Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Freewheeling => Racing => Topic started by: Pip on June 11, 2012, 01:17:18 pm

Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Pip on June 11, 2012, 01:17:18 pm
I have hazy memories of the summer 46 years ago when England won the World Cup.
Bobby Moore, Bobby Charlton, Geoff Hurst and Nobby Stiles became household names and idols to eight year old boys like myself.

In the world of cricket, Boycott and Edrich were the opening pair for England, and West Indian Gary Sobers was acknowledged to be the world's best all rounder.

Another often-heard name in those childhood summers was that of Tommy Simpson. In an era when Football and Rugby were played in the winter and  Cricket and Tennis was the only summer fare, in this alternative sport of cycling, Simpson's progress in the Tour was relayed back to us in Blighty by radio broadcast and maybe a mention in the sports part of the BBC's Six O'clock News. In 1966, Simpson finished second in two stages of the Tour before crashing out on a mountain descent.

The following year of course, Tommy died on the slopes of Ventoux.  This event acted as a catalyst for me to check up on the progress of British riders in ensuing renewals of the race, gradually becoming more absorbed and enthralled by the event, despite all its vicissitudes.

And now, after such a long span of time, we have an Englishman, Bradley Wiggins, who is favourite to win the Tour.

The parcours, with much TTing, favours him to a certain extent, and his form and the form and strength of his team is excellent. So let's hope that he can avoid mishap and arrive in Paris in July wearing the yellow jersey and thus inspire a new generation of youngsters to appreciate
the excitement and  benefits of cycling
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Simonb on June 11, 2012, 01:29:49 pm
Yep. Can't wait!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on June 11, 2012, 02:30:48 pm
I've been pondering Dave Brailsford's bold claim when Team Sky was launched that a Brit would win the Tour within five years, which we all thought sounded a bit far-fetched at the time... how things change.

I'm trying to stay level-headed about it. Cadel Evans is still a major threat, and those two are far from being the only contenders. Sky dominated in the Dauphiné, but it will be a lot harder to do the same in the Tour. The main difference so far between Sky and The Rest is that Sky have treated the races they've entered as proper races, rather than glorified training sessions.

The talk of Wiggins peaking too early is patent nonsense though. He's clearly still following an upward trajectory and the only times he's shown any sign of going into the red have been in the individual time trials.

Then again, we can't forget what happened last year...

But as long as he stays upright, I can see Wiggo not only winning the Tour but also becoming individual time trial World Champion in September. (Not to mention the possibility of Sky becoming team time trial World Champions.)

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on June 11, 2012, 02:54:09 pm
Bradley could stop off in his birthplace of Ghent if Team Sky take the Zeebrugge ferry. Its on the route from there to start in Liege. I'm supporting him because Cath is in the same club as me, I've ridden in the same event as Brad, and his home is about 5 miles from here. I don't do the patriotism bit though.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on June 12, 2012, 12:24:01 am
With Heather being a Swift,and her family originating from Cawthorne near Barnsley, we're following Ben Swift in the Tour de Suisse, where the lad got a third place in a sprint. http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,25694_7807035,00.html
That shows the strength in depth of Sky.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on June 12, 2012, 12:30:52 pm
Bradley could stop off in his birthplace of Ghent if Team Sky take the Zeebrugge ferry.

Why do you keep banging on about that?!! You're starting to sound like Nick Griffin with your obsession with peoples origins  :P

This could end up as one hell of a season for Wiggo. SPOTY dead cert if he comes good! I wonder if bets can be placed on that yet!?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Bledlow on June 12, 2012, 12:47:51 pm
 ??? Isn't it a traditional thing on the tour, to stop off in one's birthplace or home town if the race goes through it? I remember Sean Yates doing it in 1994
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on June 12, 2012, 12:51:39 pm
??? Isn't it a traditional thing on the tour, to stop off in one's birthplace or home town if the race goes through it? I remember Sean Yates doing it in 1994

It's certainly traditional to allow any rider passing through his home town to do so on the front of the bunch. This year's tour does not pass through where Bradley Wiggins was born...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nuncio on June 12, 2012, 12:56:24 pm
This could end up as one hell of a season for Wiggo. SPOTY dead cert if he comes good! I wonder if bets can be placed on that yet!?

Currently second to Jessica Ennis, at around 6-1 as opposed to JE's 3-1.

This weekend's 600km passed through my village.  I thought it the right thing to do to lead the pack through there but there was no cheering throng - not even a wife or child.  It was about 05:20, but still...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on June 12, 2012, 01:06:23 pm
Bradley could stop off in his birthplace of Ghent if Team Sky take the Zeebrugge ferry.

Why do you keep banging on about that?!! You're starting to sound like Nick Griffin with your obsession with peoples origins  :P

This could end up as one hell of a season for Wiggo. SPOTY dead cert if he comes good! I wonder if bets can be placed on that yet!?

There are two aspects to the Sky team. One continues the work that lottery funding has done in promoting our international excellence, especially in women's cycling. The other is as a typical Pro team with riders of many nationalities. Brad is interesting in that he straddles both worlds, as an Olympic Gold Medallist, and as someone who was born to be a pro. He can wrap himself in the flag  if he wants to, but he has also served his time of French and US pro teams. The same can be said of Cavendish. I like pro-cycling's muliti-national aspect. I tend to identify with big rouleurs rather than nationality. My sympathies lie with the lads in the 'autobus' no matter what country they come from. Climbers and sprinters are not of my people.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Andrew on June 12, 2012, 01:09:07 pm
I reckon it's this year or maybe never for Wiggins. He's in top form, the course suits him (loads of TT kms and not as mountainous as some previous) and perhaps he currently has a psychological edge too. Not to underestimate Evans but he will have his work cut out given he's at a TT disadvantage.

Next year, Contador will be back and, who knows, praps Schleck Jnr will have even trained for it! Nice to think Wiggins might be defending his title though.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nuncio on June 13, 2012, 08:38:40 am
I see some teams are announcing their TdF long lists of 13 or 14 riders, but not Sky yet.  So how about some idle speculation?  I’d suggest

Wiggins - natch
Froome – not only as super dom but also as Plan B should anything befall BW
Cavendish
Eisel – Cav’s only minder
Stannard - first week chaser of breaks
EBH
Porte
Uran

And one from Rogers, Siutsou, Knees, Lofkvist. I think I’d go for Lofkvist.   Given that this may be Wiggins' best chance for overall, Cavendish and Eisel almost look like luxuries, and he'd be better served by those on my reserve list.  But I don't see it happening.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on June 13, 2012, 09:41:55 am
It's just fantastic that we have bona fide contenders across all cycling disciplines now.

I used to love the tour but having  Brits in there who could actually win it is like the difference between watching Horse Racing and having a bet on a Horse, it raises the interest level.

Unlike ESL I do feel a bit of nationalistic pride  about the British riders.  It's a clear example of what we can do when we put our mind to it.  Team GB Cycling is a world leader, a centre of excellence that needs to be studied and copied.

It shows what not-really-that-much-money can achieve as long as you have the right people, with some vision and a passion for excellence, in charge.

The long-term spin-off from Team GB Cycling will be (is already) more exposure, to the public, of cycling and an uptake of cycling as a mainstream activity. 

Dave Brailsford and his team should be paid to set up Team GB Science & Engineering establishments, so maybe in 20 years we'd be world leaders there as well.

So yes ,I can't wait to cheer on the Brits in the tour.  Froome and Wiggins will make a great duo, possibly riding like the Schlecks.

I think Cav will have some tough races this time around.  If he can bag 4 stage wins riding with this team then he is clearly the best sprinter there has ever been because everyone will be marking him.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: JT on June 13, 2012, 10:51:10 am
So yes ,I can't wait to cheer on the Brits in the tour.  Froome and Wiggins will make a great duo, possibly riding like the Schlecks.

Jebus, I hope not.  ;D

Speaking of the Schlecks... Andy out of the Tour after fracturing a vertebra in his Dauphiné crash.  :o
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on June 13, 2012, 10:58:55 am
Speaking of the Schlecks... Andy out of the Tour after fracturing a vertebra in his Dauphiné crash.  :o

Hmm. Although I've been happy to join in the merciless piss-taking of his performances so far this season, I am genuinely sorry about this. The race will be poorer without him.

As for nationalistic pride, I'm just happy to see that Britain is finally a genuine competitor on the world stage - it can only be good for the profile of the sport here and that has to be a good thing for those of us who enjoy both watching and participating in the support. It may come as a surprise to some people but amazingly, getting behind riders from my home nation/team isn't incompatible with continuing to admire and support riders from other nations/teams - this is cycling we're talking about, not football.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on June 13, 2012, 11:30:52 am

As for nationalistic pride, I'm just happy to see that Britain is finally a genuine competitor on the world stage - it can only be good for the profile of the sport here and that has to be a good thing for those of us who enjoy both watching and participating in the support. It may come as a surprise to some people but amazingly, getting behind riders from my home nation/team isn't incompatible with continuing to admire and support riders from other nations/teams - this is cycling we're talking about, not football.

d.


It certainly projects a more positive view of News International than we see on P&OBI.

http://www.teamsky.com/article/1,27290,25694_7809304,00.html
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on June 13, 2012, 11:40:48 am
I see some teams are announcing their TdF long lists of 13 or 14 riders, but not Sky yet.  So how about some idle speculation?  I’d suggest

Wiggins - natch
Froome – not only as super dom but also as Plan B should anything befall BW
Cavendish
Eisel – Cav’s only minder
Stannard - first week chaser of breaks
EBH
Porte
Uran

And one from Rogers, Siutsou, Knees, Lofkvist. I think I’d go for Lofkvist.   Given that this may be Wiggins' best chance for overall, Cavendish and Eisel almost look like luxuries, and he'd be better served by those on my reserve list.  But I don't see it happening.

I'd add Pate to your list. He rode well in the Dauphine.

Lovkvist is going very well in Switzerland, Barry and Nordhaug are looking strong too, so they must all be in strong contention. Zandio is a first-rate climbing domestique too.

Kennaugh, Hunt and Flecha must also be under consideration...

I reckon there are seven places in the Tour squad nailed on, with the final two to be chosen from a dozen contenders... Talk about strength in depth.

1. Wiggins
2. Cavendish
3. EBH
4. Eisel
5. Froome
6. Porte
7. Uran
8. ...
9. ...

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on June 13, 2012, 11:43:22 am
It certainly projects a more positive view of News International than we see on P&OBI.

News International ≠ BSkyB ≠ Sky ProCycling

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: JT on June 13, 2012, 11:50:21 am
I'd add Pate to your list. He rode well in the Dauphine.

Lovkvist is going very well in Switzerland, Barry and Nordhaug are looking strong too, so they must all be in strong contention. Zandio is a first-rate climbing domestique too.

Kennaugh, Hunt and Flecha must also be under consideration...

I reckon there are seven places in the Tour squad nailed on, with the final two to be chosen from a dozen contenders... Talk about strength in depth.

1. Wiggins
2. Cavendish
3. EBH
4. Eisel
5. Froome
6. Porte
7. Uran
8. ...
9. ...

d.

Kennaugh is in the endurance squad for the Olympics (track) so forget him.
Uran, Hunt and Flecha all rode the Giro so forget them.
Lovkvist isn't good enough.


Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on June 13, 2012, 11:54:04 am
It certainly projects a more positive view of News International than we see on P&OBI.

News International ≠ BSkyB ≠ Sky ProCycling

d.

You're quite right, I misread News Corporation on the Sky Procycling website sponsor list at the bottom of the page. I always get News Corporation and News International confused. But that's what sposorship is about, fostering brand identity.
http://www.teamsky.com/article/1,27290,25694_7809304,00.html
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on June 13, 2012, 12:01:38 pm
Still not really the point, though.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on June 13, 2012, 12:06:39 pm
Kennaugh is in the endurance squad for the Olympics (track) so forget him.

Of course. Forgot about that.

Quote
Uran, Hunt and Flecha all rode the Giro so forget them.
Lovkvist isn't good enough.

Hmmm. Well, I bow to your superior knowledge on these matters... Of course, Stannard also rode the Giro, so by the same reckoning, you'd have to cross him off the list too.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on June 13, 2012, 12:21:07 pm
I suppose Cav's contending for the points jersey at the Giro will have left him out of contention at for the Green Jersey.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on June 13, 2012, 12:26:23 pm
I suppose Cav's contending for the points jersey at the Giro will have left him out of contention at for the Green Jersey.

Different for sprinters, innit?

I take JT's point, and on the whole, it seems to be backed up by the shortlists named by some other teams... Uran would be a strange omission for Sky though.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: JT on June 13, 2012, 12:28:50 pm
I suppose Cav's contending for the points jersey at the Giro will have left him out of contention at for the Green Jersey.

Not the same kind of riding at all, smart arse.

It's the guys that have been in Tenerife for months on end who'll be at the Tour.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Andrew on June 13, 2012, 01:23:34 pm
Speaking of the Schlecks... Andy out of the Tour after fracturing a vertebra in his Dauphiné crash.  :o

Hmm. Although I've been happy to join in the merciless piss-taking of his performances so far this season, I am genuinely sorry about this. The race will be poorer without him.

Agreed.

I didn't realise he was that badly hurt in the c rash. I thought he was using it as an excuse to cut his losses. My apologies to you Schleck Jnr (in the unlikely event you ever read this!)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on June 13, 2012, 01:29:20 pm
Sky certainly reflect the realities of British economic performance.
Quote
In response to the Team Sky questioning, Team Garmin-Barracuda manager Jonathan Vaughters took to Twitter and commented, "not sure why ppl are surprised by sky:a few €800k guys pulling a €900k guy, who then pulls for a €1.3m guy,who helps a €2m guy."

For all the sly comments regarding Wiggins becoming a real grand tour threat you first need to look at the mechanism behind the man. Team Sky has one of the richest budgets in professional cycling. And to quote Vaughters again, "they aren't doping, they are buying up talent."

http://www.roadcycling.com/articles/Tour-de-Drama_004932.shtml

One of the sponsors are IG Markets.
http://www.igmarkets.co.uk/cfd/cycling.html
Quote
IG Markets is the leading provider of Contracts for Difference (CFDs) to retail clients around the globe.

What is CFD trading?

CFD trading enables you to take a position on thousands of different financial markets, without physically needing to own the underlying asset. This means you can trade on the value of a share (without owning the stock), or on the price of gold or oil (without purchasing the commodity itself).

I'm intensely relaxed about speculative globalised capitalism paying the going rate to secure the talent needed to ensure success. I'm not averse to a bit of jingoism on top of that. Underneath all that we are still talking about people, and I like Bradley's style, and I'd like to see him win the Tour.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on June 13, 2012, 01:35:04 pm
So yes ,I can't wait to cheer on the Brits in the tour.  Froome and Wiggins will make a great duo, possibly riding like the Schlecks.

Jebus, I hope not.  ;D

Speaking of the Schlecks... Andy out of the Tour after fracturing a vertebra in his Dauphiné crash.  :o

Meanwhile, Dave Brailsford is laughing maniacally and pin in hand, contemplating a selection of dolls, each bearing an uncanny resemblance to the likely GC contenders for Le Tour...  :demon:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on June 13, 2012, 01:43:28 pm
Quote
Michael Rogers is likely to be an invaluable super domestic for Wiggins at the Tour de France after he backed up his win from the previous week at Bayern-Rundfahrt with a second place at the Dauphine
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Karla on June 13, 2012, 02:00:52 pm
Speaking of the Schlecks... Andy out of the Tour after fracturing a vertebra in his Dauphiné crash.  :o

Oh dear, it's been a bit on an annus horibilis for Andy Schleck hasn't it? 

I'll go with Michael Rogers for the last Sky spot, for the reasons just given.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on June 13, 2012, 02:08:04 pm
I think Rogers is unlikely.

Quote
Rogers joined T-Mobile Team for the 2006 season, and finished 9th overall in the 2006 Tour de France.
 
On 15 July, Rogers withdrew on the 8th stage of the 2007 Tour after breaking a collar bone in a crash descending the Cormet de Roseland. He continued until the doctor arrived from attending fellow Australian Stuart O'Grady, who ended up stretchered to hospital.
 
It was after this that Rogers contracted mononucleosis (glandular fever), which caused a dip in his racing form for some time. By late 2009 he had returned to form and began to have significant racing success, with Team Columbia-High Road, the successor to T-Mobile. In 2010, as leader of his team, he won the Tour of Andalucia, and then the Tour of California (the first non-American to do so).
 
After a disappointing 2010 Tour de France (37th overall), Rogers announced he would concentrate in future on shorter races (e.g. one week in length) as he was no longer suited to the longer tours.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Rogers_(cyclist)

Froome can do the same job for Brad, and he's had more recent good form in a Grand Tour at the Vuelta. Rogers highlights the fragility of form at the top, his background is similar to Brad's
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nuncio on June 13, 2012, 02:38:58 pm
Oh dear, it's been a bit on an annus horibilis for Andy Schleck hasn't it? 
Apart from winning the 2010 Tour de France, yes.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on June 13, 2012, 02:43:39 pm
Oh dear, it's been a bit on an annus horibilis for Andy Schleck hasn't it? 
Apart from winning the 2010 Tour de France, yes.

 ;D

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: sg37409 on June 14, 2012, 04:45:02 pm
I think the timing and scale of the latest drug revelations including the fact bruyneel is under investigation also will help give the cleanest tour in a long time.
Probably Wiggins best shot ever. (since his last best shot ever)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: hatler on June 19, 2012, 06:06:14 pm
I think the timing and scale of the latest drug revelations including the fact bruyneel is under investigation also will help give the cleanest tour in a long time.
Probably Wiggins best shot ever. (since his last best shot ever)
Ladbrokes certainly seem to think so. He's 5/4 at the moment. That's not great odds.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nuncio on June 19, 2012, 09:02:07 pm
I think Rogers is unlikely.

http://www.ridemedia.com.au/?p=6440

Rogers would appear to disagree.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nuncio on June 20, 2012, 01:12:47 pm

Quote
Team Sky ‏@TeamSky
Stay tuned as @TeamSky will be announcing our nine-man line-up for the Tour de France tomorrow. #TdF
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Pip on June 21, 2012, 07:11:18 am
Peter Sagan favourite for the green jersey in front of Cav.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Karla on June 21, 2012, 11:18:46 am
I'm not surprised, I'd said the same.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nuncio on June 21, 2012, 01:26:25 pm
Kennaugh is in the endurance squad for the Olympics (track) so forget him.

Of course. Forgot about that.

Quote
Uran, Hunt and Flecha all rode the Giro so forget them.
Lovkvist isn't good enough.

Hmmm. Well, I bow to your superior knowledge on these matters... Of course, Stannard also rode the Giro, so by the same reckoning, you'd have to cross him off the list too.

d.

From the Sky website
Quote
Bradley Wiggins will lead the team after his consecutive victories at Paris-Nice, Tour de Romandie and Critérium du Dauphiné, and will be joined by Edvald Boasson Hagen, Mark Cavendish, Bernhard Eisel, Chris Froome, Christian Knees, Richie Porte, Michael Rogers and Kanstantsin Siutsou.

JT's superior knowledge wins.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on June 21, 2012, 01:36:04 pm
SWMBO has come good again and we will be at the team presentation, sat somewhere on the prologue route and sat somewhere on the stage 1 route that is within walking distance of the city centre cheering everyone on but cheering exeprtionaly loudly for Team Sky and the rest of the Brit pack.

Is anyone else going to be in Liege for commencement of battle?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on June 21, 2012, 01:37:09 pm
JT's superior knowledge wins.

Indeed. I wasn't being sarcastic before about JT's superior knowledge. Just in case anyone thinks I was. I've read enough of his posts here to trust his judgment on this subject.

No real surprises in that team selection, then. Rogers certainly does appear to be in the form of his life.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Karla on June 21, 2012, 01:40:58 pm
SWMBO has come good again and we will be at the team presentation, sat somewhere on the prologue route and sat somewhere on the stage 1 route that is within walking distance of the city centre cheering everyone on but cheering exeprtionaly loudly for Team Sky and the rest of the Brit pack.

Is anyone else going to be in Liege for commencement of battle?

I am.  I'll get there the night before, watch the prologue and catch the start of Stage 1 before rushing for the Zeebrugge ferry.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on June 21, 2012, 02:24:02 pm
No real surprises in that team selection, then. Rogers certainly does appear to be in the form of his life.

d.

Rogers came 9th in 2006 and crashed on the Cormet de Roesland in 2007 while he was leader on the road. He had a disappointing 2010 after contracting mononucleosis. He's confined himself to shorter tours since then, as it never goes away fully. It's probably been judged that without the pressure of leading a team he can cope with that. If it works out he will be the ideal lieutenant to Wiggins, if it doesn't work out the team is one man down.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: ran doner on June 21, 2012, 09:55:09 pm
Rogers is in then.

Team looks like it is leaning towards Wiggins not Cav. Cav has already said he won't win as many stages as previously as he is shedding weight to get up box hill 9 times.

Uran being saved for Vuelta ?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on June 22, 2012, 08:26:30 am
SWMBO has come good again and we will be at the team presentation, sat somewhere on the prologue route and sat somewhere on the stage 1 route that is within walking distance of the city centre cheering everyone on but cheering exeprtionaly loudly for Team Sky and the rest of the Brit pack.

Is anyone else going to be in Liege for commencement of battle?

I am.  I'll get there the night before, watch the prologue and catch the start of Stage 1 before rushing for the Zeebrugge ferry.

I shall keep my open for you then. I shall be adorned in a black Cannondale baseball cap and trying not to look like filth on tour :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on June 22, 2012, 10:51:11 am
I believe Simonb & family are going over as well.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on June 22, 2012, 11:44:31 am
More folk to try and identify :D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Karla on June 22, 2012, 11:46:07 am
It'd be good to say hi to him actually, is he on here anymore?
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: ran doner on June 22, 2012, 07:15:38 pm
SWMBO has come good again and we will be at the team presentation, sat somewhere on the prologue route and sat somewhere on the stage 1 route that is within walking distance of the city centre cheering everyone on but cheering exeprtionaly loudly for Team Sky and the rest of the Brit pack.

Is anyone else going to be in Liege for commencement of battle?

I'm heading out on Eurostar to Brussels Friday afternoon then train into liege on Saturday morning. Probably spend most of the time milling round team buses, start and finish in the parc.

Will wear white Team Sky polo shirt with tour issue Skoda floppy hat. Although want a carrefour hat from the caravan.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: simonb on June 23, 2012, 10:21:44 am
I'm back!  ;D

We're going over; not for the Prologue, but for stages 2 and 3. Looks like the weather might finally be warming up!

Anyone know how easy it is to get close to the riders? Our youngest is keen to get Cav's autograph.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: sg37409 on June 23, 2012, 12:55:42 pm
Delighted to read that bruyneel won't be at the tour. 

I think the timing and scale of the latest drug revelations including the fact bruyneel is under investigation also will help give the cleanest tour in a long time.

Theres been a couple of great interviews of Wiggins on the BBC,  he seems to be confident in himself and his team.
I feel theres a danger of unrealistic expectations of Cav given his last few tours, 1 stage win would be a good tour, 2 would be a excellent one and anything more would make it a fantastic tour. 
I've never really been a "fan boy" of any one team or rider before, but with Sky and Wiggins, I'll make an exception.

And, off-topic, Go Nicole Cook !
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: clifftaylor on June 23, 2012, 02:07:38 pm
Wiggins stands a very good chance of a podium, if not the win -  I do wish he'd stop making "Lance is / was great" statements though.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on June 29, 2012, 07:19:59 am
My predictions -

1. Wiggins
2. Evans
3. Nibali
4. Schleck F
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on June 29, 2012, 07:31:22 am
I feel theres a danger of unrealistic expectations of Cav given his last few tours, 1 stage win would be a good tour, 2 would be a excellent one and anything more would make it a fantastic tour. 

He says he's focussing on the Olympics but I don't think that means he won't be trying to win stages or the green jersey - just that he won't go into the red to do so.

Also, the loss of power from his dieting regime may mean he wins different kind of stages than we're used to seeing him win. I read a CW piece yesterday that made the Sean Kelly comparison...

Anyway, yes, like you say, one or two stage wins in the TdF would be a massive achievement in anyone's book - funny to think that we're so used to Cav winning that we might consider that a disappointment.

Still expecting him to give it everything on the Champs Élysées though, but suspect he might be pipped by Goss or Greipel.

Quote
And, off-topic, Go Nicole Cook !

+1

d.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: ran doner on June 29, 2012, 07:37:04 am

Anyone know how easy it is to get close to the riders? Our youngest is keen to get Cav's autograph.

Depends on where the team buses are in relation to start/finish. Getting in between the Riders's route back to the buses is often a good ploy especially with tt/prologues as you get the chance to stop them individually and a few will come and chat. Millar stopped to talk for ages in Rotterdam even though it was raining. Usual banal fan boy questions/comments that they must hear every day from us. Lots of guys will stop for a photo.

Cav might be tuff as he 'will' win stage 2 although 3 might see him in the autobus.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: JT on June 29, 2012, 10:03:46 am
Anyone know how easy it is to get close to the riders? Our youngest is keen to get Cav's autograph.

At the start of TDF stages the team buses are normally in a fenced area inaccessible to the general public. Most times the buses are parked near enough to the fencing that it's possiblle to wait there and the riders will oftern come over and sign things. When Cav was with HTC he was excellent at this and would make his way down the line making sure no one got left out.

Team Sky generally aren't so good. They will often stay on the bus as late as possible only to emerge when it's time to go and sign-on. Like most teams, this is particularly the case if the weather is poor (rain) or very hot.

After a stage, the buses are accessible (just parked in the roads close to the finish line) but at this point in the day riders just want to get on the bus so you'll have to be quite pushy to get in their way. If Cav has won the stage you'll have no chance as the bus will probably leave him to travel to the team hotel in one of the team cars.

Wherever you choose to try and get autographs, have a pen and something to sign, and make sure you and your youngest shout very loudly at whoever you want to come over as soon as they emerge from the bus. If it's Cav, shout "Cav" - not Mark. If it's Wiggo, shout "Brad". They are both very good at discerning British voices. If you see Dave Brailsford shout over at him and say your youngest would like an autograph. He's very good with punters and is really into the whole "inspiring the public "thing. Sky have two PR people, Fran Millar, (dark haired, will probably be behaving like she's above dealing with the public), and Nick Howes, young dark haired lad from Leeds (very friendly). It's worth shouting at them too - they're PR people so they are used to responding to random people calling out their name.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Andrew on June 29, 2012, 10:12:05 am
I feel theres a danger of unrealistic expectations of Cav given his last few tours, 1 stage win would be a good tour, 2 would be a excellent one and anything more would make it a fantastic tour. 

He says he's focussing on the Olympics but I don't think that means he won't be trying to win stages or the green jersey - just that he won't go into the red to do so.

Agreed. I think he made the decision to focus on the Olympics months ago, probably at the beginning of the year even (remember Brailsford saying that both Cavendish and Wiggins had to prioritise this year?).

I think he's taking a 'we'll see what happens' approach at the tour. Day at a time sort of thing. Maybe if he gets a couple of stages, places, picks up points then maybe... but frankly I'm not even expecting him to finish.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: JT on June 29, 2012, 10:43:00 am
I think he'll finish. Look how strong he's been in Paris these last few years.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on June 29, 2012, 10:50:25 am
I think he'll finish. Look how strong he's been in Paris these last few years.

Exactly. How much would he love to make it four out of four? And while wearing the rainbow stripes? He'll be there.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: GrahamG on June 29, 2012, 10:58:11 am
If he completes the tour, then goes and gets a medal in London, he will be officially ranked as well 'ard. Two grand tours in the champs stripes and still going for olympic medal is impressive.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: simonb on June 29, 2012, 01:14:31 pm
Good luck!

Excellent. And thank you very much!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on June 29, 2012, 01:18:20 pm
Today's Sport magazine has an A-Z of the Tour, in which M is for Mark Cavendish. There's a mini interview with Cav...

Quote
Would you ever pull out of the Tour to make sure you're ready for the Olympics?
"No, only if I get eliminated by a time cut or... no, I'll finish the Tour de France. I pulled out in my first year as a pro after a week, but I wasn't ready for the Tour. Then in 2008, I stopped for the Olympics and since then I've finished it every time."

Do you regret stopping for the Olympics?
"Yeah, I never made a secret of that. I'll never do it again."

Seems pretty definitive.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Séamas M. on June 30, 2012, 04:30:39 pm
Spartacus!

He's back!

 8)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fungus on June 30, 2012, 04:37:29 pm
Can we use the spoiler symbol please,  I've seen the result already but others may not have.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on June 30, 2012, 05:09:54 pm
Can we use the spoiler symbol please,  I've seen the result already but others may not have.

Anyone desperately trying to avoid finding out the results would be a fucking idiot to come to a cycling forum and open a topic entitled "Tour de France 2012"!!

Anyway...

Amazing that Wiggo made up 6 seconds in the second half of his ride.

Even more amazing that Spartacus beat everyone by over 7 seconds.

Tony Martin... If only...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on June 30, 2012, 05:27:35 pm
Conditions seemed blustery and variable, so split times were a poor indicator of the final time. The flags and windblown litter told the story.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Auntie Helen on June 30, 2012, 06:11:56 pm
Really disappointed with Tony Martin's puncture - would have been a fantastically close finish otherwise.

Hamburger Abendblatt reckons he lost 23 seconds with that, although the commentary said 15.
Quote
Der Zeitfahr-Weltmeister musste am Sonnabend im Prolog über 6,4 Kilometer in Lüttich nach der Hälfte der Strecke wegen eines „Plattfußes“ das Rad wechseln und war mit 23 Sekunden Rückstand im Kampf um den ersten Tagessieg der 99.
Puncture caused by a piece of glass, apparently.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on June 30, 2012, 08:49:27 pm
Spartacus: brilliant
Martin: unlucky
Wiggo: job done

The ride that really sticks out for me is Tejay - looking very promising.

Pleased to see Chavanel up there too.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fungus on June 30, 2012, 08:50:05 pm
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Pip on June 30, 2012, 09:01:27 pm
A terrific start by Philippe Gilbert to eclipse his team captain Cadel Evans. Tomorrow's stage finish should suit him and I think we'll see a big improvement on his 38th place @ 1 hour 14mins final placing of last year.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on June 30, 2012, 10:32:24 pm
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on June 30, 2012, 11:34:26 pm
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Thor on July 01, 2012, 01:53:21 pm
Stage 1 has been underway for some time now and is being covered live on Eurosport.  ITV4 are still showing yesterday's prologue  ::-)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 01, 2012, 01:59:28 pm
Stage 1 has been underway for some time now and is being covered live on Eurosport.  ITV4 are still showing yesterday's prologue  ::-)

That's about par for the course - factoring in ad breaks,  the first 10-15 minutes of the one hour highlights programs will be taken up with  highlights of the previous stage.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: clifftaylor on July 01, 2012, 04:16:34 pm
Anyone desperately trying to avoid finding out the results would be a fucking idiot to come to a cycling forum and open a topic entitled "Tour de France 2012"!!

Well said that man.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fungus on July 01, 2012, 04:36:49 pm
Sagan  :thumbsup:
Cancellara
Boassen Hagan
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: David Martin on July 01, 2012, 04:43:22 pm
That was an epic last few km.. Just how crazy was that?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mcshroom on July 01, 2012, 04:45:35 pm
Sagan  :thumbsup:
Cancellara
Boassen Hagan

Ahem - someone was on about spoilers :P

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: tiermat on July 01, 2012, 04:46:57 pm
That was an epic last few km.. Just how crazy was that?

Epic, from a ride viewpoint, yes, it was like the finishline was at top of the hill in the Hovis adverts (alternating tarmac and pave).

Drama-wise it scores a resounding nil point from the Yorkshire judges though...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Gus on July 01, 2012, 04:47:09 pm
Riis must be happy, his former track rider got the polkadot.  ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: jogler on July 01, 2012, 05:02:11 pm
With that big hill at the end it was like a Formula 1 audax ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fungus on July 01, 2012, 05:14:12 pm
Sagan  :thumbsup:
Cancellara
Boassen Hagan

Ahem - someone was on about spoilers :P

(click to show/hide)

Wiggo finished safely in the pack so loses no time  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Pip on July 01, 2012, 08:49:03 pm
Sagan's quite a talent isn't he? But once again Cancellara showed colossal strength to mullah the peloton. If Sagan and Boassen Haagen had done a turn the three of them would have nicked a few seconds.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: road-runner on July 01, 2012, 09:04:17 pm
Normally the TdF is not on Slovak TV but this year with Peter Velits and Peter Sagan, both Slovak riders, we have coverage.

Sagan rode a tactical finish, biding his time until the 150m mark. He did well.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimO on July 01, 2012, 09:07:41 pm
Watching them on that hill at the end, it looked pretty steep, although as the commentators said, it was worse at the bottom.  I suspect I'd be puffing going up that at any speed. ;D

It looked a bit like Cancellara was watching for the two on his tail, and getting ready to try and out-sprint them.  Since what he wanted was just time, it looked to me like he should have ignored them and just hammered on as fast as he could.  If he'd got a small gap in before the peloton, he'd have gained a few seconds instead of just staying in the same position.

It's going to be interesting to see how Sagan does.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: David Martin on July 01, 2012, 09:31:35 pm
Why would cancellara need time? He wanted the win.  Sagan is really talented and tactically was spot on, picking cancellara's wheel to sit on.  If they had got a few seconds, Eddie Boyson-Haggis (honorary scottish rider :) would have picked up the white jersey.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimO on July 01, 2012, 10:09:05 pm
Why would cancellara need time? ...

To stay in Yellow longer?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: andrew_s on July 01, 2012, 11:13:23 pm
[spoiler]I thought the usual form was to start a thread with "$RACE (Spoilers within)" as the title?[/spoiler]
It is, but in this case the topic was started a couple of weeks before the Tour began, so anticipation was probably lacking.
If you are worried you could try sending him a PM with instructions in the editing of topic titles. Me, I agree with bobb.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: peliroja on July 01, 2012, 11:57:42 pm
Was that final hill really as brutally steep as it looked?!

Sagan was very impressive (though his victory salute was a bit twattish).
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Andrew on July 02, 2012, 08:56:50 am
Was that final hill really as brutally steep as it looked?!

Sagan was very impressive (though his victory salute was a bit twattish).

Agreed on all points. I think I'd have walked that hill!

It's the first time I've actually seen Sagan (though read a great deal about him) and that celebration hasn't endeared him to me - it did seem to have a ring of arrogance, show boating even, about it. I'm sure I'll be seeing more of him though so plenty of time to get over a negative first impression!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: David Martin on July 02, 2012, 09:55:21 am
I think anyone who can  take a win like that against many of the best riders in the world has the right to be justifiably arrogant.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 02, 2012, 10:05:35 am
I rather liked his little finish line celebration! He's had enough opportunities to rehearse it this year... The first of many career stage wins no doubt...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 02, 2012, 10:19:15 am
The celebration may have been a sign of his youth, but the finish itself was the work of a seasoned pro. If EBH or Gilbert had had the tactical nous to get on Cancellara's wheel, they might have given him more of a race, but Sagan seemed to be the only one who wasn't caught napping when Cancellara made his move. EBH did extremely well to close the attack down but he didn't have anything left for the sprint. Gilbert let himself down a bit on a stage that was made for him.

What an incredible talent Sagan is.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: alexb on July 02, 2012, 11:01:01 am
Disappointed to see that Vinokourov is back.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 02, 2012, 11:09:45 am
Young professional sportsman takes major victory after 5 hours of effort - then celebrates.

What a shock!!!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nuncio on July 02, 2012, 11:21:34 am
The celebration may have been a sign of his youth, but the finish itself was the work of a seasoned pro. If EBH or Gilbert had had the tactical nous to get on Cancellara's wheel, they might have given him more of a race, but Sagan seemed to be the only one who wasn't caught napping when Cancellara made his move. EBH did extremely well to close the attack down but he didn't have anything left for the sprint. Gilbert let himself down a bit on a stage that was made for him.

d.

How do you know it was lack of tactical nous on the part of Gilbert and not just that he 'didn't have anything left' to keep with Cancellara/Sagan or to close the gap?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 02, 2012, 11:29:53 am
I'm still amazed by Bradley's physique.  He's someone I would have thought didn't have much weight to lose 2 years ago. 

Hard to believe he can make more than about 15 watts.  Never heard him so confident about his preparation or his fitness.

What must it be like being so light and developing so much power?  I can only dream.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Andrew on July 02, 2012, 12:12:14 pm
Personally, I don't think there's ever a place for arrogance... but that's only my opinion. Besides, it was only a first (ish) impression and I'm not taking him off my christmas card list just yet!

The guy is an incredible talent that's for sure, and it was canny riding yesterday. I'm quite sure I'll be seeing varieties of finish line celebrations from him in the future.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 02, 2012, 12:17:32 pm
How do you know it was lack of tactical nous on the part of Gilbert and not just that he 'didn't have anything left' to keep with Cancellara/Sagan or to close the gap?

I don't know, I'm making a guess based on how it looked to me.

Gilbert may not quite have the form he had last year, but he's not a rider who usually has trouble going fast up short, sharp climbs like that. He was certainly closing them down very fast by the time they crossed the line. I think he was just too slow to respond to Cancellara's attack. I may be wrong.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Snakehips on July 02, 2012, 03:16:09 pm
Who is the Eurosport commentator today , Norman Collier ? or is my Virgin service playing up ?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Tewdric on July 02, 2012, 04:37:37 pm
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Gus on July 02, 2012, 04:41:50 pm
(http://smileyshack.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/sbiting_100-1081.gif)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 02, 2012, 04:43:29 pm
Pure class.

The speed of the peloton in the last few km was terrifying.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 02, 2012, 04:56:21 pm
All on his lonesome too.... The look on Griepel's face. He must be really fucked off with him  :P
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: David Martin on July 02, 2012, 04:57:43 pm
It's not just his speed but the ability to suddenly be where he needs to be. :)

Great result.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 02, 2012, 08:35:05 pm
Just uploaded my photos from the Liege expedition. Here are a few for your consideration-

Team Sky Pro Cycling at the team presentation on Thursday evening
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02572.jpg)

A stroll around the City led us here-

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02590.jpg)

373 steps to the top! Here is the post ascent view-

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02594.jpg)

SWMBO needed a short rest before continuing-

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02595.jpg)

Fuel was available at the Expo that ran from Wednesday evining to Friday evening. A rumour has it that Belgians produce some of the best beer in the world. We agree-

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02554.jpg).

We did a recce of the prologue route and picked our spot on the exit to the roundabout on Quai Paul van Hoegaerden between Pont John F Kennedy and Pont Albert 1er. We left the hotel at 8:30 a.m. and were on plot by 9:00 a.m. where we sat and waited. After a while other spectators started to arrive and riders started to do the route to warm up and get a feel for the route-

Wiggo
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02627.jpg)

Spartacus
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02639.jpg)

Cav
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02643.jpg)

EBH
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02644.jpg)

Vino (SWMBO has a soft spot for him)
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02650.jpg)

Graham Watson turned up and doubtless did a far superior job of capturing the moment than I did
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02651.jpg)

A little while later a retired French bloke showed up as well-
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02677.jpg)

They then got down to doing the route for proper-
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02689.jpg)

Though not everyone had luck on their side
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02673.jpg)

Cav on his timed run
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02694.jpg)

Yukia Arashiro (for whom SWMBO has another soft spot)
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02698.jpg)

Some folk seemed to be having a ball
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02711.jpg)

Though I don't think I saw Dave Zabriski smile all weekend (love the Captain America look!)
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02720.jpg)

Vino again
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02729.jpg)

Not sure who (open to suggestions) poss Valverde?
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02730.jpg)

Cadel going for it
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02744.jpg)

SWMBO soaking up the atmosphere
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02710.jpg)

Me doing the same
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02657.jpg)

We then took a walk to where the pit lane had set up earlier. Team Sky have gorgeous vehicles
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02746.jpg)

and if you look carefully, at least one comes with a factory fitted Bradley Wiggins
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02747.jpg)

I'm not posing for this one, honest
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02748.jpg)

Elsewhere, I found a car with Scarponi's bike on the roof (lovely looking machine)
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02750.jpg)

I noticed a nasty gouge on the bottom bracket. I expect it will buff out
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02753.jpg)

There was also a stand set up by a Brussels bike museum which included this beautiful Pederssen (sp)
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02759.jpg)

It was then back to the hotel to nurse our sunburn.

Next morning we set out at 8:30 again and located ourselves on Boulevard d' Avroy on the outside of the turn where the route entered Rue Pont d' Avroy. We waited for a couple of hours, collecting caravan schwag until the peleton arrived-

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02766.jpg)

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02768.jpg)

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02770.jpg)

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02772.jpg)

After they had dissapeared down the route we relocated a few yards away still on Boulevard d' Avroy as they made there way back along the other side of the road and out of the City

Jens contemplating the pain he is doubtless going to cause after uttering the immortal words "Shut up legs!"
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02775.jpg)

Cadel in relaxed mood
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02780.jpg)

but not as relaxed as Tommy V
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02784.jpg)

SWMBO is a diamond for organising the travel etc. I must keep telling her I love her :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 02, 2012, 09:17:05 pm
RR, holiday is over. We drovwe back to the ferry as soon as we found a way around the road closures.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: peliroja on July 02, 2012, 09:29:44 pm
Brilliant pics, oh Fuzzy one. There's nothing quite like seeing the Tour.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 02, 2012, 09:36:20 pm
Excellent photies Fuzzy
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 02, 2012, 09:40:00 pm
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02590.jpg)

DH mtb required!!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 02, 2012, 09:42:57 pm
Great photos, thanks!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Pingu on July 02, 2012, 09:59:41 pm
... A rumour has it that Belgians produce some of the best beer in the world...

That's not just a rumour  :P
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: David Martin on July 02, 2012, 10:01:00 pm
It will require extensive study. I enclose my proposal for a 3 year research grant.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rafletcher on July 03, 2012, 07:56:12 am
Personally, I don't think there's ever a place for arrogance... but that's only my opinion.

Then you'll not like (m)any top prefessional sportsmen. It's the "arrogance" - or total self-belief - that keeps them going, and winning. Robert Millar was one of the most "arrogant" people I've ever met - but I still wanted him to win.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 03, 2012, 10:28:54 am
In the best New Statesman tradition...

I have a lot of self-confidence.

You are full of it.

He's an arrogant bastard.

 ;)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 03, 2012, 10:32:10 am
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/DSC02590.jpg)

DH mtb required!!

I was looking at the descent thinking about my bike patrol days as well :D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 03, 2012, 10:35:36 am
Great pics, fuzzy!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nuncio on July 03, 2012, 12:21:13 pm
Re- Sagan's victory salute.  Robbie Hunter's view

Quote
Sagan smashed it today but I can’t say I’m impressed with the victory salutes he is giving out. He is the most incredible rider at the moment and being so young makes it even more special. BUT just because he is way above the rest of us there is no need to try rub it in our faces that he wins so easy! Needs to cool the ego I think.

From http://helivac.wordpress.com/ - looks like it may be an interesting blog to follow, even if he can't spell peloton.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 03, 2012, 12:32:15 pm
Re- Sagan's victory salute.  Robbie Hunter's view

Quote
Sagan smashed it today but I can’t say I’m impressed with the victory salutes he is giving out. He is the most incredible rider at the moment and being so young makes it even more special. BUT just because he is way above the rest of us there is no need to try rub it in our faces that he wins so easy! Needs to cool the ego I think.

From http://helivac.wordpress.com/ - looks like it may be an interesting blog to follow, even if he can't spell peloton.

Kinda ironic - I've read that Robbie Hunter is not well liked in the peloton. The reason given? He's an arrogant cock!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Karla on July 03, 2012, 12:56:00 pm
Cav wasn't exactly the most humble rider on le Tour when he started winning stages in 2008.  If you want a young sprinter, I think a certain amount of arrogance goes with the territory: they won't have got to the top of that particular game by being shrinking violets.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 03, 2012, 01:15:39 pm
< See my avatar.

I think it's fine to have a bit of arrogance if you have the performances to match. That's certainly the case with both Cav and Sagan.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: JT on July 03, 2012, 02:20:54 pm
Robbie Hunter is a miserable twat. A daft celebration that is allegedly supposed to be a panda and then a chicken is hardly the height of arrogance. Whereas Hunter is clearly deluded if he thinks he can still win sprints at his age, with his legs, and with that competition.

Anyway, tremendous win yesterday for Cav; again proving that he doesn't need a lead-out train to win. Bloody terrifying to watch that run-in though.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Karla on July 03, 2012, 04:24:30 pm
Whatever Hobby Runter says, I liked Peter Sagan's victory salute today  :D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 03, 2012, 04:37:50 pm
Sagan makes me smile. Robbie Hunter doesn't.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 03, 2012, 04:38:21 pm
Whatever Hobby Runter says, I liked Peter Sagan's victory salute today  :D

I liked it too! Not sure what the fuck it was supposed to be, but I liked it  :)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 03, 2012, 04:39:43 pm
All the hype about Sagan's ability seems to be based firmly in reality. 
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: clarion on July 03, 2012, 05:10:12 pm
Whatever Hobby Runter says, I liked Peter Sagan's victory salute today  :D

I liked it too! Not sure what the fuck it was supposed to be, but I liked it  :)

It was silly, he looked like a prat (or a footballer).  But it was his stage win, so he can pretty much do as he likes.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 03, 2012, 05:16:32 pm
It was silly

It was silly. Which makes it fun.

Imagine how much more interesting the tennis would be if Andy Murray substituted the clenched fist "COME ON!!" after winning an important point for a Sagan style dance around the court!  :P
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 03, 2012, 05:18:37 pm
It was silly

It was silly. Which makes it fun.

Imagine how much more interesting the tennis would be if Andy Murray substituted the clenched fist "COME ON!!" after winning an important point for a Sagan style dance around the court!  :P

Characters are banned in Tennis now.  It upsets the cat-loving spinsters in the crowd (or "The Crowd" as they are better known) too much.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Aidan on July 03, 2012, 05:21:49 pm
Whatever Hobby Runter says, I liked Peter Sagan's victory salute today  :D

I liked it too! Not sure what the fuck it was supposed to be, but I liked it  :)

It was a T-1000

http://vimeo.com/29106106  near the end. I'm hoping he goes through these one by one ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Karla on July 03, 2012, 05:36:21 pm
I want him to do the Peter Crouch robot dance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBlzG-EWj38
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: clarion on July 03, 2012, 05:58:29 pm
It was silly

It was silly. Which makes it fun.

Imagine how much more interesting the tennis would be if Andy Murray substituted the clenched fist "COME ON!!" after winning an important point for a Sagan style dance around the court!  :P

;D  You have totally convinced me! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: delthebike on July 03, 2012, 06:55:27 pm
I liked it too! Not sure what the fuck it was supposed to be, but I liked it  :)
It was a T-1000
Not sure what Sagan you watched but he said himself that it was Forrest Gump. 

I don't get it either!  ???
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: eck on July 03, 2012, 07:08:39 pm
The bestest, happiest, classiest has to be Eros Poli's celebration of his unlikely win on the stage over Ventoux. Watch it at about 5min, and don't miss the nonchalant toss of his cap into the crowd.  :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RxTnLaH3gVA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RxTnLaH3gVA)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 03, 2012, 08:01:15 pm
All the hype about Sagan's ability seems to be based firmly in reality.
Lol! His victory dance thingy doesn't seem to be noticeably more arrogant than any other - and he has won, so celebration is in order. Besides, none of this is anything compared to what footballers routinely do after a single goal.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 03, 2012, 08:09:33 pm
The bestest, happiest, classiest has to be Eros Poli's celebration of his unlikely win on the stage over Ventoux. Watch it at about 5min, and don't miss the nonchalant toss of his cap into the crowd.  :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RxTnLaH3gVA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RxTnLaH3gVA)
Little Cudzo's comments questions as we watched:
What language is that?
Where is it?
Is that you?
 ;D  :o
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Karla on July 03, 2012, 10:03:28 pm
They're not as good as Fuzzy's, but here are some of my shots from the prologue.

This couple weren't racing the Tour du France, or going anywhere near it.  Rather, they were touring Holland on a pair of Choppers!  Seen here about to disembark the Rotterdam ferry.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8143/7495030176_dacf7b8c23_z.jpg)

Just as I reached this town, I felt an urgent something stirring down inside of me ...
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7111/7495036886_00d5d4e9aa_z.jpg)

I stayed with friends in Maastricht and rode the 30km down to Liege each day.  On the Saturday, we tagged along behind three guys on standard Dutch roadsters.  They were only doing about 16k-18ph but we were impressed when they formed an echelon into the wind.  We were even more impressed when they started a rotating pace line! Two of them are father and son, ex-racers both.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8282/7495044158_24955a5277_z.jpg)

On the day of the prologue, we installed ourselves about 2km from the finish, inside the circuit and outside a little bar which mainly seemed to have Congolese people inside it, and which had set up a TV to watch the race.  When we saw someone outside who we were interested in, we'd dash inside to see how they finished.

Bernie Eisel
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8428/7495065666_1b420ba8e5_z.jpg)

Marcel Kittel
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8433/7495080542_ed59e58329_z.jpg)

Alex Txurruka (never heard of him, I just like the photo)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8141/7495086544_92218b9885_z.jpg)

Peter Sagan - well after his unclipped moment
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7258/7495105680_a4aca01731_z.jpg)

Frank Schleck
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7109/7495115124_2176cdb702_z.jpg)

Watching Bradley Wiggins on the bar's TV
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7251/7495131094_59f4b84775_z.jpg)

The next day, we just had time to watch the start before I caught my train to Zeebrugge for the ferry home.  Here's the front of the race in the neutralised zone
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8145/7495138782_98649db81f_z.jpg)

...and here they are again
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8157/7495139822_2f98aaf612_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Bledlow on July 03, 2012, 10:25:52 pm
The bestest, happiest, classiest has to be Eros Poli's celebration of his unlikely win on the stage over Ventoux. Watch it at about 5min, and don't miss the nonchalant toss of his cap into the crowd.  :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RxTnLaH3gVA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RxTnLaH3gVA)
I remember that. IIRC he was about 20 minutes ahead at the foot of the climb, & lost 17 minutes of it by the top. But did he care? He was expecting to be caught on the way up. Damn good sprinter, but he'd only gone off the front because he was such a bad climber he wanted to build up a big lead to be safe from failing to make the cut - and that was why nobody chased him for a long time. They took it for granted they'd take him on the climb, until it was too late. He was looking over his shoulder for the chasers from about half-way up, & I don't think he really believed he'd reach the top first until he was almost there.

I really, really enjoyed that. Perhaps the most unexpected stage win ever, & one of the most popular.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 03, 2012, 10:26:27 pm
Marcel Kittel
...
Now I'm having visions of Mr White (http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0002674/) saying "If you win this race, you die next. Repeat. If you win this race, you die next."
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: road-runner on July 03, 2012, 10:48:14 pm
Stage 3. What happened to Cav? I watched him outsprint (as well as out-think) Sagan at the intermediate sprint, after which I lost him for the remainder of the stage and have no clue as to where he was at the finish. Where was he?
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 03, 2012, 10:53:31 pm
Alex Txurruka (never heard of him, I just like the photo)

Amets Txurruka, iirc. You'll see a lot more of him in the mountain stages. And yes, it's a very nice pic. :thumbsup:

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Bledlow on July 03, 2012, 10:59:56 pm
Sometimes called a Spanish professional cyclist. Given his name & who he rides for, I expect he calls himself a Basque, & there'll be red white & green flags waving for him in the Pyrenees.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 03, 2012, 11:05:21 pm
The next time Sagan wins a stage, he should do the Timewarp. Without un-clipping. :demon:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fungus on July 03, 2012, 11:08:58 pm
Stage 3. What happened to Cav? I watched him outsprint (as well as out-think) Sagan at the intermediate sprint, after which I lost him for the remainder of the stage and have no clue as to where he was at the finish. Where was he?

I was chuffed though, with only 2 riders out of the 198 in the race from Slovakia, to see the two Slovaks finish today in 1st and 3rd places.

