Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Audax => Topic started by: Billy Weir on March 21, 2011, 05:11:37 pm

Title: Random audax questions
Post by: Billy Weir on March 21, 2011, 05:11:37 pm
Thought I would start a thread for random quick questions that don't merit new topics of their own and probably involve little more than a sentence or two to respond with.

Factual questions and answers only.  Debate not needed.

Feel free to use and reuse as you please.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Billy Weir on March 21, 2011, 05:12:12 pm
Does anyone know of any listed permanents that go through Dartmoor?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: john74 on March 21, 2011, 05:30:20 pm
Are medals readily available at the finish or do you have to wait until your brevet card has been authenticated?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: border-rider on March 21, 2011, 05:35:34 pm
Ride-specific medals & badges are usually available at the end of the ride, but some orgs post them afterwards.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fungus on March 21, 2011, 05:53:41 pm
Perhaps this should be a sticky & unstick poor old Mrs Miles.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on March 21, 2011, 06:34:17 pm
Are medals readily available at the finish or do you have to wait until your brevet card has been authenticated?

The whole medals system is somewhat dysfunctional. 
They should be available at the finish - validation not required.  However most Organisers don't want all the hassle of sale-or-return, posting surplus stock back to HQ, etc. 
So instead they tend to be 'order at the finish, get the medal with your card' (if you're very lucky and it hasn't fallen out of the envelope, or fallen foul of large letter post). 
Some Organisers just won't handle medals at all, because of the extra postal hassle
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on March 21, 2011, 07:54:16 pm
You can order medals at the end of the Audax year, if you prefer.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: steveindenmark on March 21, 2011, 08:09:29 pm
Does it hurt?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: AndyH on March 21, 2011, 08:27:57 pm
Perhaps this should be a sticky & unstick poor old Mrs Miles.
+1
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on March 21, 2011, 10:18:49 pm
Does anyone know of any listed permanents that go through Dartmoor?

No, but I once did a very nice 300km DIY that went round Dartmoor (Kingscombe-Exeter-Bude-Fowey), complete with views of the moor and sea, ferry crossings and everything. The Exter-Bude-Fowey stages were lifted whole from the K&SW routesheet, and not the flat bit. Actually, none of it was the flat bit; I certainly didn't feel short changed on the climbing front.

Passing through Lostwithiel at dusk, several hours behind schedule, I asked a native if I was good for Fowey. "Yes", she said, pausing before adding, "It's up the hill", and then, after looking me over, "It's a big hill". "Aren't they all?", I sighed.

Actually, this would make a great Perm/Calendar for those that don't feel man enough up to the full K&SW 600. Definately worth travelling for.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Martin on March 21, 2011, 10:20:43 pm
Perhaps this should be a sticky & unstick poor old Mrs Miles.
+1

+2 (having read it once)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: ruggtomcat on March 22, 2011, 09:54:49 am
I like Mrs Miles all sticky :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Doosh on May 10, 2011, 06:02:41 pm
Do you need a GPS thingymibob?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: MattH on May 10, 2011, 06:14:11 pm
Not for normal rides, though many riders like to use them (similarly, many dislike them!).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wobbly on May 10, 2011, 06:21:12 pm
>Do you need a GPS thingymibob?

You don't need one. But route sheets are of variable quality - some good, some bad. I'm happier knowing my GPS will tell me when I'm off route.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hellymedic on May 10, 2011, 06:51:18 pm
Do you need a GPS thingymibob?

Some of us did Audax rides before they were commonplace.
Some of us did Audax rides before 'everyone' had a mobile phone.

Neither is necessary but both can be helpful.

Both can fail though...
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Doosh on May 10, 2011, 07:19:27 pm
It just seems to tip the balance between an affordable, enjoyable get-away-from-it-all hobby into yet another activity that now requires an expensive electronic gadget.

One of the main reasons I enjoy cycling is that all I need (apart from the bike, obviously) is some water and a bit of grub.  The idea of Audax appeals greatly, although I admit I'm a bit apprehensive as it involves being around people *shudders*  ;D  plus the rules and checkpoints and stuff.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Greenbank on May 10, 2011, 07:21:38 pm
One of the main reasons I enjoy cycling is that all I need (apart from the bike, obviously) is some water and a bit of grub.  The idea of Audax appeals greatly, although I admit I'm a bit apprehensive as it involves being around people *shudders*  ;D  plus the rules and checkpoints and stuff.

One of the reasons I like Audax is that I can choose to be sociable, or just wibble along on my own for bunchteen hours. I've ridden hundreds of kilometers on rides just a few hundred yards behind someone.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hellymedic on May 10, 2011, 07:28:22 pm
Audax is as sociable as you make it or want it.
You can do it as a loner or make friends with a group.
The choice is yours.
Enjoy!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on May 10, 2011, 07:35:25 pm
I don't have GPS & it's not a problem.

It just seems to tip the balance between an affordable, enjoyable get-away-from-it-all hobby into yet another activity that now requires an expensive electronic gadget.

One of the main reasons I enjoy cycling is that all I need (apart from the bike, obviously) is some water and a bit of grub.  The idea of Audax appeals greatly, although I admit I'm a bit apprehensive as it involves being around people *shudders*  ;D  plus the rules and checkpoints and stuff.

I do have a mobile phone with me which would without doubt be usefull but I carry it because my work makes it necessary for me to be available to some folk 24/7.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: alfapete on May 10, 2011, 07:42:01 pm
You can be entirely antisocial and still enjoy audax. On a longish ride the people quicker than you disappear within 1km of the start, then you overtake the ones slower than you (or never even see them) within the first km too. The only time things get mixed up is at controls.
From time to time you could talk to someone by cycling alongside if you like, but I normally tuck in behind and let them take the wind.
This comment is NOT sarcastic, though I can understand if you think it is!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on May 10, 2011, 08:25:35 pm
On my last audax I had company for a short while at the first control & for a few minutes after the start.
Other than that I rode 200km solo so if you wish to ride audaxes alone IME it can be done
Equally so you could ride in a group whose pace you are comfortable with.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Billy Weir on May 10, 2011, 09:20:01 pm
A different question.

Does anyone know if it is easy to get a control in Yalding (Kent), particularly on Sundays?  Any suggestions (I'll probably be starting a ride from there at around 8am and probably finishing 8pm ish plus or minus an hour).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Doosh on May 10, 2011, 10:42:49 pm
So if you don't have a GPS thingy, what are the quality of directions like?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Deano on May 10, 2011, 10:44:06 pm
So if you don't have a GPS thingy, what are the quality of directions like?

You really don't need a GPS.  If you can follow a map, you'll be fine. 
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: border-rider on May 10, 2011, 10:45:06 pm
So if you don't have a GPS thingy, what are the quality of directions like?

fine
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mmmmartin on May 10, 2011, 10:52:29 pm
A different question.

Does anyone know if it is easy to get a control in Yalding (Kent), particularly on Sundays?  Any suggestions (I'll probably be starting a ride from there at around 8am and probably finishing 8pm ish plus or minus an hour).
The El Supremo perm Seaford-Yalding uses a shop. It had only just opened when i arrived and that was after leaving Mayfield at 5am. Maybe aslo a Permit to travel or a train ticket? perhaps not central enough..... have a look at the shop opening hours. a trip to google might help.....
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mmmmartin on May 10, 2011, 10:59:12 pm
Do you need a GPS thingymibob?
Not in the least. but if you want to fritter away simply oceans of time in the evenings instead of watching Strictly Come Policeman Drama Hospital Vet Fluffy Pet Fat People Being Stupid then they are absolutely super-califragilistic and super. Ho yes. As for telling you where to go, they are helpful on long rides but not really on short ones.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Mad Jack on May 10, 2011, 11:13:45 pm
A different question.

Does anyone know if it is easy to get a control in Yalding (Kent), particularly on Sundays?  Any suggestions (I'll probably be starting a ride from there at around 8am and probably finishing 8pm ish plus or minus an hour).

Have a play with Google street view, (what Martin said^) to see what's out there. Did this on DIY 400 last year using South Harting, but found nothing there, next option was Petersfield which was OK.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Doosh on May 10, 2011, 11:32:39 pm
Do you need a GPS thingymibob?
Not in the least. but if you want to fritter away simply oceans of time in the evenings instead of watching Strictly Come Policeman Drama Hospital Vet Fluffy Pet Fat People Being Stupid then they are absolutely super-califragilistic and super. Ho yes. As for telling you where to go, they are helpful on long rides but not really on short ones.

No TV so no worries there.

So you need a map then?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: border-rider on May 10, 2011, 11:34:35 pm
No, but if it's terra incognito for you then one can be helpful

Usually the routesheet is sufficient
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Doosh on May 10, 2011, 11:43:20 pm
Ok cheers, might give one a go.

Do you need to be in some sort of club or anything or do you just put your name down as wanting to take part?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on May 10, 2011, 11:43:31 pm
Indeed, it's very rare to need a map, but carrying the standard pages from £3.99 road atlas is very reassuring.

It seems that the main benefit of using GPS is this sort of thing:
Quote
Before getting off at Honiton I realised that I forgot to transfer my route file to the little GPS machine. Not again (did same thing last year for the Kernow&SW). I  had lovingly modified IanH's track, added a couple of symbols and notes, including a different route through Barnstaple and now it was on the wrong computer. Garmins can talk to each other via wireless so Panoramix and I gave it a try at the start. It looked a bit like a Garmin breeding business. After some initial success, we had cried victory to early (Panoramix's words) as Edge and Dakota couldn't finish their business. Luckily Feline had the right cable with her, so I was able to quickly download Ian's original track via tourist office's PC.

EDIT: there may be facetious elements in the above - I am well aware that some riders really struggle even with the finest routesheets. But the cheap option is to try an event with just a routesheet before buying a GPS.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Jaded on May 10, 2011, 11:48:46 pm
GPSs are great for people like me. My GPS has transformed my enjoyment of riding Audaxes.

1) I confuse left and right
2) I forget instructions I read 15 seconds ago
3) My eyes are ageing and in low light and in the dark I cannot read routesheets unless I have reading glasses on. I do not need glasses for anything other than reading
4) I forgot this point. Where was I? Shall I go back to the first point and try again?
5) Oh yes. Although I am getting better at it, I do not think in Kms. Thinking '5 to the next turn' has meant that I've gone 8.

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Martin on May 10, 2011, 11:51:11 pm
Ok cheers, might give one a go.

Do you need to be in some sort of club or anything or do you just put your name down as wanting to take part?

Absolutely anybody can enter an Audax no need to be in a club or the CTC; you need to pay £2 insurance if you don't have it through  the CTC or BC

and if you have a Paypal account you can enter many events online
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Panoramix on May 10, 2011, 11:51:40 pm
Where is Mrs Miles gone?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Martin on May 10, 2011, 11:56:49 pm
Where is has Mrs Miles gone?

last seen sliding down a pole (or else this board) Jan 11th
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Doosh on May 11, 2011, 12:07:23 am
OK, so someone with a really strong sense of their bearings and direction and good at finding their way, a route sheet should be easily doable?

At the minute I look up my routes on Google maps and then cast them to memory before going out, granted it's not 200 or 300ks worth of directions but around 50-70 miles.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feline on May 11, 2011, 12:44:30 am
OK, so someone with a really strong sense of their bearings and direction and good at finding their way, a route sheet should be easily doable?

At the minute I look up my routes on Google maps and then cast them to memory before going out, granted it's not 200 or 300ks worth of directions but around 50-70 miles.

You generally need to keep a good eye on your route sheet so you don't miss any of the controls or info controls. I use a GPS but also laminate my route sheet in small pieces and bulldog clip it to my bars where I can see it. If my GPS went pear shaped I could (probably) still complete the ride even with no map.

Personally the aspects of Audax I enjoy most are the riding, the scenery and chatting to other cycling nutters. I don't really enjoy navigation, and I enjoy a ride much less if I am constantly wondering if I am going the right way, a GPS basically gives me reassurance that I am on route. Oh, and I have no sense of direction and my knowledge of geography is crap too.

The best route sheets give a distance in km for each instruction, e.g. 'Turn L at T 56.2 km'
It is much easier to miss turns or even worse completely forget how far down the sheet you are if there are no distances on it to cross reference.

+1 to what Jaded said about forgetting 15 seconds after you just read the sheet what the next instruction is  :facepalm:

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: itinerant on May 11, 2011, 01:27:28 am

+1 to what Jaded said about forgetting 15 seconds after you just read the sheet what the next instruction is  :facepalm:



Phew!  I thought it was just me who had this problem.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cyclops on May 11, 2011, 09:24:01 am
OK, so someone with a really strong sense of their bearings and direction and good at finding their way, a route sheet should be easily doable?

We all managed to get round fine with routesheets in the pre-GPS days and I don't think the standards of routesheets have dropped at all.

I'd recommend trying to trace where the routesheet goes on a map before the event as it often makes it a lot clearer on the ride. If you know some of the towns, villages or landmarks you should pass en route it offers a bit of reassurance when you're riding.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marcusjb on May 11, 2011, 09:26:34 am
OK, so someone with a really strong sense of their bearings and direction and good at finding their way, a route sheet should be easily doable?

We all managed to get round fine with routesheets in the pre-GPS days and I don't think the standards of routesheets have dropped at all.

I'd recommend trying to trace where the routesheet goes on a map before the event as it often makes it a lot clearer on the ride. If you know some of the towns, villages or landmarks you should pass en route it offers a bit of reassurance when you're riding.


+1 for this

Google StreetView can also be of great assistance in working out any tricky instructions in the route sheet whilst you are tracing out the route.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on May 11, 2011, 09:37:49 am
OK, so someone with a really strong sense of their bearings and direction and good at finding their way, a route sheet should be easily doable?

We all managed to get round fine with routesheets in the pre-GPS days and I don't think the standards of routesheets have dropped at all.
If anything they've improved (based on comments from veterans).

Doosh:
You're being very sensible, but probably overly pessimistic. I suggest you find a routesheet on one of the AUKWeb calendar pages, and see if you think it would work for you on the road.
(I can email you one of mine if you don't find any - not all events have them on the website).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wobbly on May 11, 2011, 10:43:23 am
Doosh, I think that this forum might sometimes give you the impression that us Audaxers are a tetchy and argumentative bunch. Let me say that I've always found riders and organisers to be incredibly helpful on the actual events. If you let people know it's your first Audax ride you won't be short of offers of help and advice.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Doosh on May 11, 2011, 12:04:15 pm
For me part of the challenge would be finding my way, a bit like orienteering but on a bike  :thumbsup:

I think the recent resurgence in cycling has bought with it a lot of people who can throw lots of money at a new hobby, those that can jump straight in with a Ti bike and £400s worth of GPS, that's not a criticism BTW, but for relative newbies to these things it gives the impression that you need all this stuff. I hear or read very little of people who do this on a modest/realistic budget.

I know cycling has a large element of boy's toys about it but that's partly what I want to get away from, I'm not interested in whether or not someone is wearing 'this year's jersey' or how much all the little add-on trinkets cost.

Back on topic- my concerns have been answered above. I was worried that with the rise of GPS that the written route sheets would have consequently suffered, I'm glad to hear they haven't and I'll try and get hold of one to look at.

Thanks for all the help.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on May 11, 2011, 12:10:00 pm
Have you considered doing an audax ride from Alfreton?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ian H on May 11, 2011, 12:11:00 pm
For what it's worth, I rode the 99 PBP on a forty year old fixed wheel with a bottle dynamo (£7.00), no gps, computer or any other gadgetry. I reckon I clocked over 1,200 miles during that seven day period.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feline on May 11, 2011, 12:12:11 pm

I think the recent resurgence in cycling has bought with it a lot of people who can throw lots of money at a new hobby, those that can jump straight in with a Ti bike and £400s worth of GPS, that's not a criticism BTW, but for relative newbies to these things it gives the impression that you need all this stuff. I hear or read very little of people who do this on a modest/realistic budget.


The riders who are fairly anti-technology probably don't have a computer and so don't post on this forum at all  ;D

Inevitably the population here is skewed towards those who like using technology (or at least computers) and who like talking about bikes as well as riding them. This isn't the case within Audax UK in general from what I've seen so far. You will see plenty of modest bikes with low-tech route sheet holders only on them on any Audax, and they often won't be the slow ones either!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on May 11, 2011, 12:22:01 pm


Back on topic- my concerns have been answered above. I was worried that with the rise of GPS that the written route sheets would have consequently suffered, I'm glad to hear they haven't and I'll try and get hold of one to look at.

Thanks for all the help.

Go to the calandar on the Audax web site

Calendar of Audax UK cycling events (http://www.aukweb.net/events/)

& click on a random number of events untill you find one of those with a link to the route sheet eg:-

event detail (http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/11-426/)

which you can  open/download as a pdf.

Read on
HTH
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: MattH on May 11, 2011, 12:34:19 pm
For what it's worth, I rode the 99 PBP on a forty year old fixed wheel with a bottle dynamo (£7.00), no gps, computer or any other gadgetry. I reckon I clocked over 1,200 miles during that seven day period.

But if you'd had GPS you'd have finished it in four days only having covered 750 miles  :)

IGMC
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on May 11, 2011, 01:18:14 pm
...

 I hear or read very little of people who do this on a modest/realistic budget.


The riders who are fairly anti-technology probably don't have a computer and so don't post on this forum at all  ;D

Yup. Plus the YACF luddites are hardly likely to post
Still not using GPS.
every few days.

It's much more fun/useful to talk about stuff you do use!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: YahudaMoon on May 11, 2011, 01:26:11 pm
I don't use GPS ha ha ha

Reasons

Weight, faff, geeky, they break.

I love my cheap plastic & very light paper holder. No problems  :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ian H on May 11, 2011, 01:27:43 pm
For what it's worth, I rode the 99 PBP on a forty year old fixed wheel with a bottle dynamo (£7.00), no gps, computer or any other gadgetry. I reckon I clocked over 1,200 miles during that seven day period.

But if you'd had GPS you'd have finished it in four days only having covered 750 miles  :)

IGMC

Fair point.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: YahudaMoon on May 11, 2011, 01:31:43 pm
Why do people with GPS take the wrong turn on audax events ?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Greenbank on May 11, 2011, 01:32:56 pm
I don't use GPS ha ha ha

Reasons

Weight, faff, geeky, they break.

I love my cheap plastic & very light paper holder. No problems  :)

My Rixen & Kaul map holder I used to use weighs about the same as my GPS. The Edge 705 is a mere 105g.

Faffing done upfront. Once you get used to it, on the ride a GPS is much less faff than a routesheet. No refolding/adjusting when you get to the next page, etc.

Geeky? Not a problem, I'm a geek.

They break? Possibly. Never had one break on me and I always carry the routesheet as backup anyway. If I need to navigate by routesheet I wrap it round the bars (in one of the plastic bags in case of rain) and hold it in place with a rubber band (usually the red ones left by the postman).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Greenbank on May 11, 2011, 01:35:27 pm
Why do people with GPS take the wrong turn on audax events ?

Because it doesn't do the steering for you. Generally it's down to user error. You have to look at it and read what it is telling you to do correctly. Most of my navigation errors have been down to chatting away with someone and not noticing that it's had been telling me to make a turn.

At least with a GPS there are easy ways to spot that you've taken a wrong turn (again, only if you look at it).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ian H on May 11, 2011, 01:38:25 pm
Why do people with GPS take the wrong turn on audax events ?

Because it doesn't do the steering for you. Generally it's down to user error. You have to look at it and read what it is telling you to do correctly. Most of my navigation errors have been down to chatting away with someone and not noticing that it's had been telling me to make a turn.

At least with a GPS there are easy ways to spot that you've taken a wrong turn (again, only if you look at it).

I get the impression that some are allowing the gps to navigate them to the next control by whatever devious means it chooses.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: DrMekon on May 11, 2011, 01:38:33 pm
Why do people with GPS take the wrong turn on audax events ?

Because the GPS moves on to the next instruction as you approach the waypoint, and if you are careless when entering them and tired when reading them, it's possible to get confused. Fortunately, you can then check the track.

In the 3 audax I've done, routesheet use has been more common than GPS use, and none of the people I rode with were slowed down by not using GPS. However, on the Mildenhall 300, I saved the front bunch a length backtrack when we missed a bunch of turns. By the time anyone noticed, we were some distance from the route, but I was able to zoom out on my garmin and find a way back.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Deano on May 11, 2011, 01:39:18 pm
I don't use a GPS because it would complicate what is, for me, a simple pleasure.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: YahudaMoon on May 11, 2011, 01:39:19 pm
Quote
My Rixen & Kaul map holder I used to use weighs about the same as my GPS. The Edge 705 is a mere 105g.

Faffing done upfront. Once you get used to it, on the ride a GPS is much less faff than a routesheet. No refolding/adjusting when you get to the next page, etc.

Geeky? Not a problem, I'm a geek.

They break? Possibly. Never had one break on me and I always carry the routesheet as backup anyway. If I need to navigate by routesheet I wrap it round the bars (in one of the plastic bags in case of rain) and hold it in place with a rubber band (usually the red ones left by the postman).

This is my favourite thread at the moment.

Yeah but Rixen Kaul map holders are made from old war tanks. Mines a super duper cheap lightweight conversion. Built in my shed


Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: YahudaMoon on May 11, 2011, 01:41:58 pm
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwUFI3BJqJFIWCyOvvm2WecyD_B7cMP-O9R0s47f5wdc5wHSDa)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Greenbank on May 11, 2011, 01:46:10 pm
I get the impression that some are allowing the gps to navigate them to the next control by whatever devious means it chooses.

That can be dangerous. I don't give the device have that much freedom.

I put in a track of the route (which I can check in advance). The GPS doesn't get to interpret this or pick its own routing, it just displays it for me on the map.

I then put in a route (made up of thousands of points to reduce any options the GPS can take) so that it can use this to give me prompted instructions (left on B3056, 2nd exit Roundabout, etc). I keep it on the map page to check that the intended route (big pink line) is following the track, if they deviate (they rarely ever do) I follow the track. I also look at the map page as sometimes the GPS doesn't give me all of the necessary instructions as it doesn't always get the priority right at every junction.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Greenbank on May 11, 2011, 01:47:31 pm
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwUFI3BJqJFIWCyOvvm2WecyD_B7cMP-O9R0s47f5wdc5wHSDa)

Why? Ride how you want to ride. I'm not trying to make anyone use a GPS. I'm just explaining why, having done plenty of Audaxes with and without, I prefer to use one as it makes my life easier.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Hot Flatus on May 11, 2011, 01:56:30 pm
Indeed.

Paper is simple, but there is an element of concentration needed. With Gps the concentration is needed when plotting the route, but riding with one is easy. Enables one to totally switch off
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feline on May 11, 2011, 02:01:13 pm
Why do people with GPS take the wrong turn on audax events ?

Because it doesn't do the steering for you. Generally it's down to user error. You have to look at it and read what it is telling you to do correctly. Most of my navigation errors have been down to chatting away with someone and not noticing that it's had been telling me to make a turn.

At least with a GPS there are easy ways to spot that you've taken a wrong turn (again, only if you look at it).

Mine bleeps at me within 6 feet if I go off route  ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feline on May 11, 2011, 02:03:09 pm
Actually for me one of the mahoosive benefits of GPS is that you can see it in the dark and it doesn't disintegrate into papier mache in the rain!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Greenbank on May 11, 2011, 02:07:03 pm
Why do people with GPS take the wrong turn on audax events ?

Because it doesn't do the steering for you. Generally it's down to user error. You have to look at it and read what it is telling you to do correctly. Most of my navigation errors have been down to chatting away with someone and not noticing that it's had been telling me to make a turn.

At least with a GPS there are easy ways to spot that you've taken a wrong turn (again, only if you look at it).

Mine bleeps at me within 6 feet if I go off route  ;D

I tried that but didn't get along well with it. It bleeped several times in areas of poor signal when I wasn't off the route, and where the road didn't follow exactly the same path as it had plotted on bikehike. I've also ridden along in my own little world ignoring the bleeps until I looked at the GPS to see that the 'distance to next' was going up rather than down.

Bleeping is also useless if wearing headphones. (Let's not restart that particular debate in this thread.)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Simonb on May 11, 2011, 02:07:35 pm
Actually for me one of the mahoosive benefits of GPS is that you can see it in the dark and it doesn't disintegrate into papier mache in the rain!

This.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ian H on May 11, 2011, 02:13:47 pm
Actually for me one of the mahoosive benefits of GPS is that you can see it in the dark and it doesn't disintegrate into papier mache in the rain!

Head torch and plastic bag?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feline on May 11, 2011, 02:16:55 pm
Actually for me one of the mahoosive benefits of GPS is that you can see it in the dark and it doesn't disintegrate into papier mache in the rain!

Head torch and plastic bag?

I actually had my route sheet disintegrate into mush inside a Carradice plastic map holder on one wet 200k back in February.
My Garmin Edge weighs less than a head torch and I don't have to wear it on my head  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on May 11, 2011, 02:19:38 pm
Actually for me one of the mahoosive benefits of GPS is that you can see it in the dark and it doesn't disintegrate into papier mache in the rain!

Head torch and plastic bag?

I actually had my route sheet disintegrate into mush inside a Carradice plastic map holder on one wet 200k back in February.
My Garmin Edge weighs less than a head torch and I don't have to wear it on my head  :thumbsup:

headtorch & Ortlieb map case :smug:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Deano on May 11, 2011, 02:19:47 pm
Or just ride with someone who has a GPS - best of both worlds :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Simonb on May 11, 2011, 02:21:33 pm
Head torch and plastic bag?

Absolutely (I only got a GPS in Feb this year). But I find that the droplets make it very hard to read a routesheet (even when I wipe them off).

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feline on May 11, 2011, 02:22:23 pm
I think a laminator is a very useful bit of audax kit  ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on May 11, 2011, 02:24:11 pm
Actually for me one of the mahoosive benefits of GPS is that you can see it in the dark and it doesn't disintegrate into papier mache in the rain!

Head torch and plastic bag?

I actually had my route sheet disintegrate into mush inside a Carradice plastic map holder on one wet 200k back in February.
My Garmin Edge weighs less than a head torch and I don't have to wear it on my head  :thumbsup:

headtorch & Ortlieb map case :smug:

to tell the truth I have moved on up the tech-spec from an ortlieb map case.....
I now laminate the route sheet & carry it inna Polaris map trap ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Greenbank on May 11, 2011, 02:27:06 pm
I just used the rolls of sticky backed plastic sheet, no need for the expense of a laminator.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ian H on May 11, 2011, 02:29:14 pm
If you save the plastic bags given with your brevet card, you soon have an adequate supply of routesheet bags. Add a Polaris holder and you're there.


(okay, I do actually have a Garmin unit - recent convert).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on May 11, 2011, 02:39:40 pm
Initially I put my route sheet in the the plastic bag with my brevet card & carried it in a jersey back pocket.Felt like a proper audaxer :demon:  ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feline on May 11, 2011, 02:41:28 pm
I just used the rolls of sticky backed plastic sheet, no need for the expense of a laminator.

My laminator cost £15 from Tesco  ;D

My kids sometimes use it for things too, it's pretty handy!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on May 11, 2011, 02:44:11 pm
I just used the rolls of sticky backed plastic sheet, no need for the expense of a laminator.

My laminator cost £15 from Tesco  ;D

My kids sometimes use it for things too, it's pretty handy!

mine was a legitimate business expense  ;)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Deano on May 11, 2011, 02:45:43 pm
Condensation can be an issue inside the plastic bag.  As I'm still at the laggy-band-around-the-arm stage (which led to Jim Gresty commenting "Oh, you must be a devotee of Flat Earth Bob"), careful positioning of the band so as not to obscure the instructions is also essential.

I usually carry a spare laggy band, too - and more than once I've given them away, including when people's devices have given up the ghost/made a bid for freedom.  Handy things.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wobbly on May 11, 2011, 04:19:19 pm
At the other end of the paranoid scale I have a GPS but I also program the location of the controls into my phone so if the GPS "died" I can use the GPS in my phone to navigate with.

AND I take a route sheet in a plastic bag.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Redlight on May 11, 2011, 04:41:04 pm
Alternatively, choose a ride on which the instructions are very simple, e.g.

R from control onto A4
Ride to Bath
Retrace

Which I vaguely recall being mentioned in Arrivee once (possibly an Audax Myth?)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mmmmartin on May 11, 2011, 04:42:17 pm
GPS with route in it.
Routesheet with each line highlighted in different colours to aid concentration.
Maptrap containing routesheet.
Routesheet in sticky-back plastic.
Spare routesheet (in case routesheet #1 is blown away by Welsh gale), as above, in HUUUGE Carradice saddlebag (where the pork pies and extra clothing lives).
Photocopies of the route from the office road atlas, with route highlighted  - and covered in sticky-back plastic, in saddlebag.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hellymedic on May 11, 2011, 04:52:57 pm
Alternatively, choose a ride on which the instructions are very simple, e.g.

R from control onto A4
Ride to Bath
Retrace

Which I vaguely recall being mentioned in Arrivee once (possibly an Audax Myth?)

'Retrace to MENCAP' (from Gonerby on Bernie's Long Flat One) was not a myth.
I wrote my own route sheet on file paper.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: vorsprung on May 11, 2011, 04:58:02 pm
On the topic of route sheet disintegration

I have ridden lots of wet audaxes in the past few years

I always have the route sheet clipped to the bars on a homemade holder with no weather protection.  It is just a bit of paper on a board.  I usually have a spare copy of  the paper route sheet

Often it gets wet and has to be handled with care if it needs turning over.  But I only had it actually disintegrate once, during a very very wet ride ( I think possibly the wettest ever ) and that was at the end of the route.  I had memorised the last couple of instructions so it didn't matter

So given that it has only happened once to me in 5 years worth of riding the risk of "disintegration" and all the effort that people put in with lamination could well be misplaced

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feline on May 11, 2011, 05:01:40 pm
On the topic of route sheet disintegration

I have ridden lots of wet audaxes in the past few years

I always have the route sheet clipped to the bars on a homemade holder with no weather protection.  It is just a bit of paper on a board.  I usually have a spare copy of  the paper route sheet

Often it gets wet and has to be handled with care if it needs turning over.  But I only had it actually disintegrate once, during a very very wet ride ( I think possibly the wettest ever ) and that was at the end of the route.  I had memorised the last couple of instructions so it didn't matter

So given that it has only happened once to me in 5 years worth of riding the risk of "disintegration" and all the effort that people put in with lamination could well be misplaced



In that case I strongly recommend you avoid entering any audax that I have also entered, because I've ridden 3 so far this year in rainfall of biblical proportions  ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on May 11, 2011, 05:03:43 pm


In that case I strongly recommend you avoid entering any audax that I have also entered, because I've ridden 3 so far this year in rainfall of biblical proportions  ;D

In that case I strongly hope that you are not riding the World's End 200k on Sunday :hand:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Deano on May 11, 2011, 05:07:05 pm


In that case I strongly recommend you avoid entering any audax that I have also entered, because I've ridden 3 so far this year in rainfall of biblical proportions  ;D

In that case I strongly hope that you are not riding the World's End 200k on Sunday :hand:

I heard the organiser just took delivery of a shipment of gopher wood ;)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feline on May 11, 2011, 05:10:34 pm


In that case I strongly recommend you avoid entering any audax that I have also entered, because I've ridden 3 so far this year in rainfall of biblical proportions  ;D

In that case I strongly hope that you are not riding the World's End 200k on Sunday :hand:

Fortunately for you, I'm not  :D
Look out anyone who's entered the Denmead 400 on Saturday though!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on May 11, 2011, 05:10:34 pm


In that case I strongly recommend you avoid entering any audax that I have also entered, because I've ridden 3 so far this year in rainfall of biblical proportions  ;D

In that case I strongly hope that you are not riding the World's End 200k on Sunday :hand:

I heard the organiser just took delivery of a shipment of gopher wood ;)


I pray that your info. is innarkurate

edited for continuity
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Jaded on May 11, 2011, 09:09:20 pm
Actually for me one of the mahoosive benefits of GPS is that you can see it in the dark and it doesn't disintegrate into papier mache in the rain!

Head torch and plastic bag?

I tried that but the guy who ripped it off when I was suffocating said "that's the weirdest perversion I've ever seen".
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Martin on May 11, 2011, 09:13:24 pm
If you save the plastic bags given with your brevet card, you soon have an adequate

doesn't everyone just put the route sheet in the same bag?

(no it's just me as I keep both in a back pocket)

talking of which I send out a plastic wallet with each DIY card; maybe I should give out one free and introduce a 10p environmental tax on the other 5
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ian H on May 11, 2011, 09:36:30 pm
Actually for me one of the mahoosive benefits of GPS is that you can see it in the dark and it doesn't disintegrate into papier mache in the rain!

Head torch and plastic bag?

I tried that but the guy who ripped it off when I was suffocating said "that's the weirdest perversion I've ever seen".

We must meet up in a motorway service area sometime.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on May 11, 2011, 09:49:54 pm
You are George Michael AICMFP
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wobbly on May 11, 2011, 10:28:36 pm
You are George Michael AICMFP

I claim my five pounds???

Showing your age there Jogs
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: perpetual dan on May 11, 2011, 10:52:05 pm
Mine bleeps at me within 6 feet if I go off route  ;D

I can set mine up to beep every so often when I am on route (ie at the intermediate points bikeroutetoaster produces). That is quite annoying, so I switch it off!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on May 12, 2011, 09:19:14 am
You are George Michael AICMFP

I claim my five pounds???

Showing your age there Jogs


Maggie May tells me I wear it well ;)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Jaded on May 12, 2011, 09:27:42 am
Mine bleeps at me within 6 feet if I go off route  ;D

I'd throw mine away if it went off that often!!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: kcass on May 12, 2011, 11:42:03 am
all the effort that people put in with lamination could well be misplaced

Laminating is fun!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: MattH on May 12, 2011, 11:43:19 am
It also makes a bigger difference if you are using an inkjet to print, rather than a laser. The paper may still be in one piece, but it's not a lot of use if there is no longer any writing on it!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on May 12, 2011, 11:55:32 am
all the effort that people put in with lamination could well be misplaced

Laminating is fun!

it's my glue sniffing substitute ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Doosh on May 12, 2011, 09:10:29 pm
What are the time limits for each distance? I don't seem to be able to find a simple list  ???
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feline on May 12, 2011, 09:18:47 pm
What are the time limits for each distance? I don't seem to be able to find a simple list  ???

Mostly between 15kph and 30 kph average speed, although the minimum goes down to 12 kph for 'Populaire' events (these are denoted by BP rather than BR/BRM). you should find it next to each event in the Audax UK calendar on the website.

It effectively means that you have between 6.7 and 13.3 hours to do a 200k, although if the event is over distance (e.g. 215km) you can get a little bit of extra time.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wobbly on May 12, 2011, 09:39:01 pm
This might help - http://www.aukweb.net/resources/controltimes/ (http://www.aukweb.net/resources/controltimes/)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Greenbank on May 13, 2011, 09:48:57 am
What are the time limits for each distance? I don't seem to be able to find a simple list  ???

Mostly between 15kph and 30 kph average speed, although the minimum goes down to 12 kph for 'Populaire' events (these are denoted by BP rather than BR/BRM). you should find it next to each event in the Audax UK calendar on the website.

It effectively means that you have between 6.7 and 13.3 hours to do a 200k, although if the event is over distance (e.g. 215km) you can get a little bit of extra time.

Maximum average speed is usually 30kph although organisers are free to pick a lower average speed if they want (some set it at 25kph to reduce the time they have to have the later controls open for) although they only tend to do this for very hilly events as the fast riders will be ahead of this.

Minimum average speeds:-

For BRM rides:-

Between 200km and 699km it's 15kph.
700km to 1299km it's 13.3kph
1300km to 1899km it's 12kph
1900km to 2499km it's 10kph
From 2500km onwards it is 200km per day.

Time limits for a BRM 200 are fixed at 13h30. A BRM 400 has a fixed 27 hour time limit.

No extra time is given on a BRM ride for any over-distance part.

BRM rides should not be excessively overdistance, I think it's 10% although this has been ignored (there was a 225km BRM 200 ride in the calendar last year).

For BR rides:-

Same as above except the organiser can pick a minimum average speed for an event between 200km and 699km to be anything between 14.3kph and 15kph.

With BR rides some of the over-distance part can count for extra time. The extra time should be calculated against the minimum distance between controls and not the routesheet distance.

So a 200km Audax that is billed as 213km (on the calendar/routesheet) but has 208km shortest distance between controls could have time limits of:-

13h30 if the ride is BRM. Note that it is not 200/15 = 13h20 since the time limit for a BRM 200 is set at 13h30 by the regulations.

BR rides:-

13h20 if the organiser uses the 200km base distance and applies the 15kph minimum average speed. They shouldn't really do this, but many do.
13h59 if the organiser uses the 200km base distance and applies the 14.3kph minimum average speed. Some do this.

13h52 if the organiser uses the 208km shortest distance and 15kph.
14h32 if the organiser uses the 208km shortest distance and 14.3kph.

14h12 if the organiser uses the 213km routesheet distance and 15kph. They shouldn't use the routesheet distance though, unless it is very close to the shortest distance.
14h53 if the organiser uses the 213km routesheet distance and 14.3kph. They shouldn't use the routesheet distance though, unless it is very close to the shortest distance.

The shortest distance between controls isn't usually published anywhere, which is why the timings in the Brevet card don't always match up with what is expected. Some organisers do adjust the control distances to the minimum distances when setting up the content of the Brevet card. I don't have my stash of Brevet cards to hand to go find one. You'll notice this as the distances on the Brevet card don't match the control distances on the routesheet.

It all depends on what the organiser puts in the relevant boxes when creating the event.

Populaires:-

There's no official minimum speed for Brevet Populaires (all rides under 200km and a few rides over 200km). It's up to the organiser to pick a suitable minimum average speed that fits with their controls and plans for the day. Most calendar entries have a minimum average speed between 10kph and 15kph.

DIY populaires used to be 8.3kph minimum average speed.

The 1300km Populaire version of LEJOG/JOGLE has a minimum average speed of just 3kph.

The 1400km BR version of LEJOG/JOGLE has a minimum average speed of 12kph (in line with the guidelines above).

All of that and then I find this: AUDAX Max and Min speed (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=13934.0)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Greenbank on May 13, 2011, 09:51:43 am
And to answer the original question:-

What are the time limits for each distance? I don't seem to be able to find a simple list  ???

200km - 13h30 BRM
300km - 20h BRM
400km - 27h BRM
600km - 40h BRM
1000km - 75h BRM (possibly 75h11)
1200km - 90h BRM
1400km - 116h

BR rides you possibly get a bit extra for the lower minimum average speed and over-distance bits.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feline on May 13, 2011, 11:34:29 am
GB you might have just scared the guy off Audax for life that is so complicated  ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on May 13, 2011, 12:25:06 pm
GB you might have just scared the guy off Audax for life that is so complicated  ;D
;D

Of course in practice it's not an issue:
If you're planning your weekend, just use 14.5kph to give you a ballpark finish time.
Then at the start, your Brevet Card will have the exact times on.

...
...
...
All of that and then I find this: AUDAX Max and Min speed (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=13934.0)
Well I was going to post that it's in the FAQ, but I know how much people enjoy explaining this stuff so I kept quiet ... ;)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Doosh on May 13, 2011, 01:25:03 pm
And to answer the original question:-

What are the time limits for each distance? I don't seem to be able to find a simple list  ???

200km - 13h30 BRM
300km - 20h BRM
400km - 27h BRM
600km - 40h BRM
1000km - 75h BRM (possibly 75h11)
1200km - 90h BRM
1400km - 116h

BR rides you possibly get a bit extra for the lower minimum average speed and over-distance bits.

That's the badger I was after! sorry I wasn't very clear.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: JohnHamilton on May 13, 2011, 02:29:27 pm
GB you might have just scared the guy off Audax for life that is so complicated  ;D

Especially as it's not that complicated in reality.

BR event time limits are calculated from the actual on the road distance. Minimum distance between controls doesn't come into it.

Where you've got discrepancies between route sheet and brevet card it's basically because the organiser hasn't set it up properly when entering the event in the planner.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Banjo on May 18, 2011, 04:57:28 pm
So if you don't have a GPS thingy, what are the quality of directions like?

I am a newbie to Audax I dont have a GPS so far I have done 5 rides and some routecards are better than others but all have got me around the course, only once did I really need to check the map.(page ripped ouit of cheap road atlas)

You need to follow each instruction on the card , if you just follow a group thenn end up on your own again its hard to know where you are on the list of instructions.

I rewrite them in larger print and laminate them in plastic.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on May 19, 2011, 11:56:28 pm
How am I supposed to road-test a new light AND bank some sleep for the weekend's 400k? Hmmm?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feline on May 19, 2011, 11:59:26 pm
How am I supposed to road-test a new light AND bank some sleep for the weekend's 400k? Hmmm?

Get someone else to go out there and ride it in the dark for you while you sleep  ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: henshaw11 on May 20, 2011, 12:36:45 am
As an aside - since I was headscratching over what BR and BRM meant - there's some info on both here:
http://www.cambridge-cycling-club.org.uk/pdfs/audax_virgin_part1.pdf

(I daresay it may be elsewhere but it wasn't exactly at the forefront of any google searches..)

One - probably very silly-question...recently I was looking at surrey events (since being effectively carless - mostly by choice  - which means getting anywhere else for a start time probably isn't gonna happen), then realised they were either within a week, or some way off.
I do realise organisers need time to get ..eer..organised, but do they tend to be *very* strict on attempted late entries ? (eg on a 2 week cutoff). It could, of course, vary with organisers, I guess...
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feline on May 20, 2011, 12:40:55 am
As an aside - since I was headscratching over what BR and BRM meant - there's some info on both here:
http://www.cambridge-cycling-club.org.uk/pdfs/audax_virgin_part1.pdf

(I daresay it may be elsewhere but it wasn't exactly at the forefront of any google searches..)

One - probably very silly-question...recently I was looking at surrey events (since being effectively carless - mostly by choice  - which means getting anywhere else for a start time probably isn't gonna happen), then realised they were either within a week, or some way off.
I do realise organisers need time to get ..eer..organised, but do they tend to be *very* strict on attempted late entries ? (eg on a 2 week cutoff). It could, of course, vary with organisers, I guess...

Varies loads between events. Best to contact the organiser and ask them. if they allow Paypal entry and they haven't closed the ride on the AUK site to entries then you are probably OK.
There's a few upcoming 600k's that are full because of PBP and have been for months though.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: henshaw11 on May 20, 2011, 01:41:08 am
Thanks for that - I think I'll just have to keep an eye out.

I only really thought (again) about doing audax after a few recent FNTTC trips - I'm fine running for a fair while on very little sleep, but it's the catching up on it which seems to roger me :(
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cyklisten on May 30, 2011, 05:11:42 pm
A different question.

Does anyone know if it is easy to get a control in Yalding (Kent), particularly on Sundays?  Any suggestions (I'll probably be starting a ride from there at around 8am and probably finishing 8pm ish plus or minus an hour).

Billy, you've probably had the answer already but, if not, Yalding station - Permit to travel.
There is a Costcutter but not sure about the hours

Andy
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Billy Weir on May 30, 2011, 07:17:45 pm
Thanks.

As it turns out, I was able to track in on the GPS as a DIY.  But passing through Yalding on a Sunday did hint that getting there after 4pm would require a wee bit of ingenuity.  The pub looked promising though.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fungus on June 21, 2011, 12:51:06 pm
Is it possible to get club points from pre 2008 as I would like to see who has the most points recorded for Tamworth CC.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Bigsybaby on July 11, 2011, 10:59:31 pm
Minimum average speeds:-

For BRM rides:-

Between 200km and 699km it's 15kph.
700km to 1299km it's 13.3kph
1300km to 1899km it's 12kph
1900km to 2499km it's 10kph
From 2500km onwards it is 200km per day.

I went out on my bike on Sunday for about two hours and I was on the easiest gear and the easiest chainring and my cadence was around 90. My average speed was 18.6kph. If I were to do that on PBP would I get round easily? Think about Lance Armstrong (albeit I am not in his league) before you give your considered opinion!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Billy Weir on July 12, 2011, 07:58:26 am
Not sure what you are asking BB.  A better indicator of how easily (or otherwise) you'll get around any event is to look at your next longest ride.  If you've qualified for PBP, you will have done a 600 and this should give a good indicator.

It's impossible to extrapolate a 2 hour pootle into a 100 hour ride, as the demands on body and mind are so much different.  Assuming you maintain the same pace across the ride, however, you'd have roughly 23 hours to spend off the bike.  How easy it is to get around PBP with that "cushion" depends on how much of a faffer you are at controls and how much sleep you are prepared to get by on.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hellymedic on July 18, 2011, 12:07:20 am
I never did PBP because I reckoned I was too slow. I scraped round flatter brevets fairly close to time and took 74¾ hours for a 1000km brevet.
I reckon you ought to be able to do a rolling 600 in 37 hours to have a chance.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Assasin on July 18, 2011, 12:24:45 pm
BB
I reckon that you need to do at least evens km/hr ave road speed as a minimum.
But you were in bottom gear so I think you might be going at more than 18.8km/h in a higher gear.
It is one of the factors you need to consider the others being sleep/troughing time etc.
A difficult balance of what works for you of road speed & resting time.

If its any consolation I think I was on the same ride as you when you completed an RTYRA and you were miles up the road from me towards the end of the ride so you should be Ok.
(I was on a red tandem).
Just remember not to waste any time - at least not until you come back from Brest.
Get to Brest comfortably and well within the 40 hours and just enjoy the return leg & the extra 10 hours you get to sleep & faff.
I'll be doing the same!!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Bigsybaby on July 19, 2011, 01:21:11 pm
A “grey hair” suggested as a strategy to treat the event as 3 - 400`s.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Assasin on July 19, 2011, 01:58:07 pm
As one of the greyer grey hairs - yes you can do that
Just remember that the first 400 has to be within 27 hours
The other two will be  slower as you get the full effect of the event
If you are up for the full 90 hours of fun it might be better to treat it as a 600 followed by two 300's.
600 inside 40 hours followed by two 300's inside 25 hours each.

I would try to earn & maintain a float of about 2 hours westbound for
any problems physical/mechanical that might happen.
Hopefully they won't but you need a contingency just in case.

on the return if you can maintain the same pace the time in hand should increase to cover sleep stops of a suitable length.
whatever you do don't try to ride through night 3 (tues) without sleep
That when you can screw the whole thing up as most ordinary mortals can't do it.
That was passed on to me by an even greyer grey hair who knows these things.

Enjoy it BB
Find a big green windbreak (my crew) and we will get you home
We are also slow up and fast down.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on July 19, 2011, 02:21:15 pm
My strategy will be to ride as fast as I possibly can at all times and hope that's enough.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: YahudaMoon on July 19, 2011, 03:46:16 pm
Can you (would you) do a audax on a Brompton or are they a pig long distance up n down hills ? Also is that rear pannier rack looking thing on a Brompton actually a rear  pannier rack ?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 19, 2011, 03:58:51 pm
Tal of this parish has completed PBP, LEL and Mille Miglia on his customised Brompton. An Italian rode LEL01 on a three speed Brompton.

The rear rack will take a big racktop bag but don't even think about panniers.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on July 19, 2011, 04:23:50 pm
There were several Bromptons on the Dunwich Dynamo this weekend.

Mal Volio has taken one up the Col Du Tourmalet, I do believe!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: border-rider on July 19, 2011, 04:34:16 pm
Aubisque, Aspin, Tourmalet, Mont Ventoux & Puy de Dome  :)

(not all the same day, or even the same year, and I didn't have the cojones to descend them onna Brommie)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: YahudaMoon on July 19, 2011, 04:42:24 pm
Oooh good. Ive wanted one for years. Along with other bicycles. My panniers are very small, they could fit ?. I seen a Brompten conversion once that had dropped handle bars and Ive been in love ever since :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 19, 2011, 05:01:22 pm
No panniers on the back. I know a fellow who made a rack that mounts a pair of front panniers on the Brompton block, either side of the headset.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wobbly on July 19, 2011, 10:16:30 pm
A “grey hair” suggested as a strategy to treat the event as 3 - 400`s.

I object to being called a "grey hair". I have no hair thses days and reject these hairist insults.

But 3 x 400k's is my strategy. Although I endorse the 600 + 2x300 strategy also.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: valkyrie on July 19, 2011, 10:36:50 pm
I've just entered my first DIY-GPS, for a 200 starting/finish at my house. On the entry form I had to specify a ride date. For normal perms I like to keep a few cards in the drawer for the odd free weekend ride, can I "keep" my virtual GPS-DIY card or does it expire if I don't use it on the correct date?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: RichForrest on July 20, 2011, 12:14:39 am
You can leave the date blank but must email the org before you leave on the ride.
When riders pay me for rides I add them to a spreadsheet and add the rides as and when they enter.
Riders can enter just before they leave home if they want to, but have to be sure the ride is ok for distance.
If it comes out short when I check it it will have to be refused.

I have sent my organiser a ride the same way and he is happy with that also.
Check with yours and see what he does

Rich
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: TrevA on July 21, 2011, 03:44:46 pm
I've ridden a few audaxes which I've entered on the line. Although, I'm listed as finishing in the results, they don't show up in "My results" in the members part of the audax site.

Is there any way of getting these credited to yourself?

 I've done enough events to get my Brevet 500, but only 3 official results are showing in my results.

My results for 2011
ACP Brevet Evno Memno Event Date Pts AAA Climb
 10-307 7656 ALFRETON, NW of Nottingham 110 13 Nov (To the Races)
 11-224 7656 CRICH, Derbyshire 104 04 Jun (Tramway 100)
 11-114 7656 ALFRETON, Derbyshire 154 25 Jun (North notts sleepy villages)

I've also ridden the Roses to Wrags 200, the 3 fields 100, plus a couple of other audaxes more recently - Cotswolds Outing and China Teapot (These were entered in advance, but the results aren't available yet.)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: phil d on July 21, 2011, 04:15:15 pm
Trev,

Whether you enter on the line or in advance makes no difference to the recording of events.  If you look at the "Individual Rides List" under the Results tab, your three recorded rides are listed.  When I look at my own "My Results" under the Members tab the information is identical to the Individual Rides List (as I would expect).  While I can look at your Individual Rides List, I cannot look at your My Results page as it is password protected.  If yours are different it would suggest a system quirk, which should be reported to the webmaster, Pete Coates, who sometimes posts here.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: TrevA on July 21, 2011, 05:23:14 pm
Thanks, but it looks to me as when you enter on the line (not online) the organiser doesn't know your AUK number and so you don't get credited with the ride. The system doesn't seem to be smart enough to recognise you, but I was wondering if there was a way to link or include the EOL rides into "my results", without intervention by the webmaster.

