Yet Another Cycling Forum

Off Topic => The Pub => Topic started by: pcolbeck on October 10, 2012, 02:26:03 pm

Title: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: pcolbeck on October 10, 2012, 02:26:03 pm
Whilst watching an amp guru on YouTube explain about fettling guitar amps he pronounced "soldering" as "sodering" repeatedly. Also "soder" instead of "solder" He was American but still ...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Rhys W on October 10, 2012, 02:35:38 pm
For the last couple of weeks we've had to suffer the mangling of "Machynlleth" in more ways than I thought possible. The only person who could pronounce it correctly was the BBC's Rhun ap Iorwerth. Unfortunately, none of his BBC colleagues can pronounce "Rhun ap Iorwerth"...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on October 10, 2012, 02:42:53 pm
As someone with a 'ch' in my name (which is often usually mispronounced), I thought the BBC didn't do too badly.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: fboab on October 10, 2012, 02:45:19 pm

I'm fairly sure that focussing on his pronunciation (Yuman and reconise are my particular favourites) isn't what I was supposed to be doing as he guided me through replacing Gremlins with Autopilots.

Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on October 10, 2012, 02:48:29 pm
Pronounciation
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: fboab on October 10, 2012, 02:49:51 pm
*bzzt* deviation. That's spelling.

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: greenmeansgo on October 10, 2012, 02:50:03 pm
The letter "h" pronounced "haitch" instead of "aitch".
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Deano on October 10, 2012, 02:50:23 pm
'pacific.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: greenmeansgo on October 10, 2012, 02:51:33 pm
*bzzt* deviation. That's spelling.

 :facepalm:
I think she means the pronunciation of the word pronunciation as pronounciation.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: CAMRAMan on October 10, 2012, 02:57:57 pm
"pasta" said by people who say "par-sta"
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: rafletcher on October 10, 2012, 03:00:37 pm
Nulclear - John Craven does this all the time
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: pcolbeck on October 10, 2012, 03:02:42 pm
"fink" and "fing" instead of "think" and "thing", I'm all for regional accents and street slang but when your a middle aged academic with a doctorate lecturing in English at a major university and taking part in a discussion on Radio 4 that's just an affectation I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: fboab on October 10, 2012, 03:08:16 pm
No1Daughter says appairently.

We laugh rather than cringe though.

"fink" and "fing" instead of "think" and "thing", I'm all for regional accents and street slang but when your a middle aged academic with a doctorate lecturing in English at a major university and taking part in a discussion on Radio 4 that's just an affectation I'm afraid.
Quibbling about f for th when you write 'your' rather than 'you're' is a bit rich, isn't it?

Let she who can spell lightening lightning cast the first stone here, mind.

I'm constantly ridiculed by offspring for giving 'poor' two syllables. In my world, it's poo-er, OK?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: pcolbeck on October 10, 2012, 03:15:20 pm
Quibbling about f for th when you write 'your' rather than 'you're' is a bit rich, isn't it?

But I don't have a doctorate in English :)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: greenmeansgo on October 10, 2012, 03:30:19 pm
Quibbling about f for th when you write 'your' rather than 'you're' is a bit rich, isn't it?
You're right about your spelling, but this is a thread about pronunciation.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Wobbly John on October 10, 2012, 03:31:58 pm
That American orange grower on adverts on the television, who manages to pronounce oranges without the 'a'

orn-jez...


...WTF  ???
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: clarion on October 10, 2012, 03:52:00 pm
Who loves ornj soda?

Kel loves ornj soda!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Diver300 on October 10, 2012, 04:28:38 pm
Whilst watching an amp guru on YouTube explain about fettling guitar amps he pronounced "soldering" as "sodering" repeatedly. Also "soder" instead of "solder" He was American but still ...

IIRC, that is the normal leftpondian mispronunciation of the word.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: CAMRAMan on October 10, 2012, 04:35:13 pm
I hate it when people pronounce Jeremy Hunt correctly...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Peter on October 10, 2012, 04:38:02 pm
Who loves ornj soda?

Kel loves ornj soda!

This was immortalised by one of the moon-landers who picked up a handful of dust and exclaimed, "It's ornj!!!"  It's a catch-phrase in our family, now.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Clare on October 10, 2012, 07:39:34 pm
For the last couple of weeks we've had to suffer the mangling of "Machynlleth" in more ways than I thought possible. The only person who could pronounce it correctly was the BBC's Rhun ap Iorwerth. Unfortunately, none of his BBC colleagues can pronounce "Rhun ap Iorwerth"...

Reminds me of Llansantffraid FC winning the cup in 1996 and listening to Trevor MacDonald trying to pronounce the town name.

Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: PaulF on October 10, 2012, 07:50:00 pm
'pacific.

This!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: orienteer on October 10, 2012, 08:07:19 pm
It is increasingly common to see in print the mispronunciation of "would have" to "would of". I guess that in childhood people hear "would've" and misunderstand it as "would of".
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on October 10, 2012, 08:10:42 pm
Nulclear - John Craven does this all the time

Nukular for 'nuclear'...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Auntie Helen on October 10, 2012, 08:17:55 pm
I don't think it makes me cringe as such but I am interested in the variety of pronunciation of "mountain". I say it "Mountin" but some people (for example Wowbagger) give a definite "aine" at the end.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Arch on October 10, 2012, 08:49:09 pm
"fink" and "fing" instead of "think" and "thing", I'm all for regional accents and street slang but when your a middle aged academic with a doctorate lecturing in English at a major university and taking part in a discussion on Radio 4 that's just an affectation I'm afraid.

My ex-boss at Velo Vision says 'fing' and 'fink'. It's just his accent/speaking voice, no affectation.

I'm sure someone on here recently said they can't hear the difference between f and th. Just an oddity of human senses, I guess, like colour blindness.

Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on October 10, 2012, 08:52:28 pm
It is increasingly common to see in print the mispronunciation of "would have" to "would of". I guess that in childhood people hear "would've" and misunderstand it as "would of".

Indeed.  I only learned about "would have" several years after I learned to write, when teachers started to care about that sort of error.  The combination of hearing loss and estuary accents meant that I was extremely confused by the correction.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on October 10, 2012, 08:55:50 pm
It is increasingly common to see in print the mispronunciation of "would have" to "would of". I guess that in childhood people hear "would've" and misunderstand it as "would of".

Indeed.  I only learned about "would have" several years after I learned to write, when teachers started to care about that sort of error.  The combination of hearing loss and estuary accents meant that I was extremely confused by the correction.

Whereas I had it drummed out of me before I was 11...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on October 10, 2012, 09:03:32 pm
Indeed.  I only learned about "would have" several years after I learned to write, when teachers started to care about that sort of error.  The combination of hearing loss and estuary accents meant that I was extremely confused by the correction.

Whereas I had it drummed out of me before I was 11...

So did I:  Teachers started to care about that sort of mistake in written work when I was about 8 or 9.

I still can't really hear the difference in speech, unless the person doesn't use the contraction.  I expect an awful lot have[1] people are saying it as "of" instead of "uv", even when aware of the difference.


[1] I made that counter-mistake for a while, until I'd sorted out that they were two different things.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: tonycollinet on October 10, 2012, 09:45:27 pm
What about I'd've - as in I'd've gone home if I needed to .

Double contraction of I would have. Is the 've there also pronounced I'd of?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ashaman42 on October 10, 2012, 10:16:30 pm
"fink" and "fing" instead of "think" and "thing", I'm all for regional accents and street slang but when your a middle aged academic with a doctorate lecturing in English at a major university and taking part in a discussion on Radio 4 that's just an affectation I'm afraid.

My ex-boss at Velo Vision says 'fing' and 'fink'. It's just his accent/speaking voice, no affectation.

I'm sure someone on here recently said they can't hear the difference between f and th. Just an oddity of human senses, I guess, like colour blindness.

I'm that oddity  ;D

I used to pronounce (and sms) something as somethink. But only to one person as I knew it really annoyed her to hear/read it. Perhaps I should send her the link to this thread (fred?!)  :demon:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Arch on October 10, 2012, 10:19:48 pm
"fink" and "fing" instead of "think" and "thing", I'm all for regional accents and street slang but when your a middle aged academic with a doctorate lecturing in English at a major university and taking part in a discussion on Radio 4 that's just an affectation I'm afraid.

My ex-boss at Velo Vision says 'fing' and 'fink'. It's just his accent/speaking voice, no affectation.

I'm sure someone on here recently said they can't hear the difference between f and th. Just an oddity of human senses, I guess, like colour blindness.

I'm that oddity  ;D

I used to pronounce (and sms) something as somethink. But only to one person as I knew it really annoyed her to hear/read it. Perhaps I should send her the link to this thread (fred?!)  :demon:

Apologies for the word 'oddity' - although such is the variation in our species, we're all oddities one way or another!

My Mum struggles to say 'linen'. 

Whenever I see the little machine that brushes rubbish of the road, I call it a Sweet Streeper. I simply cannot get it right first time, unless I talk ludicrously slowly.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ashaman42 on October 10, 2012, 10:47:32 pm
Ah no worries, I'm quite happy being an oddity  :thumbsup:

I often flip words in a sentence too (I know there's a word for that, named after someone who was famous for it), like earlier I referred to finding 'a cupboard to put in the bin' when I meant quite the opposite.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Peter on October 11, 2012, 08:18:48 am
What about I'd've - as in I'd've gone home if I needed to .

Double contraction of I would have. Is the 've there also pronounced I'd of?

Frequently, but it shouldn't be!  Eyeduv is the nearest I can get to it.  As referred to by Orienteer, it's common to see the sound actually written as of, which shows an innocent misunderstanding of the original word, have.  Curiously, both words are connected with possession!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Bledlow on October 11, 2012, 02:20:44 pm
"fink" and "fing" instead of "think" and "thing", I'm all for regional accents and street slang but when your a middle aged academic with a doctorate lecturing in English at a major university and taking part in a discussion on Radio 4 that's just an affectation I'm afraid.

My ex-boss at Velo Vision says 'fing' and 'fink'. It's just his accent/speaking voice, no affectation.

I'm sure someone on here recently said they can't hear the difference between f and th. Just an oddity of human senses, I guess, like colour blindness.
Mrs B rarely gets 'l' & 'r' wrong, although she grew up speaking a language in which there's no distinction between them, & has no problems with 'think' & 'that', although Japanese doesn't have either  of the sounds we write 'th'.

Unless you have a hearing impairment, there's no excuse.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Palinurus on October 12, 2012, 12:51:49 pm
Whilst watching an amp guru on YouTube explain about fettling guitar amps he pronounced "soldering" as "sodering" repeatedly. Also "soder" instead of "solder" He was American but still ...

They all say it that way. I've worked in solder for years, I still find it oddly annoying.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: gibbo on October 12, 2012, 01:33:56 pm
Whilst watching an amp guru on YouTube explain about fettling guitar amps he pronounced "soldering" as "sodering" repeatedly. Also "soder" instead of "solder" He was American but still ...

They all say it that way. I've worked in solder for years, I still find it oddly annoying.

I picked this up when I lived there and worked with electronics engineers. The mechanical engineers would laugh at me for saying aluminium as opposed to aluminum - I refused to bow to peer pressure. I digress. My Dad says "darta" for data.

Another Americanism is erb instead of herb.

Gibbo.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Andrij on October 12, 2012, 01:40:19 pm
An 'erb is a type of plant, whereas h(H)erb is short for Herbert.  :smug:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: bobb on October 12, 2012, 01:55:59 pm
I don't think it makes me cringe as such but I am interested in the variety of pronunciation of "mountain". I say it "Mountin" but some people (for example Wowbagger) give a definite "aine" at the end.

My mother says mountaine, fountaine etc etc. She says it's because she grew up in south London rather than east or north London where it would be mountin, fountin... Or should that be Maaaaaaahntin and Faaaaaahntin?

Anyway, my sister always says aine, I always say in. Seeing as we didn't grow up in London, I don't know why we say it differently. Maybe it's because my sister is posher than I am. Or at least wants to be  :P
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on October 12, 2012, 06:09:36 pm
I picked this up when I lived there and worked with electronics engineers. The mechanical engineers would laugh at me for saying aluminium as opposed to aluminum - I refused to bow to peer pressure.

Wasn't there an IUPAC compromise in the early 90s, where we got 'aluminium' in exchange for 'sulfur'?  Seems like a fair deal to me.

As for cross disciplinary hysterics, I once gave a whole table of mathematician and physicist types the giggles by referring to the square root of -1 as 'j'.  On explaining the basis of the habit, they laughed harder.  Reckon they need to get out more.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: greenmeansgo on October 13, 2012, 04:23:58 pm
As for cross disciplinary hysterics, I once gave a whole table of mathematician and physicist types the giggles by referring to the square root of -1 as 'j'.  On explaining the basis of the habit, they laughed harder.
;D
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Arch on October 13, 2012, 09:03:27 pm
"fink" and "fing" instead of "think" and "thing", I'm all for regional accents and street slang but when your a middle aged academic with a doctorate lecturing in English at a major university and taking part in a discussion on Radio 4 that's just an affectation I'm afraid.

My ex-boss at Velo Vision says 'fing' and 'fink'. It's just his accent/speaking voice, no affectation.

I'm sure someone on here recently said they can't hear the difference between f and th. Just an oddity of human senses, I guess, like colour blindness.
Mrs B rarely gets 'l' & 'r' wrong, although she grew up speaking a language in which there's no distinction between them, & has no problems with 'think' & 'that', although Japanese doesn't have either  of the sounds we write 'th'.

Unless you have a hearing impairment, there's no excuse.

Well, bully for Mrs B.

Did you mean to sound quite so patronising and superior?  Are we all to speak without accents of any kind?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Tim Hall on October 13, 2012, 09:27:24 pm
"Seckrertree", as heard on Her Majesty's British Broadcasting Corporation.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Bledlow on October 14, 2012, 11:06:46 pm
"fink" and "fing" instead of "think" and "thing", I'm all for regional accents and street slang but when your a middle aged academic with a doctorate lecturing in English at a major university and taking part in a discussion on Radio 4 that's just an affectation I'm afraid.

My ex-boss at Velo Vision says 'fing' and 'fink'. It's just his accent/speaking voice, no affectation.

I'm sure someone on here recently said they can't hear the difference between f and th. Just an oddity of human senses, I guess, like colour blindness.
Mrs B rarely gets 'l' & 'r' wrong, although she grew up speaking a language in which there's no distinction between them, & has no problems with 'think' & 'that', although Japanese doesn't have either  of the sounds we write 'th'.

Unless you have a hearing impairment, there's no excuse.

Well, bully for Mrs B.

Did you mean to sound quite so patronising and superior?  Are we all to speak without accents of any kind?
Don't be bloody stupid. Did I mention accents? Did I claim that Mrs B speaks English with no discernible Japanese accent? Or suggest that would be desirable?

I'm talking about willingness to take the care to pronounce standard English, not an accent. Look at the job of the person in question. He should be willing to say 'thing' & 'think' in his professional life, even if he is more comfortable saying 'fing' & 'fink' at home, or in the pub. where, BTW, I wouldn't criticise him for it.

Or do you think it's acceptable for Mrs B to say 'fing' & 'fink' when she's at work? After all, voiced & unvoiced 'th' aren't sounds that occur in her native language. Of course, it could have a negative impact on the quality of some of the speech therapy she does (in English), but that's less important than her freedom to speak with her native set of phonemes, isn't it? Dammit, why not go the whole hog: why can't she just do her job in Japanese?

If the academic mentioned was, say, a mathematician or archaeologist, I wouldn't give a damn how he pronounces anything, as long as it's comprehensible. But he isn't.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Auntie Helen on November 05, 2012, 04:42:28 pm
Evan Davis on the Bottom Line on Radio 4 yesterday said "segs" for "segues" (segways)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Arch on November 05, 2012, 06:51:57 pm


If the academic mentioned was, say, a mathematician or archaeologist, I wouldn't give a damn how he pronounces anything, as long as it's comprehensible. But he isn't.

I've never had a problem comprehending someone who says 'fink' and 'fing'. I simply translate in my head.  For one thing, 'fink' and 'fing' aren't words in common use in English, so it's not like I might confuse the meaning.

Yeah, maybe it matters to a speech therapist. But an academic, even in English? Wouldn't bother me.


Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Bledlow on November 05, 2012, 08:39:15 pm
I have heard the following recently, both from Americans.

Fetish - pronounced feetish (a professor on Radio 4).
Character - with the initial ch pronounced as in church.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: fboab on November 06, 2012, 10:04:00 pm
I've just been to a first aid class.

This, is a (pair of) tong(s)
(http://www.procook.co.uk/images/library/stock/originals/4827.jpg)

This is a tongue.
(http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae7/fboab/tongue.jpg)

Putting someone in the recovery position does not stop tongs from blocking your airway.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Biff on November 09, 2012, 09:14:20 pm
Janury, Febry, jewllery.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: barakta on November 10, 2012, 01:36:24 am
Janury, Febry, jewllery.

What's wrong with the first and third of those?  That's what they sound like to me.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Biff on November 10, 2012, 01:58:55 am
Janury, Febry, jewlery.

What's wrong with the first and third of those?  That's what they sound like to me.

January, jewelry not jew-lery
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on November 10, 2012, 03:57:19 pm
I don't think you're hearing's good enough for the 'a' in January unless spoken in low-speed RP, barakta.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hubner on November 10, 2012, 11:42:15 pm
Janury, Febry, jewlery.

What's wrong with the first and third of those?  That's what they sound like to me.

January, jewelry not jew-lery

Library
century
comfortable
fifth
laboratory
history
postman
temperature
vegetable
family?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Bledlow on November 10, 2012, 11:47:06 pm
Fambly  ;D
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Séamas M. on November 11, 2012, 03:58:23 pm
Janury, Febry, ..

ecksetera  :hand:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mrs Pingu on November 11, 2012, 04:21:15 pm
Aks

And another vote for 'pacific  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Auntie Helen on November 11, 2012, 04:45:27 pm
Have I mentioned this one before:

When doing the Christmas reading at church a couple of years ago, the 12-year-old who has been going to church her whole life pronounced Pontius Pilate as "pee-lah-tay", like the exercise. Fab!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on November 11, 2012, 04:52:29 pm
Have I mentioned this one before:

When doing the Christmas reading at church a couple of years ago, the 12-year-old who has been going to church her whole life pronounced Pontius Pilate as "pee-lah-tay", like the exercise. Fab!

Had he sung a Mass?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: fboab on February 22, 2013, 08:33:37 am
This word:

WHOLLY

is surely not pronounced the same as this one:

HOLLY.

Caitlin Moran, I'm enjoying your book, and your reading isn't bad, but if you're going to use this word:

WHOLLY

PLEASE

could you say wholly (http://www.merriam-webster.com/audio.php?file=wholly01&word=wholly&text=%5C%3Cspan%20class%3D%22unicode%22%3E%CB%88%3C%2Fspan%3Eh%C5%8D(l)-l%C4%93%5C)?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: phantasmagoriana on May 08, 2013, 11:07:32 pm
"Temporarily" pronounced as "temporally".
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: fboab on May 09, 2013, 09:51:34 am
Really. You're reading an audio book. I cannot believe the character you're enacting would say 'pacific'. Actor, read your lines.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Graymee on May 11, 2013, 11:51:07 am
I can't believe no one has mentioned ambleeance or spatchlier (ambulance or spatula) yet.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: fboab on September 02, 2014, 03:00:49 pm
Colleague.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Iel3IXJ_g7A/STVZoxXvV1I/AAAAAAAAGHA/oIc4nMIHsbM/s400/panettone.jpg)
is not
(http://www.pantone.co.uk/images/zoomify/GP1501/GP1501_files/10/1_0.jpg)

Every. Fucking. Day.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: fboab on September 02, 2014, 03:03:52 pm
... and while we're on

'gentian' does not rhyme with 'venetian'.
 :hand:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Polar Bear on September 02, 2014, 03:09:42 pm
I know somebody who pronounces Wolverhampton as Woe-ver-hampton.

It's entirely understandable!   :D
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Wowbagger on September 02, 2014, 03:22:42 pm
Colleague.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Iel3IXJ_g7A/STVZoxXvV1I/AAAAAAAAGHA/oIc4nMIHsbM/s400/panettone.jpg)
is not
(http://www.pantone.co.uk/images/zoomify/GP1501/GP1501_files/10/1_0.jpg)

Every. Fucking. Day.

I don't understand that. Fruit cake? Paint colours?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: fboab on September 02, 2014, 03:26:41 pm
Pantone/ pannetone
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pickled Onion on October 12, 2014, 09:58:13 am
Native English speakers, especially experts who should know better, insisting on pronouncing words as they are spelled. If you've been speaking English your whole life you might have noticed the language doesn't work like that.

Examples:

Dementia specialist on Inside Science who pronounced his own subject as di-men-tee-a.

News editor/producer on Feedback pronouncing ebola as ebba-la. Well, maybe in Spanish, but then it's spelled ébola, surely you've heard the word in your own news programme once or twice recently?

The one that takes the prize: guest on Inside Science (again) who kept saying "these woman are..." and "hundreds of woman", etc. On listening closer he was actually pronouncing the "-en" at the end, but otherwise identical to the singular. Seriously? It may be logically correct, but if 100% of everyone else doesn't say it like that, it's wrong!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on October 12, 2014, 10:30:18 am
Do you think that person might have hearing difficulties?
It's easy for me as a heary to say, one wooman, two wimmin but how might a deafie say this?

I find the misspelling of the adult female at least as cringeworthy. One man two men, on woman, two women. Should be simples but isn't.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pickled Onion on October 12, 2014, 10:37:19 am
Good point - I should add that all the people in the above had perfect RP in every other respect.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Plug1n on October 12, 2014, 11:53:57 am
Radio 3 announcers who say "Bark", as in Bark's Cantata .....
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on October 12, 2014, 12:18:07 pm
Ms Vecht accepts loads of Brits can't do a guttural 'ch'. Twas ever thus.
I've lived with it for >50 years.

What got me more at school was people calling Wolfgang Amadeus 'Mozart' with a buzzing z.

Inability to do gutturals is understandable; unwillingness to do the easy ts instead of z is just wrong.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on October 12, 2014, 12:39:27 pm
ISTR Iain Banks being very cross with the English inability to pronounce words such as "loch" correctly suddenly disappearing with the advent of Gulf War v1.0, when the BBC miraculously became able to say "Bach-rain" instead of "Bar-rain".

War, what is it good for ???
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: De Sisti on October 12, 2014, 12:45:20 pm
New-car-sul
Glars-go


I bet most southerners cringe when they pronounce Glastonbury. ;D
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Diver300 on October 12, 2014, 01:20:42 pm
The drought beer that I was offered recently.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on October 12, 2014, 02:22:04 pm
I bet most southerners cringe when they pronounce Glastonbury. ;D

Quote from: nb10
You call Glastonbury “Glasto”
You’d like to go there one day
When they’ve put up the gun towers
To keep the hippies away
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Steph on October 12, 2014, 02:41:35 pm
Really, correct pronunciation is often a mute point....
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mrs Pingu on October 12, 2014, 02:42:12 pm
Sang-wich
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: sg37409 on October 12, 2014, 02:54:52 pm
Sang-wich

Yes that gets my goat. Every one knows its sang-widgees.
pfff.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on October 12, 2014, 03:55:22 pm
Or samwidges.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Wowbagger on October 12, 2014, 03:57:52 pm
Wasn't Samwidge Gamgee one of the hobbits?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: orienteer on October 12, 2014, 04:11:05 pm
If you live there, depends which end of town:

Gerrards Crawss, or Cross

So- li - hull, or Solly 'ole
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: mattc on October 12, 2014, 05:10:54 pm
New-car-sul
Glars-go


I bet most southerners cringe when they pronounce Glastonbury. ;D
I hope you won't mind if I stick with
"Paris"
Instead of "Par-ee"

(At least while I'm in the UK)
:-P

Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on October 12, 2014, 05:34:01 pm
New-car-sul
Glars-go


I bet most southerners cringe when they pronounce Glastonbury. ;D
I hope you won't mind if I stick with
"Paris"
Instead of "Par-ee"

(At least while I'm in the UK)
:-P

Except when it's Gay or wrapped around Brest.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Bledlow on October 12, 2014, 05:49:11 pm
Ms Vecht accepts loads of Brits can't do a guttural 'ch'. Twas ever thus.
I've lived with it for >50 years.

What got me more at school was people calling Wolfgang Amadeus 'Mozart' with a buzzing z.

Inability to do gutturals is understandable; unwillingness to do the easy ts instead of z is just wrong.
USian influence?

I recall Mr Benjamin Abruzzo, the first person to fly across the Atlantic by balloon, getting rather short-tempered with non-USians who addressed him as Mr Abrutso. He insisted on A-bruise-o.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on October 12, 2014, 06:11:59 pm
Someone who shall remain nameless, new to Devon, went into a shop and asked for a pasty. She rhymed it with tasty.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: mattc on October 12, 2014, 06:20:00 pm
Someone who shall remain nameless, new to Devon, went into a shop and asked for a pasty. She rhymed it with tasty.
I am very innocent, but doesnt that make it a (very small) item of clkothing? :O

p.s. you're right about Gay Paree - but I think that's a different, almost fictional city.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pingu on October 12, 2014, 06:46:07 pm
New-car-sul
Glars-go


I bet most southerners cringe when they pronounce Glastonbury. ;D
I hope you won't mind if I stick with
"Paris"
Instead of "Par-ee"

(At least while I'm in the UK)
:-P

Us trying to explain to our French hosts that we were going to Rheims  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Wowbagger on October 12, 2014, 06:49:43 pm
I thought that the BBC's change in pronunciation of Kabul, when it miraculously started rhyming with "marble", was quite amusing. This occurred just around the time that they became aware of Afghanistan's existence, when Russia invaded.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on October 12, 2014, 06:52:03 pm

Us trying to explain to our French hosts that we were going to Rheims  :facepalm:

Did they cringe or just look blank?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Plug1n on October 12, 2014, 08:16:58 pm

USian influence?


Still on a musical front, anything from the 18th century that is pre-Haydn being "baroak".

It's a French word for FFS and no problem for US or UK speakers - "baroque" = "barock" (with equal emphasis on both syllables).
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mrs Pingu on October 12, 2014, 08:33:56 pm

Us trying to explain to our French hosts that we were going to Rheims  :facepalm:

Did they cringe or just look blank?

Blank. We went through the same thing last year and thought we'd got the hang of the pronunciation, but given this year's charade apparently not. Using the name Champagne got us there in the end, both times.  :-[
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: barakta on October 12, 2014, 08:36:45 pm
I had no idea baroque wasn't pronounced bar-oak...  One issue with only seeing words written down.  I do if doing something official check my go to pronunciation guides howjsay, Macmillan and Oxford and Cambridge online dictionaries which are great and BRITISH and apparently human read sound clips (I can't tell).
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Basil on October 12, 2014, 08:38:25 pm
Oi, John Humphreys.  Brian Redhead never told me that it was "huff past seven"
Get a grip!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on October 12, 2014, 08:48:30 pm
So- li - hull, or Solly 'ole

Bir-ming-ham   ;D
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Deano on October 12, 2014, 08:57:21 pm
So- li - hull, or Solly 'ole

Bir-ming-ham   ;D

I've been saying for years that the BBC should pronounce place names as they're pronounced by the people who live there.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Wowbagger on October 12, 2014, 10:34:45 pm
Oi, John Humphreys.  Brian Redhead never told me that it was "huff past seven"
Get a grip!

That's what his guests go out in after he's interviewed them.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Tim Hall on October 12, 2014, 11:42:26 pm
Oi, John Humphreys.  Brian Redhead never told me that it was "huff past seven"
Get a grip!
Oi, Basil. That's Humphrys. No "e". Get a grip! (Insert yellow face thing of choice)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: jsabine on October 12, 2014, 11:45:59 pm
Oi, John Humphreys.  Brian Redhead never told me that it was "huff past seven"
Get a grip!
Oi, Basil. That's Humphrys. No "e". Get a grip! (Insert yellow face thing of choice)

It's pronounciated the same thobut. No gripping.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on October 12, 2014, 11:53:30 pm
I thought that the BBC's change in pronunciation of Kabul, when it miraculously started rhyming with "marble", was quite amusing. This occurred just around the time that they became aware of Afghanistan's existence, when Russia invaded.

Curious how many people pronounce "USSR" as "Russia" too.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: clarion on October 12, 2014, 11:57:20 pm
And, on a similar subject, though not so common these days (I heard it recently, mind): Reading 'CCCP' as if it were not Cyrillics.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on October 13, 2014, 11:27:51 am
So- li - hull, or Solly 'ole

Bir-ming-ham   ;D


I like the long drawn out 'ham' in Birmingham, Alabama, which makes sense because the one thing they most surely do like in the South is a nice piece of pig.

Pronunciation checking is another form of knobeditry, gets on my wick to be honest, especially with the curiously affected pronunciations of cod-latin (from native speakers, obviously) or do-it-like-a-local nonsense.

Oddly, Americans do tend to pronounce 'fillet' and 'niche' à la française. Except it's not odd, it just is.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Basil on October 13, 2014, 11:59:16 am
Oi, John Humphreys.  Brian Redhead never told me that it was "huff past seven"
Get a grip!
Oi, Basil. That's Humphrys. No "e". Get a grip! (Insert yellow face thing of choice)

Fair cop, guv.   :facepalm:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on October 13, 2014, 12:57:03 pm
Oddly, Americans do tend to pronounce 'fillet' and 'niche' à la française. Except it's not odd, it just is.

