Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Audax => Topic started by: legitlee on August 01, 2011, 11:13:08 am

Title: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: legitlee on August 01, 2011, 11:13:08 am
Its me again the newbie (albeit excited :thumbsup:) my question is more of a interest than thinking about doing any distance which may warrant sleep. I have just been reading a thread on speeds and getting to controls early/late fitting in breaks for food etc.

I have read reports when one cyclist passed another who was asleep in a bus shelter and other places.

My question is: How do you fit sleep in when you have to be at controls within certain times?

Just to keep you all informed from the advice given on another thread I have picked my first few Audax, I have decided to do the following so far:
4th Sep 107 Moria,
10th Sep 111 Tamworth
1st Oct 109 Darley Abbey,
16th Oct 107 Alfreton,
Then start the new season with 12th Nov 100 Alfreton. That should keep me busy.....Thanks in anticipation Lee
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: MercuryKev on August 01, 2011, 11:22:23 am
The trick is to build up a time buffer that allows you to have a few hours sleep.  For example on a 600km ride that starts at 6am, you can ride a 22 hour 400km, which means that you could have a sleep at 2am.  Lets say that the next control is at the 500km mark, based on a 15km/h minimum speed you have 33h 20 min to get to the control, or 11h 20min after you reach the 400km mark.  If it takes you 5 hours to ride 100km, you could then afford to sleep for 6h 20mins.  This means that you could sleep until 7am, have some breakfast and then ride on to the next control within the time limits.

The trick is allowing time for things like punctures etc so that you don't miss the time limit for the control after the sleep stop.

Hope that all makes sense.
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: legitlee on August 01, 2011, 11:36:37 am
Yes thank you totally makes sense, I think that's why I'm going to enjoy the challenge of Audax, lots of planning and preparation along with having to decide things on the day make for much more of a challenge to just following signs as on a sportive. 
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: Wobbly on August 01, 2011, 01:09:33 pm
Or you can do what I do - i.e. not sleep on 400s and 600s.

1200s & 1400s, however, I can't manage without sleeping :)
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: MercuryKev on August 01, 2011, 01:29:00 pm
Or you can do what I do - i.e. not sleep on 400s and 600s.

1200s & 1400s, however, I can't manage without sleeping :)


I sohuld have said that I've never had any need to sleep on anything below a 600 and even on a 600 I can manage without any if that's what's needed.  I do like a warm bed at the 400 stage though - no need to rough it on an audax.
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: mattc on August 01, 2011, 01:56:40 pm
Or you can do what I do - i.e. not sleep on 400s and 600s.


Can he? Could be a big assumption.
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: legitlee on August 01, 2011, 03:32:24 pm
Respect :thumbsup: you guys are one hell of an incentive
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: frankly frankie on August 01, 2011, 03:36:32 pm
But the point is there are more ways to skin a cat.
A lot of people manage OK with a few power naps of <30mins, no need to factor in a sleep of several hours.
Some riders are slow on the road and don't have time to sleep at all.
Others are fast on the road so certainly wouldn't need to sleep on a 400.
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: Wobbly on August 01, 2011, 06:29:10 pm
Or you can do what I do - i.e. not sleep on 400s and 600s.


Can he? Could be a big assumption.

I apologise. I should have written "Or you could do what I do - i.e. not sleep on 400s and 600s."

My humblest thanks to beardie Matt.
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: mikeluke on August 01, 2011, 09:32:17 pm
As a representative of that rare beast, an Audax rider under 30, I find that I need a proper nights sleep but have still comfortablly finished a 600km within the time limit. The key to Audax speed is minimising the length of stops at controls, which gives you more time to ride and sleep as needed.
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: Wobbly on August 02, 2011, 07:48:56 am
The key to Audax speed is minimising the length of stops at controls

+1 to that
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: mattc on August 02, 2011, 08:15:52 am
The key to Audax speed is minimising the length of stops at controls

+1 to that
And pumping your tyres up.
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: legitlee on August 02, 2011, 08:30:01 am
You people are my kind of folks very helpful while having a laugh at the same time. I cant wait to meet some of you. Thx  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: The Mechanic on August 02, 2011, 08:49:10 am
All the audaxes you mention are 100km rides.  You don't even have to wake up for those let alone sleep.
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: mikeluke on August 02, 2011, 09:03:24 am
We all started somewhere... You should look at Autumn in the Peak if you want a short but more challenging ride.
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: fungus on August 02, 2011, 09:23:08 am
We all started somewhere... You should look at Autumn in the Peak if you want a short but more challenging ride.

+1

Any of the hilly peak district 100's are good  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: otherdave on August 02, 2011, 09:33:20 am
The trick is to build up a time buffer that allows you to have a few hours sleep.  For example on a 600km ride that starts at 6am, you can ride a 22 hour 400km, which means that you could have a sleep at 2am.  Lets say that the next control is at the 500km mark, based on a 15km/h minimum speed you have 33h 20 min to get to the control, or 11h 20min after you reach the 400km mark.  If it takes you 5 hours to ride 100km, you could then afford to sleep for 6h 20mins.  This means that you could sleep until 7am, have some breakfast and then ride on to the next control within the time limits.