No chance for Cav today.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 03, 2012, 11:18:07 pm
The bestest, happiest, classiest has to be Eros Poli's celebration of his unlikely win on the stage over Ventoux. Watch it at about 5min, and don't miss the nonchalant toss of his cap into the crowd.  :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RxTnLaH3gVA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RxTnLaH3gVA)
I remember that. IIRC he was about 20 minutes ahead at the foot of the climb, & lost 17 minutes of it by the top. But did he care? He was expecting to be caught on the way up. Damn good sprinter, but he'd only gone off the front because he was such a bad climber he wanted to build up a big lead to be safe from failing to make the cut - and that was why nobody chased him for a long time. They took it for granted they'd take him on the climb, until it was too late. He was looking over his shoulder for the chasers from about half-way up, & I don't think he really believed he'd reach the top first until he was almost there.

I really, really enjoyed that. Perhaps the most unexpected stage win ever, & one of the most popular.

He wasn't so much a sprinter as a lead-out man, he was part of the 100km  time trial Gold medal wining team in the 1984 Olympics and won the amateur worlds TTT in 1987, those were the days of 'shamateurism' and the Italians were masters of it. He therefore turned pro late in his career. On the stage he won, a young rider staged a break on a hot day when it was agreed that they'd have a day off, which happens between the two mountain ranges. Eros was annoyed and chased him down to prove a point, then he just kept going with a tailwind. He always wore a cap with the top cut out, so as not to endanger his locks, the belief being that wearing a cap, let alone a helmet, makes you go bald.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: road-runner on July 03, 2012, 11:32:02 pm
No chance for Cav today.

Thanks fungus. I found the complete list at Velo news (http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/07/tour-de-france/tour-de-france-2012-stage-3-results_227189).

Quote
153. Mark CAVENDISH, Sky, at 7:27

That far back he must have been delayed at least by the second crash and maybe also the last one at the 350m mark.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 04, 2012, 06:01:48 am
All the hype about Sagan's ability seems to be based firmly in reality.

The last time I saw that much ability was with Ricco in '08.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Tewdric on July 04, 2012, 06:26:48 am
All the hype about Sagan's ability seems to be based firmly in reality.

The last time I saw that much ability was with Ricco in '08.

It did cross my mind..
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rafletcher on July 04, 2012, 07:38:30 am
Then why do the pair of you bother to watch  :-\
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: David Martin on July 04, 2012, 08:00:06 am
Sagan has been an emerging talent for a few years. He is an all rounder in the Gilbert mould - can dispose of short punchy climbs and sprints well. Not yet good on the high mountains.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 04, 2012, 08:00:38 am
In the hope that I might see some clean performances. There is always hope...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 04, 2012, 08:17:08 am
Then why do the pair of you bother to watch  :-\
So they can chip in here with their cynical smart-arse comments. Obviously!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 04, 2012, 08:27:03 am
Nice pics Mr B. A good plan watching from a bar :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 04, 2012, 08:29:50 am
PS Mr B,

Did you ride the course before taking up spectator station? If so, what time were you there (just checking to see if I can get a Forumite Spot bagged  ;D )
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 04, 2012, 08:37:00 am
In the hope that I might see some clean performances. There is always hope...

I'm reserving judgment on Sagan. If he carries on like that in the proper hills, that's when I'll start getting suspicious.

For now, I'm just enjoying the spectacle.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Karla on July 04, 2012, 02:40:05 pm
PS Mr B,

Did you ride the course before taking up spectator station? If so, what time were you there (just checking to see if I can get a Forumite Spot bagged  ;D )

No, I'm afraid not.  I did appear on the Eurosport live coverage though.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 04, 2012, 03:06:47 pm
PS Mr B,

Did you ride the course before taking up spectator station? If so, what time were you there (just checking to see if I can get a Forumite Spot bagged  ;D )

No, I'm afraid not.  I did appear on the Eurosport live coverage though.

Both SWMBO and I appear in the ITV4 coverage (if you know exactly when to pause the picture and what we were wearing and can discern our blurred images) and SWMBO can be seen through the gaps in the backdrop behind Gary Imlach as he does his last piece to camera before the end of the highlights programme  :D

I may have spotted you as I wandered the streets during the event but will never know :-\
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Karla on July 04, 2012, 04:32:53 pm
Both SWMBO and I appear in the ITV4 coverage (if you know exactly when to pause the picture and what we were wearing and can discern our blurred images)

Yeah, ditto.

If the mystery me was wearing a red, white and black Clifton CC jersey, it was me.  If not, it was someone else.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Biff on July 04, 2012, 09:06:29 pm
In the hope that I might see some clean performances. There is always hope...

I'm reserving judgment on Sagan. If he carries on like that in the proper hills, that's when I'll start getting suspicious.

For now, I'm just enjoying the spectacle.

d.

Spot on.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 05, 2012, 11:19:27 am
In the hope that I might see some clean performances. There is always hope...

I'm reserving judgment on Sagan. If he carries on like that in the proper hills, that's when I'll start getting suspicious.

For now, I'm just enjoying the spectacle.

d.

Indeed. A combination of travelogue and soap opera, with the added bonus of being able to say "I've been up that/down that/along those cobbles/through that town/drunk in that bar" every now and then.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nuncio on July 06, 2012, 12:14:02 pm
Sagan makes me smile. Robbie Hunter doesn't.

d.

This (http://drupal-sporten.tv2.dk/tour/2012-07-06-sagan-med-ringeklokke-p%C3%A5-tourminator-cykel) made me smile.  From comments here, I can't imagine Robbie Hunter having a bell ringeklokke on his handlebars.

Was yesterday's stage so boring that even we don't have anything to say about it?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 06, 2012, 12:20:00 pm
This (http://drupal-sporten.tv2.dk/tour/2012-07-06-sagan-med-ringeklokke-p%C3%A5-tourminator-cykel) made me smile.

Superb!  ;D

Quote
Was yesterday's stage so boring that even we don't have anything to say about it?

Tyler Farrar found it so boring, he decided he'd rather have a nice lie-down. Again.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: matthew on July 06, 2012, 12:26:17 pm
Well it looked like he was trying to lean on another rider to stay upright so that when he had to brake because another rider came across his line and his support didn't brake he fell over.

Well done Griple (sp) for staying upright , uncliping both feet, and still getting back to the sharp end.

Unfortunately Sky blew their effort to get Wiggo up front out of harms way and were about two men short in the lead out train to launch EBH and Cav at the right point.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: eeymsmo on July 06, 2012, 12:26:42 pm
Tyler Farrar found it so boring, he decided he'd rather have a nice lie-down. Again.

And after that he had lots of energy again -
http://youtu.be/lMeMr1pzGcA
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 06, 2012, 12:40:09 pm
Karsten Kroon's verdict on yesterday's stage:

Quote
@KarstenKroon
 (https://twitter.com/KarstenKroon/statuses/220926320635424769) That was the easiest day in my life as a pro. I will not tell you the SRM data my friends, it's embarrassing. The Tour is Freaking Hard!

Quote
@KarstenKroon
 (https://twitter.com/KarstenKroon/statuses/220952736802410499) OK then my friends. 139 Watts average. If you try that at home you will fall off your bike. (because you're going to slow not exhaustion..)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 06, 2012, 12:45:03 pm
Heh! Well I suppose that fits with Wiggo's comments. "I was losing fitness just cruising back in the pack all week, so we decided to do a bit of work for Cav today." <or similar>

I guess that on flat stages they only have to ride hard during the more technical sections, i.e. where there is some benefit to be at the front, thus (hopefully!) avoiding crashes. And in the last 10km (which are often also technical this year, it seems.)

A week of mountains should please them.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 06, 2012, 12:54:20 pm
Well it looked like he was trying to lean on another rider to stay upright so that when he had to brake because another rider came across his line and his support didn't brake he fell over.


It looked to me as if Petachi may have hit Tylers front wheel. Tylers tub was haning off the wheel in the slo mo immediatly he started to fall.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nuncio on July 06, 2012, 12:56:47 pm
Bw used the word 'de-training'.  It was unclear as to whether it meant
a) taking the edge off his fitness, or
b) leaving Cav to his own devices.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 06, 2012, 12:58:36 pm
That reminded me of Marcus Brigstocke's excellent rant last week [about train announcements]

I don't want to "de-train", I don't want to "disembark"

I just want to get off.

</OT sorry... >
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 06, 2012, 12:59:08 pm
Well I suppose that fits with Wiggo's comments. "I was losing fitness just cruising back in the pack all week, so we decided to do a bit of work for Cav today." <or similar>

I guess that on flat stages they only have to ride hard during the more technical sections, i.e. where there is some benefit to be at the front, thus (hopefully!) avoiding crashes. And in the last 10km (which are often also technical this year, it seems.)

A week of mountains should please them.

Considering that drafting behind another rider is supposed to save around 30% of the nominal power output for a given speed, barely ticking over while in the peloton is quite plausible.

Also, prior to winding up for the chasing down of the breakaways, hasn't the peloton been riding at a somewhat slower pace than they would have been say, 10-12 years ago?  ;)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 06, 2012, 01:06:10 pm
Considering that drafting behind another rider is supposed to save around 30% of the nominal power output for a given speed, barely ticking over while in the peloton is quite plausible.
"for a given speed" is the key there!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Gus on July 06, 2012, 04:58:16 pm
Nasty crash today, I'm sure there will be more abandons tomorrow. Just seen that Hesjedal been taken for x-ray, think Gesink are going that way too  :'(
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 06, 2012, 05:03:50 pm
Quote
@millarmind (https://twitter.com/millarmind/status/221266836296175617): Oh sweet jesus that was scary. Approx 70km/h pile up, like a tidal wave of debris smashing towards us, could do nothing but brake and pray.

Quote
@millarmind (https://twitter.com/millarmind/status/221267352786968577): Knee caps smashed, chainring in chest, thigh + ankle bruised. Didn't even notice this scratch... http://yfrog.com/nvgutchj

"This photo has been removed" - I'm not surprised, it was pretty gory...

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 06, 2012, 07:17:29 pm
Quote
@millarmind (https://twitter.com/millarmind/status/221266836296175617): Oh sweet jesus that was scary. Approx 70km/h pile up, like a tidal wave of debris smashing towards us, could do nothing but brake and pray.

Quote
@millarmind (https://twitter.com/millarmind/status/221267352786968577): Knee caps smashed, chainring in chest, thigh + ankle bruised. Didn't even notice this scratch... http://yfrog.com/nvgutchj

"This photo has been removed" - I'm not surprised, it was pretty gory...

d.


Utter carnage all round today.  :o
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nuncio on July 06, 2012, 11:41:57 pm
Alex Txurruka (never heard of him, I just like the photo)
Amets Txurruka, iirc. You'll see a lot more of him in the mountain stages.

d.

Sadly not.  One of many of today's abandonments.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 07, 2012, 09:06:15 am
From David Millar's Twitter. 
(http://a.yfrog.com/img864/8669/941ig.jpg)

Neat pattern but too wide apart for chainring teeth.  What else could have caused them ?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Justin(e) on July 07, 2012, 09:27:40 am
Neat pattern but too wide apart for chainring teeth.  What else could have caused them ?

Self harm?

Broken souvenired epo bottles?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: road-runner on July 07, 2012, 09:32:02 am
Barbed wire fence?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Pingu on July 07, 2012, 10:36:51 am
Wolverine?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: delthebike on July 07, 2012, 10:39:25 am
Wolverine?
Brad's got the sideburns but not the claws!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Biff on July 07, 2012, 12:50:04 pm
Sweary Wiggo:

http://vimeo.com/45352846
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: David Martin on July 07, 2012, 12:56:08 pm
Well played Wiggo. Not my choice of words but I entirely empathise with his emotions.
 
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Tewdric on July 07, 2012, 04:15:16 pm
Sc**w you Cuddles!  ;D

<edit>  Looks like Froome is KOTM too! Wooop!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: geraldc on July 07, 2012, 04:22:20 pm
How many times are they going to mention Froome is Kenyan?!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: David Martin on July 07, 2012, 04:29:07 pm
Oh my goodness.. That was a hard lesson from Sky for the pretenders. We now know who the real contenders are..

Perfect day
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Biff on July 07, 2012, 04:51:17 pm
How many times are they going to mention Froome is Kenyan?!

Sherwen lives in Uganda where he co-owns a goldmine, so is African  ;)  I'm surprised he didn't spout Swahili, which he speaks fluently.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 07, 2012, 04:58:44 pm
Bloody hellfire, I can see why some people make allusions to US Postal, Sky blew the peloton to pieces.  :o
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Wowbagger on July 07, 2012, 05:24:56 pm
My son-inllaw was watching the Tour on the television this afternoon.

I understand that Bradley Wiggins is the inspiration for my grand-daughter to get on her Isla balance bike we bought her for her birthday a week or two ago, and learn to ride it!  :D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: David Martin on July 07, 2012, 06:18:17 pm
If he wins the tour, how long before it is Sir Bradley of Kiburn...?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 07, 2012, 07:08:50 pm
Very telling stage.

Cadel Evans, more suited to a short & steep finish (apparently) was blown away by Froome and didn't manage to shake off Wiggo.

Meanwhile his support was dropping like flies.

Nibali meanwhile couldn't take the pace and fell off the back in the final surge to the line.

I can't wait to see how SKY approach the really long climbs.  Will they just keep turning the screws all the way to the top I wonder?

It's way too early to be sure but I sensed that the effort from SKY today really took its toll on Evans, his final sprint seemed like the sprint of a man who left 90% on the climb.

How much time did Froome lose to his puncture?  He's in 9th place , I assume people would be talking about him as a contender otherwise (he's only one successful break-away away from closing the gap as it is)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mcshroom on July 07, 2012, 07:09:56 pm
According to ITV4 Froome attacked on a 20% section of the  hill :o
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 07, 2012, 07:11:20 pm
According to ITV4 Froome attacked on a 20% section of the  hill :o

Yes, that's where I like to save my attacks for


(mainly because I don't know any 20% climbs around here)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Bledlow on July 07, 2012, 07:13:31 pm
The bestest, happiest, classiest has to be Eros Poli's celebration of his unlikely win on the stage over Ventoux. Watch it at about 5min, and don't miss the nonchalant toss of his cap into the crowd.  :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RxTnLaH3gVA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RxTnLaH3gVA)
I remember that. IIRC he was about 20 minutes ahead at the foot of the climb, & lost 17 minutes of it by the top. But did he care? He was expecting to be caught on the way up. Damn good sprinter, but he'd only gone off the front because he was such a bad climber he wanted to build up a big lead to be safe from failing to make the cut - and that was why nobody chased him for a long time. They took it for granted they'd take him on the climb, until it was too late. He was looking over his shoulder for the chasers from about half-way up, & I don't think he really believed he'd reach the top first until he was almost there.

I really, really enjoyed that. Perhaps the most unexpected stage win ever, & one of the most popular.

He wasn't so much a sprinter as a lead-out man, he was part of the 100km  time trial Gold medal wining team in the 1984 Olympics and won the amateur worlds TTT in 1987, those were the days of 'shamateurism' and the Italians were masters of it. He therefore turned pro late in his career. On the stage he won, a young rider staged a break on a hot day when it was agreed that they'd have a day off, which happens between the two mountain ranges. Eros was annoyed and chased him down to prove a point, then he just kept going with a tailwind. He always wore a cap with the top cut out, so as not to endanger his locks, the belief being that wearing a cap, let alone a helmet, makes you go bald.
IIRC he was Cipo's lead-out man for a while.

I've always thought that to be a top lead-out man you have to be a good sprinter, just not quite good enough to be the man being led out. A lead-out man should ideally be as fast & skilful as his principal, but a bit more cautious - and that caution would mean he wouldn't quite be as good at getting over the line first in a sprint.

Nice to see Wiggins in yellow, BTW.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rr on July 07, 2012, 07:32:22 pm
Evans seemed to be sprinting all in and Wiggins well within his comfort zone.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: road-runner on July 07, 2012, 07:50:38 pm
I was wondering why Froome wasn't pulling Wiggins up the final hill so that Wiggins could take the stage. Maybe Wiggins' focus is on the yellow jersey and some arrangement today that will get a payback on some other stage meant that Froome could take the stage and aim for the polka dot jersey.

Fabian Cancellara impressed me as he single-handedly rode his way past many riders on that last climb, without his team for support or (from what was shown on TV) sucking other riders' wheels.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Domestique on July 07, 2012, 08:18:35 pm
Wow, Team Sky turn on the pain  :o
Did I hear right that hill was 15% average  :o
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: jogler on July 07, 2012, 09:24:17 pm


I can't wait to see how SKY approach the really long climbs.  Will they just keep turning the screws all the way to the top I wonder?


a la Indurain
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: loadsabikes on July 07, 2012, 09:35:22 pm
What a stage!  Well done sky!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 07, 2012, 09:38:56 pm
Really pleased to see Froome take the stage and the polka dot, hope he's still wearing it in Paris.

Looking good for Sky.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: jogler on July 07, 2012, 09:43:57 pm
I'd like to think that Wiggo was content for Sky to end the stage with a rider in yellow & another rider with the stage win plus another shirt wearer in the team rather than himself steal all the thunder.

This is the sort of English sporting success that should be banner headlines on the sports pages of tommorow's newspapers.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Jakob on July 07, 2012, 09:45:01 pm
Ok, I used to think that Sagan was a twat, but I take it back..this is how he crossed the line today:
http://twitter.com/velochimp/status/221627232592998405/photo/1

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nuncio on July 07, 2012, 11:13:18 pm
How much time did Froome lose to his puncture?
1:25. 
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: ferret on July 07, 2012, 11:25:51 pm
I'd like to think that Wiggo was content for Sky to end the stage with a rider in yellow & another rider with the stage win plus another shirt wearer in the team rather than himself steal all the thunder.

This is the sort of English sporting success that should be banner headlines on the sports pages of tommorow's newspapers.

unfortunately it will be overwhelmed by the tennis
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: David Martin on July 07, 2012, 11:45:43 pm
I'd like to think that Wiggo was content for Sky to end the stage with a rider in yellow & another rider with the stage win plus another shirt wearer in the team rather than himself steal all the thunder.

This is the sort of English sporting success that should be banner headlines on the sports pages of tommorow's newspapers.

unfortunately it will be overwhelmed by the tennis

That won't be an English sporting success...

Sagan's wheelie is reminiscent of Robbie McEwen from a few years back.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Andrew Br on July 08, 2012, 12:08:51 am
Evans seemed to be sprinting all in and Wiggins well within his comfort zone.
Yes, I was really impressed by the overhead shots that showed Wiggins, still seated, eating up the gap to Evans while Froome powered off into the distance.
I think/hope that Wiggins still has a little in reserve.
Evans is probably holding something back as well but I think he's now going to be on the defensive.

Slightly OT for the not very cute about race tactics (that would be me then):-
Does it matter too much if BMC can't support Evans on the climbs in the way that Sky can support Wiggins ? Surely Evans can leach off track the other contenders Wiggins ?
Even the tactics employed by Andy Schleck's team last year (where they sent some riders ahead on a breakaway to tow Andy when he made that great effort up the Galibier) could be countered by Evans following Wiggins in a similar situation ?


Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: David Martin on July 08, 2012, 12:19:05 am
Nobody can rely on taking time off Wiggins in the time trials. And for most of the favourites they have to seriously worry about losing time to him in spades.

This means that Wiggo is in the box seat. His rivals must attack if they want to win. And Sky can nullify attacks by riding tempo, something which they are well suited for and which the Sky background in track has a good understanding of how to prepare and train for.

Barring mechanicals/accidents the tour is Wiggo's to lose. All he has to do is defend and the best way for them to do that is to prevent attacks.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: ran doner on July 08, 2012, 10:30:26 am
Don't think Froome will be allowed to go for the mountain classment. He may of course pick it up naturally by supporting Wiggo.

My guess is Moncoutie will be out in front today possibly with a failing gc contender or 2 trying to rescue their tours.

As for can Sky do it on a long climb, the dauphine stage when they did the same suggests they can.



Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Tewdric on July 08, 2012, 10:38:49 am
Barring mechanicals/accidents the tour is Wiggo's to lose.

You've said it now!  ;D
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 08, 2012, 10:39:14 am
Don't think Froome will be allowed to go for the mountain classment. He may of course pick it up naturally by supporting Wiggo.

He won't be contesting the intermediate climbs on the big mountain stages, which is where the majority of the points are to be picked up.

There are two more mountaintop finishes, which he could win and which score double points... But he'd have to rely on all the intermediate climbs being shared out between lots of different riders to have a chance of taking the jersey himself.

d.


Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Somnolent on July 08, 2012, 10:50:05 am
Barring mechanicals/accidents the tour is Wiggo's to lose. All he has to do is defend and the best way for them to do that is to prevent attacks.

Preventing attacks/defending the yellow jersey is going to mean Sky towing the peloton for 10 stages over the remaining two weeks.  Big ask IMO.
Whilst I was chuffed as nuts to see Froome win the stage, I can't help thinking it might have been better to let Evans or Nibali take the yellow and give other teams the task of defending it for a while at least.   
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: ran doner on July 08, 2012, 10:54:12 am
Barring mechanicals/accidents the tour is Wiggo's to lose. All he has to do is defend and the best way for them to do that is to prevent attacks.

Preventing attacks/defending the yellow jersey is going to mean Sky towing the peloton for 10 stages over the remaining two weeks.  Big ask IMO.
Whilst I was chuffed as nuts to see Froome win the stage, I can't help thinking it might have been better to let Evans or Nibali take the yellow and give other teams the task of defending it for a while at least.

Trouble is Wiggins would have to sandbag the tt stage to leave Evans in yellow.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 08, 2012, 11:07:56 am
I hope we see some meaningful attacks today - much as I admire the sight of a Brit dominating the Tour, I want to watch a race, not a procession.

Moncoutie is a good shout.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mzjo on July 08, 2012, 11:23:43 am
Evans seemed to be sprinting all in and Wiggins well within his comfort zone.
Yes, I was really impressed by the overhead shots that showed Wiggins, still seated, eating up the gap to Evans while Froome powered off into the distance.
I think/hope that Wiggins still has a little in reserve.
Evans is probably holding something back as well but I think he's now going to be on the defensive.

Slightly OT for the not very cute about race tactics (that would be me then):-
Does it matter too much if BMC can't support Evans on the climbs in the way that Sky can support Wiggins ? Surely Evans can leach off track the other contenders Wiggins ?
Even the tactics employed by Andy Schleck's team last year (where they sent some riders ahead on a breakaway to tow Andy when he made that great effort up the Galibier) could be countered by Evans following Wiggins in a similar situation ?

Evans cannot make up time on Wiggins by following his wheel, although that is a very good way of finishing second. Somewhere he has to attack to take the lead. Perhaps he may attack in the TT but Wiggins is probably stronger and has the advantage of starting last and having Evans' splits to guide him (almost certainly stronger physically but not quite as experienced at creating the advantage at this level). Otherwise he is left praying for a mechanical to attack (and his experience on the Telegraph stage last year is an unfortunate omen in that respect).
There is something reassuring for Sky in that one of the ds of BMC said on Eurosport that they had not wanted to take the yellow jersey at this stage, which means to me that they had doubts about being strong enough to defend it.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimO on July 08, 2012, 11:30:18 am
Wow, Team Sky turn on the pain  :o
Did I hear right that hill was 15% average  :o

That was the last 1.5km iirc.  The last 0.25km was 20%. :o :o

I wonder what speed they were doing on that bit?  I'd be lucky to be moving at all, after that climb, but they still seem to be moving pretty rapidly, I'd guess of the order of 10mph (!), but it's hard to say with camera foreshortening and so forth.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 08, 2012, 11:37:49 am
IIRC, from the profile of the climb I saw, the overall average was 8-9% but with no consistency - the gradient kept changing, lots of steep ramps of around 12-15%. The bit where Froome attacked was 20% - the TV commentators said they'd built that extra steep bit on the end of the existing road just for the Tour!

I've seen figures posted online that estimate Froome's average in the final km as 21km/h. And a seriously impressive 6.5W/kg (which, before anyone says anything, means nothing on such a short climb).

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mzjo on July 08, 2012, 11:47:11 am
Don't think Froome will be allowed to go for the mountain classment. He may of course pick it up naturally by supporting Wiggo.

He won't be contesting the intermediate climbs on the big mountain stages, which is where the majority of the points are to be picked up.

There are two more mountaintop finishes, which he could win and which score double points... But he'd have to rely on all the intermediate climbs being shared out between lots of different riders to have a chance of taking the jersey himself.

d.

So the best chance for Evans is to stick like glue to Froome's wheel in the hope that he'll have a permission on one of the altitude finishes and Wiggo will be left behind? Realistically Chris Froome can only win a mountain stage if Brad is on his wheel at the end or Evans is already sunk without trace (and there is no other contender in view - difficult to predict after the first contact with the hills, it's a long way to Paris). I think we could see a very interesting race from the point of view of team tactics this year - a real chess match on wheels!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Biff on July 08, 2012, 12:32:56 pm
Wiggo, always good for a quote:

https://p.twimg.com/AxRvGRqCIAA0MSh.jpg:medium
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Justin(e) on July 08, 2012, 01:36:54 pm
Voigt on the attack again today.  I am reminded of a quote from Mr Larrington:

Quote
Some people wear Superman pyjamas
Superman wears Mr T pyjamas
Mr T wears Chuck Norris pyjamas
Chuck Norris wears Jens Voigt pyjamas
And Jens Voigt wears...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Justin(e) on July 08, 2012, 01:38:11 pm
Wiggo, always good for a quote:

https://p.twimg.com/AxRvGRqCIAA0MSh.jpg:medium

(*) putain d'enorme
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 08, 2012, 03:03:54 pm
Realistically Chris Froome can only win a mountain stage if Brad is on his wheel at the end or Evans is already sunk without trace

Yes, Froome is on strict domestique duty unless Wiggins is out of contention for whatever reason (either through crashing or through blowing up like he did in the Vuelta), so for Froome to win the other two mountain finishes, the team would have to find themselves in similar circumstances to yesterday, having ridden everyone else out of the race apart from Nibali and Evans. Which isn't inconceivable...

Evans tried to attack at the end yesterday but couldn't shake Brad off his wheel. That's when Froome decided to attack - he knew Evans couldn't go with him.

d.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: ran doner on July 08, 2012, 03:18:58 pm
Would Froome be able to make it to lead the team at the vuelta?

Most commentators seemed unsure that Sky/Wiggins could maintain form through TdF but they are doing ok so far.

It's just Uran and Henao look a bit off the top rung.

Throw in Froome and Porte (?) along with Cav, Stannard, Pate, Flecha etc and they could have a good stab at red.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: AndyK on July 08, 2012, 04:21:08 pm
Great stage!  :thumbsup: I found myself cheering on a Frenchman!  ;D   ;)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fungus on July 08, 2012, 04:28:09 pm
Yes superb today & good to see a win for FDJ at last  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mzjo on July 08, 2012, 05:16:36 pm
Great stage! I found myself cheering on a Frenchman!  ;D   ;)

Yeah! and what a performance from Marc Madiot  :thumbsup: He really put his heart into it. I thought he was looking to block the route with the team car just before the end, just to give a helping hand. And FDJ boys congratulating Thibault Pinot in the interview box (and Mrs M. as well) What a family!!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nuncio on July 08, 2012, 06:43:28 pm
And again today.

http://inrng.tumblr.com/post/26769888220/wiggins-quote 

I see Sky have strategically relinquished the lead in the team competition, and therefore also the yellow helmets.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: David Martin on July 08, 2012, 07:28:13 pm
Wiggins really has mastered the post-race interview, hasn't he? Sky's PR people must be having a nervous breakdown.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Pip on July 08, 2012, 07:41:19 pm
What a great stage today, with some big names firing off right from the start. Sky and Astana didn't want them to go, and there was a serious amount of effort expended by the likes of Chavenel, Voigt, Montcoutie, Mollema and others in ensuring the break stayed away, and an equal amount by Edward Boassen Haagen and various members of Astana to ensure that they didn't make it.

Great victory by Pineau, and great motivation by Madiot.

Just love the Tour
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: plum on July 08, 2012, 07:44:57 pm
Wiggins really has mastered the post-race interview, hasn't he? Sky's PR people must be having a nervous breakdown.
I'd have thought they'd be loving it, all these viral clips of him mouthing off probably get the Sky logo more airtime than the tour itself.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Gus on July 08, 2012, 07:53:05 pm
Wiggins really has mastered the post-race interview, hasn't he? Sky's PR people must be having a nervous breakdown.

I'm getting more and more respect for the guy. Finally a rider who says what thinks instead of just saying what the pr people
wants him to say.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: tiermat on July 08, 2012, 09:46:42 pm
Today's stage was more like it, tension, excitement and a French bloke getting all emotional.

Mark wossisname shouting out of the car at Pinot was just class.

Pinot's face as he crossed the line was brilliant, he so deserved that win.

Nice to see EBH no come home in the last group (at one point he was in danger of being swept up by the broom wagon)

I felt a bit sorry for Kessiakof, he had a great ride but jus couldn't keep it going.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 08, 2012, 10:41:27 pm
Someone mentioned itv player... Doh on me! I hadn't thought of that, so today I finally got to watch a stage (well, the highlights). Pinot go! Phil n Paul - I'm never sure which of them is which, but hmm, some of their commentary seems to be like Test Match Special but via Wikipedia. Old style, made-up "facts" Wikipedia. Oh, and Wiggins deserves a yellow jersey for his sideburns.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 08, 2012, 10:45:35 pm
Oh, and what's with the closing song of My Way in French? At least, that's what it sounds like. Is that a theme tune or does it vary from episode stage to stage?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 08, 2012, 10:52:37 pm
Also, for those who actually know a bit about racing (unlike me), what is the significance if any of Evans trying but failing to make up time on this stage? Does it hint at Wiggins being strong enough in hilly stages to keep up with Evans, or should it rather be taken as a sign of Evans' perseverance and combativeness, or is it just one of those things?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: David Martin on July 08, 2012, 11:15:08 pm
Evans will probably lose time to Brad in the TTs. (not much, but probably lose some). Evans already has a time deficit. He needs to make up time and every second counts.  He is an aggressive rider so will take any opportunity, and it was worth a try. Try and you might gain. Don't try, and you accept defeat.

good stage, great win by Pinot. Sad to see Sanchez out. I hope this doesn't go down as the tour that was won by everyone else crashing out (though it seems like it at times).

Cant wait for the Modcyclingphotos book after the tour (surely there has to be one.)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 09, 2012, 07:04:35 am
Wiggins really has mastered the post-race interview, hasn't he? Sky's PR people must be having a nervous breakdown.

I'm getting more and more respect for the guy. Finally a rider who says what thinks instead of just saying what the pr people
wants him to say.  :thumbsup:

Yes, Gerald Ratner would be proud of him.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Gaston Lagaffe on July 09, 2012, 07:09:31 am
Oh, and what's with the closing song of My Way in French? At least, that's what it sounds like. Is that a theme tune or does it vary from episode stage to stage?

Paul Anka stole the tune to write My Way, it's originally a french song, Comme D'habitude
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rainmaker on July 09, 2012, 08:58:13 am
 I really enjoyed yesterday's stage, it had a bit of everything and the jubilation shown by Marc Madiot and the other guy in the back of the team car showed how much the stage win meant to them.   Plus all the team members gatecrashing the post race interview to show their delight.;D
Slightly off topic, and I don't know if it has been shown on any network other than Eurosport, but the Specialised advert, with the young boy on a bike being "chased" by Tom Boonen in Paris Roubaix, deserves some mention.   IMO it is a classic.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: David Martin on July 09, 2012, 10:04:12 am
I love the specialised advert. Living the dreams..
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 09, 2012, 10:11:53 am
Oh, and what's with the closing song of My Way in French? At least, that's what it sounds like. Is that a theme tune or does it vary from episode stage to stage?

Paul Anka stole the tune to write My Way, it's originally a french song, Comme D'habitude
Thanks. I guess it was more likely to happen that way! Makes me wonder even more about the "Regrets, I've had a few" line and Piaf...

Meanwhile, back in the race... Sherwen or was it Ligget was hinting somehow that Wiggins knew something somehow special about today's TT.  ??? Well, we'll find out today.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Veloman on July 09, 2012, 10:19:12 am
Also, for those who actually know a bit about racing (unlike me), what is the significance if any of Evans trying but failing to make up time on this stage? Does it hint at Wiggins being strong enough in hilly stages to keep up with Evans, or should it rather be taken as a sign of Evans' perseverance and combativeness, or is it just one of those things?

Evans would far prefer to go after Wiggo today for time checks.  Now that Wiggo is going after Evans, Wiggo will know exactly where he is with respect to timings.  Always better to chase than be chased.  I believe Phil/Paul mentioned this yesterday!

Also, Evans will take every opportunity to take time out of Wiggo because you never know what might happen, puncture etc.  Long way to go and the time to relax is in those last 3km in Paris.  Imagine a mass pile-up on the last day, when Yellow fell and was badly injured.  Might be really important where others were on time.  That's why they will always race right to the end.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 09, 2012, 10:32:59 am
I believe they did mention that! I was trying to ask about the fact that Evans failed to break away from Wiggins, or to put it another way that Brad kept right up with him - whether anything can be drawn from that?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 09, 2012, 10:37:42 am
I believe they did mention that! I was trying to ask about the fact that Evans failed to break away from Wiggins, or to put it another way that Brad kept right up with him - whether anything can be drawn from that?
You can conclude that it's actually very hard to drop a rider of similar weight-n-power on the flat.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 09, 2012, 11:39:10 am
I believe they did mention that! I was trying to ask about the fact that Evans failed to break away from Wiggins, or to put it another way that Brad kept right up with him - whether anything can be drawn from that?

Eurosport played an interview with Nibali early on yesterday, in which he was asked if he was likely to attack on the final descent. He said probably not because his style of descending uses up too much energy and it wasn't a long or technical enough descent that he would be able to pull out enough time to make it worthwhile, plus there was a flatter bit at the bottom for the final few km.

In the end, he did have a little dig (I guess he's the kind of rider who just can't help himself) but was proved correct in his earlier assessment.

As Veloman says, Cadel had good reasons for having a go himself, the corollary being that Brad had good reasons not to allow him to escape. He was never going to be able to pull out enough of a gap unless Brad made a mistake (as Kessiakoff and Froome almost did), but it was worth taking a chance.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 09, 2012, 11:45:02 am
I believe they did mention that! I was trying to ask about the fact that Evans failed to break away from Wiggins, or to put it another way that Brad kept right up with him - whether anything can be drawn from that?

Eurosport played an interview with Nibali early on yesterday, in which he was asked if he was likely to attack on the final descent. He said probably not because his style of descending uses up too much energy and it wasn't a long or technical enough descent that he would be able to pull out enough time to make it worthwhile, plus there was a flatter bit at the bottom for the final few km.

In the end, he did have a little dig (I guess he's the kind of rider who just can't help himself) but was proved correct in his earlier assessment.

As Veloman says, Cadel had good reasons for having a go himself, the corollary being that Brad had good reasons not to allow him to escape. He was never going to be able to pull out enough of a gap unless Brad made a mistake (as Kessiakoff and Froome almost did), but it was worth taking a chance.

d.

Being interviewed at the end, Cadel said something like "that's just the kind of guy he is".
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 09, 2012, 11:48:19 am
Great cyclistsminds...

I like Nibali. He's always good to watch. He has panache. And he gives good interviews too.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rafletcher on July 09, 2012, 12:25:08 pm
What I didn't get was Brad and Froome taking turns in the line on the run in, instead of just sitting on.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nuncio on July 09, 2012, 12:46:55 pm
Mark wossisname shouting out of the car at Pinot was just class.
Apparently other FdJ riders were having to rip out their ear-pieces.

I might be able to race Brad Wiggins home if I time it to leave the bike shed at 15:39.  He has the following advantages:
- he's very fit
- he's a time-trial specialist (I'm more of your rouleur)
- he doesn't have to go up that hill from Pontardawe to Rhos.
- he has a better bike (I'm on the Thorn today rather than the Sabbath)
- he won't be carrying tyre levers, spare tube, or that space blanket I keep forgetting to remove from my Carradice
- he'll be wearing a silly hat
- he has more to win

I have the following advantages:
- A bit less pressure for me
- I only have 13.5km as opposed to his 40-odd.

It's going to be close.
 
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ewan Houzami on July 09, 2012, 03:45:32 pm
The question in my mind is will Brad deign to get out of the saddle on the hill at 22' ?!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Gus on July 09, 2012, 03:53:23 pm
Have they x-rayed Froome's bike for an engine, his flying  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: David Martin on July 09, 2012, 04:10:14 pm
It's not an engine. Team Sky have reverted to steel bikes, knowing everyone else is on carbon, and the Sky Battle bus has a Hyooooge magnet in it at the finish line..
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimO on July 09, 2012, 04:16:36 pm
That was rather impressive by Chris Frome. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 09, 2012, 04:37:16 pm
It's not an engine. Team Sky have reverted to steel bikes

Wiggo is using a Barley Saddlebag on his steel frame...it's the only explanation for that incredible time.

This Tour could turn into the Wiggo/Frome SKY roadshow is Evans doesn't watch out.

Wiggo's first ever stage win, that's quite amazing in itself.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Gus on July 09, 2012, 04:46:38 pm
It's not an engine. Team Sky have reverted to steel bikes

Wiggo is using a Barley Saddlebag on his steel frame...it's the only explanation for that incredible time.

This Tour could turn into the Wiggo/Frome SKY roadshow is Evans doesn't watch out.

Wiggo's first ever stage win, that's quite amazing in itself.

Or Sky disguised Teethgrinder as Wiggins.  He crushed all opponents. 
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 09, 2012, 05:06:35 pm
Funky Nell, that was awesome display by Wiggo and Froome today.  :o
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: hatler on July 09, 2012, 05:07:04 pm
Blimey.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimO on July 09, 2012, 05:19:38 pm
Wiggins now has 1'53" over Evans, so I guess he has to try and keep that, or alternatively, take some more time off of Evans on the mountain stages.

Of course, there's also the next Individual Time Trial stage, the day before they get to Paris, and if Bradley can do half as well in that as he did today and in the Prologue, then he'll be sorted.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Wowbagger on July 09, 2012, 05:32:09 pm
I love Wiggins' response to the doping accusers:

Quote
Asked in the post-stage press conference on Sunday evening how he responded to accusations of doping, Wiggins said: "I say they're just f****** w******. I cannot be doing with people like that. It justifies their own bone-idleness because they can't ever imagine applying themselves to do anything in their lives.

"It's easy for them to sit under a pseudonym on Twitter and write that sort of s***, rather than get off their a***s in their own lives and apply themselves and work hard at something and achieve something. And that's ultimately it. C****."

Is there a blue jersey for the best swearer?  :D

From: http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/news/wiggins-takes-aim-at-doping-accusers/
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 09, 2012, 05:33:30 pm
Evans and Nibali (and Froome?) need to assume Wiggins will get at least 60 seconds from that final time trial so they need to find 3-4 minutes from somewhere.  Since SKY appear to be the strongest climbers (and also capable of getting a good chain-gang going on the flat) that's going to be difficult.  If anything I could see Froome and Wiggins putting more time into the opposition on the long climbs.

Are there any mountain-top finishes? If so I wouldn't put it past SKY to try to do a Team Time-Trial style approach and see who can hang on to the end.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 09, 2012, 05:37:15 pm
Two more mountain-top finishes. Friday and next Thursday, IIRC.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Snakehips on July 09, 2012, 06:36:00 pm
There's a substantial amount of incredulity being expressed after today's results , particularly in the French tongue.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 09, 2012, 06:42:12 pm
There's a substantial amount of incredulity being expressed after today's results , particularly in the French tongue.
They can refer to Brad's answer from yesterday  ;D


The polite version; Olympic track gold medallist (and WR holder) loses weight, trains like buggery, 3 years later wins a time-trial comfortably. Who'd have thought?  ::-)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: David Martin on July 09, 2012, 06:43:00 pm
Why? the french riders did as well or better compared to Wiggins/Froome at the Dauphine. Or is it somewhat sour grapes..
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: jogler on July 09, 2012, 06:46:02 pm
There's a substantial amount of incredulity being expressed after today's results , particularly in the French tongue.

the typical gallic response to a winner not being French
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 09, 2012, 06:49:50 pm
Le cunts!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Gaston Lagaffe on July 09, 2012, 06:57:16 pm
Le cunts!

bobb mind your language please :o





It's les cunts! ;)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Jakob on July 09, 2012, 07:17:12 pm
People need to stop taking Twitter seriously...
I am, however, afraid that this tour will be considered a victory by default. Not sure what has happened to the rest of BMC, but Evans is Wiggins only real competitor left in the tour and has seemingly zero support.
Barring any crashes, I can't see him losing this...which unfortunately makes for a boring tour.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: hubner on July 09, 2012, 07:30:44 pm
I love Wiggins' response to the doping accusers:

Quote
Asked in the post-stage press conference on Sunday evening how he responded to accusations of doping, Wiggins said: "I say they're just f****** w******. I cannot be doing with people like that. It justifies their own bone-idleness because they can't ever imagine applying themselves to do anything in their lives.

"It's easy for them to sit under a pseudonym on Twitter and write that sort of s***, rather than get off their a***s in their own lives and apply themselves and work hard at something and achieve something. And that's ultimately it. C****."

Is there a blue jersey for the best swearer?  :D

From: http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/news/wiggins-takes-aim-at-doping-accusers/

So he answers the question by not answering the question but instead mouths off nasty and expletive laden nonsense.

I haven't watch the Tour this year but in the previous years I've watched recorded programmes from the TV and whenever they show the interviews I always fast forward it. Either they come across as a complete knobhead, like Wiggins, or they only interview riders from"English speaking" countries, why do they assume viewers are automatically more interested in a domestique who happens to be Austrialian than the stage winner who might be be from say Belgium.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 09, 2012, 07:35:38 pm
Aww, you lot have gone and spoiled today's stage for me now.  ;) What time does it come up on itv player? Just looked and disappointed to find it's not there yet.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Gareth Rees on July 09, 2012, 07:44:15 pm
I love Wiggins' response to the doping accusers.

I don't. It's the Armstrong tactic: don't answer the (entirely reasonable) question, but attack the character of the person asking. I'm sorry to see Wiggins adopting it.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimO on July 09, 2012, 07:46:57 pm
... or they only interview riders from"English speaking" countries, why do they assume viewers are automatically more interested in a domestique who happens to be Austrialian than the stage winner who might be be from say Belgium.

I think that's more about the ease of interviewing people who can speak English vs having to either have a translation done afterwards, or do one simultaneously, which interrupts the flow of the interview.

I've seen many interviews on the UK TV coverage of Le Tour with cyclists from non-English speaking countries, and sometimes with those whose English is not that brilliant, although they try, which is probably the sort of agro you can do without after spending a somewhat exhausting day trying to finish and win a stage.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 09, 2012, 07:54:29 pm
I love Wiggins' response to the doping accusers.

I don't. It's the Armstrong tactic: don't answer the (entirely reasonable) question, but attack the character of the person asking. I'm sorry to see Wiggins adopting it.
I'm sure his team could have prepped him with some boring politician-spin-style answer that actually said even less. But I far prefer the honest answer - that's why we listen to interviews, not to hear the PR-department's version of things.
(I'd like to think I'd say the same thing even if I didn't believe his answer!)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: hubner on July 09, 2012, 08:00:17 pm
I love Wiggins' response to the doping accusers.

I don't. It's the Armstrong tactic: don't answer the (entirely reasonable) question, but attack the character of the person asking. I'm sorry to see Wiggins adopting it.
I'm sure his team could have prepped him with some boring politician-spin-style answer that actually said even less. But I far prefer the honest answer - that's why we listen to interviews, not to hear the PR-department's version of things.
(I'd like to think I'd say the same thing even if I didn't believe his answer!)

If that's an "honest answer", then we'd all be better off not to listen to any more interviews.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 09, 2012, 08:02:57 pm
I love Wiggins' response to the doping accusers.

I don't. It's the Armstrong tactic: don't answer the (entirely reasonable) question, but attack the character of the person asking. I'm sorry to see Wiggins adopting it.
I'm sure his team could have prepped him with some boring politician-spin-style answer that actually said even less. But I far prefer the honest answer - that's why we listen to interviews, not to hear the PR-department's version of things.
(I'd like to think I'd say the same thing even if I didn't believe his answer!)
Yep. I'm getting to like Wiggins for his to-the-pointness. He does it with humour and good grace, on the whole - I haven't seen the contentious interview in q. He has cool sideburns too!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Gareth Rees on July 09, 2012, 08:29:53 pm
(I'd like to think I'd say the same thing even if I didn't believe his answer!)

It's not really a matter of believing the answer or not. Given that everyone who won the Tour since 1991 (except for Sastre and Evans) has tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs, the doping concerns are perfectly legitimate and it's a bad sign when someone chooses to attack the character of people who bring them up.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mzjo on July 09, 2012, 08:33:21 pm
I love Wiggins' response to the doping accusers.

I don't. It's the Armstrong tactic: don't answer the (entirely reasonable) question, but attack the character of the person asking. I'm sorry to see Wiggins adopting it.
I'm sure his team could have prepped him with some boring politician-spin-style answer that actually said even less. But I far prefer the honest answer - that's why we listen to interviews, not to hear the PR-department's version of things.
(I'd like to think I'd say the same thing even if I didn't believe his answer!)
Yep. I'm getting to like Wiggins for his to-the-pointness. He does it with humour and good grace, on the whole - I haven't seen the contentious interview in q. He has cool sideburns too!

No controversial Wiggins interviews have got so much as a mention on french eurosport or fr2/3. The french were rather keener to point out the purity of his tt riding and the "professionalism" of his approach to the stage (I was going to say preparation but there are those reading who might misinterprete my words). Laurent Jalabert, questionned on where Brad could be attacked, thought that the best possibility would be Nibali attacking on the descents, as the climbs and the flat seemed to be a bit problematic. He also said that he could have a bad day but that didn't help the opposition with Froome sitting at 3rd on GC. Everyone agrees that Paris is still a long way away.
Mr Wiggins actually interviews very well in french (not surprising given his background but still nice to hear). Asked about his tt ride he remarked that with the years of pursuit riding he had been using the position and the technique for a long time now.
I got the impression that the course conditions improved as the day got on, looking at the splits for even fairly modest tt riders. Anyone else think that?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: andyoxon on July 09, 2012, 08:36:01 pm
Yep. I'm getting to like Wiggins for his to-the-pointness. He does it with humour and good grace, on the whole - I haven't seen the contentious interview in q. He has cool sideburns too!

 On Wiggo's sideburns...  POV on "Tour de France 2012: live"  DT    ;)

Quote
"Bradley Wiggins' sideburns will never be back in fashion", reckons Sandra T. Ingrassia.

"Besides, they look like they have the mange, with the top being thinned out by his helmet straps and/or his sunglasses. Really, he should just shave those awful things!"
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 09, 2012, 08:37:54 pm
I didn't see the interview but I suspect his tirade was against anonymous twitterers rather than against the journalist who asked the question; a case of "kick the cat".  If he really thinks that no-one else does a job in the world other than someone who starts off supremely gifted anyway, then he's just wrong.  Specifically, if he doesn't think someone who spends his day using his elbows to try and get near enough to stick his recorder in the face of a toilet-mouth then he has no respect.  I think he's as nervous as hell at the moment and I would prefer to put his juvenile response down to that.  Has he always had a short fuse?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ewan Houzami on July 09, 2012, 09:04:48 pm
It helps if you consider his early life. I get the idea that it wasn't exactly predictable and he didn't grow up in a nice stable middle-class family. His father (a racing cyclist himself back in the day) didn't have much time for who he considered fools, and left the lad when he was young and returned to Australia where he wanted nothing to do with him. Who know what drives Bradley on? Is he still seeking his (now dead father's) approval? Certainly having your personality shaped by an unstable dad in your formative years is not going to lead you to being diplomatic when you feel somebody has pretty much just insulted you. DAMHIKT
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 09, 2012, 09:11:31 pm
I think Wiggins would have been on to a loser either way. He has a pop at the keyboard warriors who take advantage of the moral hazard of the internet to post stuff that would get their faces filled in if said face-to-face, and people are getting all po-faced.

If he had given a non-committal answer, or had avoided/polite dismissed the questions, he'd be accused of not tackling the issue, or be called characterless and corporate.

To put the outburst in some kind of context, he's normally quite good-natured in front of the press, even when he's being asked mind-numbingly inane questions (see http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=59208.0), but according to the Telegraph's Brendan Gallagher, in this instance, he had already had half an hour wasted by French TV as they showed him a "funny" film about how nobody in Britain likes cycling. And then his interviewer repeatedly pointed out that nobody back home will have been watching his yellow jersey ride because they will have all been watching Andy Murray.

Now it could be argued that he should have risen above the provocation, or that an extra helping of being dicked around by the media goes with the territory of being in yellow, but there are limits...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/tour-de-france/9386002/Tour-de-France-2012-strip-away-the-bad-language-and-Bradley-Wigginss-tirade-was-actually-very-eloquent.html
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Gareth Rees on July 09, 2012, 09:13:42 pm
I think Wiggins would have been on to a loser either way. He has a pop at the keyboard warriors who take advantage of the moral hazard of the internet to post stuff that would get their faces filled in if said face-to-face, and people are getting all po-faced. If he had given a non-committal answer, or had avoided/polite dismissed the questions, he'd be accused of not tackling the issue, or be called characterless and corporate.

There's a third thing he could have said, you know...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Mrs Pingu on July 09, 2012, 09:26:23 pm
Never mind the bollocks.... that was amazeballs!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 09, 2012, 09:45:33 pm
I think Wiggins would have been on to a loser either way. He has a pop at the keyboard warriors who take advantage of the moral hazard of the internet to post stuff that would get their faces filled in if said face-to-face, and people are getting all po-faced. If he had given a non-committal answer, or had avoided/polite dismissed the questions, he'd be accused of not tackling the issue, or be called characterless and corporate.

There's a third thing he could have said, you know...

The question has been asked loads of times before and if he'd just given the same answer that he'd given before everyone would have shrugged their shoulders and left it at that.  But instead, his ill disciplined outburst has made headline news of it.  Completely counter productive.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 09, 2012, 09:49:05 pm
I love the specialised advert. Living the dreams..

Me too  :thumbsup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BwnuBVUBsQ
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: David Martin on July 09, 2012, 09:53:16 pm
Has anyone actually heard the question? It was asked what he thought about those anonymous twitterers who were accusing him and Sky of doping. His answer was honest and to the point.  And only to be expected after 6 hours riding on the limit, the joys of podium ceremonies and so on.

He answered the question that was asked, not the question many people seem to think may have been asked.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: perpetual dan on July 09, 2012, 10:02:16 pm
The question was
Quote
"There was some chatter in the Twitter-sphere about the comparison between Sky and US Postal," said the AP journalist. "I'm wondering your reaction. And, what do you say to the cynics who say you have to be doped up to win the Tour de France?"

Seems like a reasonable answer to the question to me.

(I started looking for the quote before David's post arrived, thought I'd post anyway.)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Gareth Rees on July 09, 2012, 10:17:18 pm
It was asked what he thought about those anonymous twitterers who were accusing him and Sky of doping. His answer was honest and to the point.

It's not to the point at all. The concerns of the twitterers are entirely reasonable, even if their accusations are false in this case. He could have said something like, "It's only natural, after the many disappointments of the last twenty years, that people should be suspicious that riders have to be doping to win."
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Karla on July 09, 2012, 10:29:32 pm
Imagine coming out of your final exams (I'm guessing that you've never won a pro bike race, but have taken some fairly important exams at some point.)

You've spent hours revising for these, and have just sat in an exam hall doing hard maths / essays for the past three hours.  You rose to the challenge and are rightly proud of your answers.

Someone sticks a mic in your face.  "There are some people [who know nothing - Ed.] who say that exams are worthlessly easy these days, and that all students cheat anyway.  What do you say?" 

