Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Freewheeling => Racing => Topic started by: Mr Larrington on June 12, 2008, 09:39:32 am

Title: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Mr Larrington on June 12, 2008, 09:39:32 am
BBC SPORT | Other sport... | Cycling | Boonen banned from Tour de France (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/7445749.stm) ???

Daft git.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: andygates on June 12, 2008, 09:50:05 am
At least it was just a fun drug.  He'll be able to come back. 

Gonna spoil the sprints though.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Charlotte on June 12, 2008, 09:55:35 am
Pillock.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Regulator on June 12, 2008, 09:59:17 am
Silly sod!  He does't need the 'glamour' of cocaine... I'd sleep with him without it.   :P
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Wowbagger on June 12, 2008, 10:00:40 am
Silly sod!  He does't need the 'glamour' of cocaine... I'd sleep with him without it.   :P

That explains it then.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: mattc on June 12, 2008, 10:17:53 am
Quote
Boonen ran into further trouble with police last week when he was caught speeding while under the influence of alcohol.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on June 12, 2008, 11:37:22 am
Why is he banned?

The UCI don't have a problem with coke. 'twas also more than 3 days before competition.


It's just bl**dy politics, isn't it?

He's still a pillock. Coke is boring. Acid is far more interesting.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: TimO on June 12, 2008, 11:46:15 am
I guess the organisers of the Tour of Switzerland and TdF can choose who they want to invite or ban, it's their events, and they probably see such a high profile sportsman being caught using illegal drugs as being a bad image for the sport in general, and their events in particular.  Any sort of drug issues are going to be seen as much higher profile these days, even when they are not directly linked to performance enhancement.

And yes, he is an idiot, but that's hardly unique amongst high profile personalities.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: pcolbeck on June 12, 2008, 11:49:04 am
Good job they aren't so strict with footballers. The Premiership would be down to five a side.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: scott on June 12, 2008, 12:48:06 pm
Gonna spoil the sprints though.

Maybe McEwen will come down with really badly-timed cold. One can only hope.

Acid is far more interesting.

Mandatory LSD before each stage! That should pretty much take care of the race-radio issue.

Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Martin on June 12, 2008, 06:29:50 pm
I CNBA with the Tour this year; might watch the mountain stages for the scenery
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: FatBloke on June 12, 2008, 06:34:42 pm
 Boonen! You dozy fecking twat!!!  >:( >:( >:(

Just what cycling needs just before the Tour!  >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Frenchie on June 12, 2008, 07:19:24 pm
Pillock.

Ditto. For several reasons.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Ivo on June 12, 2008, 08:49:49 pm
On a Belgian forum there's a great series of Boonen cartoons: Wielertoerist.be - Door en voor wielerliefhebbers (http://www.wielertoerist.be/website/index.php?pag=leden_pagina&pid=407&spag=fotos&modus=view&aid=2619&fid=11892)
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: spesh on June 12, 2008, 09:24:33 pm
Look on the bright side, Mark Cavendish's chances of getting at least one stage win in this year's TdF have improved dramatically.  ;)
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: GruB on June 12, 2008, 09:27:09 pm
Pantani was addicted to cocaine and crack cocaine.
Perhaps this is more widespread than we think?
That German chap, he had some too didn't he?
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: gonzo on June 12, 2008, 09:31:47 pm
That German chap, he had some too didn't he?

Ulrich? He was on Extacy.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: GruB on June 12, 2008, 10:38:36 pm
Wasn't he done for cocaine too though?
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: gonzo on June 12, 2008, 10:41:35 pm
Quite possibly!

Wasn't it cyclists who used to use a Belgian concoction of performance enhancing and recreational drugs?
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on June 13, 2008, 04:13:27 am
Pot Belge, never tried it myself.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: mattc on June 13, 2008, 10:17:36 am
Good job they aren't so strict with footballers. The Premiership would be down to five a side.

