Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Freewheeling => Racing => Topic started by: Morbihan on February 15, 2020, 03:21:49 pm

Title: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Morbihan on February 15, 2020, 03:21:49 pm
Started this morning.
https://amr2020.maprogress.com
Quite the field. Lots of top racers.

An interesting array of bike set ups
https://bikepacking.com/bikes/2020-atlas-mountain-race-rigs/
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: mattc on February 15, 2020, 04:49:04 pm


An interesting array of bike set ups
https://bikepacking.com/bikes/2020-atlas-mountain-race-rigs/
Average number of chainrings: Only slightly above 1.


I love the filter on this pic:
https://bikepacking.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Bill-Caldwell-Atlas-Mountain-Race-Rig-1.jpg
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: psyclist on February 15, 2020, 05:43:04 pm
Not a singlespeed in sight, at least from those who submitted their rig photos.

I'm not surprised 1x is proving more popular than 2x, seems to be the way things have moved in the recent past.

I've not found anywhere with commentary on the race so far. Be interesting to know how Christian Meier built his early lead. I'm also looking forward to seeing how Sofiane's strategy pans out on this race. Will he repeat what he did on Tour Divide and not sleep for the first 3 nights. James Hayden usually has a good whole race strategy, so I'm expecting he'll move up the order in time.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: rob on February 15, 2020, 05:55:27 pm
Couple of people moving over from TT - Nick Clarke and Chris Hall.

Also Liam Yates, son of Sean.   Decent road racer trying a different discipline.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: psyclist on February 16, 2020, 08:32:49 am
Very interesting at the front of the pack. Neck and neck between Christian Meier and Sofiane.

Although the mapview sometimes makes it look like there are big gaps between riders, after the first few riders the gaps between riders coming into CP1 was very small. Must be quite a sight to see the steady stream of riders on the road/track.

Nick Clarke followed James Hayden into CP1.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Morbihan on February 16, 2020, 12:40:51 pm
Really pleased to see Piko making good headway. He had a horrible off last year during TCR breaking his leg while in 5th place.  He can ride long on minimal sleep and is well placed to reel in any flagging riders. Im pretty sure he is racing TCR again in the Summer.

I can't recall any ex pros doing an ultra. Is Cristian Meyer the first?
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: bludger on February 16, 2020, 12:43:22 pm
James Hayden usually has a good whole race strategy, so I'm expecting he'll move up the order in time.
I saw a funny Instagram story of his from the start - he wasn't thrilled at the peloton-ing mob at the start....
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: FifeingEejit on February 16, 2020, 01:09:46 pm
How big is that cassette? (And how heavy!) (50t apparently)

(https://bikepacking.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Nico-Deportago-Cabrera-Atlas-Mountain-Race-Rig-1-960x640.jpg)


Still think it's a solution looking for a problem, but then I've destroyed more rear mechs than front...
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: bludger on February 16, 2020, 01:20:47 pm
Bear in mind there are savings made by not having a front derailleur and just one chainring though.

Wonder what they're using the left brifter for...
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Davef on February 16, 2020, 02:43:25 pm
I was wondering about contrast of the deep section aero wheels and the flagon attached to the front fork.


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Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: mattc on February 16, 2020, 02:45:32 pm
Left DT shifter - if it's good enough for Lance ...
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on February 16, 2020, 02:49:51 pm
Wonder what they're using the left brifter for...

It looks like eTap, so each lever moves the rear mech one-way.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: psyclist on February 16, 2020, 08:32:45 pm
Christian had some sleep last night whilst Sofiane rode through the night, then rapidly caught him earlier today. They've been in close proximity through the day. I wonder how things will pan out tonight. They are on a plateau at a height of some 1500m.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Ivan on February 16, 2020, 08:39:08 pm
Not a singlespeed in sight, at least from those who submitted their rig photos.

Markus Stitz is on singlespeed: https://twitter.com/reizkultur/status/1228578479492472837
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: quixoticgeek on February 16, 2020, 09:42:37 pm
Not a singlespeed in sight, at least from those who submitted their rig photos.

Markus Stitz is on singlespeed: https://twitter.com/reizkultur/status/1228578479492472837

Is it fixed as well?

Seriously impressive either way.

