Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Audax => Topic started by: hellymedic on April 18, 2012, 04:23:14 pm

Title: [HAMR] A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: hellymedic on April 18, 2012, 04:23:14 pm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-17730428 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-17730428)
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: PloddinPedro on April 18, 2012, 04:31:14 pm
Puts Audaxing into a whole new perspective!

Quite a good article compared to some these days.
Title: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Deano on April 18, 2012, 04:41:18 pm
I'll look for the book when it comes out.

...And I'd chuck a tenner in the pot for Teethgrinder to go for the record.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: jogler on April 18, 2012, 04:43:50 pm
We were discussing this bloke at this morning's cake&coffee stop while we waited for Marj to arrive to rescue one of the Wednesday Wheelers.
I didn't realise that it is an anniversary year despite the bloke's high profile locally.
One of the W.W.'ers is related to him.
the one who was rescued
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Charlotte on April 18, 2012, 04:45:46 pm
...And I'd chuck a tenner in the pot for Teethgrinder to go for the record.

So would I - and then some.  But a double century a day for 365 days?

Really?
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Jaded on April 18, 2012, 04:51:04 pm
Whilst the road surfaces are better, the traffic isn't.
Lights are though.
Title: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Deano on April 18, 2012, 05:02:29 pm
...And I'd chuck a tenner in the pot for Teethgrinder to go for the record.

So would I - and then some.  But a double century a day for 365 days?

Really?

It's unimaginable, isn't it. I first read about Tommy Godwin's record in the comic years ago, before I knew about audaxes, and it was so far off the scale that I couldn't begin to comprehend it. Good on you, Tommy.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Ian H on April 18, 2012, 05:04:43 pm
Mr Godwin is still with us. He was on R4 the other day discussing the Olympics.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Bairn Again on April 18, 2012, 05:07:46 pm
"Godwin had to learn how to walk normally again when he finished the challenge"

 :D
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on April 18, 2012, 05:09:24 pm
Puts Audaxing into a whole new perspective!

There is some overlap between annual mileage record holders and Audax. Rene Menzies rode the first 2 PBPs after WW2 and took the annual mileage record in 1937.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Bianchi Boy on April 18, 2012, 05:11:04 pm
Wait until Teethgrinder reads this  :o
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: sbseven on April 18, 2012, 05:26:17 pm
Mr Godwin is still with us. He was on R4 the other day discussing the Olympics.
That's another Tommy Godwin. The 75,065 miles Tommy Godwin died in 1975, aged 63 (http://www.tommygodwin.com/themanafter.php)...
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mattc on April 18, 2012, 05:42:27 pm
Extraordinary. I wasn't suprised to read he was getting just an hour's sleep some days - the schedule is sooo tight.

Interesting to note that he won over 200 TTs, so was clearly a very fast rider over short distances. It would (probably!) be completely impossible for a rider of 'average' ability, even before you look at the endurance and mental fortitude aspects.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Frank9755 on April 18, 2012, 06:07:33 pm
Not a bad article but what they miss out is that someone did have a shot at the record in the 70s or 80s but wasn't given it due to disputes over whether he did all the miles.  I think he felt a bit miffed about it! 

Having broken the record, I thought Tommy  Godwin showed himself to be a true audaxer by carrying on riding until the following May to get the 100k record, not having a rest like any non-audaxer would!
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Banjo on April 18, 2012, 06:16:44 pm
Utterly amazing feat of endurance.Not many of us would last one week.(I know I wouldnt)
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Camrider on April 18, 2012, 06:22:59 pm
Not a bad article but what they miss out is that someone did have a shot at the record in the 70s or 80s but wasn't given it due to disputes over whether he did all the miles.  I think he felt a bit miffed about it! 

If we are talking missing detail, who was this miffed person?
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: simonp on April 18, 2012, 06:35:00 pm
A rolling average of 22kph would allow the record to be matched with a day off every 3 weeks and only 16h per day in the saddle. Well, Steve, what are you waiting for?
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Salvatore on April 18, 2012, 06:51:16 pm
Not a bad article but what they miss out is that someone did have a shot at the record in the 70s or 80s but wasn't given it due to disputes over whether he did all the miles.  I think he felt a bit miffed about it! 

If we are talking missing detail, who was this miffed person?

From http://www.phased.co.uk/index.php/tommy-godwin-mile-eater/tommy-godwin-faq.html

Quote
In 1972 an amateur rider, Ken Webb, claimed to have taken Tommy’s record with a mileage of 80,647 miles for the year and 100,000 miles in 448 days. However, Webb rode these miles whilst holding down a full time job at Gatwick airport for a period during the year. His claims of 223 miles per day average attracted doubters, especially from a number of cyclists who rode with him and were skeptical of his ability to maintain such high average speeds. Additionally, he was often very well turned out and clean after the end of long days on the bike. This attracted further suspicion from his peers who were only too well aware of the damage to your appearance that a long day in the saddle inflicts.

Ken’s record was initially added to the Guinness Book of Records but removed at a later date after his claims were called into question.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: teethgrinder on April 18, 2012, 07:16:37 pm
A rolling average of 22kph would allow the record to be matched with a day off every 3 weeks and only 16h per day in the saddle. Well, Steve, what are you waiting for?

My boss to give me a year off.

I'd like to have a go and that's how I'd look at it. 22kph for 16 hours sounds easy, but doing it for a few days would be hard, let alone weeks, months or over a year.
I think that he started off slow. He was riding against two Australians at the time, who were also after the record and the two Australians were in front. One pulled out quite early. Tommy started spending more time in the saddle to catch up with his rival, who ended up dropping out, but Tommy kept going, riding for about 18 hours a day. I think that one trick he did was to ride all day with a tailwind then catch a train back again as he slept, so that he could have a tailwind the next day.
His biggest day's mileage was 360 miles. I think he topped 300 miles a few times, but not very many. He must have had a few relatively low mileage days too. He also crashed and broke his collarbone. I think that stopped him for 3 days, but he started riding with a broken collar bone.
I remember George Berwick telling me that he'd once met someone who had the Year Record and that they had to teach him how to walk again. It was probably Tommy.
He wasn't a regular cyclist either. He was a proffesional racing cyclist. He was also a vegetarian, which may prove something.

If I ever do have a go, I'd do as Tommy did. Start easy and build myself up as I went along. If I went straight into 200mpd from what I do now, I'd be pleased if I lasted more than a month. I did just over 200mpd riding the Grand Triangle in just under 11 days and my legs were shot after that.
Even with all the modern day advantages I have. I have very big doubts about whether I could beat it, but I'd love to give it a go. Some have tried and failed in the past. I think that loneliness could possibly be a big problem too.

I'll have to get myself the book when it comes out. Whatever it costs!
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Feline on April 18, 2012, 07:59:34 pm
I think all you really need TG is a sponsor!
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Jaded on April 18, 2012, 08:27:50 pm
Is there any money left over in the YACF Benevolent Fund?
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: hellymedic on April 18, 2012, 08:31:33 pm
If 1,000 of us shelled out £20 - £50 each... or 365 sponsored Steve for a day...
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mattc on April 18, 2012, 08:31:55 pm
I think all you really need TG is a sponsor!

- Hi Steve
- Hello boss.
- Whats up?
- I was wondering if you could sponsor me for a bike-ride .... yup, £1/mile would be fine ...
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Kim on April 18, 2012, 08:36:18 pm
I think that one trick he did was to ride all day with a tailwind then catch a train back again as he slept, so that he could have a tailwind the next day.

Paging rower40.  Rower40 to the diagonally striped courtesy phone please...
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: rogerzilla on April 18, 2012, 08:42:33 pm
I think TG should do it before he's too old.

IIRC Tommy Godwin was using a Sturmey-Archer hub, probably the AF if it was pre-war (the illogical model name - "A" is normally used for three-speeds - was corrected when it was rehashed as the FC after the war).

http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.com/index.php?page=history-detail&id=659
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Jaded on April 18, 2012, 08:43:05 pm
We could help by providing accommodation too.

Doorbell rings
"Who is it dear?"
"I'm not sure, I think it used to be a human being, it looks more like something out of Alien. It has got a bike with it though."
"Is it saying anything?"
"No, but it is grinding its teeth terribly."
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: trumpet on April 18, 2012, 08:54:38 pm
The book IS AVAILABLE - I got a copy off Amazon last week... I read as slow as I cycle so I've not finished it yet !  - A handy tip for Teethgrinder: If you start in the spring or summer you'll only have to ride through one winter - Tommy admitted his mistake was starting on New Years Day as he had to endure two bad winters.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Von Broad on April 18, 2012, 08:58:35 pm
From http://www.phased.co.uk/index.php/tommy-godwin-mile-eater/tommy-godwin-faq.html

Some lovely photos on that blog John. I like this (http://www.phased.co.uk/index.php/tommy-godwin-mile-eater/tommy-godwin-photos/3-tommy-godwin/detail/96-tg-scan-28.html).

Well, what an extraordinary bloke. I'd never heard of him before.
But the mentality. Day after day. All weathers. All states of mind. Non matter what. Just keep on pushing through.
Quite incredible.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: sbseven on April 18, 2012, 09:05:06 pm
The new website is here: http://www.tommygodwin.com/
With biog, daily mileages, bike details and photos
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: rogerzilla on April 18, 2012, 09:06:40 pm
Well, what an extraordinary bloke. I'd never heard of him before.
But the mentality. Day after day. All weathers. All states of mind. Non matter what. Just keep on pushing through.
Quite incredible.
I bet he never broke his frame and still finished a 600, though.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Banjo on April 18, 2012, 09:09:07 pm
If 1,000 of us shelled out £20 - £50 each... or 365 sponsored Steve for a day...

