Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => The Knowledge => OT Knowledge => Topic started by: Martin109 on January 02, 2020, 04:17:46 pm

Title: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Martin109 on January 02, 2020, 04:17:46 pm
Not quite sure where this would go, but I thought we could see if a thread about little things you've dome to make a difference carbon-wise might be useful and inspiring for us all.  Please move to a more suitable part of the forum if this is not the right place.

OK, I'll start with:

Now using a  scythe (http://thescytheshop.co.uk/guide.html) to do most of my grass cutting (having taken a course in 2018), rather than using a polluting mower.  It takes longer, and I can't get it all done in the hour+ it used to take, but it's more relaxing and satisfying.

Stopped using plastic clingfilm, and replacing this with greaseproof paper (for sandwiches, and such) which can then be reused.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: bludger on January 02, 2020, 04:20:40 pm
Decided to not fly on holiday anymore. After my last flying holiday to mallorca with the bike I decided that flying is just shit anyway and if some Swedish teenager can cope with not flying so can I. I haven't ruled out flying e.g. to emigrate but for the most part I just accept that there are places in my life that I'm just not going to visit, at least within the framework of a 9-5 job life.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Kim on January 02, 2020, 04:24:40 pm
Not had children.

Not been rich enough to fly around on aeroplanes.

Discovered bicycles as a practical means of daily transport and not owned a car since, and tried to encourage/enable others to do similar.

I've probably saved a little bit of gas through clever heating controls.

Repaired or repurposed various tech items over the years that might otherwise have been replaced with new.

Generally voted for the right sort of lizards.

Otherwise, precisely fuck all.  And the climate was coincidental in most of the above.  I'm as guilty as anyone.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: quixoticgeek on January 02, 2020, 04:49:44 pm

Of the big ticket items that everyone suggests have the best return in terms of emissions, I'm already doing a lot of them.

- I have never owned a car
- I've made one flight since 2005*
- I don't have kids
- I ride my bike everywhere
- I recycle everything I can
- Reduced my meat intake.

The only thing left on the list to do would be to go fully plant based, but for various medical reasons, that's not an option.

J

*I want to offset the 500kg of CO2 from this, as soon as I find a good way to offset it.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Rowan on January 02, 2020, 04:51:09 pm
I made a significant change to my driving 10ish years ago, improved my mpg from around the low 40s to high 50s by just simply driving slower and predicting the road ahead so as to rarely use the brakes. the daft thing is it hasn't really affected my journey times and has made driving a lot less frustrating, even enjoyable.  (apart from the occasional following berserker who can't cope with a little slower)

wish extinction rebellion would get on the case for less speed, huge savings in energy with the side affect of making cycling more appealing to more people.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: simonp on January 02, 2020, 04:51:12 pm
Rough order of impact:

Solar panels.

Electric car.

3 years since last flight, and infrequent before then. Haven't been outside Europe since mid-90s.

Stopped with rowing (travel to/from club adds significant miles, as well as to/from races).

Re-usable coffee cup.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: ian on January 02, 2020, 04:53:37 pm
Changed jobs to one where I'm not flying around the world all the time. That said, I still occasionally fly when the mothership demands it (but hey, that's a factor of ten less than it used to be). Cutting back on holidays, but that's not agreed with my spouse, so there's a balance between saving the world and seismic marital discord. We both have some unaddressed wanderlust issues. We have been going by train more, but generally that limits where we can go as we both have jobs and finite days off. We offset but honestly, I'm not convinced its mere greenwashing our indulgence.

We keep driving to a bare minimum: travel is by foot, bike, or public transport. We have long stopped buying crap unless I really need it and there's no alternative (OK, I needed a planetarium, all right). We try to buy local stuff where possible. Remain perfectly happy to keep the same phone and computer for several years. Developed teflon-like resistance to advertising. We're comfortably affluent and feel no compulsion to compete with our peers who seem intent on jockeying over the model of the car they have or where their last holiday was (Costa Rica, we did that before it was popular, dear.)

Not eating avocados because they're horrid, snotty things likely expelled at speed from the nostril of something large and unpleasant.

Eat meat as an occasional thing.

I confess to the occasional big sudsy bath and I've no idea the environmental impact of craft beer.

We chose, after some discussion over the years, not to have children. People won't agree, of course, but I suspect this decision is the most impact anyone can have (or at least stop in the low numbers, I read about a woman who'd had 22 children the other day).

I mostly try to do the right thing. I agonise over the recycling, pick up local litter, and nag people on the internet until they tell me to fuck off. I guerilla-plant trees.

But at the end-of-the-day, I'm living the gilded dream of someone with a professional job in a first-world country. The bill for this is sent elsewhere for someone else to pay.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Kim on January 02, 2020, 05:00:35 pm
Stopped with rowing (travel to/from club adds significant miles, as well as to/from races).

Most of my driving in the last 2 years has been to HPV racing events.  I used an EV until the car club replaced it with several hybrids, citing bang-for-buck (I don't really blame them, and they *are* in the business of giving people a viable alternative to car ownership).  A few have been accessible by train.  On some occasions I've been transporting all the timing equipment, which has forced the issue.

Environmentally, it's shit.  It's been fantastic for my fitness levels and general health.  And I won a fish.   :-\

(I did pass a motion at the last AGM to encourage people to attend BHPC races without private motoring, by creating a new race category.  That was as much about driving giving you a competitive advantage as it was about sustainability.)
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on January 02, 2020, 05:01:12 pm
But at the end-of-the-day, I'm living the gilded dream of someone with a professional job in a first-world country. The bill for this is sent elsewhere for someone else to pay.
You nailed it there.

However; not everyone in that gilded land makes the same choices. Members of my family, who vote 'Green', take an international flying holiday every second year at least and run two cars.

What am I doing, personally?  Not really changed much. Still travel to work by bike 95% of the time. Bike/train 5% of the time. Vegetarian now, rather than meat eater. Don't replace clothes unless necessary (much to the despair of MrsC). Ditto shoes.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Ham on January 02, 2020, 05:02:02 pm
Deciding to go on a ride is almost certain to result in the climate turning to WET, does that count?
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: slugbait on January 02, 2020, 05:41:52 pm
While I don't think it'll make much difference, I don't eat meat, don't own a car and don't want/have kids. Most travel is by train and bike, but I still allow myself two flights per year (to the Canary Islands and back)...

For business, I don't go to conferences outside Europe anymore and within Europe I take the train as long as it takes less than one day. Most people do not realize how far you can travel by train within (Western) Europe in a single day. The longest journey so far is Groningen (Northeastern corner of the Netherlands, where I live) to Glasgow. You get funny looks when you tell people you took the train, but it's only 13 hours. It's a day lost travelling, no matter if you go by plane or by train.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: tatanab on January 02, 2020, 05:50:55 pm
I've made no personal changes, just continued the lifestyle I've had all my adult life.

I did not breed.
I have not taken a flight in the last 11 years, and before that it was seldom.
I have a car but drive very seldom and only longish distances, the rest I cycle.  I am happy enough walking 5 mile round trip to the supermarket.
I eat meat, but not very much at all.
I recycle a lot now that the local council does separate collections.
I buy second hand books and sometimes clothing.

My stable of 9 pedal cycles probably counts against me.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Blodwyn Pig on January 02, 2020, 05:54:08 pm
eating fewer baked beans.
stopped having real  log fires ( not related to the above)
Now using organic milk
Don't use the old Land Rover much,
Cycle commuting as much as feasible
Living room now full of palms,  and other architectural greenery
Recycle everything we can.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 02, 2020, 05:58:29 pm
None at all.

Although I might claim I do various of the things listed above, none of them are changes I've made. And in as much as they're things at all, they're cancelled out by other things; eg not having flown anywhere since 2014 is cancelled out by having flown to NZ and back* and several times to India. (Not flying isn't a change, it's just reversion to pleasant and accepting there's too much to see).

*This was the mistake, of course.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: slugbait on January 02, 2020, 06:12:51 pm
[..]

Now using organic milk


[...]

Organic milk is great, but how does it reduce your climate impact? A bit of searching in the scientific literature seems to suggest that in terms of greenhouse gases per liter organic milk is just as bad as regular milk.

(Fun fact: chicken meat has lower greenhouse gas emissions than cow-based dairy products.)
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Wowbagger on January 02, 2020, 06:53:16 pm
I was an early adopter (2005) of a solar panel for domestic hot water. I think this has probably been a Good Thing, but it is, for obvious reasons, hit-and-miss and it pretty well useless between early November and early February. It still works and is genuinely zero-emissions now it's fitted as the pump is driven by 12 solar-powered volts. It does require that the water be softened in the summer, which almost certainly counts against me. I have never looked up how much CO2 is emitted by the production of softener salt.

I bought a Vauxhall Astra with an LPG conversion, which I believe is marginally less harmful than petrol, but the main reason for this was economics. I calculate that it saved me about £1000 a year in fuel. In the 3 years that I had it I drove about 75000 miles.

I was an early adopter of an electric car - a Prius in the first instance, which was by far the most economical petrol car I've driven. Eventually the battery conked out and from being a >60 mpg car, it came down to about 45 mpg. We were at that time driving so few miles that it wasn't worth changing (about 4000 a year shared by 3 drivers). I was doing almost twice that on my bike. for a while. That was replaced by a 24kWh Leaf. We still drive an EV and I will never go back. They are just vastly superior.

Had the house double-glazed (2001) and, in recent years, have had several rooms decorated and insulated.

I have only ever flown for holidays on 3 occasions that I recall, the earliest in 1964, the most recent in 2005.

Last year we switched from gas cooking to an induction hob. I think that must make some difference, especially since, for 6 years now, we have used Ecotricity as an electricity supplier. We still have gas central heating and I don't anticipate changing that soon.

We have cut down on our meat consumption and I have always thought about "air miles" when it comes to buying fruit and veg - but that isn't always a great guide. It is probably less damaging to buy grapes from Egypt, say, than it is raspberries from Kent in October.

We have done lots of cycling, but I have to say that since the reduction in return that has come from having an electric car, both in terms of money and CO2, I'm a bit less inclined to stagger back from the stupormarket on a bike laden with about 30kg of stuff.

I have done quite a lot of train travel, including trips from Southend to San Sebastian, Southend to St. Andrews and Southend to Salzburg. My holiday destinations do not always begin with an S.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: mattc on January 02, 2020, 07:00:33 pm
On The Impact Of Doing Without Children:

I feel confuddled about this. On the one hand, it's certainly true that it's the biggest impact we can have.

But: It fails the MattC Patented "What if Everyone Did It?" test. Should we collectively be aiming to wipe ourselves out?
Put it another way: are any other species on the planet considering the impact of their children?!? Eh! What about those bloody rabbits, breeding like ... well, you know!

Perhaps we should focus more on raising kids that live in harmony with the other species. Somehow...
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 02, 2020, 07:11:53 pm
It fails the MattC Patented "What if Everyone Did It?" test.
Two ways of thinking about it (whether it's having children, flying or whatever):
If everyone in the whole world carries on doing just as they are now, for ever, will it work?
If everyone in the whole world does what I'm doing, for ever, will it work?
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Rowan on January 02, 2020, 07:15:45 pm
On The Impact Of Doing Without Children:

I feel confuddled about this. On the one hand, it's certainly true that it's the biggest impact we can have.

But: It fails the MattC Patented "What if Everyone Did It?" test. Should we collectively be aiming to wipe ourselves out?
Put it another way: are any other species on the planet considering the impact of their children?!? Eh! What about those bloody rabbits, breeding like ... well, you know!

Perhaps we should focus more on raising kids that live in harmony with the other species. Somehow...
is there any other species about to bugger up the atmosphere & climate ?  I'm sure we would soon be organising a cull....

I too am a little confuddled on the no kids approach.  Yes we definitely need a lot less people on the planet, but the off spring of those so concerned about climate change etc would surely bring up those children with the right attitude towards sharing the planet with other species. These are the people who we need to have children

may be we should limit it to one or two though.   nto that I have done well here.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Kim on January 02, 2020, 07:21:31 pm
I was an early adopter (2005) of a solar panel for domestic hot water. I think this has probably been a Good Thing, but it is, for obvious reasons, hit-and-miss and it pretty well useless between early November and early February.

Pah, I was washing being washed in solar hot water in back in 1983!   :P

Mrs-Barakta's-Mum had a evacuated tube system in the early noughties, courtesy of an Unwise Financial Decision by The-Former-Mr-Barakta's-Mum some years earlier.  It made a decent job of heating water, even on non-cloudy days in winter, but it seemed over-engineered, consumed mains electricity for the pumps (plural, it was an east/west split) and I'm not sure it was ever an economic win, let alone an environmental one.  (Especially in a house where much of the hot water use was via a Pissy Landlord Electric Shower™ and cold-fill washing machine.  :facepalm:)

Last time I saw someone doing the back-of-the-envelope maths (which was some time ago), solar water heating was only economically viable if you had a use for large quantities of not-very-hot water (ie. a swimming pool, or industrial quantities of laundry), or you could DIY or combine the install with other roofing work.  I think costs have come down a bit since then.  If you're a shed fettler, you can probably get a decent return on some old radiators painted black, in spite of it being much less efficient than evacuated tubes.

Of course, the solar-PV landscape has changed somewhat, and these days it makes sense (FCVO sense) to dump excess PV-generated electricity into a hot water tank rather than feeding it back to the grid.  It's probably a more productive use of valuable roof space.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: slugbait on January 02, 2020, 07:50:23 pm
The "no children" thing is difficult. If you would ask me whether the planet can sustain 9+ billion humans, then I would say no. But I do understand why you would want a large family when you're in Chad , Yemen etc. Those kids may provide for you when you're old. A state pension in these parts of the wordl here may be insufficient for a comfortable life, but at least you won't die of hunger.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: phantasmagoriana on January 02, 2020, 07:51:09 pm
I've made no personal changes, just continued the lifestyle I've had all my adult life.


Same here. This includes:
- have never had kids
- have never owned a car (most of my local travel is on foot these days)
- recycle stuff where I can
- rarely fly
- been vegetarian for >30 years (not vegan, though)


But: It fails the MattC Patented "What if Everyone Did It?" test.