I don't think that's particularly odd.  Americans tend to think you're an uneducated oaf if you don't, so I'm sure they all learn quickly enough.  Which makes for an interesting culture clash when they encounter the great British tradition of pronouncing words borrowed from French as Englishly as possible, presumably on general principle.  Indeed, the rule seems to be that BRITONS are only allowed to use the French pronunciation when actually speaking French, lest they be perceived to be pretentious.

I find the whole thing somewhat amusing, even though it leaves me with the same sort of cognitive unease that I get when I can't decide whether to use a northern or southern 'a' sound (which is most of the time, as they both seem wrong and liable to result in piss-taking).
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Bledlow on October 13, 2014, 01:59:52 pm
Oddly, Americans do tend to pronounce 'fillet' and 'niche' à la française. Except it's not odd, it just is.
But not papier-mâché.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: asterix on October 13, 2014, 02:35:28 pm
My recent (very enjoyable) visit to Canada showed me that
1.  Canadian French sounds different to French French and common-use phrases may differ.
2.  Canadians in one town have a different accent to Canadians in another town even if they are not that far apart (in the Canadian sense of not being    far apart).
3.  Canada is very definitely not the USA.  It really isn't, they aren't just pretending.
4. It is a country I'd like to revisit.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on October 13, 2014, 02:51:33 pm
Oddly, Americans do tend to pronounce 'fillet' and 'niche' à la française. Except it's not odd, it just is.

I don't think that's particularly odd.  Americans tend to think you're an uneducated oaf if you don't, so I'm sure they all learn quickly enough.  Which makes for an interesting culture clash when they encounter the great British tradition of pronouncing words borrowed from French as Englishly as possible, presumably on general principle.  Indeed, the rule seems to be that BRITONS are only allowed to use the French pronunciation when actually speaking French, lest they be perceived to be pretentious.

I find the whole thing somewhat amusing, even though it leaves me with the same sort of cognitive unease that I get when I can't decide whether to use a northern or southern 'a' sound (which is most of the time, as they both seem wrong and liable to result in piss-taking).

I'm not sure. If you're not speaking French, why make the effort to pretend, it always comes off a bit pretentious. I blame the BBC, it's payback for all the northern accents. Do Jesus and the Queen sound like they come from Manchester? No, and for good reason.

The French don't exactly try with English. They even the make that exquisitely gallic pouty-pouty poo face when they hear Québécois, like someone has been sick in their bouillabaisse.

Still, there is something a little bit special when the young person behind the counter at Mcdonalds corrects your 'fillet o' fish' like the most snooty of Parisian waiters. Oh you mean fillet. It goes both ways though, many years ago in Texas I remember asking for the buffet breakfast. Cue blank look from the waitress. 'The buffet? said I, hopeful of overcoming our linguistic impasse through the medium of repetition. "Oh, you mean the bur-fit,' came the final spark of understanding.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on October 13, 2014, 03:15:02 pm
Oddly, Americans do tend to pronounce 'fillet' and 'niche' à la française. Except it's not odd, it just is.

I don't think that's particularly odd.  Americans tend to think you're an uneducated oaf if you don't, so I'm sure they all learn quickly enough.  Which makes for an interesting culture clash when they encounter the great British tradition of pronouncing words borrowed from French as Englishly as possible, presumably on general principle.  Indeed, the rule seems to be that BRITONS are only allowed to use the French pronunciation when actually speaking French, lest they be perceived to be pretentious.

I find the whole thing somewhat amusing, even though it leaves me with the same sort of cognitive unease that I get when I can't decide whether to use a northern or southern 'a' sound (which is most of the time, as they both seem wrong and liable to result in piss-taking).

The French are impervious to the idea of pronouncing foreign words the foreign way. Some years ago, on the occasion of Nev Chanin retiring as organiser of the Dieppe Raid, the Mayor of that town gave a speech in praise of Nev, in French and in excellent English. But in the French version 'Chanin' was perfectly frenchified.

Most English people I know will render at least proper names in an approximation of their original pronunciation.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Steph on October 13, 2014, 06:46:06 pm
Lah-tay.  Of course, it's another mute point but I did save someone on a skiing holiday in Italy from ordering a glass of milk when they wanted the coffee.

And coming back to French from Italian, the killing blow as 'coup de gras'. What an odd image that conjures up.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Wowbagger on October 13, 2014, 09:42:28 pm
My mum used to send me next door for a coup de gras when she had run out of dripping.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on October 13, 2014, 09:47:39 pm
In French the "u" sound gets a lot of UKians, who tend to bring it out like the "oo" in "too".  I have no trouble with either sound now, but back when we were first in France I used to get them mixed up occasionally, so that one day my polite "merci beaucoup" to a waitress came out as "merci beau cul", i.e. "thank-you, beautiful bum". Got me a smile.

Funnily enough, German has the same sort of pitfall.  "Heut ists schwul" will get you queer looks.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Steph on October 13, 2014, 09:51:18 pm
You meant "Oh Calcutta", of course.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Auntie Helen on October 14, 2014, 06:38:26 am
In French the "u" sound gets a lot of UKians, who tend to bring it out like the "oo" in "too".  I have no trouble with either sound now, but back when we were first in France I used to get them mixed up occasionally, so that one day my polite "merci beaucoup" to a waitress came out as "merci beau cul", i.e. "thank-you, beautiful bum". Got me a smile.

Funnily enough, German has the same sort of pitfall.  "Heut ists schwul" will get you queer looks.
I've given up using schwul as my pronunciation of u and ü is too similar - I use feucht now.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Tewdric on October 14, 2014, 07:03:47 am
Oddly, Americans do tend to pronounce 'fillet' and 'niche' à la française. Except it's not odd, it just is.
But not papier-mâché.

Niche should always be pronounced the French way.  Fillet depends on context - I would fill it a fish but ask for a fee yay de burf if it were written in French on a menu. 
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: fboab on October 14, 2014, 11:15:28 am
Lah-tay.  Of course, it's another mute point but I did save someone on a skiing holiday in Italy from ordering a glass of milk when they wanted the coffee.

And coming back to French from Italian, the killing blow as 'coup de gras'. What an odd image that conjures up.
A silent point or a moot one?

(This thread is a repository for pedants, after all)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ningishzidda on October 14, 2014, 11:35:28 am
So- li - hull, or Solly 'ole

Bir-ming-ham   ;D

I've been saying for years that the BBC should pronounce place names as they're pronounced by the people who live there.

Burrmoingum
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Basil on October 14, 2014, 11:39:14 am
I hear it more as half way between
Beer mingum
&
Bear mingum
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ningishzidda on October 14, 2014, 11:39:17 am
Dr Carl Chinn tried to put me right on the correct pronunciation of “Solihull”.

I said to him in a whisper “If its on your birth certificate, you can pronounce it any way you fucking like.”
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ningishzidda on October 14, 2014, 11:44:42 am
Tidbury Green, ‘Tibbury Green’.

Whitlocks End, ‘Wittocks End’.

Tanworth in Arden, “Tannuth in Ardun’.

Birmingham, ‘Brummegem’.

Aston, ‘Shitole’
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Basil on October 14, 2014, 11:48:44 am
 ;D
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Steph on October 14, 2014, 01:56:33 pm
Lah-tay.  Of course, it's another mute point but I did save someone on a skiing holiday in Italy from ordering a glass of milk when they wanted the coffee.

And coming back to French from Italian, the killing blow as 'coup de gras'. What an odd image that conjures up.
A silent point or a moot one?

(This thread is a repository for pedants, after all)
See my earlier post referring to 'mute points'
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: pcolbeck on October 14, 2014, 09:13:23 pm
The BBCs random way of pronouncing the names of some foreign countries people or places with what is an attempt at the local pronunciation and not for others. It changes overnight seemingly as well.
Its pointless silly and just confusing. They never say Paree instead of Paris and its still Germany not Deutschland but other places get changed at random.
Hugo Chavez is one of the ones you hear all the time. I know a Spanish speaker pronounces Hugo Ugo but we aren't Spanish. They don't pronounce Irish names with an Irish accent for gods sake.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pickled Onion on October 15, 2014, 01:10:27 pm
I disagree - if it's someone's name it's downright rude not to pronounce it the way they do. It's not the same as an accent, the name does not have an H sound in it so don't put one in. How would you pronounce Thierry Henry?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on October 15, 2014, 01:25:32 pm
I read years ago that the BBC's pronunciation unit debated for days before arriving at an understandable pronunciation of Krushchev.  The result was very different from the Russian pronunciation but they explained that if they had used that nobody would have been able to connect it with the westernised spelling, and the newsreaders would have had tremendous difficulty; so they compromised.  The idea was to be close to the original if possible, but failing that to be comprehensible and consistent.

Alas, the pronunciation unit was scrapped years ago.

WRT pronouncing people's names the way they do, when I was at school we had two blokes who spelt their names McCullough.  One of them pronounced it that way, the other as McCulla.  Our bitch of a music mistress used to tell him off for correcting her every time she deliberately got it wrong.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on October 15, 2014, 02:57:04 pm
How would you pronounce Thierry Henry?

"Chee-tin' Bar-stud".  In an Irish accent.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: mattc on October 15, 2014, 04:31:33 pm
. How would you pronounce Thierry Henry?
I alway pronounce Thierry the english way.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: clarion on October 15, 2014, 04:53:26 pm
Terry Henry ;)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on October 15, 2014, 06:34:32 pm
I disagree - if it's someone's name it's downright rude not to pronounce it the way they do. It's not the same as an accent, the name does not have an H sound in it so don't put one in. How would you pronounce Thierry Henry?

Many foreigners have an awful time pronouncing 'Ian' in the proper way. I don't go around correcting them and forcing them to say it as I would. I do correct people who spell it 'Iain' though. The only true Ians are cycloptic Ians.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on October 15, 2014, 07:04:41 pm
We got so used to FOREIGNS mispronouncing the name of my grate frend Mr Sheen that nowadays even BRITONS call him "Yan".
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: mattc on October 15, 2014, 07:10:34 pm
i've recently heard a lot of coverage for the film:
"Gone Girl".
For a while I suspected it was called "GARN Girl".

Surely "Gone" rhymes with One, On and Won. Not with Yarn.   ???

(The culprits have mainly been pure RP speakers. Ish.)

Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on October 15, 2014, 07:12:31 pm
A certain very eminent French member of AUK always greets me loudly and enthusiastically with, "EYE-YAN!"
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on October 15, 2014, 07:14:34 pm
i've recently heard a lot of coverage for the film:
"Gone Girl".
For a while I suspected it was called "GARN Girl".

Surely "Gone" rhymes with One, On and Won. Not with Yarn.   ???

(The culprits have mainly been pure RP speakers. Ish.)



"Gahn" might be a more universal pronunciation spelling (thinking of how yours would be pronounced down yerr.)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: mattc on October 15, 2014, 07:19:28 pm
Yeah, "gahn" might be a better fit  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pingu on October 15, 2014, 07:55:55 pm
How would you pronounce Thierry Henry?

If it's to do with overpaid-prima-donnas-knocking-about-a-spherical-object then I don't need to pronounce it.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: TimC on October 16, 2014, 02:42:45 am
I disagree - if it's someone's name it's downright rude not to pronounce it the way they do. It's not the same as an accent, the name does not have an H sound in it so don't put one in. How would you pronounce Thierry Henry?

I don't particularly care that the French (among others) have their own name for London (Londres), so equally I don't care that we call Paris 'Parriss' not 'Paree'. It's not rude on either part; it's simply the way it is.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on October 16, 2014, 08:20:13 am
When I worked in Stuttgart I was told to fly to Mailand to do some software mods. To get home again from Milan I had to get a plane to Stoccarda.

When I drove from here to Breda in Holland I went through Nemours in Belgium.  On the drive back, taking the same roads, Nemours was on none of the sign-posts. Some place called Namen was, though.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Auntie Helen on October 16, 2014, 09:20:43 am
I got a bit confused when following some badly-scribbled road directions on my way by car to Germany because Liege disappeared but I kept seeing this place called Leuk on the signposts.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on October 16, 2014, 09:41:35 am
i've recently heard a lot of coverage for the film:
"Gone Girl".
For a while I suspected it was called "GARN Girl".

Surely "Gone" rhymes with One, On and Won. Not with Yarn.   ???

(The culprits have mainly been pure RP speakers. Ish.)

The drawled long 'O' becomes prevalent as you travel west towards Cornwall.

Also, in RP, one and won rhyme with gun.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: LEE on October 16, 2014, 09:52:32 am
Imagine how wonderful and interesting the world would be if everyone spoke identically and used received pronunciation.  Why we could even have Pathe News reels back at the cinemas.

I hope nobody here ever visits Ireland because dat would be a terrible ting for your helt.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: jsabine on October 16, 2014, 09:56:24 am
Hugo Chavez is one of the ones you hear all the time. I know a Spanish speaker pronounces Hugo Ugo but we aren't Spanish. They don't pronounce Irish names with an Irish accent for gods sake.

So how do you say Siobhan or Niamh or Aoife or Grainne then? Or, looking eastwards, Marcin? (Probably needs some diacriticals, that one.)

I disagree - if it's someone's name it's downright rude not to pronounce it the way they do. It's not the same as an accent, the name does not have an H sound in it so don't put one in. How would you pronounce Thierry Henry?

Many foreigners have an awful time pronouncing 'Ian' in the proper way. I don't go around correcting them and forcing them to say it as I would.

I don't think it's necessarily about correcting, or forcing. If I don't know how to pronounce a name or find it difficult, I welcome the chance to do someone the courtesy of pronouncing it a bit closer to how it's meant to be said. I'd rather they said something than listen to me cock it up again and again.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ningishzidda on October 16, 2014, 10:16:28 am
Imagine how wonderful and interesting the world would be if everyone spoke identically and used received pronunciation.  Why we could even have Pathe News reels back at the cinemas.

I hope nobody here ever visits Ireland because dat would be a terrible ting for your helt.

11 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech.  As people moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.

 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar.  Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”
 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building.  The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.  Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”
 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city.  That is why it was called Babel because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on October 16, 2014, 11:08:25 am
Ah... RP = Received Pronunciation. Was reading it as Reverse Polish.

Speaking of which, a university chum of mine was Scots-Polish, born in Sedan but brought up in the Borders and speaking only the local variant of English.  He used to say Warsaw the UK way until he went on holiday there, whereafter he pronounced it Warszawa (Varshava) and would savagely correct anyone he heard saying it "wrongly". People like that are tiresome.

To exhaust the topic, the French equivalent is Varsovie. Jacques Brel had a great song called Madame promène son cul sur les remparts de Varsovie. Shame he's gone.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pickled Onion on October 16, 2014, 12:29:55 pm
I disagree - if it's someone's name it's downright rude not to pronounce it the way they do. It's not the same as an accent, the name does not have an H sound in it so don't put one in. How would you pronounce Thierry Henry?

Many foreigners have an awful time pronouncing 'Ian' in the proper way. I don't go around correcting them and forcing them to say it as I would. I do correct people who spell it 'Iain' though. The only true Ians are cycloptic Ians.

That's a fair point, all languages have sounds in them that non-native speakers find difficult or impossible. Certainly the newsreaders referred to by pcolbeck would not get Hugo Chavez's surname correct as the Spanish v does not have an exact match in English, they'll probably get the z wrong too and the o at the end of Hugo. But that is not an excuse for saying we should deliberately pronounce Hugo as "Hyoogoe" instead of "oogo" because "we're not Spanish".
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on October 16, 2014, 12:43:36 pm
Quote
Many foreigners have an awful time pronouncing 'Ian' in the proper way. I don't go around correcting them and forcing them to say it as I would.

I don't think it's necessarily about correcting, or forcing. If I don't know how to pronounce a name or find it difficult, I welcome the chance to do someone the courtesy of pronouncing it a bit closer to how it's meant to be said. I'd rather they said something than listen to me cock it up again and again.

Well, I think Irish names are a bit different since they're not phonetically pronounced à la English, and you don't get extra points for using a cod-Irish accent (outside of Boston). It's Shivhawn to be sure, you feckers. Having travelled the US in the company of Irish girls, they were mostly wryly amused by phonetic attempts at Niamh and Siobhan (hearing a New Orleans barkeep pronounce Siobhan is something precious). I'm not going to lisp through Spanish names, but I'll do a passable Don Juan.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: andrew_s on October 16, 2014, 12:52:44 pm
I got a bit confused when following some badly-scribbled road directions on my way by car to Germany because Liege disappeared but I kept seeing this place called Leuk on the signposts.
Sort of like the time I ended up cycling through the middle of San Sebastian because this place "Donostia" on the signposts wasn't on my map and therefore too small to be worth avoiding.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Steph on October 16, 2014, 02:13:05 pm
I got a bit confused when following some badly-scribbled road directions on my way by car to Germany because Liege disappeared but I kept seeing this place called Leuk on the signposts.

...and coming back from Germany it became 'Luttich'
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on October 16, 2014, 03:09:52 pm
It has been posited that the Fiat Croma was Italy's terrible revenge on BRITAIN for the Vauxhall Firenza.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on October 16, 2014, 03:27:40 pm
Coming back to just English, there are words we read and understand as children but do not hear pronounced for decades. When at last we do hear them they may be totally different from our idea of them.  One such, for me, was chimera: I was well over 40 when I first heard anyone say it, and my immediate reaction was "illiterate swine".  Luckily I didn't say it out loud, for he was right.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Auntie Helen on October 16, 2014, 04:35:58 pm
I notice the newsreaders do pronounce Angela Merkel generally roughly correctly, so they do it with some names even if there's an English name. But I guess that's easier than Hugo Chavez correctly.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on October 16, 2014, 06:57:12 pm
Coming back to just English, there are words we read and understand as children but do not hear pronounced for decades.

I'm always surprised by how much piss-taking the resulting mispronunciations attract.  "Yes, I have vast swathes of vocabulary that I acquired through reading.  That's a bad thing, is it?"

And it's by no means exclusive to children.  Occupational hazard with pretty much any specialist knowledge acquired informally.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on October 16, 2014, 07:54:59 pm
I was probably 30 before I realised 'awry' was pronounced a-rye, not aw-ree.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Steph on October 16, 2014, 08:03:00 pm
I have a colleague who talks about feeling ember rast...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Basil on October 16, 2014, 08:12:20 pm
I have a colleague who thinks "Good morning, Basil" is pronounced "Fuck off, cunt"
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pedaldog on October 16, 2014, 11:27:06 pm
I keep getting telephone calls from India asking to speak to "Mister Stee-Fen Please"!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Bledlow on October 17, 2014, 01:50:24 pm
I disagree - if it's someone's name it's downright rude not to pronounce it the way they do. It's not the same as an accent, the name does not have an H sound in it so don't put one in. How would you pronounce Thierry Henry?

Many foreigners have an awful time pronouncing 'Ian' in the proper way. I don't go around correcting them and forcing them to say it as I would. I do correct people who spell it 'Iain' though. The only true Ians are cycloptic Ians.

That's a fair point, all languages have sounds in them that non-native speakers find difficult or impossible. Certainly the newsreaders referred to by pcolbeck would not get Hugo Chavez's surname correct as the Spanish v does not have an exact match in English, they'll probably get the z wrong too and the o at the end of Hugo. But that is not an excuse for saying we should deliberately pronounce Hugo as "Hyoogoe" instead of "oogo" because "we're not Spanish".
Yeah, they'll say z instead of s.  ;D
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on October 17, 2014, 02:45:29 pm
Another one that I "mispronounced" for around 60 years is detritus. When I was at school Latin was compulsory so I know exactly how it would be pronounced if English got it right, but RP makes it sound like inflammation of the debtor. Shit, even French gets it right (while treating it as a plural - barf).

Still on the i-aye front, anyone else wince every time they tried to say primer in Contact? Fortunately, it's not a film to be watched more than once, if that.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: red marley on November 17, 2014, 01:21:45 pm
In the Imitation Game (biopic of Alan Turing released this weekend), one bright Cambridge mathematician to another discussing solving a mathematical proof:

"Why not use Euler's formula to solve that?" [pronouncing it "you-ler" not "oi-ler"]

OK, so it's a bit smartarse to criticise pronunciation of word that may not be obvious to many non-mathematics inclined people, but it's hardly obscure, and this is a biopic about a mathematician! One on which they spent millions on set design, actors, effects, Keira Knightley's cheekbones, marketing etc. Surely they could have spent a few quid on a least one advisor on the authenticity of the subject matter?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on November 17, 2014, 01:31:57 pm
Can't remember how our phys. master at school used to pronounce Euler, but he pronounced Poiseuille as Pwazerelle. And (more understandably) bowdlerized Kuntz.  Can't help thinking, though, that talking about a "Koonz Tube" in class these days would attract more censure than pronouncing it correctly.

There used to be a current of opinion that held correct pronunciation of foreign names to be unpatriotic, particularly in the diplomatic services. Dunno if it still persists.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: red marley on November 17, 2014, 03:11:25 pm
There used to be a current of opinion that held correct pronunciation of foreign names to be unpatriotic, particularly in the diplomatic services. Dunno if it still persists.

That's a good point that I hadn't thought about. Given its German origins, perhaps there was a studied Anglification of the pronunciation during the 1940s. Anyone know for sure?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Torslanda on November 17, 2014, 07:41:11 pm
Had two howlers on Friday, Radio 2, from that paragon of pronunciation Sarah Cox.

A shout out for someone in Down-ray (that's in Scotland, y'know) and someone else in Beecons-field . . .

GAH!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Eccentrica Gallumbits on November 17, 2014, 08:29:52 pm
STV are currently showing a programme about Anstruther (no, I don't know why either) and the narrator has pronounced it Anstruther all the way through.  ::-)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Feanor on November 17, 2014, 08:36:15 pm
STV are currently showing a programme about Anstruther (no, I don't know why either) and the narrator has pronounced it Anstruther all the way through.  ::-)

So enlighten me.
What is the correct pronunciation?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Eccentrica Gallumbits on November 17, 2014, 08:44:03 pm
Ainster.

Same Slaithwaite is Sla-wit.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Feanor on November 17, 2014, 10:07:21 pm
Thanks.   That may save me some embarrassment in future.

I must have been off school the day they did that :-)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hatler on November 17, 2014, 10:14:29 pm
Trottescliffe anyone ?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on November 17, 2014, 10:47:21 pm
One of these days, the English will learn to pronounce their towns' names correctly. Either that or learn how to spell them correctly.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on November 17, 2014, 10:58:39 pm
One of these days, the English will learn to pronounce their towns' names correctly. Either that or learn how to spell them correctly.

Cycled through Leominster yesterday, Weobley today.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on November 18, 2014, 12:10:22 am
One of these days, the English will learn to pronounce their towns' names correctly. Either that or learn how to spell them correctly.

At the very least, place name pronunciation should be consistent; it isn't so Wymondham (leics.) sounds rather different from Wymondham, Norfolk .
Then there's Gillingham...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Bledlow on November 18, 2014, 12:14:32 am
Kent or Dorset?  ;D
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on November 18, 2014, 12:38:01 am
Jillingham in Kent and Guillingham in Dorset, innit?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on November 18, 2014, 01:49:18 am
One of these days, the English will learn to pronounce their towns' names correctly. Either that or learn how to spell them correctly.

Must.  Resist.  Temptation. Must.. Res439(18)76,2:;,(7,[NO CARRIER] :demon:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Biff on November 18, 2014, 10:43:00 am
On the Toady prog this morning Harvey Goldsmith declared the ebola crisis to be 'heart rendering' That paints quite a picture.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: tiermat on November 18, 2014, 10:54:03 am
One of these days, the English will learn to pronounce their towns' names correctly. Either that or learn how to spell them correctly.

If that sort of thing (mispronunciation of town names) makes you laugh, try listening to the traffic news on Planet Rock, especially when their American DJ (IIRC Darren Redick)is presenting.  It can be highly amusing.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Bledlow on November 18, 2014, 06:29:44 pm
Jillingham in Kent and Guillingham in Dorset, innit?
Exactly.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on November 18, 2014, 06:35:03 pm
Jillingham in Kent and Guillingham in Dorset, innit?
Exactly.

I am told the Northumbrian town of Bellingham is pronounced 'bellinjam'...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: eck on November 18, 2014, 06:42:44 pm
STV are currently showing a programme about Anstruther (no, I don't know why either) and the narrator has pronounced it Anstruther all the way through.  ::-)

So enlighten me.
What is the correct pronunciation?
Anstruther is  near Kilconquhar.   :smug:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on November 18, 2014, 08:33:28 pm
It rather saddens me that the local authority has decided to add an alternative pronunciation spelling to signs for Woolfardisworthy.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Gasman on December 08, 2014, 01:47:51 pm
STV are currently showing a programme about Anstruther (no, I don't know why either) and the narrator has pronounced it Anstruther all the way through.  ::-)

In my, albeit limited, experience Anstruther is only Ainster in and around Anstruther.  Other places regularly mispronounced by Southerly broadcasters include;

BEERS-den - Bearsden (where a large furry animal lives)
Kir-COLL-di/KIR-kle-dee - Kircaldy (Kir-COD-i)
Stran-REAR - Stranraer (Stran-RARR)
Cairnyarn - Cairnryan
GREN-ock - Greenock

Kircudbright (Kir-COOB-ri) and Milngavie (Mill-GYE) attract more mispronunciations than you can shake a stick at.

My own pet hate (not sure if it's already been mentioned) is "harrassed/harrassment" pronounced a la Frank Spencer.  They should rhyme with embarrassed/embarrassment.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on December 08, 2014, 02:29:29 pm
ee-BOW-la.  Argh.  EBB-oh-la, ya twit.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Tim Hall on December 08, 2014, 04:01:09 pm
ee-BOW-la.  Argh.  EBB-oh-la, ya twit.

Or E-bola, a close relative of E-coli. (Cringe making, not correct pronunciation obvs.)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Wowbagger on December 08, 2014, 10:34:39 pm
I'm pretty sure that I heard Richard Osman pronounce pronunciation pronounciation the other day. I'm not absolutely sure because I find my ears play tricks on me these days and I sometimes think I've heard something which subsequently proves not to have been as it seemed at the time.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pingu on December 16, 2014, 11:03:34 pm
Gideon Coe attempting molybdenum  :facepalm: His listeners' suggestions aren't any better  ::-)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Steph on December 17, 2014, 10:46:48 am
My old physics teacher trying to say "naphthalene"

He couldn't spell it, in addition.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: pcolbeck on December 29, 2014, 07:11:57 am
On an otherwise excellent Radio 4 program about how navigation works in the brain the (British) presenter repeatedly said "ee-ko-location" instead of "e-cho-location".  Its echo not eco for heavens sake.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Wowbagger on December 29, 2014, 09:54:35 am
That's the Australian version. They shout "Koo-ee" and it comes back as "Ee-koo".

That's the southern hemisphere for you.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pickled Onion on December 29, 2014, 10:27:52 am
On an otherwise excellent Radio 4 program about how navigation works in the brain the (British) presenter repeatedly said "ee-ko-location" instead of "e-cho-location".  Its echo not eco for heaven's sake.

I've also cringed upthread about documentaries where people who should know better pronounce the same word strangely over and over again...

Recently on the Guardian podcast, the "science of drinks expert", who had a distinctly estuary twang and evidently not from the USA, kept talking about Driver Mooth. By the end of the piece it had even become Drive Mooth. Srsly?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: mattc on December 29, 2014, 02:59:09 pm
Hmmm.  you're touching on running-together-of-words there - potentially a huge area for cringes.
(it may be a regional thing in the UK - always a sensitive area! <ducks> )
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pickled Onion on December 29, 2014, 03:07:05 pm
Hmmm.  you're touching on running-together-of-words there - potentially a huge area for cringes.
(it may be a regional thing in the UK - always a sensitive area! <ducks> )

Not at all - it may be a FOREIGN word, but it has its own BRITISH pronunciation: VERR-muth not va-MOOTH. Whatever next? Te-MAY-doh?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: mattc on December 29, 2014, 05:09:42 pm
Hmmm.  you're touching on running-together-of-words there - potentially a huge area for cringes.
(it may be a regional thing in the UK - always a sensitive area! <ducks> )

Not at all - it may be a FOREIGN word, but it has its own BRITISH pronunciation: VERR-muth not va-MOOTH. Whatever next? Te-MAY-doh?
Oh, I see - then I misunderstood you, sorry.

Perhaps because in all honesty I was only aware of people stressing the  2nd syllable. I suppose "vur-MOOTH" would be my best effort at transcription. ("va" sounds wrong. and Te-MAY-doh is definitely out, as is te-MAH-doh ... )
It's not something that I discuss very often, so I'm very happy to be over-ruled on this one!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: mattc on January 02, 2015, 05:34:04 pm
On R4 recently (Today programme guest presenter, possibly?)

UEFA as " ooo-EEE-far "
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Nuncio on January 02, 2015, 09:00:08 pm
STV are currently showing a programme about Anstruther (no, I don't know why either) and the narrator has pronounced it Anstruther all the way through.  ::-)

In my, albeit limited, experience Anstruther is only Ainster in and around Anstruther.  Other places regularly mispronounced by Southerly broadcasters include;


Stran-REAR - Stranraer (Stran-RARR)
Cairnyarn - Cairnryan

Kircudbright (Kir-COOB-ri) and Milngavie (Mill-GYE) attract more mispronunciations than you can shake a stick at.


If we stay in that part of the world, what about those idiots who ponounce Crocketford (Croc-it-fud) as Ninemile Bar (Nine-mile baa)?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Bledlow on January 02, 2015, 09:49:04 pm
Lower Winchendon - now often pronounced Nether Winchendon.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on January 02, 2015, 09:54:54 pm
On R4 recently (Today programme guest presenter, possibly?)