If you look at the results of the 3 fields and Roses to Wrags, I'm listed but the result doesn't carry over into "My results".
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on July 21, 2011, 06:19:59 pm
Entering ON the line is the same as entering by post (except later). In both cases the organiser needs to spot your AUK number and key that into the results web-interface. (This is actually quicker than keying in non-members).

I guess if he has a pile of (non-member) on-the-line entries to process, he may miss the odd member in there. In which case the "webmaster" (I don't know who this really is, but someone here will!) probably needs to manually link your entry to your "AUK" self.

Probably.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Erudin on July 27, 2011, 03:02:50 am
How long does it take to get used to kilometres, any tips on making the switch? I've changed my bike computer to kilometres for my next audax ride (http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/11-128/), worked in miles for previous rides but can't bear to re-type the route-sheet and convert it all to miles this time.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: phil d on July 27, 2011, 06:53:08 am
It didn't take me very long.  Nowadays I do all my cycling in kilometres, and find I can very quickly convert between km and miles when in conversation with non-audaxers*  If you have a computer that can be set for different wheel sizes, you can set it so that one "wheel size" is actually reading km and the other miles.  If you can be bothered.

*on several occasions when I've been chatting to cyclists I've met on the road they have mentioned a ride distance in kilometres.  They're surprised when I respond "oh, you're an audaxer", but using kilometres is a fairly reliable identifier.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Billy Weir on July 27, 2011, 07:48:31 am
The irony of the event you entered is that it is what the imperialists call a century.  100 miles = 160km (or thereabouts).  It might even be the route sheet shows both miles and kilometres (I've been on a couple of centuries that have done just that, but not having done the one you are on, not sure if it will be the case there).

You have the joy of converting road signs from miles to kilometres to look forward to.  It's not instant when you first ride, but multiply by 3 and divide by 2, and add a bit will get you there or thereabouts.  After a while it will become second nature to convert 3 miles to just under 5km (say).  A bit like darts players, figuring out what score they have left - a combination of arithmetic brilliance and experience - in other words.

Another thing I've seen done (although very unusual) is for riders to adjust the instructions on their routesheet.  There's no reason why you can't break the mould and tippex out the "forrun" km distances and overwrite them with the queen's own miles.  Or scribble the miles figure on the sheet alongside the km.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: MattH on July 27, 2011, 08:06:23 am
It doesn't take long to adjust at all. And, until you've got used to the major conversions and can rattle them out (10miles=16km, 50km=31miles etc.) then you can amuse yourself doing the conversions in your head on the road (multiply by 5, divide by 8 or vice-versa depending upon which way you are going). It's a good sign of your current mental state how quickly you can do this, or even if you can maintain the concentration to be bothered at all  :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Oaky on July 27, 2011, 09:49:02 am
I've changed my computer to km for all of my Audax rides to date bar one (my most recent).

On some of my earliest rides I thought I'd be reliant on using the distances on the route sheet to spot instructions (so much so that if cumulative distances weren't provided then I'd run the route through bikely to redo the routesheet with cumulatives on it).

Since then I've become more used to the route sheets and probably won't bother switching to km in future.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on July 31, 2011, 06:00:06 pm
... it looks to me as when you enter on the line (not online) the organiser doesn't know your AUK number and so you don't get credited with the ride. The system doesn't seem to be smart enough to recognise you ...

'The system' is very much MemNo-driven.  When you enter in advance it is to the Organiser's advantage to use your Memno to help populate the Start List, and this information eventually makes its way through to the Results. 
When you enter on the line the Start List is already in paper form, and your name may be simply scribbled on as an addition.  If things happen this way, there's a good chance of your memno getting lost in the process.
It's very much dependent on the Organiser - some will process on the line entries 'properly' (assuming you put your membership number on the entry form you signed at the start) but you've obviously found one or more who don't.  Some won't handle on the line entries at all.
[ edited - thanks, mattc ! ]
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on July 31, 2011, 06:46:19 pm
... some will process online entries 'properly' (assuming you put your membership number on the entry form you signed at the start) but you've obviously found one or more who don't.  Some won't handle online entries at all.
There should be a fine for this error  ::-)

 ;)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on August 02, 2011, 11:04:30 am
Sorry!  Quite right.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: CramCycle on August 10, 2011, 07:04:30 pm
Is it possible to get a 400km medal if you do a 400 perm or is it only on organised rides?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Billy Weir on August 10, 2011, 07:09:26 pm
Is it possible to get a 400km medal if you do a 400 perm or is it only on organised rides?

There is no difference between the treatment of perms and calendars in this regard.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Revellinho on September 04, 2011, 08:11:40 pm
Am I correct in thinking that GPS files are the only way to get AAA points for a DIY?  I was rather hoping that contour counts could be submitted for scrutiny and points be validated that way.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Billy Weir on September 04, 2011, 09:14:35 pm
It's GPS only.

The reason being that, AIUI, it would involve a disproproportionate amount of effort to validate AAA climbing by contour counting.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Billy Weir on September 10, 2011, 11:39:32 am
Question for South East riders.

I'm plotting out a 200km hilly permanent for the south east (intending to list it formally if it works out and is a nice enough ride).  Ideally, it would have a physical control around Keston - to save me a ride/drive out and a random hunt, does anyone have any suggestions of petrol stations (with opening hours), shops ATMs etc?  I'm thinking Hayes, which look like it has some options?

PS.  Route is planned to be something like:
Edenbridge - Swanley - Langton Green - Battle - Mayfield - Forest Row - Keston - Edenbridge (c. 210km, 3AAA)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feline on September 10, 2011, 11:55:27 am
Question for South East riders.

I'm plotting out a 200km hilly permanent for the south east (intending to list it formally if it works out and is a nice enough ride).  Ideally, it would have a physical control around Keston - to save me a ride/drive out and a random hunt, does anyone have any suggestions of petrol stations (with opening hours), shops ATMs etc?  I'm thinking Hayes, which look like it has some options?

PS.  Route is planned to be something like:
Edenbridge - Swanley - Langton Green - Battle - Mayfield - Forest Row - Keston - Edenbridge (c. 210km, 3AAA)

From the Total web site http://www.total.co.uk/Uk/UkCorporate.nsf/VS_SWI/44FC72B48F3FD7D0C12573D70030B2FE?OpenDocument&:


HAYES SERVICE STATION
1 STATION APPROACH
HAYES
BROMLEY
Kent
BR2 7EQ
Click for Map
Store participating in the P9 Renault promotion
Services
Tyre air line
Opening Times
Mon - Fri:
12:00AM - 12:00AM
Saturday:
12:00AM - 12:00AM
Sunday:
12:00AM - 12:00AM
Open 24hrs a day, seven days a week.
Site features
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: αdαmsκι on September 10, 2011, 05:27:29 pm
I was in Hayes earlier today. How about here? (http://maps.google.co.uk/?q=Keston&ll=51.37683,0.011265&spn=0.006402,0.021136&t=m&z=16&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=51.376617,0.011286&panoid=cbll6mvA4a7G53tLIat1pA&cbp=12,130.13,,0,0) Hayes would make a good control because of the transport links into central London.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Billy Weir on September 11, 2011, 07:03:24 am
Thanks both.  Looks like the event is feasible.  I'll give the northern half of the ride a try out with a draft routesheet later this month.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Billy Weir on September 15, 2011, 10:02:20 pm
Anyone know when ACP typically publish the list of French and, if done separately, global BRM events?

(I would like to see what 1000km events are being done next year before deciding whether or not to enter the Mille Alba.)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: JohnHamilton on September 16, 2011, 09:49:18 am
Anyone know when ACP typically publish the list of French and, if done separately, global BRM events?

January usually.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Baron Brymbo von Pickelhaube on September 20, 2011, 09:12:38 pm
I am not yet a member of AUK but I intend to start a RRTY with the Upper Thames in November.  (I was confused by the difference between the events year and membership year when I decided to do this, but decided it is.)  Do I have to be an AUK member for the 12 months covered by the RRTY in order to claim the award (and badge!) or can a validated Brevet card for the Upper Thames count towards a RRTY if I join AUK in December?  I say December because I assume this would fall under the "although new members joining late in the year will be subscribed until the end of the following year" provision stated on the AUK website.

The remainder of the RRTY would be mostly DIY permanents by GPS (probably with some rides repeated) and some calendar events.  Am I correct in believing that this would be acceptable for a RRTY award?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Martin on September 20, 2011, 09:16:35 pm
can a validated Brevet card for the Upper Thames count towards a RRTY if I join AUK in December?  The remainder of the RRTY would be mostly DIY permanents by GPS (probably with some rides repeated) and some calendar events.  Am I correct in believing that this would be acceptable for a RRTY award?

I'm pretty sure you can claim back validation for rides in the season in which you join AUK; you need to keep your brevet cards though as not all events validate non-members online so there is not a central record

DIY by GPS; no problem for RRTY  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Phixie on September 20, 2011, 10:11:25 pm
can a validated Brevet card for the Upper Thames count towards a RRTY if I join AUK in December?  The remainder of the RRTY would be mostly DIY permanents by GPS (probably with some rides repeated) and some calendar events.  Am I correct in believing that this would be acceptable for a RRTY award?

I'm pretty sure you can claim back validation for rides in the season in which you join AUK claim; you need to keep your brevet cards though as not all events validate non-members online so there is not a central record

DIY by GPS; no problem for RRTY  :thumbsup:

FTFY

Regards,

RP
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Jamie on September 21, 2011, 10:26:06 am
If you join AUK now, your membership runs until the end of 2012.  I know, because I've just done so.   :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Martin on September 21, 2011, 12:38:29 pm
If you join AUK now, your membership runs until the end of 2012.  I know, because I've just done so.   :)

if it runs out this year can we also renew it for 5 years at the current rate?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: afl2 on September 24, 2011, 11:27:57 am
I have read the all questions audax section on the forum but found no guide.
I am due to do my first audax next month and have never been to one.
Silly question but are they well advertised locally to enable you to find them and what do you do when you get there?
I have never used a route sheet or riden with any time restrictions. Will the route sheet keep me awake all night!!???
Thanks
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: MattH on September 24, 2011, 12:27:16 pm
Silly question but are they well advertised locally to enable you to find them

Not usually. The information you get from the organiser will give you directions to the start, and there is usually an Audax UK control sign outside the start building.

Quote
and what do you do when you get there?

At the start you'll normally see a table with brevet cards and plastic bags. Find your card, put it in a plastic bag. You don't normally have to tell the organiser that you are there - he'll know because your card has gone.

edit: you don't need to get a stamp at the start, having the brevet card proves you were there at the right time.

Make sure your bike is all ready to go, then grab a coffee and/or some food. Keep an eye on the time, the hall will suddenly empty a few minutes before the off, and without an announcement. People will be queuing up outside on their bikes ready for the organiser to tell them to go.

Quote
I have never used a route sheet or riden with any time restrictions. Will the route sheet keep me awake all night!!???
Thanks

It's pretty easy. Have you got a route sheet holder on your bars? That's by far the easiest way to handle them. I laminate the sheet to keep it dry, then use a bulldog clip on the stem to hold it in place, but there are many solutions to holding it. The worst is to keep it in your back pocket - it's difficult to refer to it.

Here's my routesheet holder - the white stuff is polymorph plastic, moulded to fit the stem perfectly. It is now covered in black tape to merge in with the stem, and held in place with a cable tie.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5096/5476308379_93ca5c5e5d.jpg)(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5094/5476308607_667dbef331.jpg)

Remember to take a pen with you (for info controls) and some money for food. Don't be shy about telling people it's your first, they'll normally look after you.

Which ride are you on?

Edit: Welcome to YACF! Keep an eye out for YACF jerseys, it's an easy conversation opener to ask someone who they are on the forum. Similarly, if someone is wearing an Audax Cymru (white/green) or Audax England (predominantly red) jersey, there is a very good chance that they hang around here.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Gareth Rees on September 24, 2011, 01:33:54 pm
what do you do when you get there?

Collect your brevet card, and eat and drink something.

Quote
I have never used a route sheet or ridden with any time restrictions.

As Matt said above, it's a good idea to attach the route sheet to your bike in some way, and to protect it from rain. A handlebar map holder works well, but some people just tape a plastic bag to the handlebars and put the route sheet in that.

Route sheets are usually pretty good, and on popular rides you can follow the other riders, but you ought to have a plan for what to do if you go off-route. This might be a GPS device, or a page torn from an old road atlas, but having a backup will give you peace of mind.

Don't worry too much about the time limit on your first audax. Save that for later rides when you know how it all works. Take it at a pace you know you can keep up all day, and enjoy the ride—it's supposed to be fun!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on September 24, 2011, 07:33:49 pm

I am due to do my first audax next month and have never been to one.


which one?

ETA I see MattH has already asked;as you were :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on September 24, 2011, 07:35:58 pm


Remember to take a pen with you (for info controls)

I prefer a pencil.It will write in the rain: a pen may not
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ian H on September 24, 2011, 07:49:29 pm
...Will the route sheet keep me awake all night!!???...


How long is this first Audax event?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: afl2 on September 25, 2011, 08:15:34 pm
Hi all
Thanks for your advice.
I have registered for the bala mini bash as its near.
I will proberbly use some form of clear plastic for the route as you have suggested and shown through the pics.
I think the reading/understanding of route sheets may take a bit to get used to.
Thanks for your advice and will keep an eye out for the audax 's you mentioned.

Afl2
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: afl2 on September 26, 2011, 04:51:30 pm
60km its the mini
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: border-rider on September 26, 2011, 04:55:41 pm
I think the reading/understanding of route sheets may take a bit to get used to.

Hope not, but if you're confused on the day just ask a fellow rider. Probably a good way to break the ice anyway :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: MattH on September 26, 2011, 05:04:53 pm
And to help with confidence with the routesheet, it is worth reading through it in advance, following the route on a map (like Google maps). You should get a copy a week or two before the ride.

If you do this, note that sometimes a turn that is obvious on the ground is less obvious on a map (e.g. it can be difficult on lanes to see which way at a junction is a turn, and which is straight on, following Google maps - unless you drop into street view).

Have fun!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ian H on September 26, 2011, 09:55:30 pm
For plotting routesheets on a map, I often find it easiest to find, on the map, the shortest route between two controls, then try to follow the route instructions. Usually it becomes obvious even when some instructions are not.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fungus on September 27, 2011, 01:49:47 pm
RRTY question:  If you ride a 200k as an organiser ie: a week before the ride as a route check could you still claim that ride for the actual audax date.

The route check was done on the 29th of August & the Audax was in September.

I haven't done a September 200k yet & am plucking at straws, I may be able to get friday off work for a last minute 200.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ian H on September 27, 2011, 03:40:55 pm
RRTY question:  If you ride a 200k as an organiser ie: a week before the ride as a route check could you still claim that ride for the actual audax date.

The route check was done on the 29th of August & the Audax was in September.

I haven't done a September 200k yet & am plucking at straws, I may be able to get friday off work for a last minute 200.

You'd best address your question to Mike Wigley, as he's the organiser of that award.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Billy Weir on September 27, 2011, 07:27:54 pm
RRTY question:  If you ride a 200k as an organiser ie: a week before the ride as a route check could you still claim that ride for the actual audax date.

The route check was done on the 29th of August & the Audax was in September.

I haven't done a September 200k yet & am plucking at straws, I may be able to get friday off work for a last minute 200.

Regardless of what Mike W says the rules permit (or otherwise) do you really believe in your heart of hearts that you will have done a RRTY if you rely on that ruse?  These awards are personal and you have to be able to respect your own achievement.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fungus on September 27, 2011, 07:44:00 pm
You're right! I'm gonna try & get Friday off work.  I wouldn't mind but I did 1600k last month  :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fboab on September 27, 2011, 08:17:01 pm
RRTY question:  If you ride a 200k as an organiser ie: a week before the ride as a route check could you still claim that ride for the actual audax date.

The route check was done on the 29th of August & the Audax was in September.

I haven't done a September 200k yet & am plucking at straws, I may be able to get friday off work for a last minute 200.

Regardless of what Mike W says the rules permit (or otherwise) do you really believe in your heart of hearts that you will have done a RRTY if you rely on that ruse?  These awards are personal and you have to be able to respect your own achievement.

Today marks the completion of my 'proper' RRTY. I have the badge and my name in the Hall of Fame but I took advantage of the 59 day January which has always had a small tinge of cheating for me. But today (subject to validation of my ECE) marks 12 genuine months. Now I need to decide if Feb is month 1 or month 7...

Conscience, it's a killer.

(Feb was month 1)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fungus on September 27, 2011, 09:33:14 pm
Month 7 then you can get out all through the winter like I'm gonna have to  :demon:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on October 01, 2011, 09:07:18 am
RRTY question:  If you ride a 200k as an organiser ie: a week before the ride as a route check could you still claim that ride for the actual audax date.

The route check was done on the 29th of August & the Audax was in September.

I haven't done a September 200k yet & am plucking at straws, I may be able to get friday off work for a last minute 200.

I did exactly that yesterday, riding my route check for the Anfractuous as a DIY Perm so I could record a September ride.

It's not really an option for route check rides but I have started a ride on 23:30 on 31/8 to keep an RRTY streak alive. Sad but true.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: phil d on October 03, 2011, 01:05:33 pm
RRTY question:  If you ride a 200k as an organiser ie: a week before the ride as a route check could you still claim that ride for the actual audax date.

The route check was done on the 29th of August & the Audax was in September.

I haven't done a September 200k yet & am plucking at straws, I may be able to get friday off work for a last minute 200.

I did exactly that yesterday, riding my route check for the Anfractuous as a DIY Perm so I could record a September ride.

It's not really an option for route check rides but I have started a ride on 23:30 on 31/8 to keep an RRTY streak alive. Sad but true.
If I've read Fungus's question (and your response) correctly, what you did was exactly NOT what Fungus was suggesting.  You did a ride in September to be counted as a September ride.  Fungus wanted to call a ride ridden in August a September ride.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on October 03, 2011, 01:22:38 pm
RRTY question:  If you ride a 200k as an organiser ie: a week before the ride as a route check could you still claim that ride for the actual audax date.

The route check was done on the 29th of August & the Audax was in September.

I haven't done a September 200k yet & am plucking at straws, I may be able to get friday off work for a last minute 200.

Regardless of what Mike W says the rules permit (or otherwise) do you really believe in your heart of hearts that you will have done a RRTY if you rely on that ruse?  These awards are personal and you have to be able to respect your own achievement.
Completely agree with Billy that these things are a personal decision.

My 2p-worth:
The point of the route-check/helpers-ride thingy is partly as compensation for the helpers not being able to ride the calendar event on the day. This seems compatible with an  RRTY ride , ethically speaking. But that's just my thought ...
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: border-rider on October 03, 2011, 01:27:24 pm
I also agree that it's an entirely personal decision

My own view would be that RRTY is about getting out and doing a ride each month, come what may, and that's really not an easy thing to do.  Which is why it's a challenge. Not doing a  ride in one month seems to me to be a hole in your achievement and for me it would feel a bit false.  I'd have similar views if I'd taken advantage of the artificially-long January we had a couple of years ago. But as I say, just a personal view.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on October 03, 2011, 01:52:02 pm
Having reread the post PhilD is of course correct.

With my audax facist hat on - which mostly stays on the peg - I would regard such as being sharp practice but within the rules so what the heck. You could say much the same of my 23:30 31/8 start. In any long term major enterprise it is inevitable that some short cuts are taken here or there (ask anybody who has wandered off the route sheet to avoid some hazard, or decided not to ride a perm because it was raining).

FWIW I was far more exercised about the RRTY 'snow' rules which allowed January rides to be performed in February. How northern riders must have laughed at such accomodations being offered to the southern softies. It's a shame I had already blown my 11 month RRTY streak in December...

Edit: Cross post with MV
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: phil d on October 03, 2011, 06:09:34 pm
It's all academic anyway -

Two battles 200k perm done today for my September RRTY ride  :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Keeff on October 07, 2011, 10:41:58 am
A random audax question :

What are the German, French, Spanish and Italian words for routesheet?

Thanks

Keith
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on October 08, 2011, 05:49:34 pm
According to Google Translate (http://translate.google.co.uk/?hl=en),
routesheet, routesheet, routesheet and routesheet respectively.

It does also ask "did you mean   route sheet?"
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fungus on October 13, 2011, 12:18:47 pm
Brevet 25000 question:

When it says "and other rides to top up to 25000km" does this include all rides or only rides over 200k.  As it's a Brevet award I would think it includes rides under 200k  ???
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Phixie on October 13, 2011, 12:49:59 pm
Brevet 25000 question:

When it says "and other rides to top up to 25000km" does this include all rides or only rides over 200k.  As it's a Brevet award I would think it includes rides under 200k  ???

Think of it as needing 250 points;  100km events don't attract points so can't count for this award.

Extra satisfaction when you do get there, though!

Regards,

RP.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fungus on October 13, 2011, 01:00:17 pm
Think of it as needing 250 points;  100km events don't attract points so can't count for this award.

Extra satisfaction when you do get there, though!

Regards,

RP.

Thanks!  I better get out & get some points then  :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Revolution9 on October 13, 2011, 02:00:59 pm
I noticed in another thread about new year resolutions.

When does the Audax year start and end?

I haven't joined yet, but have signed up for a ride in November.

I was planning to join in January, but if the year starts before then, i'll bring this forward.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fuaran on October 13, 2011, 02:13:36 pm
I noticed in another thread about new year resolutions.

When does the Audax year start and end?
The season for points and awards etc starts on 1st November.
The year for membership starts on 1st January. Though if you join near the end of the year, your membership will run until the end of the following year.
I think if you joined now, your membership would last until the end of 2012.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Kim on October 13, 2011, 03:04:19 pm
I think if you joined now, your membership would last until the end of 2012.

Having joined a couple of weeks ago, I can confirm this.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Revolution9 on October 13, 2011, 04:48:29 pm
good, i'll join tonight then, and Novembers ride will be my first of the year :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on October 16, 2011, 04:21:41 pm
The season for points and awards etc starts on 1st November.

Though this seems likely to change, to 1st Oct, as of the season starting autumn 2012. 
As far as I can see, there will be a special offer for October 2012 - points will count twice ...  :o
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: valkyrie on October 21, 2011, 01:22:05 pm
Anyone understand why it is that for new Perms we've got to make sure that every control is useable 24hrs a day? To me that means that only cash machines and 24hr garages are possible controls. Which means that lots of lovely routes in the North of Scotland can't be made into Perms. It's only easy to make new perms that run along main roads in more densely populated parts of the country, which is the exact opposite of what more people want to ride.

I can't see what would be wrong with creating a perm with an information sheet that told the riders when the controls would be open. That would let the rider plan their start point/time to ensure that they could control properly.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on October 21, 2011, 03:32:29 pm
I can't see what would be wrong with creating a perm with an information sheet that told the riders when the controls would be open. That would let the rider plan their start point/time to ensure that they could control properly.
Completely agree.

Such an info sheet would always be useful for riders. What is odd here is that event organisers are required to arrange reasonable refuelling opportunities at reasonable distances - man cannot live on ATMs.


('fraid I have no idea how this new requirement came about).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ian H on October 21, 2011, 11:20:52 pm
Anyone understand why it is that for new Perms we've got to make sure that every control is useable 24hrs a day? To me that means that only cash machines and 24hr garages are possible controls. Which means that lots of lovely routes in the North of Scotland can't be made into Perms. It's only easy to make new perms that run along main roads in more densely populated parts of the country, which is the exact opposite of what more people want to ride.

I can't see what would be wrong with creating a perm with an information sheet that told the riders when the controls would be open. That would let the rider plan their start point/time to ensure that they could control properly.

I've never insisted on that. But if a rider reaches a control at silly o'clock, it's their responsibility to prove they were there.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Lovely Horse on October 23, 2011, 07:27:17 am
I suspect you, Valkyrie,  are speaking about the requirement for new listed permanents (not DIYs)?

John Ward is not a computer, where everything is a 1 or a 0.  If you have an idea for a permanent that would require a control in a town where the only options are open in (reasonable) hours, then put your idea forward to him.  Based on my past dealings, I suspect you'll get a sympathetic hearing if it is a route in a part of the country not well served at the moment.

From my own rider/organiser perspective, a clear and up to date list of when controls are open seems entirely sensible; the only thought that struck me was the ability to guarantee the control will remain open (and how frequently would you check) and if not, are there alternatives.  Not knowing the details of the route, I'd also be looking (from a rider perspective) that the window of opportunity for riding has some flexibility on where you can start the ride and the time (both of day and of year), but that's personal preference.

That all said, not every good long distance route is suitable for audax.  Proof of control is a fundamental requirement and the 24 hour rule would seem to be a sensible starting point, unless an alternative presents itself.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: PeeJay on October 25, 2011, 12:19:06 pm
A question about ECE's..........

If you ride an ECE to/from a 200k calender event and complete the calender event but fail to finish the ECE. You obviously don't get points for the ECE but do you still get the points for the calender event?

I ask because I was discussing this with a fellow rider on a recent Audax (one that I'd ECE'd) and he was sure that you would forefit the calender event points too as you had not completed what you set out to do. i.e. no different to riding a 300k event and packing at 250k. 
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on October 25, 2011, 12:34:37 pm
I ask because I was discussing this with a fellow rider on a recent Audax (one that I'd ECE'd) and he was sure that you would forefit the calender event points too as you had not completed what you set out to do. i.e. no different to riding a 300k event and packing at 250k.
It seems very reasonable to draw that conclusion, but in fact I am 95% sure that you would not forfeit the calendar event.
(Of course your audacious ethics might compel you to contact the org and have your finish withdrawn ... !)

If you search the ECE threads you'll find this discussed before. Might take you a while, I admit. I think the reasons are mainly bureaucratic, and noone cares enough to change it! (Just MHO)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Gareth Rees on October 25, 2011, 01:34:53 pm
A question about ECE's. If you ride an ECE to/from a 200k calendar event and complete the calendar event but fail to finish the ECE. You obviously don't get points for the ECE but do you still get the points for the calendar event?

Martin Malins answered this one on the original ECE thread:

Quote
If I enter say the BCM600+ECE100, ride the BCM then decide to sack off the ECE part of the ride, would/should the BCM then be invalidated removed when I don't submit my ECE brevet?

I believe this was suggested at the committee stage and fortunately discounted. Apart from being jolly harsh and also quite likely to put people off ECEs, it would be impossible to police: the calendar card goes off for validation anyway.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: PeeJay on October 25, 2011, 02:29:02 pm
Ta for the replies, I thought that would be the case, but can also see the POV that you should do what you set out to do.

Hopefully this will be academic anyway as I hope not to be in that situation - but you never know!

Cheers

P
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Lovely Horse on October 28, 2011, 12:06:36 pm
If I remember, the old AUK website would allow you to download the calendar as an excel file (or at least in a format that allowed you to import into excel).  I can't see that useful functionality on the new website (I would use it to keep track of rides and print address labels etc).

Has this ability to download in a handy format been removed?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: phil d on October 28, 2011, 01:35:21 pm
It would appear that it has.  You could email Pete Coates to see if it can be reinstated.  He's very amenable, though I have no idea how difficult that might be.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: TrevA on November 04, 2011, 07:31:09 pm
What is a WARTY? I understand that the RTY probably means Round The Year, but WA?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on November 04, 2011, 07:50:14 pm
It's nothing to do with Audax - except that the name is an homage to RRTY.

Read about 'em here:

http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=13191.0
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: davebax on November 04, 2011, 08:01:20 pm
Anyone understand why it is that for new Perms we've got to make sure that every control is useable 24hrs a day? To me that means that only cash machines and 24hr garages are possible controls.
Info controls are also used on Perms and are generally 'open' 24 hours a day. They are also very flexible in terms of location. In my limited experience, the org will ask a different info question at the same location for each entrant on a Perm.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on November 09, 2011, 01:45:22 pm
on my renewal notice, my email address differs from my real one by a '.'. I've heard these things are important in eLand.

It's correct on http://www.aukweb.net/members/profile/  , so should I worry?

Are there any fascinating emails I may have missed recently?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on November 09, 2011, 01:52:14 pm
on my renewal notice, my email address differs from my real one by a '.'.

Yes mine's the same.  Definitely odd, but also definitely nothing to worry about.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on November 09, 2011, 01:56:02 pm
Thanks Frank.

(I've just noticed that it's actually missing both of its '.'s. So I suspect an error in the mail merge, or at the printers, or ...  )
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hellymedic on November 09, 2011, 06:17:14 pm
Thanks Frank.

(I've just noticed that it's actually missing both of its '.'s. So I suspect an error in the mail merge, or at the printers, or ...  )

My email address on the renewal form (but not the website) also lacks its dot.
My month of birth is stated as January on the form but June (correct) on the website.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Revolution9 on December 01, 2011, 02:22:32 pm
When will the results for 2011 be finalised and displayed on the website, and 2012 started?

I am aware this is all done by volunteers in their spare time, and there has been an AGM too, so i'm not 'hurrying' anyone up, just wondering whats the usual.

Thanks
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on December 03, 2011, 07:16:14 am
When will the results for 2011 be finalised and displayed on the website, and 2012 started?

It's happened! (2011 is now a "previous year").

Thanks to the workers.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on December 18, 2011, 08:38:17 pm
I'm trying to minimise or even avoid driving to audax events in future.Thus I am considering DIY rides.
I know that Bramshall is a control on The China Run & China Teapot audaxes & Bramshall is only 12km from home.
Could I submit the route of this calendar event & use the routesheet for submission to my DIY organiser?

If the organiser agreed to this proposal I would as a matter of courtesy seek the approval of the Calendar event organiser.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Euan Uzami on December 18, 2011, 08:58:08 pm
I was wondering this, as well , I presume it's deemed courteous to just let them know you're borrowing their "copyright"?
I'm planning on doing some diy rides based on the skeggy 300 as I live only a couple of miles from the route.
If I want to do the perm as it is but just move the start back 50k ish, can I just enter the existing perm but notify the change of start, or is it better to create a whole new diy with the existing controls?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Peter on December 18, 2011, 09:06:17 pm
Ben and Jogler, my (limited) understanding from regular correspondence with Julian Dyson, North-west DIY Tsar, is that if the Calendar organisers also offer the event as a perm then you shouldn't DIY it, you should do it as a perm; but you can usually start a perm anywhere on the route you just have to use all the other controls and infos., too.  I've done this for several of Don Black's and Chris Crossland's rides.

HTH
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on December 18, 2011, 09:14:41 pm
AIUI the Calandar events I refer to are not offered as Perms.
Title: Re: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Euan Uzami on December 18, 2011, 09:23:12 pm
Ben and Jogler, my (limited) understanding from regular correspondence with Julian Dyson, North-west DIY Tsar, is that if the Calendar organisers also offer the event as a perm then you shouldn't DIY it, you should do it as a perm; but you can usually start a perm anywhere on the route you just have to use all the other controls and infos., too.  I've done this for several of Don Black's and Chris Crossland's rides.

HTH

Does that just apply to the route as it stands, or does it mean you shouldn't extend it either?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on December 18, 2011, 09:29:27 pm
ISTM it is very much down to the individual, rider and org. The thing is, nobody 'owns' the roads so any claims to route copyright are a bit tenuous. Having said that it's right to respect the effort Orgs have put into setting up a route. My take is that if there is a listed perm available which fits in with my plans then I will ride it, even if it means some extra effort. If nothing else it adds interest to the outing riding somebody else's route. Elsewise I'll DIY the route.

For example, there are several 100km routes about 50km from home, some available as perms others not. Last year it suited my objectives to ride the routes as 200km DIYs from home (you cannot 'ECE' perms); where there were 100km perms available I mailed the Orgs and they were fine with it. This year I'd probably enter the 100km perm (if it is available) or not carry a Brevet at all.

Be assured most Orgs are more then happy to help riders, for example, by allowing them to start/finish between listed controls (from a convenient train station, home, whatever). As long as you hit the controls within the time limits the ride is still legal and most perms stipulate a min speed of 14.3km so tim limits are more generous than for a calendar. If in doubt, mail the Org.
Title: Re: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on December 19, 2011, 03:36:35 pm
... is that if the Calendar organisers also offer the event as a perm then you shouldn't DIY it, you should do it as a perm

Does that just apply to the route as it stands, or does it mean you shouldn't extend it either?
I don't believe there is any etiqutte for this, written or unwritten. As you can't extend a perm to be an ECE, I take the view that its polite to ask the organiser anyway. On the other hand, if you've paid for and ridden his(her) route once or more, it feels OK to rip off the routesheet to use as part of a longer DIY. (Perhaps you could offer to pay the entry fee anyway, if you haven't ridden it yet. i stress offer ;) ).

Ethics are a personal thing!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: phil d on December 19, 2011, 04:57:15 pm
I may have misunderstood Jogler's and Ben's comments, but there is a great difficulty in getting a perm agreed that uses a calendar event routesheet if there are info controls involved.  It may be that you can obtain adequate proof of passage, but a common feature of info controls is that they are in the middle of nowhere.  Of course, verification by GPS gets over this.

I have done a number of calendar events as GPS DIYs (always with the organiser's blessing; I think that is a common curtesy).  It would be a little harsh on the DIY organiser to expect them to accept the routesheet as the delineation of your route - you would need to clearly identify each of your "control" points.  But be aware that there are still a few calendar events that don't pass muster on the minimum distance between controls rule.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on December 19, 2011, 06:02:29 pm
the minimum distance between controls rule.

where can I find these rules please?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: phil d on December 19, 2011, 06:17:23 pm
I am merely referring to the fact that the minimum distance between start and finish, passing through all control points, must be not less than the nominal distance (200k or whatever).  The actual routesheet might take you on a longer route to avoid main roads, etc.  This is pretty much the first check (maybe the only check) that the DIY organiser will do when you lodge your entry.  The method of measuring this minimum distance has been discussed on these boards many times, but depending on the organiser is usually done on Autoroute (using "shortest") or GoogleMaps (using "walking", though beware that this will often route you down a bridleway that you wouldn't venture along on a road bike.  I'm afraid that LycraMan here has experience of this  :-[)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: eck on December 19, 2011, 06:47:10 pm
the minimum distance between controls rule.

where can I find these rules please?
Mr j, sir, the only reference I can see is in the Guidelines (nb, not the Rules) bit of the handbook:
http://www.aukweb.net/handbook/handbook.pdf (http://www.aukweb.net/handbook/handbook.pdf)
Guideline 5, P57:
Quote
AUK events require controls placed at an average of 50-80km intervals, to ensure adequate rest and refreshment and the integrity of the total distance.
A bit flexible then... :thumbsup:

I think, but CBA looking, that there is something somewhere that says for events up to (guessing) 200km, they should be an average of 50km, and over that, an average of 80km. But I may be wrong, again.  ;D

FWIW, I think our events are fairly typical: the Snow Roads 300 has four intermediate controls (not counting an info): the average distance between them is about 67km, the longest leg is just over 80km. And the Potter for Tea 100 has two proper controls, at an average of 33km, the longest leg is 41km.

ETA: Mrs eck says to tell you that there are no Rules limiting the number of bridies that may be consumed.  :-*
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on December 19, 2011, 07:23:15 pm
Thanks for the clarification phil d.

Thanks for the info eck :thumbsup:
& the infinite bridies policy is a joy exceeded only by spending 24hrs in the company of Mrs eck while you thrashed about on a bike. ;)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on December 19, 2011, 07:23:29 pm
the minimum distance between controls rule

Isn't it marvellous to see how even the simplest phrase can be interpreted more than one way. ;D

(And people wonder why the wording of regs produces such lengthy debate ... )
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on December 20, 2011, 06:58:07 pm
I am merely referring to the fact that the minimum distance between start and finish, passing through all control points, must be not less than the nominal distance (200k or whatever).  The actual routesheet might take you on a longer route to avoid main roads, etc.  This is pretty much the first check (maybe the only check) that the DIY organiser will do when you lodge your entry.  The method of measuring this minimum distance has been discussed on these boards many times, but depending on the organiser is usually done on Autoroute (using "shortest") or GoogleMaps (using "walking", though beware that this will often route you down a bridleway that you wouldn't venture along on a road bike.  I'm afraid that LycraMan here has experience of this  :-[)

I've just been through this for a new perm in Wales - the Perms organiser is open to discussion on GoogleMaps walking routes that take you along bridlepaths (in my case as I know the ground - one with a 33% gradient sideways camber that would make most mountain-bikers gibber).  With perms there is always likely to be a few cases where the most obvious route (and the one that most people would take) is not the shortest.  This means that the typical rider will end up doing some over-distance.  For example Llandrindod Wells - Clun - Newtown - Llandrindod Wells by the obvious main roads is 120km but if you look very carefully you can trim about 6km of each of the legs reducing it to 102km - but probably taking longer due to dodgy lanes and precipitous gradients.

As for distances between controls - the Perms organiser has not blanched at a 10.1km stage on the new perm - which allows the route to get over the magic distance and include the purely gratuitous ascent of the classic Tumble climb  :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Peter on December 20, 2011, 09:05:05 pm
I'm hoping to do an ECE to a 100k event, which will mean out and back legs of 55k to and from the calendar event.  These legs are within the recommended cntrol distances for audax.  So, to me, this means a receipt at home for the start of the first leg then either a signature in the ECE box by the Calendar organiser (or a receipt from that location)  and the same in reverse for the return.  Am I right about this (I'm not clear from Martin's otherwise excellent article on ECEs)?  The reason I ask is that it would be theoretically possible to get a receipt at home, drive to the event, park round the corner, etc.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wobbly on December 20, 2011, 09:51:02 pm
Forgive me for being pedantic, but how does one get a receipt "at home"? Unless you live in a shop of some sort.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on December 20, 2011, 10:35:01 pm
It would be theoretically possible to drive round the route spending most of the day hanging out in cafe's. At the end of the day we're all on an 'honour' system. If you want to cheat then go ahead though it seems pretty pointless (sic).

I think we're all clear that unless you are on a GPS ride that 'home' is in fact your local shop/garage/atm unless you really do live out in the sticks, in which case it will be a good idea to look at coming to some alternate arrangement with your local DIY Org. Where there's a will there's a way.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on December 20, 2011, 10:42:09 pm
Forgive me for being pedantic, but how does one get a receipt "at home"? Unless you live in a shop of some sort.

Mrs CET has been known to act as a controller.  Although there is an ATM 0.4km away.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Peter on December 20, 2011, 11:17:30 pm
Sorry, I didn't expect that you would take me literally about "home".  I've done several DIYs and I use an ATM in the village.  I also don't intend to cheat and I know we depend on honesty!   What I wanted to know was, have I got it right that, for a 50k leg, I just need a receipt at the start and then either something from  the organiser of the Calendar event when I arrive or a receipt from there?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on December 21, 2011, 12:15:26 am
If you are using a ECE Brevet Card then a receipt from the start/finish and have the Calendar event org sign/stamp your card at the event start/finish should do it (assuming it is >50km shortest distance from home to the Arrivee, i.e., no intermediate controls).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Peter on December 21, 2011, 01:00:17 am
OK, thanks, Manotea.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Euan Uzami on December 21, 2011, 07:35:03 pm
Just another few quick questions about DIY/perms (sorry if these have been asked before or are obvious/stupid numpty questions, but I have not really done any DIYs/perms before but this year I am going to take an 'if you can't beat em join em' attitude):

* If I enter a perm/DIY, I get a brevet card back through the post, which all being well, I then use on the day I have nominated. However if say the weather is really bad or for some reason I can't/don't ride it on that nominated day, can I keep the brevet card to ride that same perm/DIY but on a future date?
I presume I have to notify the organiser in advance when I am planning on rescheduling the ride, to prevent me just taking off when the fancy takes me or when it looks nice out, so how much notice do I have to give?

* Also, if I get a brevet card back when I have submitted a DIY, I presume the return of a brevet card means that the route has been validated by the organiser (in terms of having  fulfilled the min. distance between controls etc. to their satisfaction)?

* How much notice is it generally deemed acceptable to give for the DIY organiser to do such route validation? - and presumably they don't need to re-validate if I re-enter a DIY that i've done before?
* I've read/heard of some people building up "stashes" of perm/DIY cards, or "ordering a batch" of them at once, what's the value in doing this if any?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Martin on December 21, 2011, 07:53:49 pm
1 If I enter a perm/DIY, I get a brevet card back through the post, which all being well, I then use on the day I have nominated. However if say the weather is really bad or for some reason I can't/don't ride it on that nominated day, can I keep the brevet card to ride that same perm/DIY but on a future date?
I presume I have to notify the organiser in advance when I am planning on rescheduling the ride, to prevent me just taking off when the fancy takes me or when it looks nice out, so how much notice do I have to give?

2 Also, if I get a brevet card back when I have submitted a DIY, I presume the return of a brevet card means that the route has been validated by the organiser (in terms of having  fulfilled the min. distance between controls etc. to their satisfaction)?

3 How much notice is it generally deemed acceptable to give for the DIY organiser to do such route validation? - and presumably they don't need to re-validate if I re-enter a DIY that i've done before?
4 I've read/heard of some people building up "stashes" of perm/DIY cards, or "ordering a batch" of them at once, what's the value in doing this if any?

Ben; to answer your questions in a DIY context;

1. If you've sent in an entry and don't let the organiser know you are not riding on the day the DIY cards is spent (whether paper or virtual) so it's always best to pre-check the route for distance and enter as you are about to roll out or the night before

2. Yes if you sent a DIY entry with your cheque

3. Ideally 14 days; depends on the organiser if less

4. A very good idea as they are a. cheaper that way b. you can submit an online entry just before you ride as you already have the card

HTH
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Charlie Boy on December 21, 2011, 07:57:32 pm
Hi Ben

As I understand it:

With a DIY the organiser will not check the route when you ride, only after (although some will before if you ask nicely). So it's up to you to make sure the route complies.

When you buy the card online you will give a date you intend to ride. If you want to change it you just tell the organiser before you set off. This can be 5 minutes before, as long as you do.

With a perm you buy the card and tell the organiser when you intend to go. Again, you can change the date and many will let you use one of the intermediate controls as your start and finish if it's nearer to home for you (or, if you live on the route, add an extra control at home). Not all will though, so best to ask.

Most DIY organisers will sell you cards in batches of 5 so you only have to apply once then ride when you can the sun is shining.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Martin on December 21, 2011, 08:02:55 pm
CB; a DIY org (I am one) will always check a route for distance before the ride if requested; if it's at very short notice the onus is on the rider; but google maps set to walking will always be accepted as minimum distance if unsure
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Charlie Boy on December 21, 2011, 08:08:09 pm
Sorry Martin, didn't see your reply before I posted mine!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Euan Uzami on December 21, 2011, 08:35:25 pm

Ben; to answer your questions in a DIY context;

1. If you've sent in an entry and don't let the organiser know you are not riding on the day the DIY cards is spent (whether paper or virtual) so it's always best to pre-check the route for distance and enter as you are about to roll out or the night before

Right, so let me just get this straight so I understand you correctly:
Am I right in thinking I am perfectly legitimate in doing the following:
* Buy one/a batch of DIY cards from DIY organiser
* Submit a route and say I am going to ride it on, say, 15th Jan
* On 14th jan, send an email to the organiser saying I am not going to ride it (so the card is "unspent")
* Wait till the weather looks nice, say it looks nice on 21st jan : so I send the organiser an email saying "I am now off out to do this DIY that I was going to do on 15th jan but didn't", and then 5 minutes later set off out and ride it
* return home with all receipts and send them in with the "unspent" card for validation

Sorry to be pedantic/hypothetical but it seems from what you are saying that it effectively allows me to NOT nominate my date in advance. Which I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that you had to do. This would suggest  DIYs require one to be less audacious in terms of being at the mercy of future weather conditions, which thus frees up more audacity to enable you to be more audacious in terms of a longer/harder route at a more unseasonable time of year. (I'm not complaining - I think it's good if it is like that - I just want to clarify...and to check it isn't "technically allowed but a loophole that's frowned upon")
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Martin on December 21, 2011, 08:39:23 pm
Ben; yes everything you have there is correct; you can either choose to enter the event in advance or just before you ride; once you have entered and not revoked / amended the entry the card is spent
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Euan Uzami on December 21, 2011, 08:44:38 pm
Oh right, thanks Martin.
I'll get some cards then I think.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on December 24, 2011, 11:41:45 pm
Oh right, thanks Martin.
I'll get some cards then I think.

Hi Ben

Remember that you can also do these by GPS if you like (if I remember, you have a Garmin Etrex???)

The advantages are:-

a) you don't have to post anything - nothing to get lost in the post

b) you can enter the night before having seen the weather forecasts (n.b. that is still NO guarantee...)

c) no need to stop and get receipts

d) no need to post card and receipts back (nothing to get lost in the post again)

e) you can put your controls anywhere, e.g. start actually at home, and finish actually at home - N.B. you can also 'turn' at a junction or roundabout in the middle of nowhere, as long as you quote the ordnance survey grid reference (many free programs will give you this) - often this helps me to get the distance just right, else I would have to go to the nearest shop, ATM, pub etc which might be miles away...

f) you can buy 6 electronic brevets at a good discount
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Euan Uzami on December 26, 2011, 03:33:28 pm
Oh right, thanks Martin.
I'll get some cards then I think.

Hi Ben

Remember that you can also do these by GPS if you like (if I remember, you have a Garmin Etrex???)

The advantages are:-

a) you don't have to post anything - nothing to get lost in the post

b) you can enter the night before having seen the weather forecasts (n.b. that is still NO guarantee...)

c) no need to stop and get receipts

d) no need to post card and receipts back (nothing to get lost in the post again)

e) you can put your controls anywhere, e.g. start actually at home, and finish actually at home - N.B. you can also 'turn' at a junction or roundabout in the middle of nowhere, as long as you quote the ordnance survey grid reference (many free programs will give you this) - often this helps me to get the distance just right, else I would have to go to the nearest shop, ATM, pub etc which might be miles away...

f) you can buy 6 electronic brevets at a good discount

re. b), as far as I understand it, I can still enter the night before anyway, can't I?
As long as the route's sufficiently overdistance for me to be sure that it will be validated (and/or if I've previously had it validated for an earlier date but postponed it?)

You're right Mike I have got an etrex but I don't intend to use it for diy by gps.
Regarding the subject of diy by gps in general, basically, I am going by the rule of "if you haven't got anything positive to say, don't say anything at all", and I haven't got anything positive to say so I'm not saying anything at all.  O:-)

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on December 26, 2011, 06:27:47 pm

re. b), as far as I understand it, I can still enter the night before anyway, can't I?
As long as the route's sufficiently overdistance for me to be sure that it will be validated (and/or if I've previously had it validated for an earlier date but postponed it?)

Correct. I'm not aware of any difference here with GPS validation.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Martin on December 26, 2011, 06:35:52 pm

re. b), as far as I understand it, I can still enter the night before anyway, can't I?
As long as the route's sufficiently overdistance for me to be sure that it will be validated (and/or if I've previously had it validated for an earlier date but postponed it?)

Correct. I'm not aware of any difference here with GPS validation.

yes correct; although the entry form may well arrive after the completed DIY card knowing the post; so it's always best online  :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Peter on December 27, 2011, 02:12:25 pm
I know about ECE events.

1. Is it possible to extend a permanent in the same way?

2. If so, is it possible to retain AAA points from the parmanent or does the extra distance mean the climbing is "invalidated"?

3. If the answer to 1 is "no", could the permanent be included in a DIY (with permission of the perm organiser) and what would happen to AAA points in such a case?

4. Which cards would be required?

Additional marks will be given for spelling.  Your time starts......NOW!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wobbly on December 27, 2011, 02:27:04 pm
Oh right, thanks Martin.
I'll get some cards then I think.

Hi Ben

Remember that you can also do these by GPS if you like (if I remember, you have a Garmin Etrex???)

The advantages are:-

a) you don't have to post anything - nothing to get lost in the post

b) you can enter the night before having seen the weather forecasts (n.b. that is still NO guarantee...)

c) no need to stop and get receipts

d) no need to post card and receipts back (nothing to get lost in the post again)

e) you can put your controls anywhere, e.g. start actually at home, and finish actually at home - N.B. you can also 'turn' at a junction or roundabout in the middle of nowhere, as long as you quote the ordnance survey grid reference (many free programs will give you this) - often this helps me to get the distance just right, else I would have to go to the nearest shop, ATM, pub etc which might be miles away...

f) you can buy 6 electronic brevets at a good discount

A few disadvantages to even things up.

1. Batteries. If your GPS uses them then they will add cost to the ride, either by recharging them or replacing them.

2. If the GPS batteries go flat you're stuffed.

3. If the GPS malfunctions (mine has once this year) then you're stuffed.

4. If you have a senior moment when transferring the GPS track log to your computer and accidentally delete it then you're stuffed.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Kim on December 27, 2011, 02:37:49 pm
1. Batteries. If your GPS uses them then they will add cost to the ride, either by recharging them or replacing them.

Sorry, I don't agree with this one.  In all but exceptional circumstances a typical GPS user will be using rechargeable batteries of one sort or another.  The cost of a couple of charge cycles will be a tiny fraction of the cumulative cost of random stuff you'd typically buy in order to obtain receipts.  The initial outlay for the GPS unit and batteries can be disregarded in the same way that the cost of the bike can.

As for malfunctions, in my extensive experience of GPS and limited experience of Audax, GPS receivers and their batteries are more reliable than commercial controls.  Similarly, senior moments are more of a hazard while faffing about with the contents of your bike bag while tired, than when downloading tracks to your computer in the warm and dry after having had something to eat.

Plus if you're serious about it, there's no reason you can't carry a second GPS receiver as a backup.  One of those basic data logger ones would be ideal.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: RichForrest on December 27, 2011, 02:59:48 pm
Receipts or other proof of passage can be used if your gps does pack up en-route.
This has happened to a couple of riders this year, as long as you can prove you've been somewhere that's fine.

Rich
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on December 27, 2011, 05:15:03 pm
Sorry to be pedantic/hypothetical but it seems from what you are saying that it effectively allows me to NOT nominate my date in advance. Which I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that you had to do. This would suggest  DIYs require one to be less audacious in terms of being at the mercy of future weather conditions, which thus frees up more audacity to enable you to be more audacious in terms of a longer/harder route at a more unseasonable time of year. (I'm not complaining - I think it's good if it is like that - I just want to clarify...and to check it isn't "technically allowed but a loophole that's frowned upon")

IMHO -
since the question was asked in a pedantic spirit, I would suggest the pedantic answer is "technically it's not allowed* but is a loophole that is not frowned upon".  No-one is going to pull you up on it (unless a specific Perm Organiser specifically warns you otherwise - and I don't know of any that would do that, these days).  Most seem to encourage the more flexible approach for 'more bums on saddles' reasons.  (Oh and I'm not complaining either.)

