Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => The Knowledge => Topic started by: Somnolent on November 01, 2011, 09:25:04 am

Title: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Somnolent on November 01, 2011, 09:25:04 am
There are many threads about "can't get such & such a tyre on this or that rim" and the usual advice includes a link to that Spa video, use of talc etc. etc.  but I think it's common experience that certain rims are harder to fit tyres to than others - I've always assumed because very slightly bigger overall diameter.   Similarly certain tyres (when new) can be more difficult than others, again probably because of being very slightly "undersize".

So I thought we should build our own database or ranking system of both tyres and rims and keep it as "sticky" ?    If nothing else it will help us avoid particularly "difficult" combinations.

To keep enlarging this database we need COMPARISONS
If you tell me that tyre A on rim X was a right bastard or that even your 86 year old granny could install tyre B on rim Y without levers I have no way of placing either Tyre or Rim in the ranking, and your post will be ignored.
The ideal information is in the format:   For a given rim X, tyre A was a lot/slightly harder to fit than tyre B
or Tyre A was easier to fit on rim X than it was on rim Y
Or - if you think the order of the existing items is wrong... tell me and I will move stuff up or down.


Moderator's note:
Please post comments about the subject that can't be used for the list to: Difficulty in installing tyres? Chat (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=93194.25)
Posts that shouldn't be in this thread may get moved or deleted.



700c Rims
Smallest Diameter to Largest
(= easiest to fit tyres to at the top of the list )
Rigida Flyer
Ryde Racer
Mavic Ksyrium
Mavic Open Sport
Mavic Open Pro
Mavic MA2
DT Swiss RR1.1 /RR465
Bontrager Race X-Lite
Ambrosio Excellence
H+SON Archetype
Rigida Chrina
Nisi Mixer
Campagnolo Shamal
Fulcrum 5
Fulcrum 7
Campagnolo Proton
Campagnolo Vento
Exal XR2

700c Tyres (New condition)
Largest Diameter to Smallest
(= easiest to fit at the top of the list )
Vredestein Fortezza
Vittoria Open Corsa 23
Panaracer Pasela
Specialized All-Condition Armadillos
Schwalbe Stelvio Folder
Vittoria Rubino Pro
Michelin Pro Race 3
Michelin Krylion 23
Michelin Krylion 25c
Bontrager Hardcase Racelight 28
Bontrager Hardcase Racelight Rigid 23/25
Continental Triathlon
Schwalbe Durano
Schwalbe One Tubeless
Marathon Supreme 32c
Vittorio Rubino
Vittorio Rubino Rigid
Vittoria Zaffiro
Michelin Pro4 Grip V2
Schwalbe Durano +
Schwalbe Marathon
Schwalbe Marathon +
Vittorio Rubino Slick
Continental Gatorskins
Continental GP 4 Seasons
Continental Super Sports
Continental Gran Sport 25
Schwalbe Big Apple (48c)
Contnental Gran Sport 25 Extra

Anyone care to add to the list / change above order ?
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: tiermat on November 01, 2011, 09:44:45 am
That list might be a bit simplistic, at least from my viewpoint, for instance you need to take into account different width of tyres.

FWIW the biggest bitch tyres I have ever found (in a fitting sense) are Schwalbe Big Apple (700C x 48mm).  If you think Marathons and +s are difficult to fix, spend an afternoon trying to fit one of these.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: bobb on November 01, 2011, 09:54:51 am
The hardest combination in my experience is Michelin Pro Race 2s (23mm) on Campagnolo Proton rims. Utter b*stards to get on and off. I think it's the rims rather than the tyres as they seem OK on other rims....
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: marcusjb on November 01, 2011, 10:01:04 am
Campag wheels, in general, seem to be the hardest to get tyres onto in my experiences.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: mattc on November 01, 2011, 10:01:46 am
The hardest combination in my experience is Michelin Pro Race 2s (23mm) on Campagnolo Proton rims. Utter b*stards to get on and off. I think it's the rims rather than the tyres as they seem OK on other rims....
I 2nd this nomination of Protons for the bottom of the rim list. My old campag 36h wheels ("Mexico"?) are fine.
(I'll also 2nd Gatorskins as near the tight end of the tyre list.)

Michelin Pro race 2s &3s are well above middle.


tiermat makes a good point, but it's all good. I get the feeling the OP was focusing on 23/25mm tyres [the most common on 700c rims]. Do people even have problems with 26".

So sticking
Big Apple (40mm)
at the bottom seems perfectly sensible.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: tiermat on November 01, 2011, 10:06:32 am
I have always found Shimano rims relatively easy to fit tyres to, but have mainly used Conti (Attack/Force, GP4S and GP4000) tyres on them.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Biggsy on November 01, 2011, 10:08:34 am
Kidjambo, our Michelin man, made this observation (paraphrasing): French tyres are good on French rims, and Italian tyres are good on Italian rims.  "Good" here means not very loose as well as not very tight.  "Italian" or "French" here means where the company is based, rather than where the product is actually made.

I like 'em loose though, as long as not so loose that they blow off, so I use Italian tyres on French rims.

An older version of Vittoria Open Corsa 23 is at the very top of the easy-fitting-but-stays-on-an-Open-Pro list.  Later versions are still easy to fit, as is Vittoria Rubino Pro 25 too.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on November 01, 2011, 10:18:14 am
The hardest combination in my experience is Michelin Pro Race 2s (23mm) on Campagnolo Proton rims. Utter b*stards to get on and off. I think it's the rims rather than the tyres as they seem OK on other rims....
I 2nd this nomination of Protons for the bottom of the rim list. My old campag 36h wheels ("Mexico"?) are fine.
(I'll also 2nd Gatorskins as near the tight end of the tyre list.)

Michelin Pro race 2s &3s are well above middle.


tiermat makes a good point, but it's all good. I get the feeling the OP was focusing on 23/25mm tyres [the most common on 700c rims]. Do people even have problems with 26".
Continental Sport Contact are difficult to fit to WTB rims.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Wowbagger on November 01, 2011, 10:30:13 am
The hardest job I ever had was fitting Continentals (can't remember precise brand/width) to my son-in-law's Dawes Galaxy (again, can't remember the precise rims). Broke a tyre lever getting them off, and almost depleted my available supply of expletives getting them back on again.
One problem I've experienced with the big, fat tyres I fit to the Thorn is that it's quite hard to get started. A second pair of hands, holding the tyre bead onto the rim, really helps. Once more than half the tyre is done, it holds itself in place, but otherwise you end up chasing your tail for quite a while.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Domestique on November 01, 2011, 10:35:30 am
Getting difficult tyres on the toestrap or two thing is good.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Rhys W on November 01, 2011, 11:27:07 am
This doesn't take into account manufacturing tolerances as the extrusion mould for the rim wears - towards the end of it's life the rim's cross section will be larger than that from a fresh mould. Then you have similar variation in tyre beads...