I'm guessing your answer wouldn't be very polite!  Look around the internet and you'll see some keyboard warriors who are anything but reasonable: they're talking out of ignorance and have no idea which cyclists may be doping or even what Wiggins has achieved in his career.  Their belief that 'cyclists dope innit' isn't based on evidence, it's based on lazy thinking.  I don't like people insulting me based on lazy thinking, neither it seems does Wiggins.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Wowbagger on July 09, 2012, 10:30:52 pm
It seems to me that the question was couched in a particular way to elicit a specific reaction. The objective is to sell papers and I'd suggest that the journalist, having achieved that reaction, has been successful in that objective. It would be entirely predictable if the anonymous twitters were journalists themselves, creating their own story.

Whatever reply he gave he was onto a loser. I thought he pitched his response about right.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 09, 2012, 10:38:36 pm
I'm not at all sure that his response getting into the press is a bad thing, as almost everyone seems to be assuming. It gets him and Sky more coverage, it brings him to the attention of people who might not be interested in cycle racing, it shows character of whatever sort and it has absolutely no effect on the result of the race.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Gareth Rees on July 09, 2012, 10:40:53 pm
Imagine coming out of your final exams (I'm guessing that you've never won a pro bike race, but have taken some fairly important exams at some point.)

Someone sticks a mic in your face.  "There are some people [who know nothing - Ed.] who say that exams are worthlessly easy these days, and that all students cheat anyway.  What do you say?" 

I'm guessing your answer wouldn't be very polite!

If in fact cheating were rife, and if the majority of the people who got the top mark in the last twenty years had been revealed to have cheated at some point, then this would be a fair question, wouldn't it? In such a circumstance, an honest exam taker ought to be angry at the cheaters, and at the people running the corrupt exam system which allows the cheaters to profit from their cheating, not at the people who are legitimately asking questions about it.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: onb on July 09, 2012, 11:10:06 pm
Great quote from david millar on twitter

Wiggo's now better at me in everything to do with cycling, profanity-filled interviews were all I had left. Now he's taken that crown. Darn
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Wowbagger on July 09, 2012, 11:13:25 pm
Great quote from david millar on twitter

Wiggo's now better at me in everything to do with cycling, profanity-filled interviews were all I had left. Now he's taken that crown. Darn

It's not surprising if "Darn!" is the best he can do.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 09, 2012, 11:14:01 pm
or they only interview riders from"English speaking" countries, why do they assume viewers are automatically more interested in a domestique who happens to be Austrialian than the stage winner who might be be from say Belgium.

You're obviously not watching Eurosport. They had a cracking interview with Nibali yesterday.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Von Broad on July 09, 2012, 11:19:30 pm
Wiggins/Froome

What interests me [as somebody who doesn't follow profesional cycling from one TDF to the next] is the mutual support and strength that's being generated between these two. You only had to see how they embraced each other after Froome won that summit finish to see it so.

It might appear that it's all about Wiggins. In a sense it is, but it's also equally about Froome. Where Wiggins is, so there is Froome close by. Very powerful feeling when you can plug into that kind of team spirit.

Fascinating stuff.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 09, 2012, 11:26:55 pm
Bike Snob NYC's take on C***gate (http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/cultural-differences-cunts-and-ammo.html).

Quote
And should he actually win this thing, you can be sure Wiggins will leverage his "c" word the same way Armstrong did, after which it's only a matter of time before the wrists of Fred-dom* are bejewled with C***Strong bracelets.

* "Fred" being an American term for a newbie cyclist, particularly one with all the gear and no idea.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 09, 2012, 11:33:10 pm
Can we order some "YACF C***strong" bracelets?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 09, 2012, 11:36:19 pm
If in fact cheating were rife, and if the majority of the people who got the top mark in the last twenty years had been revealed to have cheated at some point, then this would be a fair question, wouldn't it? In such a circumstance, an honest exam taker ought to be angry at the cheaters, and at the people running the corrupt exam system which allows the cheaters to profit from their cheating, not at the people who are legitimately asking questions about it.

I'm bored of hearing this "surely you can understand why we're suspicious?" line. It's disingenuous bullshit.

First off, Brad has stated his position on doping many times in the past. Does he really need to repeat it?

Second, a deliberately needling, provocative question in a press conference with the sole purpose of generating headlines is not hard-hitting investigative journalism, it's lazy hackery.

Third, if you look beyond the superficial resemblances between Sky and USPS/Discovery and study the facts and figures, you will see that their performances don't really bear comparison.

Here are a couple of interesting tweets from Jani Brajkovic to consider:
Quote
@janibrajkovic (https://twitter.com/janibrajkovic/status/222367781931335680): Couple of years ago every1 was laughing at @TeamSky for doing million things trying to improve performance, now when they're flying...

Quote
@janibrajkovic (https://twitter.com/janibrajkovic/status/222368263445819392): ....it's very easy to say they must be doing something... Yes, they r, training, nutrition, dedication, etc. well deserved

I'm not saying this is proof that Sky are clean, but knee-jerk cynicism is not the only valid response to an impressive performance.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 09, 2012, 11:48:36 pm
It sounds typical of Dave Brailsford's attention to detail.  It worked in the Velodrome and it seems to be working on the road.  He doesn't leave any stone unturned when it comes to preparation and he is a master at getting a team to peak at the right time, even sacrificing races along the way in the name of it.

I hope that Wiggins wins it and SKY show the World that British can be best when we put our minds to it (I remember the Australian Track Cycling coach saying they needed to learn from and copy Team GB's coaching methods, after a recent drubbing at Manchester.  That says something when Australians are envious of British sport coaching).
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 10, 2012, 12:01:37 am
It sounds typical of Dave Brailsford's attention to detail.  It worked in the Velodrome and it seems to be working on the road.  He doesn't leave any stone unturned when it comes to preparation and he is a master at getting a team to peak at the right time, even sacrificing races along the way in the name of it.

Precisely. The whole Sky team trained on today's TT route months in advance AND WERE THE ONLY TEAM TO DO SO. Astonishing, really.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Feline on July 10, 2012, 12:20:04 am
I am loving Bradley more and more having listened to his recent comments to camera and interview :D
He seems to have upset some of the stuffiest up-themselves holier-than-thou kinds in the process ... epic  :thumbsup:
Personally I would have called the twattering idiots twats not cunts, but hey that's just me. Go Bradley  ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Karla on July 10, 2012, 12:29:21 am
 :thumbsup:

Team Sky also have shedloads (or c***loads?) of money.  It's noticeable this year how most of the riders contesting sprints (with the honourable exception of Peter Sagan) cut their teeth in the High Road team.  What High Road did for sprint trains, Sky are now doing for GC teams: there are several riders in Sky who could all lead teams in their own right.  Wiggo (obviously), Cav (has done), Rogers (has done), Froome (probably will at the Vuelta, and I doubt that will be the last time), EBH, Thomas (who is possibly kicking himself for steering away from road this year), anyone else anybody would like to name? 
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 10, 2012, 07:53:15 am
If SKY have all the money then I'd be tempted to offer Sagan a deal next year.

I don't know how long Wiggins has got left at this top level but between him, Cav, Froome and Sagan, they'd have someone who could win any type of stage. Realistically, they could be domestiques for Froome.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Jaded on July 10, 2012, 08:04:12 am
It was asked what he thought about those anonymous twitterers who were accusing him and Sky of doping. His answer was honest and to the point.

It's not to the point at all. The concerns of the twitterers are entirely reasonable, even if their accusations are false in this case. He could have said something like, "It's only natural, after the many disappointments of the last twenty years, that people should be suspicious that riders have to be doping to win."

Well, they may be, but taking the words of a few odd individuals and propelling them to the world stage in this way is Daily Mailesque, in the worst possible way.  It's like taking a conversation from some of the thickest, racist, ignorant pub bores and presenting it as the lead item on the Ten o'clock news.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 10, 2012, 08:09:01 am
I didn't see the interview but I suspect his tirade was against anonymous twitterers rather than against the journalist who asked the question; a case of "kick the cat".  If he really thinks that no-one else does a job in the world other than someone who starts off supremely gifted anyway, then he's just wrong. 

What an astonishing conclusion to draw from so little basis.

Quote
Has he always had a short fuse?
Well have you watched any of his other dozens of interviews? Or even listened to the rest of the press conference leading up to the twitter/drugs question?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 10, 2012, 09:10:11 am
Anonymous idiots tweeting about cycling should not be taken seriously. But they must be extremely annoying to those doing, rather than talking. I'd use some pretty foul language in Wiggo's position.

I thought Wiggo's reaction was completely reasonable considering he'd just bust a gut (twice in two days) to stop an ungainly, last-ditch attack by Cuddles by twiddling after him.

And FWIW, it looks to me like there's not much doping going on - stage results, between the favourites at least, are very close and Sky's results look like what you get if you train the entire team well, recce the routes properly, build team spirit through good management and have a plan for every inch of the route. Big up Baldy Dave.

No strange and sudden "successes" this year - nothing to compare with the odd performances we've seen in previous years where a rider who seems to be doing averagely (for him) suddenly leaps off the front and flattens the opposition. No Tyler Hamilton or Floyd Landis (or, dare I say it, Alberto Contador)-style wins here.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: vorsprung on July 10, 2012, 09:17:06 am
There's a substantial amount of incredulity being expressed after today's results , particularly in the French tongue.

The French could have got a great big team with a shed load of cash being chucked at it.  They could have spent a few years building it up.  They could have had their GC hopeful on form.  They could be in the best position to win the TdF for years and years and years.  But they didn't, GB did and the TdF is now Skys to loose

As for the doping sh**, if you've read Wiggins biography it is extremely unlikely he would dope.  Never say never of course.  Wiggos dad was a track cyclist in the 60s and was doped up to the eyeballs.  Doping ruined his dads life.  And Wiggo as a kid could see this.  During the worst years of doping Wiggo lost to people who were on the sauce.  At the moment the use of drugs has gone through a blip, so many big names have been caught that IMHO there is slightly less of it going on.

Therefore, Wiggo is on a more level playing field and that's another reason he is in the yellow
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 10, 2012, 09:21:27 am
I am loving Bradley more and more having listened to his recent comments to camera and interview :D
He seems to have upset some of the stuffiest up-themselves holier-than-thou kinds in the process ... epic  :thumbsup:
Personally I would have called the twattering idiots twats not cunts, but hey that's just me. Go Bradley  ;D

Me too. And the po-faced holier-than-thou arseholes who don't like it know what they can do. Get me that C***Strong band; it'd be a fine answer to those who doubt hard work, talent and application.*



* Ahem. Not that I have any talent, and I'm not too good at the hard work and application stuff either. Oh well.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: vorsprung on July 10, 2012, 09:22:03 am
http://www.lequipe.fr/qdj/2642

La question du jour (Mardi 10 juillet )
Bradley Wiggins va-t-il gagner le Tour de France ?

    
Code: [Select]
Voter
OUI   56%
Oui
NON  37%
Non
NSP   7%
NSP

4 706 votes
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 10, 2012, 09:28:50 am
There's a substantial amount of incredulity being expressed after today's results , particularly in the French tongue.

The French could have got a great big team with a shed load of cash being chucked at it. 

They have, in FdJ, which is (I hope) why Thibaut Pinot won the other day. But they don't have the management to capitalise on the riders and the money. Sorry, M Madiot, but passion alone is not enough.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 10, 2012, 10:03:21 am
I'm another one who's liking Wiggins more and more as a character rather than just admiring him as a rider. I think his language was a bit ott but not his reaction as a whole. But regardless of that, he comes across as remarkably likeable for such a successful sportsman.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 10, 2012, 10:23:05 am
Team Sky also have shedloads (or c***loads?) of money.

Yes, that thought crossed my mind moments after I'd logged off last night, otherwise I would have appended it to my previous comment. After all, it's how they lured Wiggins away from Garmin, and how they made sure they got Cav rather than see him go to another team when HTC expired. The likes of Porte, Uran, Sivtsov, EBH etc wouldn't have come cheap either. They are the Man City of cycling. Money is certainly a factor in their success.

If SKY have all the money then I'd be tempted to offer Sagan a deal next year.

Not sure how Sagan would fit in at Sky when they already have Cav and EBH, not to mention Swifty and others coming up through the ranks.

Quote
I don't know how long Wiggins has got left at this top level but between him, Cav, Froome and Sagan, they'd have someone who could win any type of stage. Realistically, they could be domestiques for Froome.

Froome is Lemond to Wiggins's Hinault... Except Wiggins isn't nearly as exciting a rider to watch as Hinault. Froome is the complete package though. A lot of people think he should already be team leader.

And don't forget Geraint Thomas - just imagine how strong Sky would have been this year with him available... the mind boggles.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 10, 2012, 10:30:14 am
They have, in FdJ, which is (I hope) why Thibaut Pinot won the other day. But they don't have the management to capitalise on the riders and the money. Sorry, M Madiot, but passion alone is not enough.

Yes, I think it's a cultural thing more than just a money thing. The French teams are still very much mired in the traditions of the sport (except that one - Madiot is a vociferous anti-doper). Brailsford has come to road racing with no history in the sport, so no preconceptions about how things should be done. Garmin are the same to some extent, founded on the principle of looking at new ways to approach the sport - they lack Sky's resources but still managed to win the Giro this year. Their strong team ethic is one of the main reasons for that (AIUI, Garmin were the first team to insist on all their riders living near the team's central "hub", for training and monitoring purposes).

I think in the coming years we'll see the Continental teams start to adopt the methods of Sky and Garmin. It could be a very exciting time for the sport.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 10, 2012, 10:32:05 am
Can we order some "YACF C***strong" bracelets?

£1.88 each for 50, £1.30 each for 100. Single colour, embossed. Don't know if this includes VAT.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Mr Larrington on July 10, 2012, 10:38:04 am
Froome is Lemond to Wiggins's Hinault... Except Wiggins isn't nearly as exciting a rider to watch as Hinault.

Somehow I can't imagine Wiggo having fisticuffs with angry farmers blocking the route.  Le Blaireau decked the nearest one with a right cross and rode past the rest.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 10, 2012, 10:40:29 am
matt, I can't tidy this reply up properly, so I hope you can follow it!

I didn't see the interview but I suspect his tirade was against anonymous twitterers rather than against the journalist who asked the question; a case of "kick the cat".  If he really thinks that no-one else does a job in the world other than someone who starts off supremely gifted anyway, then he's just wrong. 

What an astonishing conclusion to draw from so little basis.

Quote

You're absolutely right, Matt, which is why I said "really".  I have absolutely no axe to grind on this at all.  I think he would have liked to get at the twitterers but couldn't which is why he let fly via the journalist.  I don't think his choice of words was the finest in the world and I certainly don't take a delight in it but it must be incredibly wearing to have your every performance under scrutiny, though of course, there is history to consider.  I think maybe, just to be absolutely certain, the authorities ought to search his sideburns!



Quote
Has he always had a short fuse?
Well have you watched any of his other dozens of interviews? Or even listened to the rest of the press conference leading up to the twitter/drugs question?

No, which is why I asked the question; there was no side to it at all.  This internet is a dangerous place, isn't it?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Notsototalnewbie on July 10, 2012, 10:44:15 am
Rob has been following this Tour increasingly avidly and is now making noises about wanting us to get a late deal to go to Paris to watch the final stage. Any tips/pointers from those of you who’ve done so?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 10, 2012, 10:56:48 am
Peter,
Fair enough. I guess my main beef is that Wiggo is (IMHO) a gentleman of the sport and is very polite and reasonable in 99% of interviews. Most athletes have been asked a stupid provocative question by journos, purely to generate column inches. The press don't really earn any intelligent replies to their questions.

(I think if you reread your post you can see the strong anti-Wiggo undercurrent that I inferred from it. I'm happy to accept that it was not intended  :thumbsup:)

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 10, 2012, 10:57:14 am
Somehow I can't imagine Wiggo having fisticuffs with angry farmers blocking the route.  Le Blaireau decked the nearest one with a right cross and rode past the rest.

Can you not? Given some of his recent behaviour, I think it's looking increasingly likely that he will punch someone sooner or later.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 10, 2012, 11:03:49 am
Peter,
Fair enough. I guess my main beef is that Wiggo is (IMHO) a gentleman of the sport and is very polite and reasonable in 99% of interviews. Most athletes have been asked a stupid provocative question by journos, purely to generate column inches. The press don't really earn any intelligent replies to their questions.

(I think if you reread your post you can see the strong anti-Wiggo undercurrent that I inferred from it. I'm happy to accept that it was not intended  :thumbsup:)

Yes, you're right, matt; I guess the "toilet-mouth" didn't help!  I was trying to imagine being on the receiving end of that (I'm not a saint myself in this or any other aspect!)  I accept what others say about Bradley being a generally good bloke and am not anti-him at all.  I'm thrilled by his performance and that of the whole team - and of Sagan and Cancellara and Greipel.  It's a great tour!

Cheers

Peter
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 10, 2012, 11:38:13 am

If SKY have all the money then I'd be tempted to offer Sagan a deal next year.

Not sure how Sagan would fit in at Sky when they already have Cav and EBH, not to mention Swifty and others coming up through the ranks.


I was thinking that Sagan seems able to win stages with an uphill sprint, Cavendish can win on the flat sprints, Froome can win the really difficult (20%) sprints, Wiggins can win the TTs and possibly (to be seen) Wiggins and/or Froome can win the long Alpine type stages.

Of course though I'd prefer SKY to be a team GB as much as possible so Wiggins, Froome, Cav, Swift and Thomas would make an excellent start.

Long may the Brailsford production-line continue.

Shame it can't be the BBC rather than SKY
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: David Martin on July 10, 2012, 11:47:05 am
Team Sky have focussed very strongly on the marginal details, and comprehensive detailed analysis.

This is evident when you look at a) how they have brought in Dr Tim Kerrison(?) who has a strong track record in swimming to transfer the knowledge they have developed there into cycling. The competition structure is different so they have strongly moved away from the 'racing into form' to training specifically for the needs of the race.

Comments like 'we looked at that Vuelta stage and realised that I need to improve my explosive power and upper body strength so I have been spending time doing that in the gym' - 'we calculated what power output we needed to do to match or exceed the pace on XXX climbs and have trained for that' - problems when the road goes above 1500m? find a trianing camp at altitude and do long days replicating and exceeding race pace on similar climbs at altitude.

It is about focus and specific training. The days of doing every race a la mercx or Hinault are long gone. Your focus is dictated by how important the races are and what the sponsor (Sky/BC) gets back from them.   So all the little races are not important for Wiggo, Sky put a different team in place and let Wiggins concentrate on the tour specific training. Then the payback is enormous - Sky's marketing executives must be wetting themselves having their brand prominent in every newspaper and most of their competitor TV channels worldwide.

This doesn't come cheap. As one paper put it, you have a 1M/year rider supported by 3 guys each of whom are on 500k/yr and all of whom would be GC contenders in their own right, and they are riding to support one guy on 2M/yr. Sky have bought the GC competition and put it to the service of Brad. Because he is right now their best chance of the win in Paris.

Froome is a rising star but does not yet have the experience to lead a team - he will probably get the chance in the Vuelta (which I would suspect Brad won't ride) to go for glory himself and will have the support of a slightly less able Sky team (include Uran and Henao) depending on who is available/fit.

I don't think we have seen the best of Sky yet but they have to be careful to conserve their energy. Cav is doing a great team job as well as picking up a stage here and there. I don't think he will be going for any more intermediate points as he is so far down the green classification, but expect a leadout tour de force on the Champs Elysee (where Cav has never lost)
 


 
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 10, 2012, 12:19:36 pm
Reports coming through of a police raid on the Cofidis hotel this morning, Remi di Gregorio and two others arrested...

:facepalm:

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rafletcher on July 10, 2012, 12:43:38 pm
What curious timing to arrest a French rider on a French team on the TdF, in a case opened last year. The other two were apparently arrested in Marseille, whence the judgement came.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 10, 2012, 12:59:48 pm
The French press have been very quick to point out that the case was opened when Di Gregorio was riding for Astana, but it doesn't look great for Cofidis either - even if the team was nothing to do with his doping, if he was carrying on doping after he joined them, it doesn't reflect well on their internal controls. You'd have thought that Cofidis in particular would have learned that lesson.

The twitter cunts will be having a field day but you only have to look at how the likes of Sky and Garmin are set up to see that this kind of thing wouldn't be possible there.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 10, 2012, 01:16:51 pm
It wouldn't be a proper TdF rest day without somebody getting busted. :demon:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nuncio on July 10, 2012, 01:37:58 pm

This is evident when you look at a) how they have brought in Dr Tim Kerrison(?) who has a strong track record in swimming to transfer the knowledge they have developed there into cycling.

Wasn't there some scoffing at BW and Sky when they started doing the warming down on rollers after races?  I think I read somewhere that Kerrison was amazed that this wasn't done. I've spotted others doing it now.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 10, 2012, 01:45:34 pm
Seems like half the (non-SKY) post-stage interviews are done on rollers. Does seem a bit bleedin' obvious in hindsight, doesn't it!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: red marley on July 10, 2012, 01:53:24 pm
Rob has been following this Tour increasingly avidly and is now making noises about wanting us to get a late deal to go to Paris to watch the final stage. Any tips/pointers from those of you who’ve done so?

I did this in Paris four years ago and it was good fun. We were at the the Arc de Triumph turn which was a great place to watch the riders as they take the corner. As it is at the top of the 'hill' you also get a good view of the straight. The disadvantage is that should there be an exciting sprint finish, you'll not get to see it directly.

To guarantee a front row position, you need to get there early (I think we were there about 11:00am and the riders arrived late afternoon). Was quite fun waiting for the first few hours, chatting with others, soaking up the atmosphere. It did get a bit stressful in the last hour or so before the riders arrived though. Plenty of (mostly French) people trying to push their way to the front. One tactic that several people tried was to send their kids through to the front so they could get a view (fair enough), and then attempt to push the rest of the adult family through to join them (not so fair enough). You need to be pretty firm to hold your position. Having said that, it was a great experience overall.

It was also fun in Paris before and after the event - quite a party atmosphere, so if you can get a few days away, I think it is worth it. We even managed to Velib up and down the closed Champs Elysees a few times which was rather nice.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Notsototalnewbie on July 10, 2012, 02:06:05 pm
Thanks jo. Just the sort of thing I was after.

People shamelessly pushing their way to the front reminds me of festivals where I’ve waited at the front for ages for the headline act…or even London Transport…thanks for the warning.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 10, 2012, 02:15:01 pm
The French press have been very quick to point out that the case was opened when Di Gregorio was riding for Astana,


That figures, perhaps...

Quote
but it doesn't look great for Cofidis either - even if the team was nothing to do with his doping, if he was carrying on doping after he joined them, it doesn't reflect well on their internal controls. You'd have thought that Cofidis in particular would have learned that lesson.

Indeed. Millar all those years ago, now blackening the name of Wiggo. Oh, there's an idea...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: road-runner on July 10, 2012, 02:20:48 pm
Indeed. Millar all those years ago, now blackening the name of Wiggo. Oh, there's an idea...

I am not a smoker but it is friends that are ex-smokers that seem to rant on more than I do about how selfish smokers are when smoke drifts our way. Maybe it's the same with other drugs.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 10, 2012, 02:25:32 pm
Indeed. Millar all those years ago, now blackening the name of Wiggo. Oh, there's an idea...

Not what I meant, actually.

I'll rephrase:

"Millar done for doping when with Cofidis all those years ago, now someone else using Cofidis to blacken the name of Wiggo."
Quote
I am not a smoker but it is friends that are ex-smokers that seem to rant on more than I do about how selfish smokers are when smoke drifts our way. Maybe it's the same with other drugs.

Dunno,  but Millar has put most of his money into founding Slipstream aka Garmin-Slipstream/Barracuda/Sharp as a clean team.

But you're right about ex-smokers. Converts often make the best zealots.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 10, 2012, 02:39:00 pm
Froome is Lemond to Wiggins's Hinault... Except Wiggins isn't nearly as exciting a rider to watch as Hinault.

Somehow I can't imagine Wiggo having fisticuffs with angry farmers blocking the route.  Le Blaireau decked the nearest one with a right cross and rode past the rest.

And people think badgers are cuddly!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Karla on July 10, 2012, 03:09:29 pm
Watch the Wiggins - spectator interface on the right of the shot.  This is 2009 so he's wearing Garmin kit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-hJue9ltyA

Also, note my new profile pic!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 10, 2012, 03:15:05 pm
 ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Justin(e) on July 10, 2012, 03:58:46 pm
Dunno,  but Millar has put most of his money into founding Slipstream aka Garmin-Slipstream/Barracuda/Sharp as a clean team.
But you're right about ex-smokers. Converts often make the best zealots.

I think we should have life bans on all the cheaters, they are the ones who have despoiled cycling in the first place.  Get rid of the Bjarne Riis' and the David Millar's and start again with the Sky like teams.  I am still angry at these cheats.

If in fact cheating were rife, and if the majority of the people who got the top mark in the last twenty years had been revealed to have cheated at some point, then this would be a fair question, wouldn't it? In such a circumstance, an honest exam taker ought to be angry at the cheaters, and at the people running the corrupt exam system which allows the cheaters to profit from their cheating, not at the people who are legitimately asking questions about it.

EDIT: Spelling
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Justin(e) on July 10, 2012, 04:01:40 pm
Thanks jo. Just the sort of thing I was after.

People shamelessly pushing their way to the front reminds me of festivals where I’ve waited at the front for ages for the headline act…or even London Transport…thanks for the warning.

It really is an experience - one thing I remember was not knowing who won the sprint till the next day - despite accidentally being in the perfect position to watch the finish.

If you want to move around at all (rather than spend hours in the same position) take a little portable foldable ladder.  You can then be at the back of 4 rows of people and still see lots.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 10, 2012, 04:02:20 pm


I think we should have life bans on all the cheaters, they are the ones who have despoiled cycling in the first place.  Get rid of the Bjarne Reese's and the David Millar's and start again with the Sky like teams.  I am still angry at these cheats.

It must be nice to be so perfect you can never understand why anyone else should be forgiven if they are contrite. Have you really never done anything you've been ashamed of? And it's Bjarne Riis.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: David Martin on July 10, 2012, 04:13:04 pm

I think we should have life bans on all the cheaters, they are the ones who have despoiled cycling in the first place.  Get rid of the Bjarne Reese's and the David Millar's and start again with the Sky like teams.  I am still angry at these cheats.

Maybe we should have a lifetime ban on forum posting for those who misspell people's names... :)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Justin(e) on July 10, 2012, 04:16:54 pm
Quote
Has he always had a short fuse?
Well have you watched any of his other dozens of interviews? Or even listened to the rest of the press conference leading up to the twitter/drugs question?

No, which is why I asked the question; there was no side to it at all.  This internet is a dangerous place, isn't it?


From CN (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kelly-wiggins-is-mentally-fragile)
Quote
Sean Kelly has his doubts concerning Wiggins' psychological strengths.

Quote
"Bradley has always been fragile, a puncture or another upsetting incident can make him lose his head
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Wowbagger on July 10, 2012, 04:21:03 pm
If he has a known weakness then it's up to the coaches to do something about it. It's quite possible to put decent strategies in place for people who have short tempers and I'm certain, given how driven Wiggins appears to be, that this will have been dealt with. If it's likely to jeopardise the overall aim then you can rest assured that it will have been dealt with in training and preparation.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Justin(e) on July 10, 2012, 04:25:22 pm
Maybe we should have a lifetime ban on forum posting for those who misspell people's names... :)

I appreciate that this is humour, but extending your metaphor: if this were a spelling competition and I cheated then it would be appropriate.

If I maintained vociferously and vocally that all those with evidence against me were liars.  And if when found out this cast a pall over all those who competed diligently and honestly, then I would have to say that I wouldn't belong in that competition any more.

I guess it is a difference of opinion over 'venial' and 'mortal' sins.  Everyone deserves a second chance for venial sins if they show some repentance. 
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: hubner on July 10, 2012, 04:27:20 pm
If he has a known weakness then it's up to the coaches to do something about it. It's quite possible to put decent strategies in place for people who have short tempers and I'm certain, given how driven Wiggins appears to be, that this will have been dealt with. If it's likely to jeopardise the overall aim then you can rest assured that it will have been dealt with in training and preparation.

Beta blockers are apparently good for that sort of thing, is it banned though and can it be detected?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 10, 2012, 04:28:37 pm
If he has a known weakness then it's up to the coaches to do something about it. It's quite possible to put decent strategies in place for people who have short tempers and I'm certain, given how driven Wiggins appears to be, that this will have been dealt with. If it's likely to jeopardise the overall aim then you can rest assured that it will have been dealt with in training and preparation.

It's clearly something he's been working on though - he shipped his chain in the Tour of Romandie time trial but didn't let it affect him too badly there...

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 10, 2012, 04:35:34 pm
I guess it is a difference of opinion over 'venial' and 'mortal' sins.  Everyone deserves a second chance for venial sins if they show some repentance.

Millar hasn't just shown repentance, nor is his case just an example of the zeal of the ex-doper, he has provided his team with valuable practical insights as an ex-doper into how it happens and how riders can get away with it (don't forget he never tested positive), and how teams like Garmin can create the circumstances to help riders avoid the temptation to dope, and how to spot the signs if they are doping. People like Millar have a vital role to play in cleaning up the sport.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Wowbagger on July 10, 2012, 04:40:01 pm
If he has a known weakness then it's up to the coaches to do something about it. It's quite possible to put decent strategies in place for people who have short tempers and I'm certain, given how driven Wiggins appears to be, that this will have been dealt with. If it's likely to jeopardise the overall aim then you can rest assured that it will have been dealt with in training and preparation.

Beta blockers are apparently good for that sort of thing, is it banned though and can it be detected?

I'm talking about coaching and training. This is something I think I'm pretty good at, having trained lots of junior chess players to quite a high level. If you think, as I do, that the Will to Win doesn't really vary much one area of competition to another, and that "throwing a wobbler" is a sign of immaturity - a short-term set-back temporarily blocking the view of the long-term aim to the detriment of its achievement, it doesn't need to come out of a bottle.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Auntie Helen on July 10, 2012, 04:47:03 pm
Tony Martin is now out, I see, to enable his wrist to heal before the olympics.

It's not been a good tour for him, has it?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: matthew on July 10, 2012, 04:54:23 pm
Can we please have two threads?

Tour de France 2012 (enjoying the racing)
and
Tour de France 2012 (cynically whining about drugs)
 ::-)

It's a rest day, what else are we suposed to talk about?  ;)

I agree a seperate discussion would be sensible
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Gareth Rees on July 10, 2012, 05:07:25 pm
Wiggins has always been pretty sound on doping: in 2009 he conceded that public suspicion was reasonable ("I came from nowhere on the Tour and everyone knows where it's been with blood doping") and he made his blood passport figures public, which I think was brave.

He was magnificently outspoken in his 2008 autobiography:

Quote from: In Pursuit of Glory
"You bastard Landis", I thought. "You have completely ruined my own small achievement of getting around the [2006] Tour de France and being a small part of cycling history. You and guys like you are pissing on my sport and my dreams. Why do guys like you keep cheating? How many of you are out there, taking the piss and getting away with it? There is me trailing home 131st, and for all I know, I might be a top 50 rider if we all started on a level playing field. Sod you all. You are a bunch of cheating bastards and I hope one day they catch the lot of you and ban you all for life. You can keep doing it your way and I will keep doing it mine. You won't ever change me, you sods. Bollocks to you all. At least I can look myself in the mirror."

(RossBD, would you describe this as "cynical whining"?)

Now that he has the yellow jersey and his press conferences are reported worldwide, he has a chance to get his views on doping into the press and make a small difference. That's why I think it's a shame that he seems to be doing an Armstrong. But it's just one outburst and there will be plenty of opportunities for him to do better.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 10, 2012, 05:19:15 pm
That's why I think it's a shame that he seems to be doing an Armstrong.

The difference being that Armstrong appears to be a humourless bully. Wiggins says what he thinks. Any Yorkshire in his ancestry?

Quote
But it's just one outburst and there will be plenty of opportunities for him to do better.

Let's see: You struggle for two days running to just about keep the lid on Cuddles, who has a disconcertingly different way of doing things. Then you beat him hollow in a time trial because you're better at time trials (and always have been) and you've got your planning right. Then some cowardly arse on Twitter tells you you've been cheating.

I think I'd be a bit narked.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Gareth Rees on July 10, 2012, 05:33:55 pm
In that you're continuing the derailment of the thread into a discussion of which cyclists are taking drugs, yes I would.

No-one here is discussing which cyclists are taking drugs. We're discussing where Wiggins' (perfectly understandable) anger should best be directed: against dopers and the people who support them, or against the people who complain about doping?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: clarion on July 10, 2012, 05:45:09 pm
Tony Martin is now out, I see, to enable his wrist to heal before the olympics.

It's not been a good tour for him, has it?
That's sad.  Respect to him for continuing, but it's probably the best decision to step off now.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 10, 2012, 05:52:11 pm
How about a moratorium (sp?!?) starting at depart fictif on Wednesday? Then you'll all have had 10 days to talk about this ( and bring up books written in 2008).

Then maybe take it over to this 18 page thread. (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=44116.0)
or
http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=56373.msg1252713#msg1252713
or
[every pro Racing thread]

I understand you guys are upset by the drug-takers, but it ain't going to change during July 2012. So either sit back and enjoy the race, or shut the <Wiggo word> up. please desist from raising the sordid topic in this worthy and genteel arena.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 10, 2012, 06:50:12 pm
Bollocks to that. The answer to the question of which Tour riders are doping is 'most of them.' Given today's arrest of a Tour rider, doping questions are definitely part of the Tour de France 2012. Wishing the questions away is worse than useless.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 10, 2012, 07:02:27 pm
I understand you guys are upset by the drug-takers, but it ain't going to change during July 2012. So either sit back and enjoy the race, or shut the <Wiggo word> up. please desist from raising the sordid topic in this worthy and genteel arena.
ooh, what happens if you combine a Wiggo word and a boab word in the same sentence? I think we'll need a new phrase for that one!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 10, 2012, 07:03:00 pm
Wishing the questions away is worse than useless.
Almost as useless as you repeating them here!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 10, 2012, 07:07:42 pm
Nope. There are people on the forum who think the sport is mostly clean and therefore encouraging the status to stay quo. The bigger the groundswell for change, the more likely that something useful (rather than cosmetic) gets done.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 10, 2012, 07:09:03 pm
You think this forum will change anything? Wow.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 10, 2012, 07:15:42 pm
The forum has collectively carried out several 'little bits of good' in the past. Why not again?

Pro sport survives because people pay to watch and buy their sponsors' products. Enough people say not interested because of doping, the money goes elsewhere and the sport changes or dies. Are you going to support doping?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 10, 2012, 07:18:05 pm
The forum has collectively carried out several 'little bits of good' in the past. Why not again?

Pro sport survives because people pay to watch and buy their sponsors' products. Enough people say not interested because of doping, the money goes elsewhere and the sport changes or dies. Are you going to support doping?
OK good - I admire your principles (really).

So boycott it - start a protest thread, don't discuss it, don't watch it, and write to the UCI, ITV4 and SKY to tell them why.

Posting on this thread just makes you look grumpy.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 10, 2012, 07:30:12 pm
Probably because I am grumpy...
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 10, 2012, 07:33:01 pm
What would be the point of a complaint or protest if it were tucked away where people could ignore it?

Anyway, it's impossible to discuss the Tour without doping coming into it somewhere. First Wiggo's rant, now Di Gregorio's arrest. These are newsworthy events directly related to the Tour so belong in this thread. There will be more stories relating to doping before this Tour is done - sounds like the net may be closing on Astana...

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 10, 2012, 07:47:19 pm
Anyway, it's impossible to discuss the Tour without doping coming into it somewhere. First Wiggo's rant, now Di Gregorio's arrest. These are newsworthy events directly related to the Tour so belong in this thread. There will be more stories relating to doping before this Tour is done
Oh sure, but it seems some people can't discuss Wiggo swearing without discussing the likelihood that the whole race is a shame due to cheating, and digging up events from 2007 (and earlier).

Although I know it won't happen, I'd rather we really did have a "TdeF2012 Drugs" thread!

gimme a minute ...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rogerzilla on July 10, 2012, 07:48:44 pm
How fast would Wiggers be if he shaved those ridiculous sideburns?

He should have it in the bag provided he doesn't fall off or get sick.  I think he's benefiting from one of those slack periods in between dominant champions (as when Delgado, Riis, Ullrich et al managed to get one in) and he's too old to get many more - 29 is about the peak age for the TdF - but chapeau all the same.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimO on July 10, 2012, 07:49:55 pm
Bollocks to that. The answer to the question of which Tour riders are doping is 'most of them.' ...

But that's not a useful or appropriate purpose for this thread, which is really to discuss the current tour.  Whilst news pertaining to doping in this tour is appropriate, long and protracted discussions about the likelihood of someone using drugs, or whether they did in a certain tour is probably best undertaken in it's own thread.  A short discussion may be OK, but once the thread becomes almost entirely related to doping, it's gone significantly OT, and should probably be split.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rogerzilla on July 10, 2012, 07:51:50 pm
It's too hard to split now, so can you start a new thread for Teh Drugs, plz?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Tewdric on July 10, 2012, 08:40:39 pm
How fast would Wiggers be if he shaved those ridiculous sideburns?

They have been cut and shaped to a carefully calculated Reynolds number and serve to diffuse the airflow around the face/helmet interface.  It's SKIENCE you see.

Incidentally, has anyone else heard that Wiggo is so good that he's managed to put another 30 secs into Evans on the rest day?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: red marley on July 10, 2012, 08:56:33 pm
I really like his sideees, which I assume he modelled on those sported by our very own SimonP. Certainly better than Wiggo's 'modfather' haircut of a few years ago.

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: simonp on July 10, 2012, 09:01:27 pm
I really like his sideees, which I assume he modelled on those sported by our very own SimonP. Certainly better than Wiggo's 'modfather' haircut of a few years ago.

Yeah! The guy OTP who accused me of being a Bradley Wiggins Lookalike has it all back to front.

Certainly not universally liked:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/tour-de-france/9385389/Tour-de-France-2012-live.html

Quote
"Bradley Wiggins' sideburns will never be back in fashion", reckons Sandra T. Ingrassia.

"Besides, they look like they have the mange, with the top being thinned out by his helmet straps and/or his sunglasses. Really, he should just shave those awful things!"

I got the mange look down to a T, I think.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rogerzilla on July 10, 2012, 09:08:35 pm
It's 'cos he's a mod*; imagine those sideburns and that lugubrious expression in a fishtail parka and it all fits.


*true
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: simonb on July 10, 2012, 09:12:19 pm
I like Brad precisely because he has mangey sideburns.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Pip on July 10, 2012, 09:30:23 pm
Tomorrow's stage is the hors d'ouevres for Thursday's main course. We can expect plenty of action in the last 20kms as riders attack on the descent from the Col de Richemond. I am watching every televised millimetre of this race, (except when the helicopter sends me to sleep).

I thought that Sunday's stage was compelling right from the start with the peloton forced to race hard all day over an extremely lumpy course.

It's been a long time since never that a couple of Brits (apologies Damon) have stamped their mark so forcefully on this race, so let the attacks begin and may the Brad and The Froome confront, hold firm and repel the onslaught.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: simonb on July 10, 2012, 10:09:00 pm
may the Brad and The Froome confront, hold firm and repel the onslaught.

Hear hear!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimO on July 10, 2012, 11:40:21 pm
Yes, tomorrow with the Col du Grand Colombier should be a bit of a git, but whilst it looks like the stage finish is uphill, it's not much compared to the three other main climbs of the day (Cat 2, Cat 3, and the Hors catégorie Col du Grand Colombier).  Presumably things could favour anyone who fancies descending suicidally enough down the other side of the Col de Richemond, assuming they've gotten to the top early enough to have a reasonably clear road ahead.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Jakob on July 11, 2012, 01:47:35 am
FWIW, I think this comment is spot on:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/10-conclusions-from-the-tour-de-france

Quote
The unfounded murmurs online – and in the press room too – have clearly rattled him. But compare his statements with Armstrong's during his seven year reign. The American was measured, composed, rehearsed but lacking a level legitimacy, and while Wiggins still has more to do in this year’s Tour to clear up his stance on doping, at least he spoke from the heart. There’s no doubt he has worked hard, perhaps harder than all of his rivals, but the next time he’s offered the doping topic lets hope he has the maturity and quite frankly the respect for the yellow jersey to deliver something with a little more substance.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Somnolent on July 11, 2012, 09:14:27 am
I disagree .... you want him to start saying "I've never tested positive" - in a "measured, composed, rehearsed" fashion?

No, sorry, been there... and I believed in LA for a long while too.

Sky seem to have re-written the rulebook on training and come to the Tour, not just with an improved BW, but with a squad who are able to protect him.  That seems to have taken so much sacrifice, apart from the stresses of the Tour itself, and all that goes with wearing Yellow, that I'm not at all surprised he "goes off on one" when someone asks an unanswerable and frankly silly question about doping.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Notsototalnewbie on July 11, 2012, 10:33:34 am
Thanks jo. Just the sort of thing I was after.

People shamelessly pushing their way to the front reminds me of festivals where I’ve waited at the front for ages for the headline act…or even London Transport…thanks for the warning.

It really is an experience - one thing I remember was not knowing who won the sprint till the next day - despite accidentally being in the perfect position to watch the finish.

If you want to move around at all (rather than spend hours in the same position) take a little portable foldable ladder.  You can then be at the back of 4 rows of people and still see lots.

Thanks Justin(e). It's occasions like this that I'm grateful we're both on the tall side!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: alexb on July 11, 2012, 10:45:21 am
It looks like the crash on Stage 6 was caused by Vigano putting a set of shoe covers into his pocket. Who the hell passes over things from one rider to another at 70kph deep into a bunch? Why not just throw them into the crowd?

"Lampre's Danilo Hondo accounted for what brought Vigano and Scarponi down. "Viganò was putting [Alessandro] Petacchi's shoe covers in his jersey, when some riders ahead slowed down. Davide had only one hand on the handlebar, so he could not brake properly and he fell in the ditch on the side of the road, then all the rest of the group crashed, Scarponi too."

Source:http://www.cyclingnews.com/editions/first-edition-cycling-news-saturday-july-7-2012

Looks like Poels might lose a kidney as a result of the crash: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12339/Poels-in-danger-of-losing-a-kidney-as-a-result-of-Tour-de-France-crash.aspx
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 11, 2012, 10:46:09 am
FWIW, I think this comment is spot on:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/10-conclusions-from-the-tour-de-france

Quote
The unfounded murmurs online – and in the press room too – have clearly rattled him. But compare his statements with Armstrong's during his seven year reign. The American was measured, composed, rehearsed but lacking a level legitimacy, and while Wiggins still has more to do in this year’s Tour to clear up his stance on doping, at least he spoke from the heart. There’s no doubt he has worked hard, perhaps harder than all of his rivals, but the next time he’s offered the doping topic lets hope he has the maturity and quite frankly the respect for the yellow jersey to deliver something with a little more substance.

I disagree.

I thought he actually showed tremendous respect for the Yellow Jersey with those comments.

There have been too many previous wearers showing "respect and maturity" in interviews whilst doping to the eyeballs as soon as they leave the press office.

Brad is a character and sport needs characters.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 11, 2012, 10:50:02 am
FWIW, I think this comment is spot on:

Quote
lets hope he has the maturity and quite frankly the respect for the yellow jersey to deliver something with a little more substance.

I thought we all wanted riders with a little less in the way of "substance"...

Anyway, lest we forget, Millar was always vocally anti-doping before he was caught doping. Talk is cheap.

Wiggins spoke from the heart. Probably 'roid rage.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Jaded on July 11, 2012, 11:08:32 am
Can we hace a separate thread for sideburns please, and keep this thread real.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Somnolent on July 11, 2012, 11:17:15 am
Can we hace a separate thread for sideburns please, and keep this thread real.

You saying his sideburns are not real ?
Who on earth would want fake stick on ones like that ?

IGMC
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 11, 2012, 11:17:59 am
I'm happy to defend Wiggo ad nauseum, but we do seem to have covered all the main angles:

- At the end of one press conference, he swore a bit. It's definitely not big or clever, but some people admired his frankness.
- If he doesn't take drugs, you can understand he's upset. If he does, well then he's a cheating git; but we don't know at the moment, and there's a good discussion here (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=61236.0).

Have I missed anything?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Pingu on July 11, 2012, 11:20:33 am
Can we hace a separate thread for sideburns please, and keep this thread real.

You saying his sideburns are not real ?
Who on earth would want fake stick on ones like that ?

IGMC

They're made from shark skin. They've been tested in the McLaren F1 wind tunnel & have been found to give a 0.5% aerodynamic advantage over shaved skin.

Trufax.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 11, 2012, 11:21:57 am
I'm pretty sure Jens was the first rider to be made of shark skin. SKY just nick all the best ideas.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 11, 2012, 11:33:07 am
I'm pretty sure Jens was the first rider to be made of shark skin. SKY just nick all the best ideas.

Complete and utter bollox. The whole world knows that Jens is made from the same stuff that Wolverine is made of. Marvel just nicked the idea from Jens.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 11, 2012, 11:38:11 am
Can we hace a separate thread for sideburns please, and keep this thread real.
You are Eminem?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 11, 2012, 02:06:06 pm
Can we hace a separate thread for sideburns please, and keep this thread real.

You saying his sideburns are not real ?
Who on earth would want fake stick on ones like that ?

IGMC

Talking of sideburns, a naughty friend of mine has tampered with a photo of me-

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/mattlangridge/whiskers.jpg)

I think I look more like Jethro than Wiggo......
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: David Martin on July 11, 2012, 04:27:38 pm
That was some finish - my legs hurt just watching it..
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: twiddler on July 11, 2012, 04:36:34 pm
Poor old Tommy V, see him limping about on the stage with a locked knee, poor bugger was still grinning his head off.
Amazing finish.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 11, 2012, 04:47:06 pm
There was a Quite Interesting moment when Nibali was caught by Groupe Maillot Jaune. It looked like he got a loving pat on the butt from a Cofidis rider, presumably "12th TAARAMAE Rein   + 05' 56''"

So perhaps alliances have already formed.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: David Martin on July 11, 2012, 05:13:15 pm
It will be quite a scrap. Tomorrow will be some stage, especially the last climb. Look for an early break with some BMC/Liquigas riders in who might be able to help in the final, but otherwise it will be them trying to distance Porte/Rogers/BH from Froome/Wiggo before the last climb.
It will be a train wreck.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Bledlow on July 11, 2012, 05:23:08 pm
http://www.lequipe.fr/qdj/2642

La question du jour (Mardi 10 juillet )
Bradley Wiggins va-t-il gagner le Tour de France ?

    
Code: [Select]
Voter
OUI   56%
Oui
NON  37%
Non
NSP   7%
NSP

4 706 votes

Aujourd'hui
Voter
OUI   55%
NON   39%   
NSP   6%
21 666 votes

A lot more votes, but not much change in proportions.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Hillbilly on July 11, 2012, 05:23:50 pm
Tomorrow is tough, and there is another similar day in the Pyrenees.  All it takes is one bad day in the mountain to scupper a GC challenge - I've got vague recollections of it happening to Jan Ullrich a couple of times.

Lots of mileage left in this edition, if you'll excuse the pun.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: cuddy duck on July 11, 2012, 07:51:53 pm
Are you Hillbilly of fixie skid fame?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 11, 2012, 09:52:34 pm
I see that Wiggin's own goal from the other day remains on the agenda.

And if what Nibali is saying about his actions on the finish line are true, then that's a poor show.

If he wins I'll certainly be thinking twice about voting for him in SPOTY.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Hillbilly on July 11, 2012, 10:39:19 pm
Are you Hillbilly of fixie skid fame?

There's only one type of skid I'm likely to do riding fixed, and it's one that would give infamy rather than fame if done in public.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Somnolent on July 11, 2012, 10:45:22 pm
I notice Bradley says he respects Cadel Evans....
He might show Nibali a bit more respect if Nibali didn't mouth off to the press about being "un-impressed"

Sorry Vincenzo .... but you need to grow up and let your performances do the talking for a bit. 
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Hillbilly on July 11, 2012, 10:48:33 pm
My thoughts as well.

Actions speak louder etc.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 11, 2012, 10:51:37 pm
I see that Wiggin's own goal from the other day remains on the agenda.

And if what Nibali is saying about his actions on the finish line are true, then that's a poor show.

If he wins I'll certainly be thinking twice about voting for him in SPOTY.

1. Some of us don't think it was an own goal. He was just telling uninformed anonymous rumour-mongers to F off and let him get on with his job. And so they should.

2. Wot PpPete said about Nibali.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Feline on July 11, 2012, 11:30:57 pm
Nibali seems to have consumed a punnet of sour grapes  ;D
Based on interview performance alone I:
1. don't like Nibali
2. really like Wiggins

I have a funny feeling that Bradley doesn't give a flying crap what the people who are unimpressed with his comments and/or language think. That's one of the reasons I like him so much.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: simonp on July 12, 2012, 12:03:31 am
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-im-not-some-s-t-rider-who-has-come-from-nowhere
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Andrew Br on July 12, 2012, 12:29:25 am
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-im-not-some-s-t-rider-who-has-come-from-nowhere

Entertaining though the outburst was, perhaps this ^ should have been Wiggins' original response ?
Or does it now have more impact after his rant ?

Moving on, does the fact that several of the Sky team will be competing in the Olympics make it (even ?) less likely that they'll be doping since there will, presumably, be more testing carried out there ?

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 12, 2012, 07:09:39 am
As I said upthread, a poor show.

http://www.steephill.tv/2012/tour-de-france/photos/stage-10/#355-IMG_2739_edited-1.jpg

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 12, 2012, 08:13:08 am
Poor show? Crossing the finish line and taking a look back to see who is still with the group?

Or am I missing something in that photo?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Riggers on July 12, 2012, 08:22:50 am
Hhhhmmmm, yes odd caption placed on that picture of Cadders and Wiggers crossing the line (steephill link). Wiggers is looking back to check on the rest of the Sky riders' positions.

Maybe whoever captioned the photos (and it might have been the photographer), has an agenda perhaps?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nuncio on July 12, 2012, 08:24:52 am
That's not how Nibali interpreted it.
Quote
When we crossed the line, Bradley turned and looked at me. If he wants to be a great champion, he needs to have a bit of respect for his adversaries. Sometimes turning around and looking into your face is an insult.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 12, 2012, 08:25:17 am
As I said upthread, a poor show.

http://www.steephill.tv/2012/tour-de-france/photos/stage-10/#355-IMG_2739_edited-1.jpg



Oh, do me a favour. Bradley 'looked at' Nibali? And that's a sign of disrespect? A sign of an over-inflated ego and an over-excited imagination. Nibali needs to get over himself. Tw@t.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 12, 2012, 08:28:18 am
That's not how Nibali interpreted it.
Quote
When we crossed the line, Bradley turned and looked at me. If he wants to be a great champion, he needs to have a bit of respect for his adversaries. Sometimes turning around and looking into your face is an insult.

And sometimes it isn't.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Riggers on July 12, 2012, 08:38:29 am
Anyhooo, today's race up and down dale is gonna be a hoot. Lots and lots of tired legs because its difficult to get dragged up hills!!! It's just difficult to get up any hill for me at the moment, but that's besides the point. There'll be no hiding in a large group.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TheLurker on July 12, 2012, 08:39:25 am
That's not how Nibali interpreted it.
Quote
When we crossed the line, Bradley turned and looked at me. If he wants to be a great champion, he needs to have a bit of respect for his adversaries. Sometimes turning around and looking into your face is an insult.

And sometimes it isn't.

I think the mindset here is the one that can produce that memorable Friday or Saturday night question, "Are you lookin' at me pal?"  To which I think our collective response should be, "Leave 'im he's not worf it."  :)

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 12, 2012, 08:51:54 am
That's not how Nibali interpreted it.
Quote
If he wants to be a great champion, he needs to have a bit of respect for his adversaries.

No, if he wants to be a great champion, he has to win a few races.