Surely Kant patented that one...? :P
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Kim on January 02, 2020, 07:51:53 pm
A state pension in these parts of the wordl here may be insufficient for a comfortable life, but at least you won't die of hunger.

[CITATION NEEDED]
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: slugbait on January 02, 2020, 07:59:51 pm
A state pension in these parts of the wordl here may be insufficient for a comfortable life, but at least you won't die of hunger.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Seriously? I'm based in the Netherlands, where I see lonely pensioners (not dying of hunger!). Things in the UK may be worse, but surely their biggest worry is the cost of heating (less of an issue due to global warming!). Our problems are trivial compared to 99% of people living in sub-Saharan Africa, no matter how bad your situation is.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Kim on January 02, 2020, 08:02:00 pm
A state pension in these parts of the wordl here may be insufficient for a comfortable life, but at least you won't die of hunger.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Seriously? I'm based in the Netherlands, where I see lonely pensioners (not dying of hunger!). Things in the UK may be worse, but surely they're biggest worry is the cost of heating (less of an issue due to global warming!).

In the UK the biggest worry is the cost of housing.  State pension barely covers rent.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: quixoticgeek on January 02, 2020, 08:02:42 pm
Seriously? I'm based in the Netherlands, where I see lonely pensioners (not dying of hunger!). Things in the UK may be worse, but surely their biggest worry is the cost of heating (less of an issue due to global warming!). Our problems are trivial compared to 99% of people living in sub-Saharan Africa, no matter how bad your situation is.

Dutch state pension is higher than UK state pension. UK welfare payments are designed to keep you at the poverty line.

J
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: slugbait on January 02, 2020, 08:17:00 pm
I acknowledge that life at the bottom of the income distribution in the UK (which seems to be horribly inequal) is bad. But it's a fact that "illegal" (terrible word, nothing wrong with seeking a better life) immigrants from Africa and Arabia are willing to risk life and limb to cross the channel. I don't see a move in the other direction.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Wowbagger on January 02, 2020, 08:18:51 pm
Buying our solar panel in 2005 was a Serious Mistake. We got a £400 grant from the government but shelled out a total of almost £3000 for it. This was money my mother left me in her will so not money I had earned, and therefore ripe to be gambled away. A year or so later our next door neighbours invested in a much superior evacuated tube system for which they got a pretty significant grant from the local authority, since Gordon Brown was chancellor and he had ended boom-and-bust for ever and there was lots of cash flowing about. Their deal was much better than ours.

I think the biggest boost our solar panel got was as a result of the 2007-08 financial crash, when instant access interest rates dropped from about 6% to about 1%. If you are trying to invest in something to save cash in the long term, it makes far more financial sense if there's no point in investing in anything financial.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Kim on January 02, 2020, 08:19:45 pm
I acknowledge that life at the bottom of the income distribution in the UK (which seems to be horribly inequal) is bad. But it's a fact that "illegal" (terrible word, nothing wrong with seeking a better life) immigrants from Africa and Arabia are willing to risk life and limb to cross the channel.

I don't think anyone disputed that?  I merely expressed scepticism about the viability of the state pension.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: slugbait on January 02, 2020, 08:27:27 pm
I acknowledge that life at the bottom of the income distribution in the UK (which seems to be horribly inequal) is bad. But it's a fact that "illegal" (terrible word, nothing wrong with seeking a better life) immigrants from Africa and Arabia are willing to risk life and limb to cross the channel.

I don't think anyone disputed that?  I merely expressed scepticism about the viability of the state pension.

My apologies, I hope that at some point state pensions in the UK will be viable and afford all pensioners a decent income to live on.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: quixoticgeek on January 02, 2020, 08:53:30 pm
My apologies, I hope that at some point state pensions in the UK will be viable and afford all pensioners a decent income to live on.

The state pension is basically a pyramid scheme, which causes a couple of problems.

- On the one hand the work force to retired ratio has skewed out, so where as it used to be something like 12:1, it's approaching 4:1.
- People are retiring and then living longer
- The UK government feels that if you are poor you deserve to be poor and as such it is not the place of the state to keep you from poverty.

The later is used to justify keeping the state pension stupidly low. The UK state pension is £129.20 per week. By comparison the Dutch pension is set at 70% of the minimum wage, or about €1000 per month.

If you wanted to have a comfortable retirement, you should have been born into money, and if you weren't, that's your own stupid fault!

J
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Mrs Pingu on January 02, 2020, 09:13:49 pm
No breeding (not really a change there, and minus points for having 2 cats)
Not using the car much - we do less than 7k a year and quite a bit of that is to the S. Of France & back. Generally cycling, walking, bussing in town.
Trying to buy less 'stuff' and buy responsibly (yes work, this is why I don't join in your Xmas jumper and helloween dress up bollocks).
This year we've gone veggie mid week. (I was unsuccessful in persuading Pingu to go full time veggie).

Minus lots of points for flying, but I reckon we get a lot back on your 'average Joe Public' by not driving absolutely everywhere all the time.
Oh yes, and we still live in a small 1 bed flat. It may be old and energy inefficient, but it's still small.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: orienteer on January 02, 2020, 09:16:09 pm
Have inched towards using less energy by the usual means as quoted above. Each time we have had work done on the house, tried to improve insulation and efficiency at the same time.

Apparently the next big thing is to stop using gas for heating, but there doesn't seem to be a viable alternative at present. The recommended use of a heat pump, ideally a ground rather than air one, currently costs the best part of £10,000 to install.

We can't use solar as our southern aspect is blocked by other buildings for half the year.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Ian H on January 02, 2020, 09:41:53 pm

Otherwise, precisely fuck all.  And the climate was coincidental in most of the above.  I'm as guilty as anyone.

I'd have to add similar to any list I make.

We walk or cycle for shopping; refillable glass for milk, refuse plastic bags, buy as much local produce as possible.
Haven't flown for a few years.  Reduced car mileage to a fraction of what it was (by virtue of being retired).
Zoned the heating so we're not heating the whole house (but it's still too big).
Tidy the garden less (leave winter die-back in place, create a few 'wild' areas).
I'd say 'every little helps', but that might just sound facetious.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: simonp on January 02, 2020, 09:42:29 pm
Minus lots of points for flying, but I reckon we get a lot back on your 'average Joe Public' by not driving absolutely everywhere all the time.

Average Joe Public in the uk, perhaps. Worldwide, over 80% have never taken even one flight. Boeing have talked about the growth potential this represents...  :facepalm:


Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Mrs Pingu on January 02, 2020, 09:47:38 pm
Minus lots of points for flying, but I reckon we get a lot back on your 'average Joe Public' by not driving absolutely everywhere all the time.

Average Joe Public in the uk, perhaps. Worldwide, over 80% have never taken even one flight. Boeing have talked about the growth potential this represents...  :facepalm:

Yes, agreed.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Ben T on January 02, 2020, 11:04:52 pm
Work from home. Not just on Fridays, or 3 days a week - all the time.
Arguably the best thing you can do. Not just for the climate long term but day to day pleasantness in the here and now. Which is arguably more important.

On The Impact Of Doing Without Children:

I feel confuddled about this. On the one hand, it's certainly true that it's the biggest impact we can have.

But: It fails the MattC Patented "What if Everyone Did It?" test. Should we collectively be aiming to wipe ourselves out?
Put it another way: are any other species on the planet considering the impact of their children?!? Eh! What about those bloody rabbits, breeding like ... well, you know!

Perhaps we should focus more on raising kids that live in harmony with the other species. Somehow...

It's not that if no one had kids the climate would be ok.
If no one had kids, it wouldn't matter about the climate... or how much of the world's going to be inhabitable in x00 years, etc.

Not to sound harsh, but it's only those that feel it necessary to perpetuate the human race whose problem it is.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 02, 2020, 11:17:02 pm
I've managed to think of one change I've made that might have a (positive*) climate impact: about a year ago I started using "planet friendly" washing up liquid and laundry liquid. It's made out of algae (or plants?) rather than petroleum. More of a benefit for the rivers (and my nose – it smells much better than normal stuff) but must a have a small climate impact too.

*Changes you've made that have a harmful climate impact would be a much longer thread.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Rowan on January 02, 2020, 11:46:09 pm
Work from home. Not just on Fridays, or 3 days a week - all the time.
Arguably the best thing you can do. Not just for the climate long term but day to day pleasantness in the here and now. Which is arguably more important.

On The Impact Of Doing Without Children:

I feel confuddled about this. On the one hand, it's certainly true that it's the biggest impact we can have.

But: It fails the MattC Patented "What if Everyone Did It?" test. Should we collectively be aiming to wipe ourselves out?
Put it another way: are any other species on the planet considering the impact of their children?!? Eh! What about those bloody rabbits, breeding like ... well, you know!

Perhaps we should focus more on raising kids that live in harmony with the other species. Somehow...

It's not that if no one had kids the climate would be ok.
If no one had kids, it wouldn't matter about the climate... or how much of the world's going to be inhabitable in x00 years, etc.

Not to sound harsh, but it's only those that feel it necessary to perpetuate the human race whose problem it is.
It is rather a big problem to all the other species that we share the planet with.  They have as much right to it as we do.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Clare on January 02, 2020, 11:51:34 pm
who gives a crap (https://uk.whogivesacrap.org)

We haven't changed loads, we try to minimise our impact but when you put satellites up for a living your carbon offset is a bit "hello bankruptcy".

The best thing we have done is to not have kids.


Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Ben T on January 03, 2020, 09:21:58 am
It is rather a big problem to all the other species that we share the planet with.  They have as much right to it as we do.

Again, only the ones that feel the need to reproduce. It probably won't be an issue for, say, pandas.
You could also argue that we're actually doing far more good to other species by wiping ourselves out than we ever would by preventing warming in the first place.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: ian on January 03, 2020, 09:52:25 am
The "no children" thing is difficult. If you would ask me whether the planet can sustain 9+ billion humans, then I would say no. But I do understand why you would want a large family when you're in Chad , Yemen etc. Those kids may provide for you when you're old. A state pension in these parts of the wordl here may be insufficient for a comfortable life, but at least you won't die of hunger.

I never actually said 'no children', I was making the point that children are a choice like anything else from taking a holiday in Costa Rica to buying the latest marque of main suburban battle tank and they all have an impact (having a child, of course, knocks all the others into a hat, since it's an entire another breathing, consuming human). Of course, we could abandon our privileged first-world lifestyles and really reduce our mighty environmental thump but I'm as likely to volunteer to do that as anyone else, so I fritter around the edges. As the song says, I care a lot. I suspect some of that acknowledgement (if not all) is just liberally spreading the honey of my own virtue.

That said though, and people are generally uncomfortable with Malthusian conversations, but ultimately there's too many of us humans populating the planet (and the more of us, the worse it is). Birth rates drop with economic advancement and, who knew, letting women manage their own fertility (something so elemental yet even the developed world still seems to be struggling with it). Of course, in less developed parts of the world, large numbers of children are a necessity, they're only the social support mechanism and mortality still cuts its teeth on a large number. And having major religions still pushing policies still fundamentally opposed to birth control (well, I think they're fundamentally opposed to women, but that's another argument) isn't exactly nudging up the dimmer switch of enlightenment. I don't accept the argument we must keep having children to pay our pensions and feed our voracious economies, that's just perpetuating the current unsustainable economic paradigm and nudging its collapse over to the next generation.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Martin109 on January 03, 2020, 02:43:05 pm
Wow! I'm rather impressed by the discussion and contributions so far.

I'm going to add:

Using bike/train as much as possible for my weekly 200-mile round trip commute (Slough-Bristol-Slough)
Re-using plastic bags as much as possible (have even salvaged a clean-looking one from the pavement and put it to use!)
Cutting down on red meat (and, when consuming, obtaining grass-fed organic beef with no food miles (from farm up the lane))
Using hemp (with lime as hemplime) for renovation work in old cottage)
Now using linseed oil paint instead of plastic paint

Controversial

Sticking with my temperamental 30-year-old Golf, using the argument that I'm offsetting the raw material use and energy expended in its manufacture by extending its use, rather than scrapping it after max 10 years (probably get shot down for that one!)

[Edit for typos]
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: sojournermike on January 03, 2020, 05:18:12 pm

Controversial

Sticking with my temperamental 30-year-old Golf, using the argument that I'm offsetting the raw material use and energy expended in its manufacture by extending its use, rather than scrapping it after max 10 years (probably get shot down for that one!)

[Edit for typos]

No, I think that using an old petrol car is probably the least bad option, provided you don't go far and plan to desist altogether in the next few years.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Polar Bear on January 03, 2020, 05:35:57 pm
The problem of having no future generations is that there will be nobody to earn the money to pay the taxes to provide the meagre state pensions, hospitals, GP's, dentists, care homes and even care workers visiting you to wipe your bottoms and put you to bed.

We can of course wipe ourselves out before we make the planet uninhabitable for humans - it's a bit of a race to see which happens first!
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Kim on January 03, 2020, 06:01:34 pm
It is rather a big problem to all the other species that we share the planet with.  They have as much right to it as we do.

Again, only the ones that feel the need to reproduce. It probably won't be an issue for, say, pandas.
You could also argue that we're actually doing far more good to other species by wiping ourselves out than we ever would by preventing warming in the first place.

I've seen it suggested that the effect may be self-limiting in as much that humans become measurably more stupid as CO2 levels pass the 1000ppm range, and at some point we may lose the ability to use fossil fuel technology.

I'm not convinced.  Small numbers of sufficiently well-off humans would surely be able to scrub CO2 from their own personal air supply, and that of whatever supply chain was required to keep them in appropriate luxury, until everything was properly fucked.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Kim on January 03, 2020, 06:05:20 pm

Controversial

Sticking with my temperamental 30-year-old Golf, using the argument that I'm offsetting the raw material use and energy expended in its manufacture by extending its use, rather than scrapping it after max 10 years (probably get shot down for that one!)

[Edit for typos]

No, I think that using an old petrol car is probably the least bad option, provided you don't go far and plan to desist altogether in the next few years.

I rather admire your dedication to keeping the thing running, tbh.

There's probably a point where the best solution to the perennial carburettor problems is to retrofit an electric drivetrain, thobut.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: perpetual dan on January 03, 2020, 06:22:18 pm
This is interesting. We've done what feels like the obvious stuff.