J
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Morbihan on February 16, 2020, 11:37:19 pm
Christian had some sleep last night whilst Sofiane rode through the night, then rapidly caught him earlier today. They've been in close proximity through the day. I wonder how things will pan out tonight. They are on a plateau at a height of some 1500m.

A real case of the hare and the tortoise. Sofiane has ridden for 6 hours longer than Christian as of now. In fact he didn't stop yesterday at all, Jeepers. He is no slouch either, riding at 13.5 kph, about the same speed as James H.
Christian is riding 1.5 kph faster though. He has a very aggressive set up with ceramic accoutrement etc. I guess that gives you an edge even on goat tracks over rubble. Or maybe its the ex pro racer legs that can just turn the pedals faster on any surface.
On a longer ultra one would likely speculate that Christian would reel Sofiane in, but in ultra terms this one aint that long. So hmmmmm.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: psyclist on February 17, 2020, 05:10:29 am
On a longer ultra one would likely speculate that Christian would reel Sofiane in, but in ultra terms this one aint that long. So hmmmmm.

I would have said the opposite, with Sofiane having the edge on a longer ultra. Yes he’d need to start sleeping a bit, but his experience over the long haul would help.

All a bit moot, unfortunately. Christian was slowed by punctures yesterday, which might explain why he caught Sofiane early on then they were matched on pace through most of yesterday. But Christian has stopped overnight and is way behind, suffering saddle sores and the start of shermer’s neck.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Ham on February 17, 2020, 07:57:17 am

Average number of chainrings: Only slightly above 1.

Average number of Brooks saddles: only slightly below 1
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: grams on February 17, 2020, 08:12:53 am
I really want to turn up to one of these things with panniers. The junk strapped to forks is heading that way.

It’s not obvious how a lot of them are carrying sufficient water. Are they using Camelbaks or something?

(I like the CrankTank4 thing)
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Frank9755 on February 17, 2020, 08:39:58 am
I don't know about these guys but you don't always need to carry as much water as you sometimes do.  So a common technique is to use a rucksack with extra bottles on the odd time you need it. 
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Peat on February 17, 2020, 08:51:54 am

It’s not obvious how a lot of them are carrying sufficient water. Are they using Camelbaks or something?


Frame-bag bladder i suspect.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Peat on February 17, 2020, 08:55:55 am
How big is that cassette? (And how heavy!) (50t apparently)


I had a go on a mates 1x gravel bike, having all the weight on the back axle was noticable, in distribution terms - akin to riding with a rear pannier. Made the front feel light and washy, but I was only bollocking around in a car park, so never got near a trail.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Davef on February 17, 2020, 09:00:01 am
I don't know about these guys but you don't always need to carry as much water as you sometimes do.  So a common technique is to use a rucksack with extra bottles on the odd time you need it.
Particularly where drinking water comes in a bottle rather than from a tap, an empty rucksack or some straps would seem like the way to go for extra capacity.


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Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Morbihan on February 17, 2020, 11:47:01 am
How big is that cassette? (And how heavy!) (50t apparently)


I had a go on a mates 1x gravel bike, having all the weight on the back axle was noticable, in distribution terms - akin to riding with a rear pannier. Made the front feel light and washy, but I was only bollocking around in a car park, so never got near a trail.

I think the object is to distribute the weight across the bike with various frame bags and not put the heavy gear in the underset pack.
Having said that I just had a new bike built ostensibly for touring in my "golden years" but that can also be used for ultra racing while I still have the ability. To that end I specced a fork with bosses and intend to run a rando bag for most of the supplies on TCR this year. Cleaner and just less clunky than feedbags etc strapped all over the bars.  Im also debating putting a couple of bottle cages on the forks. I can't get away to pick up the bike for a few weeks but will play around with the weight distribution if the balance feels off.
 Related, Im curios if there is much of an aero penalty with small fork mounted cages on a bike thats chugging along at 25kph for most of the journey.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: quixoticgeek on February 17, 2020, 12:03:22 pm

Once again, a race is reminding us, in order to finish 1st, 1st you have to finish.

Looks like the fight for 2nd is interesting...

J
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: psyclist on February 17, 2020, 12:38:09 pm
Last year, James H and Sofiane finished in joint first on Italy Divide. Sofiane appears to be significantly stronger now, or is it the terrain and conditions suiting his style / setup better?

