Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => The Knowledge => OT Knowledge => Topic started by: Russell on January 15, 2020, 06:56:12 pm

Title: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: Russell on January 15, 2020, 06:56:12 pm
On a short ride today that went over the ranges I was horrified to see a very large number of CO2 cartridges (soda stream, tyre inflator type) in the verges and on the carriageway over several miles.  There were also a large number of boxes that probably contained 12 cartridges scattered around as well.  The dozens (could have been in the hundreds TBH) of Stella cans, fast food wrappers, pop bottles etc I can understand (well I can't but you get my drift) but the CO2 cartridges - what is going on??

This is a road away from habitation with only outdoor pursuits, MTB, dog walking and so on, to attract people to the area.

Am I showing my sheltered upbringing again?
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: Kim on January 15, 2020, 06:59:03 pm
Are you sure they were CO2 cartridges?  Usually what you see are discarded nitrous oxide cartridges (whipped cream, for the molishment of), which the cool kids like to inhale via a balloon before lobbing out of the window of their hatchback.  They're a bit smaller than the CO2 ones used for tyre inflators, paintball guns and so on.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: ian on January 15, 2020, 07:00:45 pm
Indeed, it's nitrous oxide. The partying dentists strike again.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 15, 2020, 07:03:49 pm
What they said. A couple of years ago, riding through the centre of Bristol on a Sunday morning audax, I remarked to my companion how the changing fashion in intoxicants meant you were now less likely to puncture but more likely to faceplant.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: Hot Flatus on January 15, 2020, 07:15:26 pm
Indeed, it's nitrous oxide. The partying dentists strike again.

People camping next to me at Boomtown 2018, gettingvready for the party


(https://i.ibb.co/GpFQqyc/20180811-151104.jpg)
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: ian on January 15, 2020, 07:30:46 pm
Maybe they were a troupe of balloon animal artists getting warmed up for a competitive sausage dog heat.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: Peter on January 15, 2020, 07:47:44 pm
Sheltered life is indeed the correct answer.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: Hot Flatus on January 15, 2020, 08:00:43 pm
Maybe they were a troupe of balloon animal artists getting warmed up for a competitive sausage dog heat.

The balloons seemed stronger than their lungs...
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: IanN on January 15, 2020, 08:05:21 pm
Hence the theft of Entonox cylinders from hospital gas stores.
Morons
Enterprising morons, but morons nonetheless
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: ian on January 15, 2020, 08:06:39 pm
Maybe they were a troupe of balloon animal artists getting warmed up for a competitive sausage dog heat.

The balloons seemed stronger than their lungs...

There's sadly been a lot of allegations of doping on the competitive balloon animal scene.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: Kim on January 15, 2020, 08:08:01 pm
Hence the theft of Entonox cylinders from hospital gas stores.
Morons
Enterprising morons, but morons nonetheless

Not if the nurses nick it first...
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: grams on January 15, 2020, 08:08:59 pm
Matt silver and threaded = CO2
Chrome silver, no thread, usually a bit smaller = Nitrous
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: rogerzilla on January 15, 2020, 08:43:18 pm
It's sold as a whipped cream foaming agent.  CO2 makes the foam go rancid, or something.  It isn't especially harmful but some stupid kids manage to freeze-burn their windpipe by trying to take it straight from the canister, and the odd moron inhales so much that they asphyxiate themselves, the same risk as with helium balloons.

They'll probably ban it soon, just for the litter problem.  There was a handful of them in the front garden of the local convent recently.  Stoner nuns.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: ian on January 15, 2020, 09:19:05 pm
It's used because it's very soluble in fat and oils (like cream) and foams when depressured. You can't use carbon dioxide because it's acidic in solution and will curdle the cream. Anything with oxygen in it will reduce the shelf-life substantially, and you can't use butane etc. in foodstuffs.

I remember it from the dentists, they snorted you up on that stuff and took your teeth and then woke you, let you vomit for a bit and told you not to eat any more sweets. Worst. Tooth. Fairies. Ever. I remember it was a bit like being sealed into a 60s prog rock music video that you could only escape by vomiting tar and screaming.

I'm perhaps missing the popularity. I was persuaded to try a balloon at a party some years back and all it did was make my ears ring. I'm more troubled by the decapitated cans of deodorant I find on the path through the woods. Which means some kids are getting their kicks by snorting Lynx Africa.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: rogerzilla on January 15, 2020, 09:21:35 pm
It's lighter fuel canisters in the woods round work.  Not sure if it's feckless kids in the evening, or bored employees at lunchtime.  Same goes for the used condoms and empty cans of Red Stripe.  We're not City slickers on champagne and charlie, even if it's the same industry sector.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: Kim on January 15, 2020, 09:42:01 pm
It's used because it's very soluble in fat and oils (like cream)

Presumably this is also related to how it affects teh branez...


