Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => The Knowledge => GPS => Topic started by: woollypigs on June 06, 2010, 10:29:18 pm

Title: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: woollypigs on June 06, 2010, 10:29:18 pm
So while I wait for my GPS I have been studding OSM and I have seen in my area that there is errors or places not update or tracked.

So I got a few questions :

1/ How do I update OSM on a ubuntu running system ? What programs are used etc ? (just created an account)

2/ Can I do it without a GPS ? As I can see two roads that are there IRL but haven't been marked as a through road, plus two exits of the park etc.
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: Wowbagger on June 06, 2010, 10:31:49 pm
Adding to OSM (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=33386.0)

Once you have your account, you can open Potlatch and choose a background of OS Streetview, which is now publicly available data. You can add any streets which are missing from OSM but you need to say what the source is. The Wiki pages will tell you how to do this.
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: woollypigs on June 06, 2010, 10:58:12 pm
Well I had a little poke around and change the neighbourhood around a bit. Now lets see how that works, will of course retrace it all when I get a GPS.

How long does it take for the changes to be live ?

I updated a road on Google maps around 2 months ago and it is still not corrected. (OSM has it correct)
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: Wowbagger on June 07, 2010, 08:05:12 am
That seems to vary depending upon what you've updated and the scale of the map you are looking at. Road updates can appear in minutes at one scale and take a lot longer on others. I changed a bit of the Essex Coast a few weeks ago and that took ages to show on anything. The changes are in place now at most scales, but one of the large-scale maps still shows the footpath going into the sea.
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: frankly frankie on June 07, 2010, 01:56:40 pm
It's 'live' more or less straight away, but the various views of the map that are obtainable are refreshed at varying times, OSM's own 'Mapnik' view will usually be right at all scales within a few hours, but in extreme cases of some downloadable versions, they can be a month or more 'slow'.
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: woollypigs on June 21, 2010, 04:36:09 pm
Hmm how do you tell OSM that the road you are on that you can only turn left out of it, as today my GPS wanted me to do an illegal tun.
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: fuaran on June 21, 2010, 04:57:52 pm
You need to create a turn restriction relation. Details here: Relation:restriction - OpenStreetMap Wiki (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:restriction)
There's a JOSM plugin which might make creating turn restrictions easier.
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: woollypigs on June 21, 2010, 08:36:13 pm
Thanks, I have now updated it, so all I have to do now is wait until it is updated on a map so that I can go and test it out to see if it worked.
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: TimO on June 21, 2010, 08:51:43 pm
Right, I've also made my first foray into editing OSM, using Potlatch to delete a non-existent bridge and series of paths at the end of my road.

I think whoever added them must have got them confused with another bridge a bit further along, but it showed a quite spectacular lack of familiarity with the area, and caused the CycleStreets Cycle Route Planner (http://www.cyclestreets.net/) to always send me down to the end of my street, which is utterly no-through!
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: woollypigs on June 22, 2010, 06:32:18 pm
I'm getting addicted to this :)

And have spotted a few missing streets and wrong directions today. I'm using JOSM to edit the roads, a bit like the old CAD programs I used many moons ago.

I got a long road (Pavilion Road in SW1X) which is a long continuous road, but one part near Hans Street have changed so that it is one way, going South to North not like the rest of it were it is the other way.

So how do I brake that road and change the direction on that bit ? It kinda looks like I have to re draw the whole road, is that true ?
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: andygates on June 22, 2010, 06:59:02 pm
Split the road into chunks.  Select (or add) the node you want to split on, then use X in Potlatch, P in Josm (IIRC).  Do this twice to create your segment.

It's common to have a road made of several bits, so as to accommodate things like relations which only apply to one section, or bridges.
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: woollypigs on June 22, 2010, 09:02:41 pm
Thanks managed to do it in Potlatch as I for the life of me couldn't do it in JOSM.
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: hbunnet on June 24, 2010, 02:53:44 pm
If I draw some data using OS Streetview as the source, what should I use in the "source" tag? There is nothing appropriate in the drop down menu in Potlatch.
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: fuaran on June 24, 2010, 03:18:43 pm
Its recommended to set the source as "OS_OpenData_StreetView". See Ordnance Survey Opendata - OpenStreetMap Wiki (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OS_Opendata#Attributing_OS)

If you press 'B', Potlatch will automatically add this as a source tag if you have the background set as OS Streetview.
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: hbunnet on June 24, 2010, 04:09:23 pm
If you press 'B', Potlatch will automatically add this as a source tag if you have the background set as OS Streetview.