I've always found exceptions to these "rules". I recently bought a pair of Campagnolo Ventos from a clubmate and I was dreading trying to get Gatorskins on them, but they slipped on without putting up any kind of fight.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Somnolent on November 01, 2011, 11:48:58 am
I don't really expect we can ever generate a ranking that everyone will agree on .... certainly no hard and fast "rules".   And as Rhys suggests manufacturing tolerances can change over time.

Despite that I think some kind of collected knowledge base might be "a good thing".   If we pool everyone's experience then hopefully we'll get to something approaching consensus.

For the moment I'm just thinking about 700c - in all widths, although I too have had "issues" with fitting 26" Conti Sport Contact to a friend's commuter.

I've added the comments received so far, (and a few more dredged from the memory banks)  to the OP.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Chris S on November 01, 2011, 12:06:47 pm
I may contribute more to this thread after the evening I have planned, wrangling Marathon Plus 32s onto a couple of tandem wheels. I have everything ready:

1. Beer
2. Zip ties
3. Plasters
4. Temporary suspension of The Swear Box
5. Beer
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: andrew w on November 01, 2011, 01:12:03 pm
Just to add to the knowledge base, I've always found Vredestein Fortezza (700 x23) very easy to get on to Mavic Open Pros or on to Bontrager Race X-Lite.

I've also found Conti GP 4 Seasons (25c) a pig to fit onto Open Pros.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: mattc on November 01, 2011, 01:16:07 pm
Despite that I think some kind of collected knowledge base might be "a good thing".   If we pool everyone's experience then hopefully we'll get to something approaching consensus.

Agreed.

(And perhaps the 26"ers could start another thread? I've never had a problem with 26" tyres - although I only use 1.75"+ - so I shan't be doing it!)
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: sletti on November 01, 2011, 03:57:11 pm
Vittoria Zaffiro tyres are the work of Satan.  Maybe not so much a diameter issue as a lack of flexibilty in the carcass but an absolute bastard none the less.

And in the good old days, getting anything onto a Nisi Mixer rim. I invented two new word then; twunt and fugger because the usual language seemed somehow inadequate.

I think poorly fitting tyres are probably more stressful than anything else for the home mechanic.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on November 01, 2011, 04:14:04 pm
If you think those are hard, try some Durano plus onto the same rim.

I could fit zaffiro pro slicks to my chrina rim without levers.

The durano plus took 2 cable ties and 2 levers to get it on.  Plus swearing and a strained and blistered thumb.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Somnolent on November 01, 2011, 04:20:37 pm
I keep adding the "new entries" to the OP, but increasingly difficult to know exactly where in the ranking to put them (unless of course people are kind enough to provide comparisons with ones that are already there.

So - please check back and don't hesitate to suggest moving things up or down.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Kim on November 01, 2011, 04:31:02 pm
I think the only way this is going to work, beyond a collection of known-good and known-bad combinations, is if we get everyone together with an assortment of wheels and tyres and try all the combinations, in the style of the now legendary light testing session.

I suspect the effort would be better spent doing some more light testing.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: vorsprung on November 01, 2011, 04:34:27 pm
Since I've discovered the shoe trick, levering the outside of the tyre with your shoe, I've not had any extended swearing sessions with any tyre/rim.

I used to
1) have a problem fitting a tyre to a rim
2) use a tyre lever to get it on
3) get the tyre on
4) pump it up only to find a pinch flat caused by 2)

I've repeated steps 2 to 4 about five times on one tyre, can't remember what.  This doesn't happen now because I don't use tyre levers for fitting
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on November 01, 2011, 04:38:36 pm
Panaracer Paselas

Put them above the Rubino Pro. they might even be the easiest of all, but I can compare them to the Rubino pro
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Kim on November 01, 2011, 04:41:49 pm
I really must make a proper effort to work out how to do the shoe trick at some point.  And then teach it to barakta.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Bledlow on November 01, 2011, 04:47:38 pm
I've not found Gatorskins particularly hard, but I've only put them on Mavic rims - old MA2s, Open Pros, & whatever my old Roberts had (I can't remember - Woofage, what are they?).

The Continental Super Sport was a right bugger, though. I was close to weeping once after a long solitary roadside battle to get a 25mm Super Sport onto the same MA2 rim that I later thought a Gatorskin was a doddle (comparatively) to get on & off of. Bruises, grazes, etc. I've broken tyre levers on them.

I must admit to owning & using a VAR tyre tool nowadays, bought because of past troubles. It is wonderful.

MTB tyres are mostly a piece of piss, but beware road slicks. I have a pair of old Michelin 26 x 1.5" tyres which will never again go on my MTB, because I can't face the pain. Mrs B's rims are easier, but they're still a nightmare. Her current Conti Double Fighters (26 x 1.95) slip on both her Bontrager & my rims easy as something well lubricated & stretchy, as do her old Conti Mountain Kings (26 x 2.2). In fact, I think the Mountain Kings are a little loose.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Somnolent on November 01, 2011, 04:51:41 pm
I'm not familiar with the "shoe trick"...

Care to enlighten us Vorsprung ?
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Somnolent on November 01, 2011, 05:04:36 pm
I think the only way this is going to work, beyond a collection of known-good and known-bad combinations, is if we get everyone together with an assortment of wheels and tyres and try all the combinations, in the style of the now legendary light testing session.

I suspect the effort would be better spent doing some more light testing.

More light testing would be great, but the point here is much more along the lines of...for a future reader of this thread..... I've got a rim that's thought to be at the "harder end" of the scale.... therefore I might be wise to choose (if I have a choice) a tyre at the "easier" end of the scale.

Of course if KidJambo would sponsor some entirely independent and unbiased testing.... ;D   
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: bobb on November 01, 2011, 05:13:43 pm
I must admit to owning & using a VAR tyre tool nowadays, bought because of past troubles. It is wonderful.

Indeed they are excellent and make absolute b*stard tyre/rim combos merely "A bit of a pain".

Soma steel core levers are marketed as "Probably the best tire lever ever made!" and "Virtually unbreakable!". Well I broke one on my PR2/Proton combo mentioned on page one!!

Anyway.... going slightly OT...
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Rhys W on November 01, 2011, 05:48:35 pm
I'm not familiar with the "shoe trick"...

Care to enlighten us Vorsprung ?

The Shoe Trick. (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=28167.msg511847#msg511847)
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: mattc on November 01, 2011, 05:52:59 pm
I think the only way this is going to work, beyond a collection of known-good and known-bad combinations, is if we get everyone together with an assortment of wheels and tyres and try all the combinations, in the style of the now legendary light testing session.

