Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Freewheeling => Racing => Topic started by: Nuncio on July 04, 2011, 09:09:15 pm

Title: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Nuncio on July 04, 2011, 09:09:15 pm
After all that effort, Cav and Thor have been DQ'd from the intermediate sprint. It looks like an odd decision to me.

Quote
Mark Cavendish (HTC-Highroad) and Thor Hushovd (Garmin-Cervelo) have both been disqualified from the intermediate sprint on stage 3 of the Tour de France after making contact in the mid-race points classification battle.

Cavendish had crossed the line in sixth, leading the bunch over the line behind a break of five riders. However, the race commissars deemed both his and Hushovd’s actions inappropriate.

Cavendish, Hushovd Relegated In Tour De France Sprint | Cyclingnews.com (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cavendish-hushovd-relegated-in-tour-de-france-sprint)

After previous disqualifications (both for himself and Renshaw) you might forgive him for feeling picked on.  A couple of tweets (that's not referring to him and Thor):

Quote
Just discovered Thor & I have been disqualified from the intermediate sprint today. Seriously no idea why?!

Just heard that Thor's offered to take the punishment solely. What a true gentleman. I reckon it won't change fuck-all though. But thank you

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: bobb on July 04, 2011, 09:15:04 pm
The commissars were clearly feeling a bit bored and in need of attention again. Thor cuts in on Cav a little bit, so Cav leans on him a little bit. Just your usual rough and tumble sprint. Load of bollocks.

Oh! Did anything happen to the guy who nearly took Cav out on the final bend?! I only saw it briefly so would need another look to see who (if anyone) was at fault...
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Nuncio on July 04, 2011, 09:19:50 pm
According to the man himself:

"NOT HAPPY! We came up a bit short so I tried to let some riders in @ 2km. Last corner tangled with Rojas & Feillu. Lost 30m. Salvaged 5th."
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: kcass on July 04, 2011, 10:09:17 pm
If Cav hadn't tried to defend his position against (oh alright, headbutted) Hushovd you know the commisaires wouldn't have just relegated Hushovd on his own and he would've just been allowed to push Cavendish out of the line.

Probably only docked points off the Norwegian, knowing he's not going for the green jersey anyway,  to appease Cavendish.



Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Dinamo on July 04, 2011, 10:23:45 pm
Perhaps Feillu should have been docked his points.......
...........sorry I forgot he's FRENCH  :facepalm:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 05, 2011, 12:15:11 am
I filmed a stage of the Tour of Britain in 2007, because it passed the bottom of our road.
There was a sprint on a little hill that I rode up today, where Cavendish won, he was riding for T Mobile then. The finish was uphill in Kendal and Cavendish came second to a Russian rider called Serov, behind him was Feillu, who went on to win the points competition. Thomas was riding for Barloworld back then. So Cavendish has a history of at least four years with Feillu, who's a good rider himself. Cavendish is fairly poor on an uphill finish.
Tour of Britain 2007 Stage 5. Liverpool to Kendal. on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/1344961)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 05, 2011, 07:18:17 am
Perhaps Feillu should have been docked his points.......
...........sorry I forgot he's FRENCH  :facepalm:

+1^

The lady that was with Cav at the end when he was giving his interview to those many microphones - was she a HTC media person?  Is his 'image' being more managed nowadays to stop the outbursts of previous years?  He was quite restrained about Feillu but his voice cracked and you could tell he was getting emotional.

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 05, 2011, 09:45:52 am
Bored, Clueless Commisars.

More dangerous to Cav as a sprinter than Feillu will ever be.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: David Martin on July 05, 2011, 09:52:32 am
That was hardly an infraction at all.. if anything it was Hushovds fault. Pathetic nannying by the commissaires.

..d
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: bobb on July 05, 2011, 10:09:05 am
When the commie was interviewed, he implied they would have dq'd Thor only if Cav hadn't reacted. But seeing as he did, they decided to dq him too.

He could have been talking out of his arse though...
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Mr Larrington on July 05, 2011, 10:25:20 am
Utter bollocks decision.  Thor shrugged it off when interviewed and Cav didn't even mention it.  If either of them had thought there was anything dodgy about it they'd have gone all mardy.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 05, 2011, 10:50:45 am
When the commie was interviewed, he implied they would have dq'd Thor only if Cav hadn't reacted. But seeing as he did, they decided to dq him too.

He could have been talking out of his arse though...

So Cav's screwed either way then, because if he doesn't defend his position when another rider impedes him, he potentially loses a bucketful of points, and if he defends his position, he's guaranteed to lose a bucketful of points via the race commissars.  :-\
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: PeteB99 on July 05, 2011, 11:02:26 am
Obviously a transgression I missed - why has Amador of the moviestar team got -5 points in the classification?

What did he do and why did they fine him green jersey points and not give him a time penalty?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 05, 2011, 11:36:11 am
He got a five point deduction and a 10 second time penalty for drafting the team car. Seems a bit harsh. He crashed twice on the stage and was injured badly enough that he had to go to hospital for X-rays later. Apparently, he could barely walk the next morning but still turned up to ride because he didn't think it would be the done thing to quit after just one stage.

Chapeau to him, I say.

Barredo got a 20 second penalty for the same offence but wasn't docked any points.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 05, 2011, 11:37:58 am
Perhaps Feillu should have been docked his points.......
...........sorry I forgot he's FRENCH  :facepalm:

I find it amusing that David Harmon's pronunciation of Feillu is closer to "Failure" than anything else.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: PeteB99 on July 05, 2011, 11:40:49 am
Ta for that Citoyen.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 05, 2011, 11:45:35 am
I had to look up Amador yesterday after seeing his quote about riding despite not being able to walk on the official tdf site. Quite an unlucky chap, by all accounts. He's only just come back from a collarbone break that ruled him out of the Giro, and apparently he was beaten unconscious by local thugs while on a training ride at home in Costa Rica late last year.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Nuncio on July 05, 2011, 12:41:53 pm
Armador is still 15 minutes up on the lanterne rouge.  After a fall on the opening stage, Vincent Jerome came last in Stages 1 and 3 (strange, can't find the individual results from the TTT) and is now over 19 minutes down.  For some, Paris must seem a lot further away than for others.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: kcass on July 05, 2011, 01:38:44 pm
Thor apparently asked for Cavendish not to be punished which is nice.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 05, 2011, 01:39:53 pm
Just seen this tweet from Cav:

Just heard that Thor's offered to take the punishment solely. What a true gentleman. I reckon it won't change fuck-all though. But thank you

Nice one Thor !

edit: cross posted with kcass.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 05, 2011, 01:44:39 pm
Nice one Thor !

Especially after some of the spats that he and Cav have had in the past.  Chapeau !
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 05, 2011, 01:48:58 pm
Lovely comment from Harmon just now:
"They're not the quickest calculators, the Schlecks."

 ;D

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 05, 2011, 02:05:29 pm
The TDF web site is rubbish. No race analysis or news of the penalties or why they were given at all.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 05, 2011, 02:21:58 pm
The TDF web site is rubbish. No race analysis or news of the penalties or why they were given at all.

+1

Not a user friendly site at all.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 05, 2011, 02:22:33 pm
I found the Amador info on Velonews.com - they do a nice daily report on each stage, with details of who crashed and any jury decisions.

Tour de France - Le Tour de France news, photos and race results
 - VeloNews (http://velonews.competitor.com/category/tour-de-france)

Edit: Andrew Hood's Tour Notebook is the bit you need:

2011 Tour de France, stage 1: Andrew Hood’s Tour Notebook (http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/07/news/2011-tour-de-france-stage-1-andrew-hoods-tour-notebook_181284)
Tour de France Notebook, stage 3: Van Garderen learning ropes; 4th of July first; RadioShack sitting pretty (http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/07/news/tour-de-france-notebook-stage-3-van-garderen-learning-ropes-4th-of-july-first-radioshack-sitting-pretty_181714)

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 05, 2011, 05:23:30 pm
Well, that was a properly exciting finish to the stage today. A few people laying a few cards on the table, and a thoroughly deserving winner. I think I've just about caught my breath now.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Pip on July 05, 2011, 07:52:50 pm
Thor Hushovd!

An absolutely sensational ride.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: andygates on July 05, 2011, 07:57:52 pm
Thor Hushovd!

An absolutely sensational ride.

Hell yes. 

Mustn't underestimate Evans's work with mechanicals and having to gnaw up the peloton, nor the delightful sight of Contador in pain (not as a gloat: as a sign that he's not full of horse testicles).

More from the hot Thor/Cav bromance tomorrow...
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 05, 2011, 08:06:05 pm
But where was Andy Schleck?????
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 05, 2011, 08:20:27 pm
Fuck.  Just about to go and watch it on the record list and BBC News 24 just blurted it out. 
I've avoided everything else.  Fuck.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Tewdric on July 05, 2011, 08:20:40 pm
Thor Hushovd!

An absolutely sensational ride.

Absolutely.  I really enjoyed that finish today.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 05, 2011, 08:52:39 pm
What a nasty uphill drag at the end. Christian Prudhomme must have been killing himself laughing when he came up with that one. An inspired choice of finish.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 05, 2011, 09:39:01 pm
What a nasty uphill drag at the end. Christian Prudhomme must have been killing himself laughing when he came up with that one. An inspired choice of finish.

There's a story behind that.

The finish of stage 4 is the Mur de Bretagne, which is a lot steeper than most roads in France for the reasons outlined by Graham Robb in his excellent book 'The Discovery of France'.



Quote
"The chief engineer in the Limousin, Pierre Tresaguet, had insisted that a limit should be placed on [road] gradients. ... The old road east of Morlaix still includes a needless climb of 15 per cent (1 in 7) because the blundering military Governor of Brittany, the Duc d'Aiguillon, preferred straight lines to the more accommodating curve of the older road that runs alongside. Thanks in part to Tresaguet, it is unusual now to find a climb in excess of 8 per cent (1 in 12). This was thought to be the steepest gradient that a fully laden mule could manage. British mountain roads seem to rise in fits and starts like step pyramids. French mountain roads go much higher, but more steadily, and can comfortably be climbed for hours by a fully laden cyclist."

"To judge by the army handbook of 1884, it is fortunate that most road building was left to civil engineers:
Gradient on which troops can still march in good order: 25 per cent;
Gradient manageable by mounted horses and light carriages: 33 per cent;
Gradient manageable by mules: 50 per cent;
Escarpment that an infantryman can still cross by using his hands: 100 per cent (completely vertical)"



Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: kcass on July 05, 2011, 10:52:24 pm
Lovely comment from Harmon just now:
"They're not the quickest calculators, the Schlecks."

 ;D

d.


That was really funny.  Harmon and Kelly having quite a chuckle about it.

But where was Andy Schleck?????

I know. He was bad in the Tour of California, then the Tour de Suisse and now this. It's either one of the longest bluffs in sporting history or he really hasn't got it this year.

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 05, 2011, 11:18:50 pm
"To judge by the army handbook of 1884, it is fortunate that most road building was left to civil engineers:
Gradient on which troops can still march in good order: 25 per cent;
Gradient manageable by mounted horses and light carriages: 33 per cent;
Gradient manageable by mules: 50 per cent;
Escarpment that an infantryman can still cross by using his hands: 100 per cent (completely vertical)"
Quote

Just like every Military Handbook ever published- written by someone who wasn't the Infantryman who had to march the graident in good order ::-)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: mattc on July 06, 2011, 09:01:42 am
Was it wrong to enjoy Contador's air punch as he crossed the line?

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 06, 2011, 09:10:54 am
Was it wrong to enjoy Contador's air punch as he crossed the line?



No. Especially after seeing the phot finish;D
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: bobb on July 06, 2011, 09:22:15 am
I actually felt a bit sorry for him. First all the booing, then losing all that time and now being pipped on the line by a paedophile. He's not having much luck. All he did was eat a dodgy burger  :P
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 06, 2011, 10:17:50 am
Was it wrong to enjoy Contador's air punch as he crossed the line?

No. Especially after seeing the phot finish;D

I thought it looked like Cadel had edged it, but then Contador celebrated and he didn't, so I assumed they both knew that Contador had won and I was a bit disappointed. But then they showed the photo...

I believe the word is "schadenfreude".  ;D

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Mr Larrington on July 06, 2011, 10:42:18 am
I trust Roman Feillul's blantant drafting of his team car has been properly punished by les comissaires.

Oh, hang one, he's French, isn't he...
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 06, 2011, 10:50:37 am
I'm just surprised Cav wasn't docked points for not de-materialising to let Fellul through in the sprint at the end of day 3.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 06, 2011, 10:52:27 am
Quote
Jury decisions
* Vacansoleil sport director Hilaire Vander Schueren, fined 200CHF for an infraction “concerning the circulation of the vehicle”
* John Gadret (Ag2r), fined 100CHF for “peeing in public”
* Cofidis sport director Didier Rous fined 200CHF for “comportement incorrect” from the team car
* Matteo Tosatto (Saxo Bank-Sungard), Insausti Izagirre (Euskaltel-Euskadi), José Gutierrez (Movistar), John Gadret (Ag2r) – all fined 30CHF each for “bidden collé” – sticky water bottles – for taking pulls from team cars
* Sport directors Brad McGee (Saxo Bank-Sungard), Gorka Gerrikagoitita (Euskaltel), Yvon Ledanois (Movistar) and Vincent Lavenu (Ag2r) – all fined 50CHF each for above infraction

Tour de France Notebook, stage 4: Farrar’s breakthrough, Van Garderen close to white (http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/07/news/tour-de-france-notebook-stage-4-farrars-breakthrough-van-garderen-close-to-white_181961)

Obviously a glitch in the system there - how did the Frenchman Gadret manage to get a fine?

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Nuncio on July 06, 2011, 11:30:27 am
Two fines for Gadret, including
Quote
* John Gadret (Ag2r), fined 100CHF for “peeing in public”
which would seem a little unfair.  Presumably it was blatant.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 06, 2011, 11:44:17 am
I've done it loads of times on audaxes, but never been fined.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 06, 2011, 12:23:00 pm
I've done it loads of times on audaxes, but never been fined.

Yebbut, there wasn't a crowd of spectators across the road at the time, was there?  ;)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: bloomers100 on July 06, 2011, 12:59:10 pm
I recorded the ITV4HD version last night to find that they no longer transmit in HD suddenly and all I got was a screen telling me so. Be careful if you use a generic satellite recording device. The first few days were okay obviously been an issue over licensing perhaps.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: LEE on July 06, 2011, 03:02:18 pm
Thor Hushovd!

An absolutely sensational ride.

Hell yes. 

Mustn't underestimate Evans's work with mechanicals and having to gnaw up the peloton, nor the delightful sight of Contador in pain (not as a gloat: as a sign that he's not full of horse testicles).

More from the hot Thor/Cav bromance tomorrow...

It was quite unusual to see Contador in so much pain, unable to drop a heavy-weight sprinter,  wasn't it?

It doesn't look like he had much in the tank and I'm wondering if Wiggins is holding back in order to test his new skinny physique on big climbs. 
To think Wiggins has dropped almost 2 stone in weight since last year (incredible really) but not lost power must result in an improvement on the mountains (and he wasn't that bad to begin with).
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Nuncio on July 06, 2011, 04:00:04 pm
Contador still came a gnat's whisker from winning the stage.  He just went a little too early, I think.  No-one was going to look serene on that finish.  There were comments during the Giro that he looked as if he was struggling, and he won that comfortably enough.  I still can't see anyone (apart from CAS) taking the win from him.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Nuncio on July 06, 2011, 04:13:30 pm
Follow selected riders live

SRMLive (http://data.srmlive.de/TDF/)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 06, 2011, 04:36:27 pm
Did you watch Jeremy Roy's stats when he broke away with Voeckler near the end? Frightening!

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 06, 2011, 04:56:50 pm
Shout of joy from me at the stage end today! Am I the only one who particularly enjoys the post race interviews with the Brits? It always seems to be more informative than interviews in just about any other sport!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 06, 2011, 04:58:42 pm
Yep, that was a great interview by Cav after today's stage. Intelligent, funny, informative. Great to see him looking so happy.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: hatler on July 06, 2011, 05:45:41 pm
Three Brit riders in the top ten, and this after five stages. Amazing.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 06, 2011, 06:02:10 pm
Geraint Thomas has been a revelation so far. Really impressive. So has EBH, for that matter. Sky are looking very strong. All good news for Wiggo.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: mattc on July 06, 2011, 06:13:41 pm
Yep, that was a great interview by Cav after today's stage. Intelligent, funny, informative. Great to see him looking so happy.

d.

Yup. He's always good value.

And he couldn't help having a go at the organisers again, could he? ;D

[I missed the intermediate sprint aggro, so have no idea who was in the wrong. wodevva ... !]
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: onb on July 06, 2011, 06:35:02 pm
Yep, that was a great interview by Cav after today's stage. Intelligent, funny, informative. Great to see him looking so happy.

d.



    YouTube
        - ‪Tour de France 2011 Stage 5‬‏
   (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05mT0rvZbuQ)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Nuncio on July 06, 2011, 08:13:58 pm
Rojas has had his intermediate points deducted, so Gilbert is back in green.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 06, 2011, 08:20:24 pm
Got to love Cav "it was proper 'ard that was" :)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 07, 2011, 06:32:11 am
It certainly makes for exciting television, especially when his train disconnects and he is not on it but then still manages to come through for the win.  Absolutely amazing.  I also loved Gilbert's anguished look and head drop when he came second.  Shows how much they really want this.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: TheLurker on July 07, 2011, 07:58:03 am
Got to love Cav "it was proper 'ard that was" :)
That's the first post stage interview that I can remember where he looked dead eyed and washed out.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 07, 2011, 08:06:33 am
Did you see him right after he crossed the line? They had to lift him off his bike à la Chris Boardman's annoying bike ad.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 07, 2011, 11:09:53 am
Got to love Cav "it was proper 'ard that was" :)
That's the first post stage interview that I can remember where he looked dead eyed and washed out.

I thought that.  A little tearful too  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: jogler on July 07, 2011, 03:08:15 pm
Cadel Evans has borrowed my shirt today ;D
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Karla on July 07, 2011, 04:12:09 pm
Well done to EBH!  What a star.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 07, 2011, 04:17:09 pm
Geraint is becoming quite the cyclist too! I wonder if we'll see him as a full on contender in the spring classics in a few years?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 07, 2011, 08:13:54 pm
Geraint gave a very professional interview afterwards today I thought.
Nice to see Dave B smiling.
Brilliant to see how happy Edwald's parents were.
Great for him too.  I expect that will give him the necessary confidence now.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: RichForrest on July 08, 2011, 04:18:25 pm
Wiggins is out!!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Gus on July 08, 2011, 04:19:46 pm
Looks like broken collarbone, seems like Horner + one or two more riders  too.  :(

So bad for the TDF

Update, Horner are hanging on the medics car and getting treatment.
But Wiggo is officially out now.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rhys W on July 08, 2011, 04:20:05 pm
What a shame.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: matthew on July 08, 2011, 04:24:33 pm
and sky had three riders waiting to pace brad back to the group including EBH, hope that doesn't blow their tour. Does mean that EBH and GT should have a good team to help them to attempt to win the white jersey.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 08, 2011, 04:47:57 pm
Looked like more than three Sky riders waited. Eurosport commentators are saying they think G wasn't one of them, though they haven't confirmed a sighting in the main bunch.

Edit: G sighted in chasing group. Looks like he might lose some time today.  :(

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 08, 2011, 04:52:33 pm
Velonews reports that G was one of the riders. Surely it can't be that tricky to pick the white jersey out?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Greenbank on July 08, 2011, 04:55:28 pm
10km to go and they're 1'40" behind, they should easily catch up with the peloton.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: LEE on July 08, 2011, 04:55:41 pm
Wiggins is out!!

Bloody typical isn't it?

I seriously think he was in with a shout this year.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 08, 2011, 04:59:15 pm
10km to go and they're 1'40" behind, they should easily catch up with the peloton.

Fwiw, Sean Kelly disagrees with you.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Greenbank on July 08, 2011, 05:04:08 pm
10km to go and they're 1'40" behind, they should easily catch up with the peloton.

Fwiw, Sean Kelly disagrees with you.

Indeed, my mental arithmetic was bollocks.

If the peloton averages 50kph for the final 10km that's 12 minutes.

To catch up 100 seconds the chasing pack would need to do the 10km in 8m20 which is 72kph average.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Tim on July 08, 2011, 05:12:57 pm
Never stood a chance of catching up the HTC lead-out train. It was just about limiting losses. Shame G found himself on the wrong side.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: jogler on July 08, 2011, 05:28:17 pm
I see that Woolly is still in Yellow ;D
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Tewdric on July 08, 2011, 07:51:23 pm
Wiggins is out!!

Just read this.  Oh bugger.  I think he was in with a real chance given Clentador's apparent poor form.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Tim on July 08, 2011, 08:00:59 pm
Just seen the ITV4 interview with Wiggins (end of the highlight program). It would appear the drugs do work.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: fin on July 08, 2011, 08:22:49 pm
Listening to GT's & EBH's interviews, it seemed they were both in front of the crash.  Is it natural reaction to wait and see who is down and possibly hurt, or was there a team instruction to wait?  If the latter and considering the time both riders lost on GC, particularly the white jersey, was it a poor tactical decision for both these riders to wait?

Cav seemed genuinely 'gutted' when he heard about Wiggins' accident and retiral.  Chapeau Cav.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: JT on July 08, 2011, 08:26:49 pm
Listening to GT's & EBH's interviews, it seemed they were both in front of the crash.  Is it natural reaction to wait and see who is down and possibly hurt, or was there a team instruction to wait?  If the latter and considering the time both riders lost on GC, particularly the white jersey, was it a poor tactical decision for both these riders to wait.

I was thinking that too. You don't need a whole team to pace someone back to the bunch.

Then again, neither EBH or GT would trouble the GC come the high mountains so maybe now they've lost some time they'll be allowed up the road on a break?

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: fin on July 08, 2011, 09:07:21 pm
I hope SKY don't go to pieces now.  I presume there is a 'Plan B' and the team will regroup and still ride as a cohesive unit.  GT as new team leader?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: perpetual dan on July 08, 2011, 10:02:04 pm
Indeed, my mental arithmetic was bollocks.

That's not something I read very often!

Poor Bradley. That last interview was good value though.
Quite a display by HTC too.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 08, 2011, 10:06:09 pm
Listening to GT's & EBH's interviews, it seemed they were both in front of the crash.  Is it natural reaction to wait and see who is down and possibly hurt, or was there a team instruction to wait?  If the latter and considering the time both riders lost on GC, particularly the white jersey, was it a poor tactical decision for both these riders to wait.

I was thinking that too. You don't need a whole team to pace someone back to the bunch.

Then again, neither EBH or GT would trouble the GC come the high mountains so maybe now they've lost some time they'll be allowed up the road on a break?



GTs job is to ride near Wiggins and pace him. He mentioned this on his blog the other day. So if Wiggins disappears GT is going to wait.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: eck on July 08, 2011, 10:09:13 pm
Cav seemed genuinely 'gutted' when he heard about Wiggins' accident and retiral.  Chapeau Cav.
+1 to that.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 08, 2011, 10:14:56 pm
He seems to really rate Brad. Twitter from Cav tonight:

Really hope @bradwiggins is ok. Devastated for him. I guarantee he would've silenced some people this year. Top bloke.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 08, 2011, 11:03:45 pm
Anyone seen an explanation of what actually happened ? It looked like it was on a straight bit of dry road. Why the huge pile up ?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 08, 2011, 11:14:50 pm
Anyone seen an explanation of what actually happened ? It looked like it was on a straight bit of dry road. Why the huge pile up ?

Probably similar to a lot of the crashes on straight roads yesterday, someone touches wheels or clips a handlebar.

From what I recall of the live coverage after todays mass chute, the wind direction had changed to tail/crosswind, and the pace was being ramped up, so cue general desperation to get as far up the peloton as possible.

HTC were definitely on the ball today, having the full squad available in what was left of the peloton for a perfect run into town and lead-out.

Edit: The joys of live transmission, no time to bleep out Cav's succinct initial response to the news about Wiggo, which was duly expurgated in the highlights.  ;D
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 09, 2011, 07:37:35 am
"Poor old Bradley" is what BBC news this morning are saying about his collar bone.

I watched the ITV highlights last night and when it was shown even Mrs G said 'Oh no' - that nearly surprised me as much as seeing him retire  ;D  Such a shame as this year he seemed to be a different person and was holding it all together well.  His inner chimp was well in control.

I was surprised to see the whole team waiting but that just confirms how much Sky have done to create 'the team' ethos.  Hopefully now they can regroup behind G and give it a go.  Maybe EBH or Simon Gerrans can also get some support for a stage win or two?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 09, 2011, 09:13:30 am
This article seems to raise a relevant point.  Apparently Horner finished yesterday so concussed that he didn't have any recollection of his crash or why he was behind the peloton.  And Boonen had been continuing, under the encouragement of his DS, despite suffering from headaches and vomiting for 2 days since his crash, and even after other riders have complained that he was proving a danger to those around him.   How come the Tour doctor hasn't stepped in ?
Pro Cycling Plagued By Head Injuries | Cyclingnews.com (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pro-cycling-plagued-by-head-injuries)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rhys W on July 09, 2011, 09:28:17 am
I saw a clip of Chris Horner crossing the line to be greeted by his soigneur. Truly frightening!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Thing2 on July 09, 2011, 09:51:02 am
This article seems to raise a relevant point.  Apparently Horner finished yesterday so concussed that he didn't have any recollection of his crash or why he was behind the peloton.  And Boonen had been continuing, under the encouragement of his DS, despite suffering from headaches and vomiting for 2 days since his crash, and even after other riders have complained that he was proving a danger to those around him.   How come the Tour doctor hasn't stepped in ?
Pro Cycling Plagued By Head Injuries | Cyclingnews.com (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pro-cycling-plagued-by-head-injuries)

I read this article this morning. Very interesting, and quite frightening. The decision to keep riding with a head injury really shouldn't be left to the one suffering that injury. Riders are never going to want to abandon, and if they can climb on their bikes they will. I was amazed Chris Horner was allowed to continue riding after the crash yesterday.

Emma
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Gus on July 09, 2011, 10:24:11 am

Chris Horner is out too.
A quote from Radioshack :
"Horner only remembers riding the Tour's team time trial and as no recollection of the crash, he added.
The American also broke his nose and sustained a calf injury in the crash."


 :-X :-X

How on earth did he finish yesterday  ???
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 09, 2011, 11:08:16 am
Anybody else notice that David Millar is almost invisible despite being very high up in the GC all week? 
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 09, 2011, 11:10:20 am
To cheer some of you up, here's the awesome skoda ad:

    YouTube
        - ‪SKODA and Tour de France - A strong partnership for great victories‬‏
   (http://youtu.be/cNunotJ14o8)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Gus on July 09, 2011, 11:26:33 am
I saw a clip of Chris Horner crossing the line to be greeted by his soigneur. Truly frightening!