Oh thanks, I had missed that.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: TimO on June 24, 2010, 05:22:58 pm
Gods, there's a road I cycle along every day, which is going to be quite complex to correct (for me anyway!).   Someone has marked quite a lot of the road as one-way, but actually there's just a cycle plug at the end, and most of the road is two-way (although not really usably).  I'll work out how to deal with it at some point ! <fx:fiddles with Potlatch>
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: nuttycyclist on June 24, 2010, 05:49:33 pm
Thanks managed to do it in Potlatch as I for the life of me couldn't do it in JOSM.

I only use potlatch.  I can't get my head around JOSM at all.

Plus I always think that if a website has an "edit" facility, why should I bother firing up an external program?
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: andygates on June 24, 2010, 07:08:34 pm
Gods, there's a road I cycle along every day, which is going to be quite complex to correct (for me anyway!).   Someone has marked quite a lot of the road as one-way, but actually there's just a cycle plug at the end, and most of the road is two-way (although not really usably).  I'll work out how to deal with it at some point ! <fx:fiddles with Potlatch>

Remove the one_way=yes tag; tidy it up into one way; split it around the plug; set the plug as a cycleway.  :thumbsup:

Plus I always think that if a website has an "edit" facility, why should I bother firing up an external program?

Horses for courses: JOSM is classic open-source stuff: steep learning curve, a bit ugly, with a thousand options and configurables.  I need to add the Harbours plugin that some Germans did, so I have all the presets for, well, harbours.  Complexity that isn't needed in day-to-day editing, but is handy.

Hmm, I usually attack that sort of program.  Must be one I like.
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: TimO on June 24, 2010, 07:53:42 pm
Gods, there's a road I cycle along every day, which is going to be quite complex to correct (for me anyway!).   Someone has marked quite a lot of the road as one-way, but actually there's just a cycle plug at the end, and most of the road is two-way (although not really usably).  I'll work out how to deal with it at some point ! <fx:fiddles with Potlatch>
Remove the one_way=yes tag; tidy it up into one way; split it around the plug; set the plug as a cycleway.  :thumbsup:

Yep, I'd sort of worked out that's what I need to do, it's just a matter of sorting out how I do it with Potlatch.  I should probably read some documentation!
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: frankly frankie on June 24, 2010, 10:44:37 pm
Plus I always think that if a website has an "edit" facility, why should I bother firing up an external program?

Plus it seems to me that an off-line editor generates a small risk of conflicts with other users editing at roughly the same time.  Using Potlach, I've seen another person working on the same town and reacting to my edits within minutes ...
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: fuaran on June 24, 2010, 11:06:14 pm
Personally I think JOSM is easier to use than Potlatch.
It means I can actually do stuff without having to memorise dozens of keyboard shortcuts, I can just choose it from a menu or toolbar, with custom presets if I want.
And the command stack is very useful in that it shows what I've changed, and can undo it all if necessary - in Potlatch its possible to accidentally move things and not notice.
There is the option to "Update data", which will check to see if anyone else has edited it, and warn of conflicts and allow them to be fixed. You could get edit conflicts with Potlatch if you are using it in "Edit with save" mode.
And as my surveying usually involves taking photos of just about everything, its very handy to load all of the geotagged photos in JOSM, to show where things are.
Plus it doesn't use Flash, so is less likely to eat up lots of memory and crash, crashing my browser as well...

As for Merkaartor, its just strange...
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: woollypigs on July 01, 2010, 11:35:23 pm
What is the norm to mark a foot part in a park that it is a shared cycle way too?

Highway - Footpath

and anything else ?