Aww it's not fair to stop the poor dears having their fun. What else are they going to spend all that cash on?
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Mr Larrington on June 13, 2008, 10:38:38 am
That German chap, he had some too didn't he?

Ulrich? He was on Extacy.

Ulrich was on cake ;D
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Dave on June 13, 2008, 10:47:46 am
It's just another performance enhancing drug

Quote
Doses increased heart rate and blood pressure for up to 180 min, and increased subject ratings of drug effects and decreased skin temperature for 60–90 min after drug administration.

Quote
Faster reaction times and diminished effects of fatigue have been observed. Improvements were greatest in behaviorally impaired subjects (e.g. sleep deprived, fatigued, or concurrent use of ethanol) and least improvements were observed in well-rested, healthy subjects.

Got a tricky mountain TT in the middle of the third week of the Tour? Quick hit and you're sorted...
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: GruB on June 13, 2008, 07:50:40 pm
What I really want to say is

"You cheating FUCKER, a lot of us follow the peleton and we dream about what it must be like and we buy the magazines and we see the lovely bikes you have and the good kit and really, all you are is a cheating FUCKER"

but I probably will not say it.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: vince on June 13, 2008, 08:27:15 pm
Aw go on - you know you really want to.

It does seem like an astonishingly pointless and stupid thing to do. I would imagine that the sponsors are going to be less than impressed.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: gonzo on June 13, 2008, 11:03:30 pm
Got a tricky mountain TT in the middle of the third week of the Tour? Quick hit and you're sorted...

Yeah, but he wasn't in a 3 week tour. This isn't like taking part in a course of EPO over the winter months to improve yourself. This is taking recreational drugs for his own entertainment.

GruB; see above. He's not cheating. It's like saying that the police caught him speeding (hold on...). It's illegal yeah, but it's not making any benefical difference to his performance in racing. People are overly cautious about any cyclist having anything to do with drugs, but there are different types of drugs; recreational and performance enhancing.

Quickstep and Specialized are staying with the team for at least another 3 years; Tom's too much of a celeb in Belgium to drop him that easily.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: GruB on June 13, 2008, 11:29:07 pm
Gonzo,
I totally understand what you are saying, but I am assuming the worst.  I can only be surprised for the better that way.  Cyclists take cocaine for both performance and recreational use.  I smell a rat.  He is the prodigy of a cheat, so I reckon time will tell.  You are right about the team and sponsor though, and no wonders the sport is in such a mess.  Imagine the message it would send if they dropped the team like a hot potato !!
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Domestique on June 14, 2008, 06:58:26 am
Isnt cocaine a masking drug?
Whatever, how fecking stupid are some of these sports people.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: GruB on June 14, 2008, 08:50:54 am
Isnt cocaine a masking drug?
Whatever, how fecking stupid are some of these sports people.

Domestique you may have just hit the nail on the head.  When I was in Australia I read Matt Rendell's book on Marco Pantani.  I was trying to rack my brain for the significance of cocaine, but for the life of me I couldn't.  Pantani was on loads of the stuff throughout his career although the governing bodies in Italy never seemed to bother with the amounts he must have been positive with ( except possibly very late in his career and at the time of the Olympics it became an issue ). That in itself is telling as there would appear to be a culture of acceptance regarding cocaine in the peleton / soigneurs etc.  If it is a masking drug - then what a surprise.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: gonzo on June 14, 2008, 08:58:41 am
I've never heard Tomeke implicated in the various performance enchancing drug scandals over the years (nor was he in US posal for very long; usually a good thing as far as drugs are concerned) nor have I heard his name bought up in discussions about drugs previously.

I'm very cynical about drug use in the peleton, but sprinters don't generally seem to be as involved with enancing drugs as others as they only need to perform occasionally and can just quit when the going gets tough in the mountains.

If he was caught for EPO use, then he'd become widely hated. He hasn't been. The only problem is that it's a civil offence. He shouldn't technically have even banned from the tour as they are only meant to ban people on performance enhancing stuff.

