Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Freewheeling => The Dark Side => Topic started by: mtrike on August 31, 2008, 06:06:27 pm

Title: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: mtrike on August 31, 2008, 06:06:27 pm
The upright trike fleet has just been increased with its first two wheel drive - a Longstaff Yeti.   Something I have wanted since I saw the first one in a cycle mag nearly 20 years ago.  Having pulled it apart to service it today I found the differential has a grease nipple in it.  The simple question is this for grease or oil?

An off road trike has added a whole new definition of uncontrollability to my triking experience but at least the crashes are at a slower speed! ;D It's a hoot.

Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: cycleman on August 31, 2008, 08:31:39 pm
grease nipples are for grease :)
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: mtrike on August 31, 2008, 08:50:40 pm
grease nipples are for grease :)
Not always, put grease in the grease nipple for Triumph trunnions and eventually they fail - usually catastrophically - that's why I asked ???
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: Pedaldog on August 31, 2008, 09:05:08 pm
My cycling life got started properly in 1997 when I got a longstaff conversion on an old Peugot frame.
Still have it now and use it more then anything else.
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: Ian H on August 31, 2008, 09:18:28 pm
You could ask them. (http://www.longstaffcycles.co.uk/)

I once had an Austin A50 of 1950s vintage which demanded SAE140 oil pumped into the kingpins with a grease gun.
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: Treewheeler on September 01, 2008, 09:06:31 pm
Its not for grease, its for oil and not too much either as the system is piss poor sealed and it will all fall out rather like any engine made by British Leyland.
 Better off changing the system for a trykit (google trykit)
 Off road trike... most have trouble riding them on the road!
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: Zoidburg on September 02, 2008, 06:30:12 pm
New Longstaff diffs are much different these days

Ask Gordy, his runs some arangement with a split axle connected by two freehub bodys and a sleeve

Tis weird but it works
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: Sigurd Mudtracker on September 02, 2008, 09:25:09 pm
Pictures please!

I do remember seeing a picture of the Yeti - in Bicycle Magazine or Bicycle Action, I can't recall which.

Certainly my Ken Rogers was definitely an "off-road" trike to begin with - off the road and into the nearest thorny hedge the minute my mind wandered.
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: Treewheeler on September 02, 2008, 10:33:35 pm
New Longstaff diffs are much different these days

Ask Gordy, his runs some arangement with a split axle connected by two freehub bodys and a sleeve

Tis weird but it works
Yes, The Yeti will have the old twin freewheel (Maillard/Sachs) arrangment 'probally'.
 Newer Longstaffs have a version of the Trykit (made for Longstaff by Trykit)
I saved a kilo my changing to hollow axles, new drive and decent cassette.
Cost me... :-X but it was worth it. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: gordon taylor on September 02, 2008, 10:37:11 pm
I have a 2007 Longstaff double freewheel thingy at the back of my trike. It doesn't have a grease nipple, so I can't help with suggestions as to what to put in it, sorry.
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: resus1uk on September 03, 2008, 08:35:24 am
My Longstaff Cyclon "MTB" trike doesn't have grease nipples either.

I tried mountain triking but the one wheel drive didn't help & I got stuck frequently .

I've put Nimbus slicks on which are better for our local rural roads. I still have hairy moments cornering fast, but have kept out of hedges for nearly a year now.

I still want to extract the MTB frame & use the conversion  on a lighter frame without front suspension. LBS says I should take it to a specialist, but no-one replies. How do I get a wheel off without losing the vital bits from the hub? Do I just unscrew the allen headed bolt in the middle of the hub, what keeps the wheels on? Secrets of the black art of tricycling.....
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: Treewheeler on September 03, 2008, 10:28:47 am
Look, the best person to help you is dead (George Longstaff)
The other, Tatanab of this parish is away in Seattle for a couple of weeks.
Trykit can help you and he is are located near Thame, Oxford.
 Google the Tricycle association and you will find a link to his site.
        Best of luck!
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: Zipperhead on September 03, 2008, 01:05:09 pm
I still want to extract the MTB frame & use the conversion  on a lighter frame without front suspension. LBS says I should take it to a specialist, but no-one replies. How do I get a wheel off without losing the vital bits from the hub? Do I just unscrew the allen headed bolt in the middle of the hub, what keeps the wheels on? Secrets of the black art of tricycling.....

On my Longstaff, if you take out the allen bolt in the middle (same size as a crank bolt) then the hub comes off, leaving the axle in place.

