Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Freewheeling => Racing => Topic started by: S2L on February 13, 2020, 11:33:44 am

Title: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: S2L on February 13, 2020, 11:33:44 am
I've decided to do a bit of hill climbing in the autumn. I generally get bored of doing Audax after June/July and need to refocus on something else... something different and nothing seems more different to Audax than a Hill Climb

I've signed up for the local Solihull CC Saintbury + Dovers in September, looking at my PB on both against past results would put me just outside a "bottom up" podium, so there is work to do... and I am mulling over whether to sign up for the Wrexham organised one up the Horseshoe pass, just because...

Anyone else interested in hill climbing at all?
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: Peat on February 13, 2020, 01:21:49 pm
Yes, I find it a refreshing antidote to a spring/summer of Audax. Totally different. I didn't do any last season due to injury and really missed it.

There's nothing quite like turning yourself inside out in 2 minutes.
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: DuncanM on February 13, 2020, 01:29:34 pm
I tried it (I think there was some discussion on the TT thread), but it clashes with CX, and I prefer that sort of masochism! ;)
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: S2L on February 13, 2020, 01:30:55 pm
Yes, I find it a refreshing antidote to a spring/summer of Audax. Totally different. I didn't do any last season due to injury and really missed it.

There's nothing quite like turning yourself inside out in 2 minutes.

I'm hoping to do Dovers in under 6 minutes and Saintbury in under 9 on the day, they are on the long side in HC currency... I think the records stand at under 4 min for Dovers and Under 6 for Saintbury.

Horseshoe is anyone's guess... I think the record is under 9 minutes, so maybe I can do it in 13-14...
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: HeltorChasca on February 13, 2020, 02:43:53 pm
One of my weaknesses is climbing so I decided to tackle my issues head on. I have gone for my first AAARtY (which is pending final verification) and a couple of years ago I signed up to do the Col de Hinton run by Bath CC near Wellow. At the time I only belonged to Audax Club Bristol which wasn’t signed up by the Time Trial body. So because of paperwork anomalies I wasn’t allowed to enter. Now ACB are and I should be ok as well as also belonging to a local road club. (Somer Valley CC)

Knowing I wasn’t going to be any good or beat much of the competition,  I had entered myself on my cargo bike in the ‘inappropriate’ category. Hopefully I’ll give it a shot this year if Dave Atkinson can bare the embarrassment.
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: Phil W on February 13, 2020, 06:49:41 pm
How steep are the hills typically or is there no typical?
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: HeltorChasca on February 13, 2020, 07:41:06 pm
https://veloviewer.com/segment/721152/Hinton+Hill+Climb

https://veloviewer.com/segment/782830

These are two I have watched events on. We’ve all done stuff like this but you should see how fast these climbers do them Scary. Over 7 watts/kg needed to claim the kom on Hinton Hill. And over 4 watts/kg to claim the qom!
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: Phil W on February 13, 2020, 07:53:49 pm
https://veloviewer.com/segment/721152/Hinton+Hill+Climb

https://veloviewer.com/segment/782830

These are two I have watched events on. We’ve all done stuff like this but you should see how fast these climbers do them Scary. Over 7 watts/kg needed to claim the kom on Hinton Hill. And over 4 watts/kg to claim the qom!

Where did you fall on this spectrum on the cargo bike?
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: S2L on February 13, 2020, 08:37:30 pm
How steep are the hills typically or is there no typical?

No typical...

Winnats pass is probably as steep as they get and Long Hill from Buxton probably as shallow as they get.
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: Karla on February 13, 2020, 09:48:18 pm
How steep are the hills typically or is there no typical?

To get a feeling for the sport and terrain, Paul Jones's book about it  (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Corinthian-Endeavour-Story-National-Championship/dp/1874739765) is a very good read. 

(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/e036e2c9-fcca-497b-9d27-8e7bf8022a80_1.9c0e571ace675600cd55c372d49fc853.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=ffffff)
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: pdm on February 13, 2020, 10:55:43 pm
How steep are the hills typically or is there no typical?

No typical...

Winnats pass is probably as steep as they get and Long Hill from Buxton probably as shallow as they get.