UEFA as " ooo-EEE-far "

I can remember when they didn't pronounce the E at all, then the Beeb realised that "UEFA Cup" sounded like a rude suggestion.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: CAMRAMan on January 02, 2015, 09:55:40 pm
Pretentious wine drinkers who go to great lengths to pronounce 'cabernet sauvignon' with authenticity, but then say 'carver' for 'cava'. An old chestnut I have no doubt mentioned before, but it still grates.

And, as a former Silhillian, I say 'so-lee-'hull', with stress on the final syllable, seeing as it is the hill that is soily.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on January 03, 2015, 07:27:56 am
Pretentious wine drinkers who go to great lengths to pronounce 'cabernet sauvignon' with authenticity, but then say 'carver' for 'cava'. An old chestnut I have no doubt mentioned before, but it still grates.

They probably also say "drawring room".
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Steph on January 03, 2015, 08:27:38 am
Pretentious wine drinkers who go to great lengths to pronounce 'cabernet sauvignon' with authenticity, but then say 'carver' for 'cava'. An old chestnut I have no doubt mentioned before, but it still grates.

They probably also say "drawring room".

 ;D

"Lar-tay"

 :sick:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: fboab on January 08, 2015, 02:40:45 pm
Dowlfenwaaase.

It took me a while to work out what she meant.

Turned out to be
(click to show/hide)
and worse than that, what she actually had was
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pickled Onion on January 09, 2015, 11:31:09 pm
pt. 94 of "experts who should know better"

Economist journalist on More or Less: "Racey-oh"

Over and over again...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on January 10, 2015, 12:58:42 am
pt. 94 of "experts who should know better"

Economist journalist on More or Less: "Racey-oh"

Over and over again...

Isn't that Church Latin?

It's certainly how we we we were instructed to sing various Masses (and made a ponce out of Pontius Pilate).
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on January 10, 2015, 08:20:42 am
So his name means Hairy Ponce.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ham on January 10, 2015, 10:27:19 am
Pretentious wine drinkers who go to great lengths to pronounce 'cabernet sauvignon' with authenticity, but then say 'carver' for 'cava'. An old chestnut I have no doubt mentioned before, but it still grates.

They probably also say "drawring room".

 ;D

"Lar-tay"

 :sick:

It's worth goign to Italy to see what happens when a Brit orders Latte in a caff  ;D :demon:

If you don't know
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Basil on June 07, 2015, 04:43:25 pm
Just been reminded of one that often annoys me.
Brummies!  Of all people I would expect you to know the correct pronunciation of 'Samosa' or 'Samosas'
It is not samoza or samozas.  It is a soft s.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Wowbagger on June 08, 2015, 09:09:36 am
Pretentious wine drinkers who go to great lengths to pronounce 'cabernet sauvignon' with authenticity, but then say 'carver' for 'cava'. An old chestnut I have no doubt mentioned before, but it still grates.

They probably also say "drawring room".

 ;D

"Lar-tay"

 :sick:

It's worth goign to Italy to see what happens when a Brit orders Latte in a caff  ;D :demon:

If you don't know
(click to show/hide)

I gently chided my younger daughter for ordering a lartay yesterday. But then she lives in Islington and also asks waiters "Can I get..." when ordering food, so there is no hope, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: red marley on June 08, 2015, 03:28:48 pm
But then she lives in Islington and also asks waiters "Can I get..." when ordering food, so there is no hope, I'm afraid.

That is the correct grammatical construction for Islington (or Upper Street at least). The full sentence being "Can I get ripped off buying a latte and small almond croissant?"

(Yes, yes you can. Almost certainly.)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: geraldc on June 08, 2015, 03:35:59 pm
Lattes are on the way out. Flat whites are the new latte. It's the velvety microfoam, and the antipodean influence on London
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on June 08, 2015, 05:21:32 pm
I ask for a skinny latte, which makes me feel a bit metrosexual and like I should roll up my trousers and take a devil-may-care attitude to socks.

I probably say latte incorrectly and with pride. I'm blessed with a glottal emergency stop.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Wowbagger on June 08, 2015, 06:22:26 pm
Lattes are on the way out. Flat whites are the new latte. It's the velvety microfoam, and the antipodean influence on London

My daughter asked for a flat white. I didn't know until she told me that there is an argument as to whether it was invented by the Aussies or the New Zealanders. I had no idea it was antipodean at all. While we were eating our lunch at the Canonbury (recently refurbished/new owners and pretty poor in my opinion) we were adjacent to a table full of Aussies and daughter told me after we left how much she enjoys listening to them. She has spent a fair bit of time in Melbourne over the past year and intends to move out there by the end of the year, for how long I don't know.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Wowbagger on July 02, 2015, 11:31:06 am
Bernard Cribbins, you total twerp! You are reading a story for small children! Where has this ridiculous expression "blankie" come from? It's a blanket, you plonker!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on July 02, 2015, 11:54:01 am
No, a blankie is a thing. I personally have a cuddly weasel to keep me safe.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: fboab on August 11, 2015, 11:33:11 am
Colleague.
If you can spell it out as a-d-a-g-i-o to the customer on the 'phone how come you pronounce it ah-gee-o? What happened to the 'ah-dah'?
???
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on August 11, 2015, 07:08:40 pm
Quite a long time ago, when I was still a captain of industry, one of our trade customers came in asking about some labels we were producing for a Harrods meat product.  He asked whether the cark-a-chew-rie labels were ready.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: fboab on September 18, 2015, 02:42:07 pm
Reciprient.

I only spell it, and say it, with the one 'r'. Where did the other one spring from?  ::-)

Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Bledlow on September 18, 2015, 03:44:15 pm
'Makizmo'.  :facepalm: It's Spanish! It's machissmo - ch as in church, as ch is always pronounced in Spanish. I'll tolerate machizmo, which is, at least, anglicised Spanish, but why pronounce a Spanish word as if it's anglicised Italian?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: jsabine on September 19, 2015, 12:06:09 am
why pronounce a Spanish word as if it's anglicised Italian?

Because it's all foreign, innit. And wogs start at Calais.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Peter on September 19, 2015, 10:39:41 am
Speaking about coffee, every time I look at the word "regular", it comes out of my mouth as "small".  And that's how it appears in the cup, too.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on September 19, 2015, 03:12:19 pm
Reciprient.

I only spell it, and say it, with the one 'r'. Where did the other one spring from?  ::-)

Confusion with reciprocal?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on September 22, 2015, 10:56:02 am
This is a good laugh.

https://youtu.be/9q7VjLVU8Ec
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: clarion on September 22, 2015, 01:39:37 pm
On a related note, Jeremy Vine (I know! ::-) ) was doing a feature on the Barmouth Bridge debate* and congratulated himself on his iffy pronunciation of a nearby village name.  Shortly after, he referred to a caller from 'Dolgely' :facepalm:



* Amusing sidenote: Apparently, his mum rang in and said that she had got engaged to his dad at the end of the bridge.  He didn't know that before, it seems.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: asterix on September 23, 2015, 03:42:28 pm
'Either' and 'Neither'

Why can't people pronounce them proper like?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Torslanda on September 23, 2015, 07:40:56 pm
NO! It is pronounced 'new-clee-ar'. NOT 'new-queue-lar'

If that gets a 'BZZZZZZT! Repetition!' then, hey! Sue me . . .
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: pcolbeck on September 30, 2015, 01:03:28 pm
Arrgh BBC radio news. Why did you deicide to pronounce Volkswagen and Audi in the English way but decide that Skoda should be Sssschoodah ?
Can't you at least be consistent in the same sentence ?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Raj on September 30, 2015, 01:31:41 pm
Anenome ... Anemone  :P
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on September 30, 2015, 01:53:02 pm
Arrgh BBC radio news. Why did you deicide to pronounce Volkswagen and Audi in the English way but decide that Skoda should be Sssschoodah ?
Can't you at least be consistent in the same sentence ?

You remind me of the fellow who drove one of those 'Oomburr Skepturrs'.
(it was quite a long time ago).
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: rogerzilla on September 30, 2015, 02:24:32 pm
My former manager had a thick Coventry accent but, in an attempt to appear posh, pronounced "because" as a very affected "becorse" rather than the expected "becoz".
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on September 30, 2015, 02:59:36 pm
My former manager had a thick Coventry accent but, in an attempt to appear posh, pronounced "because" as a very affected "becorse" rather than the expected "becoz".

Maybe that's what posher people from Coventry do.
We have an old family friend (mid 80s) who comes from Coventry originally (pre 1955).

He has no discernible accent to my London ears but also pronounces 'because' as 'becorse'.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: SoreTween on September 30, 2015, 04:31:12 pm
Stood behind a lady of South African origin at the weekend I had ample opportunity to sample her pronunciation.  By ample I mean about 15 minutes while she quizzed the bar staff in detail about every one of the dishes on offer.  My fuse didn't come close to running out as she bellowed her way through the menu with her fat arse perched upon a stool sending her long suffering back and forth to the tribe outside to verify every choice and option.  Almost last she asked what do you get with the fush and chups.  The what now?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: sg37409 on September 30, 2015, 04:34:42 pm
'Either' and 'Neither'

Why can't people pronounce them proper like?

What ?   Eevirov 'em ?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pedaldog on September 30, 2015, 11:54:48 pm
I don't care if their family has lived there for the last 500 years and it's always been called "Kormer". The sign says "Quernmore" so get with it and out of my head cos' if I cycfle up the gert big hill that you're halfway up I will use the last gasps of my wheezing lungs air and Yell "It's Kwernmore" before I break down the door of the village store in guise as the "Sugar driven Lucozade Freak" and Gibber for a long, long time.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: red marley on October 01, 2015, 06:21:26 am
My fuse didn't come close to running out as she bellowed her way through the menu with her fat arse perched upon a stool sending her long suffering back and forth to the tribe outside to verify every choice and option.  Almost last she asked what do you get with the fush and chups. 

If her bottom had been more to your taste, would she have got a free pass on her pronunciation of 'fish and chips'?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on October 01, 2015, 07:36:51 am
"Fush and chups" sounds like Norn Iron.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on October 01, 2015, 07:42:10 am
Foreigners talking funny. Something must be done. A damnable pastime indeed.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on October 01, 2015, 09:26:00 am
Kipling wrote a story or two, set in the IoM and Norn Iron, in which he had the natives using a short u instead of the short i.  Quite pussed me off untul I tried ut myself and realised I sounded like me.  Even then ut pussed me off a luttle but.

But at least we can pronounce the letter R. ;)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on October 01, 2015, 09:57:12 am
"Fush and chups" used to be the canonical way of distinguishing a New Toylander from other Former Colonials.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on October 01, 2015, 10:53:10 am


But at least we can pronounce the letter R. ;)

Ah!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: CAMRAMan on October 01, 2015, 11:19:17 am
The Hairy Twats Bikers had me thinking on their recent Sweden episode. They were pronouncing 'Same' as 'Sammy', not 'Sarmey' as I learned in Sweden. The locals were pronouncing it back at them the same way. Now I don't know if the Same were just being polite or if really is 'Sammy' and I've learned the Swedish version which is wrong to Same ears.

The HBs did also mangle the local place names, so I'd think it was more likely to be them.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Wowbagger on October 01, 2015, 02:36:13 pm
Not cringeworthy as such, but idiosyncratic.

Mrs. Wow and I have been discussing, over lunch, the importance of the question "Why do Mancunians and their elk pronounce "Blackley" blakely?"
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on October 02, 2015, 09:38:47 pm
Jeremy Paxman, use the word "newmonic" once more and I will twat you with Mr Shovel before affording you a Tibetan Sky Burial only in Trafalgar Square.  With pigeons.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Tim Hall on October 02, 2015, 09:54:20 pm
Jeremy Paxman, use the word "newmonic" once more and I will twat you with Mr Shovel before affording you a Tibetan Sky Burial only in Trafalgar Square.  With pigeons.

Ah. The real reason for the Fourth Plinth.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on October 02, 2015, 10:16:09 pm
Jeremy Paxman, use the word "newmonic" once more and I will twat you with Mr Shovel before affording you a Tibetan Sky Burial only in Trafalgar Square.  With pigeons.

Would pneumonic (as opposed to bubonic) plague be a suitable punishment?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on October 21, 2015, 09:45:54 am
It's a trade name, but the name of the Europiccola espresso machine has two obvious components, Euro and piccola.  So WTF should Americans pronounce it as Yuroppy Cola?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on October 25, 2015, 07:34:23 am
Throughout the entirety of "Inventing The Indian" gravel-voiced social historian and part-time comedian Rich Hall refers to the mounted soldiers of the US Army as "the calvary" ???
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on October 25, 2015, 10:21:48 am
We all have our Cross to bear.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Legs on October 26, 2015, 09:39:03 am
like Gladly, the strabismic ursine?  ;)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on October 26, 2015, 09:43:49 am
On the radio this morning: "ef-fic'acy"
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Peter on October 26, 2015, 09:47:49 am
Not cringeworthy as such, but idiosyncratic.

Mrs. Wow and I have been discussing, over lunch, the importance of the question "Why do Mancunians and their elk pronounce "Blackley" blakely?"

As I suspected, it's a historical spelling mistake, rather than a mispronunciation:-

The hamlet of Blackley was mentioned in the Domesday Book. The name derives from the Anglo-Saxon Blæclēah = "dark wood" or "dark clearing". In the 13th and 14th centuries Blackley was referred to as Blakeley or Blakelegh, a spelling that is consistent with the local pronunciation.

Very few elks in the area, though.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on October 26, 2015, 09:55:29 am
Just one. It's probably enough.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: asterix on October 26, 2015, 10:08:29 am
Foreigners talking funny. Something must be done. A damnable pastime indeed.

Damned Microsoft Yanks and their  'Moabul Technaarlargy' (in which world we apparently live).

Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Andrij on October 26, 2015, 10:22:35 am
like Gladly, the strabismic ursine?  ;)

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Jasmine on October 26, 2015, 11:25:55 am
On the radio this morning: "ef-fic'acy"

I'm fairly sure this is the only way I've ever heard it.  How would you pronounce it?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on October 26, 2015, 11:49:59 am
On the radio this morning: "ef-fic'acy"

I'm fairly sure this is the only way I've ever heard it.  How would you pronounce it?

With the stress on the 'ef'.  But perhaps see 'controversy'.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pickled Onion on October 26, 2015, 11:53:05 am
ˈɛfɪkəsi

TBH, I've heard it pronounced  "ef-fic'acy" so often I thought it was correct either way, but apparently not.

ETA: unlike controversy, which is correct either way.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on October 26, 2015, 01:02:40 pm
like Gladly, the strabismic ursine?  ;)

Convergent strabismus on Calvary...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on October 26, 2015, 02:28:15 pm
like Gladly, the strabismic ursine?  ;)

Convergent strabismus on Calvary...

Neigh?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Jasmine on October 26, 2015, 02:42:48 pm
On the radio this morning: "ef-fic'acy"

I'm fairly sure this is the only way I've ever heard it.  How would you pronounce it?

With the stress on the 'ef'.  But perhaps see 'controversy'.

Oh, I see.  I hadn't understood that you meant stressing the second syllable. I'm with you now.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on October 26, 2015, 03:14:49 pm
On the radio this morning: "ef-fic'acy"

I'm fairly sure this is the only way I've ever heard it.  How would you pronounce it?

With the stress on the 'ef'.  But perhaps see 'controversy'.

Oh, I see.  I hadn't understood that you meant stressing the second syllable. I'm with you now.

Probably my inaccurate rendering of phonetic marks.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: mattc on October 26, 2015, 03:22:50 pm
Perhaps we need a new thread:

Rendering of phonetic marks that make you cringe
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on October 26, 2015, 09:49:56 pm
Perhaps all these cringe threads should be shoved into a 'pedants' corner'.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ruthie on October 26, 2015, 10:23:05 pm
Perhaps all these cringe threads should be shoved into a 'pedants' corner'.

They already are: YACF
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Speshact on October 26, 2015, 11:07:56 pm
Gauge pronounced as Gouge by a tour guide this weekend. Shudder.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on October 26, 2015, 11:24:08 pm
Perhaps all these cringe threads should be shoved into a 'pedants' corner'.

They already are: YACF

 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: fboab on December 08, 2015, 11:28:12 am
On my audiobook this morning, the reader pronounced 'pedant' peedant.
I suspect this was just to annoy pedants like me.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: CAMRAMan on December 08, 2015, 11:34:22 am
At least with Prosecco's new-found popularity, we won't have so may eejits saying 'carver' for Cava.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on December 08, 2015, 02:12:50 pm
I ordered OS maps from Amazon which appear to have been lost in the post. I spoke to someone there (where?) about said lost maps:
Aylesbury and LEETON Buzzard
LUTTON and Hertford...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on December 17, 2015, 04:56:35 pm
Probably been mentioned before but...

"Coup de gras", as heard on an otherwise respectable podcast the other day in place of "coup de grace" - I'm not normally snotty about mispronunciation of furrin words but in this case it alters the meaning significantly.

I've heard "coupe de gras" on occasion, which conjures up an unfortunate mental image.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on December 17, 2015, 05:31:24 pm
Anyone for a cup of grease?

--o0o--

I didn't so much cringe as blench yesterday (video not available, fortunately) on finally realizing that the word juridical does not contain a third I**. All my life I've been pronouncing it juridicial - and nobody has taken exception.


**Lobsang Rampa notwithstanding.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on December 20, 2015, 09:21:58 pm
Warbling woman at the start of SPOTY - I do not know who you are but if I hear you warbling about a "gli'er baw-wuh" again my studied response will be medieval in its approach to the use of ironmongery, fire and animals with big pointy teeth.

And I don't mean beavers.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on December 30, 2015, 07:04:57 pm
BBC reporter, since when did the river that runs through Knaresborough start being pronounced inna-Welsh-stylee?

Never, that's when.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Canardly on December 30, 2015, 07:10:40 pm
Cringe is too strong a word, but amazed at how often loose is confused with lose.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: red marley on December 31, 2015, 03:08:37 pm
I think that tends to be a spelling problem rather than a pronunciation one. Understandable when comparing with chose/choose
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Jurek on January 13, 2016, 12:38:33 pm
I think that tends to be a spelling problem rather than a pronunciation one. Understandable when comparing with chose/choose

I always assumed that was more to do with tense / tents.

IGMC
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on January 13, 2016, 03:46:52 pm
I think that tends to be a spelling problem rather than a pronunciation one.

It's also an easy typo, which the spillchucker won't spot, so it looks like you're illiterate.   :(
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Bledlow on January 13, 2016, 05:24:17 pm
Some people consistently get it wrong. I have to fight down the urge to correct them.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Jurek on January 13, 2016, 05:26:29 pm
I think that tends to be a spelling problem rather than a pronunciation one.

It's also an easy typo, which the spillchucker won't spot, so it looks like you're illiterate.   :(

Spillchucker is often your fiend.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on January 13, 2016, 07:03:03 pm
Spillchucker is often your fiend.

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Wowbagger on March 23, 2016, 11:13:12 am
There is a R4 programme on at the moment discussing "pattents".

When did a patent become a pattent? No one refers to "pattent leather" and nothing has ever been "pattently obvious" to anyone, so why the widespread mispronunciation of this word?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ruthie on March 23, 2016, 12:03:10 pm
Because that's how they say it in Trumplandia.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on March 23, 2016, 03:04:56 pm
Both pronunciations have been around for a long time, as have both versions of patron and patronise.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Legs on March 23, 2016, 03:15:58 pm
Someone needs to have a word with Bonnie Raitt.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on March 23, 2016, 04:50:59 pm
Overheard phone conversation"...for prosterity...".
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pickled Onion on March 23, 2016, 06:29:15 pm
There is a R4 programme on at the moment discussing "pattents".

When did a patent become a pattent? No one refers to "pattent leather" and nothing has ever been "pattently obvious" to anyone, so why the widespread mispronunciation of this word?

Generally, esp. outside of USA, paytent = adjective; pattent = noun.

So you are correct, it's *always* paytent leather, but usually The Pattent Office.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: PhilO on March 23, 2016, 07:17:48 pm
Those of us that work in intellectual property always use the pronounciation with a short - 'a'.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on March 23, 2016, 07:20:51 pm
There is a R4 programme on at the moment discussing "pattents".

When did a patent become a pattent? No one refers to "pattent leather" and nothing has ever been "pattently obvious" to anyone, so why the widespread mispronunciation of this word?

My Dad has pronounce this both ways, but mostly 'pattents' for the last four decades
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pingu on April 06, 2016, 04:33:18 pm
6Music newsreader described someone as self-depreciating  :facepalm: :)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on April 06, 2016, 04:57:44 pm
6Music newsreader described someone as self-depreciating  :facepalm: :)

Devalued by their own words?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Bledlow on May 25, 2016, 10:09:58 pm
Ponte Vecchio pronounced "Ponte Vetchio", as if Italian cch is like ch in church. :facepalm: By a BBC newsreader, no less.   :sick:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: rogerzilla on May 25, 2016, 10:15:28 pm
I think we've had it before, but Don McLean's blatant "Febuary" in "American Pie" made me cringe the other day.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hatler on May 25, 2016, 10:41:35 pm
Not 'shiver' ?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on May 26, 2016, 11:02:13 am
I think we've had it before, but Don McLean's blatant "Febuary" in "American Pie" made me cringe the other day.
How else would it scan in the song?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Nuncio on May 26, 2016, 01:04:02 pm
Not 'shiver' ?

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Legs on June 01, 2016, 10:38:11 am
ash-felt  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on June 01, 2016, 10:43:31 am
^^^When I was a nipper I first read that as ash-splat.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on June 02, 2016, 06:21:14 pm
TV's Reeta Chakrabarti keeps referring to the new fivers as being made of "plaarstic".  It grates.  Stop it.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hatler on June 02, 2016, 06:22:55 pm
I had a history teacher who said it that way. But, even worse, those things that were handed to every civilian in WW2 were "garse marsks". Oowwwwwwww.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on June 02, 2016, 06:31:50 pm
I imagine Her Maj used to have a guess maarsk.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on June 02, 2016, 06:55:10 pm
Someone, who shall remain nameless, on moving to Devon went into a pasty shop and asked for a pasty – rhyming it with 'tasty'.   Shop-keeper looked utterly blank.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Bledlow on June 02, 2016, 09:38:50 pm
Is that worse or better than 'parsty'?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on June 02, 2016, 09:45:23 pm
Is that worse or better than 'parsty'?

That was the second attempt.  The proper, local pronunciation is with a long but very open 'a'.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: rogerzilla on June 02, 2016, 10:28:01 pm
Miss Z the younger pronounces "library" as "lah-bray".  This seems worryingly common in the village.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Torslanda on June 03, 2016, 01:14:35 am
Sorry if it's been said before but moosecasters who refer to a minister as the Seckertree of State should be shot through the lungs...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on June 03, 2016, 08:31:10 am
Sorry if it's been said before but moosecasters who refer to a minister as the Seckertree of State should be shot through the lungs...

And the same goes for USAnians who think SCIENTISTS work in labratories.

With square bullets.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on June 03, 2016, 05:49:37 pm
And the same goes for USAnians who think SCIENTISTS work in labratories.

It's where the labrats are kept, innit.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on June 03, 2016, 05:59:10 pm
Miss Z the younger pronounces "library" as "lah-bray".  This seems worryingly common in the village.

It's incredible that young people these days even know the word, never mind how to say it.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on June 03, 2016, 06:40:00 pm
"I often put medicine in my waistcoat". (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spelling_pronunciation)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pedaldog on June 03, 2016, 10:52:33 pm
"Would of"  "Should of"
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Tim Hall on June 06, 2016, 01:48:59 pm
Annoyingly, this pronunciation is probably correct, but I was listening to Joanna Lumley read On Her Majesty's Secret Service the other day, where she kept referring to an Italian car as a "Lanch-ah", rather than the anglicised "Lan-seer".
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Jaded on June 06, 2016, 06:12:32 pm
Annoyingly, this pronunciation is probably correct, but I was listening to Joanna Lumley read On Her Majesty's Secret Service the other day, where she kept referring to an Italian car as a "Lanch-ah", rather than the anglicised "Lan-seer".

Joanna Lumley is allowed to pronounce things however she wants.

It's the Law.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Andrij on June 06, 2016, 07:02:03 pm
Slovlish?

Growing up we were often scolded for speaking half-на-пів, aka Ukrainglish.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Guy on June 07, 2016, 10:04:06 am
Hilary Clinton on the idiot-box just now

"...I have been the Secra-tery of State..."

"ter" pronounced as in "tern"
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on June 07, 2016, 11:09:06 am
"Tern" with a southron R or a real one?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Bledlow on June 07, 2016, 11:17:49 am
Annoyingly, this pronunciation is probably correct, but I was listening to Joanna Lumley read On Her Majesty's Secret Service the other day, where she kept referring to an Italian car as a "Lanch-ah", rather than the anglicised "Lan-seer".
I've never thought of calling a Lancia a 'Lanseer'.  To me. it'd be like saying 'makizmo' when meaning that fine Spanish word machismo ('machissmo'), or 'Byoonuss Air-ez' instead of 'Bwennoss Eye-ress', or the 'J' in Rio de Janeiro as in 'jam'. But I do say Meksiko & Kyooba.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hatler on June 07, 2016, 11:21:46 am
I think the pronunciation intended by "Lan-seer" was "Larn see er". 'Seer' as in one who is currently seeing (two syllables).
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Legs on June 07, 2016, 11:56:15 am
Turmeric :demon: . The shibboleth of the daytime TV celebrity chef.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Guy on June 07, 2016, 11:58:54 am
"Tern" with a southron R or a real one?
As in the way David Attenborough would say "Arctic Tern"
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: fboab on June 07, 2016, 12:53:51 pm


Annoyingly, this pronunciation is probably correct, but I was listening to Joanna Lumley read On Her Majesty's Secret Service the other day, where she kept referring to an Italian car as a "Lanch-ah", rather than the anglicised "Lan-seer".
I've never thought of calling a Lancia a 'Lanseer'.  To me. it'd be like saying 'makizmo' when meaning that fine Spanish word machismo ('machissmo'), or 'Byoonuss Air-ez' instead of 'Bwennoss Eye-ress', or the 'J' in Rio de Janeiro as in 'jam'. But I do say Meksiko & Kyooba.

Yes, but you probably also refuse to say lah-tay and koritzo.
These are words that have been anglicised in exactly the same way that only pretentious wankers in the UK say Pareee.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on June 07, 2016, 01:08:33 pm
"Tern" with a southron R or a real one?
As in the way David Attenborough would say "Arctic Tern"

I have rarely heard the gent.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Bledlow on June 07, 2016, 03:15:15 pm


Annoyingly, this pronunciation is probably correct, but I was listening to Joanna Lumley read On Her Majesty's Secret Service the other day, where she kept referring to an Italian car as a "Lanch-ah", rather than the anglicised "Lan-seer".
I've never thought of calling a Lancia a 'Lanseer'.  To me. it'd be like saying 'makizmo' when meaning that fine Spanish word machismo ('machissmo'), or 'Byoonuss Air-ez' instead of 'Bwennoss Eye-ress', or the 'J' in Rio de Janeiro as in 'jam'. But I do say Meksiko & Kyooba.

Yes, but you probably also refuse to say lah-tay and koritzo.
These are words that have been anglicised in exactly the same way that only pretentious wankers in the UK say Pareee.
I had to think about lah-tay for a moment.  ;D

Ah, choritho/choriso (both valid, depending on your preferred variety of Spanish)! It's one of those words which I really don't understand the mutilation of. As long as the ch is pronounced as in church, the i as in it, & the stress is somewhere near the middle, all of which are perfectly normal in English, it's pretty close to the original, & sounds fine. Why would anyone want to use the pronunciation of the wrong foreign language?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on June 07, 2016, 04:03:54 pm
I'm with the esteemed fboab, if you're speaking English, pronounce it as English, rather than pretentious faux-foreign. Chorizo is chore-eez-o and latte is lat-tay (no lah'ing about it, that's just the foul estuarines and their brackish linguistic affectations). You should hear an Italian pronounce 'steak and kidney' before any words are said about the British pronounciation of latte.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 07, 2016, 04:08:00 pm
Everyone knows that latte rhymes with this place: http://streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=371365&Y=182608&A=Y&Z=120
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Bledlow on June 07, 2016, 04:09:28 pm
Nope - too many t's.

Ian -

Yeah, fine. Choreezo & lattay are OK. Infinitely preferable to the faux-foreign versions that get the bloody languages wrong. Though I don't know what's wrong with saying 'milk' instead of saying it in (usually mispronounced) Italian.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on June 07, 2016, 04:12:32 pm
^^^Tend to agree, but not 100%.  It depends on how well-known the correct pronunciations are. Someone talking about Lyon as if it's a singular Corner House sounds daft, ditto a English-speaker talking about Paree. Putting a T on the end of Camembert sounds bloody ignorant. Etc.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: pcolbeck on June 07, 2016, 04:12:47 pm
Mrs Pcolbeck's pronunciation when she is navigating in France. Its probably correct as she does speak some French but I don't speak any (never even did French at school). She insists on giving me directions with all the place names pronounced in French which doesn't help when I am reading the signs as they come up phonetically.
We argue about this, quite a lot ....
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on June 07, 2016, 04:18:50 pm
When we were driving round our new area when we first got to France we referred to La Ferté Alais as Farty Alice.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: pcolbeck on June 07, 2016, 04:23:36 pm
When we were driving round our new area when we first got to France we referred to La Ferté Alais as Farty Alice.

 :thumbsup: That would do me for navigational purposes T42.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hatler on June 07, 2016, 04:24:35 pm
And it's pretty easy to guess what we called this place (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.592587,0.0492221,15z) when we were staying nearby.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 07, 2016, 04:32:05 pm
Nope - too many t's.
Nope, cos it's a joke to do with gentrification. The town is pronounced "yeht" the joke is that it's now "yah-tay".
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on June 07, 2016, 04:35:41 pm
Nope - too many t's.