This is a picture of the trykit hollow axle (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/trykit/Gallery/images/10%20Hollow%20Axles%20aprox%209%20oz%20lighter%20than%20standard.jpg) but the left hand end is where the hubs fit (same as a Longstaff)
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: resus1uk on September 03, 2008, 07:58:25 pm
Thanks for revealing the mystery, I didn't want to get the wheel off & not get it back on.

Trykit is too down south for now, but a two wheel dirive or Shimano cassette might be a useful upgrade next year.

During the winter I can get on with swapping the frame. Amazing how these odd machines grow on you.
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: Zipperhead on September 04, 2008, 10:23:03 am
Thanks for revealing the mystery, I didn't want to get the wheel off & not get it back on.

It's always nicer to see something in bits before you take your own apart!
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: Jacomus on September 05, 2008, 04:37:13 pm
My Longstaff Cyclon "MTB" trike doesn't have grease nipples either.

I tried mountain triking but the one wheel drive didn't help & I got stuck frequently .

I've put Nimbus slicks on which are better for our local rural roads. I still have hairy moments cornering fast, but have kept out of hedges for nearly a year now.

I still want to extract the MTB frame & use the conversion  on a lighter frame without front suspension. LBS says I should take it to a specialist, but no-one replies. How do I get a wheel off without losing the vital bits from the hub? Do I just unscrew the allen headed bolt in the middle of the hub, what keeps the wheels on? Secrets of the black art of tricycling.....

Try Paul at Pauls Custom Cycles - he will do anything to any bike, the more wacky the better.

I've seen his work, and it is very impressive. The tacky website does it no justice at all. He is happy to talk bikes, and has devoted me attention in the full knowledge it could be a good 6 months before I bring any work his way.

www.paulscustomcycles.co.uk (http://www.paulscustomcycles.co.uk/)
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: mtrike on September 06, 2008, 01:47:32 pm
Thanks Tuggo I had a feeling it would be.  My road Longstaff is one wheel drive until I can save up for a Tri kit conversion.  The touring trike is also one wheel drive but the right wheel is driven and has a frankly odd system.   Out of interest has anyone else heard of a Crosby trike as I can't find any reference.

As for riding a trike off road well remember your first trike ride multiply the difficulty by 10 and you will have some idea.  I got stuck on a single track last night on a slope, I was leaning out too far to pedal so slowly came to a halt but any attempt to straighten up would have toppled me down the slope.  Still on a trike you can sit quietly and work out calmly what to do.  I toppled.

And yes I think the article was in Bicycle magazine and that Yeti was fluorescent orange?  Mine is fluorescent pink  and I seem to be called Barbie.  Does anyone know where I can get a T mobile skinsuit?  Hope you are not eating whilst reading this  :sick:
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: mtrike on September 06, 2008, 02:08:29 pm
My Longstaff Cyclon "MTB" trike doesn't have grease nipples either.

I still want to extract the MTB frame & use the conversion  on a lighter frame without front suspension. LBS says I should take it to a specialist, but no-one replies. How do I get a wheel off without losing the vital bits from the hub? Do I just unscrew the allen headed bolt in the middle of the hub, what keeps the wheels on? Secrets of the black art of tricycling.....
On my one wheel drive you undo the outer allen bolts on the hubs and the wheels pull of.  Mine has a free wheel and this is removed with its carrier with the undoing of similar allen bolt.  There is also a normal bolt on the inner end of the undriven axle.  The axles then seem to pull out after releasing the circlips revealed on removing the wheels but I haven't needed to do this yet..

Funnily there is very little difference between riding the Yeti and road longstaffs on the road both are 531 but the Yeti complete with rack has to be 5 kilos heavier but feels more spritely even on its chewing gum tyres.

The main difference is that when failing to corner off road it is at 10mph and you land on soft ground my latest failure to corner on the road was downhill on a negative camber bend causing me to enter a copse at 30mph followed by a lot of pain -trees are hard.
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: Sigurd Mudtracker on September 07, 2008, 09:18:21 pm
My recollection was that the Bicycle review trike was searing pink - but my memory is unreliable.  I did go trawling through a few remaining back issues (selectively retained) and though I didn't find the Yeti review, I did find (circa 1983) an article asking "MTBs - will they last?"
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: Sigurd Mudtracker on September 07, 2008, 09:29:53 pm
I'd also add (having given myself eyestrain squinting at your avatar) that my Ken Rogers came with rather high flat bars and bar ends.  It was much easier to ride once I'd put drops on it.
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: mtrike on September 08, 2008, 11:24:45 pm
Flat bars seem easier to me!  Maybe I have the star bike of Bicycle mag - stop squinting and be amazed


