Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Audax => Topic started by: daimountaingoat on December 05, 2010, 06:10:54 pm

Title: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: daimountaingoat on December 05, 2010, 06:10:54 pm
Hi all dont know if it is on here i can post this but wondering on what to do regarding training, eating and sleeping for 600kms events or if anyone on here can give me a few pointers.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: LEE on December 05, 2010, 06:14:01 pm
Ride a 200, 300 and 400, in that order, and you'll be prepared for a 600.

Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: MattH on December 05, 2010, 06:16:19 pm
LEE's advice is pretty good; you'll figure out what your issues are on the earlier rides, and how to deal with them.

What length rides have you done to date?
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: daimountaingoat on December 05, 2010, 06:18:06 pm
LEE's advice is pretty good; you'll figure out what your issues are on the earlier rides, and how to deal with them.

What length rides have you done to date?

Have done much over 150kms in past few years but have done 200kms before.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Blade on December 05, 2010, 06:41:28 pm
Don't push yourself too hard during the ride, just take it steady.

Pick your battles,for your first 600 find the easiest, flattest one around.When you've done one you will have much more confidence.

Get plenty of sleep in the week before the event.

Lay off the booze for a couple of weeks before you attempt a 600k event.

Break the ride up into sections between controls. i.e. "only another 40 miles and then I can have a rest".

Eat and drink every hour or so.

Just keep moving forward. Don't faff about every time you stop.

No matter how slow a rider you are, if you keep riding, rather than sitting at the side of the road feeling sorry for yourself, you WILL finish in time.

You have, IIRC 39 hours to do 375miles. That's under 10 miles an hour. Anybody can ride a bike at 10 miles an hour.

You don't have to be a fast rider to finish a 600, you just have to be able to grind out the miles and be stoic.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: daimountaingoat on December 05, 2010, 06:45:35 pm
Don't push yourself too hard during the ride, just take it steady.

Pick your battles,for your first 600 find the easiest, flattest one around.When you've done one you will have much more confidence.

Get plenty of sleep in the week before the event.

Lay off the booze for a couple of weeks before you attempt a 600k event.

Break the ride up into sections between controls. i.e. "only another 40 miles and then I can have a rest".

Eat and drink every hour or so.

Just keep moving forward. Don't faff about every time you stop.

No matter how slow a rider you are, if you keep riding, rather than sitting at the side of the road feeling sorry for yourself, you WILL finish in time.

You have, IIRC 39 hours to do 375miles. That's under 10 miles an hour. Anybody can ride a bike at 10 miles an hour.

You don't have to be a fast rider to finish a 600, you just have to be able to grind out the miles and be stoic.

thanks for the advice i am planning to do the seething 600kms is that fairly flat would u know?
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: LiamFitz on December 05, 2010, 06:56:05 pm
I agree with all of the above - a base level of fitness will get you around.

However I should add that you should develop the ability to make friends and talk rubbish with complete strangers.  An hour spent talking is an hour when you're not alone with your thoughts obsessing about how tired you feel. how sore your bum is or whatever demons you can conjure up for yourself!

Liam
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Gareth Rees on December 05, 2010, 07:04:08 pm
I am planning to do the Seething 600km. Is that fairly flat, would you know?

It'll be as flat as a very flat thing. The highest point in Norfolk is only 103 m high (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beacon_Hill,_Norfolk), and neighbouring Suffolk and Cambridgeshire are hardly any higher. There might be annoying headwinds, though.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: daimountaingoat on December 05, 2010, 07:06:55 pm
I am planning to do the Seething 600km. Is that fairly flat, would you know?

It'll be as flat as a very flat thing. The highest point in Norfolk is only 103 m high (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beacon_Hill,_Norfolk), and neighbouring Suffolk and Cambridgeshire are hardly any higher. There might be annoying headwinds, though.
Thanks for advice as long as it is flat i can put up with the headwinds
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: mattc on December 05, 2010, 07:09:38 pm
Read all abaaaaahd it!

Still Seething 600 (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=32389.msg672664#msg672664)
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Ian H on December 05, 2010, 07:14:15 pm
Thanks for advice as long as it is flat i can put up with the headwinds

You might wish to consider changing your forum name.  ;)
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Chris S on December 05, 2010, 07:15:28 pm
I am planning to do the Seething 600km. Is that fairly flat, would you know?

It'll be as flat as a very flat thing. The highest point in Norfolk is only 103 m high (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beacon_Hill,_Norfolk), and neighbouring Suffolk and Cambridgeshire are hardly any higher. There might be annoying headwinds, though.
Thanks for advice as long as it is flat i can put up with the headwinds

Norfolk and Suffolk are flatter than many counties, but not as flat as fenland. Suffolk is more rolling than Norfolk.

The Seething 600 is an excellent first 600. Lots of friendly TLC.

Riding a 600 is about time. Time on the bike, and potentially time not asleep. These are the defining factors IMHO.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: daimountaingoat on December 05, 2010, 07:25:37 pm
so how do people put up with sleep on these 600kms any tips
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: daimountaingoat on December 05, 2010, 07:26:23 pm
Thanks for advice as long as it is flat i can put up with the headwinds

You might wish to consider changing your forum name.  ;)

Pmsl at changing my forum name
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Heaney on December 05, 2010, 07:29:25 pm
Dai,
I'm blowing my own trumpet but my first Audax was the Brian Chapman 600, I was 10 minutes outside the time. I did it as a preparation for LEL which had grabbed my interest.
I'd done similar mileage to what you have done, Wild Wales and a couple of sportives, so I'd say that if you can do a 100 miles then everything after that is more mental than physical. I'd agree with Blades advice and add that you should make sure your bike is comfortable for you and servicable.

Don't be a sissy though, do something with a few hills in it.
Regards
Steve
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: nightrider on December 05, 2010, 07:31:38 pm
I am pleased somebody started this thread,because I've still to do a 600km ride.The Seething ride looks promising.All this years 600s seem to be a little early this year(because of PBP I think).The other option is to ride with Rich Forrest and Teethgrinder in September.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: hellymedic on December 05, 2010, 07:36:39 pm
Persuade yourself that you can do it.
Learn the difference between major and minor discomforts; know which can be ignored and which must be sorted before they become a major event-stopping pain.
Make a mental list of everything you wish to do at a control before you arrive; do things efficiently, without excessive faffing.
Eat:
In the week before a ride; going hungry might run down glycogen stores.
Regularly on the ride; do not wait for controls. Eat before you're hungry, drink before you're thirsty.
As soon as you stop riding for any reason, especially if that's a p*nct*re or other mechanical. The food's best absorbed when not exercising and a bit more sugar helps clearer thought. (This might also be the last time you have cleanish hands.)
Don't let yourself get to hot, too cold, too tired or too dry. Make sure your clothing is suitable for the weather and you have carrying capacity for excess.
A full bladder can impair performance; deal with this sooner rather than later.
Good luck!
Enjoy Audax!
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Ian H on December 05, 2010, 07:44:49 pm
A first 600 is nearly always an epic event. The sense of achievement at making it is a huge reward. As said above, preparation, at minimum, comes down to doing the lower distances, working up to it. It's difficult to predict whether it will be hard or not so hard, because everyone's different. Just give it your best shot; if you go at it half-arsed you probably won't succeed.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Billy Weir on December 05, 2010, 07:46:48 pm
LEE hit the nail on the head.  If you want to do a 600km in relative comfort, you have to build up to it.

The best way to do that is to get some miles in over the winter, hit doing 200s in March, 300s in April, 400s in May and you'll be pretty much ready for a 600 in June.  Be organised/methodical but don't obsess.

I'd suggest doing 2 400s in May.  One to get your first night time ride out of the way (which is a big hurdle) and the second to try and sort out things that didn't work for you on that first ride.

Having a programme of long rides has a couple of other benefits.  Not least, toughening up your seat bones.  And also testing your equipment out.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: daimountaingoat on December 05, 2010, 07:50:26 pm
Well i am feeling a bit apprehensive about the longer events as i have yet to do over 210kms in ay audax event to date and have i chosen to bite off more than i can chew as the longer eevents are early on in the season due to PBP. Thanks for the advice anyway.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Chris S on December 05, 2010, 07:51:11 pm
Ask Father Christmas to stick a copy of Simon Doughty's book in your stocking this year:

The Long Distance Cyclists' Handbook: Amazon.co.uk: Simon Doughty: Books (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Long-Distance-Cyclists-Handbook/dp/0713668326/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291578534&sr=8-1)

Excellent reading for dark winter nights, and everything - yes, everything you'll ever need to know to build up to, and ride a 600.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: daimountaingoat on December 05, 2010, 07:55:11 pm
Ask Father Christmas to stick a copy of Simon Doughty's book in your stocking this year:

The Long Distance Cyclists' Handbook: Amazon.co.uk: Simon Doughty: Books (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Long-Distance-Cyclists-Handbook/dp/0713668326/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291578534&sr=8-1)

Excellent reading for dark winter nights, and everything - yes, everything you'll ever need to know to build up to, and ride a 600.
I have all ready read his book thanks.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: mattc on December 05, 2010, 07:55:27 pm
Ask Father Christmas to stick a copy of Simon Doughty's book in your stocking this year:

The Long Distance Cyclists' Handbook: Amazon.co.uk: Simon Doughty: Books (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Long-Distance-Cyclists-Handbook/dp/0713668326/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291578534&sr=8-1)

Excellent reading for dark winter nights, and everything - yes, everything you'll ever need to know to build up to, and ride a 600.
Small typo in the description:
Packed with straightforward information, The Long Distance Cyclist's Handbook details the preparation and equipment needed to take a novice from the challenge of a 50-mile charity ride to gearing up and comfortably covering 66 km in a weekend randonnee.  :facepalm:

I thought that book was out of print? Whatever, it always gets good reviews in audax circles.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Chris S on December 05, 2010, 07:56:27 pm
Ask Father Christmas to stick a copy of Simon Doughty's book in your stocking this year:

The Long Distance Cyclists' Handbook: Amazon.co.uk: Simon Doughty: Books (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Long-Distance-Cyclists-Handbook/dp/0713668326/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291578534&sr=8-1)

Excellent reading for dark winter nights, and everything - yes, everything you'll ever need to know to build up to, and ride a 600.
I have all ready read his book thanks.