I suspect the effort would be better spent doing some more light testing.
... or spent posting on a lighting thread?  ::-)
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Somnolent on November 02, 2011, 10:33:00 am
I've read that Fulcrums can be difficult.... anyone any ideas where to put them in the scale of things?
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Jurek on November 02, 2011, 10:41:36 am
I've read that Fulcrums can be difficult.... anyone any ideas where to put them in the scale of things?

There's a forum member (called Pippa) who's Fulcrums were discarded after not many thousands of miles and replaced with Ksyriums for the sole reason of them being obstinate b@st@rds when it came to tyre changing.

Incidentally, Ksyriums + Specialized all condition armadillos = on and off without any tools  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: sletti on November 02, 2011, 10:50:41 am
Schwalbe Stelvio are a piece of piss on Easton Circuit wheels :thumbsup:

(shame I bought the wrong sort of innertube this morning. Ended up with a 12 mile ride and a three mile walk inot work; Doh!)
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Bledlow on November 02, 2011, 03:12:11 pm
I've read that Fulcrums can be difficult.... anyone any ideas where to put them in the scale of things?
Under the levers?

I'm sure there's a coat here somewhere . .
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: sbseven on November 02, 2011, 05:17:11 pm
For the rim/tyre combinations (23c) I've used in the last few years:

I've not noticed any difference between Open Pro rims (that I used to use) and DT Swiss rims - RR1.1/RR465 (that I tend to use now).

Michelin Pro Race 3s are pretty easy once the tyre has stretched a bit. Michelin Krylions (23c) are a bit harder than PR3s to put on when new, but again fine once stretched. Vredstein Fortezza Tricomps are even easier than the Michelins. I can mend a puncture on stretched Tricomps without any tools!

I've never have any issues with any of these combinations...
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: citoyen on November 10, 2011, 12:33:24 pm
I must admit to owning & using a VAR tyre tool nowadays, bought because of past troubles. It is wonderful.

Indeed they are excellent and make absolute b*stard tyre/rim combos merely "A bit of a pain".

I've snapped a VAR lever trying to get a Marathon Plus off a Brompton wheel.  :-\

d.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: citoyen on November 10, 2011, 12:38:53 pm
Marathon Supreme 32C on Rigida Chrina is easily get-on-and-offable. Comes off easily with levers, goes back on easily with bare hands.

Marathon Supreme 32C on Mavic Open Pro is even easier - levers not required.

Durano Plus 25C on same rims slightly harder work but comfortably manageable.

d.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: mattc on November 10, 2011, 12:39:28 pm
If I knew I had a particularly reluctant combination, I'd carry an old-fashioned metal lever for removal. The VAR isn't particularly strong (which saves space/weight, I guess!) - it's 'strength' is in refitting the tyre without risking tube damage.

My VAR often bends alarmingly when refitting, so there is probably a limit to what you can do with one - not found it yet <crosses fingers>.

(Oh, and Marathon PLuses need removing at the roadside so infrequently, I'd say it's no big deal.)
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: citoyen on November 10, 2011, 12:59:40 pm
My VAR often bends alarmingly when refitting, so there is probably a limit to what you can do with one - not found it yet <crosses fingers>.

Yes - mine did bend quite a long way before it snapped. I reckon you're right about metal levers. I'm reluctant to use them because of their potential for rim damage but sometimes needs must.

Quote
(Oh, and Marathon PLuses need removing at the roadside so infrequently, I'd say it's no big deal.)

True. The other good thing about the Brompton is that you can usually bail out when you get a puncture and hop on a bus, and leave wrestling with the tyre for when you get home.

RogerZ has previously suggested the standard rim tape on Brompton wheels is part of the problem, which seems very plausible, so I really ought to get round to replacing it.

d.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Bledlow on November 11, 2011, 12:04:50 am
I must admit to owning & using a VAR tyre tool nowadays, bought because of past troubles. It is wonderful.

Indeed they are excellent and make absolute b*stard tyre/rim combos merely "A bit of a pain".

I've snapped a VAR lever trying to get a Marathon Plus off a Brompton wheel.  :-\

d.
Like Matt, I save mine for putting recalcitrant tyres back on. I wouldn't trust it to get a very tough tyre off. It does bend rather alarmingly at times. I've had it a very long time, though, & used it enough that I don't think it owes me anything. It's light, so lugging it around for that one purpose is no big deal.

For removing tyres I carry a couple of ordinary plastic levers, which are usually plenty, plus one very robust metal lever just in case.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Biggsy on November 11, 2011, 09:29:21 am
Shame that Specialized Pry Babies have been discontinued.  These wonderfully-named levers help you to manipulate tyres without resorting to brute force alone.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Bledlow on January 02, 2012, 09:09:15 pm
As reported elsewhere (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=55314.15), Rigida Chrinas are harder to get tyres on & off than Mavic Open Pros.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: vorsprung on June 10, 2012, 09:15:08 pm
Exal LX17 and Michelin Optimum front are moderately difficult

Although who else will be mating this obscure 17mm rim with an out of production tyre I don't know  ;D
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Bledlow on June 10, 2012, 11:33:16 pm
I've not found Gatorskins particularly hard, but I've only put them on Mavic rims - old MA2s, Open Pros, & whatever my old Roberts had (I can't remember - Woofage, what are they?).
I've since taken a 23mm Gatorskin off a Rigida rim (model unknown), as bought secondhand in this parish, & put a 28mm on. Not the easiest tyre change I've ever done, but nothing to write home about.

FYI, I'm crap at changing tyres, so if I say it's easy it's very very easy.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Gus on June 11, 2012, 07:34:13 am
Vredestein Fiammante 23 mm on Mavic open pro rims was no problem fitting without tools.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: MacB on June 11, 2012, 09:21:19 am
I had some trouble early on with M+ until I refined my technique which is very similar to the Spa video but I haven't needed cable ties etc. All I do differently now is let the air out of the tube before I try to get the final bit of the tyre on. I find this allows me to pich the tyre into the well better on the opposite side. Hold that in place against my stomach and then slide my hands round to the far side pinching in the tyre as I go. On all my current rims that works to allow me to just lside the remainder of the tyre on by thumb. This covers M+, Marathon, M Supreme, Halo Twin Rail, Continental Tour, Marathon Winter, Schwalbe Blizzard and Conti GP Grand Prix.