Count me in just need 998 more now. Also with the spread of Audaxers nationwide I am sure we could arrange bed and food at an AUKS house for the majority of nights.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: rower40 on April 18, 2012, 09:22:16 pm
Count me in just need 998 more now. Also with the spread of Audaxers nationwide I am sure we could arrange bed and food at an AUKS house for the majority of nights.
+1.  Not so many overnight trains for sleeping-on-the-way-home anymore thobut.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Von Broad on April 18, 2012, 09:23:09 pm
I bet he never broke his frame and still finished a 600, though.
No, too true.
He did finish a 600 in a day (http://www.tommygodwin.com/june.php) though!
And the next day made do with a relaxing recovery ride of 289 [miles]!
 :o
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: shyumu on April 18, 2012, 09:25:12 pm
What route would you ride?  If catching a train each night to take advantage of prevailing wind there would probably only be one or two really efficient routes to choose.  I can't imagine a record breaking attempt involving "just riding around".  If you found a nice long reliable stretch, 365 days of the same road would surely drive you nuts.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Euan Uzami on April 18, 2012, 09:44:45 pm
i like how it says in the article that "They" can do over 500 miles in a day now. Easy, then! you'd have broken the record after 6 months! Who is this "They", exactly?!  ;D
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Jaded on April 18, 2012, 09:46:35 pm
You.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Euan Uzami on April 18, 2012, 09:50:43 pm
What route would you ride?  If catching a train each night to take advantage of prevailing wind there would probably only be one or two really efficient routes to choose.  I can't imagine a record breaking attempt involving "just riding around".  If you found a nice long reliable stretch, 365 days of the same road would surely drive you nuts.
I'm curious as to why guiness think it's "too dangerous". I wonder what they think would happen.
Maybe it's not so much physical, so much as that as shyumu says you would have to ride the same road over and over again, and it wouldn' tbe able to be lanes or villlages either it would probably have to be an A-road, and in these modern times, guiness are fearing that if you attempted it you would become literally insane.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Charlotte on April 18, 2012, 09:52:32 pm
Is there any money left over in the YACF Benevolent Fund?

Some.  But not nearly enough.

We could get a Kickstarter style fund going.  365 people in for £50 a head might not be an awful lot in the face of the *massive* food bills, but you could guarantee that a rider wouldn't want for a manufacturer to sponsor him with as many bikes as he could break.

Now if we hooked up with Cyclechat and all the other flora...
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Wowbagger on April 18, 2012, 09:57:34 pm
You could cheat and find a really long downhill and a van to take you up to the top again. Something like Mallerstang or one of the long Scottish or Welsh descents done repeatedly over 18 hours would probably enable you to fit more miles in during the day and conserve energy.

Obviously you wouldn't want to do this every day but it might allow for some fast miles on odd days.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: shyumu on April 18, 2012, 09:59:34 pm
You could cheat and find a really long downhill and a van to take you up to the top again. Something like Mallerstang or one of the long Scottish or Welsh descents would probably enable you to fit more miles in during the day and conserve energy.

Obviously you wouldn't want to do this every day but it might allow for some fast miles on odd days.

And then a heavy old bike might not be such a disadvantage.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Euan Uzami on April 18, 2012, 10:01:28 pm
You could cheat and find a really long downhill and a van to take you up to the top again. Something like Mallerstang or one of the long Scottish or Welsh descents done repeatedly over 18 hours would probably enable you to fit more miles in during the day and conserve energy.

Obviously you wouldn't want to do this every day but it might allow for some fast miles on odd days.
Well if you're bringing vans into it then by that token you could ride in the slipstream of a lorry and do laps of the M25. I think the speed record for cycling in the slipsteam of a vehicle is something like 150mph.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: The Seldom Killer on April 18, 2012, 10:09:22 pm
If I were to attempt this record, and I doubt I ever would, I probably wouldn't attempt it in the UK. Somewhere with a lot of flat land would seem to be preferable, such as the prairie states in the US. Start in a southern state and keep working west to east in corridors picking north to stay with the optimum weather and then south again hopefully avoiding any of the extreme weather events.
It's evidently doable, with better machinery, better nutrition and so on, just depends on someone being mad enough to do it. Would also benefit from a dedicated cycling meteorologist plotting the next days route in accordance with the anticipated weather patterns.
The question of verification would be to have a similarly sealed GPS unit that also took pictures of the person riding the bike and transmitted them to an open website. Technically hackable but at some point trust needs to come into it.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: teethgrinder on April 18, 2012, 10:10:46 pm
I think that a good tailwind in the desert would be better than riding downhill then getting in a van. A lot of faff with getting in and out of vans and down time while travelling in the van.

Doing the same route may even help. It may sound like hell, but you'd learn the roads and your day might have some structure to it. A bit like being at work and doing the same routine every day. I cycle the same route to work almost every day and am perfectly sane. I think. This is just on a bigger scale of the daily commute.

Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: rower40 on April 18, 2012, 10:12:55 pm
If you could go nocturnal for an entire year without going 1000% Bursar, then the roads would be emptier, there would be more trains "home", and it might be easier to choose tailwind-assisted routes.
I did 16000 miles last year.  BY TRAIN.  So this rider did nearly 5x that, by invoking the wartime spirit (perhaps a year early) by just carrying on.  Chapeau x many.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Tynan on April 18, 2012, 10:14:09 pm
no fair to do it with better kit, I bet his bike is still a runner, steel frame and hub gears ...
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Fixedwheelnut on April 18, 2012, 10:32:07 pm
A rolling average of 22kph would allow the record to be matched with a day off every 3 weeks and only 16h per day in the saddle. Well, Steve, what are you waiting for?




If I ever do have a go, I'd do as Tommy did. Start easy and build myself up as I went along. If I went straight into 200mpd from what I do now, I'd be pleased if I lasted more than a month. I did just over 200mpd riding the Grand Triangle in just under 11 days and my legs were shot after that.
Even with all the modern day advantages I have. I have very big doubts about whether I could beat it, but I'd love to give it a go. Some have tried and failed in the past. I think that loneliness could possibly be a big problem too.

I'll have to get myself the book when it comes out. Whatever it costs!

Quote of the day "If I ever do have a go, I'd do as Tommy did. Start easy and build myself up as I went along. "
 You know a ride is going to be tough when Steve say's he will need to ride himself in to it :D

[Waiting for my boss to give me a year off.]  All you need to do is move approx 90 miles away from your work, then do it as a commute :)

Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: dasmoth on April 18, 2012, 10:34:57 pm
Riding it fixed might silence many of the "but you're using modern equipment" critics.

(Although I assume modern tyres are still going to be an advantage).
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: The Seldom Killer on April 18, 2012, 10:36:35 pm
TBF, most people only do about an hours work a day anyway. Your presence on myface would be sadly missed for a year though.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: The Seldom Killer on April 18, 2012, 10:37:48 pm
(Although I assume modern tyres are still going to be an advantage).

I can vouch that Halfords still sell shit tyres.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: GrahamG on April 19, 2012, 09:37:41 am
I honestly believe that the traffic is the single most limiting factor for this today. Tommy would have been able to just hop on any A road going and head for somewhere a couple of hundred miles away without having to think about navigation - that sort of thing just isn't possible anymore. It's a bit like the people who used to take their camping kit around on holiday with a low gear of 50", they just did the A-road and walked up any significant hills whereas today you have to meticulously plan the route just to avoid the constant traffic.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: simonp on April 19, 2012, 09:40:20 am
Steve has a gps though.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mattc on April 19, 2012, 09:47:21 am
- A handy tip for Teethgrinder: If you start in the spring or summer you'll only have to ride through one winter - Tommy admitted his mistake was starting on New Years Day as he had to endure two bad winters.
This is actually nonsense - it's 365 days, so you have to ride every day of winter whatever.
(There is a mental aspect though - read about RRTY.)

A summer start would have made his 100,000 mile record a LOT tougher (finishing in the 2nd winter).
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on April 19, 2012, 10:02:49 am
I'd be up for throwing in a few pounds.

An aside; is anyone else following Mike Hall's tweets (round the world record attempt). That man is some machine - 92 hours to do his New zealand bit. His log as of yesterday "12 countries, 10 000miles, more than 50 days pedalling, 7 tyres, 5 chains and one pair of shorts."

actually latest update says "16255km, 50 days 14hrs pedalling"

If he can keep this up, he's going to break 100 days for the record.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Lordy on April 19, 2012, 10:03:31 am
surely Drew could lend his bike for the like-for-like challenge, (onions optional). 
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Tom B on April 19, 2012, 10:36:49 am
Quote
Something like Mallerstang or one of the long Scottish or Welsh descents done repeatedly over 18 hours

I had to look up Mallerstang. When I zoomed out of the OS map, I realized I'd ridden up it a few years ago, tho, apart from a couple of short stretches, it barely seemed like 'up'

And yes, I'd be happy to contribute to an attempt on the record  :)
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mattc on April 19, 2012, 10:56:43 am
I'd be up for throwing in a few pounds.

An aside; is anyone else following Mike Hall's tweets (round the world record attempt). That man is some machine - 92 hours to do his New zealand bit. His log as of yesterday "12 countries, 10 000miles, more than 50 days pedalling, 7 tyres, 5 chains and one pair of shorts."

actually latest update says "16255km, 50 days 14hrs pedalling"

If he can keep this up, he's going to break 100 days for the record.
There's a separate round-the-world thread already. Enjoy!
http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=56286.msg1173778#msg1173778
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: sg37409 on April 19, 2012, 11:55:02 am
tommy goodwin (http://www.bigringriding.com/post/13585147198/old-school-badness-tommy-godwin-beat-the)
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on April 19, 2012, 12:04:14 pm
I'm sure we've already had a Tommy Godwin thread, out of this article. (http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/531582/tommy-godwin-75-065-miles-in-a-year.html) But this thread is the first one to suggest TG having a crack at the record. However, TG needs some competition to spur him on, just as the first TG had Bernard Bennet. I don't think we can trust this to Big Brother but we have Bristol's own BM, Bikey Mikey, who's already done 13,000km(?!!!) this year.

The race is on.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mcshroom on April 19, 2012, 12:05:38 pm
Or put them on a tandem  ;D
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: fungus on April 19, 2012, 12:09:06 pm
Bikey Mikey, who's already done 13,000km(?!!!) this year.


Seriously  :o 
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on April 19, 2012, 12:10:12 pm
Nah, that takes away the competitive aspect - unless we dress them up as a pantomime cow!