The trick is allowing time for things like punctures etc so that you don't miss the time limit for the control after the sleep stop.

Hope that all makes sense.

I remember hearing that someone wrote a speadsheet to calculate all this out - so they knew if they were were riding on schedule or not - and how long they could stop/sleep for.
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: LEE on August 02, 2011, 09:56:43 am
I'll sleep if there's somewhere to sleep (YHA on Bryan Chapman 600) and won't if there isn't (Midhurst 600).

I'm not fast enough to get much sleep anyway, I think I usually get 2 hours in the YHA bunk (I could probably get a couple
more but I don't like to cut it too fine getting to the finish).

It's quite amazing what 2 hours kip does to recharge the batteries though, especially waking at 7am after a long night ride.  You realise what proper deep sleep is after riding through a wet and cold night.  2 hours is like 2 seconds.

If you can get through the night you tend to feel better once the sun comes up but I did start hallucinating at the end of the Midhurst 600 as it started to go dark again.  That's why I think it would be too dangerous to attempt 2 nights without sleep.  It's sometimes enough just to lie in the corner of a village hall control for 30 minutes.  Bus Shelters are usually too cold at the time of year I do 600s.
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: legitlee on August 02, 2011, 10:00:37 am
Yes 100s to start with I need to learn a little before I get to ambitious (walking before running comes to mind) I have just done a season of sportives and therefore I follow a signed marked route as quick as I can. I need to learn to navigate whilst cycling and plan my speed, food etc for longer distances.  Its not the fitness or the distance I did a diy 200 to see if I could manage and it was fine.

So I have 4 x 100s in mind prior to November to meet people have a chat learn what I can listen to advice then my first one in November for the start of the new season is a 100, by then the calender for 2012 should be out and I will then start to increase distances, and just suck it and see..
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: Karla on August 02, 2011, 10:20:16 am
As a representative of that rare beast, an Audax rider under 30, I find that I need a proper nights sleep but have still comfortablly finished a 600km within the time limit. The key to Audax speed is minimising the length of stops at controls, which gives you more time to ride and sleep as needed.
As another specimen of the same species, I got through the Bryan Chapman with half an hour's kip.  It takes all sorts  :P
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: CramCycle on August 02, 2011, 11:30:31 am
As a representative of that rare beast, an Audax rider under 30, I find that I need a proper nights sleep but have still comfortablly finished a 600km within the time limit. The key to Audax speed is minimising the length of stops at controls, which gives you more time to ride and sleep as needed.
As another specimen of the same species, I got through the Bryan Chapman with half an hour's kip.  It takes all sorts  :P

I'm a 3rd, I think we are less rare than is widely believed. I lay down for an attempted 90 minutes on the BCpM but forgot my earplugs, so got up worse than when I lay down, then I kipped for 30 minutes on the armchair in the bag room. Felt good after that.
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: Redlight on August 02, 2011, 11:52:10 am
I'm a relatively slow rider so need to use most of the time on longer rides.  I've found that if I go into an event feeling reasonably rested and not stressed about other stuff I can ride a hard 600 (e.g. Beast from the East) without sleeping. I started the BCM this year feeling tired and had to have 30 minutes snoring time in the bag room but was then fine for the rest of the day. I've never stopped to sleep on a 400 but I'll usually have a nap at the finish, especially if I have to drive home afterwards.
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: AndyH on August 02, 2011, 09:24:42 pm
Yes 100s to start with I need to learn a little before I get to ambitious (walking before running comes to mind) I have just done a season of sportives and therefore I follow a signed marked route as quick as I can. I need to learn to navigate whilst cycling and plan my speed, food etc for longer distances.  Its not the fitness or the distance I did a diy 200 to see if I could manage and it was fine.

So I have 4 x 100s in mind prior to November to meet people have a chat learn what I can listen to advice then my first one in November for the start of the new season is a 100, by then the calender for 2012 should be out and I will then start to increase distances, and just suck it and see..

You are well on the slippery slope, I was a total beginner to Audax 18 months ago. Navigation is usually easier than you think, sleep requirements vary.

I always thought I needed loads of it, and concentrated on getting fast enough to bank sleep time. All went well on the Bryan Chapman 600 where I got 4 hours sleep, 2 meals & a shower overnight, but I had a bad time on the K&SW 600, got about 2 hours disturbed sleep and then went fine when I set off on day 2. However it took me a while to get used to any of it. I think the best bet is to try a couple of 400s 1st and see how you go - depending how fast you are a 400 gives you the opportunity to push the boundaries of sleep deprivation.