This one  ??? http://bicycling.com/blogs/thisjustin/2011/07/08/video-horner-crashes-hard-in-tour-de-france-stage/ (http://bicycling.com/blogs/thisjustin/2011/07/08/video-horner-crashes-hard-in-tour-de-france-stage/)
He doesn't know where he is and what he has been doing and just keep asking.  :-[ :-X
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 09, 2011, 11:50:34 am
Standard concussion symptom. Gets very boring for anyone around the victim as they keep asking the same couple of questions over and over again.

Got it very mildly last year (helmet cracked in process as per design) and was totally unaware that I was repeating myself.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 09, 2011, 11:55:49 am
Sounds like dealing with drunk people.  Keep repeating the same crap.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 09, 2011, 12:49:53 pm
Helmets aren't designed to crack (that doesn't absorb much energy). The design behaviour is to plastically compress.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 09, 2011, 01:18:05 pm
Anybody else notice that David Millar is almost invisible despite being very high up in the GC all week?  

Consequence of riding to keep Thor in yellow, innit? Good to see. Imagine he might gain one or two more places today - will probably overtake Thor, I expect.

I'm anticipating Cadel being in yellow tonight though.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 09, 2011, 04:24:54 pm
Oooo, It looked like G made it into the lead group for the finish while Gresink dropped back. That boy might just come good in a big way yet. I'll bet he's more than 4 points in the fantasy TdF next year though!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: onb on July 09, 2011, 05:36:39 pm
The thing I keep thinking is Contador playing mind games or is he just not as "beefed " upthis year in case he gets tested for bovril contamination .As an aside I do like the Movistar jersey and have had to use a lot of willpower when hovering over the buy it button. ::-)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: clifftaylor on July 09, 2011, 05:56:23 pm
It's a three week race - Contador won't be interested in yellow yet, just not losing time against <whoever>, and not crashing out.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 09, 2011, 08:23:46 pm
Oh, he was interested today all right. He's definitely not as turbocharged on the climbs as in previous years...

I'm reserving judgment until after stage 12 to Luz-Ardiden, but Cadel definitely looks like the favourite now.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: fungus on July 09, 2011, 08:57:42 pm
He's definitely lacking a bit of his usual firepower, Shleck cruised up to him very easily at the end of todays stage.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: andygates on July 09, 2011, 09:12:05 pm
Contador's definitely not got the gumption, though he's talking a good game.  The long climbs might see it come back, but I'm not betting on it.

Meanwhile, big up the big Viking.  Holding onto the lead bunch was a great job of work on his part.

(http://picpaste.com/pics/super_thor-nxxDOPnX.1310242124.jpg)

And yay for the plucky hero break all the way!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: teethgrinder on July 09, 2011, 10:22:12 pm
It's a very big shame that Wiggins is out. I was really looking forwards to watching how he went in the mountains. I reckon he had a good chance of getting on the podium. On the other hand, I'd like to see how Geriant Thomas gets on. I guess that Team Sky will try and get him the white jersey back and see how far they can get him up the GC, which might make him a stronger team mate for Wiggins next year.

Not sure about Contador yet. I agree that he doesn't look too good at the momoent, but wonder if the last few stages were better for the more powerfull classic riders rather than good climbers. He seems to have had a bit of bad luck too. Maybe this is Schleck's year? I won't write off Contador until I've seen him in the big mountains going head to head with Schleck.

Good to see a good side to Cavendish too. He's not really a bad guy, just a bad loser, which I guess is what makes him such a good winner. I hope he gets more stage wins and a green jersey in Paris.

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 09, 2011, 10:36:19 pm
What struck me most today was the terrible riding style of Cyril Gautier (Fra) Team Europcar.  He was throwing his bike all over the road and he was only riding in a straight line !!  Compared to everyone else he was a mess.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 09, 2011, 11:15:04 pm
Not sure about Contador yet. I agree that he doesn't look too good at the momoent, but wonder if the last few stages were better for the more powerfull classic riders rather than good climbers.

I'm sure there's an element of that. He needs a long, steady climb to do the damage to his rivals, and we've only had short, steep hills so far. And of course he showed great form in the Giro. But I do wonder if the Giro has sapped his strength a bit. I also wonder if the numerous falls he's had so far have left him a bit tender. He looked very heavy-legged today.

Cadel appears to be on top form - he only attacked at the finish today in a bid to get the couple of seconds he needed for yellow, rather than to distance himself from Contador et al, but he's looked very comfortable on the hills we've seen so far.

Still, you're right - it would be insane to write Contador off until we've seen how he performs in the proper hills.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 09, 2011, 11:16:15 pm
My first chance to post since yesterday afternoon.

Gutted for Bradley- he was looking very strong this year and a podium spot was well on the cards.

I think the UCI should insist all riders get morphine or whatever it was that Braders was on before they are allowed to give an interview ;D

Great result for Cav.

Shocking video of Horner :o All the danger signs there. He was in the sort of condition where I would have dragged a fight victim to hospital.

As for today. Thor Hushovd is turning in some awesome performances to stay in yellow. His training regime has obviously changed and it shows.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 10, 2011, 12:42:13 pm
Wiggins last couple of tweets

"Being operated on Monday morning to put plate in. My 2 dogs are also having there balls chopped off Wednesday morning"


and later

"Hoping my drugs don't confuse me and end up at the wrong appointment"

 ;D
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Jules on July 10, 2011, 02:08:56 pm


I think the UCI should insist all riders get morphine or whatever it was that Braders was on before they are allowed to give an interview ;D



Wasn't it a gem - It's only a bike race"
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Gus on July 10, 2011, 02:18:08 pm

Big crash again :Vino ended in the woods and is out, so is Van Den Broeck.  :(

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 10, 2011, 02:20:40 pm
Are there any contenders other than the schlecks and Evans that haven't been involved in any of the crashes?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rhys W on July 10, 2011, 02:26:48 pm

Big crash again :Vino ended in the woods and is out, so is Van Den Broeck.  :(



Why do these things always happen in the ad break?

Vino looked like he'd wrapped himself round the tree, I wouldn't be surprised if he's broken his leg.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 10, 2011, 02:37:33 pm
Zabriskie's out as well.

Think you're right, Rhys - seemed to be Vino's leg that was bothering him.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Thing2 on July 10, 2011, 02:45:04 pm
Garmin are not having a good day - In addition to Zabriskie, Millar was involved (but is back on his bike) and Vande Velde may have abandoned..

From here (http://live.cyclingnews.com/)

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rhys W on July 10, 2011, 03:11:31 pm
I am a doctor, but not a medical one - Vino's just been confirmed as broken his femur.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 10, 2011, 03:43:19 pm
Femur and pelvis. Ouch ouch ouch!!!

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 10, 2011, 03:47:12 pm
Did he fall or was ge pushed?


    YouTube
        - ‪IMG_0067.MOV‬&rlm;
   (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwviTmZZSlk)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 10, 2011, 03:55:18 pm
Femur and pelvis. Ouch ouch ouch!!!

d.

That'll be his last pro ride
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rhys W on July 10, 2011, 03:59:04 pm
Flecha has been run over by a TV car, sending Hoogerland flying over a fence. Flecha is back on the bike though, bloodied and torn.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Deano on July 10, 2011, 03:59:57 pm
 :o

The French TV car just took out the lead riders in the breakaway. Clumsy sod. Looked pretty bad for the two who were taken out.

Edit: Rhys beat me to it.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Aidan on July 10, 2011, 04:00:47 pm
Flecha has been run over by a TV car, sending Hoogerland flying over a fence. Flecha is back on the bike though, bloodied and torn.

That was absolutely outrageous!!!!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Martin109 on July 10, 2011, 04:01:15 pm
They both fell very hard, particularly Hoogerland.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Martin109 on July 10, 2011, 04:02:26 pm
Both now back up and riding! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 10, 2011, 04:11:42 pm
Holy fuck! Did you see that! FFS!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 10, 2011, 04:13:50 pm
Hoogerland on his bike but suffering, and bleeding heavily. Would be surprised if he finishes the stage. :(

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on July 10, 2011, 04:16:47 pm
They both fell very hard, particularly Hoogerland.

That was unbelievable. The car was avoiding a tree, apparently, although I couldn't see any reason for such an abrupt change of course. Didn't stop either.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rhys W on July 10, 2011, 04:39:05 pm
Yeah, those trees that sprout up unexpectedly in the middle of the road are a real hazard.  ::-) That's the end of the Tour for that driver.

Both Hoogerland and Flecha have dropped off the peloton, but according to Harmon there's an autobus behind them anyway. Even if they missed the cut-off time by half an hour, there's no way they'd be eliminated after that.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 10, 2011, 05:18:16 pm
Flecha and Hoogerland finished over 16mins behind the stage winner (still well ahead of the bus) and have been jointly awarded the combativity prize.  :thumbsup:

And Hoogerland is KoM - hope he gets the chance to wear it on the road.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 10, 2011, 05:21:23 pm
I note that Flecha ride hard to the intermediate sprint point then slowed significantly. As Sky haven't got any riders in for green, I wonder if they weren't doing it for future team mate Cav?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Martin109 on July 10, 2011, 05:23:54 pm
Hoogerland tearful and dejected on the podium in KoM jersey.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on July 10, 2011, 06:26:18 pm
:o

The French TV car just took out the lead riders in the breakaway.


Looking at it again I can see that he had no option but to hit the tree or move over and hit the riders - it was just stupid piece of driving that left him with nowhere to go.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: andygates on July 10, 2011, 06:34:01 pm
Apart from the option of braking (which would have put the following motorcycles in the ditch but so what). 

I still think that tree wasn't anything like as in the way as it looked.  I think he got spooked by its shadow.

Either way: bloody asshat. :demon:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Martin109 on July 10, 2011, 06:40:01 pm
How long before it's on YouTube?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 10, 2011, 06:43:29 pm

    YouTube
        - ‪Tour de France 2011 Johnny Hoogerland car accident‬&rlm;
   (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3nj3Om59nU)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rhys W on July 10, 2011, 07:58:25 pm
Looking back at it now on ITV4, Voeckler was damn lucky not to be taken out as well.

Unbelievably dignified and forgiving (brief) interview by Johnny Hoogerland as well. Respect to that man.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 10, 2011, 08:11:58 pm
Christian Prudomme looked very angry in an interview at the finish. He said two crashed caused by the media was completely unacceptable. They are looking into it and I expect there will be some kind of announcement tomorrow, Maybe it's time to ban the media cars. The motorbikes are fine for TV coverage and much less likely to get in the way.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: alexb on July 10, 2011, 08:17:28 pm
I'm astonished that Vino wasn't brought up out of the trees on a back board. They had no idea what he'd done at the time and it amazes me that riders are just picked up and carried up out of crashes that could have resulted in severe injuries!

Re: the Contador "incident", it looks so much like a push (from Gusev according to the You Tube comments) from one of the Radio Shack riders.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rhys W on July 10, 2011, 08:37:41 pm
According to Riis, Bertie's handlebars got caught in Karpetts' saddle somehow.

If it was the other way round, you could have said "it's curtains for Karpetts".  :D
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: arvid on July 10, 2011, 08:44:37 pm
Hoogerland has 33 stitches, 11 in his buttocks, 11 near his knee, and 11 in his calf.
The stitches in his knee are very close to a tendon. He hopes these stitches will not cause him to DNS in the next stage.
His pants were completely ripped off. Maybe that's the reason there was no TV coverage of him getting out of the barbed wire.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Aidan on July 10, 2011, 08:54:10 pm
Hoogerland has 33 stitches, 11 in his buttocks, 11 near his knee, and 11 in his calf.
The stitches in his knee are very close to a tendon. He hopes these stitches will not cause him to DNS in the next stage.
His pants were completely ripped off. Maybe that's the reason there was no TV coverage of him getting out of the barbed wire.


A not very nice picture, but shows his injuries. Ouch

Tour De France 2011: Johnny Hoogerland (Vacansoleil-DCM) Extracts Himself From..., Photos | Cyclingnews.com (http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour-de-france/stage-9/photos/181772)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 10, 2011, 08:59:39 pm
Omfg poor bastard  :o
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rhys W on July 10, 2011, 09:03:56 pm
His pants were completely ripped off. Maybe that's the reason there was no TV coverage of him getting out of the barbed wire.

I've had a low-level paranoid fear of this for a while... touch a wheel on a clubrun, hit the tarmac and have to ride 25 miles home with no shorts.  :-[
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: arvid on July 10, 2011, 09:19:36 pm
His pants were completely ripped off. Maybe that's the reason there was no TV coverage of him getting out of the barbed wire.

A not very nice picture, but shows his injuries. Ouch

Tour De France 2011: Johnny Hoogerland (Vacansoleil-DCM) Extracts Himself From..., Photos | Cyclingnews.com (http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour-de-france/stage-9/photos/181772)

This is a scary one too  Awful photograph of Johnny Hoogerland in the fence.  They hav... on Twitpic  (http://twitpic.com/5o5ztj) (nfsw-ish)
Nicely put his front wheel around the pole of the fence. Don't try this at home!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: onb on July 10, 2011, 09:25:38 pm
Why arnt they talking about prosecuting the driver ,never mind sending him home??
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: domesticated ape on July 10, 2011, 09:35:04 pm
OMG! The ITV4 commentator said he was lucky to have landed on the wire not a fencepost, but when they showed the replay it was obvious that he took a post down with him! And to add insult to serious injury, there are now photos of his pasty white arse all over the internet :o
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: jogler on July 10, 2011, 10:09:43 pm
He looks like a torture victim :o
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on July 10, 2011, 10:15:20 pm
I'm astonished that Vino wasn't brought up out of the trees on a back board.

Likewise, crazy really. That, leaving decisions as to whether they are well enough to ride to injured riders, and two crashes caused by Tour personnel - all a bit shambolic.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: arvid on July 10, 2011, 10:43:34 pm
Why arnt they talking about prosecuting the driver ,never mind sending him home??

The Vacansoleil team director is considering this. They will investigate their options tomorrow.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 10, 2011, 10:45:53 pm
There are always interactions between Tour vehicles and riders, usually not on camera though. It is, sadly, a fairly usual happening for a spectator to get injured or killed as well.

More serious crashes than usual, though, but then the Giro was similar.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on July 10, 2011, 10:49:17 pm
David Millar's interview was interesting - he was saying that, in effect, "better equipment" and a more uniform fitness level was making the Tour faster; this and the higher stakes was making racing riskier.

How much faster are they going, compared to say 30 years ago?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: border-rider on July 10, 2011, 10:52:01 pm
They seem to be piling along pretty minor roads at times too.  I know that's often so in the mountains, but the early stages - I thought - the roads usually are a bit more open
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 10, 2011, 10:54:30 pm


How much faster are they going, compared to say 30 years ago?

About 3-6k faster overall average
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rhys W on July 10, 2011, 10:56:03 pm
Why arnt they talking about prosecuting the driver ,never mind sending him home??

The Vacansoleil team director is considering this. They will investigate their options tomorrow.

Dave Brailsford seemed to hint that this was being considered as well.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: arvid on July 10, 2011, 10:58:26 pm
The Dutch commenters are blaming the material, although they are unclear about the reason why. I think it has more to do with the stakes tbh.
They might have a point though. I know from motorbikes that good old steel frames give way earlier feedback than more modern stiff racing frames. I reckon the same will apply to bicycle frames. Maybe the carbon frames don't give any feedback until they're actually losing the bike already? I wonder if titanium bikes would fix this.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 10, 2011, 11:00:15 pm
Feedback is irrelevant when you are either hit by a car, or overbook a bend and go off the edge
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: andygates on July 10, 2011, 11:25:08 pm
As Millar said of his first crash of the day (!), there was no time to do anything, bam, he was down; and Brad said of his crash, people went down ahead and it was a tight bit of road and bam, they were all down.

The riders crashing is one thing.  The riders being taken out by doltish driving is a whole other.  Media cars need to keep their damn distance while the roads are narrow.  If they carry on like this, the riders will have a bolshy strike stage -- they've protested over less before.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: David Martin on July 11, 2011, 07:20:47 am
I don't see why media cars are in the race convoy next to the riders at all. Cameramen/photographers on motorbikes, yes, but media?

Maybe they will insist that all drivers are qualified race officials, irrespective of whom they are driving for.

There is a difference between riders in the convoy off the back of the bunch being hit/colliding with cars and having some numpty enter the sterile zone and knock off the riders through stupid driving.

..d
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: CyclistsAnonymous on July 11, 2011, 07:25:01 am
I've only just seen the clips on Sky News this morning. Looks like a very dangerous situation. Great clip to promote safe driving when near cyclists though ;D
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: TheLurker on July 11, 2011, 07:39:20 am
To lighten the mood a little...

It would seem that Sergei the Meerkat is a member of the Lampre Tifosi.  If you can bear to watch the advert look at his tie...
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: David Martin on July 11, 2011, 07:45:23 am
To lighten the mood a little...

It would seem that Sergei the Meerkat is a member of the Lampre Tifosi.  If you can bear to watch the advert look at his tie...


Really? I had him down as a Katusha man meerkat
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Nuncio on July 11, 2011, 08:46:34 am
Anyone else notice the near thing in the final couple of kms, with a spectator hanging over the boards, camera to eye, almost taking out an HTC (I think) rider.  There was contact and the rider made a quick adjustment in towards the pack, but without coming off or taking anyone else out.  The spectater was spun round backwards away from the hoarding.  I hope his camera was broken.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: matthew on July 11, 2011, 08:48:42 am
When overtaking a cyclist goes wrong, choosing between the tree and the cyclists, should be a no brainer for the driver, tree every time. Particularly when filming a cycle race. However it never seems to happen that way.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: LEE on July 11, 2011, 09:22:44 am
When overtaking a cyclist goes wrong, choosing between the tree and the cyclists, should be a no brainer for the driver, tree every time. Particularly when filming a cycle race. However it never seems to happen that way.

It was incompetent driving but, if he'd chosen the tree, I would have expected more injuries as the car spun into the road causing everyone behind to choose quickly between stationary car, trees & cyclists.

Just numpty driving, looking sideways at cyclists rather than ahead I bet.

The riders got lucky and the driver got lucky this time, it could have been a lot more serious.

More idiots are yet to come.  Those wankers, supposedly cycling fans, running alongside the top climbers on the big climbs, waving flags in their faces and bouncing off other specators as they run, barely missing the cyclists as they do so.

I'm amazed at how many "cycling fans" show almost no consideration for the pros.

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: border-rider on July 11, 2011, 09:31:24 am

It was incompetent driving but, if he'd chosen the tree, I would have expected more injuries as the car spun into the road causing everyone behind to choose quickly between stationary car, trees & cyclists.

I think he'd have had a couple of motorbikes and some cyclists pile into the back of the car if he'd either hit the tree or braked hard also.

Quote
The riders got lucky and the driver got lucky this time, it could have been a lot more serious.

+1

Very balanced reactions from the riders involved I thought. Shocked but happy still to be alive and accepting that it wasn't deliberate.

I did wonder what that car was doing, though. Why did it need even to be mixed up in the riders ?

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 11, 2011, 09:34:00 am
Isn't a media car the TdFs equivalent of a box at Man United. You can put your friends / business clients in it as a treat.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: David Martin on July 11, 2011, 09:35:55 am

I did wonder what that car was doing, though. Why did it need even to be mixed up in the riders ?


Non-team cars had been told to move to the side and let the Europcar team car through to Voeckler. They were told to not attempt to pass the riders. Instead of obeying race radio the driver deliberately tried to pass the riders on a narrow road. (Having driven comissaires before I can attest to how difficult this is on a wide road let alone a narrow one.)

Quite rightly thrown off the tour. Driver and vehicle. I can easily see drivers in future needing some proper accreditation and proof of race convoy experience before being allowed to drive in the convoy.

..d
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: David Martin on July 11, 2011, 09:36:34 am
Isn't a media care the TdFs equivalent of a box at Man United. You can put your friends / business clients in it as a treat.

Yes, to a great extent. It shouldn't have been anywhere near the riders.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: andygates on July 11, 2011, 10:03:40 am
Any word on how vino is doing?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: perpetual dan on July 11, 2011, 02:07:06 pm
Apparently surgery on "head of the right femoral" went well. Astana's home page has him giving a thumbs up.

I really wish I hadn't clicked on accident pictures during lunch. From the youtube the car doesn't look to be in danger of even clipping a wing mirror on the tree and misses the bank quite easily.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: jogler on July 11, 2011, 02:10:41 pm
From the youtube the car doesn't look to be in danger of even clipping a wing mirror on the tree and misses the bank quite easily.


I too had the same opinion
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Nuncio on July 11, 2011, 02:42:36 pm
From Van Den Broeck To Stay In Intensive Care, Vino Operated On Overnight  | Cyclingnews.com (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/van-den-broeck-to-stay-in-intensive-care-vino-operated-on-overnight)

Quote
Jurgen Van Den Broeck will stay in intensive care for two or three days as he recovers from his injuries after crashing out on a descent during Sunday’s ninth stage to Saint Flour.

The Omega Pharma-Lotto team leader fractured three ribs, his shoulder blade and also suffered from a collapsed lung. He initially tried to continue in the race...

!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Nuncio on July 11, 2011, 07:11:24 pm
With all the drama of the crashes I'd forgotten about the possibility of one of these:

Kolobnev Tour De France's First Doping Case | Cyclingnews.com (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kolobnev-tour-de-frances-first-doping-case)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on July 11, 2011, 09:17:39 pm
Isn't a media car the TdFs equivalent of a box at Man United. You can put your friends / business clients in it as a treat.

The road.cc article mentions a rumour that the car contained VIPs hoping to get closer to the action.

http://road.cc/content/news/38784-tour-car-crash-sky-consider-all-their-options-french-police-investigate (http://road.cc/content/news/38784-tour-car-crash-sky-consider-all-their-options-french-police-investigate)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: jogler on July 11, 2011, 09:21:46 pm





The road.cc article mentions a rumour that the car contained VIPs hoping to get closer to the action.


I hope they considered that they were close enough >:(

The VIP's were the blokes getting battered by a bloody car >:(  >:(
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 11, 2011, 09:40:54 pm
According to Carlton Kirby's tweets earlier today French TV didn't even show the incident on their highlights programme last night.   Perhaps they were hoping that the audience wouldn't notice the break suddenly diminishing from 5 to 3.  Incroyable.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 12, 2011, 01:56:16 pm
With all the drama of the crashes I'd forgotten about the possibility of one of these:

Kolobnev Tour De France's First Doping Case | Cyclingnews.com (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kolobnev-tour-de-frances-first-doping-case)

Apropos of nothing in particular, Kolobnev happens to be an anagram of "vole knob".  ;D
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 12, 2011, 02:01:35 pm
According to Carlton Kirby's tweets earlier today French TV didn't even show the incident on their highlights programme last night.   Perhaps they were hoping that the audience wouldn't notice the break suddenly diminishing from 5 to 3.  Incroyable.

Quelle surprise.

Mind you, Voeckler was lucky to avoid being hit himself... imagine the uproar if he or Sandy Casar had hit the deck.  :demon: ;) :demon:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: bobb on July 12, 2011, 02:14:12 pm
Contains Hoogerarse:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 12, 2011, 02:15:23 pm
Just listening to Carlton Kirby's description of Vinokourov's injuries...

 :o  :sick:

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: LEE on July 12, 2011, 02:21:11 pm
Contains Hoogerarse:

(click to show/hide)

I'd be visiting the car driver and discussing my injuries with the aid of a Baseball Bat
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Mr Larrington on July 12, 2011, 03:53:44 pm
I'd get the rest of the team to hold him down while doing so, too.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 12, 2011, 04:28:33 pm
Top quality bike racing today.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 12, 2011, 06:00:06 pm
Cav will have to eat shit pie after his comments last year
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Nuncio on July 12, 2011, 08:03:31 pm
Not just last year.  From Twitter:
Quote
Stupid comment of the year goes to Andre Greipel. To me: "why the fuck you drop the wheel in front on the climb?" #nowweknowwhostartstheshit 18 June 2011

He sounded quite gracious when interviewed, but I only heard it so couldn't see if the teeth were gritted.

Cracking stage today, I thought.  Well done to Lotto for livening it up, and Gilbert for hanging in after such an effort.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Domestique on July 12, 2011, 08:55:52 pm
Interesting on eurosport today they mentioned that there may well be police involvment against the driver of the car.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 12, 2011, 09:23:33 pm
Exciting finish today.  Omega's tactics worked well for the stage win but was it at the expense of green in Paris ?  And where was Farrar ?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rhys W on July 12, 2011, 09:34:30 pm
He was seen at the arriere du course as it got lumpy. Still, Cav, made it up there, so it was more than the usual sprinter's autobus.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 13, 2011, 06:38:10 am
Two options.  Mr Wiggins is either still doped to the eyeballs and is therefore being very 'nice' with his Twittering OR Cav is preparing to move to Sky and Brad knows it.  Last night some of Brad's tweets were complimentary towards Cav.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 13, 2011, 06:52:46 am
And meanwhile Cav's tweets are making nice noises about the Europcar kit ;)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 13, 2011, 06:56:31 am
Well he is right it's a nice jersey.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Tewdric on July 13, 2011, 06:58:44 am
Two options.  Mr Wiggins is either still doped to the eyeballs and is therefore being very 'nice' with his Twittering OR Cav is preparing to move to Sky and Brad knows it.  Last night some of Brad's tweets were complimentary towards Cav.

Word is that Cav will ride for Sky next year.  We face the tantalising prospect of both yellow and green jerseys being won by Uk riders...
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 13, 2011, 07:06:25 am
Two options.  Mr Wiggins is either still doped to the eyeballs and is therefore being very 'nice' with his Twittering OR Cav is preparing to move to Sky and Brad knows it.  Last night some of Brad's tweets were complimentary towards Cav.

Word is that Cav will ride for Sky next year.  We face the tantalising prospect of both yellow and green jerseys both being won by Uk riders...

To say nothing of a well rehearsed quartet of Wiggins/Swift/Thomas leading out Cav for Olympic Gold  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 13, 2011, 07:13:39 am
I thought Millar's move yesterday was intriguing as well.  Another apparent lead out?  I don't think he was hoping for the win and he didn't seem to have anyone other than Cav that would benefit.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 13, 2011, 09:49:43 am
I thought Millar's move yesterday was intriguing as well.  Another apparent lead out?  I don't think he was hoping for the win and he didn't seem to have anyone other than Cav that would benefit.

I thought it was just opportunism. Hushovd isn't competing the sprints and Farrar was off the back of the peloton (edit: as was Julian Dean), so why not have a go? On another day, he might have got away with it, but with Tony Martin driving the peloton at full pelt, it was always going to be a long shot.