Excellent.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: αdαmsκι on December 05, 2010, 07:57:50 pm
The faster you are the more sleep you can potentially get on the ride.

If you can, join forces with other riders. My first 400 was ridden with Chris N & TOBY. The weather was grim but we had a laugh and their company made things easier. Good to be with others to get you moving, rather than faffing when it's pissing down.

My first 600 was the Bryan Chapman and I rode it all with Ural Kunst. There's a sleep stop after 390 km and we didn't mess around on Day #1 to ensure we'd get plenty of sleep that night. I think I managed 5½ hours. Day #2 was a relaxed trip back to Chepstow. 
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Manotea on December 05, 2010, 08:01:41 pm
You've already done well by choosing a well attended event with lots of support on the road. Otherwise I'd echo Ian's comment:

Just give it your best shot; if you go at it half-arsed you probably won't succeed.

No need to be gung ho; just focus on enjoying the ride, not on finishing, home, work, whatever.

And whatever you do, don't plan to stop at a mates house for an evening meal just as its starting to get really cold and you've still got a heck of a long way to go before the scheduled sleep break.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: hellymedic on December 05, 2010, 08:02:41 pm
so how do people put up with sleep on these 600kms any tips

I was helped by experience as a junior doctor showing me that I could do without a night's sleep.  ;)

Get eough sleep before the event and try to be prepared to be fresh for a 6am start.
Work a time cushion into your schedule.
Learn which strange body positions allow you effective cat-napping.
If you have enough time and a suitable sleeping place is available, use it.
A 400km ride can be more difficult than a 600 in terms of time for a sleep break and circadian rhythms.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: MSeries on December 05, 2010, 08:07:58 pm
Well i am feeling a bit apprehensive about the longer events as i have yet to do over 210kms in ay audax event to date and have i chosen to bite off more than i can chew as the longer eevents are early on in the season due to PBP. Thanks for the advice anyway.
The longer events are not really any earlier next year than others. 200s from now to end March. 300 in late April early May. 400 around late May BH, 600 mid to late June, such as the Most Excellent Three Coasts 600 - which was my first 600. only four months after my first 200.  BTW you might find flat routes make your backside hurt more, they do mine so I always avoid flat routes, anyway I am not fast enough to keep up with others on flat rides.

As for practical advice that you asked about, you really need to work it out for yourself because everyone is different. I prefer to ride for 20- 24 hours without sleep so I choose a 600 that permits this. No extra points for being first back, 38 hours is fine, so four or five hours off is acceptable for some sleep mid way. I don't sleep on 400s unless I particularly want to kill time to sit out the darkness for example. Have you ridden on conecutive days before ? I mean long rides ? Try it one weekend. Do 100 miles on Saturday then get up early and go out again on Sunday to see how you feel. Remember whatever you eat on the Saturday is your fuel for the Sunday so you need to finish up the first stage in good shape to allow some decent recovery for the second stage. Eat and drink plenty on the first day. I can't sleep if I am dehydrated.

Don't worry, be sensible, build it up, think about each ride once you've done it and try to learn something.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: daimountaingoat on December 05, 2010, 08:14:07 pm
Well i am feeling a bit apprehensive about the longer events as i have yet to do over 210kms in ay audax event to date and have i chosen to bite off more than i can chew as the longer eevents are early on in the season due to PBP. Thanks for the advice anyway.
The longer events are not really any earlier next year than others. 200s from now to end March. 300 in late April early May. 400 around late May BH, 600 mid to late June, such as the Most Excellent Three Coasts 600 - which was my first 600. only four months after my first 200.  BTW you might find flat routes make your backside hurt more, they do mine so I always avoid flat routes, anyway I am not fast enough to keep up with others on flat rides.

As for practical advice that you asked about, you really need to work it out for yourself because everyone is different. I prefer to ride for 20- 24 hours without sleep so I choose a 600 that permits this. No extra points for being first back, 38 hours is fine, so four or five hours off is acceptable for some sleep mid way. I don't sleep on 400s unless I particularly want to kill time to sit out the darkness for example. Have you ridden on conecutive days before ? I mean long rides ? Try it one weekend. Do 100 miles on Saturday then get up early and go out again on Sunday to see how you feel. Remember whatever you eat on the Saturday is your fuel for the Sunday so you need to finish up the first stage in good shape to allow some decent recovery for the second stage. Eat and drink plenty on the first day. I can't sleep if I am dehydrated.

Don't worry, be sensible, build it up, think about each ride once you've done it and try to learn something.
Well i have ridden 2 audax events back to back be them only 150kms each
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: nightrider on December 05, 2010, 08:17:33 pm
Well i am feeling a bit apprehensive about the longer events as i have yet to do over 210kms in ay audax event to date and have i chosen to bite off more than i can chew as the longer eevents are early on in the season due to PBP. Thanks for the advice anyway.
Dai if you do this ride so will I.We can compare notes on here.Go on you want to dont you?
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: MSeries on December 05, 2010, 08:18:44 pm
So you have some idea. Remember though for a multi day 600 you'll do 350-400 on the first day then the rest on the second. So after your 300 think about how you feel. Then think the next day "Could I get up and ride for 10-12 hours now ?" I usually start the second day feel rough as a dog. After a good second breakfast I perk up.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: MattH on December 05, 2010, 08:25:52 pm
So you have some idea. Remember though for a multi day 600 you'll do 350-400 on the first day then the rest on the second. So after your 300 think about how you feel. Then think the next day "Could I get up and ride for 10-12 hours now ?" I usually start the second day feel rough as a dog. After a good second breakfast I perk up.

I don't think it's particularly helpful to think "could I do another <x> hours" at the end of a ride. For me that answer would always be no. I've mentally wound down and am ready to stop. At the end of a century ride I don't feel as if I'm up for riding twice as far again - yet on a very long ride I feel that I'm just getting warmed up after a hundred miles.

Lots of good advice has been given. It's also good to find somebody who rides at a steady pace but is very experienced so you know that as long as you stick with them you'll finish in time. Salvatore got me around my first long rides (300 & 400).
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: fboab on December 05, 2010, 08:32:12 pm
JFDI

Build up gradually, ride within your limits, pushing your envelope a little every time, and try and have fun.

It can't be that difficult, I've done it.

The Seething was a lovely ride this year. And next year I'll be helping, so it'll be even more lovely.  :)

(Not on commission for NorfolknGood)
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: MSeries on December 05, 2010, 08:37:05 pm
So you have some idea. Remember though for a multi day 600 you'll do 350-400 on the first day then the rest on the second. So after your 300 think about how you feel. Then think the next day "Could I get up and ride for 10-12 hours now ?" I usually start the second day feel rough as a dog. After a good second breakfast I perk up.

I don't think it's particularly helpful to think "could I do another <x> hours" at the end of a ride. For me that answer would always be no. I've mentally wound down and am ready to stop. At the end of a century ride I don't feel as if I'm up for riding twice as far again - yet on a very long ride I feel that I'm just getting warmed up after a hundred miles.

I don't either which is why I said what I said and not what you said.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: valkyrie on December 05, 2010, 08:38:16 pm
I don't think it's particularly helpful to think "could I do another <x> hours" at the end of a ride. For me that answer would always be no. I've mentally wound down and am ready to stop. At the end of a century ride I don't feel as if I'm up for riding twice as far again - yet on a very long ride I feel that I'm just getting warmed up after a hundred miles.

This is very true - so don't let yourself get too worried about a 600 if you feel knackered at the end of a 300.

My advice - if you can ride a 200 then you've got the stamina for a 600. Don't think that you need to do lots of long duration training for long duration rides. If you're looking to improve your fitness before a 600 I'd recommend concentrating on speed. A fairly small uplift in your average speed can pay big dividends in giving you more time off the bike and more options for people you can ride with. If you're looking to do a fairly flat route then it's important that you can get into a group and save energy. It's also important to be in a group to keep your sanity, as a flat 600 on your own will have big chunks of real tedium.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: MattH on December 05, 2010, 08:40:44 pm
So you have some idea. Remember though for a multi day 600 you'll do 350-400 on the first day then the rest on the second. So after your 300 think about how you feel. Then think the next day "Could I get up and ride for 10-12 hours now ?" I usually start the second day feel rough as a dog. After a good second breakfast I perk up.

I don't think it's particularly helpful to think "could I do another <x> hours" at the end of a ride. For me that answer would always be no. I've mentally wound down and am ready to stop. At the end of a century ride I don't feel as if I'm up for riding twice as far again - yet on a very long ride I feel that I'm just getting warmed up after a hundred miles.

I don't either which is why I said what I said and not what you said.

Didn't mean to misrepresent you. Similarly, getting on the bike the day after a long ride I don't feel like I could ride far - until I've been on it for a short while and warmed up at which point I generally feel better on the bike than I do walking.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: MSeries on December 05, 2010, 08:47:20 pm
As I said earlier everyone is different. I can only speak from my own experience. I have felt shoite the day after some 200s and 300s  and really wouldn't have contemplated going out again. So I learned from them.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Manotea on December 05, 2010, 08:49:29 pm
Being at the wrong end of Wales with few bail options is wonderfully motivating for getting through the 2nd day, but this isn't an issue on the Seething where you'll knock off 300km well before midnight and then have the choice of getting some kip before a 300km second day or knocking of another 90km first, in which case you'll be back by 3am or so with time for several hours sleep before a leisurely 200km. Or something like that.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Feline on December 05, 2010, 08:50:44 pm
Being at the wrong end of Wales with few bail options is wonderfully motivating for getting through the 2nd day, but this isn't an issue on the Seething where you'll knock off 300km well before midnight and then have the choice of getting some kip before a 300km second day or knocking of another 90km first, in which case you'll be back by 3am or so with time for a several hours sleep before a leisurely 200km. Or something like that.

I really hope it ends up working out nice like that for me  ;D
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: MSeries on December 05, 2010, 08:51:41 pm
He does make sound very very easy. What time does it start ?
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: daimountaingoat on December 05, 2010, 08:56:08 pm
Being at the wrong end of Wales with few bail options is wonderfully motivating for getting through the 2nd day, but this isn't an issue on the Seething where you'll knock off 300km well before midnight and then have the choice of getting some kip before a 300km second day or knocking of another 90km first, in which case you'll be back by 3am or so with time for a several hours sleep before a leisurely 200km. Or something like that.