Riber hill up from Matlock is steeper than Winnats... 25% vs 20%. Winnats is a tad longer, though.

32.   Riber               Matlock   162m   Avg: 9%   1.8 km   Max: 25%
33.   Winnats Pass   Derbys.   198m       12%   1.7 km   20%
34.   Rowsley Bar   Derbys.   140m         13%   1.1 km   25%

See: https://cyclinguphill.com/100-climbs/

(I've never raced them but I have ridden all those used for racing in the Derbyshire Peaks!)
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: S2L on February 14, 2020, 07:40:21 am
How steep are the hills typically or is there no typical?

To get a feeling for the sport and terrain, Paul Jones's book about it  (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Corinthian-Endeavour-Story-National-Championship/dp/1874739765) is a very good read. 

(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/e036e2c9-fcca-497b-9d27-8e7bf8022a80_1.9c0e571ace675600cd55c372d49fc853.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=ffffff)

Second that, very good indeed
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: HeltorChasca on February 14, 2020, 09:03:07 am
https://veloviewer.com/segment/721152/Hinton+Hill+Climb

https://veloviewer.com/segment/782830

These are two I have watched events on. We’ve all done stuff like this but you should see how fast these climbers do them Scary. Over 7 watts/kg needed to claim the kom on Hinton Hill. And over 4 watts/kg to claim the qom!

Where did you fall on this spectrum on the cargo bike?

 ;D I suspect if I take up the challenge this year I won’t be measuring in Watts/kg. More likely in the number of days it’ll take me to get to the top.
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: rob on February 15, 2020, 03:14:23 pm
My clubs event here :-

http://www.catfordcc.co.uk/events/hill_climb.aspx

Oldest bike race in the UK.  Short and very steep.


Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on February 15, 2020, 03:33:33 pm
Oldest cycling event in the world still being held, I thought. The Catford hill climb is older than PBP and held much more frequently.
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: S2L on February 15, 2020, 03:37:00 pm
My clubs event here :-

http://www.catfordcc.co.uk/events/hill_climb.aspx

Oldest bike race in the UK.  Short and very steep.

I'd love to do that one... only problem it's a 5 hour round trip by car to ride 4 minutes
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: rob on February 15, 2020, 04:21:16 pm
Oldest cycling event in the world still being held, I thought. The Catford hill climb is older than PBP and held much more frequently.

Good point.  I’m a little off message.
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: rob on February 15, 2020, 04:22:42 pm
My clubs event here :-

http://www.catfordcc.co.uk/events/hill_climb.aspx

Oldest bike race in the UK.  Short and very steep.

I'd love to do that one... only problem it's a 5 hour round trip by car to ride 4 minutes

There’s usually a double with the Bec event just down the road in the afternoon.   Also there’s a station pretty close.
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: S2L on February 15, 2020, 05:05:14 pm


There’s usually a double with the Bec event just down the road in the afternoon.   Also there’s a station pretty close.

It's not the environmental concern... it's just the idea of travelling the other side of the country to climb a small hill and probably finish in the bottom third.
Anyway, off topic... maybe one day if I can pair it with something else to do on the same weekend
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: mattc on February 15, 2020, 06:13:24 pm
Do you normally finish in the top 3rd of races? What sort?

[I have no idea of your abilities - just curious ... ]
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: S2L on February 15, 2020, 08:28:41 pm
Do you normally finish in the top 3rd of races? What sort?

[I have no idea of your abilities - just curious ... ]

Haven't done a competitive hill climb yet, but I can anticipate I won't, but if I did I'd probably be keener to travel further to race  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: Peter on February 16, 2020, 12:36:02 am
The Rake at Ramsbottom has been mentioned.  It's only a little over half a mile, averages 1 in 11 and has a maximum gradient of between 1 in 4 and 1 in 5.  When the Tour of Britain went up it last summer I heard that a Russian was off the front and he flew up - in the saddle.  The record (by a local, because no-one wants to travel up here just to be humiliated) is about 2.15.  I did it in about 3 in my mid sixties - but that was descending........ .

I did once beat the illustrious T of Britain winner Bill Bradley up Ripponden Bank but I was about 15 years younger than him!
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: S2L on February 16, 2020, 07:02:02 am
I heard that a Russian was off the front and he flew up - in the saddle. 