* pretty much for the reasons you describe above.  It goes against the unwritten rule that you set an objective, then go out and do it - but even written rules get discussed for ever, so I suppose an unwritten one is fair game to be ignored.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on December 27, 2011, 05:15:47 pm
Oh right, thanks Martin.
I'll get some cards then I think.

Hi Ben

Remember that you can also do these by GPS if you like (if I remember, you have a Garmin Etrex???)

The advantages are:-

a) you don't have to post anything - nothing to get lost in the post

b) you can enter the night before having seen the weather forecasts (n.b. that is still NO guarantee...)

c) no need to stop and get receipts

d) no need to post card and receipts back (nothing to get lost in the post again)

e) you can put your controls anywhere, e.g. start actually at home, and finish actually at home - N.B. you can also 'turn' at a junction or roundabout in the middle of nowhere, as long as you quote the ordnance survey grid reference (many free programs will give you this) - often this helps me to get the distance just right, else I would have to go to the nearest shop, ATM, pub etc which might be miles away...

f) you can buy 6 electronic brevets at a good discount

A few disadvantages to even things up.

1. Batteries. If your GPS uses them then they will add cost to the ride, either by recharging them or replacing them.

2. If the GPS batteries go flat you're stuffed.

3. If the GPS malfunctions (mine has once this year) then you're stuffed.

4. If you have a senior moment when transferring the GPS track log to your computer and accidentally delete it then you're stuffed.

I didn't mean to start a battle between gps and non GPS - certainly I have done both and both work just fine - I just wanted peeps to get the 'whole' story, so they could make the choice that suited them. 

Personally I hate faffing about for receipts which can easily be lost or get blown away - I have been seen trying to chase a receipt across a petrol station before now...  Then there was the ten minutes spent queueing for an ATM only to get told by the machine that 'receipts are not available - do you want to proceed anyway?'

That said, on many of my GPS rides I tend to place the controls at cafes, where I stop anyway, so I get a receipt as well....  which means that I would be covered if the unit failed - though it has gone just fine for more than 4 years (touch wood  :-X)  If it does ever fail, then I would get receipts for the rest of the ride...

I use a rechargable tecknet 5000 m/amp/hour battery that runs for 30+ hours on top of the Garmins own battery - it probably costs about as much to recharge as the cost of the electricity I am using to type this.....
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wobbly on December 27, 2011, 05:57:55 pm
I posted the GPS disadvantages list to see who would bite and... Kim did. Hah! One nil to me  ;D

Over the years I've done rather a lot of Perms (listed, mesh, DIY and GPS) so I think I'm allowed to have an opinion on this. And I know which I prefer.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Kim on December 27, 2011, 06:04:15 pm
Ah well, if we're playing that game then I like riding my bike on my own terms, which doesn't mean stopping and queueing/faffing about/eating/failing to find anything I can eat/doing a quiz when I'd rather keep moving, and vice-versa.  One nil to GPS[1] :P


[1] Or perhaps an own goal to Audax, I haven't really decided yet.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on December 27, 2011, 06:07:08 pm
I posted [...] to see who would bite and... Kim did. Hah! One nil to me  ;D

Quick thinking sir!

I'll have to use that next time I post utter rubbish and Kim corrects me.

;)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wobbly on December 27, 2011, 06:14:42 pm
Quick thinking sir!

I'll have to use that next time I post utter rubbish and Kim corrects me.

;)

The word "utter" was a tad harsh, if you don't mind me saying.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on December 29, 2011, 03:17:30 pm
Quick thinking sir!

I'll have to use that next time I post utter rubbish and Kim corrects me.

;)

The word "utter" was a tad harsh, if you don't mind me saying.

 ;D ;D possibly a mistype for 'nutter'  ;D ;D
Title: Time allowed for a 100k ride
Post by: Revellinho on December 30, 2011, 02:14:00 pm
I set out a DIY and did an online entry of the route with a start/finish and 3 intermediate 'controls' giving a shortest route of just over 100k.  I was intending to use the route to get AAA points, but to rack up the altitude it needs about 120k of riding.  When I email my file after the ride how do things work with the time allowed?  100k divided by 15kph gives a time allowed of 6hrs 40min but for 120k it would be over 8 hours.  I would have to average of about 18kph to ride the 120k in 100k time and due the hills, I am not sure I could manage it, especially in this cold, wet and windy weather.  I have had a look through the FAQs but can't seem to find how the time allowed is calculated.  If it is calculated on the shortest distance it seems a bit of a disincentive to keep the number of controls manageable.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Peter on December 30, 2011, 02:25:56 pm
Paul, as far as I know, if your distance on your entry was 100k, then you will only get th 6.40 to do the ride, even if it is actually 120k.  You can only get AAA points on a DIY if you do it by gps.  I've had to forego seven or eight AAA points on DIYs this summer because I use paper!
Title: Re: Time allowed for a 100k ride
Post by: mattc on December 30, 2011, 02:41:11 pm
If it is calculated on the shortest distance it seems a bit of a disincentive to keep the number of controls manageable.
You're aboslutely right, but this is an inherent feature of the Audax "shortest distance between controls" system. We're all stuck with it!

(The DIY guide says something like:
"Some nice routes just aren't suitable for use as an Audax - just ride them and enjoy yourself!" )
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fuaran on December 30, 2011, 02:51:47 pm
For a 100km audax, it is a Brevet Populaire, so you should be allowed a lower minimum speed. You should agree the minimum speed with the DIY organiser before riding it.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Revellinho on December 30, 2011, 03:50:00 pm
Paul, as far as I know, if your distance on your entry was 100k, then you will only get th 6.40 to do the ride, even if it is actually 120k.  You can only get AAA points on a DIY if you do it by gps.  I've had to forego seven or eight AAA points on DIYs this summer because I use paper!

thanks Peter - I prefer paper myself, but Father Christmas went on ebay and got me a little GPS to help me with the AAArty - it is actually going to work out cheaper than driving to perms - although I do have a couple of cards for rides out of Settle to keep me going.  Anyway I will trim my 'route as ridden' on Monday and avoid going up the Kirkstone, Red Bank and Blea Tarn so that I can try to get round in time but still leaving enough height to qualify.  Just hope it doesn't freeze to low down as I am not doing the Wrynose and Hardknott if there is a chance of ice on them.

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: RichForrest on December 30, 2011, 06:22:18 pm
I asked the Q? to John ward as he is the Perm Org'. His reply is


"As it stands at the moment all DIYs are 14.3 minimum speed.
The point being that they are a universal standard event, so there is no option to have a BP version with slower times (unless we agree and set a standard different BP minimum time).
So for the moment don't go for a hilly 100km DIY unless you can get round in 14.3km"


Rich
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on December 30, 2011, 06:34:26 pm
I asked the Q? to John ward as he is the Perm Org'. His reply is


"As it stands at the moment all DIYs are 14.3 minimum speed.
The point being that they are a universal standard event, so there is no option to have a BP version with slower times (unless we agree and set a standard different BP minimum time).
So for the moment don't go for a hilly 100km DIY unless you can get round in 14.3km"


Rich

And watch out if the "on the road " distance is significantly greater than nominal. Not so much a problem if you are on a GPS DIY but still something to mind when planning the route/controls, as you may not have as much time as you think you have. I very nearly got caught out riding u.n.dulates 120km grimpeur as a DIY last year, for which the calendar had a minimum speed of 12.5kmph.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Revellinho on December 30, 2011, 09:05:05 pm
thanks Rich and all others who replied, I think that I am clear now.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ashaman42 on December 31, 2011, 10:16:33 pm
Not really worth a thread of it's own but I've been perusing the calandar and there seem to be rather fewer Hailsham/El supremo events, does anyone know if he's got more events to submit or has he just moved his events to new pastures?

Was hoping to do more events this coming year so I might be stuck doing GPS diys  :'( Not sure how I'll come without the oven.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mmmmartin on January 01, 2012, 11:59:50 am
he is doing 27 events on 13 dates in 2012, starting on jan 29 for £1 from newlands corner near guildford.  and you are right he is moving to other starting points. only four events are from hailsham this year. other starting points are pease pottage, near the motorway services just south of crawley, polegate, just south of hailsham, billingshurst, midhurst, whitchurch. about half are your "normal" 100k events, the rest are either longer or hillier.
I suspect numbers from Hsilsham were dropping off a bit because most of us in that area had done most of the rides.
Why not drop him a note and ask for his Yellow Page of planned events for this year?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ashaman42 on January 01, 2012, 12:14:42 pm
Hmm, well I'll do the Hailsham and Polegate rides. And I guess I'll have to ponder over the Guildford/Billingshurst ones.

I think 40/45 miles is a bit far for me to cycle to and from the start and if my condition is anything like after my first 300k I won't be fit to drive either (I guess that'll be incentive to sort out my bike fit and fitness) as I could barely move.

I guess for a couple I could B&B/camp, can't afford to do that for loads of rides but one or two should be doable.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mmmmartin on January 01, 2012, 10:37:07 pm
have a think about extending a calendar event, called ECE, it seems pretty simple to fix, apart from the riding, but it means a 100k that is hard to get to on a Sunday morning becomes a 200k with an early start and a bit of a train ride afterwards.
martin malins is your man, the audax website has helpful info. but guildford is a long way from you I think. I think camping is one way forward as one could ride there and camp, then kip in the tent afterwards, but there is no campsite near the Pease Pottage start and Gatwick B&B prices are a bit high......
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: RichForrest on January 04, 2012, 05:10:36 pm
I asked the Q? to John ward as he is the Perm Org'. His reply is


"As it stands at the moment all DIYs are 14.3 minimum speed.
The point being that they are a universal standard event, so there is no option to have a BP version with slower times (unless we agree and set a standard different BP minimum time).
So for the moment don't go for a hilly 100km DIY unless you can get round in 14.3km"


Rich

After discussion John has set the BP rides at a minimum of 10kph, so if you do decide to do a hilly ride of 50/100/150km you now have more time to do it in.

Rich
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Revellinho on January 04, 2012, 07:16:13 pm
Just to be 100% crystal clear on that, if I set out a DIY-by-gps course with 3 or 4 'controls' that is 145k riding, 120k shortest distance, I get 10 hours max, as it is a 100k validated ride (and it is 100k/10kph)?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wobbly on January 06, 2012, 05:51:33 pm
No, you should get 12 hours (120km / 10kph)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on January 06, 2012, 06:27:34 pm
An apparently simple change with some big implications.

Time limit for hilly 199km BP, 19hrs, 54min.

Time limit for hilly 200km BR, 13hrs, 55 min.

If nothing it else it certainly nails the distinction between BP & BR events.

To what extent has this been discussed/agreed with the committee and other interested parties such as the AAA/FWC orgs?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Revellinho on January 06, 2012, 07:42:40 pm
I don't think anyone is going to get unfair advantage from such a generous time allowance, but there is a big positive:  It allows DIYs to be set out with a limited number of controls (sensible admin workload), but ridden well over-distance to get lots of hills/nicest route in and without having to race round like mad.  Having said that, I had got it it wrong about the time being based on minimum distance rather than simply 100k, 150k etc.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on January 06, 2012, 07:47:17 pm
An apparently simple change with some big implications.

Time limit for hilly 199km BP, 19hrs, 54min.

Time limit for hilly 200km BR, 13hrs, 55 min.
...
If one is only after AAA points, can one choose to enter a 200km BP?!?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Somnolent on January 13, 2012, 08:04:43 pm
DIY (by GPS) question (sort of)
Is it OK to construct a route made up of three loops all starting and finishing at the same point (i.e. home) ?
Reason I ask is that to keep our husband & wife RRTY on track in February it looks as though a DIY in half term week maybe the only option.
Whilst the kids are (usually) well enough behaved (and in theory old enough) to be left on their own for around 12 hours it would be preferable to check on them occasionally.
Does the availability of home comforts at two intermediate points in a 200 run counter to the spirit of self-sufficiency ?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: RichForrest on January 13, 2012, 08:15:11 pm
You can't do the same loop more than once but as long as the route doesn't have too many controls there shouldn't be a problem with it.
Using it twice as a middle control would make a 7 controls. Which is effectively out and back for the 3 loops.

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Somnolent on January 13, 2012, 08:37:17 pm
You can't do the same loop more than once but as long as the route doesn't have too many controls there shouldn't be a problem with it.
Using it twice as a middle control would make a 7 controls. Which is effectively out and back for the 3 loops.

Thanks for that.
Yes it would be three separate loops, but my first attempt at planning runs to 13 controls (including start/finish) I do recall reading a thread which complained about 20 controls on a 200 being way OTT, and I dont want to piss my local organiser off  :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on January 13, 2012, 09:43:34 pm
I just did an entry for a 600 DIYxGPS for tomorrow & Sunday, with 19 controls including the finish.

1 was 52 kms, 6 were mid 40s, 3 mid 30s, 4 in their 20s with 4 shorter ones to keep it on the track I intend to ride around Bristol, else it would go way over distance.

Googlemapswalking drills right through the worst of Bristol, sometimes using footpaths not bikeable, and major roads which are just not safe, whereas I take the safer, quieter, much longer route around... and I want the controls to mimic the route I will ride, else it would be daft.  I put them on the extreme corners of the route I ride around, of course.

I do keep playing around trying to reduce control numbers, but have you noticed recently that googlemapswalking has become more footpath oriented around large towns??   I keep the short ref links to past routes, which are now coming up shorter than before, and go a different way than they used to.... which again mitigates towards either shorter control distances, or more overdistance rides...

Thank goodness we have good orgs out there...  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Euan Uzami on January 14, 2012, 02:52:28 pm
...have you noticed recently that googlemapswalking has become more footpath oriented around large towns??  ...
reason being Mike is that google has switched its data supplier and presumably the new data has got much more data on what footpaths are available.





OK,  serious question - if a diy route includes a ferry, am I right in assuming that (a) the distance the ferry travels doesn't count (i.e. it's assumed one dock is the 'same place' as the other for distance calculation), (b) the time DOES count, and (c) that given (a), it doesn't matter how long the ferry journey is?
I know some existing calendar/perm audaxes include ferry trips but they are usually intra-britain and fairly short. But what if i wanted to route a diy across the channel? I know there are a lot of cases where it wouldn't be practical due to the time spent not cycling but some of the cross channel routes are only a couple of hours, or available as overnight services, which you would want to sleep anyway.

oh and Rich, I don't suppose you managed to find out about my question about the 200km a day  slowest randonneur speed for distances >= 2,499km? (which was do all days have to be >=200km, or is it just average)
Am I safe in presuming it's "average" - as if it were the former, then I might as well just submit each day as a separate DIY?
If so, do I always have to be "in credit" so to speak?

I'm planning my summer tour carefully to try to maximise my points-per-days-of-annual-leave-used-up but at the same time keep it as tour-like as possible ;)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Euan Uzami on January 14, 2012, 06:07:57 pm
hmm. I think i've answered my own question. I think I am going to just make them all at least 200km then I can just submit them all as separate ones, and then I don't need to have 13 days at it in one go.
I suppose in that sense, the minimum speed for multi-day rides, although it drops as the distance increases, it doesn't drop enough to make them attractive enough. The only way a really long single brevet would be good value is if you were to do it within the 10kph band and do 240km per day for 9 days - but all the extra 40s are only giving you an extra 300 in total, and that's not worth the disadvantage of putting all your eggs in one basket so to speak.

I presume there's nothing to stop me doing a series of 200km DIYs, all linear, on consecutive days? (Some of them abroad?)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wobbly on January 16, 2012, 10:25:50 am
...have you noticed recently that googlemapswalking has become more footpath oriented around large towns??  ...
reason being Mike is that google has switched its data supplier and presumably the new data has got much more data on what footpaths are available.

That explains a lot. My last DIY by GPS ride had a few pedestrian-only sections courtesy of Google...
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: arabella on January 17, 2012, 09:50:55 am
On a recent DIY google suggested I go through the middle of a firing range.  I found an alternative route around the edge, also off-road.

via Michelin bike option may be better, but I haven't yet got to grips with it.

thought:  if google walking has become more footpath-y is is less good as the AUK default 'shortest distance'-o-meter?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Euan Uzami on January 17, 2012, 10:01:00 am
On a recent DIY google suggested I go through the middle of a firing range.  I found an alternative route around the edge, also off-road.

via Michelin bike option may be better, but I haven't yet got to grips with it.

thought:  if google walking has become more footpath-y is is less good as the AUK default 'shortest distance'-o-meter?

imho, yes.
It's actually quite frustrating as well that in britain, MapPoint seems pretty good at choosing the shortest on road distance, but in france, MapPoint routes down some things that are clearly non-roads (i.e. unsurfaced dirt tracks , sheep paths etc - you can tell by streetview)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Martin on January 17, 2012, 10:13:03 am
I'm getting very frustrated with Google Maps; it's always way under the actual distance ridden; even when you use the exact route that you record on the GPS. I wonder if it just straightens out all the bends? Having said that AR and VM bike are no better. My AR has fallen over so I don't offer it any more
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wobbly on January 18, 2012, 10:33:11 am
GPS will always over-record distance.

Leave a GPS unit alone and it will happily clock up a few km due to variations in GPS location which the unit percieves as movement. It continues to do that during a ride of course. Thereby recording a zig-zag when you are actually riding in a straight line.

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on January 18, 2012, 11:20:15 am
Yup.

The P stands for positioning - not distance measuring.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on January 18, 2012, 01:14:45 pm
Also, though this is possibly of less significance for us home counties types, maps are two dimensional; roads are three dimensional.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on January 18, 2012, 11:29:57 pm
Also, though this is possibly of less significance for us home counties types, maps are two dimensional; roads are three dimensional.

and Audax is 4 dimensional....  ;)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on January 21, 2012, 09:45:19 pm
I've found the Google Maps routes to be within 1% of the distance on both my cycle computers and usually better than that. 

I do check the result against Ordnance Survey maps as there are a few places where it will send you down footpath, cart track, etc, etc.  However, these are outweighed by the number of times it has shown me something I would have guessed otherwise just from reading maps. 

What I do like above other free map software is the ease by which I can adjust the route to model a route.  It means that I'm much less often late back which means less brownie points required from Mrs CET.

But then I don't own a GPS.   :smug:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feline on January 22, 2012, 12:03:41 am
Also, though this is possibly of less significance for us home counties types, maps are two dimensional; roads are three dimensional.

and Audax is 4 dimensional....  ;)

I think I might have discovered a 5th too on PBP!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: harvee on February 02, 2012, 07:36:21 pm
What is the situation with doing a permanent but amending it? Does this count as a diy or would this be regarded as plagarism so to speak?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: phil d on February 03, 2012, 09:13:20 am
What is the situation with doing a permanent but amending it? Does this count as a diy or would this be regarded as plagarism so to speak?
There should be no problem using it as a DIY, but my view is that you should contact the relevant perm organiser as a curtesy.  It is possible (depending on how much you seek to amend it) that it could still be done as the "official" perm.  For instance, Mark Beauchamp was quite happy for his Anorak's Delight to be started in Reading (it doesn't go that close to Reading, but it was a convenient start point) and he kindly (but, as it turned out, unnecessarily) offered that we could miss one of the infos due to the route now being a bit longer.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Euan Uzami on February 03, 2012, 09:24:00 am
What is the situation with doing a permanent but amending it? Does this count as a diy or would this be regarded as plagarism so to speak?
might depend on organiser but ime you can move the start back or forward along the route, including to a location that's not already an existing control
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on February 06, 2012, 09:11:00 pm
What is the situation with doing a permanent but amending it? Does this count as a diy or would this be regarded as plagarism so to speak?
might depend on organiser but ime you can move the start back or forward along the route, including to a location that's not already an existing control

I tried that on Shawn re the Wessex SR, hoping to start one of the perms where the route more or less passes my house (within 9 KM anyway) (Brizzle) rather than riding 30+ kms to Malmesbury, (one of the controls) but as was his right he said "nope"

He also said something along the lines of "no good for Wessex SR starting up there cos it is not the same ride as everyone else does" - again I initially thought he was being daft, however I can with hindsight see his point and if I was based down there, so to speak, I might feel aggrieved if someone from up here got a WSR riding from the 'other side' as it were....

Of course 600 km of new territory, done completely alone, where the controls in certain places might be shut, was probably far too easy, so I may instead do the group perm with everyone else, with the moral support of the other riders, the ability to slipstream, get mechanical help, have someone who already knows the route, and the best controls, so it will obviously be a much harder ride as a result..... Luckily I will also need to ride down to and back from the Poole (ish) start as two extra 200 km rides (DIYxGPS), so it will be a nice 1000 km outing...     ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Peter on February 06, 2012, 09:21:51 pm
^^^

Odd, that. Certainly some organisers allow you to start anywhere, as long as it's on the route.  In fact, it's an inconvenience to the rider, if anyone, because you have to get more proofs of passage than otherwise.  Unless, of course, the problem is that the organise can't work out the logistics of the receipts and so on; I can't believe that would be the case.

I'm surprised: do organisers want people to do their rides, or not?  It certainly would reduce reliance on cars and riding when too tired because of having to get up earlier than is strictly necessary.  Or is there something in the integrity of the route, e.g. it's atradition that you do this hill at the end, when you are absolutley cream-crackered rather than get it out of the way at the beginning and be whacked for the rest of the ride?  That doesn't make a lot of sense, I think.

Maybe there really is some ethical or other reason to refuse a different start and I'd be happy to be told so!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: eck on February 06, 2012, 09:41:51 pm
As a DiY organiser, and an organiser of one "proper" perm (the Snow Roads), my view would be that, if someone wants to do the Snow Roads perm, they do the route ie they visit all the controls - starting and finishing anywhere they like, as long as it's one of the controls, or somewhere in between controls where they can get PoP. That has happened a few times - no problem for me. I'd also be happy for someone to do it in the opposite direction.

If they want to base their ride on what is substantially my perm ride, but with knobs on, then it's a DIY. That too has happened and been agreed to.

So, in bikey-mikey's case, I wouldn't have a problem with him starting and finishing on the route at the nearest point to where he lives.(provided he could get a control), I wouldn't require him to add another 30km each way just to start at one of the recognised controls. But there may, of course, be additional factors about the Wessex SR that I don't know about.

OTOH, I have been asked to let a rider to join in a caledar event about 60km from the proper start.  :facepalm:

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Euan Uzami on February 06, 2012, 10:40:48 pm
I tried that on Shawn re the Wessex SR, hoping to start one of the perms where the route more or less passes my house (within 9 KM anyway) (Brizzle) rather than riding 30+ kms to Malmesbury, (one of the controls) but as was his right he said "nope"

He also said something along the lines of "no good for Wessex SR starting up there cos it is not the same ride as everyone else does" - again I initially thought he was being daft, however I can with hindsight see his point and if I was based down there, so to speak, I might feel aggrieved if someone from up here got a WSR riding from the 'other side' as it were....

Of course 600 km of new territory, done completely alone, where the controls in certain places might be shut, was probably far too easy, so I may instead do the group perm with everyone else, with the moral support of the other riders, the ability to slipstream, get mechanical help, have someone who already knows the route, and the best controls, so it will obviously be a much harder ride as a result..... Luckily I will also need to ride down to and back from the Poole (ish) start as two extra 200 km rides (DIYxGPS), so it will be a nice 1000 km outing...     ;D ;D ;D

9km isn't considered "more or less" the same place.... certainly not when there's AAA points

you should have just rode the 9km to the nearest point on the route and started there...
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on February 06, 2012, 11:59:27 pm
I tried that on Shawn re the Wessex SR, hoping to start one of the perms where the route more or less passes my house (within 9 KM anyway) (Brizzle) rather than riding 30+ kms to Malmesbury, (one of the controls) but as was his right he said "nope"

He also said something along the lines of "no good for Wessex SR starting up there cos it is not the same ride as everyone else does" - again I initially thought he was being daft, however I can with hindsight see his point and if I was based down there, so to speak, I might feel aggrieved if someone from up here got a WSR riding from the 'other side' as it were....

Of course 600 km of new territory, done completely alone, where the controls in certain places might be shut, was probably far too easy, so I may instead do the group perm with everyone else, with the moral support of the other riders, the ability to slipstream, get mechanical help, have someone who already knows the route, and the best controls, so it will obviously be a much harder ride as a result..... Luckily I will also need to ride down to and back from the Poole (ish) start as two extra 200 km rides (DIYxGPS), so it will be a nice 1000 km outing...     ;D ;D ;D

9km isn't considered "more or less" the same place.... certainly not when there's AAA points

you should have just rode the 9km to the nearest point on the route and started there...

Yep Ben, that was what I originally proposed, so I would have joined at one of the intermediate (guide only) 'waypoints' named on the online routesheet, gone round the whole thing control by control, and ended up going through the same 'waypoint' a second time, and then on home, so doing around 18 km more, which I thought would do the trick, and not change the AAA at all...  but it was not acceptable....
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Euan Uzami on February 07, 2012, 08:43:54 am
but would you have had proof of passage at the "intermediate (guide only) waypoint"?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on February 07, 2012, 09:06:21 am
Maybe there really is some ethical or other reason to refuse a different start and I'd be happy to be told so!

Seems to me an organiser is entitled to reject any proposed alteration to 'his' event, end of.  Pointless to wonder why.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feanor on February 07, 2012, 09:12:25 am
Well, I can imagine a route with a big steep hill in it will be very different rides if the hill is close to the start, or 200k in.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Reg.T on February 07, 2012, 09:22:01 am
ISTR something about this being particularly relevant to AAA rides, where changing the start point shifts the whole route profile, and - in some cases - could result in there not being a 100km stretch with a qualifying amount of climbing, or changing the number of AAA points that should be counted.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Dinamo on February 07, 2012, 09:41:58 am
but would you have had proof of passage at the "intermediate (guide only) waypoint"?

......a GPS track would ensure that waypoint had been passed.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Peter on February 07, 2012, 09:59:59 am
Maybe there really is some ethical or other reason to refuse a different start and I'd be happy to be told so!

Seems to me an organiser is entitled to reject any proposed alteration to 'his' event, end of.  Pointless to wonder why.

Of course he is "entitled", Francis, I was just wondering what reasons might be given, though "I don't want to," is a pretty strong reason, if it is his event.  Just doesn't seem very accommodating, is all, without knowing anything else.

NB, wrt my quote above, I am still happy!  But wondering "why" is never pointless (fruitless, perhaps).  It is the human condition and is what makes us the polymaths we all are! :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: eck on February 07, 2012, 10:09:38 am
ISTR something about this being particularly relevant to AAA rides, where changing the start point shifts the whole route profile, and - in some cases - could result in there not being a 100km stretch with a qualifying amount of climbing, or changing the number of AAA points that should be counted.
This point hadn't occurred to me.  If this is the case, do I, in future:
1: insist that they use the "proper" start if they want any AAA points?
2: allow them to start anywhere, but deny them any AAA points, or re-calculate AAA points based on their starting point?
3: keep quiet and work on the twin principles that (i) life's too short, and (ii) it is easier to obtain forgiveness than permission?

Also, should the handful of people who have done the ride from a different start now be stripped of the AAA points they were awarded? Maybe we should refer the whole matter to the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

Reg.T (or anyone else) - can you say where this rule / guideline is to be found?  ???



Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: AndyH on February 07, 2012, 10:12:52 am
Maybe Mr Shaw has a purists view. It's all here (http://www.wessexsr.talktalk.net/perms.htm). His point, if I understand it correctly, is that a Wessex SR is to be ridden in it's unadulterated form, as crafted by the org(s) and ridden by our predecessors (http://www.wessexsr.talktalk.net/wsrs.htm). The date, once entered, is also fixed. So it's a commitment to ride a particular route on a particular day at a particular time. Pure Audax. For me that is one of the attractions of the Wessex SR. YMMV. 
Quote
Wessex Super Randonneur Permanents

Room 101, wherein our pet hates reside. Likewise Rule 101. "Predetermined Time" is not "09:00Thaturday 16th Monthoberary but if it rains I'll go the next week end that it's fine. OK?" No, it's not OK. "Predetermined Time" IS 09:00 Thaturday 16th Monthoberary whatever (subject to PRIOR negotiation).

The true permanent follows a set route whereas with the calendar events the route is advisory; the organisors preferred way between controls. The other form of permanent, the diagonal, joins two coastal towns and the rider nominates their own route and control points which are then agreed with the organiser.

Riders may be unable to ride the calendar events or may of course fail to complete on the day.

In order to assist riders whose aim is the Wessex Series the permanent versions (at randonneur level) of the Dorset Coast, hard boiled 300, Porkers 400 and Hellfire [Brimstone] 600 may be substituted for their calendar counterpart. (Riding three Hellfires and a Dorset Coast will not count). The Hard Boiled 300 permanent may be sustituted for the 3D300 calendar event.
There is nothing to stop anybody taking the Hellfire route, starting from wherever they want and submitting it as a DIY, GPS or traditional. It just wouldn't be The Hellfire.

As an aside Paul D & I had a route discrepancy on the Dorset Delight once. One of us had used an old routesheet (me IIRC). When I queried it with Shawn he asked me if GPS meant "gone past signpost"
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on February 07, 2012, 10:18:25 am
There is nothing to stop anybody taking the Hellfire route, starting from wherever they want and submitting it as a DIY, GPS or traditional. It just wouldn't be The Hellfire.
Sounds like it's a
Local ride, for Local riders.


;)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Peter on February 07, 2012, 10:23:40 am
 ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Reg.T on February 07, 2012, 10:51:13 am
This point hadn't occurred to me.  If this is the case, do I, in future:
1: insist that they use the "proper" start if they want any AAA points?
2: allow them to start anywhere, but deny them any AAA points, or re-calculate AAA points based on their starting point?
3: keep quiet and work on the twin principles that (i) life's too short, and (ii) it is easier to obtain forgiveness than permission?

Also, should the handful of people who have done the ride from a different start now be stripped of the AAA points they were awarded? Maybe we should refer the whole matter to the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

Reg.T (or anyone else) - can you say where this rule / guideline is to be found?  ???

I think it was here: http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=19349.msg346450#msg346450 (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=19349.msg346450#msg346450) - not that it seems very definitive.

Edit: As for referral to CAS, surely it depends on whether they've eaten any Spanish beef before the ride?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: AndyH on February 07, 2012, 07:34:48 pm
Sounds like it's a
Local ride, for Local riders.


;)
In this house Matthew, we do not have free routes between controls and our bidons are always topped up with aqua vita.

And please stop using smileys, it's most upsetting, you have no idea what I infer from them.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on February 07, 2012, 07:51:42 pm
 :-*
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Revolution9 on February 12, 2012, 07:28:33 am
Randonneur 500

If I did DIY rides of 50, 100 and 150km and a calender 200km at Randonneur speed this year, would I become a Randonneur 500? or do all rides need to be calander events?

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on February 12, 2012, 07:59:59 am
AUK's award system doesn't care whether the qualifying rides are calendar events or perms.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: The_Mikey on February 12, 2012, 06:17:09 pm
I'm wondering how do you register for a ride without a chequebook or a printer?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Karla on February 12, 2012, 06:20:33 pm
If it's allowed, enter on the line (as in the starting line).
If it's allowed, enter online (as in the internet).
If neither of those are allowed, find someone/somewhere else with a printer.

Then, get a postal order, or else include a crisp fiver with your entry. 
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: The_Mikey on February 12, 2012, 06:35:01 pm
If it's allowed, enter on the line (as in the starting line).
If it's allowed, enter online (as in the internet).
If neither of those are allowed, find someone/somewhere else with a printer.

Then, get a postal order, or else include a crisp fiver with your entry.

Thanks for the reply!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fuaran on February 12, 2012, 06:38:11 pm
Or there's a copy of the entry form in the AUK handbook if you have one of those, and have access to a photocopier.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fboab on February 12, 2012, 09:42:58 pm
I'm wondering how do you register for a ride without a chequebook or a printer?
I used to print at work, and get my mum (yes really) to send the cheques, from her house. Then I started sending Cold Hard Cash. Then I lost my job, and printed 'em off at the library.

Now I get someone else to do it. He has a chequebook and a printer and everything.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: The_Mikey on February 13, 2012, 07:36:07 am
I think I'll try to get a printout somewhere, and deliver the form and envelopes with £5 note personally, it's quicker and easier than trying to find someone with a chequebook. I might open up a bank account that does offer chequebooks, but I'm happy with the account I have now.  Thanks for all the replies!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: seraphina on February 29, 2012, 08:39:05 pm
Right, first random audax question. Our routecard has come through, and it has things called "information controls" on it. What are these? Am I right in thinking there will be a question or something to answer? Basically I would like to know if I need to bring a pen/pencil to write stuff down.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: saturn on February 29, 2012, 08:43:26 pm
It's what Ikea pencils are for. Biros have a nasty habit of not working when you need them.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: seraphina on February 29, 2012, 08:46:41 pm
Brilliant, thanks saturn! Pencil it is then.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hellymedic on March 02, 2012, 03:05:08 pm
Bring a writing implement that will work in all weather conditions, preferably without spreading ink if it's wet so a pencil is fine.
Information controls are designed to ensure you've not taken a short cut. There'll be a simple question on the route sheet and you write the answer in the space for it on your brevet card.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marcusjb on March 02, 2012, 03:10:47 pm
And if it's absolutely bucketing down - don't bother to write the answer there and then and destroying your brevet card - simply remember it and write the answer at the next proper control.

If you're worried about remembering it - take a quick photo on a camera phone!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Kim on March 02, 2012, 03:12:10 pm
And either stop to write it down, or do something cunning like take a fly-by photograph.  Don't commit it to memory on the assumption that you'll get the pen out at the next convenient stop, because by then your cycling brain will have had time to muddle it and you won't remember if the date on the bridge was 1875 or 1785.  DAHIKT.

If you're riding in a group, don't trust the others to have got it, either, unless you're absolutely sure.  Otherwise it tends to go the way of informal group navigation.


ETA: Crosspost with marcusjb, who evidently has a better brain than I do.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Martin on March 02, 2012, 03:21:32 pm
And if it's absolutely bucketing down - don't bother to write the answer there and then and destroying your brevet card - simply remember it and write the answer at the next proper control.

or even better; remember the location and question when you leave the previous control so you know what you are looking for (very useful for the gps-ified) rather than going 2km down a big hill and thinking "oh wasn't there an info back there?"

you can do one of the least subscribed or most strung out rides in the calendar and still guarantee seeing at least 2 AUKs stopped writing at every info;

and one of them will always be Roger Philo
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hellymedic on March 02, 2012, 03:24:19 pm
Even if you can reliably remember an info control factoid, remembering to write it down when you're in that nice warm café can be a challenge.
Your mind might be on your order/your bladder/remembering to fill bottles/the time/the state of your bum/hands/neck.
Repeating the answer on-stop for 20km may help but you may seem odd if all you ever say is 'Shepherd Neame'.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: eck on March 05, 2012, 07:17:07 pm
Riding in a group can be a real advantage where info controls are concerned. ISTR a 300 a couple of years ago which asked how many flagpoles were outside a particular hotel. There were three flagpoles. There were three of us in the group.
So were remembered one each.
Simples.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on March 30, 2012, 02:42:26 pm
Even if you can reliably remember an info control factoid, remembering to write it down when you're in that nice warm café can be a challenge.
Your mind might be on your order/your bladder/remembering to fill bottles/the time/the state of your bum/hands/neck.
Repeating the answer on-stop for 20km may help but you may seem odd if all you ever say is 'Shepherd Neame'.
Yeah, everyone's expecting you to say 'Butcombe'.  :D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feline on March 30, 2012, 08:41:44 pm
I never write down any infos until the end of an audax (in fact I generally don't bother carrying a pen). Creating memorable mnemonics is a fun thing to do as you ride, and in the event something is not easy to memorise (e.g. a telephone number) I take a picture of it on my phone  :D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Mike Conway on May 04, 2012, 09:06:07 am
I would like to do a DIY 200k audax on 13th of May by GPS. The start is just 10k west of Peterborough. Would I be correct in thinking to:

1 Purchase a virtual brevet card from Richard Forrest for £3
2 Ride the route http://ridewithgps.com/routes/1136343 (http://ridewithgps.com/routes/1136343)
3 Email the track log to Richard after the ride
4 Get my 2 points

Cheers
Mike
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cyclops on May 04, 2012, 09:09:52 am
I would like to do a DIY 200k audax on 13th of May by GPS. The start is just 10k west of Peterborough. Would I be correct in thinking to:

1 Purchase a virtual brevet card from Richard Forrest for £3
2 Ride the route http://ridewithgps.com/routes/1136343 (http://ridewithgps.com/routes/1136343)
3 Email the track log to Richard after the ride
4 Get my 2 points

Cheers
Mike

You need to submit an entry form to Rich listing your proposed controls before you ride.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: eeymsmo on May 04, 2012, 09:11:16 am
Assuming the purchasing a virtual brevet card also means getting RichF to confirm that the route's valid, then yes that's all there is to it.

What are the 'controls' for that route?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Somnolent on May 04, 2012, 05:14:41 pm
Assuming the purchasing a virtual brevet card also means getting RichF to confirm that the route's valid, then yes that's all there is to it.

What are the 'controls' for that route?

You need to work out the "controls"  (for a GPS these is simply points that you will pass though) such that the shortest distance between those controls (using Googlemaps set to walking adds up to the relevant distance.
Looking at the shape of your route I suspect you may end up with more points than is convenient for an organiser to check.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Mike Conway on May 04, 2012, 09:33:07 pm
Surely it's just a case of Richard checking that I've done 200k within the allotted time? The track log will verify this.

If I had to provide control points is it for example:

1. 0km Haycock Inn
2. 26.3km intersection of Old Weston Road and B660
3. 43.7km roundabout at Nene Way and intersection of A605
4. 45.1km intersection of East Rd and South Rd

etc. etc?

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fboab on May 04, 2012, 10:56:39 pm
Surely it's just a case of Richard checking that I've done 200k within the allotted time? The track log will verify this.
Not quite.
He checks you're at the control points in the right time points. Your approved route is the minimum distance between controls, not the route you ride. Your controls should be 30-50km apart on a 200km.

See here (http://www.aukweb.net/diy/routes/).
And, perhaps, the more on-topic parts of the discussion here (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=34447.msg645591#msg645591)
Not every ride is suitable for audax.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on May 04, 2012, 11:00:02 pm
Simply, for a 200km ride you should have somewhere between 4 & 8 control points, with the shortest distance between controls being at least 200km. If in doubt, plug the controls into google maps in 'walking' mode to check. Regardless, the route has to be submitted and accepted by your local DIY org before the ride.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Mike Conway on May 05, 2012, 08:09:36 am
It would appear that it will take approx 20 control points, meaning it would fall outside the rules and be too much checking for Richard to do. The guy who organised the route can't change it for me to get in a 200k audax, so I will gracefully stop pursuing this as a DIY and just go and ride the route.

Thanks for the info all - much appreciated.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: RichForrest on May 05, 2012, 10:51:30 am
Another point is that if you live in Norf London (as on your profile) your DIY org' is Martin and not me. The org' goes by your address not where you ride.

On another note, I've just moved (address on AUK perm page) and still awaiting internet to be put on. I have loads of emails to go through to check and add points etc.
I can get emails on this phone but the software is on my comp'.
Sorry for any delays.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Hillbilly on May 22, 2012, 01:17:23 pm
Has there ever been an article in Arrivee written about the Mizen Head to Malin Head (Irish end to end)?  If yes, any idea of the edition (or rough year)?  I want to read into the logistics of doing the route as an audax event (currently offered by Dave Lewis) with an eye on doing it in the future.  Of course, corresponding via email/PM with anyone who has done it would also be much welcomed.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Lady Cavendish on May 22, 2012, 01:23:54 pm
I've run it, but not sure if that counts.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Hillbilly on May 23, 2012, 08:16:58 am
I'm hoping not to have to walk much of it  :)

Although your post has made me ponder whether a rough stuff off-road tour might be fun.  Outside the auspices of AUK though.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on July 12, 2012, 03:31:17 pm
Random Audax answer:

http://www.aukweb.net/results/detail/this/listevent/?Ride=12-144

(cos I can't find the thread where it was asked about  ::-)  )
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ashaman42 on July 14, 2012, 10:53:36 pm
Can't remember if I've asked this already or not. Is it possible to get medals for rides already done (rides done in 2010, 2011 &2012) or do you have to get them as the time of the ride/validation?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fboab on July 16, 2012, 10:33:35 pm
You can get them later.
Contact the 'supplier' listed in the handbook with the details of your ride(s).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Jonah on July 20, 2012, 04:14:18 pm
When completeing a AA perm does one need to:

a) make each control within the allocated time to qualify;

b) provide other evidence (GPX) of sticking to the route.

I am aware of the rules Re. being able to take which ever route you like between controls on a non AA route,  but does the same apply for a AA perm?

J
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on July 22, 2012, 10:01:41 am
When completeing a AA perm does one need to:

a) make each control within the allocated time to qualify;

b) provide other evidence (GPX) of sticking to the route.

I am aware of the rules Re. being able to take which ever route you like between controls on a non AA route,  but does the same apply for a AA perm?

a) This is one of those questions that you will not get an offiicial answer to other than 'rules for AA(A) events are the same as for any other'. In practice, most view interim control times as 'guidelines. Many riders have experience of falling behind on hilly stages and making up time elsewhere (though if that involves a 50kph time trial through the hills expect questions to be asked).

b) You only require a GPX track for GPS DIY perms, and it is required whether you want to claim the AAA points or not. The corollary of that is a GPS track is only submittable for GPS DIY perms; all other events are validated by 'Brevidence' (manned controls, infos and receipts).

You are not obliged to follow any specific route, just hit the controls, so depending on how the controls are placed it may be possible to dodge hills. AAA's for GPS DIY routes are derived by analysing the GPS track after the event, so if you are chasing AAA points, hill dodging on a GPS DIY will prove practically as well as ethically pointless.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Hillbilly on July 22, 2012, 10:09:06 am
Does anyone know if the FFCT brevet randonneurs (aka cyclo montagnardes) automatically qualify as AUK eligible events, or if they have to be done as permanents to be recognised.

Related, do the altitude points gained on overseas events run by other national bodies count towards the AAA award?

Link to the events I am thinking of (for 2013) below:

http://ffct.org/index.php?id=45
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on July 23, 2012, 06:21:45 pm
Dunno about AAAs, but my experience of P-R*:
You can claim AUK points by sending the details to the AUK Recorder. Who IIRC was Neville Holgate at the time.

But your link talks about a 12km/h min speed, so that's confused me a bit - is that just for the hilly events?

(Rubbish answer, I know, but noone else has tried in 24 hours ...!)

*pretty sure P-R was an FFCT event
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Hillbilly on July 23, 2012, 06:27:33 pm
Thanks.  A similar principle I suppose, althought I'd overlooked the minimum speed and this is likely to rule the event out as an "official" AUK event.  The DIY option might be the only one up for grabs.  I suppose I could even just ride them as they are, but with an entry in the Mileater journal, without worrying about AUK "verification" (just like I've done with various Raids in the past).  Strange how the this AUK member mindset works - AUK recording gives it an additional sheen and purpose.

I was taking the silence as an answer in itself - ask someone with an official hat on.  I know Steve S for AAA but not sure about distance considerations.  I'm going to guess that its the AUK recorder...
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Jonah on July 24, 2012, 09:20:10 am
When completeing a AA perm does one need to:

a) make each control within the allocated time to qualify;

b) provide other evidence (GPX) of sticking to the route.

I am aware of the rules Re. being able to take which ever route you like between controls on a non AA route,  but does the same apply for a AA perm?

J

Thanks Manotea,
That's cleared that up

J
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on August 14, 2012, 09:08:00 am
... I'd overlooked the minimum speed and this is likely to rule the event out as an "official" AUK event.  The DIY option might be the only one up for grabs.

There are only two categories of events "recognised" by AUK.
1) Events organised by an AUK Organiser, or by AUK themselves, within AUK's general setup.
2) For non-AUK events, ONLY events that are listed in the Calendar of RM events produced annually by ACP. 
This calendar includes events from all over the world, though under 'France' it doesn't generally include FFCT events, good though they often are.  There is no AUK mechanism for 'appealing' to have a non-listed event recognised.
Now, I can't actually find the current RM Calendar online and the printed version is hard to find too.  The printed version used to be replicated in Arrivee each year, but that stopped when an online version became readily available.

Registering it as a DIY then riding the event would contravene the (currently unwritten) 'no concurrent events' rule.

I've ridden several of the BC-MF series of events (long time ago) and they are wonderful classics.  The most recent ones I did were split into three, time-wise - Tourist, Randonneur and Vedette or some such.  The Tourist version split a 200+ -ish mountainous ride over 1 and a half days, by all accounts a good time is had by all, at the overnight accommodation.  The Randonneur version is the classic wee small hours start, with the first mountain ridden in darkness, a snake of red lights to follow and a good long day in the saddle.  The fast version starts around 6am, and with a 7pm finish cutoff makes for quite a challenging ride.  Of course all three groups tend to tackle the last mountain together, which with 2000+ riders makes for a great atmosphere.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fungus on August 14, 2012, 12:44:27 pm
Brevet 25000 question.

Can the 1,000k be substituted for a longer ride such as LEL or does it have to be a stand alone 1,000k ???

I just need the 1,000k now & to get the 250 points required.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fboab on August 14, 2012, 01:08:38 pm
I believe it has to be a 1000km.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on August 14, 2012, 01:16:35 pm
AUK generally takes the approach that a longer brevet can substitute for a shorter one. ACP rarely allows substitutions.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ashaman42 on August 14, 2012, 10:30:51 pm
So if I were to ECE to the start of a calendar Audax but realise I'm not going to get there in time and so got a train would I still get credit for the actual event?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on August 15, 2012, 05:49:28 am
Yes.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Lady Cavendish on September 06, 2012, 04:50:08 pm
Sorry if this has been mentioned a million times but I am trying to sort out an ECE thing. Not done this before.

If I do a 100k event, and 50k to and from home either side, I assume it counts as a 200 for the RRTY?

The kind of route I just vaguely plotted to the event if I go out the way a bit and do a couple of intermediate controls looks to be about pretty much exactly 50k, but what site do people use to see the minimum distance between places?

Did any of that even make any sense?!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on September 06, 2012, 06:04:40 pm
ECE's broadly use all the same rules/understandings/"interpretations" as DIYs. And as I think only Martin does the things, your best bet is to see what he says  (either on the AUK event page, or on the DIY thread here).

IIRC Google maps walking mode is the current standard. ViaMichelin on "Shortest" was preferred before that. I suspect the latter gives shorter figures, if I'm honest!

Either way, if it ends up bang on x00km, I would submit it and ask for approval. Although with a route as short as 50k, you can probably check by eye whether there are any shortcuts possible.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wobbly on September 06, 2012, 11:45:31 pm
Sorry if this has been mentioned a million times but I am trying to sort out an ECE thing. Not done this before.

If I do a 100k event, and 50k to and from home either side, I assume it counts as a 200 for the RRTY?

I believe it does.

The kind of route I just vaguely plotted to the event if I go out the way a bit and do a couple of intermediate controls looks to be about pretty much exactly 50k, but what site do people use to see the minimum distance between places?

I always double check from two of Google Maps, Bikehike.co.uk or Microsoft Autoroute

Did any of that even make any sense?!

Nope.

But then I assumed you were taking certain substances given that you are posting on here...

:)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Gareth Rees on September 07, 2012, 04:09:01 pm
If I do a 100k event, and 50k to and from home either side, I assume it counts as a 200 for the RRTY?

Yes, that's right. You end up with two rides in your results list, like this:

Evno    Event                                  Date    Pts  AAA  Climb 
11-219  HELLESDON, nr Norwich 100              12 Nov  0    0    0
ECE01   Extended calendar Event 100km + 100km  "    "  2    0    0

Quote
What site do people use to see the minimum distance between places?

Google Maps in walking mode (not cycling mode, which goes out of its way in order to use cycling facilities).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Lady Cavendish on September 07, 2012, 04:17:41 pm
Ok thank you thank you all I will try and sort it out over the weekend.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Lady Cavendish on September 25, 2012, 11:45:35 am
Next question!

I seem to be missing a trick with these permanent events I think. Yes, there is a list on the website, but how do you know where they go? I'd like to know which ones go vaguely near my house, but it seems you can't tell until you get the routesheet as not all of them say where the controls are. Or am I missing something? There might be some that start for example in erm, Oxford/Wilts/Hants/Berks/anything with Thames in the title that come nearby but I don't know about them. Lots of them say for example 'starting in Hampshire' but nothing else, and that seems a bit vague?! Is there a section somewhere that says where they might go?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on September 25, 2012, 03:02:18 pm
It's a secret.

Now that you're an SRess, in November you'll be sent a leather-bound tome, featuring all the routes on gold-inlaid maps.

Don't tell any 'lesser' riders.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Lady Cavendish on September 25, 2012, 03:09:33 pm
Ah excellent. That will solve the problems. I await my gold inlaid maps.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on September 25, 2012, 03:29:57 pm
OK, serious answer; This is an ongoing problem (i remember suggesting a solution at the 2007 AGM to someone - that conversation has just come back to me ... ).

Your only hope is clever googling for ride reports, or to ask the question. Something like:
Do any nice perms start in erm, Oxford/Wilts/Hants/Berks?

I'm pretty sure this came up earlier in the year for this area, as it happens! Taste of the Test was one, there are also perm versions of some cal events you already know. I presume 200k-ish? (It helps to know active perm riders on your area, cos you can just ask them, or look at their rides lists.)
EDIT: looks like this is the one I was thinking of: http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=62090.msg1288956#msg1288956  ;D

I expect others will jump in here ...


It's a real shame we DONT have a better solution , as I'm sure it's contributed to the demise of the trad perm. [not that there's anything wrong with DIYs or even DIY-GPS, no sirreee ... ]
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Hillbilly on September 28, 2012, 06:35:05 pm
Email the organiser.  Most are happy to summarise where their routes go.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on September 28, 2012, 06:57:28 pm
Email the organiser.  Most are happy to summarise where their routes go.
True, but which ones do you ask? Even where start points are specified, you're looking at every event within 100k (say).