At home we've done the obvious lightbulbs type stuff. Over the years, in our three houses (one after the other, not owning 3 at once!), each has had extra insulation and a modern boiler installed. We get our energy from Bulb, who are fairly green. I use 30 degree or A rated washing cycles and air dry most of it.

We have a petrol car. It's modest, second hand and mostly not used where walking and public transport can be, eg I commute by bike and train, walk to the shop for bits and bobs. No car is a fairly short term aim. I've flown a bit, but not regularly and taken train over plane with some success.

Food is complex. But i eat quite a lot of veg. Most of the meat is UK and organic / similar. Wine is no longer from outside Europe.

We've had kids, but just the two.

I use quite a lot of cloud computing, but try to make electronics last longer than average.

It all feels a bit compromised.




Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: SteveC on January 03, 2020, 06:33:35 pm
It all feels a bit compromised.
It will always be compromised. However lightly we wish to tread upon the earth, we will have an impact. Even creating and managing a nature reserve, for instance, has a footprint. We can just do the little stuff which is within our power.
If everyone moved a bit in the right direction, that would make a huge difference.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Mrs Pingu on January 03, 2020, 08:13:27 pm
Over the years, in our three houses (one after the other, not owning 3 at once!), each has had extra insulation and a modern boiler installed. We get our energy from Bulb, who are fairly green. I use 30 degree or A rated washing cycles and air dry most of it.

On this front, and similar to the 30 yr old car comment, I'm deliberately not replacing our boiler until it decides it's going on the fritz on a regular basis, as I believe that the environmental cost of creating these items is not always considered.
Given we live in a 'heritage' building which would not appreciate being fully insulated or sealed up to the eyeballs we'd always have a poorly energy efficient home anyway.
We don't own a tumble dryer (I think those things are planet raping) but use a dehumidifier in the winter instead (which I think we would need even if we didn't dry clothes indoors).
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Mrs Pingu on January 03, 2020, 08:14:42 pm
If everyone moved a bit in the right direction, that would make a huge difference.

This. There are probably a large amount of people doing sweet FA.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on January 03, 2020, 08:19:28 pm
I've had more success than Wowbagger with my solar hot water system, which pretty much does all our hot water from mid April to October, but it's probably got another 2 or 3 years before its paid for its 2005 installation.  That does nothing to offset the average 24 (12 round trip) work and 2 (1 round trip) personal flights.

We've mostly staycated since 2009, which was driven by financial concerns rather than environmental ones - and the impact of living in a propane heated 39' x 12' aluminium box (static caravan) is untested.

I travel 15,000 - 20,000 miles by train a year, again mostly for work, my car mileage for work is less than 500 miles per year, but that might less virtuous than it seems - Transport for London consumes 2.7% of all electricity in London.

The biggest contribution I think I am making is helping our energy industry implement fit for the future switching systems that will make it much easier for EVs to register and switch supply, so that (in the future) 20m EVs on our roads can act as a huge battery storage system and help to balance out the fact that most renewables (wind, solar) are variable and yet demand is relatively constant - although at its highest on cold foggy winter mornings when there is neither wind nor solar.

Behind all the hype there are 100,000s of people working on solutions that will help the UK and the world decarbonise, including those working for hated government departments and oil companies.  They need all the support and encouragement they can get.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: perpetual dan on January 03, 2020, 08:25:09 pm
Over the years, in our three houses (one after the other, not owning 3 at once!), each has had extra insulation and a modern boiler installed. We get our energy from Bulb, who are fairly green. I use 30 degree or A rated washing cycles and air dry most of it.

On this front, and similar to the 30 yr old car comment, I'm deliberately not replacing our boiler until it decides it's going on the fritz on a regular basis, as I believe that the environmental cost of creating these items is not always considered.


I think that you're right that throwing out the current thing for a newer fractionally greener one is worth viewing with some skepticism until the remaining costs can be viewed alongside the impact of making the new thing. As the thing gets more complex (whole buildings) that evaluation gets harder to make.

This was the case with our boilers, rather than a whim for a few percent:
 - The first house we had the previous occupant had taken the boiler out, cut off the radiators (and squashed pipes in the process) and replaced with electric heaters that were eye wateringly expensive.
 - The second was a 1960s model and replacement became sensible alongside other changes to the house.
 - The current one was on its second breakdown in a year.

In each case we tried to make a choice that wasn't the most basic one, but would provide some long term improvement in efficiency for a bit more money.

Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Mrs Pingu on January 03, 2020, 08:26:48 pm
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: quixoticgeek on January 03, 2020, 10:06:32 pm
Blast! I have found a lovely Australian red wine at only €2.49 a bottle and it has become my favourite this season.

Overall, I am enjoying reading of things I had not thought of and can work out what else I can do to help. Keep the conversation going.

Don't worry, the fires in Aus have damaged a lot of the vineyards, aussie wine is going to be a bit rarer for the next few years.

It's also worth noting that the environmental impact of wine transport depends a lot on the location of the bottling. A lot of wine from far off lands is actually shipped over in giant wine boxes, basically a big bag of wine in a shipping container, it is then bottled in locally.

This is more efficient than shipping it pre bottled from said far flung land.

J
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 03, 2020, 10:27:46 pm
If everyone moved a bit in the right direction, that would make a huge difference.

This.
Probably not. The Earth Overshoot concept calculates "how many planets" we are using each year.
Quote
Earth Overshoot Day marks the date when humanity’s demand for ecological resources and services in a given year exceeds what Earth can regenerate in that year. We maintain this deficit by liquidating stocks of ecological resources and accumulating waste, primarily carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.
...
Just as a bank statement tracks income against expenditures, Global Footprint Network measures a population’s demand for and ecosystems’ supply of resources and services. These calculations then serve as the foundation for calculating Earth Overshoot Day.

On the supply side, a city, state, or nation’s biocapacity represents its biologically productive land and sea area, including forest lands, grazing lands, cropland, fishing grounds, and built-up land.

On the demand side, the Ecological Footprint measures a population’s demand for plant-based food and fiber products, livestock and fish products, timber and other forest products, space for urban infrastructure, and forest to absorb its carbon dioxide emissions from fossil fuels.
https://www.overshootday.org/about-earth-overshoot-day/
Apparently we started using more than one Earth-ful in the early 1970s. It's currently July 29th but individual country's days vary hugely. Not every country overshoots. Britain's is 17th May, which makes us a bit more greedy than some supposedly greener countries like Denmark, but we're using about "2.6 Earths" each. So if everyone does a little bit, the high-users like us shift a bit and so do the low-users and we end up not far off where we are. What we probably need is for some people to carry on as they are, some to do a little and some, which includes almost everyone in Europe, to use less than half the resources we currently do. Which is an awfully big change.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: rafletcher on January 03, 2020, 10:27:48 pm
So, has anyone downsized their house to suit their family? So many people live in houses far too big for their basic needs.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Kim on January 03, 2020, 10:36:28 pm
Interesting question.  Usually people seem to do it for finance or mobility reasons.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 03, 2020, 10:39:25 pm
It's also the case that needs expand to fill the house available.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: rafletcher on January 03, 2020, 10:43:31 pm
Interesting question.  Usually people seem to do it for finance or mobility reasons.

Yep. We did, to rid ourselves or a mortgage, so no paragon of virtue here. But how many couples (usually older) still live in a 4 or 5 bedroom house? At least 5 of our near neighbours for a start.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Paul H on January 03, 2020, 10:44:01 pm
Now using a  scythe (http://thescytheshop.co.uk/guide.html) to do most of my grass cutting (having taken a course in 2018), rather than using a polluting mower.  It takes longer, and I can't get it all done in the hour+ it used to take, but it's more relaxing and satisfying.
Then what do you do with the grass?
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Paul H on January 03, 2020, 11:00:54 pm
I don't do anything that's likely to make any difference. Don't drive, don't fly, live cheaply so don't consume as much, live in a small space so don't need much resource to maintain it, get as much food as possible from the grower, drink at the pub, try and re-use before re-cycling, avoid packaging where possible, keep things till they wear out and chose replacements with longevity in mind ...
It's nothing like enough, the idea that it'll all be alright if we each do a bit is a con, the whole world order, the economic models, the idea of continual growth, none of it is sustainable.  A few people taking a few less less flights isn't going to do any good, when there's plenty of others to take up those seats at a bargain price, half the contents of Sainsbury's has flown there, as have half your (And mine) bike parts.  I've just done the Christmas extra shifts at the UK's 2nd biggest freight airport, everything flies in.
We ain't going to change it, do whatever you need to sleep easy, but don't keep anyone else up berating them for not doing enough.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: quixoticgeek on January 03, 2020, 11:18:51 pm
I don't do anything that's likely to make any difference. Don't drive, don't fly, live cheaply so don't consume as much, live in a small space so don't need much resource to maintain it, get as much food as possible from the grower, drink at the pub, try and re-use before re-cycling, avoid packaging where possible, keep things till they wear out and chose replacements with longevity in mind ...
It's nothing like enough, the idea that it'll all be alright if we each do a bit is a con, the whole world order, the economic models, the idea of continual growth, none of it is sustainable.  A few people taking a few less less flights isn't going to do any good, when there's plenty of others to take up those seats at a bargain price, half the contents of Sainsbury's has flown there, as have half your (And mine) bike parts.  I've just done the Christmas extra shifts at the UK's 2nd biggest freight airport, everything flies in.
We ain't going to change it, do whatever you need to sleep easy, but don't keep anyone else up berating them for not doing enough.

I don't think any of us are berating anyone here, we're just talking about the things we are doing.

I do wonder how much of my bike has flown to Europe, and how much has travelled by ship. My tyres are made in Germany, I know that much.


J

Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Paul H on January 03, 2020, 11:35:41 pm
I do wonder how much of my bike has flown to Europe, and how much has travelled by ship. My tyres are made in Germany, I know that much.

J

J
The gist of my point was - So what? - Which would have more impact, choosing tyres based on where they're made or on the basis of how long they last?
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: quixoticgeek on January 03, 2020, 11:37:59 pm
The gist of my point was - So what? - Which would have more impact, choosing tyres based on where they're made or on the basis of how long they last?

Without accurate data, it's hard to say for sure.

J
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Bolt on January 04, 2020, 12:41:48 am
I don't do anything that's likely to make any difference. Don't drive, don't fly, live cheaply so don't consume as much, live in a small space so don't need much resource to maintain it, get as much food as possible from the grower, drink at the pub, try and re-use before re-cycling, avoid packaging where possible, keep things till they wear out and chose replacements with longevity in mind ...
It's nothing like enough, the idea that it'll all be alright if we each do a bit is a con, the whole world order, the economic models, the idea of continual growth, none of it is sustainable.  A few people taking a few less less flights isn't going to do any good, when there's plenty of others to take up those seats at a bargain price, half the contents of Sainsbury's has flown there, as have half your (And mine) bike parts.  I've just done the Christmas extra shifts at the UK's 2nd biggest freight airport, everything flies in.
We ain't going to change it, do whatever you need to sleep easy, but don't keep anyone else up berating them for not doing enough.

Wise words Paul, but I do think that the slow development of a higher consciousness will prevail from all such small acts in the short term.   The futures bright :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on January 04, 2020, 05:36:59 am
So, has anyone downsized their house to suit their family? So many people live in houses far too big for their basic needs.

Planning to.  With the aim of downsizing by 40%.  Post-children, in about 5 years.

It's not easy.  We've got used to the larger 'living' space of a bigger house.  In retirement, we'll probably spend more time at home and therefore the one space we do want to preserve is the living room, but smaller properties tend to have smaller rooms rather than less rooms.

Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Auntie Helen on January 04, 2020, 06:43:30 am
So, has anyone downsized their house to suit their family? So many people live in houses far too big for their basic needs.
Yes, from a five bedroom detached former chapel in the UK to a 60 square metre first floor flat in Germany. Occupied by two humans and one small dog in both cases. I also sold the mortgage-free house and now rent, I love the freedom.

Having not had children is my biggest climate benefit. I also gave away my car two years ago and just use my velomobile, although partner’s company car is available for joint trips. Lots of recycling in Germany and we do our bit, including also buying fruit, some veg and eggs from the local grower up the road.

I still think it’s too late, but assume I will die of old age before the worst of it.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: T42 on January 04, 2020, 08:28:43 am
If they stopped prescribing metformin for diabetics there'd be a hell of a lot less greenhouse gas.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Rowan on January 04, 2020, 09:46:11 am
Interesting question.  Usually people seem to do it for finance or mobility reasons.

Yep. We did, to rid ourselves or a mortgage, so no paragon of virtue here. But how many couples (usually older) still live in a 4 or 5 bedroom house? At least 5 of our near neighbours for a start.
It can be a difficult one though.  We're in a 4/5 bed detached with a wonderful wildlife inspired garden with ponds and frogs and birds and bats....  We also live in a wonderful area with wonderful neighbours.  We have no intention of giving this up for may be a small flat with noisy neighbours we don't know, and what would happen to our little wildlife oasis?  Would love a smaller house but I see no environmental benefit in knocking ours down and rebuilding a new smaller one.

In any case, I'm not so sure the fight against climate change in me is as strong as it once was.  I have been passionate about this since a teenager (mainly on a wildlife habitat angle)  but recently as the world is finally starting to wake up to the realities of what we're doing. I''m now thinking we are past the point of no return.  I don't see us halting this runaway train, we're more likely to be heading towards world wars over migration and resources than living some sort of sustainable harmonious lifestyle.  Sadly we are probably going to be the most stupid, unsuccessful and short lived species that has ever existed.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Martin109 on January 04, 2020, 12:37:53 pm
Now using a  scythe (http://thescytheshop.co.uk/guide.html) to do most of my grass cutting (having taken a course in 2018), rather than using a polluting mower.  It takes longer, and I can't get it all done in the hour+ it used to take, but it's more relaxing and satisfying.
Then what do you do with the grass?

Good question.  As with the petrol mower previously, it goes on a vegetation pile to rot down (some goes towards compost, but only a bit, as capacity limited - I could expand this).
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: bludger on January 04, 2020, 12:53:05 pm
Putting on my rangering cap here, my move would be to abandon the lawn completely and instead transition the garden into a meadow. Out with the American suburbanite manicured wildlife desert, in with the wildflowers and butterflies. If we could give over more land to properly laid hedgerows and meadows we would be onto a real start.