James and Jay do indeed appear to be in a battle royale.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Davef on February 17, 2020, 12:51:46 pm
Related, Im curios if there is much of an aero penalty with small fork mounted cages on a bike thats chugging along at 25kph for most of the journey.
I like to justify my aero components by pointing out the watts saved at any instant maybe lower but I am out there for far more hours at my pace.



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Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Frank9755 on February 17, 2020, 01:32:57 pm
Im curios if there is much of an aero penalty with small fork mounted cages on a bike thats chugging along at 25kph for most of the journey.

There is, for two reasons:
Firstly, bikes rarely chug along at a steady pace.  Nornally you go a good bit slower up hills and faster down them - and then you have disproproportionately more drag. 
Secondly, it's not your speed relative to the ground that dictates drag, but relative to the air.  If you go at 5 mph into a 20mph wind, then aerodynamics will make a big difference.  If you go at 20mph the other way, it won't matter at all!   
The rule is that slower riders save more minutes from aerodynamic improvements over a given distance than faster riders - because they are riding against the wind for longer. 

But: you have to put gear somewhere and anywhere you put it has some sort of aero penalty. Bags on the forks isn't great aeroz, but might just be the easiest and most handy place to put stuff.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: bludger on February 17, 2020, 01:38:24 pm
I would really rather not put anything on the fork at all but when you're in that desperate a state....

What does mystify me a bit is that you never see frame-length top tube bags in these races. They lash onto the top tube, the seat post, and the stem. I appreciate that badly packed there might be a danger of thigh rub but I would really hate to have anything on the forks. Planet X used to do one (think it was branded as wilier), seems that it's gone when I look now.

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0268/3389/products/IMG_4252_2000x.JPG?v=1571438756)
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: grams on February 17, 2020, 01:46:23 pm
If you combine one of those with a tail pack there’s nowhere to get your foot across to get on the bike.

(Unless you have a very low top tube like the bike pictured)
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: bludger on February 17, 2020, 01:47:49 pm
yeah but think of the gainz
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Frank9755 on February 17, 2020, 03:18:28 pm
Wouldn't work for me.  I have tried putting a bag there and it rubs.  My knees (especially right one) comes closest in at the top of the pedal stroke, so that is the worst place for me to put a bag. 

Some people do do it, but not many. 

What I've never seen anyone else do is put a bag under the down tube, behind the front wheel.  I did that successfully on a couple of events.  It gets dirty, but it's out of the wind.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: bludger on February 17, 2020, 03:28:46 pm
Yeah it'd be OK for 'hopefully never use this' stuff i.e. pump, tubes.

How about inside the rear triangle? Where the traditional silca frame pump goes. Not a huge amount of room to be fair... Possibly enough for one or two other bits though. And it does free up room in other bags if you do put a pump there.

Other places which MTBers have used:

Inside the handlebars (which does actually work for tubeless plug kits).

Inside the top cap.

Inside the BB.

More of my bad ideas:

Inside a disc wheel.

On the other side of your SPDs

Inside the down tube / seat post (??)

Wedged inside a wheel

A thru axle that is also a toothbrush

(https://thedailygrindbmx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/jake-back-wheel.jpg)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5307/5886569468_5c3666c14e.jpg)
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Frank9755 on February 17, 2020, 04:27:28 pm
There is a german company which makes a bag for the top of the rear triangle.  Expensive.  and only worth it on large frames
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Legs on February 17, 2020, 05:42:31 pm
Couple of people moving over from TT - Nick Clarke and Chris Hall.

Also Liam Yates, son of Sean.   Decent road racer trying a different discipline.
Also Rob Enslin, a former team-mate of mine at AW Cycles.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: quixoticgeek on February 17, 2020, 05:54:35 pm

Is it Topeak or one of the other tool/pump makers who make a full set of emergency tools that you can store in places like a bar end, and even the hollow bottom bracket of a Hollowtech II crankset. I dunno if I would trust that to last the first Pavé segment tho...

I tried running 2 alpkit top tube bags on my top tube, but it didn't work, one does, the second doesn't.

J
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Morbihan on February 17, 2020, 06:28:46 pm
Im curios if there is much of an aero penalty with small fork mounted cages on a bike thats chugging along at 25kph for most of the journey.

