on July 04, 2019, 09:56:52 pm
They liked my fixie last couple of times - not doing that this time.

It would be interesting to know how many unbroken bikes turn up. 

Broken bikes is a real problem for some flying over, that's if their bike turns up in the first place....

Last time, the Things' tandem wasn't broken, but it was in Ireland somewhere.  They managed to get through the bike check without it (French pragmatism is wonderful).  After phone calls and an anxious wait it turned up in a small van.  There was just enough time to assemble it and get some sleep.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 05, 2019, 11:47:18 am
They liked my fixie last couple of times - not doing that this time.

It would be interesting to know how many unbroken bikes turn up. 

Broken bikes is a real problem for some flying over, that's if their bike turns up in the first place....

Last time, the Things' tandem wasn't broken, but it was in Ireland somewhere.  They managed to get through the bike check without it (French pragmatism is wonderful).  After phone calls and an anxious wait it turned up in a small van.  There was just enough time to assemble it and get some sleep.

None of the three bikes from their flight from San Francisco had been loaded. Their's turned up around midnight on Saturday, with some others in the van. They'd done their registration on Saturday, and returned for the bike check on Sunday. Heather met them at their chalet when she was picking up Julian Dyson's van, which we used as a mobile filming base. These stories have a tendency to mutate over the years, so it's interesting to return to the source documents.

https://vimeo.com/346362817
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on July 05, 2019, 11:53:54 am
2007 bike check - it was wet - quick look - OK to go.
2011 bike check - they didn't like my brakes (which were fine), my lights (which were fine), and something else, so had stressful time getting fine things fixed (so they weren't as fine) and left a couple of hours later, stressed.
2015 bike check - turned up on old Roberts with rack and mudguards - quick look - smile - OK to go

Gallic shrugs

Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Salvatore on July 05, 2019, 06:50:20 pm
Drew Buck told me (2011 I think) that a scrutineer wanted to fail his bike because the brakes were ineffective (sounds perfectly reasonable to me) whereupon a fellow scrutineer intervened and explained it was Drew Buck and he couldn't possibly be prevented from riding, whatever the state of his machine.

Jack Eason said one official saw the rubber-bulbed horn on his handlebars and had a go on it before summoning a colleague who also had a go before giving him a green sticker and waving him though with a 'bon courage!'. No brakes or lights tested.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 05, 2019, 07:14:00 pm
Drew Buck told me (2011 I think) that a scrutineer wanted to fail his bike because the brakes were ineffective (sounds perfectly reasonable to me) whereupon a fellow scrutineer intervened and explained it was Drew Buck and he couldn't possibly be prevented from riding, whatever the state of his machine onions.
;)
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Simon_A on July 07, 2019, 08:04:10 pm
So most of my rear lights are typical battery powered LED's with steady + flashing modes. I completely accept that use in flashing mode is banned and I need to use steady mode at all times. However will they pass the bike check? Logically to me they should, perhaps with a stern gallic warning to use in steady mode :-)  Does anyone know / remember from 2015?
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: madcow on July 07, 2019, 08:10:12 pm
Usually they ask you to switch your light on to show that it actually works and then bounce the bike to make sure that they stay attached. I reckon most riders will have led lights with a blink mode .
Never had a problem on two previous editions.
If you use them in blinky mode on the road it’s picked up by the motorbike marshalls or by other riders.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Simon_A on July 07, 2019, 08:19:27 pm
Usually they ask you to switch your light on to show that it actually works and then bounce the bike to make sure that they stay attached. I reckon most riders will have led lights with a blink mode .
Never had a problem on two previous editions.
If you use them in blinky mode on the road it’s picked up by the motorbike marshalls or by other riders.
Thanks madcow, good to know & sounds reasonable.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: bludger on July 07, 2019, 08:23:15 pm
Here's my question, not doing pbp but what's to stop you riding 50m down the road after l'inspection, sticking your TT bars on, and removing them a km before the arrivée?
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: quixoticgeek on July 07, 2019, 08:30:38 pm
Here's my question, not doing pbp but what's to stop you riding 50m down the road after l'inspection, sticking your TT bars on, and removing them a km before the arrivée?

Moto marshalls...

tho I doubt they would check for the poking over the end of the brakes...

J
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: bairn again on July 10, 2019, 08:55:10 am
Something specific I remembered last night when moving a rear light bracket from right stay to left stay.....