It's a bit of work to achieve but the results are tremendous.

https://theecologist.org/2015/apr/27/nearby-wild-how-i-turned-my-lawn-mini-meadow

(https://theecologist.org/sites/default/files/styles/inline_l/public/NG_media/392741.jpg?itok=-aRezGjH)
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: mattc on January 04, 2020, 01:06:03 pm
Now using a  scythe (http://thescytheshop.co.uk/guide.html) to do most of my grass cutting (having taken a course in 2018), rather than using a polluting mower.  It takes longer, and I can't get it all done in the hour+ it used to take, but it's more relaxing and satisfying.

We want Poldarky shirt-off pictures, or it didn't happen!

(how short can you get it? The grass I mean ;) )
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Greenbank on January 04, 2020, 01:30:25 pm

Controversial

Sticking with my temperamental 30-year-old Golf, using the argument that I'm offsetting the raw material use and energy expended in its manufacture by extending its use, rather than scrapping it after max 10 years (probably get shot down for that one!)

[Edit for typos]

No, I think that using an old petrol car is probably the least bad option, provided you don't go far and plan to desist altogether in the next few years.

I rather admire your dedication to keeping the thing running, tbh.

There's probably a point where the best solution to the perennial carburettor problems is to retrofit an electric drivetrain, thobut.

Some old cars just keep going with minimal upkeep. I was given a 2001 Citreon Saxo (1.1L petrol) when my mum stopped driving. It's happily continued running with no problems for the 3 years I've had it. It obviously gets an MOT each year and I treated it to a proper service after owning it for 3 years, other than that it's never had to go to a garage. The tyres will be good for thousands more miles. If it dies (unlikely as it has only done 50k miles) then I'll get rid of it and not replace it with anything, I'll just switch to Zipcars/cabs, more use of public transport or just not do the trip at all. And despite it being 19 years old it is ULEZ compliant, which is useful as I live half a mile from the edge of the proposed ULEZ extension area.

Anyway, on the positive side:-
* I try to reuse and recycle as much as possible (the local council make this quite easy)
* We use public transport a lot (living in London makes this easy)
* I/we have cut down red meat
* No more long haul flights (I used to live in the US and probably flew 300+ hours a year)
* Most holidays are by train (either in the UK or France)
* My car (I'm a monster!) does less than 500 miles a year, if I got rid of the car I'd probably still do the same number of miles in a car that belonged to someone else (either Zipcar or cabs)
* No pets (ever)
* We don't rattle around in a property that is too big for us, the "spare bedroom" is now a study to allow one of us to work from home on any given day which cuts down on commuting
* I commute 75% of the time by human power (bike or running), the remaining time by train, never by motor vehicle
* I try to buy used/second-hand items rather than brand new
* Heating limited to a max of 19 deg C (luckily it's a warm flat given we have neighbours above and beneath us) and all of us more likely to put a jumper on than turn it up
* Using more tupperware instead of clingfilm

But I'll switch it around to point out what I still do that I could cut down or stop:-

* We still take one or two return flights a year (mostly short haul to Europe) - have looked into going skiing by train and may give it a go next year
* I still have a car, and it is parked on the street
* I have procreated, but only have one and it's quite green aware
* We still eat too much meat (more poultry than red meat)
* Buying too much fruit/veg from supermarket (albeit the options with minimal/no packaging) - should use local shops more despite the higher prices
* I don't keep enough of an eye on food miles
* Still too many things delivered from ordering online
* Haven't got around to using the "refill station" at the local charity shop for household chemicals
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Martin109 on January 04, 2020, 03:03:05 pm
Now using a  scythe (http://thescytheshop.co.uk/guide.html) to do most of my grass cutting (having taken a course in 2018), rather than using a polluting mower.  It takes longer, and I can't get it all done in the hour+ it used to take, but it's more relaxing and satisfying.

We want Poldarky shirt-off pictures, or it didn't happen!

(how short can you get it? The grass I mean ;) )

On the course I did, there was much amusement around the Poldark scything scenario - pro: there was feeling it was raising the profile of scything in general (although he was using/abusing a heavy UK/US-style scythe, rather than a razor-sharp Austrian one) and con: he was making a stupid hash of it, using far more unsustainable muscle power rather than the Tai-chi-inspired gentle crescent sweep we were being taught on the course(we really did start with Tai-chi exercises, sans-scythe!).

I'll have to post a pic when I next do some short stuff - probably spring/summer; I found I could get it acceptably short, but not to bowling green standards.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on January 04, 2020, 03:18:04 pm
I've never owned a motor mower.  But its quite hard to buy a decent push mower.  Garden machinery manufacturers are more interested in fleecing the punters than being environmentally friendly.

And leaf blowers  :demon: :demon: :demon:  I have about 1000 square foot of lawn which takes 10 minutes to clear with a garden rake and is a rather therapeutic activity.   Its one of the larger lawns in the street but I seem to be the only person that doesn't use a leafblower, which would take about the same time, judging by observations of its use.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: fboab on January 04, 2020, 03:49:32 pm
Wine is no longer from outside Europe.
My current employ is bottling wine, 95% of which is from outside Europe. We're carbon negative because we generate from solar and wind turbines. Our warehouses are heated from ground pumps and we have innovative solutions to generate heat from disused mines. Long distance wine travels by boat in tanks or containers because shipping glass is really expensive. Your European wine travels by road, in bottles, It's not any more sustainable than the Chilean stuff that's shipped on a slow boat, hauled less than 20 miles from a port to a hilltop in County Durham, and then enters the retail chain through central hubs.

If you want to reduce the impact of your wine, buy bag in box (https://www.smurfitkappa.com/products-and-services/bag-in-box/bag-in-box-bib). Bottles are heavy.

On a personal level, I've had 4 children so anything else I do is pissing in the wind. I think society may thank me in the end though, as they will be economically active in the aging society for longer than I will.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Wowbagger on January 04, 2020, 04:09:07 pm
My 4 children likewise. What is more, two of them are employed in highly sustainable careers (an energy consultant and a webcast designer/manager). The others are a teacher and a senior bod in a charity, so all working for the betterment of the planet/humans.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: perpetual dan on January 04, 2020, 04:15:38 pm
Wine is no longer from outside Europe.
My current employ is bottling wine, 95% of which is from outside Europe. We're carbon negative because we generate from solar and wind turbines. Our warehouses are heated from ground pumps and we have innovative solutions to generate heat from disused mines. Long distance wine travels by boat in tanks or containers because shipping glass is really expensive. Your European wine travels by road, in bottles, It's not any more sustainable than the Chilean stuff that's shipped on a slow boat, hauled less than 20 miles from a port to a hilltop in County Durham, and then enters the retail chain through central hubs.

If you want to reduce the impact of your wine, buy bag in box (https://www.smurfitkappa.com/products-and-services/bag-in-box/bag-in-box-bib). Bottles are heavy.


That's interesting, last time I read up I think bottles from France were lower CO2 per 750ml than bulk from Australia.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Johnny Faro on January 04, 2020, 04:21:35 pm
CET if they still make it the husqvarna push mower is a good option
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Rowan on January 04, 2020, 04:33:45 pm
I've never owned a motor mower.  But its quite hard to buy a decent push mower.  Garden machinery manufacturers are more interested in fleecing the punters than being environmentally friendly.

And leaf blowers  :demon: :demon: :demon:  I have about 1000 square foot of lawn which takes 10 minutes to clear with a garden rake and is a rather therapeutic activity.   Its one of the larger lawns in the street but I seem to be the only person that doesn't use a leafblower, which would take about the same time, judging by observations of its use.
Or just leave the leaves on the lawn, the worms pull them down into the ground - about as natural and environmentally friendly as it gets. Some of my neighbours use leaf blowers and my grass is as good and clear of leaves in the spring as theirs

(a while ago I seen one clown drying his urban battle tank with a leaf blower, i was tempted to stop and video but he looked a bit pumped up) 
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Martin109 on January 04, 2020, 05:00:52 pm
Of course, the solar-PV landscape has changed somewhat, and these days it makes sense (FCVO sense) to dump excess PV-generated electricity into a hot water tank rather than feeding it back to the grid.  It's probably a more productive use of valuable roof space.

Kim, can you explain a bit more about this to an electron numpty?  I thought that using solar electricity to power anything with a heating element - kettle, toaster, immersion heater - was much more demanding on the system and much less efficient than, say, driving a motor - eg fridge, hoover.  Have I got the concept wrong, as I've never heard of using solar electricity to heat water via an immersion heater?  Perhaps it wouldn't be via an immersion heater but some other device?

It's a relevant question to me at the moment, as I consider whether to have the solar water heating array renewed (dismantled when relevant roof was being replaced (in 2016!) and not yet reinstated.  The idea of solar panels as an alternative is intriguing...
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Rowan on January 04, 2020, 05:49:52 pm
Of course, the solar-PV landscape has changed somewhat, and these days it makes sense (FCVO sense) to dump excess PV-generated electricity into a hot water tank rather than feeding it back to the grid.  It's probably a more productive use of valuable roof space.

Kim, can you explain a bit more about this to an electron numpty?  I thought that using solar electricity to power anything with a heating element - kettle, toaster, immersion heater - was much more demanding on the system and much less efficient than, say, driving a motor - eg fridge, hoover.  Have I got the concept wrong, as I've never heard of using solar electricity to heat water via an immersion heater?  Perhaps it wouldn't be via an immersion heater but some other device?

It's a relevant question to me at the moment, as I consider whether to have the solar water heating array renewed (dismantled when relevant roof was being replaced (in 2016!) and not yet reinstated.  The idea of solar panels as an alternative is intriguing...

i'm not Kim but I will give it a go - a little device known as a diverter directs any excess energy from the solar panels into the hot water tank.  it is possibly beneficial as the price the power company pay you for excess generation is about 4p per kwh where as you may be paying 14p per kwh   (bear in mind though gas is only about 4p per kwh (before efficient losses)  )
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Martin109 on January 04, 2020, 06:07:18 pm
Of course, the solar-PV landscape has changed somewhat, and these days it makes sense (FCVO sense) to dump excess PV-generated electricity into a hot water tank rather than feeding it back to the grid.  It's probably a more productive use of valuable roof space.

Kim, can you explain a bit more about this to an electron numpty?  I thought that using solar electricity to power anything with a heating element - kettle, toaster, immersion heater - was much more demanding on the system and much less efficient than, say, driving a motor - eg fridge, hoover.  Have I got the concept wrong, as I've never heard of using solar electricity to heat water via an immersion heater?  Perhaps it wouldn't be via an immersion heater but some other device?

It's a relevant question to me at the moment, as I consider whether to have the solar water heating array renewed (dismantled when relevant roof was being replaced (in 2016!) and not yet reinstated.  The idea of solar panels as an alternative is intriguing...

i'm not Kim but I will give it a go - a little device known as a diverter directs any excess energy from the solar panels into the hot water tank.  it is possibly beneficial as the price the power company pay you for excess generation is about 4p per kwh where as you may be paying 14p per kwh   (bear in mind though gas is only about 4p per kwh (before efficient losses)  )

I see, but would that be delivered to the standard 3kW immersion heater, or via some other device?
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Rowan on January 04, 2020, 06:53:38 pm
Of course, the solar-PV landscape has changed somewhat, and these days it makes sense (FCVO sense) to dump excess PV-generated electricity into a hot water tank rather than feeding it back to the grid.  It's probably a more productive use of valuable roof space.

Kim, can you explain a bit more about this to an electron numpty?  I thought that using solar electricity to power anything with a heating element - kettle, toaster, immersion heater - was much more demanding on the system and much less efficient than, say, driving a motor - eg fridge, hoover.  Have I got the concept wrong, as I've never heard of using solar electricity to heat water via an immersion heater?  Perhaps it wouldn't be via an immersion heater but some other device?

It's a relevant question to me at the moment, as I consider whether to have the solar water heating array renewed (dismantled when relevant roof was being replaced (in 2016!) and not yet reinstated.  The idea of solar panels as an alternative is intriguing...

i'm not Kim but I will give it a go - a little device known as a diverter directs any excess energy from the solar panels into the hot water tank.  it is possibly beneficial as the price the power company pay you for excess generation is about 4p per kwh where as you may be paying 14p per kwh   (bear in mind though gas is only about 4p per kwh (before efficient losses)  )

I see, but would that be delivered to the standard 3kW immersion heater, or via some other device?
(not 100% certain), but an immersion type heater is a pure resistive load therefor if the solar panels are only delivering 1000w then the heater would be giving out pretty close to a 1000w of heat energy.  not at all sure about efficiencies so at very low output may be no energy would get transferred ?
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Paul H on January 04, 2020, 07:32:42 pm
Some interesting ideas and Greenbank's list is pretty comprehensive, but does anyone think it'll make enough of a difference?
I can't see it, maybe if everyone in the developed world did everything on that list and the rest of the worlds population remained at their current sustenance or below level we'd survive.  It isn't feasible for the entire world population could have that lifestyle, is it?  All we're doing, all we can do, is find better ways to maintain the same lifestyle, when what needs to be done is to find a different way of living.  A better way to cut he grass, a better way to cross the continent to go skiing, longer lasting bike tyres... I'm not knocking any of it, I'm just dubious that it'll make any difference to saving the planet. 
Can I ask how much of your working life has been necessary? I'd guess about 20% of mine has been the processing, production and distribution of essentials, maybe another 30% has been slightly beneficial to others.  That leaves half of it a waste of effort and resource, giving people what they certainly don't need and probably don't want but have to have because everyone else does. And I've never done much work!
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Ben T on January 04, 2020, 07:45:31 pm
It is rather a big problem to all the other species that we share the planet with.  They have as much right to it as we do.

Again, only the ones that feel the need to reproduce. It probably won't be an issue for, say, pandas.
You could also argue that we're actually doing far more good to other species by wiping ourselves out than we ever would by preventing warming in the first place.

I've seen it suggested that the effect may be self-limiting in as much that humans become measurably more stupid as CO2 levels pass the 1000ppm range, and at some point we may lose the ability to use fossil fuel technology.