(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w49/mbike_photos/DSC00074-1.jpg)

There are 5 more bikes in the garage too!
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: nicknack on September 09, 2008, 12:09:19 am
 :o
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: Sigurd Mudtracker on September 09, 2008, 08:07:52 am
 :thumbsup:

I will show this picture to Mrs Mudtracker as proof that you can never have enough trikes.  :D
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: chris n on September 09, 2008, 08:40:26 am
That MTB trike (or one very similar; it was definitely pink and I'm pretty sure it was a Longstaff.  So it might have been a completely different one. ;D) was tested by John Stevenson in MBUK too.  Very nice.
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: mtrike on September 09, 2008, 12:24:30 pm
Mrs Mtrike has now blocked my access to e-bay unless for sales and she will not allow an extension to the garage just to let in more bikes and trikes!
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: Sigurd Mudtracker on September 09, 2008, 07:17:12 pm
I can always offer garage space under favourable terms....   ;D
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: Treewheeler on September 10, 2008, 05:45:43 pm
I can confirm that this is very probally the one featured in the article.
I had a 'work experience' during this period at Longstaffs.
It was built as a joke really ::-), for the publicity and if you contact Bev Longstaff she may remember the details and tell you how many were 'not built'...
 I see you have a fleet of barrows there so I expect to see you in the list of super randoneurs and a finisher of the 2011 P-B-P. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: mtrike on September 10, 2008, 08:39:57 pm
I'm awaiting a reply from Longstaffs re nos built.  It may have been a joke but it is a joy on muddy bridle paths and goes where my cross bike can't.  Uphill though is a problem it must weigh 50lb!  At the moment it is temporarily retired as there is clicking indicating a square bearing in either pedal or bottom bracket both being rather firmly attached they will have to wait for the weekend.  My audax career is also temporarily retired due to a clicking in my lower portions but I've managed a couple of 200s this year on the road trike and a 100 this weekend - come and say hello at Oundle places still available!  But I keep finding myself drawn to the LEL - trike or bike ??
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: tatanab on September 11, 2008, 06:26:18 pm
If Resus1UK or anybody else with any interest, would like to send me an email address  can send you a pdf of instructions and exploded diagram for a Longstaff axle.  It is something he put together a few years ago now.

Pedant - it is not a differential, it is a two wheel drive.  Quite different animals.

I only ever put a little oil in the old Sachs/Maillard TWD.  Sprockets for these are becoming hard to find, so like Tuggo I recommend a change to Trykit.
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: Longstaff on September 30, 2008, 02:11:52 pm
Dear Forum,

I have read all your comments with great interest, and feel that some trikies out there are a wee bit misinformed on the products and services we offer.

Many years ago George designed our new cassette unit to replace the Sachs double freewheel unit that we were using at the time.
Trykit do have a copy of this unit that fits Longstaff trikes.
These units are still made here in our workshops, and are available to be supplied and /or fitted to Longstaff trikes.

Check out British Paralympic rider Dave Stone recently winning gold on a Longstaff trike with the said lightweight unit.

Dare I disagree with the comment 'the only person who can answer these questions is dead'.
I am alive and kicking and very willing to answer any queries/questions concerning any of our machines.

Having worked with George from day 1, I  am full of lots of useful (and sometimes useless) information concerning trikes, tandems, bikes -  and not just Longstaff! 

Hope to hear from you soon
Bev Longstaff
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: Zipperhead on September 30, 2008, 02:36:13 pm
Excellent, welcome, it's nice to have you here.

I've got a question if I may.

My Longstaff trike (which I bought S/H about a year ago) has a cantilever brake and a single pivot brake, both mounted on the front of the forks.  I've put the longest pads onto both that will fit (had to file one pair down slightly) but I could still do with a bit more braking power.

How easy would it be to replace the single pivot with a dual pivot? Would I use a standard dual pivot, or do I need one with a modified mounting?

Thanks in advance.