"But I don't want to be the back end!"
"Well pedal faster then and maybe you can overtake me!"
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on April 19, 2012, 12:11:43 pm
Bikey Mikey, who's already done 13,000km(?!!!) this year.


Seriously  :o
I'm sure that was the figure I heard but maybe it was since November. I'm doubting it now I've written it!
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mcshroom on April 19, 2012, 12:12:58 pm
// goes off to google LEJOG record for tandem crew dressed as panotmime cow :)
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: scampi on April 19, 2012, 12:38:41 pm
- A handy tip for Teethgrinder: If you start in the spring or summer you'll only have to ride through one winter - Tommy admitted his mistake was starting on New Years Day as he had to endure two bad winters.
This is actually nonsense - it's 365 days, so you have to ride every day of winter whatever.

It is not nonsense - with bad luck you could have the worst part of two winters within one calendar year - for example in 2010 when we had very cold and icy conditions in Jan/Feb and Nov/Dec.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mattc on April 19, 2012, 12:55:33 pm
- A handy tip for Teethgrinder: If you start in the spring or summer you'll only have to ride through one winter - Tommy admitted his mistake was starting on New Years Day as he had to endure two bad winters.
This is actually nonsense - it's 365 days, so you have to ride every day of winter whatever.

It is not nonsense - with bad luck you could have the worst part of two winters within one calendar year - for example in 2010 when we had very cold and icy conditions in Jan/Feb and Nov/Dec.
With respect, that is yet more nonsense! If you hit a terrible Nov/Dec, there is nothing to stop the subsequent Jan/Feb being just as bad. I think you may be a believer in the "Law" of Averages.

We'll have to agree to disagree :)

Matt
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: clarion on April 19, 2012, 01:30:59 pm
There may be something psychological about where you hit the winter.  Too early, and you might be disheartened by falling behind target.  Too late, and you may not have the resilience left.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on April 19, 2012, 01:35:40 pm
Surely the best time to start would be in summer?

Long days to use to build up strength. Hit winter part-way through, when fitness has been building and you aren't totally worn out. Then as you get through the dark days of winter and tire, spring comes, the days get longer, spirits rise.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: clarion on April 19, 2012, 01:37:06 pm
Well, that would be my thinking.

Not that I'm going to do it, of course ;D
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Lady Cavendish on April 19, 2012, 01:44:55 pm
So is teethgrinder starting this summer then? :)
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mattc on April 19, 2012, 01:48:37 pm
Well he has announced plans for 3x1000km on consecutive weekends. Not a bad start.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Lady Cavendish on April 19, 2012, 01:51:01 pm
Good start indeed. Now he just needs to organise the rest. I'll throw in a few quid too. Well done teethgrinder, come along now, get it organised.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Jethro on April 19, 2012, 03:38:17 pm
I'll sponsor him for a few quid.
Title: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: bikey-mikey on April 19, 2012, 07:04:55 pm
14,800 kms in Audax events since 1st Nov - some still awaiting validation of course. I have another 800 this weekend (Friday to Sunday, mind).

Website shows 127 points (21 behind as it were).
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: simonp on April 19, 2012, 07:08:33 pm
14,800 kms in Audax events since 1st Nov - some still awaiting validation of course. I have another 800 this weekend (Friday to Sunday, mind).

Website shows 127 points (21 behind as it were).

Hmm, over halfway to 300 points before the halfway point in the season. Is this a record attempt? Will the 50% rule prevent it counting?

Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mattc on April 19, 2012, 07:16:25 pm
14,800 kms in Audax events since 1st Nov - some still awaiting validation of course. I have another 800 this weekend (Friday to Sunday, mind).
Mr Godwin had done about 42,000 in Nov-March. Just FYI!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: KTCommuter on April 19, 2012, 07:25:09 pm
First read about this last year....thought it was incredible....200 miles a day (320K) for well over a year...that's over 1,000 points in audax parlance! Also in 1939/40 with none of the supposed adavantages we have today - equipment, lighting, road surfaces, nutrition - just mind blowing. Bikey Mikey, Pete Turnbull, Steve Abraham and other super audaxers are impressive, this is something else again.

Also pretty surprised how little known this achievement is although this is something shared by the audax world, where acheivements gain little recognition even in the rest of cycling.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: rogerzilla on April 19, 2012, 07:37:07 pm
 I think TG's audax palmares might be good enough to get sponsorship from Rapha.  They do audax now and they like the "hard man" image.

How much are we looking at for rent, bills and food for a year?
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: recumbentim on April 19, 2012, 07:37:16 pm
Mike hall is not far off a double century each day and he is really racing round the world at the moment. He would just need to keep going after his round the world?? Mind blowing figures.
 Yes it would be a new points record near 1200.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: bikey-mikey on April 19, 2012, 07:44:43 pm
14,800 kms in Audax events since 1st Nov - some still awaiting validation of course. I have another 800 this weekend (Friday to Sunday, mind).

Website shows 127 points (21 behind as it were).

Hmm, over halfway to 300 points before the halfway point in the season. Is this a record attempt? Will the 50% rule prevent it counting?

It's not a record attempt but since my accident I can't work, nor really do anything other than watch TV or ride my bike.  So riding my bike, and especially riding audaxes, has literally become my life.  Brain damage can do funny things, and I am lucky that I have found something that I enjoy and that suits my problems - having a Garmin dictate my every second four days a week in some ways makes up for my brain not being able to run my life the way it used to...

Here is a link to the AUK page http://www.aukweb.net/results/detail/2012/listride/?Rider=6372

There are five more calendar event points awaited from the two Penzance rides which have been discussed on here.. and I make my calendar event total 43 points..

Yes the 50% rule applies as regards major cups and trophies, but possibly not actual points totals...

50% rule aimed at ensuring that the people who get 'rewarded' at the end of the season are not those who just go out on their own doing DIYs, but rather 'good eggs' who support lots of calendar events and who therefore get to meet lots of people, and maybe encourage to others to do the same...

Frankly as a non driver I feel that the 50% rule should not apply where you have done a significant number of calendar events in the year, and I have done just about every calendar event I could have, (I am still not allowed to drive, having given up my driving license, so many of my DIY miles are to and from events).    I have done more calendar events than anyone else so far this year, so it seems a bit strange that a rule designed to encourage people to do calendar events should bite me on the bum...... but that's probably not what 'they' had in mind...   :smug:
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mattc on April 19, 2012, 07:46:14 pm
Mike hall is not far off a double century each day and he is really racing round the world at the moment. He would just need to keep going after his round the world?? Mind blowing figures.


You could be right. I believe the RTWers get time off for transfers, so maybe that would dent his 'real' average?
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: teethgrinder on April 19, 2012, 10:03:29 pm
It's not a record attempt

You're at least level, if not ahead of where I was in 2007. I had 200 by the end of June. You'd still only have 11 months instead of the 12 I had, but I say keep going for 12. There most likely aren't enough calendar points for you to top 405 and stay with the 50% rule anyway so IMO championship points are irrelevant. (They just don't expect us to do that much! ;D)

If you top 405 in 12 months, I would certainly propose at the AGM that it is mentioned in the handbook. But I suspect that I wouldn't need to.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Exit Stage Left on April 19, 2012, 10:12:04 pm
It's worth remembering that the speed limit for HGVs was 20mph from 1934. My Dad tells stories of how club runs would latch onto the back of a lorry in the 1940s. There was also an extensive network of transport cafes. I don't wish to belittle the achievement, but it was a different world.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: teethgrinder on April 19, 2012, 10:18:19 pm
I think TG's audax palmares might be good enough to get sponsorship from Rapha.  They do audax now and they like the "hard man" image.

How much are we looking at for rent, bills and food for a year?

There are quite a few barriers to break down to have a go. How much? I budgeted for £1000 a month when I took voluntary redundancy and buggered off in my tent for about 5 months. That paid my bills as well as my touring.
Traffic is a big pain too. I think I'd want to do it in the USA if I could. Hundreds of miles of hassle free cycling in places like Arizona. AGPS is all well and good, but they take time to put routes into.

I wonder if I really could have a go? Maybe something to think about if the 3 1000k rides go well? The 3 1000k rides are what I'm doing instead of the Race Across Europe. (RAAM on the cheap) but I'm a bit low on fitness and don't fancy paying the £1000 entry fee, plus another £1000 plus on expenses when I have doubts about being up to it. I did think about India, but that looks like hassle and I want something to get me fit again, so the 3 1000k rides it is and see what happens after that.
I wonder if a TV company would be interested? Success or failure could make for a good programme.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Feline on April 19, 2012, 10:20:50 pm
I think TG's audax palmares might be good enough to get sponsorship from Rapha.  They do audax now and they like the "hard man" image.

How much are we looking at for rent, bills and food for a year?

There are quite a few barriers to break down to have a go. How much? I budgeted for £1000 a month when I took voluntary redundancy and buggered off in my tent for about 5 months. That paid my bills as well as my touring.
Traffic is a big pain too. I think I'd want to do it in the USA if I could. Hundreds of miles of hassle free cycling in places like Arizona. AGPS is all well and good, but they take time to put routes into.

I wonder if I really could have a go? Maybe something to think about if the 3 1000k rides go well? The 3 1000k rides are what I'm doing instead of the Race Across Europe. (RAAM on the cheap) but I'm a bit low on fitness and don't fancy paying the £1000 entry fee, plus another £1000 plus on expenses when I have doubts about being up to it. I did think about India, but that looks like hassle and I want something to get me fit again, so the 3 1000k rides it is and see what happens after that.
I wonder if a TV company would be interested? Success or failure could make for a good programme.

I think you should go for it Steve, I will help sponsor you!
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: teethgrinder on April 19, 2012, 10:26:18 pm
It's worth remembering that the speed limit for HGVs was 20mph from 1934. My Dad tells stories of how club runs would latch onto the back of a lorry in the 1940s. There was also an extensive network of transport cafes. I don't wish to belittle the achievement, but it was a different world.

I remember Jach Eason telling me how cyclists used to slipstream trucks up The Great North Road (A1 to us youngsters) all morning, stop at a cafe, then spend all day cycling back.