I really hope it ends up working out nice like that for me  ;D
I,m pretty sure u will be ok once you get ur new fast dream machine  :)
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Manotea on December 05, 2010, 09:01:12 pm
He does make sound very very easy. What time does it start ?

It was 7am this year. It was very strange sitting around after 6am in bright summer sunshine waiting for the off.

Next year we'll be away at a more traditional 6am.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: DrMekon on December 05, 2010, 11:24:46 pm
I'll be doing Seething without having done a 400. In my head, it's a 300 plus a bit more, a rough nights sleep, and a 200. That sounds uncomfortable, but but not impossible. Plus boab said something about cake.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: daimountaingoat on December 05, 2010, 11:40:09 pm
Do the seasoned audaxers on here think that doing a 400kms a week before doing a 600kms is mad?
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Feline on December 05, 2010, 11:41:11 pm
Do the seasoned audaxers on here think that doing a 400kms a week before doing a 600kms is mad?

I have entered a 400k a week and a day before the 600 :P
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Deano on December 05, 2010, 11:42:25 pm
I rode my first 400 the week before my first 600 :)

I'm a bit younger than the average audaxer, though.

It depends how you recover, really, but part of riding such daft distances is fitting it around the rest of your life, so if those two weekends are convenient, give it a go.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Feline on December 05, 2010, 11:44:37 pm
I am hoping that by then I will be fit and have significantly toughened up my derriere so my recovery time will be fast.
I might spend my evenings in January sat on my brooks saddle at the computer in preparation  ;D
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: daimountaingoat on December 05, 2010, 11:46:04 pm
And ur derriere would have to be hardened for that brooks  ;)
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Feline on December 05, 2010, 11:47:20 pm
I have already ridden about 250 miles on it and it isn't that hard already!
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Deano on December 06, 2010, 12:05:07 am
...By the way, the Bryan Chapman ain't that hard, so if you're living in S Wales, then you really should ride it.

What makes it such a special event - apart from the route - is how well you are looked after, and the size of the field. So you get chivvied along by fellow riders on the road, and you waste little time trying to explain audax to the civilian populace, as it's merely a matter of getting to the control.  If you live close to Chepstow, it's a no-brainer.

Riding twice across Wales also gives it a simple narrative, which appeals to me.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: F2H on December 06, 2010, 12:47:44 am
Dai, I'm in a similar boat. I've done a 400 but haven't yet finished a 600. What's stopping me is more mental than physical. I am perfectly happy riding for 10 to 12 hours. At my pace, this gets me roughly half way round a 400 and every km beyond that brings me closer to the finish so my head stays good.

On a 600 this just doesn't work. The thought, after riding for 10 hours, that this time tomorrow I will probably still be on the bloody road crushes me. As everyone else here, I love being out on the bike but, right now, a full day seems to be my limit.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Billy Weir on December 06, 2010, 07:53:53 am
Do the seasoned audaxers on here think that doing a 400kms a week before doing a 600kms is mad?

In your first year of long distance, having done few rides above 200 to date?  It will be challenging but not impossible, provided you are determined to do it and don't pick up a twinge.

My own rule of thumb is that recovery takes around 1 day per 100km.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: LeFlic on December 06, 2010, 08:22:17 am
This is a an interesting thread. I think there are quite a few of us in your position Dai.

I rode my first 300 this year and am now planning my qualifying rides for next August. I am keen to pick up as many tips as possible, route finding in the dark is one of my concerns.

Are you joining those of us in the Bristol area who are planning some get togethers next year?

As an aside, should I be entering events that take place in May and June now? I usually enter about a month ahead.

Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Karla on December 06, 2010, 08:28:29 am
My tips:

Make sure your bike fits you perfectly.  At these very long distances, your body will lose the ability to cope with imperfections that it can cope with on shorter rides.  I had unresolved fit issues on my first 600 and I suffered for it. 

Don't think of it as 600km.  Think of it as 50km to the next control. 

The Seething 600 is an excellent first ride.  You can ride 300km back to the start, strap on your big lights and don an extra layer and eat a good meal, go for a little short bike ride to take you to 400km at the start again, get some sleep and then ride the 200km the next day.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Hummers on December 06, 2010, 08:30:02 am
Another personal view but depending how fit you are, a 600 is either a pleasureable 400 + a 200 separated by ~6 hours off the bike overnight or a reasonably paced ~30 hour ride. 400s are quite often organised in such a way that an overnight sleep stop is neither practical or catered for whilst it is not hard to find 600 events where there will somewhere to get off the road for a kip or there is something organised for you. For that reaon, I'd rather ride two good 600s than a 400 + 600.

As has been said, we are all different but I wouldn't want to ride a 400 the week before a 600 unless I really had to.  Two weeks before seems to be the optimum for me but there are plenty of people that have done a whole SR series by riding on consecutive weekends. Ideally, I'd leave three weeks between >400k events but to a degree, it makes a difference how tough the rides are although my reckoning is that all rides over 300k are going to be a challenge at some point and should not be underestimated.

H
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Billy Weir on December 06, 2010, 09:27:10 am
As an aside, should I be entering events that take place in May and June now? I usually enter about a month ahead.

In PBP years, many people enter earlier than they would usually (usual being 2 to 4 weeks in advance).  That said, people entering events now are making a statement of intent more than anything else.  A month will be fine, unless the thought of not entering is biting away at your insides.  In which case, get it out of the way.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Ian H on December 06, 2010, 09:29:35 am
I rode my first 300 a week before my first 600. That seemed to work (it was quite a long time ago). The main thing is to prepare well so that the 400 doesn't exhaust you. Then ensure you sleep well during the intervening week, with just a few miles on the bike to keep the legs turning.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: daimountaingoat on December 06, 2010, 09:59:49 am
Just like to say thanks for all the tips will take them all onboard. Have never ridden through the night before so that should be an experience.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Jethro on December 06, 2010, 11:00:28 am
I like to have at least 3-weeks between a 400 and a 600.  A 400 is still a long ride which I find takes a bit out of me mentally, therefore a relatively easy 3 or 4 week period allows me to recover mentally so that I am then ready for a 600.

Rode the Seething 600 this year but didnt finish.  Was not as flat as I thought it would be (Norfolk, Suffolk still has some hills!)  The main reason though was lack of sleep the night before (very noisy hotel).
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: vorsprung on December 06, 2010, 11:09:08 am
My top ten sleep tips

LEL preparation  (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=12336.msg208226#msg208226)

This post got recycled as a Arrive magazine article
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Fidgetbuzz on December 06, 2010, 11:12:03 am
Well this thread asks for tips - so I guess sharing past experience may add something useful. OK - back to 2007 and PBP.
general background - old --- 65 then - can do endurance - 5 London marathons in my 40's in useful times.
had audaxed a bit pre 2007 - longest a flat Mildenhall 300. Decided to give PBP a go to mark the significant point of being a pensioner. Was doing about 4000 miles a year on a made to measure bike ( see Mr Bunbury's tip  - bike must fit you)
So timing of my qualifying rides was
17th march Up the Uts 200
8th april 300 from Ruislip
5th may Severn across 400
26th may beast from the east 600

there were other long rides - including a start at midnight to ride 160 miles to friends - to see how a midnight start went.

i did not like the BftE 600 - it was wet, windy and unpleasant, finishing in about 39 hours and I seriously doubted my ability to do a 1200.
good friends persuaded me that as I was now qualified for PBP -- I would regret it all my life if I did not at least give it a go.
Chose to ride cambrian 600 on 9th June ( which also included my first ever AA points)- to see whether another 600 would make a 1200 seem more possible. It was better - and at the finish when i still questioned how the heck would I now do another 600 straight off -Francis told me - that if I wanted it enough - i just would.

I did want it - so in the end - just have the mental strength and keep pedalling - and you will do it.

A 400 followed a week later by a 600 sounds hard to me - but it must be possible - even if it is not the build up pattern that I would go for.

Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: mattc on December 06, 2010, 11:20:28 am
Don't think of it as 600km.  Think of it as 50km to the next control. 
Oft-said, always true.

We can adapt this to the issue discussed here:
The day after a 300k, d'ya feel able to ride another 50km?

If so, you can probably ride 600k, 1200k ...
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: GrahamG on December 06, 2010, 11:21:22 am
This has been a useful thread, I'm aiming for an SR culminating in the BCM - I've been really down this week after the weather took it's toll (spill on ice at the weekend saw me just give up on any riding!), but now I think I'll just hit the turbo and when that gets too excruciatingly boring, just ride the roads that get gritted.  
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Manotea on December 06, 2010, 11:35:22 am
Be aware that many riders, er, that would be me, find a 400 the hardest distance to ride. So unless you're 'feeling strong' I'd leave a couple of weeks between a first 4 & 6 to allow time to recover mentally as well as physically, to 'process' the experience, as it were. I often enjoy a ride more in retrospect than the actualite.  Having said that the dynamics of a 400 and a 600 are completely different. Just don't be surprised if you find your first 400 'hard', and don't let it put you off. HTH...
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: AndyH on December 06, 2010, 11:48:12 am
Do the seasoned audaxers on here think that doing a 400kms a week before doing a 600kms is mad?
Possibly. Character building, perhaps, risky definately. If the 400 goes well it will give you a mental boost for the 6, but if it goes badly it will make the 600 a bigger mental mountain to climb, so you need to make sure you are well prepared for the 400. Also assuming this will be your 1st 400 you won't know how long you need to recover.

Not that I am a seasoned audaxer, but my 2 week build up to my (only) 600 was:
Mon - Thursday - 50K commute
Fri - Sat, rest
Sun - 290K (200K audax plus ride there & back)
Mon - Fri - Didn't even think about riding
Sat - Sun - the 600

I think the 5 days off the bike before the event helped.

My tips -
keep eating, & drinking, Zero / nuun tablets work for me in the drink. You will be amazed at how much you can eat.
I've generally stopped using energy gels & drinks, food seems to work.
The only "energy" products I bother with is the stuff with added caffeine for when I feel sleepy.
Make sure you get used to riding in a bunch, given the opportunity it helps to be part of a group.

