Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Freewheeling => Velo Fixe => Topic started by: rogerzilla on August 02, 2009, 04:07:12 pm

Title: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on August 02, 2009, 04:07:12 pm
Derek at Old Bike Trader has e-mailed me thus:

Quote
Hello all
I have just had news that the S3X hubs are at sea on the way to Europe and should be available late August, on confirmation of arrival in the UK I will notify cost and delivery details.
So I can confirm my order quantity with my supplier please let me know if you require more than one unit or have friends or colleagues who wish to purchase the hub also.
Regards Derek.

Derek is at oldbiketrader@aol.com

There are pictures of the hub in the new SA catalogue:

http://www.sturmey-archer.com/pdfs/Sturmey-Archer_2009-2010_Catalogue.pdf
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: TimO on August 02, 2009, 04:57:56 pm
A bit OT, but it was interesting looking in their catalogue.  They do the X-RK8, which looks like it could be useful for a disc-braked commuter.  I wonder how it compares with the Alfine, it certainly seems to be a bit cheaper.

I quite fancy a disc braked, hub geared commuter, but I think the S3X fixed approach may be a bit too much for me.  Yes, I know, I'm chicken! ;D
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on August 02, 2009, 06:28:34 pm
The Sturmey 8-speed is nowhere near as good as the Alfine, or even the Nexus 8.  Chris Juden of the CTC tested it and didn't like it; the big problem is that direct drive is 1st gear and everything is geared up from that.  This means you end up running a ring and sprocket combination like 28 x 20 for climbing, and suffer inefficiency in all the most frequently-used gears.

Back on topic, the gear ratios of the S3X are 62.5/75/100 i.e. direct drive is top.  This isn't ideal either (you want your cruising gear to be direct drive)  but apparently it's not possible to make a fixed 3-speed that works otherwise.  The old ASC was the same basic setup, although with closer ratios.  On the other hand, the power losses in a mere 3-speed hub - assuming only one planetary geartrain in use at a time - are minimal and on a par with a really good clean derailleur system.

I was thinking of running 48 x 15, which would give gears of about 53"/63"/85" with 23c tyres.  I'd normally ride 48 x 18 fixed (about 70"), but that's just to get me down the hills without blowing the front tyre off the rim with brake heat.  63" would be much nicer on the flat.  The hub could be left on the bike all the time; 85" is great for TTs and it would be as efficient as a normal fixed gear.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: oncemore on August 03, 2009, 10:21:21 am
I guess for most folk the price (incl for the shifter) will be something of a deciding factor!
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: clarion on August 03, 2009, 10:36:39 am
I think it is very interesting as a unit, but price is definitely an issue...
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: oncemore on August 03, 2009, 12:31:26 pm
Genuine question: why is it important for ones "cruising gear" (by which I assume you mean that most often used) to be "direct drive"?

Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: clarion on August 03, 2009, 12:32:05 pm
Greatest efficiency.  

In either of the other two gears, you are turning more gears, so there are greater losses.  It's a damn shame it's so difficult to have a fixed that is direct in the middle, then an overdrive for downhills, and a lower gear for hills or eadwinds. :(
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: oncemore on August 03, 2009, 01:05:20 pm
"there are greater losses"

Thought that would be the answer - but are the losses sufficient to be a real issue for a potterer like me?
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on August 03, 2009, 01:39:31 pm
Interested, how much?
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: clarion on August 03, 2009, 02:58:46 pm
"there are greater losses"

Thought that would be the answer - but are the losses sufficient to be a real issue for a potterer like me?

Given the figures for hub gear losses, which seem to be just higher than average for a derailleur system (though higher than a well-maintained one), I would suspect that the efficiency of an indirect drive on this unit is comparable to a derailleur equipped bike </pure speculation>
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: robbo6 on August 03, 2009, 04:18:11 pm
Plenty of people put up with the inefficiency of freewheel hub gears for pottering.

Quote
Interested, how much?
I saw on a SA blog nearer $200 than $400, the writer was being very cagey about a price, this was in the winter.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: clarion on August 03, 2009, 04:23:44 pm
Yup.  Cagey they have been.  I'd want to know much more precisely before I commited.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on August 03, 2009, 05:04:54 pm
Supposed to be $160-$190, so reckon on the same in pounds, since we always get shafted.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: oncemore on August 03, 2009, 05:06:12 pm
Whilst the "effeciency loss" sounds well within my standards, I strongly suspect the price will not!

I'll hazard a guestimate - hub plus bits and bobs and shifter - min 250 quids, max 350.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on August 03, 2009, 06:55:57 pm
I wouldn't have thought so.  A new S-RF3 is only about £70, and you can get one built into a Merc wheel for £40 (then throw away the rim and spokes).  Obviously there will be a fashionista premium, but I don't think they can charge Rohloff prices for an SA product made in Taiwan.

The bits and bobs, if you're going to do it properly, are a fulcrum clip for your top tube and a pulley for your seat cluster (attached to the seat tube).  Never run the cable via the BB - it either needs loads of outer or it will get chewed by the chain when you fix a puncture.

True obsessives can have these things done as braze-ons  :-[

EDIT: anecdotal evidence here says €150, which is about £130.

velospace forums - the s3x should be launched in the u.s. by now (http://velospace.org/forums/discussion/888/the-s3x-should-be-launched-in-the-us-by-now/)
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: robbo6 on August 04, 2009, 07:53:25 am
On  another OT note, I see that SA are introducing bar end changers for their freewheel hubs.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: clarion on August 05, 2009, 03:04:22 pm
On another thread, I speculated about my wish to have interchangeable S3X and hub geared rear wheels, but Simon Galgut wisely pointed out chainline problems.  The figures are these:

                                   OLN                                   CL

S3X                             120/130                             42, 43, 44, 45

iMotion 9                     135                                     48.8

Rohloff                         135                                     52

Is there a way I can span these gaps & make a viable swap?  I guess the stays can be built as 132mm & sprung to fit, but is the chainline problem a showstopper?  It's less than 4mm difference, but I don't want to risk a chain coming off.  Is there a busk?  Or could I change the chainline enough at the cranks when I change the wheel?

Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: oncemore on August 05, 2009, 03:47:12 pm
I'm probably missing something obvious, but if set it at 47 at the front then both the S3x and the iMotion would be only 2mm out which is fine. And use a 132 rear end (Cotic?).
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: clarion on August 05, 2009, 03:51:08 pm
OK, thanks.  I wasn't sure if the difference in OLN might cause as many problems as the chainline deviation, but I suppose you're right.  2mm deviation acceptable?  I suppose so.  I'm not sure what degree of accuracy I could measure.

I just need to experiment to see what chainset could do me 47mm.

Thank you. :)

PS: Not OT for this thread, as it affects whether I want one or not :)
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: robbo6 on August 05, 2009, 04:21:08 pm
Or set the outer shoulders of the cranks to give 45 for the s3x and use spacers under the chainwheel for the im9. It's not going to be a 5 minute job to change over anyway, unless you leave both sets of controls and cables in place all the time.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: clarion on August 05, 2009, 04:22:36 pm
Sounds doable, though...
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on August 05, 2009, 05:23:15 pm
Just respace the S3X a bit before building the wheel.  If it's like other modern SA hubs there will be a spacer between the RH locktab washer and locknut, or the locknut itself will be very thick.  Remove spacing from here (or fit an old-style SA locknut which is very thin), move it to under the LH locknut and you have increased the maximum chainline.  Some 1mm thick washers are handy for such fine tuning.

Don't worry about the wheel dish - few SA wheels are truly dishless.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: alexb on August 05, 2009, 05:49:48 pm
Two chainrings with the same tooth count?
The inner and outer would be about 5-8mm apart wouldn't they?
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: oncemore on August 05, 2009, 06:49:34 pm
2mm is neither here nor there - why manufacture complicated answers to a problem that doesn't exist!
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on August 05, 2009, 07:23:01 pm
Depends what sort of chain you use.  A full-bushing one can crackle like mad with a 2mm difference.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: oncemore on August 05, 2009, 09:20:36 pm
I'm clearly not that sensitive! Just use a cheap chain - lot easier to bin 'em every month and replace!
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Adrian on August 29, 2009, 10:16:48 am
Are they any closer yet?
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on August 29, 2009, 11:07:00 am
As of the 17th August, no.  Not shipped yet - Derek must have been misinformed.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Adrian on September 23, 2009, 11:43:52 pm
Email from Derek

I have now had confirmation that the hubs will be available by 1st November, it would have been now but SA Holland forgot to ship the sprockets with the hubs.
 
1.  The first shipment hub shells are in machined alloy matt finish, with a SA logo
 
2.  The O.L.D choice is 120 or 130mm
 
3.  Sprocket are a new design with 8 large and 1 small location spline, in 1/8" X 1/2"
     pitch, in 3 sizes 13, 15, 16, teeth
 
4.  Gear changer supplied with hub set is the bar end type, but I have ordered the handle
      bar lever type if you prefer.
 
5.  Gear ratio is 3rd gear direct, 2nd gear minus 75%, 1st gear minus 62%.
 
6.  SA will be offering a matching chain wheel sets in 42, 44, 46, & 48 teeth, but when     
     these were made to suit the 8 speed only 2 types were ever offered for sale,
     so this is a wait &  see item   
         
7.  Finally the most important bit the price, I envisage the hub set will retails @ £175 this 
     may be cheaper, it depends on the quantity discount I can sweat from my supplier.
 
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Adrian on September 23, 2009, 11:51:26 pm
Email from Derek

I have now had confirmation that the hubs will be available by 1st November, it would have been now but SA Holland forgot to ship the sprockets with the hubs.
 
1.  The first shipment hub shells are in machined alloy matt finish, with a SA logo
 
2.  The O.L.D choice is 120 or 130mm
 
3.  Sprocket are a new design with 8 large and 1 small location spline, in 1/8" X 1/2"
     pitch, in 3 sizes 13, 15, 16, teeth
 
4.  Gear changer supplied with hub set is the bar end type, but I have ordered the handle
      bar lever type if you prefer.
 
5.  Gear ratio is 3rd gear direct, 2nd gear minus 75%, 1st gear minus 62%.
 
6.  SA will be offering a matching chain wheel sets in 42, 44, 46, & 48 teeth, but when    
     these were made to suit the 8 speed only 2 types were ever offered for sale,
     so this is a wait &  see item  
        
7.  Finally the most important bit the price, I envisage the hub set will retails @ £175 this  
     may be cheaper, it depends on the quantity discount I can sweat from my supplier.
 


1 Fine

2 Fine

3 Not Fine. I want 47x17  513x17

4 OK, although ideally I would prefer downtube

5 OK

6 What is it with these non-prime numbers?

7 That is a little bit at the ouch end of the price range.

Time for a bit of a think
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on September 24, 2009, 06:37:48 am
It's all fine by me except that the price is about £25 more than I thought it would be.  48 x 15 on 700c would allow me to use the bike for racing and everything else, although ideally I'd have liked the choice of a 14T as well.  They are Shimano-pattern splines.

EDIT: I wouldn't bother with the SA crankset unless the chainline really is going to be a problem.  I have a TA crankset on the shortest possible TA BB, which gives a chainline of about 46.5mm, so I will need to respace the hub before building a wheel, to increase the rear chainline by 1.5mm.   Alternatively I may be able to get the chainline within 1mm by tightening the RH crankbolt down harder (you'd be surprised), so I'll try that first.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: robbo6 on September 25, 2009, 11:23:54 am
... but I don't think they can charge Rohloff prices for an SA product made in Taiwan.
...

£175 for 3 speeds is about £58 per speed.
Rohloff £840 (nutted axle, SJS) for 14 speeds is about  £60 per speed.
Yes, I do have time to waste.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Gattopardo on September 25, 2009, 11:27:34 am
Well I'm conferting a 4 speed to a 3 speed fixed will tell you how it goes.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: alexb on September 25, 2009, 03:20:03 pm
... but I don't think they can charge Rohloff prices for an SA product made in Taiwan.
...