The "Map of permanents" looks quite useful ... until you click on the balloon at Buckingham, and the first event is:
"200km cycling event starting from Richmond, North YorkshireNorth Yorkshire"

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Hillbilly on September 29, 2012, 12:03:37 pm
It's like  7 degrees of kevin bacon.  A couple of times I've contacted an organiser by email or letter, asked if their ride passes by such and such.  If it doesn't they'll usually suggest one that does, or give some local knowledge.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Jonah on October 07, 2012, 06:48:45 am
If you start a ride before 00:00 on the last day of the season, and then go onto finnish it into the new season, which season would it qualify for?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on October 07, 2012, 08:05:21 am
The first.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Jonah on October 08, 2012, 09:50:50 pm
Even if all but one second of it was actually completed in the new season?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on October 08, 2012, 11:23:51 pm
So I have been told previously.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fuaran on October 09, 2012, 12:34:43 am
Note for the RRTY award, for a ride spanning months, it can count for either month, but not both. And you should do at least 200km in the month you want it to count for.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: davebax on October 09, 2012, 06:59:13 pm
Note for the RRTY award, for a ride spanning months, it can count for either month, but not both. And you should do at least 200km in the month you want it to count for.
Are you quite sure about that?
Quote from: MemSec in topic Round the Year Randonneurs Log, Reply #734
I've been giving some thought to RRTY and LEL.

LEL will count as a July 2013 qualifying ride for the RRTY.  That means that you have to be thinking about riding a 200 some time during August, which might be a struggle, both physical and mental.  As it is, I usually find August a difficult month in which to complete a BR, what with Marple Grimpeurs, holidays, etc

I suppose if you use the full time available for LEL, it would be possible to complete at least 200km of LEL during August.  If you can provide me with suitable evidence, such as a photocopy of your brevet card, I might consider LEL as an August 2013 qualifier for RRTY, but you certainly wouldn't be able to count LEL for both July and August - it's just one ride.

Does that sound fair?
To me this suggests that Mike is proposing a special exemption for LEL, not that any BR that spans a month end can count towards RRTY for the second month (if at least 200k ridden in the second month).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fuaran on October 09, 2012, 08:02:35 pm
See the RRTY FAQs: http://www.highergrangefarm.fsnet.co.uk/PeakAudax/rrtyfaqs.htm#FAQ12
It specifically refers to a 600 starting in one month and finishing in the next, but it presumably applies to other distances.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: davebax on October 09, 2012, 09:02:11 pm
Ah yes, I'd forgotten about Mike's FAQs. So Mike's reference to LEL that I quoted merely suggests that the same flexibility will apply to LEL as on a 600, not that LEL will be a special case. Sorry I doubted your post!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on October 10, 2012, 12:25:54 pm
Even if all but one second of it was actually completed in the new season?

Yes.  RRTY is one thing, but the AUK 'season' is quite another.
Any ride (event or permanent) has a 'date' - which is the date the ride is scheduled to start - and that determines which season it falls into.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: vorsprung on October 10, 2012, 05:22:19 pm
Even if all but one second of it was actually completed in the new season?

Yes.  RRTY is one thing, but the AUK 'season' is quite another.
Any ride (event or permanent) has a 'date' - which is the date the ride is scheduled to start - and that determines which season it falls into.

The cut off for BRM 400km qualifiers for PBP was Saturday 4th of June 2011
The Avalon Sunrise started at 10:30pm Friday the 3rd of June
Despite only having an hour and a half of a potential 27 hours before cut off at midnight Friday, it still counted
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Revellinho on October 12, 2012, 08:41:35 pm
Do Bank of Scotland ATMs generate receipts with the branch, time and date (like Barclays ones do)?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Martin 14 on November 03, 2012, 01:19:56 am
I understand that the Audax runs from begining to end of year memership wise, before I submit my application is it worth me waiting till January?

Thanks in advance

Martin
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: JonBuoy on November 03, 2012, 04:37:33 am
From the membership application form:

Quote
At the moment the membership fee includes the remainder of this year for free.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Martin 14 on November 03, 2012, 08:53:41 am
From the membership application form:

Quote
At the moment the membership fee includes the remainder of this year for free.

Thank you, thats me joined up then :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: derico on November 15, 2012, 09:17:06 am
Any plans to allow entry of perms by Paypal?

The route sheet and info controls (and electronic brevet if required) could be sent by email, which would leave the issue of brevet card as the main obstacle?  However, with the price of stamps increasing we find postage (3 * 50p) is £1.50 compared to event itself costing usually £3. PoP could be scanned and emailed back to organiser.

Already in the pipeline?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fboab on November 15, 2012, 04:32:09 pm
Depends on the organiser. If they've got an email address, it's worth asking.

(I know MemSec does)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Hillbilly on November 25, 2012, 08:06:56 am
Any plans to allow entry of perms by Paypal?

The route sheet and info controls (and electronic brevet if required) could be sent by email, which would leave the issue of brevet card as the main obstacle?  However, with the price of stamps increasing we find postage (3 * 50p) is £1.50 compared to event itself costing usually £3. PoP could be scanned and emailed back to organiser.

Already in the pipeline?

You are mixing up two things.

Some organisers will accept paypal but you have to sniff them out as per boab's reply.  I'm an example, but currently need a pdf scan of an entry form, not having a fully integrated electronic entry system.  This reflects that, in accepting PayPal, I am generally doing the rider a favour rather than it being a "standard" approach facilitated by AUK.

The PoP idea isn't possible at the moment as I/we require a signed brevet card, as per the regulations.  In one or two cases, an organiser has been permitted to accept gps tracklogs, but this remains rare.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on November 25, 2012, 11:25:46 am
The (new, now current AFAIK**) Regulations - no longer make any mention of brevet cards.  All you require is 'proof of passage'.

** whether they are current as of the date of the recent AGM, or as of some later date (Handbook publication?) - I don't know.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: BlackSheep on December 30, 2012, 06:55:05 pm
The (new, now current AFAIK**) Regulations - no longer make any mention of brevet cards.  All you require is 'proof of passage'.

** whether they are current as of the date of the recent AGM, or as of some later date (Handbook publication?) - I don't know.
Ah - the AGM that wasn't quite.

For practical reasons it was proposed from the chair of the meeting - and agreed by all present, that the gathering at Llandrindod Wells would be treated as an AGM, but would be rattified at the earliest practical date.

This date would be the next scheduled board meeting. And nothing would be added or omitted.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: PloddinPedro on December 30, 2012, 08:04:30 pm
So what actually happened - or not - at this mythical AGM and why (not)?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hellymedic on December 30, 2012, 08:11:33 pm
The AGM wasn't quite within AUK's rules because the printers did not distribute Arrivée in good time.
It was decided to accept the meeting despite this.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: PloddinPedro on December 30, 2012, 08:56:47 pm
I see, thanks.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ashaman42 on January 02, 2013, 10:48:07 pm
Doing a 600k before having done a 400k. Bad idea?

The events in question fit better location/date wise in my run up to LEL, will be doing a 300k (my second) about 6 weeks before the 600k, with the 400k following a month later with some 100s and 200s dotted around.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Hummers on January 03, 2013, 06:43:31 am
Doing a 600k before having done a 400k. Bad idea?

The events in question fit better location/date wise in my run up to LEL, will be doing a 300k (my second) about 6 weeks before the 600k, with the 400k following a month later with some 100s and 200s dotted around.

It depends on the 600k but I would suggest that this distance is easier (than a 400) for moderate paced riders as it allows for a sleep and time off the bike along the way - especially with early start times (e.g. 6am). 400s generally tend to have later start times with target finish times during daylight hours.

H
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ashaman42 on January 03, 2013, 11:04:57 am
Was thinking the BCM. Hilly but I've heard it's more long drags you can get a decent rhythm on than sharp shocks.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ashaman42 on January 05, 2013, 09:56:13 pm
Well that's my entry ready to go in the post. Funny that last year I didn't enter as thought there was no way I'd manage it and here I am entering it as preparation for LEL.

Not that I'm sure I can do either but I'll give it my best shot.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: caerau on February 03, 2013, 11:45:39 am
Hi, I notice looking at AUK's calendar events that some brevets are Brevet Randonneur and some are brevet randonneur des Mondiaux.

Googling about and looking at the FAQs here I can see that they are organised by different bodies but are there any other discernable differences between BR and BRM events?  It looks to my untrained eye that BRM events tend to be more arduous but I cannot see anything else obvious.  I may think about entering a BRM event and wouldn't want to inadvertently screw up and break some rule that I'm unaware of.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marcusjb on February 03, 2013, 11:56:54 am
Hi, I notice looking at AUK's calendar events that some brevets are Brevet Randonneur and some are brevet randonneur des Mondiaux.

Googling about and looking at the FAQs here I can see that they are organised by different bodies but are there any other discernable differences between BR and BRM events?  It looks to my untrained eye that BRM events tend to be more arduous but I cannot see anything else obvious.  I may think about entering a BRM event and wouldn't want to inadvertently screw up and break some rule that I'm unaware of.

Cheers.

Rough difference is that with BRM there is no extra time allowance for the over-distance.  So you get 13hrs and 40 mins (from memory?) to ride a 200 - whether that 200 is 205km or 220km on the road - makes no difference.  Whereas BR - you will get an extra however many minutes/hours to cover the over-distance.

So BRM is a little more stringent - but nothing to be worried about unless you are at the slower end of the scale.

BRM events are important for qualifying for many continental events (such as PBP, where your SR needs to be BRM).

In non-PBP years, fewer rides will be BRM (because it costs a little extra to have it validated by ACP). 

It's one of those weird anomalies that probably at some point needs to disappear. 

Really - don't worry about it unless you are really at the back end of the field.  Once you finish, your results on the AUK website will have the ACP brevet number next to it.  That's all.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: caerau on February 03, 2013, 12:16:52 pm
Aha, wasn't really worried, more curious really.  Thanks :thumbsup:

This...


BRM events are important for qualifying for many continental events (such as PBP, where your SR needs to be BRM).



...however, is worth noting - not planning on PBP to be honest, but one never knows what one may do in the future.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feline on February 03, 2013, 12:26:01 pm
Aha, wasn't really worried, more curious really.  Thanks :thumbsup:

This...


BRM events are important for qualifying for many continental events (such as PBP, where your SR needs to be BRM).



...however, is worth noting - not planning on PBP to be honest, but one never knows what one may do in the future.

It can be a good idea to ride at least one BRM the year before PBP so you have the option of early registration if you do decide to enter it.

The minimum speed allowance is more generous on BP events which is a good thing for new audaxers and locals entering 100k's who worry about getting round in time.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: caerau on February 03, 2013, 01:13:47 pm
Yes I'd noticed that - personally I didn't bother going through the BP phase as I'd already gone well over that distance privately before deciding upon taking on the audax challenge.  Doesn't meant I won't do one mind as I'm sure I'll miss some very nice rides otherwise.
Mostly I'd noticed the BP times because it would be nice to take my parter with me on a ride occasionally and I think she could do a BP as the time allowance is very generous.  I was going to take her around the Bristol Bash next month until I saw how hilly it is - she'll never make it up Dundry hill at the moment, I get enough complaints when we go around the rolling Vale of Glamorgan!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marcusjb on February 03, 2013, 02:02:04 pm
...however, is worth noting - not planning on PBP to be honest, but one never knows what one may do in the future.

See you in 2015.......

(you'll soon find out that virtually every ride leads to PBP - it's the one ride that you really can't escape from and you just have to ride it!)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: caerau on February 03, 2013, 03:03:35 pm
I can't imagine me being capable of such a thing.  But of course, I couldn't imagine six months ago that I would ride 200 k...
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marcusjb on February 03, 2013, 05:12:01 pm
I can't imagine me being capable of such a thing.  But of course, I couldn't imagine six months ago that I would ride 200 k...

And now you're booked in for a 300......

Get the hang of that distance and you're ready for a 400.  Get the hang of 400 and you're ready for a 600.  Once you've done long days back to back on a 600, you're ready to tackle something like PBP.  It's all about taking away the lessons learnt as you step up each distance and applying them to the next distance. 

I'm not super fit or super fast and I started riding audax in the October before PBP.  Over winter, I had a plan I might try and ride a 300 in the summer (and I remember thinking that was an incredibly long way to ride in a day and being very unsure that I would be capable of it), anyway got sucked in and rode a 300 in the March of 2011 (The Dean - a great first 300!) and decided at around that point that PBP was a possibility.   

PBP is certainly one of the best things you can ever do on a bike.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: caerau on February 03, 2013, 05:22:37 pm
Yes, it's definitely a slippery slope. This is all tremendously exciting stuff.  ;D Why did I not discover this cycling malarkey when I was proper young?  >:(
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Trull on February 05, 2013, 07:39:23 pm
Does anyone know of any listed permanents that go through Dartmoor?
Do LeJOG as an arrow, simples.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Jonah on February 05, 2013, 09:16:14 pm
Does anyone know of any listed permanents that go through Dartmoor?
Do LeJOG as an arrow, simples.

Sea Lovers does
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Revellinho on February 05, 2013, 10:56:12 pm
Normally an audax route should not use the same stretch of road in the same direction twice.  Does this apply to ECE - it is not hard to imagine arriving at the start down the same road that the route finishes, or leaving to go home on the same road that the route starts on.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on February 05, 2013, 11:41:52 pm
It's not unknown for 'figure 8' type events to repeat short stretches of road; the general injunction regarding traversing the same stretch of road twice is really to prevent events with 'laps (there and back is perfectly acceptable). That doesn't reflect your situation so I wouldn't worry about it.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: 12sprocket on March 30, 2013, 04:41:59 pm
Weight - or lack of it..... should I worry ?

As a noob to all this Audax m'larky I'm starting to feel a little apprehensive about stamina and what its built on physically.

Having spent well over a decade decorating RTTC events with mid-field or worse performances up to 12hr, I concluded that I'm more a rouleur than a puncher/grimpeur.  All well and good, I enjoyed 100s and 12s, managing to finish all but a handful of those I started.  However, the many recent tales of epic derring-do that abound the yacf do seem to infer that grit and stamina are the "stuff" of a competent audaxer.

Grit, I can rationalise to the noggin and keep it there, but the stamina thing is starting to concern me somewhat, particularly when on flicking through the weight reports thread I see no-one (except Feline) is sub-65Kg.... I know I'm smallish (52cm frames, 5ft8") but is having a "slight" build (BMI 20.5) likely to cause me issues regarding finishing such taxing events?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ewan Houzami on March 30, 2013, 05:03:40 pm
^ Just keep refuelling on the hoof surely? Crikey, if you're used to doing 12 hours I can't see the average audax being a problem. And if it's any consolation, at 60-64kg and 5'7" I'm even smaller than you. (Mind you, I don't do audax, so feel free to disregard this!)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fboab on March 30, 2013, 05:14:12 pm
I don't think you should view the weight loss discussion thread as being representative of anything but people who are trying to lose weight. I don't think they're all audaxers, and certainly not all audaxers are fat. If you have a BMI of less than 22 you don't need to lose weight, and wouldn't be posting on the thread.
Stamina, like every other aspect of cycling, can be improved with practise. I think it's called training.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on March 30, 2013, 05:41:55 pm
12s, you'll be fine. Even hard Audaxes are ridden at only 'spirited training pace'. The difficulty for newbies who come from the racing scene is not pushing it too hard, not eating enough or not being comfortable on the bike. Your 12 hour experience means you won't have too many troubles that way but gels, sports bars and goop in your bidons can pall after a day or so. Most folk shift to mainly real food on long brevets, often salty. Stomach upsets on exclusively sports foods can be a real problem.

Why are many Audaxers built heavily? Because the rides are a suitable challenge for folk who aren't racing snakes. Having lots of speed/ fitness changes the nature of brevets. Targeting specific finish times or events (ride only in daylight, spend lots of time at controls and repeatedly ride through the field, super-hilly, etc) can be a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: 12sprocket on March 30, 2013, 05:54:18 pm
That's reassuring, thanks Goldilocks, fboab and LittleWheels.... all makes good sense - I guess I really need to make the adjustment to proper "self-sufficiency" in my head as much as anywhere.... No nice turn marshals or support crew throwing bananas at me any more!

Thanks again   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ashaman42 on March 30, 2013, 06:05:08 pm
Another vote in the don't worry camp. I'm 5'6 and 62kg and slow with it, keeping pedalling and eating everything in my path seems to be a successful approach so far (a number of 100ks, a couple 200s and a 300k to date).

The biggest trick is to minimise faffing at controls, it's amazing how quickly 20+mins can disappear on you.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feline on March 30, 2013, 11:42:14 pm
Grit, I can rationalise to the noggin and keep it there, but the stamina thing is starting to concern me somewhat, particularly when on flicking through the weight reports thread I see no-one (except Feline) is sub-65Kg.... I know I'm smallish (52cm frames, 5ft8") but is having a "slight" build (BMI 20.5) likely to cause me issues regarding finishing such taxing events?

I'm also 5'8" and have quite fine bone structure so am pretty much the weight I'm meant to be. I'm no athlete, I'm a 42 year old mum with 2 teenage kids. I think 'stamina' is a combination of determination and practice. I must have acquired it to ride PBP, and if I can do it literally anyone can. I don't even have a fully functional set of lungs! When I decide to do something I generally commit to it fully and never give in though. I think that's what can get someone like me round Audaxes   ;D I'm sure with your background you will be fine  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on March 31, 2013, 07:51:14 pm
Weight - or lack of it..... should I worry ?

As a noob to all this Audax m'larky I'm starting to feel a little apprehensive about stamina and what its built on physically.

Having spent well over a decade decorating RTTC events with mid-field or worse performances up to 12hr, I concluded that I'm more a rouleur than a puncher/grimpeur.  All well and good, I enjoyed 100s and 12s, managing to finish all but a handful of those I started.  However, the many recent tales of epic derring-do that abound the yacf do seem to infer that grit and stamina are the "stuff" of a competent audaxer.

Grit, I can rationalise to the noggin and keep it there, but the stamina thing is starting to concern me somewhat, particularly when on flicking through the weight reports thread I see no-one (except Feline) is sub-65Kg.... I know I'm smallish (52cm frames, 5ft8") but is having a "slight" build (BMI 20.5) likely to cause me issues regarding finishing such taxing events?

A couple of years ago I was a newbie, recovering from a very bad accident and after 8 months wheelchair / crutches, with a knackered hip, I started audaxing...

I was around 64 kgs / 171 cms (5' 7") and soon very fast, avoiding stopping more than a couple of minutes at controls cos I struggled mentally with all the people and noise, and also from habit cos I had been a time trialist and my club never stopped for coffee or caik.  I was quite often first back, or thereabouts, which I now know wasn't what audax is all about, and I have learned to smell the roses and enjoy the company of my fellow riders....

Now I'm 60 kgs, & 171 cms, and I can ride all day on one bottle of hi five, and maybe three or four frusli bars, and sometimes less than that.

Just finished the Easter Arrow at around 420 kms in 24 hours, and in atrociously cold conditions, and though I did stop and eat when the others did, to be honest I didn't really need to, except of course the latte, which is my addiction !!!

I guess you would call me a racing snake, though at 60 (in a few months) I have probably shed more than a few skins, and I'm not quite so fast, but as for stamina     :thumbsup: ;D :thumbsup: ;D :thumbsup:

I don't think weight has an awful lot to do with how well you can audax, and it's more to do with your attitude and I'm proof that those of us of a lighter physique can have just as much stamina as anyone else....

Go for it 12-S
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on April 01, 2013, 11:14:37 am
Can someone please explain:
If a point is awarded for every 100km, why don't 100km rides score anything?!?

Does AUK not recognise the achievements of riders on the shorter events? 100km is a very long distance for some :(

Surely this cannot be encouraging new riders into our sport.  :-\
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: phil d on April 01, 2013, 12:00:19 pm
.......However, the many recent tales of epic derring-do that abound the yacf do seem to infer that grit and stamina are the "stuff" of a competent audaxer........

What you must remember is that the tales of derring do are the exception rather than the rule.  Most events are just another (usually very pleasant) ride.  But they don't make for exciting reports.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on April 01, 2013, 12:21:50 pm
I don't if anyone still uses the "Enter by Post" option on the website, but ...

There are some fields to record your Emergency Contact Nos, and  a tickbox to save them. This is definitely not working for me [I can see that Firefox has remembered the text!].

It's the most minor of miniscule inconveniences, but I just wondered if it works for anyone else?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on April 01, 2013, 12:44:17 pm
I don't if anyone still uses the "Enter by Post" option on the website, but ...

There are some fields to record your Emergency Contact Nos, and  a tickbox to save them. This is definitely not working for me [I can see that Firefox has remembered the text!].

It's the most minor of miniscule inconveniences, but I just wondered if it works for anyone else?

Not for me. I have a Emergency contact defined - offhand I cannot remember how it got there, though I assume it was via this form sometime back - which suggests the contents entered is saved to the database and is also written to the hardcopy form displayed subsequently, so the issue is not of saving the content but checking to display the content. Taking this further, if there is an emergency contact previously defined, the entrant should be invited to confirm it is still correct and current/applicable to the current event. That can be covered off by displaying the content and amending the wording on the form.  Minor stuff though
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: arabella on April 01, 2013, 12:48:07 pm
Grit, I can rationalise to the noggin and keep it there, but the stamina thing is starting to concern me somewhat, particularly when on flicking through the weight reports thread I see no-one (except Feline) is sub-65Kg.... I know I'm smallish (52cm frames, 5ft8") but is having a "slight" build (BMI 20.5) likely to cause me issues regarding finishing such taxing events?
Another sub-65kg (49cm frame). 
The weight reports thread is for weight loss, so there won't be so lightweights on it.  I think my BMI was nearer 19 when I started audaxing, but the caik soon fixed it.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on April 01, 2013, 12:50:52 pm
I don't if anyone still uses the "Enter by Post" option on the website, but ...

I do

but I just wondered if it works for anyone else?

yes it does
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on April 01, 2013, 12:55:28 pm
Bugger! I shall continue to feel victimised  ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on April 01, 2013, 01:37:35 pm
Bugger! I shall continue to feel victimised  ;D
Nope, I have the same issue. Though that doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. Or do I mean us?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Reg.T on April 01, 2013, 02:45:09 pm
I did have that issue (using Chrome) but think it's gone now. Can't recall whether I saved the details explicitly in the Members -> My Details page, or changed my navigation to force a site login before going to the entry page. Think it was the latter. Realise this is a workaround not a fix.
HTH
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on April 01, 2013, 02:49:44 pm
Thanks Reg.

I thought amending "My Details" sounded like a good thing, but it seems AUKWeb doesn't know my password anymore (despite my having logged in earlier to enter an event), so I'm rapidly running out of gumption to resolve this.
I rarely use the Postal Entry page, so it's less effort to let Firefox remember for me when I do.

I thought if there is a systemic problem, the powers-that-be may be interested. I'm not!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marcusjb on April 02, 2013, 04:17:57 pm
Weight - or lack of it..... should I worry ?


Grit, I can rationalise to the noggin and keep it there, but the stamina thing is starting to concern me somewhat, particularly when on flicking through the weight reports thread I see no-one (except Feline) is sub-65Kg.... I know I'm smallish (52cm frames, 5ft8") but is having a "slight" build (BMI 20.5) likely to cause me issues regarding finishing such taxing events?

No. Don't worry.

5 foot 8 and 60kg and yet to have failed to finished anything I ever started in audax world.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Revellinho on April 03, 2013, 08:45:33 pm
With DIY gps perms, as long as the route has been done before or you're sure it is fine, it seels OK to enter online right up until setting off.  What about ECE by gps online entry?  Accepting that if you make a mistake - and the route does not validate at your version of the distance - you might be disappointed, is it considered acceptable to do this, or does the '2 weeks prior to riding' concept still apply?  I PMd Martin, but just thought someone on here might know.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on April 03, 2013, 11:59:54 pm
I've always just entered online and submitted the file. Normally a day or so before. Never had the distance checked in advance, but I do attach a link to the route on googlemapswalking, which self proves I suppose.  :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on April 04, 2013, 08:36:11 am
Martin told me last year that last-minute entry is ok, just as for DIYs (GPS or not).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feanor on April 06, 2013, 10:36:11 am
How do ferry crossings work on Audaxes?
( I'm thinking about longer crossings that may take a significant time. )

Presumably, it's only 'cycling' distance that counts, distance covered on the ferry does not.
But how about time?

If the odometer stops when you're on the ferry, does the clock stop too?
Or do you just have to eat the ferry non-riding-time and then try to make it up, same as you would for a long cafe stop or a mechanical?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on April 06, 2013, 11:31:38 am
How do ferry crossings work on Audaxes?
( I'm thinking about longer crossings that may take a significant time. )

Presumably, it's only 'cycling' distance that counts, distance covered on the ferry does not.
But how about time?

If the odometer stops when you're on the ferry, does the clock stop too?
Or do you just have to eat the ferry non-riding-time and then try to make it up, same as you would for a long cafe stop or a mechanical?
The latter.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on April 27, 2013, 04:00:36 pm
ICBA to trawl through the thread before asking.......

If I wanted to pursue an SR or RRTY award do a % of the rides have to be Calendar events or can all the rides be Perms?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on April 27, 2013, 04:08:06 pm
Any way you want to mix them is fine but a bit lazy not even trying to look for the answer.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on April 27, 2013, 04:43:17 pm
I can do lazy.I'm very good at it.

ETA

I forgot my manners :-[......thanks for your input.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on April 27, 2013, 04:49:52 pm
give im a break! I'm the forum thread-nazi, but even I can see that this thread is pretty much designed for lazy questions :)

(everything* is covered somewhere in the FAQ. And covered in an existing thread. So there really is no need to ask questions, if you want to be really strict :P 

*OK, so there may be gaps ... but 18 pages worth? I doubt it.)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on April 27, 2013, 04:54:07 pm
How do ferry crossings work on Audaxes?
( I'm thinking about longer crossings that may take a significant time. )

Presumably, it's only 'cycling' distance that counts, distance covered on the ferry does not.
But how about time?

If the odometer stops when you're on the ferry, does the clock stop too?
Or do you just have to eat the ferry non-riding-time and then try to make it up, same as you would for a long cafe stop or a mechanical?

I did a dinner dart from Basingstoke to Guildford via the Isle of Wight a few years back.  Its the one time I've had to think about time limits.  Getting from Lymington - Yarmouth was no problem - I had my breakfast butty and tea on the ferry.  But on the way back I just missed a Portsmouth Ferry, and had to wait 45 mins for the next one, it was a 45 minute crossing.  It is the only time I have ever read a Saturday broadsheet from cover to cover during an actual Audax event.  :smug:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on April 27, 2013, 06:44:46 pm
Following on from above I've made an effort & found this

http://www.highergrangefarm.fsnet.co.uk/PeakAudax/rrtyfaqs.htm#FAQ14

'cause I wanted to know if an SR could be included in a RRTY effort.

I may have compromised my lazy reputation :demon: ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: arabella on April 27, 2013, 09:19:58 pm
I can ride all day on one bottle of hi five, and maybe three or four frusli bars, and sometimes less than that.
<snip>
I guess you would call me a racing snake, though at 60 (in a few months) I have probably shed more than a few skins, and I'm not quite so fast, but as for stamina     :thumbsup: ;D :thumbsup: ;D :thumbsup:
In the interests of science, you understand, I tried this method yesterday/this morning.  Consumption over 200km was:
2 marathons snickers
2 lattes, 'cos it was silly o'clock and I fancied staying awake
2 stale rolls (I'd been saving them since my failure to make it out of the house the previous weekend)
some water
I felt ver' weary at the end.  It did not make me faster by one kph*, probably the opposite.
(Dinner was pasta and sauce, about 1.5 hour before I left.)

*it may have made me several iotas faster.  afaik, an iota is not a measure of speed.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on April 28, 2013, 11:09:39 pm
You don't ride faster, however you do save time by not doing extended stops all the time.....
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: PAC on April 29, 2013, 11:04:13 pm
Food & drink on 200's...?

Yesterday as an example...

Big bowl of porridge with syrup and a banana washed down with coffee before I left home, then
Fruit & nut bar
Banana
Ginsters chicken sandwich (vile), packet of crisps, Yazoo and a latte
another fruit & nut bar
another banana
Friji milkshake
2no 750ml bottles of water with SIS GO electrolyte/energy powder
1no 500ml bottle of plain water
Avoided using 2 gels that I was carrying...

Sooo...is this similar to what others drink/eat (except Mikey who can run virtually on empty :o), or am I starving myself (massive hunger today with binge eating ;D)?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hellymedic on April 30, 2013, 01:23:56 pm
Food & drink on 200's...?

Yesterday as an example...

Big bowl of porridge with syrup and a banana washed down with coffee before I left home, then
Fruit & nut bar
Banana
Ginsters chicken sandwich (vile), packet of crisps, Yazoo and a latte
another fruit & nut bar
another banana
Friji milkshake
2no 750ml bottles of water with SIS GO electrolyte/energy powder
1no 500ml bottle of plain water
Avoided using 2 gels that I was carrying...

Sooo...is this similar to what others drink/eat (except Mikey who can run virtually on empty :o), or am I starving myself (massive hunger today with binge eating ;D)?

That is hardly enough for somebody who is going nowhere; I am not surprised you're hungry!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on April 30, 2013, 02:49:41 pm
I've done 190km (v hilly) on 2 litres of PSP and 2 bananas.  Would I have collapsed in a heap with hunger knock at km 191?.  Last weekend I rode 135km on 1 litre of PSP, but then spoilt it with a Fully Monty breakfast. 

I used to need to eat every 50km or so but after the likes of PBP - first control at 200km and Mille Miglia - first feed stop at 300km I've practised riding light.  It works well enough for the first 200km to 300km but then I need to go back to regular feeds.  I presume that frequent long events have trained my system to ration carb consumption.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on April 30, 2013, 07:56:14 pm


Sooo...is this similar to what others drink/eat

NO,nowhere near enough

I have porridge with honey & bannana for breakfast at home
toast & coffee if it's available at the start
beans on toast at approx 60km
dinner(eg:-sausage,egg &chips + cake & custard) at 100/120km
cake or ice cream & coffee at approx 170km

plus crisps,snickers bar,jelly tots & other nibbles in between meals which I can scoff on the move.

I typically use 4x500ml bottles of water (2 with Nunn additive):more if the weather is better than "warm"

hth
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Greenbank on May 01, 2013, 09:34:55 am
I eat much less on a 200 now compared to what I did when I first started Audaxing. I started off scoffing endless Ginsters pasties and having beans on toast every 50km.

On PBP I think I had a sandwich at Mortagne-Au-Perche (140km) and then my next food was at Villaines (220km). Just water in the bottles.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Deano on May 01, 2013, 09:49:03 am
Food & drink on 200's...?

Yesterday as an example...

Big bowl of porridge with syrup and a banana washed down with coffee before I left home, then
Fruit & nut bar
Banana
Ginsters chicken sandwich (vile), packet of crisps, Yazoo and a latte
another fruit & nut bar
another banana
Friji milkshake
2no 750ml bottles of water with SIS GO electrolyte/energy powder
1no 500ml bottle of plain water
Avoided using 2 gels that I was carrying...

Sooo...is this similar to what others drink/eat (except Mikey who can run virtually on empty :o), or am I starving myself (massive hunger today with binge eating ;D)?

That doesn't sound ridiculous. My last 200, I ate:

Two Weetabix at home, and coffee, then rode to the start (13 km)
Coffee at the start
Flapjack at 90 km
Huge meal at CrinklyLion's at 120 km (mac n cheese, hummus, a jacket tatie)
Coffee and a grain bar of some sort at 160 km
Tea and cake at the finish

(with plain water in my bottle)

Obviously that's less than some on here, but it's typical for me. I usually just eat at controls, and I generally carry bonk rations. On fastest ever 300, I didn't eat anything until the 150 km control.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: caerau on May 01, 2013, 12:33:20 pm
That's food an drink on the 200  I doubt it meant all day.  Presumably you ate something afterwards?

I've been known to go 100 miles on about 1/2 a mule bar, a packet of Shot Bloks and about 4 litres of home-made energy drinks.  But I *do* eat substantially before and after.  (and recently far too much of that sort of thing)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Deano on May 01, 2013, 12:36:44 pm
Sure - during the ride. I thought that was the question.

No idea what I had afterwards. My eating habits are rubbish.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on May 02, 2013, 07:01:57 am
That's food an drink on the 200  I doubt it meant all day.
For some of us, they mean pretty much the same thing!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: caerau on May 08, 2013, 02:17:44 pm
 ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fungus on May 12, 2013, 05:32:42 pm
Can I ece a perm  ???

I want to make the 2 battles up to 300k by doing the extra at the end. 

The 2 battles is 212k so do I just need to find an extra 88k?

I'd rather use the battles route seeing as I know it so well.  Otherwise I'll just sort out my own 300k.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on May 12, 2013, 05:37:21 pm
No, not currently.

Martin proposed it a while back. I thought it was great, but several loud members shouted it down , on the grounds that noone would want to ride such a thing.

(I'd ride them. )

oh, and I think you'd need a whole extra 100k, if the system existed!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fungus on May 12, 2013, 05:47:50 pm
Cheers Matt!  Looks like I'll be sorting out a diy route then  :-\
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Revellinho on May 12, 2013, 10:53:52 pm
same with the fleet moss 212k.  the reason is that the route might be 212k but it is only validated as a 200k... there might be shortcuts.  I will probably do it as a 300 this time round (did it as a 400 last year) but am now savvy - I drive to within 50 and a bit k to save going over Lindale Hill for no points!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fungus on May 14, 2013, 12:15:28 am
300k route sorted:

Amington - Newark on Trent   86k
Newark on Trent  Horncastle   58k
Horncastle - Collingham    48k
Collingham - Melton Mowbray   51k
Melton Mowbray - Amington   63k
Total                                    306k
 
Just gotta ride the bugger now  :)

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on May 14, 2013, 07:09:37 pm
I'd ride them.

Me too.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marylogic on June 05, 2013, 02:07:21 pm
Can anyone tell me what audax ecosse is exactly?

I've tried searching but I can't work out if it is part of audax uk or a separate club?

Or is it one of those secret things where if you tell me you'll then have to kill me? In which case leave me in ignorance please  ???
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Hillbilly on June 05, 2013, 04:01:28 pm
Good question! 

At face value, it is simply a collective banner under which randonneurs can associate for the purpose of PBP registration (the governing body, ACP, require you to be part of a registered "club").

But as is the way of these things, it also serves as a way for audaxers in Scotland to identify with each other in a loose way, without the traditional organisation of a club structure (for example, there is no committee).

Similar comments apply for yACF.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marylogic on June 05, 2013, 06:02:22 pm
Thanks!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: eck on June 05, 2013, 10:46:49 pm
Good question! 

At face value, it is simply a collective banner under which randonneurs can associate for the purpose of PBP registration (the governing body, ACP, require you to be part of a registered "club").

But as is the way of these things, it also serves as a way for audaxers in Scotland to identify with each other in a loose way, without the traditional organisation of a club structure (for example, there is no committee).

Similar comments apply for yACF.

That's the official line we peddle, it's what we want outsiders to think. The real purpose of Audax Écosse, however, ...   :-X
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on June 05, 2013, 10:56:10 pm
is to displace Haggis as the tradtional gastronomic delight  of Scotland with Forfar bridies ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marylogic on June 06, 2013, 08:17:46 am
Oh no I just read that! Will I be terminated now?  :o
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on June 06, 2013, 08:23:45 am
I don't think Termination is an automatic sanction.AIUI it is at the discretion of the Audax Ecosse Star Chamber.No doubt a member of the Clan McEcosse will be along shortly to clarify.
 ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Hillbilly on June 06, 2013, 09:22:05 am
By the way, as I understand it, you don't actually have to be Scottish or live in Scotland to associate with Audax Ecosse (but are required to do at least one audax event in Scotland). 

I've toyed with affiliating with it in the past (being an ex-pat Scot who makes a point of doing at least one ride up in Scotland every year) but to date have affiliated with my local (traditional, non-audax) club.  I may do so for PBP 2015 though, as it was noticable that people's attitudes (particularly USAians, Aussies and Canadians) felt more positive when I slipped on my Scotland flag top at the 2007 edition (and because I will probably not renew my membership for the local club beyond this year).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: yanto on June 06, 2013, 09:46:05 am
300k route sorted:

Amington - Newark on Trent   86k
Newark on Trent  Horncastle   58k
Horncastle - Collingham    48k
Collingham - Melton Mowbray   51k
Melton Mowbray - Amington   63k
Total                                    306k
 
Just gotta ride the bugger now  :)

I will be wanting to do a DIY 300 later this year, as i live not far from Melton this looks ideal, do you have a GPX i could crib?

pretty please O:-)!

Ian
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marylogic on June 06, 2013, 12:52:57 pm
By the way, as I understand it, you don't actually have to be Scottish or live in Scotland to associate with Audax Ecosse (but are encouraged to do at least one audax event in Scotland). 

I've toyed with affiliating with it in the past (being an ex-pat Scot who makes a point of doing at least one ride up in Scotland every year) but to date have affiliated with my local (traditional, non-audax) club.  I may do so for PBP 2015 though, as it was noticable that people's attitudes (particularly USAians, Aussies and Canadians) felt more positive when I slipped on my Scotland flag top at the 2007 edition (and because I will probably not renew my membership for the local club beyond this year).

My lbs offers a 10% discount if you're a member of a club and I'd wondered about Audax Ecosse (family +work preclude a local club). I live in scotland and have just done the Deeside loop since joining audax uk this spring, but I'm signed up for Forres Foray and hoping to do more next year.

Do you apply to affiliate or is there a complex initiation ceremony (involving bridies?)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Hillbilly on June 06, 2013, 01:10:52 pm
No need to notify anyone.  Just change you club affiliation via the membership details page on the Audax UK website.

That said, I'm not sure Audax Ecosse would necessarily tick the box for 10% discount.  What the LBS will have in mind is something like Dundee Thistle, Angus Bike Chain, etc which are traditional local cycling clubs who charge a membership levy, are run by committee and which they would like to have regular business from more than one person. 

That said, I've found that the 10% discount offered by LBS "for local clubs" is generally there if you observe that you'd seen it for less on the internet and was hoping they'd go part way to meeting that price as you want to support local businesses.  This generally ticks a box for them, as does the notion that if you become a regular then they'll make more money in the future on things like servicing etc.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: eck on June 06, 2013, 01:20:16 pm
Do you apply to affiliate or is there a complex initiation ceremony (involving bridies?)
Only if you're very lucky.  :-X

AIUI, the only requirement to join Audax Écosse is to complete an audax in Scotlandland. This rule was made up by somebody inna pub in Embra some time last century.

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marylogic on June 06, 2013, 01:28:41 pm
Great thanks  :thumbsup:

the lbs sometimes give me a discount anyway, but sometimes ask for a club. The last time I mumbled CTC and got away with it, but Audax Ecosse sounds better I think  :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Dibdib on June 09, 2013, 08:41:06 am
This is a daft question, and I think I know the answer, but what should be considered more definitive - the minimum speed listed in Arriveé or the control open/close times on the routesheet?

We had a bit of a "squeaky bum moment" suddenly finding ourselves running out of time and dashing back to the final control before it closed, only to find it'd been calculated to close at a different average speed and we should have had another hour!  :o
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on June 09, 2013, 09:05:54 am
I'm guessing that was probably an over-distance event registered as a BRM.  BRM rules are that finish times are not calculated by speed, they are simply set times, with no allowance for over-distance.  So for example a 300km finish time is set as 20h (==15k/h).  If it is actually 310km, the time remains the same but that is now (==15.5k/h), but intermediate controls will still be timed at 15k/h which is the fastest 'minimum' that AUK's rules allow. 
So yes, in this instance the final leg can be a bit of a rush for the slowest riders, with (in the example above) 40 minutes lost.  The situation is exacerbated if the organiser has set a lower min speed, such as 14.5kph (this shouldn't really happen, but it is possible under AUK's rules).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fboab on June 09, 2013, 09:24:57 am
It's a populaire, minimum speed is at the org's discretion.
I'd go with what's on the brevet card, generally.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Dibdib on June 09, 2013, 09:27:06 am
It's a populaire, minimum speed is at the org's discretion.
I'd go with what's on the brevet card, generally.

Cheers. Ah well - either way, we got back in time. Just that the last leg was a little too "timetrialesque" for my liking!  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Greenbank on June 11, 2013, 09:30:58 pm
Q: What happens if you're out of time at an intermediate control on an Audax? Is it game over?

All of these assume that the whole ride was completed in the time limits, but it was just one control where the rider was late. There was also no "good reason" (i.e. stopping to help an injured rider) for being late; the rider was just slow or had various mechanicals.

Variants to consider:-

It was a manned control but the controller had gone home after official closing time, but you get some local proof-of-passage and carry on anyway?
What if it's an unmanned control and the receipt says you were just a few minutes out (and the clock could be inaccurate)?
What if it's an unmanned control and the receipt, with the correct time, says you were hours out of time?
Is it any different on DIY rides?
Is it any different on Perms?

What about being very late for two controls but clawing it back by the end?

Factual questions and answers only.  Debate not needed.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Hillbilly on June 11, 2013, 10:55:35 pm
Control opening and closing times are printed on the brevet card, and should be adhered to.

The following is unofficial, based on anecdotal experience and in no way guaranteed to reflect your own experience if you find yourself in the position.  If in doubt, stick to the above paragraph!

However, AUK is a pragmatic organisation that seeks to recognise effort where possible.  So, provided the ride is done within the overall time limits, it would not be unexpected for the intermediate control times to be interpreted laxly.  Which makes sense, as for more events the intermediate control distance (and so the open/close times) are generally rough and ready, and only the finish control is given any great scrutiny when setting up the event.

Often it boils down to the organiser.  Some are sticklers for the rules, whereas others will adopt a flexible attitude.

But don't take the piss - show an effort to get to the control in time and, if running late, let the organiser know so he can inform intermdiate controllers.

So, in order of variants:

- Get proof of control and carry on (but if you contact the organiser, the controller may stick around)
- Likewise.  A couple of minutes is usually treated with a blind eye
- This gets a little more tricky.  You may need to justify why you were hours out of time.  In practice, you are either likely to be viewed as taking the piss (and so get told where to go) or not be in a position to finish in time
- Not for me to say, but my observation is that if you don't take the piss, you will be ok
- Not really.  More down to the organiser you are dealing with.  Some are ball breakers.  Others have a lassez faire attitude.

Hope that helps....
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fungus on July 05, 2013, 01:18:08 pm
Who do I need to contact to get AAA points added to my DIY route.

I believe it's worth three AAA.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Hillbilly on July 05, 2013, 01:36:59 pm
Who do I need to contact to get AAA points added to my DIY route.

I believe it's worth three AAA.

DIY by GPS or by paper?

If DIY by GPS, the DIY organiser will check if it is eligible for AAA when you submit the ridden track (i.e. post-event).  If their software suggests it meets the minimum rate of climb, they will forward it to the AAA man (Steve Snook).  If the software suggests it isn't hilly enough, but you think it is, then you need to ask them to forward it to Steve.  When submitting the track to your DIY organiser, it helps if you point out that you think it is AAA eligible.

AAA points are not available for DIY by brevet card (so called "traditional" DIY).

Note that you can't do a traditional DIY and then submit a GPX track afterwards to get points allocated.  It is one or the other.

So the long and short is "if you want the AAA points you suspect it is eligible for, enter the ride as a DIY by GPS".

Full details at the AAA man's website:  http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/audaxaltitudeaward/typesofevents.html
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fungus on July 05, 2013, 01:43:36 pm
Cheers Billy!

It's trad so lots of hills & bugger all AAA for me then :(
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Hillbilly on July 05, 2013, 02:39:42 pm
No worries.  A glimmer of hope might be the reference I made to submitting GPX files post event.   It may be Steve has relaxed the requirement in that case, as the traditional DIYs were excluded because Steve would have had to contour count or similar (although it would beg the question "why not do as DIY by GPS").  A definitive answer would come from the fingertips of Steve, who's email address is on audax.uk.net (although he may not be available for a rapid response...)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Revellinho on August 07, 2013, 03:24:04 pm
Who should I contact to get an SR recognised?  Mine does not appear on the AUK website, presumably because I used ECEs.  I did a variety of 200s, my 300 was the November Galashiels (Guy Fawkes) ECE'd, my 400 was the Easter Arrow and my 600 was the Elenydd ECE'd.  Or am I mising something?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on August 07, 2013, 06:29:16 pm
ECEs should be OK. However, there have been quite a few small oddities with them. Do you have a '6' in the points column of your season results? and a '3' (arrow should be no problem)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marcusjb on August 07, 2013, 06:40:39 pm
Who should I contact to get an SR recognised?  Mine does not appear on the AUK website, presumably because I used ECEs.  I did a variety of 200s, my 300 was the November Galashiels (Guy Fawkes) ECE'd, my 400 was the Easter Arrow and my 600 was the Elenydd ECE'd.  Or am I mising something?

I had to contact the recorder to get my 300+ECE sorted into a 600 - do they appear as separate dates in the results?  That's probably the thing - Allan tweaked them to be on the same date and the software picked up the 600 from there.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on August 07, 2013, 06:47:00 pm
While I'm here (and reminded):
Thanks to the Recorder/whoever for getting my Belgian 1200 in - and quickly.

(Another SR, I think that's 7 - and I've done more 1000km+ rides than calendar 400s.)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marcusjb on August 07, 2013, 06:49:32 pm
While I'm here (and reminded):
Thanks to the Recorder/whoever for getting my Belgian 1200 in - and quickly.

(Another SR, I think that's 7 - and I've done more 1000km+ rides than calendar 400s.)

Congrats.

I also have the same stat on calendar 400s (and I've only done 3 1000km+ rides) - I flipping hate 400km - stupid distance. 
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Revellinho on August 08, 2013, 06:28:25 am
Anyone know if the recorder can be contacted by email?  I don't like pestering on the phone and it's a lot easier than writing a letter.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marcusjb on August 08, 2013, 07:19:17 am
Anyone know if the recorder can be contacted by email?  I don't like pestering on the phone and it's a lot easier than writing a letter.

You can use the contact form on the auk website.

Allan has been super helpful on the couple of occasions I have contacted him.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Revellinho on August 08, 2013, 07:27:10 am
Of course - thanks.  Also nice to see you last week, I think we met up on the first day of LEL as we blasted northward, with that delightful tailwind.  How bright eyed and bushy tailed we all were at that point!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: phantasmagoriana on August 20, 2013, 06:23:20 pm
On the AUK calendar, the "Region" filter doesn't seem to always correspond with where rides are, geographically. (E.g. if I select Scotland, the list it comes up with includes some rides in England, and misses off some in Scotland).

Am I missing something? ???
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: caerau on August 20, 2013, 06:34:07 pm
As I recall it goes by where the organiser lives which can be the other side of the country.  For example if you look at all the Cambrian series (i.e. Welsh) permanents, it tells you they all start from Basingstoke! (Where Colin Bezant lives).  ::-)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on August 21, 2013, 01:37:55 pm
While I'm here (and reminded):
Thanks to the Recorder/whoever for getting my Belgian 1200 in - and quickly.

(Another SR, I think that's 7 - and I've done more 1000km+ rides than calendar 400s.)

Congrats.

I also have the same stat on calendar 400s (and I've only done 3 1000km+ rides) - I flipping hate 400km - stupid distance.

Ditto.  5 1000km+, 3 Calendar 400s (my first and two in PBP years).  If I do a 400 it is usually a lunchtime to lunchtime perm and have plans to do another couple of the Cambrian series.  I guess the next 400 Calendar event will be in 2015
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fungus on September 09, 2013, 05:39:56 pm
Can I do a 200k with just 2 intermediate controls  ???

Amington
Newark on Trent
Ashbourne
Amington

Comes out around 130miles.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Peter on September 09, 2013, 05:46:42 pm
If the shortest distance between those controls still adds up to 200k +, as you suggest, I don't see why not.  There might be a problem if one was one was only 20 or 30k from another but that doesn't appear to be the case.  Why not just submit it to your DIY organiser and see?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Somnolent on September 09, 2013, 05:57:57 pm
Amington
85km
Newark on Trent
75km
Ashbourne
50km
Amington
(distances per gmaps walking)

First leg is a little outside the "guideline" maximum of 80km, but I'd be surprised if your local DIY organiser had a problem with it.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wallace on September 09, 2013, 10:35:53 pm
When does the new 2013-2014 start? I have been trawling through the AUK website and not finding that nugget of information...!

Thanks in advance for any response to this...

W.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Deano on September 09, 2013, 11:22:58 pm
1st October. It's probably in the handbook.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wallace on September 10, 2013, 09:19:13 am
1st October. It's probably in the handbook.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Hillbilly on September 10, 2013, 09:24:36 am
The "when does the season start" question pops up so frequently, it makes me think AUK should put something on the front page of the website.  Or in an FAQ.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wallace on September 10, 2013, 08:26:01 pm
I agree, it should be emblazoned on the AUK home-page as a celebration of the new year ahead, kind of thing...


Last year was my first half season, I spent more time reading about audax rather than doing, however, I now feel better prepared for the new season ahead, but yes it should be well advertised on the AUK website!

W.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on September 11, 2013, 06:50:22 pm
The "when does the season start" question pops up so frequently, it makes me think AUK should put something on the front page of the website.  Or in an FAQ.
As a proper AUK pedant, I find the wording of your last sentence odd. Because there already IS an FAQ:
http://www.aukweb.net/faq.htm

Hope This Helps,
M :)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Reg.T on September 12, 2013, 03:04:46 pm
The Brevet 2/3/4000 awards are for rides of 100-200km (200s only for the 4000, AIUI).

Can a Calendar 200 with a 100 ECE count towards these, or does that have to be counted as a 300?

(I suspect the latter, but want to be sure).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: chrisbainbridge on September 12, 2013, 03:24:20 pm
Am I being stupid?  The answer above said the season started on 1 October.

The FAQ posted by Mattc says 1 November.

Which is correct?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: caerau on September 12, 2013, 03:35:48 pm
October - it's been brought forward by a month a couple of years ago apparently.


Season definitely ends end of this month. (Sept)


I recently wrote an article about audax for an online encylopedia and this confused the hell out of me too - but I checked Bikey Mikey's results as a reference seeing as he's a machine and the current season does date back to Oct 2012.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Reg.T on September 12, 2013, 03:52:46 pm
Am I being stupid?  The answer above said the season started on 1 October.

The FAQ posted by Mattc says 1 November.

Which is correct?

Yes, Matt was pointing out the reference in the FAQ without highlighting that it is inaccurate. I'll leave it to the jury to decide whether or not this was done wilfully.

2010-11 was Nov-Oct (and prior years)
2011-12 was Nov-Sep (11 months)
2012-13 is Oct-Sep (the new standard season).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Reg.T on September 12, 2013, 05:22:08 pm
ECE question: is it possible to use ECEs to join Calendar events?

For example, in 2013 The Dean 300 from Oxford was on a Saturday, and the LVIS Bristol rides were the next day. As a Bristol-based rider, that would create a potential 100 ECE + 300 Cal + 100 ECE + 200 Cal, so 700 overall, which would bring overall min speed down to 13.3, giving over 52 hours to complete. That would allow a Friday afternoon pootle up to Oxford and a decent sleep before the start. Sat night might have more limited sleep opportunities though.