I'm not convinced.  Small numbers of sufficiently well-off humans would surely be able to scrub CO2 from their own personal air supply, and that of whatever supply chain was required to keep them in appropriate luxury, until everything was properly fucked.
Surely the issue with co2 though is that it’sa greenhouse gas, not that you breathe it in...
If it got to the point where you notice the concentration in what you breathe in then the greenhouse gas effect would have been, well, far more of a problem.

Well off humans by definition reproduce less than poorer ones as we’ve discussed. So after a bit you might get to the point that their filtration devices (if they’re ever a thing) would simply become so  disproportionately valuable they wouldn’t be able to protect them sufficiently and they would simply get nicked.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Paul H on January 04, 2020, 07:57:41 pm
I do wonder how much of my bike has flown to Europe, and how much has travelled by ship.
I tried to find that answer to that, but nothing that really gives a clue.  I was shocked at how many parts from the big suppliers were flown, it's possible that a customer in the UK could buy from a UK chain and that it's be flown in from somewhere else and they wouldn't necessarily know, there's nothing on the label to say that, it might not even be labelled till in the UK.
Part of this is the next day culture, just look at the reviews here and everywhere else - great service.. ordered lunchtime yesterday... here at breakfast today... that's not my idea of great service it's a wasteful use of resource.  I've never needed a bike part the next day, I wouldn't admit the incompetence if I had.  I can't think when I've ever needed anything sent next day, if there was a supplier that said they dispatch on a Friday, would it make any difference?  I'd use them.  Maybe we could even have a universal delivery day, like bin day, all your streets deliveries in one shipment once a week, think of the waste it'd save.  I spent the run up to the Christmas before last (2018) working for a major clothing chain (Yes I do make a habit of working seasonally, so I can skive off other times of the year) They don't only suffer from next day syndrome, but they've added free returns, returns rate was 40%, that's not people changing their minds, that's ordering before you've made your mind up.  Anyone seeing the scale of it and still thinking it's free, would be an idiot.
Rant over - I thought I had a point when I started...
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Rowan on January 04, 2020, 08:07:59 pm
Some interesting ideas and Greenbank's list is pretty comprehensive, but does anyone think it'll make enough of a difference?
I can't see it, maybe if everyone in the developed world did everything on that list and the rest of the worlds population remained at their current sustenance or below level we'd survive.  It isn't feasible for the entire world population could have that lifestyle, is it?  All we're doing, all we can do, is find better ways to maintain the same lifestyle, when what needs to be done is to find a different way of living.  A better way to cut he grass, a better way to cross the continent to go skiing, longer lasting bike tyres... I'm not knocking any of it, I'm just dubious that it'll make any difference to saving the planet. 
Can I ask how much of your working life has been necessary? I'd guess about 20% of mine has been the processing, production and distribution of essentials, maybe another 30% has been slightly beneficial to others.  That leaves half of it a waste of effort and resource, giving people what they certainly don't need and probably don't want but have to have because everyone else does. And I've never done much work!
indeed,  less than a billion of us have made nearly all the environmental damage we have today and another 6 billion would like to adopt our lifestyles.  Therefor even if we reduced our excesses by 86%  before passing on our lifestyles to the rest of the world, we would not have improved anything. It's a daunting uphill struggle.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: SteveC on January 04, 2020, 08:11:35 pm
It's not a zero sum game, though.
Reducing the CO2 level in the atmosphere is essential.
Reducing the usage of non-renewable materials and resources is essential.
However, with renewable stuff, which includes food, for instance, there is the chance for technological improvements to be made which will help.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Paul H on January 04, 2020, 08:27:16 pm
However, with renewable stuff, which includes food, for instance, there is the chance for technological improvements to be made which will help.
30% of food grown isn't eaten. That isn't a technological issue.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Ben T on January 04, 2020, 09:05:32 pm
Wine is no longer from outside Europe.
My current employ is bottling wine, 95% of which is from outside Europe. We're carbon negative because we generate from solar and wind turbines. Our warehouses are heated from ground pumps and we have innovative solutions to generate heat from disused mines. Long distance wine travels by boat in tanks or containers because shipping glass is really expensive. Your European wine travels by road, in bottles, It's not any more sustainable than the Chilean stuff that's shipped on a slow boat, hauled less than 20 miles from a port to a hilltop in County Durham, and then enters the retail chain through central hubs.

If you want to reduce the impact of your wine, buy bag in box (https://www.smurfitkappa.com/products-and-services/bag-in-box/bag-in-box-bib). Bottles are heavy.

On a personal level, I've had 4 children so anything else I do is pissing in the wind. I think society may thank me in the end though, as they will be economically active in the aging society for longer than I will.

That’s great, but unless I’m reading it wrong the minimum volume of a BIB is 1.5 litres... if there’s three off us and one doesn’t drink more than one or two small glasses, does that consign me to getting pissed as a loon every time we open one?
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Paul H on January 04, 2020, 09:45:46 pm
Wine is no longer from outside Europe.
My current employ is bottling wine, 95% of which is from outside Europe. We're carbon negative because we generate from solar and wind turbines. Our warehouses are heated from ground pumps and we have innovative solutions to generate heat from disused mines. Long distance wine travels by boat in tanks or containers because shipping glass is really expensive. Your European wine travels by road, in bottles, It's not any more sustainable than the Chilean stuff that's shipped on a slow boat, hauled less than 20 miles from a port to a hilltop in County Durham, and then enters the retail chain through central hubs.

If you want to reduce the impact of your wine, buy bag in box (https://www.smurfitkappa.com/products-and-services/bag-in-box/bag-in-box-bib). Bottles are heavy.

On a personal level, I've had 4 children so anything else I do is pissing in the wind. I think society may thank me in the end though, as they will be economically active in the aging society for longer than I will.

That’s great, but unless I’m reading it wrong the minimum volume of a BIB is 1.5 litres... if there’s three off us and one doesn’t drink more than one or two small glasses, does that consign me to getting pissed as a loon every time we open one?
Sounds reasonable to me  :thumbsup:
Or find a wine you like that comes in a 10 litre box and bottle it yourself, just keep reusing the bottles.
There's a problem with recycling green glass, as 60% of it's imported, either full or empty bottles, no one in the UK wants more than they can use.

OT - What happened to the pub carry out?  Did the supermarkets kill that as well.  The local where I was a kid had a hatch just inside the door, and people used to get their own bottles or jugs filled with beer, I haven't seen it since.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: fboab on January 04, 2020, 09:54:55 pm
Recycling figures for glass bottles isn't that great, even aside from the colour issue. And surely you both know that there's no need to bottle it yourself, the bag keeps the wine OK for weeks? There really is no need to polish it off in one sitting.

(As an aside the only 10 litre packs we do are altar wine )
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Paul H on January 04, 2020, 09:59:13 pm
And surely you both know that there's no need to bottle it yourself, the bag keeps the wine OK for weeks?
Yes, but there's something about opening a bottle and finishing one off, that's lost straight from the box.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: fuaran on January 04, 2020, 10:56:14 pm
Recycling figures for glass bottles isn't that great, even aside from the colour issue. And surely you both know that there's no need to bottle it yourself, the bag keeps the wine OK for weeks? There really is no need to polish it off in one sitting.
How do you dispose of the plastic bag?
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Clare on January 04, 2020, 11:09:14 pm
Open the tap, blow the bag up, close the tap, instant pillow.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Morbihan on January 04, 2020, 11:28:11 pm
Making small changes that feel like fiddling around the edges TBH.
Living in Bermuda its tough to adhere to a green lifestyle. I think its probably a common thread in many small Island nations.
To some degree larger changes can be cost prohibitive and impractical due to remoteness.
The recycling for example is appalling, but we are 700 miles offshore and don't have the infrastructure to deal with much of it.
Things that drive us nuts... You can literally see the turtles in the water that will swallow the helium balloons that have not been banned yet. FFS
Awareness is growing, particularly among the young folks, but being green is also construed as elitist in some circles.

Small stuff we have done ourselves.
Installing solar and battery back up to get off grid as much as we can.
We fly less, usually once a year to Europe and stay for an innings. We vacation rent our house here while away so its not sitting empty.
Water catchment on roofs with filter system.
We are tearing up most of the lawn to plant fruit trees and veg garden.
Next car will be electric but limited choices here due to size restrictions.
I shop by bike whenever I can and we eat local in season fish and veg whenever possible.
All wood debris on grounds now chipped, mulched on site, not trucked.
Reduced meat consumption and only ethical/grass fed/organic (read elitist)
Compost everything.
Use alternatives to plastic wrap etc.

I just wish the powers that be would get it together and make these decisions for us.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on January 05, 2020, 05:48:46 am
Some interesting ideas and Greenbank's list is pretty comprehensive, but does anyone think it'll make enough of a difference?


IMHO it's part of the solution.  If the big energy consumers in the rich world (and that includes significant parts of China and some of India's population among others) reduce their consumption, it makes it easier to replace our current dependence on coal/oil/gas directly or for electricity generation.  The other part of the solution is to generate more renewable energy (which to give the UK government its due - there are plans for extensive expansion of our offshore wind power among other things.

It's not a battle which can be won overnight, and there are major social consequences. If we all give up meat, then all those UK farmers who earn a living from raising livestock will be out of business, which could destroy a lot of rural communities.  It will also make changes to that rural landscape we cycle through - a lot of grazing land is the way it is because it is either too prone to flooding or too poor in nutrients for growing crops.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: fboab on January 05, 2020, 08:17:38 am
Recycling figures for glass bottles isn't that great, even aside from the colour issue. And surely you both know that there's no need to bottle it yourself, the bag keeps the wine OK for weeks? There really is no need to polish it off in one sitting.
How do you dispose of the plastic bag?
By the end of February they'll be EVOH. Cut the tap off, rinse it out, and recycle where any carrier bag goes - that's mostly supermarkets, local authorities tend not to have facilities for it. Taps go for energy from waste.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: ian on January 06, 2020, 11:07:32 am
I think a worse problem is that a significant minority of people (if not a majority) don't really care despite being in a position to care. This is a group of cyclists so, by definition, we're the sort of middle-class people who are kept awake by the fact we might have put something in the wrong recycling bin and how best to dispose of our wine boxes. There's lots of people who don't even fritter around the edges. Some may have convinced themselves that climate change isn't a thing, it's the most convenient of beliefs really since it offers an instant indulgence from doing anything to mitigate it; others, I expect, simply don't care. They only care about stuff that immediately benefits them. Everything else is someone else's problem.

Coupled with increasingly populist politics, governments less willing to tell us to take the medicine and more willing to tell us that, well, we don't need it. I'm pessimistic that we'll make the necessary changes. If, as a society, we can't even take the few minutes to put stuff in the recycling bin or not chuck our fried chicken take-out waste into a bush, well, I think saving the world might be a challenge and anyway Celebrity Love Master Baking Challenge Island is on.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: grams on January 06, 2020, 12:36:09 pm
It's worse than that. If you stumble into the wrong right wing circles there's a whole parallel universe where climate change is a hoax, Greta is a stooge, everyone who believes in climate change is a death cultist or virtue signaller, etc. I've encountered some otherwise normal people who quote this stuff as fact.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: ian on January 06, 2020, 12:53:33 pm
I mentioned the brilliant thread on a US conservative site (research, your honour) where – in a space of a dozen or so posts – climate change wasn't just decried, it was turned into a conspiracy by liberals to force women to have abortions. And this wasn't some febrile UmpteenChan anger-pile, it's basically Mumsnet given the teeniest nudge to the right.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Mr Larrington on January 06, 2020, 02:19:31 pm
The latest Gammon – literally, in his case – to stick his oar in is Meat Loaf, a man who thought appearing in a movie with the Spice Girls was a Good Idea :facepalm:
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: De Sisti on January 06, 2020, 05:07:12 pm
Not buying a bigger house than I need. Not changing my car every 3 years. Not having a holiday
(abroad by plane) every year.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: ian on January 06, 2020, 06:10:41 pm
We are guilty of having a too-large house, there's two of us in four bedrooms. We could have bought a bigger one (but preferred to get rid of our mortgage) but that's not an excuse.

In mitigation, we both work from home part of the time, so two rooms are offices, but the other is mostly empty other than if we have guests or a lot of washing to dry. In reverse mitigation, since we're in the office part of the week, that means our motherships are wasting light and heat to keep unoccupied desks open for when we do go in, but in reverse reverse mitigation we're cutting down on commuting.

Of course, there's the fact I go swimming, and I've no idea how that works out, that's a lot of water to heat, but equally, given the SHC of water, once it's warm the inputs might be modest but that's another first-world luxury.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: SteveC on January 06, 2020, 06:41:55 pm
<snip> Meat Loaf, a man who thought appearing in a movie with the Spice Girls was a Good Idea :facepalm:
As did Gary Glitter (they managed to cut his scenes before release)
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: mike on January 06, 2020, 06:55:48 pm
the stuff that kinda happened without concious changes are things like not changing my car in 10 years, downsizing the house massively (divorce :) ) and not really buying clothes unless they'll last for ages. 

the most recent deliberate change was stopping eating meat about 3 months ago.  As a farmers' son bought up on meat & 3 veg every meal it was a bit of a shock to the system but it's been surprisingly easy and I feel *great*.  I first tried for vegan but missed eggs and milk too much so after a month slipped back to vegetarian, with only the very occasional lapse for ham or sausages (once a fortnight?).
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Frank9755 on January 06, 2020, 09:25:00 pm
Stopped eating meat and try to avoid dairy most of the time.

Rarely fly.  One flight in the last year - to Burgas for the TCR.  Will try to avoid flying at all this year, including using train to visit clients in Germany.

Rarely drive. Virtually all of my travel is by bike, from grocery shopping to commuting, visiting clients in London, friends, etc.  Have a car but have had it for 11 years (when it was already quite old) and probaly won't buy another.  Do 3-4,miles per year, most of which is visiting parents and in-laws at 7-800 miles round trip.

Don't buy much stuff.  Bits for bikes is a bit of a weakness but I expect I'm in good company here!  Haven't bought an N+1 for 5 years, not upgraded to through axle, disc brakes, etc.