£175 for 3 speeds is about £58 per speed.
Rohloff £840 (nutted axle, SJS) for 14 speeds is about  £60 per speed.
Yes, I do have time to waste.

On that basis, the Alfine is £25 a speed, bargain.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Greenbank on September 25, 2009, 03:33:18 pm
... but I don't think they can charge Rohloff prices for an SA product made in Taiwan.
...

£175 for 3 speeds is about £58 per speed.
Rohloff £840 (nutted axle, SJS) for 14 speeds is about  £60 per speed.
Yes, I do have time to waste.

On that basis, the Alfine is £25 a speed, bargain.

EAI 1/8" Sprocket. £19.50 from Hubjub.

Ambrosio 1/8" Sprocket. Under £10 from Parker International (http://www.parker-international.co.uk/3334/Ambrosio-Fixed-Track-Sprocket.html)

:)
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: oncemore on September 25, 2009, 08:29:37 pm
Some words/pics over on On One site. I rather think I'd wait until they have finished the claimed intensive testing process!
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: robbo6 on September 25, 2009, 09:05:06 pm
... but I don't think they can charge Rohloff prices for an SA product made in Taiwan.
...

£175 for 3 speeds is about £58 per speed.
Rohloff £840 (nutted axle, SJS) for 14 speeds is about  £60 per speed.
Yes, I do have time to waste.

On that basis, the Alfine is £25 a speed, bargain.

EAI 1/8" Sprocket. £19.50 from Hubjub.

Ambrosio 1/8" Sprocket. Under £10 from Parker International (http://www.parker-international.co.uk/3334/Ambrosio-Fixed-Track-Sprocket.html)

:)
But you have to buy a hub to put the sprockets on.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Adrian on September 30, 2009, 08:01:59 am
Some words/pics over on On One site. I rather think I'd wait until they have finished the claimed intensive testing process!

But why are they pairing it with a Pompino when it is crying out to go in a Lincolnshire Poacher?

I have bitten the bullet and written my first cheque in years.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: robbo6 on September 30, 2009, 05:34:52 pm
Well, I've turned up a pulley and brazed it onto a suitable frame (1976 Harry Hall 531 P.G.). If I decide against the S£X I'll go for a freewheel S.A.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on October 01, 2009, 07:21:16 pm
Some words/pics over on On One site. I rather think I'd wait until they have finished the claimed intensive testing process!

But why are they pairing it with a Pompino when it is crying out to go in a Lincolnshire Poacher?

I have bitten the bullet and written my first cheque in years.
Don't forget to get a pulley and fulcrum clip (for your tube sizes) when placing the final order.  Running it in outer all the way to the chainstay is less than satisfactory; you normally have a short piece of outer to the front of the top tube, where the fulcrum goes, and then the rest is bare cable.  The pulley generally goes on the seat tube and the cable is never parallel to the top tube...you get used to the looks.

I wonder how much lash there is in it?  In the ASC I think direct drive (100%) was lash free, but the others had a fair bit.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Adrian on October 02, 2009, 12:07:51 am
My Carlton Clubman frame has a cable guide at the bottom bracket, I hope to be able to use that one way or another. My preference would be for a downtube changer with naked cable all the way.

As for being "on the lash", it's a toss up between me and the bike.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on October 02, 2009, 06:34:06 am
The trouble with BB routing (especially with bare cable) is that the cable tends to get caught between chain and chainring when you're fixing a p*nct*r*.  Once kinked, it will never shift properly. 

This problem doesn't arise with a derailleur because the rear mech stays in place when the wheel comes off - on a SA hub the cable is free to flop about.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Zoidburg on October 02, 2009, 04:42:03 pm
Does anyone actually have their grubby mits on one of these yet or are we still in the vapour-ware stages?
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Greenbank on October 02, 2009, 05:39:09 pm
On-One Bicycles &raquo; STURMEY S3X - Its HOT HOT HOT - Approved and on the way. (http://www.on-one-shop.co.uk/?p=3299)

Comment 1:-

"
So, how does it ride!?

How’s the gear change?

Can you change under load, not load, does it clunk and click and chunk?

Is it scary?

Does it explode under braking?
"

Comment 6:-

"
our extensive round the park testing revealed clunky shifting of the clunkiest clunks with a clunk feel , suitable for a connoiseseur of clunk

lets just say its not xtr or dura ace , but its by far much more fun , should be loved for what it is

but its just fun , clunk click every trip as the green cross code man used to say

theres a 130 version that should work fine on inbred for the ultimate canal path clunky fixed gear commuter
"
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: clarion on October 02, 2009, 06:15:33 pm
'Clunky' or 'Positive'?  You decide.  I don't expect (or want) silky Super Record shifts on the go.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on October 02, 2009, 06:41:21 pm
Sturmey shifts are agricultural, especially with the traditional trigger.  However, the trigger is the best, especially with an old AW where there is a "neutral" which you really don't want to find by accident.  The trigger can't get stuck between gears, whereas thumbshifters can.

Unfortunately the review doesn't mention the lash.  If you get too much, it's like having a slack chain, although not dangerous.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: clarion on October 02, 2009, 06:49:49 pm
Yes.  With a fixed gear I do NOT want a neutral. :o
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: vorsprung on October 08, 2009, 01:36:16 pm
I see on-one are hinting that they will be offering a pompino built up with this, um item*

On-One Bicycles &raquo; STURMEY S3X - Its HOT HOT HOT - Approved and on the way. (http://www.on-one-shop.co.uk/?p=3299)



*I was about to say "piece of crap" but I've never used one myself, or heard any first hand reports so let's wait and see
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on October 31, 2009, 02:57:12 pm
Mine is in the post.  Before building it into a wheel I shall take it apart (riding one tightens the ball ring down hard; a new one usually comes apart easily even if not built onto a rim).  Partly to see how well greased it is, partly because I want to see how it works.  It's supposed to be a hack of the 5-speed, so presumably has two declutchable suns.  Hopefully the Achilles heel of the latest 3-speed - the rattly pawl masking shroud - is unnecessary and omitted.