I found "The British" harder than the 600, Dai. Which was probably because I was under prepared mentally for the British.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Andrew on December 06, 2010, 11:54:24 am
Be aware that many riders, er, that would be me, find a 400 the hardest distance to ride.

I do too... but I suspect it's psychological and I've put a barrier there! I don't feel I'm quick enough to bank enough time to get a decent sleep AND still have a comfortable amount of time to finish in. So I ride it straight through and maybe 'power nap' once or twice. For some weird and wonderful reason, it just feels like more of an endurance effort than a 600.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: EdinburghFixed on December 06, 2010, 12:07:05 pm
I rode a 600k this summer, less than a year after riding my first 200k (and never having ridden longer than 200k).

To be completely honest I didn't find it that much harder than riding a 200k - I just kept plodding along and the miles kept creeping past.

Eating and drinking enough was a worry, and to be honest I survived by drinking diluted fresh orange with added salt (plus a poke of chips at the halfway point). Whether you are like this, or have the appetite of a horse you'll need to discover!

I am not very fast - but even so it was more of a mental challenge than a physical one. There were some hard times when my achilles started playing up, I had overslept and was running close to the wire into a ferocious headwind... but still, I felt I finished the 600k feeling better than I have finished a few "fast" 200k rides!

Go for it I say. It was a great adventure.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Nonsteeler on December 06, 2010, 12:32:09 pm
Oh I love this thread, this delicate mixture of bragging and giving advice. Great  :thumbsup:

Take the preparation very serious, training, which is obvious, but also the 'little' things, like fixing puncture or a bent derailer, what luggage you take on board, what you do if a PITA occurs and stays, how do deal with eating, breaks sleep etc. Extensive perpetration will not prepare you for everything but it often can free your mind which helps for not taking the event too serious (which is my advice).  Take the perpetration serious but not the event. It is ok be tense before the 600 but during the event make it as enjoyable as possible by not worrying too much. Shit happens or not, usually sheer luck and good perpetration make the difference.

Have never ridden through the night before so that should be an experience.
Just give it a go, after 12h at work ride another 7 through the darkness. Or start your commute at 3am with an extra loop. It  gives you an idea how you feel under sleep deprivation and isn't so difficult integrate into 'normal' life.


Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Manotea on December 06, 2010, 12:44:17 pm
Oh I love this thread, this delicate mixture of bragging and giving advice. Great  :thumbsup:

Has anybody said, "It's not that difficult, even I can do itTM M.Volio" yet?

sheer luck and good perpetration makes the difference.

Yep, if you're going to perp, perp proudly, not like a thief in the night.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: hellymedic on December 06, 2010, 12:57:20 pm
[William Blake]
Every night and every morn
Some to misery are born,
Every morn and every night
Some are born to sweet delight.

Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night.
---------------------------------

There's something of a 400 which spells Endless Night in a way that doesn't happen in a 600...
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Billy Weir on December 06, 2010, 12:58:43 pm
[William Blake]
Every night and every morn
Some to misery are born,
Every morn and every night
Some are born to sweet delight.

Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night.
---------------------------------

There's something of a 400 which spells Endless Night in a way that doesn't happen in a 600...

Some reach the end and feel alright
Whilst others end up feeling shi...
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Greenbank on December 06, 2010, 01:01:17 pm
The more physically prepared you are the less you'll need to rely on mental strength to get you through.

But even with the best physical preparation you're still going to need to rely on some mental strength to stop you giving up. This is why building up to events is good as it gives you a taste of what lies ahead.

If you get to 350km of a 600km ride and feel like you just can't go on you might just give up.

If you get to 350km of a 400km ride and feel like you just can't go on you may push yourself on since it's only another 50km and it'd be a shame to give up so close. When you do and you start to feel better an hour later and realise it was only a phase you'll remember that for the 600, just in case you feel the same at that same stage.

Now when you get that same feeling of dread 350km into a 600km ride you know you should just ride through it and see how you feel an hour or two later. More than likely you'll be fine and you'll plod on to the finish (probably via another couple of low points along the way...)

As for a 400 with a 600 the following weekends. It's brave if you've never done those distances before, but it's not impossible. Especially since plenty of people have ridden 1000km+ events (imagine doing the 400 then starting a 600 almost straight away), sometimes as their first real distance events (several people did LEL 1400km as their first Audax).
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Manotea on December 06, 2010, 01:39:19 pm
[William Blake]
Every night and every morn
Some to misery are born,
Every morn and every night
Some are born to sweet delight.

Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night.
---------------------------------

There's something of a 400 which spells Endless Night in a way that doesn't happen in a 600...

Some reach the end and feel alright
Whilst others end up feeling shi...

I shall be forwarding this to the editor of Arrivee under the heading of "Ode to Himself (McNasty)"!
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Billy Weir on December 06, 2010, 01:44:30 pm
Quote
The more physically prepared you are the less you'll need to rely on mental strength to get you through.

Addendum: but don't overprepare, otherwise you may lose motivation or your body might rebel.

These things are all about balance.  I've seen many of the great and the good in our activity go through extended periods of down time because it all got just a little too familiar.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: fboab on December 06, 2010, 01:45:52 pm

Has anybody said, "It's not that difficult, even I can do itTM M.Volio" yet?



It can't be that difficult, I've done it.


 ::-)
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Nonsteeler on December 06, 2010, 01:57:37 pm
Oh I love this thread, this delicate mixture of bragging and giving advice. Great  :thumbsup:
Has anybody said, "It's not that difficult, even I can do itTM M.Volio" yet?

Yes I know it is sometimes so difficult to get the balance right between bragging and advice, you see. After finishing last year's K&SW on my unicycle, riding backwards while finishing my latest book 'One theory for everything: The ultimate physicist dream - accomplished', I can only advice you to prioritise mental strength over...
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: LEE on December 06, 2010, 02:01:04 pm
Be aware that many riders, er, that would be me, find a 400 the hardest distance to ride.

I do too... but I suspect it's psychological and I've put a barrier there! I don't feel I'm quick enough to bank enough time to get a decent sleep AND still have a comfortable amount of time to finish in. So I ride it straight through and maybe 'power nap' once or twice. For some weird and wonderful reason, it just feels like more of an endurance effort than a 600.

I find 400s tough but I find that a 600 feels almost exactly like a tough 400 followed immediately by a 200 where any part of my bike is painful to touch.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: MattH on December 06, 2010, 02:14:03 pm
I'll join the "don't like 400s" crowd. 300 is a good day ride, 600 is a good weekend.

400 just seems to destroy the weekend (as the following day is a dead one anyway - too tired to do anything), so if I'm going to do that I might as well do a 600 (or ride to/from the 400).
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: mattc on December 06, 2010, 02:23:11 pm
Although I find 6s much harder than 4s*, I agree with Matt. Which is why I prefer 500s!

I've done 4 SRs, only 2x400s (one of which was my route-check).

[*Anyone that thinks otherwise, it really is all in your head! :)  ]

Back on track:

Have never ridden through the night before so that should be an experience.
Just give it a go, after 12h at work ride another 7 through the darkness. Or start your commute at 3am with an extra loop. It  gives you an idea how you feel under sleep deprivation and isn't so difficult integrate into 'normal' life.

A good alternative is to join an organised night ride, e.g. FNRttC (if you can get to Hyde Park easily), or the Oxford franchise. I found this an excellent stepping-stone.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Nonsteeler on December 06, 2010, 03:12:10 pm
Have never ridden through the night before so that should be an experience.
Just give it a go, after 12h at work ride another 7 through the darkness. Or start your commute at 3am with an extra loop. It  gives you an idea how you feel under sleep deprivation and isn't so difficult integrate into 'normal' life.
A good alternative is to join an organised night ride, e.g. FNRttC (if you can get to Hyde Park easily), or the Oxford franchise. I found this an excellent stepping-stone.

Also excellent and in the South West (from Bristol) but only once per anum : Exmouth Exodus, see: Ride through the night to the seaside! Exmouth Exodus (http://www.exmouthexodus.co.uk/)

Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: mattc on December 06, 2010, 03:14:39 pm
I was going to mention the Exodus, but being in late June makes it a little unhelpful as part of a 2011 PBP campaign!
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: ian_oli on December 06, 2010, 03:22:40 pm
My own tips for first 600 would be

1/ takes spares of mitts/shorts/socks - the items that take pressure. This is because you might find what you start the ride in may become very uncomfortable over such a distance with blisters and the like. And try and take replacements that are different, for example thin socks as a replacement for thick ones.

2/ Keep salt intake up: Nuun tablets are good and some cheese, ham, salami etc. amongst the all cakes are good.  You'll feel better and keep eating better.

3/ If you find you get any aches/pain/numbness from shorter rides, it will probably get worse the more you do, so build up distance and correct problems carefully. Also if you have any old chronic injuries they might flare up. Exercises for your core muscles (light weights, pilates etc.) over the winter once or twice a week can help.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Nonsteeler on December 06, 2010, 03:22:59 pm
I was going to mention the Exodus, but being in late June makes it a little unhelpful as part of a 2011 PBP campaign!
Yup, where was my head? Then just consider it as a proud plug for an event I have no particular affiliation other than participating once for fun with no hidden training agenda...
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Feline on December 06, 2010, 03:26:28 pm
I will be riding the Exodus, I missed it this year because I hadn't yet taken up cycling in May this year. I will just consider it fitness training in the PBP run up :)
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Panoramix on December 06, 2010, 03:27:56 pm
I'll join the "don't like 400s" crowd. 300 is a good day ride, 600 is a good weekend.

400 just seems to destroy the weekend (as the following day is a dead one anyway - too tired to do anything), so if I'm going to do that I might as well do a 600 (or ride to/from the 400).

+1

I also find that 300s are an extremely useful preparation.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: mattc on December 06, 2010, 03:28:36 pm
I was going to mention the Exodus, but being in late June makes it a little unhelpful as part of a 2011 PBP campaign!
Yup, where was my head? Then just consider it as a proud plug for an event I have no particular affiliation other than participating once for fun with no hidden training agenda...
Perhaps some kind souls could run a route-check event on a warm night in April :)

Looking at the profile it might be really good PBP prep, what with the night-time start and several long 5% climbs.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: LEE on December 06, 2010, 03:29:13 pm
My own tips for first 600 would be

1/ takes spares of mitts/shorts/socks - the items that take pressure. This is because you might find what you start the ride in may become very uncomfortable over such a distance with blisters and the like. And try and take replacements that are different, for example thin socks as a replacement for thick ones.