Definitely a different age to now and I think that there were advantages back then. Lights were rubbish, But I suspect that there was almost no light pollution, so night vision was much better.

Tommy was a profesional too. I doubt that Team Sky would have one of their team try something like this. Perhaps I could approach Team Sky and BC as a maverick?
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mmmmartin on April 19, 2012, 10:26:44 pm
an extensive network of transport cafes
Good point, I find trying to design a 200k ride around the few good transprt cafes in the south east quite tricky. It is not impossible, but tricky. And having lots of them would make riding a lot easier. Even the ones that do exist tend to not be open at strange hours. With the honourable exception of the Red Lodge, just off the A11 on the Seething 600k ride, and I am unsure if I would want to be there at 2am on a weekend.
Title: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: bikey-mikey on April 19, 2012, 10:36:03 pm
It's not a record attempt

You're at least level, if not ahead of where I was in 2007. I had 200 by the end of June. You'd still only have 11 months instead of the 12 I had, but I say keep going for 12. There most likely aren't enough calendar points for you to top 405 and stay with the 50% rule anyway so IMO championship points are irrelevant. (They just don't expect us to do that  much! ;D)

If you top 405 in 12 months, I would certainly propose at the AGM that it is mentioned in the handbook. But I suspect that I wouldn't need to.

Good analysis Steve, and thanks for the encouragement !! I'll just keep on going and if close at 11 months then one more  for my own 'record' would make sense...
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on April 19, 2012, 10:41:35 pm
I think TG's audax palmares might be good enough to get sponsorship from Rapha.  They do audax now and they like the "hard man" image.

How much are we looking at for rent, bills and food for a year?

There are quite a few barriers to break down to have a go. How much? I budgeted for £1000 a month when I took voluntary redundancy and buggered off in my tent for about 5 months. That paid my bills as well as my touring.
Traffic is a big pain too. I think I'd want to do it in the USA if I could. Hundreds of miles of hassle free cycling in places like Arizona. AGPS is all well and good, but they take time to put routes into.

I wonder if I really could have a go? Maybe something to think about if the 3 1000k rides go well? The 3 1000k rides are what I'm doing instead of the Race Across Europe. (RAAM on the cheap) but I'm a bit low on fitness and don't fancy paying the £1000 entry fee, plus another £1000 plus on expenses when I have doubts about being up to it. I did think about India, but that looks like hassle and I want something to get me fit again, so the 3 1000k rides it is and see what happens after that.
I wonder if a TV company would be interested? Success or failure could make for a good programme.
Yes. There is great cycling in India (and great other things too) but it's not for a record attempt. Some of the roads are literally rubble (though some are excellent) and though there is little traffic outside the big cities, the driving standards are, um, not a legacy of the Raj. And though we know you are not fussy about food(!) everyone gets a bad stomach at some time in India - including the locals. Plus, you can't mend puncture without attracting a dozen experts - ask Deano!

But as for the record attempt - go for it, seriously!
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Camrider on April 19, 2012, 10:57:15 pm
an extensive network of transport cafes
Good point, I find trying to design a 200k ride around the few good transport cafes in the south east quite tricky. It is not impossible, but tricky. And having lots of them would make riding a lot easier. Even the ones that do exist tend to not be open at strange hours. With the honorable exception of the Red Lodge, just off the A11 on the Seething 600k ride, and I am unsure if I would want to be there at 2am on a weekend.

That exception is no more. Its no longer 24 hour, which is why the Green and Yellow Fields 1st control is now the 24 hour Esso station @ Mildenhall tomorrow night.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Bianchi Boy on April 20, 2012, 07:09:31 am
an extensive network of transport cafes
Good point, I find trying to design a 200k ride around the few good transport cafes in the south east quite tricky. It is not impossible, but tricky. And having lots of them would make riding a lot easier. Even the ones that do exist tend to not be open at strange hours. With the honorable exception of the Red Lodge, just off the A11 on the Seething 600k ride, and I am unsure if I would want to be there at 2am on a weekend.

That exception is no more. Its no longer 24 hour, which is why the Green and Yellow Fields 1st control is now the 24 hour Esso station @ Mildenhall tomorrow night.
There might not be transport cafe but there are a large number of super markets that are open 24 (not quite 7) see http://www.tesco.com/storelocator/ and type in a town. There are not many that you cannot buy cat food at 3am?

BB
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Lady Cavendish on April 20, 2012, 09:05:56 am
Steve, it would be brilliant if you could have a look at the logistical side of stuff to see whether you really could give this a go. If you had some TV support, it would indeed make life a lot easier- financially as much as anything. Discovery Channel have had a few documentary things about people running silly things, and I think this would fit along those lines.

Would be totally brilliant if you could give this a go :) I'd definitely be up for throwing £££ in too.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Somnolent on April 20, 2012, 09:20:15 am
It's worth remembering that the speed limit for HGVs was 20mph from 1934. My Dad tells stories of how club runs would latch onto the back of a lorry in the 1940s. There was also an extensive network of transport cafes. I don't wish to belittle the achievement, but it was a different world.

I'm told that this is still done in South Africa.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on April 20, 2012, 09:29:39 am
an extensive network of transport cafes
Good point, I find trying to design a 200k ride around the few good transport cafes in the south east quite tricky. It is not impossible, but tricky. And having lots of them would make riding a lot easier. Even the ones that do exist tend to not be open at strange hours. With the honorable exception of the Red Lodge, just off the A11 on the Seething 600k ride, and I am unsure if I would want to be there at 2am on a weekend.

That exception is no more. Its no longer 24 hour, which is why the Green and Yellow Fields 1st control is now the 24 hour Esso station @ Mildenhall tomorrow night.
There might not be transport cafe but there are a large number of super markets that are open 24 (not quite 7) see http://www.tesco.com/storelocator/ and type in a town. There are not many that you cannot buy cat food at 3am?

BB
I think (if Steve were to try this in the UK) you've identified a potential sponsor.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on April 20, 2012, 09:33:30 am
^Yebbut I'm not sure even Steve is willing to live on a diet of 3am cat food!
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on April 20, 2012, 09:39:51 am
Cheap, nutricious and cleans your cat's teeth!
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mcshroom on April 20, 2012, 11:17:55 am
Just been doing the sums (well excel has but YKWIM):

The record is 75,065 miles, or 120,805.4 km in a year.

That means you need to ride 331km/day, or keep up an average of 13.79 km/h.

Basically minimum audax speed for a whole year :o
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mattc on April 20, 2012, 11:24:17 am
There might not be transport cafe but there are a large number of super markets that are open 24 (not quite 7) see http://www.tesco.com/storelocator/ and type in a town. There are not many that you cannot buy cat food at 3am?

BB
Well, apart from the morale boost of a decent sit-down meal, you'll lose a lot of time getting off your nice fast A-road to the nearest 24h Superstore.

Imagine turning off the M6 at Knutsford, and being handed a leaflet with a map to the nearest Sainsco!

Little things like this add up ...
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Tom B on April 20, 2012, 11:25:42 am
Just found a copy of this article (http://search.bikelist.org/beta/ViewMessage.aspx?id=68092), found on a forum some years back. I have a vague memory of FWing it to someone who was researching Tommy Goodwin, (in C+ days, IIRC)... it could even have been Dave Barter, in which case the info in the link is either on his website, or has been superseded  :-\
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on April 20, 2012, 11:28:16 am
Just been doing the sums (well excel has but YKWIM):

The record is 75,065 miles, or 120,805.4 km in a year.

That means you need to ride 331km/day, or keep up an average of 13.79 km/h.

Basically minimum audax speed for a whole year :o

I make it 387 per day - assuming one rest day per 6 days in average.

To put that into perspective, that's considerably more per day than you'd need to capture the round-the-world record.  The RtWR has the considerable complication of route-finding, camping and food-finding in strange countries. However it has built-in rest days that are deducted from the total (transfers).
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Exit Stage Left on April 20, 2012, 12:05:13 pm
Mr Godwin is still with us. He was on R4 the other day discussing the Olympics.

That's a diffferent Tommy Godwin, this one was born 1912, died 1975.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mattc on April 20, 2012, 12:07:26 pm
Mr Godwin is still with us. He was on R4 the other day discussing the Olympics.
That's another Tommy Godwin. The 75,065 miles Tommy Godwin died in 1975, aged 63 (http://www.tommygodwin.com/themanafter.php)...
Is that what people mean when they talk of threads breaking Godwin's Law?
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Basil on April 20, 2012, 12:14:06 pm
The other Tommy G is the track cyclist.  Won some medals in the 1948 Olypics.
A young Basil used to frequent his shop on silver Street in King's Heath. 
Sadly the shop closed years ago.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: MarkA on April 20, 2012, 12:44:51 pm
Quote
Mike hall is not far off a double century each day and he is really racing round the world at the moment. He would just need to keep going after his round the world?? Mind blowing figures.

RTW is 18,000 miles.  So he would have to keep going round another 3 times. 
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Biggsy on April 20, 2012, 12:51:04 pm
- A handy tip for Teethgrinder: If you start in the spring or summer you'll only have to ride through one winter - Tommy admitted his mistake was starting on New Years Day as he had to endure two bad winters.
This is actually nonsense - it's 365 days, so you have to ride every day of winter whatever.

It is not nonsense - with bad luck you could have the worst part of two winters within one calendar year - for example in 2010 when we had very cold and icy conditions in Jan/Feb and Nov/Dec.
With respect, that is yet more nonsense! If you hit a terrible Nov/Dec, there is nothing to stop the subsequent Jan/Feb being just as bad. I think you may be a believer in the "Law" of Averages.

Trumpet's first statement was nonsense (a bum note), but it stemmed from something sensible: Tommy saying, effectively, that he regretted starting in a bad winter.  "Bad" being the operative word, not just that he started at wintertime.

There's a 100% chance of experiencing a BAD winter if it's a bad winter when you start.  There's a less than 100% chance of getting a BAD winter if you wait for the current bad winter to pass before starting.  So it depends what the weather is like when you start.  All this is irrelevant though if you're setting the start date long in advance, and sticking to it, because accurate very-long-range weather forecasts aren't possible.