If I don't like the way it rides, the wheel will be offered for sale on here; 120mm OLD, so more suited to a track bike or vintage frame than a modern road frame.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: 1gear on October 31, 2009, 07:16:17 pm
Mine is in the post.  Before building it into a wheel I shall take it apart (riding one tightens the ball ring down hard; a new one usually comes apart easily even if not built onto a rim).  Partly to see how well greased it is, partly because I want to see how it works.  It's supposed to be a hack of the 5-speed, so presumably has two declutchable suns.  Hopefully the Achilles heel of the latest 3-speed - the rattly pawl masking shroud - is unnecessary and omitted.

If I don't like the way it rides, the wheel will be offered for sale on here; 120mm OLD, so more suited to a track bike or vintage frame than a modern road frame.

I sort of don't get the whole thing of it. Can you leg break on it? Is the momentum still there pushing your legs around like a normal fixed, but you have 3 gears and not just the 1.
 ???
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on October 31, 2009, 07:29:31 pm
Yes and yes.  However, the old ASC had quite a bit of lash in between "driving" and "braking", and this is likely to be the same in the two geared-down ratios.  Too much lash ruins the "flywheel effect" up hills, so it will be interesting to see what it's like.

Shifting is obviously done while still pedalling, but not under power.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Adrian on November 02, 2009, 10:30:30 am
It's starting to get real now. What was the final price? Where did you get the spoke length data from, or is that the same as one of the existing 5 speeds?
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: border-rider on November 02, 2009, 10:33:58 am
It's supposed to be a hack of the 5-speed, so presumably has two declutchable suns. 

I wonder if it'll share the 5-speed's propensity for disintegration ?
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on November 02, 2009, 06:19:38 pm
It's been so long since the prototype that you'd hope they'd have fixed it by now.  Anyway, it is in my hot little hands and I shall post some photos later, including the mechanism assuming I can get it out of the shell easily (they normally unscrew without much effort before they've been ridden).

Any lash will be easy to determine before it's built into a wheel; IIRC the ASC had no lash in direct drive, but was a bit sloppy in the two lower gears.

Final price was £180 plus £7 special delivery (about £70 over the odds TBH).  I'll measure the hub for wheelbuilding data later; SA did produce a dimensioned drawing about a year ago but since then they have tinkered with the shell to make it take a separate freewheel - so fashionistas who can't cope with fixed can turn it into a £180 AW equivalent with the most efficient gear in the wrong place  ???

I'm going to build it onto a Mavic A317 disc rim, because it won't run a brake and a non-disc rim gets horrible and spotty on the unused braking surfaces.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: TimO on November 02, 2009, 06:57:15 pm
Final price was £180 plus £7 special delivery (about £70 over the odds TBH).

It doesn't seem that bad, after a quick hunt around the only supplier I can find currently is Spa Cycles (http://spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b157s171p1811), who have them at £248.

I imagine they'll become more easily available, and possibly cheaper, eventually.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: 1gear on November 02, 2009, 07:07:15 pm
No chance i will be getting one any time soon then at that price ::-)
Be interesting to see how good it is though.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on November 02, 2009, 07:49:22 pm
OK, here we go:

Wheelbuilding data:

Spoke hole diameter 67mm
Centreline to RH flange 24mm
Centreline to LH flange 29mm

This is for a 120mm hub; the shell of a 130mm hub may be more or less centred between the locknuts.

There is a small amount of lash in all gears, but it's just the planetary gears from the feel of it; only a couple of degrees so the "flywheel effect" should still work when climbing.  The spring pull on the indicator is very high compared to an AM/AW/SRF3.

The bar-end shifter is very nice, although it will be possible to select positions in between gears; a trigger can't do that, which is why they are the traditional choice.  However, the cable pull on this is different to a normal 3-speed trigger.

It comes with a nice LH domed axle nut with the SA logo, and everything else you need except the sprocket.  I measured the maximum chainline as about 46mm, so it will fit in place of a Goldtec hub with no changes up front.  You can have considerably lower chainline down to "track" standard by moving the spacers above, rather than below, the sprocket.  It all feels very well made, with quite a lot of alloy bits.

In the end I decided not to take it apart, since there was no need to respace it so I didn't have to disturb the cones.  I'll wait until they produce a PDF manual.

You get everything shown in the pictures EXCEPT the sprocket PLUS a cable inner and outer.  I think you get a chainstay fulcrum clip as well but, if not, they're very cheap.  I went for a traditional top tube fulcrum clip and seat cluster roller, which means most of the cable is run unsleeved and it can't be caught between the chain and chainring when fixing a puncture.

Pictures:

(http://www.peeble.com/s3x1.jpg)

(http://www.peeble.com/s3x2.jpg)

Now I need to get some spokes.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: clarion on November 02, 2009, 09:11:45 pm
8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on November 02, 2009, 09:36:32 pm
Spa must be making an epic profit at £248!  Unless the hub is a total dog like the old SW, I suspect SA will sell rather a lot of these.  Sheldon Brown spent his latter years pumping up demand for such an item.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: dasmoth on November 04, 2009, 09:23:23 pm
Was passing Condor this afternoon, and spotted one of these on a Tempo.  The combination (plus the fact that the frame was a jealousy-inducing Fratello gray) caused a little cognitive dissonance at first, but it looks pretty good overall.  Certainly, I prefer the bar-end shifter to the old triggers.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: oncemore on November 17, 2009, 10:51:53 am
First Ebay listing I've spotted is for the whole kit at .....£250!