2/ Keep salt intake up: Nuun tablets are good and some cheese, ham, salami etc. amongst the all cakes are good.  You'll feel better and keep eating better.

3/ If you find you get any aches/pain/numbness from shorter rides, it will probably get worse the more you do, so build up distance and correct problems carefully. Also if you have any old chronic injuries they might flare up. Exercises for your core muscles (light weights, pilates etc.) over the winter once or twice a week can help.

Agreed here.  This is why it's good to build up to a 600.  It's very unlikely that any discomfort experienced on a 200/300 will get better during the subsequent 300/400km.  Get any discomfort issues fixed before embarking on a 400/600, because everything seems a little bit worse at 4am, when there's only a small section of illuminated tarmac to look at and occupy your mind.  

Corollary: Nice scenery is an effective pain-killer.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: steveindenmark on December 06, 2010, 03:56:22 pm
I find this interesting.

Until about a month ago I had never heard of Audax but I like the idea of "Orienteering" on a bike.
But then again I am not a cyclist. I think the furthest I have ever ridden in a day is about 30 miles and that was years ago.
I am now 52 years old, a bit overweight and not really fit.

My biggest problem is that someone on one of these sites told me about PBP in 2011 and that it only runs every 4 years. I have no option but to do it this year because I could be brown bread in 4 years....you never know.

Anyway I do not like diamond frame bikes because they hurt all my old motorbike injuries so I have ordered a Bacchetta Giro 26 recumbent bike which will arrive at my home in denmark next week. The fact that I have a metre of snow outside my door and that it was -15 last night is only a small problem. Not having ever ridden a 2 wheeled recumbent is a slightly bigger problem.

My first "Modification" will be to fit my flask holder from BikeBuddy because I am not riding around in this weather without hot coffee. The first 200 I can find within a reasonable distance of where I live is in Kiel, Germany on March 5th and that is about 3 hours away, depending on how much snow we have between now and then.

This is my personal challenge for 2011.

I know I can do the SR and the PBP who wants to bet against it?  ;D

Steve
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Dan_K on December 06, 2010, 04:19:49 pm
I find this interesting.

Until about a month ago I had never heard of Audax but I like the idea of "Orienteering" on a bike.
But then again I am not a cyclist. I think the furthest I have ever ridden in a day is about 30 miles and that was years ago.
I am now 52 years old, a bit overweight and not really fit.

My biggest problem is that someone on one of these sites told me about PBP in 2011 and that it only runs every 4 years. I have no option but to do it this year because I could be brown bread in 4 years....you never know.

Anyway I do not like diamond frame bikes because they hurt all my old motorbike injuries so I have ordered a Bacchetta Giro 26 recumbent bike which will arrive at my home in denmark next week. The fact that I have a metre of snow outside my door and that it was -15 last night is only a small problem. Not having ever ridden a 2 wheeled recumbent is a slightly bigger problem.

My first "Modification" will be to fit my flask holder from BikeBuddy because I am not riding around in this weather without hot coffee. The first 200 I can find within a reasonable distance of where I live is in Kiel, Germany on March 5th and that is about 3 hours away, depending on how much snow we have between now and then.

This is my personal challenge for 2011.

I know I can do the SR and the PBP who wants to bet against it?  ;D

Steve

I admire your optimism. Best of luck Steve!
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: LEE on December 06, 2010, 04:29:05 pm
I find this interesting.

Until about a month ago I had never heard of Audax but I like the idea of "Orienteering" on a bike.
But then again I am not a cyclist. I think the furthest I have ever ridden in a day is about 30 miles and that was years ago.
I am now 52 years old, a bit overweight and not really fit.

My biggest problem is that someone on one of these sites told me about PBP in 2011 and that it only runs every 4 years. I have no option but to do it this year because I could be brown bread in 4 years....you never know.

Anyway I do not like diamond frame bikes because they hurt all my old motorbike injuries so I have ordered a Bacchetta Giro 26 recumbent bike which will arrive at my home in denmark next week. The fact that I have a metre of snow outside my door and that it was -15 last night is only a small problem. Not having ever ridden a 2 wheeled recumbent is a slightly bigger problem.

My first "Modification" will be to fit my flask holder from BikeBuddy because I am not riding around in this weather without hot coffee. The first 200 I can find within a reasonable distance of where I live is in Kiel, Germany on March 5th and that is about 3 hours away, depending on how much snow we have between now and then.

This is my personal challenge for 2011.

I know I can do the SR and the PBP who wants to bet against it?  ;D

Steve

Well, based on the following statements:

Quote
But then again I am not a cyclist. I think the furthest I have ever ridden in a day is about 30 miles and that was years ago.
I am now 52 years old, a bit overweight and not really fit.

and

Quote
The first 200 I can find within a reasonable distance of where I live is in Kiel, Germany on March 5th and that is about 3 hours away, depending on how much snow we have between now and then.


and

Quote
Not having ever ridden a 2 wheeled recumbent is a slightly bigger problem.


I'll bet £5 against you completing PBP.  

There, you have some motivation now.

Seriously, it will be some achievement to go from 30 miles maximum distance to over 750 miles between March and August (on a new type of bike especially). 

Maybe you have some inner fitness that I didn't have but it's tough enough to get over that 100 mile/160km barrier initially from a base of only 30 miles.

Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: AndyH on December 06, 2010, 05:02:53 pm
Would you go to 6 euros if you have to pay it in Paris, at the End, Lee ?
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Billy Weir on December 06, 2010, 05:13:29 pm
Corollary: Nice scenery is an effective pain-killer....but ibuprofen is better.

FTFY
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: LEE on December 06, 2010, 05:28:12 pm
Would you go to 6 euros if you have to pay it in Paris, at the End, Lee ?

Yes.  if he goes from 30 miles max to completing PBP then I'll happily hand over 6 Euros as congratulations, because it will be an amazing achievement.

Just out of interest, how many times have you ridden 30 miles steveindenmark ?

I suppose 30 miles a day commuting puts you in a different league to, say, riding it a couple of times in summer but still, even 100 miles is a long way, you still have Glycogen left after 30 miles, your body hasn't started tearing fat off your bones at that point.  Your saddle still feels comfortable after 30 miles.  Rain isn't an issue on a 30 mile ride because you're only an hour from home.


I look forward to reading about your 200 in March.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Maverick on December 06, 2010, 05:45:31 pm
Loads of great advice here. I would add one more thing - have a plan. By this I mean have some realistic idea of how long you will take between each control and how much time you will spend at each control and then keep track of how much time it gives you "in hand". then be prepared to throw it all away! I do 2 plans, an ideal schedule and a worse case senario and then keep track of whereabouts I am between them. This helps me keep things in perspective - losing time through a mechanical or needing extra sleep/rest doesn't seem such a disaster or seem so stressful if you can see you can still make controls/finish in time.
FWIW I did my first 400 a week before my first 600 last year. However I did a lot of miles on 200 and 300s leading up to them including a number of back to back rides.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: frankly frankie on December 06, 2010, 06:23:07 pm
As for practical advice that you asked about, you really need to work it out for yourself

This is by far the best advice I've read in this thread.
Sorry.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: arvid on December 06, 2010, 06:40:33 pm
 Your saddle still feels comfortable after 30 miles.

This is a lie. Lucky for Steveindenmark he is wise enough to cheat.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: mattc on December 06, 2010, 06:54:02 pm
I used Steve's testimony as a test of a new option in Google Translate (blokespeak-to-english):

Until about a month ago I had never heard of Audax but I like the idea of "Orienteering" on a bike.
But then again I am not a cyclist. I think the furthest I have ever ridden in a day is about 30 miles and that was 2 years ago, when I worked as a unicycling coal-delivery man.

...
I am now 52 years old, a bit overweight (2kg heavier than my schooldays) and not really fit - I have never run a marathon faster than 2h35m, and often only row twice a week.

The first 200 I can find within a reasonable distance of where I live is in Kiel, Germany on March 5th , so I shall ride Teethgrinder's January 600.

I know I can do the SR and the PBP who wants to bet against it?  ;D

;)
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: hellymedic on December 06, 2010, 07:54:45 pm
As for practical advice that you asked about, you really need to work it out for yourself

This is by far the best advice I've read in this thread.
Sorry.

You do have to work things out for yourself but the advice to learn from every ride is wise.
After every event make a note of things you wanted but did not have and of things you had but did not need.
Djust packing for next ride accordingly.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: LEE on December 06, 2010, 08:34:06 pm
I used Steve's testimony as a test of a new option in Google Translate (blokespeak-to-english):

Until about a month ago I had never heard of Audax but I like the idea of "Orienteering" on a bike.
But then again I am not a cyclist. I think the furthest I have ever ridden in a day is about 30 miles and that was 2 years ago, when I worked as a unicycling coal-delivery man.

...
I am now 52 years old, a bit overweight (2kg heavier than my schooldays) and not really fit - I have never run a marathon faster than 2h35m, and often only row twice a week.

The first 200 I can find within a reasonable distance of where I live is in Kiel, Germany on March 5th , so I shall ride Teethgrinder's January 600.

I know I can do the SR and the PBP who wants to bet against it?  ;D

;)

Yes, I also suspect we don't know the whole truth and there's some false modesty involved.

"Middle aged, unfit, not done it for years", cyclists would normally target London-Brighton, and be rightly pleased if they completed it.

Come on now Steveindenmark, own up...what's your sporting background?  Are you Sir Ranulph Fiennes OBE?
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Ian H on December 06, 2010, 08:40:47 pm

Come on now Steveindenmark, own up...what's your sporting background?  Are you Sir Ranulph Fiennes OBE?

Don't think so. He's typing as if he's got all his fingers.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Mad Jack on December 06, 2010, 09:04:09 pm

Don't think so. He's typing as if he's got all his fingers.