It's all very rock and roll and utterly stupid. The only damage it's doing to cycling is that you lot are equating him to the people on courses of performance enhancers as you're so used to hearing about; "rider tests positive".

Imagine if they'd said Tom Boonen found to be drunk in charge of a car (*ahem*). He's failed a drugs test there too.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Domestique on June 14, 2008, 09:58:43 am
The thing is Gonzo he knows he is going to get drug tested, why would he take something when he knows he is going to get caught and put him out of the Tour?
Doesnt make sense to me.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: GruB on June 14, 2008, 10:09:43 am
Gonzo,
You have your head in the sand in my opinion.  Good luck to you.  I can't do that.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: gonzo on June 14, 2008, 10:22:50 am
The thing is Gonzo he knows he is going to get drug tested, why would he take something when he knows he is going to get caught and put him out of the Tour?
Doesnt make sense to me.

Why did he get pissed then drive? On another occasion why did he do 2x the speed limit on some motorway? Why do you hear about footballers on rec drugs? Why do you occasionally have far too much to drink?

People do stupid things.

Also, as I've already said, it shouldn't have put him out of the tour. That was the UCI/ASO banning him in much the same way as with Astana.

Gonzo,
You have your head in the sand in my opinion.  Good luck to you.  I can't do that.

Didn't you say that you thought Lance was clean ;)

You're mistaken, I know and accept that most pros are on drugs. All we're talking about here is a single test result. Ignore everything else. He hasn't been caught cheating. He's been caught doing something illegal. You need to be able to see the difference between these.

In response to an earlier question, I don't think that coke is a covering agent; The UCI bans the covering drugs and coke isn't on their list of banned substances (or at least, that's my understanding).
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: alan on June 14, 2008, 10:38:24 am
The guy is using drugs.He is a role model for some people & this fact makes drug use,irrespective of it being for leisure or cheating, un-acceptable to my mind.
It's a pity the team sponsers do not have the wherewithall to drop him as an example of zero-tolerance to drug use.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: GruB on June 15, 2008, 09:10:17 am
I remembered the recent information that I had read that was causing me to a have a niggling doubt in my mind - and here it is:

Cycle Sport - June 2008 - article on Boonen:
The media can't believe how they misread his Spring form prior to Paris Roubaix so badly:

"In 2007, he won Kuurne, Across Flanders and E3-Harelbeke and they still kept talking about Boonen's failed spring.  What will happen if he misses out on Sunday at Roubaix?"

But the most devastating criticisms of all probably came from Roger De Vlaeminck.  Never one to mince his words, 'Mr Paris Roubaix' simply stated:  "Boonen's racing badly.

I hardly know anything about him anymore.  But what I've seen doesn't inspire any confidence.  In Flanders when Devolder went for it, he was out there by himself.

If Boonen was as good as he said he was, why didn't he go with Juan Antonio Flecha or Nick Nuyens when they tried to chase down Devolder in the last five kilometres of the race?

I didn't see him in Ghent-Wevelgem either, where all Boonen did was whinge about the descent of the Kemmelberg.  Enough!  In my day we used to go down the Kemmel descent four time a year without complaining.

I know riders' mentalities change, but when a rider complains about the route, it's because they haven't got the form.  That hasn't changed.  I hope I'm wrong, but I really don't believe it is going to happen".

There was also a lot of talk about the pressure with Flanders from the public expectation, his split with his long time girlfriend and then getting back together with her again.  The article implies that Boonen has a world of pressure on him to provide the goods - the hopes and dreams of a whole nation.

( This sounds very similar to the Matt Rendell book on Pantani ) Alarm bells ringing??

Also - just one question on your comment about cocaine above - should the UCI ban a drug that in itself is illegal in the first place?