EDIT : is "Bicycle - yes" enough ?
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: TimO on July 02, 2010, 11:36:42 am
Interestingly the CycleStreets.net bods must just take an occasional copy of the OpenStreetMap database.  The tweak I made almost two weeks ago (deleting a non-existent bridge) whilst visible on OSM almost immediately, still hasn't promulgated through to CycleStreets.net. :-\
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on July 02, 2010, 11:56:02 pm
CycleStreets uses OpenCycleMap as the base data, and Andy at OCM has been having some server trauma recently.

fuaran - Potlatch does actually update data as you pan around. It just doesn't tell you about it. :)
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: hbunnet on July 03, 2010, 07:45:28 am
I'm fine with uploading GPS tracks and making ways, but what about a single point?
Is there a more direct way than just eyeballing the point on the GPS screen and then plotting it in OSM? 
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: andygates on July 03, 2010, 02:27:58 pm
If you save your waypoints, then they'll upload to OSM as part of the track: they appear as orange dots. 

(to save waypoints from the GPS, I use GPSbabel and just have everything -- tracks, routes and waypoints -- turned on.  This means, though, that I have uploaded my "home" point about twenty times.  :facepalm: )
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: hbunnet on July 03, 2010, 06:30:50 pm
If you save your waypoints, then they'll upload to OSM as part of the track: they appear as orange dots. 
Thanks, I'm not aware of seeing waypoints. I'll look into this further.

Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: woollypigs on July 05, 2010, 06:46:09 pm
Hmm how to mark this ...

I got a T-junction, where from the main road (Goldhawk Road) you can't turn right into the minor road (Sycamore Gardens). Because of barriers in the middle of Goldhawk Road.

Clicky to see from the sky (http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=51.50158,-0.230351&spn=0.001057,0.002443&t=k&z=19)

On OSM (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.50151&lon=-0.22982&zoom=17&layers=0B00FTF)

How would you mark that in OSM ?
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: fuaran on July 05, 2010, 07:17:10 pm
If the two directions of traffic are physically separated by a barrier etc in the middle, I think its worth mapping the road as a dual carriageway. ie draw a separate way for each direction, and tag them as oneway=yes. Then only connect the carriageways at the junctions where its possible to cross between them.
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: woollypigs on July 27, 2010, 02:58:08 pm
When you set a path as footpath, are you allowed to cycle down it ?

I got one example footpath in Chiswick (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.4774489402771&layers=O&lon=-0.261569023132324&zoom=16) which in marked in JOSM as a highway=footpath. But my GPS send me down it, when I have set the cycle profile.

There is a no cycling sign at the north end, but at the south end there isn't one. And quite a few people cycle there still.

When it comes to footpaths I would say that they are foot path and pedestrians have right away. But if there is a no cycling sign then it is no cycling. So will you if you find a footpath will you change it to bicycle=no ? e.g ho law abiding are you ?

Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: andygates on July 27, 2010, 04:27:21 pm
The principle is to map what is, not what we'd like it to be (after all, a non-cycling non-local mapper would record the sign - the rest is opinion), so if cycling is banned, it might be worth adding a bicycle=no. 
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: woollypigs on July 27, 2010, 04:33:00 pm
Second that.

Though isn't highway=footpath a non cycling route ?

Map Features - OpenStreetMap Wiki (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features)

Quote
For designated footpaths; i.e., mainly/exclusively for pedestrians. This includes walking tracks and gravel paths. If bicycles are allowed as well, you can indicate this by adding a bicycle=yes tag. Should not be used for paths where the primary or intended usage is unknown.

From that I take it is, so therefore I do not need to say bicycles=no.
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: Panoramix on July 27, 2010, 08:25:24 pm
Second that.

Though isn't highway=footpath a non cycling route ?

Map Features - OpenStreetMap Wiki (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features)

Quote
For designated footpaths; i.e., mainly/exclusively for pedestrians. This includes walking tracks and gravel paths. If bicycles are allowed as well, you can indicate this by adding a bicycle=yes tag. Should not be used for paths where the primary or intended usage is unknown.

From that I take it is, so therefore I do not need to say bicycles=no.

I have also remarked that the munky map sometimes sends me down footpath and stairs!
Title: Re: Adding/updating to open street map ?
Post by: andygates on July 27, 2010, 08:52:26 pm
There are some more sophisticated style-file rules in more recent mkgmaps, and I plan to roll those into the munkymap - programmatically adding explicit "no"'s and such.  Things may improve :)