Sturmey Archer S3X FIXED GEAR 3speed HUB - fixie - NEW on eBay (end time  03-Dec-09 15:25:14 GMT) (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sturmey-Archer-S3X-FIXED-GEAR-3speed-HUB-fixie-NEW_W0QQitemZ200401664497QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR?hash=item2ea8deb9f1)

I notice that On One say not supplying (in a bike at any rate) because of doubts about longevity etc.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on November 17, 2009, 08:10:01 pm
It's been road tested for six months in Holland, they say.  The old ASC was durable enough, although some people manage to destroy the SRF3 fairly quickly, because of its flimsy pawl masking arrangement.  The S3X has no pawls.

Mine is going to be road tested in half an hour's time when Mrs Z gets home.

First impressions on cabling it up - there *is* a neutral  :o but it does work silently.

It is really odd to get it spinning and then change gear, because the pedal rpm alters.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Charlotte on May 04, 2010, 10:51:19 am
It's all Adrian Clancy's fault - he let me ride his Sturmey-fixie after the last FNRttC, damn him!

I've just spoken to the Lovely Derek at Old Bike Trader (http://oldbiketrader.co.uk/contact.htm).  He still has several S3X hubs left in stock (at much more sensible prices than the bandits on eBay) and one of them now has my name on it.

:D
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: clarion on May 04, 2010, 10:55:19 am
Just seen how many of the BRITONS' pounds sterling he requires for such a beast.  Much cheaper than heshebay.

Just lookin', y'know, curiosity, like.  I've not got a cunning plan for a commuting bike.  Ohhhh no!  *shakes head unconvincingly* ;D
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on May 04, 2010, 05:10:31 pm
I rode mine to work today.  SA are going to send me some updated hints for correct cable adjustment, but I think it's correct when the coloured blob (which is rather wide and imprecise) is just about to come out of the axle.  Hasn't slipped again, and I think I may have knocked the lever with my gloved hand when it did.

I have suggested to SA that they should bring out a version of the venerable flick trigger, as these cannot be put into intermediate positions (clever chaps, those 1930s SA engineers  ::-)).  There is definitely a neutral between all gears.

The best thing about it is banging it into the 90" gear for downhills and keeping up with the roadies for once :demon:  52 x 15 is about right, although I also have a 16T.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Adrian on May 04, 2010, 07:41:25 pm
Just seen how many of the BRITONS' pounds sterling he requires for such a beast.  Much cheaper than heshebay.

Just lookin', y'know, curiosity, like.  I've not got a cunning plan for a commuting bike.  Ohhhh no!  *shakes head unconvincingly* ;D

If you want to have a go with mine, give me a shout. Obviously my bike won't fit you, but it will give you a fair idea.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Adrian on May 04, 2010, 08:59:51 pm
On my one I have the handlebar shifter which has three good clicks and, thus far, no gaps or false neutrals. SA describe this shifter as being alternatively useable on the downtube. It is, but not quite as simply as I would have hoped. I have this band on mount courtesy of Mr Nesbitt (Thanks again)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p148/AdrianC_No1/Carlton/099.jpg)

The shifter doesn't quite point the right way though. As you can see the cable doesn't exit the shifter parallel to the downtube, forcing me to use an outer to get the cable to go the right way.

If however the shifter could be mounted so that the cable pointed the right way, when it is in the 3rd gear position, as it is here, the lever would be pointing downwards so far that tou could touch the wheel when changing gear.

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p148/AdrianC_No1/Carlton/IMG_34291.jpg)
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on May 04, 2010, 09:32:45 pm
I run the cable the traditional way - short length of outer to a fulcrum clip, roller at the seat cluster and then down to the indicator chain.

(http://www.peeble.com/s34.jpg)

The shifter is in the LH end of the handlebar.  Given the special indicator, I'd strongly recommend an ordinary SA "porthole" nut so you can fit one of the plastic protectors; then if the bike falls over on its right hand side, the chain is safe.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: matthew on May 04, 2010, 09:38:47 pm
Adrian,

What happens if you try mounting it on the left side of the down tube?

Yes it means the cable is crossing the bottom bracket but does it sort out the cable exit alignment and the gear lever positions? or am I being daft?

Matthew
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Adrian on May 04, 2010, 10:06:29 pm
I'll need to have a look at that.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on May 05, 2010, 08:20:05 pm
Charlotte, the S3X chainline is adjustable from about 41-45mm but you can make it Goldtec-friendly by slipping an extra 1mm spacer (I have one if you need it) under the sprocket.  There is plenty of thread on the lockring to cope.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Charlotte on May 05, 2010, 08:59:36 pm
Cheers, Rog.  I'm going to use it with a Stronglight Mygal chainset and 107mm BB I've just bought from Priceshaggers (On One at eBay).  No idea what the chainline is...
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on May 05, 2010, 09:01:29 pm
A dedicated bike for it?  Must be serious.  I have the option of "real" fixed or S3X.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Charlotte on May 05, 2010, 09:38:16 pm
I'm going to have my old Harry Quinn refinished and use that.  I had to hack the chainset off after the threads stripped, so it looks like there will be a load of shiny new bits...
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Charlotte on May 06, 2010, 10:57:06 am
Another option; for a shorter, cleaner cable run, mount the shifter on the seatstay:

      Flickr: Archive of Pants Pants' uploads to Flickr on 12th January 2010
   
   
 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/reefflop/archives/date-posted/2010/01/12/)

Mind you, for this to work well, you need a rack boss.  I suppose you could find some kind of clamp to do the same job, though...?

Why stop there - what about the seat post?
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: clarion on May 06, 2010, 10:58:32 am
Squee!
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Greenbank on May 06, 2010, 10:59:39 am
 :sick:
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Adrian on May 06, 2010, 06:03:20 pm
Another option; for a shorter, cleaner cable run, mount the shifter on the seatstay:

      Flickr: Archive of Pants Pants' uploads to Flickr on 12th January 2010
   
   
 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/reefflop/archives/date-posted/2010/01/12/)

Mind you, for this to work well, you need a rack boss.  I suppose you could find some kind of clamp to do the same job, though...?

Why stop there - what about the seat post?