Oooh, look....
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Riggers on July 12, 2012, 09:29:09 am
… a tractor!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 12, 2012, 09:48:18 am
Those sideburns are pretty provocative. Clearly disrespectful of his competitors.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Mrs Pingu on July 12, 2012, 09:52:28 am
That's not how Nibali interpreted it.
Quote
When we crossed the line, Bradley turned and looked at me. If he wants to be a great champion, he needs to have a bit of respect for his adversaries. Sometimes turning around and looking into your face is an insult.

I dunno, it's all ME, ME, ME with some people
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Notsototalnewbie on July 12, 2012, 10:09:39 am
That's not how Nibali interpreted it.
Quote
When we crossed the line, Bradley turned and looked at me. If he wants to be a great champion, he needs to have a bit of respect for his adversaries. Sometimes turning around and looking into your face is an insult.

When I read that, I immediately thought of when my sister was three and I was five, and, in the absence of anything else she could get me into trouble for, she would plaintively wail ‘Muuu-uum! Laura’s looking at me!’
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rafletcher on July 12, 2012, 10:28:01 am
As I said upthread, a poor show.

http://www.steephill.tv/2012/tour-de-france/photos/stage-10/#355-IMG_2739_edited-1.jpg

And as others have said upthread, bollocks. Sportsmen don't have to be nice, and most are egocentric monomaniacs (if they're winners for sure). They need to win, and if screwing with their opponents head helps, they'll do it.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Pingu on July 12, 2012, 10:38:14 am
Yeah but, no but, yeah but, no but, that wiggo was givin' me the evils.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: clarion on July 12, 2012, 10:56:49 am
Yeah, I read in The Guardian that the 'disrespect' was a look, and I thought they must have got it wrong, so I looked online.  I couldn't find anything more conclusive than the photo linked to, and the consensus here seems to be sensible.

Come on, Nibali.  Even if Wiggins was looking at you (and I don't think he was), just Grow The Fuck Up, will you?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rhys W on July 12, 2012, 11:01:11 am
Nibali is coming across as more and more of a twat. The best he can do is gain half a minute on a descent which will invariably be clawed back by the "group of favourites" well before the finish line.

Bradley is in a strong position and he should give his adversaries "the look" more often imo. I crush them!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: eeymsmo on July 12, 2012, 11:01:45 am
Nibali trying to throw wiggo a bit? Wiggin's isn't chucking his bike into hedges anymore, but maybe Nibali think after c*ntgate that a bit of niggling might get him back to that frame of mind and start making mistakes?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: clarion on July 12, 2012, 11:03:07 am
That's my thought, but it's a very weak position.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: clarion on July 12, 2012, 11:04:05 am
btw, I half heard a mention on the radio suggesting Wiggins has now held the MJ for more consecutive days than any British rider before.  Is this true?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: PeteB99 on July 12, 2012, 11:06:49 am
btw, I half heard a mention on the radio suggesting Wiggins has now held the MJ for more consecutive days than any British rider before.  Is this true?

They said that on the ITV4 coverage yesterday.

Meanwhile breaking news is that Cancellara has withdrawn.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: eeymsmo on July 12, 2012, 11:08:50 am
Meanwhile breaking news is that Cancellara has withdrawn.

due to not withdrawing 9 months ago.........
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 12, 2012, 11:15:46 am
Meanwhile breaking news is that Cancellara has withdrawn.

due to not withdrawing 9 months ago.........

 ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: PeteB99 on July 12, 2012, 11:16:37 am
Meanwhile breaking news is that Cancellara has withdrawn.

due to not withdrawing 9 months ago.........

 ;D

Accidents do happen though. According to my dad I was one.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 12, 2012, 11:19:46 am
Don't know if Nibali changed his story but the first version of it I heard had Brad smirking and waving at him as he came past.

I get the feeling Nibali doesn't mind losing so much (he should be used to it by now, after all), he just doesn't want to lose to Brad - he'd rather lose to Froome, a rider he regards as having a bit more panache.

He's not doing himself any favours with his whining, but I do wonder if something is being lost in translation - not so much in this instance, but in the case of his comments about Brad before the Tour started.

I do kind of agree that it would be nice to see Brad forced to get involved in a bit of racing, especially as I think Brad would be able to rise to the challenge on current form, but it's up to Nibali et al to make that happen.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 12, 2012, 11:54:33 am
a rider he regards as having a bit more panache.

Or does he resent losing to a rider who twiddles along smoothly and calmly instead of honking up hills pulling faces and swinging about like a bag of spanners in the traditional pro-cyclist manner?

I suspect he'd've hated Indurain, too.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 12, 2012, 12:09:58 pm
I suspect he'd've hated Indurain, too.

Exactly. Much as we want to see a Brit win, we don't really want to see a repeat of the 1995 Tour, do we?

Blitzing the field with high-tempo group riding up mountains is hugely impressive, but it lacks the excitement of the mano a mano, suitcases of courage stuff we saw in stage 17 of last year's Vuelta.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Domestique on July 12, 2012, 12:12:45 pm
Was the Wiggins swear fest recorded anywhere?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 12, 2012, 12:17:28 pm
a rider he regards as having a bit more panache.

Or does he resent losing to a rider who twiddles along smoothly and calmly instead of honking up hills pulling faces and swinging about like a bag of spanners in the traditional pro-cyclist manner?

I suspect he'd've hated Indurain, too.

SWMBO watched the highlights and commented that she thought Nibali's climbing style was like Contadors....
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 12, 2012, 01:46:55 pm
That's not how Nibali interpreted it.
Quote
When we crossed the line, Bradley turned and looked at me. If he wants to be a great champion, he needs to have a bit of respect for his adversaries. Sometimes turning around and looking into your face is an insult.

I dunno, it's all ME, ME, ME with some people

That's what the doctor told me when I said I kept getting very tired during the day and felt generally lethargic.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 12, 2012, 02:48:25 pm
Was the Wiggins swear fest recorded anywhere?
Yup. ITV4 Highlights show led with it on the day (bleeped, obviously!). So it must exist 'out there' somewhere.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 12, 2012, 05:06:04 pm
Well, it looks like Wiggo and Nibbles are mates again after their little cuddle across the finish line...

Great stage  :)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Chris S on July 12, 2012, 05:08:45 pm
That was brill.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Wowbagger on July 12, 2012, 05:08:58 pm
Very good indeed. I think, bobb, that you have to be extremely careful: Wiggo's hair must be at least as cool as yours. It's the sideburns that make it. :P
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 12, 2012, 05:09:29 pm
Amazing stage. Froomy was on fire! Shame that Cuddles lost it a bit.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ewan Houzami on July 12, 2012, 05:12:04 pm
Beyond exciting!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: jogler on July 12, 2012, 05:12:46 pm
a rider he regards as having a bit more panache.

Or does he resent losing to a rider who twiddles along smoothly and calmly instead of honking up hills pulling faces and swinging about like a bag of spanners in the traditional pro-cyclist manner?

I suspect he'd've hated Indurain, too.

 that's a very well considered suspicion. :)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 12, 2012, 05:15:42 pm
Very good indeed. I think, bobb, that you have to be extremely careful: Wiggo's hair must be at least as col as yours. It's the sideburns that make it. :P

I shall not be making an attempt to grow sideburns!

Anyway, how come you're so interested in Le Tour all of a sudden?!!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Wowbagger on July 12, 2012, 05:22:31 pm
Very good indeed. I think, bobb, that you have to be extremely careful: Wiggo's hair must be at least as col as yours. It's the sideburns that make it. :P

I shall not be making an attempt to grow sideburns!

Anyway, how come you're so interested in Le Tour all of a sudden?!!

It's not sudden. Life gets in the way and prevents me watching an entire stage, and I was first attracted to it by the scenery. It's given me alpine ambitions.

However, you look at the way these guys take on the Alps and, having experienced North Hill on a few occasions, one has empathy.

I reckon it's time Cadel Evans took up audax.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Pip on July 12, 2012, 05:24:10 pm
Wow, Brad's on top of the pile, but there is still a long way to go.

It looked as if Chris Froome could have nicked the stage and put time into him though, if he had been allowed to.

Fantastic ride by Teejay who rode all over Cadel. he's another young rider for the future
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 12, 2012, 05:37:12 pm
Crumbs, that was brutal! Chapeau to the lot of them.  :o 8) :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Pip on July 12, 2012, 05:55:37 pm
BTW, does anyone know if Rolland gets double points for mountain top finish?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Domestique on July 12, 2012, 06:06:04 pm
Was the Wiggins swear fest recorded anywhere?
Yup. ITV4 Highlights show led with it on the day (bleeped, obviously!). So it must exist 'out there' somewhere.

Been looking for it, but no joy so far.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nelson Longflap on July 12, 2012, 06:17:14 pm
Was the Wiggins swear fest recorded anywhere?
@Domestique @mattc The Wiggins considered response is quoted in full near the start of an interesting article at http://www.sportsscientists.com/2012/07/tour-in-mountains-analysis-discussion.html (Not sure of my source for that link ... apologies if it was from somebody from this parish.)
Super tactical race today - really exciting!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Hillbilly on July 12, 2012, 06:44:15 pm
If I was Froome I'd be extremely frustrated having to carry another rider for the second time on a grand tour.  There is just the impression, like the Vuelta, that Sky is putting the brakes on him in order to deliver a win for a cyclist who is no stronger and probably less strong.

In some ways, the situation reminds me of Cunego in the year that he won the Giro (he was there to support someone else, but in that case simply asserted himself as the lead rider, despite the protestations of - from memory - Simeone).  Part of me wishes that Sky would give Froome the freedom to go for it, because at the moment it feels to me that we are going to end up with the weaker Sky rider being placed higher up the order.  That said, I suppose he is in an impossible position as Brad seems like a huffy chuffer who would throw his toys from the pram if dropped from number one slot.

Fingers crossed Froome gets to lead a team next season.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Snakehips on July 12, 2012, 06:51:26 pm
If I was Froome I'd be extremely frustrated having to carry another rider for the second time on a grand tour.  There is just the impression, like the Vuelta, that Sky is putting the brakes on him in order to deliver a win for a cyclist who is no stronger and probably less strong.
But which of us hasn't thought that they could do better than the next guy up the hierarchy at some time in our careers , whatever area we have laboured in.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: ran doner on July 12, 2012, 07:02:54 pm
And Nibali had the cheek to moan about the Wiggo stare. He couldn't have been more hypocritical if he tried today. And Wiggo had the grace to say well done to  him at the line. I would have just said FAIL.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 12, 2012, 07:18:38 pm
I suspect he'd've hated Indurain, too.

Exactly. Much as we want to see a Brit win, we don't really want to see a repeat of the 1995 Tour, do we?

Blitzing the field with high-tempo group riding up mountains is hugely impressive, but it lacks the excitement of the mano a mano, suitcases of courage stuff we saw in stage 17 of last year's Vuelta.

d.

Today's effort OK for you? I thought it was brilliant to watch.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 12, 2012, 07:20:58 pm
Amazing stage. Froomy was on fire! Shame that Cuddles lost it a bit.

Yes, I felt for him. Van Garderen should be up there one year, though.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 12, 2012, 07:29:59 pm
If I was Froome I'd be extremely frustrated having to carry another rider for the second time on a grand tour.  There is just the impression, like the Vuelta, that Sky is putting the brakes on him in order to deliver a win for a cyclist who is no stronger and probably less strong.

Well, it is a team, and riders are used according to their strengths and according to a game plan. Bigger picture sort of thing. Froome's job is to help out Wiggo on the pointy bits, at the moment, and he's not (quite) as good a time-triallist. But, yes, he could be a winner with the right team backing, although whether he could be a team leader is another matter.

I just hope if he jumps ship, he goes to another team that supports its riders as well as Sky (if there is one). He could end up getting big bucks in the short term to move to another team with cr@p management, strategy, training, care for the riders and (dare I say it) ethics, which could be the end of him one way or another.

If I were him I'd stick with the Sky set-up and take over when Wiggo starts to fade.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 12, 2012, 07:31:52 pm
And Nibali had the cheek to moan about the Wiggo stare. He couldn't have been more hypocritical if he tried today. And Wiggo had the grace to say well done to  him at the line. I would have just said FAIL.

"Eh, Wiggo, you don' show 'nuff respec'."

Who did he think he was, the Mafia?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: clarion on July 12, 2012, 08:10:31 pm
Froome is riding awfully well.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Canardly on July 12, 2012, 08:24:27 pm
Froome deserves a medal thinks. What is Cav up to?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: twiddler on July 12, 2012, 08:35:05 pm
If I was Froome I'd be extremely frustrated having to carry another rider for the second time on a grand tour.  There is just the impression, like the Vuelta, that Sky is putting the brakes on him in order to deliver a win for a cyclist who is no stronger and probably less strong.

Well, it is a team, and riders are used according to their strengths and according to a game plan. Bigger picture sort of thing. Froome's job is to help out Wiggo on the pointy bits, at the moment, and he's not (quite) as good a time-triallist. But, yes, he could be a winner with the right team backing, although whether he could be a team leader is another matter.

I just hope if he jumps ship, he goes to another team that supports its riders as well as Sky (if there is one). He could end up getting big bucks in the short term to move to another team with cr@p management, strategy, training, care for the riders and (dare I say it) ethics, which could be the end of him one way or another.

If I were him I'd stick with the Sky set-up and take over when Wiggo starts to fade.


+1 on the above.

Whilst Froome had shown himself to be an incredible prospect he is still relatively inexperienced, so although he may look like he could do a better job this may be in part supported by the fact that he doesn't have to carry the weight of the yellow jersey and associated expectations.

There is no reason why a talented individual who demonstrates commitment to his team should miss out on anything, he is young, and to borrow a cliche 'learning his trade' and appears to understand this.  I've heard many people criticise youngsters for not being willing to commit themselves to their apprenticeships, they want instant success and don't have the wisdom to see the benefit of a good foundation, so i think CF is doing a great job in this respect.

If i were him i'd be more likely wondering how it'll balance out when G comes back into the fold!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Veloman on July 12, 2012, 08:41:53 pm
Froome deserves a medal thinks. What is Cav up to?

Cav is not a mountain man and is doing what he always does, looking to Bernhard Eisel to nurse him over the mountains.  No shame in this at all as he is doing exactly what is expected, along with all the other sprinters, trying to survive until the flat stages return.

Great TDF thus far and Sky are riding just superb.  I thought tactics last year were pants when they all stopped for Wiggo and was screaming at G and BH to get up the road.  This year, the tactics are A1.  And of course they have put so much work and time into checking/riding the route along with probably the scientific approach of all the teams.  And it all started in Manchester!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: andyoxon on July 12, 2012, 09:00:09 pm
First hour long highlights I've managed to watch so far - good stuff.  Well done Froome & Wiggins.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nuncio on July 12, 2012, 09:04:16 pm
What is Cav up to?
153rd, from 157th yesterday.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 12, 2012, 09:11:17 pm
What is Cav up to?
153rd, from 157th yesterday.

He's also been being a good domestique until he gets to the pointy bits and trying as well as he can to set the tempo on the flat bits before the pointy bits in the mountain stages.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: twiddler on July 12, 2012, 10:09:48 pm
First hour long highlights I've managed to watch so far - good stuff.  Well done Froome & Wiggins.

If you're watching itv4's coverage you can save yourself 15 mins if you (can) wait until it comes on itvplayer (about 9pm ish i think), as all the adverts are cut out.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 12, 2012, 10:44:39 pm
First hour long highlights I've managed to watch so far - good stuff.  Well done Froome & Wiggins.

If you're watching itv4's coverage you can save yourself 15 mins if you (can) wait until it comes on itvplayer (about 9pm ish i think), as all the adverts are cut out.
It comes up at 9pm but the adverts are still in.

Great breakaway from Pierre Rolland today, and Pinot there again as well.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: peterc on July 12, 2012, 11:25:06 pm
It comes up at 9pm but the adverts are still in.

They are, but if you let the program run in a window or tab behind something else, (I would advise with the sound off) you can then forward wind over the ads.

Not to sure if this is the moral equivalent of file sharing, getting content without "paying" for it, but a question for another topic perhaps.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TheLurker on July 13, 2012, 06:56:59 am
If I was Froome I'd be extremely frustrated having to carry another rider for the second time on a grand tour. 
Yebbut, if you were planning for this 12 months or more ago and you had two very strong riders either of whom could win the TdF, but one of them had suffered from recurring outbreaks of a debilitating disease (bilharzia) at unpredictable intervals which one would you build your team around?

Fingers crossed Froome gets to lead a team next season.
Mebbe the Vuelta?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 13, 2012, 07:00:07 am
That's more like it.  Chapeau to both.

http://www.steephill.tv/2012/tour-de-france/photos/stage-11/#334-PIC295585741.jpg
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: David Martin on July 13, 2012, 08:15:47 am
Don't mistake acceleration for strength. Wiggo has never been one to adapt well to changes in pace. He doesn't have the explosiveness of Froome. However, he is the stronger rider and has a better track record (and 2 mins in hand).

Froome is a better climber, can adapt to changes in pace etc but whether he would do as well against nibbles etc is another thing. Sky are sitting very firmly in the tactic of training for essentially a team time trial up the mountains rather than attack after attack. Would Froome have the discipline of a wiggins in not responding but raising the pace a bit and reeling the attacks back in slowly? When I saw Cadel attack I wondered whether it was a mistake - when he couldn't hold TJ's pace I knew it was. The changes in pace put you into the red and recovery is not trivial.  It is different in the last few K as there is no need to recover - it is essentially a battle for the line then and that is the part where Wiggins will really suffer compared to the real climbers.

I'm pretty sure Froome will get the chance to lead for the Vuelta. Next year could be interesting as Froome will then be capable of leading a TdF team in his own right. What we don't know is how well he would inspire the rest of the team (and we have seen how key the Sky team ethos is). Anyway, for 0.5M Euro a year, you can't really afford to be frustrated at not being the team leader...

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: pcolbeck on July 13, 2012, 08:17:50 am
I am loving Wiggo's yellow trimmed bike that he has been using since he won the jersey.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 13, 2012, 08:21:06 am
I'm sure Froome will get his chance, either at Sky or somewhere else. Right now, he is not as good a GC contender as Bradley in this TdF. His tactical nous is unclear (at least to me), but his ability - especially in the hills - is unquestionable. He is, without doubt, one to watch for the future. Same with TeJay. I suspect Cuddles will need to have a word with him about how to protect your leader when he's struggling; he's a bit of a Tigger - lots of enthusiastic bouncing but not a lot of common!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 13, 2012, 08:34:14 am
That's more like it.  Chapeau to both.

http://www.steephill.tv/2012/tour-de-france/photos/stage-11/#334-PIC295585741.jpg
This link worked better for me
http://www.grassyknolltv.com/2012/tour-de-france/photos/stage-11/334-PIC295585741.jpg

My favourite moment of the race so far - very nice to see.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 13, 2012, 08:38:09 am
Right, thats it! I have come to the conclusion that I hate it when Brits are doing well in the Tour.

For years I have been watching the Tour via evening highlight shows and until this year I could easily sit down at 10:00 p.m. to play back my recording with absolutely no idea how the stage went.

This year, every time I listen to the radio on the way home from work or watch the TV news some git launches into a report of the stage and I find out the gist of what happened before I can hit the off button or launch myself from the room, hands over my ears shouting "La La LA La- I'm not listening!"

Bastards!

 ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: frankly frankie on July 13, 2012, 08:58:17 am
I suspect he'd've hated Indurain, too.

Indurain was pure climber before he bulked up.  He was Delgado's 'Froome' and wore the polkadot for a while in one of his early Tours.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nuncio on July 13, 2012, 09:28:18 am
This year, every time I listen to the radio on the way home from work or watch the TV news some git launches into a report of the stage and I find out the gist of what happened before I can hit the off button or launch myself from the room, hands over my ears shouting "La La LA La- I'm not listening!"

I managed to avoid the TT day’s news only for my wife to come in as I was watching the highlights and ask if I knew what was going to happen; she knew because she’d caught it on Newsround.  I figured that Newsround wasn’t going to have a piece about Fabian Cancellara or Tony Martin winning the stage, and settled down to BW’s foregone conclusion. 
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 13, 2012, 09:28:40 am
I hadn't heard anything about the stage (and I had it recording) so I watched the final 20km "live".  It was very exciting I have to say.

Because of all the "poker faces" you just don't know, until it happens, who is going to blow-up first. Of course when they do, like Cadel Evans, you realise just how fast the pace is as they drop off the back like they are standing still.  At one point I thought Froome had blown and Brad looked pained.  All very tense.

I think the relentless SKY "TT" approach to climbing the big hills will scare most climbers.  It seems SKY have got the perfect pace dialled in and, in Wiggins, a rider who knows how to ride at a planned pace.  The other contenders have got two choices, try to stay with the relentless steady pace (which means they won't have much left at the end for a sprint, small time gains) or try to attack early and risk total burn out.

Maybe the lack of drugs on the Tour has signalled the end of superhuman breaks on huge climbs.  Maybe Nibali's attempt was an example of what an un-juiced rider can achieve.  ie. a few small attacks before blowing up and then being reeled in.

Froome looks like the only real contender.  Growing up at 5500 ft in Kenya may be a form of legal EPO.  What odds on his winning in 2013?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: pcolbeck on July 13, 2012, 09:36:51 am
Well there were big breaks on climbs back in the 60s and before when non of the drugs actually worked (other than phonologically).
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 13, 2012, 10:10:53 am
Well there were big breaks on climbs back in the 60s and before when non of the drugs actually worked (other than phonologically).

Amphetamine can "pep you up", even in the 60s.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 13, 2012, 10:17:55 am
BTW, does anyone know if Rolland gets double points for mountain top finish?

Yup.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 13, 2012, 10:20:37 am
Today's effort OK for you? I thought it was brilliant to watch.

Hell yeah! That was fantastic.  ;D

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 13, 2012, 10:26:42 am
Btw, did anyone catch the Sky Wag War on Twitter last night? Mrs Wiggo tweeted praise for Rogers and Porte and their supreme loyalty, and Mrs Froome took it as a dig at her boy. And then Mrs Cav joined in... Hilarious.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/07/13/cracks-appearing-in-team-sky-via-warring-wags/

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 13, 2012, 10:31:24 am
Sky are sitting very firmly in the tactic of training for essentially a team time trial up the mountains rather than attack after attack.
Yeah. It's great to see Wiggins in yellow (and Froome second) but the most exciting part of the racing IMO is the breakaways which don't actually have any impact on GC. Dramatic inefficiency is more fun to watch and wins the stage but efficient steadiness wins the race.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: pcolbeck on July 13, 2012, 10:33:45 am
Well there were big breaks on climbs back in the 60s and before when non of the drugs actually worked (other than phonologically).

Amphetamine can "pep you up", even in the 60s.

It keeps you awake and makes you feel energized but it doesn't actually let you develop any more power. The most it can do is give you more will power to keep pushing.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 13, 2012, 11:03:36 am
Well there were big breaks on climbs back in the 60s and before when non of the drugs actually worked (other than phonologically).

Amphetamine can "pep you up", even in the 60s.

It keeps you awake and makes you feel energized but it doesn't actually let you develop any more power. The most it can do is give you more will power to keep pushing.

Where can I get some?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 13, 2012, 11:06:22 am
I see Cancellara has retired because his wife's about to give birth. Good for him I say, but is that all there is to it? After all, it's hardly unpredictable, so if he knew he was only going to ride the first ten or so stages, why start and take a place in the team away from someone who could ride the whole Tour?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 13, 2012, 11:11:19 am
It keeps you awake and makes you feel energized but it doesn't actually let you develop any more power. The most it can do is give you more will power to keep pushing.

A lot of what cycling at this level is about is having the willpower to keep pushing your body to perform when your muscles are begging you to stop. Artificial stimulants can help with that to the point where it becomes dangerous - Tom Simpson basically rode himself to death because he was so pepped up on speed and booze.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Karla on July 13, 2012, 11:13:35 am
I see Cancellara has retired because his wife's about to give birth. Good for him I say, but is that all there is to it? After all, it's hardly unpredictable, so if he knew he was only going to ride the first ten or so stages, why start and take a place in the team away from someone who could ride the whole Tour?

Given that he's got what is so far RadioTrek's only stage win, I doubt anyone is complaining.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 13, 2012, 11:14:26 am
I see Cancellara has retired because his wife's about to give birth. Good for him I say, but is that all there is to it? After all, it's hardly unpredictable, so if he knew he was only going to ride the first ten or so stages, why start and take a place in the team away from someone who could ride the whole Tour?

Winning the prologue and wearing the yellow jersey for the first few days would have been worth an awful lot to the team and its sponsors. Ten days of Cancellara > 21 days of Schleck.

Presumably the plan was to win the first individual TT as well, but Sky put the kibosh on that.

Edit: crossposted with Mr B.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 13, 2012, 11:15:48 am
True, that all makes sense. And I guess most - all? - teams lose one or two members over the course of three weeks due to injury, time limits, and whatever.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 13, 2012, 11:16:54 am
Also remember Cipollini who never went to the Tour with the intention of finishing it, only of winning as many stages as possible in the first week then retiring to the beach as soon as the race hit the first proper hill.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 13, 2012, 11:17:39 am
True, that all makes sense. And I guess most - all? - teams lose one or two members over the course of three weeks due to injury, time limits, and whatever.

Yes, except Liquigas, who I vaguely recall have some kind of record for finishing grand tours with the whole team intact.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 13, 2012, 11:19:09 am
Do they? That's impressive. And Nibali (however his name is pronounced!) is turning out to be at least as much of a challenger as Evans. So far at least (and more fun to watch IMO).
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 13, 2012, 11:24:19 am
Here you go:

Quote
in the past 12 Grand Tours (Giro, Tour and Vuelta) the team has always started and finished the race with all its men.
http://www.teamliquigascannondale.com/2012/eng/main.php?mod=palmares

Don't know if that's actually a record but it's certainly unusual.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 13, 2012, 11:26:40 am
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 13, 2012, 12:14:27 pm
Well there were big breaks on climbs back in the 60s and before when non of the drugs actually worked (other than phonologically).

Amphetamine can "pep you up", even in the 60s.


I can point you in the right direction but, that might be considered entrapment ;)
It keeps you awake and makes you feel energized but it doesn't actually let you develop any more power. The most it can do is give you more will power to keep pushing.

Where can I get some?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nuncio on July 13, 2012, 12:33:35 pm
That's an amazing stat about Liquigas.  All those potential crashes, illnesses, cut-off times, demotivated riders and badly-timed pregnancies avoided.

There are still 9 teams with their full complements.  Rabobank are down to their last 4, Lampre and Vacansoleil down to 5 each.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: road-runner on July 13, 2012, 12:34:24 pm
Go Sagan go! Will it work?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 13, 2012, 12:51:08 pm
I'm tempted to scoot up to Look Mum, No Hands for lunch. Anyone want to join me?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Domestique on July 13, 2012, 03:01:46 pm
Just now, 30km to go, the peleton going over a bridge with a massive tailback on the motorway below with people slowing down to catch a glimpse.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 13, 2012, 03:11:28 pm
I'm tempted to scoot up to Look Mum, No Hands for lunch.

Well, I did, and very nice it was too. Could happily have stayed there all afternoon...

Bit of a last minute whim but I may well do the same again next Friday if anyone's interested in joining me for a bit of Tour watching over a beer.

d.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: ran doner on July 13, 2012, 03:32:00 pm
I notice 2 things about the speed of the stage yesterday.

Rolland would have had to wait for the finish control to open at the top of La Toussuire and in the Etape du Tour the fastest finisher missed the TdF time limit by 15 minutes.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: hatler on July 13, 2012, 03:35:15 pm
I'm a complete ingénue on this sort of stuff, so please forgive me for anything I say which is stating the bleeding obvious or has already been posted.

It looks to me like Sky have got the numbers for everything; how much power each of their riders can put out, and for how long. Combine that with the knowledge of the gradient on each climb and the power output required to get up it, and they can plan precisely who goes on the front and for how far and at what pace such that the desired number of riders reach the finish line as fast as possible having expended their last calorie of available energy (whilst leaving some in the tank for tomorrow).

Knowing all that they ride the race at their pre-determined pace secure in the knowledge that anyone who attacks will be reeled in having burnt too much energy to recover fully.  As long as everyone in the team toes the party line, they get a result. Until, of course, the unexpected happens ...

Very very methodical. Very Brailsford.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 13, 2012, 03:50:50 pm
Very shrewd riding from Millar. Nice one  :)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 13, 2012, 03:51:48 pm
British D***s-c***t wins!

Exciting finish, great stuff.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Tewdric on July 13, 2012, 03:55:06 pm
Blimey!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 13, 2012, 04:09:59 pm
Excellent! I'm really pleased for him.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 13, 2012, 04:11:38 pm
Four British stage winners on a single Tour. British World Champion. British yellow jersey. Unbelievable.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ewan Houzami on July 13, 2012, 04:34:04 pm
Good times!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 13, 2012, 04:36:23 pm
Very shrewd riding from Millar. Nice one  :)

Damn straight.  8)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: aregister on July 13, 2012, 04:36:50 pm
I'm tempted to scoot up to Look Mum, No Hands for lunch. Anyone want to join me?
Wish I'd seen this earlier. I work just down the road (around the corner from Condor).
Next time!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: jogler on July 13, 2012, 04:38:15 pm
Four British stage winners on a single Tour. British World Champion. British yellow jersey. Unbelievable.

d.

& as ever there's nary a shout in the British press ::-)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Si on July 13, 2012, 04:46:20 pm
Four British stage winners on a single Tour. British World Champion. British yellow jersey. Unbelievable.

d.

& as ever there's nary a shout in the British press ::-)

Having been staying at me mum's for a couple of days I found myself forced to glance at the Daily Wail.  They actually had quite a bit of coverage, and most of it positive.  Of course their reporter made a few gaffs as one might expect from someone who doesn't understand the sport that well, but I'm sure that I'd have done the same if trying to comment on premiership footie.

Likewise, I've read a few copies of 'i' this week and they've had more than usual too.

So not too bad, even if there isn't much on prime time TV news compared to say, the coverage of England putting in a mediocre performance at the euro footie.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: jogler on July 13, 2012, 04:56:02 pm
or the coverage devoted to the premeirship footballer notaracist ex-England captain whos shags his team mate's partner,parks in a Disabled parking bay role model.
A QC to defend in a magistrates court FFS ::-)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 13, 2012, 04:57:52 pm
BBC 5 Live have been giving it decent coverage in their breakfast show - talking about it enthusiastically, if not exactly knowledgeably. But it's been a pleasant surprise to wake up to people on mainstream radio discussing something I'm actually interested in. And I have a feeling the level of press coverage will increase over the next week or so too.

On the subject of newspapers, does anyone know where in London I can buy L'Equipe? I really wanted to get the issue the other day with the front page pic of Wiggo drinking from his Union Jack mug of tea. The issue for Monday 23 July is going to be a bit of a collectors' item.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mzjo on July 13, 2012, 04:58:30 pm
Don't mistake acceleration for strength. Wiggo has never been one to adapt well to changes in pace. He doesn't have the explosiveness of Froome. However, he is the stronger rider and has a better track record (and 2 mins in hand).

Froome is a better climber, can adapt to changes in pace etc but whether he would do as well against nibbles etc is another thing. Sky are sitting very firmly in the tactic of training for essentially a team time trial up the mountains rather than attack after attack. Would Froome have the discipline of a wiggins in not responding but raising the pace a bit and reeling the attacks back in slowly? When I saw Cadel attack I wondered whether it was a mistake - when he couldn't hold TJ's pace I knew it was. The changes in pace put you into the red and recovery is not trivial.  It is different in the last few K as there is no need to recover - it is essentially a battle for the line then and that is the part where Wiggins will really suffer compared to the real climbers.

I'm pretty sure Froome will get the chance to lead for the Vuelta. Next year could be interesting as Froome will then be capable of leading a TdF team in his own right. What we don't know is how well he would inspire the rest of the team (and we have seen how key the Sky team ethos is). Anyway, for 0.5M Euro a year, you can't really afford to be frustrated at not being the team leader...

I am reminded of a Poulidor observation on Anquetil, that Anquetil frequently didn't bother to follow the attacks in the last 800m of a climb (particularly a finish) because he knew that by riding tempo to the end he would not lose much time in 800m and would take back all he lost just in finishing fresher.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 13, 2012, 05:09:56 pm
In a similar vein, though it may be apocryphal, Jacques Anquetil once won a race by twelve seconds, and said, "It was eleven more than necessary."

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rogerzilla on July 13, 2012, 05:27:09 pm
Four British stage winners on a single Tour. British World Champion. British yellow jersey. Unbelievable.

d.
I suppose it all goes back to Manchester velodrome and Dave Brailsford.  They should upgrade his CBE to a knighthood, really - he's done more for competitive cycling in the UK than anyone else, ever.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: PatC on July 13, 2012, 05:31:24 pm
Four British stage winners on a single Tour. British World Champion. British yellow jersey. Unbelievable.

d.

& as ever there's nary a shout in the British press ::-)

A lot of coverage in The Times and Wiggins made the back page of The Guardian.

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 13, 2012, 05:39:29 pm
Definitely time to start the #KnighthoodForBrailsford campaign.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 13, 2012, 06:15:03 pm
A couple of relevant Hutch tweets (he must be reading this thread):

"Just been booked for BBC Breakfast tomorrow. Shows what an extraordinary Tour it's been: everyone else must have been busy."

and on attacks/tempo/etc :

"Nibali has jump, but doesn't seem to have pace. Jump wins you a stage, maybe, but pace wins a Tour"
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: clarion on July 13, 2012, 06:20:58 pm
Four British stage winners on a single Tour. British World Champion. British yellow jersey. Unbelievable.

d.
I suppose it all goes back to Manchester velodrome and Dave Brailsford.  They should upgrade his CBE to a knighthood, really - he's done more for competitive cycling in the UK than anyone else, ever.

The Commonwealth Games Legacy.  Let's see the Olympics top that.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: twiddler on July 13, 2012, 07:49:08 pm
Four British stage winners on a single Tour. British World Champion. British yellow jersey. Unbelievable.

d.
I suppose it all goes back to Manchester velodrome and Dave Brailsford.  They should upgrade his CBE to a knighthood, really - he's done more for competitive cycling in the UK than anyone else, ever.

Good idea, i was thinking of starting a Brailsford for SPOTY campaign, (although SPOTD would, perhaps, be more accurate).
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Veloman on July 13, 2012, 07:54:09 pm
Four British stage winners on a single Tour. British World Champion. British yellow jersey. Unbelievable.

d.

& as ever there's nary a shout in the British press ::-)

Try buying a decent paper where there is loads of coverage!

I think saying there is "nary a shout in the British press" is way off.  Must admit I don't read the dross papers so can't comment on those, but the decent ones are good and if you short on cash then buy the i for only 20p and enjoy the reporting.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Notsototalnewbie on July 13, 2012, 08:14:18 pm
The issue for Monday 23 July is going to be a bit of a collectors' item.

d.

If I can manage to get hold of one in Paris, I'll bring it back for you.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 13, 2012, 08:15:56 pm
The issue for Monday 23 July is going to be a bit of a collectors' item.

d.

If I can manage to get hold of one in Paris, I'll bring it back for you.

*Cough* ebay
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: simonp on July 13, 2012, 09:25:18 pm
Four British stage winners on a single Tour. British World Champion. British yellow jersey. Unbelievable.

d.
I suppose it all goes back to Manchester velodrome and Dave Brailsford.  They should upgrade his CBE to a knighthood, really - he's done more for competitive cycling in the UK than anyone else, ever.

Couldn’t agree more.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 13, 2012, 09:36:29 pm
Four British stage winners on a single Tour. British World Champion. British yellow jersey. Unbelievable.

d.
I suppose it all goes back to Manchester velodrome and Dave Brailsford.  They should upgrade his CBE to a knighthood, really - he's done more for competitive cycling in the UK than anyone else, ever.

The Commonwealth Games Legacy.  Let's see the Olympics top that.

There's every chance they might. And Dave Brailsford's the man to thank.

Slightly moving on, I have to say I thought that choosing Millar for the Olympic road race was perhaps one of his (Ok, BC's?) less great decisions - but today shows how much I don't know, and how much he does.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Giropaul on July 13, 2012, 09:57:11 pm
Dave Brailsford has certainly been fantastic; but don't underestimate Shane Sutton's contribution. Talking to several riders and coaches his is the name that comes up as the one who really makes the difference to the riders.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 13, 2012, 10:59:24 pm
Bastille Day stage tomorrow, so should be several French breakaways to liven it up.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 14, 2012, 06:16:00 am
Definitely time to start the #KnighthoodForBrailsford campaign.

+1  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 14, 2012, 11:01:00 am
I agree.

(though I do think there might be some penalty for his team's clothing, which is awful, in what has otherwise been the most colourful TdeF I can remember!)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 14, 2012, 11:01:36 am
Four British stage winners on a single Tour. British World Champion. British yellow jersey. Unbelievable.

d.

& as ever there's nary a shout in the British press ::-)

The Grauniad, Independent and Torygraph coverage is good. Haven't seen The Times coz it belongs to Rupert, or any tabloids.

OTOH there's bugger-all (well, 100 words a day hidden at the bottom of an LH page five from the back) in the London Evening Standard, despite Wiggo sometimes being described as a Londoner and having cut his track teeth at Herne Hill.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rogerzilla on July 14, 2012, 11:02:50 am
It's not the worst example of switching I've ever seen (go and watch an average 3rds-and-juniors road race for the full going-home-in-a-meat-wagon experience).  I think it was obstruction rather than endangerment.

On the subject of kit, the one with the brown shorts and blue-and-white top is just  :sick:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 14, 2012, 11:03:58 am
BBC 5 Live have been giving it decent coverage in their breakfast show - talking about it enthusiastically, if not exactly knowledgeably. But it's been a pleasant surprise to wake up to people on mainstream radio discussing something I'm actually interested in. And I have a feeling the level of press coverage will increase over the next week or so too.

On the subject of newspapers, does anyone know where in London I can buy L'Equipe? I really wanted to get the issue the other day with the front page pic of Wiggo drinking from his Union Jack mug of tea. The issue for Monday 23 July is going to be a bit of a collectors' item.

d.

They usually have it at Clapham Junction; otherwise in the paper shop in Long Acre near Leicester Sq tube; or try St Pancras Station..
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 14, 2012, 11:15:45 am
It's not the worst example of switching I've ever seen (go and watch an average 3rds-and-juniors road race for the full going-home-in-a-meat-wagon experience).  I think it was obstruction rather than endangerment.

On the subject of kit, the one with the brown shorts and blue-and-white top is just  :sick:

Yes, Roger, I had obviously made an effort to blank that out!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 14, 2012, 11:21:49 am
It's not the worst example of switching I've ever seen (go and watch an average 3rds-and-juniors road race for the full going-home-in-a-meat-wagon experience).  I think it was obstruction rather than endangerment.

On the subject of kit, the one with the brown shorts and blue-and-white top is just  :sick:

Yes, Roger, I had obviously made an effort to blank that out!

I've always thought the UCI should have a rule that all riders' shorts should be black, apart from the logos. And as for the orange Euskaltel bum-patch... Wouldn't just a Basque flag look better?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Redlight on July 14, 2012, 11:31:18 am
Funniest dimwit media comment I've heard so far was the BBC yesterday commenting that Wiggins was still in the lead but had Chris Froome "snapping at his heels"

(It's almost up there with the BBC TdF competition in which the question was "what colour jersey does each day's stage winner get to wear the next day?"  And the winning answer was, of course, Yellow.)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rogerzilla on July 14, 2012, 12:27:58 pm
http://www.cycling-wear.com/2011-ag2r-mondiale-kuota-short-sleeve-cycling-jersey-and-cycling-short-kit.html

The only advantage I can see is that the shorts won't show any embarrassing stains if you have a near-death experience on a mountain descent.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 14, 2012, 12:56:34 pm
If I can manage to get hold of one in Paris, I'll bring it back for you.

That would be truly wonderful of you! (Buy an armful - as mattc hints, you could probably sell them on at a huge profit.)

d.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 14, 2012, 12:58:00 pm
(http://i.pravda.sk/12/072/skcl/P50447bc4_sagan_protest.jpg)

Swapping their finishing positions seemed like sensible justice but the 30 point penalty for Goss seems excessive to me. What do you think?

Definitely too harsh - I have Goss in my fantasy team.

d.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 14, 2012, 01:00:46 pm
They usually have it at Clapham Junction; otherwise in the paper shop in Long Acre near Leicester Sq tube; or try St Pancras Station..

Ooh, the Long Acre one is a good shout - not far from work. St Pancras definitely worth a look too.

I think the WH Smith at Victoria will probably have it but I've not had a chance to call in there recently.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mmmmartin on July 14, 2012, 01:14:24 pm
Four British stage winners on a single Tour. British World Champion. British yellow jersey. Unbelievable.

d.

& as ever there's nary a shout in the British press ::-)

The Grauniad, Independent and Torygraph coverage is good. Haven't seen The Times coz it belongs to Rupert, or any tabloids.

OTOH there's bugger-all (well, 100 words a day hidden at the bottom of an LH page five from the back) in the London Evening Standard, despite Wiggo sometimes being described as a Londoner and having cut his track teeth at Herne Hill.
ahem, it is at the top of the front page of today's FT, with a big photograph as well. You just read the wrong papers.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Biff on July 14, 2012, 01:59:40 pm
In case anyone was wondering where

(http://new-funny.com/uploads/110701/1_212308_1.jpg)

is this year, 

http://road.cc/content/news/61234-didi-devil-misses-tour-he-recuperates-brain-surgery
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 14, 2012, 02:43:08 pm
... the 30 point penalty for Goss seems excessive to me. What do you think?

It's the 13 points for the position at the final sprint, and 17 points for wearing a beard.  :demon:

Regarding broadsheet coverage, it's a two-page spread in the Times today, with a good piece on why Sky are doing so well - it's because the money is being spent on the coaching and sports scientists, rather than on rider salaries. It's what Dave Brailsford is calling "Intellectual doping".
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 14, 2012, 03:14:58 pm
Lovely piece in - of all things - the Sun today about family man Cav. More a celebrity lifestyle piece than anything to do with the sport, but that just shows how the public profile of cycling is changing...
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/4428660/Tour-de-France-hero-Mark-Cavendish-talks-about-the-road-to-London-2012.html

Rather unsubtle but nonetheless welcome shoehorning in of Cav's reaction to the Di Gregorio arrest too (suspect Fran Millar is behind this - no coincidence that it comes a day after Brad's Guardian blog).

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 14, 2012, 04:07:42 pm
Lovely piece in - of all things - the Sun today about family man Cav. More a celebrity lifestyle piece than anything to do with the sport, but that just shows how the public profile of cycling is changing...

Interestingly, nothing about red lights, pavements, road tax etc etc ad nauseam in the Comments.



Yet.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Biff on July 14, 2012, 04:17:27 pm
Lovely piece in - of all things - the Sun today about family man Cav. More a celebrity lifestyle piece than anything to do with the sport, but that just shows how the public profile of cycling is changing...

Interestingly, nothing about red lights, pavements, road tax etc etc ad nauseam in the Comments.
Yet.

Prolly because RLJs and pavement riders have Sun reader mentality. If the article had been in the Wail......
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimO on July 14, 2012, 04:38:55 pm
In case anyone was wondering where

"Edited out Image of The Devil"

is this year, 

http://road.cc/content/news/61234-didi-devil-misses-tour-he-recuperates-brain-surgery

I hadn't realised he was missing, until you mentioned it.  He has been shown on the coverage most years, often either being explicitly mentioned, or shown in a montage at the end of the days show.  Hopefully he'll be back, being a nutter, next year. :thumbsup:

Today's finish was quite exciting.  The front couple of riders being caught, and leaving a sprint finish, that Greipel just took from Sagan.  I though it a little amusing that Wiggins acted as a lead out for Boasson Hagen, who failed to quite make good, only coming in third behind the others.  Wiggins came in tenth, wisely staying out of the very front, where nastiness can happen, but far enough up to make sure no time gaps appeared.

Wiggins can clearly put a bit of speed on when he needs to.  The wind looked somewhat punishing, although the speeds being done for the final hour or so would be impressive for me over a much shorter distance, with a stronger wind behind me!  When they're averaging 35mph, which I can achieve on the flat for a short while, you realise what a phenomenal achievement it is, doing this day after day for three weeks.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Biff on July 14, 2012, 05:19:41 pm
(https://p.twimg.com/AxxpGGHCIAE2MEI.png:medium)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: simonp on July 14, 2012, 05:48:29 pm
Was nice to see Sète featured, stayed there in 2007 when sailing in the Med with family.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 14, 2012, 06:29:48 pm
Here's a Simon Brotherton tweet (http://twitter.com/SimonBrotherton/status/224138749653696512) from earlier today:

Quote
BTW, road signs imply there's a nudie village at Cap D'Agde. French TV need to take care with those aerial chopper shots today.

I see what you did there...  ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mmmmartin on July 14, 2012, 06:57:26 pm
Lovely piece in - of all things - the MURDOCH OWNED Sun today about family man Cav WITH A GOOD PIC OF HIM WEARING THE KIT SHOWING HE IS SPONSORED BY MURDOCH OWNED SKY
it's a two-page spread in the MURDOCH OWNED Times today, with a good piece on why Sky, THE TEAM SPONSORED BY MURDOCH OWNED SKY are doing so well
I venture to suggest that if the Sky team was at the back there would be hardly any coverage in the Murdoch press.  And it is really interesting to see the Murdoch owned Times going out of its way to show that the team the Murdoch owned Sky is sponsoring is doing really well without using drugs. And I am sure they are not (there is some quite closely argued stuff I have seen recently looking at power output and saying they are not using drugs this year), because if they were found out, that would be yet another nail in the public relations for the Murdochs. It is good to see the sport getting good coverage, but there is a hidden agenda in this for some publishers.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 14, 2012, 07:29:18 pm
Is the Times contriving coverage of an event no-one's invested in? No. Fer chrissakes, we've been complaining for years that cycle racing gets a bum deal from the mainstream press. Now they're flavour of the month, we're going to complain because a Murdoch paper gives a Murdoch-sponsored team some space? Are the other papers ignoring the Tour because they don't like a competitor's team doing the winning? No, of course they aren't. Enjoy it while it lasts, no doubt we'll be back to obscurity soon enough.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 14, 2012, 07:55:16 pm
In case anyone was wondering where

"Edited out Image of The Devil"

is this year, 

http://road.cc/content/news/61234-didi-devil-misses-tour-he-recuperates-brain-surgery

I hadn't realised he was missing, until you mentioned it.  He has been shown on the coverage most years, often either being explicitly mentioned, or shown in a montage at the end of the days show.  Hopefully he'll be back, being a nutter, next year. :thumbsup:

Today's finish was quite exciting.  The front couple of riders being caught, and leaving a sprint finish, that Greipel just took from Sagan.  I though it a little amusing that Wiggins acted as a lead out for Boasson Hagen, who failed to quite make good, only coming in third behind the others.  Wiggins came in tenth, wisely staying out of the very front, where nastiness can happen, but far enough up to make sure no time gaps appeared.

Wiggins can clearly put a bit of speed on when he needs to.  The wind looked somewhat punishing, although the speeds being done for the final hour or so would be impressive for me over a much shorter distance, with a stronger wind behind me!  When they're averaging 35mph, which I can achieve on the flat for a short while, you realise what a phenomenal achievement it is, doing this day after day for three weeks.

Stunning lead out by Wiggo! Shame EBH couldn't make it stick, but a great effort. But where was Cav? (I've only seen part of the highlights).
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Auntie Helen on July 14, 2012, 07:58:12 pm
He got dropped on that hill 25km before the end and no-one in the group he was dropped with had any desire to catch up. He clearly realised he couldn't do it alone and sat up.

I reckon if this were the Olympic Road Race then all of Sky would have hung back, let him keep going and dragged him up to the front for the sprint finish. At least, I'm hoping that's what'd happen!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: welshwheels on July 14, 2012, 08:10:43 pm
I can not see cav staying with team sky after this contract ends however long it is ....... what a waste of talent being left on his own today and on the other sprint stage that he won he had no train !! he just jumped on gripel's wheel and done him as a true poacher cav is an exceptional sprinter who should have had more support of team sky today !!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Dibdib on July 14, 2012, 08:18:34 pm
I was also a little disappointed that Team Sky didn't put more effort into putting Cav in a position to contest the sprint, considering he's been slaving away as a waterboy all week. But it'll flatten out again soon enough.


As for Cav staying with Sky, well... realistically it's going to have to be him or Wiggo but not both - the last couple of weeks have shown that you can't really push for the yellow jersey and the points win at the same time. The numbers just don't work, and Cav's almost had no-one but Eisel for company since they left Belgium.  I think what'll be more interesting to see is whether Chris Froome will stay at Sky if Wiggins stays, as he's proved that he could possibly be a GC contender in his own right.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimO on July 14, 2012, 08:26:53 pm
Cav missed the break in the Peloton, and once he was in that position, they would have needed quite a lot of the team to try and get him back to the front.  At the end of the day, whilst winning stages is important, it's not as important to any team as keeping the Yellow Jersey, quite possibly until the end, so Cav lost out to Wiggins, quite rightly.

Cav is never likely to win the Yellow Jersey on The Tour, he's not really enough of a climber.  Even if he has improved his performance on the hills, this Tour has shown that he's still not enough of an all rounder to keep the Yellow Jersey.  Wiggins on the other hand, can, and the Yellow Jersey has a lot more credibility for advertising than individual stages, and at the end of the day, the team has to keep it's profile high, so that it's advertisers get coverage, since that's basically what they're paying for.

The Tour de France is a team sport.  Whilst you need individuals who can independently do good things, and who can occasionally win stages or sprints independently of the team, generally you are very reliant on the other team members if you want to make a credible attempt on the GC.

I can also see Chris Froome moving on.  If he does lead the team for the Vuelta, it'll be his chance to shine.  If he does well enough, I suspect he'll be looking for another team to move onto very soon.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 14, 2012, 08:40:31 pm
Cav has been dropped on nasty little climbs near the finish like that on stages in the past when he's been tipped to win. Even with all of his HTC team mates around him. He can barely get over a railway bridge - even if he has lost 4 kilos!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: welshwheels on July 14, 2012, 08:50:16 pm
Cav has been dropped on nasty little climbs near the finish like that on stages in the past when he's been tipped to win. Even with all of his HTC team mates around him. He can barely get over a railway bridge - even if he has lost 4 kilos!
  ;D I agree he will never win yellow but  in a bunch sprint finish your money has got to be on cav ? (mine iS)
 when he was at H T C he was the superstar in the team and everything worked around him it must be a bit of a blow for him not only to be playing second fiddle to wiggo to be left on his todd  on astage with a sprint finish like today .         

I agree that the G C is the most important part of the tour but on a stage like today I would have thought sky would have tried to have cav there for the final sprint ?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: David Martin on July 14, 2012, 09:00:43 pm
Brad said in his post race interview that they had discussed that but the split was too big to do anything about.

Froome is contracted for another 2 years to Sky. I can see him being the 'second GT leader' for the Vuelta, and maybe the Giro. Then we will see. Will one yellow jersey be enough for wiggins?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: welshwheels on July 14, 2012, 09:06:19 pm
I think once he has a taste of yellow he will want more  :thumbsup: He was impressive in the final 1k when he got on the front and led out for evb real quality there !!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimO on July 14, 2012, 09:11:09 pm
... Will one yellow jersey be enough for wiggins?

I doubt it.  Was one GC win ever enough for Contador, Armstrong, Indurain, LeMond, Fignon, Hinault, Thévenet or Merckx? (just going back to 1970 and Merckx's wins).

If they think they're capable of winning again, they're clearly going to keep on trying, because after all, who wouldn't. ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Veloman on July 14, 2012, 09:22:27 pm
Is the Times contriving coverage of an event no-one's invested in? No. Fer chrissakes, we've been complaining for years that cycle racing gets a bum deal from the mainstream press. Now they're flavour of the month, we're going to complain because a Murdoch paper gives a Murdoch-sponsored team some space? Are the other papers ignoring the Tour because they don't like a competitor's team doing the winning? No, of course they aren't. Enjoy it while it lasts, no doubt we'll be back to obscurity soon enough.