Well i@m typing this using my thumbs, how can you tell!
R click on d mouse is a different story>>  ;D
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: zigzag on December 06, 2010, 09:48:06 pm
a lot of good advice here, but each person is different and the only way to find out what works and what not is by doing it. quite a lot of riders crave for some salty foot for example, but i never felt the need for salt as i sweat very little. i started and finished with the same long sleeve jersey which wasn't smelly after 1000 miles ::-) (i took a shower once during the ride).
the way i see the target helps me through the ride. if the ride is 600k, then 600 is the only number that matters during the ride. all the distance in between is irrelevant and not important. i enjoy the scenery, good company on a ride and lengthy stops at controls, but what matters most is the finishing of the event. my body likes to complain if it's been put out of comfort zone, but brain doesn't give in - it knows that after few hundred km the life will be as usual. that's where the focus should be.
regarding 400 and 600 after one week - it wouldn't be my choice, unless i needed to do it for some reason. i'd still feel a bit tired before 600, and especially if the weather is rough, i'd simply fail to start. it would be hard to find motivation. but i hope you'll have that motivation and finish all your rides successfully.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: daimountaingoat on December 06, 2010, 10:27:51 pm
Thanks to everyone for their advice on this topic
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: EdinburghFixed on December 07, 2010, 09:30:11 am
Little lessons I have learned in my (very short) time as a randonneur:

- spend as little time off the bike as possible.

Imagine a fifty kilometre stage between controls, and that you spend an extra fifteen minutes ordering something that isn't ready to eat and fiddling with your saddle height. Rather than ride to the next control at a healthy moving average of 15mph, you would need to average 17mph to catch up. That's a lot faster, and the longer you take off the bike, the speed required on the bike to balance out grows exponentially.

- at any control, only order something that you can see is literally ready to eat.

On my first 200k I spent a whopping forty-five minutes waiting for soup and bread, which seemed like me to be a safe choice speed-wise, but I was wrong! Compared with a hypothetical version of myself who chose a cake that existed right then, I'd have had to cover the next fifty kilometres at 23.5mph instead of 15mph.

Imagine this happened at all ten controls of a 600k - you'd have lost seven and a half hours of time, which effectively raises the required average speed from 15kph to 18.5kph.

- don't try to go fast!

You don't actually have to ride quickly to get around an audax in comfort, if you ride at just 20kph (12.5mph) you bank an hour of time for every three hours ridden, or ten hours total over a 600k. Freewheel down hills. Resist the temptation to chase riders who are a million times fitter than you.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Hummers on December 07, 2010, 09:52:11 am
I think the value of getting the sleep budget bumped up in the week before a 600 has already been mentioned and on the three 600s I have DNFd, what happened the previous week and what I was doing the following week was a determining factor far more than my level of physical fitness.

Bearing in mind that most 600s start early on a Saturday morning, if you turn up physically fit enough but completely mentally exhausted after a tough week at work with a string of late nights/early mornings behind you then it can make the ride pretty tough. I failed on my first 600 (Bryan Chapman), another ride in 2008 (Midhust 600) and a solo Perm 600 (the Hellfire) because of this.

In terms of the following week's pressures; on the BCM I needed to be in London on the Monday morning at 8am and couldn't see how this was going to happen as I had started late and was at the back of the field in bad weather.  With the Midhurst 600 I really couldn't be arsed to spend the night lying on a bag of charcoal briquettes in a service station when there was a party to go to in Pompey. With the Hellfire, I had had a row with Mrs H and wasn't feeling well before I even started culminating in a grim turn just before the night section that left me worried about screwing up riding  LEL (which was in 3 weeks time).

In all circumstances, I would have been better off staying at home as finding you have lost the will to live or can't be arsed to continue 200k into a 600 can be a costly affair.

On a cheerier note, just because you fail once doesn't mean it's beyond your reach. Since the DNFs, I have done the Hellfire twice and the BCM once and will probably be riding the Midhurst 600 this year.

H
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Manotea on December 07, 2010, 11:12:53 am
- at any control, only order something that you can see is literally ready to eat.
And if in doubt, pick it up and start eating it. Nothing more frustrating than making a 'quick' stop in a tearoom and ordering a scone from the pile on the counter then waiting 15 minutes for them to serve it on a plate and doilly!

See also: Definition of Frustration.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: jogler on December 07, 2010, 01:19:32 pm
This is an excellent thread.Very informative & much of the advice is applicable to any ride.It is to me anyways.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Greenbank on December 07, 2010, 01:52:02 pm
- at any control, only order something that you can see is literally ready to eat.
And if in doubt, pick it up and start eating it. Nothing more frustrating than making a 'quick' stop in a tearoom and ordering a scone from the pile on the counter then waiting 15 minutes for them to serve it on a plate and doilly!

If necessary, be prepared to eat things in the order they arrive, ideally after taking something from the counter there and then (cake, bread, mars bar, etc).

At Shobdon (first control on Elenith) I usually order a cooked breakfast and also get a slice of lemon drizzle cake. Service there isn't slow by an means, but the breakfast usually arrives around the time I've finished eating the lemon drizzle cake.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: LEE on December 07, 2010, 01:56:25 pm
Little lessons I have learned in my (very short) time as a randonneur:

- spend as little time off the bike as possible.

Imagine a fifty kilometre stage between controls, and that you spend an extra fifteen minutes ordering something that isn't ready to eat and fiddling with your saddle height. Rather than ride to the next control at a healthy moving average of 15mph, you would need to average 17mph to catch up. That's a lot faster, and the longer you take off the bike, the speed required on the bike to balance out grows exponentially.

- at any control, only order something that you can see is literally ready to eat.

On my first 200k I spent a whopping forty-five minutes waiting for soup and bread, which seemed like me to be a safe choice speed-wise, but I was wrong! Compared with a hypothetical version of myself who chose a cake that existed right then, I'd have had to cover the next fifty kilometres at 23.5mph instead of 15mph.

Imagine this happened at all ten controls of a 600k - you'd have lost seven and a half hours of time, which effectively raises the required average speed from 15kph to 18.5kph.

- don't try to go fast!

You don't actually have to ride quickly to get around an audax in comfort, if you ride at just 20kph (12.5mph) you bank an hour of time for every three hours ridden, or ten hours total over a 600k. Freewheel down hills. Resist the temptation to chase riders who are a million times fitter than you.

This is called "NDA" (c) LEE@YACF (No Dicking About).  You almost always regret dicking about in controls so it's just best not to.  If you are going to dick about then dick about in the final control, with 50km to go.

Adopt a Mantra when you arrive at a control - "don't forget brevet card, don't forget water bottles, order food, stamp brevet, get water bottles filled, eat food and go".

Basically you can sit and wait for food to arrive or you can do all those "admin jobs" whilst waiting for it to arrive.

I never do any of this and always regret it.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: fboab on December 07, 2010, 02:24:14 pm
When I ride with him he orders the food and sorts the cards, I do the water bottles, use the facilities and get nagged for drinking too slowly.
Never any control DA when he's in charge.
When I ride with the good captain he is always first to say "come on then".

Choose your companions carefully...
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: hellymedic on December 07, 2010, 02:24:25 pm
Certainly, faffing should be minimised; I don't know if I ever could 'dick'!
Eating a 'pudding' first makes sense in many ways and certainly helped me. A nice 'quick carb' boost to recharge the muscles, while the greasy, slowly-absorbed proteins are being laboriously prepared.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: mmmmartin on December 07, 2010, 02:50:47 pm
on the short and easy rides I do, which are designed for children and old ladies, I try to remain in contact with the bike at all times, and don't sit down. once one is sitting, one is doomed. obviously you can't always follow this rule, but I've found it to be quite useful.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Ian H on December 07, 2010, 02:55:07 pm
Oh dear. I'm doing it all wrong.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Chris S on December 07, 2010, 03:08:41 pm
Now would be the wrong time to own up to pubbe visits, I guess?
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Hummers on December 07, 2010, 03:11:08 pm
When I ride with him he orders the food and sorts the cards, I do the water bottles, use the facilities and get nagged for drinking too slowly.
Never any control DA when he's in charge.
When I ride with the good captain he is always first to say "come on then".

Choose your companions carefully...

Yes, there is always time for DA later.

H
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: ian_oli on December 07, 2010, 03:13:13 pm
Eating a 'pudding' first makes sense in many ways and certainly helped me. A nice 'quick carb' boost to recharge the muscles, while the greasy, slowly-absorbed proteins are being laboriously prepared.


Control+Cake+fry up+Steep hill within next 5 miles = My imitation of British High St at 1am on a Sunday morning
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Feline on December 07, 2010, 03:15:03 pm
One of the things that worries me on audaxs is leaving my bike outside places, particularly when I will be riding my N+1 with its nice Ti frame and 2 grand price ticket. Does anyone actually ride 600km with a Kryptonite lock on board? How do you all deal with going into controls and having your bike out of sight?
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Ian H on December 07, 2010, 03:16:00 pm
Now would be the wrong time to own up to [censored], I guess?
Yes. We should be setting a good example.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Ian H on December 07, 2010, 03:18:08 pm
One of the things that worries me on audaxs is leaving my bike outside places, particularly when I will be riding my N+1 with its nice Ti frame and 2 grand price ticket. Does anyone actually ride 600km with a Kryptonite lock on board? How do you all deal with going into controls and having your bike out of sight?

I lock my Ti bike with a moderately hefty cable lock, but quite often leave the ancient steel fixed unsecured.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: hellymedic on December 07, 2010, 03:20:08 pm
Eating a 'pudding' first makes sense in many ways and certainly helped me. A nice 'quick carb' boost to recharge the muscles, while the greasy, slowly-absorbed proteins are being laboriously prepared.


Control+Cake+fry up+Steep hill within next 5 miles = My imitation of British High St at 1am on a Sunday morning

I seldom touch fried food. Difficult to avoid at The Mariners. I kept my meal down - just. Others were not so lucky...
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Karla on December 07, 2010, 03:26:17 pm
One of the things that worries me on audaxs is leaving my bike outside places, particularly when I will be riding my N+1 with its nice Ti frame and 2 grand price ticket. Does anyone actually ride 600km with a Kryptonite lock on board? How do you all deal with going into controls and having your bike out of sight?
Yes: I've ridden a 400 and a 600 with TStones of this parish, and he's carried a Krypto Mini D on both rides.  

