Yet Another Cycling Forum

Off Topic => The Pub => Topic started by: Charlotte on April 29, 2010, 11:47:48 pm

Title: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: Charlotte on April 29, 2010, 11:47:48 pm
I've just been trying to get some help from Three's live customer support...

Quote
Thanks for contacting us. An operator will be with you shortly.
Please note this service is for online store queries only.
We are unable to deal with customer service queries or queries regarding existing contracts or upgrades.


[Charlotte] Where's the mobile internet fair use policy?
[Darshan] Hi Charlotte, welcome to 3 :)
[Darshan] Sure I will be glad to help you with your query.
[Charlotte] Hi. Can you please show me the fair use policy for internet use with a mobile phone?
[Darshan]  Do you have a query about an existing account or are you planning to join 3?

[Charlotte] I'm thinking of buying a phone from you. I'd like to know what your "fair use" policy is for using the internet on it.
[Darshan] May I know which handset and priceplan are you planning to order online today ?
[Darshan] 1GB is the fair use for internet addon which comes with pur deals
[Charlotte] The HTC Desire - on a £35/month plan.
[Darshan] That's a fantastic plan, excellent choice :)

[Charlotte] Is that a hard limit or a soft one, as per T-mobile where they don't whack you if you bump it by a tiny amount?
[Charlotte] ...might be easier if you just link me to the policy and let me read it myself.
[Darshan] you get 750 cross network, anytime minutes and unlimited texts [Fair usage of 4000 texts] for UK along with unlimited internet and email [Fair usage of 1GB] plus unlimited 3 to 3 minutes [Fair usage of 2000 minutes] and free Skype to Skype calls for just £35/month including VAT.

# [Darshan] features of HTC esire are, Supports a 32GB MicroSD card
# Wi-Fi
# 5MP Camera with LED Flash
# GPS

[Darshan] *desire
[Darshan]

As you are ordering a contract phone today, I can give you a promotional code for a free accessories voucher worth £20. So would you like to have the promo code?

 

[Charlotte] Yeah, that's great - I can find that out for myself. Can you just link me to the fair use policy?
[Charlotte] And no - I don't want the hard sell if it's all the same...
[Darshan] [Fair usage of 1GB] for using internet every month.
[Charlotte] http:// www...?
[Darshan] Sure, let me give you the promo code as well as the procedure to use it

Once you’re on the your basket page step 1,

 

 
Please enter the code HS29041023 in the box next to the Entrust logo and     click on update

You need to enter the promo code (manually) on the checkout page (step1) which comes before you enter all your personal details which is (step2)

 

 
[Charlotte] Sorry - I don't think you understand me. I don't want your promo code, I want to know where I can read the fair use policy. For myself. Without any kind of hard sell. Would that be okay?
[Darshan] when you click o Plan detail you will firnd the info about fair use policy for internet addon.
[Charlotte] Please will you give me the link to the small print?
[Darshan] when you click on the Plan deal tab besides the magnifying glass icon on the £35 internet texter deal then you will see the fais use polcy for internet usage.
[Darshan] Did you find it ?
[Charlotte] I've done that. In fact, I did it before I started this chat. The text says "All unlimited offers are subject to fair use policy" So I'd like to know what that fair use policy is. Please will you link me to the document so I can read it for myself.
[Darshan] you get 750 cross network, anytime minutes and unlimited texts [Fair usage of 4000 texts] for UK along with unlimited internet and email [Fair usage of 1GB] plus unlimited 3 to 3 minutes [Fair usage of 2000 minutes] and free Skype to Skype calls for just £35/month including VAT.