These days we have gears to do that. I did Hardknott and Wrynose in the saddle and always do Bushcombe lane in the saddle... gives you more control and better balance over rocking left and right on the pedals... it also prevents the rear wheel from slipping
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: Peter on February 16, 2020, 12:58:55 pm
The point being that ALMOST NOBODY can do the Rake (or the Hardknott- Wrynose route) in the saddle - even with the dinnerplates available today.  I envy you your prowess!  (And probably your age....?)
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: S2L on February 16, 2020, 01:22:08 pm
The point being that ALMOST NOBODY can do the Rake (or the Hardknott- Wrynose route) in the saddle - even with the dinnerplates available today.  I envy you your prowess!  (And probably your age....?)

I did Hardknott on 36 x 36 and Wrynose I think it was 36 x 34... I don't think it's harder by being in the saddle, in fact it is easier to keep balance, provided you can keep turning the pedals (slowly) and place enough weight on the bars to avoid the front wheel taking off. If you stand up, the rear wheel will lose traction, unless the tarmac is perfectly dry.

Last weekend (before Ciara) I did a ride with 7 steep climbs, I couldn't stand up on any of them, as the surface was so slimy...
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: Peter on February 16, 2020, 02:05:53 pm
Ah, it becomes clearer!  I could have done that ok, possibly even sitting down, with a 36 cog - but not with a 36 chainwheel.  Good going!
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: S2L on February 20, 2020, 01:26:53 pm
Not a plan for 2020 yet, but how do you qualify for the National HC championship? It all seems rather vague.
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: Karla on February 20, 2020, 01:56:38 pm
Entry is based on placings in CTT hillclimbs.  Quite how high you need to place will depend on the strength of the rest of the field.  Given that the event has been doing well over the past few years and this year is near London, entry is bound to be competitive.

(Don't put it off until next year though: if the rumours are true, it will be even more competitive in 2021.)
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: S2L on February 20, 2020, 02:24:52 pm
(Don't put it off until next year though: if the rumours are true, it will be even more competitive in 2021.)

... but by 2021 I might have more results to show... Streatley is not my kind of climb... too short, favours those who can churn out 500 Watts (or more, at the competitive end of the field) for a couple of minutes, I can't... if I look at where I stand in the pecking order on Strava segments, I tend to do better on longer climbs.


Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: Giropaul on February 20, 2020, 03:23:51 pm
Entry is based on placings in CTT hillclimbs.  Quite how high you need to place will depend on the strength of the rest of the field.  Given that the event has been doing well over the past few years and this year is near London, entry is bound to be competitive.


Usually it’s the current season’s results ( in CTT hillclimb events) that most influence the field selectors, together with who has beaten who generally. That’s why the hill climb aficionados spend weekends before the entries to the National close zig-zagging their way to 2 or more events every weekend across the country.
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: Karla on February 20, 2020, 03:25:25 pm
You'll be waiting a while if you want a long one.  This year was long, and they tend to throw in one of those roughly every five years (https://cyclinguphill.com/uk-national-hill-climb.html).
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: S2L on February 20, 2020, 04:02:13 pm
You'll be waiting a while if you want a long one.  This year was long, and they tend to throw in one of those roughly every five years (https://cyclinguphill.com/uk-national-hill-climb.html).

Doesn't have to be as long as Haytor... let's say that 80-90 meters of ascent are just too short for me.  120-150 more my cup of tea, where pacing matters more than raw power.
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: S2L on February 20, 2020, 04:04:50 pm
Entry is based on placings in CTT hillclimbs.  Quite how high you need to place will depend on the strength of the rest of the field.  Given that the event has been doing well over the past few years and this year is near London, entry is bound to be competitive.


Usually it’s the current season’s results ( in CTT hillclimb events) that most influence the field selectors, together with who has beaten who generally. That’s why the hill climb aficionados spend weekends before the entries to the National close zig-zagging their way to 2 or more events every weekend across the country.