As for rims:-

Giant IOU own brand 622-13 - all tyres used went on fine by hand - M+ in 700x28/32/35, M Winter 700x35, Schwalbe Blizzard 700x23

Alex 622-17 & 622-18 rims - various sizes on Conti and Marathon went on fine by hand, slightly easier than the narrower Giant rims

Mavic A719 622-19 rims - everything from 700x28 to 700x40 went on well by hand easier again than the rims above

Mavic TN719 622-19 disc only rims - about the same as the A719 but have used tyres from 700x28 to 700x56(29x2.2) on these with no problems

Rigida Sputnik 622-19 rim - I found these really tough with any tyre I tried to fit to them, the only rim that I've had to resort to a lever to get the tyre on...I don't have any of these rims anymore
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Biggsy on June 11, 2012, 11:07:52 am
I had some trouble early on with M+ until I refined my technique which is very similar to the Spa video but I haven't needed cable ties etc. All I do differently now is let the air out of the tube before I try to get the final bit of the tyre on. I find this allows me to pich the tyre into the well better on the opposite side. Hold that in place against my stomach and then slide my hands round to the far side pinching in the tyre as I go. On all my current rims that works to allow me to just lside the remainder of the tyre on by thumb. This covers M+, Marathon, M Supreme, Halo Twin Rail, Continental Tour, Marathon Winter, Schwalbe Blizzard and Conti GP Grand Prix.

This technique alone isn't enough for me with 28mm M+ tyres on MA3 and A719 rims, and 35mm M+ on MA2 and Vuelta Tempest rims.  I need cable ties as well.  At least that is when the tyres are new.  They may be easier the second time after the beads have stretched.  There hasn't been a second time for me yet.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: MacB on June 11, 2012, 02:32:55 pm
I had some trouble early on with M+ until I refined my technique which is very similar to the Spa video but I haven't needed cable ties etc. All I do differently now is let the air out of the tube before I try to get the final bit of the tyre on. I find this allows me to pich the tyre into the well better on the opposite side. Hold that in place against my stomach and then slide my hands round to the far side pinching in the tyre as I go. On all my current rims that works to allow me to just lside the remainder of the tyre on by thumb. This covers M+, Marathon, M Supreme, Halo Twin Rail, Continental Tour, Marathon Winter, Schwalbe Blizzard and Conti GP Grand Prix.

This technique alone isn't enough for me with 28mm M+ tyres on MA3 and A719 rims, and 35mm M+ on MA2 and Vuelta Tempest rims.  I need cable ties as well.  At least that is when the tyres are new.  They may be easier the second time after the beads have stretched.  There hasn't been a second time for me yet.

I totally accept certain rim/tyre combos aren't going to play nice which is why I wouldn't buy the Sputniks again as I found they didn't play nice with any of my tyres.

I did have some 28mm M+ that went on A719 rims with this method but they had been on other rims beforehand. So I can well believe that new they may require extra measures.

I was just chucking in my limited experiences to add to the data pool, though I realise that as I use wider rims and tyres exclusively these days I probably won't experience some of the more severe trials and tribulations.  ;D
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Canardly on June 11, 2012, 09:00:30 pm
Marathon supreme folders were a joy to install. Alex rims. Thumbs only.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Gus on June 22, 2012, 03:51:43 pm
schwalbe Marathon Supreme 700C x 32mm fitted on Mavic Open Pro and Mavic CXP33 today.
No need for tools, in fact one of the easiest tyres I've tried to fit.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Biggsy on August 04, 2012, 07:01:03 pm
700c Rims
Smallest Diameter to Largest
(= easiest to fit tyres to at the top of the list )
Mavic Ksyrium
Mavic MA2
Mavic Open Pro
[...]

I'd put Open Pro above MA2.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Valiant on August 04, 2012, 08:19:17 pm
Worst combo: 20" Velocity Aero Rims with Vredestein Perfect Moiree

Bent/broke 2x Park Tools levers, 1x Tacx and a Speedlever trying to get them off the rim.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: TimO on September 17, 2012, 12:36:02 am
Generally I've found wire beaded tyres to be more of a pain to fit than kevlar beaded folding tyres.

I wish I remembered some of the combinations that have proved the most difficult to deal with.  There was a combination a few FNRttCs ago, that we had to fit multiple times, and took three of us, using a VAR lever and two tyre levers to get on.  Inevitably on at least one occasion we ended up putting a snake bite into the inner tube when putting it back on.  I got better at removing it (I think we had to do that five times before we gave up), but we never really sorted out how to get it on efficiently, we just barely managed.  I've very rarely had problems fitting tyres on, I think this was only the second occasion on a FNRttC when I've had significant problems, so I'm reasonably practised at removing and replacing tyres.  After an hour or so, we gave in, and left the guy with the bike waiting for a Taxi that he'd arranged to come and pick him up.

I forget exactly who I was with, but Adrian did join us after the first couple of repairs, and whilst that gave someone else to help turn the air blue, he didn't have any more success than the two of us TECing at that point had previously had.

It was a narrow Conti racing tyre, but I don't know what the rim was, or the exact Conti tyre.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: andrew_s on September 17, 2012, 10:34:25 am
This doesn't take into account manufacturing tolerances as the extrusion mould for the rim wears - towards the end of it's life the rim's cross section will be larger than that from a fresh mould. Then you have similar variation in tyre beads...

I've always found exceptions to these "rules". I recently bought a pair of Campagnolo Ventos from a clubmate and I was dreading trying to get Gatorskins on them, but they slipped on without putting up any kind of fight.
Agreed.
Certainly tyres vary quite a bit.

I've had Conti GP 4 Seasons on Open Pro vary between almost impossible (6 months stretching at 160psi before I dared take it out on the road, and even then it was metal levers and VAR) and so loose the tyre would fall off the rim if only one bead was fitted.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Bledlow on September 17, 2012, 02:01:41 pm
700c Rims
Smallest Diameter to Largest
(= easiest to fit tyres to at the top of the list )
Mavic Ksyrium
Mavic MA2
Mavic Open Pro
[...]

I'd put Open Pro above MA2.
I think I probably would as well, based on a sample size of one pair of each type & fitting the same tyre type on both sets.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
Post by: Somnolent on September 17, 2012, 04:13:25 pm

I'd put Open Pro above MA2.
I think I probably would as well, based on a sample size of one pair of each type & fitting the same tyre type on both sets.

OP amended accordingly
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Somnolent on October 24, 2012, 10:44:09 am
Folks
Please can we keep on-thread.
I have amended the title and added a paragraph in the OP to clarify.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Bianchi Boy on February 04, 2013, 07:13:15 am
Cam across this just after I posted on another thread about Exal XR2. I split a Vredstein Tricomp and could only get a Bontrager hardcase (folding) on the rim. I had an accident and dented the rim and replaced it with and OP.

In all my years of cycling this was the only rim I cold not get a tyre on and off. I even managed Gatorskin wire bead with no tools. Michelins were not even close. Like about 9" of bean unable to fit in.

These rims are still sold by Spa so I guess someone must be able to fit a tyre on these.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: PhilipR on October 09, 2013, 05:07:31 am
In fitting Continental GatorSkins 28C to my various 700C rims I have this feedback.