[Charlotte] Yes, I know that. But I would like you to link me to the document on your site (which I can't seem to find) that explains all of this. The small print. Terms and conditions. The legal stuff. Can you do that Darshan?
[Darshan] Charlotte, you will only find it when you click on the plan details TAB
[Charlotte] I'VE DONE THAT. I did it twice in fact. Just to see if it had changed whilst we were having this delightful little chat. Even on the second occasion, it didn't contain a fair use policy - just a reference to one. So, before I comitt to paying you £35 a month for the next two years, I'd rather like to read that policy. In full. So how's about you give me a URL where I can read it?
[Darshan] That is the only place wher you can check the info of this deal.
[Charlotte] So you want me to enter into a deal with you, but you're unable to supply me with the terms and conditions of that deal prior to me signing on the virtual dotted line then? Where are the contractual documents? I can find them on the T-Mobile site, the Orange site and the Vodaphone site.
[Charlotte] Look - We've been at this for the best part of fifteen minutes and I've yet to get the information that I wanted. Which means that as a potential customer, I'm having my time wasted. Do you think this is likely to make me feel all warm and fuzzy about wanting to buy a phone from you?
[Darshan] Charlotte, the info you need is only mentioned on the price plan details tab
[Darshan] Also the info which i have given you is 100% right so you can be rest assured as you are right now on the official website of 3 and info about unlimited texts (4000 fair use ) is right.
[Charlotte] So you're saying that you'd like me to enter into a valuable contract with you, but you're unable to show me the details of that contract? Is that right, Darshan?
[Charlotte] You're happy to offer me promotional codes, but you're not so keen to let me read the fine print, are you? Looking at the layout of your site, it's almost as if Three doesn't want people to find the contractual documentation. At best, it's not very user friendly, is it?
[Charlotte] Hello?
[Charlotte] Are you still there?
[Darshan] Charlotte, if you want you can even print this chat as a proof as the info which i have give you is 100% right.
[Charlotte] It may be 100% right - I'm not disputing that! What it's not, by any stretch of the imagination is 100% complete.
[Charlotte] For instance - if I go to T-Mobile, I can read their full Fair Use Policy here:
[Charlotte] Fair Use Plans - Our Services - T-Mobile (http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/uk/fairuse/?WT.mc_id=fup)
[Charlotte] It tells me what happens (and more importantly how much I have to pay) when I exceed the limits. You don't seem to have anything nearly as comprehensive.
[Charlotte] So what happens if I exceed my useage limits on Three? How am I to know, because I can't read the full Fair Use Policy for your nextwork!
[Charlotte] So unless you can show me this small print now, I am extraordinarily unlikely to want to enter into a contract with you. Let alone to take advantage of some kind of promotional code. Would that seem fair to you, Darshan?
[Darshan] I apologise for your inconvenience and I will pass on the feeback to our supervisor so they can work on it and in future no other customer will go through same trouble of finding info about the fair use on our website.
[Charlotte] So you can't help me is what you're saying?
[Charlotte] Dear Gods this is tedious. I've been tryign to get this information from you for half an hour on and off. Half an hour! It would have been quicker to walk into town and go to the Three shop there!
[Charlotte] Well, not only will I not be buying a phone from you; I'll be telling people on the internet all about this. So you've not just lost a sale from one person, but potentially from a whole bunch of people.
[Charlotte] I would say thank you for your help, but that would be a bit of a half-truth, wouldn't it? Have a pleasant evening, Darshan.
[Darshan]

I have tried to my level best to help you with all the info you needed as it was not available so I gave you what all you will get with the deal so you can be aware of what is offered in the deal.

[Charlotte] There we go - now you can read what people have to say about all of this:
[Charlotte] Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three... (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=32659)
[Charlotte] Night-night!
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: Torslanda on April 29, 2010, 11:54:43 pm
If you would just like to step over there you will find someone holding your frying pan.

Please feel free to put it to some good use . . .

And breathe . . .
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: Kim on April 30, 2010, 12:01:38 am
I think they just failed the Turing Test...
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: Jaded on April 30, 2010, 12:22:41 am
I had major fun with Three and got out of my contract early.