There is, for two reasons:
Firstly, bikes rarely chug along at a steady pace.  Nornally you go a good bit slower up hills and faster down them - and then you have disproproportionately more drag. 
Secondly, it's not your speed relative to the ground that dictates drag, but relative to the air.  If you go at 5 mph into a 20mph wind, then aerodynamics will make a big difference.  If you go at 20mph the other way, it won't matter at all!   
The rule is that slower riders save more minutes from aerodynamic improvements over a given distance than faster riders - because they are riding against the wind for longer. 

But: you have to put gear somewhere and anywhere you put it has some sort of aero penalty. Bags on the forks isn't great aeroz, but might just be the easiest and most handy place to put stuff.

Thanks Frank. I'm not totally getting on board with all of this though so please humour me.
I was under the impression that air resistance ramps up massively at higher speeds. (i.e.) its not a flat line graph. Wouldn't that then mean that aero is far more relevant as the speed increases? The shape of a sports car as opposed to a 2cv.  I do get that the slower rider is out in the wind longer, but does the fact that they are slower make it a different  strength of wind?
Also if a bike is loaded at the front/fork area. Isn't it just plonked in front of the rider and their rotating legs that is bad air anyway?
Lastly with regards to bags above the top tube, wouldn't weight distribution come into play in terms of rocking around and making the rider work to maintain balance? Heavy stuff down in the hold and all that.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: zigzag on February 17, 2020, 07:12:02 pm
in aerodynamics speed with reference to the ground is irrelevant. what's important is speed in/through the air, so in case of a bicycle everything above the tyre contact patch. if the wind is head or cross-head it will play against your moving direction and for slower and non-aerodynamic riders it will be more significant. the reasons being 1) they are slower as they can't generate watts (due to fatigue, lack of fitness or both) 2) fighting wind speed requires higher percentage of all available power 3) due to lower speed more time is spent to cover the same distance.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: mattc on February 17, 2020, 07:42:05 pm
Also if a bike is loaded at the front/fork area. Isn't it just plonked in front of the rider and their rotating legs that is bad air anyway?
I think there's definitely something in that. Also, front panniers [which must be similar to fork-leg-packs!] might be better than rear as you get a more "tadpole" shape. Which is generally better than a "reverse tadpole", IIRC

(https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Hao_Liu8/publication/13904925/figure/fig1/AS:601716504420371@1520471802783/Flow-patterns-around-a-nonundulating-tadpole-A-and-a-fish-shaped-object-B-at-a.png)

There was a MUCH DEBATED study of different pannier/bag locations in a windtunnel, probably in Bicycle Quarterly; I don't think it was very well done, but it did get people thinking a bit!
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: bludger on February 17, 2020, 08:02:14 pm
I tried running 2 alpkit top tube bags on my top tube, but it didn't work, one does, the second doesn't.

J
interesting - I bet it could be made to work somehow but then really the reasonable thing to do would be to just have one big one.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: quixoticgeek on February 17, 2020, 08:13:14 pm
interesting - I bet it could be made to work somehow but then really the reasonable thing to do would be to just have one big one.


There are certain spacial requirements when coming off the saddle and straddling the bike that preclude the fitting of the second bag. On the plus side the experimentation was probably less painful for me than it would have been for a guy of the same inside leg length on that setup...

I have tried putting a spare tyre in that position, but it didn't really work that well either, tho it was just that bit lower so less of an issue. Mostly I couldn't get it to stay vertical. In the end was easier to just bungee said outer to the side of my front bag.

J

Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Phil W on February 17, 2020, 09:42:21 pm
Not a singlespeed in sight, at least from those who submitted their rig photos.

I'm not surprised 1x is proving more popular than 2x, seems to be the way things have moved in the recent past.

I've not found anywhere with commentary on the race so far. Be interesting to know how Christian Meier built his early lead. I'm also looking forward to seeing how Sofiane's strategy pans out on this race. Will he repeat what he did on Tour Divide and not sleep for the first 3 nights. James Hayden usually has a good whole race strategy, so I'm expecting he'll move up the order in time.