Any yes, I once dreamed that Armstrong was clean.  I now have my serious doubts about that following the reading of the Pantani book.  It is such a shame when dreams are shattered.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: alan on June 15, 2008, 09:52:28 am
The UCI, & other cycling governing/controlling bodies should formaly ban all drugs that are illegal.Do these people not understand the phrase "united front"?
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: GruB on June 15, 2008, 10:34:11 am
Gonzo and all,

Just to clarify my position - I don't like being taken for a chump.  By anyone.
I didn't realise just how many cheats there were out there in the big world of pro racing.
Now I do.
I really admired Ivan Basso - I loved the way he effortlessly rode up hills.  He seemed like a really good rider to dream about when riding up hills myself.  I liked reading about him in the pro mags.
By default I liked the team he was on.  I liked their bikes, their colours, their ethos.

Then Peurto came along and my dreams were busted.  I stopped my pro mag subscriptions in disgust.  I didn't watch the tour of ITV2 that year in disgust.  I felt cheated.

Now, things seem to be getting better.  I have learnt a bit more about the mindset and workings of a team ( via that book ) and I feel like I have grown up a bit when it comes to understanding what goes on.  I don't accept it, but I feel I understand it.

Boonen has always been ace in my eyes.  But, because of the revelations about Museouw ( sic ) I have always had my doubts.  I didn't want to, but they were there.

I really want this to all be a private matter, one that has more to do with his love life than his bike life, but I can't just shake the spectre of doubt that lingers at times like this.

I really do hope that my fears are wrong.  It would be such a shame if not.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: GruB on April 10, 2009, 09:23:22 am
I've had cause to come back to this thread as I'm currently reading Paul Kimmage's book - Rough Ride.  The chapter about 'charges' made me remember this discussion.  The charge was generally amphetamine but could also be crack cocaine.  I Googled two of the slang names in the book and established this.
The type of race determined if the charge was taken before or during.  Sometimes riders took a syringe cut down to size with them in their back pocket.  Tablets were also used but were not as effective as a shot directly into the body.

What Kimmage as saying is that the mind was the hardest part of the body to control, to motivate, to get going and keep going.  The charge made all that possible.  The charge made them keep going when in reality they just wanted to drop.

It may not be performance enhancing in the same way as EPO or testosterone, I accept that, but it is a perofrmance enhancing drug in my mind if you just want to stop and die because you are so tired or miserable and taking something that makes you feel invincible washes all that away.

The big advantage for the riders in my mind is they can say the use was recreational and NOT for the sport.  I don't think this is the case from reading the book.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Hot Flatus on April 10, 2009, 09:32:16 am
Eddy Merckx was done for drugs.  People like to forget that.

Anyway.... I reckon Armstrongs days are numbered.......
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Rich753 on April 10, 2009, 09:02:10 pm


What Kimmage as saying is that the mind was the hardest part of the body to control, to motivate, to get going and keep going.  The charge made all that possible.  The charge made them keep going when in reality they just wanted to drop.

It may not be performance enhancing in the same way as EPO or testosterone, I accept that, but it is a perofrmance enhancing drug in my mind if you just want to stop and die because you are so tired or miserable and taking something that makes you feel invincible washes all that away.
.

IIUC Bolivian lead miners used to chew coca leaves to extract cocaine to help them cope with the sodding miserable existence they had - all that pain and suffering.  Therefore a perfect drug for TdF cyclists to help them cope with the pain and suffering. No?


Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: GruB on April 10, 2009, 09:42:55 pm
Exactly the point.  A lot of us on here report feeling low and tired and run down.  Perhaps cocaine would help with the uber commuting too?  :o
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: αdαmsκι on April 12, 2009, 10:12:24 pm
Coca leaf time is tasty stuff  :thumbsup:

Anyway, an impressive result from Boonen today in the Paris-Roubaix race.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: GruB on April 12, 2009, 11:23:15 pm
Yes, he certainly took charge of the race.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Thor on April 12, 2009, 11:42:14 pm
Charge or not, it helped that all his rivals crashed at a particularly inopportune point.  :-\
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: ChrisO on April 13, 2009, 04:56:02 am
In the context of the supposed rivalry with  Cavendish I have to hand it to Boonen that he can win a race like Paris-Roubaix (three bloody times) and still turn up to contest the sprints and green jersey at the TdF.