I'd never touch them
or their overseas, only active at 8:00am on a Sunday call centres again
or their debt collection agencies.

again.
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: spen666 on April 30, 2010, 01:05:14 am
Charlotte, were you having a blonde night?

You were not expecting customer service to help you surely?

That's not their role
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: Charlotte on April 30, 2010, 08:02:47 am
Charlotte, were you having a blonde night?

You were not expecting customer service to help you surely?

That's not their role

What is their role, Spen?
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: Eccentrica Gallumbits on April 30, 2010, 08:26:16 am
What terrible service. I'll be changing my phone and looking for a new contract towards the end of the year, but I won't be going to Three. I'll go to another company which can answer easy questions.
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: perpetual dan on April 30, 2010, 08:37:20 am
Yes, getting a straight answer with them is hard, they have a sales script (and presumably commission) and not much more. I found the phrase "maybe I'll call back later" worked well.
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: Adrian on April 30, 2010, 08:40:45 am
Charlotte, were you having a blonde night?

You were not expecting customer service to help you surely?

That's not their role

What is their role, Spen?

In this case the job title is misleading and their role to help the company shift the phone.
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: andygates on April 30, 2010, 08:47:21 am
Ah, the old "you cannot hang up on a potential customer" rule.  Poor git.

Surely you need unlimited data?  Any sort of limit on these phones is a hobble.
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: Charlotte on April 30, 2010, 08:52:38 am
Exactly.  This is what I wanted to ascertain.

All the networks engage in the insidious practice of moderating their "unlimited" deals with a Fair Use Policy.  Discounting Three now (for they are clearly cockwombles) it would appear that only T-mobile offer a "soft limit" on their Fair Use Policy data allowance.  The rest of them use it as an excuse to bill you to fuck at something like a quid per fifteen meg.  Couple of hundred quid for watching a few YouTube videos anyone?  It happens depressingly often if the complaints I've read on various flora are to be believed.

Mind you, I reckon you'd have to go some to chew through more than a gig a month onna phone.
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: Jaded on April 30, 2010, 08:57:24 am
unless you get an iPhone from O2
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: tiermat on April 30, 2010, 09:00:26 am
unless you get an iPhone from O2

Evewn the O2 "unlimited" internet plan has it's fair usage policy...
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: Adrian on April 30, 2010, 09:10:17 am

Mind you, I reckon you'd have to go some to chew through more than a gig a month onna phone.

A few hours of video would do it for you. Depends on whether or not you are likely to do that.
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: woollypigs on April 30, 2010, 09:24:08 am
I'm on O2 and use it heavily (email/web and the odd video) and they haven't complained/charged extra at all.
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: Oscar's dad on April 30, 2010, 09:25:58 am
I work for a mobile network so know a little about this.  

If a network publishes overage charges you can be sure that they will charge you if you exceed the fair use policy.  If there are no overage charges published the chances are you won't get charged if you exceed the FUP by a little bit.

Assuming there are no published overage charges and you exceed the FUP consistently the network will probably contact you and ask why you've exceeded the FUP, basically they want to ensure you haven't connected the phone to a server.  Depending on what you tell them they might insist you upgrade to a more expensive tariff with a more generous FUP.

The key is to ensure you use the device for what it is intended to do.  So, if you get a PDA type data tariff you should be fine if you are just browsing and e-mailing off the device.  If you connect the device to your laptop and use it as a mobile broadband modem you might have a problem with the FUP unless you choose a tethering type tariff.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: Tewdric on April 30, 2010, 09:33:24 am
Charlotte, were you having a blonde night?

You were not expecting customer service to help you surely?

That's not their role

What is their role, Spen?

Minimising the cost to the business of disgruntled customers of course - Spen's right for once!  ;D
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: andygates on April 30, 2010, 09:45:48 am
In this case the cost matches the profit at nil.
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on April 30, 2010, 09:58:41 am
I read that exchange wondering if  you were actually communicating with a modern version of Elisa. Wow.
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: fred the great on April 30, 2010, 10:05:36 am
I hope they paid for your call :demon:
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: Charlotte on April 30, 2010, 10:33:30 am
It wasn't a call, Lawrence.  It was an online chat session.  Do you really think I bothered to type it all in?