Easy to fit by hands only, no tools
Mavic A719
Velocity Areohead
Velocity Areohead OC

Extremely hard to fit, bending plastic tools, just too hard
Ambosia Super Elite
Campaynolo Omega Strada Hardbox
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: The French Tandem on October 09, 2013, 09:36:32 am
Continental GatorSkins  25c and 28c,
Continental Gator HardShells 25c and 28c,

All are very easy to fit on Velocity Dyad, and Mavic A719.
I have only tried the steel wired versions of these tyres. I don't know about the folding versions.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Bledlow on October 09, 2013, 12:43:42 pm
Gatorskin 25 - fine on Mavic Open Pro.
Gatorskin 28 - fine on MA2 & anonymous deep section Rigida.

Not conspicuously easy, but generally not hard. Was hard taking a 28 off an MA2 after two years without a puncture, but once off went back on easily enough.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Bledlow on May 31, 2014, 03:43:43 pm
I'll modify this.

A fairly new Gatorskin 28 was a bitch to get off & on of that Mavic MA2 today. IIRC it hadn't moved since being installed.

An older ditto was piss-easy getting on & off the same anonymous Rigida. Mrs B did it unaided, getting it back on with no tools. She needed the VAR & a fight to get a tyre on the MA2.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 04, 2014, 08:22:05 pm
On a Rigida Ultimate Power rim:
Michelin World Tour - on without tools, off with one lever flip
Continental Touring 1000 - extremely easy but not quite as easy as MWT
Vittoria Randonneur - easy but needs lever to get last bit on
Chen Shin, model forgotten - horrible

Shame the Michelin WT is not a particularly good tyre in other respects.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: valkyrie on June 05, 2014, 07:48:22 pm
GP4000s tyres go on to Campag Eurus wheels just as easily as going on to Open Pros. I think the Campag wheels that don't need rim tape 'cos they don't have spoke holes are much easier than the ones with rim tape.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: sojournermike on June 21, 2014, 02:44:01 pm
I think every tyre is probably difficult on Exal XR2 rims. I've put Vittoria Open Corsage EVO SC on and they were very painful. Then even worse to remove.

Replaced with some older Michelin Lithions,  which are better, but still awkward and hard to get off to fix a leak.

Mike
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Somnolent on June 28, 2014, 12:29:36 pm
Have added the Exal XR2 to bottom of the list of rims in the OP as being the hardest of all (until someone tells me different)

Based on previously supplied information I've always shied away from anything Continental as being, potentially, too much of a ball-ache to deal with on the roadside at o'dark thirty on a long audax.... but I'm gettiing mixed messages now.
The bike shop in Abergavenny where I was obliged to buy a tyre on a recent 600 said they thought that in general they were better toleranced (easier to fit) than previously.
Certainly the GP 4 Seasons I've just taken off an Ambrosio Excellence rim (having been in place only a week) presented no difficulty for a single plastic lever.
With two side-wall failures on Duranos in under a week, and disappointment with the longevity of the Pro4 Endurance, I may have to look at Contis again.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on November 06, 2014, 11:22:54 am
Anyone fitted tyres to or removed them from Mavic Open Sports?
Yes - they are easy compared to chrina
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Bledlow on November 06, 2014, 11:24:04 am
Ta.

I was hoping they'd be similar to the Open Pro.

Sounds as if they are.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Bledlow on December 31, 2014, 03:14:09 pm
Mavic Open Sport: old Gatorskin 28 went on, came off, went on (Mrs B), came off (Mrs B) easily. Mrs B managed to get it back on with thumbs. She says it wasn't easy, but since it went on pretty quickly, the only other non-MTB wheel she's not needed a tool for is her Rigida-unknown-model old rear wheel, & she's not complaining that her thumbs hurt, I'd say it was easy.

I'd put that Open Sport as probably a little easier than my Open Pros.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Bledlow on January 05, 2015, 08:35:49 pm
I think I have identified the nameless Rigida rim on Mrs B's old rear wheel. I believe it is a Rigida Flyer, a cheap rim about the same weight as a Mavic Open Sport. The cross-section on the Ryde site looks right, & the measurements, eyelets or lack of, etc. all match.

It's piss-easy to get tyres on & off of. Much easier to get Gatorskins on & off of than a Mavic Open Pro or Open Sport. Mrs B can do it easily.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: jhob on January 09, 2015, 08:20:29 am
Marathon Plus onto a brompton 16" - absolute bitch!  At least the damn things don't puncture too often so they don't need to come on and off too regularly.

Rubino pro 25s I've found easy to fit onto shimano r500 rims, on the other hand vittoria randonneur 28s were difficult.  Although the newer sets of randonneaurs I've had have been a bit easier than the older versions.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on March 27, 2015, 07:10:35 pm
Today I spent over an hour struggling - and failing - to fit two different tyres on a new Rigida Chrina (700c, 13mm width). Even the first bead was a struggle. The first tyre was a Continental Ultrasports (a tyre I don't particularly like, but I had a pair hanging round in the bike shed cupboard) - its twin had gone on an old Chrina ok, but on the new rim, it wouldn't go. Then I remembered I had a GP 4 Seasons folding. I thought it might be easier - but no difference. I suppose I should try a Michelin, on the grounds of nationality of millimetres, but I don't have one. So I took it back to the shop where I got the rim (and built the wheel) and they said they'd have a go, and they had experienced quality control problems with Rigida recently. So perhaps it's best to avoid this make for a while.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: mzjo on March 27, 2015, 07:24:41 pm
Marathon Plus onto a brompton 16" - absolute bitch!  At least the damn things don't puncture too often so they don't need to come on and off too regularly.

Rubino pro 25s I've found easy to fit onto shimano r500 rims, on the other hand vittoria randonneur 28s were difficult.  Although the newer sets of randonneaurs I've had have been a bit easier than the older versions.

26"x1.5 Vittoria Randonneurs (rigid bead version) on ZAC 2000 rims. I never got them to seat properly, one part of the bead was always in the well of the rim. Pasela TG 1.5 on the same rim no problem.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Bledlow on March 28, 2015, 08:50:15 pm
I think I have identified the nameless Rigida rim on Mrs B's old rear wheel. I believe it is a Rigida Flyer, a cheap rim about the same weight as a Mavic Open Sport. The cross-section on the Ryde site looks right, & the measurements, eyelets or lack of, etc. all match.

It's piss-easy to get tyres on & off of. Much easier to get Gatorskins on & off of than a Mavic Open Pro or Open Sport. Mrs B can do it easily.
Confirmed that it is a Rigida Flyer. I found "Rigida F" engraved (or stamped) lightly on it, where the brakes won't touch.