Am I right or am I right?  Ithangyou.  :smug:  :D
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: trumpet on April 20, 2012, 07:50:22 pm

Trumpet's first statement was nonsense (a bum note), but it stemmed from something sensible: Tommy saying, effectively, that he regretted starting in a bad winter.  "Bad" being the operative word, not just that he started at wintertime.

There's a 100% chance of experiencing a BAD winter if it's a bad winter when you start.  There's a less than 100% chance of getting a BAD winter if you wait for the current bad winter to pass before starting.  So it depends what the weather is like when you start.  All this is irrelevant though if you're setting the start date long in advance, and sticking to it, because accurate very-long-range weather forecasts aren't possible.

I was only quoting from the book - I didn't think it through.... but remember he did carru on for the 100,000 mile record too !

Am I right or am I right?  Ithangyou.  :smug:  :D
[/quote]
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mattc on April 20, 2012, 08:15:12 pm
Starting on New Years Day has a certain resonance, and it does stop people accusing you of picking the weather!
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Citizenfish on April 20, 2012, 08:20:41 pm
Hi,

Dave Barter here..brilliant thread and I am really interested in this discussion. I am deep into writing a book about the cycling year record and if anyone is considering giving it a go I would be DELIGHTED to talk to them about the logistics and also a few modern barriers to overcome. One of which is the conditions under which Guinness would accept a world record..they're hilarious. I worked with a fella who was planning an attempt this year but he baled out of the full mileage for various reasons, he then set out to establish an amateur benchmark but had his bike nicked after 1.5 months and has stopped.

One thing people forget when looking at 205 miles per day average..is the day's things go wrong and you are prevented from hitting the average. These days push then next day's mileage up and compound the problem. Think through your cycling year and how many of the 365 days ou rode [;-)] were trouble free. Were you never ill. Did you never have ANY family/social/legal etc.. commitments. You have to live the record for an entire year and also cannot let any weather, accident or other issue get in your way.

Anyway, I've got to go as tea has been shoved between me and the laptop. any questions about Tommy or any of the other riders please shout on or off thread. I love the discussion as it helps me enormously with my research.

Dave
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: rogerzilla on April 20, 2012, 08:39:35 pm
Hi Dave.  Are you still in Swindon RC?

Jaded has some experience of TV, and that is probably the key; that, or a running feature in a cycling magazine, but they all seem to be focused on racing (the Comic) or bloody sportives (C+).  How do the round the world guys pay for it?

I think your best hope of sponsorship is a cycling kit manufacturer (or several; jersey sponsorship is possible from five or six) as the record is not as impressive to non-cyclists.  Most road clubs manage to get some sponsorship here and there.

I agree that it is incredibly hard to maintain the daily average in the face of illness and other commitments, but those of us who've ridden with Teethgrinder know that he is not human.  He broke his handlebars trying to get up Smalldean Lane in the Chilterns on 86" fixed.  Unperturbed, he used his light clamp to hold the bar together and continued to London.  He doesn't often use trains because it's too much hassle to work out the timetable and buy a ticket, so he just rides instead.  He strips food tables bare like a swarm of locusts.  He has been seen riding a mountain bike that looks like, and weighs about the same as, a Harley-Davidson.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Citizenfish on April 20, 2012, 08:49:35 pm
Hi Dave.  Are you still in Swindon RC?

Jaded has some experience of TV, and that is probably the key; that, or a running feature in a cycling magazine, but they all seem to be focused on racing (the Comic) or bloody sportives (C+).  How do the round the world guys pay for it?

I think your best hope of sponsorship is a cycling kit manufacturer (or several; jersey sponsorship is possible from five or six) as the record is not as impressive to non-cyclists.  Most road clubs manage to get some sponsorship here and there.

Yes. I still an SRC member, in fact I now hold 3 committee positions!

I know the TV producer who produced the short feature on the two Tommys that was broadcast late last year. He is possibly interested in anyone who is prepared to have a go at the record as it would make a very good documentary. In fact we were considering pitching a programme on the history of the year record but there is zero footage to support it.

The guy who set out earlier this year really struggled with sponsorship. The record is dead in the public eye and all they care about is bloody celebrities who swim rivers and stuff. I felt that sponsorship momentum would build as the rider got further into the year and sponsors could see they were a serious and viable prospect. He unfortunately had no cycling track record and so his pitch to sponsors was not very compelling.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: rogerzilla on April 20, 2012, 08:53:13 pm
I believe Teethgrinder has a pretty good, evidenced, audax record.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Citizenfish on April 20, 2012, 09:01:49 pm
Now find a sponsor who knows what an Audax is ;-)

Godwin/Bennett/Nicholson all had good support teams for their attempts..now Walter Greaves, he was a different kettle of fish. Little support, one arm.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: clarion on April 20, 2012, 09:40:32 pm
Teethgrinder would need a stoker.

No, not because he'd be riding a tandem.  More someone to shovel food into his mouth.  I've seen how much he can eat on his current mileage.  If he steps it up, then :o
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: MikeFromLFE on April 20, 2012, 09:52:25 pm
It's worth remembering that the speed limit for HGVs was 20mph from 1934. My Dad tells stories of how club runs would latch onto the back of a lorry in the 1940s. There was also an extensive network of transport cafes. I don't wish to belittle the achievement, but it was a different world.

My father (who often rode 'stupid distances' in the 1930's & 40') confirmed it was a differrent world, but from what I remember him telling me - the differences were not always as obvious as we'd like to think. Apparently it was not uncommon for long distance lorry drivers to use drugs (?benzodiazepan) to keep awake on long runs, leading to crashes and fights at transport caffs. Drink driving was the accepted norm, so we shouldn't naturally assume that less traffic = safer roads. My father's abiding memories of going through large towns and cities (such as Leicester where I now live) was of cobbles and tramlines - both hazards to cyclists and very unpleasant! His tales of Transport caffs were that they were not overly welcoming places form those 'outside the club' particulalry at night. Certainly seeing more cyclists was the thing, so maybe there was less of the antagonism we might experience nowadays from motorists - many of whom may well have also been cyclists themselves?
I can't ask the old bloke to talk any more about cycling in those days .......
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on April 20, 2012, 10:01:12 pm
I seem to recall from the article in the Comic that Tommy Godwin had a number of club mates who would take turns in pacing him... so that he was not on his own all the time.

On the subject of pacing all the tractors around Selsey are speed governed to 27mph.  If you can get into the pocket behind them it you hardly have to turn the pedals to keep up.  Its great for the headwinds that you get in those parts  ;D
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Citizenfish on April 20, 2012, 10:15:48 pm
I seem to recall from the article in the Comic that Tommy Godwin had a number of club mates who would take turns in pacing him... so that he was not on his own all the time.

On the subject of pacing all the tractors around Selsey are speed governed to 27mph.  If you can get into the pocket behind them it you hardly have to turn the pedals to keep up.  Its great for the headwinds that you get in those parts  ;D

You are right to an extent. Tommy was paced by his sponsors in the early part of the record but pacing stopped after July when his and Bennett's teams agreed to call a truce, so he rode the second half of the record completely unaided.

I don't buy the lorry theory at all. Think of the logistics of constantly finding lorries and trying to switch between them. How do you cope when you end up where the lorry stops and you don't know anybody at all? Godwin stuck in the main to routes between London and his home riding backwards and forwards between the two areas. He also HAD to stop regularly to get his mileage cards signed and witnessed. Something he could not have done if drafting lorries all the time.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: hubner on April 20, 2012, 10:37:05 pm
"Dangerous"? More like a record too boring to break  ;D

Quote
Also pretty surprised how little known this achievement is although this is something shared by the audax world, where acheivements gain little recognition even in the rest of cycling.

It might have something to do with doing something that is not overly difficult in itself (like riding at 13-15mph) but over a greatly extended period of time is not seen as much of an achievement by most people including cyclists.

With something like cycling around the world, most could appreciate that, even if you took several years to do it. But riding up and down on a random stretch of road all your waking hours, everyday, for a year, and most people would say so what?

And does this record have any rules. Eg can you just ride on any road in any direction to take advantage of a tailwind? Do you have start from the place you finish the previous day? Can you do it on an indoor track? Are you allowed a support vehicle?
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mcshroom on April 20, 2012, 10:46:00 pm
And does this record have any rules. Eg can you just ride on any road in any direction to take advantage of a tailwind? Do you have start from the place you finish the previous day? Can you do it on an indoor track? Are you allowed a support vehicle?

Indoors that would be 483 221.6 laps of the velodrome - I think that would make me either very dizzy or nuts (or both)
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: simonp on April 21, 2012, 02:46:55 am
Teethgrinder’s Audax points total in the 2007 season was based on riding mostly at weekends apart from towards the end of the season when he realised he could pass 40,000km. Then he started riding overnight on Wednesday nights between workdays, and was riding 800km over weekends between Friday night and Sunday evening. He could actually be daft enough to contemplate this.

I don’t know how many of the 365 days of the year TG was actually riding. Can’t have been very much more than 100 given he has a day job!

Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Citizenfish on April 21, 2012, 01:41:54 pm
Teethgrinder’s Audax points total in the 2007 season was based on riding mostly at weekends apart from towards the end of the season when he realised he could pass 40,000km. Then he started riding overnight on Wednesday nights between workdays, and was riding 800km over weekends between Friday night and Sunday evening. He could actually be daft enough to contemplate this.

I don’t know how many of the 365 days of the year TG was actually riding. Can’t have been very much more than 100 given he has a day job!

364 out of 365, don't know where you got the day job from?
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: simonp on April 21, 2012, 01:51:01 pm
Teethgrinder’s Audax points total in the 2007 season was based on riding mostly at weekends apart from towards the end of the season when he realised he could pass 40,000km. Then he started riding overnight on Wednesday nights between workdays, and was riding 800km over weekends between Friday night and Sunday evening. He could actually be daft enough to contemplate this.

I don’t know how many of the 365 days of the year TG was actually riding. Can’t have been very much more than 100 given he has a day job!

364 out of 365, don't know where you got the day job from?

TG is Teethgrinder in my post, not Tommy Godwin.

Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: rogerzilla on April 21, 2012, 03:14:18 pm
Serendipity.  Or nominative determinism.  He was born for it.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Ashaman42 on April 21, 2012, 07:15:37 pm
I also would be quite willing to chuck some money in the pot to see Teethgrinder give this a go.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Jaded on April 21, 2012, 08:01:46 pm
Re TV - it is good that there is a documentary person willing to look at covering this. It isn't a very sexy story for that - fairly niche and (with respect to long distance riding) exceptionally boring subject! ;D

Always room for blogging, press releases, etc.

I'd almost be inclined to not publicise it much until it was 1/3 or 1/2 way through - getting loads of coverage at the beginning then having to drop out a few weeks in would be a large effort for a low return. A year is a long time.

Regarding sponsorship - difficult to see that you could get a headline sponsor to cover this, but it might be that the amount needed could be covered by lots of smaller sponsors, e.g. us lot, some food suppliers, some cycling related suppliers. There's quite probably be a level of equipment, clothing and food that could be sponsored. but TG probably woudlt take too kindly to being force-fed Ginsters Pies, or made to ride a Halfords special. Or wear Rapha. ;D

Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Biggsy on April 21, 2012, 09:25:56 pm
Re TV - it is good that there is a documentary person willing to look at covering this. It isn't a very sexy story for that - fairly niche and (with respect to long distance riding) exceptionally boring subject! ;D

It's what BBC4 is for!
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: BDI on April 21, 2012, 09:46:57 pm
Clarion touched on this.
Does anybody know what 'domestic' support Tommy Godwin had in terms of a soigneur, housekeeper or devoted wife? ISTM that this would be an important aspect of any year record attempt and would need to be factored in, and costed.
Shopping, cooking, laundry etc would all eat into valuable riding time especially in the inevitable tough weeks and could make the difference.
I expect Mr T Grinder's HQ is pretty slick already, but should he decide to take on the challenge some sort of help would seem necessary.
I would be up for covering a day's reasonable costs. Are there 364 others out there, rather than being beholden to commercial pressures?

BDi
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Jaded on April 21, 2012, 11:14:03 pm
Are you volunteering to spread cream on his raw bits?
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mmmmartin on April 22, 2012, 01:46:08 am
He doesn't often use trains because it's too much hassle to work out the timetable and buy a ticket
Nor does he accept lifts. He rode from milton keynes to seething in norfolk to ride the seething 600 last year. On the way there he stopped to empty the Red Lodge of a year's supply of food, as you do. I stopped to eat at the Red Lodge, and offered him a lift from the cafe to the start point, in my car, equipped with not one but two empty bike racks. He declined the offer, twice. I drove there and arrived about 3pm. He arrived about 9 pm, having ridden all the way. On fixed. With full camping kit.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: slohill on April 22, 2012, 08:00:17 am
I was in Swinnerton cycles, Fenton, Stoke on Trent yesterday as they are service agents for my DT Swiss Hubs (good shop with knowledgeable and helpful mechanics)---they have a stock of the new Tommy Goodwin book on the counter.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Eccentrica Gallumbits on April 22, 2012, 10:50:19 am
Well, that would be my thinking.

Not that I'm going to do it, of course ;D
Bobb'll be pleased to hear that.  ;D
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: jogler on April 22, 2012, 11:59:43 am
I was in Swinnerton cycles, Fenton, Stoke on Trent

my lbs
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Citizenfish on April 22, 2012, 04:39:31 pm
Clarion touched on this.
Does anybody know what 'domestic' support Tommy Godwin had in terms of a soigneur, housekeeper or devoted wife? ISTM that this would be an important aspect of any year record attempt and would need to be factored in, and costed.
Shopping, cooking, laundry etc would all eat into valuable riding time especially in the inevitable tough weeks and could make the difference.
I expect Mr T Grinder's HQ is pretty slick already, but should he decide to take on the challenge some sort of help would seem necessary.
I would be up for covering a day's reasonable costs. Are there 364 others out there, rather than being beholden to commercial pressures?

BDi

Yes, he was not married and did not have a partner at the time. The cycling community around the area were very close knit and he was basically looked after by friends and fellow cyclists who often washed him and put him to bed in a near semi-conscious state.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Karla on April 22, 2012, 04:52:58 pm
I don’t know how many of the 365 days of the year TG was actually riding. Can’t have been very much more than 100 given he has a day job!

Aukweb says Teethgrinder did 98 rides in 2007.  A lot of those are 600s and 800s, plus two 12s, a 14 and a 15, ie. multi-day events.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: simonp on April 22, 2012, 04:57:13 pm
I don’t know how many of the 365 days of the year TG was actually riding. Can’t have been very much more than 100 given he has a day job!

Aukweb says Teethgrinder did 98 rides in 2007.  A lot of those are 600s and 800s, plus two 12s, a 14 and a 15, ie. multi-day events.

405 points at 15kph is 112 days. As I said, not very much more than 100 days.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on April 22, 2012, 05:08:34 pm
There's one person noticeably absent from this thread - Teethgrinder himself. Is he keen enough on it to give up his job and every other aspect of his life for a year?
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: bobb on April 22, 2012, 09:49:25 pm
There's one person noticeably absent from this thread - Teethgrinder himself. Is he keen enough on it to give up his job and every other aspect of his life for a year?

I think he is! Allow me to quote him as you obviously can't be arsed to read the thread  :P

My boss to give me a year off.

I'd like to have a go and that's how I'd look at it. 22kph for 16 hours sounds easy, but doing it for a few days would be hard, let alone weeks, months or over a year.
I think that he started off slow. He was riding against two Australians at the time, who were also after the record and the two Australians were in front. One pulled out quite early. Tommy started spending more time in the saddle to catch up with his rival, who ended up dropping out, but Tommy kept going, riding for about 18 hours a day. I think that one trick he did was to ride all day with a tailwind then catch a train back again as he slept, so that he could have a tailwind the next day.
His biggest day's mileage was 360 miles. I think he topped 300 miles a few times, but not very many. He must have had a few relatively low mileage days too. He also crashed and broke his collarbone. I think that stopped him for 3 days, but he started riding with a broken collar bone.
I remember George Berwick telling me that he'd once met someone who had the Year Record and that they had to teach him how to walk again. It was probably Tommy.
He wasn't a regular cyclist either. He was a proffesional racing cyclist. He was also a vegetarian, which may prove something.

If I ever do have a go, I'd do as Tommy did. Start easy and build myself up as I went along. If I went straight into 200mpd from what I do now, I'd be pleased if I lasted more than a month. I did just over 200mpd riding the Grand Triangle in just under 11 days and my legs were shot after that.
Even with all the modern day advantages I have. I have very big doubts about whether I could beat it, but I'd love to give it a go. Some have tried and failed in the past. I think that loneliness could possibly be a big problem too.

I'll have to get myself the book when it comes out. Whatever it costs!
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on April 22, 2012, 10:23:20 pm
Thanks, Bobb! I had read it but TG's post was 4 days ago now - my memory is... oh, what was I going to say?
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: andrew_s on April 22, 2012, 11:40:40 pm
Not a bad article but what they miss out is that someone did have a shot at the record in the 70s or 80s but wasn't given it due to disputes over whether he did all the miles.  I think he felt a bit miffed about it!
Ken Webb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Webb) (80,647 miles)
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Bianchi Boy on April 23, 2012, 11:40:42 am
Not a bad article but what they miss out is that someone did have a shot at the record in the 70s or 80s but wasn't given it due to disputes over whether he did all the miles.  I think he felt a bit miffed about it!
Ken Webb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Webb) (80,647 miles)
I have no clue if Ken Webb completed all his miles (or Tommy Goodwin for that matter) but to do a fraud would be quite easy to spot. All you would need to do would to see him and check where his log said he was. There does not appear to be a case of this only suggestions.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: rower40 on April 23, 2012, 11:55:00 am
Teethgrinder would need a stoker.

No, not because he'd be riding a tandem.  More someone to shovel food into his mouth.  I've seen how much he can eat on his current mileage.  If he steps it up, then :o

Wikipedia states:
Quote
Mechanical stoker
 
A mechanical stoker is a device which feeds coal into the firebox of a boiler. It is standard equipment on large stationary boilers and was also fitted to large steam locomotives to ease the burden of the fireman. The locomotive type has a screw conveyor (driven by an auxiliary steam engine) which feeds the coal into the firebox. The coal is then distributed across the grate by steam jets, controlled by the fireman. Power stations usually use pulverized coal-fired boilers.

From here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireman_(steam_engine)).  Strikes me as rather apt.
Wasn't there a scene in a Charlie Chaplain film where a machine is used to shove food into the production line worker's mouth?
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Euan Uzami on April 23, 2012, 12:20:53 pm
Not a bad article but what they miss out is that someone did have a shot at the record in the 70s or 80s but wasn't given it due to disputes over whether he did all the miles.  I think he felt a bit miffed about it!
Ken Webb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Webb) (80,647 miles)

Quote
"People ask how it is that I account for a greater mileage between places than the road signs indicate. I tell them that I don't always ride straight from one place to the other, that sometimes I make detours...
... sounds to me like he doesn't understand the principle of shortest distance between controls  ;) ;)
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on April 23, 2012, 12:42:34 pm
Averaging 221 miles per day alongside a fulltime job is not possible, unless he was motorpacing an awful lot.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mattc on April 23, 2012, 02:02:12 pm
Averaging 221 miles per day alongside a fulltime job is not possible, unless he was motorpacing an awful lot.
True, but these accounts of Webb's year are very vague about how long he had this job for.

There doesn't seem much evidence that he cheated; from the sources cited here, he had as robust a 'validation' process as Godwin  :-\
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Citizenfish on April 23, 2012, 04:00:28 pm
Averaging 221 miles per day alongside a fulltime job is not possible, unless he was motorpacing an awful lot.
True, but these accounts of Webb's year are very vague about how long he had this job for.