Quote
I'm perhaps missing the popularity. I was persuaded to try a balloon at a party some years back and all it did was make my ears ring.

My medical experiences of the stuff were akin to low-bitrate RealVideo™[1].  By the time it stops buffering and reality catches up with you, they've finished doing the painful thing where you need to not squirm.  Hopefully.

On one occasion (as part of a long and boring hospital stay) I ended up discussing it with one of the younger nurses, who was slacking off by tending to the less dull and relatively low-maintenance patients in side rooms.  She mentioned that they'd liberated a cylinder of entonox for a recent party, one thing lead to another, and she found herself sprawled over a giant bagpuss.  I reckoned that was probably an optimal outcome.


Quote
I'm more troubled by the decapitated cans of deodorant I find on the path through the woods. Which means some kids are getting their kicks by snorting Lynx Africa.

We can but hope *that's* the pyromaniacs...


[1] Teenagers, ask your parents.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: rogerzilla on January 15, 2020, 09:48:31 pm
Like every expectant father, I tried the Entonox as soon as the midwife left the room.  It did absolutely nothing,  I reckon they're just pumping outside air into the system to save costs, and hoping there's a placebo effect.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: Hot Flatus on January 15, 2020, 09:51:45 pm
Like every expectant father, I tried the Entonox as soon as the midwife left the room.  It did absolutely nothing,  I reckon they're just pumping outside air into the system to save costs, and hoping there's a placebo effect.

You didnt try hard enough.

Wifey and I got through a tank and a half.  We took our own music, ambient trance.

It was fucking brilliant.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 15, 2020, 09:53:08 pm
No happy gases for expectant fathers in Poland. Or mothers, more to the point.

Still with pregnancy, there's a place down the road sells 'cream supplies'. It's the same place that advertises 'gender reveal fireworks'. This really doesn't seem like a good combination.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: hellymedic on January 15, 2020, 09:53:16 pm
Having illicitly tripped on Entonox as a young doc, I did so quite happily when I had a colonoscopy a few years back, choosing this in preference to Stronger Drugs.

At least medical gases are properly colour-coded, so that N2O is BLUECO2 is GREY, and O2 is BLACK.

A street name for nitrous oxide is bluebottle.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: ian on January 15, 2020, 09:55:25 pm
Our student house featured two nurses. The stories I could tell. Honestly, it was the first time in my life I've had to ask an attractive woman to please put some clothes on.

I don't think to this day that anyone really knows how anaesthetics work, unless our resident knock-out monkey knows better.

Judging from the lack of burnt stuff, it seems the kidz are getting high on the Lynx effect. Or they're trying to conjure up a giant pungent cloud of lady-attractant. Which is stupid, any fool knows the only way to do that is Old Spice.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: Adam on January 15, 2020, 09:56:27 pm
Matt silver and threaded = CO2
Chrome silver, no thread, usually a bit smaller = Nitrous

There's loads of chrome CO2 unthreaded canisters available.

But yes, the nitrous ones are smaller.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: sojournermike on January 15, 2020, 11:50:47 pm
Like every expectant father, I tried the Entonox as soon as the midwife left the room.  It did absolutely nothing,  I reckon they're just pumping outside air into the system to save costs, and hoping there's a placebo effect.

You didnt try hard enough.

Wifey and I got through a tank and a half.  We took our own music, ambient trance.

It was fucking brilliant.

For you perhaps;)
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 16, 2020, 10:03:53 am
I didn't realise it was actually illegal.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/16/justice-secretary-hits-back-at-criticism-of-nitrous-oxide-ban
Presumably the defence is making a cake.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: ian on January 16, 2020, 10:11:55 am
I like the first paragraph of that story.

Where are we on the war on drugs anyway? Did we win?
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: jezzasnr on January 16, 2020, 10:44:27 am
I have volunteered on the Recyling Crew at Glastonbury for a few years.
Now I'd like to think of myself as reasonably aware of what's going on, but was astounded at the amount of these that we picked up. Thousands of the things.
Admittedly we were working down in Naughty Corner where all of the clubs are.
The other thing that struck me was that I only saw one person sucking a balloon over the weekend.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: Rowan on January 16, 2020, 11:08:08 am
On a short ride today that went over the ranges I was horrified to see a very large number of CO2 cartridges (soda stream, tyre inflator type) in the verges and on the carriageway over several miles.  There were also a large number of boxes that probably contained 12 cartridges scattered around as well.  The dozens (could have been in the hundreds TBH) of Stella cans, fast food wrappers, pop bottles etc I can understand (well I can't but you get my drift) but the CO2 cartridges - what is going on??