Ian -

Yeah, fine. Choreezo & lattay are OK. Infinitely preferable to the faux-foreign versions that get the bloody languages wrong. Though I don't know what's wrong with saying 'milk' instead of saying it in (usually mispronounced) Italian.

Because I want milky coffee rather than a glass of hot milk? That's a lat-tay. OK, I pronounce mojito with a H and caipirinha with my finger, à la that one please. I went to comprehensive school. I think I mentioned the existential despair of our French teacher, Ms Brassiere, faced with years of her precious favourite language being rendered in pure Erewashian. If I drew a venn diagram of sounds present in Erewashian and sounds present in French, you could drive a supertanker through the gap between them.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 07, 2016, 05:54:36 pm
The idea of road-runner passing through Clement Freud is... somewhat unsavoury.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on June 07, 2016, 06:35:18 pm
USAnia is not immune, with its Cheesypeas Bay and Lake Haversack City.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Bledlow on June 07, 2016, 11:26:20 pm
Nope - too many t's.

Ian -

Yeah, fine. Choreezo & lattay are OK. Infinitely preferable to the faux-foreign versions that get the bloody languages wrong. Though I don't know what's wrong with saying 'milk' instead of saying it in (usually mispronounced) Italian.

Because I want milky coffee rather than a glass of hot milk? That's a lat-tay.
I have been informed that one should not try that in Italy.

Not that I've ever tried using USAian terms for drink in Italy. 'Caffè' works fine, as does 'birra'.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Jaded on June 08, 2016, 12:08:19 am
USAnia is not immune, with its Cheesypeas Bay and Lake Haversack City.

And the seminal Yo! Semite!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Andrij on June 08, 2016, 03:15:56 pm
USAnia is not immune, with its Cheesypeas Bay and Lake Haversack City.

And the seminal Yo! Semite!

 ;D
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ham on June 08, 2016, 07:24:29 pm
The ultimate challenge for non French speakers is to get directions to Reims from a local.

(FTR, the pronunciation is nearer to R-r-rums, Reems will get you a VERY blank look)

ETA - MP3 here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9T4PWP3pT5mcF8xbFJYS19aRjA/edit)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Legs on June 09, 2016, 10:39:01 am
Masseuse.  Rhymes with 'is-and-'ers, not with hoots-mon-there's-a-moose.  FFS.  On R2, Simon Salad Cream was even referring to a (male) masseur as a "massoos" the other night...  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on June 09, 2016, 10:54:28 am
With you on that one, Legs - it's even more irritating than lon-jer-ay.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Guy on June 09, 2016, 12:57:45 pm
Colleague on phone just now:

Quote
There's nobody here today. They're all at the National Arbortorium
;D :facepalm:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: clarion on June 09, 2016, 01:57:49 pm
USAnia is not immune, with its Cheesypeas Bay and Lake Haversack City.

And the seminal Yo! Semite!

 ;D
We'll have no anti-yosemitism in here!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: clarion on June 09, 2016, 02:01:39 pm
ian's mention of Erewash reminds me of a pronunciation I managed that made me cringe.  I'd not lived in Derby long, and there was a Geography lesson.  I thought it was funny to call a place ear-wash, but that's how I read it out, to a shocked silence and then gales of laughter.

I should worry - I come from the land that gave us Keighley and Embsay and Cracoe and Grassington...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on June 09, 2016, 02:20:45 pm
Yes, it's Erry-wash, though there's some local dispute about the exact ways to place emphasis and how much to flatten that y. No one says Ear-wash though. That's almost as bad as saying the -kes- in the Ilkeston. That's a cue for the torching parade.

I still remember when I took my American gf on an expedition to the area. As someone who thought we all spoke like characters in Four Weddings and a Funeral her gradual horror was something to behold. My parents would say something to her and she'd just look blank* before finally nodding and making what she hoped was the right sort of agreeable noise.

*actually this is common, if you're British and you ever speak to an American, look for that half-second cognitive gap before they catch – if, on the other hand, you're British and have a strong dialect, look for two day cognitive gap before they go back to Boston and confess they didn't understand a single word that anyone said to them during the previous two days.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Guy on June 09, 2016, 02:46:53 pm
*actually this is common, if you're British and you ever speak to an American, look for that half-second cognitive gap before they catch ask if you're Australian – if, on the other hand, you're British and have a strong dialect, look for two day cognitive gap before they go back to Boston and confess they didn't understand a single word that anyone said to them during the previous two days.
How many times was I asked that one? ::-)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on June 09, 2016, 05:13:26 pm
The first time I was asked if I was a refugee from Captain Cook's Mistake by a USAnian I was this: surprised.  OTOH they haven't had the "Every day is Australia Day/Sons & Daughters and Home & Away" 'cultural' bombardment that we BRITONS have suffered over the past Several of decades, but they've all seen "Crocodile Dundee".  Haven't they?

A chap in Savannah GA once took time out from extolling the virtues of his brother's crab shack to a bunch of Germans to say "Yorkshire and Essex" at me.  Spook!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on June 09, 2016, 05:53:15 pm
I've shed most of the more obscure accoutrements of a dialect and accent that greets outlanders from the other side of the coal tip and surface-dwellers with 'ah-artayahreetmaduck?'* but Americans are confused by the fact that I don't sound like escapee from Downton Abbey. I blame the TV and PBS in particular. I still get the Australian and, curiously, South African.

It's true that some East Midlands vowels do sound like they're a fart that's slowly bubbled up through a mud bath, and it's so regional that even the BBC are 'really, no, I really don't think so, let's a get another Geordie in'.

*Stolen from the internet (http://everything2.com/title/Ayup+Mi+Duck+-+A+Brief+Guide+to+the+Nottingham+Dialect) because I can't be arsed to phonetically transcribe, but it sums it up.
Quote
"Ayup miduck, yahreet?"
"Orlright, marrah, burrahm not backter wok yit. Ows yer babbi?"
"Oh, eez pawleh, an ees grizzlin cosee bont hissen on the stoave too. Learn im ter keep is dannies off tho."
"Bet yer missis wuz fritterdeth!"
"Sheworratthat, but she'll coap. Where yowoff"?"
"Ahm gooin uptahn"
"Yawarkin, errint car?"
"Car? Ah soadit ter that immazatoadyabaht, as bought ahr Tracey's ahse"
"Im wi nebbeh wahf?"
"Yeah, ee paid five undred quid an she were reet mardy, ad a baggon for days"
"Ahl gerterahrahse! Yow spawni bogga, it want woth arfa that!"
"Ah know, but ee were needeh"
"Well, ahd better goo backom, bit black ovver Bills"
"Well, tek care, me owd"
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: SteveC on June 09, 2016, 06:22:55 pm
A Canadian 'sort of great niece' of ours (it's a complicated family) was taken to the Globe in London as a special treat. She said that she couldn't understand a single word they were saying.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on June 09, 2016, 09:33:48 pm
I checked (Googled) and it's true, they never let East Midlands people on the TV or radio and certainly not mud-jawed Erewashians. Yet at the same time, every single person in Manchester now seems to have some kind of BBC presence, either a radio or TV show. The even let Brummies on TV occasionally, though sensibly not too often as they'd probably eat the sets.

In every DH Lawrence adaptation I've seen all the actors put on a bloody Yorkshire accent.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on June 10, 2016, 01:03:24 am
Love, Nina (currently showing on BBC1) is notable for the lead having a pronounced Leicester accent.

At least, it's supposed to be Leicester, but it could be Nottingham or Coventry for all I know. Or even Ashby de la Zouch. But it's definitely East rather than West Midlands.

A former girlfriend was from Leicester, so I should know this.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on June 10, 2016, 08:01:05 am
Leicester is distinct accent, very different to Nottingham* and Derby (which are different from each other). Erewashian is a product of that linguistic tension between Nottingham and Derby and the fact that until St Thatcher of Grantham liberated them in the mid-1980s everyone lived underground with little outside contact. Even now, giving the surrounding geography of coal tips, there's little interaction with the outside world other than getting the bus down Nottingham on Friday night for a piss-up.

*I believe Albert Finney is famed for doing Saturday Night and Sunday Morning in a Mancunian accent.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hujev on June 15, 2016, 08:11:46 pm
Not so much prnonunciation as 'voice fad', but here in the us the epidemic of vocal fry, whiny &, nasally voices, and 'talking like an 11 year old' (= contrived 'child-like-wonder-ness') in radio, esp the so-called 'public' radio (aka 'npr'; usually university owned/operated, stations so not actually public) has become overwhelmingly annoting. Seems to be related to the cult of self, constant need to be noticed, and 'announcer as celebrity'. This disease has spread to most people in the general population as well, esp. female, under 40 or 50. Amazing how fast the 'voice' of a country can change in just 5-10 years.

I note that BBC still attempts to use proper English, following the now apparently outmoded idea of newsreader as unbiased medium not meant to be the star. At least the little bit of BBC I can get (since they ditched shortwave). If this vocal fry and nasally-ness begins to creep into the UK I'd advise a massive public movement against it as soon as possible!

Geez, I ought to actually post something velo-related here... have been slacking with the Cat pictures and now this!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on June 15, 2016, 09:19:25 pm
In BRITAIN we have instead the practice of speaking in a faux-Afro-Caribbean accent, a hateful trend started started by notable S-T and son of an Anglican bishop Tim Westwood and slavishly adopted by everyone from the "Remain" campaign to, er, some other people.  Including Lewis Hamilton, who ought to know better.  Innit.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pingu on June 20, 2016, 11:17:20 pm
The ultimate challenge for non French speakers is to get directions to Reims from a local.

(FTR, the pronunciation is nearer to R-r-rums, Reems will get you a VERY blank look)

ETA - MP3 here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9T4PWP3pT5mcF8xbFJYS19aRjA/edit)

Page 4 (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=63995.msg1752015#msg1752015)  :-[
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on June 21, 2016, 08:29:47 am
And anyway it's closer to Rhance.  Nice place.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 21, 2016, 10:09:56 am
How do people pronounce Nike? I mean the sportswear manufacturer not the Greek goddess, the literary award or any other use of the name. I don't remember hearing it at all before the late '80s (perhaps it wasn't in Britain until then?) and then it was one syllable, rhyming with bike. Later it became two syllables, "ny kee". Apparently that was the correct, cos Usanian, way. And now it seems to be back to one syllable.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on June 21, 2016, 10:35:21 am
Like this:

(http://cdn.quotesgram.com/small/29/46/1350161322-Pikey-just-nick-it-tshirt-nike-300x156.jpg)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 21, 2016, 10:40:44 am
 ;D :D :D ;D
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on June 21, 2016, 10:42:24 am
In France it still rhymes with bike, because the the Arabic verb "to fuck" has been adopted into French as "niquer".  So if your name is Nicolas watch out how you introduce yourself, esp to Arabs.  Saying "je m'appelle Neek" to someone's sister could be fatal.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on August 15, 2016, 04:20:15 pm
The US pronunciation of "buoy" as "booie".
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: rogerzilla on August 15, 2016, 08:37:28 pm
The US pronunciation of "buoy" as "booie".
Apparently restricted to certain parts of the US (they say "boy" elsewhere)  but notorious for its use in "Crimson Tide".
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on August 16, 2016, 07:33:36 am
It's bouée in French, so it's probably in Louisiana or next door to Canada that it's booie.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on August 16, 2016, 08:50:27 am
You'll be pleased to know that Lifebuoy soap is pronounced in the thread-approved manner throughout the US.

(I've only heard boo-ey out in the west and let's face it, buoy just ain't a word for the respectin' cowboy, it's certainly 'boy' up in New England and down the eastern seaboard.)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Tim Hall on August 16, 2016, 09:41:28 am
You'll be pleased to know that Lifebuoy soap is pronounced in the thread-approved manner throughout the US.

(I've only heard boo-ey out in the west and let's face it, buoy just ain't a word for the respectin' cowboy, it's certainly 'boy' up in New England and down the eastern seaboard.)

Perhaps south of Mason-Dixon they're worried that saying "boy" will be taken the wrong way.  (It's boo-ey in Houston)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: clarion on August 16, 2016, 02:07:45 pm
In France it still rhymes with bike, because the the Arabic verb "to fuck" has been adopted into French as "niquer".  So if your name is Nicolas watch out how you introduce yourself, esp to Arabs.  Saying "je m'appelle Neek" to someone's sister could be fatal.
I was once romantically involved with a woman called Mutiatu Agbeke Omobonike Imoru, or Nike for short.  She was 'Knee-Kay'
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: clarion on August 16, 2016, 02:10:35 pm
Aaaaanyway, I would like to advise the BBC that no, Jessica Ennis-Hill did not win a medal in the 'heptathalon' >:(
Have we got a week of grindingly awful presenters talking about 'athaletes' ahead? >:(

Meanwhile, I would humbly suggest that, if you are commissioning a service to conduct hepatobiliary procedures, that you learn to pronounce it, especially after you have had it explained to you.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on August 16, 2016, 03:28:46 pm
If you conduct seven hepatobiliary procedures in a row, is that a heptohepatobiliathon?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: clarion on August 19, 2016, 09:34:57 am
Oh! L :(

Otherwise, good effort. :)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on August 19, 2016, 12:47:19 pm
I chose -athon rather than -athlon to suggest endurance rather than turning surgery into a mere sporting event. Though synchronised surgery might fit nicely into the Olympics.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Legs on September 27, 2016, 11:47:02 am
Gallant pronounced gal-LANT really annoys me.  Vanessa Feltz said "ungal-LANT" this morning and it offended my ears.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: clarion on September 27, 2016, 02:15:33 pm
Vanessa Feltz ...offended my ears.
Surely?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Legs on September 27, 2016, 04:27:06 pm
Pretty much.  I'm usually too drowsy at 6:25am to care much about her prattling (and TBF it's a lot better than Sarah F***ing Kennedy...) 
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: clarion on September 27, 2016, 05:39:20 pm
Having your brains scooped out with a rusty fork is better than listening to Sarah Kennedy.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: rogerzilla on September 28, 2016, 09:04:28 pm
Didn't Sarah Kennedy start the pampas grass/swinger meme?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: orienteer on September 28, 2016, 09:32:51 pm
On the London/SE BBC local news this evening, there was an item on new buses in Reading which have several new features. One interviewee said he liked the whiffy.


The interviewer :"Wi-fi".
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on September 28, 2016, 10:25:20 pm
But maybe he was actually praising the olfactory improvements.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Bledlow on September 29, 2016, 11:59:26 am
Was it one of the Whitley routes?

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/whitley-whiff-back-town-11285868 (http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/whitley-whiff-back-town-11285868)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: orienteer on September 29, 2016, 01:08:20 pm
Don't think they were the bio-methane powered ones either.  :)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on November 12, 2016, 01:15:34 pm
Did that historian on Netflix's fetchingly-titled Rome: Reign of Blood really pronounce Epictitus as Epic Titties? Maybe his mind was elsewhere.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Legs on April 03, 2017, 02:39:07 pm
Another one prompted by R2:  Firm Bottom referred to the Kiki Dee song Amoureuse as if it should rhyme with 'moose'.  I'd bet she says massoose instead of masseuse.  And probably refers to male masseurs as massooses.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: clarion on April 03, 2017, 05:01:42 pm
Did that historian on Netflix's fetchingly-titled Rome: Reign of Blood really pronounce Epictitus as Epic Titties? Maybe his mind was elsewhere.
Epictetus, surely?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on April 03, 2017, 06:19:57 pm
Another one prompted by R2:  Firm Bottom referred to the Kiki Dee song Amoureuse as if it should rhyme with 'moose'.  I'd bet she says massoose instead of masseuse.  And probably refers to male masseurs as massooses.  :facepalm:

I think that's a USAnian affectation; it bugs me bigly when people refer to the singer on a Several of tracks on the first Velvet Underground album as "German chantoose Nico".
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pingu on May 20, 2017, 08:22:10 pm
Stephen Mangan on the Fake News Show reckons the town in Aberdeenshire, Crathes, is pronounced 'Crayths'.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Quisling on May 22, 2017, 10:03:10 am
Mrs Q pronounces palatable thus: "Puh-latt-abble".
Any fool knows it is "pallet-abble"
Isn't it?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hatler on May 22, 2017, 10:44:12 am
It is.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Guy on May 30, 2017, 01:03:25 pm
Awre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awre)

I've not been there, but I have seen signposts pointing to it. How the blurry eck am I supposed to pronounce it?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Salvatore on May 30, 2017, 01:10:01 pm
The US pronunciation of "buoy" as "booie".

How do you pronounce ‘buoy’? In this bonus episode, we explore the history of the word and the reasons why the word is pronounced differently in various parts of the English-speaking world. (http://historyofenglishpodcast.com/2013/10/29/bonus-episode-4-let-me-buoy-your-spirits/)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: asterix on May 30, 2017, 05:58:57 pm
Booie is East Anglian.  The US accent owes quite a bit to East Anglia.

If you have trouble pronouncing French place names don't expect your satnav to help you.  Mine makes 'Rouen' completely unrecognisable as a word of any kind.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on May 30, 2017, 06:19:43 pm
Booie is East Anglian.  The US accent owes quite a bit to East Anglia.

If you have trouble pronouncing French place names don't expect your satnav to help you.  Mine makes 'Rouen' completely unrecognisable as a word of any kind.

Satnav can be WEIRD everywhere! Last week it told my driver to 'Turn right onto the Aten Undred' and only my local knowledge recognised this as the A1000...

American satnavs name Colindeep Lane Co-LINE-deep Lane.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: jsabine on May 30, 2017, 08:28:19 pm
Booie is East Anglian.  The US accent owes quite a bit to East Anglia.

If you have trouble pronouncing French place names don't expect your satnav to help you.  Mine makes 'Rouen' completely unrecognisable as a word of any kind.

Satnav can be WEIRD everywhere! Last week it told my driver to 'Turn right onto the Aten Undred' and only my local knowledge recognised this as the A1000...

American satnavs name Colindeep Lane Co-LINE-deep Lane.

I am aware of certain satnavs that like to include the postcode when they read out the address or instructions, but haven't quite got the hang of splitting the letters and numbers up - "Turn left onto Trafalgar Road Sehten."
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on May 31, 2017, 08:27:22 am
The US pronunciation of "buoy" as "booie".

How do you pronounce ‘buoy’? In this bonus episode, we explore the history of the word and the reasons why the word is pronounced differently in various parts of the English-speaking world. (http://historyofenglishpodcast.com/2013/10/29/bonus-episode-4-let-me-buoy-your-spirits/)

Yes. I looked into that back then.

More succinct here:

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/24318/the-pronunciation-of-buoy
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on May 31, 2017, 11:02:40 am
Booie is East Anglian.  The US accent owes quite a bit to East Anglia.

If you have trouble pronouncing French place names don't expect your satnav to help you.  Mine makes 'Rouen' completely unrecognisable as a word of any kind.

Satnav can be WEIRD everywhere! Last week it told my driver to 'Turn right onto the Aten Undred' and only my local knowledge recognised this as the A1000...

American satnavs name Colindeep Lane Co-LINE-deep Lane.

I am aware of certain satnavs that like to include the postcode when they read out the address or instructions, but haven't quite got the hang of splitting the letters and numbers up - "Turn left onto Trafalgar Road Sehten."

Shame they don't yet have an algorithm that translates Sehten to Grennich...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Legs on June 01, 2017, 10:00:05 am
Awre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awre)

I've not been there, but I have seen signposts pointing to it. How the blurry eck am I supposed to pronounce it?

When driving down to see my sister-in-law in Kentcestershire last weekend, we passed, within minutes, signs for Wrotham, Ightham and Trottiscliffe.  (Root-em, Item and Trosley, for the uninitiated.)  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ham on June 02, 2017, 05:18:54 pm
Booie is East Anglian.  The US accent owes quite a bit to East Anglia.

If you have trouble pronouncing French place names don't expect your satnav to help you.  Mine makes 'Rouen' completely unrecognisable as a word of any kind.

Satnav can be WEIRD everywhere! Last week it told my driver to 'Turn right onto the Aten Undred' and only my local knowledge recognised this as the A1000...

American satnavs name Colindeep Lane Co-LINE-deep Lane.

I am aware of certain satnavs that like to include the postcode when they read out the address or instructions, but haven't quite got the hang of splitting the letters and numbers up - "Turn left onto Trafalgar Road Sehten."

Ridewithgps voice instructions try their best with road numbering: recently, in the Lugo area of Spain, LU-P500 was translated to "loopy five hundred"
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on August 10, 2017, 01:02:14 pm
The France Info radio station have their own app and refer to it as "l'appli mobile France Info", which always comes across as "la Playmobil France Info".
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Vince on September 01, 2017, 10:15:14 am
Dear American friends, there is an 'L' in solder. Please use it!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on October 03, 2017, 08:24:37 am
Yet again heard someone - on the box, natch - say FREquented when they meant freQUENTed. Bleh.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: pcolbeck on October 03, 2017, 11:03:22 am
Dear American friends, there is an 'L' in solder. Please use it!

That one gets me too.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Legs on October 03, 2017, 12:51:42 pm
I am aware of certain satnavs that like to include the postcode when they read out the address or instructions, but haven't quite got the hang of splitting the letters and numbers up - "Turn left onto Trafalgar Road Sehten."

My great aunt Fil pronounces Trafalgar as "truffle-gar"  :)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on November 11, 2017, 06:21:38 pm
If TV's Reeta Chakrabarti refers to the German motor-car maker that uses a three-pointed star on its badge as "Mercy-dees" once more I may turn violent.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on November 11, 2017, 07:07:29 pm
I am getting a bit discombobulated by the on-board bus stop announcements putting the stress in the wrong places eg 'Gondor GARdens' or 'Colindale AVEnue'.

This makes the announcement much less useful as there are many streets called *** Gardens.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: clarion on November 13, 2017, 02:19:47 pm
Dear American friends, there is an 'L' in solder. Please use it!

That one gets me too.
This one! 

And, why do they pronounce 'mirror' as 'mere'? 
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Nuncio on November 13, 2017, 03:24:09 pm
Dear American friends, there is an 'L' in solder. Please use it!

There's an 'r' in 'solder' which I don't pronounce.  I've not had any rhotacizing Americans complain about that to me.

I don't have the resources to check the etymology, but it appears there was an old French 'soudeur' along the line somewhere.  Maybe the dialects of some of the US settlers still reflected that, and that was the one that stuck. Vive la différence!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on November 13, 2017, 06:28:56 pm
Dear American friends, there is an 'L' in solder. Please use it!

That one gets me too.
This one! 

And, why do they pronounce 'mirror' as 'mere'?

Step forward His Bobness.  That many lyrics sites have him singing "She's delicate and seems like veneer" in Visions Of Johanna shows just how guilty he is.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on November 13, 2017, 06:42:52 pm
Dear American friends, there is an 'L' in solder. Please use it!

That one gets me too.
This one!

I looked this one up last night.  The evidence isn't entirely clear, but suggests that, as usual, it's a case of the leftpondians sticking with the original pronunciation while the Brits went and Frenched it up, but that doesn't make it any less grating.

Anyway.... I propose a moratorium on previous pronunciations, and that we all adopt the following system:

Solder ('sole-derr') for an alloy primarily composed of tin and lead, and as a verb for joining metal using a low-melting-point filler.

Sodder ('sod-er') for all non-lead-based alloys optimistically intended to be used for soldering electrical connections, and as a verb for failing to make such connections in a satisfactory manner.

Hence: "My cheap shitty pink USB charger from China stopped working because of crappy sodder joints, so I had to re-solder them."

Or: "Ach, you've soddered it!" "But I'm using 60:40!" "Try turning the soldering iron temperature down a bit and use more flux..."

It's easy to remember...  "L is for lead" and "sodder's a right sod to work with".


Quote
And, why do they pronounce 'mirror' as 'mere'?

I think it's more 'me-orr', which just makes me imagine Eyore's obnoxious younger sibling...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on November 14, 2017, 09:26:02 am
Dear American friends, there is an 'L' in solder. Please use it!

There's an 'r' in 'solder' which I don't pronounce.  I've not had any rhotacizing Americans complain about that to me.

I don't have the resources to check the etymology, but it appears there was an old French 'soudeur' along the line somewhere.  Maybe the dialects of some of the US settlers still reflected that, and that was the one that stuck. Vive la différence!

Old old French has it as souldre, so they lost the L and the UK lost the U.  Confusingly, souder also means to weld.

This bloke's missing Ts make me wince: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM6mzE5lQ0w&t=201s bu wha do you expec these days?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pickled Onion on December 02, 2017, 07:41:14 pm
I have just started working at a place where they have an enormous number of mnemonics. But why does everyone insist on calling them pneumonics?

I've also logged an issue that, although the company is from the US, we work in in the UK, and here schedule does not have a K in it.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on December 02, 2017, 08:02:10 pm
I've also logged an issue that, although the company is from the US, we work in in the UK, and here schedule does not have a K in it.

I can never remember which one it's supposed to be  :-[
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on December 04, 2017, 07:31:22 pm
Apparently the cricket team of the BRITONS' England taking four quick Australian wickets has given them a slither of hope of salvaging the second Test :facepalm:

Get in the cannon.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on December 05, 2017, 01:06:44 pm
Not a new one but I've heard it a few times recently and it's most irksome...

'Coup de grace' pronounced as 'coo de grah'.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: pcolbeck on December 05, 2017, 01:12:30 pm
Not a new one but I've heard it a few times recently and it's most irksome...

'Coup de grace' pronounced as 'coo de grah'.

That's really common. So common that I though it was correct (its not its "Coo de grass") Mind you I never did French at school so have no idea how French pronunciation works.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on December 05, 2017, 01:21:32 pm
Mind you I never did French at school so have no idea how French pronunciation works.

I have to admit that I am on shaky ground here - I studied French to degree level but my pronunciation is appalling. Once when I was speaking to a French friend he cracked up laughing because my pronunciation of 'coup' sounded more like 'cul' to him...

If you're not careful, you could end up saying 'fat arsehole' rather than 'killer blow'.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: pcolbeck on December 05, 2017, 01:28:50 pm
Master Pcolbeck has an impeccable southern French accent (Arles to be precise) due to him attending French classes with a teacher who was a native of Arles on a farm down the road when he was at primary school (she was a qualified teacher as well as farmers wife and the kids had a ball learning the names for piglets etc). Unfortunately he hated languages at secondary school (said the teacher couldn't pronounce anything correctly) and gave it up ASAP.
This has resulted in him at 21 having a French  accent like a native but the vocabulary of a 10 year old English primary school kid. Always results in much hilarity on holiday when he asks for something in a shop etc as they assume he can speak French properly and reply with a high speed tirade of French which leaves him completely clueless.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on December 05, 2017, 01:41:07 pm
I pronounce all French words as though they are English, mostly to annoy people, and especially to annoy French people.

And then there's the English people who throw their nasally Frenchified inflections onto such words as 'entourage.' I'd guillotine the pretentious fuckers.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: pcolbeck on December 05, 2017, 01:46:52 pm
Mrs Pcolbeck annoys me when she's navigating by doing that. She will make a stab at the French pronunciation of some town saying something like "take the exit of the roundabout in the direction of xxxxxxx" then get annoyed when I get it wrong as her pronunciation bears no resemblance to how the place is spelt. How the hell am I to know that's how it sounds?
Apart from that she is a fantastic navigator I must admit, has got us all over France with just a Michelin map for years before we had SatNav and even now she often comes up with a better route.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on December 05, 2017, 01:53:44 pm
In my first year of secondary school, I had two French teachers, both French natives. One was from Paris, the other from Marseille. They could barely understand a word each other said. What chance did us poor kids have?

(I think the Marseille accent is roughly the French equivalent of Glaswegian. If they ever did a French remake of Rab C Nesbitt, it would have to be set in Marseille.)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on December 05, 2017, 02:02:04 pm
I've described what a bunch of dialectically challenged English schoolchildren did to the French language and our poor teacher Ms Brassiere. God, that must have been grim, we couldn't even speak English that was intelligible to anyone who lived more than 5 miles away. I think she gave up in the end and just downed a bottle of Courvoisier before and after every lesson.

For entertainment, get a formal Frenchy and drop them in a room with a Quebecois. Get some popcorn and find a comfy seat.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: SteveC on December 05, 2017, 07:05:07 pm
For entertainment, get a formal Frenchy and drop them in a room with a Quebecois. Get some popcorn and find a comfy seat.
I used to have a Quebecois colleague whose French girlfriend would only speak to him (and only acknowledge what he was saying) in English as she thought his French was so bad.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: clarion on December 06, 2017, 08:48:19 am
Not a new one but I've heard it a few times recently and it's most irksome...

'Coup de grace' pronounced as 'coo de grah'.

'Cul de gras'? ;)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ham on December 06, 2017, 03:48:46 pm
Mrs Pcolbeck annoys me when she's navigating by doing that. She will make a stab at the French pronunciation of some town saying something like "take the exit of the roundabout in the direction of xxxxxxx" then get annoyed when I get it wrong as her pronunciation bears no resemblance to how the place is spelt. How the hell am I to know that's how it sounds?
Apart from that she is a fantastic navigator I must admit, has got us all over France with just a Michelin map for years before we had SatNav and even now she often comes up with a better route.

Are Mrs Ham & Mrs Pcolbeck related? Anyhow we opt for AngliFronk names to avoid confusion, such as aiming for Clement Freud - doesn't everyone?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on December 13, 2017, 01:35:05 pm
Consequences of not pronouncing your aitches: just saw a French advert for an Overboard Electrique.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on December 29, 2017, 11:57:33 am
I do not know who was fronting the BBC News Channel last night before Martine Croxall and her new specs took over, but it seems that new Liberian president George Weah made his name playing foopball for "AC Milaaahhhhn".