In that sense Cav is more in the McEwen-Zabel mode of being delivered to the final straight than the Boonen-O'Grady style of taking the race on.

They should lay a few miles of pave on the Isle of Man.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Giropaul on April 13, 2009, 07:57:33 am
Charge or not, it helped that all his rivals crashed at a particularly inopportune point.  :-\

Tired men crash, just as tired men puncture!

The fresher you are the more alert you are, and you are more likely to avoid the crashes and the punctures.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: αdαmsκι on April 13, 2009, 08:40:59 am
In that sense Cav is more in the McEwen-Zabel mode of being delivered to the final straight than the Boonen-O'Grady style of taking the race on.

That's very true, but Cavendish is still young and it will be interesting to see if he's able to develop into a rider that can take charge of a race like Boonen did.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Ivo on April 14, 2009, 09:50:27 am
Charge or not, it helped that all his rivals crashed at a particularly inopportune point.  :-\

Tired men crash, just as tired men puncture!

The fresher you are the more alert you are, and you are more likely to avoid the crashes and the punctures.


Especially as the crash by Hushovd was simply a case of overcooking a corner. Hoste and Pozzato were in the wrong spot, Boonen was leading at the point where Flecha crashed.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: andrew_s on April 14, 2009, 09:02:43 pm
Charge or not, it helped that all his rivals crashed at a particularly inopportune point.  :-\
It was no accident that Boonen missed all the crashes and consequent holdups. If you are at the front you don't get held up by a pile of crashed riders, you don't get brought off by fallen riders, and you've got a good sight of potholes and the right lines on corners.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Thor on April 14, 2009, 09:57:53 pm
Charge or not, it helped that all his rivals crashed at a particularly inopportune point.  :-\
It was no accident that Boonen missed all the crashes and consequent holdups. If you are at the front you don't get held up by a pile of crashed riders, you don't get brought off by fallen riders, and you've got a good sight of potholes and the right lines on corners.

So what you're saying is - if you stay at the front throughout the race, you'll win?!

If only lesser riders realised this...
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Giropaul on April 14, 2009, 10:23:02 pm
Charge or not, it helped that all his rivals crashed at a particularly inopportune point.  :-\
It was no accident that Boonen missed all the crashes and consequent holdups. If you are at the front you don't get held up by a pile of crashed riders, you don't get brought off by fallen riders, and you've got a good sight of potholes and the right lines on corners.

So what you're saying is - if you stay at the front throughout the race, you'll win?!

If only lesser riders realised this...

But only the best can get to the front - hence the big attacks to get to the front before the worst pave sections, such as the Forest.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Moloko on April 14, 2009, 10:44:47 pm
Shame about that last crash; I was looking forward to seeing a more closely contended finish.

Some of the spectators shouldn't be let anywhere near the course. As they've got no idea
whatsoever of the danger they pose to the riders.
I thought the one rider was going to pull up and go back to that one twat. The rider just made
do with a long hard Paddington stare over his shoulder instead.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Rich753 on May 09, 2009, 08:18:41 pm
and now the daft sod has gone and done it again .....

www.cyclingnews.com - the world centre of cycling (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2009/may09/may09news2)
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: andygates on May 09, 2009, 08:42:46 pm
So... does he just have a coke habit, or what?
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Rich753 on May 09, 2009, 08:51:10 pm
So... does he just have a coke habit, or what?

Looks like it - always dangerous doing psychological profiling from a distance but seems like he's either a daft laddie like Ullrich or a quite a bit unstable like Frank VDB
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Pancho on May 09, 2009, 09:04:25 pm
Coke is boring.

Says "MrCharly"
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Biff on May 10, 2009, 12:55:45 am
Coke is boring.

Says "MrCharly"

(http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2008/08/21/charley-says460.jpg)

'Charlie says Tommy is not the only silly pussy'
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: ChrisO on May 10, 2009, 05:06:10 am
Now he claims that he "might" have taken cocaine but only because he had so much to drink, although he was so pissed he can't remember.