This is a road away from habitation with only outdoor pursuits, MTB, dog walking and so on, to attract people to the area.

Am I showing my sheltered upbringing again?
We're at that time of year when the vegetation in the hedgerows and verges are at their thinnest and its shocking to see the amount of junk that is deposited by motorists (and probably some cyclists) There does seem to be a 2-3 mile  out of town hot spot of fast food wrappers and drinks cans, presumably this is the distance to drive and consume at which point the window is wound down and the packaging jettisoned.  (anyone ever been tempted by a bit of pitsa in the hedge?  No, O'well must only be me, I'm a hungry soul)

It is always quite surprising and equally disturbing at the amount of car parts near tight bends - why can't they pick up all the snappy off plastic bits that they leave behind after they have been through the hedge.

Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: ian on January 16, 2020, 11:30:39 am
It's like the people who evidently munch through their KFC from our town centre and within ten metres of the only bin on the street throw the residue in a bush. I'm also surprised by the number of people who buy a coffee from Costa and instead of drinking it, carry it halfway home and then leave it, still undrunk, balanced on a wall. Fair amount of McDonalds stuff and we don't even have a McDonalds near by, I assume that's drivers chucking it out, though it's a bit odd because the nearest one is still miles away so surely they'd eat it somewhere closer. Maybe we should make fast food vendors liable for their own litter.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: Basil on January 16, 2020, 11:42:01 am
I know pretty accurately the length of time that it takes to eat a kebab.  It takes exactly the same time as it takes to walk from the kebab shop to the front of my house.  >:(
I always think it odd that litter bins are sited right by the door of chip shops and other fast food outlets.  How many people finish eating as they step out into the street?
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: ian on January 16, 2020, 12:18:21 pm
My understanding is that for local authorities to grant permission for such fast food entities they have to demonstrate a 'litter plan' and what you are seeing is this 'litter plan' in action. A bin outside.

They should have a wider responsibility for both the litter they cause and the endless parking problems (our local KFC is on the roundabout, so you can guess where people park and the results of that).

In other news, the local school is back, so I'm on litter duty again. Sigh. I'm not sure how we got to be a country that doesn't give a shit about stuff like this.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: Rowan on January 16, 2020, 12:44:29 pm
My understanding is that for local authorities to grant permission for such fast food entities they have to demonstrate a 'litter plan' and what you are seeing is this 'litter plan' in action. A bin outside.

They should have a wider responsibility for both the litter they cause and the endless parking problems (our local KFC is on the roundabout, so you can guess where people park and the results of that).

In other news, the local school is back, so I'm on litter duty again. Sigh. I'm not sure how we got to be a country that doesn't give a shit about stuff like this.
On a positive note, me and the wife have been picking plastic junk up off our favourite beach for decades,   and since the wonderful 'blue planet' series of a couple of years ago when the realities of plastics in our seas was brought into our living rooms.  Visible plastics has largely disappeared from our beach, I guess many other people are now clearing it away. or may be not leaving it in the first place.    (carrier bag laws have helped enormously too)

a small place in hell needs to be created for the dog walkers who bag it then leave the plastic turd containing bag on the beach.  I would rather they just didn't pick up, the tide and elements would see it gone sharpish, but left in its plastic back they are preserving it for years / centuries. what is wrong with their mindset.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: ian on January 16, 2020, 01:10:33 pm
It's the local school that bugs me. They're just not bothered. Send the same copy-and-paste response if you grink them (apparently the pupils did a 'litter pick' on the Queen's birthday and they'd sorry that a 'small minority of pupils' continue to make a mess – it's not a small minority). The back entrance the school literally looks like a rubbish tip.

Given all the current awareness of plastic pollution etc, some of which might have hoped to seep into the younger generation, it's evident that really that they don't care, which makes more than a little pessimistic for our future. I guess they'll turn into their parents.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: Kim on January 16, 2020, 01:56:42 pm
carrier bag laws have helped enormously too

They've certainly improved matters in my local hedgerows.  These days, plastic bags are mostly a shared path dog-emptier thing, with (fly-tipping excepted) the motorists discarding their rubbish in its unwrapped state.

The verges are still full of litter, but at least it's unlikely to blow into my derailleur.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 16, 2020, 02:10:20 pm
I think we've always been a country that doesn't give a shit about litter. Well, since the 1970s at least. In some respects we're quite a bit better than back then. Not just plastic bag laws, dog shit laws have helped too. Yes, there did use to be even more of it.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: ian on January 16, 2020, 02:29:30 pm
I think part of the problem is an assumption that the council will pick it up. And now they don't. I see people all the time step over litter on the pavement outside their houses rather than pick it up and drop it in their bin (which is usually within a metre or two).
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: Russell on January 16, 2020, 03:36:08 pm
It's possible the ones I saw may be deposited by army types as there are a number of barracks in the area and you could use these roads to get to two nearby towns that have nightlife.

