Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Freewheeling => Racing => Topic started by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on May 20, 2010, 09:48:36 am

Title: Landis comes clean!
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on May 20, 2010, 09:48:36 am
He has owned up at last (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/20052010/58/tour-de-france-landis-admits-doping.html)
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: David Martin on May 20, 2010, 12:10:19 pm
Oh what an ironic thread title!

The lab work was still shoddy though..
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Rhys W on May 20, 2010, 12:21:46 pm
This is a man who spent several years and hundreds of thousands of dollars (including money he begged from "fans") denying he doped. Now he says he did it all along. He is not a credible witness.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Torslanda on May 20, 2010, 12:37:48 pm
C*cksmokin' MO'FO!

I suppose we shouldn't have expected anything different but FFS!
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on May 20, 2010, 12:49:12 pm
Welcome to the real world.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 20, 2010, 12:57:47 pm
He's trying to take Armstrong and Bruyneel with him claiming him as the supplier
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Rich753 on May 20, 2010, 01:17:55 pm
McQuaid wants to sue him for suggesting that the UCI took cash for cover-ups!

FFS!!!
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: vorsprung on May 20, 2010, 01:47:31 pm
I find this story a bit odd

What does Landis have to gain from accusing others?  Not much
Was Landis' career over? It is now
Is this the first time that someone has said that Lance is a dope? no, so where is the novelty value?

Doesn't make sense
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: TimO on May 20, 2010, 02:11:09 pm
The Wall Street Journal (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703691804575255410855321120.html) article has more information about the various claims.  I suspect he's going to be in a world of pain over the various allegations, if those who he claims are involved in doping, including Armstrong, Bruyneel, Hincapie, Rihs, Leipheimer and Zabriskie, deny it, and decide to take him to court over these claims.

As others have said, if it's his word against there's, and he has provable lied, repeatedly on this subject. He could find he's sued out of existence.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 20, 2010, 02:21:55 pm
One wonders whether he hasn't been paid to keep quiet. Should be an interesting few days...
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Rhys W on May 20, 2010, 02:25:46 pm
Full text here (http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=7473).

The lawyers will be rubbing their hands with glee at this one:

Quote
[Armstrong] later, while winning the Tour de Swiss, the month before the Tour de France, tested positive for EPO at which point he and Mr Bruyneel flew to the UCI headquarters and made a financial agreement with Mr. Vrubrugen (sic) to keep the positive test hidden.

Quote
There are many many more details that I have in diaries and am in the process of writing into an intelligible story

Ah, right, it's publicity for a book deal.

Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: vorsprung on May 20, 2010, 02:38:27 pm
One wonders whether he hasn't been paid to keep quiet. Should be an interesting few days...

I wonder if the email is real

Will we be hearing "the email isn't real but I am writing a fantastic book" from Landis?
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Seineseeker on May 20, 2010, 02:39:53 pm
Can we retrieve all those threads where people (some here) defended Landis ad nauseum? Blah, blah the lab made a mistake etc. etc. The evidence was overwhelming.

It's not going to have any friends left if he goes telling on the others, especially if one of them is Armstrong. It's way too late for that.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: clarion on May 20, 2010, 02:47:39 pm
OMG!  Who knew?

*yawn*

Actually, he's such a liar, I'm not sure if I believe him now... ;D
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: citoyen on May 20, 2010, 02:57:04 pm
This is a man who spent several years and hundreds of thousands of dollars (including money he begged from "fans") denying he doped. Now he says he did it all along. He is not a credible witness.

My thoughts entirely. Whether or not he's telling the truth, he can't be taken seriously.

d.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: andygates on May 20, 2010, 03:02:58 pm
Bitter, money-grabbing attention-seeking little toad, IMO.

I still loved that breakaway.  It was epic, even if the man was so full of pills he rattled.

But there's a way to take your lumps with dignity, and really, its "not like Floyd Landis."
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Wascally Weasel on May 20, 2010, 03:05:27 pm
I still loved that breakaway.

Indeed, that was awesome, even if somewhat assisted.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Zoidburg on May 20, 2010, 03:10:26 pm
I still loved that breakaway.

Indeed, that was awesome, even if somewhat assisted.
There lies the rub I think.