That looks good to me. I'm going to have a play with that
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Charlotte on May 09, 2010, 07:56:39 pm
I haz TEH S3X.

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b187/vicechair/S3X/bfd85d2f.jpg)

Moar filthy hub pr0n here (http://bicycleslut.wordpress.com/2010/05/09/sturmey-archer-s3x-unboxed/).

:demon:
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on May 09, 2010, 08:03:40 pm
An important tip:

Build it up, install it into the bike and cautiously ride it up a steep hill in the saddle, expecting it to slip.  This screws the ball ring hard into the hub shell.  Then adjust the bearings using the normal SA technique:

1) Back off both axle cones by several turns.

2) Screw the RH cone in finger tight then back it off no more than half a turn.  Hold the axle (adjustable spanner on the flats - grip it between your knees) and cone so they cannot move, and lock it there with the locknut.  Sadly SA don't use the brilliant tab washer any more, which made RH cone adjustment a breeze.

3) Only now can you adjust the LH cone.  You should aim for infinitesmal play at the rim.  Some SA hubs can be adjusted with zero play if they're unusually good examples.

Mine was too loose after the first ride; I don't think they pay much attention to it at the factory, but if the cone adjustment is incorrect, the false neutrals can be wider than they should be.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Adrian on May 09, 2010, 08:16:38 pm
I haz TEH S3X.



So you had a good long think about it then.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Charlotte on May 09, 2010, 08:40:38 pm
::-)

An important tip:

Good advice, ta  :)
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on May 14, 2010, 07:13:29 pm
135 miles or so, and 2nd gear is pretty much run-in and not very noisy at all.  1st gear is still like a coffee grinder, although the pedals spin for about 12 revs with the wheel off the ground.

Evidence of a lack of efficiency - the hub is slightly warm (compared to the front one) after a ride.  Must be 10W or so being dissipated in there.

I'll take it up to 200 miles, strip, clean and re-grease.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Charlotte on May 19, 2010, 01:14:16 pm
Now that the frame's back from the powdercoaters (http://bicycleslut.wordpress.com/2010/05/19/s3xy-new-frame/) I've got almost everything I need to start building up the bike.  Stooging about on the interwebs, I'm surprised at how few people have actually built one of these so far.  Here's three of them:

All-City | Blog (http://allcitycycles.com/blog/view_entry/3_speed_fixed_big_block/#When:22:13:47Z)

sturmey archer &laquo; Back Alley Bikes (http://backalleybikes.wordpress.com/tag/sturmey-archer/)

Masi Speciale Sprint with Sturmey Archer S3X 3-speed on velospace, the place for bikes (http://velospace.org/node/27897)

I was interested how several builders have used a Surly cable hanger at the seatpost.  If I don't get on with the downtube shifter, SJS sell this, which looks like it might be an elegant solution:

DMR Mech Verter converts bottom pull Derailleurs (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-DMR-DMR-Mech-Verter--Converts-Bottom-Pull-Derailleurs-to-Top-Pull-10815.htm)

I won't get it built up for a couple of weeks, 'cos I'm going on holiday soon.  But rest assured there will be pictures...

Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on May 19, 2010, 02:01:48 pm
A few weeks back, I rode with Philippa Wheeler, who'd fitted one to one of her road/path bikes.  She reckoned it was very similar to the ASC in regards to backlash and she has covered a lot of miles on the ASC.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: clarion on May 19, 2010, 02:02:45 pm
*rubs thighs in lascivious Vic Reeves style*
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Adrian on June 09, 2010, 11:34:03 pm
I met my first fellow on the road S3X rider this morning in Streatham. He had a grey Kogswell and is called Adam. The bike had metal mudguards one of which rattled enough to make the whole thing sound like a threshing machine.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on June 10, 2010, 06:40:07 am
Now that the frame's back from the powdercoaters (http://bicycleslut.wordpress.com/2010/05/19/s3xy-new-frame/) I've got almost everything I need to start building up the bike.  Stooging about on the interwebs, I'm surprised at how few people have actually built one of these so far.  Here's three of them:

All-City | Blog (http://allcitycycles.com/blog/view_entry/3_speed_fixed_big_block/#When:22:13:47Z)

sturmey archer &laquo; Back Alley Bikes (http://backalleybikes.wordpress.com/tag/sturmey-archer/)

Masi Speciale Sprint with Sturmey Archer S3X 3-speed on velospace, the place for bikes (http://velospace.org/node/27897)

I was interested how several builders have used a Surly cable hanger at the seatpost.  If I don't get on with the downtube shifter, SJS sell this, which looks like it might be an elegant solution:

DMR Mech Verter converts bottom pull Derailleurs (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-DMR-DMR-Mech-Verter--Converts-Bottom-Pull-Derailleurs-to-Top-Pull-10815.htm)

I won't get it built up for a couple of weeks, 'cos I'm going on holiday soon.  But rest assured there will be pictures...



As long as you have a normal-sized steel top tube, just get a SA fulcrum clip (not forgetting the insert) and SA roller.  That's how it was done in t'old days.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Charlotte on June 10, 2010, 07:54:52 am
Thanks to the fabulous and splendid offices of one Mr Zachariah* Zoidberg Esq., I am now in possession of a selection of band-on DT bosses, one of which is bound** to offer me the attachment point I need for mounting the shifter.

Should this prove less than adequate, thank you for your advice Mr Z - I'm sure I shall have little problem in sourcing an alternative solution

*Bet you didn't know that was his real name, did you?

**Ba-doom, tish!  D'ya see what I did there?
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on June 17, 2010, 08:37:21 pm
I have my S3X in bits.  Photos when I've cleaned it up, before I regrease and reassemble it.  There are very few parts, and no-one should be scared to strip one.  To do this without damage you need a selection of cone spanners, some small circlip pliers and the Sturmey-Archer ball ring spanner (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Sturmey-Archer-Sturmey-Archer-C-Spanner-for-Hub-Gear-Internals-2805.htm).