Until you try it though, you won't really know what you can do. On the first few attempts I'd have some sort of stimulant (gel with caffeine maybe) to just give you a boost - because when you start hallucinating / falling asleep on the bike / riding into ditches you can guarantee that there wont be anywhere handy for a kip. Don't ask me how I know this.

Where are your 4 100s?
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: legitlee on August 03, 2011, 07:00:41 am
This is my plan at the moment.

4th Sep 107 Moria,
10th Sep 111 Tamworth (edit 200)
1st Oct 109 Darley Abbey, (edit 150)
16th Oct 107 Alfreton,
Then start the new season with 12th Nov 100 Alfreton by then next years calendar i think will be out.

However I am still undecided about Tamworth and Darley Abbey, my mind has been debating  jumping in at the deep end and doing Tamworth 200, and at Darley Abbey there is a 150. I'm sure I can complete, I just dont want to be to ambitious, I think I should learn to walk before running.
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: MercuryKev on August 03, 2011, 07:35:06 am
However I am still undecided about Tamworth and Darley Abbey, my mind has been debating  jumping in at the deep end and doing Tamworth 200, and at Darley Abbey there is a 150. I'm sure I can complete, I just dont want to be to ambitious, I think I should learn to walk before running.


If you've already ridden a 200 before I would do the two longer rides.  If your concern is navigation, you'll be surprised how little if often needed on an audax especially if you ride with or near another group.  What's the worst that can happen?
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: YahudaMoon on August 03, 2011, 07:55:08 am
Aint cycling and sleeping dangerous ?

Maybe hardcore long distance cyclist should wear a warning sign on a say hi viz jacket 'Sleeping Cyclist'

Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: CrinklyLion on August 03, 2011, 08:19:01 am
The EldestCub and I did a 50 from tamworth earlier this year. We had various not-getting-lost support (we took an entire rower40 armed with at least 3 gps devices with us, for a start!) but actually even I could follow the route sheet. Nice bit of the world to ride in too :)
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: legitlee on August 03, 2011, 08:22:10 am
Yes I have done a diy 200 and it was raining but i found it enjoyable.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/100751442

I'll print both entry forms off I might even jump off the high board into the deep end, it is suppose to be a challenge after all.

Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: legitlee on August 03, 2011, 10:29:09 am
I have just looked at the events calender and I think I'm going to do 5 x100km and Sept 4th, 10th, 18th, and Oct 1st, 16th and see if I can get a Brevet 500 that would be a great incentive for the following year.....Oh I dont know what to do  ::-)

Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: AndyH on August 03, 2011, 10:55:14 am
Did you get your DIY 200 validated? If so then you will get both the Brevet 500 and the Randonneur 500 for your efforts.

http://www.aukweb.net/results/randonneur/
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: recumbentim on August 04, 2011, 05:21:06 pm
Here is how a recent 1300k works out. 1323k allows 110hrs at 12k per hour.
Thats 5 days , 4nights.
57 hrs on bike and 12 hrs stopped with bike=69hrs.
Leaves 41hrs faffing and sleeping over 4 nights in B and Bs
That was at 15 mph on the bike and quick stops during the day.
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: legitlee on August 05, 2011, 07:20:06 pm
Here is how a recent 1300k works out. 1323k allows 110hrs at 12k per hour.
Thats 5 days , 4nights.
57 hrs on bike and 12 hrs stopped with bike=69hrs.
Leaves 41hrs faffing and sleeping over 4 nights in B and Bs
That was at 15 mph on the bike and quick stops during the day.

You just had me laughing my head off Faffing and sleeping......Goodness me I cant wait to get started......one more sportive to go then its Audax all the way...... :)
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: hellymedic on August 05, 2011, 07:52:17 pm
Never underestimate the faff factor and allow for it in all your planning.
A beginner is unlikely to clear a control (checkpoint) in less than 40 minutes. (Can you do a motorway service station more quickly? Time it and see!)

Make a mental list of all you wish to achieve at a control before you arrive. Try to do all before you leave as most simple things take longer whilst on the road. eg 'At the next control, I will:

get my card stamped and signed
Fill in any info control details I might have postponed
eat
drink
refill water bottles
pee
sort out clothes and lights for forthcoming dawn/dusk
buy more food to have in my bag

Avoid queueing if possible; if you see a queue do something else till queue subsides.
Title: Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
Post by: Lycra Man on August 05, 2011, 09:26:56 pm
Great advice above from Hellymedic. I speak as a champion faffer!!

My first Audax was a 200. I had already done a couple of 100 mile rides, so it was only a little further.

Since then I've done several 200s, 300s and further. Your proposed schedule of a 100 every weekend is quite a challenge (but then I have domestic obligations).

I am a naturally cautious person, and after building up gradually over 3 years, completed my first SR series this year, witrout too much difficulty......

Take it steady, learn as you go, and there is nothing you cannot achieve.

Good luck

Lycra Man