Totally agree with TimC.

As I have already indicated, there are some very negative comments regarding the TDF on this Forum and it would appear that when we are in the best position we have ever been in the TDF as a nation, all some want to do is moan about something; commentary, tactics, drugs, press coverage etc etc.

My reaction is similar in sentiment to that of BW, if that is all you have got to contribute, then well ...............
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 14, 2012, 09:31:52 pm
Brad said in his post race interview that they had discussed that but the split was too big to do anything about.

Froome is contracted for another 2 years to Sky. I can see him being the 'second GT leader' for the Vuelta, and maybe the Giro. Then we will see. Will one yellow jersey be enough for wiggins?
Then someone was asleep on the job. Cav should never have been allowed to be the wrong side of the split. This was probably his only chance till the last day to have a serious chance of another stage, and as World Champion he should have been put in the right place to have a shot - how come EBH had that chance and Cav didn't? Yes, I know these things happen - and it may have been Cav himself that was asleep - but it seems a damn shame

As for Froome, he'll stay if the cheque is. If enough and he's given a shot at the Vuelta and/or Giro.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: ran doner on July 14, 2012, 09:33:35 pm
Surely when Wiggo said the "Olympic TT is NOT a target for me as I've promised I'll work Cav in the road race" the return is Cav will have to do his own thing in the TdF this year.

If BC/Brailsford can decide on Cav winning a WC 3 years out I'm sure this TdF and Olympics were discussed prior to Cav signing for Sky.

Next year when the TdF is full of climbing again Froome can climb with Wiggo in support and Cav can have 3 dedicated to the sprint train.

Also today i only saw 2 top sprinters that made it over the top today, greipel and hauteurwhatisname. (albeit I had no commentary).


Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Veloman on July 14, 2012, 09:33:51 pm
He got dropped on that hill 25km before the end and no-one in the group he was dropped with had any desire to catch up. He clearly realised he couldn't do it alone and sat up.

I reckon if this were the Olympic Road Race then all of Sky would have hung back, let him keep going and dragged him up to the front for the sprint finish. At least, I'm hoping that's what'd happen!

The 'main man' in the Olympic RR is Cav.  The team will support him just as he was supported during the WC.

The 'main man' in the TDF is BW and Cav knows that.  The team could not go back and leave BW to his own means as it could jeopardise the GC.  If Cav could not get up the hill like Greipal and Sagan, then he does not expect to win the stage.  Also, if Cav thought he was in with a chance, he would have conserved far more energy on the stage and have been further up the front.  I think stages 15/18/20 will better suit Cav.  Interesting to note that some expected him to have packed by now in order to rest for Olympics.  Still time for that to happen though and I'm sure the backroom staff are considering the suffering/benefit factors.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Toady on July 14, 2012, 09:38:42 pm
 When Cav signed for Sky I didn't understand why but assumed that this was due to my ignorance of pro racing and all would become clear. It has not done so. I still don't understand why. For Sky,  why employ a superstar sprinter as little more than  a non-climbing domestique when a top rouleur would be of more use to the team? For Cav why join a team that has other fish to fry and cannot support you? All I can think is that Cav provides Sky with a famous face and Sky provide him with a lot of dosh.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: ran doner on July 14, 2012, 09:41:03 pm
Brad said in his post race interview that they had discussed that but the split was too big to do anything about.

Froome is contracted for another 2 years to Sky. I can see him being the 'second GT leader' for the Vuelta, and maybe the Giro. Then we will see. Will one yellow jersey be enough for wiggins?
Then someone was asleep on the job. Cav should never have been allowed to be the wrong side of the split. This was probably his only chance till the last day to have a serious chance of another stage, and as World Champion he should have been put in the right place to have a shot - how come EBH had that chance and Cav didn't? Yes, I know these things happen - and it may have been Cav himself that was asleep - but it seems a damn shame

As for Froome, he'll stay if the cheque is. If enough and he's given a shot at the Vuelta and/or Giro.

I believe there is a real flat day on Friday for Cav.

Why should half or more of a team wait for Cav to get over a tough dig when he has little chance of getting back into the lead group?  The reason EBH had a shot is because he went over the top of the climb in the lead group.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: plum on July 14, 2012, 09:42:51 pm
The devil mentioned earlier was removed from coverage two years ago because he took sponsorship. Can't remember exactly, was Coke or something like that splashed all over the big bike and they wouldn't allow the advertising.

As for Cav, they must be paying him an awful lot of money.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: welshwheels on July 14, 2012, 09:44:20 pm
but it is a shame for cav to be a rainbow jersey wearing domestique                                                       (http://drunkcyclist.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/cavdom-550x365.jpg) 

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 14, 2012, 09:47:43 pm
Is the Times contriving coverage of an event no-one's invested in? No. Fer chrissakes, we've been complaining for years that cycle racing gets a bum deal from the mainstream press. Now they're flavour of the month, we're going to complain because a Murdoch paper gives a Murdoch-sponsored team some space? Are the other papers ignoring the Tour because they don't like a competitor's team doing the winning? No, of course they aren't. Enjoy it while it lasts, no doubt we'll be back to obscurity soon enough.

Totally agree with TimC.

As I have already indicated, there are some very negative comments regarding the TDF on this Forum and it would appear that when we are in the best position we have ever been in the TDF as a nation, all some want to do is moan about something; commentary, tactics, drugs, press coverage etc etc.

My reaction is similar in sentiment to that of BW, if that is all you have got to contribute, then well ...............


Yebbut, as ani fule kno, we BRITONS aren't happy unless we have something, or someone to bitch about.  :demon:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 14, 2012, 09:49:53 pm
Brad said in his post race interview that they had discussed that but the split was too big to do anything about.

Froome is contracted for another 2 years to Sky. I can see him being the 'second GT leader' for the Vuelta, and maybe the Giro. Then we will see. Will one yellow jersey be enough for wiggins?
Then someone was asleep on the job. Cav should never have been allowed to be the wrong side of the split. This was probably his only chance till the last day to have a serious chance of another stage, and as World Champion he should have been put in the right place to have a shot - how come EBH had that chance and Cav didn't? Yes, I know these things happen - and it may have been Cav himself that was asleep - but it seems a damn shame

As for Froome, he'll stay if the cheque is. If enough and he's given a shot at the Vuelta and/or Giro.

I believe there is a real flat day on Friday for Cav.

Why should half or more of a team wait for Cav to get over a tough dig when he has little chance of getting back into the lead group?  The reason EBH had a shot is because he went over the top of the climb in the lead group.

They shouldn't, of course - and I did say it may have been Cav who screwed it up - but it is a damn shame. Of course, it may all be part of the great Brailsford Olympic Plan!
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: ran doner on July 14, 2012, 09:59:35 pm
Brad said in his post race interview that they had discussed that but the split was too big to do anything about.

Froome is contracted for another 2 years to Sky. I can see him being the 'second GT leader' for the Vuelta, and maybe the Giro. Then we will see. Will one yellow jersey be enough for wiggins?
Then someone was asleep on the job. Cav should never have been allowed to be the wrong side of the split. This was probably his only chance till the last day to have a serious chance of another stage, and as World Champion he should have been put in the right place to have a shot - how come EBH had that chance and Cav didn't? Yes, I know these things happen - and it may have been Cav himself that was asleep - but it seems a damn shame

As for Froome, he'll stay if the cheque is. If enough and he's given a shot at the Vuelta and/or Giro.

I believe there is a real flat day on Friday for Cav.

Why should half or more of a team wait for Cav to get over a tough dig when he has little chance of getting back into the lead group?  The reason EBH had a shot is because he went over the top of the climb in the lead group.

They shouldn't, of course - and I did say it may have been Cav who screwed it up - but it is a damn shame. Of course, it may all be part of the great Brailsford Olympic Plan!

We seem to be too hard on Cav. Today was a tough dig with 23k ish left from the top. Maybe if Lotto hadn't chased down Vino/Albadini he may of got back.

I've never been up Box Hill or checked out the gradients but is it a hill Cav can do 9 times and be close enough to be bought back to the lead group by 4 team mates before they hit that Landon ??? Or should I be betting on a Sagan/Gilbert type ???
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 14, 2012, 10:04:16 pm
Cav should never have been allowed to be the wrong side of the split. This was probably his only chance till the last day to have a serious chance of another stage, and as World Champion he should have been put in the right place to have a shot - how come EBH had that chance and Cav didn't?

The steepest part of that climb was 20%. Evans attacked... They would have had to sacrifice the yellow jersey just for a non-guaranteed chance of a stage win for Cav today.

Anyway, you may have noticed that Cav didn't even contest the intermediate sprint yesterday. He's not chasing scraps. There are two reasons Cav is still in this Tour: 1. Keeping in race shape for the Olympics. 2. The opportunity to make it 4 out of 4 on the Champs-Elysées. You can guarantee that Sky will give him the full lead-out in Paris and looking at the form book, I'm betting on him to take it. Greipel is looking very good but he won't beat Cav if he really wants it.

We might see Cav trying to contest stages 15 and/or 18, but far more likely that he'll keep his powder dry for Paris.

Quote
As for Froome, he'll stay if the cheque is. If enough and he's given a shot at the Vuelta and/or Giro.

He'll stay if he has any sense because no other team will give him a better chance of success.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 14, 2012, 10:09:39 pm
I believe there is a real flat day on Friday for Cav.

Hopefully he'll come round Greipel again and show him who's boss. He's getting a bit big for his boots and needs bringing down a peg or two. The Twat (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/peace-declared-after-greipel-sends-threatening-sms-to-boeckmans)
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 14, 2012, 10:16:33 pm
why employ a superstar sprinter as little more than  a non-climbing domestique when a top rouleur would be of more use to the team?

He won a stage, might have won two more if things had gone his way, and will probably win at least one more.

Sheesh, I guess it's a sign of how far we've come when we have a British World Champion who's won a stage of the Tour de France and we're complaining because the team is putting its efforts into backing the British rider who's leading GC...

It never rains, eh?

d.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 14, 2012, 10:24:52 pm
At the end of the day, whilst winning stages is important, it's not as important to any team as keeping the Yellow Jersey, quite possibly until the end, so Cav lost out to Wiggins, quite rightly.

Cav is never likely to win the Yellow Jersey on The Tour, he's not really enough of a climber.  Even if he has improved his performance on the hills, this Tour has shown that he's still not enough of an all rounder to keep the Yellow Jersey.  Wiggins on the other hand, can, and the Yellow Jersey has a lot more credibility for advertising than individual stages, and at the end of the day, the team has to keep it's profile high, so that it's advertisers get coverage, since that's basically what they're paying for.

What I think a lot of the responses in this thread reflect is the fact that the majority of the British public, even the ones who follow cycling, don't really understand why stage wins don't equate to overall victory.

How is it that Brad has won only won stage but is likely to win overall, while Cav has won 21 stages but will never wear the yellow jersey? Eh? Eh? Eh?

This is why Chris Hoy is so popular - it's much easier (and less time consuming)* to follow track racing (silly events like the points race notwithstanding).

d.

*and less interesting.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 14, 2012, 10:29:16 pm
[snipped to save space - Ed]

We seem to be too hard on Cav. Today was a tough dig with 23k ish left from the top. Maybe if Lotto hadn't chased down Vino/Albadini he may of got back.

I've never been up Box Hill or checked out the gradients but is it a hill Cav can do 9 times and be close enough to be bought back to the lead group by 4 team mates before they hit that Landon ??? Or should I be betting on a Sagan/Gilbert type ???

Elsewhere on the webs, I noticed yesterday that someone had quoted Laurent Jalabert as saying that many riders were going to find that hill to be a nasty surprise. He wasn't wrong.

By itself, the hill might not have been a problem, but it was the strong cross-wind that ultimately led to the back half of the peloton sitting up. You may remember that cross-winds were an issue on stages 3 and 5 of the 2009 edition of the Tour  ;):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Tour_de_France,_Stage_1_to_Stage_11#Stage_3

Regarding Box Hill, I used to live nearby - it's not especially steep, though the part before the first hairpin on the way up always used to feel somewhat "draggy". The pros should be able to ride it on the big ring*. After the last circuit, there should be enough distance back to the finish in that London to get back on if a split forms.

* My personal opinion is that if there wasn't a level crossing on the road, they should have taken the route further east to Betchworth, and climbed on to the downs up the B2032 Pebblehill Road instead. It's a shorter climb than Box Hill, but it's nastier. When you get to Pebble Coombe, the gradient kicks up dramatically. Put it like this, if I was riding southwards on that road, I could be nudging 50mph at the point between Fraser Wood and Dawcombe Wood...

Linky (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll=51.261002,-0.264187&spn=0.04227,0.077162&t=m&z=14)


EDIT - earlier post quoted for context.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Toady on July 14, 2012, 10:42:29 pm

He won a stage, might have won two more if things had gone his way, and will probably win at least one more.

Sheesh, I guess it's a sign of how far we've come when we have a British World Champion who's won a stage of the Tour de France and we're complaining because the team is putting its efforts into backing the British rider who's leading GC...

It never rains, eh?

d.
I see what you mean, but I wasn't complaining about today. I just don't really understand why Cavendish chose Sky (and vice versa). It doesn't seem to be a marriage made iI heaven.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 14, 2012, 10:43:33 pm
Elsewhere on the webs, I noticed yesterday that someone had quoted Laurent Jalabert as saying that many riders were going to find that hill to be a nasty surprise. He wasn't wrong.

If there's one team you can guarantee had done their homework, it's Sky. Evans and Van Den Broeck also seemed to know when to make their move.

Quote
Regarding Box Hill, I used to live nearby - it's not especially steep, though the part before the first hairpin on the way up always used to feel somewhat "draggy".

Today's climb was much harder than Box Hill and was only a cat 3...

d.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 14, 2012, 10:47:41 pm
I just don't really understand why Cavendish chose Sky (and vice versa). It doesn't seem to be a marriage made iI heaven.

Well, he's said himself that he's benefited from Sky's training methods, especially with regard to preparing for the Olympics.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: plum on July 14, 2012, 11:12:08 pm
Cav should never have been allowed to be the wrong side of the split. This was probably his only chance till the last day to have a serious chance of another stage, and as World Champion he should have been put in the right place to have a shot - how come EBH had that chance and Cav didn't?
2. The opportunity to make it 4 out of 4 on the Champs-Elysées. You can guarantee that Sky will give him the full lead-out in Paris
If he hangs around that long?
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 14, 2012, 11:28:04 pm
What makes you think he won't?

I mean, I'm only going by the fact that he has said himself in interviews that he's planning to stay for the whole race. If you have any better information, please share it with us.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Andrew Br on July 14, 2012, 11:28:26 pm
but it is a shame for cav to be a rainbow jersey wearing domestique                                                       (http://drunkcyclist.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/cavdom-550x365.jpg)

Seems to me that he's pitching in to help the team.
Commendable IMO.

Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 14, 2012, 11:33:05 pm
Cav has always been first to express his gratitude to his team-mates for the work they do on his behalf. This is a practical way of showing it. And of showing what a true superstar, sportsman and gentleman he really is.

d.


Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Jakob on July 15, 2012, 06:05:11 am
(http://www.jubileepartypacks.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/cheerleader1.jpg)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 15, 2012, 08:19:43 am
Cav has always been first to express his gratitude to his team-mates for the work they do on his behalf.

Unfortunately it wasn't this team though was it ?  Back in the days of HTC they'd have paced him back after yesterday's climb and he'd have won the stage.

Even on those occasions when Sky commit to working for him they generally make a mess of it, probably because they do it so infrequently.

I hope he leaves for a team that are prepared to properly support him some time very soon.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Manotea on July 15, 2012, 08:31:39 am
is this payback to wiggins for the world champ support? Who will be team leader for the olympics?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rainmaker on July 15, 2012, 08:48:50 am
Posted by: citoyen  Yesterday at 10:04:16 PM
Anyway, you may have noticed that Cav didn't even contest the intermediate sprint yesterday. He's not chasing scraps. There are two reasons Cav is still in this Tour: 1. Keeping in race shape for the Olympics. 2. The opportunity to make it 4 out of 4 on the Champs-Elysées. You can guarantee that Sky will give him the full lead-out in Paris and looking at the form book, I'm betting on him to take it. Greipel is looking very good but he won't beat Cav if he really wants it.

I couldn't agree more, provided there is no major upset in the next seven days I'm looking forward to seeing the whole of Team Sky on the front of the peleton for the last two circuits of the Champs Elysee and giving Cav the perfect lead out to make it 4 out of 4.   For the next seven days I'm keeping everything crossed.
 
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rainmaker on July 15, 2012, 09:06:20 am
Posted by: citoyen: Yesterday at 11:33:05 PM
Cav has always been first to express his gratitude to his team-mates for the work they do on his behalf. This is a practical way of showing it. And of showing what a true superstar, sportsman and gentleman he really is.

+1
Plus he seems determined to "honour" the World Championship jersey.

I cannot understand the adverse comments about yesterdays stage.   Cav was off the back at the start of the hill, are you suggesting that they push him up the hill?   There was still 20+kilometers to the end of the stage, with a cross/ headwind  and several strong teams (eg BMC, Lotto) prepared to try and put Wiggins into difficulties.   However many riders Sky might have pulled back to help Cav they would have had to ride themselves into the ground to bring him back to the leading group.   On the other hand they had Edward B in the group who very nearly won the stage.   
.


Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 15, 2012, 09:22:20 am
Adverse comments? Not really. Just disappointment that a stage that was hyped as ideal for Cav didn't work out that way.  It was still a fascinating stage.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: hatler on July 15, 2012, 09:29:34 am
Adverse comments? Not really. Just disappointment that a stage that was hyped as ideal for Cav didn't work out that way.  It was still a fascinating stage.
Except that the hype was misinformed. That was a killer hill.

Sky cannot jeopardise the MJ. As said above, pulling Cav back to the front would probably have been disastrous.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mcshroom on July 15, 2012, 09:45:13 am
To be honest Sky had their No2 sprinter in the group, so for the team it probably made more sense to try and set up EBH for the stage. Cav can't get green, Wiggo already has yellow so other than entertaining the Brits I think it makes sense to treat the ride the way they did.

Cav has been blown out of the back on steep hills during 'flat' stages before, even with an entire HTC team to drag him back so there's no guarantee that sky could have put him in position anyway.

I'm just glad that we are disappointed that British riders aren't winning everything. When i started watching the tour if a Brit won a stage it was amazing :)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: plum on July 15, 2012, 10:11:23 am
What makes you think he won't?
Well it was a question not a claim, but based on the fact that there's no shortage of speculation out there. Just a few days before the Tour started Geraint Thomas said

 "It's a big ask finishing two Grand Tours, especially for Cav, who doesn't find climbing that easy and has some hard days out there."

And he's certainly having a hard time out there this tour. I was just wondering is all.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: DaveJ on July 15, 2012, 10:34:19 am
I hope the Sky lead out is more organised in Paris than it has been so far.  Both times so far this tour that they have attempted to lead a sprinter out, they have run out of steam too early.

Wiggo did a great job bringing those two back in the last km, but when he pulled over with a couple of hundred metres still to go, it left EBH on his own with Greipel on his wheel.

Dave
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 15, 2012, 11:18:41 am

 the majority of the British public, even the ones who follow cycling, don't really understand why stage wins don't equate to overall victory. <snip>
This is why Chris Hoy is so popular - it's much easier (and less time consuming)* to follow track racing (silly events like the points race notwithstanding).

d.

*and less interesting.

+1 to all that. I've been following the TdF on TV since 1984 and I still sometimes have to have things explained.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 15, 2012, 11:42:15 am
I think Cav's reasons for joining Sky are more about the future than just this year's Tour. 2012 was always going to be a bit different for him - Sky had/has a realistic chance of winning in Wiggins (which Cav was/is happy to be part of) and then you've got the Olympics which he obviously wants a crack at.

It's almost as if he had already written off his chances of doing much at this year's Tour - hence his completion of the Giro and his weight loss in preparation for the Olympics.

It seems to me (from what he's said in interviews, on Twatter etc..) that he wants to expand his Palmarès and he sees Sky as the best team to help him do that. He's already won a shit load of Tour stages (and I believe L'Équipe put him at No 1 of all time Tour sprinters recently) and he wants more. He wants classics, he wants other stage races. He's proved what he can do at the Tour and with just a couple more wins (which he could well get before this Tour is over) he will have won more stages than any other sprinter. Ever.

He wants more than that. Le Tour may be the biggest race in road cycling, but it's not the be all and end all. Look at the criticism Armstrong got for never bothering with anything else other than the Tour. Cav doesn't want that.

I reckon once this season is over and we move into 2013, Cav will be able to work on his goals as the Olympics and the bizarre situation that a Briton may actually win the Tour will be done and dusted.

I reckon he's perfectly happy where he is and knew right from the start that he could be carrying bottles for the team on certain stages. Even if it is most odd for the Rainbow Jersey to be doing so!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: pcolbeck on July 15, 2012, 11:49:28 am
I still think he fancies a crack at Merckx's record though. Another 14 stage wind to go. How man years does he have left to get those ? Two a year means it would take another seven. I think he needs three a year at least.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Biff on July 15, 2012, 12:23:58 pm
A theory: Cav/Sky are playing mind games. Shoot me down.
Cav is soft pedalling to give the impression that he is shot. He is not needed for Wiggos overall. He has wone his contractual stage. @London 2012 he lets leash. I do love a conspiracy  :P
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: cuddy duck on July 15, 2012, 01:34:59 pm
On the subject of kit, the one with the brown shorts and blue-and-white top is just  :sick:
Curiously, of all the teams, that's the kit I like best.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Dibdib on July 15, 2012, 01:51:18 pm
On the subject of kit, the one with the brown shorts and blue-and-white top is just  :sick:
Curiously, of all the teams, that's the kit I like best.

Same here, it's got a bit of retro charm to it I think. Similarly, the Colnago kit (http://www.cycling-wear.com/2012-colnago-blue-and-white-short-sleeve-cycling-jersey-and-cycling-short-kit.html) is rather nice IMO too.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Giropaul on July 15, 2012, 01:56:33 pm
There really is no pleasing some people is there?

The British have a rider in yellow, and one in 2nd spot. There's an increasing chance every day that Wiggins can win the Tour. Winning the Tour was the number 1 Sky objective this year, with the Olympics.

So why are there whinges about Cav not getting leadouts etc? Let's be clear here, there is no leadout team here (apart from Bernie as a "minder"). Cav himself has said that it's about getting the yellow jersey to Paris - and has stated that this is the pinnacle of cycling. As far as the paymasters are concerned a yellow jersey in Paris is worth more than a green jersey. Look at the column inches so far for Wiggins.

When his old team closed, and the leadout squad inevitably became split up, only one or two teams could afford Cav. Main players were BMC and Sky. BMC are no more (probably less) likely to give him a train for the TdF. Who else? Lotto - already had Greipel. Green Edge - got Australian sprinters. Rabobank - no train, and sprints not high on agenda. The only teams with leadout trains at the Tour are Lotto, and Green Edge. Neither could pay the £2m anyway to get Cav I would guess.

Cav has had a good season, and has won a stage race as well as stage wins. He's riding the Tour mainly for conditioning I guess, and because he's in the Rainbow Jersey, and he has a strong sense of responsibility to show it to the public and to respect the sport, and the Tour (unlike some other riders in the past). Hopefully, he'll be in the mix for the Olympics, although it's the biggest lottery of a race always. Wiggins and Froome can do leadouts, but not do that and defend a jersey! Anyway, many of the traditional leadout heavies might not be there after Box Hill. BC and Sky are incredible in their analysis and planning, and know just who will be the best to be there.

I still wouldn't dismiss any idea of Wiggins giving Cav the ultimate leadout in London though!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Thor on July 15, 2012, 04:53:32 pm
Tacksxing stage for some riders today. But Luis Leon Sanchez nailed it.  IGMC
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimO on July 15, 2012, 04:58:16 pm
Giropaul +1

Sky has been doing brilliantly.  So far they've won four stages, which is more than France has so far this Tour.  They've had people in yellow and polka dot, and are still in yellow with a very good chance of winning the GC.  The team was winning the team classification for the first seven days.  No one can complain about all that.

At the end of the day, their main interest is keeping Wiggins in yellow, if they can get Cav to a sprint finish, without risking yellow, they will, but don't hold your breath, because yellow is going to be their main interest.  Cav will probably have to work harder than he usually does, to make sure he's in the correct place, and possibly with a less than optimal lead out team (if at all).  Cav is capable of doing that on the right course, but sometimes things won't work out perfectly, especially on stages like yesterday, when that gert big hill was always likely to scupper Cav's chances, he's not a climber.


Anyway, back to today.  The small group of leaders, including Peter Sagan were always going to win the stage, they got so far out in front, there was no chance that the Peleton was going to catch them up, so it was a good win for Sanchez.

The tacks on the road was a bit of a disaster.  It would have been interesting to see how the leaders of the peloton managed to get down from that horrendous climb up the Mur de Péguère, which looked fairly horrible, the speed that many of the cyclists appeared to be doing.

They're reporting something like 30 visitations occurring around the top of the climb, which makes you think that someone should have seen who did it, because the number of people around the climb, as ever, was huge.

Someone also crashed with a broken collar bone, which may have been caused by the tacks, so if the French police find anyone, they're a bit stuffed.  On the flip side, at least that's all that happened.  A puncture at the 60-70mph that you can apparently achieve on that downhill could have been fatal, so in many respects it wasn't as bad as it could have been.

It appears that Wiggins decided to neutralise the race, especially when Cadel Evans had had to stop three times with two flats, as did many other riders.  That seems to be the right thing to have done, so it's reasonable, but spoilt the final race, since there could have been some interesting racing up to the line, although it would probably have been a finish where things wouldn't have changed much.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 15, 2012, 05:13:05 pm
Well, that was... interesting, though not for the reasons I was expecting! Looking at the parcours, one would have thought that Evans, Nibali or VDB would have tried animating the race on the Mur, but Wiggins never looked even remotely under threat, and once Rogers had got back on and at the front, well that was it.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: pcolbeck on July 15, 2012, 05:19:08 pm
Not complaining as anyone who can do the TDF is amazing in my book but Wiggo is winning this in the mode ala Armstrong ie gain time in the time trails and then use the team to neutralize the rest of the race. Is it possible to win it any other way in these days of scientific analysis of power outputs and team radios ?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 15, 2012, 05:21:26 pm
What happened last year?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Giropaul on July 15, 2012, 05:23:49 pm
As of today Wiggins is leading the race as patron, not just leader.

There are times when I'm proud of the sport, today was one.

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mzjo on July 15, 2012, 05:48:42 pm
What happened last year?

Cadel Evans neutralised (or at least limited ) the opposition in the climbs and took the time on the tt which he had taken a lot of trouble to prepare.

Funny, the last people than I can remember really taking the tour apart on a climb and winning it were Ulrich and Pantani. Do I have a short memory?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Gareth Rees on July 15, 2012, 07:07:30 pm
Funny, the last people than I can remember really taking the tour apart on a climb and winning it were Ulrich and Pantani. Do I have a short memory?

And Floyd Landis in 2006.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: twiddler on July 15, 2012, 08:20:59 pm
A theory: Cav/Sky are playing mind games. Shoot me down.
Cav is soft pedalling to give the impression that he is shot. He is not needed for Wiggos overall. He has wone his contractual stage. @London 2012 he lets leash. I do love a conspiracy  :P

Well perhaps you blew their cover causing Cav to come out to play today?!


Generally speaking i'm not sure why people seem to complicate cycle racing, it's a team effort, rather than bemusement surely the likes of Cav should be praised for his efforts for the team.  As Brailsford's roles cover both national and team events he can ensure aims and efforts of each rider are directed towards maximising outcomes, he seems pretty straightforward in identifying targets and preparing riders to meet them, it appears it's the speculation of others which muddies the water.

Similarly, it appears that riders can undermine their own best interests through not recognising the bigger picture of their team, e.g. today's Froome article (if accurate) and Van Gaarderen's (apparent) selective hearing at the top of the last summit today. 

Not that i've never made a mistake in my life myself mind!


An appointment to shoot you down CJ Biff,
anytime this evening would suit me fine,
yes CJ Biff, 9.30 in the morning,
thankyou CJ Biff.   
Can you not just re-register as CJ?
 :D

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rhys W on July 15, 2012, 10:43:17 pm
As of today Wiggins is leading the race as patron, not just leader.

There are times when I'm proud of the sport, today was one.

Yes indeed. Echoes of Armstrong waiting for Ulrich after he went flying over the barrier. Brad did the maillot jaune proud today.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rhys W on July 16, 2012, 12:21:01 am
I blame the Russians. I heard they were Karpets' tacks.  ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rainmaker on July 16, 2012, 07:42:54 am
Posted by: Rhys W: Today at 12:21:01 AM
I blame the Russians. I heard they were Karpets' tacks. 

Oh dear!!!!!!    Give that man a cigar!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ewan Houzami on July 16, 2012, 11:34:24 am
Chances are you've seen this if you're a Twitterer, but if not

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/bradley-wiggins-targeted-by-wile-e-coyote-2012071634368

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Bledlow on July 16, 2012, 11:43:05 am
As of today Wiggins is leading the race as patron, not just leader.

There are times when I'm proud of the sport, today was one.
Yep. Only one rider didn't do as he said, & the peloton rode him down before the end, so he didn't gain from it. The peloton obviously respects Wiggo, & agreed with his action.

The leading bunch don't count, of course. Too far away, & none of them a threat to the GC.

Being le patron doesn't stop 'em racing you, though.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 16, 2012, 11:49:26 am
Hard to see what Rolland could possibly have gained from his move anyway - there were too many in the breakaway, and they were too far ahead for him.

Therefore you have to believe that he's telling the truth about getting no communication from the team car - presumably as well as telling him he was being unsporting, they would also have told him his move was stupid, and instructed him to save his energy for the mountains.

The really unsporting move of the day was Tejay Van Garderen not waiting for Cadel at the top of the climb. He's gone right down in my estimation.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rhys W on July 16, 2012, 11:51:02 am
(http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/403862_10151049244839243_2029620493_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Wowbagger on July 16, 2012, 11:54:44 am
But isn't Van Garderen in the same team as Evans? I suppose he could argue that he's protecting his white jersey, which Evans isn't contesting.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 16, 2012, 12:05:36 pm
Is there any clue as to who threw the tacks? Just hoolies for the lulz? It can't have been aimed at any particular rider or team and if it had been some kind of social/political/industrial/etc protest, you'd have thought there'd be some demonstrators. "We will disrupt every stage in the Pyrenees until the Pyrenean dialect is recognised as an official language" or whatever.

Also, Evans and presumably others punctured before the summit - but there were loads of spectators on the climb, so it's odd that no one noticed anything on such a narrow road.

But isn't Van Garderen in the same team as Evans? I suppose he could argue that he's protecting his white jersey, which Evans isn't contesting.
There's already been one stage in the Alps where Van Garderen had to slow down to allow a knackered Evans to catch up, and he was visibly unhappy there. I reckon he probably feels he's stronger than Evans in this race, and quite likely he's right, and he's frustratedly champing at the bit. I'm not sure whether the same is also true of Froome with regard to Wiggins - I think Froome is more loyal/sensible/patient.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 16, 2012, 12:19:55 pm
Is there any clue as to who threw the tacks? Just hoolies for the lulz? It can't have been aimed at any particular rider or team and if it had been some kind of social/political/industrial/etc protest, you'd have thought there'd be some demonstrators. "We will disrupt every stage in the Pyrenees until the Pyrenean dialect is recognised as an official language" or whatever.


Wasn't yesterday a first ascent of the Col by the Tour?

Perhaps it was a disgruntled Col dweller annoyed at the road closures and disruption a'la Etape de Caledonia?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 16, 2012, 12:29:46 pm
They did mention it was the first time the Tour's used that road, I forgot that. Could be so, Fuzzy, though it sounds terribly un-French to protest against le Tour!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 16, 2012, 12:34:50 pm
Conspiracy theory 1: It was the Spanish government agents! They wanted to show that French roads are insecure so next year the TdF should cross the Pyrenees and use Spanish roads, so boosting their ailing economy.

Conspiracy theory 2: It was the bike shop in the town at the bottom of the mountain, advertising his rapid puncture repair service.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Oscar's dad on July 16, 2012, 12:38:00 pm
Apologies if this has been discussed somewhere in the preceding 40+ pages but what's Cav's plan?  I'm guessing he is planning something spectacular for the  Champs-Élysées and wants an Olympic gold to add to his impressive collection of achievements.  In the meantime he seems to have been doing a great job supporting his team during the Tour or have I got that bit wrong?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 16, 2012, 12:39:23 pm
They did mention it was the first time the Tour's used that road, I forgot that. Could be so, Fuzzy, though it sounds terribly un-French to protest against le Tour!

There are some sections of French (and other nationality) society that would protest at the closing of a book of matches.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Pingu on July 16, 2012, 12:45:20 pm
Could've been the 'Non a l'ours' mob.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Dibdib on July 16, 2012, 12:59:17 pm
Apologies if this has been discussed somewhere in the preceding 40+ pages but what's Cav's plan?  I'm guessing he is planning something spectacular for the  Champs-Élysées and wants an Olympic gold to add to his impressive collection of achievements.  In the meantime he seems to have been doing a great job supporting his team during the Tour or have I got that bit wrong?

That seems to be it. Sagan and Greipel seem to have the green jersey competition sewn up, but Cav probably fancies four in a row on the Champs-Élysées and is using the rest of the tour to stay in top condition for the Olympics.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 16, 2012, 01:20:10 pm
But isn't Van Garderen in the same team as Evans? I suppose he could argue that he's protecting his white jersey, which Evans isn't contesting.

Evans still has to be considered as a contender for overall victory, which is far more important than the white jersey.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: simonp on July 16, 2012, 01:22:43 pm
Quite. It looked like he heard Evans shouting and pressed on. Perhaps it was noisy up there, perhaps he assumed another team mate would be just behind.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 16, 2012, 01:24:38 pm
He admitted that in hindsight he screwed up. I think that was big of him - whether it excuses him is down to Cadel and BMC!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: vorsprung on July 16, 2012, 01:41:06 pm
Posted by: Rhys W: Today at 12:21:01 AM
I blame the Russians. I heard they were Karpets' tacks. 

Oh dear!!!!!!    Give that man a cigar!

They don't use tacks, they use stair rods
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 16, 2012, 01:52:24 pm
Could've been the 'Non a l'ours' mob.

That would be bear-faced cheek.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 16, 2012, 04:37:52 pm
Posted by: Rhys W: Today at 12:21:01 AM
I blame the Russians. I heard they were Karpets' tacks. 

Oh dear!!!!!!    Give that man a cigar!

They don't use tacks, they use stair rods

When I heard that Wiggins had avoided tacks.....blah ..blah... something about Jimmy Carr...I'm too lazy to be bothered with a punchline.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: welshwheels on July 16, 2012, 04:41:10 pm
(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/580896_393332837396423_450872023_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ewan Houzami on July 16, 2012, 04:50:03 pm
Zzzzzzzzz. Watching today's stage I'm left thinking that was three hours of my life I'll never get back. I could have gone for a ride!!!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 16, 2012, 05:11:25 pm
Yeah, I want my money back!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 16, 2012, 05:13:49 pm
I watched the last 20 minutes - that was enough. Zzzzzzzz!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 16, 2012, 06:53:05 pm
All the action was in the first two hours, which were full-gas - to the point that six riders abandoned. Once a break was finally established, Lotto did try to chase for a bit, but Liquigas couldn't be bothered because Sagan's as good as won the Green jersey, and Orica-Green Edge just couldn't be bothered. Cav's out of contention for the green jersey and besides, Sky weren't going to put themselves out with two hard days in the mountains starting on Wednesday.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 16, 2012, 07:21:53 pm
Has Sagan killed Le Tour?!?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Bledlow on July 16, 2012, 07:42:01 pm
Have any team heads jacked in? If so, there'll be domestiques out for a moment of glory, trying for a long breakaway on a stage where the GC isn't being contested. Sometimes entertaining, especially when they get away with it & win the stage.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 16, 2012, 07:54:37 pm
I do enjoy the succesful breakaway stages ... at least in the "Highlights" form! The Millar stage, Voeckler's uphill sprint (can't remember who won that day?) ... lots of fun.

But if the peleton has NO interest in chasing, it all feels a bit phony. If that makes sense...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 16, 2012, 08:04:52 pm
Two weeks in, and if they are less juiced than in previous years, they'll be knackered. Given the parcours for Wednesday, I'm not surprised that many would prefer to soft-pedal on a transition stage.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 16, 2012, 08:20:24 pm
Have any team heads jacked in? If so, there'll be domestiques out for a moment of glory, trying for a long breakaway on a stage where the GC isn't being contested. Sometimes entertaining, especially when they get away with it & win the stage.

Hesjedal, Martin, Sanchez, Kittel, Westra, Gesink...

So yeah, just a few. Several teams have lost their Plan B too. Evans is clearly below his best, Basso, Scarponi and Frank Schleck were never serious contenders. I don't like to say this detracts from the glory of the likely Wiggins victory but it would be preferable to beat a strong field.

Guess it shows just what a tough race this is.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 16, 2012, 10:12:45 pm
They were definitely taking it easy today. But the more I see, the more I think there's no such thing as easy for them. The distances and mountains combined are simply crazy!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 16, 2012, 10:28:04 pm
They were definitely taking it easy today. But the more I see, the more I think there's no such thing as easy for them. The distances and mountains combined are simply crazy!

Yep. 160k today. Flat, but they've already done 2000k or more, and Wednesday and Thursday are serious mountain stages so I can forgive them for 'taking it easy'! At an average speed of 43kph... !
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 16, 2012, 10:37:27 pm
I think today's stage can be best described as being only "relatively" flat - there was still around 2,500 vertical metres of climbing.

The Inner Ring called it right: (http://inrng.com/2012/07/tour-stage-15/)

Quote
The Race: time is running out for teams to win a stage so expect a furious start with many riders and teams wanting to be in the breakaway. The stage is short meaning the pace should be intense until the elastic finally snaps, either figuratively or when Wiggins pulls down his shorts for a pee, the sign of a patron indicating it’s time to stop chasing.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 17, 2012, 12:06:56 am
I like the full Jens Voigt interview.
http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/news/cult-cycling-hero-jens-voigt-talks-to-ned-boulting/
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 17, 2012, 12:25:49 am
Thanks for that!  I do hope he is right.  But right or wrong, I could listen to him for hours.  They should strike a special medal for him; he even hinted at it himself!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Feline on July 17, 2012, 12:37:13 am
I like the full Jens Voigt interview.
http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/news/cult-cycling-hero-jens-voigt-talks-to-ned-boulting/

 :thumbsup: Excellent!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Domestique on July 17, 2012, 06:23:35 am
Quote
Pete Geyer ‏@cyclingfans
4 press/media vehicles kicked out of the Tour de France (3 for speeding, 1 alcohol related). (L'Equipe)

With all the Police around as well, madness.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 17, 2012, 10:31:37 am
Love that Jens interview.  :thumbsup:

I think today's stage can be best described as being only "relatively" flat - there was still around 2,500 vertical metres of climbing.

The Inner Ring called it right: (http://inrng.com/2012/07/tour-stage-15/)

Quote
The Race: time is running out for teams to win a stage so expect a furious start with many riders and teams wanting to be in the breakaway. The stage is short meaning the pace should be intense until the elastic finally snaps, either figuratively or when Wiggins pulls down his shorts for a pee, the sign of a patron indicating it’s time to stop chasing.

It was an odd stage in that all the excitement was in the first half, with the break trying to form and the peloton. Sky kept trying to put the lid on it and allow the break to get away, but as Inrng and others said, teams were always going to continue to attack while they didn't have a rider in the ecape group - hence Saxo only easing off once Niki Sorensen had got across the gap.

You can't blame the peloton for taking it relatively easy - especially if more of them are riding clean than in previous years. They must be completely knackered.

Only another 500 miles to Paris...

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 17, 2012, 12:54:44 pm
Jens seems remarkable in that he's very likeable without being bland. Many successful sportsmen come across as either arrogantly super-concentrated or totally characterless; perhaps it's his character which stops him being more successful?! I didn't realise he was born in the DDR - he was 18 when the Wall fell, so too young to have been involved in the machine himself, but he must know a bit about doping! And according to various studies which show Germans from the East are more cooperative etc than those from the West, maybe we can say he has an East German character?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rafletcher on July 17, 2012, 01:07:10 pm
Jens seems remarkable in that he's very likeable without being bland. Many successful sportsmen come across as either arrogantly super-concentrated or totally characterless; perhaps it's his character which stops him being more successful?! I didn't realise he was born in the DDR - he was 18 when the Wall fell, so too young to have been involved in the machine himself, but he must know a bit about doping! And according to various studies which show Germans from the East are more cooperative etc than those from the West, maybe we can say he has an East German character?

I'm not having a pop at Jens (he's getting paid regularly by Leopard because he doesn't try a dodge taxes by getting part of his salary paid to offshore banks in "image rights" - unlike the Schleck and Fulsgang), but the East German system started waaaay before the age of 18 - by that age they were sucesses or already dumped.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 17, 2012, 01:10:49 pm
Jens is the archetypal 'Man of the Tour', he is essentially the riders shop steward. It's success enough to get round the Tour, and Jens' aim is to make it possible for the largest number of riders to finish. The organisers want a spectacle, which is provided by the sprinters and the climbers. Jens is a rouleur, who can chase down breaks and participate in those breaks himself. The true test of the rouleur/time triallist is the Duo Normand, Jens has won that twice, once with Chris Boardman and once with Jonathan Vaughters, now manager of the Garmin/Sharp team. Boardman won that event three times and Wiggins has won it once. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duo_Normand
It's interesting that Jens brought his hand to his face when he was saying that it was a clean tour, but he does have to protect those he represents,
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 17, 2012, 02:49:03 pm
Forgot to mention this before but this week's Sunday Telegraph used a fantastic pic in its Tour coverage - we've discussed before the fact that cycling fans don't have the same tribal allegiances as fans of other sports, but the sight of a Brit descending a mountain pass in the yellow jersey closely pursued by a Brit World Champion is enough to bring the patriotic streak out of anyone...

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/race-leader-bradley-wiggins-of-great-britain-and-sky-news-photo/148326713
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ewan Houzami on July 17, 2012, 04:48:18 pm
Somebody somewhere upthread mentioned a meet-up in Look Mum No Hands either tomorrow or Thurs. Is there any interest still?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 17, 2012, 05:47:07 pm
It was me. Unlikely to be able to do tomorrow or Thursday (busy days at work) but I can probably do Friday. Shame that Friday isn't nearly so interesting a stage.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ewan Houzami on July 17, 2012, 06:56:33 pm
I might take a mosey up around tomorrow lunchtime. Hope it won't be too rammed.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Dibdib on July 17, 2012, 07:56:53 pm
Apologies if it's been posted elsewhere already, but it doesn't look good for Schleck...

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12427/Frank-Schleck-tests-positive-for-banned-diuretic-UCI-wants-him-to-leave-Tour-de-France.aspx
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 17, 2012, 08:20:53 pm
Chapeau to ITV4's TdF coverage vision engineer, apparently he rode up the Col du Tourmalet on a Brommie - 'kin' hardcore!  :o :thumbsup:

http://twitter.com/nedboulting/status/225294117788332032/photo/1
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 17, 2012, 09:08:46 pm
Apologies if it's been posted elsewhere already, but it doesn't look good for Schleck...

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12427/Frank-Schleck-tests-positive-for-banned-diuretic-UCI-wants-him-to-leave-Tour-de-France.aspx

Oh no.  Not again.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 17, 2012, 09:47:19 pm
Well, 2 cases so far. Any bets on the final total?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimO on July 17, 2012, 10:17:01 pm
The recent days riding haven't been the most exciting of this tour, but to be fair, the first couple of weeks were exceptional.  We've got to the point now, that Sagan is pretty solidly in Green, and Wiggins in Yellow, so it's unlikely that many of the teams are going to push things that hard, because they've got little chance of getting anywhere, unless something like an accident takes out one of the leaders.  Even then, for teams who don't have a second or third placed contender, they've got little incentive.  Of course, some teams will still try and get a stage win, especially if they've lost their team leader anyway, since it'll get them coverage which they're not going to get from winning an overall jersey.

The King of the Mountains seems less certainly decided, and the last couple of days haven't had a vast number of points for that.  Wednesday and Thursday are going to be somewhat killers of stages in the Mountains, so the polka dot jersey could still be won and lost.  For the same reason, many of the teams were also clearly taking it easier, leading up to the rest day, because they knew after that, there would be some very hard days, before the last few flatish stages, and the time trial.

I think there's still going to be some interesting riding in the mountains, it always splits the ride up more than the mass of the peloton storming along on the flat stages.  It's easier for someone who is a good enough climber to jump away from the group he's in, and try and get to the front, or just gain some time or points on a rival.  It also shows up anyone who has any issues with fitness, injures, or illness, since they can just drop off of the back of the race, and at this point in the tour, they'll have so much less effort available, that it can amplify the differences.

There's definitely some good days coming up. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 17, 2012, 10:28:19 pm
Apologies if it's been posted elsewhere already, but it doesn't look good for Schleck...

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12427/Frank-Schleck-tests-positive-for-banned-diuretic-UCI-wants-him-to-leave-Tour-de-France.aspx

My thoughts (which you are welcome to ignore):

1. His performance has been relatively poor. If he has been doping (speaking as one who takes diuretics daily to keep blood pressure down) it wasn't much use.
2. He was called in at the last minute to replace his injured brother and may have been unable to get drugs out of his system which may have been "legal" to use out of competition. The inverted commas are there because the anti-drugs regime in sport is not exactly justice (and especially not British justice), more a case of judgment by a committee of bounding marsupials.
3. I really feel for Jens Voigt, the nicest man in the peloton, who has just said there is less in the way of drugs this year (an opinion with which I concur, bearing in mind the closeness of the competition and the explanability of Sky's dominance).
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 17, 2012, 10:28:48 pm
Well, 2 cases so far. Any bets on the final total?

Two.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 17, 2012, 10:31:54 pm
We'll have to wait 8 years to get the correct total.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 17, 2012, 10:37:16 pm
We'll have to wait 8 years to get the correct total.

That'll be after the rules have been changed by the committee of marsupials several times.

Eight years as in athletics (or physical jerks, as I call it)? When do we find out about the dopers in association football and tennis (although in association football, the dope is likely to be far from performance-enhancing)?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 17, 2012, 10:42:46 pm
Nobody in tennis and soccer wants to actually catch dopers, so never, I guess.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 17, 2012, 10:48:37 pm
Nobody in tennis and soccer wants to actually catch dopers, so never, I guess.

That's one reason I follow pro cycling whenever I can steal live footage, only watch football if it's free to air and Arsenal or England are involved (and then only if Mrs Honest hasn't offered to take me out to eat Expensive Food) and regard tennis as one of the minor works of the Evil One on one of his off-days when he let his 11-year-old daughter take over.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 18, 2012, 01:03:50 am
No one has tested positive for a banned substance on this Tour yet. Di Gregorio was caught in possession of illegal equipment and Schleck has tested positive for a "specified" substance, not a prohibited one - he wasn't even thrown off the Tour by the organisers, his team withdrew him.

I'm kind of pleased that the sport is punishing such suspicious behaviour based on the probably very fair assumption that there's no smoke without fire, but also kind of disappointed that even in these cases where they have good grounds to suspect doping, they can't get a positive test.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rafletcher on July 18, 2012, 07:47:40 am
Nobody in tennis and soccer wants to actually catch dopers, so never, I guess.

Not true, at least in tennis, but those caught in tennis so far are minor players way down the rankings, and who in the UK (other than tennis afficianados) cares? My stepson is an ex-county player, follows the game very closely, and could no doubt give me details if I cared enough to ask. I guess the diference is that in cycling a lot of the top ranking (ie grand tour) riders are believed by many in and out of the sport to be doping. That level of suspicion just isn't there in other sports. because it's probably not true of other sports - few if any of which involve the constant high level physical activity of (road) cycling.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 18, 2012, 07:50:43 am
Did you look at the occupations of sportspeople in Operacion Puerto? That was a long time ago and I doubt that the high level doping in other sports has diminished?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rafletcher on July 18, 2012, 08:01:13 am
Nope, but you referred to tennis, of which I have a little knowledge, and that's what my answer was about. The rest was pure conjecture (on my part) - as is (IMO) most talk about doping on these fora  ;)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 18, 2012, 08:17:30 am
There were soccer and tennis players in Operation Puerto, about half of the clients of the doping operation were cyclists. If you don't look, you don't find, don't prosecute and you can then proclaim that <your sport> is clean.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Steph on July 18, 2012, 09:16:18 am
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/3176004.stm

There are others.

Back to the Tour, I was in France for a week, and read the local papers each day. Oddly, the Tour was dominated by Evans, the Schleck in question and a few other French, Eastern European and Benelux riders. I wasn't informed if any Brits were riding, or rather not unless I looked at the general classification table. I have just read Liberation's on-line edition, and in there they appear to slag off the Sky team for being too 'mechanical'in their approach, and they long for the return of (long list of adjectives) party people. Real cyclists, heroes, perhaps like Richard Virenq.....oops.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: road-runner on July 18, 2012, 09:32:55 am
What happened to the TdF 2012 topic about the race? Discussion of drugs is now here and in the drugs topic:

Drugs. A good thing for Le Tour 2012? (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=61236.0)

Could you guys please move to the other topic and let the rest of us talk about the race here in the race topic? Thanks, that's much appreciated.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 18, 2012, 09:37:08 am
Doping is rife in golf, baseball, American football, association football, swimming, tennis... And plenty of other sports.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 18, 2012, 09:52:13 am
Sky's whole style is highly technical, they've left no stone unturned to get where they are. I was on holiday last week with a top sports physio, and she'd given Sky a talk on musculo-skeletal issues. I had to spend some time explaining cycle racing tactics, and why some riders might benefit from upper body development and others might not.
This morning Bradley was on the radio saying that he knew exactly what the had to do, which was to produce 400 watts on every critical climb. I know what that means, and I know why it's a good way of managing the anxiety of the man in Yellow, breaking the problem down into doable segments. But it is nearer to a turbo trainer race than to a swashbuckling spectacle. Barring the unpredicted, the climax of this Tour is the final TT, which is like watching paint dry for the average casual viewer. I'll be at the 24 hour myself, which is like watching paint dry for a whole day, so I find it difficult to identify with the attention span of the average viewer, who would most like to see lots of suffering on steep climbs, or 10 seconds of a final sprint.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Wowbagger on July 18, 2012, 10:01:37 am
So is ESL saying that Bradley Wiggins is the Geoffrey Boycott of cycling? ;)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 18, 2012, 10:18:53 am
So is ESL saying that Bradley Wiggins is the Geoffrey Boycott of cycling? ;)

Pretty much. And if he's not careful, Chris Froome will deliberately run him out!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 18, 2012, 10:21:14 am
What happened to the TdF 2012 topic about the race?

It was a rest day yesterday, on which the most significant story relating to the race was Frank Schleck testing positive for a specified substance. What do you expect us to talk about?

Anyway, D-day for Sky today. The excitement of the racing should drown out tangential talk. Squeeeeeee!  ;D

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 18, 2012, 10:24:06 am

Back to the Tour, I was in France for a week, and read the local papers each day. Oddly, the Tour was dominated by Evans, the Schleck in question and a few other French, Eastern European and Benelux riders. I wasn't informed if any Brits were riding, or rather not unless I looked at the general classification table. I have just read Liberation's on-line edition, and in there they appear to slag off the Sky team for being too 'mechanical'in their approach, and they long for the return of (long list of adjectives) party people. Real cyclists, heroes, perhaps like Richard Virenq.....oops.