There doesn't seem much evidence that he cheated; from the sources cited here, he had as robust a 'validation' process as Godwin  :-\

I have evidence to the contrary including a set of letters written by other cyclists who testify that his mileometer did not work properly and that his average speed on the bike was typically 10-13mph. Jenny Noad went on record as stating that she rode with him and her records vs his showed a discrepancy of 30% (in his favour). Jenny was a very well known racer who was sadly killed on her bike.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: teethgrinder on April 23, 2012, 10:32:17 pm
There's one person noticeably absent from this thread - Teethgrinder himself. Is he keen enough on it to give up his job and every other aspect of his life for a year?

Sorry. I went out on my bike. :D

There isn't much else to my life that can't wait a year. Just padding really. No wife or kids.
I got the book on Friday, so I'll have a read of that to see if it tells me what he did.
I had a flick through and saw photos of him being handed up bottles as you would in a 24hr TT. Sid Ferris (former LE-JOG record holder) was one of them. It looks as if he was pretty well supported.

I don’t know how many of the 365 days of the year TG was actually riding. Can’t have been very much more than 100 given he has a day job!

Aukweb says Teethgrinder did 98 rides in 2007.  A lot of those are 600s and 800s, plus two 12s, a 14 and a 15, ie. multi-day events.

405 points at 15kph is 112 days. As I said, not very much more than 100 days.

Yes, 98 rides, average distance of about 400k. Quite often they were over distance too.
I rode almost every weekend, so that would be 100 days. Plus I used holiday from work and Bank Holidays. Then I did Tuesday nights for the last 2 months. I failed a 1500k ride after riding 900km of it too, so had a 4 day break because the 1500k would have bought me to a 200k event, but I packed at home, having gone to bed and slept almost solid for 36 hours. You can probably add another 30 days to the 100. The Tuesday night rides muddy the water a bit. It's hard to say exactly how many days I rode. Some days it wasn't worth me riding as far as points chasing was concerned. There were a few no ride days, such as the day before PBP and also the day of PBP (which started at night)
I have the stack of cards, but CBA to work out how many days. I rode about 28,500 miles in the 12 months including commuting, shopping and everything else, so about 6500 short of halfway while having to work 5 days a week, so probably on pace.

70,065 divided by 365 gives 192mpd where I probably did 207mpd (12 month total minus 1500 for commuting etc divded by 130)
It's only a guess though. It'd be too open to debate about how many days I rode and how many days I could have ridden and how much time I had available. It's not the same. For AUK you have to ride a minimum of 200k and enter the ride in advance. For mileating I can nip to the shops and bag an extra mile or two.

Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Euan Uzami on April 23, 2012, 11:30:19 pm
What you'd have to do would be to employ (or have sponsors employ) a secretary whose job it is to keep coming up with rides with as minimum overdistance as possible and put them on garmins for you (and possibly even also enter them as DIYs on auk). Then, with it all programmed up, someone would ride alongside and swap the old garmin for a new one, and then take the track off the old one and validate it. You'd then have the added bonus of it being a complete surprise each day where you were going that day. The swapover point needn't necessarily be the same place all the time, of course, either - and they might even be able to factor a few calendars in. The auk validation would also prevent guiness wriggling out of giving you the record.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: teethgrinder on April 23, 2012, 11:35:12 pm
I know the TV producer who produced the short feature on the two Tommys that was broadcast late last year. He is possibly interested in anyone who is prepared to have a go at the record as it would make a very good documentary. In fact we were considering pitching a programme on the history of the year record but there is zero footage to support it.

The guy who set out earlier this year really struggled with sponsorship. The record is dead in the public eye and all they care about is bloody celebrities who swim rivers and stuff. I felt that sponsorship momentum would build as the rider got further into the year and sponsors could see they were a serious and viable prospect. He unfortunately had no cycling track record and so his pitch to sponsors was not very compelling.


I'm definitely interested. Not prepared yet, but could be in time. I'm just about getting going after a bit of surgery last year, then a lurgy in December which lasted untill mid January.
Celebreties certainly are getting into this ultra marathon/endurance game. I was wondering if that may even help the cause by bringing that sort of thing into the public eye?
Getting sponsorsip would be the thing. All I have behind me is what I've done in Audax.

I'm definitely interested in what you have to say about it. Everything will do. Or do I have to wait for your book to come out. ;D

I certainly don't think it will be easy and doubt that I underestimate it. It was hard enough doing the Audax thing. I could at least get things sorted out during the week. Having my clothes, bikes and food ready 24/7 would be a very big help and having that done for me would be the way to go. I'd need to get bikes and equipment sorted out for something like this. It'd definitely need some serious planning. I'm interested to know how it was done and how it used to be done.
I'm curious about Tommy's eating. I was eating a lot when I was averaging about 100mpd while working 5 days a week. At least I had time to sit down and eat. But doing double the mileage! Did he drink butter from his bidon? The psychological side of things are pretty unnerving too. Having friends to ride with now and then would probably make all the difference. Otherwise, I'd be spending almost all of my time entirely alone, allthough I pretty much do that allready anyway.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on April 23, 2012, 11:38:27 pm
Wouldn't a sealed GPS tracker be of more use?  I think some forum member have experience of GPS trackers.

Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Veloman on April 24, 2012, 07:51:45 am
Wouldn't a sealed GPS tracker be of more use?  I think some forum member have experience of GPS trackers.

Might I suggest you contact Vin Cox:

http://www.greatbikeride.com/

He used a sealed GPS tracker for his round the world record ride and was very impressed with it.  It was also good enough for the GBR and he can also advise on such matters.

Went to see him talk about his ride last month and really liked how he adapted Look style cleated shoes into something you can sensibly walk in by sticking cut bits from a trainer sole onto nthe shoe.  Very approachable guy.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Jaded on April 24, 2012, 07:57:31 am
I think forcing the record to be done on pre-agreed routes might be too much. So he's done 190 miles agreed, but feels up to another 30. "Sorry, doesn't count".

The key thing would be recording the mileage, not prescribing where it is done.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on April 24, 2012, 11:06:45 am
Agreed.  Weather needs to be taken into account.

Funding would need to cover transport. TG's idea of making use of prevailing winds is a really good one, but relies on either public transport or a support car taking him back to the start every time.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: hubner on April 24, 2012, 01:13:35 pm
Quote
TG's idea of making use of prevailing winds is a really good one, but relies on either public transport or a support car taking him back to the start every time.

That's "cheating" isn't it?

If you're allowed to ride in any direction so you always (or mostly) ride with a tailwind, why not start every day at the top of a mountain? And then when you get to the bottom go back up in a car etc.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on April 24, 2012, 01:31:55 pm
Tommy was paced by packs of riders for some of his riding.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on April 24, 2012, 01:47:18 pm
There is nothing, other than the Highway Code, stopping motorpacing. The record is for distance ridden in a year, not the direction ridden, route taken or number of companions.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on April 24, 2012, 01:58:08 pm
I'm not sure how the prevailing wind theory will work.  206mpd (and there will need to be days when mileage is >250 in order to make up for days when the weather is too bad, etc, and the occasional day off will take between 12 hours (17.2mph) and 14 hours (14.7 mph) to do in the saddle plus a bit for food stops.  Given the paucity of overnight trains in the country - this would require someone to drive - 206 miles is 4 - 5 hours in a car/van (presumably at night).  TG is more likely to perish from a tired helper falling asleep at the wheel than he is from the event.

I think TG has a good view that food/eating and lack of company are likely to be tough things to overcome.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: clarion on April 24, 2012, 03:15:45 pm
There is nothing, other than the Highway Code, stopping motorpacing. The record is for distance ridden in a year, not thevdirection ridden, route taken or number of companions.

If it's to be a Guinness record, then they may have lots of silly conditions.  Similarly, if the UCI get involved, you can guarantee daftness of a high degree in the rulemaking.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on April 24, 2012, 03:22:57 pm
The UCI won't touch this record, so irrelevant.

Guinness are a law unto themselves but haven't added much needless restriction previously. In any case, they've already said they won't recognise any new records in this category, so who cares what they think.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: clarion on April 24, 2012, 03:29:33 pm
Fair enough, then.  It's a clear field.  But the Guinness name is always good for attracting sponsorship.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mattc on April 24, 2012, 05:45:35 pm
I'm not sure how the prevailing wind theory will work.  206mpd (and there will need to be days when mileage is >250 in order to make up for days when the weather is too bad, etc, and the occasional day off will take between 12 hours (17.2mph) and 14 hours (14.7 mph) to do in the saddle plus a bit for food stops.  Given the paucity of overnight trains in the country - this would require someone to drive - 206 miles is 4 - 5 hours in a car/van (presumably at night).  TG is more likely to perish from a tired helper falling asleep at the wheel than he is from the event.
You don't necessarily need overnight trains. Most routes run for around 18-20hours.

TG: "I think that one trick he did was to ride all day with a tailwind then catch a train back again as he slept, so that he could have a tailwind the next day."
My bold.

(I guess it would work best for those with a high-speed route running  a long way NE (or at least E) of home. I think TG is stuffed in this respect! )
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Feline on April 24, 2012, 05:50:46 pm
TG does have a network of people who would be prepared to help him though. I could certainly fit him and his bike in my car and dump him at the location of his choosing a few times!
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: teethgrinder on April 24, 2012, 07:36:23 pm
The UCI won't touch this record, so irrelevant.

Guinness are a law unto themselves but haven't added much needless restriction previously. In any case, they've already said they won't recognise any new records in this category, so who cares what they think.

Exactly that. There is always the Road Records Association, who run the End to End records. Or just doing it anyway. With media coverage and public interest, it should be reasonably well documented.

Being rejected by Guiness could work in my favour by being a part of the story. Too extreme for Guinness! (which seems daft when I've heard about Sir Ranulph Feinnes and his antics. I only want to go for a little big bike ride)

Quote
TG's idea of making use of prevailing winds is a really good one, but relies on either public transport or a support car taking him back to the start every time.

That's "cheating" isn't it?

If you're allowed to ride in any direction so you always (or mostly) ride with a tailwind, why not start every day at the top of a mountain? And then when you get to the bottom go back up in a car etc.