I've seen folk (rightly) getting pulled up at the bike check for having stay fitted rear lights  where the angle of the light is 90 degrees to the stay i.e. the light has been fitted parallel to the stay and is therefore shining almost as much upwards as backwards. 

I noticed an increasing number of these on my qualifiers this year and I <think> its due to an increasing number of rear lights on the market only having a rubber band type fixing and not an adjustable bracket.  Ive not bought a rear light for a few years. 

Presumably such lights are designed for use chiefly on seat posts, which isnt really that common among audax riders.  Beware you might get asked to change / remove.   
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Ivo on July 10, 2019, 09:19:10 am
The riders who will have issues at the bike check will mainly those who simply bodged lights etc. on their thorough bred racer. Riders appearing with a classic audax bike usually are through the controls in a matter of seconds.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: wilkyboy on July 10, 2019, 09:39:35 am
Bike-packing bags slung from saddles don't help, either, as then there's nowhere to properly mount a rear light at all (except the seat stays, but then only a few lights can be fitted properly there).

I like my Carradice + Bagman, because the Bagman's horizontal bar behind the bag is the perfect place to mount a decent reflector-cum-light (http://en.bumm.de/produkte/dynamo-ruecklicht/toplight-line-plus.html) securely and in the correct position — centrally, too, so no need to fettle on the ferry  :thumbsup: 

I can also fit a second light to the seat-post/seat-tube that is visible from underneath the bag*  :)



* although a second light is not allowed to be illuminated on PBP
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: JohnL on July 10, 2019, 10:58:09 am
* although a second light is not allowed on PBP

Citation needed. I though back up lights were positively encouraged??
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: rob on July 10, 2019, 11:04:04 am
I've just returned to some very nice cateye AAA jobbies with one on each seat stay.   Very neat and angled the right way plus one less thing to worry about charging on the ride.

On the bike check the marshall last time very forcibly bent one of my bottle cages in to grip the bottle better.   It then put a black mark down my official water bottle which was just intended to sit on a shelf.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: wilkyboy on July 10, 2019, 12:56:52 pm
* although a second light is not allowed on PBP

Citation needed. I though back up lights were positively encouraged??

I thought this was covered elsewhere already?  It's international regulations, IIRC — a front white light, but only one; a rear red light, but only one; and an audible warning device, but only one.

However, once on the parcours then different rules may apply ...
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: quixoticgeek on July 10, 2019, 01:05:13 pm
* although a second light is not allowed on PBP

Citation needed. I though back up lights were positively encouraged??

I thought this was covered elsewhere already?  It's international regulations, IIRC — a front white light, but only one; a rear red light, but only one; and an audible warning device, but only one.

However, once on the parcours then different rules may apply ...

Fitted Vs turned on. Having only one light turned on at once is the letter of the law. Having multiples fitted, isn't an issue if you only turn 1 on...

J
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: wilkyboy on July 10, 2019, 01:20:49 pm
Thanks for the clarification, J  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Davef on July 10, 2019, 03:46:23 pm
* although a second light is not allowed on PBP

Citation needed. I though back up lights were positively encouraged??

I thought this was covered elsewhere already?  It's international regulations, IIRC — a front white light, but only one; a rear red light, but only one; and an audible warning device, but only one.

However, once on the parcours then different rules may apply ...

Are you referring to the Vienna convention on traffic article 44.

Cycles without an engine in international traffic shall:
(a) Have an efficient brake;
(b) Be equipped with a bell capable of being heard at a sufficient distance, and carry no other audible warning device;
(c) Be equipped with a red reflecting device at the rear and with devices such that the cycle can show a white or selective-yellow light to the front and a red light to the rear.


I think it is saying “nothing other than a bell” (no air horns) rather than how many bells you have. I am not sure it is saying you can only have one light on.

In article 27 ...
. It shall be prohibited for cyclists to ride without holding the handlebars with at least one hand,
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: JohnL on July 10, 2019, 03:51:53 pm
If we take it that you can only have one light front and rear: “a light” then you can have only one efficient brake! “An efficient brake”. Although I suppose you could argue your other one is rubbish...
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: wilkyboy on July 10, 2019, 04:32:22 pm
I'll have to find the source, but it was clear [in my mind's eye] about the reference to only one.  As with all these things, unless one's a researcher full-time, one rarely notes citation sources just in case  ::-)

It's also possible I am merely quoting The Internet, which is Never Wrong :facepalm:
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: wilkyboy on July 10, 2019, 04:57:36 pm
If we take it that you can only have one light front and rear: “a light” then you can have only one efficient brake! “An efficient brake”. Although I suppose you could argue your other one is rubbish...