FX: >>> THWACK!!1! <<<
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on December 29, 2017, 06:15:49 pm
'Often', pronouncing the 'T', is becoming more common—"Spelling pronunciation" says the Oxford Guide dismissively.

I have only once heard 'soften' pronounced with the 'T'. 
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on December 30, 2017, 12:16:18 am
'Often', pronouncing the 'T', is becoming more common—"Spelling pronunciation" says the Oxford Guide dismissively.

I have only once heard 'soften' pronounced with the 'T'.

I think this is subject to regional variation.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on January 05, 2018, 09:10:53 pm
In a similar vein: Gee-ography and Thee-atre

Diphthongs, people. Diphthongs.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on January 05, 2018, 09:13:40 pm
Also: tyoomeric

Ignorant tyoods
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: spesh on January 05, 2018, 09:37:44 pm
Diphthongs, people. Diphthongs.

Aren't they Brazilian beach wear (hence the "Brazilian" wax)?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pickled Onion on January 06, 2018, 08:14:22 am
In a similar vein: Gee-ography and Thee-atre

Diphthongs, people. Diphthongs.

Newsreader on BBC WS last weekend kept talking about the eye-ron fist.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pickled Onion on January 06, 2018, 08:18:22 am
Also: tyoomeric

Ignorant tyoods

Tyoomeric is what you add to Basmarti rice. For a dish flavoured with coomin.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on January 06, 2018, 06:50:17 pm
In a similar vein: Gee-ography and Thee-atre

Diphthongs, people. Diphthongs.

Newsreader on BBC WS last weekend kept talking about the eye-ron fist.

Isn't this common usage north of Hadrian's Wall?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 06, 2018, 08:35:09 pm
Chemistry teacher used to deliberately talk about "eye-ron ions" to avoid confusion. Normally he was non-rhotic.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2018, 09:13:11 pm
Chemistry teacher used to deliberately talk about "eye-ron ions" to avoid confusion. Normally he was non-rhotic.

In computer science we had "class of class clarse" because it's hard to do CamelCase and courier font in speech.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: izza on January 07, 2018, 08:57:15 am
Shrewsbury is not a home for shrews.

It is a place for adding an ‘r’ to a show.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on January 07, 2018, 11:01:07 am
I was surprised when my Aberystwyth-dwelling daughter pronounced it "Shrew". She maintained that both pronunciations were correct because people used both "these days". "Aye, and lots of them are wrong" she didn't appreciate.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: izza on January 07, 2018, 11:19:07 am
I was surprised when my Aberystwyth-dwelling daughter pronounced it "Shrew". She maintained that both pronunciations were correct because people used both "these days". "Aye, and lots of them are wrong" she didn't appreciate.

Haha.

Ask her to speak to a Shrewsbury resident for the correct pronunciation. It’s the outsiders (which make up the major majority) that don’t get it.

Am listening to Talksport where DJ says one version whilst newsreader says the other. Sort it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on January 07, 2018, 11:31:43 am
I used to know a chap from Whitchurch who pronounced it to rhyme with shrew.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on January 07, 2018, 01:04:40 pm
Shrewsbury is not a home for shrews.

It is a place for adding an ‘r’ to a show.

When I explained this to barakta she didn't believe me.  Cited the destination announcements on the train.

The problem comes when you use the correct pronunciation and people don't know what you're talking about.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hubner on January 07, 2018, 01:13:10 pm
Has anyone been to or is from Keighley, W Yorks?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on January 07, 2018, 01:15:24 pm
Has anyone been to or is from Keighley, W Yorks?

It's one of those places that people come from rather than go to, isn't it?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hubner on January 07, 2018, 01:20:55 pm
Oh lots of people go there...on their way to Haworth.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Peter on January 07, 2018, 01:22:26 pm
I used to know a chap from Whitchurch who pronounced it to rhyme with shrew.

I think it's always been Whitchurch......
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on January 07, 2018, 01:30:28 pm
I used to know a chap from Whitchurch who pronounced it to rhyme with shrew.

I think it's always been Whitchurch......

:facepalm:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Peter on January 07, 2018, 01:31:26 pm
Heppy New Year, D!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 07, 2018, 01:36:15 pm
Back when I was young enough to have a girlfriend, I had a girlfriend who lived in Shrewsbury. She and all her family, who had lived there since the early Pleistocene, pronounced it like the small mammal. Just to add to the confusion, we met in the capital of the Ukraine; which back then was generally known as Kiev, is now Kiyiv and which my wife would probably call Kijów.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 07, 2018, 01:36:48 pm
The problem comes when you use the correct pronunciation and people don't know what you're talking about.
Erm yes...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on January 07, 2018, 01:37:59 pm
Cited the destination announcements on the train.

Meopham in Kent has always been Meppem to me, but the on-train robot pronounces it as Meffum. Presumably based on a set of prescribed pronunciation rules rather than being taught the idiosyncratic reality.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on January 07, 2018, 01:57:01 pm
Shrewsbury is not a home for shrews.

It is a place for adding an ‘r’ to a show.

When I explained this to barakta she didn't believe me.  Cited the destination announcements on the train.

The problem comes when you use the correct pronunciation and people don't know what you're talking about.

I wonder if the deviant pronunciation wasn't promulgated by railway announcements in the first place, for the sake of "clarity".

@Lee: How about shrew in Shrewsbury? The Romans ate dormice, after all.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on January 07, 2018, 01:57:16 pm
Has anyone been to or is from Keighley, W Yorks?

Lt. Col. Larrington (retd.) was born there.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: andrew_s on January 07, 2018, 02:30:57 pm
When I was a kid, my dad used to routinely (and deliberately) mispronounce Penelope as "Penny-lope", and Persephone as "Percy-phone". Both were used regularly (family friend, name of pattern on better set of crockery), and my sister picked up on the incorrect pronunciation without realising it was wrong.
This led to considerable hilarity, not to mention embarassment on her part, when she first met her future sister-in-law, and introduced herself with "Hello Penny-lope, I'm Margaret".


Awre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awre)

I've not been there, but I have seen signposts pointing to it. How the blurry eck am I supposed to pronounce it?
I pronounce it as "oar", more or less, as in rowing. I have been there, but I don't suppose I'll go back now the pub is defunct.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on January 07, 2018, 03:06:04 pm
Back when I was young enough to have a girlfriend, I had a girlfriend who lived in Shrewsbury. She and all her family, who had lived there since the early Pleistocene, pronounced it like the small mammal. Just to add to the confusion, we met in the capital of the Ukraine; which back then was generally known as Kiev, is now Kiyiv and which my wife would probably call Kijów.

Would that rhyme with Lemberg?  ;)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on January 07, 2018, 03:59:06 pm
If you wish to pronounce 'Poughill' correctly, you have first to enquire whether it's the one in Devon, or the one in Cornwall.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: orienteer on January 07, 2018, 04:03:19 pm
Has anyone been to or is from Keighley, W Yorks?

Four cousins were born there, as my uncle was relocated from London with the factory he worked in during WW2.

Three have managed to escape by now. It was always pronounced to match my name - Keith(ly).
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 07, 2018, 04:36:14 pm
Back when I was young enough to have a girlfriend, I had a girlfriend who lived in Shrewsbury. She and all her family, who had lived there since the early Pleistocene, pronounced it like the small mammal. Just to add to the confusion, we met in the capital of the Ukraine; which back then was generally known as Kiev, is now Kiyiv and which my wife would probably call Kijów.

Would that rhyme with Lemberg?  ;)
Or with Leopolis? <where's that Roman emoji?> Call it Stickville!*

*Kij = a stick in Polish. I'm sure this has nothing to do with the actual name. Mind you I'm not really sure what connection there might be between Lvov/Lviv/Lwów/Lemberg and lions.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on January 07, 2018, 05:17:21 pm
If you wish to pronounce 'Poughill' correctly, you have first to enquire whether it's the one in Devon, or the one in Cornwall.

Like Wymondham Leics and Wymondham, Norfolk or Gillingham, Kent or Dorset then...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on January 07, 2018, 06:16:26 pm
If you wish to pronounce 'Poughill' correctly, you have first to enquire whether it's the one in Devon, or the one in Cornwall.

Like Wymondham Leics and Wymondham, Norfolk or Gillingham, Kent or Dorset then...

Though pronunciation is not obvious in either case.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Tim Hall on January 07, 2018, 09:40:17 pm
If you wish to pronounce 'Poughill' correctly, you have first to enquire whether it's the one in Devon, or the one in Cornwall.

Like Wymondham Leics and Wymondham, Norfolk or Gillingham, Kent or Dorset then...

Though pronunciation is not obvious in either case.
"Cavalcade" pronounced success.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pingu on January 07, 2018, 09:53:21 pm
...pronounced it like the small mammal...

How does the small mammal pronounce it?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Wowbagger on January 07, 2018, 10:02:30 pm
I don't think it matters too much whether you pronounce Shrewsbury Shrewsbury or Shroesbury. My brother has lived there for over 40 years and I think (but can't be sure) that he pronounces it as spelt.

Bobb otp may be able to confirm this, but there is a similarly silly pronunciation of Chelmsford that used to do the rounds - Chompsfud. It was quite often used when I went to school there pre-1972 but I have had little reason to go there since other than passing through.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Andrij on January 07, 2018, 10:32:37 pm
Back when I was young enough to have a girlfriend, I had a girlfriend who lived in Shrewsbury. She and all her family, who had lived there since the early Pleistocene, pronounced it like the small mammal. Just to add to the confusion, we met in the capital of the Ukraine; which back then was generally known as Kiev, is now Kiyiv and which my wife would probably call Kijów.

Would that rhyme with Lemberg?  ;)
Or with Leopolis? <where's that Roman emoji?> Call it Stickville!*

bah!  beat me to it.

Quote
*Kij = a stick in Polish. I'm sure this has nothing to do with the actual name. Mind you I'm not really sure what connection there might be between Lvov/Lviv/Lwów/Lemberg and lions.

Kyïv (Київ) is named after Kyj (Кий), one of the founders of the city.

The lion connection of L'viv is this: King Daniel of Galicia, the founder, named it in honour his son Lev - the Ukrainian for Leo.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Steph on January 08, 2018, 02:07:24 am
I will be back in Shrooooosbury in August for the festival. All the locals I meet there are of the insectivore persuasion in re pronunciation.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on January 08, 2018, 08:02:48 am
When I was a kid, my dad used to routinely (and deliberately) mispronounce Penelope as "Penny-lope", and Persephone as "Percy-phone". Both were used regularly (family friend, name of pattern on better set of crockery), and my sister picked up on the incorrect pronunciation without realising it was wrong.
This led to considerable hilarity, not to mention embarassment on her part, when she first met her future sister-in-law, and introduced herself with "Hello Penny-lope, I'm Margaret".

That is almost how the French pronounce it - Penny-lopp. French also has the execrable habit of transliterating the Greek kappa as C and pronouncing it S; and since -es is almost always silent, a name such as Ἀλκιβιάδης comes out as Alsibiad.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 08, 2018, 12:02:41 pm
Back when I was young enough to have a girlfriend, I had a girlfriend who lived in Shrewsbury. She and all her family, who had lived there since the early Pleistocene, pronounced it like the small mammal. Just to add to the confusion, we met in the capital of the Ukraine; which back then was generally known as Kiev, is now Kiyiv and which my wife would probably call Kijów.

Would that rhyme with Lemberg?  ;)
Or with Leopolis? <where's that Roman emoji?> Call it Stickville!*

bah!  beat me to it.

Quote
*Kij = a stick in Polish. I'm sure this has nothing to do with the actual name. Mind you I'm not really sure what connection there might be between Lvov/Lviv/Lwów/Lemberg and lions.

Kyïv (Київ) is named after Kyj (Кий), one of the founders of the city.

The lion connection of L'viv is this: King Daniel of Galicia, the founder, named it in honour his son Lev - the Ukrainian for Leo.
Thanks! I think I did know, or had known, that it was named for the founder's son, but not about King Daniel of Galicia. Perhaps he used the stick in lion taming?  :D :hand:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: fimm on January 08, 2018, 12:52:58 pm
I think I say "gee-ography". Or "Jog-graphy". Depending on which comes out of my mouth at the time.
I can't think of more than one way to say Theatre. Unless you go for some fancy "thay-atre" pronunciation.

On unpronounceable towns, come to Kirkudbright and Milngavie.
My mother says Athelstaneford should be pronounced "Elshenford" but I don't know her authority for that.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on January 08, 2018, 01:06:56 pm
Gee-ography here too, but with a short ee. Do the jography clan also talk about jology, jophysics or (always need three instances) jodes?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on January 08, 2018, 01:25:18 pm
Do the jography clan also talk about jology, jophysics or (always need three instances) jodes?

No, of course not.  They're pronounced differently, because they're different words.  Just because they have the spelling and meaning in common doesn't mean that we can't needlessly muddle things up for the befuddlement of FOREIGNS, colonials or anyone who expects language to make sense.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on January 08, 2018, 02:31:29 pm
I mostly say jeeography but have said jography when rushed or sloppy.

Geological words like geode or geophysics ar always jeeo...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on January 08, 2018, 05:19:48 pm
The 'o' sound is different in geophysics and geology*, so I see no reason why it can't be different again in geography. If you're taking the view that the pronunciation of geography should follow other geo- compounds, it would be more like 'gee-oh-GRAPHy' rather than 'gee-OGG-raphy'.

Also: a nomination for POTD for Kim.




*cue for classics pedant to say it isn't.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: mattc on January 09, 2018, 08:17:37 pm
The 'o' sound is different in geophysics and geology*, so I see no reason why it can't be different again in geography. If you're taking the view that the pronunciation of geography should follow other geo- compounds, it would be more like 'gee-oh-GRAPHy' rather than 'gee-OGG-raphy'.

I think the bold version would be an excellent way to wind up pronunciation pedants. I shall try it out ..
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on January 10, 2018, 09:25:44 am
The 'o' sound is different in geophysics and geology*, so I see no reason why it can't be different again in geography. If you're taking the view that the pronunciation of geography should follow other geo- compounds, it would be more like 'gee-oh-GRAPHy' rather than 'gee-OGG-raphy'.

Also: a nomination for POTD for Kim.




*cue for classics pedant to say it isn't.

The sound isn't different, the emphasis is. That's no reason to totally elide the ee sound, though.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on January 10, 2018, 10:32:34 am
This is not a hill I'm prepared to die on but what the heck...

The 'o' sound is different in geophysics and geology*, so I see no reason why it can't be different again in geography. If you're taking the view that the pronunciation of geography should follow other geo- compounds, it would be more like 'gee-oh-GRAPHy' rather than 'gee-OGG-raphy'.

The sound isn't different, the emphasis is. That's no reason to totally elide the ee sound, though.

geophysics: dʒiːoʊfɪzɪks - https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/geophysics
geology: dʒiɒlədʒi - https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/geology

The first O sound is clearly different in those two words, as you can see from the phonetic transcription.

geography: dʒiɒgrəfi - has the same phonetic transcription as geology for the geo part, but if you listen to the audio clip on the Collins website, the first syllable is somewhat clipped - not totally elided, but definitely shorter than in geology.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/geography

It's the overlong pronunciation of the first E in geography and theatre, that I was getting at when I brought this up (William G Stewart, when he was quizmaster on 15 to 1, was a prime culprit for this).

If you're arguing for consistent pronunciation, the graph part of geography should sound different too - grɑːf (for southerners) or græf (for northerners).
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on January 10, 2018, 10:50:50 am
Aye well, the woman in their video was pronouncing geography differently from the bloke under their wee red symbol beside the phonetics. But yes, the O is different in Collins examples, but not when I pronounce them, which is of course the correct way. ;)

BTW, Chambers gives:

geology: ʤɪˈɒləʤi
geography:ʤɪˈɒgrəfi

And so do this bunch: https://tophonetics.com/

Go ˈfɪgə.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on January 10, 2018, 11:13:21 am
Chambers is Scottish. Nuff said.  ;)

I didn't watch the video, only listened to the audio clip. Interesting.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on January 10, 2018, 01:01:38 pm
Surprise, surprise:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Collins,_Sons

Murdoch-owned these days.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on January 10, 2018, 01:16:15 pm
Ha! I didn't know that (neither the Scottish origins nor the Murdoch ownership - I didn't realise Harper was American either).

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: pcolbeck on February 15, 2018, 06:06:36 pm
Vase - it's vars not vaze. I know they use vaze in the US but the guy on the program about Ikea last night was middle class English.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hubner on February 15, 2018, 07:27:41 pm
The Oxford English Dictionary gives both JOGraphy and jeOGraphy:

/dʒɪˈɒɡrəfi/, /ˈdʒɒɡrəfi/.

Both are "correct".

The same goes for "geometry":

/dʒɪˈɒmᵻtri/, /ˈdʒɒmᵻtri/

Note the different stress between each pair.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Steph on March 04, 2018, 09:50:10 pm
Watching C5's 'WWI In Colour'

No, you flangebracket, it is either Eeper, or Eeprrrrrrr. It is NOT Ippress.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on March 05, 2018, 12:01:24 am
or Wipers...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: nicknack on March 05, 2018, 09:51:12 am
or Wipers...
The Ypres Arms in Sittingbourne is usually Wipers.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on March 05, 2018, 10:05:40 am
Same goes for the Ypres Castle in Rye.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: clarion on March 05, 2018, 10:22:26 am
or Wipers...
In hte context of WWI, it can be 'Wipers'.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Torslanda on March 05, 2018, 10:31:43 am
Just as Auchonvillers nr. Beaumont-Hamel was colloquially known as 'Ocean Villas'. Typical Tommy humour.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on March 05, 2018, 10:32:16 am
or Wipers...
In hte context of WWI, it can be 'Wipers'.

+1; sanctified by usage and sacrifice. Ditto for US "Bastone".  But only from people who were there.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on March 05, 2018, 10:34:39 am
"Torte" pronounced "taut".
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on March 05, 2018, 01:41:50 pm
"Le Cateau", obv, is pronounced "Leaky Too".  Or possibly "Two".
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on April 25, 2018, 10:31:32 am
There's a trailer that's getting repeated a lot on 6music at the moment in which Miranda Sawyer pronounces biopic as 'bi-opic' rather than 'bio-pic', with the emphasis on 'op'. Makes me shout at the radio every time.

Stuart Maconie picked up on it yesterday as well.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on April 25, 2018, 11:31:44 am
Shallot pronounced SHALLet. US, natch.

Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Andrij on April 25, 2018, 11:36:12 am
Shallot pronounced SHALLet. US, natch.

Growing up in the US (and left in my late 20s), I never hears anyone say 'SHALLet'.  It may be regional, or perhaps just one person's ignorance.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on April 25, 2018, 11:59:57 am
There's a trailer that's getting repeated a lot on 6music at the moment in which Miranda Sawyer pronounces biopic as 'bi-opic' rather than 'bio-pic', with the emphasis on 'op'. Makes me shout at the radio every time.

Stuart Maconie picked up on it yesterday as well.
I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "bio-pic". But then it's not a word I encounter much.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on April 25, 2018, 01:47:41 pm
Shallot pronounced SHALLet. US, natch.

Growing up in the US (and left in my late 20s), I never hears anyone say 'SHALLet'.  It may be regional, or perhaps just one person's ignorance.

Two, then, one of them being Julia Child, t'other being Danny de Vito. JC spoke fluent French (échalote), too.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Andrij on April 25, 2018, 01:56:52 pm
 ::-)

I leave the country for a few decades and the whole place falls to pieces.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on April 25, 2018, 03:00:34 pm
Veering off-topic, but hardly worth starting a new thread...

Pronunciation that makes me cringe slightly less:  "Kim Vaul"
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on April 25, 2018, 03:47:38 pm
I say bi-OP-ic. And shall-OT.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Tim Hall on April 25, 2018, 10:07:13 pm
There's a trailer that's getting repeated a lot on 6music at the moment in which Miranda Sawyer pronounces biopic as 'bi-opic' rather than 'bio-pic', with the emphasis on 'op'. Makes me shout at the radio every time.

Stuart Maconie picked up on it yesterday as well.
Phew. Not just me then.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: pcolbeck on April 26, 2018, 10:37:20 am
There's a trailer that's getting repeated a lot on 6music at the moment in which Miranda Sawyer pronounces biopic as 'bi-opic' rather than 'bio-pic', with the emphasis on 'op'. Makes me shout at the radio every time.

Stuart Maconie picked up on it yesterday as well.
I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "bio-pic". But then it's not a word I encounter much.

I'd always say  bio-pic, bi-opic means having two opics whatever opics are.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on April 26, 2018, 10:56:12 am
I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "bio-pic". But then it's not a word I encounter much.

Nor do I generally, but 6music is my background noise during the day and they've been playing the trailer at least once an hour for the past week, so it begins to be conspicuous.

Fortunately, that episode has been on now so they've started playing the trailer for the next episode instead, which doesn't feature any especially annoying pronunciations, just the usual self-congratulatory smugness of 6music presenters (I'm well and truly bored of these idiots telling me how 'eclectic' they are).
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on April 26, 2018, 11:03:15 am
Apparently this genuinely is a US v UK difference:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/biopic
As movies are a US-dominated industry, it makes sense that the US pronunciation would become dominant. Though bio-pic makes more sense.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on April 26, 2018, 01:24:15 pm
The cover blurb on my copy of Iain Banks' "Espedair Street" describes it as a "rock biopic", and thus was clearly written by an idiot.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on April 26, 2018, 01:43:02 pm
I'm sticking with bi-OP-ic. It gives the word a spritely bunnyish appeal. I think we should put the emphasis on more middle syllables. They're forced to linger there, journeymen stressfully bookended by other more emphatically delivered syllables. I say give them life! Give them omph! This is my manifesto for the neglected syllables.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Torslanda on April 26, 2018, 02:08:21 pm
AIUI the word is a contraction of 'biographical picture'. Therefore it should be pronounced 'bio - pic' and hyphenated when written.

Can of worms anyone . . . ?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on April 26, 2018, 02:35:59 pm
No relation of 84 Charlie.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on April 30, 2018, 02:03:49 pm
I listened to the latest Kermode and Mayo film podcast yesterday, in which they covered the thorny bio-pic question (presumably inspired by the same 6music trailer, though all the news and trailers are cut out of the podcast version of the show).

They agreed with me on the pronunciation, as did their guest Eddie Marsan.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Basil on May 15, 2018, 09:16:54 pm
Son.  It is pronounced 'samosa'.  Not bloody 'samoza''. 
Someone brought brought up in Birmingham has no excuse.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Tim Hall on May 15, 2018, 10:18:22 pm
Son.  It is pronounced 'samosa'.  Not bloody 'samoza''. 
Someone brought brought up in Birmingham has no excuse.
Wasn't he El Pres of Nicaragua? (Samoza, not your son, obvs.)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: CAMRAMan on May 20, 2018, 02:24:22 pm
I think we should put the emphasis on more middle syllables. They're forced to linger there, journeymen stressfully bookended by other more emphatically delivered syllables. I say give them life! Give them omph! This is my manifesto for the neglected syllables.
Don't ever travel to Hungary or Finland...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on May 20, 2018, 02:55:00 pm
Or Slovakia. Though you might enjoy Poland.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Legs on July 17, 2018, 09:17:19 am
David Millar's pronunciation of 'travails' on last night's TdF rest day program.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ben T on July 17, 2018, 02:30:56 pm
Chris Evans on radio 2 completely omits a syllable from certain words, e.g. 'balloon', which he says as 'bloon'.  ;D ;D  :facepalm: :facepalm:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on July 17, 2018, 03:19:45 pm
French commentators leave out half of "Kwiatkowski" - something like "Katofski".

We used to have an underboss called Kwiatkowski: we called him Kiwi.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Andrij on July 17, 2018, 09:45:45 pm
French commentators leave out half of "Kwiatkowski" - something like "Katofski".

We used to have an underboss called Kwiatkowski: we called him Kiwi.

That surname is three syllables - Kwiat-kow-ski - not, as British commentators tend to say Kwi-at-kow-ski.  And pronounce the 'w' as 'v'.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on July 28, 2018, 01:18:01 pm
French commentators leave out half of "Kwiatkowski" - something like "Katofski".

We used to have an underboss called Kwiatkowski: we called him Kiwi.

That surname is three syllables - Kwiat-kow-ski - not, as British commentators tend to say Kwi-at-kow-ski.  And pronounce the 'w' as 'v'.


The Germans made four of it as well, but Kiwi was German and did it too.

Then there's Castroviejo, that the French commentators pronounce Castroviero because French, like English, doesn't have a voiceless velar fricative and usually substitutes an R instead.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Torslanda on July 28, 2018, 07:01:15 pm
That's easy for you to say.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on August 26, 2018, 04:09:42 pm
When I was a kid there was often an ad in the paper that said "Say Noilly Prat and your French is perfect".

Imagine being in the pub: "Can I have an oily prat, please?"
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pingu on September 05, 2018, 11:07:48 am
New-car-sul
Glars-go


I bet most southerners cringe when they pronounce Glastonbury. ;D
I hope you won't mind if I stick with
"Paris"
Instead of "Par-ee"

(At least while I'm in the UK)
:-P

Us trying to explain to our French hosts that we were going to Rheims  :facepalm:

Mrs P's pronunciation was approved on this year's visit  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on September 05, 2018, 11:50:36 am
De Sisti's comment about Glastonbury is puzzling.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ham on September 12, 2018, 09:11:57 pm
New-car-sul
Glars-go


I bet most southerners cringe when they pronounce Glastonbury. ;D
I hope you won't mind if I stick with
"Paris"
Instead of "Par-ee"

(At least while I'm in the UK)
:-P

Us trying to explain to our French hosts that we were going to Rheims  :facepalm:

Mrs P's pronunciation was approved on this year's visit  :thumbsup:

Are you certain she was't just clearing her throat in preparation for an attempt at Rheims?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pedaldog on September 13, 2018, 12:24:02 am
In a Buk!  "I would of had to go too the office again... "
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on September 13, 2018, 07:22:08 am
New-car-sul
Glars-go


I bet most southerners cringe when they pronounce Glastonbury. ;D
I hope you won't mind if I stick with
"Paris"
Instead of "Par-ee"

(At least while I'm in the UK)
:-P

Us trying to explain to our French hosts that we were going to Rheims  :facepalm:

Mrs P's pronunciation was approved on this year's visit  :thumbsup:

Are you certain she was't just clearing her throat in preparation for an attempt at Rheims?

Just say rancid without the id.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Basil on December 10, 2018, 10:57:28 pm
Slightly amused that Ritula Shah seems to refer to the 'gilets jeunes'. 

If she means gilet jaunes, then this is the correct thread.
If she means jeunes gilets, then this should be in the grammar thread.

Ok. I'll get my dressing gown.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on December 11, 2018, 08:14:42 am
IIRC one of Lawrence Durrell's characters referred to eastern ladies of doubtful reputation as jaunes filles.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on March 05, 2019, 07:19:51 pm
I'm spending too long listening to Classic fm.

I wish Bach was not pronounced by some to rhyme with 'Lark'.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Basil on March 05, 2019, 07:28:53 pm
Woof woof.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Paul on March 05, 2019, 08:02:23 pm
Placate with a soft c. Not cringe, just curious.
Anyone else come across this?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on March 05, 2019, 08:57:00 pm
Was the perpetrator Russian?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Paul on March 05, 2019, 10:11:34 pm
He was moving quickly now you mention it.

Sorry.

No, very English. I wondered if he’d learned it from reading it rather than hearing it . He seemed genuinely surprised when I told him it was a hard c, so much so that I thought I’d check here.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: FifeingEejit on March 05, 2019, 10:57:03 pm
Then there's Castroviejo, that the French commentators pronounce Castroviero because French, like English, doesn't have a voiceless velar fricative and usually substitutes an R instead.

I just looked that up, is Standard English the only Germanic derived language not to have it?

I'm spending too long listening to Classic fm.

I wish Bach was not pronounced by some to rhyme with 'Lark'.

I'm sure I've heard it pronounced correctly in the mornings.


A bigger challenge would be to expect Van Gogh to be pronounced correctly...


or maybe even just Mallaig...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on March 06, 2019, 12:29:31 am
They aren't ALL guilty.
Presenters' proficiency with foreign tongues is very variable.
Some are cringeworthy, others are rather good.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on March 06, 2019, 07:55:50 am
Hum. Someone from the Beeb's pronunciation unit once said in an interview that if newsreaders had pronounced Khrushchev properly nobody would have recognized it.

I watched a 90s documentary about submarines the other day. The 1990s Americans all said SUBmaREENers and the Brits subMARiners; however, the Americans in a 1950s clip they included said subMARiners.

I wonder if somebody important mispronounced submariner and nobody dared correct him, so the new version stuck.  I once read that the Thames rhymed with flames until George I got hold of it.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on March 07, 2019, 06:04:02 pm
Hum. Someone from the Beeb's pronunciation unit once said in an interview that if newsreaders had pronounced Khrushchev properly nobody would have recognized it.

Murray Walker offered the same excuse when picked up on his pronunciation of Ayrton Senna by the man himself - ie it's not that he didn't know the correct pronunciation, just that the viewing audience would have balked at it.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: FifeingEejit on March 07, 2019, 10:53:55 pm
They aren't ALL guilty.
Presenters' proficiency with foreign tongues is very variable.
Some are cringeworthy, others are rather good.
I saw the billboard poster for them today, Bach to Bach, it might work in England, but in Scotland where its more common to pronounce a /x/ in when it should be a /k/...