Graham
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: mtrike on September 30, 2008, 06:47:16 pm
Bev
Same question - how many yetis were made?  I have the build note for mine so am reasonably confident that it wasn't the one in the article so there must be others.  When I have saved a bit the road trike gets the double free wheel.
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: alan on March 12, 2009, 10:27:02 am
I shall be going into Longsaff's later for some advice relating to headset on my tourer.
Should I take my wallet with me or not? :-\
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: mtrike on March 12, 2009, 10:37:08 am
I shall be going into Longsaff's later for some advice relating to headset on my tourer.
Should I take my wallet with me or not? :-\


A credit card with a high limit might be more appropriate :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: clarion on March 12, 2009, 10:38:05 am
Dangerous!
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: alan on March 12, 2009, 10:46:44 am
I shall be going into Longsaff's later for some advice relating to headset on my tourer.
Should I take my wallet with me or not? :-\


A credit card with a high limit might be more appropriate :thumbsup:



That's the problem..I have such things
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: alan on March 12, 2009, 10:47:52 am
Dangerous!

Indeed,& I don't do "resist temptation" too well :-[
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: clarion on March 12, 2009, 10:49:08 am
Do you need a minder to stop you reaching for the plastic?
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: alan on March 12, 2009, 10:51:52 am
Do you need a minder to stop you reaching for the plastic?

I have one known as  the Boss Marj but she will not be with me.
I could try "gettheebehindmesatan" & be an  O:-).
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: diapsaon0 on March 12, 2009, 10:53:02 am
"Lead us not into temptation, and deliver us from bankruptcy........"

N
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: alan on March 12, 2009, 10:54:11 am
"gettheebehindmesatan"

Here's a thought.
That could be a reason to get a tandem of some sort :demon:
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: clarion on March 12, 2009, 10:56:31 am
Marj may not appreciate the comparison...
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: alan on March 12, 2009, 01:45:51 pm
saved by the "early-closing-on-Thursday" policy :-\
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: Butterfly on March 12, 2009, 02:15:05 pm
Oooohhhh :'(
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: Zoidburg on March 12, 2009, 02:50:56 pm
I can come round and look at it if you like, I have been known to wield the odd allen key in anger.

Thats if you realy want me know where you live that is...
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: alan on March 12, 2009, 08:18:56 pm
That's a kind offer.
I don't know that I need someone to do the work.What I want in the first instance is some advice so that I can then decide to destroy do it myself or otherwise.
I  usually enjoy doing the fettling but don't want to make a dog's breakfast of it & then need the lbs rescue service :-[.
Perhaps I could come over to your Stafford gig when you are there.I need the miles in prep. for JoGLe.
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: drossall on March 13, 2009, 12:12:02 am
How easy would it be to replace the single pivot with a dual pivot? Would I use a standard dual pivot, or do I need one with a modified mounting?

I asked the same question (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=9499.15#subject_171836) regarding my Rogers, and tatanab was kind enough to send some information. The gist of it is that the most common set-up is a rear brake screwed into the post, so you should be able to swap in a rear dual pivot. I've dropped him a line to ask him to provide more detail.
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: mtrike on March 13, 2009, 12:50:08 pm
Excellent, welcome, it's nice to have you here.

I've got a question if I may.

My Longstaff trike (which I bought S/H about a year ago) has a cantilever brake and a single pivot brake, both mounted on the front of the forks.  I've put the longest pads onto both that will fit (had to file one pair down slightly) but I could still do with a bit more braking power.

How easy would it be to replace the single pivot with a dual pivot? Would I use a standard dual pivot, or do I need one with a modified mounting?

Thanks in advance.

Graham

I replaced mine as a straight replacement with a front ultegra dp wih no problems.   It might be worth measuring just to see if you need a deep drop
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: clarion on March 13, 2009, 02:18:44 pm
Slowly again please, for the hard of understanding:

I know we're talking about trikes here, but I have a couple of bikes that could benefit of the reduced drag of a DP over a SP.  Can they just be replaced?  i thought they needed drilling for the allen bolts (not possible in one of my cases).

Can i do a straight swap?
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: tatanab on March 13, 2009, 04:55:58 pm
I replaced mine as a straight replacement with a front ultegra dp wih no problems.   It might be worth measuring just to see if you need a deep drop
I think you are writing about something quite different here.  Looking at the picture of your trikes, the road Longstaff has a front brake fitted through the fork crown just as is normal on a bike, then has a cantilever behind the fork crown.  Hence you can do what you like with single or dual pivot brakes.

As I read it, Zipperhead has the circumstance where the cantilever is mounted in front of the forks with a single pivot brake on  a stalk.  In the same place you have a centrepull on your Rogers.