Note: this is a theoretical question only ATM.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on September 12, 2013, 06:13:56 pm
Be aware the calendar events must be completed to the regular event schedule, i.e., a min of 15kmph.

And the next question would be, what if you DNS/DNF the LVIS event...
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Reg.T on September 12, 2013, 06:32:01 pm
Yes, appreciate that the events must be done to their time limits.

I would assume that just the 300 would be validated (in the same way as an ECE 100 DNF after a successful Cal 200 would still count for 2 points). Asking for the ECE to be validated because it was finished would be asking too much (just as you can't get a 200 ECE to an event validated if you DNF the event).

Similarly, an Oxford based rider who finished both events but failed to get back home in time would get the 2 events validated.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: billyam998 on September 12, 2013, 07:31:48 pm
New question, I am off to Majorca 8) at the end of october, not the best of times however, the weather there is almost certainly going to be better than here.
My questions are- A, are there any permanents out there?  B, If there are no permanents, can I do DIY? C, If I can do DIY who do I buy the cards off?

Many thanks, I will be based in pollensa, I have been 3 times before so know at least 3 good rides  100, 200 & 300 that would start my 2013/2014 season off really well  ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on September 13, 2013, 12:15:04 am
I have no knowledge of organised island perms but diys would be fine.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Martin on September 13, 2013, 12:40:24 am
ECE question: is it possible to use ECEs to join Calendar events?

yes it's techically possible; I can award an extra ECE distance; it does not have to be tied to just one event; just needs a start date for the whole ride

as Manotea says though make sure you factor in the calendar minimum speeds within the overall 14.3kph maximum

you can use both ECE legs as part of the same entry; they are linked to the same calendar event

I might need to run it past Mr W first please let me know your plan  :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jsabine on September 13, 2013, 12:49:11 am
ECE question: is it possible to use ECEs to join Calendar events?

yes it's possible; I can award an extra ECE distance; it does not have to be tied to just one event; just needs a start date for the whole ride

as Manotea says though make sure you factor in the calendar minimum speeds within the overall 14.3kph maximum

Ooh - I vaguely contemplated this a little while ago, and had been meaning to ask.

On another note, can non-UK events be ECEd? (Specifically, Audax Ireland - my wife's mum's house is a convenient distance from the start of Dublin-based events, so when I get round to taking a bike over there I may be interested.)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: BrawleyBurst on September 15, 2013, 01:21:40 pm
Does anyone have views or information on the rolling resistance of tyres?

My question is based on my PB time for a 200 km last Saturday on Mark Rigby's Mr Pickwick Goes to Hay in a Day, using new Schwalbe Marathon tyres instead of my normal Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres, which I have used for the last five years (bomb proof for me, not a single P******e in that time ).

Maybe I should upgrade again to a racing tyre and enter Le Tour!
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/Smileys/classic/smiley.gif
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Reg.T on September 16, 2013, 04:33:07 pm
Bump...
The Brevet 2/3/4000 awards are for rides of 100-200km (200s only for the 4000, AIUI).

Can a Calendar 200 with a 100 ECE count towards these, or does that have to be counted as a 300?

(I suspect the latter, but want to be sure).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on September 16, 2013, 08:04:01 pm
Does anyone have views or information on the rolling resistance of tyres?
Definitely.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on September 16, 2013, 08:08:06 pm
Bump...
The Brevet 2/3/4000 awards are for rides of 100-200km (200s only for the 4000, AIUI).

Can a Calendar 200 with a 100 ECE count towards these, or does that have to be counted as a 300?

(I suspect the latter, but want to be sure).
<notes plaintive bump>
I can't give an authoritative answer, but my educated guess:
It will count as a 200, cos you will get a 200 listed in your results. Unless the 'owner' of those awards is scanning all lists in detail, and is particularly harsh/pedantic (depending on your view)!

(Of course techically it is indeed a 300, so shouldn't count. :shrugs: )

IMHO if you are riding ECE300s, then worrying about awards for 100/200km is a bit irrelevant. But YMMV!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on September 16, 2013, 08:31:22 pm
The Brevet 2/3/4000 awards are for rides of 100-200km (200s only for the 4000, AIUI).

Can a Calendar 200 with a 100 ECE count towards these, or does that have to be counted as a 300?

(I suspect the latter, but want to be sure).
Well, the AUK website says: Brevet 2000.

"Carry on collecting 100s or 200s over as long a period as you like, and eventually you will have your Brevet 2000. That's 10 x 200km or 20 x 100km. Remember, you can't mix them, and you can't substitute longer rides."

So that seems fairly clear. Now it may be that the AUK website will automatically make the award but it seems a safe bet the relevant AUK website functions pre-date ECEs and have not been updated to check for this.

So if you do 19*200 and a 300ECE and find yourself with a Brevet2000, it is an error and you should report it as such. It's not a big deal because you'll get it next time out, as there are no time limits on the award. So the thing to do is  go ride another 200. You know you want to!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on September 16, 2013, 10:52:33 pm
You have to claim it unless you manage to knock them over within a single AUK season. Otherwise you won't get the award.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on September 17, 2013, 08:49:43 am
You have to claim it anyway.  There are no (public) website functions for B2000, 3000, 4000.
But AFAIK a 200+100 is correctly flagged as a 300 for SR purposes by the website.  The complexities introduced by ECE is the main reason the tables are now refreshed nightly instead of being calculated on the fly.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on September 17, 2013, 09:51:47 am
The complexities introduced by ECE is the main reason the tables are now refreshed nightly

Ongoing thanks to all involved!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: davebax on September 17, 2013, 06:26:53 pm
You have to claim it anyway.  There are no (public) website functions for B2000, 3000, 4000.
These awards aren't listed on the AUK website, but they appear in the Handbook (see pages 19 & 20 of 2013 Handbook) for awards earned entirely within the latest season, and I for one appear in them without having made a claim.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ian H on September 17, 2013, 07:00:52 pm
You have to claim it anyway.  There are no (public) website functions for B2000, 3000, 4000.
These awards aren't listed on the AUK website, but they appear in the Handbook (see pages 19 & 20 of 2013 Handbook) for awards earned entirely within the latest season, and I for one appear in them without having made a claim.

That would mean that our Recorder, Allan, is checking through results manually.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on September 18, 2013, 04:49:17 pm
Actually it's me that has done that, over the past several years, and it only happens because a) I retain (possibly through a loophole) privileged access to the online database so it's actually a very easy query for me to execute, and b) I live with the Handbook editor.
So it's not really something that can be taken for granted, a change of Systems Manager could well lead to a denial of my access. 
I don't think Allan has any practical way of assembling these lists, I don't know if he keeps records of claimants but they would only be a tiny fraction of eligible people for these long-term awards.
I discussed with him the other day the possibility of removing these partial lists from the Handbook (I'm doing the Handbook this year as Sheila will be out of the country in November) - from my point of view they a) take valuable space and b) are somewhat invidious, being only partial lists.  However the upshot is, they will stay, for the next issue at least.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: billyam998 on September 23, 2013, 07:59:36 pm
3 questions (am I allowed)
Can I add rides completed prior to memebrship to my history and if "yes" how do I do it?
I have managed to get my randonneur 1000 and it's showing on my awards page, do I have to claim it? Is there a badge for this?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Hillbilly on September 23, 2013, 08:26:23 pm
Yes, you can (may be limited to "current" season in which you become a member though).  Suggest you get in touch with the AUK Recorder (I think he is the person to contact!) with your membership number and the brevet number for your event (used to be on the validation sticker).  Currently Allan Taylor (contact via http://www.aukweb.net/contactus/ )

It is automatic for the R1000 (no need to claim).  It's typically only the multiple year awards that might need claims (or more obscure ones, like fixed wheel).  Examples are the Brevet 10,000 (and event there, it's possible it might be picked up automatically).

There is a medal and badge to purchase.  See: http://www.aukweb.net/results/medalsbadges/ for list of badges etc, and http://audaxmedals.southportcc.co.uk/ for ordering form.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: billyam998 on September 23, 2013, 09:58:57 pm
thankyou  8)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Moschops on September 25, 2013, 09:42:02 am
Quick question about RRTY:

Quote
Qualification: a validated BR or BRM in each of any 12 consecutive
months, as listed on the AUK results website.

The Eureka 200 km permanent was a BP and I just squeaked in at Randonneur speed. Would that count towards RRTY or not?

Thanks
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on September 25, 2013, 09:44:56 am
Ask MemSec directly. He is the RRtY honcho.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: dubya on September 26, 2013, 07:41:25 pm
Hi,

I've just joined Audax UK :) Paid my money on the website, haven't printed my membership card yet though.

Could anyone tell me if I should be expecting anything through the post?  And possibly what that would be?  I joined about 2 weeks ago, so I realise it's early days to expect anything to turn up.

Also, on the Audax Website it talks about completing distances within 'a season'.  Could someone tell me when the season runs from and too?

Apologies for all the newbie questions if they are in the wrong place.

Thanks,

(Phil) Dubya
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fboab on September 26, 2013, 08:09:46 pm
The season is October to end September. You should get a handbook and the latest arrivee (I think) in the post. Memsec should be along in a while to confirm.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Revellinho on September 26, 2013, 08:22:18 pm
because you joined so late in the season, your fee should cover you till the end of next september
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fboab on September 26, 2013, 08:46:45 pm
Membership goes by the calendar year, not the audax season (doesn't it?)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Chris S on September 26, 2013, 08:56:23 pm
Membership goes by the calendar year, not the audax season (doesn't it?)

Yes.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hellymedic on September 27, 2013, 06:01:16 pm
Membership goes by the calendar year, not the audax season (doesn't it?)

Yes.
Membership will end 31/12/2014 (or 2018).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: dubya on September 29, 2013, 09:21:07 am
Thank you for answering my questions, the membership landed on my doorstep this weekend.

So it would appear I have joined just in time for the 13-14 season :-)  More luck than judgement!

Cheers, Phil.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fboab on October 23, 2013, 01:13:59 pm
If, hypothetically, one felt driven to make an official complaint, about an audax, where should one address that to?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marcusjb on October 23, 2013, 01:16:03 pm
If, hypothetically, one felt driven to make an official complaint, about an audax, where should one address that to?

Hypothetically, I would guess at the Events/Calendar Secretary being the first port of call?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on October 23, 2013, 01:19:01 pm
Or if (hypothetically and I do hope not!) about Perms, the Perms Secretary.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fboab on October 23, 2013, 01:21:54 pm
Or if (hypothetically and I do hope not!) about Perms, the Perms Secretary.
Don't be silly- you've been brill!  :-*
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on October 23, 2013, 01:33:51 pm
 :)  :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: pizzicatooff on October 23, 2013, 02:37:35 pm
If, hypothetically, one felt driven to make an official complaint, about an audax, where should one address that to?

One should start by looking at the Audax UK Regulations (and their Appendices) in the AUK handbook.

Regulation 1.5 covers complaints procedures.

Appendix 1.5 describes these complaints procedures, and Appendix 1.5.2 notes helpfully:
Quote
1.5.2 Complaints regarding the conduct of an event should be made to the organiser’s club and
copied to the AUK events secretary. If the complaint is upheld by the AUK events secretary, the
organiser’s level will be rescinded.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fboab on October 23, 2013, 02:47:42 pm
Thank you. I shall now weigh up whether the hypothetical should become actual.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wallace on November 04, 2013, 08:00:51 am
Trying to share or send/export my GPX or TCX files from garmin connect as part of the submission for DIY-GPS... My GPX files will not open, is there a download to help open and send these files... The notice I get from garmin is that the site is down for repair when I try to share the link of my ride, here: http://connect.garmin.com/course/5098930#.UnZcbs2h9Ro.gmail and my files always want to open in some dodgy download which is blocked by Norton...

Advice welcome  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: RichForrest on November 04, 2013, 08:30:23 am
Garmin basecamp works for me or download the gpx file to your computer and send it as an email attachment.
The link you send for the site only opens the page for the organiser, I have found the file can't be downloaded from it the various times riders have sent it to me.
The organiser needs to run it through the AUK software and keep the file on record. You can download it straight from the connect site but the organiser can't.

Rich
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Reg.T on November 04, 2013, 09:40:27 am
For my 2 GPS submissions so far (both ECE), I've used GPSBabel to convert the .FIT file stored on the device into a GPX file that the AUK software can read.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wallace on November 04, 2013, 10:15:45 am
For my 2 GPS submissions so far (both ECE), I've used GPSBabel to convert the .FIT file stored on the device into a GPX file that the AUK software can read.

Garmin basecamp works for me or download the gpx file to your computer and send it as an email attachment.
The link you send for the site only opens the page for the organiser, I have found the file can't be downloaded from it the various times riders have sent it to me.
The organiser needs to run it through the AUK software and keep the file on record. You can download it straight from the connect site but the organiser can't.

Rich

Thanks both, I have downloaded the file again and sent it as is to the AUK organiser, lets see what comes back... If AUK have the gidgetry to unlock the file, super, less fettling on computers for me... thanks, W.  ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on November 04, 2013, 05:52:58 pm
I think the problem might be that you can make your rides either private or public, and if they are private then only you can download files from them...

I uploaded my DIYxGPS done today to Garmin Connect, and had a look at it.

Then I chose EXPORT

selected  GPX

you then get a save dialogue, and I tend to code each file with a reference number, and the date, and save it in a special DIYxGPS file for that ride.

Then I email the organiser and attach the file.

It has always worked for me that way !!

PM me if you are still having problems   :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fuaran on November 04, 2013, 06:56:55 pm
I think the problem might be that you can make your rides either private or public, and if they are private then only you can download files from them...
Even if the ride is set as public, you can only export a file for an activity if you are registered and logged in to Garmin Connect. So the organiser could download the file as a GPX or TCX if they register for Garmin Connect.

Note you only export a file for an activity (ie a ride you have recorded on your GPS and uploaded), you can't export a file for a course (ie a route you have drawn on Garmin Connect).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wallace on November 04, 2013, 08:03:12 pm
Thanks for the advice folks :)... I have now uploaded my route, downloaded base camp and sent the GPX to the org who has validated it  ;D... I now have two Brevets for this year...  :thumbsup:... long may it continue...

W.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Revellinho on December 31, 2013, 11:35:36 am
if one were to enter a foreign event that requires an SR series of BRMs as a qualifier (in the same year as the event), how would you evidence the rides?  Presumably you can't turn up at registration with your validated brevet cards, because most of them would not have been returned - quals in May/June, big event in July.  As stated elsewhere, I'm trying to organise entry to the Bavarian 1200 this year but have never entered an event outside of the UK before.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 31, 2013, 12:18:12 pm
Just email your brevet numbers to the organiser, though a couple of sticklers asked for scans of brevet cards. Most accept BR in place of BRM when the UK situation has been explained.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on December 31, 2013, 04:48:09 pm
ACP brevet numbers for AUK/BRM events are displayed on the AUK website probably long before you get the brevet card back.  When things are running smoothly, the turnround is only a week or so.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: SR Steve on January 01, 2014, 01:24:13 am
I rode the previous Bavarian 1200 and found the organisers to be very helpful and welcoming. I had to enter before all of the ACP brevet numbers were on the AUK website, but it wasn't a problem. I emailed the numbers later, but I don't think the organisers are as strict as the website makes out.

It is a great ride, as can be seen by the photos on the website and pretty lumpy, so definitely worth choosing hilly qualifiers to built up to it.

My wife and kids flew down after the finish and we enjoyed a two week camping holiday in Bavaria before heading back home together in my van.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Greenbank on January 27, 2014, 10:50:36 am
Noticed the new Audax UK mudguard stickers on a recent photo. My insurance replacement Audax bike lacks stickers.

How do I get a couple more? Send an SAE (and a stamp to cover payment?) to the Recorder?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: delthebike on January 27, 2014, 10:51:43 am
Noticed the new Audax UK mudguard stickers on a recent photo. My insurance replacement Audax bike lacks stickers.

How do I get a couple more? Send an SAE (and a stamp to cover payment?) to the Recorder?
From here http://audaxmedals.southportcc.co.uk/
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Greenbank on January 27, 2014, 12:04:52 pm
Ta!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fboab on January 27, 2014, 03:45:50 pm
Erm... That website was set up by the previous recorder.
I'd check with the current one (our own pPpete) that it still works.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on January 27, 2014, 03:52:38 pm
It works. I ordered medals and badges off it a few weeks ago and got some bonus mudguard stickers with them.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Greenbank on January 31, 2014, 06:28:00 pm
Mudguard stickers received this morning. They were from the previous recorder.

I do like the newer red ones. Shiny.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wallace on February 20, 2014, 09:17:05 pm
Does anyone know if the carradice bagman 2 expedition rack will fit onto a Brookes flyer saddle?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Colin. on March 18, 2014, 07:23:12 pm
Hi everyone,
                  I'm new to cycling I only started in October. I like the idea of doing some Audax rides but I'm a bit worried about the thought of not having a broom wagon to get people with break downs back to the start. How many times have you broken down and not been able to finish and if not how did you get yourself and your bike back ?

Another question, if it says mudguards on the entry does that mean I must have them to be able to ride ?

Thanks Colin
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Revellinho on March 18, 2014, 07:44:14 pm
Colin, you may well get a storm of replies to these questions, some pointing to other threads on here and elsewhere!  My short answers are do a few rides that are not too arduous/remote and make sure your bike's in a good state of repair.  If it goes pear shaped you can usually limp to a train station, if you've not chosen a ride through desolate unpopulated areas.  If the organiser asks for mudguards, then it would be very confrontational to turn up without.  You can generally fit some 'clip on' types.  It's a bit anti-social to the rider behind you and increases the chances of friction with café owners if you sit on their furniture with a backside unprotected by mudguards.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Colin. on March 19, 2014, 04:44:37 am
Colin, you may well get a storm of replies to these questions, some pointing to other threads on here and elsewhere!  My short answers are do a few rides that are not too arduous/remote and make sure your bike's in a good state of repair.  If it goes pear shaped you can usually limp to a train station, if you've not chosen a ride through desolate unpopulated areas.  If the organiser asks for mudguards, then it would be very confrontational to turn up without.  You can generally fit some 'clip on' types.  It's a bit anti-social to the rider behind you and increases the chances of friction with café owners if you sit on their furniture with a backside unprotected by mudguards.

Revellinho Thanks for your reply. Sorry I was not sure if it meant mudguards only if its wet. I wouldn't have arrived to be confrontational and expected to ride with no mudguards if it was wet.

Colin
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marcusjb on March 19, 2014, 07:41:33 am
Pretty much what revellinho said.

There are very few mechanicals that will stop a bike from being able to limp to civilisation - you can scoot or freewheel on a bike that has had fairly catastrophic failures.

However, it is best to avoid mechanicals and a good regime of maintainence and replacing parts in a timely manner will help with this. 

As I said, there is very little that will stop a bike from being able to, at least, get to civilisation if not finish the ride.

It isn't something I worry about overly. I have never had a significant mechanical on a ride, but I do carry a reasonable selection of spares that would get me out of most issues. At minimum you want a couple of tubes (pump and levers) and some form of multi tool. Chain links are also useful (I have never needed one myself, but have saved other people's rides with them).

If some dramatic mechanical happened that really was ride ending, there is always going to be a way to sort things out and get back home. It may involve vast expense (taxi etc.) or lots of time, or both.  But that is life.

It isn't worth worrying about too much unless you are getting regular issues, in which case, you need to look at the kit you are using and find something more suited to the purpose.

Mudguards - well, if the org asks for them, then do try and use them. If you don't have them, then just be sensible - if you have a filthy, wet behind, don't sit down in the cafe etc. 
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on March 19, 2014, 08:51:37 am
The storm of replies has perhaps been fended off by those two excellent ones!

Enjoy the rides, get or do not get addicted (personal choice), and here's wishing you total freedom from the "what on earth am I doing this for??" feeling!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Reg.T on March 19, 2014, 12:06:26 pm
Wish I'd known I had a choice about whether to get addicted. ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Colin. on March 19, 2014, 04:26:58 pm
Thank you all for your replies.

I do carry 2 tubes, puncture repair kit, 2 repair links, 2 multi tools and pliers for the repair links ( I found I couldn't use the links with just my fingers ). I am trying to learn to maintain and repair as much as I can on the bike as I would like to become as self sufficient as I can.

Thanks Again

Colin
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Rupert on March 20, 2014, 11:15:56 am
Hello to everyone.

I'm quite new to this 'Audax' thing and due to various commitments, have been looking at riding a couple of 200k permanent rides, however I notice that many of these are well over 200k.

 I have been informed that when the permanent organiser plans the route, he or she needs to plot the shortest possible route between control points, but if the route supplied is then 220k for example, what is to stop the entrant from simply collecting the start receipt and then driving 10k and riding from there and back to there which totals 200k and then driving back to the official finish point to collect the required receipt, especially if the first and last part of the ride are the same.

I know that this goes against the rules but.........Would'nt it be better if the AUK Rules were changed a little to include the line 'Riders must not deviate from the official (supplied) route'.

Organisers could then have events that were not massively over distance and a 200k would be just that.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Revellinho on March 20, 2014, 11:32:30 am
call the police!!! :o :o :o
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marcusjb on March 20, 2014, 11:34:02 am
And do us out of 20km of fine riding?

Heck - I have DIYs that are 50km over-distance - more miles, more smiles. 
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fboab on March 20, 2014, 11:36:39 am
Rupert, would you like fries with these:
(http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/food-drink-can-can_of_worms-worms-can_openers-looking-cgr0236l.jpg)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on March 20, 2014, 12:22:16 pm
Hello Rupert,

There is plenty of scope to cheat but riders generally don't because there is little to be gained and plenty to be lost.

Routes are typically over distance by 5-10km/30 minutes saddle time, and thats not generally perceived as an issue (unless you're cold, wet and hungry, obvs),

The minimum distance approach means that if riders do abandon the routesheet by the time they get home they will have at least covered the event category distance whereas the mandatory route approach will tend to offer scope to undercut the event category distance, and that will never do. 

I hope that answers your question. Welcome aboard!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on March 20, 2014, 05:34:27 pm
My bike is parked outside the patio doors - I thus have a clear view of my bright red AUK mudguard sticker. With the new* logo, viewed from this odd angle, it looks quite like the Playboy bunny logo - and thus my mudguard looks a lot like those trrrrrucker mudflaps with naked bond-girl silhouette.

Can the team confirm:
Is this deliberate?
Will chicks dig it?
Will the upcoming logo revamp maintain this useful benefit?



*clearly not new enough, if we're getting it changed imminently; but there you go ...
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on March 20, 2014, 10:18:31 pm
My bike is parked outside the patio doors - I thus have a clear view of my bright red AUK mudguard sticker. With the new* logo, viewed from this odd angle, it looks quite like the Playboy bunny logo - and thus my mudguard looks a lot like those trrrrrucker mudflaps with naked bond-girl silhouette.

Can the team confirm:
Is this deliberate?
Nothing is deliberate in Audax. Each issue is given 38 pages of discussion on the internet followed by 12 hours at AGM and the conclusion is "Ah bollocks let's sort this out later."
Quote
Will chicks dig it?
Yes, but only if they dig odd angles.
Quote
Will the upcoming logo revamp maintain this useful benefit?
Only Audaxers could be interested in "stickers with benefits".
 :D



*clearly not new enough, if we're getting it changed imminently; but there you go ...
[/quote]
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: folkdevil on April 02, 2014, 12:57:58 am
What would the panel suggest as the 600 (in England/Wales) with the most support/tlc at controls? I'm pretty sure an X-rated one as my first 600 would be a bad idea. I'm thinking June/July (time to ride at least another 300 and 400 before taking on the 600.) Thanks.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Henry on April 02, 2014, 08:47:14 am
Hey, the Kernow and South West may be a bit early for your schedule, but it is a cracker. TLC-wise if things are the same as last year, Ian gets a hall at Penzance, filled with literally some of the best food (and service) known to mankind. And a church hall at Bude which is visited twice, sleep stop the second time. Again filled with fine food. I only do these rides for the food, but the views etc. are alright on this one too.

Haven't done any of the later 600's yet to comment on.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Deano on April 02, 2014, 08:49:45 am
Sleepy's planning two village hall stops for York-Langholm-York. I'll be at one of 'em :D

Crinkly cake may also be on offer (though that's not for me to say).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on April 02, 2014, 08:50:10 am
Windsor-Chester-Windsor seems like the best fit, if a little later than you'd prefer.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on April 02, 2014, 09:11:47 am
BCM has very good control TLC. May have similar ascent to K+SW, but a lot less "hilly".
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: folkdevil on April 02, 2014, 09:55:29 am
Thank you all very much for the hints. Will ponder... :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: caerau on April 02, 2014, 10:00:16 pm
On a counterpoint Folkdevil, the K&SW will kill you if you're on fixed and a big guy by all accounts.


X-rated isn't that bad.  You can easily stop at pubs to get a good meal in.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Veloman on April 02, 2014, 10:17:32 pm
If it is your first 600 then one with 0 AAA might be wise and one that has definite sleeping arrangements.

East and West Coast 600 on 14 June looks ideal.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wallace on April 10, 2014, 09:03:28 am
I'm having problems "uploading" my routes to garmin-connect. The uploading cycle just goes on and on, nothing uploads to the "dashboard".

Has anyone had this problem? Anyone have a solution to this?

I have added new tracks to the device but it will not upload these either. I have also updated the software from garmin-express, with no joy.

The garmin is an etrex 30, its a few months old...

Thanks!

W.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fuaran on April 10, 2014, 12:35:04 pm
Try a manual upload, and pick the correct GPX file. Probably Garmin/GPX/Current.gpx
In my experience, this is much more reliable.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wallace on April 10, 2014, 02:56:01 pm
Try a manual upload, and pick the correct GPX file. Probably Garmin/GPX/Current.gpx
In my experience, this is much more reliable.

Tried uploading manually Fauran with "current" GPX file, still no joy... However, its been an interesting afternoon trying to problem solve. I'll restore to factory setting and take the bike for a spin tonight and then try another upload with a new file.

Cheers,

W.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wallace on April 10, 2014, 09:05:05 pm
Still no joy uploading the files... I'll keep at it... Can't understand, the last 30 tracks have all uploaded, it does not make much sense!!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on April 11, 2014, 12:02:24 am
Wallace

YHM

Mikey

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wallace on April 11, 2014, 07:00:35 am
Wallace

YHM

Mikey

 ;D ;D ;D

Super!

W.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wallace on April 12, 2014, 05:11:35 pm
Discussions on the Garmin forum suggest this problem of "uploading" files is widespread. Apparently garmin are updating Garmin Connect, hence the problem...

I wait... along with many others...  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: citoyen on April 14, 2014, 11:13:54 pm
Is 84km too long between controls on a DIY by GPS perm?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Martin on April 14, 2014, 11:20:16 pm
Is 84km too long between controls on a DIY by GPS perm?

in theory yes

in practice no as we can see exactly the route taken. But how much time does it take (in milliseconds) to insert an extra control on a GPS DIY?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: citoyen on April 14, 2014, 11:27:37 pm
Indeed - it's easy enough to insert another control. Just wasn't sure if I needed to.

But since it is easy, I shall do so.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: citoyen on April 14, 2014, 11:41:26 pm
By the way, Martin, the route I'm planning uses East Grinstead as a control. What's the A264 like (heading east towards Tonbridge)?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on April 15, 2014, 07:02:35 pm
Discussions on the Garmin forum suggest this problem of "uploading" files is widespread. Apparently garmin are updating Garmin Connect, hence the problem...

I wait... along with many others...  :facepalm:

Wallace

Your file is repaired and uploads just fine now - YHM on your supplied email !!!

See my post https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=81625.0 (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=81625.0)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: caerau on April 15, 2014, 11:54:22 pm
My suggestion would be to stop using garmin connect.  It's possibly the worst software out there for this sort of thing.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wallace on April 16, 2014, 10:25:38 am
Discussions on the Garmin forum suggest this problem of "uploading" files is widespread. Apparently garmin are updating Garmin Connect, hence the problem...

I wait... along with many others...  :facepalm:

Wallace

Your file is repaired and uploads just fine now - YHM on your supplied email !!!

See my post https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=81625.0 (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=81625.0)

Mikey,

Thanks for this, appreciated... I have checked out the link (above) also, maybe its my turn soon to get an email from Garmin to switch over... Let's see...

Cheers,  :thumbsup:

W.

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wallace on April 16, 2014, 10:26:33 am
My suggestion would be to stop using garmin connect.  It's possibly the worst software out there for this sort of thing.

Could you suggest other software formats?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: caerau on April 16, 2014, 10:48:58 am
Map my ride, strava, ridewithgps - all are way better than garmin connect for both uploading files and looking at your personal records/achievements/progress.
It's all just presented so much better and easier on the eye.
Having said that I've recently had an accident and not been on the bike for a week and a half.  I did notice that garmin connect seemed to have changed their site a bit last time I looked (when I uploaded the offending ride) - maybe it's improved in the last week or two.



I wouldn't even dream of constructing a route with garmin's software.  Ridewithgps, bikehike, bikeroutetoaster are all much much better.





Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on April 16, 2014, 12:05:20 pm


I wouldn't even dream of constructing a route with garmin's software.  Ridewithgps, bikehike, bikeroutetoaster are all much much better.

+ 1


The new G-C is more comprehensive.

With all those years on it, changing now would be the worse of two weevils !!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wallace on April 16, 2014, 01:32:49 pm
Map my ride, strava, ridewithgps - all are way better than garmin connect for both uploading files and looking at your personal records/achievements/progress.
It's all just presented so much better and easier on the eye.
Having said that I've recently had an accident and not been on the bike for a week and a half.  I did notice that garmin connect seemed to have changed their site a bit last time I looked (when I uploaded the offending ride) - maybe it's improved in the last week or two.



I wouldn't even dream of constructing a route with garmin's software.  Ridewithgps, bikehike, bikeroutetoaster are all much much better.

Thanks... I'll have a look into them... Garmin connect still not running after checking today...

Hope you get over your injury soon...

Cheers,

W.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: caerau on April 16, 2014, 03:45:30 pm
Thanks and you're welcome :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ivan on April 21, 2014, 08:29:02 am
Can I ride a DIY longer than 1000km, say 1400km? Or do I have to split it in two 700km rides, around a planned sleep stop, which would decrease the overall time allowed to do it (unless I stop for 11 hours)?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marcusjb on April 21, 2014, 08:45:36 am
You can ride a DIY of any length.

Bottom speed would be 12kph for that distance.

You can split it into 2*700 (minimum speed 13.5) and rest between the two legs. But it wouldn't be quite as audacious!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on April 21, 2014, 09:06:56 am
Can you find another 100k of nice roads?

Cos then you could split it into 600+400+300+200 rides. A back-to-back SR would be quite cool.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ivan on April 21, 2014, 09:16:35 am
You can ride a DIY of any length.

Bottom speed would be 12kph for that distance.

You can split it into 2*700 (minimum speed 13.5) and rest between the two legs. But it wouldn't be quite as audacious!

Thanks, Marcus. Why then does http://www.aukweb.net/diy/routes/ say "We validate rides at 50km, 100km, 150km, 200km, then at 100km intervals up to 1000km."? There doesn't seem to be diy perm events listed for rides over 1000 on http://www.aukweb.net/perms/
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marcusjb on April 21, 2014, 09:36:34 am
Interesting!

It has been done (marcus (the other REALLY crazy one) did a DIY of well over 2000km and there are perms (end to end etc.) over that distance).

PM manotea as he is your man for this stuff.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on April 21, 2014, 10:29:36 am
Why then does http://www.aukweb.net/diy/routes/ say "We validate rides at 50km, 100km, 150km, 200km, then at 100km intervals up to 1000km."?
I don't know.

Let us know when you find out.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on April 21, 2014, 10:30:18 am
Yes, interesting, and one of those things we need to get clarified, probably!

It has been done (marcus (the other REALLY crazy one) did a DIY of well over 2000km.

I think he had to set it up as an "ordinary" Permanent, rather than a DIY. (See 2011 Results for Marcus Y.)
If he'd entered it as a DIY "1000", the longest option available on the online entry form, he could have ridden his whole entered 3400 km (shortest), but would have had to average 13.33km/hour for the counting distance, and would have scored a mere 10 points.

On the paper entry form though, you can presumably enter for any multiple of 100km, including 700 and 2000, etc.:

http://www.aukweb.net/users/common_files/Handbook/entry-form.pdf

On the website, at

http://www.aukweb.net/diy/traditional/

it says

"We validate rides at 50km, 100km, 150km, 200km, then at 100km intervals up to 1000km."

Elsewhere no limit is mentioned:

Handbook:
9.6.1
Distances are registered and validated in increments of 100 km from 200km upwards.
9.6.2
The standard distances are 200, 300, 400, 600 and 1,000 km.

On speeds:

9.7.1
The minimum speeds are:
for events registered as 200 to 600 km – set by the organiser within the range 14.3 to 15 kph;
for events registered as 700 to 1200 km - 13⅓kph;
for events registered as 1300 to 1800 km - 12 kph;
for events registered as 1900 to 2400 km - 10 kph; and
for events registered as 2500 km and over - 8⅓kph.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: arabella on April 21, 2014, 09:51:42 pm
Interesting!

It has been done (marcus (the other REALLY crazy one) did a DIY of well over 2000km and there are perms (end to end etc.) over that distance).

PM manotea as he is your man for this stuff.
There are set DIYs of up to x000 km. 
After that not enough people do them I think.  Thus when "marcus (the other REALLY crazy one)" did his extravaganza of 3400 (iirc) km it got its own event name (http://aukweb.net/results/archive/2011/listevent/?Ride=YEO01) etc so it could be recorded.
Rich Forrest did the paperwork at the time fwiw.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ivan on April 21, 2014, 10:07:33 pm
So if I come up with a good 1400km route, I should maybe consider turning it into a proper perm? This is interesting indeed, need to think about this some more, but I guess that would rule out validation via GPX - that would need to be done as a DIY?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Hummers on April 22, 2014, 08:37:38 am
So if I come up with a good 1400km route, I should maybe consider turning it into a proper perm? This is interesting indeed, need to think about this some more, but I guess that would rule out validation via GPX - that would need to be done as a DIY?

I created a new perm last year with AAA points - Hummers Lumpy End 2 End (1900k). Validation was via receipts at points/proof of presence along the route sent to John Ward whilst prior route AAA approval was via a GPX track sent to Steve Snook. I don't have a GPS so AAA validation also relied on receipts.

With respect to the planning, I would advise you to plan route check points and your latest arrival time based on your minimum speeds throughout the ride. Ours was 10kph which whilst generous, meant we had to put in over 500k in the first two days to get the time in for sleep at a reasonable time of the night.

With respect to validation, I would advise you not to rely on GPS tracks alone. Should your unit fail, you will have no proof of presence and will be buggered  :'(

Good luck.

H
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ian H on April 22, 2014, 10:02:05 am
... and will be buggered
H
Is this a new AUK reg?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ivan on April 22, 2014, 10:37:16 am
Thanks for all the suggestions & help so far, Manotea has confirmed that he can handle DIYs over 1000km - his entry form (http://events.paudax.com/content/diy-perms-entry-form) has actually got '1000km+' in the distance selection list.

Next to figure out how to validate it as there are some long stretches with nowhere to get a receipt and don't really fancy relying on a gps - may have to resort to timestamped photos of road signs, etc.

Ivan
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wobbly on April 22, 2014, 12:22:26 pm
... and will be buggered
H
Is this a new AUK reg?


I think it's merely a guideline.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mmmmartin on April 22, 2014, 08:22:22 pm
... and will be buggered
H
Is this a new AUK reg?


I think it's merely a guideline.
Surely it would be a decision left entirely at the organiser's discretion?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: chilipapa on April 27, 2014, 11:25:18 pm
Postal events.

Does the organiser send you a Brevet card to return your proof of passage bits and pieces? Or even on postal events only is there someone at the start handing them out?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on April 28, 2014, 06:54:00 am
If it's a calendar event - where all riders start together - the org will indeed hand out cards at the start.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on April 28, 2014, 06:57:25 am
I have always wondered the difference between this and a group perm?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on April 28, 2014, 07:17:02 am
Group Perm won't have appeared on the calendar, so arrangeable at short(ish) notice? (Very short notice if you're confident about your own measurement of the counting distance for a DIY.)


Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: The Bonk on May 12, 2014, 08:17:34 am


Do Perms count towards an SR Series?

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on May 12, 2014, 08:28:35 am
Yes for AUK, no for ACP.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: The Bonk on May 12, 2014, 08:31:41 am

Thanks. The season runs - October 1st to September 30th?

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on May 12, 2014, 08:47:10 am
Yes. Inclusive.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: The Bonk on May 12, 2014, 08:56:53 am
Yes. Inclusive.

Great, thanks.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fungus on June 22, 2014, 07:37:30 pm
What's the time limit for returning completed diy cards?  I think I've seen 2 weeks some where or other. 

Thanks!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on June 22, 2014, 08:12:38 pm
On the printed brevet cards it does say "within 14 days".
(Maybe it's enshrined in the Handbook also?)
I wouldn't think validation would be likely to be refused if you took longer, though. Especially if there was a good reason.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Phixie on June 23, 2014, 10:05:39 am
See Appendix 9.8.7 (on p55 of the current Handbook.

BR
RP
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Keeff on June 24, 2014, 04:32:34 pm
On the printed brevet cards it does say "within 14 days".
(Maybe it's enshrined in the Handbook also?)
I wouldn't think validation would be likely to be refused if you took longer, though. Especially if there was a good reason.

On a calendar event with a postal finish, validation would almost certainly be refused if the card arrived back late to the organiser.

Keith
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fungus on June 24, 2014, 11:07:55 pm
Did the ride Saturday & all sorted now thanks  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: chilipapa on July 17, 2014, 05:48:42 pm
The clues probably in the title, but fixed SR is it fixed only or will a singlespeed count?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 17, 2014, 06:37:49 pm
You are right; the name of the award defines the requirements.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jogler on July 17, 2014, 08:48:08 pm
Fixed : unequivocally aiui
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Phixie on July 17, 2014, 08:59:21 pm
Not only is it fixed, hub gears such as the Sturmey Archer S3X are not allowed (though you may use both cogs on double sided fixed hub.)

Regards,

RP
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: caerau on July 29, 2014, 05:22:30 pm
Anyone know what software AUK (or maybe just Steve Snook) uses to calculate climbing figures? It's annoying when I do a ride that my garmin and the various route design websites tells me qualifies for AAA points - then I get quoted a figure that is only about 2/3 good enough by those who validate.  I appreciate they're probably right and have a more accurate analysis - it'd just be nice to use it too if it isn't proprietary super-expensive software.


Cheers
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: RichForrest on July 30, 2014, 10:58:27 am
He used to count the contours on a map as all the gps devices record differently.
Not sure if this has changed since I stopped sending them to him.

Rich
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on July 30, 2014, 11:30:04 am
I went through a phase of contour counting to check what the various online programs were calculating.

It's very hard work, and the answers vary depending on which scale contour map you use, e.g. 1:25,000 or 1:50,000 etc

I'm certain that I've had answers from Steve S far quicker than he could possibly have done using contour counting, so I'm sure he has a program....
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: caerau on July 30, 2014, 12:28:58 pm
It's ok I had a private chat with TonyH about it - no easy software solution it seems - think it's some sort of software written by someone in AUK. Thanks anyway
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Kim on July 30, 2014, 12:35:05 pm
It's a sampling problem for which there is no 'correct' solution.  Which means for Audax purposes all you can hope for is consistency.

If the validators are using proprietary software (presumably for good reasons), that doesn't give you much option but to send them routes to test.  They presumably accepted that when they chose to use proprietary software.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: pizzicatooff on July 30, 2014, 03:24:41 pm
Anyone know what software AUK (or maybe just Steve Snook) uses to calculate climbing figures? It's annoying when I do a ride that my garmin and the various route design websites tells me qualifies for AAA points - then I get quoted a figure that is only about 2/3 good enough by those who validate.  I appreciate they're probably right and have a more accurate analysis - it'd just be nice to use it too if it isn't proprietary super-expensive software.

Cheers

This is discussed in a suitably concise and informative manner on Steve Snook's AAA website at http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/audaxaltitudeaward/gpstracklog.html
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on July 30, 2014, 04:21:33 pm

Steve's expertise, enthusiasm and energy are enormous assets to AUK. He does a superb job for us!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: rabbit on July 30, 2014, 04:27:19 pm

Steve's expertise, enthusiasm and energy are enormous assets to AUK. He does a superb job for us!

He is brilliant.  I wonder how he copes with the workload - like, our DIY perm guys have a specific area, but Steve seems to have to deal with the whole country!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on July 30, 2014, 07:36:06 pm

He is brilliant.  I wonder how he copes with the workload - like, our DIY perm guys have a specific area, but Steve seems to have to deal with the whole country!

Nope he doesn't!!!!  :demon:  Only the hilly bits  :smug: :smug: :smug:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: rabbit on July 31, 2014, 02:04:39 pm

He is brilliant.  I wonder how he copes with the workload - like, our DIY perm guys have a specific area, but Steve seems to have to deal with the whole country!

Nope he doesn't!!!!  :demon:  Only the hilly bits  :smug: :smug: :smug:

Heh heh, this is true!  ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: rabbit on July 31, 2014, 02:06:22 pm
[badge geek]Another Audax question - why is there no badge for the Randonneur 2,500? [/badge geek]
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on July 31, 2014, 10:01:43 pm
[badge geek]Another Audax question - why is there no badge for the Randonneur 2,500? [/badge geek]

Or the R 20,000

Or indeed the, soon to be, R 30,000  :smug:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 31, 2014, 10:38:21 pm
The Randonneur 2500 is a fairly new award and (I guess) nobody has submitted a design for consideration yet.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: rabbit on August 01, 2014, 09:02:41 pm
The Randonneur 2500 is a fairly new award and (I guess) nobody has submitted a design for consideration yet.

Oh - so, say I don't do another one again in another year, does that mean I'll never get a badge?   :(

I only do this stuff for the badges  :P

Does this also explain why the Randonneur 2500 isn't shown on the member 'awards' page like the brevet series and R1000 or R5000?

Interesting why there was even an award created, who dreams this stuff up?  Not that I am complaining, more badges=better IMHO, but some of the stuff seems so random.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on August 01, 2014, 09:09:58 pm
The medals/ badges for many awards can be claimed in the years subsequent to a rider qualifying for them.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: rabbit on August 01, 2014, 09:18:05 pm
The medals/ badges for many awards can be claimed in the years subsequent to a rider qualifying for them.

Ah that's good. 

Another question, apologies to anyone fed up with my badge questions!

If, say, you have an SR, can the same rides, or some of the same rides also count to, for example, an AAASR, or a WelshSR? 
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on August 01, 2014, 09:18:44 pm
Yes
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jzhowie on August 11, 2014, 09:32:57 pm
I'm sure its been asked before, and common knowledge.

But.... when is the calendar announced? Particularly the location and date of the National 400.

I'm presuming end of September?

Cheers!
Title: Re: Random audax questions BRM
Post by: Cycling Daddy on August 14, 2014, 06:18:15 am
Hi
How do you know which of your results are 'BRM'?  If one was thinking of PBP nest year would you have to 'do' anything to get a possible BRM event seen so that you could apply earlier rather than later?? 

BTW BR/BRM seems to be one of the more arcane parts of Audaxing almost as hard as working out what Barley was used for.
L
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on August 14, 2014, 06:56:43 am

But.... when is the calendar announced? Particularly the location and date of the National 400.

I'm presuming end of September?
I believe its a creeping, amorphous process. Events can change at the last minute, but are usually published 6 months or more ahead.
BRMs are a bit stricter - especially PBP qualifiers - but in general their is no strict cutoff. Events for next August,say, may not appear before Christmas.

I think.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jsabine on August 14, 2014, 07:43:00 am
AFAICT there's a hard cutoff for submission of BRM events (required for PBP qualification) in September/October, in order to get them onto the ACP calendar. The AUK calendar seems more fluid; I think that in another thread, HK has hinted that details of the National 400 can be expected closer to Xmas.

How do you know which of your results are 'BRM'?  If one was thinking of PBP nest year would you have to 'do' anything to get a possible BRM event seen so that you could apply earlier rather than later?? 

If you look at your individual rider record on the AUK website, the first column is for ACP brevet numbers. If you have one there - and having ridden the National 400 you will get one for that - you can pre register for PBP.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cycling Daddy on August 14, 2014, 10:58:09 am


How do you know which of your results are 'BRM'?  If one was thinking of PBP nest year would you have to 'do' anything to get a possible BRM event seen so that you could apply earlier rather than later?? 

If you look at your individual rider record on the AUK website, the first column is for ACP brevet numbers. If you have one there - and having ridden the National 400 you will get one for that - you can pre register for PBP.

Hmm no ACP brevet against the National 400 on my results???
L
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on August 14, 2014, 11:27:23 am
ACP has a slower turnaround time than AUK, reasonable considering it is effectively another 'layer' on top of AUK procedures.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jsabine on August 14, 2014, 01:46:37 pm


How do you know which of your results are 'BRM'?  If one was thinking of PBP nest year would you have to 'do' anything to get a possible BRM event seen so that you could apply earlier rather than later?? 

If you look at your individual rider record on the AUK website, the first column is for ACP brevet numbers. If you have one there - and having ridden the National 400 you will get one for that - you can pre register for PBP.

Hmm no ACP brevet against the National 400 on my results???
L

Yep, you *will* get one ...

As LWaB says, it's another layer of admin, and IM(very limited)E, it seems to take up to about six or eight weeks for the number to turn up. When you get your brevet card back in the post, it'll have an extra sticker on the back.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: caerau on August 14, 2014, 06:23:12 pm
Yeah I got what I though was a route sheet in the post for the Tregaron Dragon the other day - turned out to be my ACP accredited Brevet Card from the Bryan Chapman Memoiral back in May!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: AlexM on August 29, 2014, 01:56:26 pm
I've just begun to get back into cycling (and Audaxing) after a gap of about 13 years, and wanted to check out a couple of things:

AAA points - In the past I had an AAA card that was validated separately to the rides - is this still the case or are AAA points now automatically totalled online?

From what I've been reading here and in Arrivee it seems that now you just have to ride from control to conrol and that the routsheet is advisory rather than compulsory.  Whilst I have little desire to deviate from the routsheets, does this mean that secret controls are a thing of the past?

Cheers
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on August 29, 2014, 04:45:50 pm
Secret controls are virtually dead within AUK with possibly only a couple of events each year incorporating them. If they will occur during an event, there must be a space for them on the brevet card. No space on the card, no secret control.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: rabbit on September 02, 2014, 10:00:39 am
Mileater diaries - do they run audax year October-September, or January-December?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on September 02, 2014, 10:19:22 am
Calendar year
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: dalesman on September 15, 2014, 04:31:23 pm
As a returning cyclist at the grand old age of 56 and been of the bike for 12 years.

In the past I have raced, time trialled, cx plus bit Mtb. But Audax is some I read about over the years and fancy giving it a go in 2015.

So what do I look for in a bike? before go and spend my hard earned penny's.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cycling Daddy on September 15, 2014, 05:02:01 pm
Comfort...
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marcusjb on September 15, 2014, 05:03:49 pm
So what do I look for in a bike? before go and spend my hard earned penny's.

Comfortable.

That's about it really.

Now, the challenge is that one rider's comfy bike is another rider's boneshaker.

I think there's only one trend that pervades almost all machinery that you're likely to encounter in Audax and that's slightly wider tyres than normal, and even 'normal' is slowly changing from 23mm tyres to more 25mm, and the range of frames with suitable clearance is growing all the time now.  25 and 28mm are very common on bikes you will see on Audax rides, no matter whether they are steel tourers or the latest carbon bling.

But you will see everything made in every material possible - none is the right answer for everyone. 

Edit - X-post with Cycling Daddy!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Old Git on September 15, 2014, 05:07:34 pm
A higher front end than your race /TT bike to take the strain
Off of your back for all the hours you will spend on it :)
A good saddle for the same reason.. And remember to take your sense of humour with you, I forgot mine last weekend.   Good luck :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on September 15, 2014, 05:45:11 pm
I'd avoid  a bike that prevented me averaging 14.3kph, no matter how comfortable.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cycling Daddy on September 15, 2014, 10:13:03 pm
I'd avoid  a bike that prevented me averaging 14.3kph, no matter how comfortable.
True but that would be an extreme.  wobbly made a very good showing on a Pashley at the national 400 even with the bottom gear out of action.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on September 16, 2014, 07:02:39 am
I'd avoid  a bike that prevented me averaging 14.3kph, no matter how comfortable.
True but that would be an extreme.  wobbly made a very good showing on a Pashley at the national 400 even with the bottom gear out of action.
Its not extreme at all! I've finished several events on the limit or OOT -I have no doubt that I would have been slower on a Pash, no matter how wonderfully comfortable they are.

Others are in the same boat.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: dalesman on September 16, 2014, 10:27:13 am
So what do I look for in a bike? before go and spend my hard earned penny's.

Comfortable.

That's about it really.

Now, the challenge is that one rider's comfy bike is another rider's boneshaker.

I think there's only one trend that pervades almost all machinery that you're likely to encounter in Audax and that's slightly wider tyres than normal, and even 'normal' is slowly changing from 23mm tyres to more 25mm, and the range of frames with suitable clearance is growing all the time now.  25 and 28mm are very common on bikes you will see on Audax rides, no matter whether they are steel tourers or the latest carbon bling.

But you will see everything made in every material possible - none is the right answer for everyone. 

Edit - X-post with Cycling Daddy!


Can you advise on a bike I could buy of the peg to get me started.

Most bike's these day's in the local shops stop only bikes you can not fit proper mud guards and very limited options for tyre clearance.

 I have competed in the past in racing, TT and MTB at the age of 56 I am looking for a new challenge.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marcusjb on September 16, 2014, 10:34:19 am
I wouldn't want to open the can of worms by making a recommendation. I know nothing of your riding style, physiology etc.

My best advice would be turn up on whatever you have at the moment, and see what works for you and your style.

I would never advise buying a specific bike to try some new branch of cycling. Someone new to TTs would not likely be best served by going and spending a load of money on a TT bike before their first attempt. Turn up on what you have and start thinking from there as to what you want from a bike.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Reg.T on September 16, 2014, 01:09:32 pm
+1
Start with what you have, look at what other people have, and find out what works and doesn't for you - wheels/tyres, geometry, handling, luggage, lighting.....