These guys are commenting on it.

https://www.dotwatcher.cc/race/atlas-mountain-race-2020
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: quixoticgeek on February 17, 2020, 09:59:04 pm

Has Sofaine stopped? Looks like James is reeling him in, Also looks like he's slowly edging out Jay, tho that one is hard to say.

J
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Davef on February 17, 2020, 10:08:49 pm
Im curios if there is much of an aero penalty with small fork mounted cages on a bike thats chugging along at 25kph for most of the journey.

There is, for two reasons:
Firstly, bikes rarely chug along at a steady pace.  Nornally you go a good bit slower up hills and faster down them - and then you have disproproportionately more drag. 
Secondly, it's not your speed relative to the ground that dictates drag, but relative to the air.  If you go at 5 mph into a 20mph wind, then aerodynamics will make a big difference.  If you go at 20mph the other way, it won't matter at all!   
The rule is that slower riders save more minutes from aerodynamic improvements over a given distance than faster riders - because they are riding against the wind for longer. 

But: you have to put gear somewhere and anywhere you put it has some sort of aero penalty. Bags on the forks isn't great aeroz, but might just be the easiest and most handy place to put stuff.

Thanks Frank. I'm not totally getting on board with all of this though so please humour me.
I was under the impression that air resistance ramps up massively at higher speeds. (i.e.) its not a flat line graph. Wouldn't that then mean that aero is far more relevant as the speed increases? The shape of a sports car as opposed to a 2cv.  I do get that the slower rider is out in the wind longer, but does the fact that they are slower make it a different  strength of wind?
Also if a bike is loaded at the front/fork area. Isn't it just plonked in front of the rider and their rotating legs that is bad air anyway?
Lastly with regards to bags above the top tube, wouldn't weight distribution come into play in terms of rocking around and making the rider work to maintain balance? Heavy stuff down in the hold and all that.
Air resistance does ramp up massively with velocity (relative to the air as stated). The force is proportional to v squared, the work (the watts) to v cubed. Double the velocity and the work done against air resistance goes up by a factor of 8 which is huge. By being more aero you clearly save vastly more watts at the higher speeds. However, you don’t get much bang for your buck. The 40w you save may only give you an extra 1km/h. At much lower speed the same aero improvements may only save you only 10w, but the 10w may still buy you the same 1km/h and the same speed improvements buy you more time.


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Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Phil W on February 17, 2020, 10:32:54 pm
Im curios if there is much of an aero penalty with small fork mounted cages on a bike thats chugging along at 25kph for most of the journey.

There is, for two reasons:
Firstly, bikes rarely chug along at a steady pace.  Nornally you go a good bit slower up hills and faster down them - and then you have disproproportionately more drag. 
Secondly, it's not your speed relative to the ground that dictates drag, but relative to the air.  If you go at 5 mph into a 20mph wind, then aerodynamics will make a big difference.  If you go at 20mph the other way, it won't matter at all!   
The rule is that slower riders save more minutes from aerodynamic improvements over a given distance than faster riders - because they are riding against the wind for longer. 

But: you have to put gear somewhere and anywhere you put it has some sort of aero penalty. Bags on the forks isn't great aeroz, but might just be the easiest and most handy place to put stuff.

Thanks Frank. I'm not totally getting on board with all of this though so please humour me.
I was under the impression that air resistance ramps up massively at higher speeds. (i.e.) its not a flat line graph. Wouldn't that then mean that aero is far more relevant as the speed increases? The shape of a sports car as opposed to a 2cv.  I do get that the slower rider is out in the wind longer, but does the fact that they are slower make it a different  strength of wind?
Also if a bike is loaded at the front/fork area. Isn't it just plonked in front of the rider and their rotating legs that is bad air anyway?
Lastly with regards to bags above the top tube, wouldn't weight distribution come into play in terms of rocking around and making the rider work to maintain balance? Heavy stuff down in the hold and all that.
Air resistance does ramp up massively with velocity (relative to the air as stated). The force is proportional to v squared, the work (the watts) to v cubed. Double the velocity and the work done against air resistance goes up by a factor of 8 which is huge. By being more aero you clearly save vastly more watts at the higher speeds. However, you don’t get much bang for your buck. The 40w you save may only give you an extra 1km/h. At much lower speed the same aero improvements may only save you only 10w, but the 10w may still buy you the same 1km/h and the same speed improvements buy you more time.