::-)
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: Hummers on April 30, 2010, 10:47:19 am
The fact that you were unable to review the terms and conditions prior to contract is poor and you are wise to be wary as 3 have a track record of under-delivery and over-selling.

On the other  hand, call centre folk all around the world have this: |< >| to work with.

Who else feels a degree of sympathy for poor Darshan?  ;D

H
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: DrMekon on April 30, 2010, 10:52:41 am
I know there is one online somewhere, 'cos I've read it.

I've gone over the 1gb limit, and it's a soft limit, I think. You get warnings, but at least up to the extra I went over, I wasn't charged or cut off.

Still can't recommend Three. The packet data connect from whatever part of the network allows me to connect, and both my Three phones report it as a strong connection, but for the last week, no data is being transferred (and no, I didn't go over the limit ;) ).
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: clarion on April 30, 2010, 10:56:40 am
...call centre folk all around the world have this: |< >| to work with.

Who else feels a degree of sympathy for poor Darshan?  ;D

H

Many of us will have been a Darshan at some point.  Though I think you will find that the freedom of action is more like this ><
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: fred the great on April 30, 2010, 11:38:19 am
Fair use policy?

My goodness, I hope the Thai's don't cotton on to that crap :demon:

Here we just pay for our actual calls, either pre-paid or post paid and similar for Internet usage. The packages are slightly different from each provider but nothing to get excited about. My package for phone calls only is 2 pennies per minute including VAT and to anywhere in Thailand :thumbsup:

Overseas I use Skype.
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: Mr Larrington on April 30, 2010, 11:53:34 am
I've just been trying to get some help from Three's live customer support...

{snip}


Le Creuset cookware fuckin' rocks, d00d.
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: Charlotte on April 30, 2010, 11:56:34 am
It has a mighty heft behind it, I agree.  But cast iron can be a little frangible, I find.  When you positively, absolutely have to SPANG IN THE FACE every last motherfucker in the room, I tend to prefer to use a light alloy.

Less need to properly season first, too  :)
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: Bledlow on April 30, 2010, 12:45:53 pm
What about stainless steel? A bit more heft, but not prone to shattering.
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: clarion on April 30, 2010, 12:47:18 pm
Gotta say, those Le Creusets have a mighty long handle on.  Gets a good speed up on the swing.
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on April 30, 2010, 12:47:49 pm
Stainless commercial frying pan with aluminum base. 24" diameter, needs a strong wrist to wield it. The matching lid can decapitate at 20paces, when thrown correctly.
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: Regulator on April 30, 2010, 01:01:42 pm
I have to say I've found O2 good...

...and Virgin wasn't bad either.
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: Bledlow on April 30, 2010, 01:10:58 pm
Do they make frying pans?  ???
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: perpetual dan on April 30, 2010, 01:54:31 pm
I have to say I've found O2 good...

I gave up on O2 when they were able to give me phone and sim and take money for same with a voice and data package, but their provisioning refused to actually enable my account on the network. Surely limits on me getting el-cheapo voice with sensibly priced data is a sales decision and to be refused in the shop, not once I've got it home.
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: Charlotte on April 30, 2010, 01:56:45 pm
They're all bastards.  Lovely when you want to sign up, but utter, utter bottom-feeders when you want to leave, change, or do anything else up to and including actually making phone calls.

Apart from Three.  They would appear to be bastards the whole time.

Which at least, I suppose, is consistant if nothing else.
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: Valiant on April 30, 2010, 02:31:52 pm
When I looked into phone and data for my mobile, having read the small print and then also actual accounts I found o2's Simplicity plan best. £15 a month (1 year contract) for 600 minutes, unlimited texts and unlimited data. Of which the consensus, you can go over fair use but you only get charged if it's consistent.