The Vienna Convention On Road Traffic 1968 in full explicitly states "an efficient brake" for bicycles, and "two efficient brakes" for mopeds — I think they really did mean just the one for bicycles.  [Here (https://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/conventn/crt1968e.pdf): Chapter V, pg. 37-38]

I doubt the PBP scrutineers would agree.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Feanor on July 10, 2019, 05:20:05 pm
2011 bike check - they didn't like my brakes (which were fine), my lights (which were fine), and something else, so had stressful time getting fine things fixed (so they weren't as fine) and left a couple of hours later, stressed.

What didn't they like about your brakes?

If they don't like them, I'm not sure what options there are to make changes!
Fresh pads?
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Ian gaggiaport on July 10, 2019, 06:07:37 pm
They go .. ohhh!
Pull the brakes. Mmmmm
Stick a temp raffle ticket on the top bar
Send you on.

Seriously.. get a friend to check over your bike.
Just in case that brake pad is rubbing on the tyre.


It's just an excuse to provide security at the venue.
You cant leave the compound with a bike unless your documents match the temp frame number
And everyone is wonderful.

That's been my experience in 2011 2015
Pas souci.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 10, 2019, 06:32:44 pm
If we take it that you can only have one light front and rear: “a light” then you can have only one efficient brake! “An efficient brake”. Although I suppose you could argue your other one is rubbish...

The Vienna Convention On Road Traffic 1968 in full explicitly states "an efficient brake" for bicycles, and "two efficient brakes" for mopeds — I think they really did mean just the one for bicycles.  [Here (https://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/conventn/crt1968e.pdf): Chapter V, pg. 37-38]

I doubt the PBP scrutineers would agree.
I think that means a minimum of one efficient brake. You must have an efficient brake: if you have two efficient brakes or an efficient brake and an inefficient brake, that also meets the Convention. Similarly for lights and reflectors.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Dtcman on July 10, 2019, 08:00:54 pm
I've done 3 PBP and don't remember the bike check being anything other than perfunctory (except the year when it rained when they decided not to bother at all!). On the lighting front, you'd be amazed at what some people get away with, Italians especially IIRC.   

Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: FifeingEejit on July 10, 2019, 08:50:18 pm
The vienna convention sets a basis for unece members to follow and derive from.

What's actually important is the French have updated their cycle requirements recently and that included the single beam restriction. It was covered in another post on here.

Technically the vienna convention allows a vehicle registered in a signatory country to adhere to the rules of the country its registered in if they conflict with local regulations, an example of that is the selectif yellow lamps that French regs allow on headlights but no others do (restricted to fog lights)

The problem for cycles is that very few countries if any register bicycles so its impossible to identify them as being in International traffic rather than domestic.

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Feanor on July 10, 2019, 09:12:37 pm
But for the porpoises of this discussion, the fine details of International Conventions is irrelevant.

All that we care about is the requirements of this specific Event Organiser, and how that is interpreted by their monkeys on the day.

Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: FifeingEejit on July 10, 2019, 10:02:45 pm
But for the porpoises of this discussion, the fine details of International Conventions is irrelevant.

All that we care about is the requirements of this specific Event Organiser, and how that is interpreted by their monkeys on the day.
True, but that should be based on French traffic law.
Which now requires a single beam front and rear.

My point was that the vienna convention is essentially irrelevant for bicycles.

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Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: wilkyboy on July 10, 2019, 10:03:56 pm
What's actually important is the French have updated their cycle requirements recently and that included the single beam restriction. It was covered in another post on here.

Thanks FE — I remember now, it's here towards the end of the discussion on hi-viz vests (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=110975.msg2383620#msg2383620)  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: bairn again on July 10, 2019, 10:18:57 pm
I've just returned to some very nice cateye AAA jobbies .....

Ive seen this term used a few times on yacf.  please stop.  See urban dictonary for details.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 10, 2019, 10:21:35 pm
This is yacf. That sort of secondary meaning is almost mandatory.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: bairn again on July 10, 2019, 10:26:45 pm
This is yacf. That sort of secondary meaning is almost mandatory.
:)
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Phil W on July 10, 2019, 10:58:01 pm
Blimey you lot must be bored quoting Vienna convention.  I really wouldn't worry about the bike check. They will check your lights work and do the drop test.  Plus a check extension bars if you've fitted them.  It's all over in a minute or two.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: zacklaws on July 11, 2019, 11:01:56 pm

It's just an excuse to provide security at the venue.
You cant leave the compound with a bike unless your documents match the temp frame number
And everyone is wonderful.