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85% of the aero drag is the rider though.  Only so much you can get from the bike’s 15%  contribution.  A comparison was done between a road bike and low racer recumbent, same rider, at 20 mph.  The low racer position meant he was outputting 100 watts less to maintain the 20 mph. That’s with bog standard wheels.  All because of the rider being a hell of a lot more aero.

Now back to the racing...
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on February 17, 2020, 10:46:06 pm
Back in the ‘80s there were aero panniers, front and rear, that supposedly were faster than standard panniers. Seems feasible that they might be faster than the random kegs strapped to the fork blades that current bikepacker fashion dictates.

Specialized Tailwind panniers
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1189185-road-test-bike-review-1982-specialized-sequoia-allez.html

There is a modern version of the Specialized panniers too.
http://www.bentrideronline.com/?p=7399
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: quixoticgeek on February 17, 2020, 10:46:21 pm
85% of the aero drag is the rider though.  Only so much you can get from the bike’s 15%  contribution.  A comparison was done between a road bike and low racer recumbent, same rider, at 20 mph.  The low racer position meant he was outputting 100 watts less to maintain the 20 mph. That’s with bog standard wheels.  All because of the rider being a hell of a lot more aero.

That 85:15 is based on a normal road bike and rider. Attach enough junk to the bike and that 15% becomes more significant.

J
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Phil W on February 17, 2020, 10:47:19 pm

Has Sofaine stopped? Looks like James is reeling him in, Also looks like he's slowly edging out Jay, tho that one is hard to say.

J

I don’t think he has. According to the race manual he’s on a section, with sections washed out, that requires some hike a bike
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: quixoticgeek on February 17, 2020, 11:26:28 pm
I don’t think he has. According to the race manual he’s on a section, with sections washed out, that requires some hike a bike

Yeah, Once I zoomed in a bit, I noticed he was very wiggly bit of terrain, so it looked like he wasn't moving.

Jay and James seem to be 14-20km apart, but it's really hard to tell if they are gaining, losing, between each other as the terrain could be a big factor. Wish we had time splits are more frequent locations.

I really should go to bed, but I can't stop watching the tracking.

J
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: psyclist on February 18, 2020, 07:35:17 am
What I've never seen anyone else do is put a bag under the down tube, behind the front wheel.  I did that successfully on a couple of events.  It gets dirty, but it's out of the wind.

I've done/do that. When I need to return from the finish of a race by European train, I store the bag for my bike under the down tube, using Voile straps to keep it secure. I know, a slight weight penalty, but I prefer the peace of mind compared to not being sure I'll find something suitable to wrap the bike in.

These guys are commenting on it.

https://www.dotwatcher.cc/race/atlas-mountain-race-2020

Thanks Phil  :thumbsup:

Back to the current position, it looks like Sofiane had a couple of hours stopped last night. That's probably all he'll take, as I can see him finishing at the end of the day, depending upon terrain. A few ups but a lot of downhill to the finish.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: quixoticgeek on February 18, 2020, 10:18:45 am

I can't work out if James is gaining on Sofaine or not, but he seems to have doubled the distance between him and Jay. Jay has even dropped one place.

James posted on instagram earlier that he had an issue with his rear wheel that involved an angle grinder to remove a buggered valve...

J
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Phil W on February 18, 2020, 12:15:17 pm

I can't work out if James is gaining on Sofaine or not, but he seems to have doubled the distance between him and Jay. Jay has even dropped one place.

James posted on instagram earlier that he had an issue with his rear wheel that involved an angle grinder to remove a buggered valve...

J

James has made about 5km inroad to Sofiane’s lead since I was watching yesterday. It’s going to take some serious stoppage of Sofiane for James to overhaul that lead. Especially as Sofiane will soon enough start losing altitude.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: quixoticgeek on February 18, 2020, 12:23:19 pm
James has made about 5km inroad to Sofiane’s lead since I was watching yesterday. It’s going to take some serious stoppage of Sofiane for James to overhaul that lead. Especially as Sofiane will soon enough start losing altitude.

Sofaine is through CP3.

Considering that James slept during the night, and Sofaine had a 1 hour stop (no data on if he actually slept during that time). It's an interesting dynamic.