Campaign for and donate money to and am active in organisations / political parties which support the green agenda.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: fboab on January 10, 2020, 11:16:16 am
Here's the supermarkets' view on single use plastic [pdf] (https://www.green-alliance.org.uk/resources/Plastic_promises.pdf)
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 10, 2020, 05:56:39 pm
Here's the supermarkets' view on single use plastic [pdf] (https://www.green-alliance.org.uk/resources/Plastic_promises.pdf)
Key quote for me:
Quote
In relation
to targeted interventions like the promised deposit return scheme, a brand representative
noted: “If I could have a magic wand, I’d like to see more joined up, top-down government
intervention…We would like to see government be braver.”

Thanks for posting, fboab.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: aidan.f on January 11, 2020, 08:30:02 am
Yes well researched and  written.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 11, 2020, 05:32:05 pm
The thing that confused me in there was the reference to 'single-use glass'. Does this mean that some glass cannot be recycled? I wasn't aware of such a thing. How do you tell which?

Or does it mean glass that is not intended to be reused – as opposed to recycled? In other words, not made to be refillable or with a deposit?
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: bludger on January 12, 2020, 12:12:32 am
I've decided that I'm going to try to go for the whole year to buy as little brand new stuff as I can. I am still minded to go for new wheels, as I literally live or die by their health and I trust my local wheel boffins very much, but pretty much everything else I want to be second hand.

Making obvious exceptions on safety grounds... Saw this corker today....

(https://i.imgur.com/JIPe8CG.png)
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: fboab on January 14, 2020, 10:36:29 am
The thing that confused me in there was the reference to 'single-use glass'. Does this mean that some glass cannot be recycled? I wasn't aware of such a thing. How do you tell which?

Or does it mean glass that is not intended to be reused – as opposed to recycled? In other words, not made to be refillable or with a deposit?
It means not intended to be re-used. Most glass isn't refillable, so you waste energy in recycling and remanufacturing. The glass manufacturers share the cullet content of their glass and for my suppliers, that's somewhere between 25 and 75%, depending on the bottle.
Some glass is not recycled/recycleable. Generally it's quite bespoke, things like fancy finishes- maybe metallised. The other thing with glass is the weight, even if it is recycled it's quite the carbon footprint to shift it around.

Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: rafletcher on January 14, 2020, 10:45:40 am

It means not intended to be re-used. Most glass isn't refillable....


Can you expand on the reasons behind that please?
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: fboab on January 14, 2020, 10:56:41 am
I'm no expert, but generally, food packagers just aren't set up for cleaning the packaging before they fill it. The legislation is against us, too, for example only virgin plastic can be in contact with food. There's a perceived conflict between food safety, cost and environmental impact, and food safety has historically won, with cost a very close second. I'd like to think that is, at last, changing.
For me the most interesting thing about the report is that we as consumers are not putting our money where our talk is. We're still buying the same stuff we always have done. Which makes the comment Cudzo highlighted even more relevant.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: rafletcher on January 14, 2020, 11:56:15 am
I'm no expert, but generally, food packagers just aren't set up for cleaning the packaging before they fill it. ...

OK, I can understand that. I've been in a couple of factories where they did re-fill glass containers, and it's a big investment in both space and equipment.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 14, 2020, 12:01:53 pm
Presumably non-food glass can be refilled without the same safety concerns. I'm thinking of perfumes, creams and ointments. If it's good enough for milk, it must be safe enough for those, surely?
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: fboab on January 14, 2020, 12:10:23 pm
Anything that touches your body is subject to pretty strict, erm, strictures, too.

Milk is the exception for historical reasons. We were already using and re-using glass when we started worrying about food safety. New dairies pack into plastic, mostly.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: rafletcher on January 14, 2020, 04:50:14 pm
Presumably non-food glass can be refilled without the same safety concerns. I'm thinking of perfumes, creams and ointments. If it's good enough for milk, it must be safe enough for those, surely?

They'd have to be just as clean to prevent damaging/contaminating the new product (you'd have no idea what use the container had been put to after it was emptied of it's original contents), so no real difference in costs.

The great advantage of plastic over glass are easy on-site manufacture (not many large facilities will buy in empty plastic containers, they'll be blow moulded on site - and in the case of some contact lens solutions, the solution is used to cool the container as it's filled), and of course volume and weight for transport. Rectangular containers enable some (IIRC) 30% additional volume over circular.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 15, 2020, 12:10:41 pm
Apparently researchers at the University of Leeds have found that washing clothes at 25C for 30 minutes reduces the number of microfibres shed and amount of dye that bleeds, while Proctor & Gamble reckon their detergent gets stuff clean at just 20C. But why 25C?
Quote
Lucy Cotton, the report’s lead author, explains that 25C is usually the “inlet” temperature of water in a washing machine – the natural, unchilled and unheated temperature at which the water enters the drum.
Really? That might be true in summer but even then I reckon it would need to be a fairly warm day. I'm sure our cold water in winter is nowhere near 25C.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: perpetual dan on January 16, 2020, 07:39:58 am
I'm no expert, but generally, food packagers just aren't set up for cleaning the packaging before they fill it. ...

OK, I can understand that. I've been in a couple of factories where they did re-fill glass containers, and it's a big investment in both space and equipment.
Our local brewery manages it, though they are apparently the only one. Shows its possible though.  https://www.harveys.org.uk/our-green-credentials (https://www.harveys.org.uk/our-green-credentials)
I could claim reusing bottles transported by foot here too, i suppose.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Rowan on January 16, 2020, 10:19:55 am
Apparently researchers at the University of Leeds have found that washing clothes at 25C for 30 minutes reduces the number of microfibres shed and amount of dye that bleeds, while Proctor & Gamble reckon their detergent gets stuff clean at just 20C. But why 25C?
Quote
Lucy Cotton, the report’s lead author, explains that 25C is usually the “inlet” temperature of water in a washing machine – the natural, unchilled and unheated temperature at which the water enters the drum.
Really? That might be true in summer but even then I reckon it would need to be a fairly warm day. I'm sure our cold water in winter is nowhere near 25C.
ours mains water varies from around 6°c in the winter to 16 in the summer (record high of 17.5)(min 4.4)

I have no idea what temp our storage tank is throughout the year but considering the energy involved in heating water there could be savings made from selecting between main and storage to make use of the warmest.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 16, 2020, 10:36:24 am
I've never measured ours – don't even have a thermometer that would do the job – but that sounds the kind of range I'd have expected.

And how come I've only just noticed the wonderful nominative determinism in the report?  :D
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Mrs Pingu on January 16, 2020, 08:41:59 pm
But does 30 mins washing get clothes clean?
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Andrew Br on January 16, 2020, 09:31:07 pm
.......................for example only virgin plastic can be in contact with food.....................

I'm not entirely sure about this boab. In a previous job I had a customer who recycled milk cartons and the resulting pellets went to make more milk cartons. Ironically, they're based up your way.

But, like you
Quote
I'm no expert,

Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 16, 2020, 09:39:39 pm
But does 30 mins washing get clothes clean?
They didn't actually test that...
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Jaded on January 16, 2020, 11:19:49 pm
Held a meeting looking at what our town can do to ameliorate the claimte emergency. Second part of the meeting next week.

Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: ian on January 17, 2020, 09:27:46 am
Held a meeting looking at what our town can do to ameliorate the claimte emergency. Second part of the meeting next week.

Surely you could push it out till 2030?
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Greenbank on January 17, 2020, 07:57:34 pm
Oh well.

My wife has flown down to Cornwall for a funeral (the trains were going to cost more than twice as much and be impractical in terms of times - you generally don't get enough advance notice of funerals in order to be able to book the cheap advance fares).

My sister-in-law is taking our daughter down to Cornwall for part of half term, by plane.

(Yes those are both FlyBE. Personally I think APD should have been ringfenced but it's standard business tactics to pay the Government last and then negotiate when you can't make those payments.)

I'm going skiing in early Feb.

Of course, all 3 trips aren't entirely necessary, we could just choose not to do them.

But that's all 3 of us blowing our "one short haul return flight a year" in almost the first month. Luckily we don't have plans to do any other flying the rest of the year, we'll go to France in the summer by train again, and I'm looking into skiing next year by train.

In other news, we do most of our washing at 30 degrees on the rapid (30 minute) cycle, seems good enough for us, but it is only a half load (3.5kg). Not entirely sure it uses half the water or half the energy of a full 100 minute wash (which can take a full 7kg load, which we do at 30 deg C too) so it may be a false economy.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Phil W on January 17, 2020, 08:13:47 pm
Getting to French ski resorts by train is easy once you’ve got to London. We just used Euro Star to Paris then TGV from there in the past.  We’d have lunch in Paris on the way. We also got 15% off the cost from the ski company which offset any costs above that of flying.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Phil W on January 17, 2020, 08:18:04 pm
Had my car MOTD this week.  Mileage last couple of years has been around 4,000 miles. It was 1900 miles for the last year.  Car is 10 years old so will keep running it. If UK transport was integrated I’d get rid of it, But transporting a bike on public transport is shit or not possible. Still remember seeing bike racks on the back of Vancouver buses back in 2000 and thinking what a great idea.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: pcolbeck on January 18, 2020, 10:15:42 am
Getting to French ski resorts by train is easy once you’ve got to London. We just used Euro Star to Paris then TGV from there in the past.  We’d have lunch in Paris on the way. We also got 15% off the cost from the ski company which offset any costs above that of flying.

Absolutely. Its the £300 return ticket (2nd class) per person to get to London and the night in a hotel in London as the Eurostar train departure times for such things are usually too early in the morning that buggers it up for those of us North of Watford or in the West Country.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: simonp on January 18, 2020, 11:55:34 am
Getting to Paris-Brest-Paris with the coach was about a 12h trip. It's obvious why people fly.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: pcolbeck on January 18, 2020, 12:59:15 pm
There is also a load of non joined up thinking and policy. North Yorkshire Council for example keep running recycling campaigns encouraging everyone to recycle everything but then their own schools send all their waste paper (which there is an enormous amount of obviously) to landfill as they get charged as businesses by the council (which they have no budget for) if they want to recycle it. Bonkers.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: T42 on January 18, 2020, 01:08:41 pm
In re bonkers the best I've seen was when a professional-training bunch I had for a client had new brochures printed.  Boss had a look at them; the conversation went roughly like this:

- We're supposed to set environmentally-responsible standards, and that means not printing brochures on brand-new paper. Junk the lot and reprint them on recycled stuff.

- That is recycled stuff.

- It doesn't look recycled enough. Junk the lot and reprint them on something a bit grey.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: fd3 on January 18, 2020, 07:29:18 pm
Never had a driving lesson, let alone driven a car.
Vegan.
Electricity tariff that is 100% renewable.
Home thermostats set low.
My personal budget is £300 a year, so I reduce/reuse/upcycle/skip-dive as my first option.
Re-usable batteries about the house is my 2020 resolution.
Recycle.
In the last year I have taken two flights, once to see my dad before he died and once for his funeral.

Some points to debate:
* A complete carbon cost analysis suggests that some imports are lower CO2 cost than buying local (more than one source on this - the one interesting thing I read in "Greedy Man in a Hungry World" by J Rayner).
* If we don't procreate then the next generation will be the children of non-cyclists and they will inherit/destroy the earth.  Even with three kids, the fact that we are vegan (kids veggie), car free and on a renewable tariff means that our footprint is smaller than a couple with no kids, one car and omnivorous diet (let alone two cars and holidays to Spain).
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Phil W on January 18, 2020, 07:55:14 pm
There is also a load of non joined up thinking and policy. North Yorkshire Council for example keep running recycling campaigns encouraging everyone to recycle everything but then their own schools send all their waste paper (which there is an enormous amount of obviously) to landfill as they get charged as businesses by the council (which they have no budget for) if they want to recycle it. Bonkers.

The three arrows also represent reduce, reuse, recycle.  Only the latter gets focus when the former ought to be considered first.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Ben T on January 18, 2020, 10:46:31 pm
In re bonkers the best I've seen was when a professional-training bunch I had for a client had new brochures printed.  Boss had a look at them; the conversation went roughly like this:

- We're supposed to set environmentally-responsible standards, and that means not printing brochures on brand-new paper. Junk the lot and reprint them on recycled stuff.

- That is recycled stuff.

- It doesn't look recycled enough. Junk the lot and reprint them on something a bit grey.

At a well known energy company I used to work at, one woman reported seeing the blue, green, red, grey and yellow (basically all of them) recycling bins all being emptied into the same bin lorry.

I also once overheard an approx 10 year old girl, of fairly well to do parents, proudly declaring that she was going to throw away her plastic toothbrush, in order to get a bamboo one.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: IanDG on January 18, 2020, 11:34:10 pm
Bought a cottage that we thought change the kitchen and bathroom and move in  but end up ripping it all apart because there's no insulation. Will be fully insulated when we move in hopefully reducing the energy requirement of the previous owner.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Frank9755 on January 19, 2020, 07:20:58 am

ours mains water varies from around 6°c in the winter to 16 in the summer (record high of 17.5)(min 4.4)

I have no idea what temp our storage tank is throughout the year but considering the energy involved in heating water there could be savings made from selecting between main and storage to make use of the warmest.

Interesting point.  We have a pressurised hot water cylinder (megaflo) that takes water directly from the mains.  It would use less energy to have a second pressurised cylinder to hold water to allow it to warm up to ambient temperature (in our unheated but warm garage) then use that to feed the boiler.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: ElyDave on January 19, 2020, 09:08:37 am
A large distinction between professional and personal,

Personal
- never owned a new car, so reducing embedded carbon usage. Current car is sixteen years old, and dying, but will need replacing which will be second hand again. I only do about 3-4,000 miles a year in it, so fuel economy is not a major consideration - I'd happily pay more for road transport fuel for an additional green levy. Try and cycle for transport as much as possible, but not to the extremes of self-flaggellation
- food, buy as much as I can on the market, eggs from a farm within an hours cycle from me, veggies even closer. I'd happily buy all my fruit and veg like that, and I genuinely think English produce is amongst the best and enjoy the seasonality.  Mrs ED happily ocados blueberries from Peru.
- meat, very much reduced but I do have a weakness for cheese
- last couple of holidays I've had in the UK, by car. Mrs Ed has flown, she doesn't like bikes or camping. This year will be a family holiday in Europe.
- solar PV on the house which heats the hot water tank before exporting to the grid. Perversely ends up with higher tumble dryer use, when the sun is shining, free electric after all.