It's how they keep getting away with it, people want to believe in the glory.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: clarion on May 20, 2010, 03:12:40 pm
As it was happening, I felt a bit :sick: knowing what was afoot.  OK, suspecting, but you know what I mean, and it really spoiled a race and nearly destroyed a piece of cycling heritage.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: David Martin on May 20, 2010, 03:21:29 pm
Can we retrieve all those threads where people (some here) defended Landis ad nauseum? Blah, blah the lab made a mistake etc. etc. The evidence was overwhelming.


Please make a distinction between the lab work being poor (which it was and if you want me to go into exhaustive detail then I will as it is close enough to my area of expertise that I can make sense of the minutiae) and claiming Landis was innocent.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: andygates on May 20, 2010, 04:21:13 pm
I find it hilarious (and telling) that he's upset because they detected the wrong banned substance.  It shows that when a person turns to the Dark Side, not just the training and dosage (and PCT and so on) become part of the game, but so is the evasion of detection.  WADA become another foe like an opposing team or an injury, to be planned around and defeated if possible.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: David Martin on May 20, 2010, 04:38:54 pm
I find it hilarious (and telling) that he's upset because they detected the wrong banned substance.  It shows that when a person turns to the Dark Side, not just the training and dosage (and PCT and so on) become part of the game, but so is the evasion of detection.  WADA become another foe like an opposing team or an injury, to be planned around and defeated if possible.

Again, look at the science. The detection was incredibly poor. Right man, wrong reason and wrong reasoning. In the end though the correct result but process, sadly, suffered.

..d
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Rich753 on May 20, 2010, 05:21:42 pm
WADA And UCI Issue Statements On Landis Confession | Cyclingnews.com (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wada-and-uci-issue-statements-on-landis-confession)

I find it slightly depressing that while WADA say "thanks, we'll look into this", the UCI say "guys coming out now with things like this from the past is only damaging the sport"
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 20, 2010, 05:24:56 pm
That's because he is saying they took money to hush up an Armstrong positive.

Well, he did give them half a million to pay for a new dope-detecting machine.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Seineseeker on May 20, 2010, 06:33:43 pm
Let's face it, we just accept the doping from the last twenty years.

Don't know why he is taking on Armstrong, it's not going to stick.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 20, 2010, 06:35:09 pm
Armstrong speaks:

Armstrong Rejects Landis Allegations | Cyclingnews.com (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstrong-rejects-landis-allegations)
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: gonzo on May 20, 2010, 09:16:01 pm
Can we retrieve all those threads where people (some here) defended Landis ad nauseum? Blah, blah the lab made a mistake etc. etc. The evidence was overwhelming.

I feel quite sorry for the guy. I suspect that he was on something, but not what they caught him for.

Do I win a prize?
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: David Martin on May 20, 2010, 11:31:48 pm
Actually the interview with his coach (at the time) was interesting. They had worked out that the peloton would be riding in temperatures of 110F. If he could keep his body cool he could hold them off on such a route. So they filled the team car with bottles of iced water. You don't get that much iced water in a team car by chance - it was a stupendous amount.
He then rode a constant pace - not amazingly fast but not slow. The peloton let him go (riding piano) and then couldn't catch him. What was amazing was not the performance but the differential making the performance look exceptional.

Something like 40-50 bidons of iced water poured over him during the stage..

Interesting physiology - wouldn't surprise me if Team Sky haven't looked at similar..

..d
 
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Si on May 21, 2010, 09:16:20 am
My take on it was that he'd finally realised that he wasn't going to convince everyone that he was innocent, so he is now trying to justify his actions by saying everyone else was cheating too (the big boys made me do it).

I've no idea if everyone else was cheating or not, if they were/are cheating then I think that they should he outed.  But I'd bet that when Landis says this he's not saying it for the good of the sport.

Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 21, 2010, 09:49:56 am
If that were the case he'd have served himself better by keeping quiet, after all look at all the dopers like Basso who have slipped quietly back into the peloton.  I don't understand his actions. Armstrong has a point about Landis's lack of credibility after taking money off people to fund his defence, although that doesn't mean Landis is lying.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: David Martin on May 21, 2010, 09:52:39 am
Landis is lying. Which bits are lying and which are truth are not easily distinguishable, but he is saying totally contradictory things at different times to different people.

Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Rhys W on May 21, 2010, 10:09:19 am
Reading Armstrong and Bruyneel's response (and revelations how long this has harassment been going on) I get the distinct impression that Landis's mental health is not what it should be. Sad, but somehow more understandable now.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Pingu on May 21, 2010, 10:30:31 am
Can we retrieve all those threads where people (some here) defended Landis ad nauseum? Blah, blah the lab made a mistake etc. etc. The evidence was overwhelming.