Really enjoyed yesterday's stage. Proper bike racing. Fantastic to see the Yellow Jersey riding so aggressively too.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 13, 2011, 10:06:26 am
My take on it too. Millar is in good form this year. He isn't aiming to win the tour, his sprinters were a busted flush yesterday. nothing to loose so why not have a go.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Nuncio on July 13, 2011, 11:04:01 am
He tried it a couple of times on the Vuelta too, I think.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 13, 2011, 11:31:52 am
If it had worked it takes a few points of Cav and the other sprinters so good for Thor. If it doesn't it might also make the other sprinters a bit more tired the next day as they have to reel him in. Win win.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 13, 2011, 11:55:43 am
So, chances of Cav in green tonight? Can't see Cav getting it wrong two days running, so I'm putting my mortgage on the stage win for him. Whether he gets enough points to overtake Gilbert largely depends on how Gilbert places, I guess.

Paris could yet end up being decisive... ooh!

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Clare on July 13, 2011, 12:35:00 pm
Not sure what's going on but according to Eurosport NL Malta are 3-1 up against Thailand which is an odd score for TdF  ???

Oooh, it's all gone very quiet, we'll channel our inner Liggett.

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 13, 2011, 01:42:44 pm
Is it just me or is this the most exciting tour in recent memory? I don't think anyone would like to put serious money on a winner of any of the 4 jersey competitions!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 13, 2011, 02:04:31 pm
Yes it is, for a number of reasons. The lack of a prologue means no early selection. Contador looks less strong than in previous years, but also seems isolated and unsupported. Added to which his early time loss means everyone is sensing blood. Cadel is fierce. Schleck is keeping his powder dry, and HTC and Cav have to get things perfect if they want a win. It is interesting to note Cav's sprinting grimace shows signs of greater exertion than before.

Best of all, since the race is in the mountains until the penultimate day, it could be a fight all the way.

I think it shows just how good Armstrong was at stage races.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 13, 2011, 02:09:47 pm
How much of the ingredients to an exciting race are also the things causing high rates of crashes this year then do you think?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 13, 2011, 02:19:00 pm
Millar, I think, was saying that everybody wants to be at the front this year, which is why there have been so many crashes. Perhaps that is a result of the race being open.

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 13, 2011, 02:22:22 pm
It is interesting to note Cav's sprinting grimace shows signs of greater exertion than before.

Course design. Lots of uphill finishes or flattish finishes after a quite hilly day. He talked about this in an interview. He thinks maybe this years course was designed to stop HTC dominating the sprints so much. He wasn't biging himself up particularly more implying that the HTC leadout train was now so slick the TdF organisers were deliberately trying to derail it a bit.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 13, 2011, 02:37:59 pm
Millar, I think, was saying that everybody wants to be at the front this year, which is why there have been so many crashes. Perhaps that is a result of the race being open.



Yesterday:
Quote from: David Millar on Twitter
About 10km into race we had first big crash. Big wide straight road, smooth surface, DRY, and UPHILL. Still we crash. Embarassing now.

Throw in poor peloton etiquette (half-wheeling and hitting the brakes are a big no-no, ne c'est pas?) or a lack of proper bike handling madskilz, then.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 13, 2011, 04:15:10 pm
Cav wins, now in green with a 20pt margin over Gilbert. I reckon he's a shoo-in for two more wins - stage 15 and Paris - so that ought to mean the green jersey's in the bag.

Gilbert looks to me like he's fading.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 13, 2011, 04:19:24 pm
So, chances of Cav in green tonight? Can't see Cav getting it wrong two days running, so I'm putting my mortgage on the stage win for him. Whether he gets enough points to overtake Gilbert largely depends on how Gilbert places, I guess.

Paris could yet end up being decisive... ooh!

d.


So your mortgage is paid off then?  ;D
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 13, 2011, 04:22:56 pm
If only I'd meant it literally... <sigh>  :facepalm:

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 13, 2011, 07:56:46 pm
I enjoyed tonight's update.  Cav was positively beaming.  Well done to him.
Millar went off - again.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Aidan on July 13, 2011, 08:42:13 pm
Renshaw did a cracking job of getting Cav through the last couple of Km too.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: geraldc on July 13, 2011, 09:06:39 pm
Cav getting his face wiped as if he was a child before the interview was hilarious
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: perpetual dan on July 13, 2011, 09:11:42 pm
Millar's closing comments, and look, about looking forward to seeing tomorrow on the highlights made me smile.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 13, 2011, 09:12:44 pm
Another brilliant ride from HTC and Cav  :thumbsup:

Nice story about the kids from Ramsay Grammar School, they got their own tweet from Cav.

Forgot to acknowledge Sean Yates' epic 8 hours on the rest day.  On the Eurosport commentary he was saying he's in training for the 12 hour championship.  (I think he was being serious).  What an intriguing prospect  :)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Nuncio on July 13, 2011, 10:54:21 pm
Gilbert looks to me like he's fading.

d.
I don't think he's fading - yet - he's just not really an all-out sprinter.  And it doesn't help when Greipel takes some of his intermediate sprint points from him.

Reasons why I think the tour has been more exciting this year, so far:

Rather than the 6 or 7 'real', predicatable, sprint stages we would normally have had, there have been 2 or 3.  The others have been like classics races with punchy hills at or near the end.  That gave hopes of stage wins for the classics-type riders like Gilbert, Hushovd, Cancellara, EBH, Goss and Cunego, as well as the real sprinters, and the tougher GC men like Evans and Contador, who were also hoping to get a few seconds gaps for the GC and to make a point.   That's an awful lot of riders with hopes of a win/jersey, and an awful lot more trying to get them to the front and keep them there.  The roads just weren't big enough.

The change to the intermediate sprints has been good.  Previously they have had little bearing on the points competition, with the breakaway riders, with no interest in them, mopping them up.  This year, with points still up for grabs by the time the peloton gets there, there's been something to race for.  Before the ride it wasn't clear if it was going to be worth the effort.

I'm looking forward to the mountains tomorrow, and to Chasing Legends on ITV4.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 13, 2011, 11:17:36 pm
A cracking stage today and Jens Voigt being interviewed fro ITV4- result :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Simonb on July 13, 2011, 11:26:38 pm

I don't think he's fading - yet - he's just not really an all-out sprinter.  And it doesn't help when Greipel takes some of his intermediate sprint points from him.

Perhaps Gilbert didn't feel up to it today; so Greipel was sent up to deny Cav the points (obv. he can beat Cav).
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: teethgrinder on July 14, 2011, 12:17:13 am
I don't think anyone would like to put serious money on a winner of any of the 4 jersey competitions!
Andy Schleck is in a very strong position. He's never been seen in the thick of the action, but to be <2mins down on the yellow jersey, he's kept well up the field, out of trouble and presumably biding his time for an attack in the really tough mountain stages. Contador seems tired. Had a few crashes, maybe because of tiredness, or is he just really unlucky?
I think that Shleck was Contador's biggest challenger and as Contador seems out of it, I think this will be Schleck's year.
Then again, what do I know? ;D

Cavendish for Green. The bloke who beat him looks like he'll struggle to carry his big muscles over the mounains hanging onto the autobus.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Peter on July 14, 2011, 12:27:42 am
I don't think I'd rule Contador out just yet.....
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 14, 2011, 12:37:31 am
The speculation ends on Thursday...

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 14, 2011, 06:32:59 am
The number of GC riders that are continually on the front and marking moves and even going themselves - Cadel and Alberto - has made it the most exciting race for the first week - that I can remember.  The coverage this year has been very enjoyable.  I enjoy it when they do the interviews with the English riders and legends like Voigt as well.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 14, 2011, 08:05:41 am
Jens was ace. "Who are you most impressed with this year ?" "Me - 40 and till being picked to ride" classic Jens.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: clarion on July 14, 2011, 09:45:37 am
Schleck's riding a good tour.  He's not put himself up to be attacked, yet he's still within reach.  He still needs to time it carefully...
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 14, 2011, 10:22:00 am
Schleck's riding a good tour.  He's not put himself up to be attacked, yet he's still within reach.  He still needs to time it carefully...

I presume you mean Andy, rather than Frank, who shouldn't be counted out in his own right.

To be honest, Andy Schleck was perhaps a little too cute in his tactics last year, merely following Contador's wheel most of the time, and the one time he did try to attack, we had the dropped chain episode.

This year, with Frank still in the race, there is an opportunity to use tag team tactics and work Contador over, and given that Contador is carrying a knee injury and looked laboured on the Mur-de-Bretagne, the other GC contenders may feel inspired to be more aggressive as well.

In return, Contador needs to go on the attack early, in order to recover the deficit accrued in the first week, or to get a better idea of whether it's not his year in the TdF this year, and save himself for la Vuelta.

The other variable is Evans - he's been looking in good shape so far, but has he been able to improve his climbing to be better able to respond to the explosive attacks of the pure climbers?

The only thing that is certain is that the men will be sorted from the mountain goats today.

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Tim on July 14, 2011, 10:36:57 am
Given that Andy is seen as the stronger contender than his brother I wonder whether it will actually be a move of Frank's that ends up inadequately marked and gains a small margin (seems more likely than a move of Andy's goes unmarked). Now under that scenario would Andy be willing to get his brother to the top of the podium in Paris?

I wonder whether there is actually a greater chance of Frank winning this thing (as a dark horse due to his brother) than many of the team leaders who are still in with a shout.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: clarion on July 14, 2011, 10:39:55 am
Interesting idea.  I guess that the leading contenders are watching each other like hawks.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 14, 2011, 10:41:43 am
I don't think he's fading - yet - he's just not really an all-out sprinter.  And it doesn't help when Greipel takes some of his intermediate sprint points from him.

I thought Greipel was trying to lead him out rather than take the points off him. Sure, Gilbert's not a sprinter so he's never going to compete with Cav on those terms, but where was he at the end of the stage? Didn't even finish inside the top 20. Not even close. That's why I think he might be fading.

Maybe Sunday's stage will be a good one for him - one cat 2 climb to take the sprinters out of the race, then downhill to the finish.

Are there points for the individual time trial? If so, he could pick up a few there, I guess.

But is he a strong enough climber that he'll pick up points on the mountain stages? I can't see it myself. I'm backing Cav to take two more stage wins, and I reckon that will be enough to secure the green jersey.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 14, 2011, 10:46:51 am
I wonder whether there is actually a greater chance of Frank winning this thing (as a dark horse due to his brother) than many of the team leaders who are still in with a shout.

Based on form so far this season, you'd have to say Frank looks the better bet. Andy's looking strong but he has no attacking instinct and I reckon that'll ultimately be his undoing. Again.

For my money, it's Cadel's to lose. But then it wouldn't be the first time he's thrown away a race from a strong position...

I guess we'll find out today whether or not Contador's sandbagging. Millar seems to think he is.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Mr Larrington on July 14, 2011, 10:54:04 am
I've also been wondering about Frank Schleck.  Schleck Bros. have major fall-out allowing Cuddles in to win the whole thing?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Nuncio on July 14, 2011, 11:38:50 am
I don't think he's fading - yet - he's just not really an all-out sprinter.  And it doesn't help when Greipel takes some of his intermediate sprint points from him.

I thought Greipel was trying to lead him out rather than take the points off him.

I'm sure he was.  It just didn't work out too well.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 14, 2011, 12:01:13 pm
It just didn't work out too well.

That's an understatement!  ;D

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Tim on July 14, 2011, 01:38:12 pm
Geraint Thomas in virtual yellow. That'll probably be as close as he gets this year. Though he's had a good tour, and had he not waited for Bradley there would be a whole set of ifs and buts with answers.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: JohnP on July 14, 2011, 02:10:43 pm
Geraint Thomas crossed the summit and then outbraked himself, left the road and almost took a flyer down the hill.  Got back on and did it again within a miniute.  Best advised to get a bit of heat in his carbon rims before it's too late.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 14, 2011, 02:12:35 pm
Commentators reckon the first skid was because he was distracted by a Welsh flag, the wally.

Don't know what was his excuse for the second - nerves after the first one, perhaps.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: JohnP on July 14, 2011, 02:12:42 pm
In his defence another 5 bikes in the peloton have now fallen on same corner.  Looks like there may be something on the road at the bend - possibly oil with sand.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: JohnP on July 14, 2011, 02:14:18 pm
Road surface looks like the old photos from 1920's & 1930's.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: JohnP on July 14, 2011, 02:23:11 pm
Maybe it was Mousse du Vache ?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Nuncio on July 14, 2011, 02:58:46 pm
Any sightings of Rigoberto Uran?  With no Wiggins to look after, and Geraint up front to help him later, there's a good chance for him to show us what he's made of.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: JohnP on July 14, 2011, 03:05:15 pm
Went for  a pee and returned to find Thomas leading the climb at La Mongie .

Kelly says Thomas has a lead of 'torty' seconds over 'a number of riders'.  Not sure if I prefer Kelly or Sherwin but Eurosport ads are less obstructive than ITV4.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Riggers on July 14, 2011, 03:10:29 pm
Has to be Sherwin over Kelly:


"Well… well… welll… I t'ink, t'ink, t'ink, that, well, you know, he's, he's …"


Argh! Get on with it!!!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: RichForrest on July 14, 2011, 03:11:23 pm
If people can't get eurosport or ITV4 you can view ITV4 via TVCatchup - Never Miss A Show Again (http://www.tvcatchup.com) also available on mobile phones via wifi on TVCatchup Mobile (http://www.m.tvcatchup.com)  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rhys W on July 14, 2011, 03:19:09 pm
You can watch ITV4 on their own website, and there's an ITV player iPhone app just released I believe.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 14, 2011, 03:39:21 pm
OK, so I was wrong about Gilbert...

[edit: but he still finished outside the top 20, as predicted, so didn't make up any ground on Cav]

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Pip on July 14, 2011, 07:05:14 pm
Perhaps the day's biggest hero was Pierre Rolland, who shepherded Tommy to the summit at Luz-Ardiden. The spotlight is obviously on the GC contenders, but the work done by riders like Rolland, the imperious Jens Voigt, Sylvester Szmyd and  a host of other domestiques is immeasurable.

Oh, and of course, Geraint is fantastic. On the cobbles last year, leading out the sprint a couple of days ago, and now smashing the field to pieces on the Tourmalet. The boy has it all, big chapeau to him.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 14, 2011, 07:25:54 pm
Perhaps the day's biggest hero was Pierre Rolland, who shepherded Tommy to the summit at Luz-Ardiden. The spotlight is obviously on the GC contenders, but the work done by riders like Rolland, the imperious Jens Voigt, Sylvester Szmyd and  a host of other domestiques is immeasurable.

Rolland was very impressive. You could see how much his effort meant to Tommy V as they crossed the line. Szmyd did great too.

As for Jens... it sickens me that he's older than me and still riding like that.  ;D

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 14, 2011, 07:40:34 pm
As for Jens... it sickens me that he's older than me and still riding like that.  ;D

The shop team I used to ride with had a Grand Veteran (age 50+) category cross-country national champion on the roster, and he was as fast as the riders young enough to be his children!  8)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 14, 2011, 08:28:30 pm
One of my club mates is a many time vet world champion. He's over 65 and can kick my arse any time there's a sprint!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: clarion on July 14, 2011, 10:46:43 pm
Malcolm Elliott, Beryl Burton, Jeannie Longo.

Some people never know when to let the young 'uns take over ;)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 15, 2011, 07:14:27 am
I think we saw yesterday how much the HTC guys had killed themselves for Cav over the preceding few days.  Vellits and Martin must be wondering if they did the right thing.  And it once more begs the question, is a move to a team with even bigger GC ambitions such as Sky really such a good idea for Cav ?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Giropaul on July 15, 2011, 08:26:26 am
I think we saw yesterday how much the HTC guys had killed themselves for Cav over the preceding few days.  Vellits and Martin must be wondering if they did the right thing.  And it once more begs the question, is a move to a team with even bigger GC ambitions such as Sky really such a good idea for Cav ?

But perhaps Sky may have different ambitions for next year?

Might a Sky team (Murdoch permitting!) built around Cav with a mainly UK train (Stannard, Thomas, etc) be the plan for the Olympics - remember Sky is owned by British Cycling.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Simonb on July 15, 2011, 08:28:03 am
Is a move to a team with even bigger GC ambitions such as Sky really such a good idea for Cav ?

Well, he'll certainly be better paid.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: jogler on July 15, 2011, 09:01:55 am
- remember Sky is owned by British Cycling.

I didn't know that
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Gus on July 15, 2011, 01:21:26 pm

Klöden abandoned too suffering after he crashed yesterday, are the any Radioshack riders left  ???

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 15, 2011, 01:38:00 pm
But perhaps Sky may have different ambitions for next year?

Wiggo has said the Tour is his priority next year, but Brailsford has said the Olympics are the priority... Could be some interesting discussions between those two over the winter.

Either way, it looks quite likely that Geraint Thomas will be withdrawn from the Tour early next year, which would seriously hamper any chances Wiggo might have of winning it.

However, Brailsford has also said that for a rider like Cav, the Tour would be ideal preparation, so he won't be withdrawn early, whether or not he's with Sky.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: mattc on July 15, 2011, 01:51:37 pm
- remember Sky is owned by British Cycling.

I didn't know that

Does this mean we don't have to boycott them?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Karla on July 15, 2011, 02:17:06 pm
With Wiggo out, Sky's tactics seem to involve a rider in each day's break.  Yesterday was G, today we have EBH up front.  Bon Courage to that man!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: jogler on July 15, 2011, 04:30:06 pm
Woolly won today :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Gus on July 15, 2011, 04:33:04 pm
Woolly won today :thumbsup:

 ;D ;D He really deserves that jersey  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: woollypigs on July 15, 2011, 04:52:56 pm
Woolly won today :thumbsup:
I'm Danish not a mountain monkey !
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Gus on July 15, 2011, 05:04:23 pm
Woolly won today :thumbsup:
I'm Danish not a mountain monkey !

I'm sure Woolly in fact is Thor in disguise and use all the touring for TdF training.  ;)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b231/gus69/160x180.jpg) Vs (http://www.woollypigs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/woolly-danish-icecream-225x300.jpg)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Martin109 on July 15, 2011, 05:08:46 pm
The ice-cream was always just a frozen protein drink made to look like an ice-cream.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: jogler on July 15, 2011, 05:28:11 pm
Woolly won today :thumbsup:
I'm Danish not a mountain monkey !

I'm not au fait with the nationalistic pride of Viking land.The fact is that he reminds me of you each time i see him.You could be related ;D
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Giropaul on July 15, 2011, 05:28:28 pm
- remember Sky is owned by British Cycling.

I didn't know that

OK, to be more precise, the team that race as Sky are owned by a company which is an offshoot of British Cycling, and shares directors (Brailsford, Cookson et al).

Like all teams, the ownership is with the company, the naming is down to sponsorship. E.g. for the later years the "ANC Halfords and "Lycra Halfords" (and Interent) consisted of riders who were contracted to Action Sports, a company registered in the Isle of Man.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: woollypigs on July 15, 2011, 05:37:38 pm
Woolly won today :thumbsup:
I'm Danish not a mountain monkey !

I'm not au fait with the nationalistic pride of Viking land.The fact is that he reminds me of you each time i see him.You could be related ;D
Well Norway was under Danish rule for many years and the first king of a fully independent Norway in 586 years when they got independence from Sweden in 1905 was a Danish Prince. So yes we are not much far from each others us Scandinavians :)

Anywhoo back to le tour, it was a pretty darn good ride for a sprinter. And jolly good show from the Frenchie who got third too.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: LEE on July 15, 2011, 05:38:49 pm
Woolly won today :thumbsup:

 ;D ;D He really deserves that jersey  :thumbsup:

That's what World Champs are made of...epic to see such a big guy haul himself over those climbs and finally grab the lead with 2km to go.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: jogler on July 15, 2011, 05:48:33 pm
As you say,he's not at all too shabby on climbs considering his relatively larger build.A World Champion's demonstration of what a Champion can do 8)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: peliroja on July 15, 2011, 06:20:29 pm
I thought he reminded me of someone.  :P Agreed, a very impressive performance today by the Norwegian. I've done the Aubisque from the Eaux-Bonnes side just once, and it is a killer. I was cycling so slowly near the top that I kept being bitten by the same horsefly...  :-[
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: jogler on July 15, 2011, 06:24:42 pm
When I am reincarnated I wanna be a horsefly :demon: ;)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 15, 2011, 09:52:41 pm
A great result today from one of my all time favourite riders.  And in the rainbow jersey too.  I've enjoyed reading some of the tweets from the rest of the peloton congratulating him, clearly a popular win.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: mattc on July 15, 2011, 10:55:10 pm
What a fucking cool stage. I really love these 'transition' stages, you never know what's going to happen. A great advert for Pro-Cycling; so what if Shreks/Evans/Cont were watching each-other, there was racing down the road :) And climbs, sprints, foggy descents ...



Thor has always been a little cooler than Cav, so I'm glad they're not in direct competition now - I can root for both!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 16, 2011, 07:51:43 am
A shame that one of the best knit, and most successful, teams in the peloton looks as if it may disappear.  Team HTC's owner faces sponsorship search deadline | Latest News | Cycling Weekly (http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/529402/team-htc-s-owner-faces-sponsorship-search-deadline.html)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Auntie Helen on July 16, 2011, 11:01:27 am
James was lookng at a site listing fines to riders in the TDF and one was 30CHF for 'sticky water bottle'. What the heck is that?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 16, 2011, 11:03:28 am
It's when the team car hands out a bottle but doesn't let go, thus giving the cyclist a free ride
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 16, 2011, 04:55:59 pm
Another classic stage from Jens today. Two crashes and still he finishes.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 16, 2011, 06:24:06 pm
It's when the team car hands out a bottle but doesn't let go, thus giving the cyclist a free ride

And see also 'magic spanner'  :)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 16, 2011, 06:47:17 pm
Main thought on the stage today. Andy Schleck was on incredible form but didn't want to drop his brother. Frank was having an off day I reckon. If Andy doesn't win, I'll eat my hat. I reckon that we'll see two Schlecks on the podium in Paris with Evans in 2nd. (Unless Contador 'magically' re-gains form)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 16, 2011, 07:04:46 pm
I'm starting to wonder about Thomas Voeckler. Very in form.  If everyone else keeps cancelling each other out he stands a chance. He didn't look to be in any trouble today. The time trial might be his undoing though.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 16, 2011, 07:30:18 pm
I'm starting to wonder about Thomas Voeckler. Very in form.  If everyone else keeps cancelling each other out he stands a chance. He didn't look to be in any trouble today. The time trial might be his undoing though.

I'm inclined to agree, though it now looks like the GC contenders are waiting for the Thursday and Friday's stages to go for the sort-out. Nothing will happen tomorrow apart from some maillot vert action; the stages to Gap and Pinerolo are downhill finishes so they are more likely to be breakaway days. Mind you, the final climbs on those stages do offer an attacking opportunity to a GC rider with sufficient descending madskilz to maintain any gap gained down to the finish.

Having said all that, they could be daft enough to leave it to the time trial...
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 16, 2011, 08:10:10 pm
Jens has joined Twitter now, brilliant ! Now his one liners can be broadcast instantaneously to thousands of people.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 16, 2011, 08:16:07 pm
I'm starting to wonder about Thomas Voeckler. Very in form.  If everyone else keeps cancelling each other out he stands a chance. He didn't look to be in any trouble today. The time trial might be his undoing though.

I'm inclined to agree, though it now looks like the GC contenders are waiting for the Thursday and Friday's stages to go for the sort-out. Nothing will happen tomorrow apart from some maillot vert action; the stages to Gap and Pinerolo are downhill finishes so they are more likely to be breakaway days. Mind you, the final climbs on those stages do offer an attacking opportunity to a GC rider with sufficient descending madskilz to maintain any gap gained down to the finish.

Having said all that, they could be daft enough to leave it to the time trial...

Now Lance Armstrong is tweeting that he thinks Voeckler has a chance to pull it off. If he did the whole of France would go crazy.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 16, 2011, 08:32:46 pm
Apparently Voeckler is very unpopular amongst the peleton
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 16, 2011, 08:37:27 pm
Apparently Voeckler is very unpopular amongst the peleton

Interesting. Why ?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Fixedwheelnut on July 16, 2011, 08:40:32 pm
I'm starting to wonder about Thomas Voeckler. Very in form.  If everyone else keeps cancelling each other out he stands a chance. He didn't look to be in any trouble today. The time trial might be his undoing though.
Plus 1 I reckon he has a good chance, the others are so busy watching each other they are not putting time in to him just relying on him to suddenly crack, well if he doesn't it will be too late :)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 16, 2011, 08:45:22 pm
He likes a breakaway though so if they don't watch out he will be off again tomorrow.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: bobb on July 16, 2011, 08:46:18 pm
Having said all that, they could be daft enough to leave it to the time trial...

The way they're fannying around at the moment, I wouldn't be surprised!

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 16, 2011, 08:56:44 pm
Why did Andy Schleck not gain two seconds on Voeckler in the GC classification today ? I thought they only got the same time when the gap between the riders was 1 second or under ?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 16, 2011, 09:00:06 pm
Apparently Voeckler is very unpopular amongst the peleton

Interesting. Why ?

Have a read of this:

http://inrng.com/2011/07/popularity-the-peloton-vs-the-public/#more-4284

I can't help but respect the guy, nevertheless

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 16, 2011, 09:06:06 pm
OK I see they don't like him because his tactics are good :)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Mrs Pingu on July 16, 2011, 09:59:51 pm
That was exciting! And Evans attacked! Almost. I will have to eat my hat...
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 16, 2011, 10:03:18 pm
That was exciting! And Evans attacked! Almost. I will have to eat my hat...

Almost. He caught himself just in time though.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 16, 2011, 11:11:03 pm
Someone else noticed Andy checking over his shoulder for frank repeatedly too. Andy could have blown away the competition today, but didn't want to drop his brother when frank was not having a good day. We might just see a schleck one two for yellow.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 16, 2011, 11:31:31 pm
Someone else noticed Andy checking over his shoulder for frank repeatedly too. Andy could have blown away the competition today, but didn't want to drop his brother when frank was not having a good day. We might just see a schleck one two for yellow.

If either Schleck wants the win badly enough, they're going to have to sacrifice the other's bid.

If we assume that the GC situation doesn't change over the next three stages, one of the GC contender teams has to take the initiative and crank up the pace on the Col d'Izoard to a level that Europcar aren't comfortable with. Then on the Col du Lautaret, Andy needs to stop worrying about his brother having un jour sans and just go for it.

If Voeckler's still in yellow on Friday morning, it's going to have to get ugly on the way to the Alpe, and it's going to have get ugly early.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rhys W on July 17, 2011, 12:06:58 am
As is usual with brothers, the youngest is the better rider. Frank seemed to be doing ok today, he attacked first (I think).

Nothing will be decided tomorrow, then a couple of transition stages (breakaways from riders who are well down on GC). I don't know if Contador is planning a takeaway for Monday, but Thursday and Friday will be the big sorting-out days.