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pingu on March 07, 2019, 11:00:36 pm
It's time to go Bach to basics.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: FifeingEejit on March 07, 2019, 11:01:37 pm
Hum. Someone from the Beeb's pronunciation unit once said in an interview that if newsreaders had pronounced Khrushchev properly nobody would have recognized it.

Murray Walker offered the same excuse when picked up on his pronunciation of Ayrton Senna by the man himself - ie it's not that he didn't know the correct pronunciation, just that the viewing audience would have balked at it.
I remember the variability in commentary from muddly on that front, the story I read was that Ayrton asked him why he'd changed from saying it right to saying it wrong.

Correct pronunciation is Aye-aeton iirc




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Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: FifeingEejit on March 07, 2019, 11:05:59 pm
It's time to go Bach to basics.
I think my campaign to dispose SSE adoptions of Scots words of the imposter z is doomed to failure, it took me ages to find the yough in character map.

And I've still not found out how Shetland swapped a yough (Hjatland to Zetland*) for a sh.

*im on my phone there's no yough symbol at all...

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on March 07, 2019, 11:20:25 pm
It's time to go Bach to basics.
I think my campaign to dispose SSE adoptions of Scots words of the imposter z is doomed to failure, it took me ages to find the yough in character map.

And I've still not found out how Shetland swapped a yough (Hjatland to Zetland*) for a sh.

*im on my phone there's no yough symbol at all...

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk

Maybe it evolved via/like the Swedish 'sj'
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: FifeingEejit on March 07, 2019, 11:39:19 pm
It's time to go Bach to basics.
I think my campaign to dispose SSE adoptions of Scots words of the imposter z is doomed to failure, it took me ages to find the yough in character map.

And I've still not found out how Shetland swapped a yough (Hjatland to Zetland*) for a sh.

*im on my phone there's no yough symbol at all...

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk

Maybe it evolved via/like the Swedish 'sj'
Hm, seems Zetland was named Zetland in 1931 as the common corruption of yetland,  (where I've substituted a y for a yough) but for the 1970s reorganisation everything else was Sh, but that's all I've found.

Can't think of any examples where the yough corruption has gone to anything other than a zed or a stop,
Stop: Menzies,
Zed: lenzie, Edzell, macenzie

The yough should be  like in Göteborg

Sh is a common corruption of Th in East central Scotland, e.G.  Fifers count wan, too, shree

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Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on March 07, 2019, 11:48:39 pm
There is a Zetland Road in Bristol. I think it was built around 1900, maybe a bit earlier. Pronounced as spelled. That is all I have to say for now.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on March 08, 2019, 01:28:23 pm
It's time to go Bach to basics.

Taxi for Pingu!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on March 08, 2019, 04:17:45 pm
There's a Zetland Road besides Doncaster Royal Infirmary.

I worked in Shetland 30 years ago and can't remember anyone pronouncing 'Shetland' differently. I liked the dialect.

ZE postcodes were memorable.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pickled Onion on April 05, 2019, 06:13:14 pm
so this morning Nick Robinson on the Today prog was reading something out about the bow of a boat. The bow, rhyming with toe!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on April 05, 2019, 07:48:53 pm
Correct pronunciation for a bow tie or part of an archer's weapon; they'll expect to pronounce a deferential lowering of the head that way soon...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: mattc on April 18, 2019, 12:38:51 pm
People who put a "y" into "Cool"- mainly weather presenters.

"Kyool" is how I'd probably spell their version of it.

"getting Kyooler toward the weekend" etc ...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on April 24, 2019, 04:13:08 pm
Jacinda Ardern pronouncing the name of our beloved Prez as if he were from Norn Iron: Emmanyuel McRon. But the NZ eccint is weird anyway.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on April 24, 2019, 04:57:17 pm
Lifetime beetroot consumption will do that.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on April 25, 2019, 10:22:57 am
https://www.change.org/p/new-zealand-government-name-beetroot-new-zealand-s-official-national-vegetable

41 signatures!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pingu on May 06, 2019, 11:18:43 am
Sivin pingwins ix  :)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on May 27, 2019, 05:12:12 pm
What if English pronunciation were phonetically consistent?

https://youtu.be/A8zWWp0akUU
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on May 27, 2019, 05:19:17 pm
Yesterday, at a mid-ride cafe, I overheard someone talking about Waitrose Duchy Organics range, with the second word pronounced "doochy". And a couple of days ago someone was having a loud phone conversation with a taxi driver who seemed to be refusing to come and pick them up from Pedro's Bridge – not unreasonably, because there is no such place (it's actually Pero's Bridge and once that had been cleared up, it's still not a reasonable taxi pick up spot because it's a footbridge with no vehicular access at either end) – so they settled on "Broad Kway". And why on earth is that word spelled with a Q?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on May 27, 2019, 11:22:12 pm
French origin I think.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on May 28, 2019, 08:48:53 am
Yup, it's quai in French but apparently (Chambers) that was originally kay. The Académie Française seems to have taken a scunner against the letter K in the 17th century, with the wonderful result that in many classical names they transliterate kappa as a C and pronounce it S, e.g in Alcibiades.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on May 28, 2019, 11:32:18 am
Hence Florida Keys. Maybe, I'm just guessing.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on May 28, 2019, 12:50:54 pm
They have Keys and Cays in that part of the world.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on May 28, 2019, 02:39:11 pm
Keys of coke are what I heard
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hubner on June 01, 2019, 10:26:18 am
There was a BBC4 programme on the other day about Neanderthals. There were loads of academics and scientists in the programme and they all said "Neandertal" ie no "TH" sound and which how I've always heard it said, but the presenter kept on saying it as NeanderTHal!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on June 01, 2019, 12:03:34 pm
The presenter is some kind of NeanderAustralopithecus.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on June 01, 2019, 12:15:55 pm
There was a BBC4 programme on the other day about Neanderthals. There were loads of academics and scientists in the programme and they all said "Neandertal" ie no "TH" sound and which how I've always heard it said, but the presenter kept on saying it as NeanderTHal!

It probably helps if you know that thal is German for valley. There are a lot of words like that where the obvious etymology informs the pronunciation.

Although you do have to be wary of being caught out - the obvious etymology isn't always the correct etymology...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: spesh on June 01, 2019, 12:20:51 pm
The presenter is some kind of NeanderAustralopithecus.

That's easy for you to say.   ;D
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on June 01, 2019, 01:21:54 pm
There was a BBC4 programme on the other day about Neanderthals. There were loads of academics and scientists in the programme and they all said "Neandertal" ie no "TH" sound and which how I've always heard it said, but the presenter kept on saying it as NeanderTHal!

I had a teacher who pronounced this as Nee-an- DER- thul man.

It was only some years later my Mum (whose first language was German) used authentic German pronunciation.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on June 01, 2019, 01:45:04 pm
Wondering where the H came from anyway, in a language with supposedly no unvoiced letters, I looked it up.  The valley is called the Neandertal in German these days, but (laut Wiki.de) in the 19th century it was the Neanderthal, which is when English would have assimilated it.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 01, 2019, 01:50:06 pm
The word Tal is also the origin of the word dollar.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Jakob W on June 01, 2019, 03:15:21 pm
19th-c. German seems to have had more unvoiced Hs, e.g. _Die Forelle_ has »Ein Fischer mit der Ruthe wohl an dem Ufer stand«, whereas the modern spelling would be 'Rute'.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Auntie Helen on June 02, 2019, 06:36:21 am
And of course Martin Luther is ‘Luter’ here. They all look at me strangely if I say ‘Luther’ with the soft th
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on June 02, 2019, 02:29:41 pm
My mother was named Ruth by her German parents.
She's used the soft 'th' since she arrived here in 1956 when in GB but not when in FOREIGN climes.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on June 02, 2019, 03:25:26 pm
Come to that, why does English turn the letter U into a diphthong in so many words?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on June 02, 2019, 06:14:08 pm
Dunno; ask the Russians!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Andrij on June 02, 2019, 08:11:38 pm
Dunno; ask the Russians!

 ???
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on June 02, 2019, 09:51:48 pm
Is it only British people who amuse themselves by trying to pronounce foreign words authentically (which generally failing, unless they're posh, in which case they do it on purpose in the hope of making the rest of us seem foolish)?

Certainly, the French and Italians don't seem to bother. I think we should follow their lead. Chorizo in my house is chor-eez-o and it's fucking staying that way.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on June 02, 2019, 10:24:48 pm
My mother was named Ruth by her German parents.
She's used the soft 'th' since she arrived here in 1956 when in GB but not when in FOREIGN climes.

My friend’s German partner is called Judith, which he pronounces in a very English way. I haven’t asked her how she feels about it.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on June 03, 2019, 12:21:43 am
Being in a Jewish primary school, we often usedHebrew names. My classmate Yudit was never known as Judith...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on June 03, 2019, 06:58:01 am
Is it only British people who amuse themselves by trying to pronounce foreign words authentically (which generally failing, unless they're posh, in which case they do it on purpose in the hope of making the rest of us seem foolish)?

Certainly, the French and Italians don't seem to bother. I think we should follow their lead. Chorizo in my house is chor-eez-o and it's fucking staying that way.

I would have expected chor-aye-zo, but never mind.

I have a Scots-Polish chum who was born in France and first went to Poland in his mid-twenties.  Before he went, Warsaw was Warsaw to both of us. After he came back I mentioned Warsaw and he bellowed "Varshava!" at me.  But then, he's been a Tory all his life.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pickled Onion on June 03, 2019, 08:12:11 am
It's an odd thing - at what point do we cross over from the Anglicised pronunciation to the local one? Anyone who pronounces Paris as parEE is either French or being facetious. There's a BBC correspondent covering the missing Himalayan climbers who pronounces it Him-AH-laya. We have no problem putting the right stress on Málaga, but not on Córdoba. As for Sevilla, it seems the place is Seville but the kickball team is Sevilla (pronounced mostly as severe).
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on June 03, 2019, 08:50:56 am
Curious.  When I'm speaking English I pronounce the S in Paris but pronounce Marseille as the French do. Mar-sails sounds daft/ignorant.

Re the BBC bloke, an Indian chap I used to know years ago pronounced it Him-al-AH-ya. I used that pronunciation exactly once and my geography master bit my head off.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Salvatore on June 03, 2019, 08:56:18 am
And then there's AC Milan, an Italian football club which for historical reasons uses the English name of the city. Do you use the English pronunciation of the English name, or the Italian "Meeelan" (as the locals do)?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on June 03, 2019, 09:55:49 am
This pronunciation thing does seem to be a class signifier. Upper class uberposhos will deliberately mispronounce, middlers and aspirationals will bump for what they believe is authenticity and a make a big fuss of doing so and reminding others that they're doing it wrong. Those the at the bottom don't care, they're on their fifteenth pint of San Miguel in Ma-lager.

If we're speaking English then, as far I care, we should use the anglicized pronunciation rather than mangling foreign pronunciation with comedy lisps and the like. Quite often it just sounds affected. That said, I was in a shop the other day and someone was asking for jalapeños with a j. Honestly, I was almost ready to correct him my best mildly racist comedy Speedy Gonzales accent.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 03, 2019, 10:42:30 am
Is it only British people who amuse themselves by trying to pronounce foreign words authentically (which generally failing, unless they're posh, in which case they do it on purpose in the hope of making the rest of us seem foolish)?

Certainly, the French and Italians don't seem to bother. I think we should follow their lead. Chorizo in my house is chor-eez-o and it's fucking staying that way.

I would have expected chor-aye-zo, but never mind.

I have a Scots-Polish chum who was born in France and first went to Poland in his mid-twenties.  Before he went, Warsaw was Warsaw to both of us. After he came back I mentioned Warsaw and he bellowed "Varshava!" at me.  But then, he's been a Tory all his life.
I've tried pronouncing London the English way in Polish sentences. It's virtually impossible. Polish has fairly rigid stress patterns and initial stress just doesn't work, it unbalances the whole sentence. Saying "Varshava" in an English sentence is easy but as it's an important enough place to have a standardised English name, it's silly not to use that in English. But there is a mid-ground of names which are reasonably familiar to English ears but not so much as to have a standard English version, and often the Polish pronunciation is sufficiently different as to be a different word. Lodz/Łódż is a case in point. I remember one Polish friend used to compromise on "Worsoff" for Warsaw in English, which sounds like a Pole mangling an English name.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on June 03, 2019, 10:52:20 am
Then there's paella.  Even after I'd heard Spaniards say it I couldn't quite believe it shouldn't end in ella.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on June 03, 2019, 11:02:59 am
As for Sevilla, it seems the place is Seville but the kickball team is Sevilla (pronounced mostly as severe).

And then there's AC Milan, an Italian football club which for historical reasons uses the English name of the city. Do you use the English pronunciation of the English name, or the Italian "Meeelan" (as the locals do)?

Football club names are an odd case. Napoli play in Naples. Fiorentina play in Florence. Slavia Prague play in Praha. Steaua Bucharest play in Bucuresti.

And Bayern Munich play in München, which is in Bavaria.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on June 03, 2019, 11:05:20 am
If we're speaking English then, as far I care, we should use the anglicized pronunciation rather than mangling foreign pronunciation with comedy lisps and the like. Quite often it just sounds affected.

What really grates is people affecting the Castilian lisp for chorizo but starting it with a hard English 'tch'
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 03, 2019, 11:36:30 am
As for Sevilla, it seems the place is Seville but the kickball team is Sevilla (pronounced mostly as severe).

And then there's AC Milan, an Italian football club which for historical reasons uses the English name of the city. Do you use the English pronunciation of the English name, or the Italian "Meeelan" (as the locals do)?

Football club names are an odd case. Napoli play in Naples. Fiorentina play in Florence. Slavia Prague play in Praha. Steaua Bucharest play in Bucuresti.

And Bayern Munich play in München, which is in Bavaria.
If you're trying to be totally authentic, there's the added problem of clubs with numbers in their names. And the initials. "eff see schalke oh four" or "eff tsay schalke zero vier"? Or something else? (The answer of course is not to talk about German football!)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: The French Tandem on June 03, 2019, 11:45:04 am
Is it only British people who amuse themselves by trying to pronounce foreign words authentically (which generally failing, unless they're posh, in which case they do it on purpose in the hope of making the rest of us seem foolish)?

Certainly, the French and Italians don't seem to bother. I think we should follow their lead. Chorizo in my house is chor-eez-o and it's fucking staying that way.

I would have expected chor-aye-zo, but never mind.

I have a Scots-Polish chum who was born in France and first went to Poland in his mid-twenties.  Before he went, Warsaw was Warsaw to both of us. After he came back I mentioned Warsaw and he bellowed "Varshava!" at me.  But then, he's been a Tory all his life.

It's not that the French just don't bother. They actually take great pride in completely distorting foreign names. London becomes "Londres", and Warsaw becomes "Varsovie".
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 03, 2019, 11:46:47 am
I'd say "Varsovie" is actually closer to the Polish than "Warsaw" is.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Guy on June 03, 2019, 12:46:22 pm
For us ( ;)) pignorant John Bulls "Warsaw" is a lot easier to say.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pickled Onion on June 03, 2019, 01:20:57 pm
If we're speaking English then, as far I care, we should use the anglicized pronunciation rather than mangling foreign pronunciation with comedy lisps and the like. Quite often it just sounds affected.

What really grates is people affecting the Castilian lisp for chorizo but starting it with a hard English 'tch'

 ??? what should it be? Sh- or K- ?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on June 03, 2019, 01:23:27 pm
Is it only British people who amuse themselves by trying to pronounce foreign words authentically (which generally failing, unless they're posh, in which case they do it on purpose in the hope of making the rest of us seem foolish)?

Certainly, the French and Italians don't seem to bother. I think we should follow their lead. Chorizo in my house is chor-eez-o and it's fucking staying that way.

I would have expected chor-aye-zo, but never mind.

I have a Scots-Polish chum who was born in France and first went to Poland in his mid-twenties.  Before he went, Warsaw was Warsaw to both of us. After he came back I mentioned Warsaw and he bellowed "Varshava!" at me.  But then, he's been a Tory all his life.

It's not that the French just don't bother. They actually take great pride in completely distorting foreign names. London becomes "Londres", and Warsaw becomes "Varsovie".

Apparently this is due to the English swallowing the end of the word, leaving others to make up their own. The written words came later, with Londres even pre-dates London.  The S, though, is admitted to be spurious.

http://andresordes.e-monsite.com/pages/london-et-pourquoi-londres.html
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Paul on June 03, 2019, 01:27:11 pm
If we're speaking English then, as far I care, we should use the anglicized pronunciation rather than mangling foreign pronunciation with comedy lisps and the like. Quite often it just sounds affected.

What really grates is people affecting the Castilian lisp for chorizo but starting it with a hard English 'tch'
I say it like this. But that’s how I learned it. To say it otherwise would be an affectation on my part.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on June 03, 2019, 01:29:17 pm
If we're speaking English then, as far I care, we should use the anglicized pronunciation rather than mangling foreign pronunciation with comedy lisps and the like. Quite often it just sounds affected.

What really grates is people affecting the Castilian lisp for chorizo but starting it with a hard English 'tch'

 ??? what should it be? Sh- or K- ?

https://youtu.be/yNM8rN7vf2w

(closer to 'sh' than 'tch', I'd say)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on June 03, 2019, 01:34:54 pm
This pronunciation thing does seem to be a class signifier. Upper class uberposhos will deliberately mispronounce, middlers and aspirationals will bump for what they believe is authenticity and a make a big fuss of doing so and reminding others that they're doing it wrong. Those the at the bottom don't care, they're on their fifteenth pint of San Miguel in Ma-lager.

I don't think that's strictly true, given the amount of abuse that you can get for speaking too posh in certain contexts.  Northerners will do it to anyone speaking RP, of course, but southerners will latch onto authentic pronunciation of foreign words as a poshness signifier (unless you can plead some sort of foreignness).
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on June 03, 2019, 01:42:41 pm
I confess that I've never heard anyone British pronounce chorizo that way. It always comes out as a comedy (I use the word advisedly) Allo Allo accent. Once in Bingley our waitress did a rather splendid chor-IT-toh! which was delivered with such verve that I feared she was about to fight a bull or commence the flamenco mid-order. I can't really capture it though, because it was also in broad Yorkshirese. She didn't, unfortunately, start dancing and singing and the only bovine was plated.

Come to think of it, I'd like to hear Italians Talk Cockney, the first of my podcasts in Making Foreigns Talk Proper series.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on June 03, 2019, 01:52:25 pm
This pronunciation thing does seem to be a class signifier. Upper class uberposhos will deliberately mispronounce, middlers and aspirationals will bump for what they believe is authenticity and a make a big fuss of doing so and reminding others that they're doing it wrong. Those the at the bottom don't care, they're on their fifteenth pint of San Miguel in Ma-lager.

I don't think that's strictly true, given the amount of abuse that you can get for speaking too posh in certain contexts.  Northerners will do it to anyone speaking RP, of course, but southerners will latch onto authentic pronunciation of foreign words as a poshness signifier (unless you can plead some sort of foreignness).

Reverse posh is as bad as forward posh, you're still socially weaponising pronunciation. Probably I have a chip on my shoulder because I grew up down a coal mine speaking a near impenetrable dialect of English and learned all my words out of books, so really I could only manage a stab at phonetic pronunciation. Added to the fact I can't talk proper anyway and have a bit of a weird speech thing where I just can't pronounce some words as my brain insists on breaking them into linear phonetic units (for instance, Appalachian, episcopal, pheromone) so by the time I've sussed out the actual pronunciation they're all out of my mouth.

Which means a lifetime of being corrected which isn't at all annoying.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 03, 2019, 01:58:36 pm
And then there's AC Milan, an Italian football club which for historical reasons uses the English name of the city. Do you use the English pronunciation of the English name, or the Italian "Meeelan" (as the locals do)?
I didn't know that Milan was the actual name. I'd always wondered why Polish football commentators talked about Inter Mediolan, that being the Polish name of the city, but AC Milan, neither Polish nor Italian. (They pronounce Milan as if it were a Polish word – short i but more like a short "ee" than an English "i" – but then they would do, because they are even if it is not.)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pickled Onion on June 03, 2019, 02:00:57 pm
If we're speaking English then, as far I care, we should use the anglicized pronunciation rather than mangling foreign pronunciation with comedy lisps and the like. Quite often it just sounds affected.

What really grates is people affecting the Castilian lisp for chorizo but starting it with a hard English 'tch'

 ??? what should it be? Sh- or K- ?

https://youtu.be/yNM8rN7vf2w

(closer to 'sh' than 'tch', I'd say)

Something wrong with my ears.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Tim Hall on June 03, 2019, 02:02:06 pm
Added to the fact I can't talk proper anyway and have a bit of a weird speech thing where I just can't pronounce some words as my brain insists on breaking them into linear phonetic units (for instance, Appalachian, episcopal, pheromone) so by the time I've sussed out the actual pronunciation they're all out of my mouth.
Wasn't "Appalachian" the second album by Episcopal Pheromone? It was rubbish.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on June 03, 2019, 02:55:35 pm
If we're speaking English then, as far I care, we should use the anglicized pronunciation rather than mangling foreign pronunciation with comedy lisps and the like. Quite often it just sounds affected.

What really grates is people affecting the Castilian lisp for chorizo but starting it with a hard English 'tch'

 ??? what should it be? Sh- or K- ?

https://youtu.be/yNM8rN7vf2w

(closer to 'sh' than 'tch', I'd say)

Try this: https://forvo.com/word/chorizo/#es
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on June 03, 2019, 03:58:34 pm
Something wrong with my ears.

When you hear it being pronounced the way I mean, the difference is quite obvious.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Salvatore on June 03, 2019, 04:10:30 pm
Football club names are an odd case. Napoli play in Naples. Fiorentina play in Florence. Slavia Prague play in Praha. Steaua Bucharest play in Bucuresti.

And Bayern Munich play in München, which is in Bavaria.

Unless they are playing in Monaco (or Monaco di Baviera, to avoid confusion with any other Monaco (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-munich/munichs-italian-name-diverts-tourists-from-monaco-idUSL0972024920080409)).
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 03, 2019, 05:02:29 pm
Something wrong with my ears.

When you hear it being pronounced the way I mean, the difference is quite obvious.
It does sound more like an English ch than sh to me (both the youtube example and those on forvo). But it's definitely not quite either, which is probably part of the reason it's difficult for English speakers.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pickled Onion on June 03, 2019, 06:29:16 pm
Something wrong with my ears.

When you hear it being pronounced the way I mean, the difference is quite obvious.
It does sound more like an English ch than sh to me (both the youtube example and those on forvo). But it's definitely not quite either, which is probably part of the reason it's difficult for English speakers.

Yes, there's a difference, but even the IPA guide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Spanish) says the closest English sound is as in choose (not shoes), so it's not really cringeworthy. Pronouncing it as a proper soft sh- might be.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Auntie Helen on June 03, 2019, 06:36:06 pm
Football club names are an odd case. Napoli play in Naples. Fiorentina play in Florence. Slavia Prague play in Praha. Steaua Bucharest play in Bucuresti.

And Bayern Munich play in München, which is in Bavaria.

Unless they are playing in Monaco (or Monaco di Baviera, to avoid confusion with any other Monaco (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-munich/munichs-italian-name-diverts-tourists-from-monaco-idUSL0972024920080409)).
My tame German says the team is Bayern München.

I guess in English-speaking places the München is translated to Munich but it’s not in use here.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 03, 2019, 06:37:16 pm
tʃ is the same IPA symbol I remember learning for an English ch sound. But that was 20 years ago so I might be misremembering and/or the notation might have changed a little. In any case, cringeworthiness is more a personal reaction than a hard and fast standard. I'm not sure even "kway" for quay (as in early post of mine) makes me cringe: it might amuse me or make me ponder the strange ways we spell words. (Though if I ever have to say quinoa it makes me cringe a bit: it either sounds poncy or mistaken. I guess if I actually ate the stuff, "keenwah" would sound right, and if I'd never heard of it, "kwinoa" would be the obvious way to say it.)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on June 03, 2019, 07:02:34 pm
I guess in English-speaking places the München is translated to Munich but it’s not in use here.

Yes, that’s the point - no one in England calls them Bavaria Munich.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on June 03, 2019, 07:08:14 pm
Something wrong with my ears.

When you hear it being pronounced the way I mean, the difference is quite obvious.
It does sound more like an English ch than sh to me (both the youtube example and those on forvo). But it's definitely not quite either, which is probably part of the reason it's difficult for English speakers.

Yes, there's a difference, but even the IPA guide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Spanish) says the closest English sound is as in choose (not shoes), so it's not really cringeworthy. Pronouncing it as a proper soft sh- might be.

It’s all very well for you to say it’s not cringeworthy but wait until you hear someone say it the way I’ve heard it said.

Which you obviously haven’t or you’d know what I meant.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on June 03, 2019, 07:59:56 pm
I'm sure I've heard that foopball team from Gelsenkirchen referred to as Schalke null vier ???
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 03, 2019, 08:52:05 pm
Something wrong with my ears.

When you hear it being pronounced the way I mean, the difference is quite obvious.
It does sound more like an English ch than sh to me (both the youtube example and those on forvo). But it's definitely not quite either, which is probably part of the reason it's difficult for English speakers.

Yes, there's a difference, but even the IPA guide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Spanish) says the closest English sound is as in choose (not shoes), so it's not really cringeworthy. Pronouncing it as a proper soft sh- might be.

It’s all very well for you to say it’s not cringeworthy but wait until you hear someone say it the way I’ve heard it said.

Which you obviously haven’t or you’d know what I meant.
'koritzo'? I'm not sure I've heard that, but it's logical, given that Italian tends to be higher regarded (in food at least) than Spanish.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: rogerzilla on June 03, 2019, 09:03:05 pm
Everyone in financial services pronounces "leverage" the USian way  :facepalm:

I still can't work out why Stephen Rea also pronounces "lever" the  American way in "V for Vendetta".  It really grates.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on June 04, 2019, 12:21:53 am
Everyone in financial services pronounces "leverage" the USian way  :facepalm:

I tend to regard that one as a useful warning.  But then I was trying (without much success) to get "soddering" adopted for the unsatisfying lead-free version of the process.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on June 04, 2019, 12:45:34 pm
Everyone in financial services pronounces "leverage" the USian way  :facepalm:

I think this is SOP among the kind of management wonks who use the hateful verb.  Not sure I've ever heard it pronounced otherwise, though at the kind of meetings where it customarily cropped up I was usually in la-la-not-listening mode after three minutes.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on June 04, 2019, 12:50:38 pm
I'd always assumed leverAGE for the financial sense can LEVERage for the actual levering. Though I probably made this up in a manner so convincing that I can no longer accept another explanation.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 04, 2019, 12:53:10 pm
I've never heard leverAGE. Do they say that? I've heard the financial version rhyming with clever and the moving rhyming with leaver.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on June 04, 2019, 01:00:14 pm
Everyone in financial services pronounces "leverage" the USian way  :facepalm:

I tend to regard that one as a useful warning.  But then I was trying (without much success) to get "soddering" adopted for the unsatisfying lead-free version of the process.

Leaving out the -er would probably get turfed out and all.

Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on June 04, 2019, 01:04:20 pm
In managementese it's LEVVER-age or LEV-RIDGE or something else wrong and unpleasant and generally likely to give me an itchy shovel finger.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on June 05, 2019, 06:17:49 pm
'koritzo'? I'm not sure I've heard that, but it's logical, given that Italian tends to be higher regarded (in food at least) than Spanish.

No - I have heard it said with a k but that’s not what I meant. Perhaps I’m being over-sensitive to what is really a minor nuance of pronunciation, but then it also riles me when cloth-eared northerners can’t discern a difference between a “long” a (as in the correct pronunciation of bath) and an “ar” sound.

And I am *definitely* in the right on that one.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on June 06, 2019, 03:49:29 pm
'koritzo'? I'm not sure I've heard that, but it's logical, given that Italian tends to be higher regarded (in food at least) than Spanish.

Funny, though: I reckon the koritzo clan all know how to pronounce macho. They probably don't realize they're both Spanish, though.

I like chilometro in Italian.  I know it's kilo- but the idea of a chillometer is rather Inherent-Vice-ish.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 06, 2019, 03:51:39 pm
I've heard people say "mako" (and not just for the shark). Okay, only one person. But "makismo" seems to be an accepted pronunciation.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on June 06, 2019, 04:06:57 pm
I was reminded yesterday evening of one of the weird transatlantic things – Anthony Bourdain was eating 'turbo' which is, of course, turbot (which any fool knows rhymes with robot). The Americans also insist on the Frenchish pronunciation of Fillet o' Fish. Even in poorest southern backwater that can host a McDonalds, they'll fillet like a mignon. See also clique and niche which I pronounce properly (like an Englishman, and the correct way to pronounce chorizo is, of course, sausage).

Though just to fuck with my expectations, in Texas (or it might have been Colorado) some years back I asked for the buffet [pronounced buff-eh!] and the waiter looked back at me for a second and said don't you mean the buffet, sir? OK, more of a burrf-it. No, I replied brightly, I mean the buffet. Anyway, it was Texas (or Colorado), so we solved our pronunciation dispute through an exchange of medium-to-high calibre gunfire.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 06, 2019, 04:35:11 pm
"I've got a car as big as a turbot
And it's got a turbo driven by a robot"
As the B52s sang. I think.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 06, 2019, 04:37:42 pm
Though just to fuck with my expectations, in Texas (or it might have been Colorado) some years back I asked for the buffet [pronounced buff-eh!] and the waiter looked back at me for a second and said don't you mean the buffet, sir? OK, more of a burrf-it. No, I replied brightly, I mean the buffet. Anyway, it was Texas (or Colorado), so we solved our pronunciation dispute through an exchange of medium-to-high calibre gunfire.
Buffet the vampire slayer (with medium-to-high calibre gunfire)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on June 06, 2019, 05:25:56 pm
German colleagues used to translate 'File not found' as 'Filet nicht gefunden'.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on June 06, 2019, 06:17:41 pm
Apparently, turbot is turbut. There's seems some dispute on the correct American pronunciation, but Anthony definitely said turbo.