It never worked in 2015, someone had their bike swiped out of the compound along with bags etc. Think it was a Swedish rider. When I took my bike out of the compound, I noticed that the officials where that busy checking frame numbers against documents for riders leaving that other riders where just wheeling their bikes out behind them and never challenged by anyone. This year, I will have a lock with me just in case for that day and dump the lock in the car for the ride itself and just hope for best again.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Ian gaggiaport on July 11, 2019, 11:35:35 pm
Security was better at the athletic stadium.
The velodrome less so.
Anyway agreed a lock is sensible.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: quixoticgeek on July 11, 2019, 11:58:18 pm
Blimey you lot must be bored quoting Vienna convention.  I really wouldn't worry about the bike check. They will check your lights work and do the drop test.  Plus a check extension bars if you've fitted them.  It's all over in a minute or two.

Never in the history of calm down has someone being told to calm down, actually calmed down...

Telling people not to worry about bike check is a pointless, and frankly patronising answer.

To get to the starting pen in Paris people started by doing some long rides a year ago, many longer than any ride they had done before, then they did a SR series, starting often in the depths of winter to get it in the bag early. They've payed up substantial amounts of money, booked trains, ferries, hotels. Booked time off work, negotiated with family. All so they can try to ride from Paris to Brest and back again, in under 90 hours.

Given all of that is entirely reasonable to worry about what the bike check will involve, and thus want to make sure they are totally ready for what is about to happen.

Many people will have done PBP before, but for others it's the biggest ride they've ever done, and probably will ever do.

No one wants to do all of that, to be give a gallic shrug, a "non" and turned away, to have to try and sort out rectifying it all, on a Saturday afternoon, on the outskirts of Paris.

In short. Your answer is really not useful.

J
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 12, 2019, 05:42:31 am
His answer is a lot more useful than worrying about the bike check.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: marcusjb on July 12, 2019, 08:01:12 am
His answer is a lot more useful than worrying about the bike check.

100%

The bike checkers are not out to make life difficult - they want you to ride PBP just as much as you want to ride it. 

It really is all over in a minute or two.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: zigzag on July 12, 2019, 08:16:21 am
indeed, nothing to worry about.

however, suffering a crash (resulting back injury for three months) because of someone else's preventable fault, i'd like the bike checks to be more thorough and strict..

they did a proper check before the tcrno5, which is understandable as the riders are about to ride 4000km with limited (if any) technical assistance available on the way, so the bikes need to be spot on.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Kim on July 12, 2019, 12:54:52 pm
I'd say that "nothing to worry about" has already been disproven upthread:

2011 bike check - they didn't like my brakes (which were fine), my lights (which were fine), and something else, so had stressful time getting fine things fixed (so they weren't as fine) and left a couple of hours later, stressed.

"It may come down to a random whim of the checker so there's no point worrying about it in advance" isn't quite the same thing...
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 12, 2019, 01:08:26 pm
I've still got the 35mm film canister, with the spare bulbs nestling in tissue paper inside, from my 1999 bike-check. I already had a screw bulb for my Sanyo dynapower setup, but I spent Monday morning trawling outlets for a spare pre-focus bulb for my D-Cell Cateye. I'd passed the bike test without the right bulbs, and it was preying on my mind.

The Sunday start is a bit problematic in terms of displacement activities to allay anxieties
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 12, 2019, 02:51:26 pm
Five PBP bike checks so far with not even a hint of worry and I don't expect that to change this time. With 6000+ riders, almost anything is possible but the chances of that 'solitary instance' heading in my direction is too small for me to even consider bothering with.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: quixoticgeek on July 12, 2019, 02:55:43 pm
Five PBP bike checks so far with not even a hint of worry and I don't expect that to change this time. With 6000+ riders, almost anything is possible but the chances of that 'solitary instance' heading in my direction is too small for me to even consider bothering with.

If it happens to just 1 rider each time, that's a 1 in 6000 incident rate. Better odds than the lottery...

Each persons acceptable level of risk is different. For some trying to minimise the chances of being in the 1 in 6000, is worth it.