"Easily" in this context means without VAR tool help. It's even easier with a Panaracer Pasela PT (or TG - AFAIK the difference isn't significant), her now preferred tyre.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on April 01, 2015, 08:56:31 pm
Today I managed to fit a Vittoria Rubino Pro to the same Chrina rim. I thought it was going to be another impossible task, like the Continentals, as it needed a tyre lever to fit the first bead  :o but in the end it all went on. Using Decathlon yellow tyre levers, which might be a good recommendation for them. I still think there's something not quite right with the rim though, as I've never struggled with the Continentals before.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: citoyen on April 03, 2015, 12:37:26 am
Fitting a Vittoria Open Pave 27c clincher on a Vision Team rim resulted in much sweat and tears and one knackered tube this afternoon.

Previously a Conti GP4000S 25c went on the same wheel with ease.

Also the OPs felt incredibly harsh at the minimum recommended pressure of 100psi. I had to stop to let some air out on my way home this evening, much better after that.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Bledlow on September 17, 2015, 01:28:28 pm
Is this list no longer updated? I've reported a couple of additional rims which haven't been added, & reported on tyres.

NB. The Rigida/Ryde Flyer (very easy rim, much easier than Mavic Open Pro or Open Sport, both of which I've found noticeably easier than the old Mavic MA2) is now called the Racer.

I'm surprised how tight Gatorskins are rated as. Nowhere near that bad in my estimation. Mrs B, who freely admits that she's lousy at fitting & removing tyres, has put 'em on Mavic Open Sports with thumbs, & she usually uses a VAR tool for everything.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Biggsy on September 17, 2015, 05:12:02 pm
Reminder to everyone:

To keep enlarging this database we need COMPARISONS.
If you tell me that tyre A on rim X was a right bastard or that even your 86 year old granny could install tyre B on rim Y without levers I have no way of placing either Tyre or Rim in the ranking, and your post will be ignored.
The ideal information is in the format:   For a given rim X, tyre A was a lot/slightly harder to fit than tyre B
or Tyre A was easier to fit on rim X than it was on rim Y
Or - if you think the order of the existing items is wrong... tell me and I will move stuff up or down.


I will be moving some other messages to another thread.

Is this list no longer updated? I've reported a couple of additional rims which haven't been added, & reported on tyres.

The OP has added your latest info.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Bledlow on September 17, 2015, 05:22:52 pm
Indeed. Thanks for pointing it out, Biggsy, & thanks for doing it, Somnolent.

One small addition - Mavic Open Sport. I find this about the same as Mavic Open Pro. Tried it with the same tyres. If I had to choose between them, I'd put it slightly easier, but any difference is small enough that I'm not sure about that.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Biggsy on September 17, 2015, 06:04:23 pm
The bulk of the messages that Somnolent can't use for the list now moved to: Difficulty in installing tyres? Chat (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=93194.25)

Please post there when not mentioning direct comparisons for the list.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Somnolent on September 18, 2015, 09:39:52 am
One small addition - Mavic Open Sport. I find this about the same as Mavic Open Pro. Tried it with the same tyres. If I had to choose between them, I'd put it slightly easier, but any difference is small enough that I'm not sure about that.

Open Sport added.
I'm not going to stress about the exact position in the list.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: jamesld8 on October 15, 2015, 07:17:26 pm
Add to / agree with your rankings:

Exal XR2 with Conti Grand Sport, very difficult indeed could just after much effort get tyre onto rim without levers but a swine to do; two tyre levers required to get tyre off rim

By comparison Open Pro a doodle fit Conti Grand Sport / 4000SII / Vittoria Open Pave 24 , 27  all went on easily and can be removed without tyre levers
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Samuel D on October 16, 2015, 10:41:08 am
I found a 23 mm Michelin Pro4 Grip V2 considerably harder than a 25 mm Schwalbe One to fit on an Exal XR2 rim. The Michelin was downright hard to fit.

The original Michelin Pro4 Grip and the V2 version were of equal difficulty (hard!).
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: ElyDave on December 03, 2015, 06:16:17 pm
Ba$tard GP 4 seasons

Need to be at the top of the list. Always difficult, but I know have a blistered thumb from last nights efforts on exal lx 17 rims :demon:
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Samuel D on February 01, 2016, 07:40:46 pm
Michelin Pro4 Grip V2 on Exal XR2 rim is tighter than a duck’s you-know-what. Nearly peeled my fingers getting them on this time (after a puncture).
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: jamesld8 on March 11, 2016, 08:15:05 pm
With XR2 rims

Schwalbe Lugano 25 mm wire bead was fine little tight to fit two levers remove

Open Pave 27mm similar to above

Conti Grand Sport 25 mm very tight lot force to fit hard remove 2 levers

Conti GS 25mm Extra abandoned trying to fit

Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on March 14, 2016, 08:34:53 pm
I would rank the Campag Shamal as easier to fit than Fulcrums.  Maybe it was just the set of fulcrum rims I had, but I spent a merry morning in Pedal On in Tadley trying to find any tyres that would fit without a major burst of Tourettes.  And that was in the warm and dry and not halfway up Birdlip Hill at 1am with it starting to rain.  Of the Conti tyres i find the Conti Triathlons reasonably amenable- better than the other Conti tyres, and slightly better (on the same Campag rims as Bontrager Hardcases.

The Bontrager Hardcase 28s are marginally easier than the 25s.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Gruby Mits on May 11, 2016, 12:25:09 pm
Mitchelin Pro4 endurance (700x23) the hardest one to date for me!  :demon:  Had to leave them for 24 hours stretched 3/4 on the rim and next day I could fit them with some effort on a shimano ultegra wheel.

schwalbe mondial evo (700x40) non beaded tyre, easier ever  :thumbsup:  Really easy indeed. On a specialized factory wheel (alloy disc double wall 32 spoke holes)

I have "soft" hands and not a great bike mechanic, just to put it in context.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: inappropriate_bike on July 03, 2016, 09:44:10 am
On Hunt 4 Season Disc Rims:

Hutchinson Sector 28s were impossible to (re-)fit, even with CO2.

Schwalbe Pro One went on using a cheap track pump first time without messing around with soap and water or any sealant-on-the-bead tricks.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: NeilH on August 27, 2016, 10:29:07 pm
On DT Swiss RR440 rims: I found Michelin Pro4 Endurance V2 substantially easier to fit than Continental GP 4 Seasons.