Good to know... I'll do a couple this year and see if I get the bug... if I do, then I'll take it more seriously in 2021. To be fair, the older I get, the better the chances of doing well in the age group.  ;D In 12 years time, all being well, I might even be able to compete for an age group medal, looking at the times
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: zigzag on February 20, 2020, 05:06:03 pm
You'll be waiting a while if you want a long one.  This year was long, and they tend to throw in one of those roughly every five years (https://cyclinguphill.com/uk-national-hill-climb.html).

Doesn't have to be as long as Haytor... let's say that 80-90 meters of ascent are just too short for me.  120-150 more my cup of tea, where pacing matters more than raw power.

what matters is that you give it your best effort. as for placing 53rd vs 46th - no one really cares; so the length of the climb is mostly irrelevant ;)
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: S2L on February 20, 2020, 05:34:47 pm


what matters is that you give it your best effort. as for placing 53rd vs 46th - no one really cares; so the length of the climb is mostly irrelevant ;)

That's very De Coubertin, but actually I do care and I'd rather kick some butt, rather than being kicked, at least in my age group...  ;D
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: drossall on February 20, 2020, 08:39:03 pm
Do you normally finish in the top 3rd of races? What sort?
I've only done a few hill climbs. I usually finished in the top third of the course, if that's any help.
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: rob on February 20, 2020, 08:59:03 pm
I only ever did one and I was a teenager.   Lincolnshire champs at Nettleton - very short.

Top end power is really not my thing.
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: IanDG on February 20, 2020, 11:03:55 pm
Do you normally finish in the top 3rd of races? What sort?
I've only done a few hill climbs. I usually finished in the top third of the course, if that's any help.

I've only done a few too. Won 3 (club/inter-club) events when I was a real racer and I'm Over 50 HC champ in my current club. I also used to do well on timed climbs in hilly/mountain TT's back in the day.
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: S2L on February 21, 2020, 03:08:59 pm
Quite fancy the HC up Great Dun Fell on September 12... bit of a trek to head to Penrith from the Midlands, but if paired with a weekend in the Lakes, it could be worth it...
I guess it's not the kind of course you get many chances to test in the morning before the race...  ;D

https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/race-details/19661
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: drossall on February 21, 2020, 08:11:24 pm
Won 3 (club/inter-club) events when I was a real racer and I'm Over 50 HC champ in my current club. I also used to do well on timed climbs in hilly/mountain TT's back in the day.
I tended to be nearer last. It's possible that you missed the point of what I said ;D
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: IanDG on February 21, 2020, 08:35:03 pm
Won 3 (club/inter-club) events when I was a real racer and I'm Over 50 HC champ in my current club. I also used to do well on timed climbs in hilly/mountain TT's back in the day.
I tended to be nearer last. It's possible that you missed the point of what I said ;D


I did 😁
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: S2L on February 23, 2020, 12:36:47 pm
If one, say, was to enter the National but fail to qualify, would the entry fee be refunded?
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: Karla on February 23, 2020, 01:13:29 pm
I realise it's £28 but given that you don't have to enter until October 6th, this is a bit premature isn't it?
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: S2L on February 23, 2020, 01:17:12 pm
I realise it's £28 but given that you don't have to enter until October 6th, this is a bit premature isn't it?

Yes, but without a clue of what is needed to qualify, one might be in the same position on October 6th
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: Giropaul on February 23, 2020, 08:50:12 pm
If one, say, was to enter the National but fail to qualify, would the entry fee be refunded?

Yes.
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: S2L on February 24, 2020, 08:54:21 am
If one, say, was to enter the National but fail to qualify, would the entry fee be refunded?

Yes.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: Peat on February 24, 2020, 08:59:07 am
This years' National course:
https://veloviewer.com/segments/729782

Short and sharp.
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: S2L on February 24, 2020, 09:46:32 am
This years' National course:
https://veloviewer.com/segments/729782

Short and sharp.