Head case...
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 10, 2009, 08:06:45 am
Really?  Sounds like an average friday night out in London for young professionals.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: GruB on May 10, 2009, 09:57:11 am
I may be the original conspiracy theorist, shoot me down if you think so.

But......

Belgian riders can use charges to get themselves going.  It has been happening for decades.  Controls are weak - well they used to be.  Common charge components are cocaine or amphetamines.

So he just uses recreationally does he?  A professional rider that is under a lot of pressure to perform, to produce the goods for his sponsors and actually much more than that - a whole nation.  I don't think so.  This 'just personal use' argument is hollow and a cover for drugs in sport.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: rdaviesb on May 10, 2009, 10:02:11 am
If he will take drugs out of competition (even for recreational use) then he will eventually be tempted to "improve his performance" through non legal means (and will Cav's rise this might be sooner rather than later). He can't go to the Tour this year, or even next.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 10, 2009, 10:10:15 am
Don't think so.... the problem is more likely to be the inverse, sports drug use leading to recreational use.  Maybe not so likely these days, when only a fool would use amphetamines in competition, but certainly was a problem up to the late 80's.  It is well documented that riders would get off their tits at team parties on 'pot belge', a mixture of all sorts of fun drugs.

I don't disbelieve Boonen.  He's a cycling rock star, this is part of that lifestyle. I think it is a completely seperate issue to sporting use.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: GruB on May 10, 2009, 10:22:16 am
Good point about the lifestyle and the hero status that he has in certain parts of the world.  But, I also wonder how high the integrity in his country is when it comes to testing.  That young chap that died this year, a fellow Belgian.  I think drug use in Belgian is still okay and the crime is being caught.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Moloko on May 10, 2009, 10:26:19 am
(http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss226/SgtBikeo/boonen33.jpg)

Maitre d': Just a leettle toot from off zis mirror. Just take a leetle line...  It iz only wafer theen.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 10, 2009, 10:33:28 am
That young chap that died this year, a fellow Belgian.  I think drug use in Belgian is still okay and the crime is being caught.

Were drugs the cause of death?
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: GruB on May 10, 2009, 10:54:13 am
I don't think we actually 'know' the cause of death.  That is why I am sceptical.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: andygates on May 10, 2009, 04:39:08 pm
If he will take drugs out of competition (even for recreational use) then he will eventually be tempted to "improve his performance" through non legal means

That's pretty groundless and opinionated.  Care to back it up?
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: ibrahim on May 10, 2009, 05:25:37 pm
I'm not happy with this ban, just as I'm not happy at all with companies sacking employees who test positive for drugs. I'm not a drug user myself but will happily allow other people to do what they do in their spare time as long as it doesn't affect their performance at times when it shouldn't such as when driving a car or actually being at work.

Since the UCI has no beef with Boonen (   ::-)   ) let him ride his bike!

Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: ChrisO on May 10, 2009, 06:18:25 pm
Cocaine is a prohibited substance i.e. prohibited in the sporting sense of the word during competition. This wasn't a competition test but it doesn't exactly give you a licence to use it.

The other point is that the team will have clauses in his contract about bringing them into disrepute. I'd be surprised if the UCI didn't have some sort of catch-all covering it as well. Being hauled up on criminal charges for a second time in violation of your first sentence is a pretty good example of disrepute.

Apart from that who knows that it hasn't been affecting his performance.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Julian on May 10, 2009, 06:21:22 pm
I've known a few people who take coke "recreationally."  It's very addictive, especially if a person's under high pressure.  If he was chucked out last year for it in a high profile ban, he could well have become dependent.  Whether that counts as using it for sports purposes or not I don't know.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Rich753 on May 10, 2009, 09:18:46 pm
Seems that this main problem now is the unwelcome attention from the Gendarmerie  (or Belgian equivalent) - he may well face criminal charges related to breaking the terms of his "suspended sentence" or whatever it was he got last time.