It'd need to be a very big mountain and it'd take some time to be driven back to the top again. I haven't done the maths, but doubt it would be much benefit. Ideally I'd want a 250 mile decent which I could do all day then get a lift back up as I slept all night. I can't think of any mountains that big. I suppose it could work if there was a big enough mountain which isn't too tricky, probably somewhere like Columbia I would guess. I wouldn't want to do it that way anyway.

Is it cheating? I haven't read the rules.

As for a tailwind, I think I'd go somewhere like the USA or Australia and pick up several thousand miles of desert plains with a tailwind. Cycling through Australian deserts in extreme heat wouldn't be easy, even with a tailwind, I would expect. I'd probably need a trailer to carry my water too. A very long way between watering holes in Oz, so I've heard. Australia is not something to be taken lightly! I think I'd prefer the USA. Even then, the weather can get very bad in the desert with sandstorms and flash floods.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Feline on April 24, 2012, 07:52:50 pm
Yes, and there could be snakes!
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Kim on April 24, 2012, 08:07:08 pm
Yes, and there could be snakes!

Even accounting for the generally homicidal nature of antipodean wildlife, I suspect that they'd have more to fear from a hungry teethgrinder than vice-versa...

Quote from: Mick Dundee
Well, you can live on it, but it taste like shit.


 ;D
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Citizenfish on April 24, 2012, 08:21:13 pm
teethgrinder - seriously, get in touch if you want to give it a go. I would be delighted to help as your experience would add tons to my research. My book will not be out for ages as I am not only looking into the history but also the logistics and issues surrounding a modern attempt.

I have the Guinness criteria - to summarise, you have to do it on a velodrome or track with time keepers. Forget them if you want to ride on roads as they will not recognise it. There is more to this, but not on a public forum.

I also contacted RRA last year, they will not recognise it either as they have a strict set of guidelines including pre-advertising routes and witnesses that they do not feel could apply to this record.

You would have to do it for the kudos as I believe you would find it very difficult to get into the formal record books. But remember that the record was never sanctioned by Guinness or the RRA, it was Cycling Magazines challenge and they ratified it.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Citizenfish on April 24, 2012, 08:22:00 pm
Tommy was paced by packs of riders for some of his riding.

Not many (rides) as far as I can ascertain.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Salvatore on April 24, 2012, 08:44:55 pm
Yes, and there could be snakes!
From the wikipedia page describing (later Sir) Hubert Opperman's record-breaking  2,875 mile Fremantle to Sydney ride:

Quote
Opperman recalled: "At one point, by the light of the car behind me, I could see a large snake in the wheel ruts, and I couldn't stop. All I could do was land the bike on top of it, hard. I suppose I must have killed it. Then, at Nanwarra Sands, I had to pick up the bike and carry it for 10 miles in the soft sand. We learned that I could gain time by sleeping for only 10 minutes at a time, something I have never forgotten."
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: rogerzilla on April 24, 2012, 09:34:43 pm
teethgrinder - seriously, get in touch if you want to give it a go. I would be delighted to help as your experience would add tons to my research. My book will not be out for ages as I am not only looking into the history but also the logistics and issues surrounding a modern attempt.

I have the Guinness criteria - to summarise, you have to do it on a velodrome or track with time keepers. Forget them if you want to ride on roads as they will not recognise it. There is more to this, but not on a public forum.

I also contacted RRA last year, they will not recognise it either as they have a strict set of guidelines including pre-advertising routes and witnesses that they do not feel could apply to this record.

You would have to do it for the kudos as I believe you would find it very difficult to get into the formal record books. But remember that the record was never sanctioned by Guinness or the RRA, it was Cycling Magazines challenge and they ratified it.
I wonder which current cycling rag (apart from Arrivee!) would be interested?  C+ is sportives, dentists on Pinarellos and poseurs.  The Comic is mainly news and race results.  There are smaller-circulation leisure cycling magazines, but it doesn't feel like their thing either.

If there were some kind of charity tie-in, it would be good but you couldn't really get personal funding that way.

Do you ride Brooks?  Do they sponsor people?
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on April 24, 2012, 09:47:29 pm
Brooks do sponsor people sometimes.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Bianchi Boy on April 24, 2012, 10:00:02 pm
In the discussions about ratification there is not a discussion on GPS. All the rides could be logged and all the miles counted. There could then be some verification on each ride by a witness, just to back up the tracklog. The details could then be logged almost every day and validated.

BB
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: rogerzilla on April 25, 2012, 08:25:32 am
There is - see above.  The only problem might be that some Garmin GPS units switch themselves off at random intervals  >:(
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Veloman on April 25, 2012, 08:49:12 am
There is - see above.  The only problem might be that some Garmin GPS units switch themselves off at random intervals  >:(

No problem, just bin the Garmin as you don't need it anyway.

Already discussed sealed GPS tracker units as used by Vin Cox that would also allow us all to track the rider as well.  (See my previous post above)
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Mr Larrington on April 25, 2012, 11:26:22 am
As for a tailwind, I think I'd go somewhere like the USA or Australia and pick up several thousand miles of desert plains with a tailwind. Cycling through Australian deserts in extreme heat wouldn't be easy, even with a tailwind, I would expect. I'd probably need a trailer to carry my water too. A very long way between watering holes in Oz, so I've heard. Australia is not something to be taken lightly! I think I'd prefer the USA. Even then, the weather can get very bad in the desert with sandstorms and flash floods.

A chap I know from PBP 2007 and various fora rode unsupported around Oz in 49  days crazyguyonabike.com: Bicycle Touring: A Lap of Australia, by Pete Heal (http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?doc_id=6814).
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: rogerzilla on July 08, 2012, 12:00:55 pm
What's the latest on this, TG?  Citizenfish was looking for you at the start of the Dun Run (presumably you were eatuing somewhere).
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: teethgrinder on July 08, 2012, 03:52:51 pm
I'd gone before he saw me, then he charged off after me. He must have passed me, possibly while I was at the petrol garage or pub, because he finished about 6 hours before I did.
We'll try and meet again. Trying to find a cyclist among about 1000 other cyclists wasn't the best plan. I don't think it helped that the usual YACF meeting place was out of service and we were scattered around.
I am thinking about it. In the beginning of building up a stock of bikes and clothes for a go. I've a few old frames I want to get back on the road again, but some of them need brazing, or possibly binning. I hope to see Dave Yates before the end of the year for at least one new frame. I'd probably use gears but I want to do some proper riding with gears next year. I haven't done much riding with gears in the last decade or so.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: rogerzilla on July 08, 2012, 06:31:57 pm
I don't have a Sturmey-Archer AF lying around, or I'd build one up into a wheel for you, so you could be like Tommy Godwin  ;)  It's an inefficient hub in low gear, which makes Godwin's achievement more remarkable.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Laid Back Rich on June 13, 2013, 12:42:37 am
I just stumbled onto this thread, any recent developments TG?
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Chuffy on June 13, 2013, 10:02:13 am
On the subject of (modest) sponsorship and exposure, I reckon road.cc might be interested.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: mattc on June 13, 2013, 01:25:13 pm
TG has written extensively about his latest thoughts/position:

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=72564.msg1498890#msg1498890
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: slohill on June 19, 2013, 10:03:19 pm
teethgrinder - seriously, get in touch if you want to give it a go. I would be delighted to help as your experience would add tons to my research. My book will not be out for ages as I am not only looking into the history but also the logistics and issues surrounding a modern attempt.

I have the Guinness criteria - to summarise, you have to do it on a velodrome or track with time keepers. Forget them if you want to ride on roads as they will not recognise it. There is more to this, but not on a public forum.

I also contacted RRA last year, they will not recognise it either as they have a strict set of guidelines including pre-advertising routes and witnesses that they do not feel could apply to this record.

You would have to do it for the kudos as I believe you would find it very difficult to get into the formal record books. But remember that the record was never sanctioned by Guinness or the RRA, it was Cycling Magazines challenge and they ratified it.



Would it not be appropriate for Audax---the long distance cyclists association---to set out some simple criteria for this record?
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: teethgrinder on June 19, 2013, 10:22:22 pm
We've had a chat about it.
He'd really like a definite year which I can't give.
I was hoping for 2014, but the only way that will happen is if I get sponsorship. I'm not entirely keen on that because there is the chance of them pulling out. I'd expect to start the year behind the required average mileage and make up for it in the summer, just as Tommy Godwin did, which may make any sponsors feel edgy. Plus I'm not exactly confident that I would succeed.

When we did chat it did act as a bit of a wake up call to see if I could fund it myself.
I think that 2015 is a possibilty. I was hoping to get the fast bike for this at least started by now but I'm still trying to get some money together for that. I thought I'd at least have a frame or pair of wheels by now, but haven't got either.
After I've done the 24hr and LEL and had some fun getting some miles in (I'm thinking of trying to match Tommy's best week of about 2100 miles in August, among other rides I want to do) I'll look into finding evening work and maybe weekend work to see if I can get some money together. So I'll have a better idea when I see how much cash I can rake in.
My aim is to have all the bikes an equipment ready before 2014.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: JordanCarroll on January 07, 2014, 01:39:48 am
Bump for Justice.

Is there any progress with this TG? Would definitely be interested to hear!
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: teethgrinder on January 07, 2014, 08:44:09 pm
Not much yet. :(
I think I've solved the "what tyres to use" problem and will try some tubeless tyres, once I have the money to get the wheels (plus brakes and new forks to use disk brakes) so should have the bike up and running sometime in February.
Then it's a matter of getting the money together which I'm almost starting on.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: trumpet on January 07, 2014, 08:58:24 pm
This months Cycling Plus has a feature on the record ride. Even claiming on a modern machine Tommy may have covered over 90,000 miles !
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: JordanCarroll on January 08, 2014, 11:40:27 am
^^Gotcha, sounds good :) keep us posted!
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: rogerzilla on January 01, 2015, 04:23:12 pm
I've moved this topic into the TG record board because, well, it's where it all began.
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: hellymedic on January 01, 2015, 07:21:39 pm
Does that make me guilty of this whole affair?  ;) ;D
Title: Re: A Record Too Dangerous to Break...
Post by: Datameister on January 02, 2015, 12:06:30 pm
Does that make me guilty of this whole affair?  ;) ;D

.....as charged