It'll all depend on you and where you find you want to go with it e.g.  a few summer daylight 100s-200s, or round the year with multi-day and overnight events; hilly or flat; travel light or prepared for the worst; ...
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: dalesman on September 16, 2014, 02:11:19 pm
+1
Start with what you have, look at what other people have, and find out what works and doesn't for you - wheels/tyres, geometry, handling, luggage, lighting.....

It'll all depend on you and where you find you want to go with it e.g.  a few summer daylight 100s-200s, or round the year with multi-day and overnight events; hilly or flat; travel light or prepared for the worst; ...

Will be all year round, hilly not a problem I live between Swale and Wensleydale so used to a few hills.

Looking at various sites most of the bikes advertised as Audax bikes seem to be Reynolds 520 tubed frames.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hellymedic on September 16, 2014, 06:11:05 pm
Nobody else has yet suggested the importance of reliability as well as comfort.
You really would prefer not to practise your Mechanical Skilz in a biblical storm on Upper Hurricanedale at 3am.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on September 16, 2014, 07:37:13 pm
Nobody else has yet suggested the importance of reliability as well as comfort.
You really would prefer not to practise your Mechanical Skilz in a biblical storm on Upper Hurricanedale at 3am.
Good point.

(I cannot think how to add to this without lighting yet another blue touch-paper ... )
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on September 16, 2014, 07:44:42 pm
Mr Dalesman:
You might findthe topic about "Ravens" covers a lot of the usual suspects.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Revellinho on September 16, 2014, 09:56:17 pm
Ghyllside in Ambleside will make you up a nice audax bike, though not 'off the peg'.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Martin on September 16, 2014, 10:27:32 pm
there is no ideal Audax bike! AUK's will tell you your bottom will fall off if you ride anything that's not steel but there are very few non Alu / Carbon frames on PBP; I've never ridden an AUK event on a steel bike. My newest one cost all of £349 and with the addition of a Rolls saddle it's done oodles of rides both here and overseas hilly flat you name it*

don't believe the hype; it's not about the bike  :thumbsup:

* one reason I'm so happy riding it is it has 2 spare gear hangers; bust one of them without a spare and no amount of ££££ will get you home  ;)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hellymedic on September 16, 2014, 11:11:25 pm
I rode Audax or similar events on each bike in my stable one year.
I think I had six bikes.

Anything comfortable and reliable will do. Make sure you can fix problems and take suitable tools.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Mike Conway on September 25, 2014, 11:20:30 am
How do I register my new club to get my AUK points for 2015? They don't exist on the list of clubs under my membership details.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on September 26, 2014, 08:24:59 am
Mike the Membership Sec may be able to help.  Also check the club isn't already listed under an alias - eg CC Oakley instead of Oakley CC, etc.

Nobody else has yet suggested the importance of reliability as well as comfort.

A very good point and I would add - enjoyment.  The bike has to be one that it gives you pleasure to ride (which is not necessarily the same thing as 'comfortable'). 
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Mike Conway on September 26, 2014, 01:07:40 pm
Cheers - Mike added it.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on October 03, 2014, 11:07:03 am
Just read this on road.cc:
Quote
Ok, so it's technically an audax bike, but what is a sportive but an audax without the cake?
:D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on October 03, 2014, 08:31:08 pm
Just read this on road.cc:
Quote
Ok, so it's technically an audax bike, but what is a sportive but an audax without the cake?
:D

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: citoyen on October 04, 2014, 05:23:34 pm
* one reason I'm so happy riding it is it has 2 spare gear hangers; bust one of them without a spare and no amount of ££££ will get you home  ;)


Tbh, I can't imagine gear hangers fail very often, except in a crash - in which case you might have other reasons for not continuing. I've certainly never felt the need to carry a spare one on an audax.

I have, however, had a rear mech disintegrate on me mid-ride. I just shortened the chain and completed the ride singlespeed.

And anyway you can always avoid the risk of rear mech and/or hanger failure by riding fixed. ;)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on October 10, 2014, 07:07:26 pm
Ok, serious question: Why does the event calendar run October-September but the membership year January-December?
And when it says "new members joining late in the year will be subscribed until the end of the following year" what does that actually mean in practice? When does it become "late"?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Reg.T on October 10, 2014, 09:25:55 pm
Sorry Cudzo, that information is only available to members. You'll need to join to find out.  ;D
Go on, you know you want to....
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fuaran on October 10, 2014, 09:46:13 pm
Ok, serious question: Why does the event calendar run October-September but the membership year January-December?
It seems the event year is mostly so points and awards etc can be worked out ahead of the AGM in November. Note the event year used to be November-October, it changed a couple of years ago.
The membership year is probably just because it keeps things simple, no need to change it.

Quote
And when it says "new members joining late in the year will be subscribed until the end of the following year" what does that actually mean in practice? When does it become "late"?
From 1st September. See the regulations here: http://www.aukweb.net/official/aukregs/
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on October 13, 2014, 11:34:31 am
Sorry Cudzo, that information is only available to members. You'll need to join to find out.  ;D
Go on, you know you want to....
But that would mean associating with disreputable types like you.
Oh, hang on...
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Bairdy on October 13, 2014, 08:36:15 pm
Sorry Cudzo, that information is only available to members. You'll need to join to find out.  ;D
Go on, you know you want to....
But that would mean associating with disreputable types like you.
Oh, hang on...

You're not a member? :o
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on October 14, 2014, 10:52:03 am
Sorry Cudzo, that information is only available to members. You'll need to join to find out.  ;D
Go on, you know you want to....
But that would mean associating with disreputable types like you.
Oh, hang on...

You're not a member? :o
Have you not heard Neil's words of wisdom on this point?  ;)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: oliveriles on October 30, 2014, 11:50:26 am
I did my first audax a few weeks back.

My brevet card was stamped at the end of the event and handed back to me.  The organiser recorded some details from it on a sheet of paper.

How does my ride get to be recorded on the audax website? Do I need to do something with my brevet cRd?

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fboab on October 30, 2014, 12:31:45 pm
You shouldn't have to do anything, the organiser submits the validation details to the recorder.
If it hasn't happened- ie if the ride is up on the results but you're not listed there, ask the recorder.
Don't forget the season has turned and you might be there on last year's results rather than this year's if your ride was before 1st October.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jsabine on October 30, 2014, 06:46:33 pm
Note also that while your name will appear in the event results list whether or not you're an AUK member, if you're a non-member it'll be down at the bottom of the list and you'll only be able to access a personalised listing of all your rides if you've joined up.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: oliveriles on November 02, 2014, 01:24:34 pm
Ok thanks, looks like the event hasn't been uploaded by the organiser yet.  Not sure why it's taking over a month, sure he will get around to it.

Another question, I did the minehead 100 last month, I see it carries zero points for the club and CTC totals, why is it not worth one point.

Thanks,
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on November 02, 2014, 01:36:24 pm
200km (and longer) events are Brevet Randonneur and are worth 'points'. Shorter events are Brevet Popular and worth no points. There are historical reasons for why 200+km brevets are considered long distance events.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: aidan.f on November 03, 2014, 10:22:15 pm
Quote
Ok thanks, looks like the event hasn't been uploaded by the organiser yet.  Not sure why it's taking over a month, sure he will get around to it.
It  is  a  three  stage  process, the organiser submits the results, (by s-mail),  validation secs validate, and  the  recorder records on the website. This can all take a while. If  its a  BRM event, which yours was not, because you  got your card  back on the day,  cards  have to also go to Paris during  this process,
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Somnolent on November 06, 2014, 06:05:58 pm
ACP are instituting a new process for BRMs this season.  It has the potential to speed things somewhat.

If an organiser sends in his results very promptly and if both validation sec and the recorder are sat waitng by their computers instead of out riding their bikes, and if the new automated ACP process works as intended for BRMs, then the whole thing could, in theory, be complete on the AUK website in about a week. 

That's an awful lot of IFs though, and in reality I doubt you'll see many approach that sort of speed.

Getting the cards back to the riders will always take a little longer due to the necessary reliance on snail-mail from validation sec to organiser and from organiser to rider.

Personally I rather like it when a card comes back months later.... memories of any pain have faded and I only think "gosh - that was fun ride wasn't it, nice to be reminded of it".   And I'm not saying that because I'm an actor in the process (honest!)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: vorsprung on November 06, 2014, 09:11:45 pm
Ok thanks, looks like the event hasn't been uploaded by the organiser yet.  Not sure why it's taking over a month, sure he will get around to it.

Another question, I did the minehead 100 last month, I see it carries zero points for the club and CTC totals, why is it not worth one point.

Thanks,

it's only 100km so it's not long distance.  Therefore it's not worth any points.  Although, having done a Minehead 100 before you should (morally)  get AAA points for it even if it is not registered or not actually featuring enough ascent
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on November 09, 2014, 05:57:34 pm
If an organiser sends in his results very promptly and if both validation sec and the recorder are sat waitng by their computers instead of out riding their bikes, and if the new automated ACP process works as intended for BRMs, then the whole thing could, in theory, be complete on the AUK website in about a week. 

That's an awful lot of IFs though, and in reality I doubt you'll see many approach that sort of speed.

In previous PBP years a turnround of sub 24h has been achieved, for the final qualifiers.  Though that was exceptional, 3-4 days has proved quite do-able provided of course that everyone involved is willing.

Change of topic
I've seen this question asked a few times, and I can't remember where, so I'll answer it here -
it is now possible, if you log in to your 'my details' page on the AUK website, to choose your ACP club allocation.  Later in the season you'll find it becomes locked and inaccessible (like it was this year, this is because ACP likes it that way) so you have a couple of months to do this, that's all.  You don't have to do it, but the option is there.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on November 09, 2014, 06:13:00 pm
Shame we can't correct misspelt club names.

(Anyone know a good web hacker?)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: oliveriles on November 10, 2014, 10:48:56 pm
Can anyone recommend a good quality head torch for night rides.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Marmitegeoff on November 11, 2014, 06:30:48 am
Can anyone recommend a good quality head torch for night rides.

I use one of these for sign posts etc.  http://www.amazon.co.uk/Petzl-E87-P2-MYO-Headlamp/dp/B004OYTOA0/ref=sr_1_13/278-7306005-9265733?ie=UTF8&qid=1415687214&sr=8-13&keywords=petzl+headlamp

and one of these on my arm to read route sheets garmin etc.  http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_20?url=search-alias%3Dsports&field-keywords=petzl%20zipka%20headlamp&sprefix=petzl+zipka+headlamp%2Caps%2C216

Both use AA or AAA batteries so spares can be carried.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: oliveriles on November 11, 2014, 08:35:23 am
Great, thanks very much.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: oliveriles on November 30, 2014, 06:59:08 pm
Can someone tell me what a 'free control' is please
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jsabine on November 30, 2014, 07:06:10 pm
Free choice of commercial control - pick whichever cafe, shop or petrol station you fancy in the relevant town, get a receipt, and you're away.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: oliveriles on November 30, 2014, 07:13:56 pm
Thanks
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: The Bonk on December 03, 2014, 07:35:31 pm

Do Brevet cards have a 'ride by date'? I ordered and planned to do some rides at the back end of last season, which didn't happen. I'm now looking at riding them in the new year.

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 03, 2014, 07:45:15 pm
It depends on the perm organiser. Some perm entries expire, some don't.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: The Bonk on December 03, 2014, 08:04:10 pm

OK thanks. I'll ask him.

Title: National 400
Post by: oliveriles on December 11, 2014, 10:26:33 pm
Can anyone tell we where and when, any link?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 11, 2014, 10:46:50 pm
For what?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: oliveriles on December 11, 2014, 10:53:28 pm
National 400 :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Deano on December 11, 2014, 10:54:01 pm
National 400?

There was something in the latest Arrivee (which I don't have to hand), but it's not in the calendar yet. Keep an eye out.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 11, 2014, 10:58:07 pm
Not listed in the AUK calendar, so I suspect a link will show up sometime after Christmas. It is still 2014, so a little early yet to be concerned about a summer 2015 event.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fuaran on December 11, 2014, 11:06:24 pm
25 July, starting from Dingwall, and heading north.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cycling Daddy on December 12, 2014, 07:28:21 am
Not listed in the AUK calendar, so I suspect a link will show up sometime after Christmas. It is still 2014, so a little early yet to be concerned about a summer 2015 event.
The National 400 and other events are likely to appear sometime in January.  The next deadline for submitting events is the start of January.  The National 400 sounds like  fantastic ride
L
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: oliveriles on December 14, 2014, 12:24:18 pm
For perm events, if due to say machical failure your average speed for the intermediary control points is below the overall permitted lower speed for the event in total of 14.3km, but by the final control you have made up the time so average overall is about the minimum speed / maximum time permitted will this be ok for sign off by th orangiser?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 14, 2014, 01:40:25 pm
Strictly speaking, no and some organisers will strictly follow the rule. On the other hand, many organisers are willing to take appropriate mitigating circumstances into account.

Plead your case and accept their decision with good grace, knowing that you have not strictly followed the rule.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: oliveriles on December 16, 2014, 09:49:49 am
Ok thanks for reply, fingers crossed
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Bobby on December 17, 2014, 07:12:04 am
I did a DIY200 by gps on 5th dec which Paul validated on 6th dec - it's not yet showing as a provisional result on the AUK website.  Do I just wait as everybody is clearly busy at this time of year?  How long should I wait? (Only interested as I wanted to claim RRTY2) :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jamesld8 on December 17, 2014, 07:41:45 am
25 July, starting from Dingwall, and heading north.

SO tempted by this  :thumbsup:---wonderful route up to Durness and back  ;D ---just unsure about travel time / round trip of 900 miles with very little a`leave available (PBP requiring significant portion thereof)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Mr Larrington on December 17, 2014, 10:26:00 am
For perm events, if due to say machical failure your average speed for the intermediary control points is below the overall permitted lower speed for the event in total of 14.3km, but by the final control you have made up the time so average overall is about the minimum speed / maximum time permitted will this be ok for sign off by th orangiser?

I had the opposite problem in 2007 on the Poor Student perm as the till receipt at the first control indicated that I had done some fantastickal average - about 45 km/h IIRC - for the first leg.  NikW did not quibble :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 17, 2014, 10:38:27 am
25 July, starting from Dingwall, and heading north.

SO tempted by this  :thumbsup:---wonderful route up to Durness and back  ;D ---just unsure about travel time / round trip of 900 miles with very little a`leave available (PBP requiring significant portion thereof)

There are cheap flights to Inverness from Luton and Gatwick. I often wonder how easy it would be to courier a bike to a depot for collection. If it was possible to pick up the bike at the railway station and leave it there, that would simplify matters.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: The Bonk on December 19, 2014, 07:24:22 pm

How much quicker do relevant rides fill up in a PBP year? I'm not dead set on doing PBP, however I would like to complete my first SR this season. I'm thinking I may as well go for BRM rides, giving me the option of PBP if I did decide I wanted to.

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hellymedic on December 19, 2014, 07:41:30 pm

How much quicker do relevant rides fill up in a PBP year? I'm not dead set on doing PBP, however I would like to complete my first SR this season. I'm thinking I may as well go for BRM rides, giving me the option of PBP if I did decide I wanted to.

I don't think this can be quantified; they do fill up more quickly and some people create headaches by pulling out of some rides once they have completed a ride of a specified length.

It's probably best, if possible, to plan and send your entries early.

Given the constraints of work and Real Life, this is not always easy.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: The Bonk on December 19, 2014, 07:55:56 pm

How much quicker do relevant rides fill up in a PBP year? I'm not dead set on doing PBP, however I would like to complete my first SR this season. I'm thinking I may as well go for BRM rides, giving me the option of PBP if I did decide I wanted to.

I don't think this can be quantified; they do fill up more quickly and some people create headaches by pulling out of some rides once they have completed a ride of a specified length.

It's probably best, if possible, to plan and send your entries early.

Given the constraints of work and Real Life, this is not always easy.

Thanks.
Yes, I realised it's a 'how long is a piece of string' question. I would just like to sit down and properly plan them after Christmas, instead of rushing now.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hellymedic on December 19, 2014, 08:24:37 pm

How much quicker do relevant rides fill up in a PBP year? I'm not dead set on doing PBP, however I would like to complete my first SR this season. I'm thinking I may as well go for BRM rides, giving me the option of PBP if I did decide I wanted to.

I don't think this can be quantified; they do fill up more quickly and some people create headaches by pulling out of some rides once they have completed a ride of a specified length.

It's probably best, if possible, to plan and send your entries early.

Given the constraints of work and Real Life, this is not always easy.

Thanks.
Yes, I realised it's a 'how long is a piece of string' question. I would just like to sit down and properly plan them after Christmas, instead of rushing now.

After Christmas should be fine.
After Easter would be stretching it.

Some organisers, bless them, run a waiting list to refill places released by DNS riders who have the courtesy to inform the organiser. Some don't; they are volunteers with lives and jobs, after all.

Some riders fail to inform an organiser when they decide to pull out, inconveniencing the organiser and depriving another rider of a place.  :(
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: citoyen on December 19, 2014, 10:37:12 pm
There are 16 PBP qualifier 600s spread over five consecutive weekends this year, which I'm sure is more than last time. I have a feeling there will be enough places to go round for those who want them, although certain rides will be more popular than others - BCM and WCW strike me as the ones most likely to fill up early.

This is all just guesswork though.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Malmesbury Monk on December 28, 2014, 06:42:49 pm
I apologise in advance if this question has already been answered in the preceding 29 pages.

About 3 months ago I completed a Calendar Event within the required time. My brevet card was checked and instantly validated on the day. However, the ride has yet to appear on my AUK member's results page. Is this something the event organiser takes care of or should I have notified someone at AUK?

Thank you in anticipation.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: PAC on December 28, 2014, 07:17:32 pm
I apologise in advance if this question has already been answered in the preceding 29 pages.

About 3 months ago I completed a Calendar Event within the required time. My brevet card was checked and instantly validated on the day. However, the ride has yet to appear on my AUK member's results page. Is this something the event organiser takes care of or should I have notified someone at AUK?

Thank you in anticipation.
It would be done by the organiser if he/she validated the ride on the day.  Send them a direct email and ask if they can check/resolve for you.

Cheers,

Peter.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Malmesbury Monk on December 28, 2014, 09:08:43 pm
Many thanks Peter. I'll try and get hold of the organiser.

Cheers.

Tim
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Reg.T on December 28, 2014, 11:45:57 pm
I wonder if this is a ride that I too have been waiting to see on the results pages. If it's the same one, then I DM'd the org via Twitter a couple weeks ago, and got the reply that they've "been too busy"  ::-)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Malmesbury Monk on December 29, 2014, 01:11:46 am
I wonder if this is a ride that I too have been waiting to see on the results pages. If it's the same one, then I DM'd the org via Twitter a couple weeks ago, and got the reply that they've "been too busy"  ::-)

I've taken the liberty Reg T of sending you a PM to see if we're both referring to the same ride. If we are, at least I'll know that it's not just me that's waiting.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: oliveriles on December 29, 2014, 04:07:22 pm
Those of you that have a KCNC light mounting bracket attached to your rear skewer, what rear light do you have attached to it?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on December 29, 2014, 04:10:38 pm
Those of you that have a KCNC light mounting bracket attached to your rear skewer, what rear light do you have attached to it?

Red Eye by Exposure run from my Exposure Dynamo....  It's not a flasher of course... Peeps tell me they can ride on my wheel in the dark without being blinded
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on December 30, 2014, 10:57:47 am
... I DM'd the org via Twitter a couple weeks ago, and got the reply that they've "been too busy"  ::-)

Some organisers see the ride as 'the thing' and everything else surrounding it (and especially after the event) as taking much lower priority.  It's rather difficult to argue with that philosophy but it does mean that sometimes results are very delayed.

About 3 months ago I completed a Calendar Event within the required time. My brevet card was checked and instantly validated on the day. However, the ride has yet to appear on my AUK member's results page. Is this something the event organiser takes care of or should I have notified someone at AUK?

There's a chain of events but in the first instance it's up to the organiser to notify AUK that you finished their ride.

* If the ride hasn't appeared in the 'Event Results Sheets' page - then that is just the organiser taking his time.  Eventually, AUK would probably take notice and prod with a pointed stick - though if it is last season, things get a bit more complicated.

* If there are riders listed on the 'Event Results Sheet' and you are included, then the ride should also appear on your 'Individual Rides List'. 
If it doesn't (most unlikely) that would be a system error and AUK's Recorder is the person to notify - make sure you mention your membership number and the event number if you know it, or the date and location/distance.

* If there are riders listed on the Results Sheet and you are not in that list, then you would have to contact the organiser, because that means he has finished with the event but hasn't passed your name or number along to AUK.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Malmesbury Monk on December 30, 2014, 10:10:01 pm
... I DM'd the org via Twitter a couple weeks ago, and got the reply that they've "been too busy"  ::-)

Some organisers see the ride as 'the thing' and everything else surrounding it (and especially after the event) as taking much lower priority.  It's rather difficult to argue with that philosophy but it does mean that sometimes results are very delayed.

About 3 months ago I completed a Calendar Event within the required time. My brevet card was checked and instantly validated on the day. However, the ride has yet to appear on my AUK member's results page. Is this something the event organiser takes care of or should I have notified someone at AUK?

There's a chain of events but in the first instance it's up to the organiser to notify AUK that you finished their ride.

* If the ride hasn't appeared in the 'Event Results Sheets' page - then that is just the organiser taking his time.  Eventually, AUK would probably take notice and prod with a pointed stick - though if it is last season, things get a bit more complicated.

* If there are riders listed on the 'Event Results Sheet' and you are included, then the ride should also appear on your 'Individual Rides List'. 
If it doesn't (most unlikely) that would be a system error and AUK's Recorder is the person to notify - make sure you mention your membership number and the event number if you know it, or the date and location/distance.

* If there are riders listed on the Results Sheet and you are not in that list, then you would have to contact the organiser, because that means he has finished with the event but hasn't passed your name or number along to AUK.

Thank you for the above FF.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Somnolent on December 30, 2014, 10:40:40 pm
AUK's Recorder is the person to investigate and tell you which of FF's options apply - make sure you mention your membership number and the event number if you know it, or the date and location/distance.
FTFY

An email to recorder@aukweb.net works best.   ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Arry-R on December 31, 2014, 12:08:17 pm
 :'( I taught they had about 2 weeks to submit results to AUK
Might be a new organiser??   Hope you get your due reward for completion of event.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Reg.T on December 31, 2014, 12:33:01 pm
Not a new org. FF was on the money re: prioritisation.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: oliveriles on January 05, 2015, 11:36:18 am
Could someone give me ECE discussion link on YACF - the link from the Audax website fails
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on January 05, 2015, 12:00:24 pm
The ones at the bottom of each of Martin's event pages do work.

Edited to add the details:

Go to http://www.aukweb.net/perms/ and scroll down to Martin Malins, and click on one of his ECE events. Then use the link at the bottom.

(Takes you to the AUK forum, not yacf, maybe that was the problem.)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: oliveriles on January 05, 2015, 01:01:24 pm
Sorry was not clear

http://www.aukweb.net/diy/ece/

There is a faq link at bottom that does not work.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on January 05, 2015, 01:11:53 pm
Yes, that link is broken, but you get to the same place (the same FAQ) by doing as above.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: oliveriles on January 05, 2015, 01:17:49 pm
Ok thanks, I can't see any FAQ at all anywhere from the link you mention.

I'll wing it and submit what I think is correct and see where we go
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on January 05, 2015, 01:30:57 pm
http://www.audax.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=273.0
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 05, 2015, 07:37:12 pm
ECE question: if I enter a 100km event and ride at least 50km to and from the event, I can claim 2 points as if it were a 200km event by filling in the appropriate form and getting receipts etc?

So does the 13h30 for a 200km event apply from the moment I leave home (or get the start point pop) to the time I get home again? Eg if I leave home at 7:00 I have until 20:30 to finish the ECE, and if I've spent half an hour hanging round for the calendar event to start, that's simply bad timing on my part? Or does the ECE part have its own time limits, from starting to arriving at the calendar event?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Reg.T on January 05, 2015, 08:35:37 pm
The complete ECE + Cal + ECE (including any time waiting at the start and/or eating cake at the end) has to be done within the overall time limit for the total distance. IIRC, you get extra time allowance for any over-distance on the ECE leg(s), but only the nominal Calendar event distance irrespective of any extra there.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 05, 2015, 08:57:37 pm
Thanks, that's what I thought but wanted to be sure. In fact, it looks like I can't get the ECE down to less than 60km per leg, so am doubting its feasibility (for me) on grey morning in early Feb.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jsabine on January 06, 2015, 12:39:50 am
On the ECE, not only do you get the time for the extra length in the ECE bit, but the overall allowance is calculated at 14.3km/h.

If you set off at 07:00 you'd have (60+100+60)/14.3=15h23m so would have to be home again by 22:23. I reckon you could get a fair bit of hanging round and cake-eating done in that time.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on January 06, 2015, 08:45:30 am
Beaten to it by js (thanks). Do note the 14.3, it can make a significant difference compared to 15.0.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 06, 2015, 11:16:23 am
Cheers, I hadn't noticed the minimum speed was different.

The real problem, of course, is motivating myself to get up so early on a cold, dark February morning.  :-\ If only there were cafes open at that time, it would be so much easier! Keep going till the next cup of tea and slice of cake or beans on toast!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on January 06, 2015, 11:27:02 am
Cheers, I hadn't noticed the minimum speed was different.

The real problem, of course, is motivating myself to get up so early on a cold, dark February morning.  :-\ If only there were cafes open at that time, it would be so much easier! Keep going till the next cup of tea and slice of cake or beans on toast!

Nah, just don't go to bed, and soon you get bored and WANT to get out on the bike  8)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: citoyen on January 06, 2015, 12:14:15 pm
The real problem, of course, is motivating myself to get up so early on a cold, dark February morning.  :-\ If only there were cafes open at that time, it would be so much easier! Keep going till the next cup of tea and slice of cake or beans on toast!

I enjoy riding to the start of events when I can, even though this sometimes means setting off at about 3am. It sounds like a rough deal, but starting from home at 3am is much better than starting an event at that time (as some 300s do), because you don't have to factor in travel time to get to the start.

Also, riding to the start is much easier from a morale point of view than being faced with having to ride extra distance at the end of a calendar event. I rarely feel like riding home after an event, whatever distance, and usually get the train.

On the other hand, if you add the distance to the end of the calendar event rather than before, you don't have the guesswork element of how much time to allow.

I don't do ECE anyway - my sole reason for riding to the start is simply that I prefer not to drive if I can help it.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on January 06, 2015, 12:22:36 pm
Cheers, I hadn't noticed the minimum speed was different.

The real problem, of course, is motivating myself to get up so early on a cold, dark February morning.  :-\ If only there were cafes open at that time, it would be so much easier! Keep going till the next cup of tea and slice of cake or beans on toast!
If I'm riding any distance to a calendar event, I tend to treat the start HQ as a cafe control :)

Most events won't do substantial breakfasts (although a few do), so I take something with me, and generally blag a mug of tea to wash it down.

Its no fun riding 60km to a cold car-park start with no facilities.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Somnolent on January 06, 2015, 08:41:35 pm
Sorry was not clear

http://www.aukweb.net/diy/ece/

There is a faq link at bottom that does not work.

Link now fixed.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on January 06, 2015, 09:21:06 pm
Link now fixed.

 :)  Thanks Pete (for that and much else).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on January 06, 2015, 09:23:27 pm

Its no fun riding 60km to a cold car-park start with no facilities.

+1  I was going to ride to the start of the Poor Student on Saturday and was very glad that I wimped out.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on January 06, 2015, 11:13:48 pm

Its no fun riding 60km to a cold car-park start with no facilities.

+1  I was going to ride to the start of the Poor Student on Saturday and was very glad that I wimped out.
for future ref, its worth noting the luxurious services about 200m away.

(a far more sensible start point IMHO )
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 07, 2015, 12:43:22 pm
Also, riding to the start is much easier from a morale point of view than being faced with having to ride extra distance at the end of a calendar event. I rarely feel like riding home after an event, whatever distance, and usually get the train.

On the other hand, if you add the distance to the end of the calendar event rather than before, you don't have the guesswork element of how much time to allow.

I don't do ECE anyway - my sole reason for riding to the start is simply that I prefer not to drive if I can help it.
Comes to the same thing - my reason for riding to the start is that I prefer not to drive, because I don't have a car! When the start's in a little place with no railway, riding is the only way to get there - and back. I'm not really too fussed about the points, TBH.

Hmm, I suppose if I'm going to do this kind of thing regularly, it might be worth looking into car hire - and remembering how to drive!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: The Bonk on January 10, 2015, 05:38:12 pm
Is the max time for a 200k BRM 13h30?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on January 10, 2015, 05:39:16 pm
Yes, regardless of overdistance.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: oliveriles on January 13, 2015, 10:35:49 pm
Can anyone recommend a front light that can take a 5v usb charge so can power it on the go through the night via a power monkey   Needless to say it needs to be bright :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jefmcg on February 08, 2015, 11:47:09 am
Can anyone recommend a front light that can take a 5v usb charge so can power it on the go through the night via a power monkey   Needless to say it needs to be bright :)

No.  I have a Moon XP500 (since superseded).  It can be charged with a usb battery, but it won't turn on while it is charging.  My solution was to buy 2 spare batteries (around £15@) to go through the night.  I'm sure you can do the same with the newer models.

(It's a bit of a faff charging them, as you have to insert each in the light, charge it, then the next - but I only ever use the spare batteries a couple of times a year, so I can live with it.)

Edit - No light will be waterproof with the USB port open, so if it rained most of the night, you would not be able to recharge your light.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feline on February 08, 2015, 12:06:00 pm
Can anyone recommend a front light that can take a 5v usb charge so can power it on the go through the night via a power monkey   Needless to say it needs to be bright :)

You could buy 2 identical lights to have one charging while the other one is in use.
However wouldn't you be better off just using rechargeable batteries in something like a Hope Vision and just changing them over?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: The Bonk on February 26, 2015, 09:26:31 pm
Could a DIY be created for an Everesting attempt and AAA points claimed for the 8,848m?

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on February 26, 2015, 10:05:23 pm
(Is there something that can be added to what's been said on the AAA Points thread? Actually, I hope so!)

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=10426.550
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Aunt Maud on February 27, 2015, 04:48:02 pm
I thought hill reps and repeat loops were out for AAA.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on February 27, 2015, 05:02:14 pm
Repeating hill climbs in a perm are a long way from where Audax started - long point-to-point events.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Aunt Maud on February 27, 2015, 05:19:33 pm
Repeating hill climbs in a perm are a long way from where Audax started - long point-to-point events.

So's 60km AAA DIY's
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on February 27, 2015, 05:28:23 pm
Can you guess what I think about them?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Aunt Maud on February 27, 2015, 05:31:52 pm
Um......just give me a minute to think about that.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hillbilly on February 27, 2015, 10:27:33 pm
I thought hill reps and repeat loops were out for AAA.

You would struggle to get a route accepted where the minimum distance was "up an down hill 10 times".  And it is frowned upon (as per LWaBs post, whose view I share) but there is nothing in the current AAA rules against including hill reps etc within a brevet provided you complete the rest of it (the controls for which dictate the minimum distance) in time.  Ditto loops.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hillbilly on February 27, 2015, 10:31:13 pm
Repeating hill climbs in a perm are a long way from where Audax started - long point-to-point events.

So's 60km AAA DIY's

These trivial rides are also against the original intention of the AAA scheme.  It was a series for those who enjoyed hard riding. 
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Aunt Maud on February 28, 2015, 08:46:56 am
I've taken this here.....https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=10426.550
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on February 28, 2015, 09:16:36 am
I wish I'd edited my comment for singular/ plural consistency. I blame the lurgy.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: D.A.L.E. on April 22, 2015, 10:10:58 pm
What does the current handbook look like? Is it this one? - http://www.aukweb.net/handbook/handbook.pdf
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jsabine on April 22, 2015, 11:32:37 pm
That's the latest handbook, but it's not strictly current.

The handbook is discontinued, and the content has mostly migrated to the website, with some elements (eg palmares) appearing in Arrivee to maintain their hardcopy presence. There are inevitable inconsistencies, and references to the handbook remain, but they're being worked through.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: D.A.L.E. on April 23, 2015, 07:55:39 am
That's the latest handbook, but it's not strictly current.

The handbook is discontinued, and the content has mostly migrated to the website, with some elements (eg palmares) appearing in Arrivee to maintain their hardcopy presence. There are inevitable inconsistencies, and references to the handbook remain, but they're being worked through.

 :thumbsup: Ta. Was raking round the house last night for a good hour looking for the 2015 handbook...  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: billyam998 on May 26, 2015, 09:42:14 pm
It might already be buried in the previous 32 pages but, is a diy or, permanent 600 acceptable for a super randonneur? It seems like all the 600's are clustered close together this year, for PBP reasons I assume. I would like to do one towards the end of august.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on May 26, 2015, 10:17:37 pm
Yes for an AUK SR (British homologated) but not for an ACP SR.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Whitedown Man on June 01, 2015, 10:40:06 pm
Doing my first ever 600 - The Buzzard - later this month. I can complete a 400 in 24-to-25 hrs, so theoretically I should be OK in terms of time for a 600, but I'm going to need at least a few hours kip on a 600 whereas on a 400 I ride straight through the night. In devising a "sleep strategy", do I need to make the cut-off at every intermediate control, or instead is it sufficient merely to make the cut-off at the arrivee?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on June 01, 2015, 11:47:34 pm
You need to reach each control before its final time, not just the arrivee. The times depend on whether the minimum speed is 14.3 kph or 15 kph, though most 600s in a PBP year run on BRM speed, 15 kph.....

In practice that means you need to ride faster than the minimum speed to build up a 'sleep fund',  i.e. a reserve of time when you can try to sleep.

Many seem to manage with the traditional three hours, but we are all different...

Over the last two weekends I did the Bryan Chapman Memorial 600, and also the Kernow and South West 600 with no sleep....
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marcusjb on June 01, 2015, 11:57:20 pm
Yep, you should reach the controls before the cut off.

You can leave a control after that cut off with the expectation that you will ride above 15kph average to gain your time back (however, do not expect a controller to be happy if you rock up with minutes to spare and then linger on for an hour or more!).

There is some discretion I believe if you arrive at an intermediate control out of time - again, you can push on and gain that time back. Again don't expect a controller to wait around etc.

You should be fine with that sort of time for a 400 (not dissimilar to many of my own times). 24 hours to the sleep stop, 3 hours sleep, 12 hours for the final 200km; this will leave you a cushion of an hour. Sound achievable?

You won't need much more than 3 hours kip in reality (though it is nice having more!). 2-3 hours will see you through to the end for sure.

You will be just fine.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Whitedown Man on June 02, 2015, 12:20:11 am
Thank you both bikey-mikey & marcusjb - exactly the info I needed. I was reckoning based both upon my 400km times and because The Buzzard is x-rated that 90 minutes or at most 2hrs in a bus shelter somewhere would be my sleep allowance, and that my best strategy will be to get close to a control somewhere between 300km & 400km and find my sleep spot knowing exactly how much time I've got in hand. My first 600 will be a voyage of discovery, and although I'll be bitterly disappointed if I miss out on my SR at least I'll have learned something that will give me a better chance of earning it next year. Cheers!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feanor on June 14, 2015, 10:18:18 am
The place you are most likely to be out-of-time on a 600 is the first control after your sleep stop, so plan to leave your sleep-stop in sufficient time to reach the next control.
In general, your sleep time is going to be:

- your already-in-the-bank time-in-hand; ( so the later into your ride it is, the more you will have )
- plus -
- you can go into a planned time-deficit, so long as you can make it up *before the next control*.

For this reason, it's often best to plan your next control as far down the road as possible after your proposed sleep stop.   This maximises the distance available to make up any time deficit.
If the next control were only 10km down the road, you'd not be able to go into any deficit at all, since you don't have any chance to make it up.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on June 15, 2015, 06:09:27 am
Remember also that a DIYxGPS 600 can also be used to get your SR.

It has some practical points too...

Generally I would recommend designing a route with two different loops, both of which start from home.

That way your sleep stop can be in your own bed, with your own shower if needed, and limitless changes of clothing, easiest feeding, (favourite meal in fridge), and not forgetting things like floor pump, extra tubes, and even in extremis the ability to use different bike on day two.

As Feanor said, make the first control on day two a 'long' one, and as you design the route, make it as flat as possible, or even downhill if you live up on some moors, and if you are really clever plan routes that go in  different directions and just before you start, choose a tailwind assisted day two start....
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: rabbit on June 17, 2015, 07:37:50 am
Just checking how many days I'll have for a 1300, but my maths is rather terrible so can someone confirm please?

1300 /12 kph = 108.33 hours

108.33 hours/24 hours = 4.51 days. = 4 days and 12 hours. 

Is that correct? 
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on June 17, 2015, 08:57:48 am
 Agreed. Slightly more exactly, 4 days and 12.33 hours, or 4 days 12 hours 20 minutes.

(If we had an agreed system such as "Gmaps walking" for measuring the counting distance, and if the counting distance was 1324km, you'd have an extra 2 hours on top of that.
 I'm not sure where we stand, or where we are going to stand, on that aspect now!)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: rabbit on June 17, 2015, 06:24:16 pm
Agreed. Slightly more exactly, 4 days and 12.33 hours, or 4 days 12 hours 20 minutes.

(If we had an agreed system such as "Gmaps walking" for measuring the counting distance, and if the counting distance was 1324km, you'd have an extra 2 hours on top of that.
 I'm not sure where we stand, or where we are going to stand, on that aspect now!)

Thanks Tony, that's great.  Didn't want to ask you direct as I know you are quite busy enough!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: rabbit on August 13, 2015, 02:04:49 pm
If you are doing a multiday Audax that runs from the last two days of September through to the first two days of October - which audax year would the validation count toward - the 2014-2015 season or the 2015-2016 season?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on August 13, 2015, 03:02:48 pm
It would count for the season in which you started the ride. When 600s (eg) are entered on the results, the date is that of the start. So a 1200 starting on 30 September 2015 would be dated 30 September on the results, so it would have to be counted in the 2014-2105 season. Unless I'm wrong!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: rabbit on August 13, 2015, 05:19:59 pm
It would count for the season in which you started the ride. When 600s (eg) are entered on the results, the date is that of the start. So a 1200 starting on 30 September 2015 would be dated 30 September on the results, so it would have to be counted in the 2014-2105 season. Unless I'm wrong!

I had a feeling that might be the case!  Thanks Tony :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marcusjb on August 15, 2015, 09:26:35 pm
I would expect it to be allocated to the season it was in for the majority of the ride.

I know this is all hypothetical but, let's say, two people are tied in the last few days of the season for the stupid pointless points competition. Rider A goes out and rides a 200 on the last day of the season; rider B on the other hand, goes and rides a 1000km on the last day of the season. I would expect rider B to be awarded their 10 points but in the following season as the majority of it was ridden in the first days of the new season. So player A wins. Even if player B did 300 or more km in the last day of the month. Player A would have the right to be pissed off if they lost the competition by someone riding more in a different season (this is of course on the assumption that player A is worried about such things (which is itself made apparent by the fact player A went out to ride on the last day of the season)).

Obviously if you rode a ride that split equally over the two seasons, then it is up to you and recorder to work it out, but I suspect that this is not something that happens often.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on August 15, 2015, 09:43:47 pm
The entire completed ride counts for whatever minute it starts, nothing more complicated than that.

There have been close AUK competitions won by perms started after midday on the last day of the season.

In the old days, all counting rides had to be completed by midnight on the last day of the season. Sometimes that required finishing before the maximum time allowed for that perm.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: D.A.L.E. on September 03, 2015, 08:33:55 pm
Is the 'results' section of aukweb a bit slow at updating at the minute?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jsabine on September 03, 2015, 09:47:33 pm
Is the 'results' section of aukweb a bit slow at updating at the minute?

It's got results up from 9 of the 10 events run on Saturday, and there weren't any calendar events on Sunday or Bank Holiday Monday.

What makes you think it's a bit slow?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: D.A.L.E. on September 03, 2015, 10:43:11 pm
Is the 'results' section of aukweb a bit slow at updating at the minute?

It's got results up from 9 of the 10 events run on Saturday, and there weren't any calendar events on Sunday or Bank Holiday Monday.

What makes you think it's a bit slow?

I'm waiting on DIYs to appear in my/others results. It's usually very quick, just wondering. I'll just be patient like.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on September 03, 2015, 11:01:32 pm
Is it me? (might be, I don't know who you really are... I've just about got on top of a backlog after being away for a fortnight. Occasionally something does get overlooked... a gentle enquiry/reminder would be in order anyway.)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: D.A.L.E. on September 04, 2015, 12:40:46 am
Is it me? (might be, I don't know who you really are... I've just about got on top of a backlog after being away for a fortnight. Occasionally something does get overlooked... a gentle enquiry/reminder would be in order anyway.)

Nope, not you! It's not been very long at all really, just usually very quick! I was wondering if post-PBP/end of season was making a difference or something.

Probably just on holiday or something! I feel as though I sound like I'm complaining, I'm not!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Whitedown Man on October 07, 2015, 06:53:57 pm
Beginner level GPS question.  Just bought myself an Etrex 10 in order to secure entry into the Perm / DIY by GPS world.  Does the following sound about right in terms of what I need to do in order to record and validate a ride:

1) Travel to start
2) Turn on Etrex 10
3) Reset trip data
4) Do the ride
5) Turn Etrex 10 off without saving anything
6) Plug Etrex 10 into my computer and copy the file named Current.gpx onto my PC so that I can then email it to the organiser

(The "without saving anything" seems particularly counter-intuitive, but as far as I can tell that's what the advice is.)

I'll worry about "intermediate level" stuff like what to do overnight on long rides or what to do whilst changing batteries later.  For the time being, would be very grateful if my "six steps" look about right … thx in advance
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ningishzidda on October 08, 2015, 07:06:31 am
Beginner level GPS question.  Just bought myself an Etrex 10 in order to secure entry into the Perm / DIY by GPS world.  Does the following sound about right in terms of what I need to do in order to record and validate a ride:

1) Travel to start
2) Turn on Etrex 10
3) Reset trip data
4) Do the ride
5) Turn Etrex 10 off without saving anything
6) Plug Etrex 10 into my computer and copy the file named Current.gpx onto my PC so that I can then email it to the organiser

(The "without saving anything" seems particularly counter-intuitive, but as far as I can tell that's what the advice is.)

I'll worry about "intermediate level" stuff like what to do overnight on long rides or what to do whilst changing batteries later.  For the time being, would be very grateful if my "six steps" look about right … thx in advance

Test and modify your procedure by doing some short 5 milers round the block until you are confident the procedure is correct.

Define - Measure - Analyse - Improve - Control.

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: notlobgp14 on October 08, 2015, 07:51:06 am
I use an etrex 30.  My routine is the same as you propose with an added caviat for Point 6; don't switch on again until after midnight.  If you ensure that the device is set to 'archive at midnight' or whatever the menu option is on your device, you then pickup the latest track in the Archive Folder.

I've found that I get an added portion to the track as a straight line from end of ride to the place where the device is when switched back on.  I would experiment with Archiving Current Track if you want to switch on before the next day, I'm sure it will be just the same as Auto Archive.  You will have to do that before moving from your last Check Point or you'll still get the 'Straight Line Effect'
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: JonB on October 08, 2015, 08:29:32 am
I was never that convinced by the 'do not save' and turn off the device advice.  It's fine if you're going straight back home and can turn on the computer but if you're away and doing other rides then it all gets a bit messy.  The other issue is that you may be riding to and from the start point and want a track just on the DIY route.

I have always saved the track and not cleared it so that I could always use the 'current' track if there was a problem.  I've never had a problem with our DIY org and he may give a view on this. You could check with the org that you're submitting to whether a saved GPX track is ok?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on October 08, 2015, 09:05:31 am
he may give a view on this

I'll try! I've just been looking for something which I think came from the highest authority (Francis) recently, but can't find it: I think he said that the "do not save your track" was no longer appropriate, and had only ever applied to one particular type of GPS device anyway.

As an organiser (with limited computer expertise), I've never noticed a problem over whether or not a track has been "saved".

With my own etrex 30, I can't even get a track onto my computer unless I do save it. The DIY org who deals with my tracks hasn't found this a problem.

Also, thanks notlobgp14 ! Now I know how to avoid getting that straight line!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Aunt Maud on October 08, 2015, 09:38:26 am
Tony

It's in that thread about forging DIY by GPS on the other forum.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on October 08, 2015, 09:59:07 am
Thanks AM.

This is the bit I was looking for (I was wrong about who wrote it):

"The 'do not save tracklog on GPS' always confused me.... because I never found out how to do it on an Etrex anyway.  Turns out it's an Edge thing anyway.
And 'complete the electronic brevet card'    with what additional detail ?   I've always just responded to the organiser's email with a copy of the .gpx and had it accepted."

Yes, the "electronic brevet card" bit is definitely superfluous to how the system is used now.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Whitedown Man on October 08, 2015, 12:22:47 pm
Thank you to all who responded. I will be testing and learning over the next few days.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tom_e on October 08, 2015, 01:32:27 pm
I don't have an Etrex 10, so I'm going by my Oregon, but:

...
3) Reset trip data
...

You want to reset the track data before the ride, not just the trip data.  Otherwise it'll still have some old track hanging about from previous use when you send it in.

Resetting the trip data is worth doing too, so the numbers for distance and speed etc you see while on the ride are correct.


(Someone correct me if the two reset functions are combined in the new Etrex, but they certainly aren't in my Oregon.)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: JonB on October 08, 2015, 02:09:47 pm
(Someone correct me if the two reset functions are combined in the new Etrex, but they certainly aren't in my Oregon.)

Yes, following a software update there was a new button on the reset menu to do a combined clear track AND trip data so I guess that this is incorporated into the new etrex range. It's a good addition  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tom_e on October 08, 2015, 02:30:17 pm
Ah, ok.  That seems a fairly sound change from a user-interface point of view.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: TigaSefi on October 13, 2015, 04:35:11 pm
There some events I want to do again next year but they aren't listed for 2016 or the new season. Is it possible they will be added later ? Oasts and Coasts and Man of Kent are the ones I am looking for.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: iddu on October 14, 2015, 09:34:20 pm
There some events I want to do again next year but they aren't listed for 2016 or the new season. Is it possible they will be added later ? Oasts and Coasts and Man of Kent are the ones I am looking for.

E-mail to the org in the first instance, as to...

[hat] Barring BRM's, I won't hassle Org's for any action until the copydate of Arrivee before the quarter of their event, IYSWIM, so non-electronic readers get time [/hat]
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: TigaSefi on October 15, 2015, 04:45:18 pm
There some events I want to do again next year but they aren't listed for 2016 or the new season. Is it possible they will be added later ? Oasts and Coasts and Man of Kent are the ones I am looking for.

E-mail to the org in the first instance, as to...

[hat] Barring BRM's, I won't hassle Org's for any action until the copydate of Arrivee before the quarter of their event, IYSWIM, so non-electronic readers get time [/hat]

Cool thanks, I've found out that Oasts and Coasts will be added sooner than later. I'll be patient for the Man of Kent one though :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: rcbprk on October 25, 2015, 07:43:25 pm
Bit of an embarrassing question, but I'm looking to achieve a Brevet 500 and Randonneur 500 in my first season - can I count one of the 100km rides 'twice' to achieve both awards (i.e. do a 50km, 5x100km, 150km and 200km)?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on October 25, 2015, 08:08:49 pm
Yes.

EDIT: From memory, you may also be able to count the 150 towards your 5 x 100.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: rcbprk on October 25, 2015, 08:12:58 pm
Easy as that. Thanks.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jsabine on October 27, 2015, 12:00:29 pm
Easy as that. Thanks.

I think it's even easier ...

AIUI (and you'd be better off speaking to someone who *actually* knows ...) rides for the Brevet and Randonneur series get counted independently of each other, so (given that, as LWaB says, the B500 is made up of 5x100 or 150km events), you could ride 50, 100, 150 and 200 for your R500, then top up with 3 more 100s to get your B500.

(And because longer events can substitute for shorter in the R500 series, one of those extra 100s could be substituted for the 50 ...)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Kim on October 27, 2015, 12:16:44 pm
Having done just that last season, I can confirm that it works.

At some point I decided to go for the Brevet 1000, but forgot that the 200 wouldn't count towards it.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Audax Monster on October 27, 2015, 03:39:06 pm
Sorry - boring question.....  do the events for an SR series have to be calendar events?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on October 27, 2015, 03:48:10 pm
No for AUK, yes for ACP.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jsabine on October 27, 2015, 03:50:01 pm
Which answer do you want?

No (if you want them to count for an AUK SR award, then perms are fine)
Yes (if you want eg recognition by ACP and potential qualification for PBP, then they have to be calendar events, and specifically BRM ones at that).


(Pipped to it by LWaB. Bah.)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: rcbprk on October 27, 2015, 06:56:29 pm
Easy as that. Thanks.

I think it's even easier ...

AIUI (and you'd be better off speaking to someone who *actually* knows ...) rides for the Brevet and Randonneur series get counted independently of each other, so (given that, as LWaB says, the B500 is made up of 5x100 or 150km events), you could ride 50, 100, 150 and 200 for your R500, then top up with 3 more 100s to get your B500.

(And because longer events can substitute for shorter in the R500 series, one of those extra 100s could be substituted for the 50 ...)

Back of the net! Not that I want an excuse to ride less, but that does mean that I can get those two badges early in the season and concentrate on longer rides as summer approaches. Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on October 27, 2015, 07:56:35 pm
You only get the highest Randonneur series award that you qualify for in a season (except for Super Randonneur) i.e. Randonneur 500 and Randonneur 1000 only gets you the Randonneur 1000.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Whitedown Man on October 28, 2015, 11:58:49 am
Is it considered "bad form" to plagiarise someone else's Perm for a new DIY?

I need a 200k perm/diy to fill in the gaps for my RRtY(s) over the winter months, but my nearest 200k perm requires a 35km round trip from home to its nearest point (yes, I know I'm a lightweight). My cunning plan is to devise a DIY starting and finishing from home and using all but one of the existing perm's controls, but I wouldn't want to break an unwritten rule or unwittingly offend anyone.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hillbilly on October 28, 2015, 03:58:37 pm
Probably.  But there is nothing they can do about it.  And it really depends on how much of the route is shared (doing it all as a DIY is frowned upon, and adds to the burden of DIY organisers unecessarily, but replicating a bit of of the route much less so.  Organisers don't own the roads.  I'd suggest 35km diversion falls into the latter scenario, btw).