However, if it were Europcar, Cofidis, FDJ BigMat or one of the other French teams that had developed this strategy and were benefitting from it by having their main (French) man in yellow and another French rider on the second podium spot, the French media would declare the strategy was being employed with panache.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 18, 2012, 10:26:59 am
History may show that all previous "swashbuckling spectacles" were drug-fuelled.

Nibali's such attempts have all been reeled-in by SKY's constant 400 Watt approach.

Brailsford and team know precisely what a "clean" cyclist is able to do and therefore what their boys need to do to counter it.

I suppose it could be considered a bit "Boycottish" but it's in our nature to complain that we never win anything and then complain that, when we do win something, it wasn't won in the correct way.

I'm positive Wiggins could give it more on the climbs if he was 30 seconds behind the leader but why would he risk it from his current position? Of course any Wiggins attack would be a slow cranking up of the pace rather than a sudden sprint but I quite enjoy watching riders falling off the back of the SKY train as they crank it up and up and up...



Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 18, 2012, 10:32:30 am
So is ESL saying that Bradley Wiggins is the Geoffrey Boycott of cycling? ;)
So is ESL saying that Bradley Wiggins is the Geoffrey Boycott of cycling? ;)

Pretty much. And if he's not careful, Chris Froome will deliberately run him out!

That's pretty much what I was going to say, Froome and Wiggins are in a partnership, Wiggins can win the match with a carefully calculated run rate, but Froome could hit some attractive sixes, which would be more fun, but is risky. My Physio friend has a strong Rugby background, working for South Africa Rugby and Western Province Stormers. http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/helen-millson/b/762/ba
Sky could be said to be a lot like an English test side, with a strong colonial presence.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on July 18, 2012, 10:41:08 am
History may show that all previous "swashbuckling spectacles" were drug-fuelled.

Not necessarily.

The shortest time to complete  each stage will be achieved by riding it like a team time trial.

However, if a rider can goad the nearest rival into exhausting themselves, then they can win the stage by 'swashbuckling'. This is the spectacle that the French love. Many of the 'greats' of the past were masters at this, producing entertainment and great sporting spectacles.

LA showed that the 'scientific' approach can be used  to consistently win.

Wiggo needs to hold his nerve and he can win.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 18, 2012, 10:44:33 am
LA showed that systematic doping of the entire team consistently wins the TdF.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 18, 2012, 10:52:31 am
LA showed that systematic doping of the entire team consistently wins the TdF.

Yes, yes... we get the message. Any chance of changing the record?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 18, 2012, 10:53:35 am
If science is to be inextricably involved in the TdeF could I suggest we have a team cloned from Jens Voigt?  Then we could have suicidal attacks, spectacular (non-fatal) crashes, and epic failures, every day followed by witty interviews in our own language with added SMILES!  This is what the British viewer wants, surely?  He is superb.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 18, 2012, 10:58:33 am
I reckon that Wiggins will have been inspired by Evans' win last year. I think he's more of a worrier than his image portrays. He has incredibly deep frown lines above his nose, which are concealed with a strategic placing of a baseball cap.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Bradley_Wiggins_CD_2011.jpg/220px-Bradley_Wiggins_CD_2011.jpg)
The psychology of getting Evans through last year's Tour was impressive. I'd like to know who Wiggins' room mate is. Hincapie was paired with Evans last year, like having a donkey in a field with thoroughbred racehorses to calm them down. I took a look at Hincapie's profile and he's the same height and weight as Wiggins.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 18, 2012, 11:24:08 am
The financial aspects of the Tour make interesting reading. The obvious one being prize money.
http://www.roadcycling.co.nz/TourdeFrance/tour-de-france-demystified-part-2.html
2 miilion Euros are on offer, if Sky get a 1st and 2nd, they will get a third of that. They will also get prizes for other stages. Eddie Merckx was known as 'The Cannibal' because he left no winnings for anyone else. Sky have to be careful not to hog all the limelight, as it would cause resentment. That's why Jens Voigt emphasised the GC focus of Sky in his ITV4 interview.
The benefits for Sky of exposure are obvious. One of the adverts on ITV4 emphasised the quality of the Sky platform for accessing BBC HD coverage of the Olympics.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: JT on July 18, 2012, 11:30:21 am
But all riders wear "podium caps" off the bike, are they all wearing them to conceal their frown lines?

And here's me thinking it was just another way to get a sponsor logo out there.  ;)

I don't think Brad has a roomie - it may have been Siutsou before he crashed out.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 18, 2012, 11:36:20 am
I was wondering how you'd explain the finer points of the Tour to someone who wants to get up to speed, and was quite taken with this New Zealand site.
http://www.roadcycling.co.nz/TourdeFrance/tour-de-france-demystified-part-1.html
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Toady on July 18, 2012, 11:41:56 am
So is ESL saying that Bradley Wiggins is the Geoffrey Boycott of cycling? ;)

Or, if we go back 10 years, Jonny Wilkinson.

Both BW and JW excel in the individual, non-head-to-head aspects of the sport: place kicking and TTs.
Both had African import sidekicks to take the pressure (Catt, Froome).
Both in teams headed up by baldies (Brailsford, Woodward) and relying on relentless crushing of any more enterprising opponents.
And there's the joker,  both teams had a gobby, talented, individual who didn't seem to fit in with the remorsesless crushing method (Cav, Austin Healey).

I rest my case.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 18, 2012, 12:08:49 pm
I might take a mosey up around tomorrow lunchtime. Hope it won't be too rammed.

It will be pretty busy, but should be a great atmosphere. I can hardly concentrate on my work and they haven't even lit the blue touch paper yet. I'm tempted to sneak out and join you...

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Pingu on July 18, 2012, 12:22:33 pm
He has incredibly deep frown lines above his nose, which are concealed with a strategic placing of a baseball cap.

Science in cycling - phrenology  :facepalm: ;)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ewan Houzami on July 18, 2012, 12:40:03 pm
Filling up in lmnh, citoyen! Will prob stay til they crest the tourmalet and then head off.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Dibdib on July 18, 2012, 12:41:06 pm
a strategic placing of a baseball cap.

To be fair, I think the baseball caps are common because not even News Corp are evil enough to insist on a logo tattoo'd onto Wiggins' forehead  ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 18, 2012, 01:13:33 pm
He has incredibly deep frown lines above his nose, which are concealed with a strategic placing of a baseball cap.

Science in cycling - phrenology  :facepalm: ;)

I originally thought they were stress marks. I get them when I'm under pressure. They're fairly common in people with fair skin and reddish hair, and are purplish marks in the same place. They're quite useful in diagnosing how much stress you are under, but a Tour leader requires a 'Poker Face', which was one of Indurain's great advantages, he was pretty much unreadable. If you want to know how to control the effects of frown lines there's a section on the Livestrong site. Lance controlled his stress by a form of controlled paranoia.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/168015-facial-exercise-for-stress-lines-and-wrinkles/
I tend to look at the Tour as similar to contract work in an unpredictable setting, such as a motorway. I've taken on those sort of jobs and woken every morning with a sopping wet pillow. Managing stress forms a big part of the process, so I'm interested in stress management on the Tour.
I was interested in what Bradley said in the Fred Perry article, most focused on the helmet quote, but this interested me.
Quote
The main one was when are you going to get a hair cut?
 Just now, I’ve just had one (for the photo shoot), haha. I find it fascinating that people find my hair fascinating, haha, half the reason why I don’t cut it is because you’re not supposed to have long hair when you’re riding a bike. I’ve always been a bit of a non-conformist, I’m a bit of an anarchist at heart.
 
Following on from that, what’s up with the long black socks…
 Haha, that’s another thing, yeah. Again, it’s tradition to wear white socks so I like to wear black, it’s good to be different. The more people that bang on about it the more I want to do it, haha. But you’ll notice that a lot more people are wearing black socks in the peloton now…
 
Do you think that the pro peloton is a little bit too serious, maybe?
 I don’t think it’s too serious, we all have our own individual characters but I think we’re all different, everybody’s different and it’s good that you can express that through your sport and not just be robotic like everybody else. That’s one of the nice things for me having Fred Perry because I’m not like Daley Thompson in an Adidas tracksuit or a typical sportsman you know? Sitting here now I could be anyone and that’s what’s really nice about it.
Lots of sportsmen are contrary, it's what makes them try harder in adversity, but it makes them hard to manage.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 18, 2012, 01:23:32 pm
Odd that he should have cited Daley Thompson as a typical sportsman!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 18, 2012, 01:28:57 pm
Odd that he should have cited Daley Thompson as a typical sportsman!

He probably wanted to say Chris Hoy, as the sort of conventional hero figure who appears on cornflake packets, but is too diplomatic to say.
It will be harder for Wiggins, as an anorexic Paul Weller fan.

(http://mediaserver.dwpub.com/press-release/7304/Chris+Hoy+and+Bran+Flakes+advert.jpg)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 18, 2012, 01:35:13 pm
a strategic placing of a baseball cap.

not even News Corp are evil enough to insist on a logo tattoo'd onto Wiggins' forehead  ;D

They insist on a "666" tattoo apparently
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: docsquid on July 18, 2012, 01:53:54 pm
On a completely different subject, I do hope Tommy Voeckler enters the world gurning championships once he quits cycling. He is a natural!  Love watching his face.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 18, 2012, 02:05:29 pm
On a completely different subject, I do hope Tommy Voeckler enters the world gurning championships once he quits cycling. He is a natural!  Love watching his face.

The housewives favourite of course, which is an important part of the viewing demographic in France.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 18, 2012, 04:35:05 pm
I can see why Voeckler's been nicknamed "Hollywood". ;D

It will be interesting to see what Brice Feillu's post-stage comments are, I thought he looked pretty unhappy as he crossed the line - I wonder if there had been a deal earlier in the stage that Feillu would let TV take maximum points over each col in return for the stage victory?  :demon:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ewan Houzami on July 18, 2012, 05:05:06 pm
(https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRVs_cQdCQaoxfItpOKMGrPEebna1iMJzQj-fGU_JW0A-cP701uZg)
Bradders

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Yi6r4mzTwKc/Tnk2sofi0kI/AAAAAAAAA98/SmetrW2fTWM/s1600/david+looking+back.jpg)
Nibbles (with Bradders' sidies)

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 18, 2012, 05:30:56 pm
;D

Given how that film ends, I don't think we'd want to see the analogy being stretched too far. ;)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Bledlow on July 18, 2012, 06:08:13 pm
LA showed that the 'scientific' approach can be used  to consistently win.
I thought that was Indurain.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 18, 2012, 07:02:12 pm
I can see why Voeckler's been nicknamed "Hollywood". ;D

It will be interesting to see what Brice Feillu's post-stage comments are, I thought he looked pretty unhappy as he crossed the line - I wonder if there had been a deal earlier in the stage that Feillu would let TV take maximum points over each col in return for the stage victory?  :demon:
Going by his horrendous play-acting record during the Tour, and his incredibly evasive post-race interview, i'd say OUI!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 18, 2012, 08:00:51 pm
Meanwhile, back in the grupetto...

Quote from: Mark Cavendish
Mark Cavendish ‏@MarkCavendish
Today's stage can be put into perspective by the fact that by the end I didn't care that I was just puking over myself. Hills+Heat=Suffering
Quote from: David Millar
David Millar ‏@millarmind
@MarkCavendish We could've been puking on each other and we wouldn't have cared. DZ puked all the way home in the bus. It's just wrong.

 :sick: ;D :sick:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rogerzilla on July 18, 2012, 08:31:18 pm
Wiggers doesn't exactly have the perfect complexion for a sunny day at high altitude, does he?  I imagine he learnt the cardinal rule the hard way, like I did: Never Apply Sun Cream Above Eye Level If You're Going To Sweat.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: road-runner on July 18, 2012, 08:35:06 pm
Never Apply Sun Cream Above Eye Level If You're Going To Sweat.

... unless it is P20.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: twiddler on July 18, 2012, 09:19:10 pm
Waiting for the highlights and trying to dodge tour info i happened to read this Inner Ring tweet, "Voeckler. No race radio, no power meter, no heart rate monitor. Not even a computer on the handlebars to show speed and distance."

Suspecting i'd got more than a whiff of the outcome didn't detract from another fine show by Tommy, winning with elan, and contrasting well against Sky's contolled domination approach.
Personally i enjoy both but for different reasons, one for sheer all-out determination and the other for openly outlining a strategy and goal  from a long way out and then making it reality over an extended period of time.  Both require great efforts to acheive.

But it got me wondering where does the tour go from here?

Some other teams are looking at replicating some of team Sky's techniques, there is no reason to think that other teams couldn't replicate Sky's entire approach successfully, to some degree though one assumes that the effectiveness of that team would relate to the raw talent available, which in part is determined by each team's budget.  Presumably the consequence would be an even more finely tuned war of attrition, with each team more closely monitoring rider recovery and available daily energy and directing team strategy accordingly to produce a tour of minimum expenditure (which i believe is what Sky do - except for the TT where it's max sustained output).

Of course there is always individuality and personal ambition serving as drivers to shake things up, but i believe that this is where Sky's team management shows its worth.  Contrast with BMC - Sky's riders are well drilled as a team, hence Cav's super domestique role and Froome's easing off having gapped Brad, now consider Tejay VG's selective deafness at the top of tack hill and his post race interview today which (to me at least) suggested he placed more emphasis on his own results than his team leader's, and that has an effect on the team, both directly and indirectly.  Therefore a well managed team will look to eliminate this self interest in the favour of self sacrifice and will surely seek to repair any schisms through reallocation of resources, according to merit.

Suffice to say i believe the main GC teams, through this consitent elimination of minor losses, would evolve to become ever more strong as a unit and ever more controlling in part through team strength and tactics, but also crucially analysis of data in the race.  And so the opportunities for advantage in the race become increasingly slight as teams become ever more capable of nullifying threats and cancelling each other out.

For this reason i imagined an alternative scenario, based upon the tweet above.  One where the teams have all of these technological options available in training, but not in the race.  Instead a rider must become more attuned to his own body, tactics are determined by the riders on the road based upon what they can see and time checks from the motorbike, rather than being plugged into a DS who has live tv coverage and race radio, and assistants processing ever more detailed data streams. 

I wonder which would make for better cycling, which the better spectacle?  Perhaps there are other possibilities?  Perhaps Tommy's stage wins are only possible because of Sky's tactics?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 18, 2012, 09:41:25 pm
Breaking news... Thomas Voeckler to star in a film biography of Phil Cool (http://www.bikeradar.com/gallery/article/rubber-face-the-tours-most-expressive-man-34659).

Or maybe not. ;)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 18, 2012, 09:44:18 pm
Yeah, I really enjoyed Tommy doing it old skool. It would be great if Wiggins attacked just for the fuck of it tomorrow, but in this modern age of boring your way to victory, I don't hold out much hope...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Karla on July 18, 2012, 10:20:54 pm
Come on Bradders, give us one for old time's sake! (http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/348792/tour-de-france-2007-wiggins-makes-lone-attack-on-stage-six.html)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ewan Houzami on July 18, 2012, 10:24:33 pm
I remember that!

Meanwhile, some wit from the mind of Millar.

https://twitter.com/#!/millarmind/media/slideshow?url=http%3A%2F%2Fyfrog.com%2Fh0bvuomj
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: aregister on July 18, 2012, 10:55:49 pm
Yeah, I really enjoyed Tommy doing it old skool. It would be great if Wiggins attacked just for the fuck of it tomorrow, but in this modern age of boring your way to victory, I don't hold out much hope...
I've been reading a biography of Jacques Anquetil and in some ways the 2012 TdF is not too different from 1961. Anquetli's team (the French team) rode "at a sufficient pace to stifle all attacks." By the time they got to the Pyrenees the press was accusing Anquetil and his team of having "killed the race." Anquetil won a total of 2 stages in '61 - both individual time trials!
I suppose all the jeering he got by the crowds was because back then that type of race was a lot less common.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: benborp on July 18, 2012, 11:15:48 pm
I remember that!

Meanwhile, some wit from the mind of Millar.

https://twitter.com/#!/millarmind/media/slideshow?url=http%3A%2F%2Fyfrog.com%2Fh0bvuomj

Looks like a suitable entry for the 'People who park like fuds' thread.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 18, 2012, 11:58:05 pm
Come on Bradders, give us one for old time's sake! (http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/348792/tour-de-france-2007-wiggins-makes-lone-attack-on-stage-six.html)

I remember his time at Cofidis.
Quote
He won the combativity award on stage six for a long solo breakaway, on the 40th anniversary of British rider Tom Simpson's death at the 1967 Tour de France, and his wife Catherine's birthday. Cofidis withdrew after Cristian Moreni failed a doping test, and Wiggins and his team mates were led away from the Tour by police.[6] In the aftermath of Moreni, and race leader Alexandre Vinokurov's positive drug tests, Wiggins spoke out against dopers at the Tour[7], and threw away his Cofidis kit, vowing never to race for the team again.[

The course this year was designed for rouleurs, so it's not surprising that a rouleur is in the lead. It makes for a less demanding Tour with the Olympics in sight.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Jakob on July 19, 2012, 12:46:18 am
I'm not sure if it's because Sky & Wiggins are so good this year or the rest are crap, but it's the most boring tour in years.
1 half hearted attack in how many days?..and I don't think anything will happen tomorrow either. *Yawn*. At least Voeckler provided some entertainment today.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 19, 2012, 06:49:43 am
I'm not sure if it's because Sky & Wiggins are so good this year or the rest are crap, but it's the most boring tour in years.
1 half hearted attack in how many days?..and I don't think anything will happen tomorrow either. *Yawn*. At least Voeckler provided some entertainment today.

I was about to post something along the same lines.  You've said it for me.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rafletcher on July 19, 2012, 07:44:11 am
I always hated watching the tours Indurain won, but sometimes that's how tours are won. Conversely I always wanted Lance to win. Why did I prefer one dominant force over another? No idea  :)  That's just the way it goes I guess. For some reason I can't warm to Sagan either.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Hillbilly on July 19, 2012, 08:07:01 am
Moaning gits  ;D

This years' tour has inspired me to visit the Vosges mountains, which I've never really considered before.  Plans are being made.  Given the TdF is, in part, run as an advert for France's attractions, I'd say its been successful in my household  :)

(PS: Fingers crossed for Wiggins.  Not an easy stage today)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rafletcher on July 19, 2012, 08:07:16 am
I can see why Voeckler's been nicknamed "Hollywood". ;D

It will be interesting to see what Brice Feillu's post-stage comments are, I thought he looked pretty unhappy as he crossed the line - I wonder if there had been a deal earlier in the stage that Feillu would let TV take maximum points over each col in return for the stage victory?  :demon:
Going by his horrendous play-acting record during the Tour, and his incredibly evasive post-race interview, i'd say OUI!

If Feillu had taken more turns on the front, and just let TV take the lead at the tops, then maybe, but he didn't, he sat on the majority of the time. Chapeau Thomas  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: IanDG on July 19, 2012, 08:07:37 am
I'm not sure if it's because Sky & Wiggins are so good this year or the rest are crap, but it's the most boring tour in years.
1 half hearted attack in how many days?..and I don't think anything will happen tomorrow either. *Yawn*. At least Voeckler provided some entertainment today.

Same old, same old...... Armstrong, Indurain et al. 

Thats the way it seems to be most years now.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 19, 2012, 08:21:34 am
Meanwhile, back in the grupetto...

Quote from: Mark Cavendish
Mark Cavendish ‏@MarkCavendish
Today's stage can be put into perspective by the fact that by the end I didn't care that I was just puking over myself. Hills+Heat=Suffering
Quote from: David Millar
David Millar ‏@millarmind
@MarkCavendish We could've been puking on each other and we wouldn't have cared. DZ puked all the way home in the bus. It's just wrong.
Having read those tweets, the footage of Cav signing autographs at the finish becomes quite impressive (in a quiet way). Great idea; getting a sprinter's autograph at the finish of the toughest mountain stage!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: AndyK on July 19, 2012, 09:34:43 am
Wiggins tests positive (http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2012/07/17/bradley-wiggins-tests-positive-for-quadrophenia/)...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 19, 2012, 09:37:38 am
AndyK, you are a B'stard. My stomach churned briefly till I opened that link ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Giropaul on July 19, 2012, 09:44:19 am
I'm not sure if it's because Sky & Wiggins are so good this year or the rest are crap, but it's the most boring tour in years.
1 half hearted attack in how many days?..and I don't think anything will happen tomorrow either. *Yawn*. At least Voeckler provided some entertainment today.

No, Sky ARE that good (so far at least). You've only got to look at the back of the pelaton where well known riders with good palmares are being shelled out every day. Just because it looks easy on the front doesn't mean it is, or that riders aren't being torn apart.

(one might'of course, mention that some of the breathtaking audacious attacks of yesteryear were very likely "fuelled" in some way!)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 19, 2012, 09:47:46 am
Wiggins tests positive (http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2012/07/17/bradley-wiggins-tests-positive-for-quadrophenia/)...

There are surprisingly few pictures of Brad on a scooter, probably because if you are a 6 foot 3 inch stick insect it doesn't look as cool as he might like. Maybe he could have a specially scaled-up one made with his winnings.

(http://www.bradleywigginsfoundation.org/site/images/stories/wiggo-scooter.jpg)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: tiermat on July 19, 2012, 09:51:42 am
I love this bit:

Quote
Meanwhile several smaller teams have withdrawn into themselves looking for answers, after their riders tested positive for EMO.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: AndyK on July 19, 2012, 09:52:51 am
AndyK, you are a B'stard. My stomach churned briefly till I opened that link ;D

I aim to please.  ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 19, 2012, 10:09:23 am
As an antidote to the coming wave of patriotism, I've been trying to remember who the last stage winner born in Great Britain was, not including prologues. I'm wondering if it was Max Sciandri in 1995, stage 11.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rafletcher on July 19, 2012, 10:54:05 am
I think you're right  ;)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mcshroom on July 19, 2012, 11:04:44 am
As an antidote to the coming wave of patriotism, I've been trying to remember who the last stage winner born in Great Britain was, not including prologues. I'm wondering if it was Max Sciandri in 1995, stage 11.

Why some people always so obsessed with trying to decry any British sportsperson who's sucessful as not British or as having learnt everything in Australia (cricketers, rugby players)/Spain (Andy Murray) etc?

For example Cavendish comes from a BOT and is a British Citizen as is any other person born on the IoM (therefore I would contend British born ;)), Millar was born in Malta because his Dad was stationed there in the RAF. It doesn't really matter about nationality as this is not a national sport anyway, but as much as I find the petty patriotism an annoyance, petty anti-patriotism (as in against the patriotism, not any other meaning) seems to me to be just as annoying.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 19, 2012, 12:10:27 pm
Strangely the phenomenon of decrying British "winners" as non-British, because of their parentage/place of birth, only seems to target white athletes.

Is this because it would appear racist to use the same arguments against, for example, Linford Christie (born in Jamaica, to Jamaican parents) or Daley Thompson (Nigerian father)?

If someone has a British passport, says they are British and competes for Britain then, in my mind, they are British.

No Aussie is going to say they are British if they aren't (despite Cadel and Lance probably being descended from Brits).

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Somnolent on July 19, 2012, 01:55:29 pm
I think some of these quieter patches are crying out for viewers to send cake in to David Harmon and Sean Kelly, a la Test Match Special...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 19, 2012, 01:59:33 pm
...petty anti-patriotism ... seems to me to be just as annoying.

^ That

Strangely the phenomenon of decrying British "winners" as non-British, because of their parentage/place of birth, only seems to target white athletes.

^ And that

I don't know why ESL has such an obbsession with this. No thread about bicycle racing is complete without it being brought up again. And again. And again  ::-)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Eccentrica Gallumbits on July 19, 2012, 02:30:19 pm
I've done nothing but moan about Johnny Hoogerland for the last two weeks, as I have him in the fantasy tour and I was beginning to wonder if he was doing it on foot, but bobb texted me to say he's shown up today and is doing something.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: tiermat on July 19, 2012, 02:33:52 pm
The racing seems better today, no 10's of minutes gap and attacks for the KOTM etc.

Shame about the crash with Cav, Froome and Porte.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 19, 2012, 04:16:39 pm
Absolutely fantastic stage! I was on my feet shouting at the telly at the end!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Tewdric on July 19, 2012, 04:17:01 pm
Epic stuff- looks like another 18s or so put into Nibali.

Froome could have taken the yellow though as far as I could judge.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 19, 2012, 04:18:10 pm
Maybe he could, but he's a very loyal man who knows his job. He'll get his chance, I have absolutely no doubt.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 19, 2012, 04:21:04 pm
They left it too late. The fools!

Who knows what Froome could've done? I hope - to save any embarrassment - Wiggins wins the time trial by an enormous margin...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 19, 2012, 04:21:56 pm
Epic stuff- looks like another 18s or so put into Nibali.

Froome could have taken the yellow though as far as I could judge.

I never thought they'd break Nibali.  Just shows how dominant Wiggins and Froome have been.

Froome must be odds-on for next year, especially if he stays in a SKY team like this.  Potentially they could tow him up 80% of the big climbs and then let him attack the final 20%.  Hard to imagine anyone staying with him.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 19, 2012, 04:47:26 pm
It all seems a bit artificial:  there's no denying that Bradley is an exceptional rider, probably even the second best in this year's race.  Obviously, it was decided that, come what may, the team would ride for him.  But I think it would have been a much better spectacle if they had waited to see who seemed stronger (Froome) and gone with that.  He did a good time trial and I think he sould easily have won this tour by at least ten minutes, which would still have been a British victory.  I think they are being a bit hard on the spectators with these tactics.  Maybe the TT will prove me wrong.

What does the team think?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 19, 2012, 04:51:31 pm
Possibly right. But by ten minutes!?  :o

We just don't know what would have happened if Froome was allowed to go on the stages where he looked strong. He might've blown up for all we know. And Wiggins may have actually put some effort in and not lost much time....

Edit: Pretty much x-post with above...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on July 19, 2012, 04:52:28 pm
I think that given the care that went into preparation, either they knew that Froome is stronger, or in training he wasn't stronger.

Their tactics have been very carefully worked out, down to precise power output on climbs, per rider.

It may be they had to pick one lead rider and stick with them, but are keeping the 'reserve' close enough to yellow that they can take over and still have the team win if Wiggo crashed or cracked.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 19, 2012, 04:53:14 pm
What does the team think?

Team... that's definitely the mot juste.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 19, 2012, 04:53:29 pm
You could all be right,  but I crave excitement! 
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Hillbilly on July 19, 2012, 04:54:06 pm
It's impossible to know.  Left to his own devices, I suspect Froome would have had at least one bad day in the mountains as he wiped out his reserves of energy through over-enthusiasm.  I also suspect Froome+Wiggins ignores the impact of Rogers + Porte, who would have had split loyalty and so make the overall Sky effort less efficient in the hypothetical scenario.

Once the decision was made to push for Wiggins' win, it was the sensible thing to stick with that sole focus.  Otherwise, it ran the risk of no Brits on the top step of the podium.

All in my opinion.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: matthew on July 19, 2012, 04:58:14 pm
Wiggins went into the tour as team leader and Froome as number two. Should Wiggins have crashed out Froome would take over. Sky will have agreed this and Froome known this from months before the tour.

As it is Sky have dominated som much they have both No. 1 and No. 2 on the leader board and could have chosen which rider wears yellow.

Instead of critisising Sky for 'holding back' Froome I'm happy to celibrate the British domination.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 19, 2012, 05:03:06 pm
I think that given the care that went into preparation, either they knew that Froome is stronger, or in training he wasn't stronger.

Their tactics have been very carefully worked out, down to precise power output on climbs, per rider.

It may be they had to pick one lead rider and stick with them, but are keeping the 'reserve' close enough to yellow that they can take over and still have the team win if Wiggo crashed or cracked.
Exactly right. Sky don't do 'let's see what happens'. This is Bradley's Tour because it's heavy on TTs and he's the better TT rider. Froome is - marginally - better in the mountains, but Bradley is over 2 minutes ahead of him for a bloody good reason. If the parcours had favoured climbers, maybe Froome would have been leader. Next time, he might be. But this is Sky's call and Bradley's the selected leader.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Gus on July 19, 2012, 05:12:41 pm
D***n it Chris anker sørensen needs surgery after he got two fingers in the front wheel during a decent (another rider dropped a newspaper that got into his wheel and he tried to remove it "Phil- style") . Looks like he is out of the race.  :(
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 19, 2012, 05:12:58 pm
Matthew, I wasn't criticising Sky at all; they obviously know what they are doing to such an extent that they are completely in charge of the TdeF whereas I am posting on a cycling forum (along with others)!  I'm not sure about the "blowing up" argument unless he was silly.  After all, he's been working for Wiggins rather than the other way round and he's still up there and rearing to go.  The race goes to the person with the smallest aggregate time.  I think Froome could have done that, this year, but again that is not a criticism.  I just think it would have been more exciting.  This in no way diminishes Sky's achievement, it just makes it different.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rogerzilla on July 19, 2012, 05:46:14 pm
Is it just me who finds the last stage boring and anti-climactic?  I think they should do a Lemond/Fignon TT on the last day again.  Anyway, Wiggers has it now if he doesn't fall off.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 19, 2012, 05:49:07 pm
Wiggins admitted to losing concentration once he saw that Nibali was cracking, and temporarily forgot about "all that performance crap". To me, it looked like Froome was trying to egg him on/ keep him going further up the Peyregudes climb, because Wiggo might have slightly overcooked it when they dropped everyone else. Note how Pinot and Nibali were starting to work their way back up to the Sky pair nearer the finish. Wiggins and Froome know what the deal is, this year is probably Wiggins' last best chance for the TdF, and he reiterated that he's happy to ride for Froome, so I'd imagine that Sky will have a plan for La Vuelta, learning from their mistakes last year, when they switched leadership roles too late in the race.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: matthew on July 19, 2012, 05:54:26 pm
Is it just me who finds the last stage boring and anti-climactic?  I think they should do a Lemond/Fignon TT on the last day again.  Anyway, Wiggers has it now if he doesn't fall off.

Agreed with the exception of the final sprint in Paris, the last stage is a boring lap of honour style ride. However the reason for the TT on the penultimate day is to lengthen the interest unless a TT specialist shows he can also climb with the best. Hence last year Evans took the lead on the final TT.

Also the Sprinters Union would call a strike if it became a regular event to hold a TT on the last day into Paris.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 19, 2012, 05:55:44 pm
If they did "let's see what happens" then they'd have ended up exactly where they are now: Wiggo would be 2 minutes up by virtue of the TTs

Only 44 seconds of Wiggins' lead over Froome is from the TTs. The rest was due to Froome having a flat near the finish of stage 1!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 19, 2012, 05:56:16 pm
Wiggins admitted to losing concentration once he saw that Nibali was cracking, and temporarily forgot about "all that performance crap". To me, it looked like Froome was trying to egg him on/ keep him going further up the Peyregudes climb, because Wiggo might have slightly overcooked it when they dropped everyone else. Note how Pinot and Nibali were starting to work their way back up to the Sky pair nearer the finish. Wiggins and Froome know what the deal is, this year is probably Wiggins' last best chance for the TdF, and he reiterated that he's happy to ride for Froome, so I'd imagine that Sky will have a plan for La Vuelta, learning from their mistakes last year, when they switched leadership roles too late in the race.

I think you're right, Spesh. I somehow doubt Wiggins will get another chance to lead a Grand Tour with Sky, though I'm sure he will win lots of other stuff. I could easily see the roles reversed next year. I can't imagine Wiggo will ride the Vuelta ths year; I expect he'll want sometime off after the Tour and the Olympics.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rhys W on July 19, 2012, 06:10:19 pm
Yes, I think he had a go at the Vuelta last year to salvage something after breaking his collarbone. This will be 4th yellow jersey this year, and Sky have plenty of talent wanting to be Froome's domestiques if they get the chance.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Dibdib on July 19, 2012, 06:15:53 pm
What's surprised me most is that Froome has been able to keep up this level of performance. He's clearly strong, but I incorrectly guessed that he would be able to crucify himself to drag Wiggins through the Alps, then chill out through the Pyrenees and let others on the team pick up the burden. In contrast, Wiggins would need the "performance crap" to stay on the front through the whole tour, as well as keeping enough in reserve to chase down any threats if they arise.

Obviously that isn't quite what has happened, and yeah I've got to wonder whether if left to push on his own, Froome could have outperformed Wiggo. My guess is still not (as others have said, Sky have pretty much done the maths on everything) but we'll never know for sure.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: jogler on July 19, 2012, 06:40:15 pm
I do not care wether Wiggins or Froome wins.If a British cyclist wins it,riding in a British team,that's good enough.
Such a notion was preposterous 5 years ago.
AIUI a win would be 2 years into a 5 year plan.Makes another win not entirely unrealistic.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 19, 2012, 06:58:40 pm
Absolutely. 2 years into a 5-year plan, they look odds-on for a Brit 1-2. That is phenomenal! And they must be contenders for anything else they choose to attempt. What a change from anything that's gone before. Boring and efficient it may be, but ruthless crushing of the opposition is always my preferred style, and gives reasonable prospects for them being a long-term top-flight team.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Analog Kid on July 19, 2012, 07:15:26 pm
I'm so excited I have to stop myselfv thinking about it - a Brit winning the Tour? - wow!

Fingers crossed the wheels don't fall off before Sunday.

Be interesting to see if David Millar ends up in the Cav lead out train on Sunday .

Oh and have Sky redefined  "Tempo Riding" ? Can't remember seeing another team do it consistently UP hill.

C'mon Brad....
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rogerzilla on July 19, 2012, 07:15:51 pm
I do not care wether Wiggins or Froome wins.If a British cyclist wins it,riding in a British team
Bankrolled by a currently unpopular Australian/American media mogul  ;)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 19, 2012, 07:17:35 pm
Yes, that's always knocked a bit of shine off it for me, but it's still a feel-good thing.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Wowbagger on July 19, 2012, 07:22:21 pm
I don't think he will be properly accepted by the French until he calls himself Ouiggeaux.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: jogler on July 19, 2012, 07:27:55 pm
Only a Frenchman will be properly accepted as a genuine TdF winner by the French.
The French reckon any other nationality winner is on the zoomzoomstuff.They are the world's worst sour grapes merchants.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Eccentrica Gallumbits on July 19, 2012, 07:33:27 pm
Strangely the phenomenon of decrying British "winners" as non-British, because of their parentage/place of birth, only seems to target white athletes.

Is this because it would appear racist to use the same arguments against, for example, Linford Christie (born in Jamaica, to Jamaican parents) or Daley Thompson (Nigerian father)?
I think it's because Daley Thompson's mother is Scottish and as he kept winning, he was obviously British.  ::-) ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rogerzilla on July 19, 2012, 07:53:35 pm
Only a Frenchman will be properly accepted as a genuine TdF winner by the French.
The French reckon any other nationality winner is on the zoomzoomstuff.
Not like Richard Virenque, their most successful temporarily successful rider of recent times, then.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 19, 2012, 08:11:38 pm
Effectively neutralising the final stage ensures that they get an exciting finish - and come on, the final sprint on the champs élysées is one of the most exciting sights in pro cycling. If GC were still at stake, the final stage would be a much cagier affair.

Also, I want to see Brad playing a full part in the leadout for Cav. First, because he owes him one, and second, because it'll be good practice for the Olympics. You could add: third, the prospect of a Brit in the yellow jersey heading the peloton on the final charge down the champs élysées... I'm getting goosebumps just imagining it.

d.
 
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimO on July 19, 2012, 08:17:29 pm
I guess it's now mostly just about staying safe until they hit the final line, but with the TT I suppose that to an extent, they can just open up and hammer it, so long as they don't use up so much energy that they haven't got anything left for the last day.  Indeed, they can't take it too easy, or they could loose time to someone, that could be useful if something went wrong on the final run into Paris.

You can make lots of what-if's about whether Froome could have gone into Yellow, or for that matter whether someone else would have done if Froome wasn't helping Wiggins, but you really don't know what impact additional pressure would have on people.  As it is, the chances are that Sky is going to get 1st and 2nd place on the podium for the GC, which is pretty damned spectacular. ;D

Thomas Voeckler completely dominated the King of the Mountains today, somewhat impressively, making sure that Kessiakoff had no chance of gaining any more points than he couldn't stop him from getting.  That was pretty spectacular as well.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 19, 2012, 10:25:01 pm
...petty anti-patriotism ... seems to me to be just as annoying.

^ That

Strangely the phenomenon of decrying British "winners" as non-British, because of their parentage/place of birth, only seems to target white athletes.

^ And that

I don't know why ESL has such an obbsession with this. No thread about bicycle racing is complete without it being brought up again. And again. And again  ::-)

I have trouble with nationalistic pride because I'm at heart a parochial internationalist. I was brought up to abhor the national distinctions that brought about the World Wars, but to take pride in my local area. So I quite like headlines like this, http://www.wirefm.com/news/local/chorley-man-leads-tour-de-france/ obviously Bradley has been comfortable for the 10 years he has lived in the North West, and has even organised a sportive for others to share the training routes which have shaped a champion. 
Quote
About the Ride With Brad Sportive August 19th 2012
 


 
 
Ride with Bradley Wiggins in Aid of the Bradley Wiggins Foundation
 
 
 
"Come and join me on a challenging ride through the stunning Lancashire countryside and experience the roads and climbs I regularly train on.  This brand new event has been specially organised to help celebrate the launch of the Bradley Wiggins Foundation.  I look forward to welcoming you all and riding alongside many of you on what will be a special day for all the family."
 
Bradley Wiggins CBE
http://www.bradleywigginsfoundation.org/site/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=42&Itemid=27

It's all good fun, claiming a piece of a champion, and everyone from The Daily Mail to the Ghent local papers will be taking a bit of Brad. But his team is as much Australian as British, with a touch of Norwegian. The technical part of it is based in Belgium, and the money comes from transnational high capitalism. The bit that interests me is 'Chorley Man Wins Tour de France' and I will treasure my souvenir copy of the Chorley Guardian.

Can anyone name the rider who was born in Great Britain who is riding the Tour?

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mcshroom on July 19, 2012, 10:31:45 pm
If you are so sold on internationalism, why such a hangup about birth location?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Veloman on July 19, 2012, 10:32:40 pm
Daniel Martin

Born 20 August 1986, in Birmingham.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 19, 2012, 10:34:28 pm
Can anyone name the rider who was born in Great Britain who is riding the Tour?

Steve Cummings. Your point?

d.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 19, 2012, 10:35:49 pm
Daniel Martin

Born 20 August 1986, in Birmingham.

Of course, forgot about him. So that means neither Irish rider in the race was born in Ireland. Funny.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 19, 2012, 10:36:26 pm
If you are so sold on internationalism, why such a hangup about birth location?

I've already said that I'm also parochial. There's only one person riding the Tour who was born somewhere I can ride to without taking a ferry, or the Eurotunnel. Obviously I could fly, but that seems to be frowned on.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 19, 2012, 10:36:48 pm
There is nothing wrong with a bit of gentle patriotism. It is not the same thing as nationalism.

As for taking pride on your local area - what's the difference? That's just localised patriotism!

Anyway, your views on this are well known. I don't see why you feel the need to repeat them in every single thread in Racing.

Why not start a new thread on it? It would save polluting every other thread with this nonsense  :P
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: clarion on July 19, 2012, 10:43:02 pm
It is a bit dull.  Yes, it's exciting that there may be not only a first British winner, but a one-two.  Historic, even.  But I think I would be equally impressed with any rider dominating the race like this with strong riding in his specialty and in his weaker parts of the discipline, so long as it wasn't Landisly outrageous.

I'm among the least patriotic or nationalist (though very proud of my region), but even I am finding this repeated nitpicking pedantry rather tedious.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 19, 2012, 10:43:25 pm
Daniel Martin

Born 20 August 1986, in Birmingham.
I must admit I'd missed that one,
It's almost as good as Michael Wright,
Quote
Wright was born in Bishop's Stortford, Hertfordshire. His father died in World War II and his mother re-married to a Belgian soldier. The family emigrated to Belgium when Wright was only three. He grew up in Liège.
 
Wright's first sport was football. However, when his stepfather died leaving the family short of money, Wright turned to cycling as a more lucrative way of exploiting his athletic talent.
 
His first language was French and, although he represented Great Britain at the Tour de France and several World road race championships, his English was limited. During the winter of 1967-8 he took evening classes to brush up his English in preparation for riding with the British team. In 2006, he told Procycling magazine that his English is poor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Wright_(cyclist)

It often seems that cycling is the sport for misfits, and that includes those who don't identify with a nation. Although being a Francophile helps.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 19, 2012, 10:45:01 pm
I don't think he will be properly accepted by the French until he calls himself Ouiggeaux.

You owe me a fresh pint!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: onb on July 19, 2012, 10:53:00 pm
Its due to be a climbers tour next year ,Froome against Bertie , looking forward to it already.Think Froome may be cooked for the vuelta this year.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 19, 2012, 11:29:59 pm
What was that phrase about Voeckler, "the housewife's favourite"? You can see why!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 19, 2012, 11:39:37 pm
What was that phrase about Voeckler, "the housewife's favourite"? You can see why!

Quite so (http://www.bikeradar.com/gallery/article/rubber-face-the-tours-most-expressive-man-34659?img=3).  ;)

Mind you, whilst he's down there, his facial tics aren't putting them off their stroke, so to speak.   :demon:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 19, 2012, 11:43:29 pm
Mr Bean goes bike racing. (http://www.bikeradar.com/gallery/article/rubber-face-the-tours-most-expressive-man-34659/1)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 19, 2012, 11:46:59 pm
Mr Bean goes bike racing. (http://www.bikeradar.com/gallery/article/rubber-face-the-tours-most-expressive-man-34659/1)

Looks like he misjudged things after a spell riding out of the saddle.  ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ewan Houzami on July 20, 2012, 12:01:08 am
Before I attempt to endure the interminable adverts on ITVplayer interspersed with a documentary about a Mr B. Wiggins (I was out when it was broadcast earlier), does anybody know when or if said programme will be repeated soon?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 20, 2012, 12:09:04 am
Before I attempt to endure the interminable adverts on ITVplayer interspersed with a documentary about a Mr B. Wiggins (I was out when it was broadcast earlier), does anybody know when or if said programme will be repeated soon?

Mid-day Friday (i.e. today), before the live coverage begins.

EDIT - also repeated on Monday 23rd July, at 7pm.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ewan Houzami on July 20, 2012, 12:20:16 am
Great! Cheers spesh
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Wowbagger on July 20, 2012, 12:31:03 am
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/19/tour-de-france-bradley-wiggins

If that's an accurate report, it sounds like tempting providence to me. All sorts of things can go wrong between now and the Champs Elysées.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: jogler on July 20, 2012, 04:53:29 am
I do not care wether Wiggins or Froome wins.If a British cyclist wins it,riding in a British team
Bankrolled by a currently unpopular Australian/American media mogul  ;)

It's good that a colonial should contribute something to the mother country :demon:

Seriously,I would have thought his preference would have been to inject all that £ into the Australian scene. To raise Cadel Evans's profile?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 20, 2012, 05:02:01 am
I do not care wether Wiggins or Froome wins.If a British cyclist wins it,riding in a British team
Bankrolled by a currently unpopular Australian/American media mogul  ;)

It's good that a colonial should contribute something to the mother country :demon:

Seriously,I would have thought his preference would have been to inject all that £ into the Australian scene. To raise Cadel Evans's profile?

The UK media market is worth maybe 10 times that of Australia, and Sky must be looking to the potential market in Europe. Australia is a tiny market by comparison and, anyway, Murdoch left there a long time ago. His loyalty is to cash, not countries.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: jogler on July 20, 2012, 05:07:09 am
I do not care wether Wiggins or Froome wins.If a British cyclist wins it,riding in a British team
Bankrolled by a currently unpopular Australian/American media mogul  ;)

It's good that a colonial should contribute something to the mother country :demon:

Seriously,I would have thought his preference would have been to inject all that £ into the Australian scene. To raise Cadel Evans's profile?

The UK media market is worth maybe 10 times that of Australia, and Sky must be looking to the potential market in Europe. Australia is a tiny market by comparison and, anyway, Murdoch left there a long time ago. His loyalty is to cash, not countries.

Yes,I should have realised that.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: MattH on July 20, 2012, 08:05:50 am
One thing that really makes us flinch when watching is the spectators getting in the riders faces as they climb. I'm surprised no-one has commented on Cav's crash yesterday, when a flag waved in his face by a "fan" wrapped around his bars and brought him down. Perhaps it's time to start looking at some crowd control?
 
https://twitter.com/MarkCavendish/status/226004930098503681
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 20, 2012, 08:19:03 am
Before I attempt to endure the interminable adverts on ITVplayer interspersed with a documentary about a Mr B. Wiggins (I was out when it was broadcast earlier), does anybody know when or if said programme will be repeated soon?

You're not familiar with ITV4's programming policy then? It'll be repeated at least twice a week for the next three years.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: andyoxon on July 20, 2012, 08:19:32 am
Didn't know this...

Quote
Wiggins was born in Belgium and spent several years with French cycling teams, so he can - if he wants - speak French fluently.
Bradley Wiggins: What the French make of cycling hero   http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18899902

Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 20, 2012, 08:56:43 am
So they see him the same way we see Eric Cantona, really.

Love the front page of today's Equipe:
http://p.twimg.com/AyOe_YkCYAAg-jx.jpg#twimg

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 20, 2012, 09:05:42 am
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/19/tour-de-france-bradley-wiggins

If that's an accurate report, it sounds like tempting providence to me. All sorts of things can go wrong between now and the Champs Elysées.

Do you actually think that "tempting providence" has any influence on professional world-class sport?
What next - will you be checking they don't tread on any cracks on their way to the start?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rhys W on July 20, 2012, 09:22:23 am
Did anyone else notice the "tacks" graffiti on the road yesterday?

Gotta love cycling fans humour!  ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 20, 2012, 09:33:30 am
One thing that really makes us flinch when watching is the spectators getting in the riders faces as they climb. I'm surprised no-one has commented on Cav's crash yesterday, when a flag waved in his face by a "fan" wrapped around his bars and brought him down. Perhaps it's time to start looking at some crowd control?
 
https://twitter.com/MarkCavendish/status/226004930098503681

I find it uncomfortable/maddening viewing as the top riders try to force their way through ranks of f***wits at the top of climbs.

I'd use Tasers on the ones that run alongside, bouncing off other spectators into the path of the cyclists.

Can you imagine Usain Bolt trying to dodge lardy-arse tw4ts with flags on the 100 metres track?

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: JT on July 20, 2012, 09:38:58 am
Anyone arriving at the top of a climb in fancy dress or a mankini should be thrown off it. Literally.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 20, 2012, 09:58:31 am
Anyone arriving at the top of a climb in fancy dress or a mankini should be thrown off it. Literally.

*Like*
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: andyoxon on July 20, 2012, 10:03:54 am
T'was ever thus; or have things got worse re the mountain crowds?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 20, 2012, 10:10:47 am
It may have been exacerbated this time because they have used some new finishes on very narrow roads (I think).  It's certainly looked very dangerous.  Lance would have decked a few people by now - but then, he'd possibly have had more energy!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: JT on July 20, 2012, 10:16:49 am
It's all Didi's fault (the Devil). He was regularly show in his daft costume so people copied him, thinking they'll get on TV too. I suppose it's really the fault of TV, giving airtime to these idiots.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 20, 2012, 10:21:14 am
I'm sure you're right, bonny lad.  But I suppose if it wasn't for TV, there wouldn't be a TdeF, these days.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 20, 2012, 10:26:43 am
Maybe just fit the Tour cars with these (to encourage the nutters to step back a few feet)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a333/ncodb3/2606477813_b18c0d8e5c.jpg)

Excellent perspective from Jens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQgWWceYwbY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQgWWceYwbY)

I sort of understand the drunken F***wits doing it.  They are f***wits and they are drunk.

What I don't understand is the Lycra-Clad Racing Whippets doing it.  They are clearly cyclists and you'd think they would appreciate the dangers (especially as many of the "offenders" cycled up there themselves...probably whinging about cars driving too close).
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: IanDG on July 20, 2012, 10:29:40 am
T'was ever thus; or have things got worse re the mountain crowds?

Indeed it has been, but generally the crowd were more constrained (most of them (http://youtu.be/z1DwSICLGBI))
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: токамак on July 20, 2012, 10:30:18 am
It's all Didi's fault (the Devil). He was regularly show in his daft costume so people copied him, thinking they'll get on TV too. I suppose it's really the fault of TV, giving airtime to these idiots.

I went to watch stage 3 this year, and found myself next to a woman dressed in a cow costume. She had nice udders. I was in my club kit, and we were seen on TV!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 20, 2012, 10:51:42 am
One thing that really makes us flinch when watching is the spectators getting in the riders faces as they climb. I'm surprised no-one has commented on Cav's crash yesterday, when a flag waved in his face by a "fan" wrapped around his bars and brought him down. Perhaps it's time to start looking at some crowd control?
 
https://twitter.com/MarkCavendish/status/226004930098503681

It wasn't mentioned on the live coverage, or hadn't been by the time I turned it off and went for a beer! But I think it's been a risk on the mountains of the Tour for many years, and I guess that the organisers think the risk is worth it to keep the atmosphere of these summit finishes. Notice that in the video accompanying Jens' comments above, some of the numpties are road-side of the barriers, so I don't think barriers are the answer (and probably aren't possible on may of the tiny roads they use). You could try and take alcohol out of the equation, but how? Perhaps the escort motorcycles could just run over the more excitable spectators and remove the risk that way!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nuncio on July 20, 2012, 11:07:58 am
So they see him the same way we see Eric Cantona, really.

Love the front page of today's Equipe:
http://p.twimg.com/AyOe_YkCYAAg-jx.jpg#twimg

d.

Nice.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 20, 2012, 11:10:58 am
Colonel Wiggo!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mcshroom on July 20, 2012, 11:15:09 am
I'm waiting for the picture of Wiggins in the yellow jersey leading out Cav in the rainbow jersey for the sprint in Paris.  :)

The British cycling system is in a much better place than I can ever remember, and I hope this extra profile has some spill-over into cycling generally in the UK.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 20, 2012, 11:16:59 am
Me, too - I just hope it's not the proliferation of side-burns!  (But I expect it will be.)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: simonp on July 20, 2012, 11:20:45 am
Me, too - I just hope it's not the proliferation of side-burns!  (But I expect it will be.)

As usual, I'm ahead of the curve.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 20, 2012, 11:21:46 am
Me, too - I just hope it's not the proliferation of side-burns!  (But I expect it will be.)

I just wish I could grow some! But, sadly, it's not to be. :(
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: IanDG on July 20, 2012, 11:23:50 am
Me, too - I just hope it's not the proliferation of side-burns!  (But I expect it will be.)

As usual, I'm ahead of the curve.


+1
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 20, 2012, 11:24:27 am
Me, too - I just hope it's not the proliferation of side-burns!  (But I expect it will be.)

As usual, I'm ahead of the curve.

I'm still not sure whether to use you as an example or a warning Simon.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 20, 2012, 11:26:51 am
I'm cultivating my tribute 'burns as we speak :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 20, 2012, 11:29:05 am
I had a decent pair of sidies for many years... until I finally trimmed them off about six months ago. Might have to grow them back in tribute.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 20, 2012, 11:31:59 am
My initial remark was a rueful one; I've never been able to grow them.  But I can swear ok and am skinny and have black socks and live in Lancashire!  (Can't ride very well though.)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Chris S on July 20, 2012, 11:32:41 am
Excellent. A YACF Wiggo-based sideburn contest.

Count me in. I know someone who digs men in chops.

Sadly, my DNA blew most of the hair budget on my chin, and Mo. Things get a bit thin & weedy toward the ears (but sadly, less so ON the ears - how fucked up is that?).

My burns don't actually connect with (what's left of) my barnet.

I'd still give it a shot though...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 20, 2012, 11:33:39 am
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/19/tour-de-france-bradley-wiggins

If that's an accurate report, it sounds like tempting providence to me. All sorts of things can go wrong between now and the Champs Elysées.