Work is a bit trickier, not many people in my company qualified to do what I do, so when we have BigOil in Australia wanting to use us, do we just say no, its not within our environmental policy, or rationalise on the basis that I'm there to help them reduce their environmental footprint? Then the new job, helping companies including BigGas reduce their own energy usage, which is more environmentally friendly, allowing them to extract the gas more efficiently for someone else to burn it on a power station, though much more efficiently.

I've started taking the train to the airport, rather than sitting in the back if a taxi, unless its not logistically feasible. Trains to Aberdeen are marginal, OK to get there, mostly unfeasible home, so who pays for me to stay an extra night and catch the train in the morning?

I am however vastly impressed by the ingenuity of the industry sectors I mostly work in, with some definitely out of the box thinking, ahead of regulation. Mostly now being driven by science, economics and public perception, extinction rebellion not included mostly because they simply have no idea how to even start implementing what they state they want. I'm pretty sure technology will save us, but I may not be around to see it, I'd like to see a government initiating a personal cap and trade scheme, individual carbon budgets, emit more if you like, but you buy the excess on the market. I can't see it happening though, electoral suicide.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: rob on January 19, 2020, 08:18:05 pm
I’m having more of a problem with work.  I look after wholesale power, gas, carbon and renewable credits.  I’ve done some interesting deals in the renewable/greentech space, but we’ve also missed a few as management take a very traditional view and aren’t really interested.

What I’m finding harder to deal with is that we are expanding our coal business and doing more physical oil and refined products.  Also we’re getting into palm oil and I’m deeply uncomfortable with that. 

Leaving would be biting off my nose to spite my face financially but I’ll have to take a call at some point.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Quisling on January 20, 2020, 11:54:49 am
I’m having more of a problem with work.  I look after wholesale power, gas, carbon and renewable credits.  I’ve done some interesting deals in the renewable/greentech space, but we’ve also missed a few as management take a very traditional view and aren’t really interested.

What I’m finding harder to deal with is that we are expanding our coal business and doing more physical oil and refined products.  Also we’re getting into palm oil and I’m deeply uncomfortable with that. 

Leaving would be biting off my nose to spite my face financially but I’ll have to take a call at some point.

That's a tough one Rob.  You know I'm in the same industry and worked for E.ON throughout the time they were planning on building a replacement coal plant at Kingsnorth which they eventually shelved.  Whilst they are doing a lot of good stuff now, a lot of it is still lip-service/greenwash. I eventually got out and set myself up as a one man energy consultancy taking on business on my own terms and making consistent decisions about the standards I set, including re-investing my pension into ethical/zero fossil funds.
Ultimately, the sooner we make principled decisions as individuals, the sooner things will change.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: ElyDave on January 20, 2020, 01:33:24 pm
I’m having more of a problem with work.  I look after wholesale power, gas, carbon and renewable credits.  I’ve done some interesting deals in the renewable/greentech space, but we’ve also missed a few as management take a very traditional view and aren’t really interested.

What I’m finding harder to deal with is that we are expanding our coal business and doing more physical oil and refined products.  Also we’re getting into palm oil and I’m deeply uncomfortable with that. 

Leaving would be biting off my nose to spite my face financially but I’ll have to take a call at some point.

That's a tough one Rob.  You know I'm in the same industry and worked for E.ON throughout the time they were planning on building a replacement coal plant at Kingsnorth which they eventually shelved.  Whilst they are doing a lot of good stuff now, a lot of it is still lip-service/greenwash. I eventually got out and set myself up as a one man energy consultancy taking on business on my own terms and making consistent decisions about the standards I set, including re-investing my pension into ethical/zero fossil funds.
Ultimately, the sooner we make principled decisions as individuals, the sooner things will change.

I'm interested as another working in a similar field, how you view my post? Should I be able to intellectually rationalise my work travel on the basis that I'm helping clients be better?
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Quisling on January 20, 2020, 04:18:32 pm
I too wrestle with a balance between having serious eco-principles and needing to feed my family.  I take each job on a case by case basis, motivated less by money generally and more (in no particular order) by whether (a) the job interests me or gives me a learning opportunity or chance of further work, (b) I have other ongoing work or not and (c) the potential employer is evil.  The deciding factor is usually whether or not I think my work has value which serves the long-term interests of the planet.  It it helps nudge a company to be less environmentally harmful then it serves a purpose.  However, I'd rather be working for a client who is leading the charge to net zero than one who is unprepared to take bold steps in line with the seriousness of the climate crisis.
Bonus points to clients who are social in their goals/ownership structure etc.

Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: ElyDave on January 20, 2020, 07:14:00 pm
It's a tough choice isn't it. I probably have less freedom to act than you do in that respect, but it is at least partly behind my move. I want to work with companies that are taking this seriously and taking action for the right reasons. I have lost all interest in trying to drag clients along who are only interested in a rubber stamp of their compliance, its simply not enough these days.

The interesting one recently is a company that needed me to write a report on their energy an environmental management systems for a new project to produce various polymers from a gas stream that is currently flared.

I'm not convinced their route is the most efficient from a GHG perspective, but its better than the flaring
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: simonp on January 20, 2020, 07:27:22 pm
Took my own container to the salad bar today.

Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: fboab on January 21, 2020, 10:04:18 am
Work. Welll.

Intensive agriculture, dairy and pigs.
Construction - have you seen the emissions from concrete manufacture?
Widgets- relatively minor
Flavours-pointless shipping of toxic chemicals round the globe to add to processed food
Oils - rarely an ethical supply chain in the bulk supply
Wine packaging - utterly frivolous

Hmmm. I might as well have been in banking.

Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: road-runner on January 27, 2020, 04:53:06 pm
Today I finished changing almost of our light bulbs at home to LED. If we turned all the lights on a year ago they would have used 1,019 watts but as of today that is now down to 92 watts. I have not changed the cooker hood, oven or microwave lights as I don't yet know whether I can replace them with LEDs.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Kim on January 27, 2020, 05:01:25 pm
I wouldn't bother with the oven.  The thermostat will just run the heating element (or burn gas) ever so slightly longer to make up for the lack of heat from the lamp.  And I wouldn't bother with the microwave or fridge on account of the low duty cycle, unless it needs replacing anyway.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Diver300 on January 27, 2020, 07:44:07 pm
Wot Kim said about the oven lights. It's just part of the heating system. Also, LED lights are likely to melt in the temperature of the oven. LED lamps may be too hot to touch when running, but they are far cooler than equivalent incandescent lights, so the fact that they can't stand the high temperatures doesn't matter, as they never get there.

However, in an oven, the self-heating of the lamp isn't relevant as the oven gets too hot on it's own for most electronics.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Jaded on January 27, 2020, 08:25:41 pm
<obli_old_person_grumble>
"Lights in Ovens? What the chuff are they for? When I were a lad we didn't have lights in ovens, in fact we didn't have ovens, we just put the gruel on Dad's head and wound him up..."
</obli_old_person_grumble>
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Kim on January 27, 2020, 08:27:44 pm
There's a light in our oven.  It doesn't work, and I have no intention of getting up to my armpits in oven mank to fix it.  It's not like you can see anything through the door without getting on the floor anyway.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: De Sisti on January 27, 2020, 09:01:26 pm
Have been using energy saving lightbulbs in the house for years.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Ham on January 27, 2020, 09:21:46 pm
Have been using energy saving lightbulbs in the house for years.


....and one has almost warmed up so that we can see, now!
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: De Sisti on January 27, 2020, 09:37:30 pm
Have been using energy saving lightbulbs in the house for years.


....and one has almost warmed up so that we can see, now!
I'd call it a sympathetic lighting effect.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: ElyDave on January 27, 2020, 09:47:49 pm
I have a WIN to report, having complained bitterly for [$ YEARS] about homeopathic beside lamps we now have two new bright funky LED lamps.  The old ones went to the spare room. The spare room ones were even older and will go to shed & gym
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Bolt on January 27, 2020, 11:24:18 pm
Today I finished changing almost of our light bulbs at home to LED. If we turned all the lights on a year ago they would have used 1,019 watts but as of today that is now down to 92 watts.

And this is what I don't get about the whole debate with respect to domestic consumption.  Lighting, heating, domestic appliances and even cars are super efficient in comparison to what they used to be, certainly in my living memory.  So is it the case that there are just too many of us living on the planet that render these significant improvements in energy efficiency to be futile? 
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Jurek on January 27, 2020, 11:26:46 pm
Have been using energy saving lightbulbs in the house for years.


....and one has almost warmed up so that we can see, now!
I'd call it a sympathetic lighting effect.

FTFY  ;)
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: fd3 on January 28, 2020, 12:02:40 am
@Bolt: some appliances are *much* more efficient (e.g. bulbs), some are just more efficient than the previous, while still being not that great a use of energy (e.g. dryers, dehumidifiers).  While we may have wacked some insulation on our homes, we are still decades away from the efficiency they have in Nordic states and will remain so because the solution in most cases is to knock down our lovely 100 year old homes and build again from scratch.  Our cars are more efficient, but then also bigger and therefore less efficient.  I remember an article in the last 5 years that pointed out that the fuel efficiency of a hybrid is about the same as an original 2CV (facts may be subject to memory).
Any while we have made this progress, we have not made much progress on food (because the solution is to go vegan, and even the vegetarians don't want to do that - or to put it in Clarkson terms "I won't give up meat for a whole day") and air transport.
So while we have made significant improvements in some aspects of our footprint, this is in no way a significant change to the majority of our footprint.  So, I would say, no, it's not just that there are too many of us (but there may be too many of us to all live a 90s Western lifestyle (cue images of cowboys in the 90s)).
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: simonp on January 28, 2020, 12:29:56 am
Today I finished changing almost of our light bulbs at home to LED. If we turned all the lights on a year ago they would have used 1,019 watts but as of today that is now down to 92 watts.

And this is what I don't get about the whole debate with respect to domestic consumption.  Lighting, heating, domestic appliances and even cars are super efficient in comparison to what they used to be, certainly in my living memory.  So is it the case that there are just too many of us living on the planet that render these significant improvements in energy efficiency to be futile?

Energy per capital globally has been rising significantly because a lot more people have Nice Things such as cars. The energy efficiency improvement of cars is also wiped out by relentlessly increasing size and power.

Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: De Sisti on January 28, 2020, 06:36:19 am
Have been using energy saving lightbulbs in the house for years.


....and one has almost warmed up so that we can see, now!
I'd call it a sympathetic lighting effect.

FTFY  ;)
Not really, otherwise I'd be wearing my shades indoors. 8)
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: ian on January 28, 2020, 07:59:48 am
@Bolt: some appliances are *much* more efficient (e.g. bulbs), some are just more efficient than the previous, while still being not that great a use of energy (e.g. dryers, dehumidifiers).  While we may have wacked some insulation on our homes, we are still decades away from the efficiency they have in Nordic states and will remain so because the solution in most cases is to knock down our lovely 100 year old homes and build again from scratch.  Our cars are more efficient, but then also bigger and therefore less efficient.  I remember an article in the last 5 years that pointed out that the fuel efficiency of a hybrid is about the same as an original 2CV (facts may be subject to memory).
Any while we have made this progress, we have not made much progress on food (because the solution is to go vegan, and even the vegetarians don't want to do that - or to put it in Clarkson terms "I won't give up meat for a whole day") and air transport.
So while we have made significant improvements in some aspects of our footprint, this is in no way a significant change to the majority of our footprint.  So, I would say, no, it's not just that there are too many of us (but there may be too many of us to all live a 90s Western lifestyle (cue images of cowboys in the 90s)).

Yes, people buy a car the size of a small bungalow and offset it with a couple of lightbulbs. Air transport, while bad, isn't relatively near to close the worst thing, but it's totemic. Everything gets shipped around the world. In the context of Brexit, I was reading about just-in-time supply chains and components being shipped back and forth. Insane, tbh.

Eating less meat is a good thing, being vegan, I'm not sure. Much 'plant-based' food is heavily processed (now veganism is the new virtue) and comes from intensive crops. Choosing ethical food would be the better thing. Of course, it's complicated, because you once you step away from intensive agriculture, then you start to become less efficient, the inputs go up, you need more land.

But yeah, there's too many of us consuming too much.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Ham on January 28, 2020, 08:00:38 am
So is it the case that there are just too many of us living on the planet that render these significant improvements in energy efficiency to be futile?

My view? yes.

If you visit those cities in the developing world whose population is a significant proportion of the entire UK, whose population's main concern is to improve their standard of living (mostly by selling STUFF to us), whose infrastructure is incapable of supporting - for example - widespread charging of electric vehicles, and who exist in a fug of pollution I suspect you might think so, too.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 28, 2020, 09:17:10 am
This is why I don't think technology can avert climate changes and related problems. It's not fundamentally a technological problem, it's one of human (or other species) desire.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: T42 on January 28, 2020, 09:34:39 am
That ^^^, although I'm not sure where the other species come in. We seem to be working hard to get rid of them.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 28, 2020, 09:56:37 am
I'm just thinking that if it weren't humans, there'd be some other intelligent species making things and using things up. But maybe there wouldn't and maybe if there were, that would make them humans.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Ben T on January 28, 2020, 10:34:54 am
I'm just thinking that if it weren't humans, there'd be some other intelligent species making things and using things up. But maybe there wouldn't and maybe if there were, that would make them humans.
Whatever species it is, they're always going to try and push the limit of how many of them the planet can support. Let's face it, if there were only half a billion people on earth but they were still all driving around in cars and planes like us, then they wouldn't have anywhere near as much of a problem. Which suggests to me that "sustainability" is an entirely false notion because the more we save the planet, the more people it will be able to support. Bit like building more road to counter congestion - people just drive more and fill it up. The "utopia" of stable population and 'sustainability' doesn't exist. All sustainability does is provide the ability to sustain more people.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Wowbagger on January 28, 2020, 11:55:05 am
One change I made was to campaign with FoE when we spent ages giving out CFL bulbs to the public in exchange for their signature on a bit of paper. This lead to EDM 178 being signed by over 400 MPs and later resulted in the Climate Change Act 2008.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: T42 on January 28, 2020, 12:38:37 pm
One change I made was to campaign with FoE when we spent ages giving out CFL bulbs to the public in exchange for their signature on a bit of paper. This lead to EDM 178 being signed by over 400 MPs and later resulted in the Climate Change Act 2008.