J
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: FifeingEejit on July 12, 2019, 03:01:43 pm
The Venice convention is more useful to worry about, particularly if you're from a non convention country or a Geneva protocol country like Ireland...

Had to point out to an Aussie rider on the tcr Facebook group that road signage in Europe and Asia is effectively standardised because of it after they mistook an end of cycle route sign for a prohibition sign.

I've a bike to rebuild and a wiring issue to resolve and test in the next month.

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: quixoticgeek on July 12, 2019, 03:08:47 pm
The Venice convention is more useful to worry about, particularly if you're from a non convention country or a Geneva protocol country like Ireland...

Had to point out to an Aussie rider on the tcr Facebook group that road signage in Europe and Asia is effectively standardised because of it after they mistook an end of cycle route sign for a prohibition sign.

I've a bike to rebuild and a wiring issue to resolve and test in the next month.

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk

Vienna convention rather than Venice?

J
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: FifeingEejit on July 12, 2019, 03:27:43 pm
The Venice convention is more useful to worry about, particularly if you're from a non convention country or a Geneva protocol country like Ireland...

Had to point out to an Aussie rider on the tcr Facebook group that road signage in Europe and Asia is effectively standardised because of it after they mistook an end of cycle route sign for a prohibition sign.

I've a bike to rebuild and a wiring issue to resolve and test in the next month.

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk

Vienna convention rather than Venice?

J
No, the vienna convention altered and ratified the Geneva protocol on road signage.

That is where the red bordered warning triangles, red bordered prohibition circles,  blue instruction circles and blue rectangular instructional signs come from.
The Irish use diamonds instead of triangles because that's what the Geneva protocol proposed.

The Venice convention is about basic road traffic law standardisation such as basic lighting requirements for vehicles and how to identify vehicles in international traffic (stickers with country codes or blue borders on registration plates with country flag and code)

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Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: quixoticgeek on July 12, 2019, 03:28:24 pm
The Venice convention is more useful to worry about, particularly if you're from a non convention country or a Geneva protocol country like Ireland...

Had to point out to an Aussie rider on the tcr Facebook group that road signage in Europe and Asia is effectively standardised because of it after they mistook an end of cycle route sign for a prohibition sign.

I've a bike to rebuild and a wiring issue to resolve and test in the next month.

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk

Vienna convention rather than Venice?

J
No, the vienna convention altered and ratified the Geneva protocol on road signage.

That is where the red bordered warning triangles, red bordered prohibition circles,  blue instruction circles and blue rectangular instructional signs come from.
The Irish use diamonds instead of triangles because that's what the Geneva protocol proposed.

The vienna convention is about basic road traffic law standardisation such as basic lighting requirements for vehicles and how to identify vehicles in international traffic (stickers with country codes or blue borders on registration plates with country flag and code)

And the Venice convention?

J
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: FifeingEejit on July 12, 2019, 03:48:31 pm
Fixed the typo

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Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 12, 2019, 04:59:37 pm
I think you were right about the Vienna Convention before altering the typo, though it does also replace the Geneva Convention of 1949.
https://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetailsIII.aspx?src=TREATY&mtdsg_no=XI-B-19&chapter=11&Temp=mtdsg3&clang=_en
Scroll down and you can see, amongst other stuff, some of the identifying letters. Incidentally, the UK must be one of the tardiest ratifiers of that treaty, maybe any treaty ever: signed at the convention, 8 November 1968, not ratified till 2018.

I can't find anything about the Venice Convention.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: earthloop on July 22, 2019, 11:51:45 am
My dynamo front light is mounted just above the axle of the front wheel, is this likely to cause issues at the bike check ?
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: frankly frankie on July 22, 2019, 12:42:15 pm
On the axle always used to be the standard front light mounting point for French cyclotourists.  Don't know if that's changed.

The Venice convention is about basic road traffic law standardisation ...

That sounds deeply ironic - it would be like convening in Ireland to discuss water conservation.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: earthloop on August 12, 2019, 03:11:29 pm
On the axle always used to be the standard front light mounting point for French cyclotourists.  Don't know if that's changed.

Fingers crossed. The worst that'll happen is I have to remove this light and rely on my backups, which means carrying more USB batteries than planned.

However, I have cunningly deployed a squeaky duck with a pink crash-helmet on the bars. Hopefully that'll distract the bike auditors from looking at my light.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Aunt Maud on August 12, 2019, 07:38:40 pm
I volunteered at the bike check last time before riding it.