I may take a tiny cafe lock on longer events (EDIT: The same as the one linked by Greenbank, below) , but I reckon that if I'm using commercial controls, I need never let the bike out of my sight, or at least if it's a big place then I'll wheel it into the foyer and give a 400km stinky stare to anyone who objects.  If, on the other hand, the controls are dedicated affairs like on the Seething this year, there's enough buzz around the place that I don't worry about leaving the bike outside.  
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: fboab on December 07, 2010, 03:27:02 pm
Now would be the wrong time to own up to [censored], I guess?

Shhh! I was trying to be all serious and that.

I suppose the point is you need to choose to have a leisurely ride with a good long [censored] in the middle, rather than accidentally discover you've wasted almost an hour in a rubbish cafe staffed by moronic 15yr olds in no hurry, when you've already spent an hour going off route /having a mechanical/ visiting every flushing facility because you've got gut rot.
Or perhaps that last one's just me.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Nuncio on December 07, 2010, 03:42:47 pm
One of the things that worries me on audaxs is leaving my bike outside places, particularly when I will be riding my N+1 with its nice Ti frame and 2 grand price ticket. Does anyone actually ride 600km with a Kryptonite lock on board? How do you all deal with going into controls and having your bike out of sight?

I lock my Ti bike with a moderately hefty cable lock, but quite often leave the ancient steel fixed unsecured.

And because Ian H is riding two bikes, he'll still have one left when the other is nicked.

(But things can still go wrong.  Where's that photo of him standing forlornly outside Bulwark Community Centre with 2 wheels?)
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: vorsprung on December 07, 2010, 03:46:17 pm
At Shobdon (first control on Elenith) I usually order a cooked breakfast and also get a slice of lemon drizzle cake. Service there isn't slow by an means, but the breakfast usually arrives around the time I've finished eating the lemon drizzle cake.

I don't stop at Shobdon or Builth Wells controls on the Elenith.  It's stamp and go.

The garage at Beulah is about lunchtime, I get a sandwich and a chocolate milk there.

After Beulah I stop at all the food stops, the bowling club at Tregaron, the cafe in Rhayder and the late night village place

Roll on spring and another Elenith!
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: LEE on December 07, 2010, 03:51:33 pm
I use a very lightweight combination cable lock a bit like this (but 4 digits)
(http://s.wiggle.co.uk/images/squire-sq400-med.jpg)

It won't stop a professional bike thief but it may stop some "chancer" wheeling it off.

I always try to leave it against a cafe window where it's in sight. Otherwise there are so many cyclists milling about that a thief would be unsure whether the owner was around or not.

I admit that I am taking a chance by doing this.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Nuncio on December 07, 2010, 03:53:41 pm

I use a dirty and ugly looking bike with a piddly Abus combination lock to encourage thieves even more towards the pretty, shiny ones.  This tactic has worked so far.  By the way, your n+1 will always be safe won't it?  It's bike number n you need to worry about.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: vorsprung on December 07, 2010, 03:56:27 pm
One of the things that worries me on audaxs is leaving my bike outside places, particularly when I will be riding my N+1 with its nice Ti frame and 2 grand price ticket. Does anyone actually ride 600km with a Kryptonite lock on board? How do you all deal with going into controls and having your bike out of sight?

I took a cable lock on LEL in 2005 but I only used it before the event on the way up to the start

Other than that, I do make an effort to leave the bike with fellow participants and/or keep it in view

Some people take a very light lock such as this
Lock Alarm Mini Cable Alarm | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=10868)

Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: arvid on December 07, 2010, 04:05:46 pm
One of the things that worries me on audaxs is leaving my bike outside places, particularly when I will be riding my N+1 with its nice Ti frame and 2 grand price ticket. Does anyone actually ride 600km with a Kryptonite lock on board? How do you all deal with going into controls and having your bike out of sight?

When this happens I'm too tired to care. I never bring a lock on audaxes, and my bike was 4k€(oh, and I really can't afford a new one, or even a 2nd hand). Of course it's not shiny and only disabled people ride recumbents and it's wrong to steal from disabled people. So YMMV.
It's also insured, and I ... well, lets not put this on a public forum.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Greenbank on December 07, 2010, 04:12:41 pm
£4k bike (although usually it's just the £1k bike). £4 lock:

On of these: Evans Cycles | Abus Combination Lock 1150 | Online Bike Shop (http://www.evanscycles.com/products/abus/combination-lock-1150-ec006190) in a sale with 50% off.

Locked up either in sight (if possible), amongst lots of other bikes, and/or I'm too tired to care (most of LEL).

Some controls you really don't need to worry about it (most of the controls on the BCM for example).
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: MattH on December 07, 2010, 04:17:46 pm
I also carry a cheap cable lock (albeit keyed, not combination).
Here is where the technique of making sure you lock your lock as you put it in your bag is useful; that way you have to unlock it before you fasten up your bike, so you are sure you have the key with you - not something you want to find you've left behind when you come out of a control 300km from home/your car.


But to sum up the thread above; everyone is different, you'll find your own way as you build up to the 600.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Manotea on December 07, 2010, 04:17:46 pm
I rely on a lock just like Greenbanks. Plus the fact that other peoples bikes are so much shiner than mine, even when it's just been washed it.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: MikeFromLFE on December 07, 2010, 04:26:32 pm
All my bikes (that I'm likely to leave outside a control/cafe/shop) have got 'ring locks' (aka nurse locks) for the rear wheel - as LEE said, not likely to deter a professional but will deter a chancer.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Feline on December 07, 2010, 04:53:26 pm
I can still call it N+1 because I haven't actually ordered it yet  ;D (I am waiting for the Sabbath dealer to get back to me after sending in my measurements).

I actually already have one of those very thin cable combination ones with the alarm on it, I have used that to lock my Fuji up at cafe's and pubs so far. But it would be so quick to snip the cable and make off with the bike that I don't rate my chances of getting out there to grab it before they rode off. I was wondering about additionally deploying a Sneaky Tactic like a reusable cable tie round the rear wheel and frame that they might not even notice until they tried to ride off ....

I am planning on insuring my new bike, but the cover would only be valid if I was using a gold standard (soldsecure) lock around a solid fixed object. This might even preclude the use of the small sized Krytonite as that wont go round many posts aswell as the frame.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: marcusjb on December 07, 2010, 05:22:21 pm
I can still call it N+1 because I haven't actually ordered it yet  ;D (I am waiting for the Sabbath dealer to get back to me after sending in my measurements).

I actually already have one of those very thin cable combination ones with the alarm on it, I have used that to lock my Fuji up at cafe's and pubs so far. But it would be so quick to snip the cable and make off with the bike that I don't rate my chances of getting out there to grab it before they rode off. I was wondering about additionally deploying a Sneaky Tactic like a reusable cable tie round the rear wheel and frame that they might not even notice until they tried to ride off ....

I am planning on insuring my new bike, but the cover would only be valid if I was using a gold standard (soldsecure) lock around a solid fixed object. This might even preclude the use of the small sized Krytonite as that wont go round many posts aswell as the frame.

Is this using a cycle specific insurance policy that demands a certain standard of lock?

I changed to M&S for 2 reasons - they cover bikes up to £4K in value as standard (when we got the tandem, I nearly had a heart attack at the premium Cycle Guard wanted to charge us!) and they don't make any specific demands on the level of lock (I use a cheap ABUS cable lock on audax rides).  Here in London, I wouldn't dream of locking up a bike with the cable lock - but there is a very high chance of someone being around with bolt croppers.  I also would not leave computer, lights, Carradice etc. on the bike in the central London - but outside a cafe, where I was only going to be for twenty minutes and could see the bike from the window, I would leave them on.

It's a balance of the risks - outside a cafe somewhere, what are the chances that a person is going to walk past equipped with bolt croppers?  There's plenty of other cyclists around, and it's usually possible to position the bike so you can see it from the window. 

It is more about stopping the opportunist.  Most bike thiefs will operate in specific areas, at specific times when they know there is opportunity to steal bikes - unless they are looking through the AUK calendar and cross-referencing route sheets for controls and times, then it would be unlikely that a bike thief would happen to be in the area where there are 20-30 nice shiny bikes at one time.

However, my experiences and thoughts are only from the three 200km rides I have done so far - I might carry a bigger lock if I were planning on sleeping somewhere for a couple of hours?  Or I might not.  At the end of the day, I have to take M&S at their word (I did ask specifically if there was any requirement for the quality of the lock and they said no, as long as it was locked to something immovable).



Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Feline on December 07, 2010, 05:30:44 pm
Yeah that was from the small print of a cycle specific policy. It even specified the bike has to be locked if it is inside a locked car!
I realised that the locks on my garage doors would not meet their standards as they are not mortice deadbolts and so any bikes in my garage wouldn't be covered, and bikes in the house only if locked to a ground anchor. I don't really want a ground anchor in my study.
I had a vague idea I could rely on the Kryptonite guarantee instead of the insurance maybe.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: αdαmsκι on December 07, 2010, 05:40:23 pm
I've carried a wee lock on some audaxes, but like others have said these wouldn't stop someone determined taking the bike.

Manned controls are normally fine because you can either take the bike inside; they'll be people around all the time; or you're in the middle of nowhere at silly o'clock in the morning and you'd be grateful if someone did steal your bike 'cos you'd then have an excuse not to go outside in the pissing rain and ride another X0 kms.

Commercial controls can vary. I'll happily walk into a petrol station with the bike left on the forecourt if I'm not in a city centre. If using a cafe I'll find a window seat and keep an eye on the bike. Sometime there's a backyard where you can leave the bike (the same for pubs!). Supermarkets are my biggest worry, but you can just wheel you bike into the shop.

The other way around these problems is to ride with others and then one person can guard the bikes whilst the someone else forages for Ginsters and Frijj milkshakes.


Adopt a Mantra when you arrive at a control - "don't forget brevet card, don't forget water bottles, order food, stamp brevet, get water bottles filled, eat food and go".

Basically you can sit and wait for food to arrive or you can do all those "admin jobs" whilst waiting for it to arrive.

I never do any of this and always regret it.