Trouble is that the promise of CFL & LED bulbs has been dulled by their lousy lifetimes. I've taken to writing the replacement date on the bulb at the base of the envelope; this weekend I replaced one with 10/11/2019 on it.  The Anglepoise in my office has had the same incandescent in it for a good 10 years at least.  And I just noticed that the twin LED strip light that I put up a year ago has already lost one "tube". How much energy goes into manufacturing and transporting ten times more ecobulbs than incandescents?

Another thing I'm noticing is that while many old-style bulbs could be used for many things, their eco-friendly "replacements" are strictly single-purpose.  Incandescents made great heaters for such things as wood-bending irons, incubators and fermentation cupboards.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Mr Larrington on January 28, 2020, 12:46:53 pm
And indoor cultivation of cannabis sativa.

Who, me, officer?
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Kim on January 28, 2020, 12:49:14 pm
That's not a problem of technology - it's perfectly possible to engineer an LED lamp with a long life - it's one of capitalism.  Why make an expensive lamp that lasts for ages when you can make a cheaper, brighter one that fails after 18 months?  'Twas ever thus. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel)
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Phil W on January 28, 2020, 12:55:13 pm
I read somewhere that concrete is responsible for around 12% of all global CO2 emissions.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Phil W on January 28, 2020, 12:56:11 pm
Kettles are a laugh nearly always boiling 2-3 times as much water as needed for a cup.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Greenbank on January 28, 2020, 12:56:47 pm
That's not a problem of technology - it's perfectly possible to engineer an LED lamp with a long life - it's one of capitalism.  Why make an expensive lamp that lasts for ages when you can make a cheaper, brighter one that fails after 18 months?  'Twas ever thus. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_in_the_White_Suit
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Greenbank on January 28, 2020, 12:58:47 pm
Kettles are a laugh nearly always boiling 2-3 times as much water as needed for a cup.

Less of a problem for half the year where it means your heating bills will be slightly lower. Not sure of the efficiency differences between heating and kettles though.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Kim on January 28, 2020, 01:04:50 pm
Kettles, like electric heaters, are 100% efficient at heating rooms (unless you pour some of the hot water down the drain).

The interesting one is heating a kettle full of water before pouring it into a saucepan on a gas hob, as per 240V BRITISH tradition.  Obviously the kettle is more efficient at heating the water, but it becomes a lot more complicated when you consider the entire system (including whether the heat wasted by the hob is usefully heating the house).

I could claim all sorts of energy efficiency wins for not drinking tea/coffee, but ultimately it comes down to them tasting bad.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: quixoticgeek on January 28, 2020, 01:08:08 pm
I read somewhere that concrete is responsible for around 12% of all global CO2 emissions.

Which is why we aren't demolishing the UK housing stock to make brand new passif haus buildings. Yes they would have lower emissions, but the embodied energy in the housing stock is formidable, and so the net result would not be an improvement.

There are steps that can be taken to improve the footprint of your average house, but in many cases this involves making a room 100mm smaller on each dimension, which for your average rabbit hutch, really sucks.

Wrt to lights, when I moved into my flat in the UK in the early 2000's, my bedroom had 3 100w bulbs. There are now 3x 9w bulbs in there. A 91% drop in power use. Unfortunately most of that 273w is replaced by heat from the heaters in the winter, so it only really has an appreciable benefit on the power bill in summer.

On the plus side, the LED bulbs have lasted about 5 times as long as the filament bulbs I had, and about twice as long as the CFT.

IME, LED bulbs obey the Sam Vimes Economic Model. You get what you pay for.

In my Amsterdam flat I have gone for the IKEA Tradfri bulbs, which are all fancy IoT devices that I can controlled with my phone. A useful feature of this, is that I have a timer setup to turn all the lights on for 1 minute, and then turn them all off again in the middle of the day. The purpose of which is if I've forgotten to turn the lights off when leaving for work, the lights get turned off, and don't stay on all day. I had to turn them all on for 1 minute, as the ikea app doesn't allow for timers to just turn things off...

Simple stuff like this can be really good for energy savings.

J
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 28, 2020, 01:33:15 pm
I read somewhere that concrete is responsible for around 12% of all global CO2 emissions.

Which is why we aren't demolishing the UK housing stock to make brand new passif haus buildings. Yes they would have lower emissions, but the embodied energy in the housing stock is formidable, and so the net result would not be an improvement.
No, the reason we aren't doing that is because it would lead to an epidemic of House Price Cancer.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Kim on January 28, 2020, 01:37:28 pm
I've built a several of flicker-free dimmable LED lamps, on account of barakta's photosensitive migraine issues.  (It's basically impossible to tell whether an off-the-shelf lamp will have problematic flicker, though most CFLs will have some ripple, and you can be reasonably sure the cheap nasty LED lamps will strobe at twice the supply frequency, and anything doing PWM dimming will be in the <1000Hz visible range.)

In doing so, I've designed them to under-drive the LEDs which makes them run cooler and greatly prolongs their lifespan.  I've also used quality components in the drivers, and of course since I've got the designs and used screw-based construction techniques, it's all eminently servicable.  Also, because feeping creaturism, they turn off[1] when there's nobody in the room, which saves a decent chunk of power.  But I'm under no illusions that handbuilt one-off construction of electronics is in any way resource efficient.  I've used way more Stuff than a simple light bulb, the per-item energy costs will be non-trivial[2], and the supply chain is hardly efficient.

On the gripping hand, since the alternative would be tungsten[3], it's probably a long-term win.


[1] For "quiescent power of about 2 watts" values of 'off' - the power supply and microcontroller are still active so they can turn back on again[4].
[2] Just look at the energy consumed by hand-building (sodlering, power tools, and - because I'm getting old - lighting throughout the process), even before considering that used while writing firmware and arsing about in CAD that isn't offset by mass production.
[3] Barakta can see the 100Hz ripple on halogen lighting, so even that isn't a panacea.
[4] Automatic lighting being an accessibility win for the hand-impaired.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Ham on January 28, 2020, 03:59:25 pm

IME, LED bulbs obey the Sam Vimes Economic Model. You get what you pay for.

Would that were so. For sure, buying cheap is not a thing to do especially with the inbuilt propensity for heating way beyond their declared wattage, but buying expensive doesn't guarantee jack. I tend to look for brands where you can identify quality, eg a ceramic base, but again, no guarantee.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: T42 on January 28, 2020, 05:22:22 pm
That's not a problem of technology - it's perfectly possible to engineer an LED lamp with a long life - it's one of capitalism.  Why make an expensive lamp that lasts for ages when you can make a cheaper, brighter one that fails after 18 months?  'Twas ever thus. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel)

Of course it is. One of unfettered capitalism, that is.

---o0o---

Meanwhile, Total are being sued for not taking environmental concerns serious. They're accused of being responsible for at least 1% of greenhouse gas emissions.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: grams on January 28, 2020, 05:41:31 pm
I can’t remember the last time I replaced an LED bulb, and half the ones in the flat are from Poundland.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Jurek on January 28, 2020, 06:16:34 pm
I've replaced quite a few.
Mostly candle-flame shaped ones.
Yeah, I know.
But they're the only ones which can be accommodated into the very slim porthole-like ceiling lights I have in my hall.
Thankfully they are behind frosted glass, so their shape isn't immediately apparent.
Curiously, the candle-flame shaped halogens they replaced, used to fail with alarming frequency, as did the incandescent ones which preceded them.
I've taken to buying only Phillips branded ones, and only buying them from a retailer who will offer refunds/ replacements without giving me grief.
So, goodbye Screwfix and your insistence that my lamps are failing because I must live close to an electricity sub-station (I don't) which subjects the lamps to over-volting (is that actually a thing? Or is it just a thing of Screwfix retail counter trained sparkies?).
I now obtain the lamps from John Lewis, who are generally a bit more relaxed when it comes to refunds / replacements, and won't subject me to bullshit and insults in the process of doing so.
My surprise however, remains, as I find the claim by Phillips of a lamp longevity of 15 years, or 15,000 hours use or 50,000 service cycles to be up there with King Arthur, Medusa, Aesop and other myths, fables and legends.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Kim on January 28, 2020, 06:21:35 pm
So, goodbye Screwfix and your insistence that my lamps are failing because I must live close to an electricity sub-station (I don't) which subjects the lamps to over-volting (is that actually a thing? Or is it just a thing of Screwfix retail counter trained sparkies?).

Out-of-spec voltage is certainly a thing (see posts passim about our low voltage problems), but while living right next to the substation is likely to mean less voltage drop, it's more to do with changes in the amount of load since the distribution guys last had reason to turn up and fiddle with the transformer taps or whatever.  (Bafflingly, there's no permanent monitoring of the last mile service.)
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Jurek on January 28, 2020, 06:35:30 pm
So, goodbye Screwfix and your insistence that my lamps are failing because I must live close to an electricity sub-station (I don't) which subjects the lamps to over-volting (is that actually a thing? Or is it just a thing of Screwfix retail counter trained sparkies?).

Out-of-spec voltage is certainly a thing (see posts passim about our low voltage problems), but while living right next to the substation is likely to mean less voltage drop, it's more to do with changes in the amount of load since the distribution guys last had reason to turn up and fiddle with the transformer taps or whatever.  (Bafflingly, there's no permanent monitoring of the last mile service.)

It was a bit of a tongue in cheek question (I'm aware that out-of-spec voltage is a thing) it was more of a reflection of Screwfix's piss-poor customer service, where they'll pluck the flimsiest of stuff from the ether to avoid adhering to their obligations insofar as the Sale of Goods Act is concerned.

Anecdata time: We were re-furbing an exhibition at Wroughton Airfield, a few years ago. We'd contracted some electrical work out to some sparkies, because that is what they do best.
The sparkies expressed some surprise when 267v showed up on their multimeter.
Sure enough, 20m away from the doors of the hangar a sub-station was happily emanating its warm hum....
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: quixoticgeek on January 28, 2020, 10:32:40 pm

On the metro home from work I looked up at the office blocks near the station, all lit up with noone at the desks, at 2100. I could light my flat on a single 1w led, and wouldn't in a year get the same power savings, as would occur if businesses like these just turned their bloody lights off at night...

J
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Peter on January 28, 2020, 10:35:36 pm
I don't talk as much as I used ro.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: T42 on January 29, 2020, 08:17:30 am
I've replaced quite a few.
Mostly candle-flame shaped ones.
Yeah, I know.

We call those suppository bulbs.

H&S WARNING: Don't.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: T42 on January 29, 2020, 08:22:43 am
On the metro home from work I looked up at the office blocks near the station, all lit up with noone at the desks, at 2100.

Cleaners.  But normally they should only work a couple of floors at a time.

Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 29, 2020, 09:00:02 am
And the problem of "one person working late has to keep half the block lit up because the switches are in the wrong places" has been noted for decades.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: ian on January 29, 2020, 09:15:53 am
Our mothership lights go off if there's no one moving. I think this is to high- (or rather low-)light people like me sleeping at their desks.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Greenbank on January 29, 2020, 09:24:29 am
Same here, no movement for 5 minutes (after 5pm) and the lights go off. Small individual areas too, probably covering no more than 6 desks. We've had that ever since I've been in this office (2006).
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Jurek on January 29, 2020, 10:22:52 am
One place I worked in briefly, had lights similarly controlled in the (windowless) gents toilet.
The sensor was in the part of the room where the hand basins were located.
Noticeably, there was an absence of sensor in any of the cubicles.
So, after you had been sitting there for not very long, you'd be plunged into inky darkness.
You could either wait until the next user entered the room for the lighting to be restored.
Or.........
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on January 29, 2020, 11:16:20 am
I have switched jobs to work for one of the leading energy research and analysis firms in the UK.  My view is that individual actions are pretty much pointless and that to get to zero carbon in time you need to convince governments, investors, banks, pension funds ect that it is possible and profitable.  Which is what I do now.  Pretty incredible being on the front line and speaking on a daily basis to all the major players in the game - genuinely feels like I am doing something that might help.

My current job is based around helping our clients understand the exact economics of a wind farm or potential location for a wind farm which will help the investment case for building more renewable s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNcwoRrQrl0&t=4s
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Kim on January 29, 2020, 01:17:26 pm
And the problem of "one person working late has to keep half the block lit up because the switches are in the wrong places" has been noted for decades.

Switches are going out of fashion.  The modern problem is not being able to turn lights off when you want to darken a room for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Kim on January 29, 2020, 01:18:35 pm
One place I worked in briefly, had lights similarly controlled in the (windowless) gents toilet.
The sensor was in the part of the room where the hand basins were located.
Noticeably, there was an absence of sensor in any of the cubicles.
So, after you had been sitting there for not very long, you'd be plunged into inky darkness.
You could either wait until the next user entered the room for the lighting to be restored.
Or.........

This is a favourite in C&CC club site wash blocks.  It's best to just leave your head torch switched on during 3am loo visits.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: Wowbagger on January 29, 2020, 01:38:34 pm
Our mothership lights go off if there's no one moving. I think this is to high- (or rather low-)light people like me sleeping at their desks.

The building I worked in up to 1995 had this even a quarter of a century ago. I quite often turned up at my desk about 10pm on an otherwise deserted 11th floor as our chess club used to meet on the 15th. It was quite fun to walk across the floor and a succession of light going on in front of me like a kind of bow wave.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: perpetual dan on January 29, 2020, 08:51:05 pm
Same here, no movement for 5 minutes (after 5pm) and the lights go off. Small individual areas too, probably covering no more than 6 desks. We've had that ever since I've been in this office (2006).

Here too. I’m normally in well after the lights have gone on in the morning. The Monday before Christmas I discovered that the movement detector doesn’t “see” my desk as none of the rest of the team were in.
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: spesh on January 29, 2020, 09:37:36 pm
ObligDilbert: https://dilbert.com/strip/1995-02-22
Title: Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
Post by: fd3 on February 01, 2020, 10:42:17 am
Tried to swap washing up liquid with a bar, to reduce the CO2 cost of shipping all the water about. 
The bar is greasy and doesn't work well (which is putting it politely) - it's the "Dish Washing Block" by "No Tox Life" - avoid.  Will try some other options though.