I'm very impressed by Voeckler, if he can match Evans and the Schlecks again he's a winner. A French winner!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 17, 2011, 12:26:20 am
That was disappointing today. Chapeau to Voeckler, but all the supposed contenders made it far too easy for him. I don't believe he will win outright.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 17, 2011, 08:03:00 am
I didn't think it was disappointing at all.  I thought it was normal and careful.  It is too early to bury yourself and kick your legs into several days of pain.  Perhaps years ago they would have but then perhaps more so back then they had different 'preparations' to help them recover.  I thought it was interesting watching Andy Schleck and Frank testing the other GC contenders.  The real surprise was Basso.  I thought in the lead up that he had crashed and was very poorly and out of form.  Either that was true and he has magically recovered or it was smoke and mirrors to keep the pressure off him.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 17, 2011, 08:33:49 am
Someone else noticed Andy checking over his shoulder for frank repeatedly too. Andy could have blown away the competition today, but didn't want to drop his brother when frank was not having a good day. We might just see a schleck one two for yellow.

If either Schleck wants the win badly enough, they're going to have to sacrifice the other's bid.

If we assume that the GC situation doesn't change over the next three stages, one of the GC contender teams has to take the initiative and crank up the pace on the Col d'Izoard to a level that Europcar aren't comfortable with. Then on the Col du Lautaret, Andy needs to stop worrying about his brother having un jour sans and just go for it.

We've only seen 2 days of real mountain finishes. On the last, Frank gained about 20 seconds on the other main GC contenders. Yesterday, the  stage was EVIL. I'm guessing that Frank was just more fatigued he expected. There probably aren't many people who know exactly what Frank's capable of in the mountains and that neither you nor I are are included in that group. Andy probably does know what his brother can do on a good day. I reckon that we'll see Frank ride away on one of the big finishes and brother Andy jump across. End result = unbeatable advantage to both brothers in one stage.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 17, 2011, 09:33:00 am
I wouldn't mind that result at all.  They should look out for each other.  They are close and it would be a great finish for a TdF.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 17, 2011, 12:19:00 pm
The onus is on the Schlecks to attack Evans.  Obviously bertie has to get off his backside too  ;)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 17, 2011, 12:26:42 pm
That's what's disappointing - the Schlecks *have* tried to attack, but so far, their combined efforts haven't been enough to make Cadel so much as break sweat, and he doesn't need to do anything beyond sitting pretty, waiting for the time trial.

I'm left hoping Contador finds some form by the time they hit the Alps, which is not something I imagined myself saying before the race.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: clifftaylor on July 17, 2011, 12:50:20 pm
I think that Andy could have attacked yesterday, and done some damage to some of his rivals. The team, and the Schlecks, need to decide whether they want to win the race, or win the "most loyal to your brother" award - Contador seems to be getting better, and Evans has yet to be put under real pressure.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 17, 2011, 01:21:37 pm
That's what's disappointing - the Schlecks *have* tried to attack, but so far, their combined efforts haven't been enough to make Cadel so much as break sweat

They've BOTH broken away on separate days. Frank put 20 seconds in on the first mountain top finish, Andy a handful yesterday.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 17, 2011, 03:24:16 pm
When Frank broke, Cadel let him go and only chased when it started to look like a meaningful gap. Andy's 2 seconds yesterday aren't going to cause any loss of sleep in the BMC camp...

I'll stick my neck out and say I still think it's Cadel's to lose. 

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 17, 2011, 03:36:48 pm
Femur and pelvis. Ouch ouch ouch!!!

d.

That'll be his last pro ride

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/alexandre-vinokourov-announces-his-retirement

Not a good way to bow out
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Heaney on July 17, 2011, 04:17:11 pm
Vino did announce his retirement when he was banned as well, so maybe he will change his mind when he is up and about again. Although his age is going against him now it would be nice to see him racing again.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 17, 2011, 07:31:55 pm
How many days in green does Cav have to win before Specialized give him a green Venge ?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: David Martin on July 18, 2011, 08:27:03 am
Will Cav really go to Sky if HTC fold? I think it would be a big mistake as Sky are GC focused and won't be able to support both Yellow and Green ambitions adequately.

My suspicion is that GreenEdge may be the option for Cav - space to take lots of his favourite lead out riders and no big GC ambitions yet.

..d
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: JT on July 18, 2011, 08:50:06 am
Will Cav really go to Sky if HTC fold? I think it would be a big mistake as Sky are GC focused and won't be able to support both Yellow and Green ambitions adequately.

My suspicion is that GreenEdge may be the option for Cav - space to take lots of his favourite lead out riders and no big GC ambitions yet.

..d

He's definitely going to Team Sky - I've heard it straight from [redacted].   :-X  ::-)

Team Sky's only current viable (British) contender for grand tours is Wiggins - they're not that GC-focused.



Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: David Martin on July 18, 2011, 08:53:56 am
long term or for a single (Olympic) season?

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 18, 2011, 09:09:54 am
Great effort from HTC again. Loads of attempts to disrupt by other teams. Farrar badly let down by Garmin. Gilbert's suicide attack looked like an effortto disrupt/tire out HTC, maybe hoping that Greipel could nick in and deny Cav the green jersey points
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: border-rider on July 18, 2011, 09:13:51 am
Other teams developed tactics to disrupt HTC's leadout, and it worked well in the past, but HTC seem now to have worked out how to handle it and sometimes even manage to use the other teams' efforts to springboard their own
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: JT on July 18, 2011, 09:16:44 am
long term or for a single (Olympic) season?

We didn't discuss the length of the contract.

Regardless of a rider's speciality (sprinting, climbing,  TT's, whatever) Team Sky will always be looking to sign them if they're talented and British.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: mattc on July 18, 2011, 09:57:06 am
I think that Andy could have attacked yesterday, and done some damage to some of his rivals. The team, and the Schlecks, need to decide whether they want to win the race, or win the "most loyal to your brother" award - Contador seems to be getting better, and Evans has yet to be put under real pressure.
I'd agree with that. They want a podium 1-2, but at the moment they look quite likely to get a 3-4.

It's incredibly rare to get a 1-2 in the Tour, because it's not easy; they should keep attacking until ONE of them puts time into the opposition, then the other brother can fight for himself and just see what happens. It would be awful to finish 3-4 without having ever really gone for it.

Probably.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 18, 2011, 10:57:03 am
Thursday's stage could well answer a lot of questions. If either (or both) of the Schlecks fail to make a decisive attack then, they'll never do it. Ever. As long as they live.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: jogler on July 18, 2011, 12:38:01 pm
Will Cav really go to Sky if HTC fold? I think it would be a big mistake as Sky are GC focused and won't be able to support both Yellow and Green ambitions adequately.

My suspicion is that GreenEdge may be the option for Cav - space to take lots of his favourite lead out riders and no big GC ambitions yet.

..d

He's definitely going to Team Sky - I've heard it straight from [redacted].   :-X  ::-)

Team Sky's only current viable (British) contender for grand tours is Wiggins - they're not that GC-focused.

The fact is that with Cav. on board,Team Sky* will have more podium exposure ( = success) more frequently than not having him  thereby raising their own profile & credibility.

*or whichever team he rides for
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 18, 2011, 01:12:23 pm
I don't think it's inevitable that Cav joining Sky would kill their GC ambitions. Sure, it's unusual for a team to be successful on both fronts, but far from unheard of (see Zabel & Riis/Ullrich).

It would slightly limit their options in the mountains as they'd need to sacrifice one team member to escort Cav through ahead of the broom wagon, but with super-domestiques of the quality of Thomas and EBH, they've got riders who are capable of both leading out a sprint and riding to support a GC contender in the mountains. And if Cav joins Sky, surely he'll want to bring Renshaw and Eisel with him?

Imagine... Wiggo, Cav, Thomas, EBH, Flecha, Gerrans, Uran, Renshaw, Eisel.

Sky's problem long-term could well be keeping the fringe members of their already large roster happy. They've got the likes of Pauwels and Lofkvist on the sidelines - two of their strongest riders in last year's Tour who didn't make the cut this year. Henderson has grumbled on twitter about not getting picked. Cav joining Sky would probably put a dent in Ben Swift's ambitions. And when will Peter Kennaugh get his chance?

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 18, 2011, 03:03:40 pm
http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/07/news/leopard-director-defends-teams-tactics-at-tour-de-france_184672

Quote
[Kim] Andersen said the three mountain stages unfolded as they expected, but admitted that the Schleck brothers didn’t have the legs they needed to make substantial gains on their top GC rivals.

Quote
“Alberto is not at his best, they are all equal. Maybe that’s normal after he does a hard Giro. Maybe he gets better in the Alps, we don’t know. I think it would be good if Alberto could attack, because we can go with him. We have a good gap with him,” Andersen said. “I don’t like to put a number on it – but we need more time on (Evans). He is the most dangerous one right now if nothing changes, but it will change. The Alps will decide everything in this Tour. Those big climbs will be hard for everyone.”

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Karla on July 18, 2011, 03:12:50 pm
if Cav joins Sky, surely he'll want to bring Renshaw and Eisel with him?

Dontchathink Renshaw might like to stay at home and get a bit more glory for himself after Cav's left?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: JT on July 18, 2011, 03:24:38 pm
Mark Renshaw and Bernie Eisel are both contracted to HTC until the end of next season (2012). Unless HTC fold they'll be staying put as Sky are highly unlikely to poach someone again after the negative fallout from the Wiggins/Garmin affair. Matt Goss could easily take over from Cav in their train.

If High Road do have a sponsor lined up I'd expect them to announce that during this Tour for maximum exposure. I hope they do, they are an excellent team and are great at spotting young talented riders and bringing them on.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 18, 2011, 04:04:34 pm
OK, so this proves nothing but it's interesting...

http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/2011/news/renshaw-vows-to-stick-with-cavendish/

I also hope HTC survive for the same reasons as you, JT. It's bonkers that no one wants to sponsor the most successful team in the sport.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 18, 2011, 09:22:29 pm
When Frank broke, Cadel let him go and only chased when it started to look like a meaningful gap. Andy's 2 seconds yesterday aren't going to cause any loss of sleep in the BMC camp...

I'll stick my neck out and say I still think it's Cadel's to lose.

I watched it again this evening and Cuddles was far closer to the limit on that climb than Andy. The only reason that the bunch came back to Andy was that he sat up to see where everyone had got to. If he has that form in the big climbs next week, I'm expecting to see him gain 1 or 2 minutes on the first big day of climbing.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 19, 2011, 01:37:52 am
I watched it again this evening and Cuddles was far closer to the limit on that climb than Andy. The only reason that the bunch came back to Andy was that he sat up to see where everyone had got to.

Interesting. I didn't see it that way at all. I thought Cadel looked relatively comfortable, but maybe I'm mistaken. Maybe it's just wishful thinking.

Also, if Andy was capable of riding away from the group and didn't do it, then he must be mentally deficient, because I can't see that it would make any sense tactically to get the whole team riding hard at the front of the peloton all day and then not finish the job...

Anyway, I guess the Alps are a different kettle of fish to the Pyrenees and we'll find out the truth either way come Thursday.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Riggers on July 19, 2011, 08:39:18 am
Tons and tons of abandons on the Etape yesterday, apparently, due to hypothermia. Let's hope the weather improves for the racers.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: mattc on July 19, 2011, 09:15:09 am

Also, if Andy was capable of riding away from the group and didn't do it, then he must be mentally deficient, because I can't see that it would make any sense tactically to get the whole team riding hard at the front of the peloton all day and then not finish the job...

... or the silly sod wanted to finish the stage holding hands with his brother. ::-)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: eeymsmo on July 19, 2011, 09:25:34 am

Also, if Andy was capable of riding away from the group and didn't do it, then he must be mentally deficient, because I can't see that it would make any sense tactically to get the whole team riding hard at the front of the peloton all day and then not finish the job...

... or the silly sod wanted to finish the stage holding hands with his brother. ::-)

Andy explains his strategy in a post stage 14 interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrGWczbwDRY
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Gus on July 19, 2011, 09:37:45 am
Tons and tons of abandons on the Etape yesterday, apparently, due to hypothermia. Let's hope the weather improves for the racers.

It's snowing on col de Galbier again today  :(
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 19, 2011, 10:18:45 am
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/flecha-wont-be-surprised-if-voeckler-wins-tour-de-france

Got to say, I noticed Voeckler accelerate immediately after the crash, and it is undoubtedly true that he exploited the crash to get himself in yellow.

He has done well to keep hold of it, regardless
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 19, 2011, 10:22:44 am
... or the silly sod wanted to finish the stage holding hands with his brother. ::-)

I could well believe that. But surely the silly sod had his DS screaming in his ear telling him to just bloody get on with it?

Andy explains his strategy in a post stage 14 interview:

 ;D

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: JT on July 19, 2011, 10:39:24 am
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/flecha-wont-be-surprised-if-voeckler-wins-tour-de-france

Got to say, I noticed Voeckler accelerate immediately after the crash, and it is undoubtedly true that he exploited the crash to get himself in yellow.

He has done well to keep hold of it, regardless

Voekler didn't show any class when he capitalised on that crash but I agree he's done well to retain the MJ.

Some interesting quotes in that link from Flecha... reinforces some of what I read in this article:
http://inrng.com/2011/07/popularity-the-peloton-vs-the-public/ (http://inrng.com/2011/07/popularity-the-peloton-vs-the-public/)


Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 19, 2011, 11:03:34 am
So what was Voeckler supposed to do? The only circumstances where I can imagine any rider stopping in that situation is if it were a team-mate who'd been involved in the crash.

Did any of the riders who capitalised on the crash on day one stop to check Contador was OK?

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: JT on July 19, 2011, 11:16:03 am
I'm not suggesting he should have stopped, it's the acceleration almost immediately after the incident that's not very classy.

IMHO, he should have carried on at the same pace or even slowed a little for a short period to see if his breakaway companions could get back on before trying to take advantage of the situation.

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: mattc on July 19, 2011, 11:19:12 am
So what was Voeckler supposed to do? The only circumstances where I can imagine any rider stopping in that situation is if it were a team-mate who'd been involved in the crash.

Did any of the riders who capitalised on the crash on day one stop to check Contador was OK?

d.
Agreed.

There has been limited precedent where GC contenders have waited for each other*, or at least chosen to not attack. But a breakaway is very different. I dont recall any precedent for riders in a breakaway waiting - in this situation it would have been catastrophic for Voeckler (+2?).

I suspect Voeckler has got past form, leading to riders taking the most -ve possible view of this situation. I have to say that this seems like a campaign of whispers to me so far - everyone states that he's not popular, but I'm not really sure why. Are there specific incidents, or does he just rub folks up the wrong way?  ???

Would Evans-Voeckler-Contador be the least popular podium ever?!?




*I don't really want to rake over the whole Ulrich-Lance thing again...
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: JT on July 19, 2011, 11:35:46 am
This was not a puncture or a rider touching a wheel. An official car took out two riders - a highly unusual situation - and in those circumstances I personally thought he should have been a little less selfish, just for a moment.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 19, 2011, 12:13:37 pm
I don't believe Voeckler behaved differently to how any other rider would have behaved in that situation.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Riggers on July 19, 2011, 02:11:26 pm
Weather doesn't sound too good on the stage at present. There is talk of limiting the stage due to adverse weather up the mountain.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 19, 2011, 03:04:10 pm
Does anyone think that Europcar will be complaining about lack of value for money of their sponsorship?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Gus on July 19, 2011, 04:52:41 pm

What a great race today.

I just found this blog with some really nice photos from TdF : http://blog.onev.com.au/ (http://blog.onev.com.au/)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 19, 2011, 05:00:05 pm
That was an interesting stage, and we haven't even hit the high Alps yet!

Cuddles and Bertie the moral winners today.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 19, 2011, 05:03:48 pm
I was not impressed by Schleck (A) whinging about the design of the course.

Roads sometimes go downhill, Andy. And sometimes it rains. Especially in mountains.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 19, 2011, 05:21:41 pm
I was not impressed by Schleck (A) whinging about the design of the course.

Roads sometimes go downhill, Andy. And sometimes it rains. Especially in mountains.

^ This.

Too bad that he'd been gapped on the way up, and that Cancellara wasn't up front, trying to neutralise the day's racing as per Stage 2 of last year's race (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Tour_de_France,_Prologue_to_Stage_10#Stage_2).  :demon:

He really needs to grow a pair, and get some CX or MTB practice during the off-season.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Gus on July 19, 2011, 05:40:16 pm

I'm pretty sure that Riis was smiling all the way home today, he knows the weaknesses of the Schleck brothers
and used that today, they can not decend.
I am looking forward to tomorrows stage, the 8 km down to the finish are said to be worse than the one today (steeper, curvy and wet spots)
according to Rolf sørensen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolf_S%C3%B8rensen). He rides the last 20-30km of each stage the same morning and reports + rides all the Cols and decends before the TdF.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 19, 2011, 06:11:41 pm

I'm pretty sure that Riis was smiling all the way home today, he knows the weaknesses of the Schleck brothers
and used that today, they can not decend.
I am looking forward to tomorrows stage, the 8 km down to the finish are said to be worse than the one today (steeper, curvy and wet spots)
according to Rolf sørensen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolf_S%C3%B8rensen). He rides the last 20-30km of each stage the same morning and reports + rides all the Cols and decends before the TdF.

However, given that Cuddles and even Voeckler are both good descenders, I wouldn't be complacent if I were big Bjarne.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rainmaker on July 19, 2011, 06:14:49 pm
Quote from: Raminphrikesh Pharghangitalivati

Got to say, I noticed Voeckler accelerate immediately after the crash, and it is undoubtedly true that he exploited the crash to get himself in yellow.

How did he exploit the crash?   He was set on gaining time to get the yellow jersey, he might have gained more time had there been five riders in the breakaway rather than the three remaining.   He did speak to his team car , I think they have tv's in the car so they would have been aware of the situation.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Karla on July 19, 2011, 08:14:24 pm
How much time do the riders have to hold in the Alps? I was thinking about this question just now, so decided to draw u a table of how the leaders have fared in the recent final time trials.  Here are the results.   

Year                           2010          2009          2008          2007
ITT distance (km)     52              40.5           53              55.5
Thomas Voeckler      01:10:07   00:53:42   01:15:09   01:08:34
Alberto Contador      01:06:49   00:48:31   --               01:05:02
Cadel Evans              01:11:54   00:49:45   01:05:55   01:03:35
Andy Schleck            01:07:10   00:50:15   01:07:52   --
Frank Schleck            --               00:51:05   01:09:28   01:08:02

If the Schlecks don't pull their siamese-joined fingers out it'll be a battle between Cuddles and Contador - unless it's 2010 again they're not that different but are both much better than the BS (but we knew that.)  Unless Voeckler can inspire himself to the TT of his life, holding on in the Alps won't be good enough for him: he'll have to attack as he's the worst TTer in the list by quite some margin.  Somehow, I don't see that happening.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 19, 2011, 08:16:35 pm
Thor's grin when crossing the line was huge.  I think Edwald Boasen Hagen went to sleep for a moment there.  Shame as it would have been good to see them go head to head.  This is certainly a very entertaining race - best one I have seen in years.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 19, 2011, 08:22:13 pm
How did he exploit the crash?   He was set on gaining time to get the yellow jersey, he might have gained more time had there been five riders in the breakaway rather than the three remaining.   He did speak to his team car , I think they have tv's in the car so they would have been aware of the situation.

He ended up in yellow because of the crash. Not the most sporting way to get a yellow jersey.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: andygates on July 19, 2011, 08:43:28 pm
Lovely bit of work from the Thighs of Thunder today. :thumbsup:

That wet descent really did separate the men from the boys, eh?  I've never ridden a wet mountain descent: the one opportunity I had, I bottled and went in the bus.  Balls, steel, pair of.  Sparks optional.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: SpaceBadger on July 19, 2011, 08:49:29 pm
Had my money on Contador all the way through, fully expecting him to come good. Looks like that time might just about have arrived.

Schleck is a whinging git. His post-race interview was an embarassment to himself and his team. He should focus more on growing a pair than growing a moustache  ;D
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 19, 2011, 09:23:31 pm
Something that Paul Sherwen mentioned in the live coverage was that Voeckler had stopped to reduce his tyre pressures - I wonder how many in the peloton had the presence of mind to do that? Ok, so softer tyres may be a slight drag if the roads were dry, but on a wet descent, it probably made the difference between having the confidence to ride down at warp speed and tippy-toeing down like a complete n00b.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: andygates on July 19, 2011, 09:26:00 pm
He's been having as many li'l skitterslides as anyone, so it's smart.  It takes a cool head to do that in a race, though, and I'm impressed with that.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 19, 2011, 09:28:19 pm
He ended up in yellow because of the crash.

Which crash do you mean?

If you mean the one that took out Vino et al, you might be right - Cancellara's go-slow let the breakaway extend its lead enough for him to get the margin he needed.

If you mean the crash that took out Flecha and Hoogerland, you're just plain wrong. As the highest placed rider in that five-man group, he was the only one who had a chance of taking yellow if the breakaway went all the way to the line, whether or not he won the stage and regardless of any crashes or their circumstances. He had nothing to gain by losing two men who would have done their stint at the front of the group.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 19, 2011, 09:53:06 pm
It'll be pretty obvious which crash I'm referring to, to anybody who watched that stage.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: valkyrie on July 19, 2011, 10:47:35 pm
How did he exploit the crash?   He was set on gaining time to get the yellow jersey, he might have gained more time had there been five riders in the breakaway rather than the three remaining.   He did speak to his team car , I think they have tv's in the car so they would have been aware of the situation.

He ended up in yellow because of the crash. Not the most sporting way to get a yellow jersey.

I agree with Rainmaker on this one, but I'm curious - who do you think should have ended up in yellow at the end of that stage?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: David Martin on July 19, 2011, 11:26:25 pm
Last year cuddles was riding with some degree of pain following earlier accidents. He was also well off the podium. I would expect that if Evans has a minute on Contador going into the final TT and less than 2:30 behind Tommy rentacar then he would be a dead cert for yellow. Expect another repeat of today with the Schlecks dropped on the descent. Evans, Contador and Voekler can all descend well (as can Sanchez).

Barring accidents I think that Contador and Evans will be on the podium, but who the other will be and the final order I couldn't guess. The Schlecks have to attack big style in up to Galibier. It is their only hope for the podium.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 20, 2011, 05:55:27 am
And in years gone by Cadel has not always raced with the confidence he is showing this year, or the brains.  Previously he has not had the team to support him so he found himself isolated and had to wheelsuck before eventually being blown out.  Now we see him up the front with his team doing the work to protect him ala Armstrong etc of previous years.  I was watching his face yesterday for any sign of weakness or real effort and I thought he looked really in control.  I think Contador should be worried.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 20, 2011, 07:11:15 am
One of the most pleasing things from the Tour this year is just how close the GC riders are.  No one appears to be doing a Ricco - has the ability to ride away again, and again, and again.  Looking at the likes of Cav after that uphill srpint when he really did give it his all, slumped on the ground trying to get air into his lungs - that is pleasing in that it is no easy.

I also note that Contador looks a lot rougher on all the close up shots than in any other year.  His baby face complexion is no longer present.  His voice is not as high any more either.  ???
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 20, 2011, 09:19:54 am
I think it is a captivating spectacle. Contador looks up for a fight now, and the Schlecks seem to have been found out. The next few days are going to be a right scrap.

Certainly looks cleaner, although Contador's rejuvenation after a rest day would have raised eyebrows a couple of years back. The old rest day blood bag trick. I'm not really interested in speculation about this stuff though, I'm just enjoying the show and hoping that the end result will be the end result.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 20, 2011, 09:21:23 am
I also note that Contador looks a lot rougher on all the close up shots than in any other year.  His baby face complexion is no longer present.  His voice is not as high any more either.  ???

So you're saying that Bertie's finally out of puberty?  ;D :demon: ;D
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: JT on July 20, 2011, 09:39:23 am
Certainly looks cleaner, although Contador's rejuvenation after a rest day would have raised eyebrows a couple of years back. The old rest day blood bag trick. I'm not really interested in speculation about this stuff though, I'm just enjoying the show and hoping that the end result will be the end result.

Considering his circumstances it would be astonishing if Contador wasn't riding this (and probably the Giro) clean.

I'm suspicious of the Schlecks, particularly Frank given his history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A4nk_Schleck#Doping_allegations) and, sadly,  Evans too after the Sven S. story (with typical bumbling, denials by team management (http://inrng.com/2011/06/bmc-racing-hired-sven-schoutteten-for-many-races/)).

However, I'm enjoying the spectacle regardless of the above. I think yesterday's stage proved that Voekler cannot hold the MJ until Paris and today I expect Contador and Evans to go on the attack again - even if it's only on the descents to put the wind up rat face boy Andrew Schleck.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Salvatore on July 20, 2011, 09:43:58 am
I also note that Contador looks a lot rougher on all the close up shots than in any other year.  His baby face complexion is no longer present.  His voice is not as high any more either.  ???

So you're saying that Bertie's finally out of puberty?  ;D :demon: ;D

He's no longer inflating himself with helium to enable him to float over the cols.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: fungus on July 20, 2011, 12:22:30 pm
Crashes are a part of the race & if you're in a break up the road when one happens you are not expected to sit up & wait for people to catch up.  Especially so if you're not a GC rider like Tommy V.   As said above this has been one of the best races for years & hopefully the next couple of days will be equally as exciting  :)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Mrs Pingu on July 20, 2011, 12:57:59 pm
Moar bleating by the Brothers Grimm.
If you can't stand the heat.....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/jul/20/tour-de-france-2011-schleck-dangerous-descent
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: RJ on July 20, 2011, 01:20:33 pm
Moar bleating by the Brothers Grimm.
If you can't stand the heat.....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/jul/20/tour-de-france-2011-schleck-dangerous-descent

My heart bleeds  ;)

This is all fantastic entertainment:
I think it is a captivating spectacle. Contador looks up for a fight now, and the Schlecks seem to have been found out. The next few days are going to be a right scrap.

Certainly looks cleaner, although Contador's rejuvenation after a rest day would have raised eyebrows a couple of years back. The old rest day blood bag trick. I'm not really interested in speculation about this stuff though, I'm just enjoying the show and hoping that the end result will be the end result.

Plus I've enjoyed Thor Hushovd's stage wins ...
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Steve GT on July 20, 2011, 01:33:15 pm
Nice see Cavendish have a gel then put the plastic container into his pocket :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 20, 2011, 01:34:39 pm
Samuel Dumoulin commented on twitter the other day about how the riders are expected to be "green" by not discarding bottles, but then there are seven helicopters following the race...