You still don't get it. Nobody said Landis wasn't a cheat because the lab made a mistake. The lab failed to follow their own procedures & employed dodgy techniques to get a 'positive result'. That Landis cheated was coincidental to that.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: amaferanga on May 21, 2010, 11:40:47 am
Regardless of what Armstrong and Bruyneel claim about Landis' mental health (they're not exactly impartial in all this are they and they're not psychiatrists) the sensible thing to do here is surely to wait until Landis provides some evidence of his claims.  No evidence = no problem for Armstrong et al.  Carry on as before. 

To start attacking Landis is a little silly and to claim that he is only making these claims to publicise a book is even sillier (who would publish a book full of libellous claims?  There'll only be a book if his claims are true).  Its almost as if people have been brainwashed by the Armstrong propaganda machine....

I don't think anyone really doubts that there was and still is a big doping problem in cycling, so why would Landis have to make things up?
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: andygates on May 21, 2010, 11:55:25 am
Mud sticks, silly personal vendettas, etc etc. 

Treat it all as pro-wrestling - sports entertainment - and it's a lot less stressful.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: David Martin on May 21, 2010, 11:57:19 am
I don't think anyone really doubts that there was and still is a big doping problem in cycling, so why would Landis have to make things up?

I would say that there is still doping in cycling, but with the care now needed to be taken to avoid detection the problem (of risks to health) is minimised.

..d
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 21, 2010, 12:07:18 pm
The problem of cheating isn't though. 
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: David Martin on May 21, 2010, 12:12:19 pm
The problem of cheating isn't though. 

Along with the magic spanner, the sticky bottle, the deals between teams...

..d
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: amaferanga on May 21, 2010, 12:17:10 pm
Mud sticks, silly personal vendettas, etc etc. 

Treat it all as pro-wrestling - sports entertainment - and it's a lot less stressful.

Exactly what the spin machine want people to think. 

Anyway, the motives of Landis don't matter.  If what he is saying is true and he has evidence (or others speak out and add weight to his info) its far more significant.  Could be the end of the Armstrong myth.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: andygates on May 21, 2010, 12:28:49 pm
And if not, it's more jawflap. Quite how Floydy-boy would have evidence that eluded everyone else is a matter for speculation, but we know at least that he's a brazen liar.

IMO, this all says a lot more about Landis than anyone else.  Absent evidence, that's all it will ever say.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: JJ on May 21, 2010, 04:54:52 pm
<snip>
Along with the magic spanner <snip>

Wassat then?
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on May 21, 2010, 05:16:55 pm
<snip>
Along with the magic spanner <snip>

Wassat then?

'swot the mechanic is using to fix the problem on the bike that has caused the rider to be falling off the back of the peloton. He uses it as he hangs out the window of the moving team car.  The magic spanner solves the problem whilst the rider skilfuly keeps the bike upright beside the car. Sometimes the rider may need to hang on to the team car to allow the mechanic to wield the magic spanner.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Seineseeker on May 21, 2010, 06:14:57 pm
Oh I get it Pingu. Lots of people said Landis didn't cheat. Lots and lots. Yes, some people said he probably did cheat and it wasn't proven. The thing was the whole lab thing was the usual smokescreen. He did cheat, it was proven, the lab didn't mess up, and now he's admitted it.

The thing is now, no-one cares what Landis says. Armstrong has had enough allegations in his career and he's still smiling with the vast majority of people believing he's clean.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: David Martin on May 21, 2010, 08:24:42 pm
He did cheat, it was proven, the lab didn't mess up, and now he's admitted it.

With all due respect, the lab did mess up, protocols were not folowed, the chain of evidence was laughable and t einterpretation and calibration of the machines was of a standard which a PhD student would be embarrassed by.

I do have a professional interest in analytical mass spectrometry. It is one of the areas in which I am an active researcher. The decision made was political, and notjustifiable on scientific grounds. That is why they published all the data (and yes I did go through it all and examine it).

There was no competent evidence that would get past proper peer review.  FOrtunately for the lab they were not beig scrutinised by scientists. The well respected scientists (including the one who designed and wrote the manual for the mass spectrometer used) who did give evidence were slamming the lap procedures.