Just make sure your bike works properly with two brakes and two lights (one red, one white and mounted on the proper side) and is in one solid piece like you mean business.

Those with a dynamo, Mrs Somnolent this is for you and Mr Somnolent, make sure it's connected at the hub thing and actually shines a light. This will speed your progress through the bike check and the friendly checker chap won't have to perform mechanic duties.

It's fucking hard work standing there for two days looking at stressed out peoples push bikes, so be kind and do the checkers work for them beforehand.

Top tip.

(click to show/hide)

Breathe........................and relax.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: jakemcree on August 12, 2019, 11:16:22 pm
I'm looking to arrive in Rambouillet later than initially planned now and notice I can't amend the bike check time on the PBP site. Anyone know best person to contact from PBP for this type of thing? Also, does anyone know what time the bike check goes on until on Sunday? Cheers.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Bianchi Boy on August 13, 2019, 06:55:48 am
I'm looking to arrive in Rambouillet later than initially planned now and notice I can't amend the bike check time on the PBP site. Anyone know best person to contact from PBP for this type of thing? Also, does anyone know what time the bike check goes on until on Sunday? Cheers.
If it is like general French administration there will be a form that has to be completed and then stamped by a supervisor who passes it to another department who will allocate the resources required to change the appointment. This will then happen and be checked by the scheduling department that will ratify the change. It will then be passed to the communication department that will have to update the schedule documentation that will have to be distributed to all the bike checkers and security staff. The printers needs six weeks notice to change the documentation.

Sorry it is too late.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Aunt Maud on August 13, 2019, 07:55:56 am
I'm looking to arrive in Rambouillet later than initially planned now and notice I can't amend the bike check time on the PBP site. Anyone know best person to contact from PBP for this type of thing? Also, does anyone know what time the bike check goes on until on Sunday? Cheers.

Just turn up, time slots weren't checked last time because its chaos in there.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: simonp on August 13, 2019, 08:00:05 am
The time slots are indicative not set in stone. I’m not sure about Sunday bike check - I think this might be for 84h riders.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: jakemcree on August 13, 2019, 08:48:34 am
Ok interesting, might try and blag it. Yep, I'm in the 84-hour group.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: simonp on August 13, 2019, 09:20:44 am
Ok interesting, might try and blag it. Yep, I'm in the 84-hour group.

From the regulations:

Article 13 : Sign-in

You must go to the bike check at the time which has been assigned by the ACP according to your request :
- Saturday, Aug 17 from 08h00 a.m. to 07:00 p.m. for riders starting on Sunday, Aug 18.
- Sunday, Aug 18 from 08:00 to 13:00 a.m. (sic) for riders starting on Monday, Aug 19.

Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Ajax Bay on August 13, 2019, 09:27:06 am
Ok interesting, might try and blag it. Yep, I'm in the 84-hour group.
https://track.rtrt.me/e/PBP-2019#/tracker/RUMVPFSY
Bike checking on Saturday is 7:30-20:00 and on Sunday is 7:30-13:00, according to Page 11 of the brochure:
http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/en/download/PBP-BROCHURE-GB.pdf
I suspect allocated bike check slots are like directional arrows on road bike tyres: there to preempt questions ("which way should this tyre go on?") and/or provide structure for riders yearning for waypoints as a mechanism for tension relief.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: mzjo on August 13, 2019, 11:11:07 am
On the axle always used to be the standard front light mounting point for French cyclotourists.  Don't know if that's changed.



Is that so??? All the classic photos that I have seen of french cyclotourists have had the front light (for dynamo lighting) or torch fastened to the underside of the front bag support (that from the 60's and 70's).
Mind when I was a kid we frequently had the front light bracket on the front wheel axle when there wasn't a light boss on the fork. It was safer than having one of those brackets clamped to the fork blade that always slid down and went into your wheel going over a pothole. Now getting one of those light brackets through the PBP lighting and bounce checks might be a challenge!! (Of course we had nutted axles, not q-r)
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: MartynWheeler on August 14, 2019, 10:42:00 am
From the PBP website (
https://www.paris-brest-paris.org/index2.php?lang=en&cat=preparation&page=conseils)


Your lighting system :
You should be equipped with 2 red tail lights, one firmly attached to the bike and the other one as a backup light. Some roads are uneven, what often causes the loss of the lights.
The front light is your own choice. Some riders have only one, others have 2 or more. I use 2 front lights powered by a dynamo. The main advantage is not having to worry about carrying extra batteries or recharging a battery. Dynamo overcomes potential problems of different electrical standards in France.
To attach a light on your helmet will help you in reading map, cue sheet or road signage, in repairing a puncture, etc.