FWIW to me the valid comparison is with footballers/rich urban professionals rather than any conspiracy to deceive- he's just unlucky that the cycling regime is so strict, and I'm with Ibrahim on this, don't think  they should even be testing for drugs that are designated as non-performance-enhancing.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: GruB on May 10, 2009, 09:21:30 pm
I disagree that it is not performance enhancing.  It may not build muscle, it may not increase the red blood cell count and therefore increase your oxygen in the blood, but it does stimulate.  In all the cycling drug books I've read cocaine is one of the drugs they take.  Belgian mix contains it quite often.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Rich753 on May 10, 2009, 09:29:27 pm
I disagree that it is not performance enhancing.  It may not build muscle, it may not increase the red blood cell count and therefore increase your oxygen in the blood, but it does stimulate.  In all the cycling drug books I've read cocaine is one of the drugs they take.  Belgian mix contains it quite often.


You might think that and you may be correct, but the UCI doesn't agree - so testing positive for cocaine outside competition doesn't attract the attention of the folks who set the rules for organised competitive cycling.

Which, IMHO, begs the question of why they test for it in the first place!
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: DuncanM on May 10, 2009, 09:38:37 pm
It is a stimulant.  It's benefits only occur if you take it during a race.  So it's not performance enhancing in an out of competition test.  Seems fairly straightforward to me...
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Rich753 on May 10, 2009, 09:40:33 pm
Yes, thank you for your directness  ;D
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: DuncanM on May 10, 2009, 10:17:19 pm
Yes, thank you for your directness  ;D
I try. :)
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Bledlow on May 10, 2009, 10:34:55 pm
IIUC Bolivian lead miners used to chew coca leaves to extract cocaine to help them cope with the sodding miserable existence they had - all that pain and suffering.  Therefore a perfect drug for TdF cyclists to help them cope with the pain and suffering. No?

I saw tin miners in Potosi doing that in 1987. I have photos.

Yes.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: rdaviesb on May 11, 2009, 12:21:06 am
If he will take drugs out of competition (even for recreational use) then he will eventually be tempted to "improve his performance" through non legal means

That's pretty groundless and opinionated.  Care to back it up?

Only the stupid (or desperate) take a substance which they know will get picked up on the next dope test.

Which is he? You have to look at the motivators. The latter is actually preferable in this circumstance.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: ChrisO on May 11, 2009, 10:19:10 am
Just to clarify, he's not being punished by the UCI. Nor was he punished by them last year.

The exclusion is by ASO, the organisers of the Tour de France among others. And the suspension is from his team. Presumably under some disrepute clause in his contract.

And if he is habitually using and/or binge drinking then one suspects that his directeur sportif may have reservations about his performance as well. I don't imagine he's on minimum wage.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: mattc on May 12, 2009, 09:08:19 am
Hands up who has never got off their trumpet and done something silly?
For once I agree with you.

They're just bike riders with more natural speed than us. They're not gods, and no matter how succesful they are, how much they're paid, or how much they love their team/club/country/family they are still normal blokes, many of them wedged up and travelling constantly with work. Doesn't make them cheats, doesn't show they are "wasting their talent" * .

What do we REALLY expect? Is the average fan an idiot, or do we just like knocking down those luckier than us?



*(although some ARE guilty of this, in many non-drug-related ways)
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: mattc on May 12, 2009, 11:27:37 am
.... but am reassured that you did  ;)

:)
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: TimO on May 12, 2009, 11:43:11 am
Hands up who has never got off their trumpet and done something silly?

Yes, but if I do something silly which affects my job, I'm likely to find myself without one very shortly afterwards.  So I don't do stupid things which are likely to impact upon me professionally.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: mattc on May 12, 2009, 11:59:44 am
Hands up who has never got off their trumpet and done something silly?