I wonder what the surface is like after Cp3.

Can't... stop... watching...

J
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Morbihan on February 18, 2020, 01:08:56 pm
It will be interesting after the race ends to absorb the feedback as to how it compares with the likes of SRMR and the like.
I can see this one becoming really popular.  An extreme event but perhaps a little more accessible than SRMR in terms of Geography and culture for the average racer.
Though, I would imagine its a big step up in intensity and discomfort over the ID.


Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Frank9755 on February 18, 2020, 01:25:52 pm
Chris Phillips, who scratched and has done SRMR, reckons it was very hard.  Partly because it is before rather than after the European season.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: bludger on February 18, 2020, 02:54:50 pm
An interesting array of bike set ups
https://bikepacking.com/bikes/2020-atlas-mountain-race-rigs/
Finally got around to looking at some of these bikes.

I think I recognise the 'cheap no-name rollbag' of mr Tobias Bader...

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/BAPODWHBB/podsacs-waterproof-handlebar-barrel-bag

My pet underdog rider has to be Mr Drummond, with his 90s hardtail 26er and handmade Lidl bag for life snack pods. Interestingly he's also got a bottle cage on a seat stay.

None of the gear, all the ideas! Not placing at all badly either.

Charlie Holden is another highlight, he's carrying barely a thing. Jost Litzen also seems to be using a bag which is identical to my PX one. Lloyd Wright is using one for sure.

Top points to ROBERT SCHMIDT also for his v-braked steel frame hybrid/rigid MTB.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Peat on February 18, 2020, 03:15:44 pm
I love that rig/kit run-down.

There are a few after my own heart there. I'd take a 29er hardtail on fast rolling tyres with some TT bars up front.

Sod creeping down those loose rocky descents on some of those wafty, 'aero' gravel bikes on skinny tyres. 
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: bludger on February 18, 2020, 04:00:31 pm
My personal money-no-object pick would be a Brother Big Bro https://www.brothercycles.com/shop/bikes/big-bro-complete/ with TT bars.

Seems that there's only one left in large in the UK....

https://pedalsbikecare.co.uk/shop/2019-brother-cycles-big-bro-complete/
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: mattc on February 18, 2020, 06:55:16 pm
It will be interesting after the race ends to absorb the feedback as to how it compares with the likes of SRMR and the like.
I can see this one becoming really popular.  An extreme event but perhaps a little more accessible than SRMR in terms of Geography and culture for the average racer.
Though, I would imagine its a big step up in intensity and discomfort over the ID.
Yes!

(but ... what's the ID ?  :-\ )
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Morbihan on February 18, 2020, 07:53:20 pm
It will be interesting after the race ends to absorb the feedback as to how it compares with the likes of SRMR and the like.
I can see this one becoming really popular.  An extreme event but perhaps a little more accessible than SRMR in terms of Geography and culture for the average racer.
Though, I would imagine its a big step up in intensity and discomfort over the ID.
Yes!

(but ... what's the ID ?  :-\ )

Italy Divide. :thumbs:
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: zigzag on February 18, 2020, 08:48:19 pm
my idea of doing this race - lightweight full sus or hardtail mtb, sleeping kit, ride at 50% of effort (100% being turning myself inside out to finish asap), sleep six hours every night, take lots of photos, talk to other riders, interact with the locals. not a "race", really (but i wouldn't want to race it).

i can only fell sorry for the leader for skipping his sleep - it becomes a very dark state of existence (hating yourself, everyone and everything around you - i've been there..). 90km to go though - nearly there!
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: quixoticgeek on February 18, 2020, 09:40:29 pm

Wondering how close James can get to Sofaine in the final few km.

Looks like Jay has regained 3rd.

I need to sleep, but this is getting too exciting not to keep watching...

J
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Morbihan on February 19, 2020, 02:15:10 am

i can only fell sorry for the leader for skipping his sleep - it becomes a very dark state of existence (hating yourself, everyone and everything around you - i've been there..). 90km to go though - nearly there!
[/quote]

fuckinwithyaself then?   :D
PBP 2019?
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Morbihan on February 19, 2020, 02:20:20 am

Wondering how close James can get to Sofaine in the final few km.

Looks like Jay has regained 3rd.

I need to sleep, but this is getting too exciting not to keep watching...