Sometimes, however, you can come to a "special agreement" with the organiser about the start/finish location.  If it is one of my perms (AWE or MH) and we are talking about a reasonable deviation, get in touch and we'll see what can be sorted out.  Might not be possible but don't ask, don't get...
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Whitedown Man on October 28, 2015, 04:43:42 pm
Probably.  But there is nothing they can do about it.  And it really depends on how much of the route is shared (doing it all as a DIY is frowned upon, and adds to the burden of DIY organisers unecessarily, but replicating a bit of of the route much less so.  Organisers don't own the roads.  I'd suggest 35km diversion falls into the latter scenario, btw).

Sometimes, however, you can come to a "special agreement" with the organiser about the start/finish location.  If it is one of my perms (AWE or MH) and we are talking about a reasonable deviation, get in touch and we'll see what can be sorted out.  Might not be possible but don't ask, don't get...

Great answer, thank you.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Deano on November 05, 2015, 08:54:09 pm
Can't be bothered to start a new thread, but is Bob going for O240RTY? :o

http://aukweb.net/results/detail/2016/listride/?Rider=7606
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Deano on December 09, 2015, 09:05:19 pm
Can't be bothered to start a new thread, but is Bob going for O240RTY? :o

http://aukweb.net/results/detail/2016/listride/?Rider=7606

Normally I'd think it was a glitch, but since it's Bob, I'd bet he really did ride the Old 240 on the 1st and 2nd of November.

He hasn't ridden it in December yet, though. Slacker.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Somnolent on December 10, 2015, 11:48:41 am
I'm reliably informed it's a system glitch, which is being addressed.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: D.A.L.E. on December 11, 2015, 12:21:47 pm
Can't be bothered to start a new thread, but is Bob going for O240RTY? :o

http://aukweb.net/results/detail/2016/listride/?Rider=7606

Normally I'd think it was a glitch, but since it's Bob, I'd bet he really did ride the Old 240 on the 1st and 2nd of November.

He hasn't ridden it in December yet, though. Slacker.

How far are you off RRTY then?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Deano on December 11, 2015, 09:27:35 pm
Just back from my December 200 (pending validation etc etc).

Only January to go.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: D.A.L.E. on December 11, 2015, 11:54:27 pm
Just back from my December 200 (pending validation etc etc).

Only January to go.

 :thumbsup: Nice one.

Do you and Graeme fancy a March 300..?  ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: D.A.L.E. on February 01, 2016, 11:29:12 am
(I'm sure I've read the answer to this somewhere, but can't find it now)

Is it possible to get events you rode before you were an AUK member added to your results once you become a member (provided your name is on the finishers list etc.)?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fboab on February 01, 2016, 12:54:34 pm
Yes. Contact the recorder.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: D.A.L.E. on February 01, 2016, 01:09:18 pm
Yes. Contact the recorder.

Aye, that was it, the recorder. Knew I'd read it somewhere. Never thought to look on the 'Contact Us' page.  ::-)

Thanking you.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Somnolent on February 01, 2016, 05:43:21 pm
Ahem... Yes - The Recorder can do this, for rides in this season and, usually, for the season just finished.
Things older than that, sorry, no can do.

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Reg.T on February 04, 2016, 05:55:17 pm
I think I can guess the answer to this one, but if anyone knows...
The ACP Randonneur 10000 award requires (along other things) 2 full sets of rides at 200, 300, 400, 600 & 1,000km.
Over what period does a set need to be completed? Is it a calendar year, or the overall qualification period of up to 6 years, or something else?
Cheers
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jsabine on February 04, 2016, 06:04:42 pm
It's the ACP season, so 1st Nov to 31st Oct.

I don't know whether they require the two series to be completed in separate seasons, though I don't see any prohibition on doing them both in one.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on February 04, 2016, 06:30:16 pm
The ACP's rubric suggested doing the 200-1000 series within a season. Sophie of the ACP specifically noted that the 1000 didn't have to be in the same year as the SR.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Reg.T on February 04, 2016, 07:51:56 pm
It's specifically whether the 1000s need to be on the same year as an SR series for me. So can I take Sophie's view as definite?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jsabine on February 04, 2016, 09:09:30 pm
The ACP's rubric suggested doing the 200-1000 series within a season. Sophie of the ACP specifically noted that the 1000 didn't have to be in the same year as the SR.

Do you have a reference to that? A little while ago you wrote1 (in reply to a query about the ACP R10k and AUK B25k):

The 2, 3, 4, 6 and 10 BRMs have to be done in a year (twice), effectively an extended Super Randonneur series.
although a few posts later you said it was different for the R5k
The ACP Randonneur 5000 does not require the 1000 to be in the same year as the Super Randonneur series (200, 300, 400, 600).

Given that the ACP rules say "2 full series of ACP brevets (200, 300, 400, 600 and 1000 km)" ("Deux fois la série des Brevets de Randonneurs Mondiaux soit 2 fois 200, 300, 400, 600 et 1000 km") rather than, say, "2 SR series and two additional 1000km rides," I'd not be happy to assume different years for the SR and the 1k were OK without a definite statement.





1: I wasn't stalking: this is probably the first time I've got the YACF search to give a sensible result
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on February 04, 2016, 09:41:37 pm
Trying to find the reference now. I disagreed with Sophie's statement but I think marcusjb e-mailed Sophie for the straight dope.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on February 04, 2016, 11:30:31 pm
Have a look at http://parisbrestparis2007.actifforum.com/t3465-creation-du-randonneur-10000 where this question is asked and answered.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jsabine on February 05, 2016, 02:48:59 am
Thanks for the link, but I do find it a little surprising: the question was asked, and answered to the effect that the rides can be done in any year (within the six year limit, obv) and any order - which doesn't strike me as much of a series ... The format of the claim form supports this, mind, as it asks for details of your 2 200s, your 2 300s and so on, rather than setting them out in series order.

I've suggested to Chris Crossland that as ACP Correspondent, it might be worth asking for formal clarification.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: D.A.L.E. on February 10, 2016, 07:55:11 pm
Are ECEs only doable via the cheque/SAE method? (I have never owned a chequebook, nor do I really know what a SAE is...)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on February 10, 2016, 08:01:08 pm
Have a look at Martin's FAQ number 19 at http://forum.audax.uk/index.php?topic=273.0
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hellymedic on February 10, 2016, 08:12:05 pm
For Audax purposes an SAE is a Stamped (Large please if you expect a badge or much Stuff) self-Addressed C5 (big enough for A5 = A4 folded in half) Envelope.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: D.A.L.E. on February 10, 2016, 08:59:25 pm
Have a look at Martin's FAQ number 19 at http://forum.audax.uk/index.php?topic=273.0
Nice one, cheers.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wycombewheeler on May 31, 2016, 11:21:20 pm
How long after the event should I expect to have my brevet car returned? My rides; the dean and severn across are no longer listed as provisional, I thought brevet cards were returned following validation but I haven't received them.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jsabine on June 01, 2016, 10:15:01 am
In a while ...

They'll turn up, but have to make their way from the validation team to the organiser, into the correct envelopes, and back to you. At every stage they're dependent on the loving ministrations of either the post office or of volunteers; six weeks is about the minimum I'd expect, and twice that isn't uncommon - can be longer if BRM validation is involved too.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: The Bonk on June 08, 2016, 10:20:21 pm
What's the least longest time taken to complete an SR?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on June 08, 2016, 10:26:20 pm
Do you mean least total riding time or least number of days start to finish? The Yanks and Aussies (and others, less frequently) regularly organise 'SR in a week' series.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: The Bonk on June 09, 2016, 06:38:42 am
Number of days from start to finish.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: psyclist on June 09, 2016, 06:51:56 am
What's the least longest time taken to complete an SR?
Assuming you complete each ride on a different day, then 4 days ... 1 day each for the 200, 300, 400 and 600. I'm not convinced that is what you were asking though.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: D.A.L.E. on June 09, 2016, 01:02:16 pm
What's the least longest time taken to complete an SR?
Assuming you complete each ride on a different day, then 4 days ... 1 day each for the 200, 300, 400 and 600. I'm not convinced that is what you were asking though.
Has anyone done it in 4 days though?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on June 09, 2016, 01:06:02 pm
I've not heard of anybody doing a SR in four days.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marcusjb on June 10, 2016, 09:27:15 am
^ very achievable clearly, but a little too willy-waving.

I do like the idea of an SR in a week though, but going somewhere new and beautiful (and probably not in the UK!) and spending a week riding, exploring and enjoying it.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on June 10, 2016, 10:36:00 am
^ very achievable clearly, but a little too willy-waving.

I do like the idea of an SR in a week though, but going somewhere new and beautiful (and probably not in the UK!) and spending a week riding, exploring and enjoying it.
Yes, that's the only way I can see a "Brevet week" being worthwhile/enjoyable.

(I seem to recall a 30-page debate in  c2007 about the easiest way to arrange the 4 rides across the 7 days. :D )
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marcusjb on June 10, 2016, 11:03:13 am
Not wanting to kick that one off again (and I think it's largely irrelevant which way you skin that cat), but the idea is actually quite appealing for a late-summer/early-autumn adventure somewhere still warm.  You've got about 100 hours of maximum riding time for the 4 events (40+27+20+13 on BRM timing), giving you at least 68 hours of downtime in a week.  Plenty of time to recover.

Hmm.  Could be a top banana week away to round out the summer.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fboab on June 11, 2016, 10:30:36 am


Hmm.  Could be a top banana week away to round out the summer.

Hell yeah.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: JamesBradbury on June 28, 2016, 12:28:03 pm
When riding an audax on a tandem, I'd always assumed we need two receipts, one for each brevet card. Recently an organiser suggested that one would do for a tandem.

I'm all for reducing our control faff, even a tiny bit, so if one receipt is OK that simplifies things a bit.

I imagine most organisers wouldn't be picky about this, but I'd rather do things by the book. Is the official line "one receipt per brevet card"?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fboab on June 28, 2016, 12:42:24 pm
We always used to ask if the org would give us 'tandem dispensation' but the rule is one rider, one receipt
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Chris S on June 28, 2016, 01:20:35 pm
PBP - Mandatory individual validation - no tandem dispensation.
LEL - one of us could take both brevet cards for stamping - but that's likely because half the controllers know us, and knew we were on a tandem.
Rides where we know the Org - As fboab says, many give us dispensation if we ask.
DIY x GPS - 2x GPS tracks from a tandem is mandatory.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Assasin on June 28, 2016, 02:20:59 pm
I've managed with a shared reciept for tandem rides.
Usually OK it with the boss first.
After all the organiser writes in the times in off your proofs anyway - assuming you haven't already done so to ease the pain.
And recycles the rest of the stuff.

So it isn't consistent.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Torslanda on July 07, 2016, 10:41:59 pm
General question to the floor.

Is it permissible to Audax on an e-bike?

luv'n'stuff

J
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hellymedic on July 07, 2016, 11:03:40 pm
I think you may ride but won't be homologated/get a brevet.
I think it was discussed at last AGM.
E-bikes are not 'propelled solely by human muscular effort' are they?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Moleman76 on July 24, 2016, 07:08:06 am
What say ye (permanent(s) question) :

I'm working on a 100km route, where the roads basically form three ovals in series - think of them as links in a chain, perhaps.  It's not uncommon to have the same loop route used interchangeably depending on which direction the loop is ridden, or to have a point-to-point which allows starting at either end.

One could start riding at either end of any of the ovals (4 possible start points) and ride any individual link clockwise or counter(anti)-clockwise.

While the total climbing and descending would be the same, the ride experience would be different.  Depending on which direction one rides a link, it could either have a big hill and a long descent, or a long gentle climb and a quick drop.

Essentially, there are 4 x 2 x 2 x 2 = 32 different combinations, yet basically one overall group of roads used.

How to get that across, without creating 32 rides?  And, of course there are some connecting bits to add in, since the links don't always totally interlock, depending on which road / direction you've chosen for the next leg of the ride.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: D.A.L.E. on August 19, 2016, 03:09:50 pm
How do I report errors in my results? I've been accredited with a 150km ECE for a 100km DIY I did from my house.  :D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on August 19, 2016, 08:46:46 pm
How do I report errors in my results? I've been accredited with a 150km ECE for a 100km DIY I did from my house.  :D

Report the issue to your DIY org; they are best placed to progress the issue.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: D.A.L.E. on August 22, 2016, 12:10:24 pm
How do I report errors in my results? I've been accredited with a 150km ECE for a 100km DIY I did from my house.  :D

Report the issue to your DIY org; they are best placed to progress the issue.
Thanks  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ningishzidda on August 22, 2016, 12:26:09 pm
How do I report errors in my results? I've been accredited with a 150km ECE for a 100km DIY I did from my house.  :D

Report the issue to your DIY org; they are best placed to progress the issue.
Thanks  :thumbsup:

Should it have been 150mm?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on September 01, 2016, 02:53:30 pm
^ very achievable clearly, but a little too willy-waving.

I do like the idea of an SR in a week though, but going somewhere new and beautiful (and probably not in the UK!) and spending a week riding, exploring and enjoying it.

I set up a series of events from Porto Vecchio in Corsica that would allow you to do this.  Plus a 120k for fettling or recovery.  Be warned that they are hilly.  The 600 had 9500m ascent.  There's a challenge!!!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on October 08, 2016, 10:52:57 am
Has anyone had an ECE from late September credited?

I know Martin was away around that time. He kindly checked my brevet from abroad, but I knew it wouldnt get on the system until at least his return to the UK.

Don't want to hassle the chap (as there is no rush), so I thought I'd ask around, just to get an idea whether mine got missed!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: The Bonk on November 16, 2016, 07:16:23 am

Does anyone have details, ideally old route cards or a gpx for the Dovedale and Staffordshire Moorlands 160 Audax, which I believe started in Clowne?
I'm guessing it's not run anymore. I was hoping to make a DIY GPS from it.

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: andytk on November 17, 2016, 09:49:19 am
Have you seen this write up? There might be just enough detail to piece together the route...

http://www.meiring.org.uk/pdm/Audax/2004_Clowne_160.html
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: The Bonk on November 17, 2016, 02:04:17 pm

Yes, that's the only reference I can find on it. I'll try and put a route together from that ride report if I hear nothing else.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Whitedown Man on December 19, 2016, 05:20:25 am
Am I right in thinking that a 500km DIY would count as the "400" leg of an SR and earn me 5 points?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 19, 2016, 05:43:31 am
Yes
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Whitedown Man on December 19, 2016, 10:29:36 am
Yes
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Paul H on January 16, 2017, 02:10:26 pm
Virtual DIY cards, I’ve lost count  :facepalm:
I bought some individually, then two lots, used some, DNS a couple, had a DNF GPX failure on one and now can’t work out how many I have left.
When I send off an entry, will the system know if I have a paid for card?  Is there any way of seeing what cards I have?
I’m not that fussed, except I wouldn’t want to do a ride only to find it wasn’t valid because I hadn’t paid for a card.
Thanks
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fboab on January 16, 2017, 02:15:08 pm
Your DIY organiser will be able to tell you what you have outstanding. Pop him an email.

'The system' isn't universal.

Imagine that Alas Smith & Jones sketch about post office bank accounts.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feanor on January 16, 2017, 02:36:53 pm
There's no central record of virtual brevets.
You just have to keep track yourself.
The DIY orgs usually keep track on a spreadsheet or the back of a fag packet or something.

If you were to submit an entry and then rode it,  and it turned out you had miscounted and were out of cards,  all that would happen is you'd have to top up your stock of brevets before the org would validate it.

They are not looking for admin technicalities to non validate.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on January 16, 2017, 02:45:25 pm
Thanks Boab and Feanor, perfect answers I reckon, saved me writing one  :)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Paul H on January 16, 2017, 02:52:39 pm
Thanks all, I'll ask the organiser.
Then keep better count :-[
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wycombewheeler on January 26, 2017, 04:00:02 pm
Virtual DIY cards, I’ve lost count  :facepalm:
I bought some individually, then two lots, used some, DNS a couple, had a DNF GPX failure on one and now can’t work out how many I have left.
When I send off an entry, will the system know if I have a paid for card?  Is there any way of seeing what cards I have?
I’m not that fussed, except I wouldn’t want to do a ride only to find it wasn’t valid because I hadn’t paid for a card.
Thanks
Every time I use one my DIY organiser tells me how many I have left in the acknowledgement email. Do you have the information in your last recieved email from yours?

Or just drop him an email to ask.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Paul H on January 27, 2017, 10:20:29 am
Virtual DIY cards, I’ve lost count  :facepalm:
I bought some individually, then two lots, used some, DNS a couple, had a DNF GPX failure on one and now can’t work out how many I have left.
When I send off an entry, will the system know if I have a paid for card?  Is there any way of seeing what cards I have?
I’m not that fussed, except I wouldn’t want to do a ride only to find it wasn’t valid because I hadn’t paid for a card.
Thanks
Every time I use one my DIY organiser tells me how many I have left in the acknowledgement email. Do you have the information in your last recieved email from yours?

Or just drop him an email to ask.
Thanks, all sorted now and keeping better count.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: JamieD on January 29, 2017, 08:25:45 pm
With the retirement of Steve Snook what does this mean for people aiming for AAA RRTY?

I understand that DIYs aren't going to be able to checked for AAA points. Is it the case that AAA rated perms will still count?

What about riding an AAA calendar event as a DIY?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on January 29, 2017, 08:48:41 pm
Oliver Iles is the new AAA Man, and AAARTY is in safe hands!

AAAs will go on being available for GPS DIYs.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: telstarbox on February 02, 2017, 12:53:15 pm
Hello all, long time reader, first time poster.

I'm planning to do my first DIY on Sunday as "Advisory by GPS". I've had my route and controls approved and paid for a virtual brevet.

The AUK website says that it's advisable to collect alternative evidence in addition to GPS in case the track doesn't record for whatever reason. Should this include something at the start point as well as intermediate controls and the finish point? Is there anything which can be used other than receipts?

Cheers.


Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: D.A.L.E. on February 02, 2017, 01:08:57 pm
Other than receipts, I tend to use selfies taken with snapchat (I look adorable with the puppy filter).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: The Bonk on February 03, 2017, 08:48:35 am
(I look adorable with the puppy filter).

I can vouch for that.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bloat on March 09, 2017, 02:14:54 pm
My prefered GPS recording device is the Strava Android app. Can you use a GPS track downloaded from Strava for proof of a mandatory DIY ride?

The detailed instructions at aukweb make it sound like possibly not?

"Processing the file in some software or websites can remove some of those elements and give the appearance of tracklog created by a computer.
AUK expects ‘raw data’ as far as possible."

Thanks!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: adrianfitch on March 09, 2017, 04:00:08 pm
Yes, you should also get something at the start and finish. That way you can show that everything was within the time limits.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jsabine on March 09, 2017, 05:49:36 pm
Speak to your friendly (yes, really!) local DIY organiser - better to agree in advance what he'll expect to see from you ...

Speaking (naturally) from a position of complete ignorance, my naive assumption would be that the app generates a track which is then uploaded to Strava at the end (rather than, say, relying on a constant data link to send a stream of position updates so the track can be generated on the site). If it's possible to extract this raw track - maybe it's as simple as it being saved to something like an Apps/Strava/GPX folder on your device - I'd guess that's the best format to submit, as unprocessed as possible.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: grams on March 10, 2017, 01:04:52 am
You can go to the Strava website and select Export as GPX from the spanner menu. That's not really any different from grabbing it direct from the device.

As always, you should think about having a second GPS device (even a second phone running Strava) as there are so many ways for a recording to go wrong.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fuaran on March 10, 2017, 01:46:55 am
If it's possible to extract this raw track - maybe it's as simple as it being saved to something like an Apps/Strava/GPX folder on your device - I'd guess that's the best format to submit, as unprocessed as possible.
Not possible as far as I can tell. At least not easily. Don't think you can access the app data folder unless you have rooted your phone. And I suspect it records the track in some non-standard format anyway.

Yes, its easy to export a GPX or TCX from the Strava website. It seems to be mostly 'raw data', including heart rate and cadence. Not sure if it would have been processed with Strava's elevation corrections, but that shouldn't make much difference for audax.

There are plenty of other Android apps that can record a track, and save as GPX format. They may be more reliable and use less battery than the Strava app.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: telstarbox on March 10, 2017, 01:13:44 pm
My prefered GPS recording device is the Strava Android app. Can you use a GPS track downloaded from Strava for proof of a mandatory DIY ride?

The detailed instructions at aukweb make it sound like possibly not?

"Processing the file in some software or websites can remove some of those elements and give the appearance of tracklog created by a computer.
AUK expects ‘raw data’ as far as possible."

Thanks!

I used the Strava Android app to validate my DIY, sending the GPX track to the organiser, and it was fine. However on other rides I've occasionally had issues with Strava missing out sections of the rides, joining up two points with a straight line. So proof of passage is a good idea for backup.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bloat on March 12, 2017, 08:42:19 pm
Thanks everyone for the responses.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bongobob1970 on March 30, 2017, 02:08:28 am
I am looking to create my 1st mandatory by GPS and I have a few questions....

1. Do I have to name start/finish on my virtual brevet?

2. Do I need to name controls along the way?

Or will the whole ridden track log be validated against the intended route that was previously submitted?

Thanks
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on March 30, 2017, 07:26:20 am
1. Do I have to name start/finish on my virtual brevet?

You do have to name them on your entry form.

2. Do I need to name controls along the way?


Yes, at intervals of about 50-80km. (Names of places on the route is all you need, as precise locations are already specified by your intended track.)

Or will the whole ridden track log be validated against the intended route that was previously submitted?


It will be validated against the intended route, but you still need to name controls, as above. It isn't either/or, it's both.

All is presented in more detail at

http://www.aukweb.net/diy/routes/mandatoryprocss/

It seems much simpler when you've done it a couple of times!

Good luck and happy riding.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bongobob1970 on March 30, 2017, 02:10:01 pm
Great many thanks tonyh for that, yes as you say its probably more complicated reading what is required rather than to do it!

Regards :) :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Phil W on April 02, 2017, 02:46:49 pm
Plan your route. Pick villages at between 50-80km apart on your route. Put villages (with county), plus start / finish in the form with your GPX track.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bongobob1970 on April 02, 2017, 11:11:53 pm
Thanks Phil,

Seems straight forward now :thumbsup:

Regards
BB
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on April 21, 2017, 07:51:20 pm
What's the time limit for a DIY 200? 12h30? (I'm sure this has been asked and answered before but... And yes I did look on the aukweb but couldn't find anything about time limits or minimum speeds there.)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jsabine on April 21, 2017, 08:05:01 pm
$Distance / 14.3km/h, which generally gives you 14 and a bit hours.

Standard time limit for a BRM 200 is 13hr30min.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on April 21, 2017, 08:22:56 pm
Thank you.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on April 21, 2017, 08:29:46 pm
... so if the distance* is 214.3 km, you've got exactly 15 hours.

*for Mandatory Route entries, that's the whole distance of your route;
  for Advisory Route entries, it's the shortest on-road distance between your stated controls, which is likely to be less than the distance you actually choose to ride.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on April 23, 2017, 05:53:31 pm
This is a truly random and totally abstract question: do you need a cycle to take part in an audax or could you, theoretically, do it on foot? IanN calculated yesterday (yes, I shared this stupid thought with him) that if an Olympic class marathonist could carry on at the same pace for another 160km they could complete a 200 within the time limits. Someone, somewhere, is bound to be able to do it – but anyone who can do it surely has their sights on bigger goals than a somewhat obscure, slightly geeky and non-remunerative semi-sporting activity! (I reckon the answer is that AUK regs don't actually require a cycle, just "human muscular effort", so it would be allowable.)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on April 23, 2017, 05:55:29 pm
Already an AUK brevet has been completed on a skateboard.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fuaran on April 23, 2017, 06:45:32 pm
Not sure if there's an official record for running 200km. The world record for 24 hours is 303 km (on the track), so a bit slower than audax BR speeds.
A Brevet Populaire can have more relaxed speeds. So you could have a 50km with a limit of 5 or 6 hours, which would be doable by many ultrarunners.

Don't know if it would be allowed under the AUK regulations. They do say "AUK events are cycle rides". But does it actually specify that you need to ride a "cycle" of some sort?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: grams on April 23, 2017, 07:46:54 pm
There are a few 50 km rides in the calendar with a 10 km/h minimum. If you can run a marathon (42 km) in 4 hours - which is a completely average time - that should be easily doable.

(annoyingly none of them are even vaguely local, or I'd have a crack at it. Maybe next year...)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on April 24, 2017, 08:52:51 am
Already an AUK brevet has been completed on a skateboard.
When and where was that?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on April 24, 2017, 09:21:51 am
It was about 25 years ago and it was a place-to-place (not a circuit) populaire that started quite a bit higher than it finished.  It also had an element of rough off-road so a bit of running with the skateboard under the arm was involved.

More notably PBP has been ridden, and with a good time, on a kick-scooter.  I think that has subsequently been outlawed by ACP.

AUK current regs:
Quote
9.3 Any kind of cycle may be ridden, with the following conditions:
9.3.1 The cycle is propelled solely by human effort. ...

(Despite this, AUK seem to be relaxed about participants on electrically-assisted bikes)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on April 24, 2017, 09:22:12 am
It was before my time. frankly frankie and some other long-term AUKs will have the details but from memory it was a hilly 60km BP down in the southwest and he tended to jog past riders up steeper hills.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on April 24, 2017, 09:25:03 am
After Alpo's scooter PBP03, the ACP requires non-chain-driven machines to be approved by the organisers. Reputedly that is to keep rollerbladers out. I'd be astounded if a belt-drive bicycle hasn't already been ridden round PBP but can't recall a specific person who has done so off the top of my head.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on April 24, 2017, 09:35:28 am
Sounds as if ACP are strict about cycles being cycles whereas AUK are more relaxed.
It was about 25 years ago and it was a place-to-place (not a circuit) populaire that started quite a bit higher than it finished.  It also had an element of rough off-road so a bit of running with the skateboard under the arm was involved.

More notably PBP has been ridden, and with a good time, on a kick-scooter.  I think that has subsequently been outlawed by ACP.

AUK current regs:
Quote
9.3 Any kind of cycle may be ridden, with the following conditions:
9.3.1 The cycle is propelled solely by human effort. ...

(Despite this, AUK seem to be relaxed about participants on electrically-assisted bikes)
Electrically assisted bikes are only allowed on BPs not BRs, aren't they? Or maybe they're allowed to enter BRs too but don't get validated or something?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on April 24, 2017, 09:56:24 am
If I had my bike stolen with (say) less than 1/4 still to ride, I'd like to think I'd be validated after completing on foot. That's not unfeasible on a multi-day event, where lots of riders build up a buffer of >10 hours.

I can understand not wanting ultra-runners on an event (though I've nothing against runners per se). They don't allow bikes on _their_ events!

We're into pretty fringe situations here, but it's an interesting discussion  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on April 24, 2017, 10:20:19 am
Sounds as if ACP are strict about cycles being cycles whereas AUK are more relaxed.
It was about 25 years ago and it was a place-to-place (not a circuit) populaire that started quite a bit higher than it finished.  It also had an element of rough off-road so a bit of running with the skateboard under the arm was involved.

More notably PBP has been ridden, and with a good time, on a kick-scooter.  I think that has subsequently been outlawed by ACP.

AUK current regs:
Quote
9.3 Any kind of cycle may be ridden, with the following conditions:
9.3.1 The cycle is propelled solely by human effort. ...

(Despite this, AUK seem to be relaxed about participants on electrically-assisted bikes)
Electrically assisted bikes are only allowed on BPs not BRs, aren't they? Or maybe they're allowed to enter BRs too but don't get validated or something?

E-bike riders are allowed to enter BPs but are not eligible for validation. E-bikers aren't allowed to enter BRs.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: andrew_s on April 25, 2017, 12:21:06 am
It was about 25 years ago and it was a place-to-place (not a circuit) populaire that started quite a bit higher than it finished.  It also had an element of rough off-road so a bit of running with the skateboard under the arm was involved.
I remember it as being the Cut Gate roughstuff event, done by Graham Moult on skateboard.
(The Cut Gate track is between Langsett and Ladybower reservoirs, in the Dark Peak)
(http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/01/97/96/1979632_00c2c5cb.jpg)
(from geograph (http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1979632))
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: The Bonk on April 25, 2017, 07:01:35 am

Is this still organised? If not does anyone have the route?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on April 25, 2017, 09:32:32 am
Another year Graham also rode that on tandem with Sheila stoking.  She says she's never been more terrified, not least because they finished with several fewer spokes than when they started.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on April 25, 2017, 11:11:24 am
It was about 25 years ago and it was a place-to-place (not a circuit) populaire that started quite a bit higher than it finished.  It also had an element of rough off-road so a bit of running with the skateboard under the arm was involved.
I remember it as being the Cut Gate roughstuff event, done by Graham Moult on skateboard.
(The Cut Gate track is between Langsett and Ladybower reservoirs, in the Dark Peak)
(http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/01/97/96/1979632_00c2c5cb.jpg)
(from geograph (http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1979632))
Wow. Impressive. In many ways. That does't look like somewhere to go skateboarding to me – or audaxing. It looks like somewhere to maybe sit down, make a cup of tea, enjoy the sunshine and pitch camp with some friends. Beautiful however you get there.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hellymedic on April 26, 2017, 03:35:48 pm
I thought the point of 'skateboarding' here was not skateboarding but covering parts on foot with rather more portable wheels than a bike.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: citoyen on April 26, 2017, 03:39:05 pm
Probably been asked before, but I can't find the answer - please slap me and point me in the right direction if I'm missing something obvious...

Is it possible for a Perm organiser to validate a ride from a GPX track? ie the rider submits the GPS track rather than traditional PoP.

I'm asking this as a would-be Perm organiser who would like to be able to offer this facility (not suggesting that all Perm organisers should offer the option).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on April 26, 2017, 04:51:26 pm
I thought the point of 'skateboarding' here was not skateboarding but covering parts on foot with rather more portable wheels than a bike.
Yup, that was my interpretation. A runner with minimal luggage beats a mountain-biker if the terrain is bad enough.

A bit like ski-mountaineering* - you use your feet to get up/over/through the tricky/technical bits. Then deploy lightweight attachments to feet for the smoother flat/downhill bits.

 (not sure if skateboards descend faster than bikes on tarmaccced descents? It's possible; they probably have less aero-drag. Assuming good quality wheel bearings.EDIT: yes Cudzo, the wheels could have a lot of friction. No idea of the numbers! )


*I have no idea what the correct term for this is!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on April 26, 2017, 05:35:13 pm
I'd imagine that four small plastic wheels have more drag than two pneumatic tyres. Certainly skateboarders don't seem to descend as fast as bikes. Lack of brakes might prove an inhibiting factor too; for some at least...
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jsabine on April 26, 2017, 06:18:08 pm
Probably been asked before, but I can't find the answer - please slap me and point me in the right direction if I'm missing something obvious...

Is it possible for a Perm organiser to validate a ride from a GPX track? ie the rider submits the GPS track rather than traditional PoP.

I'm asking this as a would-be Perm organiser who would like to be able to offer this facility (not suggesting that all Perm organisers should offer the option).

It is possible in principle.

There's kind-of-sort-of a trial at the moment with a couple of organisers (Somnolent being one), and there are a couple of other organisers who have the software so do it unofficially.

Basically, ask Somnolent.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: citoyen on April 26, 2017, 06:36:28 pm
Thanks, both - that all sounds highly promising.

ETA: although I hope that by raising this matter I haven't inadvertently kicked a hornet's nest... that was certainly not my intention.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Phil W on April 26, 2017, 06:53:51 pm
It was about 25 years ago and it was a place-to-place (not a circuit) populaire that started quite a bit higher than it finished.  It also had an element of rough off-road so a bit of running with the skateboard under the arm was involved.
I remember it as being the Cut Gate roughstuff event, done by Graham Moult on skateboard.
(The Cut Gate track is between Langsett and Ladybower reservoirs, in the Dark Peak)
(http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/01/97/96/1979632_00c2c5cb.jpg)
(from geograph (http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1979632))
Wow. Impressive. In many ways. That does't look like somewhere to go skateboarding to me – or audaxing. It looks like somewhere to maybe sit down, make a cup of tea, enjoy the sunshine and pitch camp with some friends. Beautiful however you get there.

Mountain bike you can fly along that as it's fairly tame terrain when you have suspension. But yeah, road bike with slicks, somewhat slower.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on April 28, 2017, 09:34:27 am
ETA: although I hope that by raising this matter I haven't inadvertently kicked a hornet's nest... that was certainly not my intention.

If you look at the page for example for this Permanent:
http://www.aukweb.net/perms/detail/PL02/ (http://www.aukweb.net/perms/detail/PL02/)
and the text in blue near the top of that page:
This permanent event can be Validated by GPS.
This is an option selectable by you during entry.
This means that you would submit a ridden tracklog in place of paper proofs of passage.

Currently there are just 12 Perms set up in this way, but I imagine it will be a growth area.  The Perm does need to be enterable by PayPal, and you as org do need to supply (one time only) a small 'outline' gpx file describing the route - basically just one point per control.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: citoyen on April 28, 2017, 12:48:05 pm
If you look at the page for example for this Permanent:
http://www.aukweb.net/perms/detail/PL02/ (http://www.aukweb.net/perms/detail/PL02/)

Thanks. I'd had a cursory look through the Perms list for such evidence but hadn't found it.

Quote
Currently there are just 12 Perms set up in this way, but I imagine it will be a growth area. The Perm does need to be enterable by PayPal, and you as org do need to supply (one time only) a small 'outline' gpx file describing the route - basically just one point per control.

Sounds promising.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: IJL on May 01, 2017, 04:48:16 pm
A random DIY by GPS question, the form for submitting the route requires a date of the ride.  Does the ride have to take place on the date or once the route is approved can it be ridden at anytime?

on the subject of GPS routes, how accurate are the online planners, I use bikehike, how big a margin of error do you leave to ensure the route is 200km

Thanks
Ian

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on May 01, 2017, 06:22:12 pm
Ian, the basic rule is that you have to say when you are going to ride before you actually set off. The DIY organiser may accept a change to the date you put on the form, as long as you give it in advance of the ride - check with your organiser.

For the "enough distance" thing, it's often better (and easier) to plan for (eg) 205 km than for 200.5 km... and it depends which type of entry you are making:

Mandatory Routes (using your GPS device to show that you covered the exact route): usually easy to get a reliable(-ish) figure from one of the online mapping sites/planners.

Advisory Routes (using your device only to show that you did visit your specified controls): these are the ones where only the shortest on-road distance between your specified controls counts towards the 200, and this is much harder to be sure about. You'll probably need a few extra km to be sure it's enough, and on the day you'll probably ride even further (and will be able to enjoy more freedom, as well as the extra distance!)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on May 01, 2017, 09:22:42 pm
...the basic rule is that you have to say when you are going to ride before you actually set off...

If you make a last-minute entry, you are unlikely to get a reply from the organiser of course, but you should get an auto-reply to confirm that your entry is in (if you don't get the auto reply, try sending the entry again, and/or email the org.)

As long as your entry is in, and is ok, you don't need the route to be "approved" by the org (though you may get an "ok" if there is time, and if the org is not away/ill/backlog-beset...)

Happy riding of all sorts!

Tony
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: IJL on May 01, 2017, 09:33:48 pm
Thanks for the help. 
Ian
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: telstarbox on May 03, 2017, 11:58:33 am
Tried to find this in the FAQ thread.

For a DIY 50/100/150km, is the overall time limit calculated from the points distance or the actual distance between controls?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on May 03, 2017, 12:22:59 pm
It's the "actual" distance.

10km/hour minimum for DIYs less than 200km, so, examples:

Mandatory Route 100, actual route distance 110km: maximum time 11.00 .

Advisory Route 100: shortest on-road distance between your Controls 110km: maximum time 11.00 . NB if you actually ride 140 km, the maximum time is still 11.00 .
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wycombewheeler on May 03, 2017, 11:37:22 pm
Easter seems nice and late in 2019, conducive to an arrow. BUT 2019 is also a PBP year. So can the arrow count as the 400 in the qualifying series? Or should I move my arrow plans forward to 2018?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wycombewheeler on May 03, 2017, 11:40:40 pm
What's the best way to enter perms, I'm thinking of doing a grimpeurs du sud qualifying 20p in July. I figured best to get the entry in and have the brevet card ready for whichever date I choose. but when entering the systems asks for a date to ride. Is the date filled in when entering binding?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on May 04, 2017, 05:40:01 am
No, the Easter Arrow is not a PBP qualifier.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: telstarbox on May 04, 2017, 07:58:30 am
What's the best way to enter perms, I'm thinking of doing a grimpeurs du sud qualifying 20p in July. I figured best to get the entry in and have the brevet card ready for whichever date I choose. but when entering the systems asks for a date to ride. Is the date filled in when entering binding?

Double check with the organiser for the perm - my organiser for DIYs allows date changes up to 2359 the day before.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wycombewheeler on May 04, 2017, 10:00:59 am
No, the Easter Arrow is not a PBP qualifier.
Thanks,  figured that would be the case.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on May 04, 2017, 10:43:40 am
What's the best way to enter perms, I'm thinking of doing a grimpeurs du sud qualifying 20p in July. I figured best to get the entry in and have the brevet card ready for whichever date I choose. but when entering the systems asks for a date to ride. Is the date filled in when entering binding?

Double check with the organiser for the perm - my organiser for DIYs allows date changes up to 2359 the day before.
A certain DIY org accepts entries with a ride date 99 years in the future. He then allow riders to bring forward their ride at the last minute e.g. by sending an email just before they start (or possibly the night before - I haven't tested this arrangement yet!)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: citoyen on May 04, 2017, 12:14:41 pm
No, the Easter Arrow is not a PBP qualifier.
Thanks,  figured that would be the case.

Only BRM rides within the right date periods can be qualifiers.

In 2015, all the valid qualifying rides were highlighted on the online calendar. Presumably a similar arrangement will apply in 2019.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wheelerjiwa on May 06, 2017, 12:51:33 am
I'm riding the Kernow & South-west 600 as a perm with a friend at the end of May. Wondering if anyone knows a decent place to get some sleep in the Bude area. Finding it hard to find anywhere we can check in late, so looks like it may have to be an Audax hotel unless anyone can recommend a  place?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wheelerjiwa on May 07, 2017, 11:20:50 pm
Found a nice BnB in Bude where we can let ourselves in late at night so all sorted!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: whosatthewheel on June 08, 2017, 08:21:22 am


Only BRM rides within the right date periods can be qualifiers.

In 2015, all the valid qualifying rides were highlighted on the online calendar. Presumably a similar arrangement will apply in 2019.

As I understand, entries for PBP are staggered: first those who have completed a 1000 the year before, then 600, then 400 and so on... I am right in assuming that also these events need to be BRM and BR don't count?

Also, for a Rand 1000 award, is that OK to have 3 x 200 + 1 X 400?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on June 08, 2017, 09:45:09 am
Yes, only BRMs count towards PBP.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: chris n on June 08, 2017, 10:41:40 am
for a Rand 1000 award, is that OK to have 3 x 200 + 1 X 400?

I think so. 

'13.2.4 The Randonneur Award Series ... For any distance a longer distance may be substituted.'
http://www.aukweb.net/official/aukregs/
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on June 08, 2017, 10:50:37 am
... and I would say not.   ;) ::-)

You need a 300, a 200 and a 100, and your 400 and 2x200s cover those three, using the longer-for-shorter provision.  That leaves you with one 200 and you need "plus another 400km worth of events".

You would only need to add a 100 to your 3x200 + 1x400 - that would give you 2x200s free to cover the extra 400km-worth required.

It's a good question that - I've never seen it raised before, in the 20-odd years this award has been rinning.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Greenbank on June 08, 2017, 11:25:31 am
There's someone (Rider number 1785) listed on the AUK site having done 2x200 and 2x300 and are listed as an R1000 so the strict interpretation of FF isn't what is being followed (by the website at least but that seems to be the trusted/canonical source).

(If the FF's interpretation was being used the 100, 200 and 300 would give 6 points regardless of the actual distance of those rides, taking 3 rides away, leaving only a 300km to give 900km not 1000km).

Note that the website also lists a condition of "You can substitute longer distances for shorter, but only rides up to and including 400km may be used."
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: whosatthewheel on June 08, 2017, 11:51:26 am
... and I would say not.   ;) ::-)

You need a 300, a 200 and a 100, and your 400 and 2x200s cover those three, using the longer-for-shorter provision.  That leaves you with one 200 and you need "plus another 400km worth of events".

You would only need to add a 100 to your 3x200 + 1x400 - that would give you 2x200s free to cover the extra 400km-worth required.

It's a good question that - I've never seen it raised before, in the 20-odd years this award has been rinning.

Do I really need to do another 100? It seems pretty pointless, I'd rather do another 200... in fact I'll probably have 4 x 200 + 1 x 400 by the end of the year, all being well
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on June 08, 2017, 12:02:36 pm
Then do another 200. FF was giving you the minimum distance option to qualify for the award.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: whosatthewheel on June 08, 2017, 12:11:28 pm
Then do another 200. FF was giving you the minimum distance option to qualify for the award.

I see, thanks.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Greenbank on June 08, 2017, 12:17:22 pm
An even better example. In the current results Rider 1891 is listed in the Randonneur 1000 list and has completed exactly 3x200 and 1x400.

Whether or not this is what the rules intended is moot since the AUK site is listing such riders as having obtained the award. I doubt they're going to retrospectively remove awards from such riders in the past, nor bother changing it for the future.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on June 08, 2017, 12:52:20 pm
I want to change it back to the original intent in future...
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on June 08, 2017, 04:33:39 pm
Interesting.  Well the two examples cited certainly illustrate what is IMHO an error - I don't really think the wording for that award is open to interpretation even though it is a bit clumsy**. 
The thing to do is to leave it for now obviously, but as LWB says make an adjustment for next season - either correct the calculation to match the wording, or alter the wording to match reality, eg "1000km in at least 4 events including at least 1 300".  The latter would involve a Regulation change.  (Incidentally the "only rides up to 400" condition doesn't seem to be in the Regulation.)

** when it was set up, the idea of the R1000 was to be a sort of SR-lite - ie a 400,300,200,100 series (=1000).  However at that time the Accessibility Police were strongly involved with defining the new awards, and wanted them to be attainable without any night-riding.  Hence the compulsory 400 was ditched in favour of "100, 200, 300, plus other events to a total of 1,000 km".
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on June 08, 2017, 04:37:33 pm
If we're goung to change the Regs, I think it would be good to discuss just what is the "spirit" of this award. I can understand the point of:

"a sort of SR-lite - ie a 400,300,200,100 series (=1000).  " /FF

I'm not sure I understand any other variation, but happy to be educated!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on June 08, 2017, 04:52:42 pm
It is already SR-lite, with no night riding required at all.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Greenbank on June 08, 2017, 05:02:18 pm
It is already SR-lite, with no night riding required at all.

For those who are fast enough to complete a 300 in the light, sure. Not everyone can do this, especially some of those who are stepping up to longer distances.

By the same logic you can probably claim that you can do a 600 in daylight, since it's just two consecutive 300km rides done in daylight.

The most daylight you get in a day the UK is about 17 hours so full value riders may have a couple of hours of riding in the dark, especially as there are few (if any) 300s that start near actual sunrise.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on June 08, 2017, 05:14:29 pm
A couple of hours of darkness isn't very much. The nominal R1000 'feels about right' as there is a noticeable difference between a 300 and a 400 for most folk and not that much between a 200 and a 300.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on June 09, 2017, 07:31:42 pm

... there is a noticeable difference between a 300 and a 400 for most folk and not that much between a 200 and a 300.
Certainly agree with that.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Ruthie on June 25, 2017, 08:19:16 pm
How do you manage your energy so that you can work for a living and do a hobby that's so demanding?

These days, I'm knackered after a week at work.  I don't have it in me to be riding hundreds of km every weekend.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: MikeFromLFE on June 25, 2017, 09:04:50 pm
How do you manage your energy so that you can work for a living and do a hobby that's so demanding?

These days, I'm knackered after a week at work.  I don't have it in me to be riding hundreds of km every weekend.
It's a fair question!
When I was riding Audax events (a few years ago now) and working - and working some very odd hours too - it was just 'normal'. I think your body & mind adjust to a different normality, and you just 'do it'. I think regular commuting by bike helps with the fitness.
I don't know how anyone does a hard physical job - but they do, it's their normal.
Nowadays I don't work (retired with two allotments, six grandchildren and a voluntary job) I'm too knackered to complete a 100k in time. If I had a regular commute, I think I might be a lot fitter, and able to adjust my normality to get back onto it!


Tapatalk puts this signature here, not me!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on June 28, 2017, 04:18:31 pm
These days, I'm knackered after a week at work.  I don't have it in me to be riding hundreds of km every weekend.

A committed randonneur could equally say:
Quote from: ff
These days, I'm knackered after a randonnee.  I don't have it in me to put in a proper shift at work on Mondays.

When I was a very active randonneur, I used to rationalise this by telling myself (and anybody else) that I was so good at my job that even a 60% Frankie could get it done OK.  Of course, in a modern work environment where 105% is expected at all times, colleagues and employers don't always see things this way ...
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wycombewheeler on June 28, 2017, 04:35:04 pm
How do you manage your energy so that you can work for a living and do a hobby that's so demanding?

These days, I'm knackered after a week at work.  I don't have it in me to be riding hundreds of km every weekend.
Work is mentally demanding, audax is physically demanding but gives me a good chance to switch the brain off for extended periods. Also it really helps reduce my stress levels.
So the only issue is getting enough sleep. 200s and 300s don't interfere with that for me.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on June 29, 2017, 12:25:51 pm
How do you manage your energy so that you can work for a living and do a hobby that's so demanding?

These days, I'm knackered after a week at work.  I don't have it in me to be riding hundreds of km every weekend.
Work is mentally demanding, audax is physically demanding but gives me a good chance to switch the brain off for extended periods. Also it really helps reduce my stress levels.
So the only issue is getting enough sleep. 200s and 300s don't interfere with that for me.
Pretty much as above. When I get home from work feeling "tired" it is mainly in my head. If I can drag myself out on the bike after work, once I am out I feel ready to go.

(Of course there are still a minority of First World Workers with physical jobs, but they're a shrinking minority, and tend not to waste their time on the internet ... )

I'd add that any really serious ride wipes me out for a day even if I get decent sleep. But most such rides also involve a lack of sleep, so it's rarely a separate issue!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Whitedown Man on July 05, 2017, 01:01:42 pm
Couldn't find an answer to this two-part question in the FAQs, so I throw myself at YACF's mercy. Say I wish to ride a mandatory route DIY that totals 520km, with intermediate "controls" identified every 50-80km.

1) Is my overall time limit 500/14.3 = 34hrs, 57mins  OR  520/14.3 = 36hrs, 21mins?

2) Do I need only complete the ride as a whole within the overall time limit, or must I also pass each intermediate control within the notional time limit for that control?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 05, 2017, 01:05:00 pm
520km and only the final control (in actuality).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Whitedown Man on July 05, 2017, 02:27:51 pm
^  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on September 10, 2017, 04:11:19 pm
What does this mean??

Facilities:X GMT

[http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/17-699/ ]
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Veloman on September 10, 2017, 04:18:58 pm
http://www.aukweb.net/events/facilitieskey/ (http://www.aukweb.net/events/facilitieskey/)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on September 10, 2017, 04:50:42 pm
Thanks.

The website auto-lookup [? icon] fooled me. I guess the org didn't format their code letters correctly, so the webby code chose to only translate "X." I was hoping that "GMT" was some wonderous new facility :P
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on September 10, 2017, 06:21:58 pm
It means that this route cannot be ridden between the last Sunday in October and the last Sunday in March.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: grams on September 25, 2017, 03:04:50 pm
What are the distances (and therefore closing times) in a brevet card based on? Minimum distance would seem like the obvious thing, but I've definitely done rides where they much more closely match the route sheet. The regulations don't specify this precise point. Is it an organiser discretion thing?

(I'll give the Willy Warmer as an example of not using minimum distance. It has a generous time limit based on a 209 km distance, but it's quite meandering and the minimum distance is definitely much shorter, possibly slightly under 200 km)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hellymedic on September 25, 2017, 03:11:28 pm
BRM give no extra time for overdistance so closing times are fixed at 13.30, 20.00, 27.00 and 40.00 for 200, 300, 400 and 600 respectively I think.

Otherwise, 2-4 minutes per kilometre for under 600km.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: grams on September 25, 2017, 03:23:22 pm
Otherwise, 2-4 minutes per kilometre for under 600km.

The question is, how is the given kilometreage for each control (and on BRs, the finish) arrived at?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hellymedic on September 25, 2017, 03:46:05 pm
It used to be the shortest route on AutoRoute.
I think it will now be the shortest walking/cycling distance on modern mapping SatNav software.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feanor on September 25, 2017, 04:08:21 pm
For DIYs, the Shortest Distance is determined from Google Maps set to Walking.

(This will sometimes give the 'wrong' answer where it routes over a footpath which is unsuitable for riding, and dragging the route back onto a road is generally considered OK, the route-shaping point not being considered a formal control.)

So I'd expect the same to be true for any new Cal events too.

Historic events which were planned long before mapping software will have distances measured manually from paper maps.  Some of them would not pass muster if they were proposed today, I expect. I had some bother trying to re-create some historic routes as DIYs based on the original controls.  They tended to come up under-distance.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on September 25, 2017, 04:26:28 pm
Seeing as some events just give a town or village name as a control, rather than a specific point, there could be a couple of kilometres difference between this cafe in the centre and that 24-hour petrol station on the outskirts; so is there any point being terribly accurate?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: grams on September 25, 2017, 04:39:16 pm
Thanks - but I think my question is more about intention than methodology - i.e. Are the numbers on the brevet card even meant to be representative of the distance by shortest route?

(I presume the reality is going to be more along the lines of "Whatever the organiser submits and the AUK bod doesn't object to")
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feanor on September 25, 2017, 05:52:57 pm
Are the numbers on the brevet card even meant to be representative of the distance by shortest route?

Yes.

They are calculated from the Shortest Distance to the control, divided by the Max / Min speeds ( typically 30/15kph, but not always ).
The Shortest Distance is assessed as I already described.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jsabine on September 26, 2017, 12:22:20 am
Are the numbers on the brevet card even meant to be representative of the distance by shortest route?

Yes.

They are calculated from the Shortest Distance to the control, divided by the Max / Min speeds ( typically 30/15kph, but not always ).
The Shortest Distance is assessed as I already described.

Yes, though sometimes it'll be routesheet distance.

I presume the reality is going to be more along the lines of "Whatever the organiser submits and the AUK bod doesn't object to")

Yes.