I also thing that the GP 4 Seasons were marginally easier than Continental Gatorskins (but it's a while since I had the Gatorskins, so I may be misremembering).
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: alecstilleyedye on August 30, 2016, 08:52:25 pm
i use vittoria exclusively.

rubino pro: easy enough with both shimano rs11/561 wheelsets, and campag vento reaction wheelset
rubino: not too bad with shimano 561 wheelset, but could be awkward with others, including cod alex rims and cheapo vuelta zerolite
rubino slick: bought as a budget buy, were an absolute bitch on the 365 wheelset, never again

i've also removed some michelin l-ion 2s easily enough from the campag wheelset; and one was once used in an emergency at the roadside (i carry them as spares on the commute), which was easy enough to stick on the shimano rs11…
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Morat on November 01, 2016, 12:44:58 am
Schwalbe S-One tubeless vs Novatec 30 wheels
2 levers off
Thumbs on

I was pleasantly surprised.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Nonsteeler on February 07, 2017, 07:46:09 am
By far my worst experience is the  700c 28mm Continental SuperSport Plus Road Tyre (basically a slick Marathon Plus) on an Excal LX 17 rim. I gave up on that combo after puncturing 4 tubes.

Still hard but doable (ie with levers and no punctures): Continental SuperSport Plus on a Mavic Open Sport rim.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: asterix on May 07, 2017, 10:47:31 am

CONTINENTAL GATORSKINS onto OPEN PRO rims.


Harder than Marathon Pluses onto one of Spa Cycles touring wheels

And not something I'd want to do, roadside.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Biggsy on May 07, 2017, 11:18:26 am
Dear all, this topic is for rankings only - direct comparisons with the same rims or tyres.  Please delete anything else you've posted here and, if you like, copy it to Difficulty in installing tyres? Chat (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=93194).  Otherwise the OP loses the will to maintain the table.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: trgz on May 29, 2017, 11:02:11 am
I can't rate them per se other than say 'bloody impossible to get them off' but 25mm steel-beaded Gatorskins on a Mavic MA40 required a tyrejack to get them on and, when I broke the same trying to get them off and no amount of tyre levers (plastic and metal) were ever going to work, I resorted to a pair cutters and a Stanley knife to cut the b@stards off - I'll never touch them again.
Panaracer Pasela's (25 and 28mm) work like a charm and can be put on by hand and without levers and only require one to remove them.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: rogerzilla on June 10, 2017, 08:34:15 pm
Schwalbe Marathon Racer on DRC ST19 - very easy indeed, pull off without tyre levers.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Torslanda on June 10, 2017, 08:52:25 pm
Rigida Flyer/Conti Ultra Sport. Absolute bastard!

Hands still hurting 4 hours later...
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Polar Bear on June 10, 2017, 09:01:57 pm
Schwalbe Durano plus 700c x 25:

Folding version onto Rigida Chrina was easy.

Wired version onto Open Pro was even easier.    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Wowbagger on July 27, 2017, 11:26:59 pm
Marathon Plus / Brompton. Utter bastards. I likened it to childbirth. Julian OTP, who has first hand experience of the latter, asked me whether I spent 14 hours putting the said tyres on using only my testicles. Of course, I relied in the affirmative.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Kim on July 27, 2017, 11:59:00 pm
Maybe try some tyre levers next time, then?
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: halhorner on April 28, 2018, 03:55:35 pm
On Kinlin xc-279 700c rim Michelin Pro 4 Service Course were a *lot* easier than Connti GP 4 seasons and also easier than GP 4000 (earlier version). Given these latter 2 are not difficult that should give an idea of how easily the Michelins went on!
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Si S on May 03, 2018, 12:29:02 pm
Rims: Stans Grail.

Tyre: 

28mm Hutchinson Sector 28 - thumbs only fairly easy
30mm Schwalbe G-One tubeless - thumbs only, bit harder than the sectors, easier than a Durano+ on an open pro
35mm Schwalbe G-one tubeless - first one a doddle, pretty much fell on, second one about the same as the sectors.

Worth noting that I don't put my goo through the valve but add using a syringe and hose before I mount the last bit of tyre. I haven't ended up throwing the goo all over myself yet.

Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: bludger on May 18, 2018, 01:48:50 pm
I fitted some wire beaded 28 gatorskins the other night, replacing the Vittoria Zaffiros which came on the roadie.

I can see why many would see them as a bit of a bugger, and I know they have caused many a foul mouthed tirade among cyclists, and they did take me a while to do but that was much in part to me not having fannied around with tyres much and a few schoolboy errors.

What really helped are my superb tyre levers which admirably coped with the beading. Mine are some old b'twin ones my dad gave me, which are much more robust than normal levers that come in kits. Spend money on your levers, they're worth their weight in gold!

Quick note: When I fitted the tyre, I fully inflated the inner tube, then fully deflated, massaged the tyre a bit, and reinflated to make sure the tube was correctly seated. Is this worth doing or did I waste my time?
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: rogerzilla on August 11, 2018, 10:27:53 pm
No particular problem here with Durano Plus Etape folding (as springy and wriggly as Marathon Plus) on the notorious Rigida/Ryde Chrina.  There seem to be good and bad Chrinas; it looks as if they sometimes cut them a mm or so too large before they're rolled and joined.

Since I learned (a) to talc the tube thoroughly* and (b) how to push the bead into the well of the rim, I've not had a problem fitting anything and everything except the M+ on the Brompton comes off without levers, too.  This saves carrying them on rides, which is nice (although you can generally use QR levers in a pinch).

*this does very little to reduce friction when riding (as some believe) but it makes tyres much easier to fit.  Most of the friction between the bead and the rim, preventing you getting the last bit of bead over the edge, is actually friction between the tube and rim.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Kim on August 11, 2018, 10:37:21 pm
I think I've found a new benchmark for bastardly:  Schwalbe Pro One 28-559 on an Alex DV15.

I had to resort to tyre levers to get the *first* bead over the rim.  By the time I'd got down to the last couple of inches of the second one I was well into the bleeding and harsh language stage.  A brief moment of common sense stopped me from continuing on the basis that  a) If I did manage to fit it, there was a non-zero possibility that getting it off again would require scrapping one or the other  and  b) If I rode it and got a puncture I'd be fucked.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: rogerzilla on August 11, 2018, 10:43:09 pm
Some tyre beads stretch nicely after a couple of weeks on the rim at high pressure.  Kevlar beaded tyres especially.  I doubt kevlar creeps much but maybe the beads are braided, like a rope, and the filaments can straighten out somewhat.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Kim on August 11, 2018, 10:49:59 pm
Some tyre beads stretch nicely after a couple of weeks on the rim at high pressure.  Kevlar beaded tyres especially.  I doubt kevlar creeps much but maybe the beads are braided, like a rope, and the filaments can straighten out somewhat.

That's a fair point.  In the end I dug a wheel out of the spares pile (unbranded rim, a bit too wide, retired because of hairline fractures at some of the spoke holes) and it went on that without a fuss.  I should see if being on there for a month or so has helped.