The other tip that's useful is planning. Before you get to a control think about what you need to do. Firstly get the Brevet card stamped, but also what about food? Drink? Bottles refilled? Magic powder added to the bottles? Change of clothes? Sort out the route card / load up the next section on your GPS? Fit lights / turn on lights if it's getting dark? Adjust something on the bike? If you know what you need to do, you can then just get on and deal with the list rather than getting ready to set off and then releasing the next part of the routesheet is in the saddle bag etc.

The other useful thing is to decide beforehand who long you're going to stop. Will you be around for a meal, in which case you've got time to faff a bit; or is this just a quick grab and sandwich and eat it on the move?
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: TOBY on December 07, 2010, 05:40:58 pm
having 2k of unlocked bike outside is one way to make you control quicker  :)
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: sub55 on December 07, 2010, 07:33:11 pm
My tip for doing a 600 ,in fact any distance.   Dont get cocky about it.   That also applies to experienced cyclists.     Quite easy to ride many events at all the distances with no problem what so ever, then one day you get bitten.     
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: AndyH on December 07, 2010, 07:58:44 pm
Now would be the wrong time to own up to pubbe visits, I guess?
Yes. We should be setting a good example.

Yes, you should  ;)

Someone knew a pub just down the road. Time for a quick stop before the control.

The quick stop turned into a meal for about 1 1/2 hours. We had a table for 8, after thirst quenching cokes beer & wine were enjoyed and main courses........... Us newbies were entertained by Steve & Ian's audax tales. At one point I thought we were going to retire to the drawing room with brandy & cigars. ;D
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Ian H on December 07, 2010, 08:15:12 pm

Careful preparation is essential, and even then the unexpected can derail you.

Wise words:-
My tip for doing a 600 ,in fact any distance.   Dont get cocky about it.   That also applies to experienced cyclists.     Quite easy to ride many events at all the distances with no problem what so ever, then one day you get bitten.     
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: zigzag on December 07, 2010, 11:03:03 pm
My tip for doing a 600 ,in fact any distance.   Dont get cocky about it.   That also applies to experienced cyclists.     Quite easy to ride many events at all the distances with no problem what so ever, then one day you get bitten.     

that's very true, unexpected stuff can happen, but it's not the end of the world. if there's no way i can continue riding, then so be it, there will be plenty of rides ahead. it would be interesting to know what fellow riders consider as a valid reason to pack (tiredness, aches and pains, bad weather, minor mechanicals etc. don't count). this could worth a separate thread, unless already discussed before.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: daimountaingoat on December 07, 2010, 11:18:40 pm
I can still call it N+1 because I haven't actually ordered it yet  ;D (I am waiting for the Sabbath dealer to get back to me after sending in my measurements).

I actually already have one of those very thin cable combination ones with the alarm on it, I have used that to lock my Fuji up at cafe's and pubs so far. But it would be so quick to snip the cable and make off with the bike that I don't rate my chances of getting out there to grab it before they rode off. I was wondering about additionally deploying a Sneaky Tactic like a reusable cable tie round the rear wheel and frame that they might not even notice until they tried to ride off ....

I am planning on insuring my new bike, but the cover would only be valid if I was using a gold standard (soldsecure) lock around a solid fixed object. This might even preclude the use of the small sized Krytonite as that wont go round many posts aswell as the frame.



And what a noise ur alarm makes when it goes off as i noticed outside the control in ferndale on the glamorgan glamour :)
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Kim on December 07, 2010, 11:30:12 pm
I was wondering about additionally deploying a Sneaky Tactic like a reusable cable tie round the rear wheel and frame that they might not even notice until they tried to ride off ....

If you're playing that game, I reckon one of those little padlocks that you lock suitcases with, through a link of the chain and around a rear spoke would weigh almost nothing and buy you enough wtf time to intervene.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Feline on December 07, 2010, 11:39:45 pm
I was wondering about additionally deploying a Sneaky Tactic like a reusable cable tie round the rear wheel and frame that they might not even notice until they tried to ride off ....

If you're playing that game, I reckon one of those little padlocks that you lock suitcases with, through a link of the chain and around a rear spoke would weigh almost nothing and buy you enough wtf time to intervene.

Yes! This indeed sounds like the kind of Sneaky Tactic I was after!
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Nuncio on December 08, 2010, 07:18:25 am
it would be interesting to know what fellow riders consider as a valid reason to pack (tiredness, aches and pains, bad weather, minor mechanicals etc. don't count). this could worth a separate thread, unless already discussed before.

It has. (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=21053.0)
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: mattc on December 08, 2010, 11:27:27 am
I was wondering about additionally deploying a Sneaky Tactic like a reusable cable tie round the rear wheel and frame that they might not even notice until they tried to ride off ....

If you're playing that game, I reckon one of those little padlocks that you lock suitcases with, through a link of the chain and around a rear spoke would weigh almost nothing and buy you enough wtf time to intervene.
I've tried this, the only problem is one of oily fingers.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: marcusjb on December 08, 2010, 12:06:41 pm
I was wondering about additionally deploying a Sneaky Tactic like a reusable cable tie round the rear wheel and frame that they might not even notice until they tried to ride off ....

If you're playing that game, I reckon one of those little padlocks that you lock suitcases with, through a link of the chain and around a rear spoke would weigh almost nothing and buy you enough wtf time to intervene.
I've tried this, the only problem is one of oily fingers.

I forsee the bigger problem of forgetting to take it off and pedalling off with bits of chain and spokes flying everywhere!  But if you weren't forgetful, like I am, then it's a pretty neat solution.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Drone on December 08, 2010, 01:22:02 pm
After a few rides without being cleaned your shining new bike will look like a bag of ***** and the scumbags will be attracted by someone elses new bike.

Alternatively ride fixed and have the last laugh when the thief makes an arse of himself
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Ian H on December 08, 2010, 01:54:59 pm

I forsee the bigger problem of forgetting to take it off and pedalling off with bits of chain and spokes flying everywhere!...

Or even a theft attempt leaving the bike damaged or unridable. That's nearly as bad as having it stolen.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Hummers on December 08, 2010, 06:42:03 pm
What is a 'wee lock' and where can I buy one?

 :-[

H
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Chris S on December 08, 2010, 07:23:20 pm
What is a 'wee lock' and where can I buy one?

 :-[

H

Leakage problems m'dear? Hmmm?

It's just an age thing. It's revenge on your kids.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Hummers on December 08, 2010, 10:10:04 pm
Is it the same as a stop cock?

Hmmmmmmm?

H
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Androcles on December 08, 2010, 10:20:53 pm
When I started audax a few years ago I used to spend a lot of time mile-watching and counting down the distance to the next control.  I realised that what I was doing was, in effect, spending most of the ride looking forward to finishing rather than enjoying the ride.  Hiding the computer behind the routesheet holder helped a bit, but the psychological breakthrough came on my first 300 when I decided that rather than thinking about the distance I would think instead about enjoying a full day out on the bike.

I have overcome my arewenearlythereyet-itis by thinking of a 200 as a day out, a 300 is a long day (dawn till dusk), 400 is a night ride - with a ride to the start and from the finish, and 600 is a weekend on the bike.  

I had real doubts about finishing the 600 as the route passed my house just after the mid-point control and I knew that I would have motivation problems leaving the house at 1am to ride another 300k.  This was where riding with a group (including clubmates who I'd ridden the other SR events with) really helped.  The first mile or so was tough, but once our group was together again I had no more doubts about finishing.
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Nonsteeler on December 13, 2010, 11:20:45 am
When I started audax a few years ago I used to spend a lot of time mile-watching and counting down the distance to the next control.  I realised that what I was doing was, in effect, spending most of the ride looking forward to finishing rather than enjoying the ride.  Hiding the computer behind the routesheet holder helped a bit, but the psychological breakthrough came on my first 300 when I decided that rather than thinking about the distance I would think instead about enjoying a full day out on the bike.

I regard this as an 'advanced beginner' advice. If you can ditch the km/time calculations, then you become better cyclist by attitude, I believe. I am often not able to this. But I make an effort, put the GPS to map-only and ride till the next control. It is not that easy ...
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Feline on December 13, 2010, 02:17:06 pm
I also aspire to one day being so sure of my speed that I know I won't finish out of time and don't even have to look at a clock. At this stage that zen state is some way off from my current reality!
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: steveindenmark on December 13, 2010, 04:52:02 pm
I feel a bit of a fraud because 2011 will be my first Audax season but I am an ex marathon runner and can draw on that experience for this information.

Set off at your own pace, right from the off.

In my first marathon I set off with the pack at far too fast a pace. At 20 miles I hit "The Wall". My tanks were totally empty and I had to manage the last 6 miles on heart, mind and will power, all because I went off too quick, being caught up in the excitement.

It took weeks to recover, not just physically but also mentally.

My next 3 marathons I just enjoyed the run. Chatted to people and stopped for cups of tea. It was far more enjoyable and not that much slower than my first marathon.

This is how I will approach Audax rides. I will know what time I have to finish and try to enjoy the ride and not race it.

Steve
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Manotea on December 13, 2010, 04:54:45 pm
My next 3 marathons I just enjoyed the run. Chatted to people and stopped for cups of tea. It was far more enjoyable and not that much slower than my first marathon.

You'll like Audaxing. Not only does it involve regular stops for a cup of tea but you also get to have a slice of cake!
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: steveindenmark on December 14, 2010, 03:37:31 pm

CAKE

I like it better already  :P

Steve
Title: Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
Post by: Hummers on December 14, 2010, 03:41:59 pm
I feel a bit of a fraud because 2011 will be my first Audax season but I am an ex marathon runner and can draw on that experience for this information.

Set off at your own pace, right from the off.

In my first marathon I set off with the pack at far too fast a pace. At 20 miles I hit "The Wall". My tanks were totally empty and I had to manage the last 6 miles on heart, mind and will power, all because I went off too quick, being caught up in the excitement.

It took weeks to recover, not just physically but also mentally.

My next 3 marathons I just enjoyed the run. Chatted to people and stopped for cups of tea. It was far more enjoyable and not that much slower than my first marathon.

This is how I will approach Audax rides. I will know what time I have to finish and try to enjoy the ride and not race it.

Steve

 :thumbsup:

H