Sent from my LLD-L31 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: bairn again on August 14, 2019, 11:11:03 am
From the PBP website (
https://www.paris-brest-paris.org/index2.php?lang=en&cat=preparation&page=conseils)


Your lighting system :
You should be equipped with 2 red tail lights, one firmly attached to the bike and the other one as a backup light. Some roads are uneven, what often causes the loss of the lights.
The front light is your own choice. Some riders have only one, others have 2 or more. I use 2 front lights powered by a dynamo. The main advantage is not having to worry about carrying extra batteries or recharging a battery. Dynamo overcomes potential problems of different electrical standards in France.
To attach a light on your helmet will help you in reading map, cue sheet or road signage, in repairing a puncture, etc.

Sent from my LLD-L31 using Tapatalk

I set up my lights last night - and was wondering if 2 rear lights were essential or not - so thanks for ^. 

Ive got one on my rear stay (shifted to L from R now) and another fixed to my saddlepack with another spare one in my bag just in case. 

Front light is dynohub and I've got a small battery powered front light as an emergency.  It will still be more powerful than a good few others mind.

Im scheduled for 1100 bike check Saturday but I'm aiming to get in and out as early as I can on Saturday.  I don't recall there being any kind of check on timings previously.     
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Danu on August 14, 2019, 12:02:20 pm
You willhave plenty of opportunities to pick up spare lights - normally after the first cobbled section
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: quixoticgeek on August 14, 2019, 12:18:04 pm
You willhave plenty of opportunities to pick up spare lights - normally after the first cobbled section

Damn, now I need to clean my drink off the keyboard...

J
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: FifeingEejit on August 14, 2019, 04:29:05 pm
Got 2 dynamo and 2 battery rears

A toplight on the bagman
A battery secula on the left chainstay above the guard bridge (so basically just off centre)
A dynamo secula on the right chainstay above the guard bridge (so basically just off centre)
A clip on thing on the bag loop

Hope that's enough

Front lights I've got a B&M IQ Premium and B&M IQ-X; both on a bar extender, hoping I've got the IQ-X central enough :-S
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: simonp on August 14, 2019, 04:48:19 pm
I've got a Schmidt EDelux mounted centrally under the stem; a B&M IQ Speed Premium which I'll move to the left of the bars; I've made my own replacement battery which should last the whole ride*, so the dynamo is there for backup.

For rear lighting I've no dynamo light, so I'm fitting two Smart lights each with 60h run-time, on the left seat stay.

* I used this light in 2015 with the original battery. My home-made battery is lighter with 50% more capacity. I had carried a second spare battery which I never used; so this time I'm going to take a single battery for the whole ride. I didn't use a dynamo last time so had two B&M lights just in case one failed.


Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Paul D on August 14, 2019, 05:23:36 pm
I'm packing a second rear light mount specifically for the bike check which I won't be taking on the ride, as I don't intend having all my bags fitted for the check but don't want to just have my other light in my hand saying "don't worry, it'll be fitted on the day".
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: earthloop on August 15, 2019, 10:50:34 am
two lights (one red, one white and mounted on the proper side)

This is probably a silly question, but which is the proper side ? I *think* it should be the left for France, but I can't find any explicit mention of it anywhere.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: FifeingEejit on August 15, 2019, 11:03:51 am
Unece lighting regs say that Lights should sit on the centre line or the offside

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: earthloop on August 15, 2019, 11:33:41 am
I don't intend having all my bags fitted for the check

So the bike checker doesn't get to attempt to bounce your bags off ? That seems slightly unsporting :)
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Aunt Maud on August 15, 2019, 12:52:48 pm
The right side is the left side. HTH.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: simonp on August 15, 2019, 12:54:59 pm
The right side is the left side. HTH.

Très gauche.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: earthloop on August 15, 2019, 01:29:57 pm
The right side is the left side. HTH.

Thanks. The previous reply left out the word left, but that's his right.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: TOBY on August 15, 2019, 07:50:17 pm
I don't intend having all my bags fitted for the check

So the bike checker doesn't get to attempt to bounce your bags off ? That seems slightly unsporting :)

It's not a Hollywood audition
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Ian gaggiaport on August 15, 2019, 08:38:45 pm
Fnarr
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: jakemcree on August 17, 2019, 09:21:56 am
What's the story with the frame badge? Does it need to be on show? I don't really have the space for it...
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: marcusjb on August 17, 2019, 09:37:23 am
What's the story with the frame badge? Does it need to be on show? I don't really have the space for it...