Anyways, best advise I will give you, don't touch 3, even with someone else's bargepole.
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: Regulator on April 30, 2010, 02:35:57 pm
They're all bastards.  Lovely when you want to sign up, but utter, utter bottom-feeders when you want to leave, change, or do anything else up to and including actually making phone calls.

Apart from Three.  They would appear to be bastards the whole time.

Which at least, I suppose, is consistant if nothing else.

I have to say, that when Jon and I moved from Virgin to O2 we didn't have a problem with Virgin.  We got our PACs straight away when we asked.

They did ask why we were moving, and when we explained it was to get the iPhone, there wasn't any attempt to get us to stay with hard sell.  We both got a nice letter a few days later saying they were sorry we had left and if we ever wanted to come back, just give us a ring and they'd resurrect our accounts, so we'd get the same loyalty deals, etc.
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: peterh on April 30, 2010, 05:49:22 pm
When I looked into phone and data for my mobile, having read the small print and then also actual accounts I found o2's Simplicity plan best. £15 a month (1 year contract) for 600 minutes, unlimited texts and unlimited data. Of which the consensus, you can go over fair use but you only get charged if it's consistent.

Anyways, best advise I will give you, don't touch 3, even with someone else's bargepole.

Sounds like I did the same research - I've just moved to a Simplicity deal with O2.  All I have to do now is get a PAC from Carphone Warehouse (which apparently can be difficult!)

On the other hand, I'm using it with PAYG HTC Desire I bought from 3  :D (but that only involved spending 5 mins in one of their shops)
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: DuncanM on April 30, 2010, 10:13:00 pm
I'm with 3.

I took great pleasure in calling them at upgrade time and asking about N900s (they didn't have them, they won't have them, and for a while, they wouldn't even work with 3 SIMs) :).  And then about free super cheap phones with the contract I'm on (£5 a month for the calls/texts I use due to some discount they gave me ages ago).  After making 3 or 4 calls, asking the indian sales droid awkward questions, I renewed my £5 a month contract for 12 months, and they gave me a phone which I sold for £50. The commission on that must have been pitiful. :)

I have the 1GB internet add on (so my total phone bill is £10 a month), which I used extensively during my 2 week stay in hospital.  If the 3.5G coverage is available, you can get reasonable data transfer rates, but otherwise it is pitifully slow, and the coverage isn't always great (my new office only has O2 coverage:()  What they told me when I ordered it was that there was a sort of soft cut off - you wouldn't get billed if you went above it, but that there was a limit and that they would basically cut your data connection off until your next bill period started.

I mainly use WiFi at home and at friends houses, so it's not really an issue for me.
Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: andrewc on April 30, 2010, 10:36:14 pm
The fact that you were unable to review the terms and conditions prior to contract is poor and you are wise to be wary as 3 have a track record of under-delivery and over-selling.

On the other  hand, call centre folk all around the world have this: |< >| to work with.

Who else feels a degree of sympathy for poor Darshan?  ;D

H

Me*. He may well not have access to the information or may be under instructions not to reveal it.  Just another poor spod trying to earn a living ...not his fault his employers are useless bastards..

I deal with India a lot. Most of the order entry work for the service I deal with is done there. At first they were completely process driven, if it wasn't in the A4 folder of instructions it didn't happen. Over the last 3 years I've sullied & contaminated them , now it's JFDI & sort the paperwork out later....... ;D    So of course we've had a re-tendering exercise and the contract has gone to a cheaper company  >:(

Don't get me started on the process writers I have to deal with  :facepalm:

*  I'm worse than Darshan,  I was once one of the people who'd phone you up & try to sell you something..... :-[

Title: Re: Why you shouldn't buy a phone from Three...
Post by: tonycollinet on April 30, 2010, 11:53:42 pm
Why isn't trading standards, or ofcom all over companies calling stuff "unlimited" when it is very clearly limited?