J

Only just after 10pm here on AST, so still dot watching.
32km between James and Sofiane. Nail biter!
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: psyclist on February 19, 2020, 01:06:50 pm
Winning time: 3 days, 21 hours, 50 minutes. For 1150km off-road, along some sketchy tracks at time. Phenominal.

2 hrs 15 minutes of sleep in that time. Sofiane is unmatched in his approach currently. I hope this doesn't burn him out anytime soon ... it must take a bigger toll than adopting a schedule with more downtime. At least from interviews we learn he rarely uses a boost from caffeine; he is able to sustain his nocturnal ways innately.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Carlosfandango on February 19, 2020, 01:51:27 pm
Winning time: 3 days, 21 hours, 50 minutes. For 1150km off-road, along some sketchy tracks at time. Phenominal.

2 hrs 15 minutes of sleep in that time. Sofiane is unmatched in his approach currently. I hope this doesn't burn him out anytime soon ... it must take a bigger toll than adopting a schedule with more downtime. At least from interviews we learn he rarely uses a boost from caffeine; he is able to sustain his nocturnal ways innately.

What!?! No hotels and no single speed, craziness, but absolutely phenominal and phenomenal.😁
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: andyoxon on February 19, 2020, 02:10:53 pm
...
An interesting array of bike set ups
https://bikepacking.com/bikes/2020-atlas-mountain-race-rigs/

Lloyd Wright's (London) setup.  Bike's a bit...   ;D
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Karla on February 19, 2020, 04:26:47 pm
Winning time: 3 days, 21 hours, 50 minutes. For 1150km off-road, along some sketchy tracks at time. Phenominal.

2 hrs 15 minutes of sleep in that time. Sofiane is unmatched in his approach currently. I hope this doesn't burn him out anytime soon ... it must take a bigger toll than adopting a schedule with more downtime. At least from interviews we learn he rarely uses a boost from caffeine; he is able to sustain his nocturnal ways innately.

So about twice as long as the PBP winners take to do the same distance, over considerable harder terrain, with less support and having to factor (a small amount of) sleep in once it goes over the two day mark.  Sounds about right.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Frank9755 on February 19, 2020, 06:21:56 pm
I think going for over 4 days without having at least a 1.5 hour sleep cycle is pretty extreme. 
I've done a few long rides with a bit of sleep dep but I know it's not great for health and I wouldn't do that.

Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Morbihan on February 20, 2020, 06:41:41 pm
I think going for over 4 days without having at least a 1.5 hour sleep cycle is pretty extreme. 
I've done a few long rides with a bit of sleep dep but I know it's not great for health and I wouldn't do that.

I agree. With the caveat that some people just need less sleep than others. Margaret Thatcher probably could have made a good ultra rider!
Not resting sufficiently on the longer ultras is a sure fire way to derail a plan all the way down the pack.
 I had personal experience of that chasing down the closure of CP3 in TCRno6 and made a personal vow not to get into that situation again unless, perhaps, its for the finish line. Its not a good place to be. Its just a bike race, safety first, etc.
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: mattc on February 20, 2020, 06:53:11 pm
I think going for over 4 days without having at least a 1.5 hour sleep cycle is pretty extreme. 
I've done a few long rides with a bit of sleep dep but I know it's not great for health and I wouldn't do that.

I agree. With the caveat that some people just need less sleep than others. Margaret Thatcher probably could have made a good ultra rider!
Yup, on both counts.
This reminds of the fella who dominated RAAM a few years back (army-sponsored, Slovak maybe?). He said that many riders could do the first day-or-two on no sleep, but around days 3-5 he pulled away while they were topping up their sleep banks.

It's clear to me this is a god-given thing, like your ftp, or your height; I don't even believe you can train much for it. (even if it wasn't bad for your long-term health to do so).
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: Karla on February 20, 2020, 07:05:07 pm
Jure Robic (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/sport-obituaries/8166222/Jure-Robic.html)
Title: Re: Atlas Mountain Race.
Post by: mattc on February 20, 2020, 07:08:33 pm
Jure Robic (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/sport-obituaries/8166222/Jure-Robic.html)
Thank-you.

(RIP Jure - I'm sorry, but I could never remember your name when you were alive, either  ::-)  )