There's always a place for it - top of the rear triangle is a sensible alternative to in the main triangle (assuming you're using a diamond-frame machine!).

Edit to add - I haven't seen the thing yet - but it must be in a vertical plane, so not on top of saddlebags etc. otherwise the chip may not read well.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: rogerzilla on August 17, 2019, 10:28:18 am
Most (but not all*) lights that mount around the seatpost with a rubber band are contoured so they are roughly horizontal when mounted.  If you mount them on the seatstay of a fairly large frame, they are usually still horizontal provided you mount them upside down.  Being designed for a thicker tube, they will often slip around, though.

*the little Velaa rechargeable LED I use for commuting makes no attempt to allow for seat angle and assumes it will be mounted to a vertical tube -  not many of those on a bike.  I superglued a thick strip of rubber padding onto the body so that it mounts perfectly level.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Feanor on August 17, 2019, 04:36:45 pm
Ive had to clean my bike down again after the clayfest bike parking at the bikecheck.

Pushing the bike along to park it up and I head a grinding noise... both front and rear brakes are choked solid with wet clay! And my cleats are not even visible beneath an inch of the stuff!

It was a fair job to wash the sticky stuff off.

Check itself was fairly cursory.
Turn lights on.
They squeezed the brakes looking for play, but didn't test their effectiveness by pushing against them.
Wiggled the bottle cages.
Never glanced at the aero bars.
C'est bon.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Feanor on August 17, 2019, 04:43:37 pm
What's the story with the frame badge? Does it need to be on show? I don't really have the space for it...

There's always a place for it - top of the rear triangle is a sensible alternative to in the main triangle (assuming you're using a diamond-frame machine!).

Edit to add - I haven't seen the thing yet - but it must be in a vertical plane, so not on top of saddlebags etc. otherwise the chip may not read well.

Heres a photo of the sign which shows acceptable mounting..
https://flic.kr/p/2gYZYvc
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: grams on August 17, 2019, 05:19:16 pm
It was a fair job to wash the sticky stuff off.

There were Japanese guys outside the hotel cleaning their bikes off with a toothbrush before they went inside.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Zed43 on August 17, 2019, 09:10:51 pm
I got a thorough check to see if the mudguards and bottle/bottle holders were firmly attached. Also a real check of how well the brakes and lights worked. Even had to show that the backup rear light does have a solid / non-flashing mode.

The aerobars, which are borderline within regulations, didn't get *any* attention...

Judging by the bicycles that were at the concours destination machines aerobars are here to stay.
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: Ian gaggiaport on August 17, 2019, 09:15:48 pm
Quote from: Feanor link=topic=112612.msg2419475#msg2419475

date=1566056205
It was a fair job to wash the sticky stuff off.

There were Japanese guys outside the hotel cleaning their bikes off with a toothbrush before they went inside.


Mmm.. they have my full respect.. excellent etiquette.

I cleanedmy bike before wheeling it in to the hotel
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: FifeingEejit on August 17, 2019, 09:48:13 pm
It was a fair job to wash the sticky stuff off.

There were Japanese guys outside the hotel cleaning their bikes off with a toothbrush before they went inside.
I just rode around in the rain a bit more...

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: paulworthington53 on August 18, 2019, 07:30:39 am
I've got the frame badge (with the chip on) mounted OK, but what's the deal with the smaller one? Does that need to go on also or is one enough? If it is obligatoire, is there a specific place for it?
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: rob on August 18, 2019, 07:44:06 am
I've got the frame badge (with the chip on) mounted OK, but what's the deal with the smaller one? Does that need to go on also or is one enough? If it is obligatoire, is there a specific place for it?

On the front of the bike for the photos. 
Title: Re: Bike Check?
Post by: mattc on August 18, 2019, 02:53:33 pm
It was a fair job to wash the sticky stuff off.

There were Japanese guys outside the hotel cleaning their bikes off with a toothbrush before they went inside.
This seems to be a Far East thing. On HBKH last year - which was completely dry for some of us - one young chap got the toothbrush out after we rode through a big sticky mud puddle across the road. I totally admired his diligence!