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 20, 2011, 01:37:24 pm
Norway is claiming the top three places in yesterday's stage, however tenuously.
http://www.newsinenglish.no/2011/07/19/the-third-norwegian-cycling-hero/
The story at present is that the cold and wet weather is favouring bigger riders, who don't have to spend their time caped up. They'd usually be seen sweating at the back of the field, unable to repsond to the accelerations of the whippet-men. But the stick-thin boys can't risk a cold, the situation will change if the weather warms up.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: mattc on July 20, 2011, 02:44:49 pm
Norway is claiming the top three places in yesterday's stage, however tenuously.
http://www.newsinenglish.no/2011/07/19/the-third-norwegian-cycling-hero/
The story at present is that the cold and wet weather is favouring bigger riders, who don't have to spend their time caped up. They'd usually be seen sweating at the back of the field, unable to repsond to the accelerations of the whippet-men. But the stick-thin boys can't risk a cold, the situation will change if the weather warms up.

I think you missed the schadenfreude smiley from your post, ESL.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Karla on July 20, 2011, 04:08:43 pm
Well done to EBH for a fantastic ride.  I've probably said it before but that guy's a star.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 20, 2011, 04:14:13 pm
Well done to EBH for a fantastic ride.  I've probably said it before but that guy's a star.  :thumbsup:

+1

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 20, 2011, 05:02:37 pm
That final descent didn't look that bad. :demon:

Mind you, today was sunny and I wouldn't need to be riding down it quite as fast as those guys. ;D
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 20, 2011, 05:09:00 pm
I still reckon that the schlecks are planning something! I've got the afternoons off tomorrow and Friday so I can find out just what they've got up their (aerodynamic) sleeves!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Justin(e) on July 20, 2011, 05:26:21 pm
I still reckon that the schlecks are planning something! I've got the afternoons off tomorrow and Friday so I can find out just what they've got up their (aerodynamic) sleeves!

But can they execute?

I think it is Contador/Evans for the top spot.

and the rest to fight it out for third.  Andy, Frank, Voeckler and Sanchez.

C'mon Cadel, or "Yell for Cadel" as they want to us to say down here.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 20, 2011, 05:54:09 pm
Of the GC contenders...

Voeckler:
We can forget about him for the overall, he'll crack on either the Col d'Izoard or on the Galibier tomorrow, there won't be any mid-stage truces like we've had on the last two days to give him an easy ride to the finish.

Evans:
He's probably in the best position, being a better tester than the Schecks he knows that he can afford to lose a little time to Frank, and Andy has to claw back 1'18" before he's even level. He's got 2 minutes on Contador, so again, he can afford to do just enough to limit losses on the stages.

Frank Schleck:
Needs to put 1-2 minutes on Evans to have a buffer zone for Saturday, though 3 minutes might be preferable.

Andy Schleck:
Needs to beat Evans by 2 minutes per stage to have a buffer on Saturday. Too much to ask?

Samuel Sanchez:
He'll be joined at the hip to Contador through the Alps. Not sure what his time-trialling is like, a good bet for the podium, maybe not the overall,

Alberto Contador:
Just under 2 minutes behind Evans, I reckon he'll want a minute or two on the Aussie. The question is whether he waits for the final climb tomorrow before lighting the blue paper, or will he try to go early? Alberto attacks!

Damiano Cunego and Ivan Basso aren't that far behind Contador, but despite them being in the final selection a few times, I'm not sure that either can do enough to get the overall.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 20, 2011, 06:13:29 pm
Samuel Sanchez:
He'll be joined at the hip to Contador through the Alps. Not sure what his time-trialling is like, a good bet for the podium, maybe not the overall,

What I find really interesting is the way Sanchez and Contador have formed an alliance. Presumably Sanchez thinks it improves his own chances of a podium spot.

Sanchez's time-trialling isn't too bad - considerably better than either of the Schlecks. (He won the time trial in the 2007 Vuelta (http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/vuelta07/?id=results/vuelta0720) - beat Cadel by 19 seconds over the 20km course, apparently.)

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 20, 2011, 07:54:24 pm
I still reckon that the schlecks are planning something! I've got the afternoons off tomorrow and Friday so I can find out just what they've got up their (aerodynamic) sleeves!

They'd better grow a pair each and learn how to ride downhill first.

Today they're both whinging about the course.

Get over it, boys - you entered the race, so get on with it! Riding downhill is just as valid a skill as riding uphill or on the flat.

All Cuddles, Voeckler and Bertie the Beefeater need to do to beat them is to get away on the descents.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Tewdric on July 20, 2011, 08:06:02 pm
Today was epic.  It's going to be a proper bunfight from now to Paris.  Best tour for years IMHO.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 20, 2011, 08:40:45 pm
Get over it, boys - you entered the race, so get on with it! Riding downhill is just as valid a skill as riding uphill or on the flat.

You've got to remember that descents can be properly, life-threateningly dangerous, not just a way of losing time.

There's got to be a line that defines when a descent's too dangerous. Is a single track, windy road it? How about if it was wet? Vertical drop offs? Packs of bears patrolling the roads?

I do wonder if the organisers have added to the danger in the name of entertainment.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: jogler on July 20, 2011, 08:53:55 pm
Today was epic.  It's going to be a proper bunfight from now to Paris.  Best tour for years IMHO.


+1
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Deano on July 20, 2011, 08:56:22 pm
Edvald Boasson Hagen looks like the real deal.

I warmed to him at the start of a Tour of Britain stage a couple of years ago, where he tolerated my old man giving him tips for the race.  Not that my old man's tips are bad, but... ;D
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: jogler on July 20, 2011, 08:58:06 pm
Edvald Boasson Hagen looks like the real deal.

I warmed to him at the start of a Tour of Britain stage a couple of years ago, where he tolerated my old man giving him tips for the race. Not that my old man's tips are bad, but... ;D

they have clearly done EBH some good :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: David Martin on July 20, 2011, 09:01:59 pm
I still reckon that the schlecks are planning something! I've got the afternoons off tomorrow and Friday so I can find out just what they've got up their (aerodynamic) sleeves!

They'd better grow a pair each and learn how to ride downhill first.

Today they're both whinging about the course.

Get over it, boys - you entered the race, so get on with it! Riding downhill is just as valid a skill as riding uphill or on the flat.

All Cuddles, Voeckler and Bertie the Beefeater need to do to beat them is to get away on the descents.

As Dave Brailsford said 'they have known for nearly a year that those descents are on the route.' and in paraphrase 'why are they waiting till now to complain about them? Stop whining and grow a pair, or at least do your homework properly'
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 20, 2011, 09:22:18 pm
You've got to remember that descents can be properly, life-threateningly dangerous, not just a way of losing time.

There's got to be a line that defines when a descent's too dangerous. Is a single track, windy road it? How about if it was wet? Vertical drop offs? Packs of bears patrolling the roads?

I do wonder if the organisers have added to the danger in the name of entertainment.

A Tour winner should be a well-rounded rider, outstanding in some aspects and at least competent in the rest. Descending is a skill and only having mountaintop finishes doesn't allow skilful descenders to make the most of their abilities. I'm glad the TdF organisers have finally put together a well-rounded Tour after years of one-dimensional courses.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 20, 2011, 09:26:04 pm
Get over it, boys - you entered the race, so get on with it! Riding downhill is just as valid a skill as riding uphill or on the flat.

You've got to remember that descents can be properly, life-threateningly dangerous, not just a way of losing time.

There's got to be a line that defines when a descent's too dangerous. Is a single track, windy road it? How about if it was wet? Vertical drop offs? Packs of bears patrolling the roads?

I do wonder if the organisers have added to the danger in the name of entertainment.

What DM and LW&B said ^^.

Sorry, if you can't ride fast down a dangerous, twisty, narrow descent, then cycle racing is not a wise career choice. Stick to touring (if you can find companions patient enough to wait for you).

You can always slow down and lose the race, if you think it's too dangerous.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 20, 2011, 09:29:00 pm
A Tour winner should be a well-rounded rider, outstanding in some aspects and at least competent in the rest. Descending is a skill and only having mountaintop finishes doesn't allow skilful descenders to make the most of their abilities. I'm glad the TdF organisers have finally put together a well-rounded Tour after years of one-dimensional courses.

I'm not disagreeing, but where do you draw the line with regards to dangerous descents for the sake of entertainment? I say this because the commentary today didn't go 5 minutes without mentioning how dangerous the descent was ad that was two different lots of commentators. 5 live sounded properly concerned for the safety of the riders.

Riders will take risks that are too great to win anyhow, you only have to look at the riders who died in their sleep after EPO usage.

Again, let's not forget that there's already been one fatality this year on a descent.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: jogler on July 20, 2011, 09:29:34 pm

I do wonder if the organisers have added to the danger in the name of entertainment.

will we be getting

TdF the Gladiator version?
TdF the Braveheart version?

 ;D
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 20, 2011, 09:44:08 pm
A Tour winner should be a well-rounded rider, outstanding in some aspects and at least competent in the rest. Descending is a skill and only having mountaintop finishes doesn't allow skilful descenders to make the most of their abilities. I'm glad the TdF organisers have finally put together a well-rounded Tour after years of one-dimensional courses.

I'm not disagreeing, but where do you draw the line with regards to dangerous descents for the sake of entertainment? I say this because the commentary today didn't go 5 minutes without mentioning how dangerous the descent was ad that was two different lots of commentators. 5 live sounded properly concerned for the safety of the riders.

Riders will take risks that are too great to win anyhow, you only have to look at the riders who died in their sleep after EPO usage.

Again, let's not forget that there's already been one fatality this year on a descent.

Well, first, the TdF and the Giro started as publicity stunts for the media, as they are still to some extent. And the Giro and the Vuelta have both at times been publicity stunts for fascist governments. The result of all this has been the creation of the world's greatest three-week bicycle races.

Second, all the riders reached Pinerolo safely today, including those who went hors-piste - and one of those still holds the maillot jaune.

And, third, Wouter Weyland died after he'd given up descending fast - he slowed down after realising he wasn't going to win any prizes that day. He crashed after looking back to see whether any others were coming down who he could link up with to finish the descent.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 20, 2011, 09:50:49 pm
Any descent is only as dangerous as you are willing to make it.

EBH had taken the trouble to recce the Cote de Pramartino, and it paid dividends in that he was able to descend in confidence, without running out of road.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/descent-recon-pays-dividends-for-boasson-hagen
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 20, 2011, 10:05:55 pm
I'm not saying these descents are dangerous. What I'm wondering is where you draw the line?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 20, 2011, 10:10:29 pm
Punji stake pits are probably over the line. Most other things are fine though.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 20, 2011, 10:42:39 pm
Edvald Boasson Hagen looks like the real deal.


+1  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 20, 2011, 10:50:51 pm
I'm not saying these descents are dangerous. What I'm wondering is where you draw the line?

If the descent has a reasonably good metalled surface, I wouldn't be too fussed, but dirt/gravel tracks would be pushing things a bit.

There's a relevant thread on the cyclingnews forum and someone's posted a picture of the sort of road that they used to have to ride on.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=613353&postcount=152

I'm not sure I'd fancy riding down that on a modern road bike, perhaps a 'cross bike or a short-travel full-suspension MTB.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 20, 2011, 10:53:42 pm
Any descent is only as dangerous as you are willing to make it.

+1
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 20, 2011, 11:06:11 pm
I'm not saying these descents are dangerous. What I'm wondering is where you draw the line?

When it's not a road? However, the Italians are fond of putting strade bianchi into the parcours. You can even do a sportive over the strade bianchi, on retro bikes and wearing retro kit, ifyou so wish.

On the subject of dodgy downhills, a couple of weeks ago I rode down a descent not unlike that at the end of today's TdF stage (http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=4661356), with the added bonus of four unlit and twisty tunnels.

I wasn't racing, but rode as fast as I dared (with a stop to take photos). IMHO this (and the dirt road leading to it (http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=4661359)) would be a far better end to a TdF stage than Alpe d'Huez on the opposite side of the valley.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 20, 2011, 11:10:51 pm
Get over it, boys - you entered the race, so get on with it! Riding downhill is just as valid a skill as riding uphill or on the flat.

You've got to remember that descents can be properly, life-threateningly dangerous, not just a way of losing time.

There's got to be a line that defines when a descent's too dangerous. Is a single track, windy road it? How about if it was wet? Vertical drop offs? Packs of bears patrolling the roads?

I do wonder if the organisers have added to the danger in the name of entertainment.

What DM and LW&B said ^^.

Sorry, if you can't ride fast down a dangerous, twisty, narrow descent, then cycle racing is not a wise career choice. Stick to touring (if you can find companions patient enough to wait for you).

You can always slow down and lose the race, if you think it's too dangerous.

Not you, personally. I was thinking more of Gebrueder Schleck.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on July 20, 2011, 11:31:19 pm
Are there any more extensive online highlights than what is on offer on ITV4? Some of the stage highlights seem to last just a few minutes and I can no sense of how the stage went at all.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 20, 2011, 11:33:46 pm
Are there any more extensive online highlights than what is on offer on ITV4? Some of the stage highlights seem to last just a few minutes and I can no sense of how the stage went at all.

Try Eurosport if you have broadband and want to pay £35 a year (that's less than 10p a day). They repeat their one-hour highlights programmes a couple of times.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: onb on July 20, 2011, 11:59:28 pm
I am tempted to pull a sickie tomorrow. :o
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 21, 2011, 07:35:47 am
I say this because the commentary today didn't go 5 minutes without mentioning how dangerous the descent was ad that was two different lots of commentators. 5 live sounded properly concerned for the safety of the riders.

You could tell how difficult it was by the way the motorbikes were struggling to keep up - it looked absolutely terrifying !  The cameramen deserve medals for the footage they got yesterday.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 21, 2011, 08:04:53 am
You've got to remember that descents can be properly, life-threateningly dangerous, not just a way of losing time.

Racing involves danger and crashing. Tightly packed pelotons, overlapping wheels in gusty crosswinds, bunch sprints and, yes, descending. If competitors want perfect safety, cycling is the wrong choice.

I'm well aware of the danger of descents. In the late 1980s, I wiped out on a fast descent and hit an oncoming car hard enough that it had to be towed away (as did I). In 1995, I stuffed up a decreasing radius downhill bend, spent 6 months in plaster and collected quite a bit of internal stainless steel. I'm not as fast as I used to be but am still fairly quick downhill.

Even when I was at my fastest downhill, I found one bloke who was quicker. Halfway through a tight 1-in-5 hairpin and thinking I was going pretty quick, 'Animal' came past on my inside, one hand off the bars waving to me. He never has overcooked a corner and his judgement and skill are demonstrably better than mine.

A well-designed stage race allows every talent to be displayed, not just flatlander and anti-gravity skills.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 21, 2011, 09:06:34 am
You've got to remember that descents can be properly, life-threateningly dangerous, not just a way of losing time.

Racing involves danger and crashing. Tightly packed pelotons, overlapping wheels in gusty crosswinds, bunch sprints and, yes, descending. If competitors want perfect safety, cycling is the wrong choice.

<snip>

A well-designed stage race allows every talent to be displayed, not just flatlander and anti-gravity skills.

+1 and +1
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 21, 2011, 09:11:49 am
I say this because the commentary today didn't go 5 minutes without mentioning how dangerous the descent was ad that was two different lots of commentators. 5 live sounded properly concerned for the safety of the riders.

You could tell how difficult it was by the way the motorbikes were struggling to keep up - it looked absolutely terrifying !  The cameramen deserve medals for the footage they got yesterday.

I wondered whether Voeckler's first off (into the trees) was down the the motorbike getting in the way. It may be the lenses they're using, but quite often the cameras have seemed far too close to the action this year.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Access Legal Guy on July 21, 2011, 09:29:02 am
Samuel Sanchez:
He'll be joined at the hip to Contador through the Alps. Not sure what his time-trialling is like, a good bet for the podium, maybe not the overall,

What I find really interesting is the way Sanchez and Contador have formed an alliance. Presumably Sanchez thinks it improves his own chances of a podium spot.

Sanchez's time-trialling isn't too bad - considerably better than either of the Schlecks. (He won the time trial in the 2007 Vuelta (http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/vuelta07/?id=results/vuelta0720) - beat Cadel by 19 seconds over the 20km course, apparently.)

d.


I recall watching the Giro this year and thinking how comfortable Contador was in winning it. Along the way he did a lot to 'help' Spanish riders and particularly Euskaltel riders by dragging them up hills or not attacking them when they were out in front. Nieve and Anton certainly benefited.

did he know he would need allies later in the year?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Mr Larrington on July 21, 2011, 09:53:32 am
Yes, the last descent was on a twisty and narrow road.  But, Frandy, you see those things bolted to your handlebars?  If you pull them towards the bars, you will slow down.  Rumours that Frandy are to be carried from the summit of the Izoard to the foot of the Galibier by helicopter may be exaggerated.

I want to do the main road descent from Sestriere...
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: mattc on July 21, 2011, 10:05:12 am
Eurk. I'm torn between 2 main factors:
- Although pro cycling is inherently dangerous, I don't want it to be a TEST of risk-taking*. Adding risk seems a bad thing.
- Stages like yesterday are a lot less high-risk than the high open mountain roads. Voeckler went off-roading twice with absolutely no ill effects yesterday, on a dry road, noone else to blame - that seems like 2 rider errors to me. So it seems they are not daft and self-regulate.

Nobody looks good whinging about a route they've known for a year. And the Schlecks could have gained time on the climbs if they know they're slower donwhill. So the organisers have probably got it about right.

*OK, I suppose sprinting will always have a large element of nerve vs skill. That's fine, lets not have the MJ decided that way.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 21, 2011, 10:29:32 am
Nobody looks good whinging about a route they've known for a year.

Quite. I understand EBH had actually been out to recce the route of yesterday's run-in well in advance. Good for him.

Quote
*OK, I suppose sprinting will always have a large element of nerve vs skill.

Unless you're in a sprint with Abdoujaparov, when it becomes a bit of a lottery...

There was a story in the local papers recently about a man who suffered serious head injuries after coming off his bike in a race that was part of a "fun day out" organised by his employer. He tried to sue his employer for not carrying out adequate risk assessment (the angle was lack of recommendation to wear a helmet, but let's not go there) but was rejected on the grounds that he'd caused the crash himself by deliberately riding in front of a rival.

It makes you realise that when the top sprinters complain about rivals coming off their line, they do so for damn good reason. These riders know how to sprint safely and probably take far fewer risks than amateurs on fun days out organised by their employer.

Same goes for the downhill bits. These are highly skilled bike handlers. They know how to negotiate these descents safely. Afaics, crashes are generally caused by riders pushing beyond the limits of their abilities, as Voeckler did yesterday.

If Rider A is more skilled at descending than Rider B, then Rider B is faced with either losing time or taking excessive risks to keep up. If they choose the latter, that's their own lookout. As the Schlecks showed yesterday, there's actually not much to be gained by taking excessive risks, and as Voeckler showed, there's plenty to lose.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: mattc on July 21, 2011, 10:36:55 am
Nobody looks good whinging about a route they've known for a year.

Quite. I understand EBH had actually been out to recce the route of yesterday's run-in well in advance. Good for him.

Clarification Request:
I'm sure Halfords Boy mentioned someone else doing a recce - think it was a GC contender - was it one of the Schlecks?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 21, 2011, 10:52:00 am

It makes you realise that when the top sprinters complain about rivals coming off their line, they do so for damn good reason. These riders know how to sprint safely.

Same goes for the downhill bits.

When on my hols a couple of weeks ago I had cause to ride from Briancon to Bourg d'Oisans via the Col du Lautaret and came across the Marmotte ride on its way down the Galibier to Alpe d'Huez.

Some of the bad descending had to be seen to be believed. "Line"? What's that?

OK guys, you've been over the Croix de Fer and the Galibier and you're tired, but that doesn't mean you can swerve all over the road, cut up other riders, make threepenny-bit turns or brake for no apparent reason on the straight bits (I overtook a lot of them simply by getting into a tuck and freewheeling!). And all this on roads open to the Great Motoring Unwashed. I took great pains not to follow any wheels and keep empty space in front of me.

I found it felt very dangerous and was very glad when I got out of the crowd at the end. It spoiled what should have been a glorious 30-km swoop.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 21, 2011, 11:24:51 am
I want to do the main road descent from Sestriere...

Join the queue.  :D
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Access Legal Guy on July 21, 2011, 12:00:50 pm
Nobody looks good whinging about a route they've known for a year.

Quite. I understand EBH had actually been out to recce the route of yesterday's run-in well in advance. Good for him.

Quote
*OK, I suppose sprinting will always have a large element of nerve vs skill.

Unless you're in a sprint with Abdoujaparov, when it becomes a bit of a lottery...

There was a story in the local papers recently about a man who suffered serious head injuries after coming off his bike in a race that was part of a "fun day out" organised by his employer. He tried to sue his employer for not carrying out adequate risk assessment (the angle was lack of recommendation to wear a helmet, but let's not go there) but was rejected on the grounds that he'd caused the crash himself by deliberately riding in front of a rival.

It makes you realise that when the top sprinters complain about rivals coming off their line, they do so for damn good reason. These riders know how to sprint safely and probably take far fewer risks than amateurs on fun days out organised by their employer.

d.

In this case the employers raised the cyclist coming off line as a contributory negligence factor. The guy was found to be at fault for the crash, but the case was not rejected in full. The employers were found to be one third at fault for allowing him to take part without a helmet.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 21, 2011, 12:13:02 pm
In this case the employers raised the cyclist coming off line as a contributory negligence factor. ... The employers were found to be one third at fault for allowing him to take part without a helmet.

I really don't want to get sidetracked by that issue, but it's an absurd ruling - surely he was 100% at fault for riding like a fucking idiot? Things like this and Honest John's story really put me off taking part in mass-participation events with inexperienced cyclists.

The pros descending a mountain at >60mph are probably a lot safer than most of us would be on the same descent at 40mph.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: fungus on July 21, 2011, 12:18:34 pm
Nobody looks good whinging about a route they've known for a year.

Quite. I understand EBH had actually been out to recce the route of yesterday's run-in well in advance. Good for him.

Clarification Request:
I'm sure Halfords Boy mentioned someone else doing a recce - think it was a GC contender - was it one of the Schlecks?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/descent-recon-pays-dividends-for-boasson-hagen

Originally posted by Spesh.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: mattc on July 21, 2011, 12:30:44 pm
EBH = Edvard Boasson Hagen
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 21, 2011, 01:13:29 pm
In this case the employers raised the cyclist coming off line as a contributory negligence factor. ... The employers were found to be one third at fault for allowing him to take part without a helmet.

I really don't want to get sidetracked by that issue, but it's an absurd ruling - surely he was 100% at fault for riding like a fucking idiot? Things like this and Honest John's story really put me off taking part in mass-participation events with inexperienced cyclists.

Audax and the Dun Run yes, sportives no. Inexperienced and unskilled riders riding competitively are dangerous to themselves and all the other riders. (Charideee rides no as well, but that's another story).

Quote

The pros descending a mountain at >60mph are probably a lot safer than most of us would be on the same descent at 40mph.

d.

Very true. Although having the whole road to yourself helps. Note also that they always leave plenty of room between each other, 5-10 bike lengths, and rarely overtake.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: RW on July 21, 2011, 01:21:22 pm
Are there any more extensive online highlights than what is on offer on ITV4? Some of the stage highlights seem to last just a few minutes and I can no sense of how the stage went at all.

ITV player has the 45 minute version - there's a link at the bottom of the page
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Tim on July 21, 2011, 02:50:03 pm
Has Andy just cut his umbilical cord to Frank?

PS descending - the behaviour of solos always seems staggeringly worse when you're cracking through on a tandem, lots of straightline speed and you've got to take clean lines through the corners. Now if only all those buggers gently ambling down hill (that'll be anyone on a solo - stop thinking you are quick downhill, if there's only one person on the bike you are not quick) would sort themselves out and stop weaving over the road and drifting in and out of the line on the corners I could stop chewing through brake blocks to counter your behaviour.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Porkins on July 21, 2011, 03:08:32 pm
Well, this is actually quite exciting. Looking forward to Andy beong reeled in on the next climb. Evans will have to do some work for a change.

wrt descending, I used to be the best in the world. Beat a ton of people down the Alpe d'Huez by six minutes once, decking a pedal in the process. 
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Doosh on July 21, 2011, 03:08:44 pm
It seems so, and they all let him go. Are they hoping he's going to kill himself and not have anything left for the final climb? Bit risky.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 21, 2011, 03:09:07 pm
Has Andy just cut his umbilical cord to Frank?

Planned move. I reckon it's been planned since the start of the tour; there's a reason why they didn't attack in the pyrennes!

re your descending - could you ever take on Terry in the descents?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Porkins on July 21, 2011, 03:13:18 pm
Terry who?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: peliroja on July 21, 2011, 03:18:34 pm
Contador appears to have switched teams!  ;D
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Porkins on July 21, 2011, 03:19:39 pm
Blatant cheating by the dirty Spics there. Bertie even said thank you to the Euskaltel car!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: peliroja on July 21, 2011, 03:26:01 pm
Contador and Sánchez have admitted they're working together in this Tour (http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/07/news/sanchez-contador-allies-on-and-off-the-road_185125).
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 21, 2011, 03:31:41 pm
Take back what I said about the Schlecks, this is genius (if he pulls it off)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 21, 2011, 03:35:09 pm
Take back what I said about the Schlecks, this is genius (if he pulls it off)

"If.."

He does have a descent to do shortly.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Porkins on July 21, 2011, 03:37:57 pm
I wish I was there. They're killing themselves today but they've still got to do the Telegraphe, the Galibier and the Alpe d'Huez tomorrow...and they seem to be clean.  A true fight to the death. I'd love to see Frandy, Bertie and Evans explode, with Voeckler finishing in yellow. But I suppose that's too much to hope for.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 21, 2011, 03:59:20 pm
I'd love to see Frandy, Bertie and Evans explode, with Voeckler finishing in yellow.

+1
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Karla on July 21, 2011, 04:13:52 pm
CN says there's 4:12 between Schleck and the peloton.  That's incredible!  Whoever wins this year's Tour, the lesser spotted Schleck must surely win the sandbagger extroadinairre award, possibly taking it off Armstrong 10 years after 'The Look'.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Porkins on July 21, 2011, 04:17:16 pm
Andy finally looks like he's in pain with over 7 very steep k to go. Excellent. And Tommy's being towed along nicely by Evans. Even more excellent.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Porkins on July 21, 2011, 04:27:11 pm
Bertie's bluffing I reckon.  He'll attack big time with 2k to go.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 21, 2011, 04:30:31 pm
It's too late for Bertie to do much, I think
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Porkins on July 21, 2011, 04:33:53 pm
He cracked at 1.9k. Shows how much I know.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Karla on July 21, 2011, 04:42:35 pm
Bertie's bluffing I reckon.  He'll attack big time with 2k to go.
I was wondering wtf Contador was going to do tomorrow, he must have been planning something big.

But no!  He's cracked!  We've just witnessed the moment when Alberto Contador lost the Tour de France.