Do you actually think that "tempting providence" has any influence on professional world-class sport?
What next - will you be checking they don't tread on any cracks on their way to the start?
I think that Matt has discovered the supernatural chink in the great rationalist's armour.  :)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Chris S on July 20, 2012, 11:40:06 am
Hmm... just thought. If I grow my burns, I'll have to let my head hair grow too. Sideburns and a shaved head look fucking weird - like one of those magnet/iron filing toys - you know the ones:

(http://www.childofthe1980s.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/wooly-willy.jpg)

Ooh... I saw that and thought of someone...  :D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Notsototalnewbie on July 20, 2012, 11:46:44 am
I’ve been trying to persuade Rob to cultivate some tribute sideburns in time for when we go to spectate on Sunday but he hasn’t bitten. I will just have to make do with him being tall ‘n’ skinny and having lived in Lancashire for 20-odd years…
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 20, 2012, 11:56:59 am
NSTN, Have a fab time on Sunday and, if you can get close enough to get hold of him, give Wiggo a big wet sloppy kiss from me :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 20, 2012, 12:03:21 pm
I reckon Wiggo's 'burns are a tribute to Jonathan Vaughters. Brad's facial hair waxed and waned at Garmin, in the presence of the master of novelty facial fuzz.
(http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/magazine/specials/sportsman/2007/11/25/murphy.vaughters/vaughters-jon.jpg)

I think that most YACFers are better modelling themselves on Froome, whose rapidly receding hairline is tending to a coconut tuft.

I wonder what would have happened if Wiggins had stayed at Garmin? Would he have consolidated on his 2009 result?
In some ways I'd have liked to have seen Froome compete as a Kenyan, as he did when he won bronze in the All-Africa Games in 2007. It might have helped focus some attention on the failure of Eritreans to break through into the big time in world cycling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_at_the_2007_All-Africa_Games
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Notsototalnewbie on July 20, 2012, 12:10:34 pm
NSTN, Have a fab time on Sunday and, if you can get close enough to get hold of him, give Wiggo a big wet sloppy kiss from me :thumbsup:

;D

You never know! Perhaps if I employ my dulcet Kilburn squawking tones…
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Tigerrr on July 20, 2012, 12:12:00 pm
I reckon Wiggo's 'burns are a tribute to Jonathan Vaughters. Brad's facial hair waxed and waned at Garmin, in the presence of the master of novelty facial fuzz.
(http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/magazine/specials/sportsman/2007/11/25/murphy.vaughters/vaughters-jon.jpg)

I think that most YACFers are better modelling themselves on Froome, whose rapidly receding hairline is tending to a coconut tuft.

I wonder what would have happened if Wiggins had stayed at Garmin? Would he have consolidated on his 2009 result?
In some ways I'd have liked to have seen Froome compete as a Kenyan, as he did when he won bronze in the All-Africa Games in 2007. It might have helped focus some attention on the failure of Eritreans to break through into the big time in world cycling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_at_the_2007_All-Africa_Games
Hes weed himself in that picture. No good having burns to draw attention if you are incontinent.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Redlight on July 20, 2012, 12:27:41 pm
Excellent. A YACF Wiggo-based sideburn contest.

Count me in. I know someone who digs men in chops.


Count me out. My stoker says I look like a child molestor with any facial hair  :o
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 20, 2012, 12:38:31 pm
I reckon Wiggo's 'burns are a tribute to Jonathan Vaughters. Brad's facial hair waxed and waned at Garmin, in the presence of the master of novelty facial fuzz.
(http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/magazine/specials/sportsman/2007/11/25/murphy.vaughters/vaughters-jon.jpg)

Hes weed himself in that picture. No good having burns to draw attention if you are incontinent.
His use of Spinacis in 2001 would mean that it's the mountain TT stage, as they were banned for road stages in 1997, helmets weren't compulsory before 2003, and even then were optional for uphill finishes. We haven't seen a mountain TT for a long time in the Tour. They always were a festival of sweating.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Wowbagger on July 20, 2012, 12:42:32 pm
Perhaps not the right thread, but it will do.

It struck me yesterday evening how many yoofs and not-so-yoofs there were in the park practising their fupbol and how futile it was. Even though the fupbol season hasn't started yet, there they are, all in their kit, attending orgnised club training sessions and yet England remains stubbornly useless at the so-called Beautiful Game. We cyclists, however, are out in far smaller numbers yet those ladies and gentlemen at the pinnacle of British cycling are indeed the best in the world.

I feel immensely proud of having instigated the WARTY and of its undoubted contribution to the successes of Messrs. Hoy, Wiggins, Cavendish et al, not to mention Mlles. Cooke and Pendleton.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Wowbagger on July 20, 2012, 12:51:48 pm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/19/tour-de-france-bradley-wiggins

If that's an accurate report, it sounds like tempting providence to me. All sorts of things can go wrong between now and the Champs Elysées.

Do you actually think that "tempting providence" has any influence on professional world-class sport?
What next - will you be checking they don't tread on any cracks on their way to the start?
I think that Matt has discovered the supernatural chink in the great rationalist's armour.  :)
What it exhibits is Wiggins' state of mind. Psychologically, he's in Paris already. That's a very dangerous place for his mind to be. It won't be "in the bag" until he's crossed the finishing line and I hope his psychologist is working on this.

I have very bitter personal experience of competitors relaxing too soon and not winning titles when they were clearly the best, on paper, in the competition. Having said that, my teams have also been the beneficiaries when other, supposedly better, teams have stalled through over-confidence.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Eccentrica Gallumbits on July 20, 2012, 12:53:10 pm
I reckon Wiggo's 'burns are a tribute to Jonathan Vaughters.
I reckon he's the long lost son of John McCririck.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 20, 2012, 12:53:42 pm
Perhaps not the right thread, but it will do.

It struck me yesterday evening how many yoofs and not-so-yoofs there were in the park practising their fupbol and how futile it was. Even though the fupbol season hasn't started yet, there they are, all in their kit, attending orgnised club training sessions and yet England remains stubbornly useless at the so-called Beautiful Game. We cyclists, however, are out in far smaller numbers yet those ladies and gentlemen at the pinnacle of Brishsh cycling are indeed the best in the world.

I feel immensely proud of having instigated the WARTY and of its undoubted contribution to the successes of Messrs. Hoy, Wiggins, Cavendish et al, not to mention Mlles. Cooke and Pendleton.

It is all the fault of the Bearded One and we are not worthy :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 20, 2012, 12:55:20 pm
I don't see why playing football is futile? And I don't see what the perfermance of the England national team has got to do with it either!

And as for England being "stubbornly useless" - they're not really. They regularly get to the quater final stages (and occassionally semi finals) of major competitions and their results are comparable and even favourable compared to many other national sides. Just because they don't win the world cup and Euro champs every single time (as the general public seems to expect) doesn't make them useless.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: clarion on July 20, 2012, 01:05:15 pm
England are consistently adequate at football, and there is no reason for us to expect more of them.

I'm pleased by the building enthusiasm for cycling, and I hope it gets reflected in increased numbers of people actually getting out there and doing it, whether with a club or to get the shopping, I don't care, so long as they are riding safely and legally.

On the subject of Wiggo sidies, many of you know that TGL is our expert in that department. ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 20, 2012, 01:08:55 pm
T'was ever thus; or have things got worse re the mountain crowds?
The race has got more popular - I'm sure I've seen statistics. Of course Le Tour WANTS to get more popular.

I actually like the fancy dress - if they stay out of the way of the riders. Clearly it's possible to put on a show without interfering with the MAIN show - everyone loved the Devil (where's he got to this year? )
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 20, 2012, 01:09:54 pm
Recovering from treatment, I vaguely recall.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 20, 2012, 01:10:17 pm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/19/tour-de-france-bradley-wiggins

If that's an accurate report, it sounds like tempting providence to me. All sorts of things can go wrong between now and the Champs Elysées.

Do you actually think that "tempting providence" has any influence on professional world-class sport?
What next - will you be checking they don't tread on any cracks on their way to the start?
I think that Matt has discovered the supernatural chink in the great rationalist's armour.  :)
What it exhibits is Wiggins' state of mind. Psychologically, he's in Paris already. That's a very dangerous place for his mind to be. It won't be "in the bag" until he's crossed the finishing line and I hope his psychologist is working on this.

I have very bitter personal experience of competitors relaxing too soon and not winning titles when they were clearly the best, on paper, in the competition. Having said that, my teams have also been the beneficiaries when other, supposedly better, teams have stalled through over-confidence.

Wiggins isn't using a single competence to win the Tour. Yesterday's stage marked the end of a phase when he was most vulnerable to attack, not least from his team-mate Froome. Brad no longer needs to provide leadership or bluff his opponents, that's why he was so relieved. The next interesting event is the final TT. Will Wiggo 'gift' the stage to Froome? Froome will go off a minute before Wiggins, and needs to secure his second place. Wiggins is unlikely to sit up in the last minute to gift the stage to Froome, but he owes Froome. It's possible that Froome is stronger and hungrier, so he may take some time out of Wiggins.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fboab on July 20, 2012, 01:16:19 pm
Excellent. A YACF Wiggo-based sideburn contest.

Count me in.

:swoon:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 20, 2012, 01:16:29 pm
Perhaps not the right thread, but it will do.

It struck me yesterday evening how many yoofs and not-so-yoofs there were in the park practising their fupbol and how futile it was. Even though the fupbol season hasn't started yet, there they are, all in their kit, attending orgnised club training sessions and yet England remains stubbornly useless at the so-called Beautiful Game. We cyclists, however, are out in far smaller numbers yet those ladies and gentlemen at the pinnacle of Brishsh cycling are indeed the best in the world.

I feel immensely proud of having instigated the WARTY and of its undoubted contribution to the successes of Messrs. Hoy, Wiggins, Cavendish et al, not to mention Mlles. Cooke and Pendleton.


It's about high-quality coaching from a young age.

GB Cycling has the best coaching structure in the world.

British Football has about the worst.

GB Cyclists are taught the best techniques for winning.

GB Footballers are not taught technique, they are encouraged to run about a lot and hope the ball bounces off one of them, fortuitously, into the net.  It's a form of technique based on Brownian Motion and the National Lottery.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 20, 2012, 01:20:26 pm
I don't see why playing football is futile? And I don't see what the perfermance of the England national team has got to do with it either!

And as for England being "stubbornly useless" - they're not really. They regularly get to the quater final stages (and occassionally semi finals) of major competitions and their results are comparable and even favourable compared to many other national sides. Just because they don't win the world cup and Euro champs every single time (as the general public seems to expect) doesn't make them useless.

Sky are more analagous to Chelsea, or Man City. Lots of money from a sponsor with deep pockets, and the best riders that money can buy. Cavendish's success was more immediately obvious to the kids, I started to get a lot more positive comments when he started winning. G.C. riding is a lot more complicated to explain. I'll be interested to see if there's a more positive attitude from motorists on the Mersey Roads 24, you sometimes get a 'thumbs-up' when you're marshalling at 4am from night-clubbing returnees.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 20, 2012, 01:24:52 pm
I love Tommy V's KoM Colnago!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 20, 2012, 01:30:24 pm
I was wondering last night if having a fixed cut-of time might invigorate the racing. At present a rider is disqualified if they come in more than 20% later than the winner. That's a strong disincentive for attacks, as vigorous riding might eliminate team-mates. Equally, those who have attacked one day need to recover the next, and can't know if an attack might put them over the time limit. I can see that the problem would be longer road closures.
My favourite moment of the Tour was when Nibali was evicted from yesterday's break by Valverde.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 20, 2012, 01:33:02 pm
I love Tommy V's KoM Colnago!

I'm really pleased by Bradley's success and that of the British riders generally but I've enjoyed Thomas Voeckler's exploits most.  I'll look out for that bike!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 20, 2012, 01:38:44 pm
Excellent. A YACF Wiggo-based sideburn contest.

http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=61528.0
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 20, 2012, 01:49:51 pm
I was wondering last night if having a fixed cut-of time might invigorate the racing. At present a rider is disqualified if they come in more than 20% later than the winner. That's a strong disincentive for attacks, as vigorous riding might eliminate team-mates. Equally, those who have attacked one day need to recover the next, and can't know if an attack might put them over the time limit. I can see that the problem would be longer road closures.
My favourite moment of the Tour was when Nibali was evicted from yesterday's break by Valverde.

The cut-off regulations are a lot more complex than I thought, I've got a new-found respect for the driver of the autobus.
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part1/section-24.html
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: MattH on July 20, 2012, 02:45:18 pm
T'was ever thus; or have things got worse re the mountain crowds?
The race has got more popular - I'm sure I've seen statistics. Of course Le Tour WANTS to get more popular.

I actually like the fancy dress - if they stay out of the way of the riders. Clearly it's possible to put on a show without interfering with the MAIN show - everyone loved the Devil (where's he got to this year? )

I agree - the crowds and spectacle are part of it. From a rider's perspective and my experience on PBP and Paris-Roubaix, it makes a big difference having cheering spectators lining the roads.
But lining is the operative word; it is a road race, not some bastardised MTB/cyclocross hybrid where the winner has to have ridden over the prone bodies of the morons who weren't fast enough to get out of the way of a fast moving group of cyclists. It's not even as if they weren't aware that the riders were about to come through - the caravan, motorcycles, big red car and helicopters are a bit of a giveaway.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Pingu on July 20, 2012, 02:53:14 pm
My favourite moment of the Tour was when Nibali was evicted from yesterday's break by Valverde.

I think that Nibbly's sneak attack in the fog shows why team radios should be banned.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: road-runner on July 20, 2012, 03:01:26 pm
... everyone loved the Devil (where's he got to this year? )

Tour Devil Didi Senft is a standard part of the Tour scenery, but may not make it to the race this year. The 60-year-old German is only recently out of hospital, where he had to have fluid drained from his skull. The doctors have told him to stay home and stay quiet – a difficult task for Senft, who is well-known for his grimaces and leaps as he urges the peloton on during the mountain stages.

But don't worry, the Tour Devil has every intention of being back in 2013 and is full of plans to build even bigger and better bike models while recuperating!

Source: www.cyclingnews.com (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-shorts-martin-keeps-on-team-alpecin-and-fingernails)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 20, 2012, 03:17:45 pm
Go Cav you beauty!!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Karla on July 20, 2012, 03:18:04 pm
F*** me that was a good win, how fast is that man again?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 20, 2012, 03:18:10 pm
Jesus fuck! The speed of Cav in the overhead shot!!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Gus on July 20, 2012, 03:18:18 pm
That was an epic finish  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 20, 2012, 03:23:29 pm
Just awesome. If Cav wasn't favourite for the Olympic road race before, he is now. But talk about leaving the chase late - I was sure Nick Roche had got it. Big hand to Brad and EBH. Wonderful!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TheLurker on July 20, 2012, 03:24:48 pm
My oh my.   That was breathtaking.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: jogler on July 20, 2012, 03:27:46 pm
His soubriquet is well earned n'est pas....ManxMissile :o
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Karla on July 20, 2012, 03:30:29 pm
I'm racking my brains for my favourite Cav win in the past.  It was in 2009, either MSR, TdF stage 19 or the Champs Elysses that year.

I have a new favourite!  I thought the break had got it there, and was preparing to post that Stephen Roche must be very proud.  However, excellent work by Wiggins and EBH (pity he couldn't have won from the break) followed by the biggest, bestest, longest and fastest sprint ever, straight past the break to an irresistible win.

He now has 22 TdF wins, the same as Lance.  That's some payback for 3 weeks of domestiquing; bring on Paris!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Chris S on July 20, 2012, 03:33:01 pm
Nothing like a lead-out from Yellow  :thumbsup:.

Fantastic finish.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Veloman on July 20, 2012, 03:35:32 pm
Yes, that was incredible.

I even believe the nearest riders to him should be at 1 second!

Glad to see Bernard Hinault did not make any special effort for his president in terms of his dress; casual as ever.  (How galling for the president to be congratulating stage winner and overall leader in their own race!)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: JT on July 20, 2012, 03:37:42 pm
All those people who were adamant that Cav would pull out of the Tour to prepare for the Olympics, I hope you're enjoying your slice of humble pie.  ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Veloman on July 20, 2012, 03:41:10 pm
All those people who were adamant that Cav would pull out of the Tour to prepare for the Olympics, I hope you're enjoying your slice of humble pie.  ;D

Indeed, and those who said he would not finsih the Giro.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 20, 2012, 03:46:10 pm
Cav's sideburns are almost as good as Brad's!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 20, 2012, 03:49:02 pm
Cav's sideburns are almost as good as Brad's!

I think there may be team sidies for Sunday!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 20, 2012, 03:49:15 pm
All those people who were adamant that Cav would pull out of the Tour to prepare for the Olympics, I hope you're enjoying your slice of humble pie.  ;D

Smug git.  :thumbsup:  ;D

To all those people: see my avatar.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 20, 2012, 04:05:32 pm
Sky shoots, Cav scores.  8)

I'd say Wiggo is definitely off Luis Leon Sanchez's Christmas card list now - that's the second time that a monster turn at the front has resulted in LLS being swamped before the line.  ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 20, 2012, 04:17:52 pm
And Brad took the yellow jersey off LL at the Tour of Romandie. He must be starting to think it's personal.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Veloman on July 20, 2012, 04:24:54 pm
I'd say Wiggo is definitely off Luis Leon Sanchez's Christmas card list now - that's the second time that a monster turn at the front has resulted in LLS being swamped before the line.  ;D

Just watched it again and LLS just sits up and raises his hand when Cav shot past him.  Love to hear what he has to say.  I beleive there have already been comments along the lines of "do Sky want to win everything?"  Other riders clearly not happy.  Let's hope it's Brad on Saturday (or even better Chris F) and Cav on Sunday.  Could even have been a potential 4 stages in sucession if Chris F was given his freedom yesterday.  Sky are dominant.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 20, 2012, 05:57:07 pm
Quote
julienpretotRTR‏@julienpretotRTR

Brad asked about French president Hollande: "I didn't know who he was, I thought he was some guy from Loft Story (Big Brother)" (https://twitter.com/julienpretotRTR/statuses/226342161417924608) #QOTD

 ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: slohill on July 20, 2012, 06:05:06 pm
Great comment on Eurosport (I think I heard it correctly  :demon:)

"President Hollande is given the honour of meeting Bradley Wiggins"
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: docsquid on July 20, 2012, 06:08:49 pm
Did anybody else notice the lead-out train?  There was a Garmin rider on front before Wiggo took it up.  Was that Millar?  If so, then that was a dress-rehearsal for the Team GB Olympics lead-out train, (with EBH taking the place of Stannard).  I do not know who the Garmin rider was, but it looked like Millar.  If so, wonder if Wiggo had a word with him and asked him if he was up for a bit of practice?

Stunning speed from Wiggo.  Griepel et al were nowhere, left for dead.  Amazing!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 20, 2012, 06:18:32 pm
I think the Garmin rider was Van de Velde

Edit: It was. Millar rolled home nearly 9 minutes later! (He did stretch his legs in the break though  :) )
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 20, 2012, 08:12:45 pm
I loved the message from Big Mig on the ITV4 show. It is gratifying to see a big rouleur in charge of the Tour again after a fallow period. Brad's turn of speed was impressive in the lead-out, but the camera did flatter Cav a bit, as the riders we got to compare him with were Sanchez and Roche, who'd just been on a long breakaway. It was a very well timed catch.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Veloman on July 20, 2012, 08:21:19 pm
......... the camera did flatter Cav a bit, as the riders we got to compare him with were Sanchez and Roche, who'd just been on a long breakaway.

Ignoring Sanchez and Roche from the pictures, where were the other sprinters?  The on-line photo shows Cav well clear and he slowed up for his victory salute.  I think flattery is well in order for his performance as no other sprinter was anywhere near him today and for a sprint, he won by a mile (speaking metaphorically!)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: twiddler on July 20, 2012, 08:44:38 pm
Anyone know what happened to the yellow helmets?  Were Sky the only ones to play that game?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Somnolent on July 20, 2012, 08:47:09 pm
RadioShack didnt want to wear them ... and they still lead the team classification.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 20, 2012, 08:47:57 pm
It was a great sprint performance, but the overhead shot shows him passing Roche and Sanchez, which exaggerates the speed differential. Cavendish seemed to lag behind Boasen Hagen, and was on a Lotto wheel, but it gave him a clearer run in the end. We don't see any of the other sprinters in the overhead shot.
http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/stages/stage18/
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 20, 2012, 08:53:38 pm
RadioShack didnt want to wear them ... and they still lead the team classification.

Jens seems to be wearing one, I reckon he should become the Bris Becker or Jurgen Klinsmann of cycling commentary.
http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/stages/stage18/
as in Jens plans for retirement in these videos.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Veloman on July 20, 2012, 08:56:14 pm
It was a great sprint performance, but the overhead shot shows him passing Roche and Sanchez, which exaggerates the speed differential. http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/stages/stage18/

Agreed

We don't see any of the other sprinters in the overhead shot.
http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/stages/stage18/

Which just shows how fast he was really going as none of the other sprinters could stick with him.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Somnolent on July 20, 2012, 09:01:40 pm
Whilst we are all in awe of the sheer speed of the Manxmissile... his bike handling and tactical skills are also incredible.  He lost EBH's wheel but seemed to find a faster line than the others through that last corner, going from the outside to the apex at just the right moment to find the gap between Sieberg and Greipel.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 20, 2012, 09:04:48 pm
Just watched this - apologies for the language - I've had a few glasses of a very tasty Islay malt - F***ing Hell that was amazing !!!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 20, 2012, 09:11:21 pm
There was me lusting after that sexy French Eurosport interviewer and it turns out she's Hungarian !  Where is Professor Higgins when you need him ?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 20, 2012, 09:27:59 pm
It was a great sprint performance, but the overhead shot shows him passing Roche and Sanchez, which exaggerates the speed differential. Cavendish seemed to lag behind Boasen Hagen, and was on a Lotto wheel, but it gave him a clearer run in the end. We don't see any of the other sprinters in the overhead shot.

.....Brad's turn of speed was impressive in the lead-out, but the camera did flatter Cav a bit, as the riders we got to compare him with were Sanchez and Roche, who'd just been on a long breakaway

(http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/hitchhikers/gallery/images/340/marvin.jpg)

I don't think it flattered him one tiny bit.  I think it demonstrated what the best sprinter in the World (ever?) can do and how it compares to "normal" World Class cyclists when it comes to those final 200 metres.

Usually we only get to see him surging past other sprinters but this really showed what a special person he is and just how quickly these folks move.  I'd love to see the final 500m from above.

Stunning speed and perfect timing.  I knew beforehand that he'd won the stage but, with 100 to go, I thought there must have been a clerical error.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nuncio on July 20, 2012, 09:46:11 pm
That stage had nearly everything. 
- Donkeys in yellow, green and polka dot jerseys lining up for the helicopter camera. 
- Dog carnage. 
- Gilbert terrifying the daughter of said dog's owner.
- The yellow jersey in the lead out.
- A will-they-won't they make it? break.
- LL Sanchez' sudden capitulation when his stage win chance crumbled as Cav zoomed pass.*
- Cav winning in style.

*Come to think of it, Sanchez has had a lot of 'looks'. 
There was that remonstration when he turned round and saw Wiggins leading out Boassan Hagan to the Cap D'Agde finish, as if to say 'You have yellow, let another team have the stage'.
There was the apparent double-take when Sagan caught him up on the Mur de Péguère: 'What the hell are you doing here?'
The extended salute looking backwards on the same stage when he was sure he'd won.
And today's: 'I give up. What chance do I have against that?'
 
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: AndyK on July 20, 2012, 09:49:23 pm
There was me lusting after that sexy French Eurosport interviewer and it turns out she's Hungarian !  Where is Professor Higgins when you need him ?

Me too. The first shot from road level i thought, 'that was close!' Then they showed the aerial view and I thought 'F*ck me! Where's he hiding the jet engine?!'
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 20, 2012, 09:55:33 pm
I don't think it flattered him one tiny bit.  I think it demonstrated what the best sprinter in the World (ever?) can do and how it compares to "normal" World Class cyclists when it comes to those final 200 metres.

Usually we only get to see him surging past other sprinters but this really showed what a special person he is and just how quickly these folks move.  I'd love to see the final 500m from above.

Stunning speed and perfect timing.  I knew beforehand that he'd won the stage but, with 100 to go, I thought there must have been a clerical error.

I'd like to have seen a wider overhead shot to see how Goss and Sagan got ahead of Sanchez and Roche.
The fascinating aspect of radio tactics is the conflict between going for the jugular and allowing other teams their moment in the Sun. Sean Yates had been advising Sky to let the break go, which would have built up goodwill. I'd prefer to let the best team win, which is what happened. It does open up the possibility of national teams cooperating against GB in the Olympics, which might brighten up the Olympics Road Race.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 20, 2012, 10:10:02 pm
Yeah, Goss and Sagan were not that far behind Cav in the end and considering they started the sprint behind him anyway, they were never going to go past him.

What was left of the break was going backwards by the time Cav passed them. Still looked great on the telly though  :)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Redlight on July 20, 2012, 11:07:38 pm
For what was supposed to be a boring rest stage, that was f--in' great! I keep re-running the finish and trying to work out how Cav got through. Much as I am torn between thinking that Sky have made it the dullest Tour for some years and being ecstatic to see a British winner, I know for certain that I want to see Cav win on Sunday. The way he has ridden this tour deserves nothing less.  Let's hope he moves team afterwards, but not to the same one as Froome :-)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Andrew Br on July 20, 2012, 11:36:29 pm
I thought that the most extraordinary part of Cav's sprint was how long it was.
He dropped off Boasson Hagen's wheel and then he came up with that surge from miles behind a long way back.
Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.
It bodes well for the Olympic (if I can still say that without being sued) road race. Even if the other teams gang up, can they cope with the Brailsford tactics combined with a team of Cavendish/Frome/Millar/Stannard/whatsisname ? I doubt it.

I've commented before about the HTC lead-out train being one of the most spectacular sporting images that I've ever seen.
Wiggins in the yellow jersey leading out EBH and Cav comes very close.

I'm looking forward to seeing that on Sunday.

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mr magnolia on July 20, 2012, 11:53:00 pm
what a fabulous race it was indeed!  I particularly loved the way that both wiggins and cavs interviews suggest that it was a rider decision to go for the win. Perhaps only they really 'get' the emotional benefits of cav being able to break rather than equal a sprinters record in this tour?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rig of Jarkness on July 21, 2012, 07:10:20 am
Loved this tweet from David Harmon
Quote
Overheard: Sean intv with Belgian radio. "Roche didn't win but we'll claim Cav. The IOM is nearer to Ireland than Britain anyway." Quality
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Tewdric on July 21, 2012, 09:16:23 am
This is all getting rather excellent. 

What it needs now is a mod with a feckin' huge sound system blasting out "London Calling" as Wiggo leads Cav out down the Champs Élysées..
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimC on July 21, 2012, 09:50:12 am
Calling Valiant! Sam, time to break out a new boogie box... ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimO on July 21, 2012, 12:26:02 pm
That was a damned impressive sprint by Cav.  I've only just watched it on ITV Player, having snoozed through the coverage yesterday, recovering from the FNRttC (on Thursday Night / Friday morning, it was the Newhaven-Dieppe run).  As others have said, compared to the average professional cyclist he is spectacularly fast.  The average cyclists on here would basically be stationary compared to him, even working as hard as we could!

I'm not sure this Tour de France has been the most boring ever.  We've had quite a few impressive stages.  The last week has sometimes been a bit slow, but certainly not on the mountains, and that's natural to a certain extent, after two weeks of racing.  The riders are all getting a bit knackered, so not every stage is going to be full of excitement and continuous sprinting.

There have been plenty of other races where riders have gotten into yellow, and stayed there for a large period, way ahead of other riders, and I don't think they've been accused of making the race boring.  There are multiple jerseys that can be won, and the stages themselves, so it's a rare race when something worth watching isn't going on.  Today and tomorrow will have the time-trial, and the final run into Paris, and whilst the Jerseys are probably all sorted, it'll still be worth watching to see how the TT goes down, and whether Cav can get another spring finish under his belt.

I don't think this has been a boring race, and it'll certainly be exciting to see Bradley, and probably Froome take 1st and 2nd on the podium.  A bit of patriotism isn't misplaced, and both riders are exceptional cyclists anyway.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Doo on July 21, 2012, 12:32:41 pm
^agree
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: RJ on July 21, 2012, 12:33:47 pm
Loved this tweet from David Harmon
Quote
Overheard: Sean intv with Belgian radio. "Roche didn't win but we'll claim Cav. The IOM is nearer to Ireland than Britain anyway." Quality
;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: ferret on July 21, 2012, 01:56:55 pm
loved the reaction of Sanchez as Cav sailed past, wish I could finish a 100k like that :)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Domestique on July 21, 2012, 02:52:33 pm
HD on ITV really is good. I have watched other sports using HD but never had the chance to see any road cycling. It really is quite stunning. Perhaps I am just feeling happy  :-\
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 21, 2012, 02:54:39 pm
Just watched yesterday's stage highlights. Wow, those lights were high indeed! Really exciting finish. Although in a way I was disappointed not to see one of the breakaway riders win, Cav's rocket speed is incredible to watch. Actually, to see not watch - it's too fast to watch! And the way Sanchez and Roche were so bewildered by his zooming past that they actually freewheeled and got overtaken by the other sprinters too.

Elsewhere, Tommy Voeckler's matching jersey, shorts and bike made me smile.  :D Although he did look a bit like a pantomime cow.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimO on July 21, 2012, 03:16:50 pm
I'm amused that Wiggle is using the Allez Wiggo thing with their logo modified appropriately!  Quick thinking on their part!

(http://jakal.sp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~timo/AllezWiggoWiggle50percent.png)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimO on July 21, 2012, 03:52:54 pm
Hells bells, Wiggins just knocked 11 seconds off of Froome at the first time check.  I think Froome had already knocked 25 seconds off of the previous fastest, so Wiggins is flying.  Hopefully he hasn't gone off too fast, but if he keeps it up, he'll win this stage by a good margin!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimO on July 21, 2012, 04:12:25 pm
... and Wiggins has taken over 50 seconds off of Froome at the second time check. :o

I think we can see why Wiggins is the team leader, and not Froome!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 21, 2012, 04:15:43 pm
I'm amused that Wiggle is using the Allez Wiggo thing with their logo modified appropriately!  Quick thinking on their part!

I noticed Ribble were a bit too quick - sending out a "Celebrate Bradley Wiggins Victory in Le Tour de France..." email several days ago! Talk about tempting fate...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Veloman on July 21, 2012, 04:31:59 pm
So, Sky set to pip Sanchez on the line again!
He must just love the lads from Sky.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Veloman on July 21, 2012, 04:39:18 pm
Brilliant, just brilliant by both Froome and Wiggo, and Richie P as well.  3 Sky riders in top 5 for TT.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimO on July 21, 2012, 04:41:32 pm
Bloody hell.  When everyone else is beating each other by a few seconds, Froome knocks over 30 seconds off of Sanchez, and then Wiggins kicks over a minute off of that!

The lads from Sky are absolutely storming Time Trialists!  Bradley averaged over 31mph for over an hour of cycling.  I'm doing pretty well if I can stay above 30mph for a minute on the flat!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 21, 2012, 05:00:29 pm
Well done Brad. I tried out my anecdote of pushing Wiggo off on a Southport club 10, and following him today at the Mersey Roads. Blackburnrod, the timekeeper of the 24, was able to boast that he'd been on the same ride, and not been caught, although he was 6 minutes ahead. Let's hope we see a run of rouleur's Tours.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Tewdric on July 21, 2012, 05:33:26 pm
The current GC:

1 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Sky Procycling 84:26:31   
2 Christopher Froome (GBr) Sky Procycling 0:03:21   
3 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale 0:06:19

You have to pinch yourself to believe it.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Steph on July 21, 2012, 05:46:44 pm
Indeed! I got in last night, and watched the highlights of Cav's sprint. From in front it looked effective, but seen from overhead--ye gods! And not just the wiinner but second as well: that is just as Tewdric says.

Who fancies Froome for yellow next year, and Cav lined up for green?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: andrew_s on July 21, 2012, 08:09:49 pm
Brilliant, just brilliant by both Froome and Wiggo, and Richie P as well.  3 Sky riders in top 5 for TT.
a message to the Australian Olympic selectors?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Tim Hall on July 21, 2012, 08:41:41 pm
Did my eyes deceive me, or was Wiggins using egg shaped chain rings?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: simonp on July 21, 2012, 08:43:17 pm
Did my eyes deceive me, or was Wiggins using egg shaped chain rings?

http://www.trainsharpcyclecoaching.co.uk/products/chainrings.html

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimO on July 21, 2012, 08:46:09 pm
Did my eyes deceive me, or was Wiggins using egg shaped chain rings?

Yes, they've mentioned them several times on the ITV coverage.  I think that they also showed Chris Froome using them whilst he was warming up as well, so presumably he also uses them on the road.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Tim Hall on July 21, 2012, 08:49:36 pm
Ha! It's like Deja vu Biopace all over again.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Canardly on July 21, 2012, 08:50:31 pm
Was a joy to watch this today and you cant often say that thinks. What a team.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: road-runner on July 21, 2012, 08:53:13 pm
I noticed Froome's chain flapping about during his TT. Then I noticed the Biospace type crank.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Bledlow on July 21, 2012, 08:59:20 pm
Triumphal procession tomorrow.

"Mr Froome. How does it feel being the first British cyclist to come second in the Tour, after over 100 years in which no British rider has finished higher than fourth?"  ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimO on July 21, 2012, 08:59:41 pm
Ha! It's like Deja vu Biopace all over again.

Non-circular rings are one of those things which are periodically "invented", like solid tyres, drive shafts inside the chainstays, and clipless pedals.

Modern pedals are one case where they have eventually become mainstream, but most of the others just pop up every few years.  With rings, the orientation is also tweaked on each iteration, usually to explain why it's so much better this time than it was last time!  The shape also tends to change, often with the more extreme cases slowly being reduced, as Shimano did with Biopace rings.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 21, 2012, 09:16:08 pm
The thinking behind them is pretty solid though. And you can bet your bollocks to a barn dance Sky* wouldn't be using them if the numbers didn't add up.

Of course - if you really wanted to eliminate the dead spot - you'd just ride fixed  :P

*AFAIU Sky are not sponsored in any way by the manufacturers of said rings
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Basil on July 21, 2012, 09:35:33 pm
OK, be gentle with me, 'cos I don't know as much as you guys. 
Next year, Froome and Cav will not be riding for Sky.  Why would they?
Wiggin's oft repeated quote "Froome will win one year and I'll be there to support him" sounds too much like Tony Blair in the 90's responding to questions about Gordon Brown.
Sky have MONEY.  They've done a Man City.  But I don't think Cav will be happy earning shed loads of money as a bottle carrier.
Looking forward to next year when it's not so boring as Wiggo and Froome battle it out on different teams.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 21, 2012, 09:45:30 pm
Next year, Froome and Cav will not be riding for Sky.  Why would they?

I guess all that depends whether or not their contracts are worth the paper they're written on or not. I have no idea if they can just bugger off after a year like footballers seem to even after they've signed a contract for a zillion years...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 21, 2012, 09:50:06 pm
I don't think Wiggins will win it again.

I think this has been Wiggins at his peak and there are a few young riders who are capable of putting some time into him in the hills.

As for whether he'll ride as a "Super Domestique" and collect a few stage wins well that's what Cav has done.  Wiggins can still get 2 TT stage wins and pick up a million quid from SKY. 

What would be sad is if Wiggins went the same way as Cadel.  He's looked a fairly sorry sight at times.

However...a million quid is a million quid.

Edit.  Final TT.  31mph !!!!!  Way to go Wiggo.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Basil on July 21, 2012, 10:04:18 pm
OK.  'nuvver question from the one that doesn't know.  Has any team won the GC and Green Jersey in the same year?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 21, 2012, 10:07:38 pm
OK.  'nuvver question from the one that doesn't know.  Has any team won the GC and Green Jersey in the same year?

Merckx once won Yellow, Green and Mountains all in the same year. If the White jersey had existed then, he would have won that too! So yes!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Basil on July 21, 2012, 10:12:09 pm
OK.  'nuvver question from the one that doesn't know.  Has any team won the GC and Green Jersey in the same year?

Merckx once won Yellow, Green and Mountains all in the same year. If the White jersey had existed then, he would have won that too! So yes!



Bloody hell!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rogerzilla on July 21, 2012, 10:14:23 pm
Merckx was called The Cannibal because he left nothing for anyone else to win.  There is a replica jersey that combines all three winning categories (yellow, green and polka dot) although I don't know if Merckx ever wore one.

Wiggers is almost over the hill in cycling terms; 32 is old, although if he were really committed (and had the same team, which probably ain't going to happen) he might make three wins and equal LeMond*.  The peak age is about 29 for a grand Tour.

Froome could have five in him but he needs to work on his TT.  Nearly all recent winners, and quite a few older ones, won it by also winning the TTs.  There is just too much time at stake.


*the 1986 Tour, when he battled with Hinault, was what Froome could do to Wiggers next year if they're both still with Sky.

BTW, Wiggers' time today wouldn't have been shameful for a "25"...but it was a "35".

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: StuAff on July 21, 2012, 10:14:52 pm
OK.  'nuvver question from the one that doesn't know.  Has any team won the GC and Green Jersey in the same year?
Apart from Eddy (bobb posted while I was typing)... Yup, Telekom did it with Riis (GC) and Zabel (points) in '96, then again in '97 when Ullrich took yellow. Can't think of any teams that did it off the top of my head, must have happened though. Hinault took yellow & green in '79.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: StuAff on July 21, 2012, 10:21:00 pm
Merckx was called The Cannibal because he left nothing for anyone else to win.  There is a replica jersey that combines all three winning categories (yellow, green and polka dot) although I don't know if Merckx ever wore one.

There was a combination classification award, which he naturally won in '69 (and multiple other years). Rankings for those scoring all three of the other categories.  Awarded 1968-75, 1980-83, 1985-89.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Basil on July 21, 2012, 10:26:28 pm
OK.  'nuvver question from the one that doesn't know.  Has any team won the GC and Green Jersey in the same year?
Apart from Eddy (bobb posted while I was typing)... Yup, Telekom did it with Riis (GC) and Zabel (points) in '96, then again in '97 when Ullrich took yellow. Can't think of any teams that did it off the top of my head, must have happened though. Hinault took yellow & green in '79.

OK.  Thanks. 
It's not going to happen again though, is it?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: StuAff on July 21, 2012, 10:29:32 pm
OK.  'nuvver question from the one that doesn't know.  Has any team won the GC and Green Jersey in the same year?
Apart from Eddy (bobb posted while I was typing)... Yup, Telekom did it with Riis (GC) and Zabel (points) in '96, then again in '97 when Ullrich took yellow. Can't think of any teams that did it off the top of my head, must have happened though. Hinault took yellow & green in '79.

OK.  Thanks. 
It's not going to happen again though, is it?

Well, not this year. Liquigas might have done it with Nibali and Sagan this year if the Sky masterplan had fallen flat...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: clarion on July 21, 2012, 10:32:27 pm
Ha! It's like Deja vu Biopace all over again.

Non-circular rings ... periodically "invented"

;D Very good.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Basil on July 21, 2012, 10:41:00 pm
OK.  'nuvver question from the one that doesn't know.  Has any team won the GC and Green Jersey in the same year?
Apart from Eddy (bobb posted while I was typing)... Yup, Telekom did it with Riis (GC) and Zabel (points) in '96, then again in '97 when Ullrich took yellow. Can't think of any teams that did it off the top of my head, must have happened though. Hinault took yellow & green in '79.

OK.  Thanks. 
It's not going to happen again though, is it?

Well, not this year. Liquigas might have done it with Nibali and Sagan this year if the Sky masterplan had fallen flat...


Thanks for your tolerance Stu.   :thumbsup:

(Gosh - this is just like sitting in the Country Girl , pretending to the Cadbury lads that I know F all about football)

(Except this is actually interesting - and football isn't)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: StuAff on July 21, 2012, 10:46:34 pm
OK.  'nuvver question from the one that doesn't know.  Has any team won the GC and Green Jersey in the same year?
Apart from Eddy (bobb posted while I was typing)... Yup, Telekom did it with Riis (GC) and Zabel (points) in '96, then again in '97 when Ullrich took yellow. Can't think of any teams that did it off the top of my head, must have happened though. Hinault took yellow & green in '79.

OK.  Thanks. 
It's not going to happen again though, is it?

Well, not this year. Liquigas might have done it with Nibali and Sagan this year if the Sky masterplan had fallen flat...


Thanks for your tolerance Stu.   :thumbsup:

(Gosh - this is just like sitting in the Country Girl , pretending to the Cadbury lads that I know F all about football)

(Except this is actually interesting - and football isn't)

You're welcome :)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 21, 2012, 10:59:21 pm
Just speculating from a Basil-like position; this year we've seen a good deal of tension between Evans and Van Garderen, first as VG had to be restrained from riding away from Evans in the Alps (or was it the Jura?) then when he didn't stop for Evans' puncture in the Pyrenees, and today when he smashed him in the TT. Clearly VG won't be supporting Evans next year. We've also seen Froome have to wait in the mountains for Wiggins and there was the contentious though possibly mis-translated interview. So if Froome is expected to ride in support of Wiggins next year perhaps we'll see a VG vs Evans situation in Sky? That could be exciting but not good for British jerseys.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 21, 2012, 11:16:24 pm
Evans is too old to win again.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: gordon taylor on July 21, 2012, 11:32:24 pm
This TdF is awesome.
I'm watching, gobsmacked.
Dave Brailsford is a god.

98 years of pissing about and suddenly we're 1st and 2nd.

Good work from Sky too - clever management and investment.

This TdF is awesome!   :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 21, 2012, 11:33:07 pm
The assumption seems to be that Froome will win the Tour regardless of which team he's on. This is far from certain. If he joins another team, it better be one that can offer him the same level of support as he gets at Sky, or he could just end up being the next David Moncoutie.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: peliroja on July 21, 2012, 11:39:01 pm
We're very glad we managed to have an extended rest from our tour (we're currently in Santa Barbara) to catch up with THE Tour. What a race! The Californian sun outside has been neglected for a few days!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: gordon taylor on July 21, 2012, 11:44:22 pm
People that are close to me, who have previously considered cycling (in all its forms) to be naff, are now elbowing their way to the TV every night at 7pm and shrieking the names of Cav, Wiggins et al.

This is awesome!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 21, 2012, 11:56:21 pm
Methinks there will be many an overloaded bandwagon doing the rounds in thr future ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: road-runner on July 22, 2012, 12:06:19 am
Stage 19 result:
1. Bradley Wiggins (GB) Team Sky 1:04'13"
2. Christopher Froome (GB) Team Sky @ 1'16"
3. Luis-Leon Sanchez (Spa) Rabobank @ 1'50"
4. Peter Velits (Svk) Omega Pharma @ 2'02"
5. Richie Porte (Aus) Team Sky @ 2'25"

What was interesting here was that in the pre-race interview Peter Velits was coughing and clearing his throat, saying that he has been ill for a couple of days and will be glad just to get through the remaining two days. In the post-race interview he was clearly out of breath but still choking on phlegm and clearing his throat. I wonder what he could have managed if he was not ill. 3rd place perhaps? That was only 12 seconds outside his reach today.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 22, 2012, 12:30:52 am
Stage 19 result:
1. Bradley Wiggins (GB) Team Sky 1:04'13"
2. Christopher Froome (GB) Team Sky @ 1'16"
3. Luis-Leon Sanchez (Spa) Rabobank @ 1'50"
4. Peter Velits (Svk) Omega Pharma @ 2'02"
5. Richie Porte (Aus) Team Sky @ 2'25"

What was interesting here was that in the pre-race interview Peter Velits was coughing and clearing his throat, saying that he has been ill for a couple of days and will be glad just to get through the remaining two days. In the post-race interview he was clearly out of breath but still choking on phlegm and clearing his throat. I wonder what he could have managed if he was not ill. 3rd place perhaps? That was only 12 seconds outside his reach today.

I tried my hardest to care but I couldn't.  Sorry.

What I am dreaming about now is Cav winning in Paris.  If he does (which I just can't believe will happen, it would be too amazing) then I don't believe British cycling could ever get this good again.

British 1 & 2 on the Podium and Cav winning in Paris???  Could it really happen? The omens look good for the Olympics.

What a strange dichotomy, the French love and participation in cycling versus the general British apathy, and yet the British dominance in competition versus the French.......meh.  I mean 3 French winners in 45 years !!!  That's a fairly terrible return on what is considered a national sport.  Down there with England and Football.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 22, 2012, 12:43:27 am
Fair dos, Paul,  Those three winners did do it nine times between them, although it is still a meagre return as you say.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 22, 2012, 12:56:04 am
Even if Cav doesn't win the Champs Elysee sprint, yesterday's sprint win was incredible.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TheLurker on July 22, 2012, 07:17:09 am
Methinks there will be many an overloaded bandwagon doing the rounds in thr future ;D
Aye, and a short period of boundless and, alas, unfulfilled, optimism about everyday cycling such as commuting.  Even Chris Boardman was at it on the ITV4 summary show last night.

However what it might have done is shown the impressionable/interested youngsters of 8 or 9 years and upwards that it is possible to be British and to be a world beating cyclist and that has got to be a good thing for the long term future of sport (if not everyday) related cycling.

BTW, as an everyday cyclist, I desperately want to believe that CB is right about cycling becoming normalised.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: andyoxon on July 22, 2012, 09:38:22 am
Just wondering to what extent people reckon winning the TdF is a team effort? 
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 22, 2012, 09:44:40 am
Just wondering to what extent people reckon winning the TdF is a team effort?

I imagine at least all the riders in the TdeF who weren't riding for SKY.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: twiddler on July 22, 2012, 09:55:22 am
Methinks there will be many an overloaded bandwagon doing the rounds in thr future ;D
Aye, and a short period of boundless and, alas, unfulfilled, optimism about everyday cycling such as commuting.  Even Chris Boardman was at it on the ITV4 summary show last night.

However what it might have done is shown the impressionable/interested youngsters of 8 or 9 years and upwards that it is possible to be British and to be a world beating cyclist and that has got to be a good thing for the long term future of sport (if not everyday) related cycling.

BTW, as an everyday cyclist, I desperately want to believe that CB is right about cycling becoming normalised.

I'm not sure it requires belief as such, as unlike many schemes investing in social change, it appears that the new funding in the sport is being invested by those who understand the sport, and in parallel with investment in competitive cycling have been investments in inclusive grass-roots opportunities.  All of which benefits from the general resurgence in cycling, the increasing cycle route provision, investment in cycle training, the cycle to work scheme, the growing popularity of sportives and so on.  And unlike other sports, cycling has it's utilitarian aspect - having a tennis raquet or football doesn't help you if you need to get a pint of milk, so there's an obvious trickle-down.

I'm pleased for Halfords too, given their continued investment in the sport, i think their 'Tour de Francis' campaign has been well pitched - showing an ordinary bloke can take an ordinary bike and ride tour stages - and celebrating at the Champs Elysees suggests they must've had an eye for a British win.

It'll be interesting to see what happens today but given the team spirit and the lead out train (providing that train doesn't try leading out too soon again!) Cav must have a fantastic opportunity in front of crowds bolstered by thousands who've channel hopped, and then it's off to the Olympics, if Cav storms it today and they carry that energy into the Olympics then it will be huge, if they then blow everyone away at the Olympics then it'll go to another level - and then there's the trackies after that! 

But for me the best thing about watching Team Sky has been the commitment to team mates and teamwork (andyoxon - just re-watch the stages or listen to the interviews it is absolutely a team effort), same goes for likes of Chris Hoy, very modest and unassuming and very respectful of others in spite of his awesome strength - a great advert and a great example.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: IanDG on July 22, 2012, 09:59:04 am

What a strange dichotomy, the French love and participation in cycling versus the general British apathy, and yet the British dominance in competition versus the French.......meh.  I mean 3 French winners in 45 years !!!  That's a fairly terrible return on what is considered a national sport.  Down there with England and Football.



But between them they've won 9 tours. You don't have to go much further back to include Aimar, Pingeon and Anquetil - and another 7 wins

Go back to 1903 and France have 36 victories - twice that of Belgium.

Same could be said for other historically strong cycling nations - Italy, Belgium, Holland - the last 20 years (Tour de France) being dominated by Spain and America.

We've been dreaming of a British winner since Tom Simpson's 60's and have been beaten to the podium by the Irish, Australians and Americans :(

The French haven't had a bad Tour this year with stage wins and KOM.

I've been waiting to celebrate a British win since I started cycling back in the 70's - chearing Hoban's stage wins when listening to the results on Phil Ligget's daily radio report - let's not put other nations down in the process ;)

edit - by dominance in competition you are of course referring to their national Tour (and possibly extended to the pro road circuit). If you include track, MTB, cyclo cross, BMX - the French as a nation are not doing too badly in the cycle sport world.

Link to UCI rankings (http://www.uci.ch/templates/UCI/UCI8/layout.asp?MenuId=MTYzMDQ&LangId=1)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 22, 2012, 10:44:16 am
The assumption seems to be that Froome will win the Tour regardless of which team he's on. This is far from certain. If he joins another team, it better be one that can offer him the same level of support as he gets at Sky, or he could just end up being the next David Moncoutie.

d.

+1. I'm surprised at the number of people commenting on various fora who don't realise this. If they ended up in teams with cr@p rider support, strategy, tactics or technology, any of the Sky team would be less than they are now (and if I were Sky I'd be thinking about signing up Van Garderen and Thibaut Pinot).
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Domestique on July 22, 2012, 10:53:36 am
Is it clever marketing by Sky not to be showing the cycling on television?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nuncio on July 22, 2012, 10:57:13 am
Both Thibaut Pinot and Brad Wiggins pressed the stop button on the SRM computer as they crossed the line in yesterday's TT so perhaps TP has more of an 'Anglo'/Sky approach to cycling than some of his compatriots. inrng mentioned that Sky had been keeping an eye on him. 

Good news:  There will be an ITV4 camera in the Sky team car on today's stage.  Bad news: there will also be a James Murdoch.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rogerzilla on July 22, 2012, 10:59:16 am
Let's hope BSkyB don't outbid ITV for it next year.  With a surge in viewer numbers, Sky may well want it, although it's all generic coverage and they won't be able to bring in their own fancy $ky Sports camera angles.  Unlike a few football tournaments and Wimbledon*, the TdF is not one of the "crown jewels" that has to be shown on public TV in the UK.


*and, once, Test cricket, until Sky proved that money talks and bullshit walks.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: StuAff on July 22, 2012, 11:11:53 am
The assumption seems to be that Froome will win the Tour regardless of which team he's on. This is far from certain. If he joins another team, it better be one that can offer him the same level of support as he gets at Sky, or he could just end up being the next David Moncoutie.

d.

+1. I'm surprised at the number of people commenting on various fora who don't realise this. If they ended up in teams with cr@p rider support, strategy, tactics or technology, any of the Sky team would be less than they are now (and if I were Sky I'd be thinking about signing up Van Garderen and Thibaut Pinot).

+another 1. This year was clearly going to be Brad's best shot at a win- between his training regime and the route being (more) favourable to his strengths, regardless of the opposition. That was the plan Sky had, and they executed it brilliantly. If Froome had tried to do his own thing and attacked Brad I can't imagine it would do much for his career prospects (putting it mildly) and it might have well cost both of them the podium. If Prudhomme et al do make next year favour the climbers to a greater extent, then Froome probably will be team leader with Wiggo as plan B. And there's still the Vuelta and Giro to consider!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: delthebike on July 22, 2012, 11:39:49 am
Let's hope BSkyB don't outbid ITV for it next year. 
That reminds me.

Thank you BBC for losing F1 and now showing only highlights for most races. Today the German GP highlights start after the TdF.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Domestique on July 22, 2012, 11:42:09 am
Let's hope BSkyB don't outbid ITV for it next year. 
That reminds me.

Thank you BBC for losing F1 and now showing only highlights for most races. Today the German GP highlights start after the TdF.  :thumbsup:

Sky have a free weekend for their sports channels this weekend.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Martin109 on July 22, 2012, 11:52:10 am
Does that mean anyone can watch them, ie from Freeview??
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Dibdib on July 22, 2012, 12:16:55 pm
No, just that if you're a Sky subscriber that doesn't have the Sky Sports pack, the channels are unlocked this weekend.