This all said, I don't think I've ever encountered a turbot, plated or otherwise. I can, as a gentleman of class and refinement who enjoys only the splendid things, confirm the US pronunciation of Fillet o' Fish. Except I'm, in part, wrong-o. It's apparently a Filet-o-Fish®. All these years I've been ordering it like a jaunty devil-may-care Franco-Irishman, the bastard son of a Breton fisherman and flame-haired Irish maiden, freshly arrived and seeking my fame and fortune in America.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on June 07, 2019, 12:04:54 pm
USAnians of my acquaintance pronounce the sossidge "ch-ree-zo" and the locally-built stuff I had once in Nevada knocked the Spaignish version into a cocked hat.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 07, 2019, 03:14:51 pm
I was reminded yesterday evening of one of the weird transatlantic things – Anthony Bourdain was eating 'turbo' which is, of course, turbot (which any fool knows rhymes with robot). The Americans also insist on the Frenchish pronunciation of Fillet o' Fish. Even in poorest southern backwater that can host a McDonalds, they'll fillet like a mignon. See also clique and niche which I pronounce properly (like an Englishman, and the correct way to pronounce chorizo is, of course, sausage).

Though just to fuck with my expectations, in Texas (or it might have been Colorado) some years back I asked for the buffet [pronounced buff-eh!] and the waiter looked back at me for a second and said don't you mean the buffet, sir? OK, more of a burrf-it. No, I replied brightly, I mean the buffet. Anyway, it was Texas (or Colorado), so we solved our pronunciation dispute through an exchange of medium-to-high calibre gunfire.
There might be solid historical reasons why USAnians are more receptive than Britannians to French pronunciation.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on June 07, 2019, 04:49:45 pm
I noticed that what USAnians pronounce the au jus Brits pronounce gravy.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on June 07, 2019, 08:36:22 pm
Gravy in the US is a Different Beast. Eaten with biscuits.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Andrij on June 08, 2019, 09:35:29 am
Gravy in the US is a Different Beast. Eaten with biscuits.

That's sausage gravy.

Now I'm hungry...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on June 08, 2019, 09:41:48 am
Right enough, we once had a bloke who'd spent years in NY to dinner, and he pronounced my roquefort/madeira/cream sauce to be 'lovely gravy'.  We put it down to his ancestral Mancunian barbarity, but maybe he'd been indoctrinated over there.

Hum. Maybe it was œufs meurettes. Anyway, gravy was the term.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: FifeingEejit on June 08, 2019, 11:41:52 am
I confess that I've never heard anyone British pronounce chorizo that way. It always comes out as a comedy (I use the word advisedly) Allo Allo accent. Once in Bingley our waitress did a rather splendid chor-IT-toh! which was delivered with such verve that I feared she was about to fight a bull or commence the flamenco mid-order. I can't really capture it though, because it was also in broad Yorkshirese. She didn't, unfortunately, start dancing and singing and the only bovine was plated.

Come to think of it, I'd like to hear Italians Talk Cockney, the first of my podcasts in Making Foreigns Talk Proper series.
If we're saying words how they're written  then Chorizo gets a bit weird up here

/X/ oh rrr ee * oh

The * depends on how you want to pronounce the yough, properly or as a glottal stop.

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Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hubner on June 08, 2019, 12:13:41 pm
If we're speaking English then, as far I care, we should use the anglicized pronunciation rather than mangling foreign pronunciation with comedy lisps and the like. Quite often it just sounds affected.

What really grates is people affecting the Castilian lisp for chorizo but starting it with a hard English 'tch'

 ??? what should it be? Sh- or K- ?

https://youtu.be/yNM8rN7vf2w

(closer to 'sh' than 'tch', I'd say)

That is definitely a ch as in chore (IPA: tʃ), and definitely not sh (ʃ) as in shore.

And it seems Spanish doesn't even have ʃ as a "normal" sound, only occurring in foreign words.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on June 08, 2019, 12:42:35 pm
That is definitely a ch as in chore (IPA: tʃ), and definitely not sh (ʃ) as in shore.

Yes, but there’s a difference between a soft ch and a hard ch. The Spanish ch is softer than the English ch - not sh as in shore, just a bit more towards that end of the spectrum.

Am I really the only one who can hear this?

Possibly a hang-over from my trumpet playing days.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on June 08, 2019, 04:36:26 pm
Gravy in the US is a Different Beast. Eaten with biscuits.

Biscuits in the US is a Different Beast.  Scones.  Eaten with wallpaper paste.  For breakfast.  :sick:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pickled Onion on June 08, 2019, 06:46:15 pm
That is definitely a ch as in chore (IPA: tʃ), and definitely not sh (ʃ) as in shore.

Yes, but there’s a difference between a soft ch and a hard ch. The Spanish ch is softer than the English ch - not sh as in shore, just a bit more towards that end of the spectrum.

Am I really the only one who can hear this?

Possibly a hang-over from my trumpet playing days.

There is a difference, a Spanish ch is lighter and slightly more aspirated. My Spanish teacher explained it like this: for an English ch you push your lips forwards and form an "O" shape; for a Spanish ch, stretch your lips to a grin. But the sound is still a ch, much closer to  tʃ than ʃ.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on June 08, 2019, 08:46:41 pm
There is a difference, a Spanish ch is lighter and slightly more aspirated.

Which is exactly what I said in the first place, so I really don’t understand why you challenged me on it.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on June 10, 2019, 09:45:42 am
Gravy in the US is a Different Beast. Eaten with biscuits.

Biscuits in the US is a Different Beast.  Scones.  Eaten with wallpaper paste.  For breakfast.  :sick:

I quite like it as an occasional novelty (like giant pancake stacks*, which I always regret when I attempt to move and realise I've achieved the sort of mass usually found orbiting G class stars). That said, I've lived for the while in the South. You might think things are a slower pace down there because of the humid climes but mostly it takes till 7pm to digest breakfast. This is generally not helped by the average drink size being 32 fluid oz.

*I've told the story before, but it deserves retelling, I once ate two helpings of pancakes just to stay tuned to the adventure of two wizards in LA. Seriously, these two guys were deep in conversation about how to use magic to get themselves noticed in Hollywood. They were quite serious if it turned out ill-equipped since it seemed they had yet to learn any wizardry, but I admired their career plan to learn to be professional full-qualified wizards and only then take Hollywood by storm.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pingu on July 14, 2019, 11:12:52 pm
Furry boots he from?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VYSgMk6A6g

 :)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: FifeingEejit on July 15, 2019, 12:36:07 am
Doric probably shows best that the divergence between Scots, northumbric and English happened long before the modern forms.

Yet he still tries to make it sound like a modern English dialect, im sure he must have looked at one of the norse languages in the past...

Queen is a derivative of a proto Germanic word for woman, as is quine as used in the north east, as is Kvinna as used in the norse languages.

Still stands out to me that "long day" in Danish is said almost exactly the same as in Doric.

Lang day

You'd almost think the Germanic languages are all related...

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Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on July 15, 2019, 10:03:40 am
I was up in Aberdeen during their university charities (rag) week untold years ago. One of their slogans was FARSYADOJO, i.e. where is your money, Joseph?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on July 15, 2019, 11:06:07 am
Furry boots he from?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VYSgMk6A6g

 :)

Set Rueben on him.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: chrisbainbridge on July 18, 2019, 07:50:51 am
Coming from the outskirts of Stockport in Cheshire I went to university in Aberdeen.  The first year was mainly lecture based and had little contact with locals.  However I got a summer job in a construction company 5 miles north of Inverurie erecting Dutch barns around Scotland.  I still remember the total incomprehension on the first morning of meeting the foreman. "Hi Loon, fit like, hae your piece?".  It was actually the best training for moving onto the wards later on where I was able to translate for some of my colleagues.

I also have the annoying tendency anytime we are driving around the area between Perth and Huntley of suddenly telling other occupants that I built the Dutch barn they can see.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: FifeingEejit on July 18, 2019, 12:51:04 pm
Ach, he was being considerate with that Hi on the front.
Normally it's "Ha fit Like Loun, hae yir piece wi yi?"
(How are you young man, have you got your luncheon with you?)

My Gran speaks Mearns which is a mix of Doric and Midlands Scots though mostly doric, I'll usually speak in to a mix of SSE and Midlands when speaking to her.
Such like:
"Fit like loun?"
"Nae bad gran, hows you?"
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: chrisbainbridge on July 18, 2019, 07:18:13 pm
Hi, Ha auto spelling. 

Mymother in law spoke gaelic till she went ti school and would still speak to her mother in gaelic.  My wife knows enough gaelic (embedded somewhere in her brain) that she was able to semi-chat to an old lady in hospital from the North west of Scotland.

We then moved to Lanarkshire and then Glasgow before Edinburgh, learning a new language in each place.

I remember the description of Edinburgh people as "come in, you'll have had your tea."  Whereas in the Northwest, any visit required a cooked meal with pancakes.  Salmon fish cakes because they were feuds with straight salmon was  amazing as was collecting the crab from the creel, rowing back to shore and 5 minutes later it would be cooking in the pan.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: FifeingEejit on July 18, 2019, 07:56:10 pm
Pancakes were certainly always on the menu at my Great Aunt's in Fort Augustus, but that was Dad's side of the family.
Being a farming/mill lassie fae Dundee she had to learn the Gaelic tae speak tae the dugs on the farm.
Didn't have the modern harsh mill dialect but can't remember if like my direct relatives on Dundee she spoke SSE or if she spoke Midlands.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Feanor on July 18, 2019, 08:05:32 pm
Hmm, I tend to revert a wee bit to Doric when speaking with Mother Dear, who comes from Gamrie stock, but was brought up in Macduff.

When I first brought the not-yet-Mrs-F home, she struggled to understand any of it!
And I thought I was being rather mild in the use of it!

Regarding Gamrie, that's a whole other sub-language variant on the Doric!
Spoken only within about 2 fishing villages in a two mile radius!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on July 18, 2019, 08:13:21 pm
I’ve never been to Aberdeen but my favourite Aberdeen story is the hoax posted on Twitter that got picked up by Sky Sports, who ran it as a legit story - the prankster claimed Aberdeen FC had signed a player called Yerdas Selzavon.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: FifeingEejit on July 18, 2019, 08:37:07 pm
Trying to get spoof signings onto the news as a favourite of the football message board I'm on a few years ago. Not sure if that was one of them but there was various similar.

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Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Legs on January 21, 2020, 08:56:08 am
I was out on site yesterday with a builder who repeatedly said "chimberley" (chimney, btw) and I don't think it was ironic..
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: pcolbeck on January 21, 2020, 09:05:27 am
I was out on site yesterday with a builder who repeatedly said "chimberley" (chimney, btw) and I don't think it was ironic..

You are going to hate this then:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYm3-7hkMww

 :)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Legs on January 21, 2020, 04:55:38 pm
<shudder>
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Wowbagger on January 22, 2020, 12:35:15 pm
Wasn't that how it was pronounced in "Under Milk Wood"?

*googles*

Ah yes - Mr. Waldo's song:

Quote
In Pembroke City when I was young
I lived by the Castle Keep
Sixpence a week was my wages
For working for the chimbley-sweep.
Six cold pennies he
gave me Not a farthing more or less
And all the fare I could afford
Was parsnip gin and watercress.
I did not need a knife and fork
Or a bib up to my chin
To dine on a dish of watercress
And a jug of parsnip gin.
Did you ever hear a growing boy
To live so cruel cheap
On grub that has no flesh and bones
And liquor that makes you weep?
Sweep sweep chimbley sweep,
I wept through Pembroke City
Poor and barefoot in the snow
Till a kind young woman took pity.
Poor little chimbley sweep she said
Black as the ace of spades
O nobody's swept my chimbley
Since my husband went his ways
Come and sweep my chimbley
Come and sweep my chimbley
She sighed to me with a blush
Come and sweep my chimbley
Come and sweep my chimbley
Bring along your chimbley brush!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Nuncio on January 22, 2020, 01:29:11 pm
I think it's a fairly common dialect variant, isn't it? Or at least used to be.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: fboab on January 22, 2020, 09:53:29 pm
I heard a song today that rhymed ours with grass.

I shuddered.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: mattc on March 07, 2020, 12:00:25 pm
'archiepel-'AARgo

Wow. You live for nearly half a century and then hear a familiar word said in a totally new way.

Wow.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hatler on March 07, 2020, 12:06:55 pm
I just heard that too. Took me a few seconds to process.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: tonyh on March 07, 2020, 12:16:20 pm

Yesterday I rather liked (so this is the wrong thread) epEEdemic.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on June 16, 2020, 09:00:40 am
The other day I noticed that the narrator of $TV_PROGRAMME had ceased to utter the word "tonne*" such that it rhymes with "sun" or "bun" and now says it in a way that it rhymes with "don", "swan" or "scone".  This is, to this Unit, plain Wrong and he needs to stop it forthwith.

* I assume he's talking about these, since said prog is shot in a metric country viz. Australia
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on June 16, 2020, 09:29:43 am
'archiepel-'AARgo

Wow. You live for nearly half a century and then hear a familiar word said in a totally new way.

Wow.

That's how pirates say it. And they should know.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on June 16, 2020, 09:37:02 am
Flare pronounced flayawe, dark pronounced dawk, but USAnian speaker so yes, well.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on June 16, 2020, 09:59:49 am
Mary Anne Hobbs frequently has me shouting at the radio for her mangling of words, but she hit new heights last week when reading the title of a piece as "in E B minor".

I like Mary Anne Hobbs. She plays a good selection of music, and she has a good voice for radio. But she's just not very bright.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on June 16, 2020, 10:18:25 am
Maybe she'd been watching Green Eggs and Ham.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on June 16, 2020, 10:44:02 am
Dr Seuss references are wasted on me.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on June 16, 2020, 10:47:40 am
Shame: GE&H is magnificent.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 16, 2020, 11:56:30 am
Mary Anne Hobbs frequently has me shouting at the radio for her mangling of words, but she hit new heights last week when reading the title of a piece as "in E B minor".

I like Mary Anne Hobbs. She plays a good selection of music, and she has a good voice for radio. But she's just not very bright.
Was the next piece in D hash major?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: pcolbeck on June 16, 2020, 01:05:37 pm
Mrs Pcolbeck once had a new teacher in the class she is TA for that was straight out of college and was from the Home Counties.
He was trying to teach the kids spelling and pronunciation of new words by matching them with other words that rhymed.
The thing was that almost every pair of words he came up with may have rhymed in Surrey but in North Yorkshire they certainly didn't. Mrs Pcolbeck was crying laughing.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: nicknack on June 16, 2020, 01:16:36 pm
Mary Anne Hobbs frequently has me shouting at the radio for her mangling of words, but she hit new heights last week when reading the title of a piece as "in E B minor".

I like Mary Anne Hobbs. She plays a good selection of music, and she has a good voice for radio. But she's just not very bright.
Was the next piece in D hash major?
Unlikely. That would be 9 'hashes' for 7 notes.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Tim Hall on June 16, 2020, 01:23:11 pm
Mary Anne Hobbs frequently has me shouting at the radio for her mangling of words, but she hit new heights last week when reading the title of a piece as "in E B minor".

I like Mary Anne Hobbs. She plays a good selection of music, and she has a good voice for radio. But she's just not very bright.
Mitchell and Webb. F hashtag minor.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p01mv2zh (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p01mv2zh)

(Interestingly (FSVO interstingly...) typing "F hastag minor" into google returned answers for F sharp)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: fimm on June 16, 2020, 01:47:23 pm
Mrs Pcolbeck once had a new teacher in the class she is TA for that was straight out of college and was from the Home Counties.
He was trying to teach the kids spelling and pronunciation of new words by matching them with other words that rhymed.
The thing was that almost every pair of words he came up with may have rhymed in Surrey but in North Yorkshire they certainly didn't. Mrs Pcolbeck was crying laughing.
I once read a story of a teacher in similar circumstances whose class informed her that the opposite of "appear" was "down there"...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on June 16, 2020, 02:16:45 pm
One of those things about growing up a bit pikey in the part of the UK that speaks a dialect that only resembles English to someone who's had an ear candling mishap is that you spend a life being corrected on pronunciation and other little details. Don't you mean?, they'll say, pedantically. As a child, I learned most everything from books so pronunciation often had to be guessed at using the peculiarly tuned phonetics of the region. It wasn't like I could ask my mum how to pronounce 'Achilles' or 'diplodocus' or somesuch and it was before the time you could hit a button and have the computer tell you. Or 'chorizo,' though that had yet to become a menu item, the most exotic thing in the early 1980's East Midlands still came in a box labelled Vesta (not that I was allowed, as it would 'make the house smell', presumably of something other than cigarette smoke and perpetual overcooking, the madeleines of my childhood).

People still do it today, especially with foreign words (and I think often they're making them up, or adding that signature English theatrical flourish). Generally, I smile tolerantly, wait till they turn their backs and murder them. OK, I wouldn't have have done the 'E B minor' – though all I remember from music lessons at my school was the xylophone didn't have a full complement of keys and the C was quite an important omission – but mostly because I used to attempt to play the guitar (I suspect less down to a deep, abiding love for music, but more because my misguided brain thought a series of badly played chords would somehow feature as an aphrodisiac for female company, but anyway, I could play all the notes flat).
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on June 16, 2020, 02:21:29 pm
anyway, I could play all the notes flat).
If you play all the notes flat, you're making a hash of them.


Sorry.


Okay, I'm not really.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on June 16, 2020, 06:27:02 pm
"A Scientist" on the anbaric distascope referring to those dangly things found in caves as "sta-LAGG-tites".  Get in the sea.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Davef on June 16, 2020, 06:58:03 pm
One of those things about growing up a bit pikey in the part of the UK that speaks a dialect that only resembles English to someone who's had an ear candling mishap is that you spend a life being corrected on pronunciation and other little details. Don't you mean?, they'll say, pedantically. As a child, I learned most everything from books so pronunciation often had to be guessed at using the peculiarly tuned phonetics of the region. It wasn't like I could ask my mum how to pronounce 'Achilles' or 'diplodocus' or somesuch and it was before the time you could hit a button and have the computer tell you. Or 'chorizo,' though that had yet to become a menu item, the most exotic thing in the early 1980's East Midlands still came in a box labelled Vesta (not that I was allowed, as it would 'make the house smell', presumably of something other than cigarette smoke and perpetual overcooking, the madeleines of my childhood).

People still do it today, especially with foreign words (and I think often they're making them up, or adding that signature English theatrical flourish). Generally, I smile tolerantly, wait till they turn their backs and murder them. OK, I wouldn't have have done the 'E B minor' – though all I remember from music lessons at my school was the xylophone didn't have a full complement of keys and the C was quite an important omission – but mostly because I used to attempt to play the guitar (I suspect less down to a deep, abiding love for music, but more because my misguided brain thought a series of badly played chords would somehow feature as an aphrodisiac for female company, but anyway, I could play all the notes flat).
Vesta is still available in pretty much the same options as the 80s. As ready meals, by modern standards, they aren’t very ready.


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Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on June 16, 2020, 07:37:27 pm
I never had one. I used to gaze at them wistfully in the supermarket only to be dragged away by my mother. To be honest, I was a bit scared too – I never had any kind of 'ethnic' food (not even pretend) till I got to university. We did have a Chinese takeaway when I was growing up (delightfully called the 'Chinky' by everyone, probably still is) though we never went. Obviously. Fish and chips once a week though.

My mother is a bit extreme, she lives entirely off cheese cobs and has done since about 1978 when she ate something she didn't like and decided why take another chance. She refuses to believe that olive oil is for anything but cleaning ears and the colour of curry sauce makes her physically sick. My fathers claimed aversion to garlic is only rivalled by Dracula. But Dracula, I feel sure, is never found halfway through noshing a table-sized family pizza.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on June 17, 2020, 09:09:34 am
Mary Anne Hobbs frequently has me shouting at the radio for her mangling of words, but she hit new heights last week when reading the title of a piece as "in E B minor".

I like Mary Anne Hobbs. She plays a good selection of music, and she has a good voice for radio. But she's just not very bright.
Mitchell and Webb. F hashtag minor.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p01mv2zh (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p01mv2zh)

(Interestingly (FSVO interstingly...) typing "F hastag minor" into google returned answers for F sharp)

We had a couple at school we called F sharp major and B flat minor.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Tim Hall on August 17, 2020, 11:39:36 pm
Russell Davis, off of Radio 4, just said "di-atoms" when talking about the microscopic algae, known to everyone else as "dia-toms".
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on September 21, 2020, 03:37:05 pm
Just noticed that the US pronunciation of "futile" sounds almost like "feudal".
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on September 21, 2020, 04:08:13 pm
The “English”-speaking announcer on the Champs-Elysée yesterday referred to “el-light” cyclists.  TV's are expensive, otherwise mine would have a coffee-mug-shaped hole in the screen.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Jakob W on September 22, 2020, 08:05:25 am
Just noticed that the US pronunciation of "futile" sounds almost like "feudal".

A Texan saying 'Space Ghetto' sounds exactly like a Glaswegian saying 'Spice Girl'...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Nuncio on September 22, 2020, 02:51:54 pm
Just noticed that the US pronunciation of "futile" sounds almost like "feudal".

See also phonetic similarities between a Scottish 'Pearl' and an American 'Petal'. Alveolar tap, innit.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: tonyh on September 22, 2020, 03:39:41 pm
... tries saying those with appropriate accent... repeats... improves... grasps!

Thanks Nuncio!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Tim Hall on September 23, 2020, 06:57:54 pm
I'm getting a new front door. As I live in a leasehold flat the landlord has some say in the matter. It must be a 30 minute fire door, fitted with strips that swell when heated to seal it against smoke. What the door manufacturers and nearly everyone refers to as "intumescent strips". Exceptions to this are the person at the landlord and the Cheery Chippy who both call them "intermittent strips." A sort of part time sealant presumably.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Davef on September 23, 2020, 09:53:04 pm
Odd word that. I would have thought intumescent was the opposite of tumescent.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on September 23, 2020, 09:57:16 pm
Inflammable is not the opposite of flammable...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on September 24, 2020, 12:28:22 am
Exceptions to this are the person at the landlord and the Cheery Chippy who both call them "intermittent strips." A sort of part time sealant presumably.

That's the stuff they use for sealing around shower tiles.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on September 24, 2020, 09:04:16 am
Inflammable is not the opposite of flammable...
Prompted me to check Merriam-Webster. I'm not sure how representative it is of the President's English, but they list inflame and inflammatory but not "flammatory". Although they do, logically, have flammation. They also say:
Quote
In the early 20th century, firefighters worried that people might think inflammable meant "not able to catch fire," so they adopted flammable and nonflammable as official safety labels and encouraged their use to prevent confusion. In general use, flammable is now the preferred term for describing things that can catch fire, but inflammable is still occasionally used with that meaning as well.
Firefighters, bold in action but worried about words.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on September 24, 2020, 10:46:56 am
Odd word that. I would have thought intumescent was the opposite of tumescent.

It's a different in-, as in information, which isn't the opposite of formation.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: fimm on September 24, 2020, 10:58:38 am
I'm not sure that this is the best thread for this, but anyway: my husband made a cake and informed me that he had used up the last of the "dissected" coconut to do so.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Davef on September 24, 2020, 11:09:15 am
Odd word that. I would have thought intumescent was the opposite of tumescent.

It's a different in-, as in information, which isn't the opposite of formation.
Hmmm, so “tumescent” has meant “swelling” for centuries. In the 1950s someone comes up with “intumescent” meaning swelling caused by heat or fire. If I was making up a new word I would have gone for “pyrotumescent” or “thermotumescent”, maybe with a hyphen.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on September 24, 2020, 11:23:16 am
Intumescence doesn't have to be caused by heat, it's just come to be used that way. There's something about fire that leads to an urge to add an in- to the front of words. You have intumescent paint but a tumescent penis. Hopefully not at the same time, it'll get in the way.

Weirdly, no one uses tumescent paint and intumescent penises are rarely sighted.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hatler on September 24, 2020, 11:29:39 am
Ralgex deep heat anyone ?   Ewwwwww.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on September 24, 2020, 11:35:47 am
I like your thinking. So slathering on Deep Heat to inflame one's singular passion is the distinction between tumescence and intumescence.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on September 24, 2020, 11:41:31 am
Odd word that. I would have thought intumescent was the opposite of tumescent.

It's a different in-, as in information, which isn't the opposite of formation.
It's the in- that means in!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Davef on September 24, 2020, 12:21:43 pm
Intumescence doesn't have to be caused by heat, it's just come to be used that way. There's something about fire that leads to an urge to add an in- to the front of words. You have intumescent paint but a tumescent penis. Hopefully not at the same time, it'll get in the way.

Weirdly, no one uses tumescent paint and intumescent penises are rarely sighted.
As I said. Odd word. Tumescent, the adjective, means swollen. Intumescence the noun derived from it, meaning “a swelling” used in medicine. The very rare adjective “intumescent” meant “marked by swellings” but I cannot find a real example of it being used. Since the 1950s intumescent has been used an adjective applied to paint the swells under heat or fire. If you look up “intumescent” in the dictionary that is what it says as the main meaning.

So “intumescent” means marked by swellings or a paint the swells on heating.

A swollen penis and a penis marked by swellings are quite different things.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on September 24, 2020, 12:31:57 pm
Inflammable is not the opposite of flammable...
Prompted me to check Merriam-Webster. I'm not sure how representative it is of the President's English, but they list inflame and inflammatory but not "flammatory". Although they do, logically, have flammation. They also say:
Quote
In the early 20th century, firefighters worried that people might think inflammable meant "not able to catch fire," so they adopted flammable and nonflammable as official safety labels and encouraged their use to prevent confusion. In general use, flammable is now the preferred term for describing things that can catch fire, but inflammable is still occasionally used with that meaning as well.
Firefighters, bold in action but worried about words.

Now you’ve got me wondering why Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew et all didn’t complain about Stiff Little Fingers' debut album…
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on September 24, 2020, 12:36:20 pm
...

A swollen penis and a penis marked by swellings are quite different things.

Well, yes, that's what she said...

Intumescence doesn't just mean marked by swellings though (they'd probably be intumescences). Older medical texts refer to the 'intumescence of pregnancy' which is basically the bulge. Seems popular (along with womb and uterus in older copies of the Lancet, probably because they've digitized their back archive).

A couple of examples:

The intumescence of the uterus continued about the same and Jules Verne: Here, an intumescence which was to become a mountain, there, an abyss which was to be filled with an ocean or a sea.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: SteveC on September 24, 2020, 12:55:18 pm
I'm not sure that this is the best thread for this, but anyway: my husband made a cake and informed me that he had used up the last of the "dissected" coconut to do so.
Known as desecrated coconut here.
Title: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Davef on September 24, 2020, 12:57:30 pm
...

A swollen penis and a penis marked by swellings are quite different things.

Well, yes, that's what she said...

Intumescence doesn't just mean marked by swellings though (they'd probably be intumescences). Older medical texts refer to the 'intumescence of pregnancy' which is basically the bulge. Seems popular (along with womb and uterus in older copies of the Lancet, probably because they've digitized their back archive).

A couple of examples:

The intumescence of the uterus continued about the same and Jules Verne: Here, an intumescence which was to become a mountain, there, an abyss which was to be filled with an ocean or a sea.
I am referring to the adjective “intumescent”. Those are a fine couple of examples of the noun “intumescence” which means swelling. My (old) paper dictionary has “intumescence” and “tumescent” but does not have “intumescent”. Looking on line I see the adjective intumescent means swollen by heat or fire (since 1953) or before that “marked by intumescences”. I was saying that I could find no real world examples of the word “intumescent” other than referring to paint. It is the specific word “intumescent” I cant find in action using its original meaning and as fine as your examples of the noun are, they have not changed that.

Edit: ok I have found a reference to an “intumescent cataract” which does reference a swollen lens. Not sure 100% whether it is being used as “marked by swellings” or “is swollen”.

Edit: an “intumescent cataract” could of course be a waterfall of special paint.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on September 24, 2020, 02:04:24 pm
Intumescent seems to have been co-opted by the fiery infammatorialists for reasons unknown (the OED doesn't say). Medicine seems to revert to tumescent tissues.

Tumescent is ascendant everywhere else. Much Victorian prose can also be described as tumescent too, all that clausal, orotund language, burdened with tumid description and sesquipedalian sentences.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on October 03, 2020, 02:10:50 am
I do not know on which planet the word goujons is pronounced “goo-joes” but I hope never to have to go there.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Giraffe on October 03, 2020, 10:11:31 am
Probably on Usanus.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on October 03, 2020, 10:25:40 am
Probably on Usanus.
Yes, almost certainly.

I’ve heard their natives say goo-jones but never with the silent n before.

Not that English pronunciations of French words are any better, as I’m sure we’ve discussed before.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on October 03, 2020, 10:33:13 am
This made me flee:  https://www.poemhunter.com/poem/the-lesson/

Needs more work.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on October 25, 2020, 11:18:01 pm
How long has that long thin country on the left hand side of South America been pronounced “Chee-lay”?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: fboab on October 26, 2020, 08:28:41 am
How long has that long thin country on the left hand side of South America been pronounced “Chee-lay”?

All the time they've been producing Aisle of Negra, IM(W)E. :facepalm:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on October 26, 2020, 09:18:11 am
How long has that long thin country on the left hand side of South America been pronounced “Chee-lay”?