[Gah, it didn't post first time because Porkins got in first]
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Tim on July 21, 2011, 04:44:13 pm
Well played by Tommy for another day of yellow.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 21, 2011, 04:47:41 pm
Anyhow, as I said:

GC:
1) Schleck (A)
2) Evans
3) Schleck (F)

Also, if someone could find the bit where I predicted that the Schlecks would blow things up in the Alps I'd appreciate it for bragging rights ;)

PS. notice how Frank had an easy ride today whilst everyone else basically died. Expect Frank to win tomorrow!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Karla on July 21, 2011, 04:51:57 pm
Anyhow, as I said:

GC:
1) Schleck (A)
2) Evans
3) Schleck (F)

Also, if someone could find the bit where I predicted that the Schlecks would blow things up in the Alps I'd appreciate it for bragging rights ;)

PS. notice how Frank had an easy ride today whilst everyone else basically died. Expect Frank to win tomorrow!

You kept the faith, you are indeed vindicated.  Well done, good and faithful servant.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Porkins on July 21, 2011, 04:55:11 pm
Hats off to the low budget wild card Europcars, who even had a domestique in the yellow jersey group.  Great to see some good honest Frenchmen up there after years of domination by big bucks foreign cheats.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 21, 2011, 05:01:58 pm
Ah, I wish you hadn't typed that Mr B because now I feel bad about bragging about this post:
I watched it again this evening and Cuddles was far closer to the limit on that climb than Andy. The only reason that the bunch came back to Andy was that he sat up to see where everyone had got to. If he has that form in the big climbs next week, I'm expecting to see him gain 1 or 2 minutes on the first big day of climbing.

Edit - could I nominate this attack as being being one of the best moments in recent history: the attack, the tactics and the general suffering!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 21, 2011, 05:02:53 pm
This race is mad, Ted.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Porkins on July 21, 2011, 05:10:25 pm
Epic day. Did Boardman just say it was the best day of Tour racing ever?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Salvatore on July 21, 2011, 05:19:25 pm
Cav finished outside the time limit, but so did lots of others. If it's more that 20% of the field (I think about 50% are outside the limit), the jury can keep them in.

Rojas finished inside the limit, so he won't be best pleased if Cav is allowed to continue.


edit: the grupetto is safe, and Cav stays in green but loses 20 points
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 21, 2011, 05:23:40 pm
Another very interesting race is that between Cunego and Basso. Partly because they've both been changing positions ever since they've been in the top 10 and also because they were at one time 'superhuman' and have now returned to more believable levels of performance. I have a nasty suspicion that Basso will take it from the pair (I've got Cunego in my fantasy TdF team).

edit - currently, they're on exactly the same time!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 21, 2011, 05:26:49 pm
Chapeau to Andy Schleck, he grabbed the race by the balls today.  8)
Chapeau to Evans, he limited his potential loss, and probably finished off Contador and Sanchez.  :thumbsup:
Chapeau to Voeckler, he's still hanging in there. I'll have what he's having...  :demon:

... If Voeckler's still in yellow on Friday morning, it's going to have to get ugly on the way to the Alpe, and it's going to have get ugly early.

Voeckler's still in yellow and neither Schleck has enough of a cushion over Evans yet.

The Telegraph is perhaps too early, but my guess is that Frank will attack on the Galibier, and Evans will have to do all the work again unless Europcar think there's a chance of keeping Voeckler in yellow for another day.

Edited to correct the order of the two cols.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 21, 2011, 05:32:04 pm
How well do you think that everyone will have recovered by the TT? I'm guessing Frank'll be off the front tomorrow and, as you point out Spesh, Cuddles will have to do all the work. Again.

I'd say that the race was now down to 4 men; the two Schlecks, Tommy V and Cuddles. Tommy V isn't going to do any work, the Schlecks aren't going to chase each other thus leaving Cuddles. Basso and Cunego are going to fight each other for 5th, so it's possible that Basso will pull hard to drop Cunego which might play into the hands of Cuddles, but who can say.

Further proof that this is the best tour since I've been interested in the sport!

Edit - I wonder how much time Vockler would have if the TV car hadn't taken out two of his breakaway companions?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 21, 2011, 05:34:05 pm
Cav finished outside the time limit, but so did lots of others. If it's more that 20% of the field (I think about 50% are outside the limit), the jury can keep them in.

Rojas finished inside the limit, so he won't be best pleased if Cav is allowed to continue.


edit: the grupetto is safe, and Cav stays in green but loses 20 points

I presume it's 20 points on offer at the top of the Alpe d'Huez, so if >20% are hors delais tomorrow, Cav drops to 5 points* behind Rojas, but should be confident of retaking the green jersey on the Champs Elysee on Sunday.

* I'm banking on the peloton being blown apart well before the intermediate sprint at Bourg d'Oisans, and neither Rojas nor Gilbert picking any points there.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 21, 2011, 06:29:41 pm
Gosh, that was terribly exciting. And I'm glad Voeckler managed to hold on. Allez, 'Ti-Blan!

Would Schleck (A) have done so well if he hadn't had Montfort to hold his hand down the nasty hill into Briancon? He still seemed to take some of the corners a bit too wide. I've descended that hill and it's not very technical.

Cav finished outside the time limit, but so did lots of others. If it's more that 20% of the field (I think about 50% are outside the limit), the jury can keep them in.

Rojas finished inside the limit, so he won't be best pleased if Cav is allowed to continue.


edit: the grupetto is safe, and Cav stays in green but loses 20 points

I presume it's 20 points on offer at the top of the Alpe d'Huez, so if >20% are hors delais tomorrow, Cav drops to 5 points* behind Rojas, but should be confident of retaking the green jersey on the Champs Elysee on Sunday.

* I'm banking on the peloton being blown apart well before the intermediate sprint at Bourg d'Oisans, and neither Rojas nor Gilbert picking any points there.

According to the TdF site it's:

1.CAVENDISH M. THR 300 Pts
2.ROJAS J. MOV 285 Pts
3.GILBERT P. OLO 230 Pts

which I don't think is where it was this morning.

But, since about 80 people including Linus Gerdemann, Sandy Casar, Sylvain Chavanel and Fabian Cancellara were all given the same time as Cav, it looks as though the time limit has gone by the board this time.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: kcass on July 21, 2011, 06:47:47 pm
From Cycingnews - The grupetto made it to the finish line within the time limit. Green jersey Mark Cavendish of HTC-Highroad was behind that group, and actually finished outside the time limit. The race jury allowed him to stay in the race but deducted 20 points from his total. He now leads Movistar's Joaquin Jose Rojas by only 15 points.

EDIT - Everyone that finished outside the time limit had 20 points deducted so there are now nearly 50 riders with totals ranging from -1 to -20 in the points competition.


Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 21, 2011, 07:37:11 pm
From Cycingnews - The grupetto made it to the finish line within the time limit. Green jersey Mark Cavendish of HTC-Highroad was behind that group, and actually finished outside the time limit. The race jury allowed him to stay in the race but deducted 20 points from his total. He now leads Movistar's Joaquin Jose Rojas by only 15 points.

EDIT - Everyone that finished outside the time limit had 20 points deducted so there are now nearly 50 riders with totals ranging from -1 to -20 in the points competition.

Oh dear. He'll have to make sure he gets all the points in Paris, then.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 21, 2011, 07:38:17 pm
Mark Cavendish of HTC-Highroad was behind that group, and actually finished outside the time limit.

Do you know who else was outside the limit?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: kcass on July 21, 2011, 08:05:43 pm

Do you know who else was outside the limit?

81    Arthur Vichot (Fra) FDJ    0:35:40    
82    Mickaël Delage (Fra) FDJ         
83    Bernhard Eisel (Aut) HTC-Highroad         
84    Linus Gerdemann (Ger) Leopard Trek         
85    Sandy Casar (Fra) FDJ         
86    Christian Knees (Ger) Sky Procycling         
87    Daniel Oss (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale         
88    Sebastian Lang (Ger) Omega Pharma-Lotto         
89    Rui Alberto Faria Da Costa (Por) Movistar Team         
90    Jurgen Roelandts (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto         
91    Sylvain Chavanel (Fra) Quickstep Cycling Team         
92    Sébastien Turgot (Fra) Team Europcar         
93    André Greipel (Ger) Omega Pharma-Lotto         
94    Manuel Quinziato (Ita) BMC Racing Team         
95    Andrey Amador Bakkazakova (CRc) Movistar Team         
96    Mark Cavendish (GBr) HTC-Highroad         
97    Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Leopard Trek         
98    Perrig Quemeneur (Fra) Team Europcar         
99    Andriy Grivko (Ukr) Pro Team Astana         
100    Grega Bole (Slo) Lampre - ISD         
101    Simon Gerrans (Aus) Sky Procycling         
102    Sébastien Hinault (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale         
103    Cyril Gautier (Fra) Team Europcar         
104    Marco Marcato (Ita) Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team         
105    Tony Gallopin (Fra) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne         
106    José Ivan Gutierrez Palacios (Spa) Movistar Team         
107    Tony Martin (Ger) HTC-Highroad         
108    Jérémie Galland (Fra) Saur - Sojasun         
109    Matthew Harley Goss (Aus) HTC-Highroad         
110    Jimmy Engoulvent (Fra) Saur - Sojasun         
111    Mark Renshaw (Aus) HTC-Highroad         
112    Tejay Van Garderen (USA) HTC-Highroad         
113    Grischa Niermann (Ger) Rabobank Cycling Team         
114    Alessandro Petacchi (Ita) Lampre - ISD         
115    Denys Kostyuk (Ukr) Lampre - ISD         
116    Danilo Hondo (Ger) Lampre - ISD         
117    Blel Kadri (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale         
118    David Millar (GBr) Team Garmin-Cervelo         
119    Alessandro Vanotti (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale         
120    Adriano Malori (Ita) Lampre - ISD         
121    Alan Perez Lezaun (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi         
122    Paolo Longo Borghini (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale         
123    Juan Antonio Flecha Giannoni (Spa) Sky Procycling         
124    Thor Hushovd (Nor) Team Garmin-Cervelo         
125    Benjamin Noval Gonzalez (Spa) Saxo Bank Sungard         
126    Luis Leon Sanchez Gil (Spa) Rabobank Cycling Team         
127    Maciej Paterski (Pol) Liquigas-Cannondale         
128    Addy Engels (Ned) Quickstep Cycling Team         
129    Anthony Delaplace (Fra) Saur - Sojasun         
130    Jérôme Pineau (Fra) Quickstep Cycling Team         
131    Kristijan Koren (Slo) Liquigas-Cannondale         
132    Bauke Mollema (Ned) Rabobank Cycling Team         
133    Philippe Gilbert (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto         
134    Tomas Vaitkus (Ltu) Pro Team Astana         
135    Fabio Sabatini (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale         
136    Björn Leukemans (Bel) Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team         
137    Jérémy Roy (Fra) FDJ         
138    Romain Zingle (Bel) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne         
139    Lars Ytting Bak (Den) HTC-Highroad         
140    Jakob Fuglsang (Den) Leopard Trek         
141    Nicki Sörensen (Den) Saxo Bank Sungard         
142    Julien El Fares (Fra) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne         
143    Edvald Boasson Hagen (Nor) Sky Procycling         
144    Francisco José Ventoso Alberdi (Spa) Movistar Team         
145    Tristan Valentin (Fra) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne         
146    Samuel Dumoulin (Fra) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne         
147    Mikhail Ignatyev (Rus) Katusha Team         
148    Arnaud Coyot (Fra) Saur - Sojasun         
149    Gerald Ciolek (Ger) Quickstep Cycling Team         
150    Ben Swift (GBr) Sky Procycling         
151    Brian Vandborg (Den) Saxo Bank Sungard         
152    Leonardo Fabio Duque (Col) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne         
153    Sébastien Minard (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale         
154    Anthony Roux (Fra) FDJ         
155    Tyler Farrar (USA) Team Garmin-Cervelo         
156    Danny Pate (USA) HTC-Highroad         
157    Vincent Jerome (Fra) Team Europcar         
158    Mickaël Buffaz (Fra) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne         
159    Maciej Bodnar (Pol) Liquigas-Cannondale         
160    Matteo Tosatto (Ita) Saxo Bank Sungard         
161    Jonathan Hivert (Fra) Saur - Sojasun         
162    Yohann Gene (Fra) Team Europcar         
163    Dmitriy Muravyev (Kaz) Team RadioShack         
164    Niki Terpstra (Ned) Quickstep Cycling Team         
165    Marcus Burghardt (Ger) BMC Racing Team         
166    Borut Bozic (Slo) Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team         
167    Laurent Mangel (Fra) Saur - Sojasun         
168    Marcel Sieberg (Ger) Omega Pharma-Lotto

!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Mrs Pingu on July 21, 2011, 08:46:44 pm
My word, Tommy Voeckler turned himself inside out at the top, what a star!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Chris S on July 21, 2011, 08:51:41 pm
Tour cycling is right up there with Test Cricket and the World Paint Drying1 Championships when it comes to spectator sports - but that was excellent TV viewing  :thumbsup:.

Top work to the Yellow Jersey for hanging on to it!

------------------
1 I should know - I used to have a job watching paint dry.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Steve Kish on July 21, 2011, 09:07:17 pm
Tommy Voeckler is the new Rocky Balboa! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Domestique on July 21, 2011, 09:25:43 pm
Please do not let the Aussie win  :hand:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: David Martin on July 21, 2011, 09:49:33 pm
Brilliantly played by Leopard Trek today in providing a babysitter for Andy down the hill. His descending before he caught Monfort was nailbitingly bad...

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 21, 2011, 11:19:51 pm

Do you know who else was outside the limit?

81    Arthur Vichot (Fra) FDJ    0:35:40    
82    Mickaël Delage (Fra) FDJ         
83    Bernhard Eisel (Aut) HTC-Highroad         
84    Linus <snip>Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team         
167    Laurent Mangel (Fra) Saur - Sojasun         
168    Marcel Sieberg (Ger) Omega Pharma-Lotto

!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hmmmm.... perhaps they need to redefine the time limits.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rainmaker on July 21, 2011, 11:23:51 pm
Posted by: gonzo
« on: Today at 05:32:04 PM[
I wonder how much time Vockler would have if the TV car hadn't taken out two of his breakaway companions?

The more I think about this, the more I think that the taking out of Flecher and Hoogerland possibly robbed Voeckler of a chance of winning this tour.   Both of them are riders who would have ridden their socks off in that break, but the result of the incident was that Voeckler was left with two riders whose contribution to the break was minimal. 
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: arvid on July 21, 2011, 11:29:44 pm
Posted by: gonzo
« on: Today at 05:32:04 PM[
I wonder how much time Vockler would have if the TV car hadn't taken out two of his breakaway companions?

The more I think about this, the more I think that the taking out of Flecher and Hoogerland possibly robbed Voeckler of a chance of winning this tour.   Both of them are riders who would have ridden their socks off in that break, but the result of the incident was that Voeckler was left with two riders whose contribution to the break was minimal.

I doubt it. By the time the accident happened it was clear that they would stay away from the peloton. The only one that would benefit from making the gap as big as possible was Voeckler. Both Flecha and Hoogerland would've kept their work to a minimum, to be able to run off or win the sprint.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 22, 2011, 05:52:05 am
One thing's for certain - Voeckler's never going to be allowed to join an early break again, at least not without a fight
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Justin(e) on July 22, 2011, 08:41:33 am

I doubt it. By the time the accident happened it was clear that they would stay away from the peloton. The only one that would benefit from making the gap as big as possible was Voeckler. Both Flecha and Hoogerland would've kept their work to a minimum, to be able to run off or win the sprint.

What if???  If only ...

There is also the fact that Sparticus called a truce behind.  There is no way Tommy would have got the jersey AT ALL if there was not a crash behind.  He got lucky.

Only Andy and Cuddly 'deserve' the final yellow.

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 22, 2011, 08:44:52 am
Of course having Voeckler as the caretaker of the yellow has served a purpose for the other contenders, but they'll be wanting it back now.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 22, 2011, 08:48:58 am
I was impressed that Evans did not panic.  He just stuck to his plan and then rode it his way.  He gradually clawed back some time but hopefully not killing his legs in the process.  Respect to Mr Evans.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Somnolent on July 22, 2011, 09:05:19 am
Of course having Voeckler as the caretaker of the yellow has served a purpose for the other contenders, but they'll be wanting it back now.

Quite so .... but I suspect they rather thought they'd have had it back before now.
Chapeau Thomas !
Title: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 22, 2011, 09:18:21 am
Chapeau to Evans, he limited his potential loss, and probably finished off Contador and Sanchez.  :thumbsup:

Well, have to admit I'm surprised at the explosion of Sanchez. Thought he was looking very strong. And so much for Contador looking like he was finding some form...

Quote
Voeckler's still in yellow and neither Schleck has enough of a cushion over Evans yet.

Aye. Chapeau to Schleck, but if he ends up losing this Tour by seconds, he'll regret not pushing harder on Luz Ardiden - if indeed he was able to...

So, Frank's turn to attack today?

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: lord hereford on July 22, 2011, 09:21:53 am
I've got a lot of respect for Pierre Rolland, he was the only team mate of any of the GC riders who was able to stay the distance on the Galibier. He has looked comfortable on a number of the big climbs over the last few stages. Good old Tommy, I've been saying each morning "If he stays in yellow today, I'll show my arse in Woolies window" and every day, there he is, still in yellow.
How he got there is not really relevant now, he's doing the ride of his life each day to keep the damn thing. However, if he stays in yellow after today I really will have to find a cheap stationary, music and toy retailer to reveal my buttocks......
I really don't know what will happen next on today's stage, I've given up predicting now, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the fun.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 22, 2011, 09:23:07 am
I am not a fan of his annoying voice and he has a face for radio, but I NOW want Cadel Evans to win.  He deserves to win after all those years of trying and not getting it right, of crashing of having others that are 'prepared' better in front of him.  No, this year the Aussie battler has to win.
Title: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 22, 2011, 09:27:17 am
I was impressed that Evans did not panic.  He just stuck to his plan and then rode it his way.  He gradually clawed back some time but hopefully not killing his legs in the process.  Respect to Mr Evans.

Suspect that effort will have hurt Cadel. Looks like gonzo called it perfectly (hat-tip) - Frank will be fresh after keeping quiet yesterday so probably his turn to attack today while Andy just marks Cadel? Cadel probably needs someone like Basso or Cunego - or maybe even Sanchez or Contador - to attack the Schlecks and try to disrupt their tactics.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 22, 2011, 09:29:33 am
I want Tommy to win now. It would be brilliant and France would explode.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: JT on July 22, 2011, 09:36:28 am
Andrew Schelck's attack yesterday was incredible. Reminded me of Floyd Landis.  ;)

Evans was brilliant. Tactically he was very astute letting the younger Schleck go up the road rather than get into a situation where both Schlecks were alternating attacks. It's a shame though that no one was willing to help him reel in Schleck, particularly Europcar.

Voekler was obviously just hanging on and I can't see him being able to do it again athough I'd love to be proved wrong.

Today, they go over the Galibier again (the hard way this time) and then finish on Alpe d'Huez. I predict that Frank Schleck will win on Alpe d'Huez and may even take the MJ. I don't think Alpe d'Huez will suit Evans at all: the 21 hairpins will constantly disrupt his rhythm. Hopefully he'll be able to minimise his losses and claw enough back in Saturday's TT to win the Tour.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Salvatore on July 22, 2011, 09:43:52 am
I think today could be a bigger challenge for Cav than yesterday. It'll be another struggle to make the time limit.

Even if he finishes in a big group outside the time limit, the 20% rule only gives the jury the discretion to give the hors delais riders another chance. They are not obliged to and they might just be tempted to exclude them for finishing outside the cut, especially as it would be the second day in a row. Probably not if it was 50% of the field like yesterday, but if it's 'only' 20% ...

20% rule etc (http://twitpic.com/5tk0yi) from inrng
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: JT on July 22, 2011, 09:49:50 am
I think today could be a bigger challenge for Cav than yesterday. It'll be another struggle to make the time limit.

Even if he finishes in a big group outside the time limit, the 20% rule only gives the jury the discretion to give the hors delais riders another chance. They are not obliged to and they might just be tempted to exclude them for finishing outside the cut, especially as it would be the second day in a row. Probably not if it was 50% of the field like yesterday, but if it's 'only' 20% ...

20% rule etc (http://twitpic.com/5tk0yi) from inrng

I'm not absolutely certain about this and you could be spot on but I suspect that it will be (slightly) easier today because he (and the rest of the grupetto) know that they can recover in tomorrow's TT.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: bobb on July 22, 2011, 10:07:39 am
All the rules in Le Tour seem to be made up as they go along. They have things like the 20% rule then just bend or break them. So it would seem the rules aren't worth the paper they're written on.

I think docking them all 20 points was the fairest thing to do in the situation though. The only other options being booting them all out or doing nothing.

Hopefully Cav will make it today (the stage is considerably shorter than yesterday) and not be affected by it all come Paris...
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Martin on July 22, 2011, 10:30:17 am
the "hors delai" rule seems to be there to show that it's no good just winning sprints you have to be able to mix it up the hills too. But like all Tour rules it seems to change from day to day.

I imagine that the 88 riders yesterday prolly included a few entire teams, the organisers would look a bit daft having to take all their hoardings down on Sunday  ;)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: onb on July 22, 2011, 10:35:35 am
If there is a very small time gap after the TT will they race on sunday or is sunday just a procession?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: bobb on July 22, 2011, 10:36:18 am
Wasn't there a situation a few years ago when a break effectively eliminated the entire field including the yellow jersey?! Funnily enough they let them all stay in...
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Redlight on July 22, 2011, 10:39:01 am
It was in the mid '90s, I think. I don't think the yellow was in the late arrivals but it was something like 75% of the field, inclusing all the star sprinters, and was relatively early in the race, so the rule was 'adjusted'. 
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 22, 2011, 10:53:04 am
Andrew Schelck's attack yesterday was incredible. Reminded me of Floyd Landis.  ;)

Quote
@carltonreid (http://twitter.com/#!/carltonreid/status/94080978292703232) If Landis was on a "goddamn Harley" on stage 17 of the TdF in 2006, what motorbike was A Schleck on today, Mr Pound?

Maybe he borrowed Cancellara's motorbike?

Quote
Voekler was obviously just hanging on and I can't see him being able to do it again athough I'd love to be proved wrong.

+1

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 22, 2011, 10:54:48 am
Hypothetically, if the winner of a stage like yesterday's was later found to be doping, since the cut-off time is based on the winner's finishing time, would the riders who finished after the cut-off time have a case for having their points reinstated?

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: JT on July 22, 2011, 10:57:30 am
Hypothetically, if the winner of a stage like yesterday's was later found to be doping, since the cut-off time is based on the winner's finishing time, would the riders who finished after the cut-off time have a case for having their points reinstated?

d.

Morally or legally?

Ideally, the cut-off time should take into account the difficulty of the stage. It's obviously not working properly when over half the field is outside the cutoff.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 22, 2011, 11:03:19 am
Morally or legally?

Both, I suppose, but I was thinking legally.

Suppose Cav loses the green jersey by a handful of points, but it turns out the reason for him being docked those points was that the stage winner cheated... well, I'd like to hear what he had to say about that!

I still think he's going to win green by virtue of winning Sunday's stage, and I'm not saying I think Andy is doping, just pondering a hypothetical situation.

Quote
Ideally, the cut-off time should take into account the difficulty of the stage. It's obviously not working properly when over half the field is outside the cutoff.

Quite. They weren't even very much outside the limit, just a few minutes. They have the discretion to waive the time limit and yesterday is a prime example of when they should have exercised that discretion.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 22, 2011, 11:08:15 am
Hopefully Cav will make it today (the stage is considerably shorter than yesterday) and not be affected by it all come Paris...

A shorter stage means the leaders will be riding faster, right? And since the cutoff time is still based on the same percentage of the winner's time, it may well be even harder to finish inside the limit today...

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Mr Larrington on July 22, 2011, 11:21:54 am
Voeckler owes Cuddles many Big Drinks for that performance, not to mention even more Big Drinks to Rolland, who's stuck with him ever since he took the MJ.  I think it's highly unlikely that he'll stay in yellow after today but I hope like hell he manages to pull off a miracle.  Unless Clentador was playing a very dangerous game of bluff yesterday he's surely out of contention.  Frank to win today.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Salvatore on July 22, 2011, 11:24:00 am
Hypothetically, if the winner of a stage like yesterday's was later found to be doping, since the cut-off time is based on the winner's finishing time, would the riders who finished after the cut-off time have a case for having their points reinstated?

d.

Morally or legally?

Ideally, the cut-off time should take into account the difficulty of the stage. It's obviously not working properly when over half the field is outside the cutoff.

I wonder if the thought running through the minds of some of yesterday's big group was: "If the group is as big as this, we can take our time, because they wouldn't dare kick us all out."

Reinstating them was a bit unfair on such as Rojas, who actually made the effort to finish inside the official cut. I can remember a similar thing a few years ago when Zabel bust a gut to get inside the time limit, only for a group which finished outside the cut-off to be reinstated. He made his feelings quite clear.

Quote
A shorter stage means the leaders will be riding faster, right? And since the cutoff time is still based on the same percentage of the winner's time, it may well be even harder to finish inside the limit today...

The percentage today is more relaxed than yesterday. For a 30kph average speed by the stage winner, yesterday's cut-off would have been winner's time + 6%. For the same speed today, it would be winner's time plus 9%. I think they'll need it.

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: arvid on July 22, 2011, 11:24:51 am
Ideally, the cut-off time should take into account the difficulty of the stage. It's obviously not working properly when over half the field is outside the cutoff.

It does, see http://www.letour.fr/2011/TDF/COURSE/docs/reglement.pdf (the second half is in English)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 22, 2011, 11:29:04 am
I'll wait for the dope testing to finish before congratulating the winner.  That could take a couple of years, given recent history.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Karla on July 22, 2011, 11:29:51 am
Frank to win today.

i.e. Unless Clentador is an even better sandbagger than Schlandy. 
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 22, 2011, 11:42:43 am
Frank to win today.

i.e. Unless Clentador is an even better sandbagger than Schlandy.

You can stick a fork in Contador, he was done yesterday. If you have good condition, you don't bluff by yoy-yoing out the back of the group, and you certainly don't deliberate lose 30 seconds on a stage in order to lull your opponents into a false sense of security for the one. It's way too risky.

If you're good, you bluff by pretending that you are hanging on on the group by the skin of your teeth, then you hit them when they least expect it, rather like the way Armstrong got the drop on his rivals one year.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 22, 2011, 12:30:49 pm
The percentage today is more relaxed than yesterday. For a 30kph average speed by the stage winner, yesterday's cut-off would have been winner's time + 6%. For the same speed today, it would be winner's time plus 9%. I think they'll need it.

I've just done some maths and if (as reported) the Cav group finished only two minutes outside the time limit, they must have been given the +9% cutoff...