The state of the verges in general (there's a dual carriageway near us in particular) makes me despair sometimes.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: Adam on January 16, 2020, 06:17:38 pm
It's the local school that bugs me. They're just not bothered. Send the same copy-and-paste response if you grink them (apparently the pupils did a 'litter pick' on the Queen's birthday and they'd sorry that a 'small minority of pupils' continue to make a mess – it's not a small minority). The back entrance the school literally looks like a rubbish tip.

Given all the current awareness of plastic pollution etc, some of which might have hoped to seep into the younger generation, it's evident that really that they don't care, which makes more than a little pessimistic for our future. I guess they'll turn into their parents.

Generally, it's the example of the adults at home that are the problem, but schools definitely could do more. 

I've done loads of Dr Bike sessions in a variety of primary & secondary schools, and I was always amazed at certain schools where at lunchtimes the canteen and playgrounds were like a war zone, with the children creating so much mess, contrasting with other schools which had a zero tolerance for litter, meaning every student cleared up after themselves, and there was virtually no litter anywhere.  So if some schools can ensure children pick up litter, why don't the rest?
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: hellymedic on January 16, 2020, 06:51:09 pm
I tink the habit of binning rubbish s best picked up around the age of three and regularly reinforced thereafter.

Little S's excursion from the car to the bin in the carpark was one of the first he'd done without anyone holding his hand.

He was happy and proud to put the rubbith indybin and grew to do this without thnking.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: Hot Flatus on January 16, 2020, 06:51:32 pm
Some schools are frightened of parents.

One of the consequences of giving power to 'parents' voice' is that it isnt the reasonable parents who have the loudest voices. But fear not, zero tolerance will sweep through the country's schools, and shit parents have to comply or do one.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: ian on January 16, 2020, 07:02:37 pm
I sense it comes down to school leadership. I wouldn't mind so much if the head of our local secondary tried to engage, but on the one occasion I spoke to him in person, honestly, a perfect blend of pompous and patronizing. And as his name is Jeremy, I just had the entire Peep Show thing in my head which made concentrating hard. It's not like he's the head of Hogwarts, it's fucking state secondary school. It's not just me. Our neighbour, a quite posh widow once stomped up there to complain about something. Her description: "what a twat he was." He's the same one who, for one day only, supervised the kids departing school and wrote back to me to say 'he'd witnessed no examples of bad behaviour.' You were fucking well standing next to them.

I found a pile of torn-up 'learning records' this afternoon. Apparently, the 'loss or deliberate damage of which be treated very seriously.' I doubt it. Names and everything (advice for parents-to-be, if you call your kid Jack, he's probably going to be a criminal, OK?).

I keep forgetting my phone to take a picture of the big tip by the gate, my wife is going to nag to the local council for what that's worth. I'm more minded to bag it up and dump it in their reception.
Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: Hot Flatus on January 16, 2020, 07:32:16 pm
It is the leadership, but its complicated.

The various drivers put in place by successive governments include sanctions and penalties for exclusions, the result of which has ultimately been  the erosion of discipline and the responsibility for behaviour being pushed down onto individual teachers rather than being a whole school issue or...heaven forfend... the responsibility of the children or their parents.  I've some sympathy with these schools as I have seen them being beaten down, down and down. Everybody loses. Everybody.

There is a growing movement of academy chains turning around schools with 'ready to learn' behaviour policies which are incredibly draconian. You'll know if your local school has gone down this path because your local paper will be full of stories of kids being put into isolation for not having a protractor, and if you care to peek into the school reception during the first week of the turn around you'll find it full of mothers in terry tracksuits shouting at the senior management.  The key is that the management are willing to ignore the clickbait local headlines and face down the vociferous parents.

In the context of this thread, when forgetting your pencil sharpener nets you an after-school detention, the prospect of being caught littering seems like a probable death sentence.

Title: Re: CO2 Cartridges as rubbish
Post by: ian on January 16, 2020, 08:17:09 pm
I'd sign up for death sentences. But I'd settle for the kids (and their parents) getting a periodic bollocking to remind them that it is their responsibility rather than a 'meh.'

I'll admit it was a bit bizarre when we had the incident with the bollard (kids rolled a 25kg lump of concrete down a 25% hill) and rather than opt for the above he was obsessed with identifying the individual responsible and reporting them to the police. I really again just wanted them to get a bollocking, not a prison sentence (not that the police did anything, and no, I don't spend my afternoons memorizing school children).