So for those competent to look at the evidence, the lab did mess up, they fudged like crazy and that is why I am so pissed off. If you want to curtail a career you have to be whiter than white in your testing. The lab should have been beyond reproach - they clearly weren't (from the evidence presented) and relied heavily on appeal to authority.

It's nice to have your touching faith in vested interests but I prefer to analyse the science.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: JJ on May 21, 2010, 10:19:06 pm
Sometimes the rider may need to hang on to the team car to allow the mechanic to wield the magic spanner.
Ah, now I see.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Seineseeker on May 22, 2010, 01:31:01 am
The email trail on Radio Shack's team page is fun to read, puts a bit of back story into Landis' grievance/revenge mission!

http://www.livestrong.com/teamradioshack/news_series-emails-referenced-statement-regarding-doping-allegations/ (http://www.livestrong.com/teamradioshack/news_series-emails-referenced-statement-regarding-doping-allegations/)
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: amaferanga on May 22, 2010, 10:01:30 am
The email trail on Radio Shack's team page is fun to read, puts a bit of back story into Landis' grievance/revenge mission!

http://www.livestrong.com/teamradioshack/news_series-emails-referenced-statement-regarding-doping-allegations/ (http://www.livestrong.com/teamradioshack/news_series-emails-referenced-statement-regarding-doping-allegations/)

You think these look good for LA? ???

Personally I don't care about why Landis is doing what he's doing - I care about whether or not the accusations are true.  Makes feck all difference if he's a loon.   Unfortunately the LA/McQuaid defence seems to be focused on painting Landis as some kind of deranged obsessive trying to get back at the people he see's as ruining his career.  How does McQuaid know all the allegations are untrue without even investigating them?

And why has no-one threatened legal action against Landis?  That's the standard LA response.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 22, 2010, 10:49:36 am
If I had to bet my house on these allegations, I'd bet on some/all of them being true.  There is clearly a lot of money tied up in this in all quarters and on all sides...
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: clarion on May 22, 2010, 10:55:57 am
Why has LA not threatened legal action?  Ask yourself why he sued the Times for posting extracts from LA Confidential in the UK, but demurred at sueing the authors in Paris.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 22, 2010, 11:44:25 am
Anyways, I reckon if they can get two of the the people Flandis named to corroborate then Armstrong is going down....

.....if they scrub his TdF victories they'll have to go a fair way down the GC list to find the winners.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Tewdric on May 22, 2010, 11:55:28 am
Anyways, I reckon if they can get two of the the people Flandis named to corroborate then Armstrong is going down....

.....if they scrub his TdF victories they'll have to go a fair way down the GC list to find the winners.

Absolutely.  This could be a good one - I'm off to stock up on popcorn..
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 22, 2010, 12:16:26 pm
LeMond Supports Landis In Fight For Clean Cycling | Cyclingnews.com (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-supports-landis-in-fight-for-clean-cycling)

I think this story is going to run.  Be interesting to see who cracks first in order to cut their losses.  Meanwhile LA is out of the ToC doubtless busy trying to shore everything up.

Wonder if we'll hear nothing for a week or two, then an LA press announcement admitting doping....
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: disrail on May 22, 2010, 12:44:24 pm
Wonder if we'll hear nothing for a week or two, then an LA press announcement admitting doping....

Not likely. It Lance the Texan. I get the impression that being apologetic or admitting fault is not within him.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: mattc on May 22, 2010, 01:00:02 pm
Sometimes the rider may need to hang on to the team car to allow the mechanic to wield the magic spanner.

But sometimes it is considered illegal to draft the team cars while making up time from a crash. No doubt the commisaires choose when to enforce this rule in an entirely fair way, cos as we know, there is no cheating in professional cycling. Except the drugs.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Justin(e) on May 22, 2010, 02:46:13 pm
If I had to bet my house on these allegations, I'd bet on some/all of them being true.  There is clearly a lot of money tied up in this in all quarters and on all sides...

I'll take you up on that bet.  I'll wager my house against your house that not all of Landis' accusations are true.

PM me if you would like to take this away from the metaphysical realms of cyberspace into lawyer-space.

My take is that Landis is suffering some sort of false repressed memory syndrome.  I am one of those that wanted to believe in him - so I'll accept some egg on my face for that.  However, I am sure that he is delusional at the moment.  How delusional I do not know.

Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 22, 2010, 03:05:43 pm
No deal. I've heard your house is way shit.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Seineseeker on May 22, 2010, 03:53:40 pm
If I had to bet my house on these allegations, I'd bet on some/all of them being true.  There is clearly a lot of money tied up in this in all quarters and on all sides...

Well er yeah, like obviously they are true, but it's been "known" for so long, I can't see it making any difference now. Lance is the Tiger Woods of cycling, they'll do anything to keep him.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 22, 2010, 04:02:48 pm
You are entirely wrong about that. If he's busted for doping the whole house of cards falls and he's finished. Besides, it isn't at all known.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: SpaceBadger on May 22, 2010, 05:41:20 pm
You are entirely wrong about that. If he's busted for doping the whole house of cards falls and he's finished. Besides, it isn't at all known.

That's quite an "if". I'm not aware of any evidence that he's ever cheated and Landis admits that all this is just his say-so. Until anyone fails a test, they're competing fair and square in my eyes.

Isn't this working spectacularly well for Floyd? Throw some mud at everyone else and deflect lots of attention. If Floyd is suffering from a medical condition, then I hope he gets treatment and moves on.

I can see now why Floyd contested the testing results so vigorously if he knew what he had taken, but it wasn't what was detected by the lab. I agree completely with the point made earlier by David Martin that if allegations are to be made that potentially ruin a career, they have to be beyond question. It is not the time or place for half-assed allegations based on bad science.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 22, 2010, 06:01:11 pm
You are entirely wrong about that. If he's busted for doping the whole house of cards falls and he's finished. Besides, it isn't at all known.

That's quite an "if". I'm not aware of any evidence that he's ever cheated and Landis admits that all this is just his say-so.

Exactly.  Nothing is 'known' until either traces of chemicals are found in his blood or piss, or several people are willing to dish the dirt on him.

(I still suspect there is some truth in Landis's accusations, though)
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Seineseeker on May 22, 2010, 10:31:41 pm
You are entirely wrong about that. If he's busted for doping the whole house of cards falls and he's finished. Besides, it isn't at all known.

I just don't think Lance will ever test positive and get busted. It sounds like he already has, and got away with it.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Domestique on May 26, 2010, 02:39:21 pm
Not sure if I caught this right, but on Eurosport just now they where saying something about cyclists being caught doping could now also be charged with fraud.
This might not only be specific to cycling, or USA cyclists.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Tewdric on May 26, 2010, 02:42:06 pm
The UCI have apparently confirmed that Lance promised to pay a $100,000 donation to the UCI in 2002, but didn't actulaly pay up until they sent him a reminder in 2005!

Nothing would suprise me with Verbruggen at the helm.  I don't think McQuaid would have the wit to sanction a cover-up though, which is something.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 27, 2010, 10:10:14 am
Floyd Landis information may unlock how to beat biological passport analysis system - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=5222488)

like I said before, I think this story will run if the investigation is out of the hands of the uci

So floyd is implying bruyneel had an insider giving tip offs of doping tests. Anyone remember Lance's famous 40 minute shower when the inspectors arrived?
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Rich753 on May 27, 2010, 11:39:25 am
Not sure if I caught this right, but on Eurosport just now they where saying something about cyclists being caught doping could now also be charged with fraud.
This might not only be specific to cycling, or USA cyclists.

This is likely to be quite signiicant.

IIUC fraud arises if you take money from a sponsor pretending to be drug-free and use that money to buy drugs!

And why it's important is that this then becomes a "proper crime" not just a sporting crime. So teh guy that investigated Balco is invovled, and he is a seriously big hitter - people went to jail on that one, and folks like Barry Bonds, legendary baseball guy, were stomped all over.

If they can stomp on Barry Bonds they can stomp on Lance.

Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: andygates on May 27, 2010, 01:00:20 pm
Isn't the usual sport fraud thing exclusive to France?
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: bobb on May 27, 2010, 02:13:54 pm
Isn't the usual sport fraud thing exclusive to France?

I'm not sure. I do remember reading somewhere a while ago that there was to be a change in English law (in preparation for 2012) to make the taking, possession or supply of banned substances a criminal offence, rather than just something for the governing bodies to sort out.