A.Schleck = 6h 07m 56s, +9% = 6h 41m 03s

Cav group = 6h 43m 36s
Rojas group = 6h 39m 13s

Based on a +6% cutoff, Rojas would have been outside the time limit too - by nine minutes.

I suspect they only enforced the rule to make the green jersey competition look like a contest.  ;)

No need, though - Cav would want to win in Paris even if he'd already got the green jersey mathematically out of reach of his rivals.

By the way, I wouldn't call under seven hours for >200km of mountainous terrain "taking their time"! My PB for a flat 200 is about two hours more than Cav took yesterday.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 22, 2011, 12:50:44 pm
"If he stays in yellow today, I'll show my arse in Woolies window"

My local Woolies is now half Superdrug and half Waitrose.

Best of luck with the mooning.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 22, 2011, 12:55:33 pm
Andrew Schelck's attack yesterday was incredible. Reminded me of Floyd Landis.  ;)

Not really.

The clever bit was getting Montfort ahead to wait and guide Schleck (A) down to Briancon so that he didn't lose the time he'd gained, on the descent. The rest of the peloton didn't expect that - perhaps they were banking on him doing his usual threepenny-bit-turn performance on the way down.

Hence Schleck (A) could get to the Lautaret ahead of them and hold most of his advantage on the climb. Note that Cuddles and Ti-Blan (but not Beefeater Bertie) were catching him on the way up the Galibier - most unFloyd.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 22, 2011, 12:57:17 pm
I think today could be a bigger challenge for Cav than yesterday. It'll be another struggle to make the time limit.

There is marginally less climbing today but, yes, I'm worried for the lad.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 22, 2011, 12:59:47 pm
Hypothetically, if the winner of a stage like yesterday's was later found to be doping, since the cut-off time is based on the winner's finishing time, would the riders who finished after the cut-off time have a case for having their points reinstated?

d.

Morally or legally?

Ideally, the cut-off time should take into account the difficulty of the stage. It's obviously not working properly when over half the field is outside the cutoff.

Quite. I reckon the cut-off times are somewhat optimistic bearing in mind every team includes sprinters and general Big Lads as well as small goat-like creatures.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Mr Larrington on July 22, 2011, 01:01:44 pm
Have any of today's papers used the headline "Six Mauled In Leopard Attack"?

If not, they should have.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: JT on July 22, 2011, 01:04:31 pm
After checking the race rules/regulations (linked above - thanks  :thumbsup: ), the cutoff time is related to the stage difficulty and today's stage is classed as more difficult than yesterday so there's a longer cutoff.

So with that, the "rest day" tomorrow, and the very real prospect of winning the green jersey, I'd expect young Cav to be on time this afternoon.  :D


Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 22, 2011, 01:05:30 pm
Have any of today's papers used the headline "Six Mauled In Leopard Attack"?

If not, they should have.

But shirley only Bertie and Sanchez could be described as "mauled". Cuddles and Ti-Blan just had a couple of scratches that were healing by the time they'd finished.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 22, 2011, 01:06:55 pm
After checking the race rules/regulations (linked above - thanks  :thumbsup: ), the cutoff time is related to the stage difficulty and today's stage is classed as more difficult than yesterday so there's a longer cutoff.

Shorter ride, and two mountains rather than three? Sounds marginally less painful to me.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 22, 2011, 01:15:28 pm
I've just had a look at the rules myself and JT's right - they use a different coefficient for shorter stages. And I now understand where Salvatore got the 6% figure from...

So, as Salvatore said, yesterday's stage started with a cutoff of +6% based on the winner averaging 30km/h, but because Andy rode an average 32-33km/h, that increases to 9%.

Today's stage starts with a cutoff of +9% based on a winning time of 30km/h. If Frank won today riding at an average of 33-34km/h, the cutoff would be +13%

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 22, 2011, 01:23:38 pm
Shorter ride, and two mountains rather than three? Sounds marginally less painful to me.

The distinction is "étapes de grandes difficultés" and "étapes courtes de grandes difficultés" - today and stage 13 (Pau-Lourdes) are the latter. Stages 12, 14, 17 & 18 are the former.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Salvatore on July 22, 2011, 02:02:38 pm
Bertie attacks with 92 km to go. I think I'll be glued to this for next 3 hours or so.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Riggers on July 22, 2011, 02:07:39 pm
You lucky chap. I can only view the 'live' text version on the Eurosport website. It's in Contador and Sanchez's interest to work more closely together today, though I don't see them 'besting' the Schlecks.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 22, 2011, 02:12:40 pm
This is astonishing. I'm going to have to get my work done quickly so I can give this my full attention.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Doosh on July 22, 2011, 02:14:22 pm
You lucky chap. I can only view the 'live' text version on the Eurosport website. It's in Contador and Sanchez's interest to work more closely together today, though I don't see them 'besting' the Schlecks.

I don't think Sanchez has gone with them, has he?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Riggers on July 22, 2011, 02:16:23 pm
I don't know. My comments were speculation.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: JT on July 22, 2011, 02:16:42 pm
This is astonishing. I'm going to have to get my work done quickly so I can give this my full attention.

d.

Normally I avoid any news of the stage and wait and watch the ITV highlights. Not today.
I'll keep an eye on the Eurosport text feed while I work and then watch their live prog on Sky+ tonight.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Doosh on July 22, 2011, 02:18:36 pm
Looks like Contador had steak for tea last night...
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: David Martin on July 22, 2011, 02:19:56 pm
Oh No.. Cuddles has bike problems and has to change his bike. Now off the back of the lead group and has to ride a blinder if he has to get back on..
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: jogler on July 22, 2011, 02:21:58 pm
It's really kicked off :thumbsup:
there'll be no work done in jogler's office this afternoon ;D
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 22, 2011, 02:27:23 pm
The Telegraph is perhaps too early

You can stick a fork in Contador, he was done yesterday.

Shows how much I know...   ;D

... If Voeckler's still in yellow on Friday morning, it's going to have to get ugly on the way to the Alpe, and it's going to have get ugly early.

At least I got one prediction about today right, though I must say that the prophet margin on this Tour has been quite large.   ;)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 22, 2011, 02:28:07 pm
It's really kicked off :thumbsup:
there'll be no work done in jogler's office this afternoon ;D

I suspect productivity nationwide has gone south today.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Riggers on July 22, 2011, 02:36:08 pm
I'm sitting here watching the refresh part of Europsort Live text feed wind down, before it refreshes… 34"… 34" … 33". "Come on, hurry up!!!"
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: jogler on July 22, 2011, 02:40:23 pm
It's really kicked off :thumbsup:
there'll be no work done in jogler's office this afternoon ;D

I suspect productivity nationwide has gone south today.

to tell the truth I planned* today's "must do" stuff so that today would be a POET's day to allow the time to watch the best Tour I can remember.

*I was at my desk at 0600 this morning & the "must do" was done at 10 o'clock.ftw
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 22, 2011, 02:44:39 pm
Does any FM radio station carry live coverage ? I will be in the car for 6 hours shortly :(
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: IanDG on July 22, 2011, 03:04:55 pm
It's really kicked off :thumbsup:
there'll be no work done in jogler's office this afternoon ;D

I suspect productivity nationwide has gone south today.

to tell the truth I planned* today's "must do" stuff so that today would be a POET's day to allow the time to watch the best Tour I can remember.

*I was at my desk at 0600 this morning & the "must do" was done at 10 o'clock.ftw

I was called out to carry out blood tests in the early hours of the morning, so I've got 'compensatory rest' - stuck infront of the tube!

Excellent start - bad luck to Cadel, what a bummer of a moment for mechanical trouble :(
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 22, 2011, 03:15:03 pm
Allez Cadel Allez
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: mike on July 22, 2011, 03:17:37 pm
Allez Cadel Allez

+1 for that.  Please let contador crack..
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: IanDG on July 22, 2011, 03:19:01 pm
Wasn't it last year that most were bemoaning Contador for following an attack and not waiting for Schleck when his chain slipped - Just as mechanical trouble may have cost Schleck the tour last year, could mechanical trouble be Evan's downfall this year?

Go Evan's!!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 22, 2011, 03:44:40 pm
Wasn't it last year that most were bemoaning Contador for following an attack and not waiting for Schleck when his chain slipped - Just as mechanical trouble may have cost Schleck the tour last year, could mechanical trouble be Evan's downfall this year?

Nope, he's closed most of the gap towards the top of the Galibier and is now catching them on the descent. Chapeau. Go Cuddles!

I'm just wondering who's going to be first to crack. Can't believe they can keep this pace up all the way. Frank may yet win the stage - he's done less work than any of the other leading riders yesterday and today so far...

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 22, 2011, 03:46:14 pm
Yeah but Cadel is in touch with his inner mongrel.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: IanDG on July 22, 2011, 04:00:34 pm
Nice one Cadel - Go Evans  :thumbsup:

(unfortunately the constant interruption with adverts is getting to me - I keep breaking out with 'Go Cadel, Go Cadel' to the tune of the annoying 'Go Compare' advert  ;D
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Porkins on July 22, 2011, 04:05:10 pm
Gor blimey, I've only been watching ten minutes and there must have been 20 moves. So what's the state of play? Cadel is already half-knackered, Voeckler's got nothing in the tank, Bertie seems to have had a transfusion last night. Frank's done no work for ages. Who's capable of attacking on the Alpe?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: JJ on July 22, 2011, 04:43:25 pm
Has Rolland been given the all-clear to forget about looking after Voeckler and go looking for a maillot blanc?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: David Martin on July 22, 2011, 04:50:18 pm
Fantatic ride by Rolland
Excellent ride by Evans too.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 22, 2011, 04:55:33 pm
Fantastic to watch.  Best I can remember.  I even saw a few fans tackled this year and thrown back into the crowd.  ;D
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 22, 2011, 05:06:03 pm
That was amazing. A proper bike race.

At last a Frenchman has won something. Sad that Voeckler cracked, though. What was that wobbly he was throwing just before the Galibier tunnel?

The fans on Alpe d'Huez seemed even more barking than usual.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: David Martin on July 22, 2011, 05:06:53 pm
And now we wait to see if Cav will make it to the top in time.

It is going to be close tomorrow. I'd put money on evans to take 57" out of Andy Schleck when there is a yellow jersey up for grabs.

..d
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: peliroja on July 22, 2011, 05:12:15 pm
France 2 saying time limit is 25 mins 9 seconds and apparently Cav was 23 minutes behind at the bottom of Alpe d'Huez...
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Riggers on July 22, 2011, 05:14:03 pm
I missed the last few Kms due to work getting in the way, and I'm deliberately not looking at people's comments so as not to spoil m'watching the highlights at 7!!!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 22, 2011, 05:16:54 pm
France 2 saying time limit is 25 mins 9 seconds and apparently Cav was 23 minutes behind at the bottom of Alpe d'Huez...

Gilbert has made it, but he's too far behind in the points to worry about. No sign that Rojas has finished yet...
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 22, 2011, 05:22:05 pm
Cav and Rojas finished in a big group together, 17 seconds outside the time limit. Cav will arrive in Paris in green! Hurrah!

(Assuming they don't throw the ~60 riders in that group out...) Edit: He's just been presented the green jersey.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 22, 2011, 05:24:50 pm
The fans on Alpe d'Huez seemed even more barking than usual.

Did you see the chap in medical get-up bothering Contador? He did not like that!  ;D

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 22, 2011, 05:25:32 pm
France 2 saying time limit is 25 mins 9 seconds and apparently Cav was 23 minutes behind at the bottom of Alpe d'Huez...

Gilbert has made it, but he's too far behind in the points to worry about. No sign that Rojas has finished yet...

Rojas and Cav finished a few seconds outside the limit, in a big group with Hushovd and Greipel, to name but a few out of about 50. No news on the TdF site about elimination/points-docking.

Edit ^^^ Wot citoyen said.

(I'm watching on video with 20mins time-delay.)

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: David Martin on July 22, 2011, 05:26:30 pm
Phew. I cannow get on with life. Money on Cuddles for the yellow tomorrow.

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 22, 2011, 05:28:38 pm
Cav and Rojas finished in a big group together, 17 seconds outside the time limit. Cav will arrive in Paris in green! Hurrah!

(Assuming they don't throw the ~60 riders in that group out...) Edit: He's just been presented the green jersey.

d.


Cav's just been presented with the green jersey, and it doesn't look as though points have been docked (due to the closeness of missing the cut?) so the status quo is preserved until Sunday. The grupetto was 85-167th position, which is definitely >20% of the start list.

EDIT - points were deducted (Letour.com a bit tardy with the update), but no biggie, Cav still has a cushion over Rojas.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 22, 2011, 05:28:38 pm
The fans on Alpe d'Huez seemed even more barking than usual.

Did you see the chap in medical get-up bothering Contador? He did not like that!  ;D

d.

Particularly nasty. These guys are trying to make a living when they're riding up the Alpe.

But what bothers me more is the possibility of some pisshead elbowing a leading rider off the piste (as someone did to Guiseppe Guerini a few years ago).

I was really pissed off to see that some of the "fans" were more interested in getting their ugly mugs onto TV than encouraging/discouraging/barracking the riders.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 22, 2011, 05:36:28 pm
That was amazing. A proper bike race.

At last a Frenchman has won something. Sad that Voeckler cracked, though. What was that wobbly he was throwing just before the Galibier tunnel?

Perhaps he'd just realised that trying to bridge the gap to the Contador group wasn't the best thing to have done. Once the race hit the Alpe, Voeckler paid for expending so much energy on the Galibier.

By way of a contrast, Evans didn't panic, he steadily worked his way back to the lead group over the course of the stage, just like yesterday.

Quote
The fans on Alpe d'Huez seemed even more barking than usual.

And that's saying something...  :o
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 22, 2011, 05:42:42 pm
Particularly nasty. These guys are trying to make a living when they're riding up the Alpe.

Aye. It's funny up to a point, but it does make you think there ought to be stricter crowd control on the mountains.

Just hope it doesn't take an "incident" to make the organisers do something about it... Given how unpopular Contador is among certain sections of the crowd, it's amazing no-one has tried anything on him already.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 22, 2011, 05:50:34 pm
Particularly nasty. These guys are trying to make a living when they're riding up the Alpe.

Aye. It's funny up to a point, but it does make you think there ought to be stricter crowd control on the mountains.

They already use 4km of barriers up there! They could fence off the whole 13km, but there'd be a balance to be struck between tradition (the TdF is free to watch and coming to a road near you), advertising/PR (yes, we want you to watch and see all the nice logos) and safety.

Quote

Just hope it doesn't take an "incident" to make the organisers do something about it... Given how unpopular Contador is among certain sections of the crowd, it's amazing no one has tried anything on him already.

d.

The worst I've seen yet was the guy dangling a steak on a stick in front of Bertie on the Zoncalan. And he does seem to be a bit more popular now after the alleged knee trouble and his patchy performance.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Justin(e) on July 22, 2011, 05:59:06 pm
Wow, the last couple of days racing have been magnificent.

C'mon Cadel.

I think his guts and determinantion have been admirable this time.  The 'squeaky voiced one' has showed real maturity in the way that he has raced this year.

Another night glued to the tele tomorrow.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 22, 2011, 06:31:27 pm
I quite liked the comment that we should have this course every year!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: jogler on July 22, 2011, 06:44:42 pm
I quite liked the comment that we should have this course every year!

It's not likely but I hope they do not re-introduce the prologue time trial.It's the lack of this feature which set the Tour up to be a race this year instead of a procession as in recent years
Title: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 22, 2011, 07:13:52 pm
Wiggo would have won this Tour, you know.

d.
Title: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 22, 2011, 07:17:10 pm
I quite liked the comment that we should have this course every year!

It's not likely but I hope they do not re-introduce the prologue time trial.It's the lack of this feature which set the Tour up to be a race this year instead of a procession as in recent years

Not sure a short prologue would have made as much difference as Contador losing all that time on the first stage. Would have been a very different race if that hadn't happened. And if Wiggo hadn't crashed out...

So many variables to consider.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Martin on July 22, 2011, 08:51:30 pm
Cav and Rojas finished in a big group together, 17 seconds outside the time limit. Cav will arrive in Paris in green!

assuming no sprints tomorrow how many points are up for grabs on Sunday?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Karla on July 22, 2011, 08:58:35 pm
As this has become decidedly topical, here are Schlandy and Cuddles' previous TdF ITT times.

Year                           2010          2009          2008          2007
ITT distance (km)     52              40.5           53              55.5
Cadel Evans              01:11:54   00:49:45   01:05:55   01:03:35
Andy Schleck            01:07:10   00:50:15   01:07:52   --

Cuddles' lead            -0:4:44         0:0:30    00:01:57   --

I can't remember what happened to Cuddles last year, I wasn't paying attention to him at the time.  He'll surely put in a strong ride tomorrow, but so will Mr Schleck.  The latter did a storming last year, but what's to say he won't do that again?  I'm sticking with Schleck for this one.

[EDIT: No, no points for a TT!  Cav will be wearing the green jersey as he enters Paris.  As a flat stage, there are the normal 20 then 40 points for intermediate sprint (yes there is one) and the finish.]
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Bledlow on July 22, 2011, 09:08:02 pm
That was amazing. A proper bike race.

At last a Frenchman has won something. Sad that Voeckler cracked, though.
+1

Rolland said at the finish that Voeckler had said something like "Forget me, I'm done. Go for it." Nice touch, & it motivated Rolland, as he felt he had to win, to justify it.

Yet another excellent stage in a superb race. The route designers have done a tremendous job, & the cyclists have made the most of it.
Title: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 22, 2011, 09:17:01 pm
Don't forget Cuddles has done this TT course already in the Dauphiné, which should work to his advantage.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Steve Kish on July 22, 2011, 09:58:02 pm
I recon Cuddles will do it but I'm rooting for ' Heart of a Lion' Tommy V to pull one out of the bag and kick one Schleckie off the big steps after the Paris sprint .... which Cav should do for his hat-trick.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 22, 2011, 10:08:35 pm
I recon Cuddles will do it but I'm rooting for ' Heart of a Lion' Tommy V to pull one out of the bag .

+1. But I don't think he will. He looked completely shagged out and demoralised today.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: kcass on July 22, 2011, 10:10:40 pm
Nice story here about Bernard Eisel and David Millar helping one another on today's stage

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/video-eisel-talks-time-limits-at-lalpe-dhuez
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 22, 2011, 10:21:10 pm
Nice story here about Bernard Eisel and David Millar helping one another on today's stage

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/video-eisel-talks-time-limits-at-lalpe-dhuez

Like  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Karla on July 22, 2011, 10:22:45 pm
So, what are the odds that the margin will be within 8 seconds?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 22, 2011, 10:24:26 pm
So, what are the odds that the margin will be within 8 seconds?

As they'll all be using tri bars this time, it will be closer than that.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 22, 2011, 10:25:02 pm
Nice story here about Bernard Eisel and David Millar helping one another on today's stage

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/video-eisel-talks-time-limits-at-lalpe-dhuez

That's nice.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Doosh on July 22, 2011, 10:45:18 pm
Damn it, nobody to cheer for now Voeckler is out of contention. Can't be doing with that odious Aussie gobshite, and Stiff Neck and his brother are about as exciting as recycled cardboard.

I suppose I can just wait till Sunday and cheer on Cav.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 22, 2011, 11:32:43 pm
Ach come on... Andy Schleck has set the Tour on fire these past two days. IMO Evans doesn't deserve the win, if he gets it (which I dont think he will)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Jakob on July 22, 2011, 11:43:00 pm
Dunno..kinda lost it for the Schlecks with their pathetic whining about the descents....but I'd rather have them than Evans.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 22, 2011, 11:48:00 pm
Evans just never shows any elan. Determination, yes, but flair? Nope.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 22, 2011, 11:54:39 pm
assuming no sprints tomorrow how many points are up for grabs on Sunday?

Points for the first 15 at the finish: 45-35-30-26-22-20-18-16-14-12-10-8-6-4-2

And for the intermediate sprint: 20-17-15-13-11-10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1

I really can't see anyone beating Cav on the Champs Elysées. He's going to make it a hat-trick. It's about as nailed on as Gilbert was for stage one.

Oh, and by the way: there are points on offer tomorrow for the top 15 - same as the points for an intermediate sprint on a normal stage - but no chance of Cav or Rojas troubling the scorers.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Bledlow on July 23, 2011, 12:08:55 am
Dunno..kinda lost it for the Schlecks with their pathetic whining about the descents....but I'd rather have them than Evans.
+1 for Andy, but did Frank whine, too?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Pingu on July 23, 2011, 12:23:03 am
Dunno..kinda lost it for the Schlecks with their pathetic whining about the descents....but I'd rather have them than Evans.
+1 for Andy, but did Frank whine, too?

Yes
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 23, 2011, 06:47:54 am
Have any of today's papers used the headline "Six Mauled In Leopard Attack"?

If not, they should have.

I'm disappointed that a Leopard rider never took the lead in the KoM competition - I was looking forward to the headlines about them never changing their spots  :)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 23, 2011, 10:12:39 am
Dunno..kinda lost it for the Schlecks with their pathetic whining about the descents....but I'd rather have them than Evans.
+1 for Andy, but did Frank whine, too?

Yes.

Evans isn't that boring, he just doesn't have a kick - like Ullrich.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Andrew Br on July 23, 2011, 10:23:03 am
Ach come on... Andy Schleck has set the Tour on fire these past two days. IMO Evans doesn't deserve the win, if he gets it (which I dont think he will)

Yes, that sum it up for me.
I had him down as  whinging git who knew he was going to lose and then he went off on that break.
Respect to Evans but I want Andy to win.

Although it's nice outside,  I'm not going out on the bike today  ;)

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 23, 2011, 10:35:16 am
Son2 wants to be taken into Swindon to buy a skateboard.  I've said he had better speak to his mother as I am watching the TT today.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 23, 2011, 10:36:00 am
Dunno..kinda lost it for the Schlecks with their pathetic whining about the descents....but I'd rather have them than Evans.
+1 for Andy, but did Frank whine, too?

Yes.

Evans isn't that boring, he just doesn't have a kick - like Ullrich.

WE all know where Ullrich got his kick from - unlike Evans. 
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Gus on July 23, 2011, 10:36:12 am
Ach come on... Andy Schleck has set the Tour on fire these past two days. IMO Evans doesn't deserve the win, if he gets it (which I dont think he will)

That's correct, but Leopard Trek should have closed the race long ago, they are without doubt the best team,
but haven't used it to their advantage.
If Cadel wins it's because he is the strongest and smartest rider this year.

Either way it's been one of the more memorable races and the best rider will win.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 23, 2011, 10:52:40 am
WE all know where Ullrich got his kick from - unlike Evans.

I think he is comparing Evans to Ullrich...neither of them had a kick.  Watching Evans this year is like watching Ullrich against Armstrong.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 23, 2011, 11:27:43 am
Dunno..kinda lost it for the Schlecks with their pathetic whining about the descents....but I'd rather have them than Evans.
+1 for Andy, but did Frank whine, too?

Yes.

Evans isn't that boring, he just doesn't have a kick - like Ullrich.

WE all know where Ullrich got his kick from - unlike Evans.

The point is that Ullrich took about 100m to get going, despite any GDR-style "preparation".
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 23, 2011, 11:28:29 am
WE all know where Ullrich got his kick from - unlike Evans.

I think he is comparing Evans to Ullrich...neither of them had a kick.  Watching Evans this year is like watching Ullrich against Armstrong.

Quite.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 23, 2011, 11:31:17 am
Okay, I know what you mean, I think.  Paul S and Phil L were talking about his diesel engine and how he doesn't respond as well to fast changes to the speed of the peleton.  Bradley Wiggins doesn't seem to have a kick either - but in my mind that doesn't make them bad or boring to watch.  If anything it makes it more exciting as there is the 'will he or wont he' catch them question.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 23, 2011, 11:33:31 am
Okay, I know what you mean, I think.  Paul S and Phil L were talking about his diesel engine and how he doesn't respond as well to fast changes to the speed of the peleton.  Bradley Wiggins doesn't seem to have a kick either - but in my mind that doesn't make them bad or boring to watch.  If anything it makes it more exciting as there is the 'will he or wont he' catch them question.

Although I do wish Cuddles would discover the small chainring more often, and spin. It's painful watching him sometimes.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 23, 2011, 11:40:46 am
This is one of the aspects of Evans that I respect this year.  He is riding in a way that suits him.  He is not trying to be something that he is not. It shows maturity and confidence in his ability and was lacking a few years ago I reckon.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rhys W on July 23, 2011, 02:09:47 pm
Eddy the Boss wearing a black armband today. Haven't seen Thor yet.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 23, 2011, 02:13:06 pm
Spoke to mum downunder.  The talk in Oz is 'Yell for Cadel'.  Massive support in Australia.
Title: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 23, 2011, 02:19:44 pm
Cadel rides with True Grit. Just cos he can't dance up the mountains, that doesn't mean he has no panache. Not his fault he doesn't have a climber's physique. Just look at his ride on the Strade Bianche in last year's Giro to see how much class he has. Or his World Championship win.

d.
Title: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 23, 2011, 02:26:08 pm
Okay, I know what you mean, I think.  Paul S and Phil L were talking about his diesel engine and how he doesn't respond as well to fast changes to the speed of the peleton.  Bradley Wiggins doesn't seem to have a kick either - but in my mind that doesn't make them bad or boring to watch.  If anything it makes it more exciting as there is the 'will he or wont he' catch them question.

Cadel hasn't needed to respond instantly to the attacks on the mountains - he's known he can reel them in by riding his own race. The Schlecks have raced hard without really achieving much by it - they should have established an unassailable margin by now.

I'm convinced Wiggo would have ridden a similar race to Cadel, would have matched him in the mountains (based on his form in the Dauphiné), and then would have clinched yellow today.

What might have been...

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: lord hereford on July 23, 2011, 02:29:22 pm
I will be yelling for Cadel, particularly as I will win £160 if he wins.
My partner asked what we would spend the winnings on if does do it.

I said "New road shoes?" It didn't go down too well.....
I think he will win it by 7 seconds from Andrew.

I am wearing my Cuddles t-shirt, just for luck.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 23, 2011, 03:42:05 pm
Jeez this is close.  Schelck looks like he is dieing out there.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Justin(e) on July 23, 2011, 03:43:07 pm
I am wearing my Cuddles t-shirt, just for luck.
12 seconds to make up!!

Go you good thing.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Aidan on July 23, 2011, 03:44:30 pm
Looks like Cadel can do it! 
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Justin(e) on July 23, 2011, 03:46:03 pm
2 seconds to make up!!

Now 1 second.

Is he out too fast
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Aidan on July 23, 2011, 03:47:02 pm
Cadel in virtual yellow
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Justin(e) on July 23, 2011, 04:01:17 pm
Cadel in virtual yellow

Virual:

1 Cuddly
2 Andy
3 Bertie

Maybe

1 Cuddly
2 Bertie
3 Andy

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Justin(e) on July 23, 2011, 04:09:50 pm
newsflash

One day in yellow is all he needed.