Doesn't really matter though, my plan is to replace the fractured rim with a sensible Mavic one that it's known to fit.


ETA: Actually, I've got a 406 wheel with an inappropriate dynamo hub that was surprisingly difficult with a regular Marathon.  Think that's a DV15 as well.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: vorsprung on August 12, 2018, 10:14:41 am
I think I've found a new benchmark for bastardly:  Schwalbe Pro One 28-559 on an Alex DV15.

I had to resort to tyre levers to get the *first* bead over the rim.  By the time I'd got down to the last couple of inches of the second one I was well into the bleeding and harsh language stage.  A brief moment of common sense stopped me from continuing on the basis that  a) If I did manage to fit it, there was a non-zero possibility that getting it off again would require scrapping one or the other  and  b) If I rode it and got a puncture I'd be fucked.

That might well be a tubeless ready tyre
All tubeless compatible tyres have an insanely tight bead
I think that it is normal to have to use tyre levers and a bead jack to get even the first bead on for this type of tyre
On my tubeless bike when I do the long rides I carry a tyre jack
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Kim on August 12, 2018, 12:53:04 pm
That might well be a tubeless ready tyre
All tubeless compatible tyres have an insanely tight bead
I think that it is normal to have to use tyre levers and a bead jack to get even the first bead on for this type of tyre
On my tubeless bike when I do the long rides I carry a tyre jack

It is (although I'm using them with lightweight inner tubes).

The 28-406 Pro One I have on the front wheel (Kinlin XR240) is a bit tight, but goes on without levers.  Getting it off can be a bit of a struggle, depending on temperature.

The tubeless ready tyres I have on my mountain bike are also stiff, but fittable by hand.  I'm not sure how much of this is down to being tubeless ready, or just from having kevlar beads.  My sensible bikes all have wire-beaded tyres.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Kim on August 12, 2018, 08:30:14 pm
Doesn't really matter though, my plan is to replace the fractured rim with a sensible Mavic one that it's known to fit.

Did the wheel build this afternoon, so I can add:

Schwalbe Pro One 28-559 on Mavic XM117:  It's tight, but it's doable by hand, without resorting to toestraps or harsh language.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: DuncanM on August 22, 2018, 10:50:13 am
Vittoria Corsa Speed +
Difficult but doable on a PlanetX rim (needed tyre levers).
Impossible (couldn't get the first bead on!) on a Roval 45 rim, then again, might be the rim as I broke a Pedros tyre lever getting a Schwalbe Durano off.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: bludger on August 22, 2018, 10:53:06 am
Interesting Duncan I recently fitted some Vittoria Revolutions G+ 28mm to my utility bike's cheapo wheels, it was a bit of work but I didn't need to use the levers.

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TYVITREVG/vittoria-revolution-g-graphene-700c-wired-tyre

Cracking commuter tyres so far, very comfortable while being quick enough for my purposes.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Plug1n on September 24, 2018, 08:34:19 am
Fitted some folding Michelin Power Gravel 35c on Alex XD Lite 700c rims.

Much harder to get on and off than the Conti Contact 32C wired-on that they replaced.  Would have been impossible without levers.

Lovely comfy commute this morning over the rough/gravel sections though :)
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: halhorner on October 14, 2018, 10:05:56 am
Vittorio G+ control 25mm. Went very easily onto Kinlin XC-279 rims, no levers or tricks needed. Lovely tyres too.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: rogerzilla on July 07, 2019, 03:45:10 pm
Vittoria Open Tri 22mm - the hardest I've ever fitted new.  Pushing the last bit of bead over with a wooden spoon might do it for you - it worked for me.  They free up a bit when sitting on the rim, inflated.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Jakob on October 04, 2019, 09:14:04 am
Gatorskin tubulars. I invent several new swearwords every time.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Nightmare-1 on October 23, 2019, 03:12:34 pm
40-406 Schwalbe Marathon "Racers"(wire bead) are harder to fit/remove than either Marathon or Marathon+.
The "M racer" folders are about the same as M or M+.
"Go-bike" 50-406 are a lot easier (fit/remove by hand) than M or M+.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: mzjo on February 29, 2020, 09:02:03 pm
Kenda Kountach 25x622  on Mavic Open Sport rim

It goes on a bit tight but doable (can't remember if I needed a tyre lever just to stretch the second bead onto the rim but it would only have been light assistance if it was). However getting the tread lined up straight defeated me, which made for a very bumpy ride today negating all the advantages of a super light freerunning tyre. I will have another go at taking the bumps tomorrow if I can. This might be why they were being sold so cheaply

update: i fitted my green Kountach onto the Open Sport and just kept pumping with the track pump until i couldn't pump any more. That seated the bead (very slowly). I then didn't back off the pressure - result failure of the valve base. I had to repeat the process today with a new tube. I am thinking of putting some liquid soap in a little container in case I have to repair a puncture on the road, in an audax it could be  a bit of a bxxxr.
I tried fitting the red Kountach that I started with onto a Campag Lambda Strada rim. This is most not advised. It needed a tyre lever to finish - inevitable result, pinch punctures, scrapped one new tube. I am not going back for a second go!





Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Davef on March 01, 2020, 03:15:14 pm
Continental GP5000TL tubeless onto roval rims. Surprised to find them easy, no tools required.


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Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Greenbank on June 23, 2020, 11:25:09 am
Boxfresh GP 4 Season (folding) onto DT Swiss RR465. Not a chance.

Gave up after attempting with two different tyres. Could only get it on with tyre levers (with no tube in, not that stupid) in the hope that would stretch it and it would be possible to put them on with just thumbs afterwards. Nope.

Managed to get an old GP 4 Season (25mm) that I'd taken off an old wheel onto it (with a tube in) with a bit of swearing at the third attempt (and just thumbs).
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: valkyrie on October 05, 2020, 10:59:49 pm
Continental GP5000TL on to Hope 20Five rims. My first go at fitting a tubeless tyre on a tubeless rim, but after 2 hours in the garage with them I've given up for the day. Can't get the second side on no matter what I try. I've put a little water/soap on the rim, I've tried tying off one side of the bit still to close with tie wraps but the tie wraps just burst off. I've ran out of ideas.
Title: Re: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
Post by: Nemosengineer on November 15, 2020, 10:36:27 pm
Astral Radiant (Rolf Prima) 700C rims, mounting 700X25 Schwalbe Pro One TT TLE tires., in a tubeless configuration, new wheels, new tires.
Tires install on rims with thumb pressure, lube and air compressor was required to seat beads (beads fully seated at 85 psi), sealant was filled through presta valve.
Ease of installation 7.5 out of 10.
Comparable to Mavic Open Pro and Vittoria Corsa G2 with exception that the Vittoria beads seat first time everytime, 9.5 out of 10.
: Mike