Yes, but if I do something silly which affects my job, I'm likely to find myself without one very shortly afterwards.  So I don't do stupid things which are likely to impact upon me professionally.
But at what point does your leisure time affect you "professionally" ?
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: TimO on May 12, 2009, 01:35:36 pm
Currently not so much, but in a previous job, being arrested for a drugs related offence would have got me instantly suspended, and almost certainly the sack if I'd been found (or pleaded) guilty.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: mattc on May 12, 2009, 02:05:56 pm
Tim,
I have no idea who employed you, but I suspect there are VERY few jobs where taking drugs (off-duty, anyway!), or even being prosecuted for druggie no-nos, ACTUALLY affects your ability to do your job.

The few jobs where this is an issue, I would bet it is all about "image". So it's what other people think, or CLAIM to think.

e.g. headteachers can easily do their jobs and snort coke on Sunday mornings. Unfortunately many parents would disagree with me, rightly or wrongly. Many parents would also object to a gay/jewish/muslim/female headteacher...

I would like to watch the BEST sportsmen compete,
NOT: the best sportsmen who also have a squeaky clean private life.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: TimO on May 12, 2009, 02:53:09 pm
My point wasn't that it's appropriate or not to penalise someone for using drugs in their own time, but that Boonen knows that this can be an issue, and does it anyway.  If you choose to behave in a way which is contrary to the rules outlined for your job, then you are going to get stuffed when you break them.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: GruB on May 12, 2009, 08:13:10 pm
Tim,
I have no idea who employed you, but I suspect there are VERY few jobs where taking drugs (off-duty, anyway!), or even being prosecuted for druggie no-nos, ACTUALLY affects your ability to do your job.

The few jobs where this is an issue, I would bet it is all about "image". So it's what other people think, or CLAIM to think.

e.g. headteachers can easily do their jobs and snort coke on Sunday mornings. Unfortunately many parents would disagree with me, rightly or wrongly. Many parents would also object to a gay/jewish/muslim/female headteacher...

I would like to watch the BEST sportsmen compete,
NOT: the best sportsmen who also have a squeaky clean private life.

I wouldn't say mine was anything to do with image, more INTEGRITY I reckon.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: GruB on May 12, 2009, 10:56:58 pm
Can we desist from THE words IN capitals, please.... it's a bit RETARDED

 ;)

(http://spasticfantastic.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/retarded.jpg)
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: vorsprung on May 13, 2009, 01:37:08 pm
Can we desist from THE words IN capitals, please.... it's a bit RETARDED

 ;)

it's also shouty!!!
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: andygates on May 13, 2009, 01:53:54 pm
The few jobs where this is an issue, I would bet it is all about "image". So it's what other people think, or CLAIM to think.
I wouldn't say mine was anything to do with image, more INTEGRITY I reckon.

More "I'm a copper, I can't be seen to do anything illegal" surely?

Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: GruB on May 13, 2009, 01:58:12 pm
The few jobs where this is an issue, I would bet it is all about "image". So it's what other people think, or CLAIM to think.
I wouldn't say mine was anything to do with image, more INTEGRITY I reckon.

More "I'm a copper, I can't be seen to do anything illegal" surely?



What, it is okay until I get caught you mean?
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Mr Larrington on May 14, 2009, 12:01:45 pm
The few jobs where this is an issue, I would bet it is all about "image". So it's what other people think, or CLAIM to think.
I wouldn't say mine was anything to do with image, more INTEGRITY I reckon.

More "I'm a copper, I can't be seen to do anything illegal" surely?



What, it is okay until I get caught you mean?

Works for MPs... >:(
Title: Re: Boonen Back in Tour
Post by: ChrisO on June 10, 2009, 06:39:39 pm
ASO have said he can race in the Tour according to Cycling News.

I'm surprised his team haven't booted him out for breaking his agreements but I guess at the end of the day they just want to win races.
Title: Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
Post by: Moloko on June 11, 2009, 10:26:54 am
With all the coke he's been doin', I'm surprised he hasn't gone to Columbia...















The country, not the team.