No idea if it has gone through, a work in progress or canned completely  :-\
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Porkins on May 28, 2010, 12:01:29 am
Landis isn't credible, but nevertheless I think the truth will out because he will want to look as if he's cooperating with investigators. That means being interviewed by them day after day after day without using prepared answers from lawyers. The story that Landis claims to want to tell (apparently EVERYTHING he knows about doping) involves so many people and events that a trained investigator/interrogator will be able to work out whether he's lying. I think he isn't - I think he's having a full-on Mennonite cathartic guilt-ridden baring of the soul, intertwined with a book deal. So we will all know what Lance did! It will be impossible to prove - but we will still be in no doubt because of rock-solid testimony, not just from Flandis, but from some of the many, many other people in his story, e.g. other accused US Postal teammates, some of whom will crumble, and Lance's ex-wife. Masses of beans will be spilled in the next year or two. Lance's edifice will crumble. He may stay out of court, but he's still going DOWN. It will be fascinating to watch.

Here's an article which agrees with me: Bicycling.com: Did Lance dope? The answer is coming  - Other sports- nbcsports.msnbc.com (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/37338905/ns/sports-other_sports/)

Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Seineseeker on May 28, 2010, 01:57:54 pm
Good article that.

I remember when you were Eurostar!
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: LindaG on May 28, 2010, 02:02:26 pm
The CW article made a good point, as there are similarities between Pantani's story and Landis's.

Someone needs to look after Landis properly through all this.  A young man who had the world at his feet, then lost it.  And now he's taken on the Armstrong machine.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on May 29, 2010, 03:35:50 pm
Are you suggesting some sort of "witness protection" is necessary? That if he is about to tell too much, influential people may make him disappear?
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: andygates on May 29, 2010, 05:55:50 pm
His broken body lying at the foot of a flight of stairs, with a yellow rubber wristband placed on his chest?

Mmm, I think not. 
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: SpaceBadger on May 29, 2010, 06:03:03 pm
Or maybe buried under pulped copies of his "I'm innocent, honest" book. The police could interview everyone who bought it or clicked "donate here" on his website to fund the on-going battle to prove his innocence.

I've read lots recently about the potential for fraud charges to be brought against those he's accused if his allegations are found to be true. What about the poor people who initially believed him (I did), and spent money on that basis (I didn't)?  ::-)
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Porkins on May 29, 2010, 08:21:57 pm
He must be feeling very, very guilty. And didn't his father in law commit suicide soon after he was busted?
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: LindaG on May 31, 2010, 07:24:59 pm
Sorry, just got back from hols.

No, I was suggesting that Landis is a vulnerable and troubled young man, who is in the middle of a life crisis, and has taken on the Armstrong Machine.  I just hope he has strong folk around to support him - doper or not. 

Remembering how Pantani finished up.  No-one deserves that.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Tewdric on May 31, 2010, 09:26:44 pm
Good article that.

I remember when you were Eurostar!

I particulary liked:

"The worst that could be factually said of Armstrong without leaving any real room for argument is that he was the greatest Tour de France racer in a time of great Tour de France doping. There were 14 other podium spots available during his seven-year streak and, in all, eight riders occupied them.

Five of those riders at some point admitted doping, were suspended for it, were convicted of it in court, or paid a fine to have charges settled: Ivan Basso, Raimondas Rumsas, Jan Ullrich, Alexander Vinokourov and Alex Zulle. Two others were linked to doping investigations then cleared or never charged: Joseba Beloki and Andreas Kloden. Just one, Fernando Escartin, had no direct association with doping allegations (though his Kelme team later would)."

And with Basso wining the Giro this year, it seems to me that nothing has changed.  
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 31, 2010, 09:34:08 pm
I'm very interested in the stuff Landis has said about the relationship between Armstrong/Bruyneel and the UCI.  The tip-off of douping controls, and the fact that USPS/Discovery riders never got busted until they were no longer working for Bruyneel.  If it is true, there is no hope for corruption-free cycling unless the UCI is superseded by something else.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Biff on May 31, 2010, 09:57:57 pm
I'm very interested in the stuff Landis has said about the relationship between Armstrong/Bruyneel and the UCI.  The tip-off of douping controls, and the fact that USPS/Discovery riders never got busted until they were no longer working for Bruyneel.  If it is true, there is no hope for corruption-free cycling unless the UCI is superseded by something else.

The Womens Institute. No bastard's hard enough to mess with them.
Title: Re: Landis comes clean!
Post by: Hot Flatus on June 10, 2010, 03:11:12 pm
French Investigate Caisse D'Epargne Over Tour Syringes | Cyclingnews.com (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/french-investigate-caisse-depargne-over-tour-syringes)

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