YES !!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: lord hereford on July 23, 2011, 04:35:36 pm
£160 cher ching!

Cheers, Cuddles.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: lord hereford on July 23, 2011, 04:50:39 pm
Just thinking. Tomorrow is a 'procession' into Paris, BUT if Cadel was, for instance, bitten by a rabbid dog or struck by a Leopard trek team car this evening and limped in tomorrow 30mins, down would they have to award it to Andy on time or would Cuddles get it even if he loses time?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Justin(e) on July 23, 2011, 04:51:57 pm
Just thinking. Tomorrow is a 'procession' into Paris, BUT if Cadel was, for instance, bitten by a rabbid dog or struck by a Leopard trek team car this evening and limped in tomorrow 30mins, down would they have to award it to Andy on time or would Cuddles get it even if he loses time?

Dont spend your money yet.

ie: It aint over till ...
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 23, 2011, 04:55:11 pm
I've always wondered what would happen if someone broke the "no attacks on the ride to Paris" understanding. A surprise breakaway could net a couple of extra minutes for someone.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 23, 2011, 05:00:42 pm
Any GC contenders attack, riders from all other teams with GC interests band together and pull them back whilst telling them to stop being stupid and breaking the rules of cycling!

Also, if Cuddles rides into a wall tomorrow, losing 10 minutes while waiting for his team car to come up and the gap's maintained, he loses Yellow.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Justin(e) on July 23, 2011, 05:07:20 pm
I've always wondered what would happen if someone broke the "no attacks on the ride to Paris" understanding. A surprise breakaway could net a couple of extra minutes for someone.

Simeoni attacked Armstrong a couple of years ago.  Stopped him sipping his champagne for a few clicks.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 23, 2011, 05:07:41 pm
That was still the most exciting TdF I have watched so far.  Now we just need Cav to bring it home tomorrow.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: pcolbeck on July 23, 2011, 05:10:14 pm
I was thinking that if Voeckler had managed to stay within a minute of the lead today the French riders might have been tempted to support him in a breakaway for the glory of France.
Title: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 23, 2011, 05:12:48 pm
A surprise breakaway could net a couple of extra minutes for someone.

There's always an attempt at a breakaway once they get onto the Champs Elysées but it's never successful. Never. Ever.

And it's even less likely to be successful with HTC chasing a third straight win for Cav.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 23, 2011, 05:16:40 pm
BUT if Cadel was, for instance, bitten by a rabbid dog or struck by a Leopard trek team car this evening

Or even mauled by a Leopard?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 23, 2011, 05:17:41 pm
Any GC contenders attack, riders from all other teams with GC interests band together and pull them back whilst telling them to stop being stupid and breaking the rules of cycling!

The real rules, that is, as opposed to the UCI's rules  :)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Domestique on July 23, 2011, 05:30:45 pm
I was thinking that if Voeckler had managed to stay within a minute of the lead today the French riders might have been tempted to support him in a breakaway for the glory of France.

Anything is better than an Aussie winning, anything!   :demon:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Mrs Pingu on July 23, 2011, 05:39:08 pm
What a great tour it's been!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Aidan on July 23, 2011, 05:44:20 pm
What a great tour it's been!

Yep, best for a while, really enjoyable
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: MSeries on July 23, 2011, 05:48:13 pm
Just thinking. Tomorrow is a 'procession' into Paris, BUT if Cadel was, for instance, bitten by a rabbid dog or struck by a Leopard trek team car this evening and limped in tomorrow 30mins, down would they have to award it to Andy on time or would Cuddles get it even if he loses time?

The Tour ends tomorrow not today. Tomorrow is still a proper stage with time limits, sprint points and everything. If Evans fails to start or manages to faff around on the last lap, due to a mechanical or something, and lose 2 minutes to a Schleck, then he'll not win the Tour.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: lord hereford on July 23, 2011, 05:58:14 pm
The one downer at the end of such an amazing race is that the winner is an A***ie.
I've been cheering Cuddles as a bit of an anti-hero for a while, particularly since he won the World Champs and did good stuff in the Giro, but it is very difficult to to see an A***ie win.
But they are such a humble lot and will in no way go overboard with their celebrations....
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: IanDG on July 23, 2011, 06:16:54 pm
Well done Cadel  :thumbsup:

Just a shame Voekler couldn't jump above Frank Schleck too.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 23, 2011, 07:50:24 pm
Well done Cadel, enjoy the celebratory bank holiday  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Tewdric on July 23, 2011, 08:25:28 pm
If Evans fails to start or manages to faff around on the last lap, due to a mechanical ... then he'll not win the Tour.

I think it highly likely that he'll start.  A crash that close to the finish doesn't affect the overall time.  If he has a mechanical a team-mate will have given him a bike and he'll be rolling again within seconds.  A bad crash is all that will stop him now, and he will be very carefully shepherded.

He's won the race, and good on him.

I agree it's been the best tour for years - maybe since the Fignon/Lemond finale? 
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 23, 2011, 09:34:04 pm
This year's must have outfit for roadside fans...Edinburgh firm Morphsuits stretches global reach
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-14252711
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: border-rider on July 23, 2011, 09:35:41 pm
Fantastic Tour :)

we were routing for Evans to beat the tedious Schleck

good for Contador also
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Peter on July 23, 2011, 11:33:01 pm
Wondered when someone would mention Alberto.  Where might he have been if it hadn't been for that early crash?  That's not to take anything away from Evans, who has been hard as nails.  In fact, all the top ten riders have been outstanding, with the possible exception of Frank Schleck, who has merely been very good.  Many other riders have contributed to giving us one of the great tours.

What odds on Contador missing the Giro next year and winning the TdF - by a considerable margin?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Steve Kish on July 23, 2011, 11:46:25 pm
Quote
The Tour ends tomorrow not today.

What he said!  All that exists is a tradition amongst the riders not to attack the yellow jersey on the last day .... except in 1989, of course!  Cuddles must cross the line to win and it's generally the whole pelican that will ensure that this happens.

Hopefully Cav will move from 'only rider ever to win Champs Elysees finish two years in a row' to a hat-trick. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rhys W on July 24, 2011, 12:04:22 am
Even Contador comes out of this looking good. If he'd have destroyed his rivals he'd have been accused of all sorts. Once he knew he'd lost the GC he went all-out for a stage win in the terrain that he excels in - and failed. Now he just looks fallible and human.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Justin(e) on July 24, 2011, 04:32:11 am
Even Contador comes out of this looking good. If he'd have destroyed his rivals he'd have been accused of all sorts. Once he knew he'd lost the GC he went all-out for a stage win in the terrain that he excels in - and failed. Now he just looks fallible and human.

I agree.

Contador showed real character in attaching on the Galibier (part II).  I think that - if all goes well - he is capable of 3 GT wins in a single year, but it was nice to see him struggle a little.  When he got dropped on the ascent of the Galibier (part I) he dug deep to show his real character.

The most satifying aspect of this whole tour is that I can believe that the winner was drug free.  The first time ever (for me) that I have such confidence.

Cadel's first public speech after taking on the MJ was to thank his dead coach Aldo Sassi  (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/italian-coach-aldo-sassi-under-treatment-for-a-brain-tumor) - a noted anti-drug campaigner.  Nice bit of class from the guy who I never really forgave for not dedicating his brilliant break away six years ago  (http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/tour-de-france-2005/stage-16/results) to Amy Gillet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Gillett).

There was a great article in my newpaper yesterday by Simon Barnes about why test cricket is the best of  all possible sports.  Essentially it allows the character of indiviuals to be seen and the drama is hightened by the length of the plot development.  I think the TdF trumps this on both accounts.  The drama of having to wait for so long till the final result was known was incredible and watching Evans mature over the years (and even the last couple of weeks) have made this one of the most enjoyable moments of my many years spectating sport.  Ohh - and maybe I didn't mention it, but the fact that he is a compatriot and Opperman  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubert_Opperman) is one of my all time sporting heros adds a certain frisson to the moment as well.  73 years is a long time to since that first trip took a boat load of hopeful Ozzies to Paris with dreams of success in the biggest bike race of them all, but it is worth it.

Chapeau Mr Evans. 
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: IanDG on July 24, 2011, 09:05:43 am
Having watched the ITV4 coverage in the evening, I can only say  :o to the way Evans 'stormed' the TT.

I mis-timed the afternoon coverage, came in from the garden an hour too late, turned on the TV to see Evans on the podium. As I turned the TV off I heard 1'34" mentioned and thought that was his winning margin on the day. ie GC leader by 37 secs.

What a surprise I got later in the evening when I realised Evans had hammered Schleck by 2 1/2 mins. Astonishing!!

Bravo Cadel  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 24, 2011, 10:57:45 am
Millar gives a good interview here.  He appears more human of late.  I am looking forward to reading his book.

http://bcove.me/cnheupz0
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 24, 2011, 12:56:38 pm
we were routing for Evans to beat the tedious Schleck

Tedious Schleck? If it weren't for the brothers Schleck, this tour would not have been 1/2 as great as it was!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: IanDG on July 24, 2011, 12:59:34 pm
we were routing for Evans to beat the tedious Schleck

Tedious Schleck? If it weren't for the brothers Schleck, this tour would not have been 1/2 as great as it was!

One attack from Andy and a lot of whinging from both of them, but a display of dogged determination from Evans and Voekler who, IMO, both rode a much more exciting race ;)
Title: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 24, 2011, 01:00:25 pm
The drama of having to wait for so long till the final result was known was incredible

I know! A whole year on and we still don't know last year's result yet! ;)

d.
Title: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 24, 2011, 01:05:05 pm
Even Contador comes out of this looking good. If he'd have destroyed his rivals he'd have been accused of all sorts. Once he knew he'd lost the GC he went all-out for a stage win in the terrain that he excels in - and failed. Now he just looks fallible and human.

His post-race interview where he said he made the attack "for the fun of riding my bike" really brought a smile to my face. What better reason can there be?

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 24, 2011, 01:24:22 pm
we were routing for Evans to beat the tedious Schleck

Tedious Schleck? If it weren't for the brothers Schleck, this tour would not have been 1/2 as great as it was!

One attack from Andy and a lot of whinging from both of them, but a display of dogged determination from Evans and Voekler who, IMO, both rode a much more exciting race ;)
The only mountain finish where one of them didn't put time into Evans was the last one! Andy was also responsible for, arguably, the greatest stage win in the last decade.

It could just be that I don't really like Evans though ;)

RE. David Millar - which channel do you think he's got his eye on the commentary job for?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: IanDG on July 24, 2011, 01:28:54 pm

Andy was also responsible for, arguably, the greatest stage win in the last decade.



I'd agree with that - and if Evan's hadn't led the chase and towed the 'pack' along I think it may have been a race winning move by Andy Schleck
Title: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 24, 2011, 01:29:47 pm
Andy was also responsible for, arguably, the greatest stage win in the last decade.

Andy's winning margin wasn't what it should have been. Cadel didn't panic, rode his own race and was reeling him in towards the end - with no help at all from the peloton. In many ways, Cadel's ride was just as good as Andy's that day.

Rolland's win on Alpe d'Huez trumped Andy's win on the Galibier for me.

It could just be that I don't really like Schleck though. ;)

d.
Title: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 24, 2011, 01:31:59 pm

Andy was also responsible for, arguably, the greatest stage win in the last decade.



I'd agree with that - and if Evan's hadn't led the chase and towed the 'pack' along I think it may have been a race winning move by Andy Schleck

As per earlier comments, I wonder if Andy now regrets not pressing home his advantage at Luz Ardiden. Did he sit up and wait or was he on the limit?

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: peliroja on July 24, 2011, 01:38:43 pm
I don't find the Andy Schleck the most charismatic of cyclists, but his breakaway was absolutely gripping. Finishing into a headwind, up the Galibier? That requires cojones. I think that stage was harder than the Alpe D'Huez stage, because of the headwind. Perhaps if he grimaced a little more and whined a little less, he'd be more popular?

That said, chapeau to Cadel Evans. When he had that mechanical and had to swap bikes I thought he was a goner, but he has a mountain biker's determination!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: lord hereford on July 24, 2011, 02:24:27 pm
As they are riding through the 'burbs of Paris ,it is good to see the mix of the crowd on the streets with so many African and Asian origin people turning out and cheering them on. Bit of a change from the mountain stages when you may not see one black face. Maybe the next Genet is watching from the pavement?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 24, 2011, 05:17:41 pm
we were routing for Evans to beat the tedious Schleck

Tedious Schleck? If it weren't for the brothers Schleck, this tour would not have been 1/2 as great as it was!

One attack from Andy and a lot of whinging from both of them, but a display of dogged determination from Evans and Voekler who, IMO, both rode a much more exciting race ;)

After last year I felt quite sorry for Schleck (A) - until he started whinging this year.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: lord hereford on July 24, 2011, 08:08:18 pm
Sunday, 8.05pm

I am bereft.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 24, 2011, 08:29:34 pm
Yes, but a wealthy bereft  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Euan Uzami on July 24, 2011, 09:04:28 pm
Can somebody please explain, it was said today that cadel evans only had to finish to keep the yellow jersey and win, but in total he was only 1 and a bit minutes ahead of andy schleck, so why didn't he have to finish within that time of him?
Is it true or not that he had already won prior to the last stage?
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 24, 2011, 09:14:11 pm
Barring a Schleck breakaway, they would all be in the peleton with no significant time gaps
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: arvid on July 24, 2011, 09:15:02 pm
It is not done to attack the yellow jersey on the last day. Also, the course isn't really suitable for it.
Evans needed to finish within 1m36s of Andy today.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: border-rider on July 24, 2011, 10:25:14 pm
Just watched today's highlights

That must be the best TdF I've ever seen, by a long way :)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rhys W on July 25, 2011, 12:04:13 am
OK this has been bugging me for a while now - why "Cuddles"?

I dug out a clip of Keith Harris and his simian sidekick and I couldn't see the similarity. Is he supposed to look like him or sound like him? Or is it a play on his name? Please explain.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 25, 2011, 01:44:49 am
OK this has been bugging me for a while now - why "Cuddles"?

I don't know but I assumed it was just because it sounds a bit like his name. What kind of a name is Cadel anyway? Never heard of anyone else with that name.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 25, 2011, 03:46:21 am
OK this has been bugging me for a while now - why "Cuddles"?

I don't know but I assumed it was just because it sounds a bit like his name. What kind of a name is Cadel anyway? Never heard of anyone else with that name.

d.

Welsh, the Evans bit is a giveaway. His middle name is Lee, which is perhaps who he models his free and easy demeanour on.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 25, 2011, 07:18:24 am
(http://www.mark-gatiss.leagueofgentlemen.de/HerrLipp05.jpg)
Title: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: citoyen on July 25, 2011, 08:20:13 am
Welsh, the Evans bit is a giveaway. His middle name is Lee, which is perhaps who he models his free and easy demeanour on.

Fair enough. It does sound a bit Welsh now you mention it.

Love the idea of Cadel doing slapstick standup.

d.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 25, 2011, 08:54:25 am
Beaming Aussie cyclists in Barwon Heads.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-25/riding-buddies-hail-sensational-cadel/2809032
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: GruB on July 25, 2011, 08:57:55 am
This Aussie interview shows how fast the cycling is in the background.  From watching the ITV4 highlights and live you don't get this side on perspective.  They are flying - literally a blur.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/clean-freak-cadel-evans-triomphe/story-fn8sc2wz-1226100922200
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 25, 2011, 09:06:31 am
OK this has been bugging me for a while now - why "Cuddles"?

I always thought it was because, in interviews in previous years, he's always come across as such a spiky, miserable sod. Remember the "interview with a crash helmet"?

I think he's just very shy. This year he's been a lot more outgoing - perhaps he's had a course in handling the media. Or he's just more confident.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rhys W on July 25, 2011, 09:14:54 am
I googled it and the only thing I could come up with was that it's similar to how the French pronounce his name. Whatever the reason, it does kinda suit him.

Also, his great-grandfather was Welsh. Cadel may sound Welsh (especially with the addition of Evans), but my first language is Welsh and I've never heard of anybody else with that name - but there were a few kings many centuries ago with the name Cadell.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Karla on July 25, 2011, 09:44:05 am
RE. David Millar - which channel do you think he's got his eye on the commentary job for?

Paul Kimmage said that his nickname in the peloton was "Monsieur Journalist" or somesuch.  I've been wondering lately what Millar's getting called - it can't be too dissimilar. 
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Mr Larrington on July 25, 2011, 12:27:20 pm
I noticed Thor and EBH were both wearing black armbands.  It would have been nice if they'd been allowed to lead across the line on the first lap or something.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Honest John on July 25, 2011, 12:34:43 pm
I noticed Thor and EBH were both wearing black armbands.  It would have been nice if they'd been allowed to lead across the line on the first lap or something.

Well, they had a minute's silence at the start, with most of the riders bare-headed and EBH and Thor at the front. Prudhomme then shook the Norwegians' hands and had a word.

After the Depart Fictif, the jersey wearers led, with EBH and Thor next, for the photo opps and general faffing-about before the Depart Real.

They stayed near(ish) the front until the race reached the Champs Elysee and all hell let loose.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rhys W on July 25, 2011, 01:57:59 pm
I think the whole Sky team were wearing black armbands - looking at Swifty at the end. Hard to tell from the front with the Sky jerseys though.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: mattc on July 25, 2011, 03:29:28 pm
It is not done to attack the yellow jersey on the last day. Also, the course isn't really suitable for it.
Evans needed to finish within 1m36s of Andy today.
I think it's more about probabilities than etiquette. There have been attacks in the post-war ("modern") period, though I don't know if any succeeded.

With Evans still having a few teammates left, he and a sprinter's team would always chase down any breakaway. And 1m36 is indeed a big gap on such a short/flat stage.

Incidentally:
The attacks from minor riders seemed to start much later than usual this year. Did I imagine this, or was there a different etiquette this year for some reason?

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 25, 2011, 03:31:19 pm
They weren't attacking Evans
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 25, 2011, 03:40:58 pm
I googled it and the only thing I could come up with was that it's similar to how the French pronounce his name. Whatever the reason, it does kinda suit him.

Also, his great-grandfather was Welsh. Cadel may sound Welsh (especially with the addition of Evans), but my first language is Welsh and I've never heard of anybody else with that name - but there were a few kings many centuries ago with the name Cadell.

Welsh names seem to be phonetic and the spelling varies with region and down to valleys.
http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Cadel
Cad constructions in Welsh might echo Cadw, to keep, which is the name of the Welsh National Heritage body.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 25, 2011, 04:36:27 pm
I think we tend to think that everyone is self-promoting in this day and age. But there is a thread in human culture that holds that you risk the wrath of the Gods if you stand out. Cadel changed from a yellow bike to his standard one during the ride yesterday. There is also the 'Tall Poppy Syndrome' which is especially prevelant in Australia.

Quote
The phrase has been in more common use since Jack Lang, Premier of New South Wales, described his egalitarian policies as "cutting the heads off tall poppies" in 1931. "Mr. Lang made some of the tall poppies suffer who could be made to suffer."[5] "The tall poppies of the party had dragged Mr. Lang's name into the debate to cloud the issue."[6]

Australians argue, however, that they only cut down Tall Poppies that act in an arrogant or aloof manner. A person can have great talent or prowess and if they combine that with humility or self-deprecating humor they will not be cut down. This can be seen in the success of Kylie Minogue, Hugh Jackman, Ian Thorpe, and Steve Irwin. Australians do not begrudge success to those who do not act above themselves. It is the attitude not the success that determines the cultural reaction.

Cadel is problematic because he doesn't seem to have any of the Australian characteristic of 'Mateship' so he sticks out due to that, he compounds that by being retiring. The Yellow Jersey demands that its wearer is available for interview. This year's Tour worked to perfection for him, he spent the minimum time in Yellow and Voeckler diverted attention.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 25, 2011, 05:04:04 pm
Cuddles? Because it sounds a bit like Cadel and also because he's the most miserable rider out there!
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: mattc on July 25, 2011, 06:18:06 pm
They weren't attacking Evans
Oh sure - but I think there's etiquette that the leader gets to drink bubbly with his team (and other nonsense) before the 'real' racing (i.e. for the stage win) starts.

It just seemed to start later this year. Maybe.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Steve Kish on July 25, 2011, 07:49:40 pm
Quote
why "Cuddles"?

Sorry, I believe I started this. ::-)

In the 1980s, my team-mate Warwick Rowe had a younger brother called Cadel.  That was his nickname!! ;D
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 25, 2011, 07:59:35 pm
Sigh, I'm missing it already.  :(

Still, only 49 weeks to go before it starts again  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 25, 2011, 08:01:46 pm
Quote
why "Cuddles"?

Sorry, I believe I started this. ::-)

In the 1980s, my team-mate Warwick Rowe had a younger brother called Cadel.  That was his nickname!! ;D

You're making that up surely, it's like the Welease Wodderwick scene in Life of Brian.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Tim on July 25, 2011, 08:02:23 pm
Less than that - they start early next year
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: RW on July 25, 2011, 08:40:37 pm
Sigh, I'm missing it already.  :(

Still, only 49 weeks to go before it starts again  :thumbsup:

I had to buy a copy of L'Équippe this morning in WHSmiths in Victoria Station.  It'll take me at least a couple of days to read it at the speed I read French - dictionary to hand.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rhys W on July 25, 2011, 09:19:48 pm
Sigh, I'm missing it already.  :(

Still, only 49 weeks to go before it starts again  :thumbsup:

Cheer up, the week after next it's the Tour of er, Poland!  ;D
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 25, 2011, 09:43:45 pm
Some nice photos, including one of Contador lamping a prick

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2011/07/2011_tour_de_france_part_2.html#photo27
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 25, 2011, 09:49:52 pm
Another thought, in what other sport would you have to suffer so much just to win a stuffed toy ?

(http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lov28t9Xgt1qzg6ero1_500.jpg)

(I hope he keeps it safe from Molly)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Steve Kish on July 25, 2011, 10:02:58 pm
One of the high points of the race was that bit ..................... the short-haired woman on the left!! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: RJ on July 25, 2011, 10:04:55 pm
Well - that was nearly all pretty amazing.  Pity about the crashes.  Let's hope the bubble of high drama isn't burst by a wad of lab results. 

I googled it and the only thing I could come up with was that it's similar to how the French pronounce his name. Whatever the reason, it does kinda suit him.

Also, his great-grandfather was Welsh. Cadel may sound Welsh (especially with the addition of Evans), but my first language is Welsh and I've never heard of anybody else with that name - but there were a few kings many centuries ago with the name Cadell.
Welsh names seem to be phonetic and the spelling varies with region and down to valleys.

... except that Welsh "l" and "ll" are completely different phonemes ("ll" shared with Zulu and no other language ...)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: IanDG on July 25, 2011, 10:06:25 pm
Another thought, in what other sport would you have to suffer so much just to win a stuffed toy ?



plus a lions share of the 493, 990 euros that BMC won
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: spesh on July 25, 2011, 10:08:21 pm
Some nice photos, including one of Contador lamping a prick

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2011/07/2011_tour_de_france_part_2.html#photo27

The real reason Contador got the combativity award for that stage.  ;D  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: gonzo on July 25, 2011, 10:14:12 pm
The podium girls have gone downhill since Julie Blanc back in 2009:
(http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss62/bigleaguescrew/podium_girls-18.jpg)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Nuncio on July 25, 2011, 10:35:57 pm

... except that Welsh "l" and "ll" are completely different phonemes ("ll" shared with Zulu and no other language ...)

(Very OT) Not quite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolar_lateral_fricative) (the 'no other language bit, not the "l" and "ll" distinction).
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: RJ on July 25, 2011, 10:38:58 pm

... except that Welsh "l" and "ll" are completely different phonemes ("ll" shared with Zulu and no other language ...)

(Very OT) Not quite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolar_lateral_fricative) (the 'no other language bit, not the "l" and "ll" distinction).

Hmmm.  I knew that linguistics lecturer was no good ....
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: kcass on July 25, 2011, 11:08:48 pm
Another thought, in what other sport would you have to suffer so much just to win a stuffed toy ?


plus a lions share of the 493, 990 euros that BMC won

I think they share it equally among the team. The winner make his money later. That's what Phil and Paul always said back in the day anyway (when Channel 4 started showing the Tour).

Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Hot Flatus on July 25, 2011, 11:13:01 pm
Except Cadel Evans is a bit of a sponsorship nightmare, unlike the advertisers wet dream that was Lance.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 26, 2011, 07:16:50 am
The podium girls have gone downhill since Julie Blanc back in 2009:

I disagree...

(http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/9b/fullj.ddbdbb4880fa900d091869e146c9d5f9/ddbdbb4880fa900d091869e146c9d5f9-getty-_.jpg)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Mr Larrington on July 26, 2011, 11:17:09 am
Is this the first time the Tour has been won by a ventriloquist's dummy?  Still, my evenings now have a big Tour-shaped hole in them.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 27, 2011, 06:56:23 am
Robert Millar seems to sum it up pretty well
Quote
In the end, confidence was probably the difference. The whole race, Cadel Evans looked like he was riding to win the Tour, while the Schleck brothers looked like they were trying not to lose.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/robert-millar/why-evans-beat-the-schleck-brothers
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 27, 2011, 08:40:34 am
I think you are right on that one Rig,

I caught up with highlights of the TT last night. On the start ramp, Cadel was completely "In The Zone", a picture of concentration. Andy Schleck on the other hand was uncomfortable and fiddling with his new yellow gloves and looking around. As far away from The Zone as it is possible to get.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: IanDG on July 27, 2011, 09:54:16 am
I think you are right on that one Rig,

I caught up with highlights of the TT last night. On the start ramp, Cadel was completely "In The Zone", a picture of concentration. Andy Schleck on the other hand was uncomfortable and fiddling with his new yellow gloves and looking around. As far away from The Zone as it is possible to get.

Didn't Sherwin comment that the french call him 'Andy Rubberneck'
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: IanDG on July 27, 2011, 10:11:41 am
Another thought, in what other sport would you have to suffer so much just to win a stuffed toy ?


plus a lions share of the 493, 990 euros that BMC won

I think they share it equally among the team. The winner make his money later. That's what Phil and Paul always said back in the day anyway (when Channel 4 started showing the Tour).



The cuddly toy's the 'lions share' ;)
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: onb on July 31, 2011, 06:00:34 pm
Is it really only a week since it ended seems loke ages ago.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: Nuncio on August 01, 2011, 09:11:24 am
Only 48 weeks to go to the next one. And Vuelta and World Champs to look forward to.  And contract/transfer speculation to fill in the gaps.
Title: Re: TdF 2011 general discussion thread - likely to contain spoilers
Post by: David Martin on August 01, 2011, 09:42:13 am
1st August so now contract speculation can become fact..