As ever, the golden rule is 'thou shall not take the piss.' Organisers are presumed to be not taking the piss, until proven otherwise. So are riders. Mostly.
Title: Random audax questions
Post by: citoyen on September 26, 2017, 08:14:03 am
(I presume the reality is going to be more along the lines of "Whatever the organiser submits and the AUK bod doesn't object to")

Yes, pretty much.

I would guess some organisers enter route sheet distances rather than minimum distances just so the riders aren't confused by any discrepancy between route sheet and brevet card. In the case of my 200, for which the advisory route is 3km over the minimum distance, that would amount to 12 minutes extra, so not a huge difference anyway.

Since routes are advisory, control times should strictly be based on minimum distances though. (Although as helly notes, finish times in a BRM are fixed regardless of minimum/advisory route distance.)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Greenbank on September 26, 2017, 08:47:44 am
For overdistance BRM rides there's some adjustment that goes on too, so that the last leg isn't overly short.

Consider a BRM 600 that is 620km by routesheet (or shortest distance, or whatever). There are controls at (routesheet distances) 500km and 580km.

If you take the 15-30kph limits and apply them to the distances without considering the total distance you get:-

500km = 500/15 = 33h20 + 6am start = 15:20
580km = 580/15 = 38h66 + 6am start = 20:40

Anyone riding to that schedule and scraping in to the last control at 20:35 would be unhappy to find they still have 40km to go and only 1h20 to do it (given the unbending 40h time limit).

If the routesheet distances are factored in you get:-

500km = 40h * 500/620 = 32h15 + 6am start = 14:15
580km = 40h * 580/620 = 37h25 + 6am start = 19:25

So the overdistance aspect is spread out over the whole ride. This explains why such a ride may have a control at 45km but it won't have the first control closing exactly at 9am:-

45km = 40h * 45/620 = 2h54 + 6am start = 8:54
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on September 26, 2017, 09:12:20 am
As far as I’m aware the Organisers handbook is silent on whether the distances shown on the Brevet represent the official route or shortest distance. Ideally they would be the same but they never are. As is, the control times published in the Brevet are derived from the registered control distances.

I’ve always taken the view the Brevet distances should match the official routesheet as it what most riders would expect though technically perhaps they should show the actual shortest allowed, but then showing different distances in the brevet and routesheet inevitably generates further confusion and debate, all of which acts to undermine AUK Events and Event Organisers.

The simplest way to resolve this is to list events with published routesheets with (LRM/BRM Compliant) ‘Mandatory' (set) routes. It's the only way to be sure.

I've just emailed my regional event organiser to request the calendar entries for the events I organise to be updated to indicate they have mandatory routes.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: citoyen on September 26, 2017, 11:51:02 am
As far as I’m aware the Organisers handbook is silent on whether the distances shown on the Brevet represent the official route or shortest distance.

It is indeed somewhat vague on this matter.

Quote
I've just emailed my regional event organiser to request the calendar entries for the events I organise to be updated to indicate they have mandatory/set routes.

Interesting. I didn't know that was an option.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on October 02, 2017, 10:31:47 am
It's an option but I guess then you as Organiser have to satisfy yourself (and ultimately AUK) that your riders are indeed following the prescribed route.  I think at the very least you would need to add an advice to the top of the routesheet:
YOU SHOULD FOLLOW THIS ROUTE AS CLOSELY AS POSSIBLE
or some such, possibly worded more strongly.  Of course it helps if you have a bullet-proof route (unusual these days, when there is so much avoidance of main roads) and if you don't, you might want to mount a secret control.   Or some other means of checking, such as GPS tracklog inspection.  All sounds too much?  Hence endless strings of ghastly Info controls.

As far as I’m aware the Organisers handbook is silent on whether the distances shown on the Brevet represent the official route or shortest distance. Ideally they would be the same but they never are. As is, the control times published in the Brevet are derived from the registered control distances.

I’ve always taken the view the Brevet distances should match the official routesheet as it what most riders would expect though technically perhaps they should show the actual shortest allowed, but then showing different distances in the brevet and routesheet inevitably generates further confusion and debate, all of which acts to undermine AUK Events and Event Organisers.

You'd need an online route sheet generator (similar to the way Google Maps, RWGPS etc generate route instructions) obviously tailored to cyclists' idiosyncrasies, which would then drive the intermediate distances on the brevet card, which in turn drives the opening and closing times**.  Although the standardisation would be welcome in some ways, I think we'd lose more than we gain, because I always found the differing route sheet styles to be part of the pleasure of audaxing.

** as you say, you enter the distance and the times are generated - though I suspect some organisers don't notice that it is possible to edit these times if you don't want them slavishly following the distance.  For example if your first control is a cafe 40km down the road, and you know it doesn't open until 09:30, then it's pointless really to have the control box opening at 09:20, and much neater to edit it in the Planner rather than altering the time with a pen on each card as I have often seen done.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on October 02, 2017, 12:28:14 pm
It's an option but I guess then you as Organiser have to satisfy yourself (and ultimately AUK) that your riders are indeed following the prescribed route.  I think at the very least you would need to add an advice to the top of the routesheet:
YOU SHOULD FOLLOW THIS ROUTE AS CLOSELY AS POSSIBLE
or some such, possibly worded more strongly. 

That assumes riders read the route sheet / rider notes, of course. :)

ISTM that secret controls are rather obsolete nowadays. Much simpler just to keep an eye out on social media for riders banging on publically about not following the published route without a good and valid reason, i.e., one which the org agrees with**, then DQ 'em.

Think of the hours of online fun that will generate!


* and its worth noting that where appropriate Orgs include alternate route options on the route sheet to allow for varying road/weather conditions.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on October 02, 2017, 01:11:36 pm
I'm sure I've even seen some to cater for differing tolerances of main roads.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Wycombewheeler on October 02, 2017, 02:29:52 pm
What happens if a shop or cafe till clock is off and it shows the riders as being too early or too late at an intermediate control on a perm/diy/x rated ride?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on October 02, 2017, 06:51:46 pm
Well if it's showing the right date I'd say that is a bonus.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on October 02, 2017, 07:01:38 pm
ISTM that secret controls are rather obsolete nowadays. Much simpler just to keep an eye out on social media for riders banging on publically about not following the published route without a good and valid reason, i.e., one which the org agrees with**, then DQ 'em.

Think of the hours of online fun that will generate!
I'd bet that most infringements - at least in the early days - will be due to GPS users following "illegal" tracks that didn't come with any warning from their creators.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on October 02, 2017, 08:20:45 pm
ISTM that secret controls are rather obsolete nowadays. Much simpler just to keep an eye out on social media for riders banging on publically about not following the published route without a good and valid reason, i.e., one which the org agrees with**, then DQ 'em.

Think of the hours of online fun that will generate!
I'd bet that most infringements - at least in the early days - will be due to GPS users following "illegal" tracks that didn't come with any warning from their creators.

Caveat Emptor!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marylogic on October 03, 2017, 04:15:48 pm
Now I'm really confused  ???
I thought it was perfectly acceptable to choose any route between controls as long as it's not a Mandatory route event?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hellymedic on October 03, 2017, 04:24:31 pm
I think it is for distance. AAA may be another matter.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on October 03, 2017, 04:34:50 pm
Now I'm really confused  ???
I thought it was perfectly acceptable to choose any route between controls as long as it's not a Mandatory route event?

yes indeed.

My post was a bit opaque - there was an unwritten intro: "In the case of Mandatory Routes ... "
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: marylogic on October 03, 2017, 05:11:50 pm
Cheers  :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: j_a_m_e_s_ on October 03, 2017, 09:03:35 pm
What happens if a shop or cafe till clock is off and it shows the riders as being too early or too late at an intermediate control on a perm/diy/x rated ride?

I've had this a few times.

A little note, and some fingers crossed have been okay for me on perms. Calendar events tend to mean everybody's are wrong, so no worry there.

Oddly enough it happened with today's receipts at Balcombe stores.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: dogtrousers on November 27, 2017, 03:05:25 pm
I'm thinking of being an AUK member next year... 

The basic fee for a new member is £19 for a calendar year, ending on December 31st, although new members joining late in the year will be subscribed until the end of the following year.

How late in the year is late?  It's not really important as I'm not planning to do any Audax events between now and Jan.  But I'm just curious.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Si S on November 27, 2017, 03:11:20 pm
After Aug 31st
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on November 27, 2017, 03:12:20 pm
It's definitely "late" enough now. The membership application form confirms "rest of this year free".

Happy Audaxing!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: dogtrousers on November 27, 2017, 03:36:38 pm
Thanks Si & Tony.  If I join  now it'll enable me to enter my planned early year rides as a member.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: j_a_m_e_s_ on January 25, 2018, 09:36:46 pm
If I ECE a 100+100, I get assigned 2perm points.

If it's a AAA event, but the ECE attracts no AAA, what would happen to my AAA poinmts? Would they stay assigned as BP or or would they become BR points?

(I'm trying to get an untarnished 100AAA from BR or BRM this season, but like the look of a few shorter events coming up)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on January 25, 2018, 09:50:24 pm
AAA gets totalled with no regard to distance. If you want to make a distinction, that is up to you.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: j_a_m_e_s_ on January 25, 2018, 10:01:29 pm
AAA gets totalled with no regard to distance. If you want to make a distinction, that is up to you.

But how does this page make the distinction?

http://www.aukweb.net/users/aaasec/aaa-total-brs.php (http://www.aukweb.net/users/aaasec/aaa-total-brs.php)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on January 25, 2018, 10:22:52 pm
I imagine that frankly frankie knows the answer.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on January 26, 2018, 10:57:07 am
If I ECE a 100+100, I get assigned 2perm points.

If it's a AAA event, but the ECE attracts no AAA, what would happen to my AAA poinmts? Would they stay assigned as BP or or would they become BR points?

(I'm trying to get an untarnished 100AAA from BR or BRM this season, but like the look of a few shorter events coming up)

Nominally, the BP event is administered as a standalone event with the ECE administered separately as an add-on, so if the BP has AAA points associated with it you should receive these automatically, regardless of the relative hillliness of the ECE.

The more interesting question is what happens if it's the ECE section which is eligible for AAA, or you have reason to belive there is a section of the BP and ECE route which in combination is eligible for AAA points. That you would have to take up with the ECE Secretary who I suspect would be sympathetic to your plight assuming you can provide appropriate evidence, i.e., a GPS track, to support your claim.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: andyoxon on January 26, 2018, 02:58:13 pm
Thought I'd ask this here instead... What is the benefit/rationale behind use of a mandatory route for a calendar event?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Greenbank on January 26, 2018, 03:01:20 pm
What is the benefit/rationale behind use of a mandatory route for a calendar event?

Removes the need for info controls to force the shortest-route-between-controls distance above the required minimum.

Also allows routes to be used where otherwise impossible to due lack of suitable control (or info control) locations.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on January 26, 2018, 09:03:31 pm
Thought I'd ask this here instead... What is the benefit/rationale behind use of a mandatory route for a calendar event?

Mandatory DIYs work because YOU choose the route YOURSELF.

On a calendar Audax the route is set by the ORGANISER, but only to the extent that you must pass through all the controls.   Often on a route set by someone else I find some bits of the route are less than ideal for my particular riding likes.  For me this might mean avoiding scraggy muddy lanes, or bridleways, or 10 km long gravel tracks..  with a bit of work beforehand I can often avoid the crap...

There are organisers out there who like to make routes harder than they need to be, and others who feel that a bit of off-road toughens the soul. Sure I’m happy for them to preset a lot of climbing by siting controls on hilltops, but I’m not happy on letting them direct me over crap, nor on possibly being routed on a high speed HGV main road...

Mandatory for your own choice = YES PLEASE

Mandatory using someone else’s choice = NO THANKYOU
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on January 27, 2018, 09:24:39 am
If I ECE a 100+100, I get assigned 2perm points.
If it's a AAA event, but the ECE attracts no AAA, what would happen to my AAA poinmts? Would they stay assigned as BP or or would they become BR points?
But how does this page make the distinction?
http://www.aukweb.net/users/aaasec/aaa-total-brs.php (http://www.aukweb.net/users/aaasec/aaa-total-brs.php)

I imagine that frankly frankie knows the answer.

Yes.

I think I would contest the original premise, that 100+100 = 2 perm points.  It may be, but any perm points are also BR points.  They have to be because Populaires don't carry points.
In this instance I think (without actually going through the 800 lines of code, which would be extremely tiresome) the AAA points follow suit. 

(The real problem is AUK's stupid insistence that ECEs are "a type of Permanent" - obviously thay are not.)  </rant>
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on January 27, 2018, 09:42:19 am
Thought I'd ask this here instead... What is the benefit/rationale behind use of a mandatory route for a calendar event?
Mandatory DIYs work because YOU choose the route YOURSELF.
On a calendar Audax the route is set by the ORGANISER, but only to the extent that you must pass through all the controls.   Often on a route set by someone else I find some bits of the route are less than ideal for my particular riding likes.

...

Mandatory using someone else’s choice = NO THANKYOU

Nevertheless the option does exist. 
Obviously you would need to be notified up-front, that it is to be run as a mandatory route - so you have the option of taking your custom elsewhere.

Here is such an event in the Calendar.  Note the 2nd line of red text, this is displayed for any mandatory route event.
http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/18-943/ (http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/18-943/)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: andyoxon on January 27, 2018, 12:47:52 pm
Thought I'd ask this here instead... What is the benefit/rationale behind use of a mandatory route for a calendar event?
Mandatory DIYs work because YOU choose the route YOURSELF.
On a calendar Audax the route is set by the ORGANISER, but only to the extent that you must pass through all the controls.   Often on a route set by someone else I find some bits of the route are less than ideal for my particular riding likes.

...

Mandatory using someone else’s choice = NO THANKYOU

Nevertheless the option does exist. 
Obviously you would need to be notified up-front, that it is to be run as a mandatory route - so you have the option of taking your custom elsewhere.

Here is such an event in the Calendar.  Note the 2nd line of red text, this is displayed for any mandatory route event.
http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/18-943/ (http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/18-943/)

Thanks.  This event has a mandatory route, though also 4 infos.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: grams on January 27, 2018, 04:01:20 pm
The organiser of that event (Manotea of this parish) has recently decided to run all his events as mandatory route. But that event has run many times previously so presumably the control format is unchanged.

It'd be interesting to know whether AUK would accept it if resubmitted with the info controls removed - I believe there've previously been few (or possibly zero) mandatory route calendar events, so we may be in uncharted territory.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: j_a_m_e_s_ on January 27, 2018, 06:24:28 pm
If I ECE a 100+100, I get assigned 2perm points.
If it's a AAA event, but the ECE attracts no AAA, what would happen to my AAA poinmts? Would they stay assigned as BP or or would they become BR points?
But how does this page make the distinction?
http://www.aukweb.net/users/aaasec/aaa-total-brs.php (http://www.aukweb.net/users/aaasec/aaa-total-brs.php)

I imagine that frankly frankie knows the answer.

Yes.

I think I would contest the original premise, that 100+100 = 2 perm points.  It may be, but any perm points are also BR points.  They have to be because Populaires don't carry points.
In this instance I think (without actually going through the 800 lines of code, which would be extremely tiresome) the AAA points follow suit. 

(The real problem is AUK's stupid insistence that ECEs are "a type of Permanent" - obviously thay are not.)  </rant>

I suppose there's only one way for me to find out......

I'll have a little peruse of the points table and see if I can find out.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on January 27, 2018, 06:24:46 pm
I’m confused as to why we seem to need mandatory calendar events.

Is the aim to check calendar event completion by GPS?

if so you don’t need manned or ‘receipt’ controls.....

Just set control points that everyone must ride through, just like DIYxGPS, but leave the rest of the route flexible to the individual’s choice.

If it’s really to avoid info controls on a calendar you can just set extra control points at the info positions, check the GPS, and of course you also won’t need volunteers at the normal control points.

If an organisers routes were already long enough with the controls and infos, why go mandatory - let’s just allow GPS monitoring for all.

Mind you there are many non GPS riders out there, and if organisers are going purely mandatory, how can a non GPS rider prove completion of the full mandatory route ? 

Mandatory calendar events would actually seem to discriminate against non GPS riders....

Maybe mandatory calendars are just to save the organisers doing any organising apart from route, start and arrivee ?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jsabine on January 27, 2018, 06:34:28 pm
I’m confused as to why we seem to need mandatory calendar events.

Because when we agreed to offer the option of mandatory routes, we thought it should apply to all categories of event, whether calendar, perm or DIY.

Very few calendar event organisers have opted for it, but it allows the option of planning a more convoluted route with the potential for shortcuts, without necessarily having to arrange an excessive number of controls.

There is no current provision for calendar events to offer GPS proof of passage. While it might become an option in the future, I don't see it becoming mandatory. Meantime, organisers can use (the threat of) secret controls to ensure route integrity on mandatory route events.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: j_a_m_e_s_ on January 27, 2018, 06:39:58 pm
If I ECE a 100+100, I get assigned 2perm points.
If it's a AAA event, but the ECE attracts no AAA, what would happen to my AAA poinmts? Would they stay assigned as BP or or would they become BR points?
But how does this page make the distinction?
http://www.aukweb.net/users/aaasec/aaa-total-brs.php (http://www.aukweb.net/users/aaasec/aaa-total-brs.php)

I imagine that frankly frankie knows the answer.

Yes.

I think I would contest the original premise, that 100+100 = 2 perm points.  It may be, but any perm points are also BR points.  They have to be because Populaires don't carry points.
In this instance I think (without actually going through the 800 lines of code, which would be extremely tiresome) the AAA points follow suit. 

(The real problem is AUK's stupid insistence that ECEs are "a type of Permanent" - obviously thay are not.)  </rant>

I suppose there's only one way for me to find out......

I'll have a little peruse of the points table and see if I can find out.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I have found and indivivual who has 11.5AAA points but is showing only 2 AAA points in the all round list - two AAA points which could only have come from 100+100 ECE.

It seems a BP + ECE AAA point is recorded as BR AAA points.

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bikey-mikey on January 27, 2018, 06:40:56 pm
I’m confused as to why we seem to need mandatory calendar events.

Because when we agreed to offer the option of mandatory routes, we thought it should apply to all categories of event, whether calendar, perm or DIY.

Very few calendar event organisers have opted for it, but it allows the option of planning a more convoluted route with the potential for shortcuts, without necessarily having to arrange an excessive number of controls.

There is no current provision for calendar events to offer GPS proof of passage. While it might become an option in the future, I don't see it becoming mandatory. Meantime, organisers can use (the threat of) secret controls to ensure route integrity on mandatory route events.

Thanks John for the clarification.

My opinion..
Secret controls are not very effective...... and can only prove that a rider was ‘on the route’ at that specific point...

Just ask a fast rider to text you when and where, and apart from that take the shortcuts...

Seem daft when we have mandatory DIYxGPS which checks everything.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on January 27, 2018, 06:46:48 pm
Every other country in the world manages to have compulsory route brevets and none of them require GPS tracks. Riders tend to self-police route deviations.

Secret controls can be at multiple locations along the route and there is no requirement for every rider in an event to have the same number of secret controls.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jsabine on January 27, 2018, 06:49:33 pm
Infos are even less effective than secret controls, by that argument, especially as a secret control doesn't have to be in the same place for every rider.

It's more about working on the basis of trust but verify - we trust that riders will generally follow the rules and the route, and sometimes we verify that they're doing it.

I don't really care much if someone cheats - after all, they're only cheating themselves etc etc - but I do l like the system to ensure that if they're cheating, they're having to actively take steps to do so.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: dim on January 28, 2018, 08:14:06 pm
I have not read the whole thread, but I have bookmarked it for later reading ...

a quick question (and sorry if it's been discussed before):

If you ride an audax, you have a route to follow that has Control points etc and you are given the route on RideWithGps

do you have to stick to that exact same route, or can you choose different roads that still pass through the contol points?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on January 28, 2018, 08:22:53 pm
Mandatory route events mean exactly that. Most events are advisory routes, so you can use whatever roads you like that get you to the controls within their time limits.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: dim on January 28, 2018, 08:31:30 pm
Mandatory route events mean exactly that. Most events are advisory routes, so you can use whatever roads you like that get you to the controls within their time limits.

thank you
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: telstarbox on February 18, 2018, 05:57:30 pm
What's the procedural difference between instant validation events where you take your card home, and the ones where you get your card back in the post?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: grams on February 18, 2018, 06:27:04 pm
From the organiser's handbook, organisers can offer it if:

Quote
- Your event is 200km or less (and not BRM)
- You use the Start/Finish List to submit your results online, and
- You have a previous record of prompt and accurate submission of results.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on February 18, 2018, 06:45:25 pm
Something that just came up on Facebook ...

Where did the idea of a fixed set-of-checkpoints (or fixed route ) come in/from? As opposed to merely a fixed distance betwixt Dawn And Dusk. Was it purely an Henri Desgrange idea?

I've flicked through the usual historical documents, and we seemed to leap from this:
Quote
THE IDEA OF AUDAX was first formulated in 1897 in Italy. One had to swim, run, walk, or cycle a set distance in 14 hours which was approximately the time between sunrise and sunset. The distance to be covered by cycling was 200 kilometres.

... to this ...

Quote
IN 1904 Henri Desgrange - the managing director of the magazine Auto visited Italy and was so impressed with the idea that he produced some regulations. These Audax regulations formed cyclists into groups, each with its captain, which stayed together for the entire ride. This method of riding is known today as Euraudax.
Now I'm not even sure if the Desgrange regs did specify fixed route? Can someone confirm?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Stretch on February 19, 2018, 12:23:05 pm
I'm planning my first DIY, it's a circular route and I was wondering if I have to ride it in the direction I have plotted the route that I submit or can I ride it opposite way around? Thinking about a tailwind home here...
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: chris n on February 19, 2018, 12:44:04 pm
Nope.  As submitted only.  But if you're confident your route is the right distance then entering online the night before (or even the morning of) the ride means you can pick which one to do.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Stretch on February 19, 2018, 12:51:47 pm
Thanks Chris,

Thought that might be the case, i didn't realise it was possible to enter a DIY at such short notice - are the DIY validators OK with that?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: chris n on February 19, 2018, 01:01:49 pm
In my experience, yes.  If you want feedback on your route then give them a bit more notice.  But in theory you can enter any time you like as long as it's before you start riding.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on February 19, 2018, 04:09:56 pm
Something that just came up on Facebook ...

Where did the idea of a fixed set-of-checkpoints (or fixed route ) come in/from? As opposed to merely a fixed distance betwixt Dawn And Dusk. Was it purely an Henri Desgrange idea?

I've flicked through the usual historical documents, and we seemed to leap from this:
Quote
THE IDEA OF AUDAX was first formulated in 1897 in Italy. One had to swim, run, walk, or cycle a set distance in 14 hours which was approximately the time between sunrise and sunset. The distance to be covered by cycling was 200 kilometres.

... to this ...

Quote
IN 1904 Henri Desgrange - the managing director of the magazine Auto visited Italy and was so impressed with the idea that he produced some regulations. These Audax regulations formed cyclists into groups, each with its captain, which stayed together for the entire ride. This method of riding is known today as Euraudax.
Now I'm not even sure if the Desgrange regs did specify fixed route? Can someone confirm?

The first Audax Italiano rides were point-to-point (the first was Naples-Rome, about 230km), ridden as a group with a captain setting the pace of the group to complete the route within the allowable time. The first French Audax brevets were much the same but more formalised and with loop courses becoming the norm. I'm not sure if the Italians stuck with point-to-point routes or also went to 'big loop' routes. I thought it was the French, not the Italians, who added other activities to the cycling brevets (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1200.0 gives the years each activity was introduced) but I've been wrong plenty of times before.

The French routesheets had specific times at each turn, which would be difficult to do without a fixed route. The routes were along the main roads (with the best surfaces to ride on) and were generally the shortest distance between those points. If there was a problem, it was the captain's responsibility to reroute the group around the problem. I think that the modern understanding of a mandatory route matches the historical format pretty well.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on February 19, 2018, 04:15:23 pm
you can enter any time you like as long as it's before you start riding.

You may need to check what your DIY Org finds acceptable (if it's me, any time before you actually set off is ok to put your entry in, as long as you're not wanting any feedback - as Chris says).

You should get an auto-reply to confirm that your entry did actually go in. If that doesn't come, try again (you may have failed to click "submit", eg).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: chris n on February 19, 2018, 04:45:38 pm
Eminently sensible - thanks Tony. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Stretch on February 20, 2018, 10:17:22 am
Thanks both,

A couple of route tweaks and I'll be giving it a go!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on February 20, 2018, 11:02:39 am
Quote
IN 1904 Henri Desgrange - the managing director of the magazine Auto visited Italy and was so impressed with the idea that he produced some regulations. These Audax regulations formed cyclists into groups, each with its captain, which stayed together for the entire ride. This method of riding is known today as Euraudax.
Now I'm not even sure if the Desgrange regs did specify fixed route? Can someone confirm?

I would suggest the fact that there is a captain and everyone else has to stay with heavily implies a fixed route, even if it is only inside the captain's head.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on February 20, 2018, 02:45:37 pm
<snippage>
...
Quote
IN 1904 Henri Desgrange - the managing director of the magazine Auto visited Italy and was so impressed with the idea that he produced some regulations. These Audax regulations formed cyclists into groups, each with its captain, which stayed together for the entire ride. This method of riding is known today as Euraudax.
Now I'm not even sure if the Desgrange regs did specify fixed route? Can someone confirm?

I would suggest the fact that there is a captain and everyone else has to stay with heavily implies a fixed route, even if it is only inside the captain's head.

I don't think so; you're probably inferring that, from decades of riding modern "audax" events :)

there are numerous possible variations;
- you could have pure exploration; like sea captains leaving Gibraltar to head West until they find *something*. Or
- a captain with appaling navigation skills, or
- a captain so supremely confident in his ability that he expects to find the destination from road-signs and a compass/sun. Or
- a captain with backup plans; perhaps planning a mountainous route with low-level options for bad weather.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on February 20, 2018, 02:56:51 pm
Proper Audax was and is ridden to a schedule. The routesheets published before the event have schedule times (to the minute) for each turn. You can't do that unless the route is fixed.

Audax routes were typically the major roads because they were the best surfaced (important in the days before asphalt) and had virtually no motor traffic. Similarly, the Great North Road (A1) and Portsmouth Road (A3) in England were some of the major British cycling routes before World War 1. PBP Randonneur was mostly routed on major roads until the 1970s, when some PBPers were killed by motor vehicles. PBP Audax stayed on big roads for a while afterwards (group riding and follow vehicles reduced the risk somewhat) but today is routed almost entirely on more minor roads.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on February 20, 2018, 05:33:24 pm
Proper Audax was and is ridden to a schedule. The routesheets published before the event have schedule times (to the minute) for each turn. You can't do that unless the route is fixed.

Audax routes were typically the major roads because they were the best surfaced (important in the days before asphalt) and had virtually no motor traffic. Similarly, the Great North Road (A1) and Portsmouth Road (A3) in England were some of the major British cycling routes before World War 1. PBP Randonneur was mostly routed on major roads until the 1970s, when some PBPers were killed by motor vehicles. PBP Audax stayed on big roads for a while afterwards (group riding and follow vehicles reduced the risk somewhat) but today is routed almost entirely on more minor roads.
Believe me, I'm  not disputing any of that!!!

But the above is all about recent times - I'm interested in events before and/or around 1904.

I suspect the answer is that we have very few records from those times, so it's a moot point. (We need a Dave Barter to scrutinise the written record properly ... )
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on February 20, 2018, 06:21:29 pm
Audax before 1904 wasn't formalised. Only Audax Italiano existed then and I'm not sure exactly what happened with them or how they ran or recorded things.

Once Audax Club Parisien was formed in 1904, then the whole circus started, with brevet cards, routesheets and everything else. Have a look at Jacques Seray's PBP books or Bernard Deon's UAF book (in French) for pictures of early brevet cards and routesheets. There hasn't been very much in the way of change since Audax began. Changes in maximum time for a 200km brevet of 14 hrs or 13.5 hrs is just fiddling round the edges; the basic concept hasn't noticeably changed.

The reason the ACP and other country's BRMs have mandatory routes now was because they grew out of Audax pre-1921 which also had mandatory routes. Pre-1931, Audax brevets were ridden at 18 kph between scheduled rest stops. The first PBP brevets were in 1931 and PBP31 Audax was ridden at 20 kph. The UAF 22.5 kph riding average came in after World War 2. Other than adding new awards every few decades and a couple of new brevet types (Fleche Velocio and Super Randonnee 600), the ACP have changed remarkably little over the years.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on February 20, 2018, 07:47:20 pm
Dave, thanks for your input  :thumbsup:

I'm sort of reading these replies back to front, and responding haphazardly; so I shall re-read your post referenced below properly, as it seems to contain some extra relevant info (and I failed to find it before asking my originial query):

The first Audax Italiano rides were point-to-point (the first was Naples-Rome, about 230km), ridden as a group with a captain setting the pace of the group to complete the route within the allowable time. The first French Audax brevets were much the same but more formalised and with loop courses becoming the norm. I'm not sure if the Italians stuck with point-to-point routes or also went to 'big loop' routes. I thought it was the French, not the Italians, who added other activities to the cycling brevets (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1200.0 gives the years each activity was introduced) but I've been wrong plenty of times before.

The French routesheets had specific times at each turn, which would be difficult to do without a fixed route. The routes were along the main roads (with the best surfaces to ride on) and were generally the shortest distance between those points. If there was a problem, it was the captain's responsibility to reroute the group around the problem. I think that the modern understanding of a mandatory route matches the historical format pretty well.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: telstarbox on March 12, 2018, 05:52:23 pm
Is this a mistake on the AUK website?

http://www.aukweb.net/aboutauk/faq/#055

BRM (Brevets de Randonneurs Mondiaux) events are run all around the world under the standard set of rules laid down by the ACP (Audax Club Parisien) and the rides are validated and recorded by them.  They are at standard distances, with a maximum of 5% over distance, and the maximum time limits for each distance is:
200km        14h30
   <Should this be 13h30?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on March 12, 2018, 06:54:51 pm
Yes, it should be 13.5 hours.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: telstarbox on March 12, 2018, 07:06:56 pm
I thought I was going mad because that's what the event listings say!

Is the webperson On Here or should I send an email via the website?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on March 12, 2018, 07:09:01 pm
Via the website is probably best.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: telstarbox on March 26, 2018, 04:05:21 pm
Me again.

(For calendar events) If the routesheet specifies a particular cafe for a control but there are other shops/pubs etc nearby (as in on the same street), can you get a receipt from elsewhere and use this as PoP?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: telstarbox on March 26, 2018, 04:05:43 pm
Via the website is probably best.

This has now been fixed.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: grams on March 26, 2018, 06:42:29 pm
Me again.

(For calendar events) If the routesheet specifies a particular cafe for a control but there are other shops/pubs etc nearby (as in on the same street), can you get a receipt from elsewhere and use this as PoP?

Are we talking a manned control or a "get a receipt" control?

The audax regs imply any form of PoP is acceptable. I think the organiser might raise an eyebrow if you don't have a stamp from a manned control, although I think they'd have to be very grumpy to refuse validation.

(I personally don't believe there's any obligation to buy something in a manned control if you want to eat elsewhere, if that's what the worry is)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: telstarbox on March 26, 2018, 08:20:25 pm
The notes don't make it clear but I think it's receipt rather than person with stamp.

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Feanor on March 26, 2018, 08:28:05 pm
If a particular venue is specified as the control, than I'd always use it ( unless it was on fire or something! )
I'd not regard a queue as reason to miss the specified control.

If the org was happy with you to control anywhere in the town, it would be specified as a Free control.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: citoyen on April 30, 2018, 05:35:09 pm
(For calendar events) If the routesheet specifies a particular cafe for a control but there are other shops/pubs etc nearby (as in on the same street), can you get a receipt from elsewhere and use this as PoP?

You'd have to ask the organiser why they specify a particular café. Could be any number of reasons.

For the Uckfield control on the Oasts & Coasts 300, the organiser leaves a sheet of stickers on the counter at the specified café, so you don't actually need to spend any money there to get your proof of passage, nor do you have to worry about being held up by queues. I'm sure he would accept a receipt from a different shop or café in town, but I do stop at Poppies because it's a decent, reasonably priced breakfast and service is super quick, even when busy.

On the same ride, for the Deal control, I used a shop in the town centre, rather than the one specified on the routesheet, on the edge of town. My receipt was accepted as PoP by the organiser, no questions asked. I think in that case the shop is specified because it is on the route (the one I used is slightly off route).
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: The Bonk on May 10, 2018, 10:06:53 am
Are there any articles anywhere (Arrivée maybe) on Bryan Chapman? I'm looking forward to my first BCM next week and would be interested to learn a bit more about the man. I've read about his trips to visit Tony Oliver on Anglesey, but wondered if there is anything a bit more in depth about his other adventures and mile eating.

Edit- After a bit more searching there is a piece in Arrivée No 64 - Spring '99. Does anyone have a spare copy?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: j_a_m_e_s_ on May 30, 2018, 05:51:49 pm
Assuming I do manage an SR this season, and I manage R5000, is there any reason why I can't purchase the old style badges instead of the new?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: cygnet on May 30, 2018, 06:04:20 pm
Not unless they run out:

http://audaxmedals.southportcc.co.uk/?product_cat=older-design-randonneur-badges-and-medals (http://audaxmedals.southportcc.co.uk/?product_cat=older-design-randonneur-badges-and-medals)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: j_a_m_e_s_ on May 30, 2018, 06:05:55 pm
I saw they was in stock, I just wondered if I had to have done them pre 2016.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jakemcree on June 28, 2018, 07:28:26 am
Can a DIY count towards a SR series?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on June 28, 2018, 07:30:01 am
For AUK, yes. Not for ACP (i.e. not for PBP).

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jakemcree on June 28, 2018, 07:46:04 am
Ok, thank you
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Stretch on June 28, 2018, 10:26:10 am
Folks,

I'm looking to do some perms in the future but I'm struggling to find local(ish) ones from the AUK website as they are listed by the originator rather than the location, I can't get the map thingy to work so could anyone suggest a work around please?
Would also be nice if it was possible to get an idea of the route too from the front page rather than having to unload a zip from (some) of the routes.

Apologies if it's been asked before but i can't find it in the FAQs.

Thanks
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: chris n on June 28, 2018, 10:31:21 am
That's about the shape of it.  You'll either have to look through them all or get familiar with the DIY system.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on June 28, 2018, 10:39:11 am
Indeedy.

There are probably 2 useful approaches that folks have used:

- If a ride looks of interest, google it, as someone might have posted a ride report or a GPX/mapping-site.

- Post a query on here (or AUK Forum, or Facebook) like:
"Can anyone recommend a perm [length x-y] [starting nr Upper Nicetown] [preferably hilly/flat ] ?

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Stretch on June 28, 2018, 12:49:01 pm
Thanks,

Think I'll start looking at DIYs  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Deano on June 28, 2018, 01:37:20 pm
Look at Chris Crossland's perms - he's taken over a lot of John Radford 's perms, some of which look like they go your way. And you can always contact him for more info.

I like DIYS though,  cos i like planning routes and you can start on your doorstep.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Stretch on June 28, 2018, 04:27:40 pm
Cheers Deano,

Found a couple that look interesting, always good to ride somebody else's routes but I will be giving the DIY job a go too, I have a couple of routes in mind that should make decent 200s
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: grams on June 29, 2018, 08:04:03 pm
What do the pluses on times in brevet cards mean?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: tonyh on June 29, 2018, 08:40:14 pm
Next day, ie after midnight. I think.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: grams on June 29, 2018, 11:36:10 pm
Yep, that makes perfect sense. Thanks.

And there was me thinking it might mean “This deadline is flexible. Take your time.”
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bludger on July 03, 2018, 10:50:24 am
Are there any calendar rides which have a late evening or very early morning start? Occurred to me during my last ride, in the 30 degree heat, that it'd be much much cooler either late in evenings or seriously early doors. Thinking of distances around 100-150km for the most part here rather than the full beans events.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: grams on July 03, 2018, 12:00:23 pm
If you go to the full calendar (http://www.aukweb.net/events/) you can scan through the start times of all events. Hereward the Wake 300 and the Dorset Ghost 150 are the only late starts I can spot.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: bludger on July 03, 2018, 12:20:59 pm
Cheers - both of those rides look great! Unfortunately I'm off to the land of clogs and waffles early on Saturday 14th so won't be able to make the 300. The Devon ride looks like a cracker! There's room in the calendar so I reckon I'm going to register  ;D
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: telstarbox on July 03, 2018, 12:24:30 pm
As 100/150km events are partly "intro" rides to the longer distances they're nearly always held during daylight. (It's not uncommon for winter 100s to start at 0930 or even 1000 for the same reason.)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: EllysH on July 06, 2018, 07:00:43 pm
Does anyone have a Key for route cards?

I seem to remember the Auk website had one, but I can't find it
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: D.A.L.E. on July 06, 2018, 07:13:20 pm
Are you not thinking of the facilities key? - http://www.aukweb.net/events/facilitieskey/

The format of the routesheet differs between organisers, but they're fairly self explanatory. What's baffling you?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: EllysH on July 06, 2018, 07:26:13 pm
Are you not thinking of the facilities key? - http://www.aukweb.net/events/facilitieskey/

The format of the routesheet differs between organisers, but they're fairly self explanatory. What's baffling you?


Oh damn, I was thinking of that.

Just puzzled, lots of $
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: D.A.L.E. on July 06, 2018, 07:37:49 pm
In what context? Something like 'R@T $ New York'?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Deano on July 06, 2018, 07:40:43 pm
It means signpost.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: EllysH on July 06, 2018, 08:22:37 pm
Ah, yes that context.

Well, now that I look suitably daft - I'll be off.

Sent from my PLK-L01 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jakemcree on July 18, 2018, 12:03:50 pm
Does anyone know where I can find the official route of LEL from last year? I'm looking to ride to Edinburgh next week from London and want to follow it.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frillipippi on July 20, 2018, 01:36:48 pm
Does anyone know where I can find the official route of LEL from last year? I'm looking to ride to Edinburgh next week from London and want to follow it.
I'm not sure they're the official ones, but you can find them on ridewithgps.com using the names of the controls as keywords (e.g. "Loughton StIves").
If you're definitely looking for the official ones, PM me and I'll attach them to you
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: grams on July 20, 2018, 02:21:35 pm
wilkyboy's unofficial routesheets and GPX files are still up:
http://www.camaudax.uk/rides/lel2017/
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: jakemcree on July 23, 2018, 03:37:45 pm
Found them, cheers guys
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: citoyen on August 02, 2018, 12:32:48 am
Want to register a new Perm but the form doesn't seem to be working - is it just me or is it a problem with the website?

https://www.cyclingnewforest.org/auk-perm-proforma.html

(I'm on a Mac and have tried both Chrome and Safari. Have also emailed PermSec.)

ETA: sorted. PermSec has sent me a new link - direct to the form itself rather than embedded in a web page - and it works fine.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: The Bonk on August 03, 2018, 02:19:27 pm
Apparently there was an article in Arrivée on riding in The Alps by Bob Bialek. Does anyone know which issue it was in?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: JonJo on August 09, 2018, 12:17:00 pm
I've paid for some virtual brevets to do some DIYs. Should I get some sort of acknowledgement from the organisor/validator or do I just assume I've got them and send in an entry form with a route?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: telstarbox on August 09, 2018, 12:19:55 pm
Just send your DIY entry in and the org can see how many you've got. If you send an entry in once you've run out, they will remind you to "top up" with some more.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: JonJo on August 09, 2018, 04:31:48 pm
Thanks @telstarbox
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: D.A.L.E. on August 13, 2018, 11:09:55 am
On the Aukweb site, is there any information about minimum speeds for certain distances? I.e. How it drops when you go above a certain distance etc.

Edit - Nevermind. It's in the regulations, subsection 9.7.1  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: D.A.L.E. on August 13, 2018, 11:22:41 am
Apparently there was an article in Arrivée on riding in The Alps by Bob Bialek. Does anyone know which issue it was in?
According to Bob, he's never ridden in the Alps.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: citoyen on August 21, 2018, 04:22:43 pm
Organisers/Controllers,

Where's a good place to get stamps that are suitable for marking brevet cards?

I've had a look at places like Rymans but haven't found anything I really like so far.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: D.A.L.E. on August 21, 2018, 04:58:56 pm
Organisers/Controllers,

Where's a good place to get stamps that are suitable for marking brevet cards?

I've had a look at places like Rymans but haven't found anything I really like so far.
Vistaprint/123print do custom or if you want more weird try Etsy.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: citoyen on August 21, 2018, 05:20:44 pm
Vistaprint/123print do custom or if you want more weird try Etsy.

Ooh, hadn't thought of Etsy - good suggestion, thanks!

Having done a bit more searching, I think the reason I've not been able to find what I want is that I've been looking for the wrong thing. Searching for "loyalty card stamps" turns up lots of promising results.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Exit Stage Left on August 21, 2018, 06:17:38 pm
Stamps Direct.

https://www.stampsdirect.co.uk/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlaeihtP-3AIVDrHtCh1R1Qk-EAAYASAAEgJRrvD_BwE
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: citoyen on August 21, 2018, 06:23:30 pm
Stamps Direct.

https://www.stampsdirect.co.uk/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlaeihtP-3AIVDrHtCh1R1Qk-EAAYASAAEgJRrvD_BwE

Funny you should mention Stamps Direct - I've just this minuted placed an order with them...  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Exit Stage Left on August 21, 2018, 07:07:33 pm
They're very good.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: citoyen on August 21, 2018, 07:14:38 pm
They're very good.

Good to have confirmation of that, thanks.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Whitedown Man on August 23, 2018, 01:26:13 pm
(Have consulted all the various FAQ pages and the AUK Regs but can’t find an answer to this one)

I have a vague memory that if a multi-day ride crosses an official time boundary then there’s a degree of latitude allowed in terms of the date to which it gets officially allocated - but an equally vaguely memory suggests that this might just be an RRtY thing rather than a points table and SR thing.

What I have in mind is starting a 500 or 600 DIY on Sunday 30 September 2018 and completing the ride the following day, Monday 1 October.

Subject to declaring it as my intention in advance, would I be allowed to have the ride and accompanying points attributed to the official 2018-2019 points table rather than the 2017-2018 table? Or is this flexibility limited to RRtY attribution only? (Or have I just dreamt up the whole thing.)

TIA
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Manotea on August 23, 2018, 01:50:05 pm
I think you'll find that awards are derived from the recorded brevet start date, so if you want brevets to be counted for the traiing month/year then you'd have to ask for the recorded start date to be amended. You can ask...

Not related to the question but one time I started a 200km RRTY brevet at 23:45 August 31. I'm a bad, bad man.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: citoyen on August 23, 2018, 01:53:45 pm
Stamps Direct.

https://www.stampsdirect.co.uk/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlaeihtP-3AIVDrHtCh1R1Qk-EAAYASAAEgJRrvD_BwE

Funny you should mention Stamps Direct - I've just this minuted placed an order with them...  :thumbsup:

...and they've already arrived, which is impressively quick service. And they're ace! I am inordinately pleased with them.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hellymedic on August 23, 2018, 01:58:02 pm
Stamps Direct.

https://www.stampsdirect.co.uk/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlaeihtP-3AIVDrHtCh1R1Qk-EAAYASAAEgJRrvD_BwE

Funny you should mention Stamps Direct - I've just this minuted placed an order with them...  :thumbsup:

...and they've already arrived, which is impressively quick service. And they're ace! I am inordinately pleased with them.

Good to see. Makes a change from other things!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: fuaran on August 23, 2018, 02:23:26 pm
I still have these stamps going spare, if anyone wants them for a few quid.
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=85981.msg1759064

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5601/15467933018_66521f75b5_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: citoyen on August 23, 2018, 02:29:25 pm
Good to see. Makes a change from other things!

Certainly does.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Whitedown Man on August 24, 2018, 07:39:25 am
(Have consulted all the various FAQ pages and the AUK Regs but can’t find an answer to this one)

I have a vague memory that if a multi-day ride crosses an official time boundary then there’s a degree of latitude allowed in terms of the date to which it gets officially allocated - but an equally vaguely memory suggests that this might just be an RRtY thing rather than a points table and SR thing.

What I have in mind is starting a 500 or 600 DIY on Sunday 30 September 2018 and completing the ride the following day, Monday 1 October.

Subject to declaring it as my intention in advance, would I be allowed to have the ride and accompanying points attributed to the official 2018-2019 points table rather than the 2017-2018 table? Or is this flexibility limited to RRtY attribution only? (Or have I just dreamt up the whole thing.)

TIA

Found the example I was looking for. From the official FAQs:

If I ride a long ride starting in one month and finishing in the next, in which month does it count?
By default, it counts as the month when the event started. However, if you can demonstrate that you rode at least 200km in the following month then it can be accepted as an RRTY counter for that month instead. Note that the one ride can only be counted for one month for RRtY purposes
!

So, does this flexibility only apply to RRtY, or does it apply to, say, R10000 too, thereby enabling a ride beginning 30 September and finishing 1 October (with 200 or more km on each day) to count in either year (but not both)?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on August 29, 2018, 11:07:32 am
Only RRtY.  The rest is in your hopeful imagination.

That said, some DIY organisers can be flexible, and it is ultimately the DIY org who enters your 'date ridden' into the system.  So I suggest you go down that route.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Whitedown Man on August 29, 2018, 06:21:19 pm
Thank you FF.

Difficult to see the logic of allowing discretion for RRtY but not other ‘awards’, but then logic rarely seems to be the driving force behind AUK’s rules. I have no interest in trying to bend the rules so my DIY org can rest easy knowing that I won’t be making a rule-bending request.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on August 30, 2018, 03:03:01 pm
RRtY is unique among the awards in that it is claimed over any rolling 12-month period.  It was also not an in-house AUK award until quite recently, and so its own rules evolved differently to those of AUK.  It is also (I think) one of the most difficult - I speak as a 14-years Super Randonneur but never once achieved RRtY.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: telstarbox on August 31, 2018, 04:37:52 pm
Is it still an Audax if you don't buy at least one thing from a Co-op?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: j_a_m_e_s_ on August 31, 2018, 08:09:54 pm
Is it still an Audax if you don't buy at least one thing from a Co-op?

For me, normally ibuprofen at about 150km, sooner if properly hilly.

In answer to your question, unequivically no.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: djrikki on September 06, 2018, 03:59:22 pm
I submitted an ECE request 3 days ago via the website, my random question is, how long does it usually take to get a response?
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: hellymedic on September 06, 2018, 04:04:58 pm
Don't know.

Suspect this random question would have a random answer!
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: grams on September 06, 2018, 04:21:02 pm
If you just submitted a normal entry I wouldn't expect a reply at all. If you're confident your route is valid just go out and ride it.

If you have a query you probably need to ask Martin directly.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Paul H on September 06, 2018, 06:41:48 pm
Did you get an instant automated response?  That's your Brevet card complete with event No, you're good to go.   If you haven't had it, check your spam folder, if you still haven't had it, I wouldn't assume it'd gone through.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: djrikki on September 07, 2018, 08:44:27 am
Yes, I got an automated response complete with entry reference number shown on the brevet card. I am fairly confident about the route, I quickly put something together in Strava builder, a direct route, without any meandering or scenic detours as per the guidelines.  I wasn't totally pedantic and look on Google maps and selecting Walking mode as suggested in the guidelines, so fairly confident yeah.  I've marked out my single control point which is between 50-80km.

However, I thought these had to be manually approved? I mean I have nothing to print off either, it says that the event organiser should Sign on my arrive at the start of the calendar event, but what should they sign exactly? I have selected a control point for the return journey as well (although I didn't mentioned it in "Other field"), but it too would be hard to avoid as its the other side of a bridge that spans a River; no alternative bridges for miles around - it's the direct route.

Probably worry about nothing, I will have an activity on Strava that I can easily export as a GPX file or directly from my Wahoo (somehow - still gotta figure that out) at the end of the ride, and will collect receipts at both control points (assuming its even required!?) which I can easily take a photo of on my phone again if necessary.

The automated email has a Tracklog uploader at the bottom of it - I think I will retain receipts until they are requested.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Somnolent on September 07, 2018, 12:41:40 pm
I mean I have nothing to print off either, it says that the event organiser should Sign on my arrive at the start of the calendar event, but what should they sign exactly?
That's a hangover from (now rather rare) printed cards for ECEs
The proof for the 'finish control' of the extension "to" which is the start of the calendar event - so the calendar event can sign it (if you are using paper).   Ditto for the extended leg "from", the calendar event organiser can sign as the "start control" for that bit.

I've not done that many ECEs but never had an ECE card, so never had anything to sign, and was always validated on the strength of a GPX track which covered my "to", the calendar event, and my "from", all in the one file.

The automated email has a Tracklog uploader at the bottom of it - I think I will retain receipts until they are requested.
Always a wise move in case of technical failure.  AFAIK you can use a photocopy or scan of the validated calendar event brevet card as part of your bundle of evidence if you don't get a receipt from the start/finish of the calendar event.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: djrikki on September 07, 2018, 01:19:30 pm
Thanks, that seems logical.

So when I collect the brevet card at the calendar event ask the organiser to sign and timestamp the first box as proof of arrival/start time and the same at the calendar event too end.

Ps. closing remark - I don't suppose it matters whether I record the ECE and the Calendar event as one individual activity (via gps) what matters it shows I have completed both events further backing up any proof-of-passage that I may collected.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: frankly frankie on September 08, 2018, 05:28:18 pm
What matters is that you can show you have completed your ECE.  Leave it to the event organiser to handle the event proofs.  Also if you submit a combined GPS file it may end up too big for the AUK uploader, you'll have to submit it to Martin separately (which I think is quite usual).

The proof for the 'finish control' of the extension "to" which is the start of the calendar event - so the calendar event can sign it (if you are using paper).   Ditto for the extended leg "from", the calendar event organiser can sign as the "start control" for that bit.

I'm no ECE expert (never ridden one) but it seems to me that these two proofs are automatic and don't require anyone to sign anything ECE-related.  An ECE is supposed to have zero impact on the people running the 'host' event.  Without any signatures the ECE can still be validated in the expectation that the proofs will turn up (the rider gets listed as having ridden and finished the event) and if for some reason they don't the ECE becomes worthless anyway. 
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: djrikki on September 18, 2018, 12:18:39 pm
My 100km ride has now been marked as Provisional on the website, hopefully the ECE will should follow shortly.
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on September 18, 2018, 08:48:07 pm
If we had a Random Audax Whinges thread:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: Greenbank on September 18, 2018, 11:03:08 pm
If we had a Random Audax Whinges thread:

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Random audax questions
Post by: mattc on September 18, 2018, 11:27:47 pm
I am not worthy!

muchos gracias

[but only 9.5/10, as you guessed the wrong event ;) ]