One nice thing about a reversible drive is that the mechanism doesn't screw itself so hard into the shell that you need a scaffold pole to unscrew it.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Adrian on June 17, 2010, 08:42:44 pm
An important tip:

Build it up, install it into the bike and cautiously ride it up a steep hill in the saddle, expecting it to slip.  This screws the ball ring hard into the hub shell.  Then adjust the bearings using the normal SA technique:

1) Back off both axle cones by several turns.

2) Screw the RH cone in finger tight then back it off no more than half a turn.  Hold the axle (adjustable spanner on the flats - grip it between your knees) and cone so they cannot move, and lock it there with the locknut.  Sadly SA don't use the brilliant tab washer any more, which made RH cone adjustment a breeze.

3) Only now can you adjust the LH cone.  You should aim for infinitesmal play at the rim.  Some SA hubs can be adjusted with zero play if they're unusually good examples.

Mine was too loose after the first ride; I don't think they pay much attention to it at the factory, but if the cone adjustment is incorrect, the false neutrals can be wider than they should be.

Does this mean that, unlike a "normal" hub, the the cones each side are independent of each other?
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on June 17, 2010, 08:49:32 pm
No, they're not, but only the RH cone determines how tight the internals are; it's compressing them against something immovable (generally a stop on the axle).  There has to be clearance between the internals for them to rotate freely at different speeds, and to allow lubricant to penetrate.

The Sturmey-Archer grease for the internals is interesting stuff - it's a dark brown grease and oil mix, and can actually flow (slowly).  The SRAM IGH grease is very stiff, like toothpaste.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Adrian on June 17, 2010, 09:51:59 pm
Ah right.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on June 18, 2010, 10:28:50 pm
Ok, this is what's inside (clickness for bigness)

(http://www.peeble.com/s3xpartssmall.jpg) (http://www.peeble.com/s3xparts.jpg)

This is the axle key.  The LH dog is quite shiny already, although it doesn't really show up in the photo.

(http://www.peeble.com/s3xaxlekey.jpg)

This is the slot in which it slides - notice the wear.


(http://www.peeble.com/s3xaxleslot.jpg)
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Charlotte on June 18, 2010, 10:32:06 pm
Cool.  Although I doubt I'll be doing it to mine.

Do you ever put them back together and wonder why you have a bit left over?
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on June 18, 2010, 10:34:05 pm
If you ignore the sprocket, spacers and lockring and the axle fittings, you'll see that actually there are only ten internal parts  :)
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Tim Hall on June 18, 2010, 10:34:42 pm
"And this is the piling swivel, Which in your case you have not got."

I ran a quiz at the Tandem Club rally.  For the "table top" bit, every team was presented with an exploded view of a Sram 3 x 7 hub and list of parts in alphabetical order.  They just had to match the part to the position on the diagram.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on June 18, 2010, 10:36:56 pm
I find SRAMs more confusing.  They like their circlips, do the Germans.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on June 19, 2010, 08:57:37 pm
Update: it's much quieter after its service, probably because it has more of the brown runny grease inside.  Not as much of a rattle in top, and less coffee grinder noise in 1st.  Couldn't make it slip up the steepest hill in the village, and it shifts much more easily; it used to stick a bit going into top.  Whether this will persist as the grease gets displaced from the axle slot, I'll have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Charlotte on June 19, 2010, 08:58:25 pm
So for those of us not willing to strip the whole thing down (I'm too scared of pingfuckits) do we just schlosh a load of new jollop in there?
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on June 19, 2010, 09:00:02 pm
There are no pingfuckits.  Honestly.  This does not apply to any other SA hub though!
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: woollypigs on June 19, 2010, 09:04:01 pm
I had a go on a fixie today that had the 3 speed hub, now I want one. What are they going for now ?
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on June 19, 2010, 09:37:11 pm
About £180.  They're not actually worth it once you see what's inside (it's a hack of the X-RF5), but they're unique.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Butterfly on June 20, 2010, 04:09:23 pm
"And this is the piling swivel, Which in your case you have not got."



One of Clarion's very favourite poems.  ;D

'They call it easing the spring'.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: clarion on June 20, 2010, 08:35:33 pm
Roger, shouldn't this kind of material be kept to the Not Safe For Work board? :P ;)
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: TimO on June 21, 2010, 11:39:40 am
There are no pingfuckits.  Honestly.  This does not apply to any other SA hub though!

I guess all the pingfuckits are the freewheel pawls, and there shouldn't be any in this.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Tim Hall on June 21, 2010, 04:42:39 pm
"And this is the piling swivel, Which in your case you have not got."



One of Clarion's very favourite poems.  ;D

'They call it easing the spring'.

He's a man of taste (just look who he's getting married to).

The round I mentioned up there ^ in the Tandem Club Quiz was entitled "The Naming of Parts". I'm pleased to say at least one person understood the reference. We're very araldite erudite in the TC y'know.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: itsbruce on August 04, 2010, 10:33:45 am
I was in Edwardes in Camberwell, the other day, and noticed they have a Charge Plug fitted with an S3X hanging in the window.  Very tempted to try it out (to get a feel for both the Plug and the S3X) but I can't afford to buy it right now.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: clarion on September 26, 2010, 10:08:32 pm
Courtesy of the kind generosity of a forummer, I have now had the opportunity to try an S3X (just round the block for now, but I shall be trying it out for a commute).

The lash is interesting, and I had to try hard to stop my brain telling me my chain was loose.  :-\

The change is nice & positive.  I like that.  I wish it had a trigger, but there you go - can't have everything.

Once you get the idea, it starts to feel like a SEEKRIT WEPPUN. :demon:

Should be a blast tomorrow. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Bledlow on April 07, 2011, 09:09:34 pm
"And this is the piling swivel, Which in your case you have not got."
So . . .  you did that at school, too?  ;D
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: itsbruce on April 08, 2011, 08:27:23 am
Why leave it to school?  It's a lovely poem to read in the Spring of any year.  Or any time you want to be reminded of Spring, while caught up in gloomier times/work.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: robgul on May 29, 2011, 10:33:52 am
I'm increasingly tempted to build my new fixed with one of these - BUT I'd really like to have a try with one - none of the shops around me have a bike to try.