Although the standard HD pack already has Sky Sports F1 HD and Eurosport HD so I'm sorted anyway.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 22, 2012, 01:54:26 pm
*and, once, Test cricket, until Sky proved that money talks and bullshit walks.

I've been watching some of the Eng v SA Test match this weekend, thanks to Sky Sports being free, and I realised how out of touch with cricket I now am. I used to be an avid follower and reasonably knowledgeable until Sky bought the rights...

If Sky want to buy cycling, they'll have to outbid not just ITV but Eurosport too - no point having it on Sky Sports when it's free to air on Eurosport. Not sure how they could tie up an exclusive deal in the way they've done with football and cricket.

Anyway, isn't part of the reason Sky back cycling precisely because it gives them loads of brand exposure on other channels?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: andygates on July 22, 2012, 01:56:01 pm
How long has Brailsford been working on this?  I know he said in interview that his Beijing plans started before Athens, and were part of an ongoing plan to develop talent in great depth.  That means that this Tour isn't just a one or two-year thing, ultimately, it's something like a ten year plan.

Props to the man behind the curtain. 
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Domestique on July 22, 2012, 02:24:24 pm
For some reason today I keep thinking what would have happened with the Linda McCartney cycling team if she hadnt passed away.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: road-runner on July 22, 2012, 02:27:23 pm
How long has Brailsford been working on this?

I don't know buy going by Sky's message on the forum (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=15834.0) 3.5 years ago he was already working on it then, with a 5 year target that has just been achieved.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: red marley on July 22, 2012, 02:29:59 pm
Some rather familiar riding at the moment for anyone who's done PBP. They also seem to be riding at (sub) Audax pace.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: iddu on July 22, 2012, 02:37:42 pm
The Danes/Norwegians @ Joan of Arc are going for it - the 20 kegs may be helping :-D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: StuAff on July 22, 2012, 02:38:27 pm
Some rather familiar riding at the moment for anyone who's done PBP. They also seem to be riding at (sub) Audax pace.

Only 40 km in the first hour and a half.....slower than usual race pace, but not that slow!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 22, 2012, 04:25:16 pm
Whooooooo!  ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Tewdric on July 22, 2012, 04:26:44 pm
YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! 

I'm blubbing...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: andyoxon on July 22, 2012, 04:30:20 pm
What a finish!  What a result!    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Basil on July 22, 2012, 04:45:26 pm
YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! 

I'm blubbing...

Oh good.  Not just me then.  I just got seriously emotional.
*sniff*
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 22, 2012, 04:52:41 pm
Christ, someone's strangling a cat now...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mcshroom on July 22, 2012, 04:55:29 pm
Christ, someone's strangling a cat now...

That was Lesley Garrett - and was complete carp 'cos she set off too high
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: PaulF on July 22, 2012, 05:01:24 pm
Some rather familiar riding at the moment for anyone who's done PBP. They also seem to be riding at (sub) Audax pace.

Only 40 km in the first hour and a half.....slower than usual race pace, but not that slow!

I'd be happy if I could hold that pace for 90 minutes!

Great result!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Steph on July 22, 2012, 05:02:20 pm
YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! 

I'm blubbing...

Oh good.  Not just me then.  I just got seriously emotional.
*sniff*

I is allowed to blub, I is a gurl. Bloody brilliant!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ewan Houzami on July 22, 2012, 05:02:50 pm
That would have been a whole bunch better if we had a half decent national anthem, and I was hoping Brad might say something witty to the Froggies in their native tongue. I did cry a bit though, and would have loved to have been there.

Bloody Hell, though, another (pseudo)Brit in second, and barely a mention. Pinch me.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TheLurker on July 22, 2012, 05:04:25 pm
Ok and the winner of the cuddly lion is ticket yellow 101.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: perpetual dan on July 22, 2012, 05:06:13 pm
what a speech  ;D

much excitement at perpetual towers  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Pingu on July 22, 2012, 05:07:14 pm
From Twitter:

Quote
Worst Ginger Spice tribute ever
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ewan Houzami on July 22, 2012, 05:08:43 pm
Ok and the winner of the cuddly lion is ticket yellow 101.

 ;D

If only he'd said that!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rogerzilla on July 22, 2012, 05:10:26 pm
(a) It's unbelievable.  There must be knighthoods in the offing for this.

(b) Lesley Garrett WTF?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Si_Co on July 22, 2012, 05:14:04 pm
Unbelievable it truly is, if someone had said last year there would be a British 1, 2 with multiple stage wins you'd have had them sectioned.

Great to see Voeckler take the polka dot and a good year for the French in general.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ewan Houzami on July 22, 2012, 05:14:29 pm
Did I miss the breakdancing?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 22, 2012, 05:14:51 pm
Fantastic!  I was just wondering: Are we the only country in the world to have a national anthem which is not about the nation but about the head of state?  Totally inappropriate at times like this - or any time.  Any time someone does well enough to win something, we have to worship the queen - what's wrong with us?  Play the tune, certainly, even if it is in 3 time, but not the words.

I can't think of another sporting achievement where a team has set out to do so many things, said they were going to and then done it.  Not even the great Australian cricket teams.  Who do you think could be a British challenger for King of the Mountains in the future?  Or is that going to be Froome, too?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 22, 2012, 05:16:16 pm


If Sky want to buy cycling, they'll have to outbid not just ITV but Eurosport too - no point having it on Sky Sports when it's free to air on Eurosport. Not sure how they could tie up an exclusive deal in the way they've done with football and cricket.


Plus. of course, all those foreign channels such as RBTF and France Televisions you can get hold of on broadband via Cyclingfans and Livez
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Honest John on July 22, 2012, 05:19:03 pm
I was just wondering: Are we the only country in the world to have a national anthem which is not about the nation but about the head of state?

The Spanish have got it right. No words, just a tune.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Si_Co on July 22, 2012, 05:20:37 pm
<snip>

  Who do you think could be a British challenger for King of the Mountains in the future?  Or is that going to be Froome, too?

If you believe the various fora / press reports Froome is gonna be a cycling god apparently

Heresy alert

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Manotea on July 22, 2012, 05:23:14 pm
(b) Lesley Garrett WTF?

Yeah, save all the faux jingoism for the last night of the proms, love. Whoever dreamt that stunt up were out of their minds.  All it did was steal the opportunity for a unique (to date!) opportunity for Bradley and the British crowd  to sing along to the national anthem on the champs elysees. I feel robbed...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Jurek on July 22, 2012, 05:23:44 pm
What a marvellous result.

Mr. Bridger would be most pleased.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 22, 2012, 05:26:24 pm
<snip>

  Who do you think could be a British challenger for King of the Mountains in the future?  Or is that going to be Froome, too?

If you believe the various fora / press reports Froome is gonna be a cycling god apparently

Heresy alert

(click to show/hide)

No, can't quarrel with that; Sky's achievement is phenomenal but sport is about romance for me.

ETA but Mark Cavendish's win was pretty romantic, too!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Tom B on July 22, 2012, 05:27:37 pm
Quote
Whoever dreamt that stunt up were out of their minds

It was so overblown it could only have been taking the p*
"We're just about to draw the raffle numbers"  - wonder how many miles of footnotes this will bring about in the extra-Britain press
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Pip on July 22, 2012, 05:28:38 pm
I started this thread back in June and have enjoyed every millimetre of the race, and all the banter on here.

Bradley has laid to rest Tommy Simpson's ghost and in doing so has achieved as much as any British sportsperson has ever achieved.

It is a great day and will linger long in the memory
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 22, 2012, 05:41:59 pm
I was just thinking about the incredible "Brad and Cav show" back in 2008 when they won the Madison to become world champions in one of the most exciting track races ever:

(http://www.zaribor.com/raz/pics/bradcavmad.jpg)

I never thought that 4 years later I would see them on the road, in the same team, wearing these jerseys on Avenue des Champs-Élysées:

(http://www.zaribor.com/raz/pics/bradcav.jpg)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: IanDG on July 22, 2012, 05:47:19 pm
What a day, great result!!!!  :thumbsup:

Been difficult for me though, dad's funeral 5 days before the start - the man who introduced me to the sport and an avid tour follower for many years, - 5 more weeks and he'd have seen the British winner he'd always dreamt about.

An emotional finish for me, I shed a few tears  :'(
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 22, 2012, 06:12:25 pm
I started this thread back in June and have enjoyed every millimetre of the race, and all the banter on here.

Bradley has laid to rest Tommy Simpson's ghost and in doing so has achieved as much as any British sportsperson has ever achieved.

It is a great day and will linger long in the memory
Agreed.

I'll certainly never forget seeing Brad, in yellow, leading Cav's train into the final 1km or so.

I will admit to shouting "Cav's gone too early" but it seemed he went at the perfect moment.  What a perfect final day...(if I try to forget Lesley Garrett's stupid wailing that is.  Singing like that should be kept inside sound-insulated Opera Houses)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: arvid on July 22, 2012, 06:26:27 pm
I was just wondering: Are we the only country in the world to have a national anthem which is not about the nation but about the head of state?  Totally inappropriate at times like this - or any time.  Any time someone does well enough to win something, we have to worship the queen - what's wrong with us? 

The Dutch anthem is about the leader of the revolt against the Spanish. Our royalty is of his descent. So that's more or less the same as yours.

Impressive British success. To celebrate I got a discount code from a British cycle clothing company: SIDEBURNS
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: AndyK on July 22, 2012, 06:31:55 pm
Well done Stanley Wiggins… who?  ::-)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Random/ohdear.jpg)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: clarion on July 22, 2012, 06:35:52 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BBEHBPqfIQ
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: red marley on July 22, 2012, 06:38:59 pm
Stanley Wiggins sounds rather Dickensian to me. You know, that sort of chap that might sport a fine pair of sideburns and wear a silly hat...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Nuncio on July 22, 2012, 06:49:44 pm
Christ, someone's strangling a cat now...

That was Lesley Garrett - and was complete carp 'cos she set off too high

Yes, she peaked too early.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: andygates on July 22, 2012, 07:02:40 pm
Weirdly Baggins. It was an adventure!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ewan Houzami on July 22, 2012, 07:08:44 pm
Yippee! It's on telly again!

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rogerzilla on July 22, 2012, 07:15:23 pm
Wiggers:  I didn't know anyone still wore iridium shades.  Must be a LeMond tribute  ;)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: andygates on July 22, 2012, 07:15:53 pm
GO ON JENSIE, STAY AWAY THIS TIME!

Aww.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Tewdric on July 22, 2012, 07:25:21 pm
Fantastic!  I was just wondering: Are we the only country in the world to have a national anthem which is not about the nation but about the head of state?  Totally inappropriate at times like this - or any time.  Any time someone does well enough to win something, we have to worship the queen - what's wrong with us?  Play the tune, certainly, even if it is in 3 time, but not the words.

I can't think of another sporting achievement where a team has set out to do so many things, said they were going to and then done it.  Not even the great Australian cricket teams.  Who do you think could be a British challenger for King of the Mountains in the future?  Or is that going to be Froome, too?

All three jerseys next year?  It's a thought..
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mike on July 22, 2012, 07:33:14 pm
GO ON JENSIE, STAY AWAY THIS TIME!

Aww.

we were cheering for him here, too!

agree on the anthem, not sure how impressed Wiggo was either: https://twitter.com/TelegraphSport/status/227081999691706369/photo/1
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 22, 2012, 07:33:56 pm
Watched it live on the telly wishing I was on the Champs Elysee. Wow! Nothing else covers it.

Just packed away the stuff after a celebratoruy BBQ fuelled by Belgian beer bought for just this outcome at a supermarket in Liege during the Depart.

Chuffing well don to Brad, Dave and all the boys that make up the rider and support roster for team Sky :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 22, 2012, 07:36:45 pm
It does seem hard that they will have to hold back from a big knees-up because the Olympics are so close.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rogerzilla on July 22, 2012, 07:39:56 pm
I wasn't the first to use the #sirdavebrailsford hashtag, it seems.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: andygates on July 22, 2012, 07:51:15 pm
How about #godemperorbrailsford ? Elevate him to the Lords immediately, we could do with some of this long-term smart focused planning in the wider world!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rogerzilla on July 22, 2012, 07:57:37 pm
LOL at the closing music to the ITV4 highlights!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 22, 2012, 08:06:19 pm
The 2012 Tour de France - a British Tour de Force!  8)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Toady on July 22, 2012, 08:14:09 pm
I will admit to shouting "Cav's gone too early" but it seemed he went at the perfect moment.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't quite a few recent Cavendish wins been from going earlier than "usual".  (Incl the World champs??)  Could it be no coincidence?  Perhaps going late, with HTC, was just by virtue of the quality of his leadout with HTC?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: robgul on July 22, 2012, 08:21:01 pm
LOL at the closing music to the ITV4 highlights!

... and with music - there's the Abba Dancing Queen spoof of "Lance is King"  ... any ideas for adapting a song for Wiggo?

Rob
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: IanDG on July 22, 2012, 08:27:23 pm
LOL at the closing music to the ITV4 highlights!

... and with music - there's the Abba Dancing Queen spoof of "Lance is King"  ... any ideas for adapting a song for Wiggo?

Rob

Here Wiggo round the mulberry bush?

IGMC
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 22, 2012, 08:30:53 pm
It does seem hard that they will have to hold back from a big knees-up because the Olympics are so close.

Has Christian been selected for the German Team? Riders like him, who do a lot of the unseen spade-work for victory, are often overlooked.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: bobb on July 22, 2012, 08:38:11 pm
Bring on the Olympics!

Also, Froomey indicated he'd ride the Vuelta. Then he could get in on the act and become the first Kenyan South African British rider to win that!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 22, 2012, 09:23:48 pm
It does seem hard that they will have to hold back from a big knees-up because the Olympics are so close.

Has Christian been selected for the German Team? Riders like him, who do a lot of the unseen spade-work for victory, are often overlooked.

like you, I certainly noticed him!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Veloman on July 22, 2012, 09:27:31 pm
Incredible TDF for the whole of Sky; Winner GC, 2nd overall, 6 stage wins.  Incredible for Bradley, particularly as so many scoffed when his TDF ambitions were evident, first with Garmin and then with Sky. Incredible for Cav to win again in Paris, be voted the best sprinter ever in the TDF and have 23 stage wins under his belt.

I’m hoping Chris Froome will have the support and freedom to win the Vuelta, and hopefully be given a crack at the TDF next year, particularly if it is biased far more towards the mountains in which he appears to be far stronger than Bradley.  Some say he could win a mountainous TDF all by himself such are his climbing talents.

Very happy and looking forward to the Olympic RR and TT.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Charlie Boy on July 22, 2012, 09:33:11 pm
Mr. Bridger would be most pleased.

I believe you may be getting confused with the Giro.  ;)
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 22, 2012, 10:16:35 pm
Has Christian been selected for the German Team?

No, but Bert Grabsch has - one of the unsung workhorses/heroes of Cav's train at HTC.

d.


Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 22, 2012, 10:20:56 pm
Well done Stanley Wiggins… who?  ::-)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Random/ohdear.jpg)
Please tell me you shopped that!  :o  :D
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 22, 2012, 10:22:40 pm
I’m hoping Chris Froome will have the support and freedom to win the Vuelta,

I'd love to see Froome win the Vuelta but he's just finished three gruelling weeks of the TdF, and he's got the Olympics road race and TT to come...

Will there be enough left in the tank for the Vuelta too?

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 22, 2012, 10:26:04 pm
Don't know about the Vuelta, but I'd have thought if he stays with Sky their machine would be capable of delivering another British (with colonial accent) yellow next year. Well, we can hope.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 22, 2012, 10:30:48 pm
With all this excitement in France, Sky also had a 3rd overall in the Tour of Poland that finished last week. Sergio Luis Henao Montoya of Colombia, top Brit was 34th, which is rather better than the top Pole in the TdF. The Sky machine has width as well as depth.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 22, 2012, 10:56:42 pm
:thumbsup:

Henao has had a great season - did a cracking job in the Giro too. I'd expect him to be one of Froome's lieutenants at the Vuelta.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: IanDG on July 22, 2012, 11:08:19 pm
1st story on the news, they even dragged David Cameron out to say how good the boy had done  :sick:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: spesh on July 22, 2012, 11:22:37 pm
(b) Lesley Garrett WTF?

Yeah, save all the faux jingoism for the last night of the proms, love. Whoever dreamt that stunt up were out of their minds.  All it did was steal the opportunity for a unique (to date!) opportunity for Bradley and the British crowd  to sing along to the national anthem on the champs elysees. I feel robbed...

Judging by the photo on the Telegraph sports section's Twitter feed, Wiggins feels sick.

http://twitter.com/TelegraphSport/status/227081999691706369/photo/1/large
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: peliroja on July 23, 2012, 02:57:57 am
What an emotional finish. There was even a bit of wetness in the Woolly one's eye when we saw Bradley leading out Cav. Sniff! A simply fantastic Tour.

(And is it just me, or does Wiggo not bear a remarkable resemblance to our very own Sgt Pluck when he's got his poker face on? Perhaps it's the black socks...)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Basil on July 23, 2012, 07:48:52 am
Heard a quote from a newspaper last night on R4.
"Previously, a British win in the TdF seemed as likely as the French winning the Ashes"

 ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: delthebike on July 23, 2012, 07:58:37 am
"We're just about to draw the raffle numbers"  - wonder how many miles of footnotes this will bring about in the extra-Britain press
I can only find one and that's from ITV4's TdF programme web site.
For those who missed it
http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/news/winner-wiggins-makes-amusing-podium-speech/
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 23, 2012, 08:17:28 am
Watched it live on the telly wishing I was on the Champs Elysee. Wow! Nothing else covers it.

Just packed away the stuff after a celebratoruy BBQ fuelled by Belgian beer bought for just this outcome at a supermarket in Liege during the Depart.

Chuffing well don to Brad, Dave and all the boys that make up the rider and support roster for team Sky :thumbsup:

My head hurts ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: ferret on July 23, 2012, 08:41:48 am
I really don't get it, before the dust has even settled and they've had time to enjoy their success  there is already talk of who's going to be riding for who next time, this morning on the interweb reports of "Cav can leave if he wants to", bit demoralising I feel, or is this a push before he jumps anyway ?
typical brits got to start fiddling, if it ain't broke leave it alone, I would have thought it would be better to get the olympics out of the way first, then sit down and discuss who's doing what, just my opinion :))
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Tigerrr on July 23, 2012, 09:22:42 am
I guess if you have a team in which there is so much top talent in its own right it cant hold. It was a fantastic achievement to keep it all together so well and Brailsford must take huge credit.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ariadne on July 23, 2012, 09:52:25 am
I really don't get it, before the dust has even settled and they've had time to enjoy their success  there is already talk of who's going to be riding for who next time, this morning on the interweb reports of "Cav can leave if he wants to", bit demoralising I feel, or is this a push before he jumps anyway ?
typical brits got to start fiddling, if it ain't broke leave it alone, I would have thought it would be better to get the olympics out of the way first, then sit down and discuss who's doing what, just my opinion :))

I don't think that's Sky's doing, it's just the media pushing and pushing for a story - and in this case it's about Cav being 'trapped' in Sky. Bullshit, but they need an angle and they nagged Brailsford until he either looked like a jailor or said of course Cav could go if he wanted to.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: matthew on July 23, 2012, 10:14:40 am
Cav is a top sprinter, unfortunately as the team was riding for the GC they chose on some 'sprint' stages to let the break survive as it was not a threat for the GC.

If Cav was on a team not riding for the GC they would have ridden hard on those days to bring the break back for a sprint finish. No other sprinting team felt that confident in their sprinters to put in the effort, unlike in previous years when HTC did and would. Cav himself said it was 'like asking Rooney to play in defence'.

Further once the GC was safe in the two last road stages Sky showed that the other teams were correct not to have the confidence in their sprinters as a committed Sky leadout train put Cav into an unbeatable possition given his tallents.

If Cav stays at Sky they are going to continue to ride for the GC with Wiggo, Froome and Thomas etc. for the next n years and the Green Jersey will not be the target only a bonus.

Cav needs to choose, is he a loyal super domestic who will win any sprint the team chooses to generate for him or is he a team leader who will chase sprint wins and will build a team to soley set him up.

If Sky had woken up in the first week to the fact that the safest place in the peleton in the last 10km is on the front and run a leadout train for Cav rather than try to keep Brad out of trouble they could have taken more stages and kept Brad safe.

This tour has seen Wiggo have sterling domestics from the rainbow jersey as bottle fetcher, to the Norwegian Champion and the No. 2 in the GC.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: LEE on July 23, 2012, 11:59:03 am

If Sky had woken up in the first week to the fact that the safest place in the peleton in the last 10km is on the front and run a leadout train for Cav rather than try to keep Brad out of trouble they could have taken more stages and kept Brad safe.


SKY seemed to do OK in the Tour.  Just my opinion of course.

GC (Brit)
3 Stages for Cav (Brit)
2 Stages for Wiggins (Brit)
A stage for Froome. (Brit)

I think we'd all have settled for that before the start.

We don't know what the effects would have been if Wiggins had been involved in countless Leadout trains.  Possible weakened himself for the mountains and TT.  It was clear that, once the GC was in the bag, Wiggins felt free to have some fun and help Cav but it was too risky to do this between Mountain stages.




Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: matthew on July 23, 2012, 12:03:26 pm

If Sky had woken up in the first week to the fact that the safest place in the peleton in the last 10km is on the front and run a leadout train for Cav rather than try to keep Brad out of trouble they could have taken more stages and kept Brad safe.


SKY seemed to do OK in the Tour.  Just my opinion of course.

GC (Brit)
3 Stages for Cav (Brit)
2 Stages for Wiggins (Brit)
A stage for Froome. (Brit)

I think we'd all have settled for that before the start.

We don't know what the effects would have been if Wiggins had been involved in countless Leadout trains.  Possible weakened himself for the mountains and TT.  It was clear that, once the GC was in the bag, Wiggins felt free to have some fun and help Cav but it was too risky to do this between Mountain stages.

Accepted, and this is the compromise Cav had to accept when Wiggins was such a strong favorite for yellow.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 23, 2012, 12:09:46 pm
Next year, Sky might feel more confident and also less pressured to deliver the first, long-awaited British yellow jersey, so maybe they'll be able to put more effort into getting Cav his train. Perhaps. Though I really think they'll continue to concentrate on one yellow jersey contender, whether that's Wiggo or Froome.

No other sprinting team felt that confident in their sprinters to put in the effort, unlike in previous years when HTC did and would.
Or no other team that didn't also have a GC contender - perhaps Sagan would have won the Green Jersey by an even greater margin if he hadn't been on the same team as Nibali?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 23, 2012, 12:12:52 pm
Don't forget as well that Sky had to be conservative in their efforts on the flat stages because they lost one of their key climbing domestiques on the very first proper stage. Things could have been different if, say, they'd been able to use EBH and Rogers more as leadout men rather than have them doing extra-long shifts in the mountains.

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Eccentrica Gallumbits on July 23, 2012, 12:30:00 pm
Part of Jeremy Vine's R2 show today will be about the Tour de France and whether winning it is as much of an achievement as winning Wimbledon, the World Cup or the Ashes.  ::-)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 23, 2012, 12:46:44 pm
Achievement for who? The individual sportster, the team, or do they mean in terms of 'national pride'?

What if Cav and Rooney swopped roles?  :demon:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 23, 2012, 12:56:47 pm
The achievement was highlighted by Brad's comment about drawing the raffle numbers at the end of his podium speech. I've been to countless events where that's what the winner does, after putting on the gold-coloured hat. The difference with cycling is that Bradley Wiggins might well turn up at the Levens '10', and draw the raffle prizes, so it's a victory for all those who baked cakes, donated raffle prizes, stood on roundabouts and entered events as middle-markers to keep them going. Cycling is amateur grassroots sport in the UK, similar to rowing in that sense, but more widespread and democratic.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Somnolent on July 23, 2012, 01:07:07 pm
The contributors selected to be on J Vine Show will be those who share the presenter's point of view... + a few inarticulate "nutters" to express the opposite point of view so as to give a sham appearance of "balance".
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: road-runner on July 23, 2012, 01:25:22 pm
... perhaps Sagan would have won the Green Jersey by an even greater margin if he hadn't been on the same team as Nibali?

Sagan looked liked a one trick pony, staying tucked in near the yellow jersey for most of the stages then following the lead out riders for the sprints and trying to outsprint 4 or 5 in the final 300 metres. One the whole it seemed to be a one man tactic. Cavendish came across as more mature and a better tactician.

Nibali could therefore afford to have the rest of the team ride for him. 3rd place shows he has the ability ... with a little help from his friends.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Karla on July 23, 2012, 01:59:44 pm
Cavendish raced his 6th tour this year, Sagan his first.  Give the guy a break!

The achievement was highlighted by Brad's comment about drawing the raffle numbers at the end of his podium speech. I've been to countless events where that's what the winner does, after putting on the gold-coloured hat. The difference with cycling is that Bradley Wiggins might well turn up at the Levens '10', and draw the raffle prizes, so it's a victory for all those who baked cakes, donated raffle prizes, stood on roundabouts and entered events as middle-markers to keep them going. Cycling is amateur grassroots sport in the UK, similar to rowing in that sense, but more widespread and democratic.

CTT's take on all this is that Wiggo is the first person to win the Tour de France and also the National 10.  Given the scarcity of foreign riders in British TTs, that's hardly surprising.

(http://www.ctt.org.uk/Portals/0/photographs/Nat_10_2011/A-Presentation_2124_1896.jpg)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 23, 2012, 02:03:33 pm
No sidies!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on July 23, 2012, 02:15:42 pm
... perhaps Sagan would have won the Green Jersey by an even greater margin if he hadn't been on the same team as Nibali?

Sagan looked liked a one trick pony, staying tucked in near the yellow jersey for most of the stages then following the lead out riders for the sprints and trying to outsprint 4 or 5 in the final 300 metres. One the whole it seemed to be a one man tactic. Cavendish came across as more mature and a better tactician.

Nibali could therefore afford to have the rest of the team ride for him. 3rd place shows he has the ability ... with a little help from his friends.
It's surely impossible to finish in the top three without support from your team. That Nibali did it and Evans didn't must reflect partly on the riders and partly on a better organised team. I wonder how well Van Garderen could have done if he'd been team leader rather than Evans? Quite possibly he would have cracked under the pressure. Or maybe not. Either way he's obviously a talent to watch for in the next few years (though personally I find I dislike him, but I might just be having a bad reaction to his accent  :-[ ).
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: JT on July 23, 2012, 02:35:06 pm
I was just thinking about the incredible "Brad and Cav show" back in 2008 when they won the Madison to become world champions in one of the most exciting track races ever:

(http://www.zaribor.com/raz/pics/bradcavmad.jpg)

I never thought that 4 years later I would see them on the road, in the same team, wearing these jerseys on Avenue des Champs-Élysées:

(http://www.zaribor.com/raz/pics/bradcav.jpg)

And I was at both!  :smug:  ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ham on July 23, 2012, 02:35:29 pm
The beeb's 10 reasons is fun http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18922103 especially:

Quote
Wiggins sometimes climbed 4km (2.5 miles) in the course of day's training, his power output constantly monitored by Kerrison, and plotted on graphs

I think this means I have the potential to win the TdF (at least in my dreams)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rhys W on July 23, 2012, 04:16:45 pm
You do realise he means 4km of vertical height gained, right?

The Bwlch is roughly 500m, so that's 8 times up it (from sea level at Port Talbot) in a day.  :o
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: marcusjb on July 23, 2012, 04:21:45 pm
I've had a little google around, but can't seem to find an answer - what sort of ascent amount are they doing on a mountain stage in the Alps or Pyrenees?

4000m a day is a lot in my book (recent Mille Alba was roughly that each day for three days - plenty enough for me!). 
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ham on July 23, 2012, 04:40:43 pm
Yebbut, I know I could do that, or at least could have done at my fittest, It's tough, but not superhuman - I'm sure many here could manage. I'd be more inclined to think they managed 25Km vertical training. Tourmalet day on the tour is more than double that climbing, isn't it?

(and yes 4Km is plenty and prob my limit, too)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: road-runner on July 23, 2012, 04:41:44 pm
L'Alpe d'Huez is a 1,100 metre climb. Many of the Alps and Pyrenees are taller so you only need 3 hills and a bit of up and down en route inbetween and there you have 4,000 metres climbing in a day's ride.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ham on July 23, 2012, 04:47:52 pm
Looking at the profile of stage 16, there was about 1500m, then 1700, then 400 then 600, so 4,200 or a bit more. Still think if they were training for climbing they would have done more.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: marcusjb on July 23, 2012, 04:54:13 pm
I can find ascent figures for individual climbs, but over a whole stage - must be way more than 4000m of ascent by the time you add up all the little ripples on the way to each of the big climbs of the day.

They certainly earn their money on mountain days!  I saw the rumour of two ascents of Alpe d'Huez (in one day) for next year's 100th anniversary running.  Ouch. 
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ham on July 23, 2012, 04:57:21 pm
Oh.... and on the Bandwagon front....

These guys http://www.bauduc.com/ who do decent wine (tenner+ a bottle in the UK, can be done in France without duty) are handing out one of these :

(https://i2.createsend1.com/ei/y/14/590/3BA/csimport/georgie_apron_yellow.120331.jpg)

With every order for > 12 bottles up to the end of July. I am curiously tempted.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ham on July 23, 2012, 05:00:52 pm
Damn damn damn.

I was going to avoid mentioning they are also having a free draw for 10 aprons, email freddie@bauduc.com with the subject "Yellow apron prize draw" but my honesty got the better of me.

One assumes you will go on their mailing, but as I said they are really quite decent, so what's bad about that?

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 23, 2012, 06:06:43 pm
The achievement was highlighted by Brad's comment about drawing the raffle numbers at the end of his podium speech. I've been to countless events where that's what the winner does, after putting on the gold-coloured hat. The difference with cycling is that Bradley Wiggins might well turn up at the Levens '10', and draw the raffle prizes, so it's a victory for all those who baked cakes, donated raffle prizes, stood on roundabouts and entered events as middle-markers to keep them going. Cycling is amateur grassroots sport in the UK, similar to rowing in that sense, but more widespread and democratic.
Hear Hear  :thumbsup:
Wiggo has gone up even further in my estimations this month, and that joke was the icing on the cake. Good for him.

(and I hope a few sportifs read your comment)


Edit: I've just seen the 'gold hat' in Bunbury's picture - they're hideous! Is that BB with him?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Hillbilly on July 23, 2012, 06:41:26 pm
I've had a little google around, but can't seem to find an answer - what sort of ascent amount are they doing on a mountain stage in the Alps or Pyrenees?

4000m a day is a lot in my book (recent Mille Alba was roughly that each day for three days - plenty enough for me!).

The French CTC (FFTC) put on events that could be TdF stages by distance and terrain, and they are generally in the low 4000m's range over 210km or thereabouts (these events are in the Jura, Massif Central, Vosges). 

Not sure of providence, but click the "preview" on the stage block to the right (you have to scroll down a bit) of the following page:

http://www.steephill.tv/tour-de-france/

Gives an "estimate" of the climb of each stage.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: IanDG on July 23, 2012, 06:54:12 pm
The achievement was highlighted by Brad's comment about drawing the raffle numbers at the end of his podium speech. I've been to countless events where that's what the winner does, after putting on the gold-coloured hat. The difference with cycling is that Bradley Wiggins might well turn up at the Levens '10', and draw the raffle prizes, so it's a victory for all those who baked cakes, donated raffle prizes, stood on roundabouts and entered events as middle-markers to keep them going. Cycling is amateur grassroots sport in the UK, similar to rowing in that sense, but more widespread and democratic.
Hear Hear  :thumbsup:
Wiggo has gone up even further in my estimations this month, and that joke was the icing on the cake. Good for him.

(and I hope a few sportifs read your comment)


Edit: I've just seen the 'gold hat' in Bunbury's picture - they're hideous! Is that BB with him?

If BB means Beryl Burton then no, she died in 1996.  Bradley didn't win it until 2011.

(I've got one of those gold caps - but more yellow (http://www.flickr.com/photos/acf_windy/7620989880/) in my time).
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: peliroja on July 23, 2012, 07:06:39 pm
http://www.burnleyexpress.net/news/local-news/tour-de-france-winner-bradley-wiggins-to-ride-in-east-lancashire-1-4764910

He's riding a cyclosportive in Pendle and the Ribble Valley in August - Barlick to Barlick via a few lumps (Nick O'Pendle, Trough of Bowland, etc). My home turf! Mum just reported he was being interviewed at a Lancashire crossroads saying it was a 'little bit overwhelming!'

I too loved his raffle comment, though I wish he'd said at least a few words in French. Cavendish was overheard trying to speak French in the early parts of yesterday's stage. He kept inquiring, "Was that right? Did I say it right?" :)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: microphonie on July 23, 2012, 07:11:14 pm
Oh.... and on the Bandwagon front....

These guys http://www.bauduc.com/ who do decent wine (tenner+ a bottle in the UK, can be done in France without duty) are handing out one of these :

(https://i2.createsend1.com/ei/y/14/590/3BA/csimport/georgie_apron_yellow.120331.jpg)

With every order for > 12 bottles up to the end of July. I am curiously tempted.

This cash-in by Howies is slightly better:  Sideburns of Glory  (http://www.howies.co.uk/saint-bradley-white.html?utm_medium=email&utm_source=Howies&utm_campaign=1499046_Side+burns+of+Glory&utm_content=SaintBradleyMain&dm_i=6IA%2CW4O6%2CL3BHA%2C2NN2W%2C1)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mattc on July 23, 2012, 07:21:43 pm

(I've got one of those gold caps - but more yellow (http://www.flickr.com/photos/acf_windy/7620989880/) in my time).
Brilliant! Maybe it's just the photo, but that looks a much more tasteful colour.
(I have no idea what/who/where GHS is - you should comment the piccie, no harm in blowing your own trumpet :) )
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: peliroja on July 23, 2012, 07:25:34 pm
Brilliant pic, Windy! You look so chuffed. :)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: IanDG on July 23, 2012, 07:32:29 pm

(I've got one of those gold caps - but more yellow (http://www.flickr.com/photos/acf_windy/7620989880/) in my time).
Brilliant! Maybe it's just the photo, but that looks a much more tasteful colour.
(I have no idea what/who/where GHS is - you should comment the piccie, no harm in blowing your own trumpet :) )

George Herbert Stancer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Herbert_Stancer). The CTT schoolboy 10 championship is a tribute to him and has always been known as the 'GHS10'.

edit - some guy called Chris Boardman (http://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/Competition/PastChampions/GHS/tabid/184/Default.aspx) won it 8 years after me.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Biff on July 23, 2012, 08:17:13 pm
Wiggo did suffer considerably in the Tour

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7lbhe29481qgxbpuo1_500.jpg)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rogerzilla on July 23, 2012, 08:39:22 pm
Did anyone notice that Wiggers' winning time was just about the same as the cut-off time for PBP?  And he had three weeks to fit in those hours, although he did manage to travel about 3x the distance.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: road-runner on July 23, 2012, 09:28:50 pm
So you mean he could get an audax card stamped for a 5,000km DIY?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: simonp on July 23, 2012, 09:43:54 pm
He would have been in time if it was a 5000km audax, you get 25 days. But his distance was around 3200. Too slow.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 23, 2012, 09:44:40 pm
I'm sorry I missed the celebrations at the Farmers Arms in Eccleston. In a bizzare twist the roads were closed yesterday for the UK Ironman, so they even had time triallists to cheer.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-18945486
But I was at the Mersey Roads.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Gareth Rees on July 23, 2012, 09:45:46 pm
The total distance was 3,496.9 km and the total time was about 22 days for an average speed of about 6.6 km/h. The Handbook says, "5.7 (i) The minimum speeds may not be altered and shall be: ... for events over 2499 km, 200 km per day [8⅓ km/h]" so I don't think the ride would be validated.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: simonp on July 23, 2012, 09:48:55 pm
The rest days and short time trial days cost him!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Notsototalnewbie on July 23, 2012, 09:59:23 pm


And I was at both!  :smug:  ;D

And I was with you the second time!
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8143/7632463366_b91eefd620.jpg)

Me and Rob had an absolutely brilliant day waiting and watching with JT & Mrs JT  :thumbsup:

I yelled and screamed like a woman offroading possessed  ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: rogerzilla on July 24, 2012, 06:40:50 am
The total distance was 3,496.9 km and the total time was about 22 days for an average speed of about 6.6 km/h. The Handbook says, "5.7 (i) The minimum speeds may not be altered and shall be: ... for events over 2499 km, 200 km per day [8⅓ km/h]" so I don't think the ride would be validated.
So we have proved that Bradley Wiggins is too slow for audax.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: JT on July 24, 2012, 08:48:40 am
The total distance was 3,496.9 km and the total time was about 22 days for an average speed of about 6.6 km/h. The Handbook says, "5.7 (i) The minimum speeds may not be altered and shall be: ... for events over 2499 km, 200 km per day [8⅓ km/h]" so I don't think the ride would be validated.
So we have proved that Bradley Wiggins is too slow for audax.

Amongst other things.  ::-)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: JT on July 24, 2012, 08:49:49 am


And I was at both!  :smug:  ;D

And I was with you the second time!
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8143/7632463366_b91eefd620.jpg)

Me and Rob had an absolutely brilliant day waiting and watching with JT & Mrs JT  :thumbsup:

I yelled and screamed like a woman offroading possessed  ;D

Rob took all that time and still managed to chop my head off?!  ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Notsototalnewbie on July 24, 2012, 09:03:47 am
 ;D

To be fair it was just a wee bit crowded...  :P

Haven’t brought myself to scrub off my Allezwiggo and Allezcav ‘tattoos’ off my arms yet. Have come into fairly smart office in a sleeveless top due to sunshine, and a director clocked them as I ran up the stairs. Luckily it was a director who has several nice bikes and cycle-commutes 20 miles each day…
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: JT on July 24, 2012, 09:07:52 am
;D

To be fair it was just a wee bit crowded...  :P

You call 10 deep crowded?  ;D

Great day though (and great company). A proper "I was there" moment to tell the dogs and cats grandkids anyone who'll listen.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Tewdric on July 24, 2012, 02:29:41 pm
The total distance was 3,496.9 km and the total time was about 22 days for an average speed of about 6.6 km/h. The Handbook says, "5.7 (i) The minimum speeds may not be altered and shall be: ... for events over 2499 km, 200 km per day [8⅓ km/h]" so I don't think the ride would be validated.
So we have proved that Bradley Wiggins is too slow for audax.

Although he went so fast in the Alps that he triggered the detectors at CERN.  Discovery of the Wiggs Boson is to be announced shortly.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 24, 2012, 02:32:49 pm
Blimey, Tewdric, that was a bit of a struggle!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Tewdric on July 24, 2012, 02:43:14 pm
IGMC..
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ham on July 24, 2012, 02:56:08 pm
As ever the Bigpicture is worth a view, although some will have been seen elsewhere

8, 20 & 21 are my faves in part one
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2012/07/tour_de_france_2012_part_one.html


21 prob in part two
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2012/07/tour_de_france_2012_part_two.html
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Russell on July 24, 2012, 03:27:29 pm
Is it coincidence that this crash happened right next to a camperwagon on an otherwise empty road?  The guy in yellow on the right is something to do with the 'van and was scrambling away as it happened.

(http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/tour_de_france_2012a/bp27.jpg)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Tigerrr on July 24, 2012, 03:30:28 pm
Is it coincidence that this crash happened right next to a camperwagon on an otherwise empty road?  The guy in yellow on the right is something to do with the 'van and was scrambling away as it happened.

(http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/tour_de_france_2012a/bp27.jpg)
Looks like a German Id say.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Zipperhead on July 24, 2012, 03:48:50 pm
As ever the Bigpicture is worth a view, although some will have been seen elsewhere

8, 20 & 21 are my faves in part one
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2012/07/tour_de_france_2012_part_one.html


21 prob in part two
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2012/07/tour_de_france_2012_part_two.html

Also, although some pictures are common to boston.com:

http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2012/07/the-2012-tour-de-france-part-1-of-2/100337/

http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2012/07/the-2012-tour-de-france-part-2-of-2/100341/

No. 40
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 24, 2012, 04:02:09 pm
Yeah, 40 is good :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: mcshroom on July 24, 2012, 04:36:43 pm
I like 38 (the one with Wiggins & EBH leading out Cav)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Veloman on July 24, 2012, 07:07:19 pm
http://www.burnleyexpress.net/news/local-news/tour-de-france-winner-bradley-wiggins-to-ride-in-east-lancashire-1-4764910

He's riding a cyclosportive in Pendle and the Ribble Valley in August - Barlick to Barlick via a few lumps (Nick O'Pendle, Trough of Bowland, etc). My home turf! Mum just reported he was being interviewed at a Lancashire crossroads saying it was a 'little bit overwhelming!'

Am I the only one to notice this ride is on Sunday 19th August, which is Stage 2 of the Vuelta 2012.

So either Bradley will not be in Barnoldswick, or he will not be in the Vuelta.  Now let me think where he will be!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 24, 2012, 07:24:04 pm
Indurain described the Vuelta as being like resits for those who'd failed at the Tour, when he was forced to ride it by his team in 1996. He abandoned and never raced again. He was 32 at the time, same age as Wiggins now.
Title: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 24, 2012, 07:44:31 pm
I read something the other day that described the Vuelta as having an "end of term party feel", which seems about right. The opening Team TT is a 16km procession that doesn't even count towards the overall standings.

After the Olympics, Brad's work for this year is done, isn't it? Unless he's expected to turn out for the Worlds...

d.

Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: JT on July 24, 2012, 08:32:34 pm
Hopefully Brad and Cav will ride the Tour of Britain to bring out the crowds - it would be a massive boost to the race.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Feline on July 24, 2012, 09:22:35 pm
Hopefully Brad and Cav will ride the Tour of Britain to bring out the crowds - it would be a massive boost to the race.

I certainly hope so! I want a photo of Brad's arse to go with my Cav's arse going up Cheddar Gorge pic from last year!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ant on July 25, 2012, 12:04:20 am
http://www.burnleyexpress.net/news/local-news/tour-de-france-winner-bradley-wiggins-to-ride-in-east-lancashire-1-4764910

He's riding a cyclosportive in Pendle and the Ribble Valley in August - Barlick to Barlick via a few lumps (Nick O'Pendle, Trough of Bowland, etc). My home turf! Mum just reported he was being interviewed at a Lancashire crossroads saying it was a 'little bit overwhelming!'

I too loved his raffle comment, though I wish he'd said at least a few words in French. Cavendish was overheard trying to speak French in the early parts of yesterday's stage. He kept inquiring, "Was that right? Did I say it right?" :)

Eek! This is the day after we return home to Doncaster from 3 weeks away on holiday.

Do you think I can swing it?

The start is about 2 miles from my dad's house (where I grew up).

And you said Barlick.

Barlick!!

I'm beside myself.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 25, 2012, 12:23:40 am
There's been a lot of talk on here about next year.  I haven't read every post (I don't think) but of those I do remember no-one seems to have mentioned Ryder Hesjedal, who won the giro but was unable to complete the TdeF.  Wouldn't he be a contender next year?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: peliroja on July 25, 2012, 02:36:18 am
http://www.burnleyexpress.net/news/local-news/tour-de-france-winner-bradley-wiggins-to-ride-in-east-lancashire-1-4764910

He's riding a cyclosportive in Pendle and the Ribble Valley in August - Barlick to Barlick via a few lumps (Nick O'Pendle, Trough of Bowland, etc). My home turf! Mum just reported he was being interviewed at a Lancashire crossroads saying it was a 'little bit overwhelming!'

I too loved his raffle comment, though I wish he'd said at least a few words in French. Cavendish was overheard trying to speak French in the early parts of yesterday's stage. He kept inquiring, "Was that right? Did I say it right?" :)

Eek! This is the day after we return home to Doncaster from 3 weeks away on holiday.

Do you think I can swing it?

The start is about 2 miles from my dad's house (where I grew up).

And you said Barlick.

Barlick!!

I'm beside myself.
Hehe. I know Barlick well. I used to ride my bike (and horses) around there. I am from Winewall, near Trawden. I'd try and get there if I were you!  :D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Peter on July 25, 2012, 10:15:24 am
You'll have done the Pack Horse climb out of Thursden a few times then?!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: citoyen on July 25, 2012, 10:44:03 am
Hopefully Brad and Cav will ride the Tour of Britain to bring out the crowds - it would be a massive boost to the race.

Forgot about that. That would be truly amazing.

When was the last time the World Champion and Tour de France winner rode in the Tour of Britain?

d.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: JT on July 25, 2012, 10:52:45 am
Hopefully Brad and Cav will ride the Tour of Britain to bring out the crowds - it would be a massive boost to the race.

Forgot about that. That would be truly amazing.

When was the last time the World Champion and Tour de France winner rode in the Tour of Britain?

d.

Probably never.

There were massively increased crowds last year when Cav rode it but it would go mental if Brad pitched up.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fuzzy (retd.) AAGE on July 25, 2012, 11:06:15 am
The Daily Mash take on things (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/bradley-wiggins-tells-the-french-to-eat-it-2012072335255?utm_campaign=25072012&utm_source=emailCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=)  ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Somnolent on July 25, 2012, 12:05:41 pm

http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2012/07/the-2012-tour-de-france-part-1-of-2/100337/

http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2012/07/the-2012-tour-de-france-part-2-of-2/100341/


#1 of Part 2 works well as my new desktop background. 
Thanks for the links
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 25, 2012, 04:32:30 pm
There's a sudden rash of Team Sky kit. I saw a fairly convincing wannabe this morning, in the full strip, including leg and arm warmers, and a yellow helmet with the air vents blocked up. He was coming over the bridge out of Eccleston at about 10am, he even had the sideburns and was riding a Pinarello Dogma. Oh, wait a second.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Recursived on July 25, 2012, 04:42:32 pm
There's a sudden rash of Team Sky kit. I saw a fairly convincing wannabe this morning, in the full strip, including leg and arm warmers, and a yellow helmet with the air vents blocked up. He was coming over the bridge out of Eccleston at about 10am, he even had the sideburns and was riding a Pinarello Dogma. Oh, wait a second.

Nice try: http://inrng.tumblr.com/post/27895463057/wiggobike (http://inrng.tumblr.com/post/27895463057/wiggobike)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Karla on July 25, 2012, 05:04:01 pm
From Michael Hutchinson's Twitter feed (https://twitter.com/Doctor_Hutch/status/227434388768575492)
Quote
I and my Brompton passed a fully Sky outfitted bloke on a Pinarello on London Embankment. He didn't like it. He didn't like it at all.

Lesson: if you see anyone who looks like this
(https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/833322305/micheal-hutchingson.jpg)
on a Brompton, don't challenge him to a commuter race.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Ewan Houzami on July 25, 2012, 08:45:21 pm
That pretty much sums up the way cycling has gone in London - with the poseurs commuting on £4k race bikes, while those who actually do race or test at high level generally incognito on worthless old hacks and foldies!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: onb on July 25, 2012, 10:37:45 pm
http://www.burnleyexpress.net/news/local-news/tour-de-france-winner-bradley-wiggins-to-ride-in-east-lancashire-1-4764910

He's riding a cyclosportive in Pendle and the Ribble Valley in August - Barlick to Barlick via a few lumps (Nick O'Pendle, Trough of Bowland, etc). My home turf! Mum just reported he was being interviewed at a Lancashire crossroads saying it was a 'little bit overwhelming!'

I too loved his raffle comment, though I wish he'd said at least a few words in French. Cavendish was overheard trying to speak French in the early parts of yesterday's stage. He kept inquiring, "Was that right? Did I say it right?" :)


,

Eek! This is the day after we return home to Doncaster from 3 weeks away on holiday.

Do you think I can swing it?

The start is about 2 miles from my dad's house (where I grew up).

And you said Barlick.

Barlick!!

I'm beside myself.
Hehe. I know Barlick well. I used to ride my bike (and horses) around there. I am from Winewall, near Trawden. I'd try and get there if I were you!  :D


Black Hill out of Sabden. :sick: :sick:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: tonyh on July 29, 2012, 11:39:54 am
Thanks Mr B. !
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Andrij on July 30, 2012, 10:15:05 am
Milltag is celebrating with a jersey (http://bit.ly/M55Igq).  I really like it.  But I don't need another jersey (even though Milltag ones are good).  Also, I'm not the yellow jersey type.  But I think it looks great. 

I think something like this would also make a great AUK-PBP jersey if the idea wasn't already taken...
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Pip on December 24, 2012, 09:45:56 pm
I have hazy memories of the summer 46 years ago when England won the World Cup.
Bobby Moore, Bobby Charlton, Geoff Hurst and Nobby Stiles became household names and idols to eight year old boys like myself.

In the world of cricket, Boycott and Edrich were the opening pair for England, and West Indian Gary Sobers was acknowledged to be the world's best all rounder.

Another often-heard name in those childhood summers was that of Tommy Simpson. In an era when Football and Rugby were played in the winter and  Cricket and Tennis was the only summer fare, in this alternative sport of cycling, Simpson's progress in the Tour was relayed back to us in Blighty by radio broadcast and maybe a mention in the sports part of the BBC's Six O'clock News. In 1966, Simpson finished second in two stages of the Tour before crashing out on a mountain descent.

The following year of course, Tommy died on the slopes of Ventoux.  This event acted as a catalyst for me to check up on the progress of British riders in ensuing renewals of the race, gradually becoming more absorbed and enthralled by the event, despite all its vicissitudes.

And now, after such a long span of time, we have an Englishman, Bradley Wiggins, who is favourite to win the Tour.

The parcours, with much TTing, favours him to a certain extent, and his form and the form and strength of his team is excellent. So let's hope that he can avoid mishap and arrive in Paris in July wearing the yellow jersey and thus inspire a new generation of youngsters to appreciate
the excitement and  benefits of cycling

45 years since Simpson passed away, and I think that it is fair to say that the inimitable style and panache of Bradley Wiggins has begun to inspire a new wave of interest in road cycling across the whole spectrum of age and gender.

What a truly great achievement it has been by Wiggo and Team Sky to realise Dave Brailsford's  ambition of winning the Tour with a clean British rider by 2014.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Tewdric on January 01, 2013, 10:05:57 pm
What a truly great achievement it has been by Wiggo and Team Sky to realise Dave Brailsford's  ambition of winning the Tour with a clean British rider by 2014.

An absolutely stunning, once-in-fifty-years achievement.  We will look back on this remarkable cycling year with increasing admiration as the seasons go by.

Unless he does it again this year of course..
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Notsototalnewbie on January 03, 2013, 11:19:14 am
Just saw on twitter that they're looking for 'tour-makers' in Yorkshire (presumably similar to the 'lympic Gamesmakers).
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Exit Stage Left on January 03, 2013, 11:35:09 am
Just saw on twitter that they're looking for 'tour-makers' in Yorkshire (presumably similar to the 'lympic Gamesmakers).

I do hope they revive the idea of volunteers wearing flat caps, as at the Manchester Commonwealth Games.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1855625.stm
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: TimO on January 03, 2013, 09:54:47 pm
Will they be issued with a traditional whippet each as well? ;D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Rainmaker on January 04, 2013, 08:43:07 am
Will they be issued with a traditional whippet each as well? ;D

Maybe, but they'll certainly be travelling by Yorkshire Airlines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm6VC5gdaFA
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: fungus on January 04, 2013, 12:19:51 pm
Milltag is celebrating with a jersey (http://bit.ly/M55Igq).  I really like it.  But I don't need another jersey (even though Milltag ones are good).  Also, I'm not the yellow jersey type.  But I think it looks great. 


That's really rather nice  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tour de France 2012
Post by: Redlight on January 04, 2013, 01:55:15 pm
"Milltag is celebrating with a jersey".

It is quite sweet but I'm not sure that I'd want to ride around with what appears to be a large target on my back  :-\