Now- it is easy to replace the centrepull on the stalk by a DP.  It is not easy (in fact I don't know how to)  replace the SP on the stalk with a DP.  The reason for this is that George integrated the central bolt of the brake into the stalk, hence any brake must fit that and be secured by a nut at the end.

However, you can fit probably any SP brake to the stalk.  Mine started out with a 1980 Campag brake and  has now got a very much newer Shimano SP.  With decent cables and routing etc this is a powerful brake.

So, Zipperhead - I don't know.
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: chris n on March 13, 2009, 05:38:24 pm
Can i do a straight swap?

Byercycles have both Allen key and nutted DP calipers in a variety of drops.  Good prices too.  clicky, scroll down a bit (http://www.byercycles.co.uk/02R0908.html)
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: mtrike on March 13, 2009, 06:03:15 pm
Whoops I misread, my road Longstaff has rear cantis and is normally drilled for the ront mounted caliper brake.  But I have just nipped out to look at the yeti which has front cantis and the extension bar which in this bike acts as a straddle wire stop (if the cable breaks).  However this is held on by an allen bolt and appears to be the same as a caliper brake bolt - I didn't have a caliper to check.  If yours is the same the extension bar unscrews (mine did just now) and the caliper should just mount in it's place.  What you will need to do is put in a light bracket or similar to act as a straddle wire stop.

All I can suggest is that you have a tinker and see if you can remove the extension and get hold of a caliper and trial fit it.
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: drossall on March 13, 2009, 08:30:49 pm
To support tatanab's description, here are some photos he provided (PDF) (http://www.rossall.plus.com/tatanab-brake.pdf). You can see the different mountings on his two Longstaff trikes in the first photo (blue with front&back, red with both front using a post-mount). Then there are some close-ups of a Rogers* with a post-mount similar to mine.

* N+1 applied to trikes? Don't think I could get away with that ;D
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: Sigurd Mudtracker on March 13, 2009, 09:26:03 pm
Out of interest, is that post mount brazed on or bolted on?  I have a terribly inefficient rear axle drum brake on my Rogers that provides at best mild retardation on a gentle slope but little more, despite fiddling about with cable adjustement, travel, cleaning, etc.  I'd quite like to switch to two front brakes and perhaps save a little bit of weight.  If the front canti cable snapped on a steep downhill I shudder to think of the consequences...
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: drossall on March 13, 2009, 09:51:28 pm
The post mount on my Rogers is brazed on - can't speak for tatanab's in the pictures. Mine also has a foot-actuated drum brake, which is about as effective as yours, but that is in addition to the two caliper ones in an arrangement like that on the black Rogers in the PDF. This may have something to do with the previous owner living in North Yorkshire...
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: tatanab on March 13, 2009, 10:06:19 pm
Out of interest, is that post mount brazed on or bolted on?
Brazed in every case.  I imagine the reason it is on an allen key for the Yeti is because it is there as a straddle wire stop in the event of failure.

To fit two front brakes there are a number of educated bodges you can do.  One is to mount two sidepull brakes on a long through bolt.  I believe that Chris Hewitt cycles has a specially made bolt for this (telephone 01582 763622).  It might even be able to support a DP as the forward of the two brakes - I don't know.  The other bodge was to fit a brake in front of the forks and one behind, again with a long through bolt.  This would be easy enough with a DP in front of the blades and SP behind, although steering lock may be limited unless the rear brake cable entered from underneath.  I know that there is now a clip on brake to fit the forks of a track bike with no drilling, so that might work - I cannot recall the brand or model.

Plenty of options to play with.
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: stevew on March 30, 2009, 07:38:35 pm
Clip on brake here
Brakes (http://www.charliethebikemonger.com/userimages/procart16.htm)
Scroll down to bottom of page
Other useful brakes like the centre pull ones.
Title: Re: Longstaff Servicing
Post by: mtrike on February 22, 2019, 09:11:59 pm
If Resus1UK or anybody else with any interest, would like to send me an email address  can send you a pdf of instructions and exploded diagram for a Longstaff axle.  It is something he put together a few years ago now.

Pedant - it is not a differential, it is a two wheel drive.  Quite different animals.

I only ever put a little oil in the old Sachs/Maillard TWD.  Sprockets for these are becoming hard to find, so like Tuggo I recommend a change to Trykit.

Eleven years on the Yeti still lives as a one of a kind.  Helped by a full board of Sachs sprockets and should the need arise a spare TWD unit.