So, is there anyone within reasonable striking distance of Stratford-upon-Avon that has such a machine that I might have a spin on please?   (Ideally to ride 15 - 20 miles - not necessarily hills, just to get the idea of changing and the ratios)

I'm tall, 6'4", but for a test I could probably ride any size and find out whether it's for me or not.

Thanks

Rob
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on May 29, 2011, 11:13:37 am
You can borrow mine if you like.  The cable stops clip on.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Adrian on June 22, 2011, 08:14:07 pm
I have just geared mine down a bit from 48x16 to 48x18. Leaving it in the top gear before meant that I was never getting up to speed between each set of lights. With the lower gearing it feels much more like a proper fixie.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Adrian on September 16, 2012, 12:58:35 pm
Hey Roger did you feel it when TJ split your rim?(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p148/AdrianC_No1/IMAG0823.jpg)
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: clarion on September 16, 2012, 04:59:12 pm
;D  I worked Roger's rim hard.  I kept pounding away till it just couldn't take any more.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on September 16, 2012, 05:21:53 pm
Is that the Open Pro?  I always knew they sucked.  Impressive wear for less than a year, though - I never ran a brake on it, so it was "as new".

The ceramic front rim on my commuting fixie has easily paid for itself after three winters.  I got it in a sale and only paid about £40; I'd easily have trashed one conventional rim by now.  It doesn't even wear the brake pads much now that it's run-in - it's had the same pair of Swisstop blue pads for 18 months and they're only about 1/4 down.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: clarion on September 16, 2012, 05:27:14 pm
It is the Open Pro, and I can't complain about Mavic.  I've put a lot of miles into that wheel, and it's my bloody stupid fault for not keeping a closer eye on the wear.  Oh - and it took 55km of mostly off-road riding (and then sitting in the sun) from the split being noticed to it actually failing.  I was honking up hills in the dark with a camping load and praying that it would hold.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: clarion on March 13, 2017, 10:04:05 am
Am I the only person in the world still riding with an S3X? ;D

Spoke failure on the tourer forced me back onto the fixed for commuting, and I love it! :D :D :D

I did have a scary moment when it went to Brixton Cycles for a service, and the chap rang me to say it was probably dead as it had a load of water in it, mixed with swarf :o

I established that the iron filings were from the badly engaging gears when I was using the SA indexed lever, and he bathed the workings in oil as a last ditch attempt.  To his surprise and delight, it came up lovely, and was reassembled.  He wasn't convinced about using a friction lever, so I gave in and said he could fit an indexed one.  LSS, he rang me the next day to say he'd gone back to the friction lever.

Bit of a tweak at the weekend to re-splay the brake levers which he had 'straightened' (tbf, I hadn't explained), and the cockpit is pretty much perfect. 

Could do with some better legs, but, all in all, it's been good and surprisingly quick :)
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on March 15, 2017, 11:51:00 am
The ASC is a lot nicer to ride but has the same "will it/won't it" bottom gear issue, which makes hill climbing a nervy affair.  In fact, the way to adjust an ASC is just to get the cable ultra-tight in bottom gear, and let the others look after themselves.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: clarion on March 15, 2017, 01:41:25 pm
I no longer have any concerns about finding the gears on the S3X.  The Shimano lever I use coincidentally has just the right length of throw that, if the cable is *just* slack in top, the bottom gear engages neatly at the other end.  Of course, it's possible to engage neutral if you want to, but you're not forced abruptly into it by rogue indexing.

Pleased* to hear the ASC is running well.

* and a little jealous
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on March 23, 2017, 09:51:00 pm
The ASC is a far more complex design - there are two epicyclics, one of which is only used to rotate the primary sun gear slowly in the direction of the drive to narrow the gear ratio in middle gear.  It's ingenious and doesn't sap much power; SA used to trumpet the slow speed of the internals as a major contributor to efficiency.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: clarion on March 24, 2017, 03:46:00 pm
That's clever!
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: Gattopardo on March 25, 2017, 11:53:53 am
So what are the prices or should I convert a 3 speed hub?
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: rogerzilla on March 28, 2017, 09:24:09 am
An S3X is about £200, I think, with shifter.  An ASC is more than that without the (incredibly rare) shifter, although any SA 4 speed shifter can be converted to an ASC shifter if you have access to a grinder.  Most ASCs are 40 hole, which is a PITA these days, and getting a complete one with the right indicator and toggle chain is tricky.

To be honest, neither of them are all that satisfactory due to the lash and the presence of false neutrals.  The ASC is preferable as it's quieter, has closer ratios, and is more efficient, but you'll never quite trust low gear when climbing out of the saddle.  Could a better one be designed? Undoubtedly, but the R&D costs would be horrendous for such a small-volume item.  Both ASC and S3X are based on existing 4- or 5-speed models to save miney.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: aeolus on March 28, 2017, 09:40:43 pm
I  have a S3X on my old fixed bike (1965 Viking) and another on a newer bike - when i got the bike shop to build up the wheel they supplied the normal Sturmey shifter (having they said checked with their supplier) - it never really worked satisfactorily  in bottom gear and I replaced it with the S3X shifter (which has a greater pull length for bottom gear) and that resolved the problem - I do honk up hills so i now think I should be worried !

The back lash is the biggest let down for me as it lacks the sweeter motion of basic fixed.

I have another spare one from e bay built into a 700 rim if anyone in the area wants to try one (just South of Bristol).

Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: clarion on March 29, 2017, 09:56:50 am
The lash is a bit agricultural, but you do get used to it - and use it, funnily enough.
Title: Re: Sturmey-Archer S3X 3-speed fixed - who's interested?
Post by: clarion on June 14, 2017, 04:06:24 pm
I have been out on my S3X Solo in the last few days, and it is gorgeously liberating! :)