 :sick:

On the plus side, probably a nice tunnel effect with lots of spectators... if they close the road
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: Morbihan on February 24, 2020, 12:14:42 pm
We have mere pimples out here on the Island. Nothing over 70 meters so hitting the big hills when abroad is always a daunting reality check.
The local road racing scene is still largely won and lost on the small ramps though as they break up the races. Basically all the fast young kids break off the front and fly up them while the rest of us oldsters spend the remainder of the race in a futile effort to reel them back in.
There is a three day event each spring that starts with a small hill climb test. Its only 23 m and 0.54km as it flattens out at the top. The KOM was set by a young local guy on the event at 44.3 kph which is about what most of us would get going the other way. He is a sprinter really so had enough power to accelerate and charge over the top. He went over to Belgium for a year or two on a development team and I noticed he snagged the KOM up the Paterburg.  He won a couple of sprint races back then and dominated the road race scene here but anything with climbing wasn't his forte.
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: S2L on April 20, 2020, 11:56:10 am
I am still working on the assumption there will be a Hill Climb season in autumn.

I enquired about the National and apparently there are 480 entries up for grabs, so it might be possible to get an entry this year.

In terms of training, I have lost nearly 4 kg during the lockdown and on average I churn out an extra 20-25 watt over 90 minutes. Did PB on both the meaningful two climbs (> 2 minute climbs)  I can reach from home these days... one of them particularly encouraging, as there was a stiff headwind!
A few interesting numbers to work on... 4.9 W/kg for 3 minutes and 8 W/kg for 20 seconds...
If I was able to do 4-5 minutes at > 5 W/kg by September, it would be a good thing
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: Giropaul on April 22, 2020, 07:35:17 pm


what matters is that you give it your best effort. as for placing 53rd vs 46th - no one really cares; so the length of the climb is mostly irrelevant ;)

That's very De Coubertin, but actually I do care and I'd rather kick some butt, rather than being kicked, at least in my age group...  ;D

As far as I’m aware there are ( except youngsters) only two groups, Senior and Vet (40+) in the Nationals
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: S2L on April 23, 2020, 06:27:54 am


what matters is that you give it your best effort. as for placing 53rd vs 46th - no one really cares; so the length of the climb is mostly irrelevant ;)

That's very De Coubertin, but actually I do care and I'd rather kick some butt, rather than being kicked, at least in my age group...  ;D

As far as I’m aware there are ( except youngsters) only two groups, Senior and Vet (40+) in the Nationals

Medals are awarded by age group 40-44. 45-49, 50-54 and so on... must be a relatively new thing, but it's clear on the CTT website and confirmed by the organiser...

Not that I have medal ambitions...
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: Giropaul on April 23, 2020, 09:12:43 am


what matters is that you give it your best effort. as for placing 53rd vs 46th - no one really cares; so the length of the climb is mostly irrelevant ;)

That's very De Coubertin, but actually I do care and I'd rather kick some butt, rather than being kicked, at least in my age group...  ;D

As far as I’m aware there are ( except youngsters) only two groups, Senior and Vet (40+) in the Nationals

Medals are awarded by age group 40-44. 45-49, 50-54 and so on... must be a relatively new thing, but it's clear on the CTT website and confirmed by the organiser...

Not that I have medal ambitions...

I stand corrected. I think it must be fairly new.
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: S2L on April 23, 2020, 09:16:52 am
It's a nice touch, otherwise once you are past your best years, you are just there to make up the numbers, which is a bit sad and demotivating...
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: Giropaul on August 03, 2020, 09:03:42 pm
I’ve discovered that the age related part was being organised by BMCR ( British Masters Cycle Racing), - ex LVRC, in collaboration with CTT
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on September 17, 2020, 08:54:42 pm
I rode my local club hill climb (Holybourne) at the weekend.  There were two of us in the V50+ category, one posted 4:47:5, the other posted 4:47:0.  I will console myself that I climbed Holybourne in under 5 minutes.  Some bloke called Feather won it in 3:21.
Title: Re: The Hill Climb thread
Post by: Geriatricdolan on September 18, 2020, 06:38:18 am
I rode my local club hill climb (Holybourne) at the weekend.  There were two of us in the V50+ category, one posted 4:47:5, the other posted 4:47:0.  I will console myself that I climbed Holybourne in under 5 minutes.  Some bloke called Feather won it in 3:21.

Well done, it's a pretty good time!
Andrew Feather won the National in 2018 and IMO is hot favourite to win this year too, given the course. I am racing "against him" tomorrow in a double header in the Cotswolds.
Not that anyone will ever notice I was "racing him"...  ;D

In which other sport you can pay a tenner to race with the best of the best?  :)