Is this the US pronunciation that always makes it sound like they're making fun of Mexicans with a hilarious comedy accent?

I've been to Chile and they really don't pronounce it Chee-lay.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on October 26, 2020, 10:52:45 am
How long has that long thin country on the left hand side of South America been pronounced “Chee-lay”?

Is this the US pronunciation that always makes it sound like they're making fun of Mexicans with a hilarious comedy accent?

I've been to Chile and they really don't pronounce it Chee-lay.

This was a BBC news reader and a the BBC's South American Correspondent, though the latter slipped up mid-report and switched to “Chilly” for a couple of sentences before reverting.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on October 26, 2020, 11:33:54 am
How long has that long thin country on the left hand side of South America been pronounced “Chee-lay”?

Is this the US pronunciation that always makes it sound like they're making fun of Mexicans with a hilarious comedy accent?

I've been to Chile and they really don't pronounce it Chee-lay.

This was a BBC news reader and a the BBC's South American Correspondent, though the latter slipped up mid-report and switched to “Chilly” for a couple of sentences before reverting.
Chilly-challying.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pickled Onion on October 26, 2020, 01:05:00 pm
How long has that long thin country on the left hand side of South America been pronounced “Chee-lay”?

Is this the US pronunciation that always makes it sound like they're making fun of Mexicans with a hilarious comedy accent?

I've been to Chile and they really don't pronounce it Chee-lay.

They don't pronounce it Chilly either.

But really, if you're speaking English it should be pronounced the English way, even if it's not the way the locals pronounce it. All languages have their own versions of other countries, no Chilean would pronounce E.E.U.U. as "America" or even "United States" when speaking Spanish. When I went to Poland, all the Poles pronounced Warszawa as "Warsaw" when speaking to me, even the ones that didn't speak English.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on October 26, 2020, 01:25:27 pm
I've griped about false foreign pronunciation before, say it in English, though the Chill-lay things is an odd-one, but seems the insistence of the Americans. I once spent an amusing hour in a São Paulo restaurant with an American who was claiming to an audience which included several Chilians that it was, in fact, the proper pronunciation. It wasn't a war he won.

I did once hear a Canadian refer to New Delhi as New Del-HIGH which tickled.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on October 26, 2020, 01:35:53 pm
It doesn’t rhyme with “aisle” either, unless you’re Jimi Hendrix.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on October 26, 2020, 01:45:22 pm
Context is all. "Gay Paree" is not the same as "gay Paris".
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on October 26, 2020, 03:26:18 pm
My partner plays a Kawai piano.
We usually pronounce this ka-why as do British videos that feature this brand.
American videos seem to pronounce it K-Y which is rather slimy...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on October 26, 2020, 05:24:58 pm
USAnians pronounce a certain South Korean car manufacturer as “Hunday”.  Rhymes with the day after Saturday.  I wot not whether this is closer to the original Korean but it still grates.  As do “Marzda” and “Neesan” for a couple of their Japanese rivals.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on October 26, 2020, 05:28:29 pm
IIRC it's "Hunday" in India too. Have a fun day in your high and dry!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on October 30, 2020, 12:27:06 am
We own a malfunctioning Kärcher floor sweeper that D has taken to the Service Centre a few miles away.

I phoned to ask about progress of the repair.

Their answering machine pronounces the brand as 'Carcher'.

I know that's fair enough for we monoglot Brits but it still grates...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on October 30, 2020, 08:52:54 am
Herbs pronounced urbs "because it's French". Why pronounce the S, then, knothead?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: nicknack on October 30, 2020, 08:54:26 am
Herbs pronounced urbs "because it's French". Why pronounce the S, then, knothead?
'otel also.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on October 30, 2020, 11:13:48 am
Herbs pronounced urbs "because it's French". Why pronounce the S, then, knothead?
'otel also.

That's just people making liaison. The pukka grammar/pronunciation is awkward.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on October 30, 2020, 11:57:50 am
Herbs pronounced urbs "because it's French". Why pronounce the S, then, knothead?

Just checked the etymology. Apparently it's Middle English from Old French, and we only started pronouncing the H in the mid-19th century.

I've long since got over my problems with Americanised pronunciation of French words, bearing in mind how badly we treat them ourselves. But I don't think I'll ever make peace with "massoose".
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on October 30, 2020, 12:08:34 pm
Because of my time in the US and the number of American ladies I lured into betweensheeted dalliances with my British Accent, I find their pronunciation of 'erbs curiously alluring. Talk dirty. Oh oh oh cilantro!

They do, in return, correct our foolhardy pronunciation of Filet-o-Fish.

Of course, to be proper, I suggest we all go back to the time before the great vowel shift (not to be confused with the great bowel shift).
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: fboab on October 30, 2020, 12:29:32 pm
I will never forgive English people (with estuary accents) pronouncing "z" as zee. FFS. If USAnians can cope with pavements and lifts and flats, they can cope with zed.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Auntie Helen on October 30, 2020, 12:38:57 pm
Of course, to be proper, I suggest we all go back to the time before the great vowel shift (not to be confused with the great bowel shift).
In Germany I live quite close to the Benrather Linie which divided a massive consonant shift aeons ago. My bit of Niederrhein the locals say “wat ist dat” and the people just a bit further south say the normal German ‘was ist das’. I find it really interesting to hear the Niederrheiners talking as it’s more like English when you hear it, even though it’s fully understandable German.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Jasmine on October 30, 2020, 12:39:46 pm
They do, in return, correct our foolhardy pronunciation of Filet-o-Fish.


To which the reply is, "What's that place called where they have the mardi gras?"
I'm fairly confident the French don't have a place called "Or-leens"
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on October 30, 2020, 12:43:04 pm
I'm fairly confident the French don't have a place called "Or-leens"

They have a town called Beaulieu but I don't think they pronounce it byoo-lee.

People in glass houses and all that.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on October 30, 2020, 12:47:15 pm
They do, in return, correct our foolhardy pronunciation of Filet-o-Fish.


To which the reply is, "What's that place called where they have the mardi gras?"
I'm fairly confident the French don't have a place called "Or-leens"

To the locals, it's more of a New AHL-lee-ins. You've got to extract all three syllables yet blend the New into the AHL so its NAHL-lee-ins. But you've also got to make it sound effortless, it should be the pronunciation equivalent of rolling over in bed and going back to sleep. They'll still have warm beignets at 2pm so why hurry?

With some irony, I think one of the proposed theories for the great vowal shift is 'middle class hypercorrection.'
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on October 30, 2020, 12:54:16 pm
With some irony, I think one of the proposed theories for the great vowal shift is 'middle class hypercorrection.'

I'm sure hypercorrection, middle class or otherwise, is the reason behind a lot of manglings of dirty foreign words - the aforementioned "massoose" being a prime example from the US.

Here in the UK, I often hear "coop de grah" for coup de grace, which will mean something very different to French ears. The idea of delivering a coupe de gras to finish someone off is quite amusing.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on October 30, 2020, 01:59:27 pm
No more so than Cocteau's ballon de foutre.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on October 30, 2020, 02:05:55 pm
No more so than Cocteau's ballon de foutre.

An arresting image, but not one I've come across before. Where is that from?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on October 30, 2020, 02:28:11 pm
No more so than Cocteau's ballon de foutre.

An arresting image, but not one I've come across before. Where is that from?

Apparently he asked for one in a restaurant.  It's usually rendered in English as glass of sperm.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on October 30, 2020, 03:12:24 pm
With some irony, I think one of the proposed theories for the great vowal shift is 'middle class hypercorrection.'

I'm sure hypercorrection, middle class or otherwise, is the reason behind a lot of manglings of dirty foreign words - the aforementioned "massoose" being a prime example from the US.

Here in the UK, I often hear "coop de grah" for coup de grace, which will mean something very different to French ears. The idea of delivering a coupe de gras to finish someone off is quite amusing.

I am sure I've mentioned by request for the buffet to be corrected by the waiter to the 'do you mean the burf-ET?' It turned out that I did because it was Texas and who knows if any given day isn't Bring Your Firearms to Work Day and I didn't want to the one supercilious hotel guest between him and an 'active shooter' incident on WNTV-9.

Re the great vowel shift, some didn't shift. I half-speak an obscure dialect called Erewashian and fight is generally still pronounced as 'fate', water as w-HAT-ter, etc. Time didn't so much as forget the place, as take an alternative route. Still, we only emerged blinking from our tunnels in the late 1980s, finally saved from centuries of molish servitude by the great St Margaret of Thatcher. Bless her. I never knew coal wasn't an actual vegetable before then.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on October 30, 2020, 06:22:47 pm
Herbs pronounced urbs "because it's French". Why pronounce the S, then, knothead?

Just checked the etymology. Apparently it's Middle English from Old French, and we only started pronouncing the H in the mid-19th century.

I've long since got over my problems with Americanised pronunciation of French words, bearing in mind how badly we treat them ourselves. But I don't think I'll ever make peace with "massoose".

Nor yet “shon-tooze”, as used by people talking about the German lady singer on The Velvet Underground & Nico.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on October 30, 2020, 07:29:55 pm
I think we've done several episodes of Americans vs. Irish names before. That never fails to entertain.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on November 04, 2020, 02:40:18 am
No, TV's *** Boulting, whichever city in Idaho Team CCC's Will Barta hails from it ent “Boys”.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on November 04, 2020, 09:43:37 am
That's his own private pronunciation.  ;)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on November 21, 2020, 07:58:31 pm
The new Moto GP World Champion is from Spaign-o, Mr BBC sports reporter, and thus his name is emphatically not pronounced “Jone Murr”.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pingu on December 04, 2020, 06:57:59 pm
Various TV news types trying to say BioNTech.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hubner on December 04, 2020, 09:15:16 pm
I'm hearing "dep-portation" instead of "dee-portation" which sounds wrong, as though it's something to do with deputy, deputising or something.

Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on December 04, 2020, 09:44:24 pm
Quite appropriate then; isn't it deputised Serco?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Hilldodger on December 05, 2020, 06:06:46 pm
If you come to Leicestershire you can walk down Belvoir Street or visit Belvoir Castle in the Vale of Belvoir.

Around these parts, it's pronounced 'beaver'. :-)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on December 05, 2020, 06:10:46 pm
Is there any other way?
(H, Mayflower Junior 1965-1968)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Hilldodger on December 05, 2020, 06:25:21 pm
According to many out-of-towners it's 'belv-wah'.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on December 06, 2020, 12:01:03 am
My Danish mother was rapidly re-educated in 1964...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on December 06, 2020, 09:56:46 am
Someone on the radio yesterday actually said “pronounce-iation”
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: quixoticgeek on December 08, 2020, 08:04:46 pm


This one from twitter...

https://twitter.com/jackremmington/status/1336291652441427970

How do you get to Meekro Wahvé?

I...

wtf.

J
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on January 11, 2021, 08:02:25 pm
Radio's Tim Harford: the first name of your guest Professor Beate Kampmann is not pronounced “Beatty”.  If you do not know how to pronounce a guest's name it is only polite to find out beforehand instead of making an on-air tit of yourself.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: nicknack on January 11, 2021, 08:06:53 pm


This one from twitter...

https://twitter.com/jackremmington/status/1336291652441427970

How do you get to Meekro Wahvé?

I...

wtf.

J
I do believe she's taking the piss.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: pcolbeck on January 11, 2021, 08:17:13 pm


This one from twitter...

https://twitter.com/jackremmington/status/1336291652441427970

How do you get to Meekro Wahvé?

I...

wtf.

J
I do believe she's taking the piss.

She's divulged that it was a riff on a meme about Ikea selling microwaves and the weird names Ikea give to products. So yes it was a joke.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pingu on January 25, 2021, 08:09:57 pm
Someone on C4 News just pronounced chasm with the ch as in cheddar.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on January 26, 2021, 12:54:01 pm
Someone on C4 News just pronounced chasm with the ch as in cheddar.

I remember doing that as a kid, as is the way when you learn words by reading.  You'd think they'd have noticed before they got to do anything newsworthy...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mrs Pingu on January 26, 2021, 12:57:48 pm
Someone on C4 News just pronounced chasm with the ch as in cheddar.

I remember doing that as a kid, as is the way when you learn words by reading.  You'd think they'd have noticed before they got to do anything newsworthy...

It was a person running a campaign to get pupils back to school ASAP. Maybe that's why...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on January 26, 2021, 12:59:23 pm
Someone on C4 News just pronounced chasm with the ch as in cheddar.

I remember doing that as a kid, as is the way when you learn words by reading.  You'd think they'd have noticed before they got to do anything newsworthy...

It was a person running a campaign to get pupils back to school ASAP. Maybe that's why...

*snork*
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Ian H on January 26, 2021, 02:13:44 pm
Might of, could of, etc., as a pronunciation of **'ve.  Leading of course to the written version.  You wouldn't say or write 'I of done that' so it isn't 'I could of done that'.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on January 26, 2021, 02:17:45 pm
Might of, could of, etc., as a pronunciation of **'ve.  Leading of course to the written version.  You wouldn't say or write 'I of done that' so it isn't 'I could of done that'.

Corollary to the above, this is what happens when you write words you've learned through listening.  As a child with fluctuating hearing impairment, where dropping 'h's and 't's was de rigueur amongst my peers, attempts to correct this aspect of my vocabulary were met with general disbelief.

I think the moral of this story is that English is a stupid language.  But we knew that already.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on January 26, 2021, 02:29:23 pm
You would say chasm as in that great Cockney sonic ejaculators Chas-n-Dave-m if you weren't aware of the hard ch. I'm forgiving, I learned from books, which means you grow up to snotty people saying don't you mean? and then delivering their very correct pronunciation. Generally, I'm gracious about their correction, before burying their bodies somewhere they won't be found.

Listening to a presentation at the moment by a French lady. On every other slide there is the word 'focus' which she delivers so it sounds like a bit like 'fuck you.'
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hatler on January 26, 2021, 02:34:41 pm
Never take the mick out of people who don't pronounce words correctly, they must have learnt the word from a book. And we should encourage more of that.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Peter on January 26, 2021, 02:36:24 pm


Listening to a presentation at the moment by a French lady. On every other slide there is the word 'focus' which she delivers so it sounds like a bit like 'fuck you.'

As pronounced by Father Ted.....
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on January 26, 2021, 02:44:11 pm
There's another chap now who keeps saying BioRxiv (and MedRxiv) as Bio-RX-IV (with the letters pronounced). The X is a chi, so it's should be bio-archive (the name comes from the original physics preprint archive arXiv).

I'm not criticising the poor chap, it's knobbish too-clever naming.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Peter on January 26, 2021, 02:52:45 pm
Influenced by mobile text-speak, do you think?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on January 26, 2021, 02:57:25 pm
Nah, it's the physicists and their love of equations.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on January 26, 2021, 03:26:42 pm
See also the great "eye two see" vs "eye squared see" debate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%C2%B2C).  Obviously the correct answer is "eye eye see", but nobody writes it like that.  Obviously nobody's going to waste brain-cells on pronunciation when they could be arguing about the problemacity of 'master' and 'slave'...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 26, 2021, 03:49:39 pm
Learning words from books is great, as is learning words from speech, but in the case of a word like chasm, it seems odd that you'd reach the stage where you were talking on the news (or whatever it was) without ever having pronounced the word in public or heard others use it aloud.

Vaguely related, there's an article in today's Independent Mispronouncing people's names is a form of racism. (https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/yewande-biala-love-island-lucie-donlan-b1792717.html) The author's name is Yewande Biala. I know how I'd pronounce that but I've no idea how she does; surely names are an area where you have to accept that people don't know how to say your name and either you're going to correct them or they're going to ask, or you're going to accept their wild attempts?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on January 26, 2021, 03:55:09 pm
Learning words from books is great, as is learning words from speech, but in the case of a word like chasm, it seems odd that you'd reach the stage where you were talking on the news (or whatever it was) without ever having pronounced the word in public or heard others use it aloud.

You can fail to make the connection and go quite a long way with the two forms existing as completely separate words in your vocabulary, especially if you're wary of writing the spoken form because you're not sure how to spell it.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 26, 2021, 04:00:34 pm
I'm not sure I understand that, except in the case of words two distinct meanings.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Kim on January 26, 2021, 04:18:18 pm
I'm not sure I understand that, except in the case of words two distinct meanings.

You might come to understand that a chasm (in the Channel 4 News sense) is a big difference in something, while a kasm is a rock formation.  Deaf people are prone having overly specific definitions of words, and it's certainly something barakta's been known to do.  Overly specific (but correct) use of words doesn't usually result in the sort of semantic errors that people will question, outside of very formal contexts.  And if you're used to not understanding things, you might not question someone else's seemingly unusual use of a word...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 26, 2021, 05:39:28 pm
Possible, but only if you'd never heard 'kasm' used in the 'big difference' meaning, which seems unlikely.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on January 26, 2021, 06:17:11 pm
I think sometimes that it's easy to fall back on a phonetic pronunciation as that's the intuitive pronunciation – the hard k requires effort. This is more so the case when speaking in public, where there's some pressure. I know I've popped out words that are clearly wrong and I know they're wrong and I knew they were wrong when I said them.

I won't bother with the clickbait story about mispronouncing names being a form of racism. You have no idea how often my name is pronounced wrong.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: barakta on January 26, 2021, 10:54:12 pm
I think mispronunciation of names as a form of racism isn't as simple as "oh noes my name was said wrong", that does indeed happen to many people quite frequently. Whether it's a weird stressing in the name, mangling the name entirely or whatever.

The racist variant tends to be more subtle and manifests as people refusing to even try and pronounce a name they're a bit scared of that turns out to be entirely phonetic, not making an effort to pronounce correctly when told how, or just assigning the 'foreignly named' person some other name that isn't theirs overly or 'just by accident every time'.

Last week in a big meeting with Boss4, it was notable that she called upon everyone who was giving contributions by name and very obviously avoided using the name of a Boss1 level colleague whose name is Indian (and pronounced EXACTLY as it is written). This is apparently a thing Boss4 does despite having been introduced to Indian named colleague several times. It was blatant enough that I noticed it, when at my workplace there's quite a lot of BME staff, some of whom have "foreign looking" names. Most people just have a go at a pronunciation and make an effort to correct themselves if the named person says it differently.

There's no excuse for not trying in my view cos you can now google "pronounce $NAME" and you'll find videos online with likely pronunciations. Sometimes there's two competing ones, and I have generally found that at introductions if person doesn't say their name, I can ask "Can I check I'm saying your name right, I have found X and Y variants, I'd like to get yours correct". It's a small thing, but seems like basic respect to me. Sometimes I've had students tell me the story of their name and how that relates to a family language - a little glimpse of life stories which are very different to my own.

Oh and for words. Google can now do word pronunciations. "Define: WORD" and click on the speaker, you can slow it down. It's in en-GB now, when it used to be en-US only. I also did a blogpost once on which dictionaries had en-GB human read pronunciations as difficulty with phonemes and sounds is common to dyslexic, deaf and some other people with certain impairments.

By deaf standards I pronounce words pretty well, cos I hear pretty well, but I can reliably tell you if a signer is deaf or hearing partly by their lip pattern cos it often matches a deaf person's guess on how a word is shaped and not how it is shaped when pronounced 'correctly'. An example is "know" many deaf people pronounce it as 'k'now' or they may be aware the k is silent, but pronounce it 'now' rather than like 'no'.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 26, 2021, 11:48:28 pm
Most people just have a go at a pronunciation and make an effort to correct themselves if the named person says it differently.
I think that's all you can do really and all you can expect on first meeting. Obviously if you know in advance you're going to be meeting someone with a particular name, you can do some research, which might, again, be asking them in an email or similar.

I'm curious about your Boss 1 colleague's Indian name though. IME very few Indian names are pronounced exactly as written from an English reading. The 'th' sound for instance doesn't quite exist in English. Depends on language though...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on January 27, 2021, 09:34:24 am
I don't think normal people go around trying to mispronounce peoples' names, but mistakes are easy to make, and yes, some names are simply difficult to pronounce since not all sounds are universal. I work with an Indian team and even they mostly shorten their names for convenience, the same way the Chinese often grab a Western name or just use their initials. Calling everything racism is tedious and demeaning for actual racism.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: barakta on January 27, 2021, 01:07:30 pm
I think a person not affected by an issue deciding what is and is not the-issue is a bit dubious to be honest. Micro aggressions are precisely problematic exactly because other people want to say "calling them an ism diminishes the real ism" or otherwise diminish their impact. When actually it's their frequent occurrence which is half of their impact.

While it is common for people with "funny forrin names" to pick an anglo name, not everyone is doing that entirely by choice, given the amount of pressure to "fit in" "not make trouble or be difficult". And that fits in with wider 'colonisation' where "undesirable" minority ethnic groups would often be forcibly renamed to something 'deemed desirable'. So it's not as simple as free choice for everyone.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on January 27, 2021, 01:13:52 pm
That's just weird subjective post-modernism. I've decided I'm offended, so that's offensive, where's my newspaper column. Sorry, I don't buy it. We all make accommodations.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 28, 2021, 10:31:11 am
By deaf standards I pronounce words pretty well, cos I hear pretty well, but I can reliably tell you if a signer is deaf or hearing partly by their lip pattern cos it often matches a deaf person's guess on how a word is shaped and not how it is shaped when pronounced 'correctly'. An example is "know" many deaf people pronounce it as 'k'now' or they may be aware the k is silent, but pronounce it 'now' rather than like 'no'.
I actually know someone whose surname begins Kn and somewhat counterintuitively, both letters are pronounced separately. I think it might be of Scandinavian origin. Most of his relatives live in Kentucky – it would be interesting to know if they pronounce it the same way he does.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on January 28, 2021, 03:54:03 pm
I was just thinking about Alfred Knoller...
An erstwhile schoolmate posted on Facebook today he'd just celebrated his 70th wedding anniversary.
This man ran a boutique very popular with us as schoolgirls and still lives locally.

I saw an interview on Auntie with someone named Jamie, pronounced 'jammy' and wondered how many might call her jaymee...
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 28, 2021, 04:06:11 pm
I saw an interview on Auntie with someone named Jamie, pronounced 'jammy' and wondered how many might call her jaymee...
I'd imagine almost everyone who doesn't already know her. I think if it were me, I might be tempted to change the spelling of my name.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on January 28, 2021, 06:28:55 pm
By deaf standards I pronounce words pretty well, cos I hear pretty well, but I can reliably tell you if a signer is deaf or hearing partly by their lip pattern cos it often matches a deaf person's guess on how a word is shaped and not how it is shaped when pronounced 'correctly'. An example is "know" many deaf people pronounce it as 'k'now' or they may be aware the k is silent, but pronounce it 'now' rather than like 'no'.
I actually know someone whose surname begins Kn and somewhat counterintuitively, both letters are pronounced separately. I think it might be of Scandinavian origin. Most of his relatives live in Kentucky – it would be interesting to know if they pronounce it the same way he does.

Knetucky?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: bairn again on January 29, 2021, 01:53:57 pm
Increasingly I hear "fith" and "sicth" rather than "fifth" and "sixth".  Weird more than cringeworthy.   
 
I had a lengthy discussion with colleagues this morning over the word "longevity".  It crops up quite a bit in my professional life and I appear to be in small minority (of 1) who says "long-evity" rather than "long-jevity".  Perhaps  a product of having worked for a power company where pronouncing Longannet Power station as "long-gannet" was a cardinal sin.     

Our discussion turned to the pronunctiation of the word "lingerie" and my mind went elswhere..........   :o
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Tim Hall on January 29, 2021, 02:05:15 pm
Where's the line between "regional accent" and "lazy speech"?

There's a continuity announcer on Her Majesty's BBC TV who says "vvv" instread of "th". Like a steeering wheel in my trousers, it's driving me nuts.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on January 29, 2021, 03:00:51 pm
Long gannet power is what makes AUKs run and run.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pickled Onion on January 29, 2021, 07:46:21 pm
There was an Australian on the radio the other day who pronounced influencers to rhyme with influenza. Not sure if that's a regional thing.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Auntie Helen on January 29, 2021, 07:49:40 pm
My partner‘s daughter pronounced it the same - but she‘s German.

The foster son of my landlord and landlady, an Afghan refugee who has lived here 4 years, pronounced Hollister like Polyester! Hollie-ester!
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on February 16, 2021, 04:36:44 pm
Newsreader on 6music just rendered Tanzania as tan-zanier (like, more zany), which is a pronunciation I've not heard since the 80s.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on February 16, 2021, 06:15:39 pm
That's a pronunciation I've only heard on, IIRC, Grange Hill (or something similar – definitely 1980s TV), where it was clearly intended to mark out the (ignorant posh private school) baddies at some junior UN-type thing.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on February 16, 2021, 07:29:28 pm
The locals seem to pronounce it both ways, though mostly Tan-ZAY-knee-uh amongst younger people (in my experience). It's a portmanteau anyway (Tanganyika and Zanzibar).

In other matters, Ken-Ya and not Keen-Ya.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on February 16, 2021, 09:11:00 pm
Interesting that the locals say it that way. That is how I was taught to say it back in the late 70s/early 80s, whenever it was, but I’ve not heard that pronunciation for many years. Really took me by surprise.

(Wouldn’t say it made me cringe but we don’t have a ‘pronunciation that surprises you’ thread)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on February 16, 2021, 09:20:24 pm
Hmm, I've only been there once, but I certainly heard it both ways and I'd say from a limited sample size, the 'zanier' pronunciation was mostly (exclusively) older people. Google seems to agree with me that it's fallen out of fashion but isn't per se incorrect. I guess when the name was invented nobody did a handy pronunciation guide.

Arkansas, on the other hand, had quite the time deciding on their preference.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on February 16, 2021, 09:22:11 pm
(Wouldn’t say it made me cringe but we don’t have a ‘pronunciation that surprises you’ thread)
Just as with the grammar thread, at least half isn't really cringe.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on February 16, 2021, 11:01:45 pm
Wasn’t the Arkansas/Kansas business something to do with the Louisiana Purchase?  If I can’t blame Thatcher then Napoléon will make a reasonable substitute.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on February 17, 2021, 09:43:28 am
Sort of, it's an attempt at Frenchification (original Arcansas, a French transliteration of the Algonquian term for the Quapaw peoples of the area) by dropping the terminal s. There was a long-running tussle over the two pronunciations that resulting the State passing a resolution that would thereafter be officially pronounced -saw and not -sas.

The possessive is a bit prickly, Arkansas' versus Arkansas's. Apparently, the State legislature prefers the latter.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: citoyen on February 17, 2021, 09:56:14 am
I vaguely recall reading that before they passed that resolution, they used to have one senator for ar-kansas and one for arkan-saw, to keep both sides happy. Or something like that.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: ian on February 17, 2021, 10:00:57 am
There were two senators with alternate resolutions. I had to google the full story. I'm liking that they once called themselves Arkansawyers and more so that there was an Eclectic Society of Little Rock.

Quote from: the internet says
The region was organized as the Territory of Arkansaw on July 4, 1819, but the territory was admitted to the United States as the state of Arkansas on June 15, 1836. The name was historically pronounced /ˈɑːrkənsɔː/, /ɑːrˈkænzəs/, and several other variants. The residents of Arkansas have called themselves either "Arkansans" or "Arkansawyers". In 1881, the Arkansas General Assembly passed the following concurrent resolution, now Arkansas Code 1 April 105:[13]

Whereas, confusion of practice has arisen in the pronunciation of the name of our state and it is deemed important that the true pronunciation should be determined for use in oral official proceedings.

And, whereas, the matter has been thoroughly investigated by the State Historical Society and the Eclectic Society of Little Rock, which have agreed upon the correct pronunciation as derived from history, and the early usage of the American immigrants.

Be it therefore resolved by both houses of the General Assembly, that the only true pronunciation of the name of the state, in the opinion of this body, is that received by the French from the native Indians and committed to writing in the French word representing the sound. It should be pronounced in three (3) syllables, with the final "s" silent, the "a" in each syllable with the Italian sound, and the accent on the first and last syllables. The pronunciation with the accent on the second syllable with the sound of "a" in "man" and the sounding of the terminal "s" is discouraged by Arkansans.

Despite this, the state's name is still frequently mispronounced, especially by non-Americans; in fact, it is spelled in Cyrillic with the ar-KAN-zəs pronunciation.

Citizens of the state of Kansas often pronounce the Arkansas River as /ɑːrˈkænzəs/, in a manner similar to the common pronunciation of the name of their state.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on February 17, 2021, 11:02:30 am
Arkansawyer sounds like someone engaged to prepare timber for Noah.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Moleman76 on February 20, 2021, 06:49:07 am
some of us over here cringe whenever Arkansaw or Arkansass is heard
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on February 20, 2021, 12:28:23 pm
I see the latest of Brenda's great-grandchildren is to be named August.

Will this be pronounced like the eighth month, AwGUST or Ow-goost?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Mr Larrington on February 20, 2021, 01:32:58 pm
Well, the latter is the, ahem, German pronunciation :demon:
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on February 20, 2021, 01:35:52 pm
Er ist nach Albert heißt, nicht wahr?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: T42 on February 20, 2021, 01:40:45 pm
Wie bitte?
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on February 20, 2021, 01:55:40 pm
August Philip Hawke Brooksbank.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56137887 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56137887)
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on February 20, 2021, 02:59:21 pm
I lose track of these royals (that's a lie, the truth is I do not try to keep up) but this Princess Eugenie bears a facial resemblance to That Emily Chappell. Bet she doesn't write such good books though.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: hellymedic on February 20, 2021, 03:20:05 pm
I think she's written kids' books.

She has been fitted with an internal titanium back straightener.
Title: Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
Post by: Pingu on February 20, 2021, 03:42:38 pm
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=67699.0